Itachi and Sasuke comparing MS

[Vergil642]

Whatever Sasuke has, it isn't a complete Tsukuyomi. I'll admit he may have a crappy version that he needs to train at to get good with, but the Genjutsu he used was not a "real" Tsukuyomi like that we saw Itachi use.

Itachi's Tsukuyomi.
-Happens instantly in real time. If someone were watching, they'd just see the victim collapse on the floor after being hit, but the victim would not be paralysed. Lack of movement would be down to them being unconscious.
-In Tsukuyomi the user is effectively omnipotent. Sasuke only stabbed Bee with some mind spikes.
-Tsukuyomi is no good as a paralysing Genjutsu. See the first point for why. It's only any good if you completely mindfuck someone into unconsciousness (so it isn't actual paralysis, you just KO them).
-Tsukuyomi does not have to have inverted colours. We saw this with Itachi's Tsukuyomi against Sasuke in their battle.
-Tsukuyomi hurts when broken. Itachi fell to one knee in pain after Sasuke escaped his.

Sasuke's Genjutsu.
-Affected Bee for more than a moment. We saw in real time it's effects; Bee got hit and fell to the ground, still under the Genjutsu's effect and though conscious, was paralysed. He was still lucid enough to think "Is this Genjutsu?" or something along those lines.
-Sasuke's Genjutsu was a simple stabbing up of Bee. It was more like an advanced version of Kasegui no Jutsu than a "I'm omnipotent and you're in for a world of hurt in here" Genjutsu.
-Sasuke fall to one knee when his Genjutsu was broken. This isn't due to superior willpower or skill with MS. We know this because his MS skills so far have been quite atrocious compared to Itachi's, especially in his Susanoo useage. The only area he was more skilled in was Amaterasu manipulation.
-Sasuke's Genjutsu had inverted colours, but as we've seen this does not automatically indicate it was Tsukuyomi.

And additionally, Sasuke's left eye MS jutsu is Amaterasu and his right eye appears to hold Kagatsuchi. This means comparing which of his eyes does what to Itachi's is inherently flawed: Itachi held a different jutsu from Sasuke in each eye. Even if Sasuke did use his left eye to cast the Genjutsu, he's got a confirmed jutsu in there. Unless he's got two jutsu per eye, this doesn't make sense. Furthermore, we always have been given confirmation of when Tsukuyomi has been used previously, either before or immediately after the useage of it. Sasuke however, conspicuously lacked such confirmation.

Whatever Sasuke has, it certainly isn't a full Tsukuyomi. The aesthetic similarities and the fact he cast it with MS indicate it is an MS Genjutsu (loose evidence though; Itachi was casting Genjutsu with MS active) and logic dictates he wouldn't hold back against Bee (despite seemingly dispersing his Chidori to shock and not pierce him and putting the Amaterasu flames out on the Bijuu's remains, contradicting that idea) leads us to believe he may have an unskilled version of it that he still needs to master (could explain his crappy Susanoo). However, to claim he has Tsukuyomi as used by Itachi is, well, bollocks. He's simply not shown anything like that yet. At best a pallid, sickly imitation.

On the subject of who's MS useage is better, it's clearly Itachi. The pair have different uses for their jutsu however. Itachi's is better for nonlethal one shotting and conserves his stamina more. Tsukuyomi appears to put less strain on him than Amaterasu and doesn't have to kill anyone, but also helps to reinforce his evil persona. His Amaterasu use is also impeccable, and despite lacking Kagatsuchi he was able to control the flames, albeit in a simple manner, with incredible accuracy enough to allow Sasuke to survive being hit. His Susanoo is clearly superior through hugely superior durability feats and it's confirmed spiritual items.

Sasuke doesn't measure up still. In time I'm confident his MS will surpass Itachi's, or EMs anyway, but for now that time has yet to come.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by godtachi

being slowed down is different than happening instantly , which is tsukiyomi's case.So no, even if time is slowed down, it will happen instantly.Even kakashi said that after Chiyo's speech about how to brea from a sharingan genjutsu.

so duration is 0s right? then it couldnt have impact on kakashis body. And also, if it was 0s, how could kakashispeak to itachi in tsukuyomi, yes, you can slow time in tsukuyomi, but even is you would slow 0s 100 times it will be still 0s. And if it would happen instantly, it would stop EXACTLY when it starts. That means itachi couldnt stab kakashi, becouse it would be over already. So it had to be at least 0,00000001s or less but not instantly.

Originally Posted by godtachi

No , you need to master the techniques in both your eyes to master Susanoo,as said by sasuke , no mention here of tsukiyomi.

cough.. databook 3... cought
and what is sasukes second ability then? dont mention enton, he used it after first use uf susanoo

[Griever]

I think that if Sasuke did have Tsukiyomi he would have said "Tsukiyomi" when he used it. that's the way it normally is, no?. When Itachi used Amaterasu he said "Amaterasu" same with Tsukiyomi, Susanno, And Sasuke's no different, when he used his MS jutsu he always Said the name... if he had used Tsukiyomi on Bee why would he skip the name just this one time??..

The databook said that Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu are needed to make Susanno, because Itachi was the only one with the MS at the time. The databook also said that "Amaterasu burns as hot as the sun", and that "Amaterasu is the strongest ninjutsu", which was proven wrong when Chou shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei where used. You see the databook is more or less just a guide to fallow and it changes as the manga goes on.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by Griever

I think that if Sasuke did have Tsukiyomi he would have said "Tsukiyomi" when he used it. that's the way it normally is, no?. When Itachi used Amaterasu he said "Amaterasu" same with Tsukiyomi, Susanno, And Sasuke's no different, when he used his MS jutsu he always Said the name... if he had used Tsukiyomi on Bee why would he skip the name just this one time??..

The databook said that Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu are needed to make Susanno, because Itachi was the only one with the MS at the time. The databook also said that "Amaterasu burns as hot as the sun", and that "Amaterasu is the strongest ninjutsu", which was proven wrong when Chou shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei where used. You see the databook is more or less just a guide to fallow and it changes as the manga goes on.

show me where is Sasuke yelling "susanoo" here.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/463/07/

[godtachi]

Originally Posted by Honza

so duration is 0s right? then it couldnt have impact on kakashis body. And also, if it was 0s, how could kakashispeak to itachi in tsukuyomi, yes, you can slow time in tsukuyomi, but even is you would slow 0s 100 times it will be still 0s. And if it would happen instantly, it would stop EXACTLY when it starts. That means itachi couldnt stab kakashi, becouse it would be over already. So it had to be at least 0,00000001s or less but not instantly.

cough.. databook 3... cought
and what is sasukes second ability then? dont mention enton, he used it after first use uf susanoo

instantly is an hyperbole, man .It means it's too fast for anybody or anything to react to.
DB3 was talking specifically about itachi since he was the first to have used it in the manga, as the manga goes on ,things change.
, Enton is not a technique, it's Kagatsuchi the second technique Sasuke has.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by godtachi

instantly is an hyperbole, man .It means it's too fast for anybody or anything to react to.
DB3 was talking specifically about itachi since he was the first to have used it in the manga, as the manga goes on ,things change.
Enton is not a technique, it's Kagatsuchi the second technique Sasuke has.

Originally Posted by godtachi

being slowed down is different than happening instantly , which is tsukiyomi's case...

so you say that hachibi couldnt help killer bee even if he would be affected by slowed time too becouse it would happen instantly. And now you sa that instantly means just very fast.
DB was talking generally, "Only in them who hold both of those, dwells the power of the wild, rampaging god... Susanoo"
but still, he used kagetsuchi AFTER susanoo, so he couldnt master it to achive susanoo.