Robin's Strength [Archive]

pakku

09-24-2005, 10:28 AM

It's kind of debatable, because her power isn't as straight forward as the others. From what we've seen, her ability typically involves sprouting all kinds of arms and breaking bones... obviously, an awesome ability, but there are so many holes in it...

1) Logia fruits, as we've seen on Aokiji. There's pretty much no chance of her taking them by surprise because I assume they can feel the arms when they sprout right from their own bodies, so it's terribly easy to simply change into their element.

2) A very few paramecia. We all know Luffy's bones don't break, blah blah blah. There probably aren't really that many fruits, but off the top of my head... she's not strong enough to break the supa supa no mi, and her hands would slip right off the sube sube no mi.

3) Zoans. Changing forms within her grasp would almost definitely screw her up, especially changing into a smaller form (ie: Chopper going from uber werewolf mode to his usual cute mode) to escape.

4) Really strong or big guys. We've already seen how difficult it is for her to fight enormous enemies in her fight with Yama, and I think her arms are way too weak to hold down somebody like Zoro, no matter how many of them there are.

So, yeah. Her powers are almost too specialized to be put among the brawlers of the crew... so I guess in general fighting ability I would put her a little behind Sanji. Of course, we haven't really seen her have a BIG fight, so my opinion may change.

Code

09-24-2005, 11:05 AM

Well I agree with what pakku said for the most part.

Though I'd definitely put her above Sanji at least in overall strength.

I don't think Zoan transformations should mess her up much, as it'd sprout on the surface of it. At most it probably would cancel out the technique but not harm her I'd say.

I'd put her behind Luffy, Zoro, and Franky. I doubt her techniques would work on Zoro simply due to his insane strength. I'd say she would be incapable of overpowering people who possess a lot of physical strength. Against Franky, well Franky seems to be up there with Luffy and Zoro in overall fighitng ability. Though thier battle mainly consisted of Franky surprising Luffy, but Franky didn't really seem to care much about Luffy's attacks. It'd be nice to see him in a one on one battle against to someone strong to really decide his overall strength.

Jones

09-24-2005, 11:08 AM

she's probably up there with the strongest three on the ship. (luffy, zoro, and sanji) i bet she is the weakest of them just because the physical strength of those 3 is to much for anyone to handle.

Maffy the Love Doctor

09-24-2005, 11:17 AM

i think the only person she can't defeat in the crew is luffy since he's rubber and she can't really break him like she can do with others. i guess she can choke him though, idk :P.

Code

09-24-2005, 11:21 AM

i think the only person she can't defeat in the crew is luffy since he's rubber and she can't really break him like she can do with others. i guess she can choke him though, idk :P.
To break them you have to overpower them. I doubt she'd be able to overpower Zoro who as just as much strength as Luffy. (Just the fact that he isn't rubber.)

Pell also wanted to have a rematch against her after his initial loss. I think he said something about not knowing her ability before.

Maffy the Love Doctor

09-24-2005, 11:24 AM

yeah, i was actually thinking that right after my post lol. she probobly couldn't overpower luffy or zoro. sanji or rumble ball chopper....maybe. the rest, she can overpower easily.

SeruraRenge

09-24-2005, 02:57 PM

Well, Robin's ability seems to matter with the size of the opponent. If it is a normal-sized person who doesn't know of her abilities, then she is almost god-like in battle. However, against someone who is of much larger stature (like that priest in Skypeia), she has a much harder time.

As for Franky....well, he seemed to be basically unfazed by all of Luffy's attacks. Then again, maybe they only fought evenly because he knew how Luffy fights, but Luffy knew nothing about Franky being a cyborg.

Hayate

09-25-2005, 07:39 AM

Luffy
Zoro
Robin
Sanji

(Dunno where to put Franky yet really)

I'd say she could beat Sanji as he hasn't really got upper body strength, all his power is in his legs, and it's not as if Love Cook would kick her ass anyways. :P

lekki

09-25-2005, 08:27 AM

Wait up, what makes you think Robin can beat Sanji? Sanji is supposed to be just as strong as Zoro from the way the author writes the manga.

Robin's arms seem to be as strong as she is and if you tug on them, it actually hurts her aswell.

Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Franky and a very Serious Chopper are probably all above her.

raziu

09-25-2005, 08:39 AM

@Lekki Sanji is weaker then Zoro. One Piece databook(forgot the name) shows Luffy And Zoro to have max strength and Sanji is a little below.

And about Robin strength....i agree with pakku:)

Code

09-25-2005, 04:41 PM

Wait up, what makes you think Robin can beat Sanji? Sanji is supposed to be just as strong as Zoro from the way the author writes the manga.

?

I've got the opposite impression. Zoro and Luffy are obviously suppposed to be equals, have they've even fought once in Alabasta.

Zoro: This is a great chance... to see which is stronger... "martial arts" or "swordsmanship"...
Luffy: Right!! Then let's find out!!!

And they were pretty much equal in the trade offs they had until it was interrupted by Nami... Along with that, as mentioned already, the One Piece "Databook" lists Zoro and Luffy at both 6 in strength, while Sanji is only a 5. (thegrandline.com has some info from the various books and some from the SBS in their One Piece section). So Sanji is a notch below Zoro.

And Sanji has never really shown any extreme feats of strengths, though yeah all his strength is in his feet. So I'm sure Robin should be able to take advantage of that.

Freija

09-26-2005, 05:11 PM

well aslong as it don't turn into something else and disperses, or will slide through your arms or bend, she can pretty much take down most humans.

SloppyJoe

09-27-2005, 03:49 AM

I would put her above sangi just because she's a woman and he's... sangi. Also she could imbolize his prime abilty pretty easilly
Luffy
Zoro
Robin
Sangi.
I'm not willing to put franky above or below any of them yet because we have YET. To see what he can do normally and what he can do when stressed to save his "nakama"

pek

09-27-2005, 06:51 AM

I cant really see how Sanji can only be 1 'level' lower then Zoro and Luffy, he should have 3 in strenght :/

Anyway, my ranking
Luffy & Zoro
Robin
Sanji

Wrath

09-30-2005, 07:34 PM

Physically, Sanji is roughly equal to Zoro, and possibly greater. This was shown in the Davy Back game where Zoro wasn't able to use his swords. They seemed very even in it.

However, Sanji's problem is that he doesn't have any tricks. He doesn't have a Devil Fruit power or Zoro's funky chi powers, so he's always going to be below Luffy and Zoro. Maybe he'll eat a DF later or learn some other tricks to bring him closer to them.

As for Robin, we haven't seen even 10% of her potential. Her powers are amazing. She can grow any part of her body out of anything organic. She doesn't even need to be in the room to fight someone, all she needs to do is grow some eyes out of something.

So far she hasn't had a real fight though. She had one fight in the Sky Island arc, but all that entailed was her leading the priest away from the ruins and then bringing the pwnage. Robin has yet to be genuinely challenged. Hopefully that will happen in this arc.

Meizu

09-30-2005, 11:39 PM

Robin is seriously strong, did people forget why she has such an high bounty to begin with? sinking all those damn battle ships its obvious even at a young age she had great ability, so being older she should have perfected them or atleast brought them to a higher level of control.

in all truth its useless to compair her to sanji, zoro and luffy.. they are the fighters of the Straw Hats and robin can be classified better with Nami and such. as in she fights when she needs to and does it smart.
much like in her only fight, she leaded his fat ass away, turned over his dials, lifted his ass up and off a cliff. plays it smart and uses her DF power wisely.

and how people say the power of the arms are a reflection of her own, then i need to ask how did she lift that fat bastard from hand to hand off the cliff, when she obviously couldnt lift him herself?

IN the case of sanji.. if its power, sanji wins.. but in a fight there is no chance Sanji would take an opening even if robin allowed one to open.. shes smart and like most say, his upper half is swift but lacks the power to break free from any sudden and swift DF attack from Robin. she can crack his back before he really notices the situation he is in.

Zoro would end up breaking Robins real arms by stressing the DF arms, much so the same in luffy's case. there is no fighting them for her and compairing is useless.

for normal people,she is an monster. her rang us unknown but as we know it is wide. so getting close is hard, it might even be outside of firing rang. in which rifles are useless.

SeruraRenge

10-01-2005, 03:39 AM

DrunkenYoshimaster

10-01-2005, 10:47 AM

damn I feel like an idiot for not remembering Luffy and Franky fighting. I mean I remember Luffy and them tearing up his place. And I remember Luffy fighting Ussop, and Ussop meeting Franky. But I cant remember Luffy ever even running into Franky directly. When was their fight?

SeruraRenge

10-01-2005, 02:21 PM

It was right before the foremen had announced that the Mugiwara crew was responsible. They came in, broke up the fight (which destroyed Dock One), and told everyone that Luffy's crew was responsible. The fight happened while Luffy and Nami were sitting in the water, and then Franky came and introduced himself, wanting revenge.

OrionsQuest

10-02-2005, 12:15 AM

I remember reading that chapter a while ago so I'm not to clear but was Luffy fighting to the fullest of his abilites. I remember most of his attacks were doing jack to Franky so I was just wondering.

Also I don't think we've seen what Robin is truley capable of yet to give a very good assesment of her strength.

Code

10-02-2005, 12:18 AM

I remember reading that chapter a while ago so I'm not to clear but was Luffy fighting to the fullest of his abilites. I remember most of his attacks were doing jack to Franky so I was just wondering.
Well I doubt he was going all out. But neither was Franky. But I'm sure he was definitely trying somewhat as he knows he was the one who messed up Usopp.

Meizu

10-02-2005, 03:30 AM

Franky was pissed so i think he was putting some effort into punishing Luffy, but Luffy wasnt going all out, more like he was testing the waters with attacks. he doesnt go al out in the start unless he is pissed or feels he has to like with Arlong or Crocodile.

And yes Robin did get the Bounty cuz of being able to read the lost history and such but my points still there, she sunk those battleships alone. and got away.

Robin VS Franky.. i would say she could break his back since he obviously stall has a spine, BUT he is seriously stronger than her and even tho i doubt he is on Zoro or Luffy level im sure he is at least at Sanji's. he is less of an 6 and more of a 5.

Robin VS- (win or lose?)

Buggy crew- win
Cabaji- win
Mohji- win (she find a way round the lion)
Buggy the clown - lose.
Kuro & Crew - Win
(she would catch him offguard once and its all she needs)
Priests - Win (she could has taken the all out)
shandia - lose
Smoker- lose
Ace- lose
Zoro-Lose
Sanji- Win
Alvida- Lose (slips off)
Arlong- lose
Chess- win
Aokiji- lose
Bellamy- win
(this can also be a lose pending on the battle itself)
Morgan- lose (too strong)
Chaka- win
Dolton- lose
Don Krieg- lose
Gin- win
Foxy- win
Fullbody-win
Hina- win
Yosaku & Jhonny - Win
(i only listed them cuz i consider them parttime straw hats and id like to see robin beat um up)
Vivi & Karoo- win
Kuromarimo- win
Mihawk- lose
Miss Valentine- win
bon clay- win (none development of upper body)
Mr.4-lose
Mr.5-Win
(could lose if Mr.5 used his powers with more skill and imagination)
pell- win
Chopper-lose or win
(depends what form he catches him in)
Wapol- win

all the people i can think of as of now.
Agree or disagree?

raziu

10-02-2005, 08:39 AM

Why do you think she would lose to don kreig or dolton?

Franckie

10-02-2005, 10:37 AM

I would put Robin below Luffy and Zoro and above all the other straw hats. She's definitely smarter than Sanji and has devil fruit powers. Zoro is freakishly strong and has been shown training and beating tougher opponents than Sanji and Luffy has fought and won against Crocodile, who was already too much for Robin so he could definitely smack her without worry.

Meizu

10-02-2005, 12:47 PM

Why do you think she would lose to don kreig or dolton?

Well With Kreig i simply see it as him being to strong, plus his weaponry would cover the distance in which robin uses to her advantage. i can see her most likely just leaving the fight but its still losing. he got pounded by luffy and still got back up... yes he was in an blind rage but robin is no where near as strong. just cuz luffy beats someone doesnt mean any less of there abilities..
(that only goes for Usopp defeated enemies)

and Dolton simply since he can use his DevilFruit power and strain her arms. his power is hes strenght. he got beat by chess threw dirty tactics.. he over powered chopper meaning he is Stronger. strong enough to put strain and break robins arms.

Kimi Sama

10-05-2005, 07:17 PM

Robins best way to take someone down seems to be simply to suddenly spring a dozen arms up on them and then snap thier back or neck. So yeah, as most of you have said, any normal human is totall screwed, because even if she isnt that strong, 10 or 20 arms is far too many for most people to handle, especialy all over a body at once.

For anyone who is weapon based, I think she has a huge advantage because she can suddenly pop an arm out and scew them over by messing with the weapon, like she did with that fat ass priest. For example she could make a hand appear and snatch someones sword or gun out of thier hands, and simply shoot them with it.

Zoro is a tricky one, because I think she could screw up all his techniques in a big way - imagine 10 arms grabbing his swords while he's trying to set up Oni Giri or Pheonix Lash, etc. Then again he's so insanely strong theres no way she'd be able to break him like she normally does, so she could prevent his attacks to some extent, but not actualy beat him.

One thing I thought of is that even if someone is too strong for her, she can still prevent them from attack. It doesnt matter if you're a total powerhouse, you're still going to get messed up if you get your eyes covered up in the middle of an attack, or if a hand appears on your leg and trips you over.

Oh one other thought, remember that she doesnt have to exclusively use her powers to win - as we saw with Crocodile, she isnt too fussed about simply stabbing somone, and I'm sure she has no problem firing a gun, too. So even someone too strong for her to kill directly is at a disadvantage. She can blindfold/trip them up, and then just shoot or stab them while they're distracted.

Obviously all logia users are totally unbeatable to her, but then again there are few people who do have any chance against them.

When it comes to the Strawhats, Luffy is way to strong for her, as is Zorro. Sanji doesn't seem abnormally strong when it comes to his upper body, so he's vulnerable to a neck snap. Chopper's form shifting might cause problems for her, and Rumble Ball's Strength Point is probably strong enough to resist her. If she catches him before that he's a gonner though. Nami and Usop have no chance, what with being unfortunatly normal.

SeruraRenge

10-05-2005, 10:10 PM

Plus, she couldn't beat Luffy cuz she can't simply snap his neck, or anything else. Rubber = no snap.

Meizu

10-06-2005, 01:04 AM

no question she can bring a man to his knees =P
Only ones i see giving a challenge or being unbeatable are
Luffy, Buggy and maybe Alvida.. i say her simply cuz i dont know what reaction her DF power would have to Robins. i see luffy as unbeatable to her and Buggy giving her some serious problems in an fight, with all his chop chop crap.

i know one thing, it would suck for someone to die at the hands of Buggy lmao! talk about a crappie way to die.

SeruraRenge

10-06-2005, 01:27 AM

no question she can bring a man to his knees =P
In more ways than one. Hehe, I have such a dirty mind:amuse . I gotta save that, right up there with "Who knows what Robin can do with those hands?"

Wrath

10-27-2005, 08:14 PM

Hands nothing, the true perverted potential lies in all the... other body parts she can make grow..

Gyroscope

10-27-2005, 09:09 PM

Sanji's strength lies in his Legs, Zoro's strength lies in his arms.
Physically Sanji's legs would be as strong as Zoro's Arms, However Zoro does have funky Chi attacks and weapons (the reason im guessing he has 1 more point than Sanji).
Robin could beat em both IMO (with enough arms).
It isnt about strength, its about technique.
Zoro is stronger physically (Sanji as well IMO, but the tardism here fails to surprise me....nm)
But honestly, whats he gonna do, if she just grabs his legsand breaks em (think Tashigi in ALabasta).
Everybody here is thinking of how He would overpower her, but he hasnt shown any display of strength in his legs or at least not as much as would be required to overpower a hundred pairs of arms breaking your joints and twisting your neck backwards at the same time.
Sanji would be similar.

I cant really see how Sanji can only be 1 'level' lower then Zoro and Luffy, he should have 3 in strenght :/

Just curious as to why you think this way?
Sanji definately hasnt been lacking in the strength department, definately not as low as your rating him =\

If anything i see Zoro as being weaker than Luffy, I really dont see him splitting apart a pair of scysrapers with his BARE HANDS.
The more i read OP, the more im convinced that Oda is making Luffy out to be the strongest with Zoro and Sanji as equals (theyr kinda like Kakashi n Gai)

RockLee

10-28-2005, 08:58 PM

I agree, while Luffy is the strongest (shonen manga! main protagonist=strongest guy EVAR!) Zoro and Sanji are the same to me. Zoro has his swords and a way to mentally focus his sttacks. Sanji.....names his attacks after food. Ah well, a cook to the end, I guess.

Gyroscope

10-28-2005, 09:22 PM

Actually even the difference between Luffy and Zoro/Sanji is not that great.While Luffy is stronger than them, the main difference is in their abilities.

I really cant see Luffy landing a "Anti manners Kick course" like Sanji does (he kicked a crocodile the size of GamaBunta)
Likewise i dont see Sanji or Zoro Splitting apart buildings like Luffy did nor do i see Sanji or Luffy land ranged attacks the way Zoro does.

I may eat my words though.Chapter 387 has some new stuff regarding Luffy.

Code

10-28-2005, 10:24 PM

Wrath

10-29-2005, 06:58 PM

Zoro and Luffy are always roughly as strong as each other.

Sanji was pretty clearly shown to be the physical equal of Zoro in the Davy Back Game, but what Sanji lacks is special abilities. All he does is kick things. He was pretty cool when he used the knives, but that was a one time special condition.

If Sanji ate a Devil Fruit or learned some sort of superpower then he'd be on the same level as Luffy and Zoro.

Gyroscope

10-30-2005, 07:55 AM

I don't see Zoro being weaker than Luffy. Especially since Oda went out of his way to make them fighting Alabasta, and the whole "...to see whose stronger, a swordsman or a fighter..."(or something like that) and they traded blows evenly till the fight was eventaully interrupted by Nami....

That would hardly be considered a fight.I could tell Zoro wasnt serious even before the fight started or wed see Luffy cut up in more than one place.Besides if Oda actually considered it serious, he wouldnt have shown it in a couple of frames, rather he would have shown both of them going all out using their techniques on each other.
That and Nami came in and clobbered them both in seconds.That doesnt mean Nami is the physical equivalent of Zoro and Luffy now does it.

Then I believe one of the One Piece books as stated before, listed Zoro and Luffy both the same is strength.

Other than the fact that Luffy tends to fight the strongest villains (well ones he's more suited to fighting lately such as Eneru, while earlier on Zoro was always injured when fighting the henchmen) there isn't much to suggest Luffy is stronger, and there's evidence stating they're equal.
Zoro wasnt injured before fighting Daz Boris, nor was he injured before he fought the Priest with the Dog.
The only time I remember him being injured was when he fought Hachi after being cut up by Mihawk.
But then again, the mermen henchmen wernt really a match for the strawhats really.Zoro would have finished the fight in seconds had he not been injured, like what Sanji did.

Sanji, I don't believe is up to their level...

Oda writes the manga in such a way were you believe that Sanji and Zoro are equal, while Luffy is ahead of them.
This started way back in Little Garden ever since they had the hunting competition.From then on they have fought together on so many occasions, Like the Davy Back fight and whats going on in Enies Lobby right now.
That and their constant bickering among each other.
The only thing is that, Zoro is more of an active player when the Strawhats fight together, while Sanji has always been missing somewhere else, and then comes back later to do something that helps the crew later on.
Happened in Little Garden, Sky Piea, Water 7.

If Sanji ate a Devil Fruit or learned some sort of superpower then he'd be on the same level as Luffy and Zoro.

While i agree he does lack special techniques, his kicks are always more than sufficient a proof of his power.
The Anti-manner kick course KO'ed a crocodile the size of Bunta in one hit
I dont think he needs a DF to get stronger.Whose gonna save Luffy when he falls in then?

Code

10-30-2005, 02:23 PM

That would hardly be considered a fight.I could tell Zoro wasnt serious even before the fight started or wed see Luffy cut up in more than one place.Besides if Oda actually considered it serious, he wouldnt have shown it in a couple of frames, rather he would have shown both of them going all out using their techniques on each other.
That and Nami came in and clobbered them both in seconds.That doesnt mean Nami is the physical equivalent of Zoro and Luffy now does it.

Then I believe one of the One Piece books as stated before, listed Zoro and Luffy both the same is strength.

They weren't series? Luffy practically sending he'd send Zoro to hell because of what he did and Zoro finally being fed up with it and knwoing Luffy wouldn't calm down no matter what seemed quite series also.

Also theyd id use special techniques... Zoro used Onigiri and Luffy used Gomu Gomu no Bazooka and both were even in that trade off.
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1729/onepiece112136qt.jpg
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8194/onepiece112148cx.jpg

Zoro wasnt injured before fighting Daz Boris, nor was he injured before he fought the Priest with the Dog.
The only time I remember him being injured was when he fought Hachi after being cut up by Mihawk.
But then again, the mermen henchmen wernt really a match for the strawhats really.Zoro would have finished the fight in seconds had he not been injured, like what Sanji did.

Well Zoro was injured when he faced Cabaji. But against Daz Boris, would Luffy have had an easier time? Also against one of Eneru's priest. I do recall Satori giving him trouble. Eneru was a good match up against him.

Oda writes the manga in such a way were you believe that Sanji and Zoro are equal, while Luffy is ahead of them.
This started way back in Little Garden ever since they had the hunting competition.From then on they have fought together on so many occasions, Like the Davy Back fight and whats going on in Enies Lobby right now.
That and their constant bickering among each other.
The only thing is that, Zoro is more of an active player when the Strawhats fight together, while Sanji has always been missing somewhere else, and then comes back later to do something that helps the crew later on.
Happened in Little Garden, Sky Piea, Water 7.

There rivarly doesn't seem to be 'strength'-based rivalry. At least to me. Also compare Zoro's opponnents to Sanji's.

Gyroscope

10-30-2005, 03:34 PM

They weren't series? Luffy practically sending he'd send Zoro to hell because of what he did and Zoro finally being fed up with it and knwoing Luffy wouldn't calm down no matter what seemed quite series also.
It really didnt seem serious to me.Luffy always says a lot, but the fight took a backseat to BW chasing Vivi on her duck.
Also Nami clobbering them really didnt help.
If they were fighting seriously, Nami wouldnt have dreamt of coming in between.
Thats how i interpret it anyway.

Well Zoro was injured when he faced Cabaji. But against Daz Boris, would Luffy have had an easier time? Also against one of Eneru's priest. I do recall Satori giving him trouble. Eneru was a good match up against him.

Cabaji doesnt even count when compared to his other opponents.
But anyway , you said Luffy was always fresh when fighting his opponents, while Zoro was always injured.
I countered that by saying Daz Boris and Eneru's priest.
As a matter of fact, Luffy was the one that had a hole in his stomach and had severe blood loss before his 2nd fight against Crocodile.
And i do believe Luffy would have beaten Daz Boris anyway albeit with a few injuries.

There rivarly doesn't seem to be 'strength'-based rivalry. At least to me. Also compare Zoro's opponnents to Sanji's.
It started off as a strength based rivalry (Little Garden) and thats when their rivalry started anyway.
Comparing their rivals isnt really helpful (no point really), cos Zoro was always critically injured after his fights, while Sanji wasnt as beat up as Zoro was.He was too strong for his opponents in the end.Look at his fight against Kurobi, Bon Clay and Wanze.
His opponent rarely hurt him when they fought head to head.
Kurobi hurt him underwater when he was trying to save Luffy, Bon Clay hurt him while morphing into Nami, Wanze hurt him when Sanji's arm and leg were cought in the Ramen Dough.
Zoro went all out against almost evenly matched opponents (Boris and the Priest)

Code

10-30-2005, 06:52 PM

It really didnt seem serious to me.Luffy always says a lot, but the fight took a backseat to BW chasing Vivi on her duck.
Also Nami clobbering them really didnt help.
If they were fighting seriously, Nami wouldnt have dreamt of coming in between.
Thats how i interpret it anyway.

Well it is quite serious to me from what I gathered from the conversation and from their actions. They were serious, that doesn't mean they can't be stopped. Nami was obviously there to break the tension.

Cabaji doesnt even count when compared to his other opponents.
But anyway , you said Luffy was always fresh when fighting his opponents, while Zoro was always injured.

Cabaji doesn't even coutn compared to his other opponnents? Why? He was Buggy's henchmen, and Luffy faced Buggy (though didn't beat him alone.)

I countered that by saying Daz Boris and Eneru's priest.
As a matter of fact, Luffy was the one that had a hole in his stomach and had severe blood loss before his 2nd fight against Crocodile.
And i do believe Luffy would have beaten Daz Boris anyway albeit with a few injuries.

Hmm... Luffy was only able to beat Crocodile because of that blood... If he had been perfectly fine, he'd just get beat again... and again and again... The blood that caught Corodile off gaurd was what allowed Luffy to actually do some damage to him.

Luffy would beat Mr. 1 how? Well he may be able to break steel now possibly, but I don't think he could've back then. Daz Bones way of fighting also would kind of make his rubber ineffective and he would simply cut him up. He also has no swords to block his attacks with, so it'd be a matter of dodging all the time.

It started off as a strength based rivalry (Little Garden) and thats when their rivalry started anyway.

Well I don't recall it ever being strength based. As well they're different in almost every way so they insult each other.

Comparing their rivals isnt really helpful (no point really), cos Zoro was always critically injured after his fights, while Sanji wasnt as beat up as Zoro was.He was too strong for his opponents in the end.Look at his fight against Kurobi, Bon Clay and Wanze.

Sanji did come out in a better condition though but Bon Clay seemed much weaker than Mr. 1. Smoker and Hina seemed to think Daz Bones was quite a dangerous person when talking about Zoro's bounty. Sanji had a hard time with Wanze(who is merely a cook)... while Zoro destroyed T-Bone (Marine Captain, same rank as Smoker) with one effortless attack...

His opponent rarely hurt him when they fought head to head.
Kurobi hurt him underwater when he was trying to save Luffy, Bon Clay hurt him while morphing into Nami, Wanze hurt him when Sanji's arm and leg were cought in the Ramen Dough.
Zoro went all out against almost evenly matched opponents (Boris and the Priest)
Zoro fought Mr. 1 (who was steel and well Sanji has some trouble trying to kick through Blueno's Tekkai and that was much later and Zoro much stronger... though granted had Sanji been more prepared he may have broken through but still....) and the next day he was up with giant boulders on his outstretched arm traning. Also... the fight against Eneru's Priest wasn't really a one on one figh tas well they were all caged up with a few others and fighting each other. Though it kind of turned into one and Zoro defeated him without much trouble. Then compare that to Sanji's fight (who had the help of Luffy and Usopp) against one of Eneru's priest... Zoro even after that match went on to fight Eneru himself then later on to cut down that giant beanstalk thingy. Though you also have to remember that right before he fought Ohm, he fought Braham who wasn't a weak opponnent at all.

Then you can try to count how many times the Franky Family has questioned why Zoro isn't the Straw Hat Captain...

Wrath

10-30-2005, 07:50 PM

While i agree he does lack special techniques, his kicks are always more than sufficient a proof of his power.
The Anti-manner kick course KO'ed a crocodile the size of Bunta in one hit
I dont think he needs a DF to get stronger.Whose gonna save Luffy when he falls in then?The problem is that his kicks are never going to be as strong or as versatile as Luffy's rubber punches. Zoro doesn't have the sheer force of Luffy but he has his swords and chi attacks.

Gyroscope

10-30-2005, 09:11 PM

Well it is quite serious to me from what I gathered from the conversation and from their actions. They were serious, that doesn't mean they can't be stopped. Nami was obviously there to break the tension.
I see it differently, but whatever I guess.To each his own

Cabaji doesn't even coutn compared to his other opponnents? Why? He was Buggy's henchmen, and Luffy faced Buggy (though didn't beat him alone.)
Cabaji doesnt count when compared to Zoro's other battles (Mr.1, Priest etc..)

Hmm... Luffy was only able to beat Crocodile because of that blood... If he had been perfectly fine, he'd just get beat again... and again and again... The blood that caught Corodile off gaurd was what allowed Luffy to actually do some damage to him.
I know that.You missed my point which was he fought in a horrible condition compared to when Zoro started his fight.

Well I don't recall it ever being strength based. As well they're different in almost every way so they insult each other.
Lets see who catches the bigger monster - pretty much strength based.

Sanji did come out in a better condition though but Bon Clay seemed much weaker than Mr. 1. Smoker and Hina seemed to think Daz Bones was quite a dangerous person when talking about Zoro's bounty. Sanji had a hard time with Wanze(who is merely a cook)... while Zoro destroyed T-Bone (Marine Captain, same rank as Smoker) with one effortless attack...

Again u missed my point.I was saying that there is no point in comparing the guys they have faced.
The difference in skill between Zoro and Mr.1 was a lot less than between Sanji and Bon Clay.
We can compare if the differences are the same.

And how exactly did Sanji have a hard time with Wanze.
His feet got stuck in Wanze's dough and that was the only time he got hit.
Once he got free, he destroyed Wanze so much as to completely change his appearance.
And Wanze was higher ranked than T-Bone :)

Zoro fought Mr. 1 (who was steel and well Sanji has some trouble trying to kick through Blueno's Tekkai and that was much later and Zoro much stronger... though granted had Sanji been more prepared he may have broken through but still....) and the next day he was up with giant boulders on his outstretched arm traning. Also... the fight against Eneru's Priest wasn't really a one on one figh tas well they were all caged up with a few others and fighting each other. Though it kind of turned into one and Zoro defeated him without much trouble. Then compare that to Sanji's fight (who had the help of Luffy and Usopp) against one of Eneru's priest... Zoro even after that match went on to fight Eneru himself then later on to cut down that giant beanstalk thingy. Though you also have to remember that right before he fought Ohm, he fought Braham who wasn't a weak opponnent at all.

Zoro didnt break through Tekkai last i remember.Sanji was the first person to push it to its max - while not knowing anything about their style.
Against Eneru's priest, they barely even knew what mantra was, while in Zoro's fight Ohm forgot about Mantra towards the end.He should have seen that attack come really. And Braham wasnt really a match for Zoro tbh.He was blinding Zoro before attacking.Head to head Zoro was way too strong for him.

Then you can try to count how many times the Franky Family has questioned why Zoro isn't the Straw Hat Captain...
Thats partly because Zoro is not only freakishly strong, but not as stupid as Luffy is.They havnt really seen Sanji in action have they (apart from when they got served by Luffy n co)

But anyway, this seems to be getting more of a matter of choice really :amuse
I really have nothing against Zoro (If i came off like that).My point was that Oda writes OP in such a way so u would think Zoro and Sanji are 2nd to Luffy.

Code

10-30-2005, 10:50 PM

Cabaji doesnt count when compared to Zoro's other battles (Mr.1, Priest etc..)

Well I was using him as an example of when he was already injued when eh frist fought.

I know that.You missed my point which was he fought in a horrible condition compared to when Zoro started his fight.

Which is my point.

Lets see who catches the bigger monster - pretty much strength based.

Well maybe that. (Not at all sure that isn't filler...) But that really isn't the bulk of their rivalry. Merely insults .

Again u missed my point.I was saying that there is no point in comparing the guys they have faced.
The difference in skill between Zoro and Mr.1 was a lot less than between Sanji and Bon Clay.
We can compare if the differences are the same.

Bon Clay's skill involves trickery. So you have to count when he turned into Nami. In which he gained the upper hand on Sanji and nearly beat him to death.

And how exactly did Sanji have a hard time with Wanze.
His feet got stuck in Wanze's dough and that was the only time he got hit.
Once he got free, he destroyed Wanze so much as to completely change his appearance.
And Wanze was higher ranked than T-Bone :)

While Wanze is merely CP7's Expert Cook. Being caught is being caught, the opponnent bested you. After he got hit he was forced to pull out knives and fight with them. Since when is Wanze a higher rank than T-bone? T-Bone was a Marine HQ Captain.

Zoro didnt break through Tekkai last i remember.Sanji was the first person to push it to its max - while not knowing anything about their style.
Against Eneru's priest, they barely even knew what mantra was, while in Zoro's fight Ohm forgot about Mantra towards the end.He should have seen that attack come really. And Braham wasnt really a match for Zoro tbh.He was blinding Zoro before attacking.Head to head Zoro was way too strong for him.

Zoro never faced Tekkai... against Kaku. Zoro and him were trading blows (unlike Sanji who simpy got owned) until he looked away when Robin left if I recall correctly and Kaku caught him with a shigan. The difference in level between Kaku and the others is quite great. Sanji hit it first it didn't do anything but he noticed something so eh tried a strong kick and it only nearly broke through. Didn't fully succeed. Ohm forgot about Mantra? He may have seen the attack but he probably couldn't dodge. That is Braham's way of fighitng, Zoro developed a new technique in that fight, so you can say that wasn't an easy match up. So back to back match ups and still has time to face mroe people.

Thats partly because Zoro is not only freakishly strong, but not as stupid as Luffy is.They havnt really seen Sanji in action have they (apart from when they got served by Luffy n co)

Because Sanji hasn't really fought opponnents as strong as Zoro and Luffy. Though he still has been damaged some.

But anyway, this seems to be getting more of a matter of choice really :amuse
I really have nothing against Zoro (If i came off like that).My point was that Oda writes OP in such a way so u would think Zoro and Sanji are 2nd to Luffy.
Well I disagree and go with the fact that Zoro and Luffy are even. First the Alabasta fight, then the data books listing Zoro and Luffy as even, then the fact that more than once, there have been questions about why Zoro isn't the captain, and then the opponnents they fight and the condition they are in. I think that suggests they are even. As opposed to Zoro and Sanji merely insulting each other.

Gyroscope

10-31-2005, 07:56 AM

I was merely pointing out how i read the manga (my interpretation) and you yours.While your just trying to prove that Sanji is vastly inferior to Luffy and Zoro -_-
I agree with what Wrath said anyway.
And no the "catch a bigger monster" wasnt filler.And that was the start of their rivalry.

Wanze is higher ranked than T-Bone.
I think it was Corgi that said it.That they have Captains from CP5 onwards in the cars and that the cars ranked officers al the way from CP5 to CP9 (where they were sitting).
He also said that their fighting potential increased based on their rank, so yes Wanze was higher ranked than Tbone and was stronger than him (according to Corgi).
Also the only times Sanji was hit by the CP9 was when hew looked away.
The first time Robin clutched Usopp and he was surprised enough to look in the other direction.THats when Kaku nailed him.
Second time was when Blueno surprised him from behind through the ar door.

That isnt exactly "OWNED".
Neither did Zoro exactly trade blows as you put it.
He attacked Kaku broke his chisels, then he too looked away and thats when Kaku Shiganed him.
THey were both attacked when they looked away.