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View Full Version : Obedience & the Milgram experiment


Pestilence
01-04-2006, 10:11 PM
What the experiment is (credit to http://www.wikipedia.com) Method of the experiment
For the experiment, subjects were recruited by newspaper ads and direct mail to participate in a study at Yale. The experiments themselves took place in two rooms in the basement of Linsly-Chittenden Hall on the university's Old Campus. The experiment was advertised as taking one hour, for which those responding would be paid $4.50. Participants were men between the ages of 20 and 50, coming from all educational backgrounds, ranging from an elementary school dropout to participants with doctoral degrees.

The participant and a confederate of the experimenter (an actor pretending to be another participant) were told by the experimenter that they would be participating in an experiment to test the effects of punishment on learning behavior.

A slip of paper was given to the participant and another to the confederate. The participant was led to believe that one of the slips said "learner" and the other said "teacher," and that the participants had been given the slips randomly. In fact, both slips said "teacher," but the actor claimed to have the slip that read "learner," thus guaranteeing that the participant was always the "teacher." At this point, the "teacher" and "learner" were separated into different rooms where they could communicate but not see each other. The confederate was sure to mention that he had a heart condition.

The "teacher" was given a 45-volt electric shock from the electro-shock generator as a sample of the shock that the "learner" would supposedly receive during the experiment. The "teacher" was then given a list of word pairs which he was to teach the learner. The teacher began by reading the list of word pairs to the learner. The teacher would then read the first word of each pair and read 4 possible answers. The learner would press a button to indicate his response. If the answer was incorrect, the learner would receive a shock, with the voltage increasing by 15 volts with each wrong answer. If correct, the teacher read the next word pair.

The teacher believed that for each wrong answer, the learner was receiving actual shocks. In reality, there were no shocks. After the learner was separated from the teacher, the learner set up a tape recorder integrated with the electro-shock generator, which played pre-recorded sounds for each shock level. After a number of voltage level increases, the actor started to bang on the wall that separated him from the teacher. After several times banging on the wall and complaining about his heart condition, the learner gave no further response to the questions and made no further complaints.

At this point many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Many test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Some continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. Some participants began to laugh nervously once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner.

If at any time the learner indicated his desire to halt the experiment, he was given a succession of verbal prods by the experimenter, in this order:

Please continue.
The experiment requires you to continue, please go on.
It is essential that you continue.
You have no choice, you must continue.
If the subject still wished to stop after all four successive verbal prods, the experiment was halted. Otherwise, it was halted after the subject had been given the maximum 450-volt shock three times in succession.

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Results
Milgram created a documentary film showing the experiment and its results, titled "Obedience", legitimate copies of which are hard to find today. He also produced a series of five other films on social psychology with Harry From, some of which touched on his experiments [1]. They may all be obtained from Penn State Media Services.

Before the experiment was conducted Milgram polled fellow psychologists as to what the results would be. They unanimously believed that only a few sadists would be prepared to give the maximum voltage.

In Milgram's first set of experiments, 65 percent (27 out of 40) of experimental participants administered the experiment's final 450-volt shock, though many were quite uncomfortable in doing so; everyone paused at some point and questioned the experiment, some even saying they would return the cheque for the money they were paid. No participant steadfastly refused to give further shocks before the 300-volt level. Variants of the experiment were later performed by Milgram himself and other psychologists around the world with similar results. Apart from confirming the original results the variations have tested variables in the experimental setup.

Thomas Blass of the University of Maryland (who is also the author of a biography of Milgram, called The Man who shocked the World) performed a meta-analysis on the results of repeated performances of the experiment (done at various times since, in the US and elsewhere). He found that the percentage of participants who are prepared to inflict fatal voltages remains remarkably constant, between 61% and 66%, regardless of time or location (a popular account of Blass' results was published in Psychology Today, March/April 2002). The full results were published in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology. [Blass, 1999]

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Reactions
The experiment raised questions about the ethics of scientific experimentation itself because of the extreme emotional stress suffered by the participants (even though it could be said that this stress was brought on by their own free actions). Most modern scientists would consider the experiment unethical today, though it resulted in valuable insights into human psychology.

In Milgram's defense, 84 percent of former participants surveyed later said they were "glad" or "very glad" to have participated and 15 percent chose neutral (92% of all former participants responding). Many later wrote expressing thanks. Milgram repeatedly received offers of assistance and requests to join his staff from former participants.

Six years later (during the height of the Vietnam War), one of the participants in the experiment sent correspondence to Milgram, explaining why they were "glad" to have been involved despite the apparent levels of stress:

"While I was a subject [participant] in 1964, though I believed that I was hurting someone, I was totally unaware of why I was doing so. Few people ever realize when they are acting according to their own beliefs and when they are meekly submitting to authority. ... To permit myself to be drafted with the understanding that I am submitting to authority's demand to do something very wrong would make me frightened of myself. ... I am fully prepared to go to jail if I am not granted Conscientious Objector status. Indeed, it is the only course I could take to be faithful to what I believe. My only hope is that members of my board act equally according to their conscience..."
However, not everyone went through the life-changing experience reported by some former participants. Participants were not fully debriefed by modern standards, and exit interviews appeared to indicate that many seemed to never fully understand the nature of the experiment.

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Variations
Milgram describes 19 variations of the experiment that he conducted in Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View. In general, he found that when the immediacy of the victim was increased, compliance decreased, and when immediacy of the authority increased, compliance increased (Experiments 1–4). For instance, in one variation where participants received instructions from the experimenter only by telephone (Experiment 2), compliance greatly decreased; interestingly, a number of participants deceived the experimenter by pretending to continue the experiment. In the variation where immediacy of the "learner" was closest, participants had to physically hold the learner's arm onto a shock plate, which decreased compliance. In this latter condition 30 percent still completed the experiment.

In Experiment 8, women were used as participants (all of Milgram's other experiments used only men). Obedience did not differ significantly, though they indicated experiencing higher levels of stress.

In one version (Experiment 10), Milgram rented a modest office in Bridgeport, Connecticut, purporting to be run by a commercial entity called "Research Associates of Bridgeport" with no apparent connection to Yale, in order to eliminate the prestige of the university as a possible factor influencing participants' behavior. The results of this experiment did not greatly differ from those conducted at the Yale campus.

Milgram also combined the power of authority with that of conformity. In these experiments, the participant was joined by one or two additional "teachers" (who were actually actors, like the "learner"). The behavior of the participants' apparent peers strongly affected results. When two additional teachers refused to comply (Experiment 17), only four participants of 40 continued the experiment. In another version, (Experiment 18) the participant performed a subsidiary task with another "teacher" who complied fully. In this variation only three of 40 defied the experimenter

This is scary guys. We all say we wouldn't fall into that trap, but I hope this makes you question yourself. It's quite likely that you will fall into this trap, that you will be tricked into becoming an agent of injustice. Think again about the validity of the "following orders" defense. For all of you who condemn sodiers who torture under order, put yourself in that position. I don't really care if anyone relpies to this, I just want you to think about it. How unwavering is your conscience?

Haruka
01-04-2006, 10:20 PM
OH wow, mental torture. It's not a very reliable experiment though.

Near
01-05-2006, 12:05 AM
as for soldier obedience, I think the general consensus is that its understandable, but still wrong.

rimpelcut
01-05-2006, 01:51 AM
I would not continue. I don't like when I am beeing played. rather stop then go on with something fishy. If I needed the money I would continue. But seriously if you hear the man say he has a weak hart, then thats enough for me to stop. The whole psychology test relies on the fact that allot of people are followers and rely on outside superficial sources to make up their judgement. Someone that would think for himself won't get into the conflict of doubts or choice.

Copyright
01-05-2006, 02:28 AM
But seriously if you hear the man say he has a weak hart, then thats enough for me to stop.

Would you say that if it were a life and death situation, say on a battlefield... If you stopped that man may then put a round through your head. If your opinion then changes where do you draw the line....
Just because a boy cries wolf, it does not neccesarily mean that there is danger, It could simply be an exclamation. Compassion is a dangerous tool

Razgriez
01-05-2006, 03:02 AM
Im going into a field that may put me into this situation. Ill make sure to read up on Geneva convention laws before I do anything because I do know that in the military you can defy orders given to that extreme.

Id seriously question why the damn person who is about to be shocked has a weak heart and why hes the test subject.

rimpelcut
01-05-2006, 03:21 AM
Would you say that if it were a life and death situation, say on a battlefield... If you stopped that man may then put a round through your head. If your opinion then changes where do you draw the line....
Just because a boy cries wolf, it does not neccesarily mean that there is danger, It could simply be an exclamation. Compassion is a dangerous tool

Compassion is when you follow standards not moral. Because moral is what you create and if you accept the moral of others you are just following. Like I said if I needed the money for the experiment I wouldn't care. On the battlefield you can't think about what it is all about, you need to act to stay alive. you need to be in the moment.

edit edit: by need I mean really need.

Pestilence
01-05-2006, 11:19 AM
...Like I said if I needed the money for the experiment I wouldn't care. On the battlefield you can't think about what it is all about, you need to act to stay alive. you need to be in the moment.

edit edit: by need I mean really need.

This kind of thinking is what gets people in trouble. Trust me, it won't hold up in court. If the situation is between doing something that is wrong or staying alive, society would rather have you die. Think about the options for young German males in the WWII era "Be a nazi vs....die". So no, you can't just be in the moment even for you own survival.

rimpelcut
01-05-2006, 05:59 PM
What you mean if I where to fight with nazis and then get suide in court? I wouldn't join the war because I would know that it would not be the only country left in the world. If I could not do anything else I would fight in the war and if the enemy captured me and wants me dead then what can I do?
If you take action out of doubt and choice then you make mistakes. If you take action without choice how can you do any better?

Pestilence
01-05-2006, 06:57 PM
What you mean if I where to fight with nazis and then get suide in court? I wouldn't join the war because I would know that it would not be the only country left in the world. If I could not do anything else I would fight in the war and if the enemy captured me and wants me dead then what can I do?...

In many past wars, possible soldiers were between a rock and a hard place. A young man who chose not to serve, or did serve and refused to carry out a horrendous order, was ostracized, imprisoned, or executed. Soldiers that did as they were told were prosecuted later.

What I'm getting at is that it is ludicrous to expect anyone to not follow orders. Yet, even if the penalty for refusing to torture a prisoner is death, sociey would expect that a person choose death.

rimpelcut
01-05-2006, 07:07 PM
yeah thats true but in the case of the experiment you have freedom. Even if you are in such a imprisonment you should always search for freedom not the temporary kind like when you say ok ok i'll do it.