Correction of some facts regarding Dark Schneider

[Yak]

Okay, since he has shown up recently in some threads again I got in the mood/urge of re-reading certain passages from the manga and found some details that have to be corrected as they are posted incorrect/semi-correct in the Power Directory. These things need to be cleared up.

To help me out isntead of typing confusing explanations I scanned three pages from the manga that more or less should cast some light into the matter of DS’s powers, the Dispel Bound and his movement/reaction/thinking speed. The quality of the scan isn’t the best, I apologize in advance as well as for the crappy editing but at least the translation from German to English contains everything necessary and is along the facts where it is absolutely necessary.


http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/8163/0001eng3km.jpg

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/8199/00023pr.jpg

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3447/00035mq.jpg


Anyway, as we can understand from the third scan, Raphael, one of the Archangels explains that DS and his opponent Uriel collide with SOUND-speed several THOUSAND TIMES within SECONDS.

Okay, now do some basic math. I hope I won’t screw this up completely, it’s rather late over here.

Sound speed depends on the element and it’s temperature, for example within air with a temperature of 20° Celcius, sound speed is 343 m/s, according to Wikipedia. I take this as a normal condition for a fight for now.

So that means that 343 m/s * minimum 1000 (since they collide several thousand times we have to assume that 1000 is the minimum) which brings us to at least 343.000 m/s. That’s the distance DS can cover AT MINIMUM. We have to assume that it is far more since during the fight you can see on the scans DS manages to overcome Uriels repair-speed, therefore he can still increase his speed to an yet unknown level.

As for light speed: within vacuum light speed is 299.797.458 m/s. That’s ridiculously higher than what DS has shown as his minimum speed. Even if DS could increase his speed it’s highly doubtable he would even come close to NORMAL light speed. And there were people claiming he could move several HUNDRED times light speed. That’s off the scale, even for DS.

Yes, I know I’ve been among those people to and supported it despite owning the manga and therefore the facts printed black on white. But please for give me, it’s simply lack of information. It’s been more than 2 years that I have touched the manga and I simply forgot about some of the details, especially this one which doesn’t describe his actual speed explicitely.

Raphael furthermore states that their “senses are infinite”. Well, what that means is partially up to interpretation but it at least hints at the fact that DS can think and use his senses in a much faster way than his body moves (see calculation above) – up to a level where it becomes incomprehendable for humans (Raphael is explaining this to a human) and even hardly to keep up with for an Archangel.

So, that’s it for now. If someone has questions regarding this matter or demands further scans for proof or evidance, I will see what I can do for you. But please, don’t ask me to scan the manga for you. It isn’t sold anymore in Germany since we lost the rights for publishing it. And I love those graphic novels and would like to keep them in good shape. It’s actually not very good for their condition to squeeze them into the scanner too often.

[Kaki]

Thanks for that illistrated explaination, D.S. owns...

[Yak]

No problem. ;) Also this certainly degrades some of DS reputation and definitely puts some limits on his semi-omnipotence it might also help getting some people (including me again) getting from their high horses and realize that even DS is beatable other than through cosmic entities or such. :amuse

Anyway, he's still an upper-tier fighter imo, his strength, speed and magic is still enough to take out most of his battledome-opponents.

[Kaki]

I thought it rather glorified him.....
what vol. where the scans from?

[Yak]

It didn't. It was to correct the myth about him being able to move several hundred times light speed whereas he doesn't even come close to normal light speed. That's downplaying his abilities, yes, but it's the truth.

Also, als the other things stated in the scans are the truth but those are more or less facts already known. They didn't need to be corrected it was merely for explanation to those who have no idea how Dispell Bound works, among other things.

Volume is 22. The last one released in Germany. I believe 23 should be out by now in Japan.

[Kaki]

well I don't see any good in moving the speed of light, and I'd love for someone to explain how to exceed the speed of light......
Moving the speed of light would entail becoming light and thus loosing one's identity....
Light type magic beams and balls are better modes of attack....

[Yak]

This is not the place for discussing the use of whatever is canon from the Bastard!! manga... see, I don't like everything going on in there myself but I didn't create it. If Hagiwara says DS could move the speed of light, then he could be it due to complex explanations in physics or due to the use of magic which can't be explained properly anyway. Anyway, it hasn't been stated, only that DS moves very fast but not speed of light.

Also DS can't use white magic except of a few spells containing light-energy but with other magic source than white magic.

[tri-sapphire]

Interesting, so the facts are finally out.

I wonder how it got started that DS could go faster than lightspeed though? Is there anything from the manga that could lead to this?

Do you also have the volume with Uriel's release in it? I think that's where the whole "blowing up galaxies" thing originated from.

And one more thing: I've heard it mentioned that one of the devils survived an attack from a spear with enough power to destroy the universe in one shot. And that Dark Schneider defeated him. True?

[Reznor]

What? Oh shit! This thread should be renamed "The DaSchneider Code!"

[Keollyn]

Good thing that's his range BEFORE he obtains the Judas Pain from the fastest demon king.

[Scorpio3.14]

Is it possible something could be lost in translation though? I mean it is going from Japanese to German to English. For example I would NEVER trust Viz's translation for Naruto to be very accurate. I dont know how good the German translation company is, but IIRC its been confirmed a few times by people who actually read the manga that he does move at or above light speed.

Oh well, I havnt read the manga so I dont really know anything either way. Ive just heard two different things from different people so Im wondering where the discrepancy could come from. Then again, maybe its just one of those fanboy things where people try to make a character out to be waaaay more powerful then they actually are.

[tri-sapphire]

Is it possible something could be lost in translation though? I mean it is going from Japanese to German to English. For example I would NEVER trust Viz's translation for Naruto to be very accurate. I dont know how good the German translation company is, but IIRC its been confirmed a few times by people who actually read the manga that he does move at or above light speed.

Oh well, I havnt read the manga so I dont really know anything either way. Ive just heard two different things from different people so Im wondering where the discrepancy could come from. Then again, maybe its just one of those fanboy things where people try to make a character out to be waaaay more powerful then they actually are.

True, everytime I try to do a search on DS, lightspeed or photosonic speed faster than lightspeed, pops up.

Still, the manga evidence is here, so unless there are other instances of DS's speed in the manga, or other translations/sources out there, we'll have to stick with this for now.

[Genis-Vell]

Well I guess changes have to be made for DS in the power directory.

[Delta Shell]

Kinda like that time when it was revealed how "the Maestro's trophy room" was complete and utter bollocks.

[Scorpio3.14]

True, everytime I try to do a search on DS, lightspeed or photosonic speed faster than lightspeed, pops up.

Still, the manga evidence is here, so unless there are other instances of DS's speed in the manga, or other translations/sources out there, we'll have to stick with this for now.

Well I have the actual japanese raw of that page, but not being able to speak Japanese myself I cant translate lol

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4215/bastard22415rf.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4215/bastard22415rf.jpg

Perhaps someone can get it translated? Its not the greatest quality but its the best I got.

[Yak]

Interesting, so the facts are finally out.

I wonder how it got started that DS could go faster than lightspeed though? Is there anything from the manga that could lead to this?

Do you also have the volume with Uriel's release in it? I think that's where the whole "blowing up galaxies" thing originated from.

And one more thing: I've heard it mentioned that one of the devils survived an attack from a spear with enough power to destroy the universe in one shot. And that Dark Schneider defeated him. True?


Well, since I have to trust the German translators because I can't get any Japanese scans at hand, I have to say yes, the rest except the lightspeed thingy is true.

The lightspeed issue was probably a misread, you can easily slip from "colliding several thousand times in seconds at soundspeed" to lightspeed instead. Well, the rest has probably been overrated with the time as DS's powers mainly spead via mouth like a myth because there are only a few people out there who have Bastard!! scans or even own the manga.

Yes, I have the volume with Uriel's release in it, it's the same my scans are from, no. 22. DS doesn't literally show a power that could blow up the universe but Raphael states that the powers of the Judas Pain would be great enough to destroy a galaxy (that's not quite the universe, right? :amuse) and whoever uses the Judas Pain becomes a destroyer with trancendand powers.

In exchange for those powers, the master of the Judas Pain suffers from incomprehendable mental, emotional, spiritual and physical pain. If Judas Pain is used for to long it rips its user apart, consuming his body and soul. (that hasn't happened yet to DS, after his fight against Uriel only his arm was wounded but it's arguable whether this injury is from the fight or a reaction of the Judas Pain).


And one more thing: I've heard it mentioned that one of the devils survived an attack from a spear with enough power to destroy the universe in one shot. And that Dark Schneider defeated him. True?

That would be in volume 20, Archangel Uriel fights against Konron, a middle to low class devil. Normally pancake for an Archangel, they'd kill such devils without breaking a sweat. The problem at hand is, however, that Konron has an angel implanted inside his body and he's able to cast "Void Howling" - the cry of an angel. It nullyfies all white magic attacks, rendering even Archangel-powers useless. Uriel is in deep shit. Furthermore it's revealed that the implanted angel happens to be Uriels sister. He goes all out in this fight and is forced to kill his own sister in order to break throught the defense of Konron.

In the process he starts questioning the motives and justice of the allmighty God and claims that he does not want a justice that is based on sacrificing the own servants and those who are loved by them. It leads to his fall and he becomes a fallen angel.

Anyway, point is, in this fight Uriel uses his spear Gungunil, manifestation of the Earth (According to Dante, Uriel is the angel of earth and underworld, he's the judge that decides which soul goes to hell and which not? Could be wrong though.). However, Gunguni's "Heaven's Cry" attack has the power to break the limits between dimensions (namely between the physical world and hell or heaven, depending on your location on earth) and it furthermore has the power of a nova. Nothing along the lines of destroying the universe in one blow. It can blow up a star, yes, but not the universe.


I think I'll provide some scans later if needed. Hope, that answers some questions.

[Arazial]

Hm... well this certainly nerfs D.S. alot. It's confusion like this that makes me wish I had the rest of the Bastard! manga translated in English. Got Volumes 1-11 on graphic novel form. And volumes 10-23 chinese translated on the computer. Some are pretty good quality, especially volume 23. I'm still interested in exactly what D.S. can and cannot do though. It'd be nice if get someone out there wanted to start a Bastard! translating project. :wink

Regardless D.S. is still awesome as shown by a few random pictures here.
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0434zk.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5774/image0440fl.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0601jg.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0614he.jpg

[Yak]

Hm... well this certainly nerfs D.S. alot. It's confusion like this that makes me wish I had the rest of the Bastard! manga translated in English. Got Volumes 1-11 on graphic novel form. And volumes 10-23 chinese translated on the computer. Some are pretty good quality, especially volume 23. I'm still interested in exactly what D.S. can and cannot do though. It'd be nice if get someone out there wanted to start a Bastard! translating project. :wink

Regardless D.S. is still awesome as shown by a few random pictures here.
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0434zk.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5774/image0440fl.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0601jg.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0614he.jpg

You got the chinese volume 23!? Can you upload it somewhere?! I don't care if I can read it I just HAVE to get my hands on it! Please, pretty pretty please! God damn, I've been looking for forever to find stuff from volume 23 but always failed!

[Arazial]

You got the chinese volume 23!? Can you upload it somewhere?! I don't care if I can read it I just HAVE to get my hands on it! Please, pretty pretty please! God damn, I've been looking for forever to find stuff from volume 23 but always failed!

Here ya go. Not sure how long it'll last, so get it while it's hot.
http://rapidshare.de/files/19587604/BastardVol23.rar.html

[Yak]

Yeah...yeah...YEAH! Ahahaha... :cry This is a dream come true... thank you so much... really.. I'm so happy right now, one of my favourite mangas is having its revival... I never ever thought I could get my hands on this after such a long time of searching...

[CrazyMoronX]

This is like the Maestro Hulk "trophy room" all over again! :amazed

So, what about his strength? It was said before in the OB that his normal attacks split planets apart.

Is that true?

[Yak]

Well, his punches are capable of nuclear fission, that's the only thing I can say...

He could probably do it but its never been stated somewhere in canon so I wouldn't count planet-splitting as a fact.

[CrazyMoronX]

Well, his dispel bound is still a force... I can't think of many people that would be able to break it down.

[kapsi]

ANTI-GAS .

[Keollyn]

Well I still think he can reach speeds exceeding lightspeed.. at least action/reaction speeds.

The thing is that they're COLLIDING at several thousand times sound speed, and Darshu can, and will beat Uriel, so if the other information is correct, this is the equation I've come up with.

Using all minimum, we should have a formula of (343 * 4000) * 200. This formula came from sound in air times several thousand (several can range from 4+) multiplied by the number of shields (lowest) that Darshu would have to override. Since I recall somewhere saying that the shields are constantly being repaired close to the users speed (here I might need confirmation). Since we know that Darshu WILL beat Uriel, we can come to the conclusion that he will be fast enough to overcome Uriel's speed and override his shield. This formula equates to 274,400,000 m/s AT THE MINIMUM.

Now this is just a hypothesis, so I'm not preaching that this is accurate. Just my thought on the matter. Oh and I'm an math illiterate. Anything wrong in my equation (besides it as a whole), blame it on that.

[konflikti]

"...because they collide with sound-speed and ultra-powered punches several thousand time within seconds"

The translation is rather vague. It could mean that they collide each other with sound-speed and punches happen several thousand times. It could mean that they both collide each other thousands of times within seconds and hit each other thousands of times within seconds. I don't think it means that the punches are sound speed though. It could off course also mean what OP was thinking(probably does since he did the translation?).

Thus, I request more info. I think we need someone to translate it directly from japanese to get the real meaning. Otherwise it is debatable to no end.

[Scorpio3.14]

"...because they collide with sound-speed and ultra-powered punches several thousand time within seconds"

The translation is rather vague. It could mean that they collide each other with sound-speed and punches happen several thousand times. It could mean that they both collide each other thousands of times within seconds and hit each other thousands of times within seconds. I don't think it means that the punches are sound speed though. It could off course also mean what OP was thinking(probably does since he did the translation?).

Thus, I request more info. I think we need someone to translate it directly from japanese to get the real meaning. Otherwise it is debatable to no end.

I agree. Thats why Im trying to find someone to translate that page from the Japanese raw. Hopefully if/when I find someone it will clear some things up. If anyone happens to know someone who can read and translate Japanese here is the page again lol

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4215/bastard22415rf.jpg

[Delta Shell]

This is like the Maestro Hulk "trophy room" all over again!

Yep! First thing I thought too, I love it when stuff like this happens.

[Shiron]

I agree. Thats why Im trying to find someone to translate that page from the Japanese raw. Hopefully if/when I find someone it will clear some things up. If anyone happens to know someone who can read and translate Japanese here is the page again lol

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4215/bastard22415rf.jpg And it seems that ocean has responded to your request:

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=3656.msg53340#msg53340
Not satisfied with my own English, but bah:


That light
is generated through the collision of <destruction> and <formation> in the Spell Barriar,
which, those two are processing with their abilities beyond your imagination
while moving at extremely high speed and shooting thousands of hard blows in a second
that even surpasses explosion of the nucleus...!!


You gotta replace "Spell Barrier" with whatever the correct terminology is.

[Genis-Vell]

So I guess the Ocean's translation left us inconclusive:(

[Kaki]

I'd say to be invisable it would be at least supersonic.....

that even surpasses explosion of the nucleus...!!
Not bad.....

[Scorpio3.14]

So I guess the Ocean's translation left us inconclusive:(

Well I wasnt expecting it to say he was faster then light or anything like that, its just the whole "sound-speed" thing sounded weird to me and it seems it was not in there in the origional Japanese version but added in the German version.

So while it dosnt confirm that he is as fast as light, I also atleast partially debunks the origional evidense as to why he isnt faster then light.

All it seems to say is that they are colliding with the strength of nuclear bombs thousands of times a second WHILE continuesly rewriting the other's sheilds and repairing their own at speeds beyond imagination.

[Genis-Vell]

Well All I know is that, DS is now accessible for matches.

[Kaki]

Don't mess with the D.S.

[Yak]

Well I wasnt expecting it to say he was faster then light or anything like that, its just the whole "sound-speed" thing sounded weird to me and it seems it was not in there in the origional Japanese version but added in the German version.

So while it dosnt confirm that he is as fast as light, I also atleast partially debunks the origional evidense as to why he isnt faster then light.



Well, at least this was more or less explained now with the original being translated. I'm sorry for any wrong information I might've taken from this but in the German translation it literally says soundspeed. Well, I didn't translate it, so it was obviously a translation mistake made by Carlsen Comics who were in charge of publishing the manga over here.

Unfortunately this brings us back to the point that DS's and Uriels speed was not literally mentionned and is up to interpretation again. "Extremely high speed" could nearly be anything on a scale from sound- to light-speed. :amuse

All it seems to say is that they are colliding with the strength of nuclear bombs thousands of times a second WHILE continuesly rewriting the other's sheilds and repairing their own at speeds beyond imagination.

Well, this is still more than enough to make Dark Schneider a force to reckon with. :P

[Scorpio3.14]

Well, at least this was more or less explained now with the original being translated. I'm sorry for any wrong information I might've taken from this but in the German translation it literally says soundspeed. Well, I didn't translate it, so it was obviously a translation mistake made by Carlsen Comics who were in charge of publishing the manga over here.

Oh, I in no way blame you for mistranslating, I just know how bad some English companies can bucher a manga translation so I wanted to check. Thanks for bringing this up though, we have been taking all this DS stuff as fact even though none of us have actually read the manga (mainly because its not translated to english and just generally hard to find). Unless there is other evidense to this I think its stupid that we have been assumeing DS goes like 100x the speed of light or something like that. Thanks for clearing this up, this thread really needed to be made because not a lot of people know the facts about Dark Schneider, me included unfortunatly lol

Unfortunately this brings us back to the point that DS's and Uriels speed was not literally mentionned and is up to interpretation again. "Extremely high speed" could nearly be anything on a scale from sound- to light-speed. :amuse

ya, unfortunatly this is true of a lot of manga. DBZ is an example, we really have no idea how fast these people really are and people have spent a lot of time debating this (includeing me lol)

Well, this is still more than enough to make Dark Schneider a force to reckon with. :P

Definatly, Dark Schneider is not someone you want to mess with :P

[Rice Ball]

His Speed was one of his Abilitys, i deffo thing people thought his Magic and Dispel Bound were worse. Thats a great scan of how the dispel bound works :)

Nothings getting through that :)