It's a fact, DC SUCK!! [Archive]

lekki

04-20-2006, 08:43 AM

I always read these posts saying that Marvel sucks, DC actually has the guts to kill off their characters. DC is more mature, this and that.

Last time I checked, Marvel left the comic code since they felt it was too restrictive and can say a helluva lot more in their comicbooks than the DC characters ever could.

Go read the issue when Spiderman almost died and Mary Jane got her arm broken. Go read enemy of state with Wolverine where we have gore every other page.

About character deaths.

The reason DC kills off characters so often is the fact that they have such a large volume of characters with duplicate powers that no one actually cares when those that do die get offed.

Who've we had in recent years?
Blue Beetle? That chick on freedom force who turns invisible? Max Lord?:laugh

No one cares about these people.

Marvel had Jean Grey die!!! Jean Grey, she makes up for all those people who were killed in DC in the last 10 years. Colossus was dead and buried for a very long time and his ressurection was in no way corny.

Vision is gone, Hawkeye is gone, these are all founding members of the Marvel Universe, not just the comicbooks they appeared in.

Marvel storylines almost always happen on the street, deal with racism and real life issues while DC always talks about some whiny alien dude who only holds back in fights so they can complete 20 more inconsiquential pages for that particular issue. Then he suddenly ends the fight in one punch.

I'd keep ranting except Marvel doesn't actually pay me anything to write in their favor so:amuse

Rice Ball

04-20-2006, 08:50 AM

DC doesn't suck.

Nor does Marvel.

The DC characters are good examples of 'Super Heroes' you know men in tights with capes chanting boy scout phrases while pulling 200 powers out of there ass.

Marvel characters aren't normally as over the top (not all characters, see Silver Surfer for example)

Both companys produce good comics, both have also produced dodgy comics (SMVFL for example)only the extreme fanbois will tell you any different :P

(I'm a Marvel fanboi myself, i hate the fact that every single DC character is a speedster by they never use even 1% of there speed)

hjkou

04-20-2006, 09:03 AM

dc owns marvel

at least in movies anyway

batman alone shits on xmen + spiderman + f4 + hulk
add the original supermans into the equation and thats every marvel movie ever made.

Comic Book Guy

04-20-2006, 09:08 AM

Marvel had Jean Grey die!!! Jean Grey, she makes up for all those people who were killed in DC in the last 10 years. Colossus was dead and buried for a very long time and his ressurection was in no way corny.

Though Colossus is a popular Marvel character that guaranteed a resurrection in the future, I felt that the circumstances of his resurrection was. . . not thought out enough. IMO, I thought it was pathetic, another one of those resurrections that Marvel's famed for.

And Jean Grey dies and resurrects more than any famous comic book character that I know. Never liked her, and never will.

Vision is gone, Hawkeye is gone, these are all founding members of the Marvel Universe, not just the comicbooks they appeared in.

They'll be back. I remember when Hawkeye suddenly came back during HoM after he died in Disassembled. Wow, what a cheap resurrection (even if it was temporary).I'll never forget the fact that 'that' was to 'break the Internet in half'.

Marvel is by far from perfect like DC.

Guy Gardner

04-20-2006, 03:58 PM

I always read these posts saying that Marvel sucks, DC actually has the guts to kill off their characters. DC is more mature, this and that.

I wouldn't say more... mature. I think they are both mature. I think DC as of late is far more character-driven than Marvel, and a bit more consistant.

Last time I checked, Marvel left the comic code since they felt it was too restrictive and can say a helluva lot more in their comicbooks than the DC characters ever could.

Uh... you sure on that? As of late DC's been doing a lot of really riske stuff (Rape of Sue Dibney, the Death of Psycho Pirate, etc...). I don't think they are really as restricted as you think.

Go read the issue when Spiderman almost died and Mary Jane got her arm broken. Go read enemy of state with Wolverine where we have gore every other page.

*CoughLOBOCough*

That above really detracts from your argument.

About character deaths.

The reason DC kills off characters so often is the fact that they have such a large volume of characters with duplicate powers that no one actually cares when those that do die get offed.

Who've we had in recent years?
Blue Beetle? That chick on freedom force who turns invisible? Max Lord?:laugh

Superboy, Supergirl, Hal Jordan, Green Arrow, Hawkwoman (Shyira), among a couple dozen minor characters.

No one cares about these people.

Actually, Blue Beetle (Along with many of the old JLI) have a decent fanbase. Blue Beetle in particular is very popular because of his Spiderman-Wiseass Attitude and ingenuity.

And I'd argue Superboy has a bigger fanbase than Colossus.

Marvel had Jean Grey die!!! Jean Grey, she makes up for all those people who were killed in DC in the last 10 years. Colossus was dead and buried for a very long time and his ressurection was in no way corny.

Jean Grey dies and comes back every few months. She's quite literally the epitome of the lame comic-book-death.

Vision is gone, Hawkeye is gone, these are all founding members of the Marvel Universe, not just the comicbooks they appeared in.

... and then Hawkeye was BACK. And now he's gone... again...?

And you are definitely overstating Vision and Hawkeye's importance. They are great characters, but the ones I named above are far more integral to the DC Universe than these were to the Marvel Universe.

Marvel storylines almost always happen on the street, deal with racism and real life issues while DC always talks about some whiny alien dude who only holds back in fights so they can complete 20 more inconsiquential pages for that particular issue. Then he suddenly ends the fight in one punch.

Okay, you really don't read DC much.

First off, 'real issues'? Read some of the Batman sideworks, Green Arrow, and stuff like that. Dealing with 'real issues' is getting stale, especially in regards to the Mutant stuff (OMG MUTANT REGISTRATION ACT... Wait, haven't we been here more than once?)

Not only that, but DC is far more character driven (especially as of late). The recent stuff coming out of DC has been far better in quality than most Marvel stuff (Look at House of M vs. Infinite Crisis) because it is driven more by the characters rather than some Deus Ex Machina (OMG SCARLET WITCH GOD MOD POWERS).

I'd keep ranting except Marvel doesn't actually pay me anything to write in their favor so:amuse

No offense, I do like Marvel, but you really know jack about DC.

Jio

04-20-2006, 04:02 PM

Well i have yet to ready marvel since i was about 8 years old i guess.

I will start once i figure out how to search and download ( will someone please tell me).

Comic Book Guy

04-20-2006, 10:00 PM

I dislike Marvel greatly for its numerous character resurrections. I remember the issue when Aunt May died of old age during issue 400 of a Spider-Man run. It was done great, and a central character departed in a prety good, acceptable manner. Then later, we find out that it was a DNA modified actress, and Aunt May was still alive. She later went on to die another time, and then come back.

Jean Grey came back more times than I could care to remember; Colossus' resurrection and explanation cheapened his noble sacrifice IMO; Hawkeye died in a blaze of glory in the Disassembled run, only to be brought back in HoM and remains MIA post-HoM; Green Goblin came back as a crappy explanation to the Clone Saga and now the fiascal with Gwen Stacy's children. I could go on and on. . .

Though DC is not without fault either. Major characters undergo a death, resurrection, change, and normalcy cycle that last for years or months.

If anything, blame it on the status quo. If I had it my way, the majority of comic characters would be in their old age now, and have time progress linearly rather than have them eternally young.

Curious, do you only read the mainstream DCU comics? Try the DC's Vertigo or Wildstorm comics.

Guy Gardner

04-21-2006, 12:27 AM

Vertigo is an excellent line. If you think DC isn't mature enough, try 100 Bullets. It's one of best written series I've read in a while.

SASUNARU<3

04-21-2006, 12:58 AM

I always read these posts saying that Marvel sucks, DC actually has the guts to kill off their characters. DC is more mature, this and that.
Nobody who is knowledgable of the DCU would say any of those things save the about killing off of characters. In terms of characters, DC has killed off alot more than Marvel.(Atleast ones that stay dead.)

Last time I checked, Marvel left the comic code since they felt it was too restrictive and can say a helluva lot more in their comicbooks than the DC characters ever could.
Despite that, in recent years, Marvel is no more "edgy" or whatever you would like to call it than DC. All Marvel has is the MAX line which mostly sucks and DC has a whole publisher called Vertigo for that.

Go read the issue when Spiderman almost died and Mary Jane got her arm broken. Go read enemy of state with Wolverine where we have gore every other page.
Ever read Grell's run on Green Arrow?

The reason DC kills off characters so often is the fact that they have such a large volume of characters with duplicate powers that no one actually cares when those that do die get offed.
Your right. Marvel has no duplicate powers. *cough*cough*Cable, Jean Grey, X-Man, Xavier, Emma Frost, Rachel Summers, Psylocke, Exodus, Franklin Richards, Hellion, Moon Dragon, Onslaught, Legion, Apocalypse, Stryfe, plus 100s others*cough*cough*

Who've we had in recent years?
Blue Beetle? That chick on freedom force who turns invisible? Max Lord?:laugh

No one cares about these people.

Marvel had Jean Grey die!!! Jean Grey, she makes up for all those people who were killed in DC in the last 10 years. Colossus was dead and buried for a very long time and his ressurection was in no way corny.
Vision is gone, Hawkeye is gone, these are all founding members of the Marvel Universe, not just the comicbooks they appeared in.
Barry Allen died and has stayed dead. Might I also add he was way more important to the DCU than Jean Grey was to the 616. Superboy is gone too. However, I will admit that DC kills off alot of minor characters, but last time I checked, just because you kill off a character doesn't mean you are edgy or a good writer. Deaths like Vision's and Hawkeye's were merely plot devices for the poorly planned House of M crossover. You seem to think that deaths=quality. And to top that, Jean Grey has died and been brought back so many times, no one cares anymore. Also, Hawkeye returned in She-Hulk and will soon come back. Vision is a non-event. There is already a Vision II. He is easily replaced.

Marvel storylines almost always happen on the street, deal with racism and real life issues while DC always talks about some whiny alien dude who only holds back in fights so they can complete 20 more inconsiquential pages for that particular issue. Then he suddenly ends the fight in one punch.
Back in 1970, Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams came togther to do the Green Lanter/Green Arrow. This was the first mainstream attempt that dealt with drugs, racism, politics, and was extremely controversial. It was quite a bit after that wherein Marvel touched upon these subjects minus the 2 issues of Amazing Spider-Man where Norman Osbourne took some drugs. To add to that, Green Arrow's long time side-kick Roy Harper aka Speedy became addicted to heroin in the mid-70s. Don't even try to tell me Marvel is more "real" than DC.

And next time, remeber to put an "s" at the end of "suck".

Potentialflip

04-21-2006, 01:12 AM

This is possibly the lamest attempt to bash DC...
While I like both companies. I do prefer DC over Marvel.

Comic Book Guy

04-21-2006, 01:13 AM

So, topic creator. . .

How do you explain the numerous character deaths and resurrections? Like Jean, Aunt May, Hawkeye, etc.? Quality story material?

lucky

04-21-2006, 01:50 AM

Hmmmm.... because you personally prefer marvel, then DC undeniably legitimately and factually sucks.

Lol. Before i just thought you were a little bit biased towards Marvel (which is ok, since we're all leaning one way or another). But you just had to go and state 'facts' based on painfully obviously uneducated assumptions. Now i just think you're an idiot.

SASUNARU<3

04-21-2006, 02:22 AM

Potentialflip

04-21-2006, 02:30 AM

Man now I'm feeling for you cause almost this whole entire thread did not even come close to agreeing with you at all.

Green Lantern

04-21-2006, 03:17 AM

I almost never neg rep people for stating their opinion, but this is really way out of line.

Your comments are heavily biased, and you have clearly demonstrated that you have a rather severe lack of up to date DC knowledge.

Honestly if you can read any Batman, Infinite Crisis, Legion of Superheroes, or anything Vertigo and still say that DC suck or Marvel are more mature, then you either are reading the wrong things, or your definition of mature/quality comics is way off tangent.

Seriously dude, this had better be a joke topic, cause the amount of ignorance and bias displayed by your comments are really disturbing.

lekki

04-21-2006, 10:41 PM

I admit that I am terribly biased towards Marvel but that bias was made more so by your every thread bashing Marvel over nothing.

And while I may have gone over the top, my points still stand while you guys are kinda exaggerating.

Vertigo is not a DC comicbook in the regular sense.

It's like Disney. Disney owns alot of other companies that make pretty horrible, and by horibble I mean kids having sex with kids and minors with aids kinda stuff, and they get away with it because the production company isn't called Disney.

In the same way Vertigo is owned by DC but isn't actually DC.

About character ressurections. You're gonna bash Jean Grey coming back? Take a look at the flagship DC character Superman.
Didn't Red Hood just kill the Joker? Why was he back again asking to be let on to the League of Supervillians?

Talk about inconsistencies on story? Like I said above, Wonder Woman isn't bullet proof but she's sun proof? She's radiation proof? Every character has meta-healing now and can pretty much come back from anything since it's explained away with ' Oh she has a meta's metabolism so she'll be back on her feet in no time!"

And how can you call Hawkeye coming back in a warped world created by an insane mutant a comeback? That one just made no sense to me.

As for character driven storylines, Marvel has been character driven, DC is just catching up.

You fail to see this since Marvel has always been that way. The whole point of a Spiderman comic is to show how the little guy can overcome the odds. X-men comics are all about the relationships between the characters. The Fantastic Four has familial bitching on a montly basis i.e. when the issue comes out.

So what if I decided to go over the top with my initial thread, like I said initially and I say again, no one pays me for this so I don't really care if you agree or not, just stop bashing needlessly or i make threads liek these for balance.

And radishbak, you're very disappointing.
I could've neg repped you everytime you needlessly decided to bash Marvel in pretty much any thread you've made in this section of NF but I didn't.

You make it seem like DC pays you to be their defender.

And for the record, I actually follow and enjoy both DC and Marvel comics, I just wanted to bring balance to the bias that exists here.

Call me biased?
Pot calling the kettle black I say.

Scorpio3.14

04-22-2006, 12:00 AM

Vertigo is not a DC comicbook in the regular sense.

It's like Disney. Disney owns alot of other companies that make pretty horrible, and by horibble I mean kids having sex with kids and minors with aids kinda stuff, and they get away with it because the production company isn't called Disney.

In the same way Vertigo is owned by DC but isn't actually DC.

No, Vertigo is DC. It may not be set in the DCU, but its still DC comics. DC created Vertigo as a name for there "mature" line of comics. Many of the early Vertigo comics were actually set in the DCU (Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, The Sandman, etc...) but then they decided it best to create there own universe to give Vergtigo more freedom to develop storys without worrying about continuity.

Vergtio is DC, you cant just ignore it because it ruins your argument about why DC sucks.

About character ressurections. You're gonna bash Jean Grey coming back? Take a look at the flagship DC character Superman.
Didn't Red Hood just kill the Joker? Why was he back again asking to be let on to the League of Supervillians?

Everyone has admited that DC resurrects their characters too. Their point is that it was stupid of you to use Jean Grey as an example for Marvel killing off their characters when she dies and comes back to life more times then anyone.

Talk about inconsistencies on story? Like I said above, Wonder Woman isn't bullet proof but she's sun proof? She's radiation proof? Every character has meta-healing now and can pretty much come back from anything since it's explained away with ' Oh she has a meta's metabolism so she'll be back on her feet in no time!"

Do you read Wonder Women? She has always had accelerated healing. Plus the reason Wonder Women is not bullet proof is that its an extreme pressure applied to a small area on her body, it has something to do with the magical nature of power IIRC. Her skin can withstand an atomic bomb, but she can be cut by strong swords and high powered bullets. There is nothing contridictory about her being able to survive close the the sun for such a short period of time.

So what if I decided to go over the top with my initial thread, like I said initially and I say again, no one pays me for this so I don't really care if you agree or not, just stop bashing needlessly or i make threads liek these for balance.

Dude, no offense but stop acting like Marvel is so discriminated against around here. That is not the case at all. Go to the Marvel vs DC comics in the comics section and you will see a majority of people saying that Marvel is better. Most smart people will say that DC and Marvel are both good and both really enjoyable. Even if you have a favorite company most all of us can agree that both companies have good work. I dont know why you feel the need to bash DC.

SASUNARU<3

04-22-2006, 12:04 AM

I'd make him look like even more of an ass, but you've done a good enough job Scorp.

lucky

04-22-2006, 12:32 AM

lol. In the older marvel vs. DC thread marvel totally raped DC pollwise.

Anyways, it doesn't change the fact that you put an extremely onesided subjective opinion as FACT. Add your complete utter tactlessless and you're just asking for it. Just try to imagine what would've happened if the thread title said something like,

"Why i believe Marvel Comics is better than DC."

But noooo.... you had to write "DC suck!". heh. How old are you?!

It's ironic how you claim to try to balance out the biasedness (which is historically in Marvel's favor in the outskirts battledome) but are quite honestly one of the most biased persons (self-admittedly) in the outskirts.

Anwayys... enlighten me. I'm awfully curious. What the hell are you trying to prove anways?

Guy Gardner

04-22-2006, 02:44 AM

Just to clear up something things:

Joker was not killed by Red Hood. You've already made a huge mistake.

You fail to see this since Marvel has always been that way. The whole point of a Spiderman comic is to show how the little guy can overcome the odds. X-men comics are all about the relationships between the characters. The Fantastic Four has familial bitching on a montly basis i.e. when the issue comes out.

Just because you don't understand things that DC is putting out doesn't mean that they don't have meaning. Ever since the original Crisis on Infinite Earths, Marvel has been going downhill. Ultimates is the exception, but all in all, DC has been steadily getting better and more mature, while Marvel has sort of fallen into gimmicky stuff. I don't care about the 70s (Even though, as said before, GL/GA joints were far ahead of Marvel and anyone else at the time in Real Issues), or the stuff from a while back. The future is now, and DC is beating Marvel in both story, character interaction, and overall direction in their universe.

Examples:

Identity Crisis: I think it was here someone brought up that Marvel has been doing this for years, citing Moria wiping part of Magneto's mind and Magneto coming back pissed. They missed the point of the thing: With Marvel, there was no question if it was right or wrong. With the DC Heroes, they were, well, considering the moral quandry that it brings up: Is it right to change someone's personality and their mind to make a safer world? The interaction between characters (Especially people like Green Arrow and Flash), is brilliant.

Batman, since TDKR, has been asking the question "How far does one go before he crosses the line between criminal and hero?" It's also how far someone can push themselves in the pursuit of justice: Look at Knightfall, which is an excellent storyline that combines both the above elements.

Superman has always been the struggle to keep the moral highground. Here (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/1748588.html#cutid1)'s an excellent comic about just that, and frankly that's a far more complex and interesting idea than simply 'family arguing'.

The Justice League has the same thing that the X-Men have had. Hell, watch the damn cartoon show and you can see that no problem. JLU, especially, has shown great interaction between characters, as have the comics.

What you're talking about doesn't necessarily make a good comic. Themes are good, but asking questions, posing problems, and putting people in complex moral situations is far, far more interesting. "Family Bickering" can be found on any sort of Daytime Soap Opera, and while I'm not saying that F4 isn't good (Because it is a good concept with great characters, despite some low points), these concepts alone do not a good comic make.

On maturity: I think you misinterpret the idea of being 'good' as being 'kiddy'. As I see it, DC characters choose to be good, though they don't always want to be. There are times where they do want to let go (The comic above with Manchester Black again), but to do so would make them as good as the villains themselves. To try and stay good, to keep the higher ground rather than simply going the 'easy way' and killing, maiming, and other things like that, that's a REAL fight. I see the concept of someone trying to stay good, even when it's hard, as a far tougher goal (Especially with people like Superman, who could arguably crush people like grapes, and Batman, who could easily be a incredibly lethal fighter) to stay to the ideal, even if it might hurt you in the end.

So what if I decided to go over the top with my initial thread, like I said initially and I say again, no one pays me for this so I don't really care if you agree or not, just stop bashing needlessly or i make threads liek these for balance.

And radishbak, you're very disappointing.
I could've neg repped you everytime you needlessly decided to bash Marvel in pretty much any thread you've made in this section of NF but I didn't.

You make it seem like DC pays you to be their defender.

No offense, but you're just an idiot. I've never seen rad be that bad; definitely not close to what you're doing. You attracted Marvel fans as well. You deserve to be neg repped, if anyone, as you started not only a topic intended to flame people with, but one that is completely ignorant and bigotted towards one view. I don't hate Marvel, but I realize they are not doing that well (Outside of Ultimates which ranges from INCREDIBLE to the lighter side of good).

And for the record, I actually follow and enjoy both DC and Marvel comics, I just wanted to bring balance to the bias that exists here.

What a joke. If you liked them both, you wouldn't make such an ignorant topic about one. Just shut up.

Call me biased?
Pot calling the kettle black I say.

I'll call you "Black and Decker", since you've just become a tool in my eyes.

Countach

04-22-2006, 03:10 AM

i have always liked marvel more, spiderman is my boy

Guy Gardner

04-22-2006, 04:12 AM

Spidey is one of the greats. I mean, there are few people that just about everyone can get behind, and Spiderman is really one of those guys. :)

Green Lantern

04-22-2006, 06:40 AM

I think I should explain why I neg repped you lekki-

See as I principle I never neg rep anyone for their opinions, and indeed in this case, the reason I neg repped you isn't simply because I don't like your opinion, as that would simply be childish.

The reason I neg repped you is because of your actions.
I can understand where you are coming from in creating this thread. Around 6 months ago, the Outskirts Battledome was a very different place- DC was't on top, and most debates which took place were rather skewed towards Marvel. In those days, comic book awareness wasn't very high, and most posters knowledge were limited to comics they had read as children in the 90's.

In fact, even back then, I had never read much comics, and it was actually visiting the OB which sparked my interest in comicbooks, which is why I started to read comics.

Initially, I primarily read Marvel, and for me Marvel was awesome, especially older stuff like Infinity Gauntlet etc.

But then I came across some DC- Teen Titans, and some JLA stuff, and as I read, I realised- "Hey, this stuff is good!".

It was at that point I realised just how skewed the Outskirts Battledome really was. As I recall, a few months back, it was only dudes like Bullet and other comic fans who really stood up for DC in these parts.

And so I tried my best to help push interest towards DC.
It was also around this time Infinite Crisis came out.
Infinite Crisis in my mind was the turning point.

Before IC, posters like Rice Ball, and shika shika boo were definitely very staunchly Marvel fans, and during debates I was hard pressed to change their minds. However they too finally read IC and they changed their minds.

As I have said before, there is now a new generation of OBers who debate in these parts. These debaters have read the comics, both Marvel and DC, and it so happens that they prefer DC now.

I can understand how you might see that there appears to be a large amount of DC favoritism in the OB, but you weren't around for a couple of months, and in those few months, people changed their minds. Opinions swayed, and now DC is on top.

I can see why this would be very distressing, and why you would want to try and change this mindset.
However, the way in which you tried to do this was totally wrong.

If you wanted to change opinions towards Marvel, creating a thread which inspires flaming and derogatory comments towards DC isn't the way to do it.
Change will not come overnight, and trying to force change overnight will make alot of people dislike you.

The OB is a place for open mindedness, and people will change their minds overtime. If you want to make a change, do it in various threads. Stick to your guns, and maybe the tide will turn.

This is not the way to do it, and the abruptness and the disrespectful comments are the reason I felt you were out of line and had to be neg repped.

Currently, Marvel isn't very respected around these parts.
People feel like they have sold out- Looking at the movies and merchandising which has been generated, their claims are completely warranted.
DC on the other hand has gained supporters because of Infinite Crisis, and the fact that they are willing to make big changes, but not compromise quality.
Perhaps you may not change your mind by what I say, and perhaps you may never change my mind by what you say.
I do respect your opinions, and I'm sure that if you were to try a different approach to changing peoples opinions, you would definitely gain more supporters.

The comic book industry is fickle, and readers jump from one big event to the next. Maybe Marvel will reclaim readers with Civil War and Annhiliation. And maybe then you will be in the majority.

But this thread is definitely not the right way to solve things, and that is why I neg repped you. I hope you understand my position in this matter, and why I feel that your comments and actions were out of line.

Come with an open mind. Read more Infinite Crisis.
Maybe you'll change your mind, or maybe one day you can change the way I view things as they stand.

Gooba

04-22-2006, 11:40 AM

I like Marvel more because I like the characters more. When I read Infinity Crisis, and the 5 leadup stories I just kept hating everyone I was reading about.

I'll go back to reading Wolverine V3, which is far better than IC, IMO.

Comic Book Guy

04-22-2006, 03:13 PM

I admit that I am terribly biased towards Marvel but that bias was made more so by your every thread bashing Marvel over nothing.

You bashed DC, I think we're allowed fair game. Both of them have their negatives, and I could bash both, if I wanted to.

And while I may have gone over the top, my points still stand while you guys are kinda exaggerating.

Not really.

Vertigo is not a DC comicbook in the regular sense.

It's a DC comics book oriented to older, mature fans. Plus, some Vertigo books take place in the DCU, like the Sandman (Dream makes a few cameos in JLA #22 and JSA #80; heck, his former parents were Hector Hall and Lyta Hall, Dr. Fate and wife). Recently, we see a Swamp Man cameo in IC#6 and Black Orchid in DOV special and IC#6. There's Tim Hunter from Gaiman's Books of Magic, who talks to the Phantom Stranger.

The Day of Vengeance was originally planned to involve the Vertigo world (Hellblazer, Swamp-Thing, the Endless), but DC wouldn't let them in fear of exposing younger kids to the Vertigo line.

It's like Disney. Disney owns alot of other companies that make pretty horrible, and by horibble I mean kids having sex with kids and minors with aids kinda stuff, and they get away with it because the production company isn't called Disney.

In the same way Vertigo is owned by DC but isn't actually DC.

Vertigo, and Wildstorm, IS part of DC. A different imprint line, like Marvel's Marvel Knights and MAX lines.

About character ressurections. You're gonna bash Jean Grey coming back? Take a look at the flagship DC character Superman.
Didn't Red Hood just kill the Joker? Why was he back again asking to be let on to the League of Supervillians?

When Superman died, people around the world reacted to his death. Plus, you really think DC would kill a comic book icon? (not DC, comic books in general) I don't think the world is and will ever be ready for permanent deaths of icons like Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, and Wolverine. Hell, if I had it my way, they'd be dead already, and a newer generation is continuing in their name.

Red Hood didn't kill the Joker, nor did the Red Hood die. Joker was beaten to a pulp when Red Hood had his revenge, and you see Red Hood alive one year later, despite suffering a cut artery by Batman. You never see them confirmed dead on-panel.

As for Jean coming back, that girl comes back more than I can count. Her first death and resurrection the Phoenix, I can accept. Her death as Phoenix, it's was inevitable to prevent her from coming Dark Phoenix. It was a noble sacrifice.

THen we see Madelyne come in. Alright, she's a clone of Jean, but has yet to establish herself as her own character. It was like another resurrection, but I dealt with it. Then after Cable, the REAL Jean comes back; we learn that the Jean who died was nothing more than a PHOENIX DUPLICATE. What the hell?

I don't really care about Jean, actually, but she is the most notable of character death and resurrection. No, what really ticked me off was resurrecting Aunt May and Mary Jane. If you want details, then ask.

Talk about inconsistencies on story? Like I said above, Wonder Woman isn't bullet proof but she's sun proof? She's radiation proof? Every character has meta-healing now and can pretty much come back from anything since it's explained away with ' Oh she has a meta's metabolism so she'll be back on her feet in no time!"

Scorpio 3.14 explains it nicely.

And how can you call Hawkeye coming back in a warped world created by an insane mutant a comeback? That one just made no sense to me.

He DIED in a blaze of glory, was STATED to never come back again (at the time), and CAME BACK during the HoM. It doesn't matter whether he was a mental construct of Wanda that would most likely cease once HoM was done, but HE CAME BACK. That's the bottom line and the thing that Bendis said would crack the Internet in half.

As for character driven storylines, Marvel has been character driven, DC is just catching up.

I could say that Marvel is catching up to DC in terms of big events. DC had its Infinite Crisis for some time now. Marvel IMO keeps out throwing one big event after another cause big change after big change.

Avengers Disassembled, House of Magnus, Annihilation, Civil War, and now Beyond. My wallet is crying, once I'm done with one big story, only to find another one come out.

Don't think that DC is not immune. DC is far from perfect. Some of their stories are so tied into tie-ins, that reading them is essential. Infinite Crisis requires so many tie-ins that it's not funny.

Why do both Marvel and DC do this? Maybe it's for story quality and an attempt to mimic the real world, but there's always money involved.

I like both Marvel and DC; they have their own flaws and good things in different tastes and so.

You fail to see this since Marvel has always been that way. The whole point of a Spiderman comic is to show how the little guy can overcome the odds. X-men comics are all about the relationships between the characters. The Fantastic Four has familial bitching on a montly basis i.e. when the issue comes out.

Yes, Marvel is character driven. It's that its stories sometimes disappoint me sometimes. The Other was a huge letdown, House of M didn't live up to my expectations. Fantastic Four never had a story in which made their characters interesting in me (save for the Onslaught saga, but I was more interested in Franklin instead of the 4).

And DC isn't without faults too.

So what if I decided to go over the top with my initial thread, like I said initially and I say again, no one pays me for this so I don't really care if you agree or not, just stop bashing needlessly or i make threads liek these for balance.

The thing that causing all this 'ruckus' and 'bashing' was that you state that it's a FACT that DC sucks. That alone would cause all DC and general comic fans to go in a frenzy.

And radishbak, you're very disappointing.
I could've neg repped you everytime you needlessly decided to bash Marvel in pretty much any thread you've made in this section of NF but I didn't.

You make it seem like DC pays you to be their defender.

. . . Sigh.

And for the record, I actually follow and enjoy both DC and Marvel comics, I just wanted to bring balance to the bias that exists here.

Oh sure. Bring balance to a bias by declaring an indirect war.

Call me biased?
Pot calling the kettle black I say.

No, you ARE biased.

Feathers!

04-22-2006, 03:23 PM

dc owns marvel

at least in movies anyway

batman alone shits on xmen + spiderman + f4 + hulk
add the original supermans into the equation and thats every marvel movie ever made.
Spiderman and Blade 1 alone destroy all those other DC titles. You'd have to go back to Adam West and Batman1 to find a decent DC movie. superman 1& 2 were classics tho, i cant lie. Im a spiderman fan first and foremost, the rest of those "heroes" can just fall back.:laugh Marvel ftw?:amuse

Guy Gardner

04-22-2006, 04:01 PM

Spiderman and Blade 1 alone destroy all those other DC titles. You'd have to go back to Adam West and Batman1 to find a decent DC movie. superman 1& 2 were classics tho, i cant lie. Im a spiderman fan first and foremost, the rest of those "heroes" can just fall back.:laugh Marvel ftw?:amuse

...

Batman Begins is far better than the first Spiderman and the entirity of the Blade series. Spiderman 2 is definitely equal, but it has the advantage of already having set characters. Batman Begins had to show things in his origins that never had been seen: The actual beginning of Batman is not shown at all, even in things like Year 1. To do something like that was truly impressive.

Adam West and decent DC movie? At moment, with the new Superman and the new Batman, DC seems to have it on Marvel, lest X3 just blows everything out of the water.

Scorpio3.14

04-22-2006, 04:43 PM

...

Batman Begins is far better than the first Spiderman and the entirity of the Blade series. Spiderman 2 is definitely equal, but it has the advantage of already having set characters. Batman Begins had to show things in his origins that never had been seen: The actual beginning of Batman is not shown at all, even in things like Year 1. To do something like that was truly impressive.

Adam West and decent DC movie? At moment, with the new Superman and the new Batman, DC seems to have it on Marvel, lest X3 just blows everything out of the water.

I would also like to mention that I believe DC has a Wonder Women and a Flash movie in the works. Both are looking to be possible really good. Especially the Flash movie (fanboyism taking over :P). Its being written and directed by David Goyer (same guy that did Batman Begins and the Blade trilogy). The Wonder Women movie is being written by Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, etc...) and will hopefully be pretty cool.

However, the day DC does a JLA movie I will be able to die a happy man :amuse

SASUNARU<3

04-22-2006, 05:03 PM

I like Marvel more because I like the characters more. When I read Infinite Crisis, and the 5 leadup stories I just kept hating everyone I was reading about.

I'll go back to reading Wolverine V3, which is far better than IC, IMO.

Perfect example of how you can express your opinion without sounding like an ignorant prick.

Sublime

04-22-2006, 05:23 PM

FACT: you're ignorant of the correct usage of "fact".

Valdens

04-23-2006, 12:58 AM

Its Ok Lekki. Im Still Your Friend.

Lord Yu

04-23-2006, 01:05 AM

I used to be a big time marvel guy. But I moved over when I started Vertigo stuff and Batman graphic novels. The stories were so well done and interesting I become more of a DC man. As for main stuff I still like marvel best. With Batman as the exception.

lekki

04-23-2006, 06:07 AM

OMFG, guys you accuse me of bashing and not comprehending fact, asking me how old I am and just plain out having a field day in the hater department when you failed to completely read my post.

I admitted in post two that I actually read and enjoy both these companys fine porducts but the atmosphere here in the forum with the advent of Infinite Crisis is the Worship of dc and the bashing of Marvel.

Who here hasn't seen a comment in a comparative thread where someone slips in the comment that Civil war is gonna be a cheap knock off of Infinite Crisis?

As for Jean Grey getting ressurected, get your facts right.
Jean Grey has only comeback once.

The other people were Madelyne Pryor and the Phoenix itself.

Jean Grey was found in Hudson Bay by the Fantastic Four much later on.

Jean has since died and the Phoenix force in Jean Grey's body came back in a mini-series, that was it. I count 1 and a half ressurections at best.

As for how little guppies on the forums feel about me? Like I give a damn.

Fail to comprehend my opinions no matter how radical and I don't really feel the need to lose sleep over your snide little comments.

And Radishbak, to try and justify your neg rep just inspired me to neg rep you back.

I never made any of my comments personal even though I could've. I have directed all my comments at either DC or forum go-ers in general.

And to say that I incited flame wars is ludicrous at best.

You all that are completely on the DC bandwagon make it seem like they pay you money every month.

I have explained why I did what I did.

Infinite Crisis is good but not so good that makes DC the shining beacon in the storm that is comicbook mediocrity as of late.

One issue of Illumaniti can take on a good chunk of the Infinite Crisis books.

I read the Infinite Crisis build up in a chunk over a period of one-week as I have to get my comicbooks by torrent out here and I needed to catch up on some stuff so the entire build up and first couple of Infinite Crisis are recent memory for me.

I can honestly say that it's not as great as Civil War is making itself to be if it lives up to the hype.

There was a lot of repitition and Batman's reaction to the fact that he'd been mindwiped being tempered by Despero arriving and mind-controlling everyone was a disappointing cop-out.

Ruin being the President was so obvious, it was laughable and of course we also knew that Clark was gonna realize it wasn't him.

Aquaman really is uninteresting at the moment and the only comics that have truly been impressive are the Titans, Wonderwoman and Omac(first 2).
Actually JSA was pretty decent aswell.

So when I say I know what I'm talking about, I know what I'm talking about. I read both Marvel and DC and DC isn't as good as you're making it out to be at the moment.

Marvel can still dish out the storylines, sorry if they don't pack the punch you want.

I suggest picking up IronMan: extremis
Or Spiderman: The One

You like rape you say? Go get Get Kraven.

Comic Book Guy

04-23-2006, 12:01 PM

OMFG, guys you accuse me of bashing and not comprehending fact, asking me how old I am and just plain out having a field day in the hater department when you failed to completely read my post.

We read your post, yet you're contradicting yourself. DC and Marvel are like apples and oranges.

I admitted in post two that I actually read and enjoy both these companys fine porducts but the atmosphere here in the forum with the advent of Infinite Crisis is the Worship of dc and the bashing of Marvel.

I myself don't like Infinite Crisis. It's disappointing me, so far. Hell, I'm looking to Civil War, really.

Who here hasn't seen a comment in a comparative thread where someone slips in the comment that Civil war is gonna be a cheap knock off of Infinite Crisis?

I haven't. I haven't been to a comparative thread. Though, I can see why it's been said; Marvel has been putting out big event after big event non-stop to compete against DC's Infinite Crisis. Although Civil War is VERY different from Infinite Crisis, it nonetheless was churned out in response to IC's sales.

As for Jean Grey getting ressurected, get your facts right.
Jean Grey has only comeback once.

Twice, actually. I count Phoenix Endsong as her resurrection.

The other people were Madelyne Pryor and the Phoenix itself.

Didn't really matter to people and me at the time. When I found this out later, I was still ticked they resurrected something of her. Even more so when they did it before (with Pryor and the real Jean).

Jean Grey was found in Hudson Bay by the Fantastic Four much later on.

I know. One of the less, thought-through resurrection reasons in comics.

Jean has since died and the Phoenix force in Jean Grey's body came back in a mini-series, that was it. I count 1 and a half ressurections at best.

She's alive, in the White Hot Room. She's already resurrected.

As for how little guppies on the forums feel about me? Like I give a damn.

We feel that your statement that DC sucks is untrue. Everyone else supports that matter through their own means.

Fail to comprehend my opinions no matter how radical and I don't really feel the need to lose sleep over your snide little comments.

Neither do I.

And Radishbak, to try and justify your neg rep just inspired me to neg rep you back.

Oh boy.

I never made any of my comments personal even though I could've. I have directed all my comments at either DC or forum go-ers in general.

It still irked DC fans and comic book fans in general. Some take it to heart.

And to say that I incited flame wars is ludicrous at best.

Maybe. . .

You all that are completely on the DC bandwagon make it seem like they pay you money every month.

DC has its faults as well as Marvel's. Both are far from perfect. Can you admit the faults of Marvel?

I have explained why I did what I did.

Not sufficiently enough, to some people here.

Infinite Crisis is good but not so good that makes DC the shining beacon in the storm that is comicbook mediocrity as of late.

It's how one takes Infinite Crisis. Some see it brilliant, some see it good, some see it crap. I, myself, agree with your opinion on IC. It's good, but slightly disappointing.

One issue of Illumaniti can take on a good chunk of the Infinite Crisis books.

I have to agree on this.

I read the Infinite Crisis build up in a chunk over a period of one-week as I have to get my comicbooks by torrent out here and I needed to catch up on some stuff so the entire build up and first couple of Infinite Crisis are recent memory for me.

Yes, a DC fault. But Civil War is seemingly following this too. Have you seen the number of the tie-in issues?

I can honestly say that it's not as great as Civil War is making itself to be if it lives up to the hype.

IC disappointed me somewhat, and I'm actually looking forward to Marvel's CW. Though, I'm enjoying both storylines for reasons most people would find boggling. IC, I'm enjoying because of the characters, and CW because of the story. Funny, with DC and Marvel, it should be the opposite.

There was a lot of repitition and Batman's reaction to the fact that he'd been mindwiped being tempered by Despero arriving and mind-controlling everyone was a disappointing cop-out.

How would YOU find out that you've been mindwiped, due to similar reasons by your 'trusted friends'? I'd be freaking ticked.

Ruin being the President was so obvious, it was laughable and of course we also knew that Clark was gonna realize it wasn't him.

Ruin, I felt, was one of another of DC's mediocre storylines. Never interested me.

Aquaman really is uninteresting at the moment and the only comics that have truly been impressive are the Titans, Wonderwoman and Omac(first 2).
Actually JSA was pretty decent aswell.

Actually, I never read any Aquaman. That's how unimportant he is to me.

So when I say I know what I'm talking about, I know what I'm talking about.

With arrogance on your part.

I read both Marvel and DC and DC isn't as good as you're making it out to be at the moment.

No, but DC is pretty consistent with what they dish out, high quality or low, IMO. Marvel's CW has the one-up to Infinite Crisis in terms of story. BUT, like Marvel in the past, I'm expecting a 75% chance that certain changes Civil War promises to make will be retconned back to th status quo.

Marvel can still dish out the storylines, sorry if they don't pack the punch you want.

Yes, but they mostly fail to stick with the changes made to them, sooner or later.

I suggest picking up IronMan: extremis
Or Spiderman: The One

Did you mean the Other? Because the Other was simply, simply disappointing. So much, that I sold the issues I bought to someone else.

Extremis. . . it wasn't bad. One of the more interesting storylines from Iron Man, thanks to Ellis.

I suggest you read these comics from DC
-Kingdom Come
-The Sandman series
-Batman: Year One
-Batman: The Long Halloween
-The Watchmen
-V for Vendetta
-Arkham Asylum
-Hellblazer: All His Engines

You like rape you say? Go get Get Kraven.

A one-night stand with Cassandra Cain & X-23. Thank you very much.

lucky

04-23-2006, 12:02 PM

OMFG, guys you accuse me of bashing and not comprehending fact, asking me how old I am and just plain out having a field day in the hater department when you failed to completely read my post.

lol ok fine fine. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please address soemthing specifically for me please then.

By stating that we're accusing you of bashing, you are effectively implying that you were NOT bashing. Bashing... could be defined as "To criticize harshly."

lekki: It's a fact, DC SUCK!!

Don't say i'm not open minded or unwilling to listen... so go ahead. Explain what you intended with that specific phrase. Cuz i wouldn't want to assume something ludicrous like you trying to offend somebody with that... obviously tactful comment. haha.

Anyhoo i think i already said before. It wasn't the content in your initial post as opposed to the way you presented yourself.

Who here hasn't seen a comment in a comparative thread where someone slips in the comment that Civil war is gonna be a cheap knock off of Infinite Crisis?

I'm actually looking forward to civil war and am hoping that it'll be better than Infinite Crisis. Hero vs. Hero is always much more intruiging than hero vs. villain.

Guy Gardner

04-23-2006, 02:56 PM

Civil War won't be a cheap knock-off of IC: They are two completely different concepts. I do find CW a bit similar the MRA that's been tossed around in Marvel for a while, but it should be interesting to see how it ends. It's not as ambitious as IC, but it's an interesting concept. I've read House of M, and I have to say that colored me badly towards current Marvel (Which, in my opinion, has been in a little bit of a slump in current continuity), but I want to see Civil War just because it seems to be something that 1) Is a bit more believable than House of M (No more mutants my ass! I thought that kind of Deus Ex Machina is pretty lame...), and 2) The implications are more interesting. So I'm going to check it out, but I hope that it is run as well as IC.

IC is really the sequel to COIE in concept and purpose, using problems in the multiverse (Or lack thereof) and using it as a way to clear up continuity involving the entire DCU. Except the way they've built it up has been really impressive. All the action in IC hasn't been always sterling, but the way they've kept so many of the stories together and made them matter is awesome.

Of course, it has failings: Rann-Thanagar, in my opinion, is mediocre to miserable. And I was kinda digging the "Planet Heist" lead-up, even if it does require a LOT of disbelief suspension. But the main plot just hasn't worked for me at all. It's groan inducing, really. Day of Vengence I really loved, but I'm waiting for the Spectre to really play a role in the end; that part of the story just seems like it hasn't been used yet, and it angers me a bit because I loved the characters so much but they just seem to be stuck on the side.

Other than that, though, things like VU (Which is my favorite lead-in, bar none), OMAC Project, and Sacrifice were all good to great to awesome, and they've really mattered so far in terms of what's going on in IC. Just the attention to continuity (barring some problems which always occur), the storyline feels like it really involves everyone and that it matters. Ever since Identity Crisis (Which what got me involved in a company that I normally only look at for Vertigo and Batman), I've really started looking at DC, and I'm really interested. I like the attention to detail when it comes to continuity, which is arguably a bit better than Marvel, and these new storylines are getting me pumped. With a lot of changes in OYL (With good things like Superman, and bad things like Jason Todd), and 52 (Which shows off THE QUESTION, BITCHES!!!) have me hooked.

That, and Ultimates is really starting to hook me. I started reading them a little while ago and I just can't stop reading them. It's probably because Marvel doesn't has to worry about any continuity restrictions and can do whatever they want, which is kinda cool.

And, as a final aside: Yes, you started a flame war. You started an incindiary topic which was basically you 'definitively' putting down DC for 1) Ignorant Reasons or 2) Purely superficial reasons. "Marvel getting put down in Battldome"? Maybe I've missed it, but while I see a growing like of DC on the boards, I don't see a putting down of Marvel. I've put down House of M a lot, but I hated that and it sort of typified what I haven't liked about Marvel recently. I hardly think your thread is either the right response or even right in general about what's going on in Battledome. You really deserve a neg rep for simply acting like an idiot by 'walking into the bar and trying to start a fight'.

And by the by, lekki, I made my points already. You probably didn't even read them at all. I gave you a neg rep because of your inability to not take responsibility for your actions, making blantantly untrue character attacks on people like Rad, and basically refusing to take in any other viewpoint than "Marvel > DC".

DeepThought

04-23-2006, 03:02 PM

It's tru, DC blows. IC was a strange perversion of the original COIE and that wasn't so great. CW may pose some interesting "real life" questions.
...
But I'm a Dark Horse man anyway.

Scorpio3.14

04-23-2006, 03:37 PM

One issue of Illumaniti can take on a good chunk of the Infinite Crisis books.

I have to agree on this.

Wait wait wait, you guys actually liked Illumaniti?? Idk, maybe it was just me then but that comic was a huge let down. I, like most everyone else, am really hyped for Civil War but I just found the Illumaniti special to be very poorly done. The dialoge was the only redeemable quality about it, the events didnt make much sence, it retconed everything it touched, it had charcters acting way out of character IMO, and the art was horrible.

Im sorry, I would have to say I enjoyed Rann-Thanagar war (the worst IC tie-in) better then I did the Illumaniti special.

SASUNARU<3

04-23-2006, 03:46 PM

Damn lekki. You've backed yourself into a corner so bad.

Kisame

04-23-2006, 03:52 PM

I like marvel because the focus is more on earth.

Dc seems more interplanetary.

While marvel has the shree and all them. I still enjoy Spiderman going through new york and the xmen dealing with planetary threats.

lekki

04-23-2006, 04:26 PM

Damn lekki. You've backed yourself into a corner so bad.

Backed myself into a corner?:laugh

You don't know me very well then. That or you didn't comprehend my purpose.
Since I don't really know you very well either, I can't state disappointment or expectation.

I have said that this is a counter to my perceived prevalent bashing of Marvel as of late.

Those who know me know that I do what I want regardless of the consequences and of what others think.

I never came on here to be liked, I came on here to have fun and I'm having alot of it with this thread.

Although I saw in your post prior to this one that you did calm down enough to see where I was coming from.

I don't really think DC sucks, it gives me Nightwing and Robin, it can't be that bad.:amuse

But I do think that Marvel is a better company than DC in terms of enjoyability.

And one of Marvel's faults? You've already said it, they don't have the cajones to stick to a decision and they're the kings of retconning.

Spiderman is easily getting thrown 15 stories down onto his head one issue and then gets knocked out by a brick the next.

Cyclops can't blow back the Hulk with his optic blasts and yet he obliterates a sentinel who has anti-mutant abilities in Astonishing X-men.

Don't like your mutant right now? Simply wait for secondary mutation baby:thumbs

Captain America in Ragnarok actually beats down one of the gods....

Things like that.

Guy Gardner

04-23-2006, 04:33 PM

... Why couldn't you have simply been like this in the first post? The Jonathan Swift approach doesn't really work unless you're talking about eating babies. Just ask Jack Thompson.

Where is the marvel bashing, really? Is it just House of M, or is it Marvel as a whole? Because I can see the former, but I see a lot of people talking about Illuminati (As mentioned before), and CW. Are you sure it's just not in response to Marvel handling House of M?

Scorpio3.14

04-23-2006, 04:46 PM

Lekki, if you still got your delusion that Marvel is bashed around here see this thread.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=89580

There are FAR more people in there saying they prefer Marvel then they do DC. Even most of the people you claim bash Marvel actually say that Marvel and DC are both great companies that produce great comics. I really see very little Marvel bashing, except House of M which you have to admit was pretty bad XD

If anything, the thing that is bashed around here is fanboys who say that either company sucks.

SASUNARU<3

04-23-2006, 04:57 PM

Backed myself into a corner?:laugh

You don't know me very well then. That or you didn't comprehend my purpose.
Since I don't really know you very well either, I can't state disappointment or expectation.

I have said that this is a counter to my perceived prevalent bashing of Marvel as of late.

Those who know me know that I do what I want regardless of the consequences and of what others think.

I never came on here to be liked, I came on here to have fun and I'm having alot of it with this thread.

Although I saw in your post prior to this one that you did calm down enough to see where I was coming from.

I don't really think DC sucks, it gives me Nightwing and Robin, it can't be that bad.:amuse

But I do think that Marvel is a better company than DC in terms of enjoyability.

And one of Marvel's faults? You've already said it, they don't have the cajones to stick to a decision and they're the kings of retconning.

Spiderman is easily getting thrown 15 stories down onto his head one issue and then gets knocked out by a brick the next.

Cyclops can't blow back the Hulk with his optic blasts and yet he obliterates a sentinel who has anti-mutant abilities in Astonishing X-men.

Don't like your mutant right now? Simply wait for secondary mutation baby:thumbs

Captain America in Ragnarok actually beats down one of the gods....

Things like that.

Now you are coming from a completely different approach than you did in your original post. Your original points were about how much better Marvel ws than DC, now you are trying to balance out why you like Marvel more than DC rather than just blatantly bash them.

Rice Ball

04-23-2006, 05:13 PM

I really Dislike DC due to them having loads of really Over Powering characters who are constantly restricted by PIS....

BTW my fav marvel character is Thanos :nuts

Guy Gardner

04-23-2006, 05:51 PM

I like DC because of storylines and consistancy right now. That, and I think they've shown great ways of keeping the 'undefeatables' busy and keeping the whole reality warping to truly special characters. Right now, after Scarlet Witch just modified the whole of reality, I just felt like anyone can modify reality. With DC, you have people like Darkseid, Parallax (Pretty much the entire power of Oa right there), and Alex Luthor. I mean, the people who can modify the universe seem so damn powerful and just don't make too many appearances (Unless we are Jobberseid). Not to say there aren't the stupid ones (Mr. Mxylplk or however you spell it), but I just feel like DC put the reigns on universe modification at the right spot.

Iceman > Rest of Marvel Universe. I'm just waiting for him to bust out his Omega Level powers one day.

Comic Book Guy

04-23-2006, 06:35 PM

Wait wait wait, you guys actually liked Illumaniti?? Idk, maybe it was just me then but that comic was a huge let down. I, like most everyone else, am really hyped for Civil War but I just found the Illumaniti special to be very poorly done. The dialoge was the only redeemable quality about it, the events didnt make much sence, it retconed everything it touched, it had charcters acting way out of character IMO, and the art was horrible.

I liked it a bit, overseeing its retcons though. I was fine with the art, and was a nice, compact prelude to Civil War. But I rather not compare them to DC's big prelude multiples like OMAC, DOV, and VU. Too grand for my tastes, plus I can't afford that much.

Backed myself into a corner?

You don't know me very well then. That or you didn't comprehend my purpose.
Since I don't really know you very well either, I can't state disappointment or expectation.

Ditto.

I have said that this is a counter to my perceived prevalent bashing of Marvel as of late.

Those who know me know that I do what I want regardless of the consequences and of what others think.

I never came on here to be liked, I came on here to have fun and I'm having alot of it with this thread.

Sigh.

Although I saw in your post prior to this one that you did calm down enough to see where I was coming from.

I don't really think DC sucks, it gives me Nightwing and Robin, it can't be that bad.

Now you're plain contradicting yourself. Just look at the topic title.

But I do think that Marvel is a better company than DC in terms of enjoyability.

There you go. Opinion. Could have saved us a lot of grief if you said that in the first place.

And one of Marvel's faults? You've already said it, they don't have the cajones to stick to a decision and they're the kings of retconning.

THANK YOU! But on the other hands, DC has its own fair share of bad retcons. Superman didn't die, anyone?

Spiderman is easily getting thrown 15 stories down onto his head one issue and then gets knocked out by a brick the next.

Writer inconsistency. No real cure for it, and it affects all comic book characters.

Don't like your mutant right now? Simply wait for secondary mutation baby

Well, look at my avatar. He's dead for a few years now, and replaced by Cable. I want Nate Grey back.

Captain America in Ragnarok actually beats down one of the gods....

Dr. Doom
Doombot
Batman with planning
Garth Ennis' Punisher

Can't get any better than those 4 (3, if you count Doombot with Doom.)

Scorpio3.14

04-23-2006, 07:17 PM

I liked it a bit, overseeing its retcons though. I was fine with the art, and was a nice, compact prelude to Civil War. But I rather not compare them to DC's big prelude multiples like OMAC, DOV, and VU. Too grand for my tastes, plus I can't afford that much.

Its not that I was comparing Illuminati to IC directly, its just that Lekki said that Illuminati alone beat out a lot of IC and I disagree, even the weak parts of IC were more enjoyable to me then Illuminati. Thats mainly what I was trying to say.

Feathers!

04-23-2006, 07:33 PM

...

Batman Begins is far better than the first Spiderman and the entirity of the Blade series. Spiderman 2 is definitely equal, but it has the advantage of already having set characters. Batman Begins had to show things in his origins that never had been seen: The actual beginning of Batman is not shown at all, even in things like Year 1. To do something like that was truly impressive.

Adam West and decent DC movie? At moment, with the new Superman and the new Batman, DC seems to have it on Marvel, lest X3 just blows everything out of the water.
I think maybe you're right on the spiderman thing, but Batman Begins?! really, i thought it took too long to get rolling, and then once it did there wasnt enough of what you wanted to see. I appreciate DC and Marvel, the way i see it the more superhero movies the better. Hurrah!smile-big

Comic Book Guy

04-23-2006, 08:04 PM

Its not that I was comparing Illuminati to IC directly, its just that Lekki said that Illuminati alone beat out a lot of IC and I disagree, even the weak parts of IC were more enjoyable to me then Illuminati. Thats mainly what I was trying to say.

Ah. Well, sorry if I seem to be misleading in what I say.

But yes. IC >>>>>> Illuminati.

The only One-Shot story I enjoy over IC - and nearly any other big storyline - is still Sandman #8, the Sound of Her Wings.

lekki

04-24-2006, 02:15 AM

@Comicbookguy:
You gave yourself grief. If you honestly felt so strongly about this that you had grief then you have problems.

And to those who say I changed my tone, you're mistaken. The first post set out to do what it was meant to do.
Incite fierce dialogue, the second post to clarify my points without the extreme and the third post to fortify.

For me to keep ranting and raving is true madness.

You have all acheived nothing. Congratulations:thumbs
My views remain as do yours, you got mad over nothing and I still say:
MAKE MINE MARVEL!!!

I shall now wait to see how Civil War turns out.

Betting the Hulk shows up and kills a bunch of people like Namor said.

SASUNARU<3

04-24-2006, 02:24 AM

Guy Gardner

04-24-2006, 02:28 AM

So... when you want to be friends with someone, do you punch them in the face, spit on them, and then explain later how you really didn't mean that, you just wanted to get their attention?

Isn't there some rule about basically purposefully inciting a flamewar?

Scorpio3.14

04-24-2006, 03:14 AM

You have all acheived nothing. Congratulations:thumbs
My views remain as do yours, you got mad over nothing and I still say:
MAKE MINE MARVEL!!!

Congratulations, you have also acheived nothing except maybe getting yourself labeled as a fanboy and a troll (neither would be false either). :thumbs

Comic Book Guy

04-24-2006, 09:01 AM

@Comicbookguy:
You gave yourself grief. If you honestly felt so strongly about this that you had grief then you have problems.

Actually, I'm just being level-headed. Really. Haven't been emotional at all yet in these forums.

And to those who say I changed my tone, you're mistaken. The first post set out to do what it was meant to do.
Incite fierce dialogue, the second post to clarify my points without the extreme and the third post to fortify.

So. . . you basically threw something equivalent as a pointless tantrum.

For me to keep ranting and raving is true madness.

Ha.

You have all acheived nothing. Congratulations
My views remain as do yours, you got mad over nothing and I still say:
MAKE MINE MARVEL!!!

I would like a one-night stand. Yes, with Cassandra Cain and Laura Kinney.

I shall now wait to see how Civil War turns out.

Ditto.

Betting the Hulk shows up and kills a bunch of people like Namor said.

Well, 3 months after Civil War ends.

Do I feel stupid after reading your post? Nope.

Do I care? Nope.

Besides, there are people worst than you that I've met in my experiences. I have quite a tolerance level.

lekki

04-24-2006, 10:29 AM

@Comicbookguy: Good for you then. Tolerance is a good thing.

@Others: My post may have been a tad on the trollish side but it wasn't a flamewar, you made flames, not I. I never attacked anyone in particular. I only chastized Radishbak when he genuinely pissed me off by trying to justify a neg rep. If you're gonna do it, then do it and to hell with the consequences. You felt strongly enough at the time to do it right?

@Scorpio: I am not offended being labeled a fanboy. How is this in anyway offensive? As for being a troll, I doubt I can garner such a label with one post out of 5760. There are much better trolls than I. I wouldn't mind that label either though. You keep that in the back of your mind and you'll blunder into another one of the inane temper flares you exhibited in this thread and look rather silly yourself should you choose to keep trying to label people.

@JnR: I never bothered to read any of your posts fully as they were rather dull. After having stated that I am not now, or have I ever been out to make friends here, you bring up a point about friendship once again.

You need to check up on relevance when making a point my man. Don't be angry just because everyone else is. You think better that way.

SASUNARU<3

04-24-2006, 11:14 AM

Guy Gardner

04-24-2006, 02:49 PM

Here's my response, made more 'EXCITING' as I'm apparently too dull for BnD here.

My post was not meant to be a direct comparision to friends.

http://www.rg-rb.de/win/05-99/explosion.jpg

It was the fact that you came in here as a complete ass, and then complained of immaturity. If you would like maturity, you shouldn't have basically made up something about Rad to attack him on.

http://www.zone-sf.com/images/mreload2.jpg

I wasn't griefing, but I was a bit irrate that you basically attacked Rad as on the DC Fanboy on the payroll (Which is something I negrepped you for). Did I insult you? Yes, and I explained my reasoning for doing so. You basically made up a reasoning behind negrepping rad and went ahead to do so.

http://www.sksboards.com/sksinfo/AndreawithHKinredbikiniatroad.jpg

You should take some of your own advice. If you come in to start a flame war, you should be prepared for the consequences, like some honest neg reps. He justified it well, but you trying to justify your own neg rep (Be prepared for the consequences... Oooo!) is pretty lame.

http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/b7/26/a0_1_b.JPG

@Others: My post may have been a tad on the trollish side but it wasn't a flamewar, you made flames, not I. I never attacked anyone in particular. I only chastized Radishbak when he genuinely pissed me off by trying to justify a neg rep.

Ahahahaha...

It was a flamewar. This is the equivalent to walking into a bar in downtown Detroit and saying "Red Wings SUCKS!" or walking around Paris saying "FRANCE BLOWS!". Whether or not it's directed at one person, it was intended to anger people in some sort of way as an insult to their own interests. You obviously didn't intend to debate or actually have some sort of dialogue, so the only other real option here is that you intended to be a troll and flame ignorantly so as to attract DC fans.

http://www.bb62museum.org/images/bb62firing3.jpg

And chastizing is a hilarious way of putting your response. I'd say it was more like 'fanboy response #3'.

OMG STILL TO DULL NEED MORE EXPLOSIONS!!!!1!!

http://www.draglist.com/photoimages/Photos-2002/Jason%20DuChene%20suffered%20one%20of%20the%20mose %20intense%20funny%20car%20explosions%20in%20recen t%20memory.%20Photo%20by%20Sheryl%20Ogonoski.jpg

Comic Book Guy

04-24-2006, 04:24 PM

lekki, you basically made invitation with a flame war with the topic title alone, regardless. Even if it wasn't your intention.

And radishbak's a he?

Scorpio3.14

04-24-2006, 06:50 PM

@Scorpio: I am not offended being labeled a fanboy. How is this in anyway offensive? As for being a troll, I doubt I can garner such a label with one post out of 5760. There are much better trolls than I. I wouldn't mind that label either though. You keep that in the back of your mind and you'll blunder into another one of the inane temper flares you exhibited in this thread and look rather silly yourself should you choose to keep trying to label people.

Oh, trust me, Im not that one that looked silly in this thread. That was all you. You just seem to be the only one who cant see it.

Green Lantern

04-25-2006, 12:47 AM

lekki, you basically made invitation with a flame war with the topic title alone, regardless. Even if it wasn't your intention.

And radishbak's a he?

Last time I checked I was :P

lekki's cool its all good.

@JnR- WOW!:nuts

I vote we all should post exciting pictures whenever we post!

lekki

04-25-2006, 06:15 AM

Wow, you all should look up what flaming is. It's a direct attack on a member which I have refrained from.

I suggest you all learn the full meanings of words before you try them out:thumbs

JnR: I didn't make up anything on Rad, he and I have also sorted it out in private so please don't be a fucking moron. If the person in question understood exaclty what I said and where I was coming from, who the hell are you to say contrary?

Scropio: *sigh

Cable:Outstanding contribution. Very articulate and to the point and ultimately wrong unfortunately but you are welcome to your...Ah whatever.

ComicbookGuy: Hey, I know I wanted tempers to fly but I hate that morons here say that I actually started the flaming when I didn't. I made a couple of statements that pissed off some.
Keyword is some. Not everyone was pissed and some immediately saw the true purpose of this thread.

Like I said before, some of you just like to be mad and jump on the bandwagon when everyone is mad at someone.

Guy Gardner

04-25-2006, 06:28 AM

Wow, you all should look up what flaming is. It's a direct attack on a member which I have refrained from.

Flaming, flameBAITING (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_bait)... both of them are wrong. You came in with the purpose of angering people into a reaction. Flamebaiting begets flaming. I hope you can understand that.

I suggest you all learn the full meanings of words before you try them out:thumbs

I hope you learn how to put concepts like 'balanced arguments' and 'maturity' into action as well. You obviously don't know exactly what they mean yet, judging by your refusal to admit that you basically came in trying to start a fight, got one, and now you're forced to backtrack.

JnR: I didn't make up anything on Rad, he and I have also sorted it out in private so please don't be a fucking moron. If the person in question understood exaclty what I said and where I was coming from, who the hell are you to say contrary?

... Uh, do you fucking read what you post? How the hell am I supposed to know that you and Rad are okay, which is cleared up, oh, a day or so AFTER I make my post? Do you have any sense of revelancy or time? Plus

And radishbak, you're very disappointing.
I could've neg repped you everytime you needlessly decided to bash Marvel in pretty much any thread you've made in this section of NF but I didn't.

You make it seem like DC pays you to be their defender.

That's pretty fucking accusatory, with little to no evidence on it. So I stand by my statement. I started flaming when you flamed Rad, and it was no worse that what you just did. Christ, learn to internalize blame.

Scropio: *sigh

Cable:Outstanding contribution. Very articulate and to the point and ultimately wrong unfortunately but you are welcome to your...Ah whatever.

Hey, still more than you've done so far.

ComicbookGuy: Hey, I know I wanted tempers to fly but I hate that morons here say that I actually started the flaming when I didn't. I made a couple of statements that pissed off some.
Keyword is some. Not everyone was pissed and some immediately saw the true purpose of this thread.

Actually, Rad neg repped you, and then YOU accused Rad of being on the DC payroll and stupid stuff like that. Coupled with your obvious flame-baiting and immature, trollish argument, it's pretty obvious that you were in the wrong. Accept it.

The true purpose of this thread was flamebaiting, pure and simple. You just admitted to it; You wanted 'tempers to fly'.

Like I said before, some of you just like to be mad and jump on the bandwagon when everyone is mad at someone.

You acted like a flaming troll. I didn't get mad, I got frustrated when I tried to make points that you absolutely refused to listen to or address properly, coupled with the fact that you made an absolutely moronic and untrue accusation at a fellow respected forum-goer.