Japanese - "R"

[Fox of Konoha]

Ok, i've been teaching myself japanese using various books, tutorials, etc

(mostly speaking). The one thing I'm having the most difficult time doing is

pronoucing "r" in japanese. For different sources, they say it is bewteen an

english "l" and "r", but when I hear it spoken, it sounds either like a l , r, or even

a d sometimes. Any help would be appreciated. I've looked all over the net, and

like i said, they differ bewteen the english sounds l , r, and d to me. Could be

my hearing.

[Even]

in written Japanese, they have "r" and not "l". so foreign words that have "l" in it are written with "r" instead. example: Lisa = Risa. This is because R and L are very close in terms of sound, and then they don't have to have a whole set of signs for the letter L.
In spoken Japanese, they kinda mix. Sometimes it sounds like an R, and sometimes like an L. I dunno why, it may have something to do with dialect or how fast they're speaking.

[Fysh]

I think of the japanese "r" as a modification of the Spanish "r" (the one that's just a flip, not the rolled "r.")

It's where you position your tongue--there are 3 types of l: the kind at the beginning of a word, (a "light" l like in "light"), the kind at the end of a word (a "dark" or "dull" l, like in "ball") and in the middle of a word (like "yellow," I forgot what it's called.) Try saying those words and pay attention to where the tip of your tongue is; the sound you are going for in japanese is most like the "light" one at the beginning of the words. Try saying words that start with "l" but imagine you are starting them with "r" (like say "light" but in your mind say "right...") and you might be able to produce a sound somewhere between them by doing that.

I don't know how complicated that sounds, but hope it helps!

[Fox of Konoha]

Well, I decided to go look through some naruto anime, and as far as i can tell, it swtiches. Don't know if its the word or actors, thats y I'm asking. It's it personal dialects that determine the sound of the "r" or the word/location of the "r". For example, newest intro song seems uses an english sounding "r", while i noticed the "ra" in ramen sounded like a "la-men". Again, is it grammer or just personal pronunciation.

Edit: BTW, i love that LoR sig. Funniest thing i've seen in a while.

[Yoshitsune]

It's kind of difficult for it to sound perfectly right, if you know spanish, though, it helps since it's a light r sound u have to make and your tongue is key. Just place your tongue on your palette and try saying "la", but but more air into it. Don't roll your tongue on your palette or else i will sound like the english "rrr". Good luck, you'll get better with time though, don't worry.

[The Black Knight]

when saying an english r your tounge curls backwards hard. for a japanese r let it relax a little more and when speaking it let your tounge touch the area of your gums just behind your front teeth. Don't practice by just pronouncing the 'r' sound, but pronounce ra,ri,ru,re,ro.

[Fox of Konoha]

It's bugging the crap out of me. I try different sources and they give like 5 different tongue position and any like I said, audio differs from using a english "r", to "l" and even an english "d". For example, when I here "Naruto", it sound to be like a enlgish "r", or is that just me. But when I here "Ramen", it sounds like "Lamen" . It just bothering me cause I cant get past it. I've spent almost a week being bothered with it.

[The Black Knight]

It's just the way different people pronoune it through different dialects and people, but basicly its the same.

Put your tounge behind your front teeth, now start moving upward, the spot to place your tounge is a little bit past your tounge. If you feel the roof of your mouth (i don't know all the proper terms) You will see as it comes to your teeth, your gums are at a sharp angle. Then as the approach it they are at less of an angle and theres is a "ridge" just before your teeth. This is where you want to place your tounge. In Japanese there arent really any dramatic mouth movements to form the sounds.

In a sense the Japanese r is more relaxed than it's english counterpart, and sounds like a mix between an l and r. Don't use this to form the sound, just use it to check and see if your r sound is right. Trying to form the sound with the l;r combination in mind wont work. Just pronounce an r like normal but have your tounge touch the gums behind your teeth.

[Fox of Konoha]

See, now that makes a little more since. I guess I'll go with that until toward otherwise. So far, it sounds like some of the audo I hear. Now, any suggestion about learning kanji?

[The Black Knight]

I suggest the heising method. buy some kanji flashcards, and the book "remembering the kanji" on ebay.

Heres some kanji you probably already know (with english equivalents) ....I think they are all level 1 kanji
一 one
ニ two
三 three
四 four
五 five
六 six
七 seven
八 eight
九 nine
十 ten
人 person, people, man
語 - language, word, talking (n)
日 - sunshine/day
本 - book, main, head, origin, foundation.
右 - right (hand side)
百 - 100
千 - thousand, many

...if you need the readings just post here and I will post both on and kun readings tomorrow.

[Anego]

It's bugging the crap out of me. I try different sources and they give like 5 different tongue position and any like I said, audio differs from using a english "r", to "l" and even an english "d". For example, when I here "Naruto", it sound to be like a enlgish "r", or is that just me. But when I here "Ramen", it sounds like "Lamen" . It just bothering me cause I cant get past it. I've spent almost a week being bothered with it.

in japan, though it is use "r", we may pronounce as "L". It's not a problem in japanese since no words using "la-li-lu-le-lo". As asian, I do understand why sometimes they spell it as "L". It's a little hard to say "r". when I was a kid, I need to force myself to spell it :D since my language need the "r" and "L".
since in japan there's no stritch on it, you don't have to worry.

well, I add some advice,
you sometimes got a sentence that use "ga" which pronounce as "nga". I asked my japanese host brother, and he said it's a Tokyo dialect. Sometimes I heard that Naruto's voice over use "nga" instead "ga".

hope it's useful for you. :)