Davy Back I - R1M1 - darkguy9944 vs. Dracule Mihawk

[nick1689]

Davy Back I - R1M1

1. Vote clearly on the victor. You must state a reason why you feel that team would win. Your vote is voided if: You don't have a reason stated, you have less than 100 posts (unless it is decided differently), and if you don't put I vote for: (Participant Name here) at the end of your post.

2. Only 1 vote allowed. If later you are persuaded by someone and choose to vote for the other person, then only that vote will count.

3. No filler abilities, none period.

4. No character hype, yes Kenpachi is fucking awesome, but please try and be serious and just go off their skills

5. Experience of fighting WITH or AGAINST character's are in play. (eg Soi Fon and Yoruichi Shihōin will work well together) EXPERIENCE IS ONLY IN AFFECT FROM CHAPTER 377 AND BEFORE (this will be updated for each tournament hereafter).

6. There is no prep time. But your characters have unlimited time before a match where they can discuss strategy and share knowledge etc. But no actions may be taken before a match.

7. The Incharacter Rule:
Characters will do their best to follow a strategy. They will happily attack the enemy (even Pesche Guatiche and Dondochakka Bilstin will attack Neliel Tu Oderschvank if she is the enemy). Characters have no fear (Marechiyo Ōmaeda will not run away unless directed to). When left with nothing to do and no guidelines, characters will behave incharacter as they would do in the manga.

8. If caught bribing for votes or cheating (making aliases), you will be disqualified from the tournament.

9. A strategy cannot plan for things the characters have no knowledge of. For example, a team cannot plan for Zommari Leroux's Amor if no one on that players team has knowledge of it.

10. If both combatants have equal votes after 72 hours the match will be extended by 24 hours. If the winner of the match has not been determined after the 24 hour extension, the match will go into sudden death, next vote wins. If a single combatant hasn't posted his/her strategy within 48 hours of the match starting, they are disqualified for not supplying a strategy within reasonable a time for the match to be fairely debated. If both combatants haven't posted their strategy within 48 hours of the match starting they are both disqualified.

11. If combatant X has read combatant Y's strategy and posted a direct counter strategy, combatant X is disqualified for poor sportsmanship. Combatants are not allowed to read the others strategy until both strategies have been posted. It is recommended that the first strategy to be posted is in spoiler tags to avoid any accidental reading.

Location: Woods of Soul Society - Short

Refer to the Bleach Tournament Battledome Information Thread (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=520373) for details regarding rules and restrictions, character abilities, locations and starting distances


darkguy9944
bomb shelter

Soi Fon - 42
D.A.D.S - 16
Renji Abarai - 12
Loli - 4

vs

Dracule Mihawk
Silent Assassins

Soi Fong- 42
Yumichika Ayasegawa- 10
Ichigo Kurosaki (Shikai)- 12
Orihime- 10

[Candy]

dark guy should win

[nick1689]

Not really, it could go any way. Itll come down to strats

[VastoLorDae]

definitely strats, but Dark guy I can see having an advantage.

[squilliam]

yeah, I'd say Orihime is the main catalyst here

[Candy]

Not really, it could go any way. Itll come down to strats

darkguy has better support

[dark0]

dark guy should win

lol you haven't seen my matches have you.

besdes my low arguing self-confdence, my strat should be up later, once have a computer that can use the letter "i".

[migukuni]

this is down to strats, DM can still win this

[Candy]

this is down to strats, DM can still win this

I just mean charcater wise

[migukuni]

dunno
Soi Fon vs Soi Fong

the one with the g would win lolz

[Kobe]

DM will pwn IMO.

[Uzumaki Lee]

close match, but i see DM taking this

[Dracule Mihawk]

Knowledge- Not too important. None on Yumichika though.

Strategy-



Opening Moves

Neither team really has a tracker. The closest to a tracker is definitely Orihime. Therefore, while suppressing our reaitsu we will move away from the other team until we are quite far away. Then at a reasonable distance Ichigo will flare up his reaitsu. The place will be situated so that there is a specific corridor to attack. Yumichika will steal some of his reaitsu using shikai but will release his shikai quickly. Now we have spare reaitsu from Ichigo.

Phase II

Once they come into attack Soi Fong will release bankai and use her stinger missile thing. She will have flanked around the other team and should be able to attack all of them at once. Yumichika meanwhile will be throwing around the flowers with reaitsu to confuse the opponents. Orihime will have made Ichigo better by now with her time manip hopefully. Ichigo will unleash a GT is possible and then get the fuck out of the way of the stinger.

Then IC cleanup

[migukuni]

i think knowledge is

darkguy9944
bomb shelter

Soi Fon - 42 -FULL
D.A.D.S - 16 - NONE
Renji Abarai - 12 -FULL
Loli - 4 - FULL

Dracule Mihawk
Silent Assassins

Soi Fong- 42 - FULL
Yumichika Ayasegawa- 10 - NONE
Ichigo Kurosaki (Shikai)- 12 -FULL
Orihime- 10 -FULL

[Sajin]

Darkguy should win, Yumichika is fodder and Orihime at short is nearly useless.

[Cthulhu-versailles]

Soi Fon - 42
D.A.D.S - 16
Renji Abarai - 12
Loli - 4

vs

Dracule Mihawk
Silent Assassins

Soi Fong- 42
Yumichika Ayasegawa- 10
Ichigo Kurosaki (Shikai)- 12
Orihime- 10[/CENTER]

Soi= Soi
Yumi with Orihime helping by spaming her shields could potentially get ahold of DADS
Renji using Bankai would tie with Shikai Ichigo basiicaly
Loli dies in the background or something.

Pretty even fight.
Strategies determine the winner. I don't see either having a big advantage because at anypoint they could have SOI break out the her bankai at close range and cause a DKO of SOI + others:zaru

[Darth]

I think Dracule's sick of getting knocked out first round.

He won't lose methinks.

[Cycloid]

I think Dracule's sick of getting knocked out first round.

He won't lose methinks.

Yah, V. Ichigo Killed all 5 of his characters (That kinda sucked) We'll see if he gets farther this time

[dark0]

I think Dracule's sick of getting knocked out first round.

He won't lose methinks.

rofl I feel the same way. I'm writing my strat as i speak don't dq me

[Vash TS]

Hmm a Soi Fon mirror GOOO DMMMM

[Darth]

rofl I feel the same way. I'm writing my strat as i speak don't dq me

You still have about 14 hours left to write your strat.

As long as it gets done..

[dark0]

darkguy9944
bomb shelter

Soi Fon - 42 -FULL
D.A.D.S - 16 - NONE
Renji Abarai - 12 -FULL
Loli - 4 - FULL

Dracule Mihawk
Silent Assassins

Soi Fong- 42 - FULL
Yumichika Ayasegawa- 10 - NONE
Ichigo Kurosaki (Shikai)- 12 -FULL
Orihime- 10 –FULL

Everyone will release in an open clearing and renji will stay behind loli while everyone is slashing the forest with their long range attacks. Once the enemy shows themselves they will either go in one group, in which we use our long range attacks to kill them, and soi fon will use shunkou for more power.

if they are separate; dads will take ichigo and he will win fast because he pawned bankai ichigo. Soi fon will take herself, renj and loli will own orihime and yumi.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/158/17/

[Mizukage Hitsugaya 10]

Davy Back I - R1M1

1. Vote clearly on the victor. You must state a reason why you feel that team would win. Your vote is voided if: You don't have a reason stated, you have less than 100 posts (unless it is decided differently), and if you don't put I vote for: (Participant Name here) at the end of your post.

2. Only 1 vote allowed. If later you are persuaded by someone and choose to vote for the other person, then only that vote will count.

3. No filler abilities, none period.

4. No character hype, yes Kenpachi is fucking awesome, but please try and be serious and just go off their skills

5. Experience of fighting WITH or AGAINST character's are in play. (eg Soi Fon and Yoruichi Shihōin will work well together) EXPERIENCE IS ONLY IN AFFECT FROM CHAPTER 377 AND BEFORE (this will be updated for each tournament hereafter).

6. There is no prep time. But your characters have unlimited time before a match where they can discuss strategy and share knowledge etc. But no actions may be taken before a match.

7. The Incharacter Rule:
Characters will do their best to follow a strategy. They will happily attack the enemy (even Pesche Guatiche and Dondochakka Bilstin will attack Neliel Tu Oderschvank if she is the enemy). Characters have no fear (Marechiyo Ōmaeda will not run away unless directed to). When left with nothing to do and no guidelines, characters will behave incharacter as they would do in the manga.

8. If caught bribing for votes or cheating (making aliases), you will be disqualified from the tournament.

9. A strategy cannot plan for things the characters have no knowledge of. For example, a team cannot plan for Zommari Leroux's Amor if no one on that players team has knowledge of it.

10. If both combatants have equal votes after 72 hours the match will be extended by 24 hours. If the winner of the match has not been determined after the 24 hour extension, the match will go into sudden death, next vote wins. If a single combatant hasn't posted his/her strategy within 48 hours of the match starting, they are disqualified for not supplying a strategy within reasonable a time for the match to be fairely debated. If both combatants haven't posted their strategy within 48 hours of the match starting they are both disqualified.

11. If combatant X has read combatant Y's strategy and posted a direct counter strategy, combatant X is disqualified for poor sportsmanship. Combatants are not allowed to read the others strategy until both strategies have been posted. It is recommended that the first strategy to be posted is in spoiler tags to avoid any accidental reading.

Location: Woods of Soul Society - Short

Refer to the Bleach Tournament Battledome Information Thread (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=520373) for details regarding rules and restrictions, character abilities, locations and starting distances


darkguy9944
bomb shelter

Soi Fon - 42
D.A.D.S - 16
Renji Abarai - 12
Loli - 4

vs

Dracule Mihawk
Silent Assassins

Soi Fong- 42
Yumichika Ayasegawa- 10
Ichigo Kurosaki (Shikai)- 12
Orihime- 10

I see Mihawk's team taking this, rather handily. Yumichika will utterly stomp the Renji with his Shikai, Shikai Ichigo will end Loli with a single Getsuga Tensho and move on to fight DADS
Shikai Ichigo vs. DADS will end with a dead Ichigo, BUT Yumichika will have Renji's reiatsu to continue fighting, and his Shikai will also kill DADS.
Moving on to Soifon vs. Soifon
They kill each other :zaru

[Sajin]

Yumichika will utterly stomp the Renji with his Shikai,

You can't possibly be serious :oh

Besides, you should cast an official vote since you care enough to post.

[dark0]

I see Mihawk's team taking this, rather handily. Yumichika will utterly stomp the Renji with his Shikai, Shikai Ichigo will end Loli with a single Getsuga Tensho and move on to fight DADS
Shikai Ichigo vs. DADS will end with a dead Ichigo, BUT Yumichika will have Renji's reiatsu to continue fighting, and his Shikai will also kill DADS.
Moving on to Soifon vs. Soifon
They kill each other :zaru

loli won't fight ichigo, dads can own him in a second (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/252/15/) and you are majorly overestimating yumi's shikai, it doesn't even have good psychical strength.

[Uzumaki Lee]

-24 Hour Warning-

[Mizukage Hitsugaya 10]

You can't possibly be serious :oh
No I just like arguing for the underdog
:whitebeard


Besides, you should cast an official vote since you care enough to post.
Meh, for now I'm just offering my input...

[Sajin]

Vote darkguy

Darkguy has fodder advantage from the start (DADS and Renji are both around shikai captain level, just like shikai Ichigo, while Loli and Yumichika are not). Orihime is deadweight (I have no clue why DM decided to leave her with Ichigo). Dracule's Soi Fon will be unable to outmaneuver darkguy's team because the reiatsu surge from her bankai will be easily noticed by darkguy's Soi Fon who has full knowledge of it, not to mention that bankai SF is pretty immobile. Therefore, Soi Fons should cancel each other out, DADS solos DM's fodder while Renji and Loli drink tea.

[Omaeda Takes It Alone]

DM's team retreats while dg's team clears the forests with Shunko, Dordonii's hurricanes, and Renji's Bankai. They have no trouble finding the other team because Ichigo can't suppress his reiatsu and blasts it, and Soi Fon releases Bankai.

DM's Soi Fon fires her Bankai when the other team gets within range. Renji's Bankai, Soi Fon's knowledge, and her Shunkou which protects against Kido should be enough to protect her from the opposing Soi Fon's Bankai. dg's Soi Fon can easily snipe the other team without much effort because she has superior speed to the fodder and the other Soi Fon is wore out from firing Bankai. Orihime doesn't contribute much as per DM's strategy for some reason.

Vote darkguy9944

[Candy]

I want to hear DMs rebutal before I vote

[dark0]

I'm so overjoyed i've never won a real tourney match (except that one give up in the konoha battledome.)

[BlackSmoke]

She will have flanked around the other team and should be able to attack all of them at once.


It's unwieldy, flanking with that stinger missile. A shunko Soi fon from darkguy will take your bankai Soifon out so easily. Seriously even without the support shunko soifon just juggernauts DM's team because of speed killing priority. The fact Dark uses support is advantage to him.

convince me the bankai missile isn't cumbersome and unwieldy and I may change my vote...
Vote darkguy9944

[migukuni]

vote darkguy9944

first fault for DM is that he made ichigo try to hide his reiatsu this will totally not work, soi would be able to find him easily... and from there everything goes down, renji and dads hits in that area and i doubt orihime or yumichika can hold out too long in the defensive line not to mention that soi fon is going bankai at this time, so she might be immobile however if at this time soi is able to fires out her bankai in time (she is probably leaning on a huge tree so she can aim better) this would destroy renji dads and loli however yumi, orihime and ichigo would also be dead. then a full healed soi vs 2/3 reiatsu soi would insue... giving the win to the full healed soi

im waiting for DM's rebuttal too

[Dracule Mihawk]

The whole point is Soi Fong finding Ichigo and attacking him. :facepalm

My Soi Fong can then easily go bankai and stinger missile the opponent.

You flank without releasing. Then you use bankai and shoot.... where am I exposing Soi Fong's reaitsu before the attack is releaseD?

[Dracule Mihawk]

darkguy9944
bomb shelter

Soi Fon - 42 -FULL
D.A.D.S - 16 - NONE
Renji Abarai - 12 -FULL
Loli - 4 - FULL

Dracule Mihawk
Silent Assassins

Soi Fong- 42 - FULL
Yumichika Ayasegawa- 10 - NONE
Ichigo Kurosaki (Shikai)- 12 -FULL
Orihime- 10 –FULL

Everyone will release in an open clearing and renji will stay behind loli while everyone is slashing the forest with their long range attacks. Once the enemy shows themselves they will either go in one group, in which we use our long range attacks to kill them, and soi fon will use shunkou for more power.

if they are separate; dads will take ichigo and he will win fast because he pawned bankai ichigo. Soi fon will take herself, renj and loli will own orihime and yumi.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/158/17/

It's perfect. Your whole team goes and attacks Ichigo. From behind Soi Fong fires her bankai and kills your entire team. I don't see anything your team can do.

Ichigo has massive reaitsu and with Yumichika throwing around reaitsu, it's gonna be hard to suddenly notice the reaitsu, realize what it is and then react and dodge while you're busy attacking someone.

[BlackSmoke]

Opening Moves

Neither team really has a tracker. The closest to a tracker is definitely Orihime. Therefore, while suppressing our reaitsu we will move away from the other team until we are quite far away. Then at a reasonable distance Ichigo will flare up his reaitsu. The place will be situated so that there is a specific corridor to attack. Yumichika will steal some of his reaitsu using shikai but will release his shikai quickly. Now we have spare reaitsu from Ichigo.

Phase II

Once they come into attack Soi Fong will release bankai and use her stinger missile thing. She will have flanked around the other team and should be able to attack all of them at once. Yumichika meanwhile will be throwing around the flowers with reaitsu to confuse the opponents. Orihime will have made Ichigo better by now with her time manip hopefully. Ichigo will unleash a GT is possible and then get the fuck out of the way of the stinger.

Then IC cleanup


Enemy Soifon will detect the reistu spike coming from Bankai Soi...on hind sight I like your strat just rebut my up top post.

[migukuni]

wait, so DM your saying that soi fon is not together with ichigo and others? how far are they from each other? i was a bit confused with your flanking strat, coz obviously soi cannot move fast in her bankai, so meaning she flanks then use bankai, but how far did she flank?

[BlackSmoke]

He didn't mention his Soi seperating from the main group in phase 1. Fatal Error :/ plan would have worked otherwise because she is like black ops and sneaky like that.

[Dracule Mihawk]

Once they come into attack Soi Fong will release bankai and use her stinger missile thing. She will have flanked around the other team and should be able to attack all of them at once.

My whole strat hinges on Soi Fong already being in position and separated from the rest of my team.

Enemy Soifon will detect the reistu spike coming from Bankai Soi...on hind sight I like your strat just rebut my up top post.

That's why I have Yumichika throwing around the random Flower reaitsu things. They might not make large spikes but they make small spikes to distract opposing Soi.

[Dracule Mihawk]

And everyone disappears. :(

Oh well, I'm destined to fail.

[migukuni]

i was still thinking ok, so here, since you kindly clarified it

while renji and dads are firing off their attacks in the forest, which is probably in the side of ichigo, yumi and orihime; orihime and ichigo are probably deflecting this attacks. while they are doing this soi fon is already at their back hiding her presence, then when yumi releases her flowers so that the flowers will disturb the reiatsu perception of the enemy soi... now, question who will he attack with his flowers? and how will he eat ichigo's reiatsu at the start when renji and dads are attacking them, not having enough time for your prep

[Dracule Mihawk]

I think Yumichika can release his shikai before they travel 150 meters as a group. It shouldn't be too hard.

Sorry, it's just that I feel like I'm running outta time.

[migukuni]

oh... mahhh, the distance is short, meaning that by the time dads and renji are released yumichika is syphoning ichigo's reiastu. when dads and renji fires off in your area, orihime would be preoccupied with healing ichigo so she cant defend, so they will be damaged greatly by dads and renji's attacks, so your only last char left would be soi fon, which would unfortunately be found by the other soi fon since there are no reiatsu spikes around... your strat would have worked in mid range probably

[Dracule Mihawk]

Why wouldn't Soi Fong just attack the other team when they attack Ichigo? Oh well.

[migukuni]

she would be attacked by the other soi fon by the time she is ready to release her mini nuke

[Dracule Mihawk]

But she can take out the fodder almost immediately leaving my whole team against his Soi Fong. I have Orihime to heal Soi Fong or Yumichika to use the reaitsu bombs to heal Soi Fong.

[Sajin]

Sorry Dracule, but I cannot change my vote. In Bleach, you can't go bankai in a silent manner, it's always associated with flashy explosions and the like. Besides, Ichigo and Co won't last more than like 5 seconds against three captain level opponents all at once, your Orihime does nothing, Yumichika has great shikai but is slow (relatively, of course), Ichigo is powerful enough to defensively fight even shunko shikai Soi but he has DADS and Renji after him also, he's doomed. So that leaves seconds for your Soi to go bankai and attack.

[Sajin]

darkguy9944 defeats Dracule Mihawk (4-0).

darkguy9944 advances to the next round.

[dark0]

darkguy9944 defeats Dracule Mihawk (4-0).

darkguy9944 advances to the next round.

holy shit i won a real tourney!

[nick1689]

Nice darkguy, congrats on your first win

[Dracule Mihawk]

Sorry Dracule, but I cannot change my vote. In Bleach, you can't go bankai in a silent manner, it's always associated with flashy explosions and the like. Besides, Ichigo and Co won't last more than like 5 seconds against three captain level opponents all at once, your Orihime does nothing, Yumichika has great shikai but is slow (relatively, of course), Ichigo is powerful enough to defensively fight even shunko shikai Soi but he has DADS and Renji after him also, he's doomed. So that leaves seconds for your Soi to go bankai and attack.

Wow. I don't think back here if this is what Bleach is

[Kobe]

No, it's not about Bleach.. it's about what people think in this place..

and I found it pathetic.

[Candy]

No, it's not about Bleach.. it's about what people think in this place..

and I found it pathetic.

Naw, everything sajin said in that quote was correct

[BlackSmoke]

No, it's not about Bleach.. it's about what people think in this place..

and I found it pathetic.

I agree 100% with Sajin & Candy. Musashi, please do stop being a drama queen. Duh, what people think and how they interpet stuff affects their vote...how is that pathetic? :facepalm

[Kobe]

you agree with him because you have same logic :amuse

[Sajin]

Then give us your logic and debate it, Musashi. Don't just walk in and say our reasoning sucks without contributing to the match in any way.

Anyway, this match is over. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so in the discussion threads.

[BlackSmoke]

Not exactly...his sees things differently from me, and some of his conclusions and character wanking are lol at times, but yeah thats not my point. I digress...please do continue to throw around insults in the discussion thread.

[Kobe]

Do I have to write it again and again? :zaru

Wank.Wank.Wank.

This place is all about that.

Anyway, I don't intend to continue this debate with you guys.

[Cthulhu-versailles]

Vote Dracula

Dracula's plan utilizes the area for cover, the limited reiatsu sensing he has, and the essence of assasination. While Darkguy's team is busying smashing up the forest and making their location known, DM Soi will be able to flank around the enemy. In the end, Ichigo, Yumi, and Orihime get engaged by the enemy and presumably oneshoted should any real battle occured. That said, soi will have sucessfully flanked around to the fore , and the surprise fire of her Bankai willl kill everyone on the other team and her own teamates.

[Sajin]

I... I really don't know how to get through to you Musashi.

We are not making you visit this section. If you don't like our way of thinking, we won't force you to come here or spam your inbox with invitation messages. If you want to compete here, however, you should not randomly insult this place in its own section without giving any reasonable feedback whatsoever.

@Cthulhu This match is already over.

[Cthulhu-versailles]

...
Oh. Well, I hadn'tt been following the matches lately, but today have a nice gap and so was just going in each to give a vote.

[dark0]

why do we have a page of discussion after the match is over, that's kinda weird. especially for a first round match

[nick1689]

Just a bit of post-match angst

I get some mods later to lock all the closed matches

[Kobe]

I... I really don't know how to get through to you Musashi.

We are not making you visit this section. If you don't like our way of thinking, we won't force you to come here or spam your inbox with invitation messages. If you want to compete here, however, you should not randomly insult this place in its own section without giving any reasonable feedback whatsoever.

@Cthulhu This match is already over.

well, first of all this is not YOUR place :huh second, why don't you ask the question yourself before questioning me? Not just me, a lot of people mentioned same thing.. seriously if you don't see wanking as a problem I don't know what to say.. this tournament has no purpose then.

[Sajin]

well, first of all this is not YOUR place :huh second, why don't you ask the question yourself before questioning me? Not just me, a lot of people mentioned same thing.. seriously if you don't see wanking as a problem I don't know what to say.. this tournament has no purpose then.

I never said it was MY place :huh You did not only flame me.

Secondly, what does wanking have to do with anything in this match in general and with Soi Fon's bankai reiatsu surge in particular? I really want to know.

[Kobe]

Who did mention about Soi Fon's bankai? I was talking general.. and you jumped and replied to me.

It's really wrong to talk with you this subject because from what I've seen you're the center of this wanking thing in here.. you people are in denial so there's not much to talk..

I've right to participate as much as you do and when I see something wrong going on, of course I'm gonna point that out.. but of courseee.. you're gonna oppose me because it's not advantadgeous for you.

[Sajin]

Who did mention about Soi Fon's bankai? I was talking general.. and you jumped and replied to me.

It's really wrong to talk with you this subject because from what I've seen you're the center of this wanking thing in here.. you people are in denial so there's not much to talk..

I've right to participate as much as you do and when I see something wrong going on, of course I'm gonna point that out.. but of courseee.. you're gonna oppose me because it's not advantadgeous for you.

If you weren't talking about anything match related, then you were spamming.

If you really are concerned about the "wanking thing here" as you say, then make a post about it with thorough reasoning in the discussion thread now.

[nick1689]

Save it for your next match guys, which will inevitably get to 30+ pages it seems :argh

[BlackSmoke]

Sadly I have to face him :facepalm

[Candy]

Who did mention about Soi Fon's bankai? I was talking general.. and you jumped and replied to me.

It's really wrong to talk with you this subject because from what I've seen you're the center of this wanking thing in here.. you people are in denial so there's not much to talk..

I've right to participate as much as you do and when I see something wrong going on, of course I'm gonna point that out.. but of courseee.. you're gonna oppose me because it's not advantadgeous for you.

Jan-man is very correct about the bolded. Its funny becuase me and sajin are faeing each other and we have almost completely differnt styles of rebuting and such

[BlackSmoke]

Can we drop the "wanking" insult. No one is wanking anything. Really stupid, please just use the word hype...Seriously for someone against wanking you two sure mention it all the time :pek.