"Ninjas can't dodge bullets"

[Reznor]

Any thread in which a ninja and a gun are involved, a large number of people will instantly assume that there is no way in hell that a ninja could win.

The reasoning behind this claim is because "ninja's don't move at the speed of sound" or the Kishi interview.

The fallicies of this, however:
Kishi said that for his reasoning for not introducing guns in the Narutoverse. Guns would simply unbalance combat as individual prowess would be less of a factor.
Kawarimi
You need to move the speed of sound (bullet speed) to dodge a bullet anymore than you need to move the speed of train to dodge a train.
"Dodge" could mean "avoid line of fire" or "dodge while the bullet is mid-air".

Most ninja couldn't do the later. I beleive they could do the latter though.

And the #1 factor:
Ninjas are fucking ninjas. They don't run straight at you and rely exclusively on overt combat.

Even if the person is so good with a gun that it makes approach impossible (despite the use of diversions), ninjas have tools and jutsu.

[GSurge]

Still, he said it. You can choose to ignore what the creator of the manga said, but that's making up your own rules. If you can do that, then anything goes.

[Dulos]

I think some ninjas could easily win a gun fight. If they have good replacement/clone techniques, they would have a great shot. Genjutsu could mess with the gunshooter's aim. Gaara has some big defense for a bullet, so GL there.

If Naruto did TKB and had hundreds of clones, the gun user would run out of ammo before getting the real target. Also, bullets don't do so well through dirt, so underground fighting would be an advantage. Neji could spin the bullets away. A little chakra to redirect the bullets would be hard, but possible.

Attaching a chakra string to the gun to continually move it just off target would be yet another way to deal with it.

[Delta Shell]

Yeah, you can't really deny what Kishimoto said but it's still a weird situation.

I mean, would you say Rock Lee is faster than Captain America? I would, yet Captain America has dodged bullets that were already in flight.

My answer to this is that bullets are as inconsistent as black holes when it comes to comic books.

(It's true that actually tagging a moving naruto ninja with a bullet would be super hard given how fast they move).

[Reznor]

Another point I forgot to add, normal people can't dodge shurikens and kunai's thrown by ninja.
Still, he said it. You can choose to ignore what the creator of the manga said, but that's making up your own rules. If you can do that, then anything goes.
Even so, pay attention to the other points.

And I'm not ignoring that he said it

A: I haven't really made up those specific rules, so there may be airplanes and some other vehicles, but absolutely no guns. Bullets fly at supersonic speeds, so there's no way that your shuriken could compete. As for computers, maybe, but they'd be low-processing computers. He only said that shurikens can't compete.

When a ninja throws a shuriken at an undestracted ninja, it is dodged easily. Adding guns would just negate the need for distraction and make shirken throwers useless.

Aiming a gun requires that you are able to move the gun so that they are in the line of fire.

Ninja's could kill other ninja's with guns - but then it would just be another gunfight.

He meant that guns change the dynamics of combat to something that isn't what he is going for. Note that he said this in response to asking about the "rules of Naruto"

Note that since then though, Kishi introduced High-levels of ninjousity, exploding notes and other things.

[Scorpio3.14]

For the purpose of this thread can someone please post the actual interview? The actual wording of the question and answer has been distorted so many times by so many people Ive forgotten how it actually went.

Anyways, I completly agree with Reznor. You dont have to be faster then a bullet to avoid being hit by a bullet. Its not about absolute speed, its more about quick acceleration which Naruto ninja and most shounen characters have. If you can move faster then the eye can see/process or they can react to then you can easily beat someone with a gun, dosnt really matter how much faster you are beyond that point.

[Id]

I just think, Ninjas can react faster then a shooter can pull the trigger.
That’s because they are trained to read body language better then an average person.

But if the Nin is surrounded by 3 shooters from different angels, and the Nin is "unaware" he surrounded. That Nin is so screwed.

Also, you do not have to move at the speed of a bullet to leave after images.
In fact, if you move at the speed of a bullet, you simply vanish out of thin air.
(Come on, whens the last time you actually saw a bullet when fired; leaving after images.)

The perception of speed, plays a role in this as well, and an average person compared to a Nurato Nin, has a poor perception of speed.

[Scorpio3.14]

Is this the interview in question?

- Do you have any rules about what is definitely not allowed to be drawn in the
"Naruto" world?

K: Firstly, projectile weapons such as guns aren't allowed. (The one exception
is Inari's bowgun.) Guns aren't suited to ninja. Gunpowder is used in the anime,
though I don't think it should be there. And, vehicles such as aeroplanes are
not allowed. I try to restrain technology that can be used for war... For
example, if missiles were in it, it'd be the end. (laughs)

source: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~pazuzu/uzumaki.txt

This is what I remember reading but like I said before people have distorted it so much that I dont even know if everyone is talking about a different interview.

If this is in fact the interview in question, I dont get where people got that Kishi said that Ninja can dodge bullets or whatever. If you read the interview he was talking more about the "feel" of Konoha and that the thinks guns and aeroplans dont suit Ninja's. It would ruin the feel of things. For example, who needs Ninja when you can just launch missles at your neighboring village.

[Delta Shell]

Hmm from that and this quote:

A: I haven't really made up those specific rules, so there may be airplanes and some other vehicles, but absolutely no guns. Bullets fly at supersonic speeds, so there's no way that your shuriken could compete. As for computers, maybe, but they'd be low-processing computers. (cheers Reznor)

I don't think there's much evidence that Shinobi absolutely cannot dodge bullets at all really.

[Scorpio3.14]

@Delta Shell. Can I ask where you got that? It was quite easy for me to find the other interview on Google but I cant seem to find the one you posted. You know where it is from?

[Delta Shell]

Heh, Reznor posted it above.

[Scorpio3.14]

Heh, Reznor posted it above.

Haha, my bad. I missed that part of Reznor's post. Sorry.

Anyways, @Reznor: Where did you get that quote? Is there anyway I can get a source for that Interview? I just like to get context and stuff like that.

[Reznor]

I just think, Ninjas can react faster then a shooter can pull the trigger.
That’s because they are trained to read body language better then an average person.

But if the Nin is surrounded by 3 shooters from different angels, and the Nin is "unaware" he surrounded. That Nin is so screwed.For the most part, yeah.

That's why I believe he didn't include guns.

Guns makes sneak attacks too lethal. Ninja sneak attack like mad.

Also, you do not have to move at the speed of a bullet to leave after images.
In fact, if you move at the speed of a bullet, you simply vanish out of thin air.
(Come on, whens the last time you actually saw a bullet when fired; leaving after images.) What are you talking about?

Noones played the "disappear = light speed" card yet.

Anyways, @Reznor: Where did you get that quote? Is there anyway I can get a source for that Interview? I just like to get context and stuff like that. I googled bullets ninjas kishimoto and it took me to Narutofan.

[Id]

What are you talking about?

Noones played the "disappear = light speed" card yet.


I said nothing about light speed, only speed of sound.
(Since the Naruto Nin’s are being compared to the speed of bullets)

I have the feeling you misunderstood my post.

My point is, you don’t have to move at the speed of sound to leave after images.
You can wave your own hand back and for it can leave after images. (how fast it that.)

But if you actually look at a bullet when its shoot, our perception of speed is so low we cant keep up.
To a regular person, its completely naked to the human eye. And it does not leave after images.


We have no Idea how fast the Naruto Nin’s move, but they don’t have to move faster then sound to leave after images.

That’s the point I was trying to get across.

Kapish?

[Scorpio3.14]

I googled bullets ninjas kishimoto and it took me to Narutofan.

I did the same and I didnt find anything.

[Reznor]

I said nothing about light speed, only speed of sound.
(Since the Naruto Nin’s are being compared to the speed of bullets)

I have the feeling you misunderstood my post.

My point is, you don’t have to move at the speed of sound to leave after images
You can wave your own hand back and for it can leave after images. (how fast it that.)

But if you actually look at a bullet when its shoot, our perception of speed is so low we cant keep up.
To a regular person, its completely naked to the human eye. And it does not leave after images.


We have no Idea how fast the Naruto Nin’s move, but they don’t have to move faster then sound to leave after images.

That’s the point I was trying to get across.

Kapish? Oh okay.

[Guy Gardner]

Dodge bullets? No, I'd legitmately say that's pretty impossible. They simply aren't fast enough.

But make themselves unhittable? Well, that's a jutsu of a completely different color!

[Id]

Oh okay.

Good thread BTW.

The speed issue comes up in many battles.

In Bleach vs Naruto thread. the fight is dismissed instantly, simply because the Bleach character seem much faster then the Naruto characters.

I can under stand More Powerful.

I can under stand, well they are spirits so you cant see or hit them.

But the speed issue, is not clearly define in both mangas. For all we know, they move really fast.

Here let me ask question?
Who moves faster? Itachi or Seta Sōjirō?

[Reznor]

Here let me ask question?
Who moves faster? Itachi or Seta Sōjirō?
I haven't caught up to Bleach. I'm only at episode 25 or so.


Dodge bullets? No, I'd legitmately say that's pretty impossible. They simply aren't fast enough.
The point of the thread is that people take that to mean that possessing a gun = ability to kill any ninja instantly.

I'd say that some ninja may have a chance to dodge a bullet mid-air.

Of all Naruto characters, I'd say that Itachi is the most likely: He is fast, has the sharingan's semi-pre-cog-detection-or-whatever and he works with projectiles alot so has an intuitive grasp of tragetories.

Sasuke maybe as well, for the same reasons.

But Gai and Lee, not so much. If they wanted to not get hit, they whould move pre-firing to avoid LoS.

But make themselves unhittable? Well, that's a jutsu of a completely different color! Right, in the time it takes most people to pick up the gun, point it and shoot it and Ninja could have readied a kawarimi or just killed the person trying to do it (in addition to numerous other options)

[Tsunayoshi]

I haven't caught up to Bleach. I'm only at episode 25 or so. I think you got confused here. Seta Sojiro is from Rurouni Kenshin, not Bleach.

[Reznor]

I think you got confused here. Seta Sojiro is from Rurouni Kenshin, not Bleach.
I guess that my statement contained more information than I intented as to what I'm up-to-date with.

[Quoll]

In theory Seta Soujiro should be faster since he was shown to be fast enough to run up walls and on the ceiling during his 2nd battle w/ Kenshin. Of course we have no real basis for comparison in Naruto since they can just use chakra for those feats.

[CrazyMoronX]

I've always held on to the notion that ninja can easily avoid gunfire. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out, just look at how quickly the average ninja moves.

In real life, if someone is trying to shoot you, you can avoid being shot, by moving around unpredictably, and getting lucky. And we can't move as fast as ninja.

Also, ninja use stealth. You're dead before you even get a chance to use a gun, sorry gunslingers.

[uncanny_sama]

uhm ofcourse ninjas can dodge bullets..

their ninjas not human

duh :notrust

[Gooba]

Guns makes sneak attacks too lethal. Ninja sneak attack like mad.A sneak attack with a thrown kunai is even deadlier. Hell, I can do a sneak attack with my arms which is equally deadly as shooting someone in the back of the head.

[Yamato]

Maybe there are no guns 'cause Kishimoto hate campers? Imagine a ninja camper who is slowly and constantly eliminating all other ninjas in the village.

[Reznor]

A sneak attack with a thrown kunai is even deadlier. Hell, I can do a sneak attack with my arms which is equally deadly as shooting someone in the back of the head.
I don't mean "deadly" as in that it can kill you. Konohamaru can kill Kakashi if Kakashi stops feeling the need to dodge/avoid kunai.

I mean that it adds an element to sneak attacks that isn't in Naruto.

If a kunai is thrown at you, you can react a detect and dodge it mid-air. If they've pulled the trigger, you are dead.

Sneaking up requires even more stealth and can be avoided mid-attack as well.

[Masaki]

I'm a gunner on TheSato. The "Explosion Note Cannon" works surprisingly well.

I also quit the site because it sucks.

[Gooba]

I don't mean "deadly" as in that it can kill you. Konohamaru can kill Kakashi if Kakashi stops feeling the need to dodge/avoid kunai.

I mean that it adds an element to sneak attacks that isn't in Naruto.

If a kunai is thrown at you, you can react a detect and dodge it mid-air. If they've pulled the trigger, you are dead.Aah, ok, and I completely agree.

[The Space Cowboy]

Kishimoto wouldn't do guns in Naruto because it would significantly alter the flavor of the mangaverse. With that said, Naruto ninjas would have a relatively easy time dealing with firearms.

Take Sharingan for instance. Obscenely awesome-good motion tracking. You don't have to dodge bullets, you just have to avoid having the gun barrel pointed at you--which is ridiculously easy when you have eyes like that.

The same goes for Byakugan. You don't have to deal with dodging bullets. You just have to avoid having the gun pointed at you, and be faster than their trigger squeeze, a la Remo Williams.

It'd be plausible for a reasonably quick shinobi to deal with this even if they don't have the Sharingan or the Byakugan. They don't have to be faster than a speeding bullet. They just have to be faster than -you-

[uncanny_sama]

Maybe there are no guns 'cause Kishimoto hate campers? Imagine a ninja camper who is slowly and constantly eliminating all other ninjas in the village.


OMG imagine that :omg

ninja campers we would all be doomed if that ever happend

[Gooba]

Nobody in the OB objects to Batman/Batgirl being able to dodge bullets, with human speeds and reflexes, so why is it hard to think superhuman ninjas couldn't?

[Kira Yamato]

Nobody in the OB objects to Batman/Batgirl being able to dodge bullets, with human speeds and reflexes, so why is it hard to think superhuman ninjas couldn't?

That's the part that has me scratching my head. I mean Batman and Batgirl are normal humans who have been known to dodge bullets but Ninja's with above average stregth and abilities can't?

I know Bat man has been put on a pedestal in most OB match-ups but in this issue..it kind of seems unfair that a normal human can but ninja's with above average abilities can't.

[Reznor]

I love the meta-battledome. <3

It lets me deal with a bunch of threads at once instead of arguing each one.

[Mrs.Uchiha]

Ninjas don't have to dodge bullets. They can block them with their swords.:)

[Gooba]

I love the meta-battledome. <3Me too, this place is awesome.

[Id]

Damn you mods, the Meta Battledome killed my OB Regulas/Seniors thread.

[Delta Shell]

Seriously, Gai coud definately dodge the same bullet that Captain America did.

Bullets are obscene jobbers.

[Reznor]

Damn you mods, the Meta Battledome killed my OB Regulas/Seniors thread. Haha. We'd been planning the Meta-BDome for awhile :p

Maybe I'll let you have a secret lair......

Seriously, Gai coud definately dodge the same bullet that Captain America did.

Bullets are obscene jobbers. Hmmm...... not everything is speed v speed.

Speed is to perception as strength/power is to durability.

A grapple is a strength v. strength, but a punch is a strength v. durability.

Similairly, avoiding is speed v. speed, but dodging is speed v. perception, for the most part. (It's a shaky comparison, but it kinda gets the point across.)

[Fenix]

Any thread in which a ninja and a gun are involved, a large number of people will instantly assume that there is no way in hell that a ninja could win.

The reasoning behind this claim is because "ninja's don't move at the speed of sound" or the Kishi interview.

The fallicies of this, however:
Kishi said that for his reasoning for not introducing guns in the Narutoverse. Guns would simply unbalance combat as individual prowess would be less of a factor.
Kawarimi
You need to move the speed of sound (bullet speed) to dodge a bullet anymore than you need to move the speed of train to dodge a train.
"Dodge" could mean "avoid line of fire" or "dodge while the bullet is mid-air".

Most ninja couldn't do the later. I beleive they could do the latter though.

And the #1 factor:
Ninjas are fucking ninjas. They don't run straight at you and rely exclusively on overt combat.

Even if the person is so good with a gun that it makes approach impossible (despite the use of diversions), ninjas have tools and jutsu.


So basically you choose to ignore what the author himself have clearly stated, and make up your own rules from what you have seen...

Also, from what we have seen, the majority of Naruto ninjas do just run at you....only sneaky ninjas we've seen are Zabuza and a few guys from the fillers.

If kishi says Narutoverse nins can't cook fried chicken, then it means they can't. No matter how many fried-chicken-like food he draws in the manga, you cannot say they are fried unless he changes his mind later.

Interesting question though

How strong do yall think the Narutoverse would be in the Battledome if Kishi never said that?

[Delta Shell]

Reznor, Captain America is stated to be a normal human but at the absolute best a human can be (i.e. not on Naruto levels, more like the better than the best olympic athlete at every event, like Batman).

The bullet he dodged had already been fired before he dodged, his dodge/reflex speed must be incredible in that case but I refuse to believe that Gai in that same situation could not do that.

Firemaw, we've already seen two excerps from the interview, nowhere does Kishi actaully say that the nins can't dodge bullets.

[Guy Gardner]

When Kishi states that guns would unbalance things, I think he's thinking about Ninjas USING guns.

I mean, one of them would have to realize that guns are more effective and reliable and efficient than Kunai. Soon they'd all have them, and how fun would it be to watch them just endlessly fire bullets at each other rather than using cracked-out jutsus?

Kishi didn't want guns because guns would unbalance ninja combat, not ninjas vs. other guys.

[Reznor]

So basically you choose to ignore what the author himself have clearly stated, and make up your own rules from what you have seen... I presented the quote and didn't deny it, only everyone's interpretation of it. Several of my other points still stand even if they can't dodge bullets.

Reznor, Captain America is stated to be a normal human but at the absolute best a human can be (i.e. not on Naruto levels, more like the better than the best olympic athlete at every event, like Batman).

The bullet he dodged had already been fired before he dodged, his dodge/reflex speed must be incredible in that case but I refuse to believe that Gai in that same situation could not do that. I was just saying that Gai is the Naruto example used because of his raw speed. I was pointing out that raw speed isn't the most important factor.

[Delta Shell]

I was just saying that Gai is the Naruto example used because of his raw speed. I was pointing out that raw speed isn't the most important factor.

Oh okay, swap it with Itachi or whatever, it's probably a better example because of the Sharingan's perceptive abilities.


When Kishi states that guns would unbalance things, I think he's thinking about Ninjas USING guns.

I mean, one of them would have to realize that guns are more effective and reliable and efficient than Kunai. Soon they'd all have them, and how fun would it be to watch them just endlessly fire bullets at each other rather than using cracked-out jutsus?

Kishi didn't want guns because guns would unbalance ninja combat, not ninjas vs. other guys.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[Reznor]

When Kishi states that guns would unbalance things, I think he's thinking about Ninjas USING guns.

I mean, one of them would have to realize that guns are more effective and reliable and efficient than Kunai. Soon they'd all have them, and how fun would it be to watch them just endlessly fire bullets at each other rather than using cracked-out jutsus?

Kishi didn't want guns because guns would unbalance ninja combat, not ninjas vs. other guys. Pretty much says my point of this.

[Danchou]

Still, he said it. You can choose to ignore what the creator of the manga said, but that's making up your own rules. If you can do that, then anything goes.Too damn true. Why people want to argue against such "facts" is beyond me.

[Delta Shell]

Too damn true. Why people want to argue against such "facts" is beyond me.

Oh? What exactly did he say? Have you read any of the posts since that one?

Although the quotation marks have me all suspicious..my sarcasm detector is unfortunately on the blink.

[Reznor]

Oh? What exactly did he say? Have you read any of the posts since that one?

Although the quotation marks have me all suspicios..by sarcasm detector is unfortunately on the brink. It hopefully is sarcastic because I've had to deal with the "you can choose to ignore facts" point twice already before that.

[Jio]

My personal opinion is in one on one and even 10 on 10 they would get hit by gun fire, they can most likely move faster than people aim, they have jutsu to actually go under the ground and let the earth block gun fire, they could even use water blast to intercept.

I dont think they would get shot in a one on one fight, if they were surronded by many people they would have to use jutsus.

[Reznor]

Yeah, one v. one is different that 100 v 100.

One hundred generic soldiers would beat one hundred generic ninja.
One generic soldier would not beat one generic ninja.

But then you have jutsu and such.... yeah...

[Dulos]

OK... I agree with posters that say the guns comment was really targeted at Ninja v. Ninja battle, as a non-ninja using a kunai against a ninja would be no where near as effective as a ninja using the same kunai.

After watching FFIV - Advent Children, I was much less impressed with the gun-toting Sephiroth-clone than the swordsplaying ones. All the gun fighter had to do was keep firing and somehow reload (even though you never saw it).

I saw nothing in the interview details that stated specifically that ninjas could not "dodge" bullets, whether in flight or not. Think of how many people were taken out by the Yellow Flash in an instant. Machine guns couldn't even do that.

Just my two sense. I do like this thread a lot. Makes peeps really consider their position, lol.

[Dulos]

In the second movie, the big ship in the beginning of the water fight had cannons, which are really big guns. Gaara was able to survive that attack and keep his buddies alive.

I guess that means that ninja's can at least dodge/survive cannon balls, if not bullets.

[Masaki]

After watching FFIV - Advent Children

...Do you even know Roman Numerals?

[Mukuro]

I just think, Ninjas can react faster then a shooter can pull the trigger.
That’s because they are trained to read body language better then an average person.I agree with Id.

This is the key to a ninja dodging a bullet.Kishi didn't want guns because guns would unbalance ninja combat, not ninjas vs. other guys.And on the ninja vs ninja perspective, I side with this opinion.

[Dulos]

...Do you even know Roman Numerals?

SO sorry... I meant FFVII - Advent Children, ok? I guess my point was so well made only the non-point details could be criticized, lol.

Have I done this correctly, lol?
I = 1
V = 5
VII = 7 (not IV, which is 4)
X = 10
L = 50
C = 100
M = 1000

[Blitzomaru]

First of all, I hate when people try to use two different mediums to determinet he answer to something. Comic books and manga are two different entities. I agree that characters like Captain america and batman cannot dodge bullets. I also believe that ninja cannot dodge bullets. Here's a little story:

I've been in the army for 6 years now. My platoon Sergeant is an army sniper. On his first tour he shot an Iraqi suicide bomber who was driving a sedan filled with explosives going at over 95 mph. He took one shot and got him in the head. He could've played it safe and took his one shot to a tire since it wasn't in a populated area, but he's a sniper, and he could shoot your dick off form 500 meters away. He took the shot and killed the bomber. Now that is an experienced person taking out a moving target. now if a ninja was running at about 95 mph, then a sniper of his level would have no problem taking him out. Now, I'm an above average shot and since we had a large amount of vehicle born Improvised Explosive devices (VBIED's) during convoys we were told if a civillian car got too close, give them a warning shot in the hood of their car. If they persisted, one through a tire or window. Well, we were patrolling when a convoy was going through Tikrit. A VBIED bomber came barreling down the street. We could see him going down the street, driving a jalopy with new tires (which is a good indicator of a VBIED), with no intention of stopping, so Me and my buddy went for his tires before it got near us. I shot 5 rounds and my buddy shot 3. The tires blew, the car went into another car and exploded. It was a good 200-250 meters in front of us when it went off. We caught some shrapnel, but nothing bad. And that was 2 average/above average soldiers firing at a moving target. Now, I get to fire maybe 4 times a year, and I'm great at tracking moving targets. And I haven't had great training. I just learned the 4 fundamentals of marksmanship and I shoot every now and then. Now if a person was going to kill ninja, they would get special training on how to fight them, which would make them better shots than I or my Platoon SGT. There are hunters who can take down deer and bears with no problem cause they train themselves on where to shoot when that animal is moving or stationary, and that is no different. So tracking a moving target is not that difficult.

#2. If guns are introduced, then all types of guns would be introduced. Gattling guns, 50 cal's M249 SAW's, grenade launchers, Anti-tank rockets, RPG's, grenades, mortars, missiles, and countless other weapons. The heavy artillery would make trying to sneak around usleless, as it would destroy the landscape.

#3.Manga spoiler=Zetsu or Neji + sniper rifle = dead nin.

[Reznor]

I've been in the army for 6 years now. My platoon Sergeant is an army sniper. On his first tour he shot an Iraqi suicide bomber who was driving a sedan filled with explosives going at over 95 mph. He took one shot and got him in the head. He could've played it safe and took his one shot to a tire since it wasn't in a populated area, but he's a sniper, and he could shoot your dick off form 500 meters away. He took the shot and killed the bomber. Now that is an experienced person taking out a moving target. now if a ninja was running at about 95 mph, then a sniper of his level would have no problem taking him out. Raw speed means little for this.

Weaving skillfully at a few mph is more effective than moving in a line at a hundred.

Not saying that snipers wouldn't be a problem, but that's too simplistic of a view.

[Kisame]

Nope ninjas cant dodge bullets reaction speed is very slow.


1. Gai couldnt get out the way of Kisame's sword (too shocked? either way would have died)

2. Iruka got nailed by all those kunai's in the beginning of the series going nowhere near bullet speed.

3. The Kisame clone saw Gai's Kick coming and still couldn't dodge it. He's one of the fast ones and couldn't react to a kick.

[Roy]

of course ninjas cant doge bullets there not fast enough

[lekki]

Look, a ninja can probably dodge a bullet fired by some random goon.
A ninja can't dodge a hail of gunfire the way say Spiderman can because the human body isn't strong enough to move that fast.

Captain America stated that he avoids gun-fire because he can actually see faster than bullets fly giving him more time to use his shield or duck or whatever he does to stay alive.

So yeah, you can give Itachi 1 bullet, but machine gun clip>>>>>>>>>>>>than he is.

[Scorpio3.14]

A ninja can't dodge a hail of gunfire the way say Spiderman can because the human body isn't strong enough to move that fast.

Then how does Spiderman do it? Last time I checked his body was still human...

[EvilMoogle]

Then how does Spiderman do it? Last time I checked his body was still human...
Er, Spider-man can lift 15ish tons and jump several stories.

That's not "normal human" in my book ;)

'Course, it might be "normal ninja" which is the question. I would think at least the advanced ninja could dodge bullets with resonable success, but would fall to numbers. But if guns exist even the ultra-elite would have to at least worry about them, which is why they don't.

[lekki]

Then how does Spiderman do it? Last time I checked his body was still human...
And for further clarification, I'm not talking about withstanding it.
Spiderman is the only person who can pull off actual poses when swinging on a line, others can simply swing. Anytime an artist draws Batman or Daredevil or whoever pulling off a pose while swinging, it's jobber time.

Spiderman can survive going through a wall, a ninja would simply go splat on the wall, stuff like that.

Spiderman can move at the speeds required to dodge multiple bullets continuosly while people like Captain America can't, but they can get out of the line of fire. Big difference.

[Gooba]

Then how does Spiderman do it? Last time I checked his body was still human...I assume the last time you checked was before the whole radioactive spider bite incident, because after that day he bacame a super hero.

[Scorpio3.14]

Er, Spider-man can lift 15ish tons and jump several stories.

That's not "normal human" in my book ;)

Yet Ninja do things waaaay outside the bounds of "normal humans" too. Tsunade lifting Gamabunta's sword anyone? Or Jiroubu picking up giant Chouji. Those are way over 15 tons.

Spiderman can survive going through a wall, a ninja would simply go splat on the wall, stuff like that.

Did you read the Naruto vs Sasuke fight? They were being thrown into the sides of mountains and came out perfectly fine. Happened again in the Naruto vs Deidara fight too.

Spiderman can move at the speeds required to dodge multiple bullets continuosly while people like Captain America can't, but they can get out of the line of fire. Big difference.

But ninja constantly are show to move at speeds far surpassing what Spiderman is capable of. Spiderman cant move faster then the eye can see and instantly appear behind people, Spiderman cant punch someone dozens of times a second, Spiderman can't leave after images, etc... Yet somehow he is fast enough to dodge bullets while Naruto ninja, who are portrayed as faster, cant. Why is that?

I assume the last time you checked was before the whole radioactive spider bite incident, because after that day he bacame a super hero.

That dosnt make him any less human, just not an ordinary human. Would you classify Kidōmaru, Sakon, Ukon, Orochimaru, Kimimaro, Yoroi, and other Naruto characters as ordinary humans? They are atleast as abnormal as Spiderman, if not more so.

Spiderman's body is still human. As Beast would say, "If you prick him, does he not bleed?" :P

[Reznor]

Nope ninjas cant dodge bullets reaction speed is very slow.


1. Gai couldnt get out the way of Kisame's sword (too shocked? either way would have died)

2. Iruka got nailed by all those kunai's in the beginning of the series going nowhere near bullet speed.

3. The Kisame clone saw Gai's Kick coming and still couldn't dodge it. He's one of the fast ones and couldn't react to a kick. Those are all ninja v. ninja things though.

[CrazyMoronX]

Flash got hit by beings much slower than him, and way slower than a bullet, it's a manga/comic, they have to get hit for story purposes.

[lekki]

Yet Ninja do things waaaay outside the bounds of "normal humans" too. Tsunade lifting Gamabunta's sword anyone? Or Jiroubu picking up giant Chouji. Those are way over 15 tons.
Not really, these are all jutsus so we have no idea if Chouji actually weighs as much as he seemed to weigh.
Same way there's a difference between Naruto digging through the ground and when Kakashi does a doton and it seems to have exactly the same effect, it's a jutsu.
There are differences.



Did you read the Naruto vs Sasuke fight? They were being thrown into the sides of mountains and came out perfectly fine. Happened again in the Naruto vs Deidara fight too.

A cliff face can be anything from granite to clay. For all we know, those were clay cliff faces. Regardless, no one went through anything as much as they were slammed into them.
Also, concrete>>> regular rock on account of the steel that usually resides in them.


But ninja constantly are show to move at speeds far surpassing what Spiderman is capable of. Spiderman cant move faster then the eye can see and instantly appear behind people, Spiderman cant punch someone dozens of times a second, Spiderman can't leave after images, etc... Yet somehow he is fast enough to dodge bullets while Naruto ninja, who are portrayed as faster, cant. Why is that?
Ninjas are constantly shown at speeds that surpass the human eye.
Spiderman moves faster than the eye can see when he needs to.

You think they're following his movements when he's dodging full machine gun fire?

Another example of relative speed is in Kenshin where guns are allowed. Notice how his god speed suddenly fails him when confronted with a firing squad?
It's because there's a difference between burst speed, quickness and actual speediness.
They aren't moving at speeds that surpass all human belief, they are moving in a fashion that makes it hard for the eye to follow i.e. fake left but go right instead really quickly.



That dosnt make him any less human, just not an ordinary human. Would you classify Kidōmaru, Sakon, Ukon, Orochimaru, Kimimaro, Yoroi, and other Naruto characters as ordinary humans? They are atleast as abnormal as Spiderman, if not more so.
By this logic, the X-men are all regular humans and the Juggernaut is a regular human. Just really abnormal.
Clearlt this doesn't work...

Spiderman's body is still human. As Beast would say, "If you prick him, does he not bleed?" :P
If you prick Superman hard enough, he bleeds aswell, same with all the Wonderwomen, Flashes and so on. Yet it would be foolish to consider them as regular people with a little something extra special.

I can't even believe you're getting into such semantics when it has no real bearing on anything.

[Azure-kun]

I dont get it. . . why the fuck would kishimoto Underestimate his Own Manga?

[Reznor]

I dont get it. . . why the fuck would kishimoto Underestimate his Own Manga? So that it surpasses him through hard work.

[Scorpio3.14]

Not really, these are all jutsus so we have no idea if Chouji actually weighs as much as he seemed to weigh.
Same way there's a difference between Naruto digging through the ground and when Kakashi does a doton and it seems to have exactly the same effect, it's a jutsu.
There are differences.

The Jutsu would be completely useless if it didnt increase Chouji's mass. Plus Tsunade picking up Gamabunta's sword wasnt a jutsu.

Even so, Jutsu = a superhuman act. With Chakra, ninja in Naruto can do a wide array of superhuman activities that is outside of what a normal human body can do. Its stupid to say that since they are human they cant travel at speed needed to dodge a bullet. Is Zoro from one piece human then?


A cliff face can be anything from granite to clay. For all we know, those were clay cliff faces. Regardless, no one went through anything as much as they were slammed into them.
Also, concrete>>> regular rock on account of the steel that usually resides in them.

Youve obviously never taken Geology. That was definatly not clay, not even close. Clay would have been weathered away years ago for one thing.

Walls arnt that thick generally, Sasuke was slammed into the side of that cliff and went into the cliff way beyond what the average thickness of a wall is. Like this:
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9315/narutoch232p052kl.png

He went into that mountain many times further then the thickness of a wall and he was completely fine afterward.

Also, how about this?
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1766/naruto117085ng.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7697/naruto117096al.jpg

No, "Splat". Ninja are atleast as tough as Spiderman is, if not more so I would say.

Spiderman moves faster than the eye can see when he needs to.

Like when? When does Spiderman move at speeds similar to how ninja are portrayed on a regular basis? Im not a spiderman expert, but Ive read my fair share of Spiderman comics, both newer and older from when I was a kid. Spiderman is fast, but Ive never seen him portrayed as dissappearing from someone's view and then instantly appearing behind them or moving faster then the eye can see in a fight.



Another example of relative speed is in Kenshin where guns are allowed. Notice how his god speed suddenly fails him when confronted with a firing squad?

Good example, supporting mine and Reznor's point though :P Kenshin in his series beats people with guns all the time. IIRC that french guy in the beginning slew a ton of armed guards before then could pull the trigger. In the first Volume Kenshin cut a freaking canon ball in half in midair as it was coming right at him while his sword was sheathed when the ball fired (Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4258/rk004167wz.jpg) and Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5107/rk004176uc.jpg)). In the second volume of Kenshin, a guy suddenly pulls a hand gun out on Kenshin and he catches the bullet in the side of the hilt of his sword(Here (http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/7854/rk007138ya.jpg) and Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9108/rk007141te.jpg)). In the 3rd Volume 10 guys with guns were all set up to fire at Kenshin quite a distance away and right as soon as the guys says "Fire!" Kenshin disarms all of them knocking them to the ground and running past them(Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2974/rk021135jo.jpg)). Do I need to go on with the rest of the manga????

Correct me if Im wrong Reznor, but this is the point of this thread. People like Kenshin, who are not faster then a Bullet, can beat people with guns and even dodge bullets in a sense because of their extreme reflexes and fast movement. I dont see why Ninja could not do the same thing. Lekki, you seem to think just because Ninja are "human" that its impossible for them to dodge bullets, however Kenshin could do it. Plus I can show you many more manga where others humans can do it. One Piece, Flame of Recca, HxH, DBZ, etc...

By this logic, the X-men are all regular humans and the Juggernaut is a regular human. Just really abnormal.
Clearlt this doesn't work...

No, if you listen to what I said, I said they were NOT regular humans, but they were still human none the less. Come on Lekki, Marvel spent YEARS pounding this into our heads with the mutant registration act. Mutants are humans, just different from you or I. Atleast in the Marvel world :P

[Suzumebachi]

Even so, Jutsu = a superhuman act. With Chakra, ninja in Naruto can do a wide array of superhuman activities that is outside of what a normal human body can do. Its stupid to say that since they are human they cant travel at speed needed to dodge a bullet. Is Zoro from one piece human then?

They use chakra to enhance speed all the time, and can still only barely dodge things that move slower than bullets. People get hit by kunai and punches and etc.

[mortsleam]

No human can really dodge a bullet lol.
But some fights a ninja can win, matter the ninja or the gunsman. But Id rather have a gun than a arrow or Kuneis. But swords kick ass.
]But a narutouniverse never losses.l

[Insipidipity]

I don't know if this has been said explicitly or just implicitly but even if Ninja's can dodge bullets, the power of a gun would make normal humans close enough to shinobi level to really damage the advantage they have. Imagine Zabuza running through that crowd of gangsters if they all had Uzis...

[Kisame]

They use chakra to enhance speed all the time, and can still only barely dodge things that move slower than bullets. People get hit by kunai and punches and etc.

Or sasukes encounter with Itachi in the hall way if he would have aimed it and shot with a tec9 instead of using chidori..... would have had a cold one -liner as well....

Sasuke: How's that for hatred, nii-san
Kisame: WtF he killed Itachi, you bastard

[Envy]

Spiderman can dodge bullets because of enhanced relfexes, enhanced flexibility and he's a fucking spider.

[Reznor]

They use chakra to enhance speed all the time, and can still only barely dodge things that move slower than bullets. People get hit by kunai and punches and etc. You are just looking at the speed of a projectile.

A kunai thrown at an aware unencumbered target never hits in Naruto. Combat is not that simplistic.

[Suzumebachi]

You are just looking at the speed of a projectile.

A kunai thrown at an aware unencumbered target never hits in Naruto. Combat is not that simplistic.

Iruka got hit by kunai, Zabuza got hit by kunai, Thrid Hokage got hit by a flying sword, Rain guy got hit by a kunai, Naruto and Sasuke got hit by a bunch of needles, Shikamaru got hit by needles AND shuriken, Sakon got hit by kunai, Genma and Radiou got hit by a buttload of kunai and shuriken, and probably many more including Kabuto. I'm not sure about Kabuto, maybe.

[Kisame]

I'm not sure about Kabuto, maybe.

Kabuto used his headband to block it because he couldn't dodge but his movements were back 80%

80% Kabuto couldnt dodge a few needles.

[Reznor]

Iruka got hit by kunai, Zabuza got hit by kunai, Thrid Hokage got hit by a flying sword, Rain guy got hit by a kunai, Naruto and Sasuke got hit by a bunch of needles, Shikamaru got hit by needles AND shuriken, Sakon got hit by kunai, Genma and Radiou got hit by a buttload of kunai and shuriken, and probably many more including Kabuto. I'm not sure about Kabuto, maybe. You are missing the point. All of those are sneak attacks or the person is stunned or something. (Haku's required Sasuke to be in the mirrors. Haku was efffectively faster, so we don't know if the needles simulated "bullet speed")

I don't think that there is a single time when someone just plain old throws a kunai at an aware, capable target and he can't dodge?

Kabuto used his headband to block it because he couldn't dodge but his movements were back 80%

80% Kabuto couldnt dodge a few needles. No, he had an 8/10 of an idea of what would move when he tried to move something. That's much less.

And once again, notice that Shizune throw them from her mouth. The whole point of the is the concealment. That made it so Kabuto did expect it until the last minute.

You're trying to tell me that a paralyzed ninja avoiding a sneak attack at the last moment speaks badly about them? That speaks in their favor. Resourcefulness is what a ninja is all about, but people overlook that in favor of "how fast does a ninja run?"

[Kisame]

I don't think that there is a single time when someone just plain old throws a kunai at an aware, capable target and he can't dodge?

They saw them coming. they couldn't move in time. if they couldn't dodge those even the fastest ninjas would get hit with bullets.

[Reznor]

They saw them coming. they couldn't move in time. if they couldn't dodge those even the fastest ninjas would get hit with bullets. Yes, I admit that 99% of ninjas can't dodge bullets mid-air going towards them.

Ninjas fights would be alot different with guns, because they'd need cover.

But if they knew the shot was coming and were unencumbered, they'd easily avoid it.

[Kisame]

But if they knew the shot was coming and were unencumbered, they'd easily avoid it.

Well if thats what the whole point of this thread is I agree lots of people can make sure they dont get hit with bullets and dont even have to be fast.

Dodging bullets makes it seem like you say they have vash/spiderman abilities.

[Reznor]

Well if thats what the whole point of this thread is I agree lots of people can make sure they dont get hit with bullets and dont even have to be fast. Yeah, that's basically it.Too many judge a ninja just by raw statistics (running speed, carrying capacity, etc.)I'm saying there's more to it than that.

Do you agree that no ninja is hit by a non-sneak attack when they are unencumbered?

Dodging bullets makes it seem like you say they have vash/spiderman abilities. I think Itachi might be able to, just because speed and perception are his things.

[Kisame]

I think Itachi might be able to, just because speed and perception are his things.

Yeah that could be possible.


Do you agree that no ninja is hit by a non-sneak attack when they are unencumbered?



I agree because the speed to get out of the path of an object doesn't need to be that fast. But theres no way I can see Naruto ninjas seeing a bullet coming and using there speed to get out the way.

If they know guns shoot bullets and aimed at them they can move before the gun fires.

[lekki]

The Jutsu would be completely useless if it didnt increase Chouji's mass. Plus Tsunade picking up Gamabunta's sword wasnt a jutsu.
Not true, being a shinobi is about misdirection aswell as actual skill.
He can make it seem like he's gained weight but it could be something else entirely.

Even so, Jutsu = a superhuman act. With Chakra, ninja in Naruto can do a wide array of superhuman activities that is outside of what a normal human body can do. Its stupid to say that since they are human they cant travel at speed needed to dodge a bullet. Is Zoro from one piece human then?
The Onepiece universe has always been exaggerated. That old man in the great library got shot in the gut and was still able to get up.
People can't do that, no matter how strong they are. They have 20 minutes tops and then it's over.
And even then, using the chakra point, they move in bursts of speed, not at speed. So most characters won't be able to dodge a hail of bullets from the get go. People like Gai and Lee would be the only survivors.



Youve obviously never taken Geology. That was definatly not clay, not even close. Clay would have been weathered away years ago for one thing.

Walls arnt that thick generally, Sasuke was slammed into the side of that cliff and went into the cliff way beyond what the average thickness of a wall is. Like this:
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9315/narutoch232p052kl.png

He went into that mountain many times further then the thickness of a wall and he was completely fine afterward.

Also, how about this?
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1766/naruto117085ng.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7697/naruto117096al.jpg

No, "Splat". Ninja are atleast as tough as Spiderman is, if not more so I would say.
As a mechanical engineer working in an oil company that amongst other things, drills into the ground, I'd say I have more experience in geology than you do:P
And by your logic, all blades in Naruto are actually black since they are portrayed that way.

Artist wanted to depict a cliff, didn't specify what kinda cliff it was and I can't believe you're trying to argue that a cliff face is stronger than concrete anyway.



Like when? When does Spiderman move at speeds similar to how ninja are portrayed on a regular basis? Im not a spiderman expert, but Ive read my fair share of Spiderman comics, both newer and older from when I was a kid. Spiderman is fast, but Ive never seen him portrayed as dissappearing from someone's view and then instantly appearing behind them or moving faster then the eye can see in a fight.
I'm really sorry that I don't have a scan from a particular issue of spectacular Spiderman.
Maybe someone else can help out with this. It was 1-2 years ago and Humberto Ramos took over art for Spidey.
It stated that to Spiderman with his Spidersense on, everything is in slow motion, so when they shoot at him, he's not even where they were shooting at anymore to begin with (after image anyone?)





Good example, supporting mine and Reznor's point though :P Kenshin in his series beats people with guns all the time. IIRC that french guy in the beginning slew a ton of armed guards before then could pull the trigger. In the first Volume Kenshin cut a freaking canon ball in half in midair as it was coming right at him while his sword was sheathed when the ball fired (Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4258/rk004167wz.jpg) and Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5107/rk004176uc.jpg)). In the second volume of Kenshin, a guy suddenly pulls a hand gun out on Kenshin and he catches the bullet in the side of the hilt of his sword(Here (http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/7854/rk007138ya.jpg) and Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9108/rk007141te.jpg)). In the 3rd Volume 10 guys with guns were all set up to fire at Kenshin quite a distance away and right as soon as the guys says "Fire!" Kenshin disarms all of them knocking them to the ground and running past them(Here (http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2974/rk021135jo.jpg)). Do I need to go on with the rest of the manga????

Correct me if Im wrong Reznor, but this is the point of this thread. People like Kenshin, who are not faster then a Bullet, can beat people with guns and even dodge bullets in a sense because of their extreme reflexes and fast movement. I dont see why Ninja could not do the same thing. Lekki, you seem to think just because Ninja are "human" that its impossible for them to dodge bullets, however Kenshin could do it. Plus I can show you many more manga where others humans can do it. One Piece, Flame of Recca, HxH, DBZ, etc...
But the manga doesn't capture motion the way the anime did.
And a cannonball isn't nearly as fast as a bullet btw.
I'll also admit that my Kenshin example come from the anime and in the anime, his ass suddenly gets turtlized whenever a gun is present.



No, if you listen to what I said, I said they were NOT regular humans, but they were still human none the less. Come on Lekki, Marvel spent YEARS pounding this into our heads with the mutant registration act. Mutants are humans, just different from you or I. Atleast in the Marvel world :P
Read Marvel currently and you'll find even the X-men refering to regular humans as 'humans'.

I think what you mean to say is that they are all homo-sapiens. They are more than human though but they're of the same species. Like a tiger and a lion are both cats and can breed with each other but that doesn't make a lion a tiger.

[Reznor]

Not true, being a shinobi is about misdirection aswell as actual skill.
He can make it seem like he's gained weight but it could be something else entirely.


The Onepiece universe has always been exaggerated. That old man in the great library got shot in the gut and was still able to get up.
People can't do that, no matter how strong they are. They have 20 minutes tops and then it's over.
And even then, using the chakra point, they move in bursts of speed, not at speed. So most characters won't be able to dodge a hail of bullets from the get go. People like Gai and Lee would be the only survivors.




As a mechanical engineer working in an oil company that amongst other things, drills into the ground, I'd say I have more experience in geology than you do:P
And by your logic, all blades in Naruto are actually black since they are portrayed that way.

Artist wanted to depict a cliff, didn't specify what kinda cliff it was and I can't believe you're trying to argue that a cliff face is stronger than concrete anyway.




I'm really sorry that I don't have a scan from a particular issue of spectacular Spiderman.
Maybe someone else can help out with this. It was 1-2 years ago and Humberto Ramos took over art for Spidey.
It stated that to Spiderman with his Spidersense on, everything is in slow motion, so when they shoot at him, he's not even where they were shooting at anymore to begin with (after image anyone?)






But the manga doesn't capture motion the way the anime did.
And a cannonball isn't nearly as fast as a bullet btw.
I'll also admit that my Kenshin example come from the anime and in the anime, his ass suddenly gets turtlized whenever a gun is present.




Read Marvel currently and you'll find even the X-men refering to regular humans as 'humans'.

I think what you mean to say is that they are all homo-sapiens. They are more than human though but they're of the same species. Like a tiger and a lion are both cats and can breed with each other but that doesn't make a lion a tiger.
^ Ultimate post

I'm going to go masturbate to it now.

[Scorpio3.14]

Not true, being a shinobi is about misdirection aswell as actual skill.
He can make it seem like he's gained weight but it could be something else entirely.

And yet he would cause this much enviromental damage by falling even though his lbs/in^2 was decreased dramatically? Really, I dont know where you are getting that his mass didnt increase, it would really make the jutsu pointless. That and all indications in the manga (look at the damage he caused to the ground when he fell) indicate that he weighs much more then he normally does.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter189.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1476

Either way its kinda pointless since we still have Tsunade's strength feet that is faaaaar greater then normal human capabilities. Face it, Naruto ninja =/= normal humans.

The Onepiece universe has always been exaggerated. That old man in the great library got shot in the gut and was still able to get up.
People can't do that, no matter how strong they are. They have 20 minutes tops and then it's over.

Well ya, most manga and comics contain exaggerations of normal human ability. Comics do it all the time like Daredevil, who dosnt have superstrength, lifting a limo or Batman and Captain America avoiding barrage of bullets from machine guns. However, that dosnt change the fact that in that particular fictional world, humans are capable of it even though in our real world they may not be. Humans in the real world =/= humans in the Naruto world nor many other fictional worlds in manga and comics.

And even then, using the chakra point, they move in bursts of speed, not at speed. So most characters won't be able to dodge a hail of bullets from the get go. People like Gai and Lee would be the only survivors.

You only really need a quick burst of speed to dodge/avoid a bullet. Running speed, or speed you can keep up for a long period of time dosnt really matter when we are talking about dodgeing bullets. It has a lot more to do with reaction time then actual speed.

As a mechanical engineer working in an oil company that amongst other things, drills into the ground, I'd say I have more experience in geology than you do:P
And by your logic, all blades in Naruto are actually black since they are portrayed that way.

Artist wanted to depict a cliff, didn't specify what kinda cliff it was and I can't believe you're trying to argue that a cliff face is stronger than concrete anyway.

There is no reason to believe that cliff was made of clay. In fact, geologically it is highly unlikely that it was composed of clay. I never stated myself to be a geologist or anything, but even I know that it couldn't have been composed majorily of clay. Clay erodes away really fast, on a steep cliff face like that any clay that was there would be long gone after a few rainy seasons. Plus you dont make monuments, like those two ninja, out of highly clay rocks since it wouldnt last very long and would erode fast.

So basically, no evidense that it was clay. Logic and how the artist portrayed the rocks supports that it wasnt. Also I never said it was harder then concrete, I said it was much thicker then an average concrete wall. Going through 6 inches of contrete < going through 6 feet of granite. Also the strength of granite (which is a likely material for that cliff face) isnt that far off of typical residential strength concrete.

I'm really sorry that I don't have a scan from a particular issue of spectacular Spiderman.
Maybe someone else can help out with this. It was 1-2 years ago and Humberto Ramos took over art for Spidey.
It stated that to Spiderman with his Spidersense on, everything is in slow motion, so when they shoot at him, he's not even where they were shooting at anymore to begin with (after image anyone?)

Spidersense is precognition though, its a lot easier to dodge a bullet when you know where its going to be before the bullet is even fired.

But the manga doesn't capture motion the way the anime did.

The manga is canon though, the anime is not. You dont really need to portray any more, a bullet was fired at Kenshin, he blocked it before it hit him and it was said that he could see the bullet in the air and react to it. Thats all you really need to know from that scene.

And a cannonball isn't nearly as fast as a bullet btw.

Well actually it depends, a cannonball can be fired faster then a bullet from a large cannon, but thats beside the point since I agree that the cannon ball Kenshin cut probably wasnt going that fast. However, it was still going extremely fast and atleast on the same order of speed as a bullet. Kenshin had no problem drawing his sword, turning it around, and cutting the ball perfectly in half so that it missed him all in the time it took the ball to reach him from the cannon.

I'll also admit that my Kenshin example come from the anime and in the anime, his ass suddenly gets turtlized whenever a gun is present.

Well ya, anime's have a tendancy to do stuff like that :P However in the manga, which is canon, Kenshin rarely had trouble with guns and dodged them on a regular basis.

Read Marvel currently and you'll find even the X-men refering to regular humans as 'humans'.

I think what you mean to say is that they are all homo-sapiens. They are more than human though but they're of the same species. Like a tiger and a lion are both cats and can breed with each other but that doesn't make a lion a tiger.

No, I ment human. Mutants are the next step in "human" evolution. Omega levels is the pinnical of "human" potential as set by the Celestials. Ect...

[Reznor]

^ Oh shit! That post is even better!

What now, lekki? You going to take that?

[Kisame]

^ Oh shit! That post is even better!

What now, lekki? You going to take that?


no instigating. bad reznor back in the pokeball for you :rezno

[Perfect Moron]

The manga is canon though, the anime is not. You dont really need to portray any more, a bullet was fired at Kenshin, he blocked it before it hit him and it was said that he could see the bullet in the air and react to it. Thats all you really need to know from that scene.


Keep in mind that's a 19th century gun, though, which means a much slower bullet. I don't think Kenshin could keep up with modern guns. Blocking the bullet means he probably couldn't dodge it.

[Blitzomaru]

From what I remember about kenshin, his Hiten Mitsurugi style is about reading opponents movements and countering them with the most effective means possible. It's how he can take out a roomfull of guys with one swing of his sword. He moves his sword in an arc that would cause the most damage to them. This means he knows where they are going to aim and swing. This can also be relating to firearms. Kenshin can probably assume where a person is aiming their weapon and block it before they've shot at him.

Spidey's spider-sense has been shown in many different ways, but over the years I've come to think of it as Goldilocks and the 3 little bears. Remember He can't turn off his spidey sense so it's always buzzing. When someone like the green Goblin comes up behind him it lets him know. The further he gets away from him the less it tingles. Now, this is where the Goldilocks part comes in. Remember the porridge being to hot, then too cold, then just right? I believe his spidey sense works in the same way. Since he fights by instinct and lets his spidey sense dictate his reactions, It probably moves his body until it arrives at a place that is 'just right'. So if a bunch of thugs shot 5 bullets at him, his spidey sense would be buzzing pretty intensly and his body would move away from that intense buzzing. He might move is arm in the air, but his spidey sense realizes that if he moved it too high he'd be in the path of another bullet, so it keeps his arm in the middle of the two paths, finding a middle ground between the two that felt 'just right'. Thus you have all the pictures of spidey in different poses as he avoids gunfire. And you can tell he's not doing it himself, cause he's cracking jokes the entire time.

[Phenomenol]

From what I remember about kenshin, his Hiten Mitsurugi style is about reading opponents movements and countering them with the most effective means possible.

Yes. Another example was that Soujiro the "Tenken" was way faster than kenshin but it did not matter because he can read and anticipate his movements no matter how fast.

Also this is a ridiculous thread. Naruto can dodge bullets hell Kakashi himself was able to cut a lightning bolt in two! You have to be extemely quick to accomplish such a thing. Ninja's can dodge bullets if need be.

[Kisame]

Also this is a ridiculous thread. Naruto can dodge bullets hell Kakashi himself was able to cut a lightning bolt in two! You have to be extemely quick to accomplish such a thing. Ninja's can dodge bullets if need be.

It could have been artificial Raiton induced Lightening grossly slowing down its speed.

[Phenomenol]

It could have been artificial Raiton induced Lightening grossly slowing down its speed.

This is highly false! this is not science class.

[Kisame]

This is highly false! this is not science class.

Yes your right. The lightening was slow because of chakra and stuff zOMG

[Gooba]

Kakashi himself was able to cut a lightning bolt in two!That doesn't even make sense. You can't "cut" a lightning bolt, it just isn't that kind of thing. It was just something to make him sound cool, it is completely meaningless.

[Phenomenol]

That doesn't even make sense. You can't "cut" a lightning bolt, it just isn't that kind of thing. It was just something to make him sound cool, it is completely meaningless.

I can tell you do not know what you are talking about! Especially whats in bold.

[Kisame]

I can tell you do not know what you are talking about! Especially whats in bold.

1. It was said by Gai and he feels himself equal to Kakashi. Of course he would boost the rep of Kakashi.
2. Secondly how would Kakashi cut through lightening? He would have to know it was striking to even attempt to "cut" it.

That makes it seem strongly that it had to be some raiton jutsu.

[Phenomenol]

. It was said by Gai and he feels himself equal to Kakashi. Of course he would boost the rep of Kakashi.
2. Secondly how would Kakashi cut through lightening? He would have to know it was striking to even attempt to "cut" it.

That makes it seem strongly that it had to be some raiton jutsu.

All wishful opinions and overanalyzation. None of this was said in the manga nor anime. What was said is that Kakashi cut a lightning bolt in two! Get over it.

[Kisame]

All wishful opinions and overanalyzation. None of this was said in the manga nor anime. What was said is that Kakashi cut a lightning bolt in two! Get over it.

never said bolt.

Just said lightening. Could have been ball or the other forms of lightening.

[Reznor]

Also this is a ridiculous thread. Naruto can dodge bullets hell Kakashi himself was able to cut a lightning bolt in two! You have to be extemely quick to accomplish such a thing. Ninja's can dodge bullets if need be. I think I see why people think you are my dupe now XD

Anyway, the point of the thread isn't to say that they can't dodge bullets, it's to combat the notion that anyone w/ gun > Ninja.

That doesn't even make sense. You can't "cut" a lightning bolt, it just isn't that kind of thing. It was just something to make him sound cool, it is completely meaningless. That means that Kakashi can do the impossible!!!1! :nuts

Though, I agree. I put that on the level with titles and prefixes like "unstoppable"

[Comic Book Guy]

Who was the one who told us?

Oh, right. It was GAI, who told us of the Chidori and Kakashi's Raikiri.

That, is not wishful opinion or overanalyzation. It's FACT.

[Gooba]

I can tell you do not know what you are talking about!Actually, as an electrical engineer I do. Lightning isn't like a very hot bullet, or something physical you can slice in 2. I know he must have at some point in his universe, but because it just makes no sense we can't use it to determine how well he could react to bullets.

[Phenomenol]

I think I see why people think you are my dupe now XD

Anyway, the point of the thread isn't to say that they can't dodge bullets, it's to combat the notion that anyone w/ gun > Ninja.

Cool!

That means that Kakashi can do the impossible!!!1!

Though, I agree. I put that on the level with titles and prefixes like "unstoppable"

How is that impossible. This is anime/manga it happens all the damn time. I hope you are being sarcastic which I believe you are.

That, is not wishful opinion or overanalyzation. It's FACT.

no it is not. Cause it was never stated in the anime. Kakashi cut lightning simple as that.

[Comic Book Guy]

When I said FACT, I was referring that Gai said it, not whether what he said was true. This was referring back to the wishful thinking/overanalyzation post.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

To add on, how can one actually cut lightning?

[Kisame]

I know deleted it. My bad.

[Phenomenol]

When I said FACT, I was referring that Gai said it, not whether what he said was true. This was referring back to the wishful thinking/overanalyzation post.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

My bad Comic Book Guy! I was the one who misunderstood. I am sorry.

To add on, how can one actually cut lightning?

Skill! This is anime anything can happen!

[Kisame]

Skill! This is anime anything can happen!


No it can't Kishimoto tries to maintain some science in his manga with kinda realistic physics.

[Comic Book Guy]

Anime is still governed by rules that shape and maintain the world. Anime physics and laws, if you will.

[Phenomenol]

No it can't Kishimoto tries to maintain some science in his manga with kinda realistic physics.

I do not think so.

Anime is still governed by rules that shape and maintain the world. Anime physics and laws, if you will.

Not at all. You are confused with the Marvel/DC world. Anime does not always go by logic or physics.

[Gooba]

Apparently not, because they said he cut lightning.

He might try to keep some realistic physics, but this is not one of those times. Luckally, the average 10-20 year old won't think to hard about it, and just think "Coooooool!"

[lekki]

I can't believe it's come to this.
If Kakashi is truly amazing enough to do something as amazing and imporbable as actually predicting where a lightning bolt was going to strike and then defying the laws of physics and reality by then cutting it in two(light isn't solid btw, and bolts don't actually come in halves either) then whenever another ninja sees Kakashi, they might aswell stab themselves in the heart because they'd have no chance.

On Kenshin, I'd say I agree more with Blitz's version as that's the way it was said in the anime and other known bullet dodgers do the same thing. A good example is Vash from Trigun. He also used the gun barrel trajectories to dodge bullets and didn't actually dodge the bullet themselves. He just wasn't there anymore.

I'd say most ninjas can't dodge bullets because almost all of them still visibly exert themselves when dodging kunais, in fact some get hit or grazed, even people with 360 degree vision like Neji who is no slouch in the speed department.

I'd say if he can't dodge a kunai 100% of the time, a bullet will do him in and if a bullet will do him in, that's atleast 99% of the Narutoverse going down with him.

Maybe if they actually had a working experience with guns in the first place and did training with regards to this, they'd stand a better chance.

[Gooba]

I'd say most ninjas can't dodge bullets because almost all of them still visibly exert themselves when dodging kunais, in fact some get hit or grazed, even people with 360 degree vision like Neji who is no slouch in the speed department.Great point, I'm convinced.

[Jio]

You have to remember with the kunais they are somewhat thrown is sequence where the thrower predicts where the person will next move, that being said you would be able to shoot the person down in that manner. But still something ive been thinking about, how much would a bullet actually hurt a ninja i mean they are somewhat stronger than normal human beings and all.

Cha, im out music exam.

[Reznor]

Apparently not, because they said he cut lightning.

He might try to keep some realistic physics, but this is not one of those times. Luckally, the average 10-20 year old won't think to hard about it, and just think "Coooooool!" My conclusion is that we don't know what they mean by "cut lightning".

Kishimoto tries to stay within science, so I'm assuming that they mean something else.

Gai isn't an electrical engineer, so he might have meant something else.

I'd say most ninjas can't dodge bullets because almost all of them still visibly exert themselves when dodging kunais, in fact some get hit or grazed, even people with 360 degree vision like Neji who is no slouch in the speed department.

I'd say if he can't dodge a kunai 100% of the time, a bullet will do him in and if a bullet will do him in, that's atleast 99% of the Narutoverse going down with him. No, they don't.

If Orochimaru said to a genin "I'm going to throw a kunai at you" and then did without concealing him movements or using a jutsu, the genin would dodge easily.

The reason why Orochimaru would beat a genin in a kunai fight is that he'd conceal his movements and layer attacks so that dodging one attacks leaves him open for a follow-up.

Neji was being attacked by hundreds of attacks and attacks calculated to avoid detection.

Though, a ninja with a gun > ninja with a throwing kunai (with few exceptions)

[lekki]

If Orochimaru said to a genin "I'm going to throw a kunai at you" and then did without concealing him movements or using a jutsu, the genin would dodge easily.

The reason why Orochimaru would beat a genin in a kunai fight is that he'd conceal his movements and layer attacks so that dodging one attacks leaves him open for a follow-up.

Neji was being attacked by hundreds of attacks and attacks calculated to avoid detection.

Though, a ninja with a gun > ninja with a throwing kunai (with few exceptions)
I'm sure this is true of any offensive move man.
Gun fighters don't usually stand erect and full frontal when firing at each other. There's a lot of duck and cover, bobbing and weaving e.t.c. involved.

Sure a ninja could take on a dude with a dillinger or some chick pistol. But bring out a desert eagle or glock and we're talking another ball game entirely.

The thing is, a kunai can be blocked with a pillow if timed right, same isn't true of bullets. I'm sure you've noticed this alot. Even Kakashi uses kunai's to block other kunai's and isn't doing his best Spiderman impression.
Penetrating power and force of impact, type of bullet used, these factors are all needed. Even caliber.

Is he really going to do that with bullets?

And as for Neji, so what if it was 300 kunai's. That intensity is just beginning to rival that of an ak47 clip being unloaded in your direction at 600 rounds a second going over twice the speed of sound.

Regular dude with a gun>ninja with kunai in a straight up fight. Mowing down bunshins would be child's play.

[EvilMoogle]

And as for Neji, so what if it was 300 kunai's. That intensity is just beginning to rival that of an ak47 clip being unloaded in your direction at 600 rounds a second going over twice the speed of sound.

Not quite a fair compairason. The 300 kunais were attacking from all around Neji in an attempt to blindside him. A single guy with a gun has to shoot bullets in a linear fashion. If you can dodge the first one the next 599 are going to be hitting VERY close to the same spot.

Though I agree, a ninja would be at a disadvantage vs. a guy with a machine gun. Though I'm not sure they'd lose all the time.

Case and point: Kawarimi.

Ninja anticipates the initial attack, and uses Kawarimi-no-jutsu. Guy with gun fires off his first few hundred rounds before realizing that he's shooting a log and has no idea where the ninja went. Ninja kills guy with gun with kunai before guy with gun can react.

[Perfect Moron]

How does the lightning "cutting" matter? If he had to deflect that lighting bolt, that means he couldn't dodge it. It would be unlike Kakashi to do it just to show off.

[Comic Book Guy]

Not at all. You are confused with the Marvel/DC world. Anime does not always go by logic or physics.

If any of the anime world has no rules or physics, then how can the world evn function? Everyone would be omnipotent, or the worlds itself would constantly fluctuate.

The physics is there, but does not necessarily have to adhere to the real-world physics.

Hammerspace, for example.

[lekki]

Not quite a fair compairason. The 300 kunais were attacking from all around Neji in an attempt to blindside him. A single guy with a gun has to shoot bullets in a linear fashion. If you can dodge the first one the next 599 are going to be hitting VERY close to the same spot.

Though I agree, a ninja would be at a disadvantage vs. a guy with a machine gun. Though I'm not sure they'd lose all the time.

Case and point: Kawarimi.

Ninja anticipates the initial attack, and uses Kawarimi-no-jutsu. Guy with gun fires off his first few hundred rounds before realizing that he's shooting a log and has no idea where the ninja went. Ninja kills guy with gun with kunai before guy with gun can react.
My question is why can't the guys with gubs be badasses aswell?
I don't think even I would shoot a log a couple of hundred times before realizing it isn't a ninja:amuse

And machine guns actually tend to not spray in a linear fashion on account of kick back when in full auto mode.

[EvilMoogle]

My question is why can't the guys with gubs be badasses aswell?
I don't think even I would shoot a log a couple of hundred times before realizing it isn't a ninja:amuse

Well, they can be, but that's a different story. As I understand it the point of the thread is to discuss "normal guy with gun vs. ninja".

Obviously a gun is better than a kunai, so if you take an elite person with a gun and train them to kill ninja they'll be successful at it.

And you quoted a gun with a rate of fire of 600 rounds per second, so if you react to stop firing after half a second you've already put 300 rounds into the log ;)

[Gooba]

No, they don't.

If Orochimaru said to a genin "I'm going to throw a kunai at you" and then did without concealing him movements or using a jutsu, the genin would dodge easily.

The reason why Orochimaru would beat a genin in a kunai fight is that he'd conceal his movements and layer attacks so that dodging one attacks leaves him open for a follow-up.

Neji was being attacked by hundreds of attacks and attacks calculated to avoid detection.Look at his fight vs Kido, that was as close to a sniper as we have seen, and Neji got his ass kicked by something way slower than a bullet.

[Reznor]

I'm sure this is true of any offensive move man.
Gun fighters don't usually stand erect and full frontal when firing at each other. There's a lot of duck and cover, bobbing and weaving e.t.c. involved.

Sure a ninja could take on a dude with a dillinger or some chick pistol. But bring out a desert eagle or glock and we're talking another ball game entirely.

The thing is, a kunai can be blocked with a pillow if timed right, same isn't true of bullets. I'm sure you've noticed this alot. Even Kakashi uses kunai's to block other kunai's and isn't doing his best Spiderman impression.
Penetrating power and force of impact, type of bullet used, these factors are all needed. Even caliber.

Is he really going to do that with bullets?

And as for Neji, so what if it was 300 kunai's. That intensity is just beginning to rival that of an ak47 clip being unloaded in your direction at 600 rounds a second going over twice the speed of sound.

Regular dude with a gun>ninja with kunai in a straight up fight. Mowing down bunshins would be child's play.

Look at his fight vs Kido, that was as close to a sniper as we have seen, and Neji got his ass kicked by something way slower than a bullet. Tragetory speed isn't the issue.

Kidomaru attacked from a conceal postition and did so in such a way that he would hit his blind shot. He also used a spray of kunais.

If Kido had a sniper rifle, though, Neji would be dead.

Like I said, guns > kunai, but ninja play is a huge factor in that. Opposed tactics make a huge differnce in Naruto.

(And you didn't address the point I made)

[lekki]

Actually, we did address the points, I've made two posts since your post to cover whatever anyone else hadn't covered.

What we need to clear up is who is shooting the gun.

A regular guy off the street who was taught how to release the safety and point barrel in desired direction?
Or Vash the stampede type gunman?

Or do we have a happy medium with the policeman on the street, someone of that skill level?

[Redux-shika boo]

Hmph!
I never bothered checking this thread till now.
It's interesting!

1st
The Bleach verses speed is completly beyond the Naruto verse.
This is both in speed percetion and raw speed.
I don't read the manga, and only watch the anime, however, I did once see a certain manga page. In this page, Byakuya is shown on top of some huge structure. Renji basically blinks, and Byakuya is behind him. The distance between Renji and Byakuya could be estimated between 1000-3000 feet.

2nd
Spiderman is superior in speed perception and dodging then anyone in the Naruto verse.

3rd
The Kenshin verse is equal to the Naruto Verse.
Kenshin, Sejiro, Enishi and Hiko have all shown speed burst, and sucessive ones at that. Moreover, Kenshin has the ability to predict and reads opponents prior to them even moving: ala sharigan.
Kenshin has shown jumping power somewhat close to Naruto ninja's as well.
Even the physical component of being able to take heavy damage is pretty equal. There are also extremly strong people in that verse, who have equally daunting strength feats. These stenrgth feats are comparable somewhat to Tsunade; not in lifting power, but in punching power.
The only real difference is that Naruto Ninja's have a certain body strength aspect, and have chakra at their disposal.
Now to the topic at hand.

In Rurouni Kenshin, Kenshin has caught a bullet at point blank range with his sheath. Kenshin has dodged gun fire. Kenshin has dealt with gun wileders. This is because kenshin can move in speed burst, and sucessively, has predivtive abilities, has great reflexes at or above peak human, and has raw sword drawing speed well beyond human capacity.

Naruto Ninja's of or around Lee with Gates in raw speed or better, have everything I have mentioned above except the predictive ability, and sword drawining one. Therefore, based on how well they anticipate the trajectory of the bullet, will depend on whether or not they dodge. If however the chars is already moving, and the shooter is not at a relatively decent distance, then Naruto nins can quite easily dodge gunfire. As long as the gun itself is not of the finer caliber, and does not have a good spread. In this case, it is the shooters slowness in pulling the trigger, the short distances and aim, being why they live. If any of these are not present Kenshin and Naruto nins die a horrible death. Both verses have speed perception above humans though. So it's still not easy.

-If you meant something along the lines of a sniper Renzor, then no both the Kenshin Verse and Naruto verse have no chance whatsoever of dodging.

-Cap has above human speed perception. A human cannot see a bullet moving. They can moe out of the way, but they dodge, if they move prior, but they cannot see the bullet moving.

-Batman has above human speed perception. I don't care what the comics want, if you write Batman in the Godly way he has been written, especially in the Jla comics, he can be said to have above human speed perception.

[Reznor]

Speed isn't the important thing in Naruto. Their speeds aren't as impressive as the skills, tactics and deversions they use.

In terms of feats, a jounin isn't much better than a genin typically, but the jounin will know what to do against the genin.
Actually, we did address the points, I've made two posts since your post to cover whatever anyone else hadn't covered.

What we need to clear up is who is shooting the gun.

A regular guy off the street who was taught how to release the safety and point barrel in desired direction?
Or Vash the stampede type gunman?

Or do we have a happy medium with the policeman on the street, someone of that skill level? The thread was about the issue of guns and ninjas in generally.

Skilled gunman I believe is debateable.

Typical soldier or average joe w/ gun, though, is pwned by a ninja.

[Phenomenol]

My conclusion is that we don't know what they mean by "cut lightning".

Kishimoto tries to stay within science, so I'm assuming that they mean something else.

Gai isn't an electrical engineer, so he might have meant something else

My conclusion to this post and the others, that all of you ignore direct facts and try to assume and overanalyze everything. It was said in the Manga and anime that Kakashi cut lightning.

Everyone here ignore's fact which is obviously ridiculous. Just because it is impossible in real life means nothing, in the anime world everything is possible!

[lekki]

Hmph!
I never bothered checking this thread till now.
It's interesting!

1st
The Bleach verses speed is completly beyond the Naruto verse.
This is both in speed percetion and raw speed.
I don't read the manga, and only watch the anime, however, I did once see a certain manga page. In this page, Byakuya is shown on top of some huge structure. Renji basically blinks, and Byakuya is behind him. The distance between Renji and Byakuya could be estimated between 1000-3000 feet.
True


2nd
Spiderman is superior in speed perception and dodging then anyone in the Naruto verse.

How so? You state this as fact without any back-up of any sort. Spiderman dodges bullets and knives everyday of his life. How is his speed perception any worse than the average shinobis?


3rd
The Kenshin verse is equal to the Naruto Verse.
Kenshin, Sejiro, Enishi and Hiko have all shown speed burst, and sucessive ones at that. Moreover, Kenshin has the ability to predict and reads opponents prior to them even moving: ala sharigan.
Kenshin has shown jumping power somewhat close to Naruto ninja's as well.
Even the physical component of being able to take heavy damage is pretty equal. There are also extremly strong people in that verse, who have equally daunting strength feats. These stenrgth feats are comparable somewhat to Tsunade; not in lifting power, but in punching power.
The only real difference is that Naruto Ninja's have a certain body strength aspect, and have chakra at their disposal.
Now to the topic at hand.

I guess.

-If you meant something along the lines of a sniper Renzor, then no both the Kenshin Verse and Naruto verse have no chance whatsoever of dodging.

-Cap has above human speed perception. A human cannot see a bullet moving. They can moe out of the way, but they dodge, if they move prior, but they cannot see the bullet moving.

-Batman has above human speed perception. I don't care what the comics want, if you write Batman in the Godly way he has been written, especially in the Jla comics, he can be said to have above human speed perception.
Captain America can see bullets just so you know. I know for a fact that Batman can't see bullets which is why he wears a vest and gets gunned down all the time.

JLA Batman is stupid I'm sorry to say. The only thing similar between him and regular Bat's is the personality. He actually is supposed to have taken a beating from a brainwashed Superman and lived?:notrust Yeah right.

After the first punch, he should've been a smear on the wall. gg.

But you know, your post didn't really edify the thread topic, just other issues that maybe in a roundabout way, refer to the topic.:(

[Green Lantern]

I've seen this thread, and I really can't be bothered replying to it, as I don't really debate much about Naruto characters anyways.

What I will say is that Ninjas can't dodge a bullet travelling at the speeed of light.

Or a bullet shot by Saint of Killers

Or a bullet shot by Lucky Luke.

That is all.



(Yeah yeah I'm trolling. But I've been around long enough to gain the privilege of writing bullshit posts :P)

[Reznor]

Or a bullet shot by Saint of Killers

Or a bullet shot by Lucky Luke.

That is all. Sure
What I will say is that Ninjas can't dodge a bullet travelling at the speeed of light. Depends on who's doing the shooting actually.

If your average joe is shooting it, then they'll hit a kawarimi or never get the ninja in their sights at all.

But if joe pulls the trigger with the ninja in his sights, he will be hit.

[EXhack]

Theory: a ninja cannot dodge bullets but can move faster than the shooter can follow with his aim. Has anyone ever played Halo on Xbox Live, there's allways that one hacker, who moves faster than the highest look sensitivity can follow. Either way, the "Ninjas can dodge bullets" statement is probably a missphrasing for, "Real ninjas never go into a gunman's line of fire".

NOTES: Bullets travel at about half the speed of sound, at light speed we'd be shooting lasers.

[Jio]

Still if a man brought out a machin gun couldnt the ninja just create a doton wall, or go under ground?

[lekki]

(Yeah yeah I'm trolling. But I've been around long enough to gain the privilege of writing bullshit posts :P)
...:mad



NOTES: Bullets travel at about half the speed of sound, at light speed we'd be shooting lasers. What the hell are you talking about?:mad
Most bullets travel atleast the speed of sound.

Alot travel at 2 times the speed of sound.:notrust

[Reznor]

at light speed we'd be shooting lasers. Yeah, a light speed bullet would destroy the universe and thus be undodgeable :laugh

[Kisame]

Yeah, a light speed bullet would destroy the universe and thus be undodgeable :laugh

They were shooting those in an xmen series. It was an electromagnetic rail gun that shot something at light speed or very near it.

The sentinels wound up adapting to it then jean gray unleashed the phoenix.

[Reznor]

They were shooting those in an xmen series. It was an electromagnetic rail gun that shot something at light speed or very near it.

The sentinels wound up adapting to it then jean gray unleashed the phoenix.Near light speed is fine.
Light speed is not fine. (for an object with mass to move by conventional means)

[Kisame]

Near light speed is fine.
Light speed is not fine. (for an object with mass to move by conventional means)

I dont have the comic anymore so I don't remember which :(

[HitokiriUchiha]

Actually, as mass gets close to light speed, it loses mass. With the size of a bullet, if it gets near light speed, then it would disintegrate before it reached its target.

I'm just going to reply to the thread name.

"Ninjas" can be taken into two sense: normal human ninjas, or Naruto-verse ninjas

Real ninjas cannot, no matter how much reflex/speed training they have, dodge a bullet.

No one knows whether ninja's in the Naruto-verse can dodge bullets except Kishimoto. IMO tho experienced jounin's like kakashi and higher can dodge bullets. They are that conditioned in both perception and burst speed and some have special abilities, such as ultra-perception. Even if there are 600bullets per second, as long as a nin reacts to the very first one, he/she can move a couple of meters out of the way and throw an explosive note at the same time. Someone using a gun that shoots that fast will probably not be able to react fast enough and get bombed. Also, most advanced nin's have kawarimi's set up beforehand or use bunshin's to do their work.

Try to hit Itachi with bullets and they will all burn up before him.

[Reznor]

Actually, as mass gets close to light speed, it loses mass. With the size of a bullet, if it gets near light speed, then it would disintegrate before it reached its target. No, it increases. Length is what decreases.

It's just that an object with mass would need infinte energy to get to c (and thus, would have infinite energy with c)

[Green Lantern]

So what about Lucky Luke's bullets?

He shoots faster then his shadow can shoot- wasn't there some formula someone came up with which calculated how bs that actually was?

[Havoc]

I think any skilled gunman in comicdom could kill naruto characters. This statement is broad and unconvincing but w/e.

[Spacey]

I just think, Ninjas can react faster then a shooter can pull the trigger.
That’s because they are trained to read body language better then an average person.

But if the Nin is surrounded by 3 shooters from different angels, and the Nin is "unaware" he surrounded. That Nin is so screwed.

Also, you do not have to move at the speed of a bullet to leave after images.
In fact, if you move at the speed of a bullet, you simply vanish out of thin air.
(Come on, whens the last time you actually saw a bullet when fired; leaving after images.)

The perception of speed, plays a role in this as well, and an average person compared to a Nurato Nin, has a poor perception of speed.

They wouldn't even know what a gun was they'd just stand there and look and be like oh what is that? Oh he is pulling some kind of trigger, oh I'm dead

[Reznor]

I never said that no one can kill a Naruto character with a gun, I was combating the notion that anyone with a gun can kill Naruto characters, which is an undertone in any thread with Naruto and guns just because of an overgeneralization of something Kishi said.

[Id]

Just wanted to add these numbers. (for reference)

Ms (meters per sec)

340 ms - mach 1
340 ms - speed of sound.
1 701 ms - mach 5
186,000 ms - lighting speed
299 792 458 ms speed of light.

[Arilou]

So what about Lucky Luke's bullets?

He shoots faster then his shadow can shoot- wasn't there some formula someone came up with which calculated how bs that actually was?

Actually, it's even worse than that. He "Draws faster than his own shadow".

[Code]

Just wanted to add these numbers. (for reference)

Ms (miles per sec)

340 ms - mach 1
340 ms - speed of sound.
1 701 ms - mach 5
186,000 ms - lighting speed
299 792 458 ms speed of light.

I don't think lightning has a set speed. I think it's supposably capable of moving up to half the speed of light, but the speed is usualy not that high.

[Kisame]

I don't think lightning has a set speed. I believe it's supposably capable of moving up to half the speed of light, but the speed might not be generally that high.


The maximum speed of lightning is around 160,000 m/s no where near half the speed of light.

[Endless Mike]

Actually, it's even worse than that. He "Draws faster than his own shadow".

Technically, anyone could draw faster than their own shadow, just not by much.

[Kisame]

Technically, anyone could draw faster than their own shadow, just not by much.

Lol I didn't even see that. yes everyone draws faster than there shadow as shadows fall after light hits your hand.

["Shion"]

I see we are talking about speed of light, and who draws faster from human to shadow. Well, since you guys already DID mention that you can draw faster that your shadow, and that speed of lightning is slower than speed of light, I can only comment on the lightning bit. Well, firstly, when lightning hits ground, we can not see the bolt coming down and causing the impact. And we cannot see light coming fro the bulb without the shine. What we see in lightning is the after image of the strike and the sound following after.

Have you ever wondered why we first see lightning come before the sound is made? Well, since we see it first rather than hear it, we can automatically assume that lightning travels faster than the speed of sound. But when we see a show on cars moving at that speed, we see the cars actually traveling it. We can also hear the sound following after. But do we see an after image? No, we just see the car and that is all. In lightning, we just see an after image of the strike. This is why it "fades" away after the sound is heard.

What we can not see in a lightbulb is an after image of the light. All we see is the shine appearing when we flick the switch or when we pull the rope down. We hear the sound activating at th exact same time as the light flashes. To all those who are reading and have NO idea on what I am trying to prove, is that lightning CAN move as fast as the speed of light. (I reall really hope I made this post clear!:nod)

[Kisame]

Lightening doesn't move the speed of light. The flash from lightening moves the speed of light.

["Shion"]

That is kind of what I had just finished explaining..... :nod

[Kisame]

That is kind of what I had just finished explaining..... :nod


The flash isn't lightning. The flash is light O.o

["Shion"]

The flash isn't lightning. The flash is light O.o
Actually, what you are referring to is the "after image" I talked about. That is the flash. The actual lightningis what I am referring to in this case. What is left behind is the light "rays" of the lightning following after the actual impact of lightning hitting earth in that split "thousandth second".:P :amuse These posts are getting good!:nod

[Kisame]

Actually, what you are referring to is the "after image" I talked about. That is the flash. The actual lightningis what I am referring to in this case.

Nothing is left behind. What you see is the flash reaching your eyes.


What is left behind is the light "rays" of the lightning following after the actual impact of lightning hitting earth in that split "thousandth second".:P :amuse These posts are getting good!:nod


Again light isn't left behind it travels in all directions hitting your retina. Lightening however is far slower than light so you can see the lightening while its occuring.

[Endless Mike]

I know one thing for sure: They can't dodge this guy's bullets!

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/saintkil.jpg

[Kisame]

whose that

[Id]

What we can not see in a lightbulb is an after image of the light. All we see is the shine appearing when we flick the switch or when we pull the rope down. We hear the sound activating at th exact same time as the light flashes. To all those who are reading and have NO idea on what I am trying to prove, is that lightning CAN move as fast as the speed of light. (I reall really hope I made