Progressive Rock: History & Discussion

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Alright, inspired by the necromanced Metal thread, I've decided to create my own type of thread base on Progressive Rock, or Prog, or pretentious drivel, whichever suits you best.

A basic history shamelessly taken from Wiki

Progressive rock, sometimes shortened to prog rock, is a subgenre of rock music which arose in the mid-to-late 1960s, reached the peak of its popularity in the 1970s and has continued as a form of popular music to this day. It is commonly associated with symphonic rock and art rock, although the term "progressive" in today's usage often embraces a significantly wider spectrum of music than these styles, which were considered more "progressive" at the time that the term was developed.[1]
Progressive rock acts often combine rock formats with elements of classical music, or with styles such as jazz or jazz fusion. As well, they often reject specific genre norms and use uncommon musical structures and ideas. Progressive rock often uses a melodic or symphonic approach to songwriting.

However, as one begins to delve into the genre, like most other genres, it's not as easily classified as once thought. Progressive Rock is basically used as blanket term, like many other genres of music, Such as Metal, Rock, Hip Hop, Country and whatnot. The differences in Progressive Rock are sometimes very obvious, and other times they are not; sometimes they aren't classified by music at all, as rather a certain movement within Prog (See RIO). Taking many different styles and combining them is what started many of the Musicians associated with Prog, but later, the experimentation began to take more varied approaches. In it's early form, what we now call Progressive Rock (The artists themselves, now and then, refuse to call themselves Progressive Rock Artists, for the most part.) combined Music from Jazz, Classical, Rock and Blues. However, later, such as Hard Rock or Metal, Folk, Avantgarde leanings and even Country in some cases, creating a much more varied pallete of musical influences. Here are some of the Elistists Prog Genres:

Canterbury Scene

Spoiler:

Canterbury Scene

A fraternal collective of musicians clustered around the Kentish tourist town that is home to the Church of England's Archbishop, the Canterbury Scene provided the cradle for a half-dozen of the most freewheeling British bands of the post-psychedelic era. Though the direct musical similarities between Canterbury's major bands — the Soft Machine, Caravan, Gong, Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers, Hatfield & the North, Egg, National Health — aren't overwhelming, each featured a clever synthesis of jazz improvisation and rock rhythms with clever, intellectual songwriting tied to psychedelia. It's no wonder the Canterbury bands became so close, since many of its major figures began their musical careers in a beat group called the Wilde Flowers. Together from 1963 to 1969, the Wilde Flowers included most of the figures who later formed Canterbury's two best bands, the Soft Machine (Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers) and Caravan (Pye Hastings, David Sinclair, Richard Sinclair, Richard Coughlan). After both the Soft Machine and Caravan released their debut albums in 1968, they became popular in England's psychedelic underground. By the early '70s however, a series of fragmenting lineup changes and the subsequent formation of new bands soon multiplied the force of the Canterbury scene. Early Soft Machine member Daevid Allen formed Gong, and both Kevin Ayers and Robert Wyatt eventually left the Softs to begin their own solo careers. The musicians that led the new incarnation of the Soft Machine, including Elton Dean and Hugh Hopper, began pushing the band in the direction of instrumental jazz-rock. By the mid-'70s, many of the remaining Canterbury bands had progressed from psychedelic and prog-rock to embrace extended fusion jams with few lyrics. Many of Britain's better avant-garde or fusion musicians of the 1970s and '80s — including Fred Frith, Allan Holdsworth, and Peter Blegvad — also began their career playing in Canterbury bands.

Progressive Folk

Spoiler:

Prog Folk
In the wake of the 60’s, a Folk revival started on both sides of the Atlantic, and got quickly linked with a protest movement, not always, but often linked to more left-wing tendencies, which did not sit well with the authorities. BOB DYLAN, JOAN BAEZ, WOODY GUTHRIE, JOHN DENVER, BUFFY STE-MARIE, but also the FARINA couple Richard and Mimi for the US and SHIRLEY COLLINS and EWAN McCOLL (mentor of BERT JANSCH, JOHN RENBOURN ) for the UK and HUGUES AUFRAY in France. In Quebec, there was the “Chansoniers” phenomenon among which CLAUDE LEVEILLE and FELIX LECLERC were the most popular, waking up the sleepy “Belle Province” and stand up for itself from the English rule. The English part of Canada also brought up JONI MITCHELL, LEONARD COHEN (although he was from Montreal) and NEIL YOUNG.

As DYLAN turned electric with his Highway 61 Revisited album, much to the dislike of purists who yelled for treason, Folk Rock was born, opening the floodgates for younger artists to turn on the electricity. As DYLAN soon abandoned to style to create Country Rock with his next album, his British equivalent Scotsman DONOVAN stayed true to Folk Rock. In the US, THE BYRDS were the main promoters of the style by now, culminating with the superb “Eight Miles High” track with a lengthy (for the times) guitar solo of almost one minute. But countless other bands on the west coast, such as LOVE, JEFFERSON AIRPLANE (and later its spin-off HOT TUNA), GRATEFUL DEAD, QUICKSILVER MESSENGER SERVICE, PEARLS BEFORE SWINE, and TIM BUCKLEY all started in the folk rock realm. Even San Fran’s SANTANA with its Latino traditional music and, on the east coast, NY’s THE LOVING SPOONFUL had folk roots. Notwithstanding the immense popularity of SIMON & GARFUNKEL and their delicious harmonies, Folk Rock was appealing only to the rock public as the older generations turned their backs in folkies.

In the UK, following on their countrymen DONOVAN, many Scotsmen were very influent in exploring new grounds for folk rock: INCREDIBLE STRING BAND (led by Scots Palmer and Williamson) with their two highly influential albums “5000 Layers Or The Spirit Of The Onion” & “The Hangman’s Beautiful Daughter” and THE PENTANGLE (led by other Scots Renbourn, Jansch and McShee and their superb bassist Danny Thompson) and its incredible fusion of folk, blues and jazz style were very instrumental in developing the style to the same extent as FAIRPORT CONVENTION and THE STRAWBS who by that time were still more conventional US “west-coast folk rock”. The single artistes in folk rock became known as Folk Troubadours were also numerous and often presented a more progressive side of folk: AL STEWART, NICK DRAKE, ROY HARPER, TYRANOSAURUS REX (actually a duo of Steven Took and Marc Bolan) , JOHN MARTYN etc…

However, the real angular album that will lead to further change of Folk Rock is FAIRPORT CONVENTION’s “Liege & Lief” album, that proved to be highly influential for another generation of groups: this album concentrated into electrifying seminal English traditional folk and retained that quaint Englishness taste. It is interesting to see that both leaders of FAIRPORT quit the band after this success to go their respective way: Sandy Denny to a solo folk songwriting career and Ashley Hutchings to a very traditional folk rock. By this time, most connoisseur were talking of Acid Folk, Psych Folk, and Progressive Folk, all having limited differences and no particularly drawn-out limits or boundaries, but all relying on experimental or groundbreaking adventures and good musicianship but not necessarily of an acoustic nature.

Groups like THE THIRD EAR BAND and QUINTESSENCE relied on eastern Indian music influences and, sometimes, medieval tones. Other groups like the weird COMUS, THE TREES, SPYROGIRA, FOREST, the superb JAN DUKES DE GREY (all listed in the ProgArchives) but also TRADER HORNE, TUDOR LODGE, FOTHERINGAY, MAGNA CARTA, TIR NA NOG (all of whom could also be in the ProgArchives) were out to break new ground but with less commercial success as their predecessor. By 1972, all of the glorious precursors bands were selling fewer records and had problems renewing themselves and a newer generation of groups was relying in a more Celtic jigs or really traditional sounds. Such as HORSLIPS, DANDO SHAFT, STEELEYE SPAN, AMAZING BLONDEL, ALBION DANCE BAND and SPRIGUNS OF TOLGUS. Although JETHRO TULL had some definitive folk roots right from the start, their only albums that can be regarded as Prog Folk are 77’s Songs From The Woods and 78’s Heavy Horses. Ian Anderson (another Scots) was very keen in acoustical traditional songs. Some Folk Troubadours such as TIM BUCKLEY and JOHN MARTYN started turning records more and more axed towards fusing jazz and folk (a bit in what THE PENTANGLE were doing) , others became more and more electric and they started to be referred to as Singer Songwriters especially those with country rock influences.

There is also a very important medieval music influences dimension in some groups as the term Medieval Folk was also mentioned for a while but apparently dropped by musicologists. Among the UK groups are obviously GRYPHON, GENTLE GIANT and THIRD EAR BAND, in France: MALICORNE and RIPAILLE and in Scandinavia: ALGARNAS TRADGARD and FOLQUE.


Hugues Chantraine

Post continued in next page lol...

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Krautrock

Spoiler:

Krautrock
Krautrock refers to the legions of German bands of the early '70s that expanded the sonic possibilities of art and progressive rock. Instead of following in the direction of their British and American counterparts, who were moving toward jazz and classical-based compositions and concept albums, the German bands became more mechanical and electronic. Working with early synthesizers and splicing together seemingly unconnected reels of tape, bands like Faust, Can, and Neu created a droning, pulsating sound that owed more to the avant garde than to rock & roll. Although the bands didn't make much of an impact while they were active in the '70s, their music anticipated much post-punk of the early '80s, particularly industrial rock. Kraut rock also came into vogue in the '90s, when groups like Stereolab and Tortoise began incorporating the hypnotic rhythms and electronic experiments of the German art-rock bands into their own, vaguely avant-garde indie rock


Krautrock can also be considered as 70's "acid" rock from Germany. A majority of bands experiment long instrumental improvisations with an important use of psychedelic effects, weird electronic sounds.

Avant Prog (Or Basically Zappa)/RIO

Spoiler:

RIO/Avant-Prog
Rock-in-Opposition — Often abbreviated RIO, this form of progressive rock relies heavily on early 20th century avant-garde classical structures. Dominated by dissonant chords, odd time meters, polyrhythms, and abstract, sometimes politically-oriented vocals, this style is often dismissed even by die-hard progressive fans. Like the other more avant-garde styles such as Krautrock, it should be listened to, and not just heard. Musicianship is extremely high, yet appreciation is somewhat low. This form of prog is best appreciated in live concert settings as the interaction between musicians is quite astounding to watch.

Avant-Prog - Avant-Prog is short for avant-garde progressive rock. This style appeared in the late 1970s as the extension of two separate prog rock sub-styles: Rock in Opposition (RIO) and prog of the Canterbury scene. RIO is a term restricted to temporal limits; Canterbury prog to geographical limits. The late 1970s onward saw the development of an avant-prog scene often functioning in the margin of mainstream prog. A host of groups and artists mainly from the USA, but also from Europe and Japan, started to write mostly short instrumental pieces that focused on complexity and stripped down instrumentation, while avoiding the pomposity and stage props of the big prog acts

Zheul

Spoiler:

Zeuhl
Zeuhl is an adjective in Kobaïan, the language written by Christian Vander, drummer and founder of the French band Magma.

Pronunciation: zEU(h)l, while the EU are like a French E with a slight U, and the (h) is a semi-silent letter which is an integrated part of the EU, totaling in a "syllable and a half".

The word means celestial, although many times it is misunderstood as meaning "celestial music", since the members of Magma describe the genre of their music as Zeuhl. Zeuhl Wortz, though, means Music of the universal might.


The genre is a mixture of musical genres like Neoclassicism, Romanticism, Modernism and Fusion. Common elements: oppressive or discipline-conveying feel, marching themes, throbbing bass, an ethereal piano or Rhodes piano, and brass instruments.

I strayed away from generic Prog acts like Symphonic, Art Rock and Psychadelic, as they're all fairly well known, and I think these other genres are often not given the recognition for their creativity, ingenuity and uniqueness that they deserve. And acts like RIO and Canterbury scene really aren't musically different from other acts, and usually sound nothing alike; the same applies to RIO.

So thoughts? (After reading that behomoth wall of stolen text)

[Brand New]

I usually describe Progressive Rock as being Alternative.

But.....I guess if we're going to dive into Alternative I will settle with it. I'm not a huge fan, but there's been good bands like Pink Floyd, and Rush. I don't know if you would consider Led Progressive, but they're aight.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Not really, I think Prog has been around some time before the term alternative was coined. :/

It's just a shame that there are only a few recognized Prog acts, like Yes, Genesis, ELP, Rush, Pink Floyd, and King Crimson. There are so many other good bands out there it's amazing.

[DragonSlayer]

np: Koenjihyakkei

THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY FOR NOW!!

[Brand New]

Yeah, but the word "Alternative" is used so loosely now-a-days that people use to describe punk, indie, experimental gets annoying.

Pink Floyd I would rather consider experimental. Same thing goes for Radiohead.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yeah, it's really a blanket term. Post Rock is often considered Alternative, when it shows no relation whatsoever to other acts associated with it. xD

Pink Floyd were masters of the Psychadelic/Space Rock field.

DS: Well, we're talking about the instigators of Prog, or the classic artists. Koenjihyakkei are amazing, but they owe basically all of their style to Magma, who singlehandedly invented the genre. The term Zheul is actaually part of the language made by Magma. So, yeah...

[Brand New]

[quote=Dr. Boskov Krevorkian;8926488]Yeah, it's really a blanket term. Post Rock is often considered Alternative, when it shows no relation whatsoever to other acts associated with it. xD

QUOTE]

Lol, just like Post-Hardcore, Post-Punk, and any other Post-bull**** they can think of.

[DragonSlayer]

Yeah I know, I wasn't saying they are part of progressive rock's history, it was just a random comment since i saw a topic involving zheul just when i was listening to them.

Lol, just like Post-Hardcore, Post-Punk, and any other Post-bull**** they can think of.

Well you know, at least post-rock is a distinctive genre unlike the others. The name is a bit dumb and was invented for bands who used rock instrumentation for non-rock music. Since then post-rock has gotten changed so much and has got much more going on so the genre name doesn't even make sense anymore but I don't know what else to call it either.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Originally Posted by Brand New

Lol, just like Post-Hardcore, Post-Punk, and any other Post-bull**** they can think of.

Exaclty.

The post prefix is becoming an annoying, trendy musical buzzword among scene kids. I'm only aware a few Post genres that actually have a significant difference from their parent genre.

Originally Posted by DragonSlayer

Yeah I know, I wasn't saying they are part of progressive rock's history, it was just a random comment since i saw a topic involving zheul just when i was listening to them.

Ahh, all's good then. xD

Zheul really needs a good promoting in the MD.

I really need to get ahold of Angharr Shishpa, everyone says it's their best work. Unfortnatley not even Oink has it. >.>

[Valentine ♥]

Yes is prog rock, correct?

(I got into a argument with some dumbass about that a year ago.)

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Yes are Symphonic Prog Rock, indeed. One of the leaders, even if they were the masters of Pretentiousness. *Cough*Wakeman*Cough*

I really wouldn't know what else to classify them else as either, unless we slap them with a Rock label as so many like to do.

[destroy_musick]

ahhh, Rick Wakeman, the man who told the Dead Kennedys they are talentless cess pool of spite XD

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

He's Wakeman, that's his job.

He's the one who put his own album to a choreographed ice show, concerning Arthur and the Round Table. If that's not text book pretentiousness, I don't know what is.

[Brand New]

Originally Posted by Dr. Boskov Krevorkian

Yes are Symphonic Prog Rock, indeed. One of the leaders, even if they were the masters of Pretentiousness. *Cough*Wakeman*Cough*

I really wouldn't know what else to classify them else as either, unless we slap them with a Rock label as so many like to do.

Yeah, what should we go with? How about post-rock? xD

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Well, post rock is probably the only Post-Genre I would consider an effective label.

What are GY!BE, Sigur Ros and Tortoise other than just "Rock"?

[Valentine ♥]

Originally Posted by destroy_musick

ahhh, Rick Wakeman, the man who told the Dead Kennedys they are talentless cess pool of spite XD

Originally Posted by Brand New

Yeah, what should we go with? How about post-rock? xD

Now that'd be interesting...might as well, LOLs.

[Haruka]

Originally Posted by Dr. Boskov Krevorkian

Krautrock

Spoiler:

Krautrock
Krautrock refers to the legions of German bands of the early '70s that expanded the sonic possibilities of art and progressive rock. Instead of following in the direction of their British and American counterparts, who were moving toward jazz and classical-based compositions and concept albums, the German bands became more mechanical and electronic. Working with early synthesizers and splicing together seemingly unconnected reels of tape, bands like Faust, Can, and Neu created a droning, pulsating sound that owed more to the avant garde than to rock & roll. Although the bands didn't make much of an impact while they were active in the '70s, their music anticipated much post-punk of the early '80s, particularly industrial rock. Kraut rock also came into vogue in the '90s, when groups like Stereolab and Tortoise began incorporating the hypnotic rhythms and electronic experiments of the German art-rock bands into their own, vaguely avant-garde indie rock


Krautrock can also be considered as 70's "acid" rock from Germany. A majority of bands experiment long instrumental improvisations with an important use of psychedelic effects, weird electronic sounds.

Avant Prog (Or Basically Zappa)/RIO

Spoiler:

RIO/Avant-Prog
Rock-in-Opposition — Often abbreviated RIO, this form of progressive rock relies heavily on early 20th century avant-garde classical structures. Dominated by dissonant chords, odd time meters, polyrhythms, and abstract, sometimes politically-oriented vocals, this style is often dismissed even by die-hard progressive fans. Like the other more avant-garde styles such as Krautrock, it should be listened to, and not just heard. Musicianship is extremely high, yet appreciation is somewhat low. This form of prog is best appreciated in live concert settings as the interaction between musicians is quite astounding to watch.

Avant-Prog - Avant-Prog is short for avant-garde progressive rock. This style appeared in the late 1970s as the extension of two separate prog rock sub-styles: Rock in Opposition (RIO) and prog of the Canterbury scene. RIO is a term restricted to temporal limits; Canterbury prog to geographical limits. The late 1970s onward saw the development of an avant-prog scene often functioning in the margin of mainstream prog. A host of groups and artists mainly from the USA, but also from Europe and Japan, started to write mostly short instrumental pieces that focused on complexity and stripped down instrumentation, while avoiding the pomposity and stage props of the big prog acts

Zheul

Spoiler:

Zeuhl
Zeuhl is an adjective in Kobaïan, the language written by Christian Vander, drummer and founder of the French band Magma.

Pronunciation: zEU(h)l, while the EU are like a French E with a slight U, and the (h) is a semi-silent letter which is an integrated part of the EU, totaling in a "syllable and a half".

The word means celestial, although many times it is misunderstood as meaning "celestial music", since the members of Magma describe the genre of their music as Zeuhl. Zeuhl Wortz, though, means Music of the universal might.


The genre is a mixture of musical genres like Neoclassicism, Romanticism, Modernism and Fusion. Common elements: oppressive or discipline-conveying feel, marching themes, throbbing bass, an ethereal piano or Rhodes piano, and brass instruments.

I strayed away from generic Prog acts like Symphonic, Art Rock and Psychadelic, as they're all fairly well known, and I think these other genres are often not given the recognition for their creativity, ingenuity and uniqueness that they deserve. And acts like RIO and Canterbury scene really aren't musically different from other acts, and usually sound nothing alike; the same applies to RIO.

So thoughts? (After reading that behomoth wall of stolen text)

I'm surprised that you stayed away from Symphonic, its the best in my opinion.

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

You kinda proved my point why I didn't post it though. xD

It's probably the most known and associated style of Prog associated with Proggressive Rock. I've found bands in all those genres that I like quite a bit, including our good Friends Yes, Genesis and a few others.

I wanted others who might not be as familiar with those genres to ask about them, as I think there are some awesome bands that don't get out as much as they should.

But yes, Symphonic Prog is love. xD