Itachi VS Jiraiya

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Yeah it is, the standard MS gives you 3 MS jutsu+Kyuubi control+blindness.
Whereas the EMS gives you 3 MS jutsu+1 EMS jutsu+no blindness+Kyuubi control.

Only diffrence is 1 new EMS technique and no blindness .

so your basically saying every MS technique is usless against Pein but somehow the new EMS technique is gonna be too godly and defeat the Pein that was whopping Itachi's ass with ease , as you presume .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Fuuinjutsu or Suiton Ninjutsu take your pick.

my question was when did they use anything with water in that fight against Pein , please don't tell me Jiraya will be able to seal Amaterasu ....

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Jiraiya also willed himself back to life that counts, the CS probably helped his Sharingan, and Sasuke's strong will of hate help him break it.

he has Sharingan , remember what Itachi said to Kakkashi , a person with a Sharingan and a Genkei Kekkei body is able to break or stand up to it , these two things Jiraya doesn't have , also Sasuke's hatred or will thing , is now under question since , Itachi could have killed Sasuke anytime he wanted , meaning that he might have allowed Sasuke to break out of Tsukiyomi since he controls everything in that World .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Samehada mastered all 6 chakra types

Its likely to be true, did Pein master all 6 chakra types yeah he did, does space-time fall under Yin-Yang yes it does, is Absorption Pein a magical warlock who can cast spells to absorb jutsu no he isn't.

why not ? if Kishi done millions of unreasonable things (live only with a heart , 5 hearts , talk with head decapitated , have mouths in your hands ,etc...), why can't he do that (btw i don't truly beleive that warlock thing but Kishi can do anything) .
and where was it said the 6 element is Yin yang ?

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

I see through your sarcasm, Pein can defeat Itachi face it, Itachi's whole only a Sharingan user can beat him was total bullshit.

so you beleive one thing of Itachi and refuse to beleive another ...

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Or like the manga canon says they'll kill each other since non of them are anywhere near Pein's level.

the Same manga Canon that Itachi said he can only be defeated by only a Sharingan user ...

[SM00TH38]

......
1) EMS is a upgrade....a new Doujustu would be the MS turning into the Rin'ningan
2) Pa's Fuuinjutsu or Suiton Ninjutsu do not = Amatersu... once again your going against canon
3) Neji, and Choji both willed themselves back to life...can they break tsukuyomi ? .....also Naruto has the greatest WoF and he cant will hisself out of itachi's base genjustu, Jiraiya WoF is weaker than probably most of the rookie 9...why can i say this? because he has be a failure for most of his life...thats also canon
4) you're using fanfics to justify why pein can absorb shit, and then stating it as fact. We dont know how he absorbs justu's, and we dont know if his absorbtion abilities would work on a spiritual summon like Susano'o
5) the one tails is capable of holding a converstion, thus making it an intelligent being...it may not be smart, but doesnt mean it cant think logically
6) manga canon says jiraiya is a failure, and itachi life has been an illusion in order to protect konoha.

[HumanWine]

Originally Posted by SM00TH38

......
1) EMS is a upgrade....a new Doujustu would be the MS turning into the Rin'ningan
2) Pa's Fuuinjutsu or Suiton Ninjutsu do not = Amatersu... once again your going against canon
3) Neji, and Choji both willed themselves back to life...can they break tsukuyomi ? .....also Naruto has the greatest WoF and he can get out of itachi's base genjustu, Jiraiya WoF is weaker than probably most of the rookie 9...why can i say this? because he has be a failure for most of his life...thats also canon
4) you're using fanfics to justify why pein can absorb shit, and then stating it as fact. We dont know how he absorbs justu's, and we dont know if his absorbtion abilities would work on a spiritual summon like Susano'o
5) the one tails is capable of holding a converstion, thus making it an intelligent being...it may not be smart, but doesnt mean it cant think logically
6) manga canon says jiraiya is a failure, and itachi life has been an illusion in order to protect konoha.

These are not lies which is why I do not understand Jiraiya's appeal. Even filler episodes state this. Every other makes fanwank makes sense besides Jiraiya's.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Originally Posted by Tenjin

Only diffrence is 1 new EMS technique and no blindness .

so your basically saying every MS technique is usless against Pein but somehow the new EMS technique is gonna be too godly and defeat the Pein that was whopping Itachi's ass with ease , as you presume .

Well yeah, the fact that Pein ordered a MS user and is taking orders from a EMS user proves it.

my question was when did they use anything with water in that fight against Pein , please don't tell me Jiraya will be able to seal Amaterasu ....

To slice Pein's summon is half, Jiraiya, Ma or Pa take your pick.

he has Sharingan , remember what Itachi said to Kakkashi , a person with a Sharingan and a Genkei Kekkei body is able to break or stand up to it , these two things Jiraya doesn't have , also Sasuke's hatred or will thing , is now under question since , Itachi could have killed Sasuke anytime he wanted , meaning that he might have allowed Sasuke to break out of Tsukiyomi since he controls everything in that World .

Sasuke has no MS thus apparently wasn't able to match the MS, w/ his will of hate he broke it.

why not ? if Kishi done millions of unreasonable things (live only with a heart , 5 hearts , talk with head decapitated , have mouths in your hands ,etc...), why can't he do that (btw i don't truly beleive that warlock thing but Kishi can do anything) .
and where was it said the 6 element is Yin yang ?

Space-time makes the most sense.

It was 6 chakra types, refer to the training arc.

so you beleive one thing of Itachi and refuse to beleive another ...

When people like Hashirama, Minato and Pein were introduced I instantly knew that comment was bullshit.

the Same manga Canon that Itachi said he can only be defeated by only a Sharingan user ...

This was proven wrong.

Originally Posted by SM00TH38

......
1) EMS is a upgrade....a new Doujustu would be the MS turning into the Rin'ningan

Or making the MS the EMS.

2) Pa's Fuuinjutsu or Suiton Ninjutsu do not = Amatersu... once again your going against canon

I see Amaterasu isn't a Katon and Jiraiya didn't seal Amaterasu with a Fuuinjutsu?

3) Neji, and Choji both willed themselves back to life...can they break tsukuyomi ? .....also Naruto has the greatest WoF and he cant will hisself out of itachi's base genjustu, Jiraiya WoF is weaker than probably most of the rookie 9...why can i say this? because he has be a failure for most of his life...thats also canon

Neji and Chouji's will are not as strong as Jiraiya's will.

4) you're using fanfics to justify why pein can absorb shit, and then stating it as fact. We dont know how he absorbs justu's, and we dont know if his absorbtion abilities would work on a spiritual summon like Susano'o

Read the manga, unless Pein is somehow a wizard then no, he mastered 6 chakra types and space-time falls under the Yin-Yang chakra type and as we saw from Kakashi space-time jutus can absorb anything including Susano'o.

Now face it this whole Itachi is on Pein's level is bullshit, unless he somehow surpassed Madara then no he isn't on Pein's level.

5) the one tails is capable of holding a converstion, thus making it an intelligent being...it may not be smart, but doesnt mean it cant think logically

It isn't intelligent, if it was it wouldn't have lost to a Genin.

6) manga canon says jiraiya is a failure, and itachi life has been an illusion in order to protect konoha.

So he failed in leaving the key to help Naruto get strong and he failed to will himself back to life and he failed to write all the necessary details on Pa's back

Originally Posted by HumanWine

These are not lies which is why I do not understand Jiraiya's appeal. Even filler episodes state this. Every other makes fanwank makes sense besides Jiraiya's.

Stop posting in Jiraiya vs Itachi threads if your only gonna type your fanwank crap in every few pages then later bash members in your sig

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Well yeah, the fact that Pein ordered a MS user and is taking orders from a EMS user proves it.

Itachi inflitrated Akatsuki for Konoha meaning he is a spy , he isn't some Bad @ss who takes orders from Pein because he is afraid of his Power .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

To slice Pein's summon is half, Jiraiya, Ma or Pa take your pick.

that was a Suiton .. i thought it was Ma's Tongue ??? ...

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Sasuke has no MS thus apparently wasn't able to match the MS, w/ his will of hate he broke it.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/15/
he said a Sharingan can have some resistance to it , and you clearly didn't read my Madara comment thing .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Space-time makes the most sense.
It was 6 chakra types, refer to the training arc.

you mean the same common Sense that we use to tell you about Itachi's reason of running away from Jiraya? ...

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

When people like Hashirama, Minato and Pein were introduced I instantly knew that comment was bullshit.

lol

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

This was proven wrong.

by who ? don't tell me Madara crap , im talking about Itachi .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

I see Amaterasu isn't a Katon and Jiraiya didn't seal Amaterasu with a Fuuinjutsu?

nowhere in the manga has been shown that seals stopped live Jutsu's . and what i mean by live i mean ones that were just immediatly casted .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Read the manga, unless Pein is somehow a wizard then no, he mastered 6 chakra types and space-time falls under the Yin-Yang chakra type and as we saw from Kakashi space-time jutus can absorb anything including Susano'o.

its still a Theory ... , sorry what ??? Kakkashis MS can abosrb Susanoo . proof please .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Now face it this whole Itachi is on Pein's level is bullshit, unless he somehow surpassed Madara then no he isn't on Pein's level.

that's what you think .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

It isn't intelligent, if it was it wouldn't have lost to a Genin.

Kabuto lost to that Genin ... is Kabuto an idiot as well

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Originally Posted by Tenjin

Itachi inflitrated Akatsuki for Konoha meaning he is a spy , he isn't some Bad @ss who takes orders from Pein because he is afraid of his Power .

He didn't bother taking him out and even knew quite a bit of his plan so...

that was a Suiton .. i thought it was Ma's Tongue ??? ...

It came from Pa's mouth.

Ma brought it down and Pa sliced it in half.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/15/
he said a Sharingan can have some resistance to it , and you clearly didn't read my Madara comment thing .

Kakashi lacked a strong will and ended up in a coma.

you mean the same common Sense that we use to tell you about Itachi's reason of running away from Jiraya? ...

I know he could've taken Jiraiya, I'm trying to prove Itachi isn't on Pein's level but rather on the same level as Jiraiya.

lol

by who ? don't tell me Madara crap , im talking about Itachi .

Notice how Madara far exceeded Itachi on terms of Sharingan power and despite that he lost to a non Uchiha.

nowhere in the manga has been shown that seals stopped live Jutsu's . and what i mean by live i mean ones that were just immediatly casted .

Not where does it show anyone stupid enough(save Sakura and Ino) who will just stand there.

its still a Theory ... , sorry what ??? Kakkashis MS can abosrb Susanoo . proof please .

Space-time absorbs anything, unless someone else can come up with an explanation about that jutsu I still will believe it is a space-time Ninjutsu.

that's what you think .

And Kishi when he made Pein one of the final villains and Itachi Sasuke's ultimate benchmark.

Kabuto lost to that Genin ... is Kabuto an idiot as well

Back then yeah.

[SM00TH38]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Sasuke has no MS thus apparently wasn't able to match the MS, w/ his will of hate he broke it.

Sasuke has a sharingan, which helps in recognizing justu's and breaking them down.... Jiraiya doesnt

Space-time makes the most sense.

It was 6 chakra types, refer to the training arc.

make sense to you, but its still a fanfic and its unproven

When people like Hashirama, Minato and Pein were introduced I instantly knew that comment was bullshit.

so itachi ,at a younger age, has achieved more then them all, isnt on there level...

This was proven wrong.

where ?

Or making the MS the EMS.

its still a from of a sharingan, not a whole new Doujustu

I see Amaterasu isn't a Katon and Jiraiya didn't seal Amaterasu with a Fuuinjutsu?

Jiraiya sealed some after flames, that where stationary, after the coast was clear... lets see him try that in live combat

Neji and Chouji's will are not as strong as Jiraiya's will.

Neji and Chouji are both still alive... jiraiya isnt... i guess Jiraiya WoF isnt as good as theirs

Read the manga, unless Pein is somehow a wizard then no, he mastered 6 chakra types and space-time falls under the Yin-Yang chakra type and as we saw from Kakashi space-time jutus can absorb anything including Susano'o.

.... i guess kakashi > Itachi in your book too?

Now face it this whole Itachi is on Pein's level is bullshit, unless he somehow surpassed Madara then no he isn't on Pein's level.

It isn't intelligent, if it was it wouldn't have lost to a Genin.

so how stupid is kakuza, Kabuto, and everyone else naruto has beatin

So he failed in leaving the key to help Naruto get strong and he failed to will himself back to life and he failed to write all the necessary details on Pa's back

he failed to save his teacher, he failed to save his student, he failed to bring his friend back from the darkness, he failed the village,he failed to win tsunada's heart, but most importantly he failed naruto in 2.5 years of useless training

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Originally Posted by SM00TH38

Sasuke has a sharingan, which helps in recognizing justu's and breaking them down.... Jiraiya doesnt

Sasuke's hate wasn't strong enough back then, 2 years later it was.

make sense to you, but its still a fanfic and its unproven

It had manga facts, now unless you want to prove Pein is a warlock then just face it.

so itachi ,at a younger age, has achieved more then them all, isnt on there level...

Exactly, Hashirama could fight at Madara's level which Itachi can't.

where ?

By Madara.

its still a from of a sharingan, not a whole new Doujustu

Fine the MS isn't a whole new jutsu is just a simple upgrade from the base Sharingan.

Jiraiya sealed some after flames, that where stationary, after the coast was clear... lets see him try that in live combat

Lets see him being stupid enough to stand there waiting to burn.

Neji and Chouji are both still alive... jiraiya isnt... i guess Jiraiya WoF isnt as good as theirs

Its better, unlike them he almost Pein the Akatsuki's leader.

.... i guess kakashi > Itachi in your book too?

Nope, I guess you believe Itachi surpassed Madara?

Prove it if you claim he is on his level.

so how stupid is kakuza, Kabuto, and everyone else naruto has beatin

Kakuzu could've taken him if there was no Yamato and Kabuto, and yes Kabuto was an idiot since he didn't use blades to chop Naruto's hand, instead he took a Rasengan.

he failed to save his teacher, he failed to save his student, he failed to bring his friend back from the darkness, he failed the village,he failed to win tsunada's heart, but most importantly he failed naruto in 2.5 years of useless training

But his final message will help defeat Pein who is above his and Itachi's level.

[Nikushimi]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

I see through your sarcasm, Pein can defeat Itachi face it, Itachi's whole only a Sharingan user can beat him was total bullshit.

Hey, guess who beat Itachi? Another Sharingan user. Oh, and you know what? Itachi was mortally-ill and holding back, and intended to lose right from the start.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Fuuinjutsu will be used then, happy?

No time. Amaterasu will appear instantly on him and burn him up.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Or like the manga canon says they'll kill each other since non of them are anywhere near Pein's level.

Manga canon says Itachi>>>>>Sannin, just like Pein. Itachi is on Pein's level, deal with it.

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Sasuke's hate wasn't strong enough back then, 2 years later it was.

Sasuke's Sharingan wasn't fully developed .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Exactly, Hashirama could fight at Madara's level which Itachi can't.

proof that Madara back in the day > Madara nowdays .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Lets see him being stupid enough to stand there waiting to burn.

Amaterasu = Unavodiable he can run as much as he want , also stop ignoring Madara's comment about Itachi being able to kill Sasuke anytime he wanted .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Kakuzu could've taken him if there was no Yamato and Kabuto, and yes Kabuto was an idiot since he didn't use blades to chop Naruto's hand, instead he took a Rasengan.

and his hand that was stuck to Naruto's hand?

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

But his final message will help defeat Pein who is above his and Itachi's level.

in your opinion that is based on a bunch of Fanfics.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Originally Posted by Nikushimi

Hey, guess who beat Itachi? Another Sharingan user. Oh, and you know what? Itachi was mortally-ill and holding back, and intended to lose right from the start.

Guess who lost to a non Sharingan user, an Uchiha who is way stronger then Itachi

No time. Amaterasu will appear instantly on him and burn him up.

Sasuke has time to escape.

Manga canon says Itachi>>>>>Sannin, just like Pein. Itachi is on Pein's level, deal with it.

He isn't on Pein's level if he surpassed Madara then you'd be on to something.

Originally Posted by Tenjin

Sasuke's Sharingan wasn't fully developed .

And his will to hate wasn't strong enough.

proof that Madara back in the day > Madara nowdays .

Madara present>Madara past, but Madara past was also stronger then Itachi.

Amaterasu = Unavodiable he can run as much as he want , also stop ignoring Madara's comment about Itachi being able to kill Sasuke anytime he wanted .

But that Sasuke wasn't at Jiraiya's level.

and his hand that was stuck to Naruto's hand?

His other hand was free.

in your opinion that is based on a bunch of Fanfics.

Theory which had manga evidence, until someone proves Pein is a warlock I'll stick to it.

And if you think that message won't also be a cause of Pein's defeat I lol at you.

[SM00TH38]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Sasuke's hate wasn't strong enough back then, 2 years later it was.

so are you saying his sharingan has nothing to do with that... better yet, are you saying will of hate > sharingan....

It had manga facts, now unless you want to prove Pein is a warlock then just face it.

lol...wow i suppose to face a fanfic as the truth....

Exactly, Hashirama could fight at Madara's level which Itachi can't.

i think you got this wrong.. i said Itachi has done more at his ( Itachi) than all the above

Fine the MS isn't a whole new jutsu is just a simple upgrade from the base Sharingan.

thank you...

Lets see him being stupid enough to stand there waiting to burn.

he can run, but remember its suppose to be unavoiddable

Its better, unlike them he almost Pein the Akatsuki's leader.

Nope, I guess you believe Itachi surpassed Madara?

Prove it if you claim he is on his level.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/386/11/
read this carefully, itachi feels that if he has the EMS ( which only gives 1 new unknown justu, and no blindness) he can surpass madara.. meaning he is close to his level

Kakuzu could've taken him if there was no Yamato and Kabuto, and yes Kabuto was an idiot since he didn't use blades to chop Naruto's hand, instead he took a Rasengan.

But his final message will help defeat Pein who is above his and Itachi's level.

yep to bad he couldnt get that to him sooner....the failure

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Guess who lost to a non Sharingan user, an Uchiha who is way stronger then Itachi

so your Using the A>B>C logic ... in that case Itachi murderstomps Jiraya like he did to Oro .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

And his will to hate wasn't strong enough.

i think the hatred thing was symbolic , remember what Zetsu afterwards , its about Sharingan mastery , not the will of hate , also even if it was about Hatred , he still needs Sharingan , and don't bother to tell me Jirayas Will >Sasuke's hatred . because it ain't.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Madara present>Madara past, but Madara past was also stronger then Itachi.

Manga proof please ...

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

But that Sasuke wasn't at Jiraiya's level.

he wasn't o Jiraya's level thats true , but Jiraya isn't that much Higher than he is .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

His other hand was free.

he used it to kill Naruto instead of chop his hand ... it took plot no jutsu to bring Back Naruto .

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Theory which had manga evidence, until someone proves Pein is a warlock I'll stick to it.

And if you think that message won't also be a cause of Pein's defeat I lol at you.

its still a theorey ... and not a proven one at that .

i think it will be the cause of his defeat , but still that was his only accomplishment in 50 years ... after so many failures .

[Truepotential]

he used it to kill Naruto instead of chop his hand ... it took plot no jutsu to bring Back Kabuto .

I'll tell you what Plot no jutsu is.

The fact that Tsunade fucking blitzed and destroyed Naruto with a finger, then the same Tsunade had her speed equaled or overwhelmed by Kabuto. Then Kabuto was slow enough to be caught in Naruto's hand.

[Nikushimi]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Guess who lost to a non Sharingan user, an Uchiha who is way stronger then Itachi

Senju clan was stated to be Uchiha's equal. Itachi is much stronger than Young Madara, though, so he's much stronger than Senju. Hence his statement that only another Sharingan user could defeat him.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Sasuke has time to escape.

Because Itachi let him, according to Tobi. Tobi didn't even see the fight, but offhand he knew without a doubt that if Itachi had tried to, there would be no way Sasuke could've escaped it.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

He isn't on Pein's level if he surpassed Madara then you'd be on to something.

LMAO, current Madara would rapestomp all over Pein.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Madara present>Madara past, but Madara past was also stronger then Itachi.

Lolno, all Young Madara had was EMS + Kyuubi. As we've seen, base Sharingan can beat Mangekyou, so regular Mangekyou could probably beat EMS if the gap was big enough. In this case, it is. Itachi would hack the Kyuubi, use it against Young Madara, and rape him stupid.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

But that Sasuke wasn't at Jiraiya's level.

Sasuke was above Jiraiya's level and probably still is. He tangled with Deidara and was pretty even with him, and Deidara was like...Jiraiya-level, but had a specific counter to the Sharingan that Jiraiya does not.

[Truepotential]

Lolno, all Young Madara had was EMS + Kyuubi. As we've seen, base Sharingan can beat Mangekyou, so regular Mangekyou could probably beat EMS if the gap was big enough. In this case, it is. Itachi would hack the Kyuubi, use it against Young Madara, and rape him stupid.

Base Sharingan beat Tsukiyomi, 1/3 of Mangekyou Sharingan.

Sasuke was above Jiraiya's level and probably still is. He tangled with Deidara and was pretty even with him, and Deidara was like...Jiraiya-level, but had a specific counter to the Sharingan that Jiraiya does not

Deidara would've beat Sasuke, if it wasn't for the elemental advantage.

Deidara on Jiraiya's level? I don't think so.

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Originally Posted by Truepotential

Base Sharingan beat Tsukiyomi, 1/3 of Mangekyou Sharingan.

Only because Itachi allowed him .

Originally Posted by Truepotential

Deidara on Jiraiya's level? I don't think so.

Hahaha Deidara > Jiraya , C4 Is enough to get rid of Pa Ma , Jiraya and wipe him out of excistense.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Originally Posted by Tenjin

so your Using the A>B>C logic ... in that case Itachi murderstomps Jiraya like he did to Oro .

A>B>C is usually correct.

So are you saying if Kakashi>Inari>bug then Kakashi>bug may not be true?

i think the hatred thing was symbolic , remember what Zetsu afterwards , its about Sharingan mastery , not the will of hate , also even if it was about Hatred , he still needs Sharingan , and don't bother to tell me Jirayas Will >Sasuke's hatred . because it ain't.

He said the Sharingan is just a tool.

Manga proof please ...

EMS, your turn.

he wasn't o Jiraya's level thats true , but Jiraya isn't that much Higher than he is .

Have no not seen me say they are equals many times?

he used it to kill Naruto instead of chop his hand ... it took plot no jutsu to bring Back Naruto .

It took the plot-no-jutsu to make Kabuto take the Rasengan.

its still a theorey ... and not a proven one at that .

Pein mastered the Yin-Yang chakra type correct?

i think it will be the cause of his defeat , but still that was his only accomplishment in 50 years ... after so many failures .

Who cares, this thing will save the world thus his failures are short compared to this.

Originally Posted by Truepotential

I'll tell you what Plot no jutsu is.

The fact that Tsunade fucking blitzed and destroyed Naruto with a finger, then the same Tsunade had her speed equaled or overwhelmed by Kabuto. Then Kabuto was slow enough to be caught in Naruto's hand.

I see...

Originally Posted by Nikushimi

Senju clan was stated to be Uchiha's equal. Itachi is much stronger than Young Madara, though, so he's much stronger than Senju. Hence his statement that only another Sharingan user could defeat him.

I'd believe you if Madara never had the EMS.

Because Itachi let him, according to Tobi. Tobi didn't even see the fight, but offhand he knew without a doubt that if Itachi had tried to, there would be no way Sasuke could've escaped it.

So Amaterasu causes him no pain and he can just open and close his eye to cast Amaterasu whenever he wants.

LMAO, current Madara would rapestomp all over Pein.

Not rape defeat, current Pein and Madara would beat Itachi like he is pre skip Naruto.

Lolno, all Young Madara had was EMS + Kyuubi. As we've seen, base Sharingan can beat Mangekyou, so regular Mangekyou could probably beat EMS if the gap was big enough. In this case, it is. Itachi would hack the Kyuubi, use it against Young Madara, and rape him stupid.

Really then why did Itachi imply that the EMS is required to defeat Madara

Sasuke was above Jiraiya's level and probably still is.

He wasn't, now he above his level.

He tangled with Deidara and was pretty even with him, and Deidara was like...Jiraiya-level, but had a specific counter to the Sharingan that Jiraiya does not.

Deidara was below Jiraiya's level who is equal to Itachi, and he was below Sasuke's level.

[Nikushimi]

Originally Posted by Truepotential

Base Sharingan beat Tsukiyomi, 1/3 of Mangekyou Sharingan.

And Itachi was holding back. But the point is, under the right circumstances with the right gap, it IS possible. I just think that gap exists between Itachi and Young Madara, since Madara was an idiot and lost to Shodai, who is weaker than old Sarutobi.

Originally Posted by Truepotential

Deidara would've beat Sasuke, if it wasn't for the elemental advantage.

Deidara on Jiraiya's level? I don't think so.

Sasuke was leaps and bounds stronger than Orochimaru after he absorbed him, then he fought Deidara. And, as you said, Sasuke only won because of an elemental advantage. So Deidara is easily on Jiraiya's level, and would probably beat him with the C4 Karura. Of course, the C4 Karura is almost impossible to deal with for ANYONE who doesn't have Sharingan or Byakugan. And if worse comes to worse...well, with Deidara, I think you already know.

[Nikushimi]

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

A>B>C is usually correct.

So are you saying if Kakashi>Inari>bug then Kakashi>bug may not be true?

Then Itachi>Orochimaru>Jiraiya. So stfu.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

I'd believe you if Madara never had the EMS.

EMS just means he took his brother's eyes. It has nothing to do with power or skill, it's something ANY Uchiha can get. It's like giving an evolution stone to your Pokemanz and making it evolve. Sure, it gets stronger, but it's still Level 5 and weak as motherfucking hell.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

So Amaterasu causes him no pain and he can just open and close his eye to cast Amaterasu whenever he wants.

Nobody's saying that. But when he uses it, it gets the job done.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Not rape defeat, current Pein and Madara would beat Itachi like he is pre skip Naruto.

Itachi would defeat Pein with extreme difficulty and Madara would defeat Itachi with extreme difficulty, but stomp Pein. Itachi, being a Mangekyou Sharingan user and having knowledge of Madara, is the only one who could possibly fight him effectively. Everyone else would just...faze through, and be like "WTF?".

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Really then why did Itachi imply that the EMS is required to defeat Madara

Gee, I dunno... Because it is?

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

He wasn't, now he above his level.

So you're saying Sasuke, who has activated Mangekyou Sharingan and has no techniques for it, is stronger than Juin Sasuke? Bullshit. Sasuke is much weaker now than he was before. Kishimoto did it so Naruto would stand a chance. If anything, Sasuke may actually be Jiraiya's equal now, but he used to be stronger than him by far.

Originally Posted by Munboy Dracule O'Brian

Deidara was below Jiraiya's level who is equal to Itachi, and he was below Sasuke's level.

Deidara was at least equal to Sasuke. Sasuke only had an elemental advantage. Jiraiya is nowhere near Itachi's level, and is still below Sasuke's.