Asking For Existence:

[diglossiablues]

In light of all the religious debate here I'd like to make a proposition followed by a question (this will doubtlessly be familiar to some):

No matter what stance you take on the origin of reality/people, it seems to me that the idea that no individual asked to exist. Some creator made your soul, or the 'ole semen and egg started it -- but either way you being an "I" came about without prior permission from you.

In light of that (and I'm more interested in knowing what the atheists and agnostics think) what personal responsibility do you think you have to do something productive with existence excluding reasons of personal comfort?

[LZ]

why do we exist? do we exist? maybe we don't exist...can you prove it?

[diglossiablues]

why do we exist? do we exist? maybe we don't exist...can you prove it?

That may be... but it's a question I'd consider irrelevant at this point because I seem to perceive that I exist (and without going into something like solipsism which doesn't hold up well to scrutiny), I seem to perceive that there are others who also seem to perceive that they exist. For example: regardless of whether or not we really exist, if I were to stick a knife in your leg you'd feel a bit uncomfortable at the least (and likely very uncomfortable and probably pissed off).

The truth could be something entirely different, but I haven't heard or read anyone who could provide a compelling frame of reference for real knowledge of an existence outside of our 'being-in-the-phenomenological-world' as a sort of embodied transcendence. And it's in the scope of that, that I'm asking this question.

[call to arms]

So you mean by not wanting to become a part of life, you do not have the responsibility of "playing by the rules?" , or have I misunderstood?

(I'm noot to good at english)

[diglossiablues]

So you mean by not wanting to become a part of life, you do not have the responsibility of "playing by the rules?" , or have I misunderstood?

(I'm noot to good at english)

It was more of a question:

What responsibility do people think they have to "play by the rules" because they didn't ask for life in the first place? And why they came to their conclusion.

[rimpelcut]

maybe idividuality doesn't exist. everything about you except the film in your memory, memory in itself also isn't individual it is the same for all people.
I don't understand your question. Are you saying why are we not like god?

[princesstaco]

'Productive' is such a subjective term. I doubt we have much responsibility to be 'productive' simply because we have no way of knowing which activites are more productive than others. Something that seems helpful in the present might inadvertantly cause millions of deaths in the future.

And in a holistic sense- with a few exceptions- the actions of individuals don't really amount to much. Contributing to society by helping to build a bridge, for example, seems like a productive endevor. However, an individual's job could easily be filled by any number of interchangable people. And 100 years in the future the bridge may be long gone.

So I think (strictly on a holistic view- disregarding potential religious obligations) that the only responsibility people have is to attempt to reproduce and maintain the continuety of the species.

[rimpelcut]

Well it is very simple, live by the rules or die. Yo, you don't need to live, just die. But since I won't exist that would be kinda pointless. unless you don't want to exist.
But ofcourse I don't believe that you were put here without your permission and you go to heaven or somthing because then everybody would be doing it. It would be like taking a vacation.

[diglossiablues]

'Productive' is such a subjective term. I doubt we have much responsibility to be 'productive' simply because we have no way of knowing which activites are more productive than others. Something that seems helpful in the present might inadvertantly cause millions of deaths in the future.

And in a wholistic sense- with a few exceptions- the actions of individuals don't really amount to much. Contributing to society by helping to build a bridge, for example, seems like a productive endevor. However, an individual's job could easily be filled by any number of interchangable people. And 100 years in the future the bridge may be long gone.

So I think (strictly on a wholistic view- disregarding potential religious obligations) that the only responsibility people have is to attempt to reproduce and maintain the continuety of the species.

It's "holistic" first of all. However I can see that you are concerned about the future of the species, as am I... which doesn't necessarily mean fucking, although that helps in producing new members. Ah hell... Damn the beer. My usual lucid text aside... Why should we perpetuate the species, and why should that be a "duty"?... as it were.

[princesstaco]

Well, it isn't exactly a duty to reproduce. People who want to perpetuate the species tend to do so and the people who don't won't leave any offspring after they die. The offspring of the people who want to reproduce will more often than not want to perpetuate the species as well (due to genetic makeup/learned behavior from parents/whatever) which leads to a long chain of people who want to reproduce. Thus the species survives. Everyone who chooses not to perpetuate the species dies off leaving a population consisting mainly of people who want to reproduce. Or something like that.

Natural selection at its finest. (or would it be unnatural selection if people consciously chose not to reproduce? I don't care...)

[rimpelcut]

we men want to fuck. women want a baby.

[earthshine]

most humans do not feel they have a responsibility to anyone, they do what their instincts tell them. most do not follow rules out of a sense of duty, but out of fear, in our world, fear of prison, death and other things like that, in the after life, hell

[explicitkarma]

In light of that (and I'm more interested in knowing what the atheists and agnostics think) what personal responsibility do you think you have to do something productive with existence excluding reasons of personal comfort?

Well, regardless of whether I permitted it or not, I exist. Also, my existance affects those within my sphere of influence. Most of those within that sphere did not permit it encompassing them, moreso it did on its own. So, whether they or I wanted it or not, we formed attachments. Therefore, I feel "obligated to continue existing for others." Because, if I ended my existance simply because I did not ask for it, it would have negative effects on those I have formed attachments with.

[Tsukiyomi]

Thats the interesting aspect of suicide, its the conscious choice to no longer exist.

[rimpelcut]

most humans do not feel they have a responsibility to anyone, they do what their instincts tell them. most do not follow rules out of a sense of duty, but out of fear, in our world, fear of prison, death and other things like that, in the after life, hell

so are those ,fear, ,,,, hell, instinct?
People don't have to have responsibility to anyone, meaning they don't have to do a thing because the other might find it's needed. They only have a responsibility to themselfs meaning they are responsible in the world so they will help themselfs. life is selfish in nature. People that have fear or other things are ignorant because they don't use there intelligence and this means they don't use their instinct. afterall our instinct of fear comes from our intelligence saying we need to run or kill this thing because it is dangerous and our consciousness gets all these memorys of conduct and visions of pain and death and psychological stuff which we take as facts for what to do, for who we are> like a nerd won't fight< and all of this contradicts your intellingence saying: you need to run, you need to kill this guy, do something!
So you don't move forward and keep thinking about the fact that you are in danger. You are thinking about something that already is an answer: danger, you must get rid of danger. Someone that gets fear and keeps it is a man that keeps the emotion alive just like a muscle contraction and in fact it has everything to do with usable bodilyfunction.

[datchapin]

In light of that (and I'm more interested in knowing what the atheists and agnostics think) what personal responsibility do you think you have to do something productive with existence excluding reasons of personal comfort?
Well I am atheist but forget what agnostic is so here goes nothing. I believe we have a responsibility to maintain a balance with nature. Which I believe we are failing in, I think our own species reproduction has become to prolific throwing the balance out of whack, because of our overconsumption. I believe the balance will still hold for awhile (hundreds of yrs maybe) but we are coming to a tipping of the scale at which time life will no longer be able to sustain itself. Im not some nature freak but it doesnt take a genious to see that we are slowly destroying our home. I feel we are foolish for not seeing what is happening and trying to solve the problem. I guess its real complicated to explain but I think our purpose and the purpose of all life is to maintain a balance with each other. We all fullfill that purpose by living and dying, but i guess our fear or negative views of death get in the way. I know I will fullfill my purpose when I die but I also know that as a species we arent fullfilling our purpose. So that kinda makes me wonder wtf im tired of nobody seeing this. Sorry thats all i got for now. I hope some of you all get what im tryin to say. sorry if im not that articulate.