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View Full Version : The ArchVastroode Theory (spoilers)


ArchVastroode
04-07-2006, 09:28 AM
now i havent been a big part of these forums but i've decided i would post my lil view on the bleach world. we'll call it the ArchVastroode theory, like it? kinda goes along with my...user...nam....anyways heavy aizen fans might not enjoy this lil take on it. but ah well everything cant be rival schools. or can it? anyways this is long, i apologize, dont read it because of that i wouldnt blame you...well..maybe a lil cause i typed it out...but in the end i wouldnt blame u that much cause it is so long...bet i should be saying something like (SPOILERS MAY FOLLOW) or some cool heads up thing like that huh? well to the drawin board fellows...

many things have led me to this theory hopefully they dont run roughshod over your logic i may be missing things, no one is perfect. but no first of all, i read all these threads concerning aizen, whether its just to fawn over his shaft level badness his power or in a versus character Y. and the point often brought up is that aizen is the ultimate bad guy and therefore most powerful in bleach and is automatically the baddest guy around. but i put forth the question, what if he isnt?

for some of you that might be a harder concept to grasp that for others but bear with me for a second. firstly i anticipate that there will be at least one more saga after this one as far as the bleach series is concerned so i doubt he is the Ultimate BadGuy. secondly, and more to the point, often times the apparent bad guy isnt always the ultimate badguy. take earlier in the series for example, if you would go back to the time right after Byakuya defeated ichigo with a quick shunpo, one could have assumed that he was the ultimate bad guy from that one incident. but as we find out later he wasnt even the most powerful captain in SS, behind yamamoto and aizen, and im one of the camp that believes shunsui and ukitate are also more powerful and more experienced than he. so what if there were a similar case with aizen? now its clear from the manga that aizen is fairly high up there heirarchy wise, im not tryin to say otherwise. but i also want you all to consider the possibility that there may be one more powerful than aizen. what if there was a vastroode who was running the show with aizen or maybe solely running the show itself.

now some at this point may be running and saying theres no proof of this but consider, namely aizen fans, that there were arankaru and vaizaards before aizen stepped on the scene. we know this because it was commented on multiple times within the manga. so what? look at the statement made by isshin about them progressin faster than urahara predicted blamed namely on aizen. but they were progressin towards becoming more perfected
arankaru before aizen stepped on the scene? what if there were someone, a vastroode per se, that was behind the convertin of hollows into arankaru? now that may seem slightly far fetched in itself i guess. it could be something that occurs naturally though rarely within the hollow world. but if that were so why were urahara and isshin talkin about how they made preparations for this if it were something natural? in my opinion at some point urahara found out about someone or multiple someones of the hollow race tryin to perfect the arankaru process thus why he created Hyokyou in an effort to create what essentially would be an equalizer. and i believe he may have presented it to other captains as a solution, and was cast down for it. maybe not for the actual suggestion or creation of it, but for the application. i believe he used it on, himself, isshin, most likely yoruichi, and maybe that mysterious injured guy who got a brief lil segment during the whole battle in SS. i also believe that these captains operated on a different level than the current one, possibly a more powerful one. they seem idolized for a reason.

but i believe that isshin, his wife(if shes not human), yoruichi, and urahara became vaizaards to combat what they percieved as an approaching danger. on a side note, many people cast urahara's shikai in an unfair light. when it was casually cast aside his main focus as stated by his words was to show that he could control how much energy he could put into it. not that he was necessarily puttin all his power into it, just enough that it would destroy the arrancar that he was battlin at that moment, and by
Ulquiorra having to step in and defect the blow proves that he accomplished that and Ulquiorra said he would have lost that time to both of them at that time not vice versa, just a heads up people. but back on point, i believe isshin was a vaizaard and then later rejected it. its implied with his conversation with urahara. urahara doesnt want him to blame him for his decrease in power, and isshin says it wouldnt really be his fault it would JUST be the limit of his OWN abilities. implyin abilities that werent his own, hollow anyone? and then urahara asks him how he feels INSIDE, and he says he didnt hate it as much as he said he did, then he had to clarify that he meant the hollow. this to me implies that maybe he did become a vaizaard but couldnt handle the hollow half of his persona and decided that he no longer wanted it to be apart of him. then theres the injured guy, i just think he's apart of it cause he was thrown in there for a reason, a sidebar to introduce him like that means he will return to the story later and i assume it'll be durin this saga implyin he would be someone with enough power/knowledge to be discerable from others. thats just a pet theory really, well all of it is.

but lets move on. another thing about it all is the words of tousen, that he decided the way of following aizen was the less bloody one. now i've seen a few theories about that, and cant really say i disagree with them. but for me, it would make sense him sayin that, if there was goin to be an upcoming battle between the arrancar and SS and he decided that maybe SS joining with the arrancar would be the less bloody paths, the two uniting. also consider the fact that aizen contacted the hollow world with his proposal, now i suppose its possible that he met with a group of hollows and reached an agreement with them, but organization implies a heirarchy, and wouldnt it fit so nicely if there was someone at the head of that heirarchy. possibly an archvastroode, tryin to perfect the process of creatin an arrancar to bypass the limitations of his or her own power and aizen coming with the possibility of speedin up that process, made a deal with aizen for a union of sorts. i would assume it would be urahara that would battle this hypothetical archvastroode and ichigo who would battle aizen. and if im not right, i welcome the idea that urahara predicted this outcome and prepared for aizen before aizen made his first move.

i apologize for all that, its late for me and my words tend to meander on my best days and i may have forgotten to point out some things i intended to. but basically to sum it up, i think theres a big bad vastroode, who will come later and beat people up. whether it is below aizen, i dont know, but its possible that it may be above, meaning that its possible aizen might not be the Ultimate BadGuy afterall. i like apple pie and philly cheese sandwhiches and short walks on the beach.

zagman505
04-07-2006, 10:15 AM
interesting theory. a few things:

1. would u mind getting a name or at least a chapter number for 'the injured guy'? cuz i seriously hav no freaking idea who ur talking about.

2. i think you're reading way too deeply into isshin's words. O.o i mean, i suppose you could see them as meaning that, but i think its far more likely that he was just talking about how he felt about not being able to save masaki...

3. if masaki was really a vaizard, do u honestly think that a wimpy hollow like the grand fisher could hav taken her down? i don't think so.

4. i just think that tousen's a bit mental now, w/ all his talk about having a purpose making it justified, and his refusal to allow ppl to be disrespectful to aizen and all.

5. i nvr thought that byakuya was the ultimate bad guy. i think it would be too weird if he were to appear so early, and as we had seen by ichigo's battle with renji, there was a ton more to the shinigami world and the job of being shinigami than we had known before.

but other than those things that i can think of right now, i like it =)

HumanRage
04-07-2006, 12:46 PM
interesting theory. a few things:

1. would u mind getting a name or at least a chapter number for 'the injured guy'? cuz i seriously hav no freaking idea who ur talking about.


I think it's the 12th division captain, the one caughing blood when he overdo too much
if not, I can't see any other :|

blazingshadow
04-07-2006, 04:54 PM
aizen is probably the ultimate bad guy or he will be the ultimate bad guy. i say this with confidence because i believe that aizen was 1 of urahara's hybridization prototypes along with the vaizards. aizen probably has enough power to take on the vaizards all by himself without converting into a vaizard himself and when he gets the power of the hougyoku he will become even stronger by becoming the perfect hybrid.

why urahara doesn't stop them? simply because he can't. urahara is uber strong and all but i believe that his potential is dwarfed by ichigo and aizen.

Trias
04-07-2006, 08:00 PM
Not bad, actually, has got very good points. You indeed are reading way too deeply into isshin's words, but you did make very possible theories out of there.

Hmm. Things I would say:

Hiyori or Shinji (I don't remember which one) stated that there is no return from the Vaizard form, it would be possible that Isshin know a return and Vaizards do not, but still only clear statement is Shinji's. (Or hiyori's)

Last of the Arrancar
04-07-2006, 08:09 PM
now some at this point may be running and saying theres no proof of this but consider, namely aizen fans, that there were arankaru and vaizaards before aizen stepped on the scene. we know this because it was commented on multiple times within the manga. so what? look at the statement made by isshin about them progressin faster than urahara predicted blamed namely on aizen. but they were progressin towards becoming more perfected
arankaru before aizen stepped on the scene? what if there were someone, a vastroode per se, that was behind the convertin of hollows into arankaru? now that may seem slightly far fetched in itself i guess. it could be something that occurs naturally though rarely within the hollow world.

I don't think the hollows could have hybridized on their own like whe using the Hougyoku, well, maybe perhaps in 2 million years ....
I also believe the Vastorodes are the ones who started experimenting with tearing of masks ( maybe they didn't use it on themselves , but on some meaningless hollows ). It would be nice to have more info on how it was done before ( and now with the Hougyoku ), but somehow I doubt Kishi will provide much info.
Also if you look at the arrancar in chapter 25, they have these things attached to their mask ( on end is in the maks, the other in the skin where there used to be mask ), maybe they needed that to prevent their mask from regrowing. Rambling ....
As I said on the other forum, there must be some uber Vastorode(s) with whom Aizen got into contact with. But why they want to let him rule them .... can't fathom it.

Trias
04-08-2006, 08:06 AM
Well, if there are some Uber Vastroodes that still let Aizen rule them, it's probably because Uber Vasties want to be perfected, perfected into the stage that they are the ultimate beings. After being perfect, they would easily thrown Aizen, the tool they used to be perfected, away.

Pestilence
04-09-2006, 08:58 PM
It's very plausible that there is a high level hollow who is controlling/ conspiring with Aizen. I doubt Aizen will be allowed to live much after hybridization is complete. In case I'm not clear, I think the Vastroodes will off him.

Deranged
04-10-2006, 09:09 AM
A very good theory.

I myself wouldn't delve too deeply in the second meaning of words since this is a translation and things are lost from their original without the context.

Aizen, although uber strong now is not definately the ultimate bad guy (but its nice to have people labled). Others seem likely. Urahara is shady enough to be a backstage manipulator (maybe not in a vilianish sense but there is potential). Also in the third volume, at the end we see grand fisher in what seems to be an arrancar form, way before Aizen got the hyuokyu (sp?).

The arrancar we see taking off grand fishers mask, turns up again as one of Aizen's arrancar. Did Aizen really need the hyoukyu or not. Maybe Grand fisher had no affiliation to Aizen and was a product of experiments done by the real villian. It is indeed possible that there is a very high level hollow running things and has even penetrated Aizen's ranks with possible spies and as with all ultimate villians, we find out he had a hand in everything from the very beginning.

A very good theory you have here, indeed. It makes me think... well, think more...

Last of the Arrancar
04-10-2006, 02:58 PM
It's very plausible that there is a high level hollow who is controlling/ conspiring with Aizen. I doubt Aizen will be allowed to live much after hybridization is complete. In case I'm not clear, I think the Vastroodes will off him.

My hopes exactly :)

The arrancar we see taking off grand fishers mask, turns up again as one of Aizen's arrancar. Did Aizen really need the hyoukyu or not. Maybe Grand fisher had no affiliation to Aizen and was a product of experiments done by the real villian. It is indeed possible that there is a very high level hollow running things and has even penetrated Aizen's ranks with possible spies and as with all ultimate villians, we find out he had a hand in everything from the very beginning.

So where did you see that Arrancar in Aizen's ranks ? The other one, sitting on top of that shattered shaft look-a-like is said to be Deiroy, but I'm not 100 % convinced of that, but the other one, at the bottom ... some said it was Grimm, but that's very unlikely ... but who is it then ?

Indeed it was never said in the manga that grand Fisher was sent by Aizen. Isshin just assumed, cause he turned up at the time he did. So he could have no connection to Aizen.
If he was created by the Vastorode side, then they have still got some perfecting to do, because Grand Fisher was swatted like a fly. So maybe they thought it would be wisest to use Aizen/ infiltrate his group. If so, when the Vasties want to get rid of Aizen, what are the Arrancar loyal to him gonna do. We'll see a hollow vs hollow frenzy ( < --- juicy :) ).

Maybe oh maybe, we'll go on a trip to Hueco Mundo after the good side has done their training .... * keeps fingers crossed for it*

Trias
04-10-2006, 04:51 PM
So where did you see that Arrancar in Aizen's ranks ? The other one, sitting on top of that shattered shaft look-a-like is said to be Deiroy, but I'm not 100 % convinced of that, but the other one, at the bottom ... some said it was Grimm, but that's very unlikely ... but who is it then ?

They sure look like Deiroy and grimmjaw. Deiroy was obvious if you ask me, and that Hollow's and Grimm's features were nearly same. Both have got fair hair with nearly same style, both have got light coloued eyes, both have got no eyebrow. Also, it looked like the only arrancar cared about Deiroy was Grimm. Even his other comrades didn't give a shit about his death at all. Their past would explain their "connection" or relationship. And it looks like, if he was Grimjaw... Grimjaw hadn't thrown his mask by the time Grand Fisher throwed it. Deiroy was already maskless. May be Deiroy was the one took of the mask of Grimmjaw, even though he was weaker than him... That would explain why Grimmjaw wanted Deiroy's killers' deaths extre painful.

Deranged
04-11-2006, 09:15 AM
The real concern is whether delroy and grimmjaw possibly were working independently or were part of a larger organisation. Aizen thinks hes all that but maybe he's being duped, quite easily in fact.

Last of the Arrancar
04-11-2006, 03:34 PM
They sure look like Deiroy and grimmjaw. Deiroy was obvious if you ask me, and that Hollow's and Grimm's features were nearly same. Both have got fair hair with nearly same style, both have got light coloued eyes, both have got no eyebrow. Also, it looked like the only arrancar cared about Deiroy was Grimm. Even his other comrades didn't give a shit about his death at all. Their past would explain their "connection" or relationship. And it looks like, if he was Grimjaw... Grimjaw hadn't thrown his mask by the time Grand Fisher throwed it. Deiroy was already maskless. May be Deiroy was the one took of the mask of Grimmjaw, even though he was weaker than him... That would explain why Grimmjaw wanted Deiroy's killers' deaths extre painful.

Ok, first of all, I'm not saying it isn't them, it COULD be them, but I'm not a 100 % convinced.

Here you can see the differences :


It's big, beware
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7255/drabble2gv.jpg

Ok, Deiroy, both have bandages, both have unruly hair, but have weird teeth, although they are not completely the same. But the first one has NO visible mask , at all, whereas the later one has a big mask. The first one had a big say, seems leaderish even, saying he wasn't gonna solve GF's mess. Furthermore, the chance Deiroy took of his own mask first seems unlikely ( now we know Deiroy is supposed to be a Gillian ), is it even possible for a gillian to have the intelligence to take of his mask ? And even if some tore it off for him ( Grimm look-a-like seems like a dokter, butcher, arrancarizer, pick your choice ), did they , at that time, have the knowledge and skills to slice and dice a big giant Gillian into something human sized ?

Now Grimmjaw, the similarities are pretty vague, the hair looks somewhat alike, the eyes look somewhat alike , and there it ends pretty much. Btw Grimm does have eyebrows :) , as you can see. The thing that's bugging me the most are the masks, the first has a bird like beak and no visible teeth in the mask. It doesn't seem to fit with the huge ass teeth Grimm's mask has now.

So basically, it could be them ( and then Kubo changed their desings a lot), or not. But I really need Kubo to say it is them to fully believe it.

For the Grimm-Deiroy interaction, nothing really suggests they were friends really, sure, they happen to sit next to each other 1 time. And for Grimm following Deiroy during the fight, I think Deiroy was heading towards Chado, and Grimm was just heading in Ichigo's way ( the strongest power source ), and since Ichigo was speeding towards Chado ... also Grimm didn't seem terribly upset with Deiroy's death, he was just commenting on them still hanging around.
Though an arrancar 'friendship' would be interesting....

Urahara
04-14-2006, 04:51 PM
Ok, first of all, I'm not saying it isn't them, it COULD be them, but I'm not a 100 % convinced.

Here you can see the differences :


It's big, beware
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7255/drabble2gv.jpg

Ok, Deiroy, both have bandages, both have unruly hair, but have weird teeth, although they are not completely the same. But the first one has NO visible mask , at all, whereas the later one has a big mask. The first one had a big say, seems leaderish even, saying he wasn't gonna solve GF's mess. Furthermore, the chance Deiroy took of his own mask first seems unlikely ( now we know Deiroy is supposed to be a Gillian ), is it even possible for a gillian to have the intelligence to take of his mask ? And even if some tore it off for him ( Grimm look-a-like seems like a dokter, butcher, arrancarizer, pick your choice ), did they , at that time, have the knowledge and skills to slice and dice a big giant Gillian into something human sized ?

Now Grimmjaw, the similarities are pretty vague, the hair looks somewhat alike, the eyes look somewhat alike , and there it ends pretty much. Btw Grimm does have eyebrows :) , as you can see. The thing that's bugging me the most are the masks, the first has a bird like beak and no visible teeth in the mask. It doesn't seem to fit with the huge ass teeth Grimm's mask has now.

So basically, it could be them ( and then Kubo changed their desings a lot), or not. But I really need Kubo to say it is them to fully believe it.

For the Grimm-Deiroy interaction, nothing really suggests they were friends really, sure, they happen to sit next to each other 1 time. And for Grimm following Deiroy during the fight, I think Deiroy was heading towards Chado, and Grimm was just heading in Ichigo's way ( the strongest power source ), and since Ichigo was speeding towards Chado ... also Grimm didn't seem terribly upset with Deiroy's death, he was just commenting on them still hanging around.
Though an arrancar 'friendship' would be interesting....


e.e; I swear to god you are one of the most intelligent dudes that I've seen posting here.

There hasn't been a single post by you that I've disagreed with lol. All your theories are backed up with so much evidence and such... lmfao, you gotta fan!

Last of the Arrancar
04-14-2006, 06:40 PM
LoL, tnx, ( ps I'm not a dude :) ) it's just that this topic really interests me, so I can make an effort to think up a good post.

Urahara
04-14-2006, 07:18 PM
LoL, tnx, ( ps I'm not a dude :) ) it's just that this topic really interests me, so I can make an effort to think up a good post.



Whoa, my bad for not acknowledging that.