The Flash vs All of Marvel's villans (no cosmics or preptime whores)

[Green Lantern]

Is there any non-cosmic, non-preptime villan in Marvel who could take down the Flash??

As yet, I cannot think of any :P

Interdimensional travel ftw?

[Rice Ball]

Dr Doom(no Prep) is a sorcerer (about the only sorta thing that could counter Flash)

Kang could take him too i'd bet.

Also Cable prime (he was a Villan at one stage)

[korican04]

Well if the flash went for the kill and not for a submission type beating then, I can't really think of one. He could always act faster than any villain can think. He can become intangible, if you touch him he can vibrate and your hand will blow up.
He can also time travel with out a machine, he can steal all your speed and basically not being able to move.
His powers don't really make sense and if he were trying to kill you, your pretty much screwed. Unfortunately wally doesn't like to kill so he won't do anything to too terrible to a villain.

[Id]

Deathstroke took him down, so maybe blackpanther can to.

[lucky]

deathstroke is a preptime whore :P and also knows flash's powers.


He set off a series of bombs near simultaneously around his body, knowing that flash would run around the bombs... he then stuck a sword behind him at the only non-bombed place flash could go to get to him. Crazyyy.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


if this is a fight where everyone is thrown into a massive arena with the flash with no prep and flash is utterly merciless, then i honestly can't see anyone taking him out. :S He can take them all out...


But then again i heard of some psychics that have psionic shields around their bodies at all times.... but then again flash's light speed punches can probably lobotomize all of them by hitting their psionic shields :P

[korican04]

^ yes but imagine if wally was vibrating when he ran up to deathstroke...bye bye slade.
Now imagine deathstroke's mind/brain in flash's body.:S

[Id]

Magneto with his Force Field up for protection, stands maybe one shot If he stops the his blood Flow.

Or maybe Magneto can simply take away the gravity force from Flash, If Flash is running really fast with no friction he would fly of strait to space.

Or maybe Magneto can rob Flash the internal volts that the Flashes brain and shut it down.

Ice man can put up barrieres of ice and try to frezze his blood.\

Xaviar can possibly cast Illusions and projections making Flash thing thier are sevral walls and obsticles before Xavair Mind Blast him.

Um does Shaman X-Man or Jesus Cable count?

[lucky]

well honestly, and quite stupidly, the flash really is fast enough to take them out before they even plan to make any move against him.


magneto and iceman would have to see him to aim at him... and even if they're just being defensive and makes barriers, he could just vibrate through them.


Plus iceman, xavier, xman and jesus cable arent villains.... mostly. :P

[Gunners]

Yeh all the thing is some ideas might work but could they pull it of fast enough???? i think flash can move so fast he can go back in time, something like that anyway.

[Id]

well honestly, and quite stupidly, the flash really is fast enough to take them out before they even plan to make any move against him.


magneto and iceman would have to see him to aim at him... and even if they're just being defensive and makes barriers, he could just vibrate through them.


Plus iceman, xavier, xman and jesus cable arent villains.... mostly. :P

They are just ideas. Mind you :cool

Exodus makes psionc ramps around himself and Flash just runs up to the skies at light speed.:laugh

[anbutofu]

hrmmm what about the most unlikely hero? kitty pride? flash thinking he can hit her before she fades, trys to punch her, going through her where she instantly phases him and he is stuck falling through the universe.
but more realistically any psychic could create a mental illusion that gets pwned by flash who then is lobotomized once his guard is down.

[vagnard]

I don't know too much about Flash (using the full extent of his powers). Could he defeat Superman?

[pandajoe]

didnt deathstroke only take out kid flash

[Rice Ball]

Onslaught? :p

[konflikti]

I don't know too much about Flash (using the full extent of his powers). Could he defeat Superman?
Probably not, because Superman is nearly his speed and a lot stronger(Flash compensates with speed force tricks though). And he can fly too.

[Gooba]

Onslaught created a Sun from nothing, I think he doesn't count in this fight.

[Insipidipity]

Juggernaut? Molecule Man? Mephisto?
I don't think they're cosmics, but their power rivals them.

[Id]

classic Juggernaut, can take whatever Flash throws at him but I really doubt hed be able lay one finger on him?

[Id]

Ok serioulsy thou Abyss. Flash falls into one of his shadows and he is screwed

or

AoA Domino, With luck she beat Flash.

[vagnard]

but can't flash vibrate through Superman and destroy him from inside or something like that?...I suppose that with Speed Force he can move before Superman can react and fly..

[korican04]

If superman can vibrate at the same frequency as the flash then he would be ok. Superman can vibrate his body also. If flash can touch superman before he gets a chance to fly flash can steal all his speed and then blow him up or something.
I was thinking juggernaught might be able not to be killed by flash but, an infinite mass punch might be able to stop him. If flash tried to vibrate through juggy would he explode or would his mystic thing prevent his destruction?

Molecule man is powerful, but he is still a "regular" person, so a knife to the throat would kill him. Wolverine almost killed him and he's a still person to the flash. Molecule man would have to think of what to do to flash, by then flash would have already punched off his face.

Mephisto could do it in his dimension.

[Arilou]

Hmmm, villains only?

I think Super Skrull could possibly take him. (Invisible forcefield around self, psionic based so it can't be vibrated through, Flash tries to punch something he can't see, *splat* because that's what happens when you run at the speed of light and hit something)

[BladeofTheChad]

The Flash(Wally West) is my favorite superhero ever, and he could even take out Goku to me...

[earthshine]

flash has no way to hurt juggs, or blob, and he will eventually get tired after hitting them billions of times with no effect

[Arilou]

Another combo:
Shang Chi+Leech.
Leech turns on his powers. Wally comes running to punch him, Wallys powers fail, Shang Chi kicks his ass. (Since Shang Chi is a normal human, just bloody good at Kung-Fu, he wins)

[RAGING BONER]

Any telepath can decimate the flash and just about any other hero in the DC universe.

[Blitzomaru]

Well if this is place flash int eh marvel universe, any villain could kill him. In the JOINT VENTURE JLA vs. Avengers that both compaines signed to, it was stated as a fact that The Marvel universe has NO speed force, ergo the flash has no speed. He had a device made by the braniacs on the JLA side that gave him super speed, but was BEAT by QUICKSILVER, who runs at about 200mph. and I can't list all the people who've beaten Quicksilver on my fingers and toes. So if the Flash is dropped into the marvel universe, then he is just a guy in spandex with fighting skills. If he has that device, he's a faster guy in speedoes with fighting skills who could lose to any telepath. Now if we're dropping a villain into the DC universe, then I elect Scarlet Witch, who used to be a villian. It was also stated in that JLA/Avengers crossover that the DC universe's Chaos magic is much more powerful than the magic found in the Marvel universe, and it turned Wanda into a sort of mystical demigod who could single handedly take down half the JLA. And if Wanda is not a good choice because she kinda is a hero, then any magically inclined villain, such as Dr. Doom, MoonDragon or Baron Mordo.

Damn I'm good...

[BladeofTheChad]

Ok, lets say the Marvel Villians come to the DC Universe...but the Marvel Villians keep all their powers, but Flash has Speed Force...thenw ho would u pick?


you do know that Wally can run faster than someone can think right...so telepaths in the DC universe...are Fed by him anyway...

[Valdens]

wow, you people constantly say that flash couldnt break/phase through their psionic barriers and ignore tha fact that everyone is constantly saying flash runs faster than you think psionic powers=thinking.flash>thinking, so, flash>psionic powers. he takes all of them out in one second.

[CABLE]

Although I'm blanking right now, there are plenty who could beat the flash.

I'll post when I remember.

[BladeofTheChad]

yup, thats what i was getting at with the flash running faster than you think...

[korican04]

Well if this is place flash int eh marvel universe, any villain could kill him. In the JOINT VENTURE JLA vs. Avengers that both compaines signed to, it was stated as a fact that The Marvel universe has NO speed force, ergo the flash has no speed. He had a device made by the braniacs on the JLA side that gave him super speed, but was BEAT by QUICKSILVER, who runs at about 200mph. and I can't list all the people who've beaten Quicksilver on my fingers and toes. So if the Flash is dropped into the marvel universe, then he is just a guy in spandex with fighting skills. If he has that device, he's a faster guy in speedoes with fighting skills who could lose to any telepath. Now if we're dropping a villain into the DC universe, then I elect Scarlet Witch, who used to be a villian. It was also stated in that JLA/Avengers crossover that the DC universe's Chaos magic is much more powerful than the magic found in the Marvel universe, and it turned Wanda into a sort of mystical demigod who could single handedly take down half the JLA. And if Wanda is not a good choice because she kinda is a hero, then any magically inclined villain, such as Dr. Doom, MoonDragon or Baron Mordo.

Damn I'm good...

You know why they did all that right?
They needed to depower the dc team and powerup the marvel team otherwise it would have been flash getting all the items and rapage. That's why they needed scarlet witch to have that power up so she could easily transport the avengers.

Also one thing they f'ed up on with the whole flash access to the speed force thing. Flash's costume is made of speed force (yes it makes no sense), so he should have been butt naked in the marvel world.

Any of those magic users would go nuts in the dc's universe like scarlet witch, and while they are queezing trying to get used to the chaos magic, flash would just pick them off at ludicrous speed.

But yeah magic users are the best way to go against flash.

[Blitzomaru]

Since he is not a pretime whore or a cosmic, does Dormamu, the arch-nemesis of Dr.Strange count? He once was a human who became a being of pure magical energy. He is not a cosmic, though he is worshipped in his dimension. If Dr. Strange wanted to, he could forsake his humanity and become a being of pure magical energy as well. Magical beings such as Dormamu cannot be hurt with physical means, only magic or a cosmic level being can hurt them. So the flash would be completely helpless against Dormamu. I win again!!!

[lucky]

I think the flash can take out the majority of the villains but would still lose at the end.

Although I'm blanking right now, there are plenty who could beat the flash.

I'll post when I remember.


you're right. But keep in mind that in those fights flash doesn't go for the kill. When you hold back you're usually significantly weaker... this is a no-holds barred flash vs. fight.

Well if this is place flash int eh marvel universe, any villain could kill him. In the JOINT VENTURE JLA vs. Avengers that both compaines signed to, it was stated as a fact that The Marvel universe has NO speed force, ergo the flash has no speed. He had a device made by the braniacs on the JLA side that gave him super speed, but was BEAT by QUICKSILVER, who runs at about 200mph. and I can't list all the people who've beaten Quicksilver on my fingers and toes. So if the Flash is dropped into the marvel universe, then he is just a guy in spandex with fighting skills. If he has that device, he's a faster guy in speedoes with fighting skills who could lose to any telepath.

quicksilver runs like 600 mph... plus this fight isn't flash w/o speed force against marvel villains... lol it doesn't make sense to put up a fight with marvel supervillains on one side and a normal powerless man on the other side. :S

And don't forget that the flash is MUCH faster than the speed of thought... so if he doesn't hesitate, he can take out the telepaths.

classic Juggernaut, can take whatever Flash throws at him but I really doubt hed be able lay one finger on him?


lol that's true... i don't think he can hurt juggernaut at all, as juggernaut is considered totally physically invulnerable.

[Chamcham Trigger]

Couldn't evil professor X do something? I remember hearing about an evil professor X. Or maybe Doom could do something.

[Havoc]

Sinister, can The Flash even kill this guy? You need to explain this fight better, because if you dropped him in the middle of nowhere a strong telepath could sense his presence before he even knew where they where.

[Scorpio3.14]

lol that's true... i don't think he can hurt juggernaut at all, as juggernaut is considered totally physically invulnerable.

Run back in time to before Juggernaut was granted his powers and then kill him? lol Time travel is too cheap XD

[lucky]

Sinister, can The Flash even kill this guy? You need to explain this fight better, because if you dropped him in the middle of nowhere a strong telepath could sense his presence before he even knew where they where.

Couldn't evil professor X do something? I remember hearing about an evil professor X. Or maybe Doom could do something.

This is without preptime thing... dooms is god with preptime.


I'm saying that without preptime, if all of a sudden all the players are thrown into a massive arena with the rules of the game suddenly put into their minds (marvel take out flash/flash take out marvel) simultaneously, the flash can honestly take out most of them before they even THINK a single thought. He's that fast.


Those with natural defenses (juggernaut, villains with psionic shields always up) would probalby take him out at the end but the majority of hte villains don't have anything that can counter flash--not if they don't have preptime or reaction fast enough to take them out (which NONE of them have).

[Arilou]

Can flash see the invisible?

Because otherwise he might be kind of screwed.

[lucky]

Because otherwise he might be kind of screwed.

lol. probably. which marvel villain leaves an invisible shield around him constantly? without having to do it conciously...

[Arilou]

lol. probably. which marvel villain leaves an invisible shield around him constantly? without having to do it conciously...

There's that guy who killed everyone in who got near him.... (heck, since Flash seems to basically rely on touching people wouldn't anyone with a "death-touch" kind of power be pretty nasty?)

EDIT: And just to clarify, Flash *cannot* run faster than light. If he does he starts travelling backwards in time and all sorts of funky stuff happens. Light speed is, for all practical purposes, his max speed in a normal fight.

Anoyne with cosmic awareness would probably be able to predict his movements before he made them anyway (Genis-Vell, Silver Surfer, etc. etc.) and thus could concievably predict his movements.

[lucky]

EDIT: And just to clarify, Flash *cannot* run faster than light. If he does he starts travelling backwards in time and all sorts of funky stuff happens. Light speed is, for all practical purposes, his max speed in a normal fight.

Anoyne with cosmic awareness would probably be able to predict his movements before he made them anyway (Genis-Vell, Silver Surfer, etc. etc.) and thus could concievably predict his movements.

lol actuallyyyy...


Alright here it comes!
The Most ridiculous thing the Flash has ever done in terms of speed and the writers majorly screwed up, if you do the math on it is this,
In the comics:
A nuclear bomb went off in a city in korea, .00001 microseconds later which is .0000000001 seconds. The flash in that time, carried 532,000 people 35 miles away.
Let's say he carried them 2 at a time, that means he traveled 532,000x35milesx2/2=18,620,000 miles in .0000000001 seconds. that's over a trillion times the speed of light!! BAHAHAHHAHA the writers screwed up there..
There is no way yondaime can even think of moving half a million people away from an explosion in .00001 seconds. let alone carrying them.

http://web.mit.edu/fucruz/www/pics/flash1.jpg
http://web.mit.edu/fucruz/www/pics/flash2.jpg



Silver Surfer is considered somewhat cosmic, right? lol isn't he not allowed in this thread? :P

[earthshine]

Originally Posted by Arilou
EDIT: And just to clarify, Flash *cannot* run faster than light. If he does he starts travelling backwards in time and all sorts of funky stuff happens. Light speed is, for all practical purposes, his max speed in a normal fight.

Anoyne with cosmic awareness would probably be able to predict his movements before he made them anyway (Genis-Vell, Silver Surfer, etc. etc.) and thus could concievably predict his movements.

lol actuallyyyy...


Quote:
Originally Posted by korican04
Alright here it comes!
The Most ridiculous thing the Flash has ever done in terms of speed and the writers majorly screwed up, if you do the math on it is this,
In the comics:
A nuclear bomb went off in a city in korea, .00001 microseconds later which is .0000000001 seconds. The flash in that time, carried 532,000 people 35 miles away.
Let's say he carried them 2 at a time, that means he traveled 532,000x35milesx2/2=18,620,000 miles in .0000000001 seconds. that's over a trillion times the speed of light!! BAHAHAHHAHA the writers screwed up there..
There is no way yondaime can even think of moving half a million people away from an explosion in .00001 seconds. let alone carrying them.




im sorry, but that is BULLSHIT maybe he can move that fast with no problem, but how did the people survive lightspeed travel?


really tho, flash could do jack shit against juggs, he would probobly break his hand. invincible is invincible

[Blitzomaru]

So like I said. Dormamu. Flash can't hurt a magical being. and if Slade can stab flash with a sword while pretty much standing still, then I'm sure Dormamru can move with enough speed to incapacitate him with a spell or two.

[korican04]

im sorry, but that is BULLSHIT maybe he can move that fast with no problem, but how did the people survive lightspeed travel?


really tho, flash could do jack shit against juggs, he would probobly break his hand. invincible is invincible
The speed force protects the people that flash wants to protect. Yeah it's kind of a cop out way of explaining things but that's what happends. It's been done plenty of times.

Juggernaught is invincible to most things, but really he's a villain who has been stopped on many occasions. An infinite mass punch might be able to stop him, it won't kill him but it'll send him a couple thousand miles away.

[Havoc]

lol actuallyyyy...

http://web.mit.edu/fucruz/www/pics/flash2.jpg

Silver Surfer is considered somewhat cosmic, right? lol isn't he not allowed in this thread? :P


If you actually read the pic it says he moved at nearly light speed.:wink

[korican04]

Ya, that's what it says. But if you do the calc, nearly light speed would have saved like 1 person in that time. lol

There have been more instances where the writers can't do proper math.

[Havoc]

Ya, that's what it says. But if you do the calc, nearly light speed would have saved like 1 person in that time. lol


Lol yea I know. It's crazy.

[Nybarius]

The Vision (in one of his evil incarnations) could take him. Why?

a) He has an electrical nervous system, hence he thinks at the speed of light (no chemical messages to slow him down).

b) He can alter his density. He could wait until Flash was running through him, then solidify. Flash = dead.

Game over?

[korican04]

The Vision (in one of his evil incarnations) could take him. Why?

a) He has an electrical nervous system, hence he thinks at the speed of light (no chemical messages to slow him down).

b) He can alter his density. He could wait until Flash was running through him, then solidify. Flash = dead.

Game over?
he's a computer so it also takes processing time.
What if flash vibrates through him when he's shifting density, he's still exciting his molecules and blows up. But that's a good way of beating him.

[Havoc]

he's a computer so it also takes processing time.
What if flash vibrates through him when he's shifting density, he's still exciting his molecules and blows up. But that's a good way of beating him.


But who's to say Flash would know that. He could be dead before then.

[unknowndanex]

for some reason i've been holdin it down for magneto these past two days and i will continue today. expanding on ID's plan for magneto beating the flash, the forcefield would actually work considering the flash vibrates through OBJECTS not energy. and since there is a lot of calculating going on, considering that going the speed of light or past the speed of light actually makes u a being of light for awhile, magneto could in theory manipulate the flash once he starts moving.

using laws of physics light speed is slowed by denser objects like water or glass to speeds less than 3/4 or 2/3 the speed of light which means he is left slightly opened if vibrating through something and its called refraction. and because light depends on the refractive index that leads to dispersion which is a distortion of electromagentic waves (which would happen in flash's body) which magento controls. also because of the electromagnetic radiation emitted by magnetic fields that also slows down light. magneto emits magnetic fields basically at all times.

either way, flash would be slowed down if fighting magneto just by his presence alone and could actually be somewhat manipulated by him as well.

AHEM, HURRAY FOR MAGNETO!!!!!!!!

[Arilou]

Problem is, Flash doesen't do that. That's what the Speed Force is for actually, it prevents him from literally becoming One with the Universe as soon as he reaches c.

[unknowndanex]

if u look at how the speed force is described, it is basically referring to where they are once they are a being of light. it is basically the other side of light but a normal person't perception of what is going on is that they are a being of light who can exist on the other side now. the speed force basically just powers people who are not naturally fast. and if i can remember there was a point where Wally West started to transform into energy before Max Mercury explained to him what was going on.

[korican04]

But who's to say Flash would know that. He could be dead before then.
Yeah but he would feel the density moving and just react. He does this all the time when something is putting pressure on him. If he gets shot in the back as soon as he feels any pressure he naturally vibrates. vision goes boom.


Flash also fights magenta whose just a female version of magneto and he has beaten her. After much thought though, wally isn't the smartest. He held back because he used to bang her and Magenta controled the iron in his blood, so that could work if magnus works fast enough. Magneto has gotten stabbed by wolverine, if wolverine can surprise him, someone going light speed can too.

Applying physnacks to flash doesn't work the man can phase through objects and time travel, and somehow becomes infinite mass and is alright afterwards, or the biggest one was when he ran out of a black hole -_-. 99% of the stuff he does doesn't make any sense.

Anyone with the power can take wally down, it's just if they can pull it off in time or safely. Magneto if he starts off flying could do it.

[Id]

Well here are some more that might take down Flash.

Proteus- Reality Warper

Legion- Psionic user of the Highest level.

Strfe- Psionic user of the Highest level.

[unknowndanex]

wasn't that a team effort when wolverine stabbed magento, one on one we saw what happened to wolverine, his admantium was in magneto's closet for all we know. magenta is not nearly or a fraction as powerful as magneto, she only generates attraction and repulsion, she really has not control over the spectrum, she is highly limited in what she can do.

KORICAN DON'T DISGRACE MAGNETO BY COMPARING HIM TO MAGENTA!!!!!!!!!!!!

dah well, i do agree with your last statement though, the strategy i gave him would work but the question is would he use it, and the flying part u put in would help as well.

[earthshine]

proteus would have him. he controlls reality, he wills it, no more speed force, and he is pure energy, so he prob can think at the speed of light

[Id]

wasn't that a team effort when wolverine stabbed magento, one on one we saw what happened to wolverine, his admantium was in magneto's closet for all we know. magenta is not nearly or a fraction as powerful as magneto, she only generates attraction and repulsion, she really has not control over the spectrum, she is highly limited in what she can do.

KORICAN DON'T DISGRACE MAGNETO BY COMPARING HIM TO MAGENTA!!!!!!!!!!!!

dah well, i do agree with your last statement though, the strategy i gave him would work but the question is would he use it, and the flying part u put in would help as well.


huh........:blink

[pnoypridz]

anyone here hate HoM because wat they did to magneto =..(

the only consolation they gave me is that the did the same thing to jubilee ^_^

[Id]

anyone here hate HoM because wat they did to magneto =..(

the only consolation they gave me is that the did the same thing to jubilee ^_^


Yeah that lil bitch took away Mag's powers.:mad But before she took away magnetos powers he was pawning everyone. (The scene where he stopped a sentinal in mid air was fucking sweet:cool )

[korican04]

wasn't that a team effort when wolverine stabbed magento, one on one we saw what happened to wolverine, his admantium was in magneto's closet for all we know. magenta is not nearly or a fraction as powerful as magneto, she only generates attraction and repulsion, she really has not control over the spectrum, she is highly limited in what she can do.

KORICAN DON'T DISGRACE MAGNETO BY COMPARING HIM TO MAGENTA!!!!!!!!!!!!

dah well, i do agree with your last statement though, the strategy i gave him would work but the question is would he use it, and the flying part u put in would help as well.
Naw wolverine just walked up to him after the fight and just stabbed him, it was actually pretty funny. xavier yells out NNOOOOoooooooooo. lol

yeah yeah, magenta is nothing compared to magneto, I agree.

But still flash has dealt with a lot. And it's pretty ridiculous some of his things he's pulled out of thin air.

[unknowndanex]

oh damn, i know which comic u talkin bout now, my brother has that one. that did trip me out.

and i do hate HoM for what they did to Magneto. first they take juggernaut's power in the 8th day and now Magneto's in HoM. don't take Gambit next marvel.

[Green Lantern]

Flash outran the creation of the universe didn't he?
And a black hole?

This thread goes to prove that Marvel need to amp up their heroes (and villains) more, as right now, they ain't strong enough :P

[Nybarius]

I'VE GOT IT!

Sebastian Shaw

He gains strength by absorbing kinetic energy. Flash is fucked.

[Green Lantern]

Lol- Flash steals his speed, and leaves him standing as still as a rock for eternity- Then what Nybs? :P

[Nybarius]

For Flash to steal his speed he'd have to get near him with his incredible speed, but if he does that it would empower Shaw incredibly, and drain the Flash's own strength.

Then Shaw shoves Flash into Vision who pwn0rz him! :nuts

[Id]

Well Marvel does have someone that can match Flash in pure speed and no im not talking about Silver Surfer.

Its that one guy Thanos took down to gain one of his infnity gem that grants him speed. He might have a chance.

[Nybarius]

His name is The Runner.

[Arilou]

But then, he is a Cosmic. (All the Elders of the Universe are)

[Arilou]

Flash outran the creation of the universe didn't he?
And a black hole?

This thread goes to prove that Marvel need to amp up their heroes (and villains) more, as right now, they ain't strong enough :P

Please, God NO!

I like my heroes at the point where a guy with a gun is still a credible (if not terribly dangeorous) threat.

[BladeofTheChad]

There is someone faster than The Runner in Marvel universe....I forget his name, but he beat the runner in a Quasar(sp?) Issue...They had a race around the Universe and this guy got to light speed after training for so long...Although he isnt a villian, so i guess the villians are still fucked...

[Green Lantern]

So the point of this thread is that 'if' Flash joined the Avengers, or a similar organisation, all of Marvel's villains (except for a few) would be in Rykers by now wouldn't they?

hmmmm- makes an interesting comic book idea don't you think?

"What if the Flash joined the Marvel Universe (and had the Speed force)"

[BladeofTheChad]

So the point of this thread is that 'if' Flash joined the Avengers, or a similar organisation, all of Marvel's villains (except for a few) would be in Rykers by now wouldn't they?

hmmmm- makes an interesting comic book idea don't you think?

"What if the Flash joined the Marvel Universe (and had the Speed force)"


and that is exactly why the Speed Force was cut off from the marvel Universe...b/c Flash w/ Speed Force = Marvel fucked...

[unknowndanex]

not necessarily because the speed force is nothing but an explanation for what happens when someone goes the speed of light that wasn't born with the ability. marvel would not be fucked, the flash is being totally overrated now.

[korican04]

the speed force is the force that gives the true speedsters their speed and powers, not just when they go into light speed. It's the extradimensional source which flash taps into. That's why they took out the speed force in marvel, so flash woudn't get every item by himself. His costume is made of the speed force it self (yeah it makes no sense but that's what it is). He can vibrate his body using the speed force. It's not just an explanation for when something goes light speed. The speed force also causes flash to be frictionless when going so fast so his body won't incinerate from the drag of the air. It breathes for him when going at crazy speeds. It also heightens flashes perception. It allows him to steal speed away from things/people and it allows him to give people or things speed. The flash once stole the speed of everyone on the entire planet -_-.

All the things that the flash does that make no sense is because of the speed force. lol

I think the only thing being overratted is wally, not necesarrily the concept of the flash or the being that uses the speed force. Because if you really wanted to destroy or kill someone even some of the most powerful villains you can do it with one of the crazy powers that the speed force gives you. It's just that wally isn't that cruel. Wally has gotten owned before so it's not like he's unstoppable.

(oh and you need a pic or avatar for a ninja rank i think.)

[Id]

Lol- Flash steals his speed, and leaves him standing as still as a rock for eternity- Then what Nybs? :P



There is no need to bump up Marvel cara powers. Instead they should just craft thier moments well the way DeathStroke took down the Flash.

And in marvel thier is plenty of Meta Humans that have reflxes and a brain. Its more than enof to take down Flash.

And besides Flash out running the cosmics is a lil over the top. You could classify him as borderline cosmic as well.

But pit Flash agianst Silver Surfer, Thanos, or even Human Lucifer and watch him get pawned left to right.

Its not like Flash goes all out agianst all his foes in the first place, so anyone Ala Magneto, Or Xaviar should do the trick in putting in placing him down.

[Scared Link]

We know Flash defeated Braniav by going the speed of light, however he says "I can never do that again" So I doubt he will win.

[Arilou]

the speed force is the force that gives the true speedsters their speed and powers, not just when they go into light speed. It's the extradimensional source which flash taps into. That's why they took out the speed force in marvel, so flash woudn't get every item by himself. His costume is made of the speed force it self (yeah it makes no sense but that's what it is). He can vibrate his body using the speed force. It's not just an explanation for when something goes light speed. The speed force also causes flash to be frictionless when going so fast so his body won't incinerate from the drag of the air. It breathes for him when going at crazy speeds. It also heightens flashes perception. It allows him to steal speed away from things/people and it allows him to give people or things speed. The flash once stole the speed of everyone on the entire planet -_-.

All the things that the flash does that make no sense is because of the speed force. lol

I think the only thing being overratted is wally, not necesarrily the concept of the flash or the being that uses the speed force. Because if you really wanted to destroy or kill someone even some of the most powerful villains you can do it with one of the crazy powers that the speed force gives you. It's just that wally isn't that cruel. Wally has gotten owned before so it's not like he's unstoppable.

(oh and you need a pic or avatar for a ninja rank i think.)


It should be pointed out that Flash isn't the only one who can tap into the Speed Force. His nemesis (whose name I can't remember but is basically an evil Flash) can do it too. In JLA/Avengers Quicksilver could tap into the Speed Force once he entered the DCU.

[korican04]

^ you mean zoom.
Actually quicksilver couldn't tap into it.

[unknowndanex]

yeah it was revealed Quicksilver couldn't tap into the speed force in JLA/Avengers, he sucks that bad. in other comics a guy named Quicksilver can tap into it but that is Max Mercury.

and flash holding back can't be used as an excuse all the time, cause a lot of people in marvel don't use their power to its fullest potential.

thanks for the tip korican

[Arilou]

^ you mean zoom.
Actually quicksilver couldn't tap into it.

Actually he couldn't at the beginning but he learned to in one of the later ishes of the miniseries (or it might not have been JLA avengers, but I think it was)

He was matching flash's speed in one of the contests.

[lucky]

Considering silver surfer's superspeed powers... i know he can fly faster than light but i'm beginning to think that it's strictly during space travel... I do'nt recall any instances when he was fighting at super-superspeed... seems like he can't speed up his perception to superspeed.


Actually he couldn't at the beginning but he learned to in one of the later ishes of the miniseries (or it might not have been JLA avengers, but I think it was)

He was matching flash's speed in one of the contests.


he was able to match him later because the flash was running IN the marvel universe. Flash was wearing this contraption that allowed him to keep some residue from DCU's speed force so he can have 'some' superspeed powers.

[unknowndanex]

well don't underestimate the surfer in anything, it got to the point where some people thought u he couldn't fly without the board, but thats just cause he chose not to. surfer holds back and only fights the way he needs to, to win a fight.

Quicksilver has never tapped into the speed force, Lucky is right on his statement.

[Arilou]

Considering silver surfer's superspeed powers... i know he can fly faster than light but i'm beginning to think that it's strictly during space travel... I do'nt recall any instances when he was fighting at super-superspeed... seems like he can't speed up his perception to superspeed.


He doesen't because when he flies that fast he doesen't *have* to.

Case-in-point: He blew up a moon simply by flying straight through it.

he was able to match him later because the flash was running IN the marvel universe. Flash was wearing this contraption that allowed him to keep some residue from DCU's speed force so he can have 'some' superspeed powers.

No, that was a different time. IIRC it was after Quicksilver had been to the Flash Museum and learned about the Speed Force. He said something like "I think i could learn how to use it as well" Flash still won, but Pietro ran much faster than he usually did (and this was in the DC universe)

My favourite fight is *still* Wonder Woman vs. Hercules, poor Herc :p

[Cthulhu-versailles]

..Flash destory them all easily. Flash prime if he doesn't hold back and is willing to kill. Can do the following:

Hit them with punches that wipe them out of existences!
Vibrate the air at speeds that make it unbreathable.
Go back in time and to diffrent planes of existance.
And has out run death.

Realistically Flash can take down Jla, the writers are just forced to keep him contained. Flash is GOD. Marvel is raped.

[braindx]

^^ Pretty much. Anyone who is the Flash has to have a major character flaw... like Wally's arrogance and most of the time they will have to be under sub-sonic speeds so they don't go around sonic booming buildings into rubble.

Flash not holding back could literally beat practically anything/anyone.

[Blitzomaru]

^^ Pretty much. Anyone who is the Flash has to have a major character flaw... like Wally's arrogance and most of the time they will have to be under sub-sonic speeds so they don't go around sonic booming buildings into rubble.

Flash not holding back could literally beat practically anything/anyone.

Which is why I said Dormamu. He can only be hurt by magic, which Flash doesn't know. So Flash can't hurt him. And Dormamu would eventually kill him.

[unknowndanex]

reasons for someone beating the Flash have been pretty much ignored in this thread, i have to agree with the Dormamu statement from Blitzomaru, i still go with Magneto, and i would go with Apocalypse.

[Green Lantern]

Magneto? Apocalypse?

Please explain how? Considering that Flash has dimensional travel abilities etc

[Id]

Magneto? Apocalypse?

Please explain how? Considering that Flash has dimensional travel abilities etc

Magneto simply places a magnetic barrier around him, and since Flash is still human and contains Iron in his blood he smahes him slef on to the barrier end of story.:cool

[Scorpio3.14]

Magneto simply places a magnetic barrier around him, and since Flash is still human and contains Iron in his blood he smahes him slef on to the barrier end of story.:cool

Electromagnitism moves as the speed of light. Flash > Speed of Light

Also, Magneto has to think before he can cast a magnetic field around someone. Flash > thought.

PLUS Flash can continually shift the phase of his molecules making them immune to Magneto's electromagnitism, this includes the iron in his blood. (He did a similar thing to shurg off the light bending gravity of a forming BLACK HOLE!!)

Pretty much any way you look at it Flash has Magneto beat.

[Valdens]

exactly scorpio. you are all like "deh psychic cast barrier! flash splat!" and smart ppl be all like "flash>thought psychic=thought flash<marvel villans". why do you "marvelvillantards" ignore us?!

[konflikti]

Everyone here is taking The Flash without character induced stupidity, yet placing such stupidities on the villains. The Flash normally attacks people the same second the battle starts, yet Magneto doesn't have his shield on all the time(and how do you think Flash will notice the shield before he hits it, I don't know if he could)? I'm saying, Flash doesn't usually go for the head in the first piko-second of the battle. He is your basic super-hero, so he chats a bit first. If you want to make him attack immediatly, you must use similar versions of the villains too.

[Yamato]

Magneto's defence is almost instant, yet I don't remember a fight that have started "instantly", there is always some talking or, "Hey, you in this red trashcan you will be next". Magneto wins :P

[Valdens]

say we use these versions of the villans. they are all attack first think later. flash STILL pwns them all in one second.

[Kyuubi Naruto]

Reading this has given me an interest. Can someone tell me exactly how strong the Flash is? Its mindblowing, I never knew he was this strong.

[Rice Ball]

It makes me hate DC comics even more :(

[Yamato]

Forget Magneto. Two words: Scarlet Witch :D

[Scorpio3.14]

Everyone here is taking The Flash without character induced stupidity, yet placing such stupidities on the villains. The Flash normally attacks people the same second the battle starts, yet Magneto doesn't have his shield on all the time(and how do you think Flash will notice the shield before he hits it, I don't know if he could)? I'm saying, Flash doesn't usually go for the head in the first piko-second of the battle. He is your basic super-hero, so he chats a bit first. If you want to make him attack immediatly, you must use similar versions of the villains too.

Actually I noted that even if we take Flash without attacking instantly and gave time for Magneto to put up his magnetic sheild, Flash could still phase through it. Wally can keep him self out of phase by vibrating so that he becomes "immaterial". In that phase nothing but the greatest of forces can effect him, He was standing next to a forming black hole once and was only starting to feel the effects once the light started bending inward. Magneto's magnetic force <<<<<< Black hole.

Also I look at this fight like I look at pretty much all battle dome fights. Two people, thrown into a random place and they both really want to kill each other. Otherwise half the fights in the battle dome wouldnt make sence :blink Under this situation, I dont see why Flash would hesitate.

[unknowndanex]

well actually flash wouldn't be able to do this against magneto. i'm back now to answer the question on once again how magneto would win.

magneto's mear presence will slow the flash's speed. this also happened to quicksilver (i know way slower person but the concept is the same) when he wanted to fight magneto when he got close he started to move in slow motion cause magneto has a constant magentic field at all times. The Flash would not be moving in slow motion, but he would be moving slow enough that magneto would take him out. and the flash can not phase through a magnetic field, considering he will be significantly slower than he normally is.

oh yeah, since both know that their gonna fight each other, magneto's genius comes into play and the fact that he will be in the air is an advantage as well.

and to scorpio:
another thing is that black holes and the electromagnetic spectrum are two totally different aspects so why are u comparing them. black hole is a concentration of mass and gravity prevents anything from escaping it, it doesn't actually affect the atoms. whereas the electromagnetic fields, electric fields, and magnetic fields interfere with the charges of the atoms.

speed of light depends on on the refractive index and the index depends on the frequency of light, light slows down in certain wavelengths and electromagnetic waves are one of them.

denser mediums can also make flash slower, such as water which brings me to another person that can beat him, Namor the Submariner.

[korican04]

^ you keep talking about light, flash isn't light, he's a person whose mass increases when approaching 186,000 miles/sec. And flash can go beyond light speed in a vacuum.

[unknowndanex]

ok one day someone is saying flash is greater or at the speed of light whenever he wants, now flash only approaches the speed of light and only goes beyond in a vacuum, can someone please be consistent

not really jumpin on u korican, but now inconsistencies are starting to show between everyone. i'm saying u're wrong or anyone else is, in actuallity i'll take your word.

either way, flash's speed is in actuality based on light, considering u just described the properties of light to me in you statement. in any medium other than a vacuum light can only approach 186,000 miles/sec but not reach it.

and either way, he will still be slowed down when approaching magneto, quicksilver doesn't move at light speeds and he was still moving in slow motion so it does expand to other areas.

and that is why flash was able to escape the black hole, it was because he had enough mass due to the increase.

[korican04]

This is the thing, flash isn't suppose to make sense. He can run at some high speed and have infinite mass and be fine. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't have to, it's a comic.

The gravitational pull of a black hole is greater than any force magneto can create, light can't even escape it. That's why it's black, no light is reflected or radiated from it. The flash overcame the black hole thing, by going beyond the max speed of light.
Yes it doesn't make sense, that's why i enjoy flash comics, they break physics laws all the time. Like when he was fighting zoom, they were fighting in between time, what does that even mean lol.

See this is the thing, one day flash is breaking black holes the next he's getting shanked by slade.

I'll post the pick later, it was issue 137 or something like that.

[Scorpio3.14]

and to scorpio:
another thing is that black holes and the electromagnetic spectrum are two totally different aspects so why are u comparing them. black hole is a concentration of mass and gravity prevents anything from escaping it, it doesn't actually affect the atoms. whereas the electromagnetic fields, electric fields, and magnetic fields interfere with the charges of the atoms.

Actually, they are more similar then you think in this situation, they are both forces. Gravity DOES effect atoms. In fact in the issue with the black hole Flash says, and I quote (I can post the pic if you want) "Im in my phasing form and I can still feel the tug on every atom." He said his phasing was the only thing keeping him from being ripped apart atom by atom by the singularity. Quicksilver can not phase, the iron in his blood is fully at the mercy of Magneto. Flash is very different, he can make himself "Immaterial" where his atoms are almost immune to the effects of outter forces on his body (only the super extreme effects of a black hole were enough for him to really feel it.)

speed of light depends on on the refractive index and the index depends on the frequency of light, light slows down in certain wavelengths and electromagnetic waves are one of them.

This does not apply to the Flash, the speed force protects him from any interference when moving like friction. Whenever he moves its as if he is in a vaccum. This means the reflactive index is always exactly 1.

[unknowndanex]

they way electromagnetic forces and black holes affect light are very different. not referring to flash but as a note: light can't escape a black hole because the gravitational field is so great that the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. the concept i have explained is that when light travels through a electromagnetic field it is slowed down til it leaves the field, these are two totally different concepts. quicksilver having iron in his blood had nothing to do with him running in slow motion. and black holes can actually leak things out do to hawking radiation (still not referring to Flash). gravity is not even considered a force as well, it is considered a curve in space in time, thats General Relativity.

dah well, i started it but i'm tired of thinkin bout physics i got test to study for.

back to the matter at hand, thats the thing with DC (i'm not a hater of DC), in some comics they wanna use physics to justify what they do then in another comic they'll break every single law. to elaborate on what korican said, u see him breaking black holes and then he gets shanked by deathstroke........ the guy actually melted himself before and pulled himself back together, it was Barry Allen but Wally is the better Flash so i assume he can do it as well.

i still believe magneto is one person that can easily take down the Flash because he'll slow down. and if the speed force (which is supposedly not based light) protected him from any interference why did he struggle so much with the black hole?

this is an interesting conversation, i am thoroughly enjoying this.

[Scorpio3.14]

the concept i have explained is that when light travels through a electromagnetic field it is slowed down til it leaves the field, these are two totally different concepts. quicksilver having iron in his blood had nothing to do with him running in slow motion.

Ok, now I get where you are coming from better. Someone had perviously said that Flash would be stopped or slowed because he contained Iron in his blood that would be effected by Magneto's magnetic field. Thats why I brought up the whole "phase" thing and I thought you were talking about the same thing. My bad.

The problem with what you are saying is that Flash is not light, he has mass. Light is literally electromagnetic radiation, it is a electromagnetic wave. That is why it interacts with electromagnetic fields and is slowed down (atleast in our frame of reference). The reason why Flash is different is because he has mass. He is moving at his speed because he has huge amounts of Kinetic energy (light does not have Kinetic energy becuase it dosnt have mass). Slowing light down in a electromagnetic field is very different from slowing an object with mass and kinetic energy down.

[unknowndanex]

so the speed force is kinetic energy? i don't know much bout the speed force cause they never go in depth on what it is.

but kinetic energy is in fact dependent on speed, so he builds up kinetic energy because of his speed. but i see where u comin from, i'm just confused with this speed force concept.

but i'm also saying since quicksilver was slowed down and he doesn't move at light speed and it wasn't because of iron, it had to be another reason, a reason that could affect the flash as well.

[Scorpio3.14]

so the speed force is kinetic energy? i don't know much bout the speed force cause they never go in depth on what it is.

No no, I wasnt saying the speed force was kinetic energy, Im saying the Flash has kinetic energy when moving while Light does not (so its much easier to slow down light then to slow down a fast moving object with mass).

but kinetic energy is in fact dependent on speed, so he builds up kinetic energy because of his speed. but i see where u comin from, i'm just confused with this speed force concept.

lol you should be confused because the speed force is never really explained well. Basically the speed force is a sentient energy source beyond the light barrier that power all speedsters in the DC universe (vague huh? lol). The speed force is basically used by the authors to counter any "physics breaking" issues. Like why dosnt Flash burn up from the air friction caused by moving that fast? What about extreme relativistic effects? Or why dosnt Flash's hand smash to a million pieces when hitting something at those speeds because of Newtons 3rd law? Well, because the speed force protects him from it.

but i'm also saying since quicksilver was slowed down and he doesn't move at light speed and it wasn't because of iron, it had to be another reason, a reason that could affect the flash as well.

Well as I stated before, I personally believe that the speed force would protect the Flash from any electromagnetic fields slowing him down (kinda like how he can travel at the speed of light in air when not even light can travel at the speed of light in air lol). Especially in his phase form, Flash runs as if nothing is in his way (he can even run through solid objects as if they wernt there) However, for the sake of this arguments lets say it does effect the flash.

Quicksilver's speed is around the speed of sound. Flash's is the speed of light. The speed of light is about 10^6 times greater then the speed of sound and since kinetic energy is proportional to velocity squared, the Flash would have 10^12 times as much kinetic energy as Quicksilver (to illustate my point thats 1,000,000,000,000 times greater or 1 trillion times greater). Slowing quicksilver and slowing the flash are two very differnt things lol

[earthshine]

speaking of flash, do they ever explain how flash has not gone insane?

seconds pass by like hours for him, whats it like waiting for people to talk? watching tv? how does he manage to speak normally?

[Hiruma]

I'm guessing the speed force must be able to turned off/on?

[Scorpio3.14]

speaking of flash, do they ever explain how flash has not gone insane?

seconds pass by like hours for him, whats it like waiting for people to talk? watching tv? how does he manage to speak normally?

Funny, about that... :P

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2630/flashv2174kebbin090rc.jpg

Ya, it can be turned on and off, although not always at will lol

[link 2 oblivion]

villens cause theres like a thousand of theM! but flash can run fast.

[earthshine]

villens cause theres like a thousand of theM! but flash can run fast.

flash can run fast???!! OMG, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? HOW FAST? I ALWAYS THOUGH HE COULD JUST TALK TO FISH!!!

[unknowndanex]

No no, I wasnt saying the speed force was kinetic energy, Im saying the Flash has kinetic energy when moving while Light does not (so its much easier to slow down light then to slow down a fast moving object with mass).



lol you should be confused because the speed force is never really explained well. Basically the speed force is a sentient energy source beyond the light barrier that power all speedsters in the DC universe (vague huh? lol). The speed force is basically used by the authors to counter any "physics breaking" issues. Like why dosnt Flash burn up from the air friction caused by moving that fast? What about extreme relativistic effects? Or why dosnt Flash's hand smash to a million pieces when hitting something at those speeds because of Newtons 3rd law? Well, because the speed force protects him from it.



Well as I stated before, I personally believe that the speed force would protect the Flash from any electromagnetic fields slowing him down (kinda like how he can travel at the speed of light in air when not even light can travel at the speed of light in air lol). Especially in his phase form, Flash runs as if nothing is in his way (he can even run through solid objects as if they wernt there) However, for the sake of this arguments lets say it does effect the flash.

Quicksilver's speed is around the speed of sound. Flash's is the speed of light. The speed of light is about 10^6 times greater then the speed of sound and since kinetic energy is proportional to velocity squared, the Flash would have 10^12 times as much kinetic energy as Quicksilver (to illustate my point thats 1,000,000,000,000 times greater or 1 trillion times greater). Slowing quicksilver and slowing the flash are two very differnt things lol


well at that point quicksilver was upgraded by the High Evolutionary so he was much faster than the speed of sound (damn HoM). but i wasn't saying Flash would move in slow motion and i think quicksilver was moving based on willpower alone to kill magneto because he injured himself by moving, he was in fact supposed to be stopped, i was just sayin that Flash speed would decrease dramatically probably to the speed of a cheetah or a bit faster. all theory though.

yeah i understand u on the Flash concepts, might as well call him the best person in DC. i bet if DC read our conversation they would depower the shit outta Flash or find away to eliminate or depower the speed force so we could know once and for all that Superman and Green Lantern are significantly better lol.

[braindx]

Flash is already "depowered." He has a superbig ego (underestimates virtually everyone) and he talks too much. Plus, he usually goes under sonic speeds on earth so he doesn't create sonic booms which destroy stuff around him.

[Arilou]

Funny, about that... :P

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/2630/flashv2174kebbin090rc.jpg

Ya, it can be turned on and off, although not always at will lol

Hehe, I always liked how he was described in Alan Moore's Swamp Thing: "A man so fast that his life was like running through a gallery of statues."

And Quicksilver suffers from (a less extreme) version of the same thing: He calls it PMS: "Permanent Maximoff Syndrome". "My entire life is like being stuck behind a guy who can't figure out how to use an ATM machine."


There's also a great scene in some comic where Pietro is playing the Piano. First there is this *terrible* sound, then he starts to play perfectly: "What was that terribly noise?" "I was practicing."

[Luckey]

Flash goes through them all at the speed of light while vibrating his body at the speed of light.