Iran tested advanced nuclear warhead design – secret report

[Simulacrum]

The UN's nuclear watchdog has asked Iran to explain evidence suggesting that Iranian scientists have experimented with an advanced nuclear warhead design, the Guardian has learned.

The very existence of the technology, known as a "two-point implosion" device, is officially secret in both the US and Britain, but according to previously unpublished documentation in a dossier compiled by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Iranian scientists may have tested high-explosive components of the design. The development was today described by nuclear experts as "breathtaking" and has added urgency to the effort to find a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear crisis.

The sophisticated technology, once mastered, allows for the production of smaller and simpler warheads than older models. It reduces the diameter of a warhead and makes it easier to put a nuclear warhead on a missile.

Documentation referring to experiments testing a two-point detonation design are part of the evidence of nuclear weaponisation gathered by the IAEA and presented to Iran for its response.

The dossier, titled "Possible Military Dimensions of Iran's Nuclear Program", is drawn in part from reports submitted to it by western intelligence agencies.

The agency has in the past treated such reports with scepticism, particularly after the Iraq war. But its director general, Mohamed ElBaradei, has said the evidence of Iranian weaponisation "appears to have been derived from multiple sources over different periods of time, appears to be generally consistent, and is sufficiently comprehensive and detailed that it needs to be addressed by Iran".

Extracts from the dossier have been published previously, but it was not previously known that it included documentation on such an advanced warhead. "It is breathtaking that Iran could be working on this sort of material," said a European government adviser on nuclear issues.

James Acton, a British nuclear weapons expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said: "It's remarkable that, before perfecting step one, they are going straight to step four or five ... To start with more sophisticated designs speaks of level of technical ambition that is surprising."

Another western specialist with extensive knowledge of the Iranian programme said: "It raises the question of who supplied this to them. Did AQ Khan [a Pakistani scientist who confessed in 2004 to running a nuclear smuggling ring] have access to this, or is it another player?"

The revelation of the documents comes at a time of growing tension. Tehran has so far rejected a deal that would remove most of its enriched uranium stockpile for a year and replace it with nuclear fuel rods which would be much harder to turn into weapons. The Iranian government has also balked at negotiations, which were due to begin last week, over its continued enrichment of uranium, in defiance of UN security council resolutions.

There are fears in Washington and London that if no deal is reached to at least temporarily defuse tensions by the end of December, Israel could set in motion plans to take military action aimed at setting back the Iranian programme by force, with incalculable consequences for the Middle East.

Iran has rejected most of the IAEA material on weaponisation as forgeries, but has admitted carrying out tests on multiple high-explosive detonations synchronised to within a microsecond. Tehran has told the agency that there is a civilian application for such tests, but has so far not provided any evidence for them.

Western weapons experts say there are no such civilian applications, but the use of co-ordinated detonations in nuclear warheads is well known. They compress the fissile core, or pit, of the warhead until it reaches critical mass.

A US national intelligence estimate two years ago said that Iran had explored nuclear warhead design for several years but had probably stopped in 2003. British, French and German officials have said they believe weaponisation continued after that date and may still be continuing.

In September, a German court found a German-Iranian businessman, Mohsen Vanaki, guilty of brokering the sale of dual-use equipment with possible applications in developing nuclear weapons. The equipment included specialised high-speed cameras, of the sort used to develop implosion devices, as well as radiation detectors. According to a report by the Institute for Science and International Security, the German foreign intelligence service, the Bundesnachrichtendienst, testified at the trial that there was evidence that Iran's weapons development was continuing.

The IAEA is seeking to find out what the scientists and the institutions involved in the experiments are doing now, but has so far not been given a response. The agency's repeated requests to interview Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, whose name features heavily in the IAEA's documentation and who is widely seen as the father of the Iranian nuclear programme, have been turned down.

The agency has also asked Iran to explain evidence that a Russian weapons expert helped Iranian technicians to master synchronised high-explosive detonations.

The first implosion devices, like the "Fat Man" bomb dropped on Nagasaki on 9 August 1945, used 32 high-explosive hexagons and pentagons arrayed around a plutonium core like the panels of a football. The IAEA has a five-page document describing experimentation on such a hemispherical array of explosives.

According to a diplomat familiar with the IAEA documentation, the evidence also points to experiments with a two-point detonation system that represents "a more elegant solution" to the challenges of making a nuclear warhead, but it is much harder to achieve. It is used in conjunction with a non-spherical pit, in the shape of a rugby ball, or explosives in that shape wrapped around a spherical pit, and it works by compressing the pit from both ends.The IAEA has expressed "serious concern" about Iran's failure to give an account of the research its scientists have carried out.

Descriptions of "two-point implosion" warheads designs have occasionally appeared in the public domain (there are extensive descriptions on Wikipedia) and they were first developed by US scientists in the 1950s, but it remains an offence for American officials or even non-governmental nuclear experts with security clearance to discuss them. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/05/iran-tested-nuclear-warhead-design

[Degelle]

Nice, you go Iran, googogogoog.

[Zaru]

In before pre-emptive strike

[Tokyo Jihen]

In b4 mega :megaharrison

[Watchman]

Well, Iran's going to sign its death warrant if it continues with this.

[Zaru]

Does it make me a bad person that the only thing bothering me about a possible large scale war killing millions down there is that it'd fuck the stock market yet again?

[MunchKing]

If Iran doesn't want to get smacked on the nose with a newspaper, it would be wise to cease whatever it is doing with those plans.

Does it make me a bad person that the only thing bothering me about a possible large scale war killing millions down there is that it'd fuck the stock market yet again?

Of course not. The only thing I'm worried about is how we are going to get it on screen.

And how much popcorn I have to make.

Such high numbers don't mean anything to the mind because we can not properly comprehend the true scale of such a slaughter.

[iFructis]

http://mob263.photobucket.com/albums/ii146/amberbaker1993/Vintage/stop.gif?t=1242059173

[1mmortal 1tachi]

Considering the numerous times "top secret" US energy installations have been raped and pillaged and how much "top secret" US R & D information has been hijacked and stolen by electronic & other means(how many kids living in their parents basement have broken into NASA, the pentagon and other "top secret" installations, heh)... It really shouldn't be a surprise when that information makes its way into the hands of other countries, like Iran.

Yet, somehow, it is. Why? Because we are teh dum.

:zaru

[RAGING BONER]

i think its time to drop the Hebrew hammer of righteous justice +5 on the unprotected head of our Iranian foes.

[Mael]

In this thread: Degelle humping the Ayatollah.

[Rikudou]

It`s time to bomb Iran. If any government deserves it, it`s them...

[Zaru]

It`s time to bomb Iran. If any government deserves it, it`s them...
And the people do, too?

It'd be fine and well if they just bombed the nuclear facilities and research plants, but anything more than that would involve tons of innocent civilians. Shitsux.

[Rikudou]

And the people do, too?

It'd be fine and well if they just bombed the nuclear facilities and research plants, but anything more than that would involve tons of innocent civilians. Shitsux.

I knew this would be the common interpretation, but I meant to imply that only the government needs to be removed from this Earth.

I rarely use the word, but these guys are absolutely EVIL.

[1mmortal 1tachi]

It`s time to bomb Iran. If any government deserves it, it`s them...

I can appreciate the sentiment.

But, considering all Iran has done thus far is talk -- as opposed to hostile or violent action, its possible a concept of justice would demand non violent action as a response.

Besides, I'm sure the United States has all the oil it needs -- considering it now practically owns Iraq. Little or no motivation for them to take over Iran's oil supply, too, am I right?

edit Nevermind...

[Megaharrison]

Pretty hilarious that Degelle loves a regime which persecutes its own people and persecutes viciously groups such as homosexuals (even hanging teenagers because they're gay) because of some ridiculous religious dogma. I wonder what ever made her hate the Iranians and gays so much. Childhood trauma perhaps?

Anyway, I'm still skeptical of this report. I know Mossad keeps most stuff from us but news this big would have made it to the Knesset eventually. Moreover Iran has never displayed any sort of modern technological ability, its own missile program is still in the 1960's. This does essentially guarantee a pre-emptive strike if true in any regard. This kind of test doesn't indicate they have a delieverable nuclear warhead. It's likely this one report is being used as a tool to put pressure on the West to in turn pressure Iran further.

[Mael]

Pretty hilarious that Degelle loves a regime which persecutes its own people and persecutes viciously groups such as homosexuals (even hanging teenagers because they're gay) because of some ridiculous religious dogma. I wonder what ever made her hate the IraniansIsraelis and gays so much. Childhood trauma perhaps?

There I fixed it. Methinks it's this hoopla that Scandinavia has against Israel, like it's what all the cool kids do.

[gonen]

In before Degelle.

EDIT : Damn , too late.

[Surreal]

There I fixed it. Methinks it's this hoopla that Scandinavia has against Israel, like it's what all the cool kids do.Maybe you shouldn't generalize Scandinavia because of this girl?

Just saying~

[The Pink Ninja]

Maybe you shouldn't generalize Scandinavia because of this girl?

Just saying~

We're not, but a very anti-Israel, pro-Palestine seems to be the majority case amongst The Northmen :edu

Or at least the ones I see on teh interwebs.

[Degelle]

Pretty hilarious that Degelle loves a regime which persecutes its own people and persecutes viciously groups such as homosexuals (even hanging teenagers because they're gay) because of some ridiculous religious dogma. I wonder what ever made her hate the Iranians and gays so much. Childhood trauma perhaps?

Says the one that claims that an execution is not fitting for someone that rapes and murders toddlers. :zaru

Perhaps it was because they were arab children? We already know what the jews think of arabs.

We're not, but a very anti-Israel, pro-Palestine seems to be the majority case amongst The Northmen :edu

Or at least the ones I see on teh interwebs.
I remember hearing that generalization from none other than Lieberman, saying Sweden is anti-semitic, ant-Israeli, becuase of an article.

How can anyone take them seriously, really? They're a laughingstock, only USA seems to be able not to throw a belly giggle at them.

Sweden certainly isnt anti-Israel, we just think killing women and children aint that great. :zaru

[Mael]

Maybe you shouldn't generalize Scandinavia because of this girl?

Just saying~

We're not, but a very anti-Israel, pro-Palestine seems to be the majority case amongst The Northmen :edu

Or at least the ones I see on teh interwebs.

TPN answered it for me. :zaru

[Megaharrison]

Says the one that claims that an execution is not fitting for someone that rapes and murders toddlers. :zaru

Perhaps was it simply because they were arab children?

Your defense of why you support Iran's oppressive regime is me not supporting the death penalty for exclusive sex crimes? (not to mention I supported the death penalty option after learning he had killed someone). I don't support killing exclusive rapists while you support a regime that hangs gay teenagers. Thus I would abandon this little contest of yours if I were you.

And your idea that it's because they were Arab is silly. Here was an Arab man committing the crime. Thus if I hated Arabs like you claim I would have no problem seeing him die. You're still wrong even on your own logical fallacy. That's quite a level of fail right there.

[Surreal]

TPN answered it for me. :zaru

We're not, but a very anti-Israel, pro-Palestine seems to be the majority case amongst The Northmen :edu

Or at least the ones I see on teh interwebs.

Thing is, I never judge a country or a continent based on a handful individuals, especially on the internet. If I went by that the list of obnoxious stereotypes that would come out as a result of reading this forum would pretty much make me hate every American out there.:]

She is what she is, doesn't mean some poor Viking in the middle of the cold North should be lumped in with her as a result.~

[narutosimpson]

the usual suspects bring u red herrings.

[Degelle]

Proper deterrence is in order, espeically when Israel have hundreds of nukes. Iran have the same right as anyone else to have nukes. Iran arnt aggressors, atleast not compared to USA, Israel and their neighbours.

Your defense of why you support Iran's oppressive regime is me not supporting the death penalty for exclusive sex crimes? (not to mention I supported the death penalty option after learning he had killed someone). I don't support killing exclusive rapists while you support a regime that hangs gay teenagers. Thus I would abandon this little contest of yours if I were you.
Lol, you're such a tool. Just because I support their policy against the zionist regime, doesnt mean I support their other policy.

It's not like every american that supports Israel turns their cheek away from the murders of Israel, everthing is not black & white I'm afraid.

Though, I knew you wanted to troll a bit, you seem to be unable to stay on topics.


And your idea that it's because they were Arab is silly. Here was an Arab man committing the crime. Thus if I hated Arabs like you claim I would have no problem seeing him die. You're still wrong even on your own logical fallacy. That's quite a level of fail right there.
Oh my, that was blunt, fail leve? Hitler used jews in his staff and army, yet he hated them. :zaru I don't see why you shouldnt embrace a arab that kills arabs.

[Mael]

Thing is, I never judge a country or a continent based on a handful individuals, especially on the internet. If I went by that the list of obnoxious stereotypes that would come out as a result of reading this forum would pretty much make me hate every American out there.:]

She is what she is, doesn't mean some poor Viking in the middle of the cold North should be lumped in with her as a result.~

But she's not helping and with papers like Aftonbladet...it's not doing Sweden at the least any justice.

[Surreal]

But she's not helping and with papers like Aftonbladet...it's not doing Sweden at the least any justice.Indeed.

Then again, is someone like lava helping you as an American? How about some of the "sources" Sim produces?

Usually I wouldn't respond at all if someone made a generalization like that but I saw you not once on this forum speaking out against such things so it would be sad to see that someone made you sink just as low.

[Mael]

Indeed.

Then again, is someone like lava helping you as an American? How about some of the "sources" Sim produces?

Hey I :facepalm at them too...I know everyone's got their cretins.

[gonen]

Perhaps it was because they were arab children? We already know what the jews think of arabs.



And then you don't understand why you are being called Antisemitism.
Jews!=Israel.

[Degelle]

And then you don't understand why you are being called Antisemitism.
Jews!=Israel.

I can see why you would call me anti-semitic, when Liberman claims that the entire kingdom of Sweden is anti-semitic.

It's about time that you grasped the word anti-semitic, and don't confuse it with anti-zionism.

You can't hide behind that anti-semitic line all your life, as soon as you get criticism. Like Shulamit Aloni said, it's a trap!

[gonen]

It's about time that you grasped the word anti-semitic, and don't confuse it with anti-zionism.



Exactly.
Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism.
But you said that all Jews hate Arab.

That's definitely Antisemitism and not Antizionism, my friend.

[Rikudou]

I can appreciate the sentiment.

But, considering all Iran has done thus far is talk -- as opposed to hostile or violent action, its possible a concept of justice would demand non violent action as a response.



It just proves they are a little smarter than the average shitface fundamentalist.

They don't attack a nation if they aren't ready for it. They are one of the few banana-republics who have mastered a crucial element of military success: "Don't fight battles you can't win".

What do you think happens if they DID develope a bomb and actually WERE a considerable threat to Israel. I really believe they would add bite to their bark and try to whipe Israel off the map just like Ahmediniwhatshisshitface threatened to do.


And I DON'T buy "The innocent Iranian voter" either. I believe the majority of Iranians supports Ahmedinijad. That 'revolution' we saw a couple of months back may have been another face of Iran, the majority are still fundemantalist scum. They ELECTED the guy because of his radical 'idea's'.
It's the same people who banished a modern free-thinking Shah to impose the Islamic Revolution.

And LOL at Iranians preferring to be called Persians because of massive shame. I've had many conversations going like this:

Me: "You're Iranian right?"
Them: "No, I'm Persian"
Me: ":rofl"

[Degelle]

Exactly.
Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism.
But you said that all Jews hate Arab.

That's definitely Antisemitism and not Antizionism, my friend.
Didnt say all jews hate arabs, I said we all know what jews thinks about arabs. Don't sit there and claim anything else, I could go on all day about it, friend. Just because you yourself have arab friends, doesnt change the fact that the majority is rather racist when it comes to it.

Really, you guys tend to make the whole "jew" reference as complex a possible, in order to futher use the anti-semitic bullcrap. I've seen it a thousand times.

Should I have said Israelis instead? :zaru

I really believe they would add bite to their bark and try to whipe Israel off the map just like Ahmediniwhatshisshitface threatened to do.
He never said such a thing.

Don't buy into the propaganda bullshit which is used to futher distance the west from the muslim world.

[gonen]

You couldn't say Israelis either , because there are two million Arabs in Israel, which are definitely considered as Israelis :)
This is also not true that the majority of Jews hates Arab. The Jews are not racist.
This is not fair to take a small group of racist Jews and then claim that the majority of Jews are racist. Using the same logic, I can say that all Muslims are terrorists, which is not true.

[Degelle]

You couldn't say Israelis either , because there are two million Arabs in Israel, which are definitely considered as Israelis :)
This is also not true that the majority of Jews hates Arab. The Jews are not racist.
This is not fair to take a small group of racist Jews and then claim that the majority of Jews are racist. Using the same logic, I can say that all Muslims are terrorists, which is not true.

The group that have racist opinions about arabs and muslims are not a minority. Behave gonen, lol. :hurr

[Saufsoldat]

The group that have racist opinions about arabs and muslims are not a minority. Behave gonen, lol. :hurr

What statistics or representative do you have to support that claim?

[Sama'el]

Skeptical of this claim as well. The type of warhead they're referring to are the modern, conical shaped implosion types, which while having the advantage of saving space and fittign nicely onto the top of a missile, are also many orders of magnitude more difficult to design and build. The calculations involved alone require super computers and some pretty advanced knowledge of physics.

[gonen]

What statistics or representative do you have to support that claim?

Hey , that's what I wanted to say.
If this is a kind of a survey, I wasn't asked about it. Nor someone I know.

[Degelle]

How about you go out on the streets of Jerusalem and ask?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3350467,00.html

^ Justify that, I'd like to hear it. That's inexcusable.

You know, for an example, the U.S. Cngress passed a law that said the U.S is a Christian, Anglo-Saxon nation and that any Christian, AngloSaxon person anywhere in the world is automatically eligible to become a citizen. Do you seriously think the "anti-Dfamation League" would not have a fit and scream racism?

Well, Israel has such a law for Jews. Thus a Russian Jew, for example, can become a citizen, but a Palestinian driven out of his own country in 1948 cannot return. :zaru

Suppose, for another example, a group of wealthy people established the Christian National Fund, in USA. This fund would be used to purchase property... Once purchased, the property could never be sold to, rented to or leased to a non-Christian. Would that not be called discrimination? :notrust Well... there is such a fund called the Jewish National Fund, which has all of those restrictions on the property it owns. It played a great part in establishing Israel.

I could go on all day, my friend. :zaru

[Lezard Valeth]

It`s time to bomb Iran. If any government deserves it, it`s them...Did you learn anything from Iraq?

If Israel attacks, Iran will counter strike, Iraq will be invaded and happy world_war_III.

[Megaharrison]

Proper deterrence is in order, espeically when Israel have hundreds of nukes. Iran have the same right as anyone else to have nukes. Iran arnt aggressors, atleast not compared to USA, Israel and their neighbours.

Iran doesn't need nukes to defend itself against Israel. Israel has never attacked or harmed Iran in any way and represents no threat to Iran. Iran and Israel were allies before Iran chose to make Israel its enemy. Moreover Israel never considered attacking Iran before they began a nuclear program, thus the nuclear program is having the completely adverse effect of attracting Israeli attack.

To have Israel leave it alone all Iran needs to do is halt aggressive acts against Israel in the first place. This is completely possible for Iran as Iran does not need to commit these aggressive acts on Israel for its own well being.

Lol, you're such a tool. Just because I support their policy against the zionist regime, doesnt mean I support their other policy.


It's not like every american that supports Israel turns their cheek away from the murders of Israel, everthing is not black & white I'm afraid.

So you support the expansion of power of this highly oppressive and cruel regime because it attacks Israel? Moreover, Iranian activity against Israel is reserved almost exclusively for attacks on Israeli civilians? Iranians and gays now mean so much less to you then killing Israeli civilians? Why do you care so little for Iranians and the plight of oppressed homosexuals?

[gonen]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3350467,00.html



Since when a few lame students from Haifa university = Majority of all Jews in the world?

You said that the Majority of all Jews in the world hates Arab. I am still waiting for a reliable statistics or representative for your claim.

[gonen]

Did you learn anything from Iraq?

If Israel attacks, Iran will counter strike, Iraq will be invaded and happy world_war_III.

And if Iran will get an Atom bomb, Israel will be destroyed.










Damn, my claim sucks. It doesn't matter to you that innocent Israelis will get killed.

[1mmortal 1tachi]

Y'know. They wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel, crunch big numbers or employ a team of physicists to build a missile of this type.

They'd just have to obtain schematical data of existing missiles and have the capability to build to spec.

Of course, considering its Iran, photoshop is always an option.

[Lezard Valeth]

And if Iran will get an Atom bomb, Israel will be destroyed.










Damn, my claim sucks. It doesn't matter to you that innocent Israelis will get killed.

If Iran tried to nuke Israel, there would be an automatic counter attack and Iran would be obliterated too, why do you insist in suggesting Iran is suicidal, you are insulting all Iranians intelligence.






Damn, my claim sucks. It doesn't matter if you insult Iranians.

[gonen]

If Iran tried to nuke Israel, there would be an automatic counter attack and Iran would be obliterated too, why do you insist in suggesting Iran is suicidal, you are insulting all Iranians intelligence.






Damn, my claim sucks. It doesn't matter if you insult Iranians.

The problem is that the leadership of Iran is not the Iranian nation's will, we saw what has happened after the elections.
Actually, I have a great faith in the Iranian people. I really believe that they oppose in their heart to Ahmadinijad's dictatorship.

[Degelle]

Iran doesn't need nukes to defend itself against Israel. Israel has never attacked or harmed Iran in any way and represents no threat to Iran. Iran and Israel were allies before Iran chose to make Israel its enemy. Moreover Israel never considered attacking Iran before they began a nuclear program, thus the nuclear program is having the completely adverse effect of attracting Israeli attack.

To have Israel leave it alone all Iran needs to do is halt aggressive acts against Israel in the first place. This is completely possible for Iran as Iran does not need to commit these aggressive acts on Israel for its own well being.
Israel is the ones that invades and occupies nations, I'd also like to have a nuke at my bed table when I have such an aggressive neighbour.

Iran having nukes is about as worrying for Israel, as it is for Iran that Israel have them.

Bias much?


So you support the expansion of power of this highly oppressive and cruel regime because it attacks Israel? Moreover, Iranian activity against Israel is reserved almost exclusively for attacks on Israeli civilians? Iranians and gays now mean so much less to you then killing Israeli civilians? Why do you care so little for Iranians and the plight of oppressed homosexuals?
Giggle, MegaTroll should be your new nickname. :zaru

Iran has no activity against Israel, other than their political policy. Please, do not bring up armaments suppliment, I wouldnt want to go in and blame USA for murdering Palestinians.

http://soljournal.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/end_of_zionism_equals_peace1.jpg

Couldnt have said it better myself!

Since when a few lame students from Haifa university = Majority of all Jews in the world?

You said that the Majority of all Jews in the world hates Arab. I am still waiting for a reliable statistics or representative for your claim.
....I never said that the majority of all jews hate arabs, geez Gonen...

Whatever, you claim that Israel is not a racist state. <--- Wtf man? How can you say that? That's just insane. I just gave you two reasons which makes Israel a racist state. Look at MH, LOL, he fucking hates those unclean, uneducated, uncivilized arabs!

Afterall, it's justified, "rockets are raining down" on Israel. :ho

[Lezard Valeth]

The problem if that the leadership of Iran is not the Iranian nation's will, we saw what has happened after the elections.
Actually, I have a great faith in the Iranian people. I really believe that they oppose in their heart to Ahmadinijad's dictatorship.
Ahmadinijad is just a figurehead, I'm sure you know he has absolutely no military power, his bark is bigger than his bite. No matter how much Ahmadinijad hates Israel, the Iranian supreme leader will never do something that means the end of the Iranian civilization, which is over 5000 years old.

[Simulacrum]

Of course, considering its Iran, photoshop is always an option. would shooping be classified as 4th generation warfare?

[Megaharrison]

Israel is the ones that invades and occupies nations, I'd also like to have a nuke at my bed table when I have such an aggressive neighbour.

Iran having nukes is about as worrying for Israel, as it is for Iran that Israel have them.


Why and even how exactly is Israel going to "invade" Iran? Do you have any idea of the political, historical, military, and geographical situation here?

Why is Israel Iran's enemy? Why should Iran be worried of Israel? What has Israel ever done to Iran? Why exactly is it that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan currently have nuclear programs that are not bothered by Israel?


Iran has no activity against Israel, other than their political policy. Please, do not bring up armaments suppliment, I wouldnt want to go in and blame USA for murdering Palestinians.

Hezbollah is run entirely by Iran by this point, and entirely armed and funded by them for the express purpose of attacking Israeli civilians. Hamas is in the same boat. This is why Iran is our enemy, and asking me not to bring this fact up is not a credible counter.

Now if Iran were to halt these activities against us then they would no longer be our enemy, as was the case 1948-1979. But when Iranian rockets fired by people trained by Iran from an organization run by Iran are launched at our civilians, we hold Iran responsible.

Look at MH, LOL, he fucking hates those unclean, uneducated, uncivilized arabs!

Evidence.

[Akatora]

"There is nothing such as innocence, only degrees of guilt"

Quote from DOW



The fewer nukes in the world the better, saying you should have a nuke because someone else does= just make the risk for everyone that much higher


come on Scientists make the Iron cannon and get rid of all of this Nuke bs

[Bleach]

Not so secret now.

[Degelle]

Why and even how exactly is Israel going to "invade" Iran? Do you have any idea of the political, historical, military, and geographical situation here?
Gee, MHtroll, I dunno, maybe ask big daddy USA to invade it? :zaru

And, really, it's not like Israel cares about geographical, religious, or political circumstances.


Why is Israel Iran's enemy? Why should Iran be worried of Israel? What has Israel ever done to Iran? Why exactly is it that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan currently have nuclear programs that are not bothered by Israel?
Gee, I dunno, perhaps that they've continusly stated that they will bomb Irans nuclear sites?

Israel threatens Iran on a daily basis.

Also, the religious issues, but I have no intetions of debating that with an atheist, so just ignore the very thing that brough your state in to existance.


Hezbollah is run entirely by Iran by this point, and entirely armed and funded by them for the express purpose of attacking Israeli civilians. Hamas is in the same boat. This is why Iran is our enemy, and asking me not to bring this fact up is not a credible counter.
Show me proof that Hezbollah is run by Iran. :zaru

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation, unless Israel is a terrorist state.

[Megaharrison]

Gee, MHtroll, I dunno, maybe ask big daddy USA to invade it? :zaru

When has that ever happened.

And, really, it's not like Israel cares about geographical, religious, or political circumstances.

When has Israel ever done anything threatening or harmful to Iran at any point before Iran ever committed any aggressive acts against Israel.

Give me 1 legitimate reason for Iran to be an enemy of Israel. You must do this to have any credibility here.


Gee, I dunno, perhaps that they've continusly stated that they will bomb Irans nuclear sites?

Israel threatens Iran on a daily basis.

This is because of Iran's status as our enemy, something that can be easily rectified if they were to leave us alone. Why do we not threaten to bomb Egyptian, Jordanian, or Saudi nuclear sites?


Also, the religious issues, but I have no intetions of debating that with an atheist, so just ignore the very thing that brough your state in to existance.

If Iran wants to acquire nuclear weapons so they can continue fighting us because of religion, this easily classifies Iran as the utterly unjustified one here.


Show me proof that Hezbollah is run by Iran. :zaru

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1067036.html

They took up command of the organization after Mughinyeh died. In any regard Iran is clearly committing aggressive acts against us by being the sole benefactor of Hezbollah and Hamas alongside Syria. Be it weapons or training. To say these acts do not classify as pure aggression given the fact you can provide 1 legitimate reason for Iran to be Israel's enemy is pure idiocy.

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organisation, unless Israel is a terrorist state.

Hezbollah bases its entire military strategy around attacking civilians (they base themselves around their rocket arsenal, which serves no military value), Israel does not.

And you've yet to answer the question: why does attacking Israeli civilians matter more to you then the oppression of Iranian democracy and the plight of its gays?

[MunchKing]

Lol @ thread derailment.

I do have my reservations about Iran having reasonably high tech weaponry. We'll see.


Also, the religious issues, but I have no intetions of debating that with an atheist, so just ignore the very thing that brough your state in to existance.


That one is a cheap cop out, you know it. At least list them for us to read. I'd be happy to learn more regarding Iran's religious issues.

[Diceman]

That one is a cheap cop out, you know it. At least list them for us to read. I'd be happy to learn more regarding Iran's religious issues.
She's just being a textbook christian and does cop outs everytime she's in a situation where her tome can't help her.Her hatred of zionists stems from them mostly being atheists and jews

[Dark Uchiha]

isnt this the green light Israel is waiting for? or are they waiting on U.S to back them up on this?

[Lezard Valeth]

isnt this the green light Israel is waiting for? or are they waiting on U.S to back them up on this?

The french dwarf-president has given implicit approval for strikes in december, and israeli authorities have purposedly leaked rumours about strikes in december to prepare the opinion. Unless Obama can prevent it, I believe the Israel authorities will lauch strikes in december. Iran will certainly flood Israel and Iraq with missiles and the issue could be disastrous.

[Megaharrison]

The french dwarf-president has given implicit approval for strikes in december, and israeli authorities have purposedly leaked rumours about strikes in december to prepare the opinion. Unless Obama can prevent it, I believe the Israel authorities will lauch strikes in december. Iran will certainly flood Israel and Iraq with missiles and the issue could be disastrous.

Limited numbers of cheap scud knock-offs can't destroy or even devastate Israel, you always seem to vastly overestimate Iran's military capability. Mass Iraqi scud attacks killed 5 Israeli civilians in the past, and this was when we had no home front precautions or missile defense systems. Iran won't attack Iraq as it is both military incapable of invading it and because doing so would result in the swift destruction of its military by the U.S., and even the senile old fools that run Iran aren't that stupid.

[Lezard Valeth]

Limited numbers of cheap scud knock-offs can't destroy or even devastate Israel, you always seem to vastly overestimate Iran's military capability. Mass Iraqi scud attacks killed 5 Israeli civilians in the past, and this was when we had no home front precautions or missile defense systems. Iran won't attack Iraq as it is both military incapable of invading it and because doing so would result in the swift destruction of its military by the U.S., and even the senile old fools that run Iran aren't that stupid.

Iran can definitely invade Iraq. Or at least the Shii part of it, with popular support as bonus. the US troops have already enough in their hands with insurgency to take care of more trouble, and there is another war in Afghanistan that demands much attention. Also count on both Russia and China to back up Iran in that war because these two powers want the US out of Iraq.

As I said it could escalate very dangerously up to a WW3. If Israel wants to drag us in another war, I'll support Israel disarmament by any mean necessary, including an invasion.

[Xion]

I give the program until summer before Israel launches missiles at it.

I actually wouldn't blame Israel as Iran are just being douches now.

But it will give very bad press to the West in the eyes of so many "sensible" Middle Easterners.

*sigh*

The West can never win. :(

[Altron]

Iran can definitely invade Iraq. Or at least the Shii part of it, with popular support as bonus. the US troops have already enough in their hands with insurgency to take care of more trouble, and there is another war in Afghanistan that demands much attention. Also count on both Russia and China to back up Iran in that war because these two powers want the US out of Iraq.
If Iraq is draining the resources and manpower of the US in Iraq then why would they want to US to leave since it would be in their best interests for US to stay and keep wasting their resources.

You forget if Iranian troops cross the border to invade Iraq, not only will they been seen as the agressors which is bad. The US won't have to hold back like they have been doing in villages in Iraq to avoid civilian and indiscriminate casualties, and proceed to bomb the shit out of any Iranian forces that try and fire upon US Troops. I highly doubt Russia and China would waste their time supporting Iran especially if Iran starts the aggression. You really think Russia and China value Iran moreso than the US? You forget Russia and China are not very fond of muslims and terrorists and the cost and worth of supporting Iran if they tried to stupidly invade Iraq outweigh the benefits. Remember other than like 2 countries, everyone else in the Middle east are not friendly with Iran especially Saudi Arabia which can fuck up Iran with its military as much as Israel or the US. Since the Saudi's love to buy the latest weapons and technology from the US,etc..

As I said it could escalate very dangerously up to a WW3. If Israel wants to drag us in another war, I'll support Israel disarmament by any mean necessary, including an invasion.
Really nice logic, guess then the same can be said of people supporting Iranian disarmament by any means necessary including an invasion. Do you ever think before you post or do you just like to run your mouth off?

Seriously please get off Israel's dick.:zaru

[Megaharrison]

Iran can definitely invade Iraq. Or at least the Shii part of it, with popular support as bonus.

They tried this in the 1980's against a much weaker opponent with their military in better shape (Shah's legacy army was superior to the Iranian military of today when put into context and perhaps even out of context) and it failed miserably.

the US troops have already enough in their hands with insurgency to take care of more trouble, and there is another war in Afghanistan that demands much attention.

Any Iranian invasion force would be pummeled by the 3,000+ combat aircraft the US has available. You can't launch an invasion without air superiority these days, and this is even more true given the primitive state of the Iranian military. Not to mention Iran lacks the logistical sophistication or projective capabilities for such a massive operation.

Also count on both Russia and China to back up Iran in that war because these two powers want the US out of Iraq.

Russia and China getting involved would escalate into global Armageddon or at the very least destroy their economies, something neither are stupid enough to do. Honestly it's not the Cold War anymore, not to mention that even during the Cold War you didn't get that type of behavior (never mind today). There's no indication either side are going to invade Iraq with the Iranians because they opposed the war in Iraq.

As I said it could escalate very dangerously up to a WW3. If Israel wants to drag us in another war, I'll support Israel disarmament by any mean necessary, including an invasion.

An American war with Israel would be far bloodier then an American war with Iran. Not to mention that one can actually lead to armageddon. This makes sense. You're just so Israel-phobic you want to bring about global destruction. Pathetically insane.

In any regard even Iran isn't suicidal enough to attack the US and thus destroy its military/economy/infrastructure, you really are hysterical over this whole thing.

[Lezard Valeth]

Israel-phobic, proof?

I love all peaceful people, I treat peaceful people as family, including peaceful Israelis.

But the minority of Israeli assholes is giving the majority a bad name, that's all.

[Vom Osten]

She's just being a textbook christian and does cop outs everytime she's in a situation where her tome can't help her.Her hatred of zionists stems from them mostly being atheists and jews

A. I highly doubt she is Christian as she's from Scandinavia where Christianity is practically dead. So I don't see the value of this except as a cheap attack against Christianity on a thread that has nothing to do with Christianity or anything remotely close to Christianity.

B. I don't think anyone would call Nazi's Christian...

Besides, Iran started its Nuclear program which is why Israel is threatening to wreck it. As Iran started this mess, they're at fault.

[Diceman]

^She already said she was Christian.Also,No True Scotsman:zaru

[dummy plug]

well its no longer a secret :kaga

[Degelle]

When has that ever happened.
Zionist lobby has it's way! :zaru



When has Israel ever done anything threatening or harmful to Iran at any point before Iran ever committed any aggressive acts against Israel.

Give me 1 legitimate reason for Iran to be an enemy of Israel. You must do this to have any credibility here.

This is because of Iran's status as our enemy, something that can be easily rectified if they were to leave us alone. Why do we not threaten to bomb Egyptian, Jordanian, or Saudi nuclear sites?
How about that they've illegally occupied Palestine and Lebanon? That alone is reason to hold a grudge against someone. You might make the claim that Iran has no relation to does nations, but they do. Their feelings are very much understandable when you see how Israel treats Palestinians.

Israelis are seen by many in the Middle East as foreign agressors.

But really why don't you just say it, you poor lill' victim? THEY'RE JUST ANTI-SEMITIC. THEY HATE JEWS.

If Iran wants to acquire nuclear weapons so they can continue fighting us because of religion, this easily classifies Iran as the utterly unjustified one here.
Your state is there because of religion, please dont take the religious issue here lightly. If you don't want to accept the religious strife, you might aswell pack up your bags, disband Israel and go disapora for another couple of hundred years.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1067036.html

They took up command of the organization after Mughinyeh died. In any regard Iran is clearly committing aggressive acts against us by being the sole benefactor of Hezbollah and Hamas alongside Syria. Be it weapons or training. To say these acts do not classify as pure aggression given the fact you can provide 1 legitimate reason for Iran to be Israel's enemy is pure idiocy.
That's MH's proof. :lmao

Now, lets bomb Iran! By your logic, the Palestinians are justified to murder american women and children, not to mention Israel. Since that's exactly what Israel did. :zaru


Hezbollah bases its entire military strategy around attacking civilians (they base themselves around their rocket arsenal, which serves no military value), Israel does not.
We know for a fact that Israel uses humans shields, all the time.


And you've yet to answer the question: why does attacking Israeli civilians matter more to you then the oppression of Iranian democracy and the plight of its gays?
"Attacking Israeli civilians", trolling again are we?

I think I've told you already, just because I prefer Iran over Israel, doesnt mean I agree with everything they do. Just like everyone that holds Israel hands will not agree with the oppression of Palestinians.

I mean, really MH, how DENSE are you, really? I'm talking to brick wall over here, the hate is so intense!


That one is a cheap cop out, you know it. At least list them for us to read. I'd be happy to learn more regarding Iran's religious issues.
It's ludicrous to begin with, MH wont embrace it, yet he's sitting there in Israel, a state based on: "GOD GAVE US THIS LAND."

If religion wouldnt have been a factor, MH would be living in madagaskar or some other place, and we would have no middle east conflict.

The jews were meant to live in disapora until the messiah came, that's why the ulta ortodox jews hate zionism more than anyone else.

[Jin-E]

We're not, but a very anti-Israel, pro-Palestine seems to be the majority case amongst The Northmen :edu

Or at least the ones I see on teh interwebs.

Pretty much the truth

In Norway, the media, leftist, Islamic organizations, various universities and even members of the State Church clergy have repeatedly called Israel " an Apartheid state" and have urged boicots in multiple areas, such as cultural and academic.

A party that belongs to our present coalition government, Sosialistiske Venstreparti( Socialist Left Party) has themself actively encouraged Norwegians to boicot Israeli products.

[Razgriez]

Zionist lobby has it's way! :zaru



How about that they've illegally occupied Palestine and Lebanon? That alone is reason to hold a grudge against someone. You might make the claim that Iran has no relation to does nations, but they do. Their feelings are very much understandable when you see how Israel treats Palestinians.

Israelis are seen by many in the Middle East as foreign agressors.

But really why don't you just say it, you poor lill' victim? THEY'RE JUST ANTI-SEMITIC. THEY HATE JEWS.

Your state is there because of religion, please dont take the religious issue here lightly. If you don't want to accept the religious strife, you might aswell pack up your bags, disband Israel and go disapora for another couple of hundred years.


That's MH's proof. :lmao

Now, lets bomb Iran! By your logic, the Palestinians are justified to murder american women and children, not to mention Israel. Since that's exactly what Israel did. :zaru


We know for a fact that Israel uses humans shields, all the time.


"Attacking Israeli civilians", trolling again are we?

I think I've told you already, just because I prefer Iran over Israel, doesnt mean I agree with everything they do. Just like everyone that holds Israel hands will not agree with the oppression of Palestinians.

I mean, really MH, how DENSE are you, really? I'm talking to brick wall over here, the hate is so intense!


It's ludicrous to begin with, MH wont embrace it, yet he's sitting there in Israel, a state based on: "GOD GAVE US THIS LAND."

If religion wouldnt have been a factor, MH would be living in madagaskar or some other place, and we would have no middle east conflict.

The jews were meant to live in disapora until the messiah came, that's why the ulta ortodox jews hate zionism more than anyone else.

I think you need to step back for a second and stop giving a fuck about the middle east. It would do us all a lot of good... Except for maybe the sorry bastards living there.

[Shinobi Mugen]

No one fucking cares...

[Xyloxi]

No one fucking cares...

People do care, if not they wouldn't have posted here.

[Kirsty]

Does it make me a bad person that the only thing bothering me about a possible large scale war killing millions down there is that it'd fuck the stock market yet again?

Of course not. The only thing I'm worried about is how we are going to get it on screen.

And how much popcorn I have to make.

Such high numbers don't mean anything to the mind because we can not properly comprehend the true scale of such a slaughter.

:ryoma

Prolly nothing will happen :zaru

[Megaharrison]

Zionist lobby has it's way! :zaru

So you base a ridiculous conspiracy theory on no precedent or examples. The U.S. has gone to war for the Arabs, but never Israel.



How about that they've illegally occupied Palestine and Lebanon? That alone is reason to hold a grudge against someone. You might make the claim that Iran has no relation to does nations, but they do. Their feelings are very much understandable when you see how Israel treats Palestinians.

This is a ridiculous reason and not legitimate. Iran's major ally, North Korea, has committed acts that dwarf Israel's "crimes". Sudan commits genocide as the Iranian weapons and funds keep rolling in. Then there's Russia's policies in Chechnya or China's wth the Ugurs. Iran itself backs groups that brutally slaughter Muslims (Madi Army) and repress them (Hamas). It has nothing to do with human rights (North Korea, Sudan), or how Muslims are treated (China, Russia, Madi Army) for that matter.

Israelis are seen by many in the Middle East as foreign agressors.

Perceiving someone as an "Aggressor" is not a legitimate reason for you to commit aggressive acts against that country. It's like saying Canada has the right to start arming Islamic terrorists in Thailand because it doesn't like Thailand's border policy with Cambodia. Moreover, Israel now perceives Lebanon as the aggressor in its border dispute with Syria. Israel now has the right to arm Syrians to attack Lebanese civilians. Yet another example of how much you hate Muslims. You always wish such harm upon them :laugh

But really why don't you just say it, you poor lill' victim? THEY'RE JUST ANTI-SEMITIC. THEY HATE JEWS.

You want to say Iran is the victim here yet can't provide 1 legitimate reason for Iran to have its policies with Israel. Iran is in the wrong, Israel is in the right on whole Iranian problem issue. Still waiting for that reason.

Your state is there because of religion, please dont take the religious issue here lightly. If you don't want to accept the religious strife, you might aswell pack up your bags, disband Israel and go disapora for another couple of hundred years.

The religious reason for Iran's aggression is not a legitimate reason. It's primitive and barbaric. Moreover, it allows Israel to now conquer the rest of the Middle East in the name of creating Greater Israel and lets us demolish the Al Aqsa Mosque. Israel has done neither, but you seem to advocate this concept (yet another indication of how much you hate Arabs and Muslims). Why do you again advocate the destruction of the Al Aqsa Mosque Degelle?


That's MH's proof. :lmao

Now, lets bomb Iran! By your logic, the Palestinians are justified to murder american women and children, not to mention Israel. Since that's exactly what Israel did. :zaru

It's yet another example of how extensively Iran is behind Hezbollah and Hamas. You have to be a complete ignoramus to deny the link. Because of said link Iran is our enemy. It's a simple concept you've yet to repudiate. Not to mention I answered your question (evidence that Iran runs Hezbollah) and you still bitch about it. Talk about bratty.

And my logic doesn't include the murder of women and children so no idea where you got that. If you're going to imitate what I do to you three times a week at least get it right.


We know for a fact that Israel uses humans shields, all the time.

If Israel had the same policy as Hezbollah (which is what this BS was supposed to "counter"), we would fire everything we had blindly into a Palestinian civilian center that had no military targets. I wonder how much you'd love that? How many Palestinians would die? And you praise Hezbollah, such hypocrisy.

And evidence how Israel bases its entire policy around the express targeting and killing of civilians.


"Attacking Israeli civilians", trolling again are we?

So you're denying that Hezbollah and Hamas do not purposefully attack Israeli civilians? You must now explain why Hezbollah's primary weapon are blind artillery rockets which it fires at Israeli cities, despite the fact the weapon and the target hold no military value. You must now explain why Hamas does the same thing and also sends suicide bombers into public buses.

I think I've told you already, just because I prefer Iran over Israel, doesnt mean I agree with everything they do. Just like everyone that holds Israel hands will not agree with the oppression of Palestinians.

So because of your stupid grudge against Israel you condemn millions of Iranian gays to vicious oppression? A nuclear weapon would massively expand the power and stability of the Ayatollah regime, it would guarantee its existence for quite some time. Basically, you want to see these Iranians continue to suffer under that anachronistic and barbaric regime. It's sick.

It's ludicrous to begin with, MH wont embrace it, yet he's sitting there in Israel, a state based on: "GOD GAVE US THIS LAND."

If religion wouldnt have been a factor, MH would be living in madagaskar or some other place, and we would have no middle east conflict.

The jews were meant to live in disapora until the messiah came, that's why the ulta ortodox jews hate zionism more than anyone else.

You seem pretty ignorant of Israeli history and politics if you think it's bizarre to find secular and/or nationalistic Israeli's. One of our greatest national heroes, Moshe Dayan, followed my same mindset. We're the most secular state in the region. I've said it before I'd say it again: read a book.

[Karsh]

The Iranian government sure isn't helping itself here. :facepalm
Thery're butthurt that other countries wants them to disarm and yet Iran is still being openly hostile.
Even diplomacy has been shoved out the door.

The development was today described by nuclear experts as "breathtaking"

A weapon of genocide and mass destruction is "breathtaking".

Sick.

[Degelle]

So you base a ridiculous conspiracy theory on no precedent or examples. The U.S. has gone to war for the Arabs, but never Israel.

This is a ridiculous reason and not legitimate. Iran's major ally, North Korea, has committed acts that dwarf Israel's "crimes". Sudan commits genocide as the Iranian weapons and funds keep rolling in. Then there's Russia's policies in Chechnya or China's wth the Ugurs. Iran itself backs groups that brutally slaughter Muslims (Madi Army) and repress them (Hamas). It has nothing to do with human rights (North Korea, Sudan), or how Muslims are treated (China, Russia, Madi Army) for that matter.

Perceiving someone as an "Aggressor" is not a legitimate reason for you to commit aggressive acts against that country. It's like saying Canada has the right to start arming Islamic terrorists in Thailand because it doesn't like Thailand's border policy with Cambodia. Moreover, Israel now perceives Lebanon as the aggressor in its border dispute with Syria. Israel now has the right to arm Syrians to attack Lebanese civilians.

Yet another example of how much you hate Muslims. You always wish such harm upon them :laugh

You want to say Iran is the victim here yet can't provide 1 legitimate reason for Iran to have its policies with Israel. Iran is in the wrong, Israel is in the right on whole Iranian problem issue. Still waiting for that reason.

The religious reason for Iran's aggression is not a legitimate reason. It's primitive and barbaric. Moreover, it allows Israel to now conquer the rest of the Middle East in the name of creating Greater Israel and lets us demolish the Al Aqsa Mosque. Israel has done neither, but you seem to advocate this concept (yet another indication of how much you hate Arabs and Muslims). Why do you again advocate the destruction of the Al Aqsa Mosque Degelle?
"The religious reason for Iran's aggression is not a legitimate reason." But the creation of Israel was legimate? Go and kindly ************************

Why don't you just say it you troll? You want to. Poor little MH, the little victim.

Just say it: Iran are anti-semitic and hate jews. That's what you want to say, right? Why dont you say? What other reasons are their from your point of view? You just said it yourself, none.

Fact is, Iranians don't hate jews, many jews live in Iran, there's no oppression against them, and they don't hate Israel. Their stance toward Israel has really not that much to do with Israel itself, it has to do with the politcs of the region specfically, and the religious ties, Iran's relationship with the Arabs and muslims. You're so fucking dense, you cant even get that through your thick skull. :zaru

Iran's hostile policy toward Israel is a means to an end, it allows Iran to enjoy better relations with the rest of the region, and in return, only loses Iran a strategically unimportant relationship with Israel. Simply put, by being hostile to Israel, buys Iran the support and apathy of most of the Arab regimes in the region, instead of having several hostile relationships with several arab states. That in itself might be a legimate reason, USA uses it all the time. But as I said, there's also the religious conflict, which you cant seem to respect.

This is basicly why Iran hasnt had any relations with USA, but they're trying to fix that now. And if they do, Israel will be seen as a hassle



It's yet another example of how extensively Iran is behind Hezbollah and Hamas. You have to be a complete ignoramus to deny the link. Because of said link Iran is our enemy. It's a simple concept you've yet to repudiate. Not to mention I answered your question (evidence that Iran runs Hezbollah) and you still bitch about it. Talk about bratty.
You're not in a position to talk about bratty, you troll. :zaru

Really, does that link prove that Hezbollah is run by Iran? Hah, oh my god.


And my logic doesn't include the murder of women and children so no idea where you got that. If you're going to imitate what I do to you three times a week at least get it right.
Why not? USA works for Israel in the same way that Iran work for Hezbollah. Yes, your logic invovles murder women and children, you're scum. :zaru


If Israel had the same policy as Hezbollah (which is what this BS was supposed to "counter"), we would fire everything we had blindly into a Palestinian civilian center that had no military targets. I wonder how much you'd love that? How many Palestinians would die? And you praise Hezbollah, such hypocrisy.
Awh, you'd love that, right? More palestinian scalps for the collection!

Hezbollah does everything they can in order to whipe out the Israel civilians? :lmao


And evidence how Israel bases its entire policy around the express targeting and killing of civilians.
Like the UN schools and shit? the 1400 killed in less than 20 days? Right.




So you're denying that Hezbollah and Hamas do not purposefully attack Israeli civilians? You must now explain why Hezbollah's primary weapon are blind artillery rockets which it fires at Israeli cities, despite the fact the weapon and the target hold no military value. You must now explain why Hamas does the same thing and also sends suicide bombers into public buses.
I think the figure 19 pepople killed in 10 years is proof enough that they do not intend to kill civilians. As I said, I could go better with a sling shot, I suppose a educated and trained military faction would do better than me.

Its basicly the same concept you used the last quote.


So because of your stupid grudge against Israel you condemn millions of Iranian gays to vicious oppression? A nuclear weapon would massively expand the power and stability of the Ayatollah regime, it would guarantee its existence for quite some time. Basically, you want to see these Iranians continue to suffer under that anachronistic and barbaric regime. It's sick.
I'd rather see Iran with a nuclear warhead, above USA and Israel, any, fucking, day. Not because of their interntal policy, but because of their exterior policy. They arnt aggressive. Israel is. USA is. Come back when Iran have invaded nation, occupied them, and killed peps for no appearnt reason, than I might change my mind.

You want to see Palestinians suffer because of the barbaric zionist regime, you're sick.


You seem pretty ignorant of Israeli history and politics if you think it's bizarre to find secular and/or nationalistic Israeli's. One of our greatest national heroes, Moshe Dayan, followed my same mindset. We're the most secular state in the region. I've said it before I'd say it again: read a book.
Your state is based on terrorism and racism, disband zionism and insert a new regime, give back Jerusalem, or make it a jewish/palestinian capital city, help the palestinians create a stable state, enjoy your peace.

I wonder if your history books teaches about the stern gang.

[1mmortal 1tachi]

would shooping be classified as 4th generation warfare?

To Iran, yes.

[Megaharrison]

"The religious reason for Iran's aggression is not a legitimate reason." But the creation of Israel was legimate? Go and kindly rape your own face.

This is a lame attempt to distract from your failure to find a legitimate reason for Iran's aggression.

If you accept that Iran's religious motives are legitimate, then you also in turn accept that your idea that Israel's creation was religious is also legitimate and in turn now allow Israel to conquer the greater Middle East and destroy the Al Aqsa Mosque. I do not consider Iran's religious reasons legitimate, and am a secular Israeli (Which exists, I'm sorry you don't like it but they simply do).


Why don't you just say it you troll? You want to. Poor little MH, the little victim. :zaru

Just say it: Iran are anti-semitic and hate jews. That's what you want to say, right? Why dont you say? What other reasons are their from your point of view? You just said it yourself none.

I'm not going to say something just because you ask me to. Though Iran and its proxy's have often expressed anti-semitism I believe their motives to be religiously based rather then racially.

Fact is, Iranians don't hate jews, many jews live in Iran, there's no oppression against them, and they don't hate Israel. Their stance toward Israel has really not that much to do with Israel itself, it has to do with the politcs of the region specfically, and the religious ties, Iran's relationship with the Arabs and muslims. You're so fucking dense, you cant even get that through your thick skull. :zaru

Iran isn't Arab, and its foreign policy is also at odds with the major Arab powers in the region (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, etc..) and Iran has never cared about the persecution of Arabs or Muslims (see my earlier post on this subject), so this idea that they're coming to the aid of the Arabs is silly. Moreover it's not justified. You can't go and commit aggression against Israel because you don't like what's happening to Arabs. If this was legitimate, then the U.S. war in Iraq is now justified. Why do you support the War in Iraq Degelle?

I've yet to get that legitimate reason for Iran's aggression against Israel.

Iran's hostile policy toward Israel is a means to an end, it allows Iran to enjoy better relations with the rest of the region, and in return, only loses Iran a strategically unimportant relationship with Israel. Simply put, by being hostile to Israel, buys Iran the support and apathy of most of the Arab regimes in the region, instead of having several hostile relationships with several arab states.

This is basicly why Iran hasnt had any relations with USA, but they're trying to fix that now. And if they do, Israel will be seen as a hassle


Iran's hostile policy towards Israel doesn't help them with relations, quite the opposite. The primary Arab powers, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, are in open opposition to Iran because of its aggressive policies, Egypt currently has Hezbollah members on trial and Iran's nuclear program has increased tensions with Saudi Arabia to the point where they're massively preparing their military to fight Iran. Saudi Arabia is trying to push Syria into moving out of Iran's sphere of influence and into theirs, which would mean no longer fighting Israel. Yemen is currently in a diplomatic spat with Iran over Hezbollah as well. Iran and Syria are the only countries in the region which still fight Israel, so this idea that they do it to foster relations with Arab countries is ludicrous. You simply are too ignorant on regional politics.

Moreover it is not a legitimate reason. Committing aggression on other countries as a means to foster better relations with another is not justifiable. If it was, then Turkey may now invade Armenia to foster better ties with Azerbaijan. Israel may also invade Iran to foster better relations with Morocco. So now degelle supports an Israeli invasion of Iran? More examples of you hating the Iranian people.

I've yet to get that legitimate reason for Iranian aggression against Israel.

Really, does that link prove that Hezbollah is run by Iran? Hah, oh my god.

Evidence that Iran does not run Hezbollah then. Moreover this "point" of yours doesn't repudiate my reason that Iran's massive backing and management of the organization makes them our enemy.

Why not? USA works for Israel in the same way that Iran work for Hezbollah. Yes, your logic invovles murder women and children, you're scum. :zaru

USA supporting Israel does not mean Iran is not our enemy for supporting Hezbollah and Hamas. This is a fallacy that proves nothing on your part.

Moreover Israel doesn't base its entire policy around attacking civilians, a critical difference from Hezbollah. If we did, then we would simply base all of our military actions around firing artillery into civilian neighborhoods, something that would annihilate the Palestinians.

Hezbollah does everything they can in order to whipe out the Israel civilians? :lmao

It tries its best to kill them correct, why else would you base your entire military strategy around the firing of blind rockets with no military value into civilian areas.


Like the UN schools and shit? the 1400 killed in less than 20 days? Right.

Our fire accidentally landed near (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza/index.html) the school (why would we fire something near a school if we wanted to hit it). If we wanted to blow up UN schools we would have actually targeted them instead of 1 incident where we didn't even hit it. 1,400 in 20 days does not indicate a deliberate policy of killing civilians. Israel could have killed 400,000 in 20 days if it wanted. Moreover we wouldn't have taken such precautions to not kill civilians (precision munitions) if this was the case.

I think the figure 19 pepople killed in 10 years is proof enough that they do not intend to kill civilians. As I said, I could go better with a sling shot, I suppose a educated and trained military faction would do better than me.

Incompetency is not an indication of intent. How can Hamas and Hezbollah kill more civilians then if it's so easy? Moreover your concept doesn't even make sense. Hezbollah fired 4,000 rockets at Israeli civilians and Hamas/allies fired 8,000 rockets at Israeli civilians without the intent to kill them? Is this is what you're suggesting?

Not to mention this is ignoring Hezbollah killing dozens of Israeli civilians within a few weeks (again your figures are horribly off).


I'd rather see Iran with a nuclear warhead, above USA and Israel, any, fucking, day. Not because of their interntal policy, but because of their exterior policy.

A nuclear weapon guarantee's the continued stability and expansion of the Iranian regime. Thus you put Iranian policy against Israel as greater value then Iran's oppressed civilians and homosexual population? Why is the killing of Israeli civilians (Iranian foreign policy towards Israel) more important to you then Iranian teenagers being murdered for being gay?

Why do you like Iranian foreign policy so much anyway? Look at what it did to Lebanon and Gaza. If Hezbollah never attacked us in 2006 and if Hamas never did the same in 2005-2008 then both operations would have never occurred. And these attacks which brought such devastation on the Arabs were directly due to Iranian policy.

They arnt aggressive. Israel is. USA is.

What does Iran having a nuclear bomb have to do with "Israeli aggression". Israel has nothing to do with Iran and is over 1,000 miles from it.

Moreover Iran is aggressive, it arms groups across the region that have nothing to do with its self-interest (Hezbollah, Hamas, Mahdi Army, Houthi's) for no reason other to extend their influence. This is Imperialism.

Come back when Iran have invaded nation, occupied them, and killed peps for no appearnt reason, than I might change my mind.

This concept that the only way to be aggressive is to invade someone is so hilariously childish and simplistic. It isn't 1910 anymore. I know you're not the brightest individual, but at least try to understand concepts more complex then "Army A attacks Army B".


Your state is based on terrorism and racism, disband zionism and insert a new regime, give back Jerusalem, or make it a jewish/palestinian capital city, help the palestinians create a stable state, enjoy your peace.

What does this BS have to do with anything (that I'm a secular Israeli).

Moreover this wouldn't even create peace. Iran and its allies do not care about any of that. They hate Israel itself. Iran does not really care about the Palestinians (See: Iranian policy towards oppressed groups). This concept was shown a complete sham when we withdrew from Gaza and got 8,000 rockets for it (not to mention a Palestinian Civil War). No, we'll allow for the creation of Palestinian state when the Palestinians demonstrate they're read to not fuck themselves over and attack us in the process.

[Vom Osten]

I'd rather see Iran with a nuclear warhead, above USA and Israel, any, fucking, day. Not because of their internal policy, but because of their exterior policy. They arnt aggressive. Israel is. USA is. Come back when Iran have invaded nation, occupied them, and killed peps for no apparent reason, than I might change my mind.


Your kidding, right? You believe that Iran is less of an aggressive state than the US and "Israel" (most of Israel's wars were started by its neighbors).

Iran supports Sudan, a state with an ongoing genocide (http://english.farsnews.net/newstext.php?nn=8807131511), Iran supports terrorist groups such as Hamas (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100211788), Hezbollah (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1030525.html), and various insurgency outfits in Iraq (http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=2688501). If Iran truly loved Muslims, and was fighting for their rights, then it wouldn't support repressive regimes and sponsor groups that kill other muslims.Not to mention that its BSing the international community about its "peaceful nuclear program", when all of the evidence points otherwise.

Obtaining a nuclear weapon will only embolden them, and make them invulnerable to invasion as no nation would dare to invade them to risk a nuclear strike.

[1mmortal 1tachi]

I'm surprised no one brought up Iran rigging its elections.

Or, how Iran murdered its own citizens and sent a bill to their surviving families for the bullets used to do it -- to discourage others from protesting.

We have already forgotten. :gun :zaru

[Karsh]

^ I really hope nobody forgot.

And as for Iran not being hostile... :rotfl
Other than the facts already stated, the fact that they refuse any kind of peaceful negotiations and discussions, or when they do, they act like total deuches and preaching death to not only america but the western countries (lol, didn't our friend Ayatollah declare England as it's Number One Enemy this past summer? :zaru)...

yeah they're like an innocent little puppy who is constantly being kicked.

[Degelle]

This is a lame attempt to distract from your failure to find a legitimate reason for Iran's aggression.

If you accept that Iran's religious motives are legitimate, then you also in turn accept that your idea that Israel's creation was religious is also legitimate and in turn now allow Israel to conquer the greater Middle East and destroy the Al Aqsa Mosque. I do not consider Iran's religious reasons legitimate, and am a secular Israeli (Which exists, I'm sorry you don't like it but they simply do).'
Lol, I have no issues with that claim, none of the west did. You're the one bashing the religious strife, yet you have a state that is based on it. Don't you get it? Israel would never have been created without religious scriputre. No matter how ludicrous it may be, this conflict is due to religion.

You're trying to belittle something that Israel owns it's very existence to. You're a laughing stock.


I'm not going to say something just because you ask me to. Though Iran and its proxy's have often expressed anti-semitism I believe their motives to be religiously based rather then racially.
That's what you think, so don't bullshit, you always hide behind the anti-semitic bullcrap as soon as Israel gets criticism, I mean, if you're head of state says it, why wouldnt you? lol.


Iran isn't Arab, and its foreign policy is also at odds with the major Arab powers in the region (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, etc..) and Iran has never cared about the persecution of Arabs or Muslims (see my earlier post on this subject), so this idea that they're coming to the aid of the Arabs is silly. Moreover it's not justified. You can't go and commit aggression against Israel because you don't like what's happening to Arabs.
Ofcourse you can, Israel commits aggression against Palestine because of what's happening to jews. How bias can you be, really?



I've yet to get that legitimate reason for Iran's aggression against Israel.
Given you plenty. Your biased arab hating skull just wont accept it. :zaru

I believe a certain persian king saved the entire jewish race once, have your nation forgot that?


Iran's hostile policy towards Israel doesn't help them with relations, quite the opposite. The primary Arab powers, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, are in open opposition to Iran because of its aggressive policies, Egypt currently has Hezbollah members on trial and Iran's nuclear program has increased tensions with Saudi Arabia to the point where they're massively preparing their military to fight Iran. Saudi Arabia is trying to push Syria into moving out of Iran's sphere of influence and into theirs, which would mean no longer fighting Israel. Yemen is currently in a diplomatic spat with Iran over Hezbollah as well. Iran and Syria are the only countries in the region which still fight Israel, so this idea that they do it to foster relations with Arab countries is ludicrous. You simply are too ignorant on regional politics.
Iran is moving forward in their relationship with USA and their arab neighbours, like Turkey. While Israel is moving away from their relationship with their "allies." You might know more about the current relationship of the state in the middle east. But who was the one that started babling about Iran supporting Saudi arabia a thread or two ago? Now you're claiming they're in military strife?

I doubt Iran will let go of Syria.

Iran is playing Israel for a fool with this Goldstone report. Having Israel to openly deny it, while Hamas openly agrees to do investigations and such.

I'll reply to the rest tomorrow.

I'm surprised no one brought up Iran rigging its elections.

Or, how Iran murdered its own citizens and sent a bill to their surviving families for the bullets used to do it -- to discourage others from protesting.

We have already forgotten. :gun :zaru
...Oh my. Itachi :hurr

[Megaharrison]

'
Lol, I have no issues with that claim, none of the west did. You're the one bashing the religious strife, yet you have a state that is based on it. Don't you get it? Israel would never have been created without religious scriputre. No matter how ludicrous it may be, this conflict is due to religion.

You're trying to belittle something that Israel owns it's very existence to. You're a laughing stock.


You don't have issue with religious justification for warfare? You now support:

1.) Crusades
2.) 9/11
3.) The creation of Israel
4.) Israel expanding further
5.) Israel destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque
6.) Israel wiping out the Palestinians due to its "religious right" to the land

You must support these concepts if you consider Iran's religious motives for fighting Israel to be legitimate. It's one or the other.

That's what you think, so don't bullshit, you always hide behind the anti-semitic bullcrap as soon as Israel gets criticism, I mean, if you're head of state says it, why wouldnt you? lol.

Evidence I think this then.


Ofcourse you can, Israel commits aggression against Palestine because of what's happening to jews. How bias can you be, really?

So now you support the Iraq War. The U.S. had every right to invade Iraq and start a war that killed possibly a million Arabs because it didn't like Saddam's treatment of his own people. Israel now has every right to invade Syria because we don't like Syria's oppressive regime as well.

Given you plenty. Your biased arab hating skull just wont accept it. :zaru

Your reasons are:

1.) It's okay because of religion.
2.) It's okay because Israel is mean to Arabs despite Iran have nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli War.
3.) It's okay because it will make other countries like them.

In the eyes of a civilized human being, this would not be considered legitimate. Moreover, it now lets Israel wipe out the Palestinians and invade Syria. It also allows Israel to invade Iran to foster better times with Yemen. You better rethink these laughable justifications.


Iran is moving forward in their relationship with USA and their arab neighbours, like Turkey. While Israel is moving away from their relationship with their "allies." You might know more about the current relationship of the state in the middle east.

You're saying fighting Israel improves relations with the U.S.? Are you retarded? Evidence of such in any regard. And you didn't repudiate my claims of how it damages their relationship with the leading Arab powers in the region.

Your concept that Iran is fighting Israel as a way to foster better relations with countries that are peace with Israel is simply hilarious. It makes no sense. Fighting Israel is not a position that any countries in the region save Iran and Syria follow, they're not contributing to anything.

And Turkish event is largely very recent and because of that nations downward spiral. Turkey was an enemy of Iran and Syria for decades, and is not indicative that Iran's foreign policy paid off but rather of Turkey's devolution.

Moreover it's not legitimate. Committing aggression on other countries as a means to foster better relations with another is not justifiable. If it was, then Turkey may now invade Armenia to foster better ties with Azerbaijan. Israel may also invade Iran to foster better relations with Morocco. So now degelle supports an Israeli invasion of Iran? More examples of you hating the Iranian people.

I'm still waiting for that legitimate reason. Even if this ridiculous notion of yours were true, it is still not legitimate.


But who was the one that started babling about Iran supporting Saudi arabia a thread or two ago? Now you're claiming they're in military strife?

When did I say Iran was an ally of Saudi Arabia.

In any regard you have now stated that you support 9/11, the Crusades, the destruction of the Al Aqsa Mosque, the genocide of the Palestinians, an Israeli conquest of the Middle East, a Turkish invasion of Armenia, a Canadian invasion of Thailand, and the American War in Iraq . You're a sick human being.

[Shinobi Mugen]

This whole thread and everyone that posted in it deserve a massive facepalm. Why the fuck would you care if Iran has a nuke or not? It's not like they'll ever use it, or as if it's gonna make any kind of impact on your daily lives. This whole issue is nothing but a political cat and mouse game between governments with regional agenda's and all the internet bitching in the world from you brainwashed little people isn't gonna make any kind of diffirence in the matter whatsoever. Talking about this stuff is to discussion what masturbation is to sex. Not that there's anything wrong with masturbation, but pursuing the issue this passionally in public just makes you all look like really sad people...

[Hiiro]

How about we just nuke israel and the entire middle east off the map and call it a done deal? When people base there beliefs off of violence there will never be peace. The jews and the muslims have been fighting since the begining of history, it's not going to stop now, it's not going to stop ever. So the answer will remain the same as it always has been. Kill em' all.

[MunchKing]

This whole thread and everyone that posted in it deserve a massive facepalm. Why the fuck would you care if Iran has a nuke or not? It's not like they'll ever use it, or as if it's gonna make any kind of impact on your daily lives. This whole issue is nothing but a political cat and mouse game between governments with regional agenda's and all the internet bitching in the world from you brainwashed little people isn't gonna make any kind of diffirence in the matter whatsoever. Talking about this stuff is to discussion what masturbation is to sex. Not that there's anything wrong with masturbation, but pursuing the issue this passionally in public just makes you all look like really sad people...

Following your own logic, by posting in this thread, your own message is in any way void of meaning and anything in your post should be viewed as the writings of one that has a weak grasp of reality by thinking that he makes a difference on this forum.

Good luck next time. Nice to have you back.

[Shinobi Mugen]

How about we just nuke israel and the entire middle east off the map and call it a done deal? When people base there beliefs off of violence there will never be peace. The jews and the muslims have been fighting since the begining of history, it's not going to stop now, it's not going to stop ever. So the answer will remain the same as it always has been. Kill em' all.
How about nobody nukes anyone and you have a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP. I believe the lives of millions of people are worth you being a little bit annoyed now and then... :notrust

Following your own logic, by posting in this thread, your own message is in any way void of meaning and anything in your post should be viewed as the writings of one that has a weak grasp of reality by thinking that he makes a difference on this forum.

Good luck next time. Nice to have you back.

Not really, posting in an attempt to change the actions of fellow poster has pretty much got a significantly higher chance of succes than attempting to make a diffirence by posting about the rights and wrongs of trivial international political powerplays...

And thanks, it's good to be back. Jello's just such an uptight little twat for continuing to ban me instead of debating me...

[Hiiro]

How about nobody nukes anyone and you have a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP. I believe the lives of millions of people are worth you being a little bit annoyed now and then... :notrust



Not really, posting in an attempt to change the actions of fellow poster has pretty much got a significantly higher chance of succes than attempting to make a diffirence by posting about the rights and wrongs of trivial international political powerplays...

And thanks, it's good to be back. Jello's just such an uptight little twat for continuing to ban me instead of debating me...

Just because you don't agree with "my beliefs" doesn't make -you- right. So how about you take your own advice and stfu. kthxbai

[Tleilaxu]

This whole thread and everyone that posted in it deserve a massive facepalm. Why the fuck would you care if Iran has a nuke or not?

Because Iran will just give it to one of its terrorist groups it funds, then when they use it Iran can say they did nothing...

[Shinobi Mugen]

Because Iran will just give it to one of its terrorist groups it funds, then when they use it Iran can say they did nothing...

If you seriously believe that, then you have just won TEH NARUTOFAN RETARD AWARD!!! :nuts

[Lezard Valeth]

Because Iran will just give it to one of its terrorist groups it funds, then when they use it Iran can say they did nothing...

Iran never delivered even the lowest type of missile to the Hezbollah, the best they got is katyusha rockets, and you think they'll deliver them nukes?

*INSERT MAJOR FACEPALM*

[dreams lie]

Did you learn anything from Iraq?

If Israel attacks, Iran will counter strike, Iraq will be invaded and happy world_war_III.

Wait, what? :lmao

[Megaharrison]

Iran never delivered even the lowest type of missile to the Hezbollah,

Iranian missiles operated by Hezbollah:

-Raad Anti-Tank (Iranian Copy of Soviet AT-3)
-Towsan Anti-Tank (Iranian Copy of Soviet AT-5)
-Toophan Anti-Tank (Iranian Copy of American TOW)
-Toophan-2 Anti-Tank (Upgraded Toophan)
-AT-14 Anti-Tank
-AT-13 Anti-Tank
-AT-7 Anti-Tank
-AT-5 Anti-Tank
-MILAN Anti-Tank
-Misagh-1 MANPAD Anti-Aircraft (Iranian Copy of Chinese QW-1 Vanguard)
-Misagh-2 MANPAD Anti-Aircraft (Upgraded Misagh-1)
-SA-7 Grail MANPAD Anti-Aircraft (Strela-2)
-SA-14 Gremlin MANPAD Anti-Aircraft (Strela-3)
-C-201 Silkworm Anti-Ship
-Kowsar-2 Anti-Ship (Iranian Copy of Chinese TL-10)
-Kowsar-1 Anti-Ship (Iranian Copy of Chinese C-701)
-Noor Anti-Ship (Iranian Copy of Chinese C-802)
-Fateh-110 Short Range Ballistic Missile (Iranian Copy of Chinese DF-11)

the best they got is katyusha rockets,

Iranian rockets more powerful then a katyusha operated by Hezbollah:

-Oghab 230mm (Iranian Copy of Chinese Type 83)
-Fajr-3 240mm (Iranian Modified Soviet BM-21 Grad)
-Fajr-5 333mm (Iranian Version of Chinese WS-1)
-Shahin-1 333mm
-Shahin-2 333mm
-Zelzal-1 610mm (Iranian Copy of Soviet FROG-7)
-Zelzal-2 610mm

*INSERT MAJOR FACEPALM*

Indeed.

How about we just nuke israel and the entire middle east off the map and call it a done deal? When people base there beliefs off of violence there will never be peace. The jews and the muslims have been fighting since the begining of history, it's not going to stop now, it's not going to stop ever. So the answer will remain the same as it always has been. Kill em' all.

Fine, but don't get angry when Israel nukes you back.

[Tleilaxu]

If you seriously believe that, then you have just won TEH NARUTOFAN RETARD AWARD!!! :nuts

Yeah because Iran is really a peace loving nation that want to give out cookies and rainbows for all :awesome

[Cyrizian]

Because Iran will just give it to one of its terrorist groups it funds, then when they use it Iran can say they did nothing...

I hate to say it, but you are probably right. Israel just caught a whole ship full of weapons headed to Lebanon for the Hezbollah black faces to use.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8341737.stm

That is why my friends and I are trying so hard to overthrow this regime. We need you Americans and Brits to support us diplomatically and (likely) militarily when we do. But most importantly, we need you to get your politicians to STOP SUPPORTING THIS REGIME! Stop making deals with them. This regime's days are numbered anyway.

Khamenei and his thugs must be as isolated as possible. Soon this terrorist state of Iran will die and a new free and secular Iran will be born. And all this tension between Iran and the west will be over. We are taking our country back whether they like it or not.

Damn the Mullahs!

[Cardboard Tube Knight]

And the people do, too?

It'd be fine and well if they just bombed the nuclear facilities and research plants, but anything more than that would involve tons of innocent civilians. Shitsux.

Bombing time, you don't have to go home but you can't stay here.

Here's some simple steps to keep the US and the rest of NATO off your ass. If your country is doing some shit that might get you bombed, either rise up and take that shit over, or get the fuck out of dodge.

IIT: Mugen ignores the truth and shows his on bias. He loves to be on the losing side.

[Degelle]

You don't have issue with religious justification for warfare? You now support:

1.) Crusades
2.) 9/11
3.) The creation of Israel
4.) Israel expanding further
5.) Israel destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque
6.) Israel wiping out the Palestinians due to its "religious right" to the land

You must support these concepts if you consider Iran's religious motives for fighting Israel to be legitimate. It's one or the other.
Do you consider the creation of Israel to be legitimate? Answer that, then we can talk about the rest. :zaru



Evidence I think this then.
It comes of in every entry you make, poor lil MH.


So now you support the Iraq War. The U.S. had every right to invade Iraq and start a war that killed possibly a million Arabs because it didn't like Saddam's treatment of his own people. Israel now has every right to invade Syria because we don't like Syria's oppressive regime as well.
No, that would make you the one that supports the Iraq war. I bet you grimmed like a reaper when you heared how many got butchered.

It's not like US invaded because of how the arabs were treated.

I don't get it, why do you hate arabs so much? Did a WW2 rocket land on your roof or something?


Your reasons are:

1.) It's okay because of religion.
2.) It's okay because Israel is mean to Arabs despite Iran have nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli War.
3.) It's okay because it will make other countries like them.

In the eyes of a civilized human being, this would not be considered legitimate. Moreover, it now lets Israel wipe out the Palestinians and invade Syria. It also allows Israel to invade Iran to foster better times with Yemen. You better rethink these laughable justifications.
GREAT, then GIVE BACK JERUSALEM, or rather, disband Israel. Either you have to accept the historical and religious dilemmas or you're not entitledto Israel.

Your pick, I don't really give a shit whay you think, you're the one with massive double standards here. :zaru



You're saying fighting Israel improves relations with the U.S.? Are you retarded? Evidence of such in any regard. And you didn't repudiate my claims of how it damages their relationship with the leading Arab powers in the region.

Your concept that Iran is fighting Israel as a way to foster better relations with countries that are peace with Israel is simply hilarious. It makes no sense. Fighting Israel is not a position that any countries in the region save Iran and Syria follow, they're not contributing to anything.

And Turkish event is largely very recent and because of that nations downward spiral. Turkey was an enemy of Iran and Syria for decades, and is not indicative that Iran's foreign policy paid off but rather of Turkey's devolution.

Moreover it's not legitimate. Committing aggression on other countries as a means to foster better relations with another is not justifiable. If it was, then Turkey may now invade Armenia to foster better ties with Azerbaijan. Israel may also invade Iran to foster better relations with Morocco. So now degelle supports an Israeli invasion of Iran? More examples of you hating the Iranian people.

I'm still waiting for that legitimate reason. Even if this ridiculous notion of yours were true, it is still not legitimate.
Unable to read, are we? I said Iran improves it's relation with the US, as proof, Iran and USA entered negogitations for the first time in nearly a decade, with Barack Obama changing the policy of no preconditions.

Iran is making Israel look like a crying fool.
[I "Moreover it's not legitimate. Committing aggression on other countries as a means to foster better relations with another is not justifiable."[/I]

Is that so? Wow, you might wanna take that up with USA. Iran does nto commit aggressions towards Israel, not any more than Israel threatens Iran.

Perhaps if Israel stopped threatning everyone as soon as they don't agree with the zionist policy, someone might actually take your nation seriously, not just Mr. Obama.

Israels cuddly relationship with the US isnt helping them with Iran.

Who trained savak, along with the Shah? Israel & the US.

What about Israel support of the Shia muslims?

How come Iran has signed the NTP, but Israel refuses? Despite that Israel have hundred of nukes. <---- A laughing stock.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1061381,00.html

Israeli and American officials have admitted collaborating to deploy US-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads in Israel's fleet of Dolphin-class submarines, giving the Middle East's only nuclear power the ability to strike at any of its Arab neighbours.

The unprecedented disclosure came as Israel announced that states 'harbouring terrorists' are legitimate targets, responding to Syria's declaration of its right to self-defence should Israel bomb its territory again.

Iran has just as much right to attain nuclear warheads, as Israel have. Israel have shown again and again that they're an aggressive nation. Iran, not so much. You might make the claim that they support Hamas and Hezbollah, but by the same logic USA supports Israel. Israel is a terrorist organisatino by DEFINITION.

Israel have commitied similar sinister things like Hamas and Hezbollah, as you can read in the Goldstone report, the only difference is that Israel have kiled 50 times more.

How many more reasons do you need?

We all know what you think, just cry it out, anti-semitism! You'll feel better.

[Megaharrison]

Do you consider the creation of Israel to be legitimate? Answer that, then we can talk about the rest. :zaru

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of Iranian aggression in the least in any way shape or form. I now demand that we discuss if Canadian football is legitimate.



It comes of in every entry you make, poor lil MH.

By all means provide a post then if it's so easy.


No, that would make you the one that supports the Iraq war. I bet you grimmed like a reaper when you heared how many got butchered.

This is your counter to my point? "No u"? My point still stands so I will simply restate it: if Iran has the right to commit aggression against Israel because of the Palestinian problem then the U.S. had the right to invade Iraq because of Saddam's treatment of his own people.

It's not like US invaded because of how the arabs were treated.

It was a major American justification before and after the Invasion.

I don't get it, why do you hate arabs so much?

Evidence I hate Arabs.

Did a WW2 rocket land on your roof or something?

Close to, but no cigar :zaru


GREAT,

So you do support the crusades, 9/11, the destruction of the Al Aqsa Mosque, and an Israeli genocide of the Palestinians? Why does Israel bother you so much if you support these horrific and barbaric events?

then GIVE BACK JERUSALEM, or rather, disband Israel. Either you have to accept the historical and religious dilemmas or you're not entitledto Israel.

Your pick, I don't really give a shit whay you think, you're the one with massive double standards here. :zaru

The status of East Jerusalem is negotiable, though not really possible right now given the state of the PA (and that's a different issue). As for the rest of this lame attempt to change the topic, given your platform (that religion is a justifiable reason to conduct policy), Israel is now completely legitimate. You no longer have a single reason to oppose it, especially given your support of events such as the Crusades.

Thus you must choose right here: is Israel completely justified to do everything it does, or is Iran unjustified to commit aggressive acts against Israel? This isn't about me or what Israel did 60 years ago, this is about your attempt to justify Iranian aggression through religion.

If we are to believe your point here: this entire issue about Israel being "evil" no longer matters. This entire argument ends with Israel being justified to wipe out the Palestinians.


Unable to read, are we? I said Iran improves it's relation with the US, as proof, Iran and USA entered negogitations for the first time in nearly a decade, with Barack Obama changing the policy of no preconditions.

That is unrelated to fighting Israel, something you stated is an attempt to foster better relations with other nations.

Iran is making Israel look like a crying fool.


So foolish that they're the ones with sanctions and inspectors running around their country.

Is that so? Wow, you might wanna take that up with USA.

This doesn't counter my point. What America does (which isn't my problem) does not justify your "point", that committing aggression against others as a means of fostering better relations is legitimate. Try again.

Iran does nto commit aggressions towards Israel, not any more than Israel threatens Iran.

Incorrect. We are not currently massively arming, training,a nd funding individuals and groups that commit or have committed regular attacks on Iranian civilians.

Perhaps if Israel stopped threatning everyone as soon as they don't agree with the zionist policy, someone might actually take your nation seriously, not just Mr. Obama.

Saudi Arabia bitches about us every other day, and we don't consider them a threat or consider attacking them. It's not about agreement, it's about action. I.e., Saudi Arabian weapons aren't falling on our civilians.

Israels cuddly relationship with the US isnt helping them with Iran.

So every country that is allied to the US is an enemy of Iran now? Why is it that Iran isn't arming people to attack Kenyan civilians then?

Who trained savak, along with the Shah? Israel & the US.

Events decades ago does not justify current aggression. If that was so, we may now attack Germany over the Holocaust. Moreover, this would now mean that Iran is also justified to attack American, British, and French civilians. Do you support the attack of American, British, and French civilians now? I mean you do support 9/11, so it wouldn't be very shocking.

What about Israel support of the Shia muslims?

Example and evidence.

Also, Israeli support of Shiite Muslims would be something Iran would be supportive of.

How come Iran has signed the NTP, but Israel refuses? Despite that Israel have hundred of nukes. <---- A laughing stock.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1061381,00.html

What does this "point" have to do with anything (i.e. Iranian aggression is justified against Israel). But oh yes, Iran is abiding by international law so well. That must be why they were hiding nuclear plants and the very topic of this thread is them testing warheads :laugh

Also our Dolphin Class SSk's fire Popeye Turbo cruise missiles, not Harpoon. Bad research there.


Iran has just as much right to attain nuclear warheads, as Israel have.

Then they can leave us alone and not bother us anymore, in which case we'd treat them like we do the Jordanian, Egyptian, or nuclear program. it's not a question of rights for us but rather denying a state we are at war with a weapon.

That is how Iran could end all this: leave us alone. If they don't, then they run the risk of having us strike their nuclear facilities.

Israel have shown again and again that they're an aggressive nation. Iran, not so much.

Yes yes that's very nice, but is Iran still comitting aggressive acts against Israel? You've yet to refute this.

You might make the claim that they support Hamas and Hezbollah, but by the same logic USA supports Israel.

How does this justify Iranian aggression against Israel.

Israel is a terrorist organisatino by DEFINITION

Israel does not base themselves around the purposeful targeting civilians.

Israel have commitied similar sinister things like Hamas and Hezbollah, as you can read in the Goldstone report, the only difference is that Israel have kiled 50 times more.

Evidence of Israel basing itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians. Evidence of Israel firing blindly at purely civilian targets with no military value or military reason. Evidence of Israel sending suicide bombers to specifically target civilians.

How many more reasons do you need?

A legitimate one would be nice.

We all know what you think, just cry it out, anti-semitism! You'll feel better.

What you want me to think and what I think are two entirely different matters. Keep in mind that Degelle-land is the world of Jewish porn conspiracies.

[Xyloxi]

Just because you don't agree with "my beliefs" doesn't make -you- right. So how about you take your own advice and stfu. kthxbai

Café is srs bsns, justify your beliefs or go talk about random crack pairings in the HoU. You just stated that millions of people deserve to be nuked, that's actually disgusting.

[Lezard Valeth]

@Mega Harisson

prove your missile claims with non Israeli sources.

[Megaharrison]

@Mega Harisson

prove your missile claims with non Israeli sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5187974.stm
http://www.missilethreat.com/missilesoftheworld/id.177/missile_detail.asp
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6739175.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5242566.stm
http://www.meib.org/articles/0304_l2.htm
http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw060718_1_n.shtml
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hizballah-rockets.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/zelzal-2.htm
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20060804.aspx
http://defense-update.com/analysis/lebanon_war_4.htm
http://www.bicom.org.uk/bicom_notes/s/1824/hezbollahs-missile-arsenal-and-rocket-threat/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article606179.ece
http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Missile/3367_3397.html

You really should have just let it go to avoid more embarrassment. =/

[Lezard Valeth]

They do seem to have missiles I'll give you that

[Son of Goku]

Evidence of Israel basing itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians. Evidence of Israel firing blindly at purely civilian targets with no military value or military reason. Evidence of Israel sending suicide bombers to specifically target civilians.


How about taking a serious look into the Goldstone Report? Or at least listen to what Goldstone (a self-proclaimed zionist btw) has to say in person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iya6reWxxg0

Also why should Israel want to send suicide bombers? Their choppers, tanks and jets are much more effective don't you think?

[Megaharrison]

How about taking a serious look into the Goldstone Report? Or at least listen to what Goldstone (a self-proclaimed zionist btw) has to say in person:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iya6reWxxg0

So you're saying that we did purposefully target civilians then? Evidence?

And Goldstone's Jewish, not a "zionist", not that it's even relevant to the ridiculous nature of the report. If we wanted to deliberately bomb civilians in Gaza, we wouldn't have killed so few. You can say that 700 is a lot, but given the context of the situation it certainly was not. The UN accusing us of "war crimes" is hardly a suprise or new given their deep history of inherent bias.

Also why should Israel want to send suicide bombers? Their choppers, tanks and jets are much more effective don't you think?

Then why don't one of our choppers fly into downtown Gaza City with the mission to randomly shoot up public buses? This is a substitute for what Hamas did with suicide bombers.

If Israel practiced what Hamas and Hezbollah do, we would have simply carpet bombed Palestinian cities with the expressed intent to kill civilians, as Hamas firing 8,000 rockets at Israeli civilian centers is their best attempt to maximize civilian dead.

[Shinigami Perv]

OMG they tested a design, run for your lives! (9/11 never forget) USA USA USA!

... who cares if they tested a design?! You can probably get designs from any nuclear physicist PhD. Wake me up when they have the materials to make the real thing. :sleepy

[niyesuH]

So you're saying that we did purposefully target civilians then? Evidence?

And Goldstone's Jewish, not a "zionist", not that it's even relevant to the ridiculous nature of the report. If we wanted to deliberately bomb civilians in Gaza, we wouldn't have killed so few. You can say that 700 is a lot, but given the context of the situation it certainly was not. The UN accusing us of "war crimes" is hardly a suprise or new given their deep history of inherent bias.



Then why don't one of our choppers fly into downtown Gaza City with the mission to randomly shoot up public buses? This is a substitute for what Hamas did with suicide bombers.

If Israel practiced what Hamas and Hezbollah do, we would have simply carpet bombed Palestinian cities with the expressed intent to kill civilians, as Hamas firing 8,000 rockets at Israeli civilian centers is their best attempt to maximize civilian dead.

You just name one terrorist and the rest is collateral damage. Or you make them terrorists by depriving them of essential things to live a normal life, like water, infrastructure and jobs.

[Degelle]

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of Iranian aggression in the least in any way shape or form. I now demand that we discuss if Canadian football is legitimate.
Ofcourse it does.

It's the basis of the conflict, the religious strife.

Just answer the question: Do you think that he creation of Israel was legimate?

You really should say, "no", you're an atheist afterall. Seems like you're in a little dilemma here, little MH boy.


By all means provide a post then if it's so easy.


Iran and the rest of the world that dont agree with the zionist movement are nothing but anti-semitic. Iran does not dislike the zionist movement because of how it treats palestine or anyone else, but simply because they're jews.

:zaru



This is your counter to my point? "No u"? My point still stands so I will simply restate it: if Iran has the right to commit aggression against Israel because of the Palestinian problem then the U.S. had the right to invade Iraq because of Saddam's treatment of his own people.

It was a major American justification before and after the Invasion.
hahah, oh please, you don't believe that yourself, right?



So you do support the crusades, 9/11, the destruction of the Al Aqsa Mosque, and an Israeli genocide of the Palestinians? Why does Israel bother you so much if you support these horrific and barbaric events?

The status of East Jerusalem is negotiable, though not really possible right now given the state of the PA (and that's a different issue). As for the rest of this lame attempt to change the topic, given your platform (that religion is a justifiable reason to conduct policy), Israel is now completely legitimate. You no longer have a single reason to oppose it, especially given your support of events such as the Crusades.

Thus you must choose right here: is Israel completely justified to do everything it does, or is Iran unjustified to commit aggressive acts against Israel? This isn't about me or what Israel did 60 years ago, this is about your attempt to justify Iranian aggression through religion.

If we are to believe your point here: this entire issue about Israel being "evil" no longer matters. This entire argument ends with Israel being justified to wipe out the Palestinians.
I think I've told you, liek a thousand times about now, that I have no issue with Israel as a state. I don't even have an issue with the biblical claim.

And really, how hard is it to get? Iran doesnt not commit any more aggression then what Israel commits against Iran, are you really this retarded?

You on the other hand can't accept the religious issue, but you can accept Israel as a state? You're a laughing stock, your hypocrisys is obvious.




That is unrelated to fighting Israel, something you stated is an attempt to foster better relations with other nations.

So foolish that they're the ones with sanctions and inspectors running around their country.

This doesn't counter my point. What America does (which isn't my problem) does not justify your "point", that committing aggression against others as a means of fostering better relations is legitimate. Try again.

Incorrect. We are not currently massively arming, training,a nd funding individuals and groups that commit or have committed regular attacks on Iranian civilians.

Saudi Arabia bitches about us every other day, and we don't consider them a threat or consider attacking them. It's not about agreement, it's about action. I.e., Saudi Arabian weapons aren't falling on our civilians.
American weapons fell on palestinian civilians aswell. Now you support Hamas to occupy USA, cut of their food supply along with the water supply, and killed women and kids? You're so terribly cold. :zaru




So every country that is allied to the US is an enemy of Iran now? Why is it that Iran isn't arming people to attack Kenyan civilians then?

Events decades ago does not justify current aggression. If that was so, we may now attack Germany over the Holocaust.

Interesting that you bring up the Holocaust, since you've been claiming fundings from Germany, along with free military equipment, not to mention that your head of state, keeps the said money to itself, and does not give it to the holocaust survivor.

Utter trash!


Moreover, this would now mean that Iran is also justified to attack American, British, and French civilians. Do you support the attack of American, British, and French civilians now? I mean you do support 9/11, so it wouldn't be very shocking.
Nope, I don't support 9/11, are you really this demented?

The difference between you and me MH, is that you defend the oppression and murder of Palestininas, you view them as inferior to jews, just like many of the rest zionist bullshit artists. I don't defend any oppression, any massacre, any violation of human rights.

You're so dense and narrow minded, that if I say I support Iran over Israel, you have unsightly make the childish claim that I support their other policies.

As I've stated before, you're a snake. A biased snake to top it off. I might aswell be talking to the international laughing stock, Netanyahu.


Example and evidence.

Also, Israeli support of Shiite Muslims would be something Iran would be supportive of.

What does this "point" have to do with anything (i.e. Iranian aggression is justified against Israel). But oh yes, Iran is abiding by international law so well. That must be why they were hiding nuclear plants and the very topic of this thread is them testing warheads :laugh

Also our Dolphin Class SSk's fire Popeye Turbo cruise missiles, not Harpoon. Bad research there.
Was not a point, just to show how full of shit Israel truly is. :zaru



Then they can leave us alone and not bother us anymore, in which case we'd treat them like we do the Jordanian, Egyptian, or nuclear program. it's not a question of rights for us but rather denying a state we are at war with a weapon.
You should leave Iran alone.

I don't think you realize the public view of Israel, I think you're to narrow minded to grasp how the world besides USA view it.


That is how Iran could end all this: leave us alone. If they don't, then they run the risk of having us strike their nuclear facilities.
Nah, just leave them alone.


Yes yes that's very nice, but is Iran still comitting aggressive acts against Israel? You've yet to refute this.
Not any more than Israel.


How does this justify Iranian aggression against Israel.
MH doesnt realize that USA supported a certain Hussein which invaded Iran and murder thousands of civilians, with weapons of massdestruction and chemical warfare.

MH, are you this dense? Please stop saying aggressions. How does anything at all justify USA aggressions against the palestinians?


Israel does not base themselves around the purposeful targeting civilians.

Evidence of Israel basing itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians. Evidence of Israel firing blindly at purely civilian targets with no military value or military reason. Evidence of Israel sending suicide bombers to specifically target civilians.
Sure they do. Do you want to deny that fact that Israel uses human sheilds? I'd like you to see you wiggle your way out of that. That alone brings the entire Jewish state into the terrorist tier.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-human-shields-claim
http://politicaltheatrics.org/2009/10/10/using-human-shields-equates-morality-in-israel/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3650791.stm
http://www.btselem.org/english/human_shields/20060720_human_shields_in_beit_hanun.asp
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13362
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/13/israeli-soldiers-gaza-deaths-allegations
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/19/israeli-troops-gaza-shootings-civilians
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-shoots-down-lebanese-civilian-plane-685852.html
http://www.china.org.cn/international/2009-03/20/content_17474854.htm


Have you no sense of right and wrong? Atleast have the deceny to recognize the inhumane actions of the zionist movement.


A legitimate one would be nice.

What you want me to think and what I think are two entirely different matters. Keep in mind that Degelle-land is the world of Jewish porn conspiracies.
The classic MH, using out of context issue to belittle the arguement, fitting for a snake! :zaru

Did you read the article by the way? Certainly you would embrace a jewish professor!

But I guess MH knows better. :zaru

[Megaharrison]

Ofcourse it does.

It's the basis of the conflict, the religious strife.

In which case Iran is not justified for its aggression against Israel in any way, shape, or form as this is a ridiculous concept to conduct foreign policy with. Now is a nation which bases its foreign policy on religion really legitimate to have nuclear weapons? Moreover, why do you support a depraved theocracy that bases its policies on religion obtaining nuclear weapons? Are you mad?

Just answer the question: Do you think that he creation of Israel was legimate?

You really should say, "no", you're an atheist afterall. Seems like you're in a little dilemma here, little MH boy.

I'm not bailing you out of your humiliation by changing topics :rotfl

No, you'll deal with the hole you've dug yourself in. This is about Iran, its aggression, and its nuclear program.


hahah, oh please, you don't believe that yourself, right?

Listen to Bush every other speech about the war. The Americans used human rights as an excuse to invade Iraq. This is completely justifiable, going by your "logic".



I think I've told you, liek a thousand times about now, that I have no issue with Israel as a state.

I find that hard to believe given your utter obsession with it.

I don't even have an issue with the biblical claim.

Of course not, you support the concepts of religious wars. You also support Israel destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque and wiping out the Palestinians.

And really, how hard is it to get? Iran doesnt not commit any more aggression then what Israel commits against Iran, are you really this retarded?

Incorrect. Israel does not arm, train, lead, and organize groups to go out and attack Iranian civilians.

You on the other hand can't accept the religious issue, but you can accept Israel as a state? You're a laughing stock, your hypocrisys is obvious.

There's a large nationalist movement in Israel that I follow, individuals such as Moshe Dayan reflect my beliefs on the state. Moreover your problem here is that if we accept the religious issue at legitimate then nothing Israel has ever done is wrong in any way. In which case your entire obsession and hatred of the state is now mute.

American weapons fell on palestinian civilians aswell. Now you support Hamas to occupy USA, cut of their food supply along with the water supply, and killed women and kids? You're so terribly cold. :zaru

Hamas is justified to consider the U.S. an enemy because it aids Israel, just like it should consider China, Serbia, South Korea, Britain, France, and Germany enemies as they also arm Israel. However massacring and/or starving their civilians is not a legitimate means of retaliation.


Interesting that you bring up the Holocaust, since you've been claiming fundings from Germany, along with free military equipment, not to mention that your head of state, keeps the said money to itself, and does not give it to the holocaust survivor.

Total red herring so I'll reiterate my point: if Iran can attack Israel for aiding the Shah then Israel can attack Germany for the Holocaust. Do you support this concept.


Nope, I don't support 9/11, are you really this demented?

You support religious warfare. 9/11 was religious warfare.

The difference between you and me MH, is that you defend the oppression and murder of Palestininas, you view them as inferior to jews, just like many of the rest zionist bullshit artists. I don't defend any oppression, any massacre, any violation of human rights.

You do defend oppression. Given your support of religious war, which would allow Israel to not only oppress but annihilate the Palestinians. Moreover you support the Iranian regime and its vicious oppression.

You're so dense and narrow minded, that if I say I support Iran over Israel, you have unsightly make the childish claim that I support their other policies.

Nuclear weapons and their benefits represent the guaranteed existence, stability, and strengthening of the Iranian regime. By supporting their nuclear program you support the regime. It's also perplexing how you can hate Israel and its supposed oppression of the Palestinians (which paradoxically according to you is justified because of the religious issue) and not hate Iran for its own internal oppression.

And why does Iran need deterrence against Israel. Like most of my points you simply ignore it out of desperation, but you must answer this question.

As I've stated before, you're a snake. A biased snake to top it off. I might aswell be talking to the international laughing stock, Netanyahu.

Netenyahu isn't the one getting laughed off stages.


Was not a point, just to show how full of shit Israel truly is. :zaru

So no evidence Israel supporting "Shiite Muslims" and how this somehow harms Iran then.

You should leave Iran alone.

How do we bother Iran before it bothered us.

I don't think you realize the public view of Israel, I think you're to narrow minded to grasp how the world besides USA view it.

Let them hate us, I won't lose any sleep. The only issue I care about is when these idiots start attacking our civilians.


Nah, just leave them alone.

What has Israel done to Iran.

Not any more than Israel.

Incorrect. Israel does not arm, train, lead, and organize groups to go out and attack Iranian civilians.

MH doesnt realize that USA supported a certain Hussein which invaded Iran and murder thousands of civilians, with weapons of massdestruction and chemical warfare.

And we supported Iran against Saddam Hussein! :laugh

MH, are you this dense? Please stop saying aggressions. How does anything at all justify USA aggressions against the palestinians?

How does this justify Iranian aggression against Israel. You can't just switch to a completely different topic (Palestinians) because you can't answer the question.


Sure they do. Do you want to deny that fact that Israel uses human sheilds? I'd like you to see you wiggle your way out of that. That alone brings the entire Jewish state into the terrorist tier.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/23/gaza-human-shields-claim
http://politicaltheatrics.org/2009/10/10/using-human-shields-equates-morality-in-israel/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3650791.stm
http://www.btselem.org/english/human_shields/20060720_human_shields_in_beit_hanun.asp
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13362

This does not indicate Israel purposefully targeting civilians like terrorist groups. If we had a regular policy of "human shields" hundreds if not thousands of Palestinians would be killed in such a way. Yet there isn't 1 single reported death from this. Clearly, it is not IDF policy.

If Israel acted like Hezbollah or Hamas, we would purposefully try to maximize civilian dead and base our entire military strategy around the concept.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/13/israeli-soldiers-gaza-deaths-allegations
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/19/israeli-troops-gaza-shootings-civilians

If we were purposefully targeting civilians like Hamas or Hezbollah far more then 700 would have died. It would have been in the hundreds of thousands. Given the complexities of urban warfare and Hamas tactics these types of incidents are inevitable.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-shoots-down-lebanese-civilian-plane-685852.html

It violated our airspace and failed to respond for 15 minutes, indicating we attempted to stop the plane peacefully for quite some time. An accident that doesn't indicate a deliberate policy to kill civilians.

http://www.china.org.cn/international/2009-03/20/content_17474854.htm

Goes into an accident where Palestinians failed to follow military directions and were accidentally killed as a result. Unfortunate mistake that does not indicate a deliberate attempt to kill civilians as the civilian death toll would have been far larger. If Israel wanted to "kill everyone here" as the article insinuates then the death toll would have been in the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands rather then a few hundred. NATO killed over twice the number of people in Yugoslavia then Israel did in Cast Lead.


Have you no sense of right and wrong? Atleast have the deceny to recognize the inhumane actions of the zionist movement.

According to your logic we are not doing anything wrong. Our religion dictates us the right to wipe out the Palestinians. This is completely justifiable. In fact according to you, Israel is being too soft when it is within its right to get far more brutal.


The classic MH, using out of context issue to belittle the arguement, fitting for a snake! :zaru

This is classic Degelle, whining about Israel for some bizarre reason where she contradicts herself every step of the way in an attempt to distract from the issue: Iran.

Thus I will ask again: I want a legitimate reason why Iran should have its policies against Israel.

[Degelle]

Your attempt to justify the acts of IDF and the zionist movements really irks me. Do you really sleep well at night? I guess, since they are just arabs.

There's really no point in debating with you. Your hypocrisy comes off all the time, you cling on to the fact that Israel claimed the Palestinian land based on religion, yet you cant accept the religious dilemma. How can you be an atheist, which embrace one religious thing, but dismiss the other? Clearly, you're just biased.

The hypocrisy about the nuclear energy, plants and weapons are just as unsightly.

I hope these posters see right through you. You're just another arab hating goon, who thinks Israel is always in the right, and everyone that doesnt agree with the zionist regime are considered anti-semitic.

Your state is a terrorist state, end zionism and you'll get your peace, guaranteed.

In my eyes, you're not better than the scum that denies the holocaust. Perhaps even worse, they can, atleast, be ignorant about it, they did not live during the time it was commited, you on the other have viewed the oppression of the palestinians, yet you defend every single thing IDF has done to them. You're different the jews I know, perhaps because you don't share their religious beliefs. Just take gonen for an example, he has at the very least the deceny to admit when something is wrong, you're a very inferior character, I'm shocked to see so many say nice things about you, how could they possibly respect someone with those views? Just blows my mind.

What can a girl do against such relentless hate?

[Megaharrison]

Your attempt to justify the acts of IDF and the zionist movements really irks me. Do you really sleep well at night? I guess, since they are just arabs.

According to your logic the supposedly brutal "Acts of the IDF and the Zionist movement" are completely justifiable as long as we use religion as justification.

There's really no point in debating with you. Your hypocrisy comes off all the time, you cling on to the fact that Israel claimed the Palestinian land based on religion, yet you cant accept the religious dilemma. How can you be an atheist, which embrace one religious thing, but dismiss the other? Clearly, you're just biased.

I'm an Israeli nationalist in the manner of multiple famous Israeli's. And regardless of what people say justifies my country 60 years ago or not, I do not think religion is a legitimate means to conduct foreign policy in.

The hypocrisy about the nuclear energy, plants and weapons are just as unsightly.

It isn't hypocrisy. We do not oppose Egyptian, Saudi, or Jordanian nuclear programs. Only Iranian. This is because we are war with Iran because Iran commits acts of aggression against us.

I hope these posters see right through you. You're just another arab hating goon, who thinks Israel is always in the right, and everyone that doesnt agree with the zionist regime are considered anti-semitic.

Evidence I hate Arabs then.

Your state is a terrorist state, end zionism and you'll get your peace, guaranteed.

But according to you there is nothing wrong with what Israel does. In fact due to religion, we have a right to wipe the Palestinians out to the last child. With your "logic", just as Iran may commit aggression on Israel because God wills it, Israel may do the same.

In my eyes, you're not better than the scum that denies the holocaust. Perhaps even worse, they can, atleast, be ignorant about it, they did not live during the time it was commited, you on the other have viewed the oppression of the palestinians, yet you defend every single thing IDF has done to them. You're a very inferior character, I'm shocked to see so many say nice things about you, how could they possibly respect someone with those views? Just blows my mind.

It blows my mind that you support religious warfare.


Oh yeah, I'm still waiting on that legitimate reason for Iran to have the policies it does regarding Israel. I'm also still waiting on:

-Why Iran is justified to bother Israel over "human rights" when the U.S. can't do the same in Iraq or Israel couldn't do so with Syria.
-Why Israel can't conduct religiously based warfare (wiping out the Palestinians, creating Greater Israel, Destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque) but Iran can.
-How Iranian policy with Israel helps its relations with Arab states.
-If Iran can commit aggression against Israel due to its support of the Shah why can't Israel attack Germany over the Holocaust.
-How 9/11 with Al Qaeda is different from Iranian foreign policy regarding Israel.
-How Israel bases itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians as its military strategy, like Hezbollah and Hamas
-Evidence of Israel "aiding Shiite Muslims" and how this somehow hurts Iran.
-Why does Iran need deterrence against Israel.
-What has Israel ever done to Iran.
-Others I'm sure I missed.

[Andy Dufresne]

What can a girl do against such relentless hate?

Dress up as a man and join the army. Then fight the system from the inside! Maybe you won't even have to be a man to join your army. It's possible they allow women too! Then when you've accomplished this, arm yourselves with common sense and protest against all this relentless hate.


You have my endorsement!


Then maybe I will crossdress as a woman and we can show people this is the way to go! No jewish problems, no black problems, no women's problems or whatever. Just problems of man.

I won't crossdress though... I might wear a flower in my hair!

Peace!

[Tleilaxu]

What can a girl do against such relentless hate?

Shut the fuck up, get back in the kitchen and start making sandwhiches for you male betters :zaru

[Toby]

We know that Iran has tested warheads before, that's not big news. What matters is when they master making ballistic missiles capable of flying in a predictable pattern without failing spectacularly.

Secret info my ass.

[Degelle]

We know that Iran has tested warheads before, that's not big news. What matters is when they master making ballistic missiles capable of flying in a predictable pattern without failing spectacularly.


...Because Iran would nuke Israel if they got their hands on a ballistic nuclear warhead? Israel have hundred of nuclear warheads. But, instead of admitting it, they hide it and refuse to confirm it, so that they can bitch about Irans nuclear program.

It's amusing to see how people treat Iran as an aggressive nation. Why should the Iranians not be provided the weapons to deter Israeli aggression? they have never attacked anyone or occupied anyone as those who oppose this have regularly proven they do.

Israel has been threatening to attack Iran for years, a reckless move the Israelis are known for that would destabilize the entire region for years.

To date Iran Has not invaded another country in centuries conversely Israel have killed 1088 civilians in Lebanon (2006) and 1400+ people (30% children) in Palestine 2008/2009. Iran is not an aggressive nation, all of the war rhetoric is entirely coming from pro-Israeli pro-war pundits the USA and especially Israel.

[Cardboard Tube Knight]

...Because Iran would nuke Israel if they got their hands on a ballistic nuclear warhead? Israel have hundred of nuclear warheads. But, instead of admitting it, they hide it and refuse to confirm it, so that they can bitch about Irans nuclear program.

It's amusing to see how people treat Iran as an aggressive nation. Why should the Iranians not be provided the weapons to deter Israeli aggression? they have never attacked anyone or occupied anyone as those who oppose this have regularly proven they do.

Israel has been threatening to attack Iran for years, a reckless move the Israelis are known for that would destabilize the entire region for years.

To date Iran Has not invaded another country in centuries conversely Israel have killed 1088 civilians in Lebanon (2006) and 1400+ people (30% children) in Palestine 2008/2009. Iran is not an aggressive nation, all of the war rhetoric is entirely coming from pro-Israeli pro-war pundits the USA and especially Israel.

No Israel doesn't hide their nukes, they've threatened to use them.

[Degelle]

No Israel doesn't hide their nukes, they've threatened to use them.
They've threatend to use nuclear warheads? Wow. Another testimony to their inferior characters.

Israel has never official stated that they possess nukes, nor has it signed NPT. :zaru

[Cardboard Tube Knight]

They've threatend to use nuclear warheads? Wow. Another testimony to their inferior characters.

Israel has never official stated that they possess nukes, nor has it signed NPT. :zaru

Neither have Pakistan and India? Your point being.

[Degelle]

Neither have Pakistan and India? Your point being.
India and Pakistan have both confirmed to have nuclear powers, Israel havnt.

Do you really need me to feed it, why Israel dont confirm it, with a spoon, dear?

[Zabuzalives]

Iran is not an aggressive nation, all of the war rhetoric is entirely coming from pro-Israeli pro-war pundits the USA and especially Israel.

agression is not limited to ""invasions"". Dont be a simpleton.

Iran is basically fighting proxy wars through Hamas. Theres your agression.
It is a theocracy which uses violence and agression against its own population. Theres your agression.
It threathens others and incites hatred for other states, theres your agression.

Clearly they are not conducting open war and agression cause they would get fucking raped. Not because they are such innocent do-gooders.



A nuke is a bad thing in the hand of these fundamentalists due to instability combined with their mindset.
And now safe from most attacks, their negative involvement throughout the region would skyrocket.



So blow their nuclear sites up Israel. You have casus belli already from Iran supporting Hamas anyway.

[Megaharrison]

...Because Iran would nuke Israel if they got their hands on a ballistic nuclear warhead? Israel have hundred of nuclear warheads.

The safety to the regime that nuclear weapons guarantee would allow Iran to conduct its aggression and regional Imperialism (be it in Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Egypt, or Yemen) without fear of greater reprisal. And though the threat of them giving such a weapon to Hezbollah looms due to the underlying insanity of this regime (which bases its policies on religion), the former is the main concern.

Moreover we're at war with Iran (due to Iranian policy), and just as the Allies would have destroyed a German nuclear site in WW2 we shall deny the nation we are at war with such capability.

But, instead of admitting it, they hide it and refuse to confirm it, so that they can bitch about Irans nuclear program.

Israel had a policy of nuclear ambiguity long before Iran was even an aggressive nation to Israel. This does not make sense.

It's amusing to see how people treat Iran as an aggressive nation. Why should the Iranians not be provided the weapons to deter Israeli aggression?

Examples of Israeli aggression against Iran.

they have never attacked anyone or occupied anyone as those who oppose this have regularly proven they do.

Though I imagine the Kurds would disagree about that whole "never occupied" bit, Iran arms, trains, and equips a multiude of groups throughout the region that create violence. It is possible to be aggressive without invading someone directly. This ridiculous and simplistic concept of yours that you need to invade to be aggressive is hilarious ignorant.

Israel has been threatening to attack Iran for years, a reckless move the Israelis are known for that would destabilize the entire region for years.

We threaten Iran because they choose to be our enemy. We never did this until Iran began aggressive acts against Israel. Thus we treat Iran as an enemy state.

To date Iran Has not invaded another country in centuries conversely Israel have killed 1088 civilians in Lebanon (2006) and 1400+ people (30% children) in Palestine 2008/2009. Iran is not an aggressive nation, all of the war rhetoric is entirely coming from pro-Israeli pro-war pundits the USA and especially Israel.

You seem to be completely ignoring the concept of proxy war, a defining trait of the Cold War. However given your woeful lack of knowledge on these topics it may just be genuine ignorance. Would you like me to explain it for you?

Moreover, this is a fallacy. Lebanon and Gaza have nothing to do with Iran (well, at least they shouldn't) or its well being.

Also, I am still waiting on:

-Why Iran is justified to bother Israel over "human rights" when the U.S. can't do the same in Iraq or Israel couldn't do so with Syria.
-Why Israel can't conduct religiously based warfare (wiping out the Palestinians, creating Greater Israel, Destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque) but Iran can.
-How Iranian policy with Israel helps its relations with Arab states.
-If Iran can commit aggression against Israel due to its support of the Shah why can't Israel attack Germany over the Holocaust.
-How 9/11 with Al Qaeda is different from Iranian foreign policy regarding Israel.
-How Israel bases itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians as its military strategy, like Hezbollah and Hamas
-Evidence of Israel "aiding Shiite Muslims" and how this somehow hurts Iran.
-Why does Iran need deterrence against Israel.
-What has Israel ever done to Iran.
-Evidence I hate Arabs.
-Others I'm sure I missed.

[Cardboard Tube Knight]

Also, I am still waiting on:

-Why Iran is justified to bother Israel over "human rights" when the U.S. can't do the same in Iraq or Israel couldn't do so with Syria.
-Why Israel can't conduct religiously based warfare (wiping out the Palestinians, creating Greater Israel, Destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque) but Iran can.
-How Iranian policy with Israel helps its relations with Arab states.
-If Iran can commit aggression against Israel due to its support of the Shah why can't Israel attack Germany over the Holocaust.
-How 9/11 with Al Qaeda is different from Iranian foreign policy regarding Israel.
-How Israel bases itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians as its military strategy, like Hezbollah and Hamas
-Evidence of Israel "aiding Shiite Muslims" and how this somehow hurts Iran.
-Why does Iran need deterrence against Israel.
-What has Israel ever done to Iran.
-Evidence I hate Arabs.
-Others I'm sure I missed.

I wouldn't hold you breath waiting on that.

[Degelle]

I told you I wasnt going to debate with someone that has the morals compareable with Heinrich Himmler, but since I'm bored I'll tag along.

The safety to the regime that nuclear weapons guarantee would allow Iran to conduct its aggression and regional Imperialism (be it in Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Egypt, or Yemen) without fear of greater reprisal. And though the threat of them giving such a weapon to Hezbollah looms due to the underlying insanity of this regime (which bases its policies on religion), the former is the main concern.
Then Israel must be a total batshit crazy state, since their existence is based on religion. :zaru

Israel have nuclear warheads, and because of it can conduct it's aggression. They have the capability to target every single nation in the middle east.

If you don't want Iran to have nukes, give yours up, problem solved.

Or, by giving Iran nuclear capabilities will allow them to have more negotiating power within the eastern region, and be more willing to engage in talks with the unied states AND Israel. Irans current leveraging power in talks is next to nothing given the fact that the U.S has several thousand nukes pointed at the Middle East and thouands more soldiers occupying Irans neighboring countries. Allwing Iran to enrich their uranium will also be a gesture of trust and diplomacy, which, in the long run, can lead to more peacefulnegotiations in times of conflict.

By the way, I might add that I'm not saying taht Iran is making nuclear warheads, or whatever, I'm simply saying that they have just as much of a right to produce it like Israel have. I mean, using nuclear warheads goes against Islamic law and should Iran develop such weapons, let alone intend to use them, its very soveeignty will erode and provide the opposition with an opprtune moment for a major revolution(though you might want to disagree since you think all arabs just hate jews.) Not the mention that Iran has again and again stated that their nuclear plants only amis is nuclear energy.


Moreover we're at war with Iran (due to Iranian policy), and just as the Allies would have destroyed a German nuclear site in WW2 we shall deny the nation we are at war with such capability.
You're at war with Iran? oh my, that was blunt. Becareful what you wish for, it might come true.


Israel had a policy of nuclear ambiguity long before Iran was even an aggressive nation to Israel. This does not make sense.
Iran is not the only state in the middle east. :zaru


Examples of Israeli aggression against Iran.
Years of threats of bombing them might be enough. Not to mention the invations and illegal occupations of Israel, which would make any neighbouring state irk.



Though I imagine the Kurds would disagree about that whole "never occupied" bit, Iran arms, trains, and equips a multiude of groups throughout the region that create violence. It is possible to be aggressive without invading someone directly. This ridiculous and simplistic concept of yours that you need to invade to be aggressive is hilarious ignorant.
In the left hand you have Iran which supplies Hezbollah with weapons and money, in the right you have Israel which ahve invaded to nations and occupied them both, illegally, followed by killing civilians. Didnt recall I ever said you have to invade a nation to be aggressive, but calling Iran for an aggressive nation is laughable, especially coming from Yankees and Israelis. :zaru


We threaten Iran because they choose to be our enemy. We never did this until Iran began aggressive acts against Israel. Thus we treat Iran as an enemy state.

You seem to be completely ignoring the concept of proxy war, a defining trait of the Cold War. However given your woeful lack of knowledge on these topics it may just be genuine ignorance. Would you like me to explain it for you?
Please do, you can also explain USA proxy war against Palestinians. :awesome


Moreover, this is a fallacy. Lebanon and Gaza have nothing to do with Iran (well, at least they shouldn't) or its well being.
USA have nothing to do with Israel either, I wonder why they supply them with billions of cash and weapons, along with a unshakeable dad figure for little Israel.


Also, I am still waiting on:

-Why Iran is justified to bother Israel over "human rights" when the U.S. can't do the same in Iraq or Israel couldn't do so with Syria.
Still hanging on that USA went to war vs Iraq because of human rights? :lmao And you're calling me ignorant.


-Why Israel can't conduct religiously based warfare (wiping out the Palestinians, creating Greater Israel, Destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque) but Iran can.
I didnt know that Judaism asked for religious warfare against Palestine. If you'd know anything about Judaism, you should still be living in dispora, aroudn the world, waiting for the messiah.

Don't you know why the orthodox jews hate you? :zaru

Though, it's not as much of relgious claim as to religious ties with muslims, and mainly jerusalem.


-How Iranian policy with Israel helps its relations with Arab states.
irans hostile policcy toward Israel is a means to an end, it allows Iran to enjoy better relations with the rest of the region, and in return, only loses Iran a strategically unimportant relationship with Israel. Simply put, by being hostile to Israel, buys Iran the support and apathy of most of the Arab regimes in the region, instead of having several hostile relationships with several arab states. It is about trade offs.

Turkey just joined the list. :awesome


-If Iran can commit aggression against Israel due to its support of the Shah why can't Israel attack Germany over the Holocaust.
Never said that, was just making a point that Israel have a history of aggressions.

Though, your other claims of Germany is because of the Holocaust, you yourself probably have no issues with that logic.


-How 9/11 with Al Qaeda is different from Iranian foreign policy regarding Israel.
I don't know, perhaps because Iran doesnt hijack plains and fly into Tel Aviv shopping mals.

Interesting that you brough up al qaeda, you should have no problem with that attack. AL Qaeda, just like Israel, just "defended" itself, right? :zaru


-How Israel bases itself around the purposeful targeting of civilians as its military strategy, like Hezbollah and Hamas
I've giving you like 10 links showing that Israel uses human shields. That you're a snake and defend it, has no relation with me trying to change your mind, a task impossible.

You know that Israel is a terrorist state, just because of that fact, right? None can deny it, it's definition.


-Evidence of Israel "aiding Shiite Muslims" and how this somehow hurts Iran.
-Why does Iran need deterrence against Israel.
Because Israel have time and time again showed the be aggressive towards its neighbours. Israel continued to threat with bombs and attack against Irans nuclear facilities, despite Iran saying that it's only purpose is energy.


-What has Israel ever done to Iran.
Nothing. They just hate Jews.


-Evidence I hate Arabs.
I think the comment about arabs being worth about as much as a dog proves my point.

PS: Did you call the MH goon squad? :lmao

[Tleilaxu]

The amount of fail with the post above mine is to great to comprehend! :awesome

[Megaharrison]

I told you I wasnt going to debate with someone that has the morals compareable with Heinrich Himmler, but since I'm bored I'll tag along.


Then Israel must be a total batshit crazy state, since their existence is based on religion. :zaru

Israel doesn't base foreign policy on religion. If we did, there would be no more Palestinians and no more Al Aqsa Mosque.

However you by your own admittance have stated Iran does base foreign policy on religion.

Moreover "Israel is eebil!!!" doesn't justify Iran having nuclear weapons for the reason I stated.

Israel have nuclear warheads, and because of it can conduct it's aggression. They have the capability to target every single nation in the middle east.

If you don't want Iran to have nukes, give yours up, problem solved.

This doesn't make sense as Israel represents no threat to Iran so Israel's nuclear status shouldn't matter. Unless of course you can give a reason for Israel being Iran's enemy.

Or, by giving Iran nuclear capabilities will allow them to have more negotiating power within the eastern region, and be more willing to engage in talks with the unied states AND Israel. Irans current leveraging power in talks is next to nothing given the fact that the U.S has several thousand nukes pointed at the Middle East and thouands more soldiers occupying Irans neighboring countries. Allwing Iran to enrich their uranium will also be a gesture of trust and diplomacy, which, in the long run, can lead to more peacefulnegotiations in times of conflict.

Nuclear capabilities improve their status? How? It has resulted in sanctions, international crisis', enemy Arab regimes developing their own nuclear programs, and runs the risk of provoking an Israeli status. No trust or strengthening of diplomacy is created.

Moreover there are more efficient and dangerous ways of improving relations with the West. Namely, halting their aggressive and Imperialistic foreign policy.

This concept doesn't make sense.

By the way, I might add that I'm not saying taht Iran is making nuclear warheads, or whatever, I'm simply saying that they have just as much of a right to produce it like Israel have. I mean, using nuclear warheads goes against Islamic law and should Iran develop such weapons, let alone intend to use them, its very soveeignty will erode and provide the opposition with an opprtune moment for a major revolution(though you might want to disagree since you think all arabs just hate jews.) Not the mention that Iran has again and again stated that their nuclear plants only amis is nuclear energy.

If their nuclear program was so "peaceful" I sincerely doubt they would be hiding plants from the world.

In any regard it has nothing to do with "rights". Just as the Allies would destroy a German nuclear plant in WW2 we will do the same for Iran. Iran chooses to be at war with us so we will deny our enemy such capabilities. Israel is not destroying the nuclear programs of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan, this is because they are not committing aggressive acts against us.


You're at war with Iran? oh my, that was blunt. Becareful what you wish for, it might come true.

Correct, we are at war with Iran. War isn't so simple as army A attacking army B.


Iran is not the only state in the middle east. :zaru


Years of threats of bombing them might be enough.

This is because Iran is our enemy. We do not threaten to bomb the nuclear programs of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Jordan. This is because they are not our enemies. Thus this whole concept demonstrates a gross error in logic. If Iran doesn't want to be threatened by Israel they can stop committing aggression against Israel, somethign that is completely possible as Iran has no legitimate reason for doing so and Israel does not threaten it in any way.

Not to mention the invations and illegal occupations of Israel, which would make any neighbouring state irk.

So Israel has done nothing to Iran but this still somehow requires a "deterrence"? What evidence is there that Israel has any designs or even cares about Iran, a nation 1,000 miles away from Israel that has absolutely nothing to do with it? How exactly will Israel "invade Iran"?

As for the "other countries" concept, none of these states commit hostile acts against us and are left alone. Oddly enough the only states that get "irked" by Israel end up provoking or risk provoking Israeli attack (Iran, Syria). Other states in the region have only developed nuclear programs in recent years, when Iran's began to accelerate. They did not develop programs despite 30 years of Israel as a nuclear power.


In the left hand you have Iran which supplies Hezbollah with weapons and money, in the right you have Israel which ahve invaded to nations and occupied them both, illegally, followed by killing civilians. Didnt recall I ever said you have to invade a nation to be aggressive, but calling Iran for an aggressive nation is laughable, especially coming from Yankees and Israelis. :zaru

So Iran needs nuclear weapons to defend against Israel invasion? Do you have any idea how ridiculous this concept is? Why would Israel bother Iran? What has Israel ever done to Iran to indicate this? How would Israel invade Iran?

Iran is the one provoking Israel by arming, training, and leading groups that attack Israel. Iran has no legitimate reason for doing this and it is completely unnecessary.


Please do, you can also explain USA proxy war against Palestinians. :awesome

A proxy war is where you arm, train, lead, and/or organize an allied side to undertake your own foreign policy goal. It allows you to achieve goals without getting your hands dirty or implicated directly. When used aggressively, it is still a form of aggression. The Vietnam War, Vietnamese-Cambodian War, Soviet War in Afghanistan, and 2006 Lebanon War are all examples of proxy wars.

And given how heavily the U.S. supports the Palestinians I doubt a "proxy war" would be the right terminology. They are enemies with the Hamas faction of the Palestinian Civil War however.


USA have nothing to do with Israel either, I wonder why they supply them with billions of cash and weapons, along with a unshakeable dad figure for little Israel.

The U.S. supplies billions in weapons to everyone in the region but regimes which oppose American foreign policy: Iran and Syria. The Arabs operate the same American hardware Israel does, and in many cases more of it. It's just the Americans way of ensuring their interests in the region, but what they want to do with themselves isn't our problem.


Still hanging on that USA went to war vs Iraq because of human rights? :lmao And you're calling me ignorant.

Correct, the U.S. used human rights and liberating the Iraqi people as an excuse for war, however true it may have actually been it was still an excuse.

However we can still use this same "Iran is justified to fight Israel because of the Palestinian problem" concept to justify an Israeli invasion of Syria because of Syrian human rights. Is this justified?


I didnt know that Judaism asked for religious warfare against Palestine. If you'd know anything about Judaism, you should still be living in dispora, aroudn the world, waiting for the messiah.

Don't you know why the orthodox jews hate you? :zaru

There are religious sectors of Israeli society that say God gave us this land, just as the Muslims claim God gave them Jerusalem, and like the Muslims claim we may now fight people for this. We can use this religious justification to ensure that our land is for the Chosen People only, according to you.



irans hostile policcy toward Israel is a means to an end, it allows Iran to enjoy better relations with the rest of the region, and in return, only loses Iran a strategically unimportant relationship with Israel. Simply put, by being hostile to Israel, buys Iran the support and apathy of most of the Arab regimes in the region, instead of having several hostile relationships with several arab states. It is about trade offs.

Turkey just joined the list. :awesome

This is ridiculous. It has done the exact opposite. Let us examine the foreign policy trend in the region:

Nations in the region which leave Israel alone:
-Egypt
-Saudi Arabia
-Jordan
-Yemen
-United Arab Emirates
-Oman
-Kuwait
-Qatar
-Iraq
-Bahrain
-Turkey
-Morocco
-Algeria
-Libya
-Djibouti
-Eritrea
-Cyprus

Nations in the region which do not leave Israel alone:
-Iran
-Syria
-Lebanon

The vast majority of nations in the region have a policy of leaving Israel alone and fighting Israel is a long abandoned goal for them. How exactly is Iran fostering better relations

Moreover you have Iranian policies producing crisis' with other Arab regimes, be it Egypt, Morocco, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia. Thus we see Iranian policies having the exact opposite effect. And Turkey may bitch about Israel but it hasn't even broken ties with the state, nevermind actively fight against it. Moreover Turkey's devolution has little to do with Israel and Erdogan's stupidity has been building up for a while. Iran had its anti-Israel policies for decades before Turkey's devolution while Israel and Turkey were strong allies, the two aren't correlated.

Moreover it's a completely illegitimate reason to commit aggression. According to this concept, Turkey has the right to invade Armenia to improve relations with Azerbaijan. Israel has the right to invade Iran to improve relations with Morocco. So even if this concept that fighting Israel = better relations with Arabs, it is still not a legitimate reason to attack another nation.

Next post.

[Megaharrison]

Never said that, was just making a point that Israel have a history of aggressions.

You used "Israel supported SAVAK" as evidence as to why Iran should have its policies against Israel. If we use this concept an Israeli attack on Germany is also justified.


I don't know, perhaps because Iran doesnt hijack plains and fly into Tel Aviv shopping mals.

Iran supports people who blow themselves up in shopping malls. The only thing different is the scale. A 9/11-like attack would be impossible in Israel given its security anyway. Iran supports religious fundamentalists to attack others in the name of religion and indeed, Iran is conducting its policy because of religion (According to you even).

Interesting that you brough up al qaeda, you should have no problem with that attack. AL Qaeda, just like Israel, just "defended" itself, right? :zaru

Al Qaeda wasn't defending anything (their not a nation but an ideological group that wants to aggressively expand Islam) and their means (targeting civilians) is completely unjustifiable, so no.


I've giving you like 10 links showing that Israel uses human shields. That you're a snake and defend it, has no relation with me trying to change your mind, a task impossible.

It doesn't indicate that Israel purposefully bases itself around the targeting of civilians (the numbers and methods of attack simply do not correlate), nor that Israel even has an actual policy of "human shields". Not a single supposed human shield has been killed, and yet if we had this as a policy thousands of Palestinians would die in such a way.

Hezbollah and Hamas meanwhile base their entire strategy around firing militarily worthless weapons at militarily worthless targets (civilians) with the intent to maximize damage to said worthless targets.


Because Israel have time and time again showed the be aggressive towards its neighbours. Israel continued to threat with bombs and attack against Irans nuclear facilities, despite Iran saying that it's only purpose is energy.

The Hell? How does this indicate that Israel "aids Shiite Muslims which harms Iran"? Do you even know what a Shiite Muslim is?

Anyway, Iran does not need deterrence against Israel. When has Israel ever expressed an unprovoked desire to attack Iran. What has Israel ever done to Iran that would require deterrence in the first place? Why is it Israel doesn't attack or threaten to attack the nuclear programs of other nations in the region?

Nothing. They just hate Jews.

If this is the reason, Iran's policy of aggression against Israel is completely and utterly unjustified the product of racism. This means that Israel is in the right to respond to Iranian aggression while Iran is completely wrong in conducting its Israel policies.


I think the comment about arabs being worth about as much as a dog proves my point.

Provide the quote.

PS: Did you call the MH goon squad? :lmao

You're just butthurt that nobody likes you.

[Son of Goku]

So you're saying that we did purposefully target civilians then? Evidence?

:facepalm

And Goldstone's Jewish, not a "zionist", not that it's even relevant to the ridiculous nature of the report. If we wanted to deliberately bomb civilians in Gaza, we wouldn't have killed so few. You can say that 700 is a lot, but given the context of the situation it certainly was not. The UN accusing us of "war crimes" is hardly a suprise or new given their deep history of inherent bias.

Goldstone is not a zionist? He says it outright and yet you claim he isn't? What exactly gives you the right to deny him his zionism? You really should watch the interview I posted the link of, you don't seem to have a fucking clue about the guy nor what the report says.

And 700? WTF??! Or is that palistian lives only count half?

Oh and what exactly made the UN so biased against Israel? I'm just curious. Is it because everyone who is not born jewish automatically becomes an antisemite?


Then why don't one of our choppers fly into downtown Gaza City with the mission to randomly shoot up public buses? This is a substitute for what Hamas did with suicide bombers.

Why should you? There seems no need for, since you got it pretty much under control. Here and there you "accidently" kill a "few" civilians and garranty an ever fresh supply of new "terrorists" that will make it impossible for you make peace. Why change a working plan and make it even harder for your supporters to stand by you?

If Israel practiced what Hamas and Hezbollah do, we would have simply carpet bombed Palestinian cities with the expressed intent to kill civilians, as Hamas firing 8,000 rockets at Israeli civilian centers is their best attempt to maximize civilian dead.

And how many deaths did those rockets cause, exactly? I'm not justifying any attacks on civilians, but one serious Israeli bomb that hits it's civilan target (read Goldstone) probably equates to several hunderts of thousands of those puny rockets.

If the palistinians had the same military capacity you have, the conflict would long be over. Either you would have killed each other or established a cold war status with either of you "happily" living on their own soil.

[Megaharrison]

:facepalm



Goldstone is not a zionist? He says it outright and yet you claim he isn't? What exactly gives you the right to deny him his zionism? You really should watch the interview I posted the link of, you don't seem to have a fucking clue about the guy nor what the report says.

Where did he say he was a Zionist.

And 700? WTF??! Or is that palistian lives only count half?

According to even the "Human Rights" Groups critical of Israel 700 civilians were killed (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/09/2681353.htm).Thus for a nation which supposedly purposefully targets civilians this figure doesn't seem to add up.

Oh and what exactly made the UN so biased against Israel? I'm just curious. Is it because everyone who is not born jewish automatically becomes an antisemite?

UN bias against Israel is an interesting question. It's mainly because the Islamic and Third World regimes compromise an automatic majority in the General Assembly.

In any regard, evidence for UN bias against Israel:

-In 2006 100% of the U.N. Human Rights Commissions Resolutions were directed against Israel. (http://www.eyeontheun.org/browse-un.asp?y=2006&sa=1&u=345&un_s=0&ul=2&tp=1&tpn=Resolution) This comes despite dozens of more pressing issues worldwide (Darfur most glaringly among them).

-In 2008 Israel was the target of nearly half of all U.N. Resolutions (http://www.eyeontheun.org/browse-un.asp?y=2008&sa=1&u=344&un_s=0&ul=1&tp=1&tpn=Resolution).

-Israel is the only country subject to permanent yearly reviews of its "human rights". (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33608.pdf) Sudan, China, North Korea, Algeria, Syria, Zimbabwe, Iran, Burma, and Saudi Arabia are not given such treatment.

-During the 61st General Assembly Session the U.N. Condemned Israel 22 Times but did not condem Sudan Once. (http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1359197/k.6748/UN_Israel__AntiSemitism.htm)

U.N. Human Rights Council President Doru Costea Acknowledges U.N. bias against Israel. (http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/detail/Human_Rights_Council_president_wants_reform.html?s iteSect=105&sid=8265630&cKey=1191080216000&ty=st)

-The 2008 Condemnation of Israel's Operation in Gaza included nothing about Palestinian rocket attacks on Israeli civilians (http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/0/8FDBF12E3EF5DDC4C12573D9007606C7?opendocument)

-Israel is the only country barred from joining any of the U.N's five regional group (http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1344171&content_id=%7B7D616D09-BAB0-43B1-B5F3-50E485ED2E23%7D&notoc=1)

-Former U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan Acknowledges U.N. bias against Israel. (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cwidqlauojsn/)

-U.N. Official Compares Israeli's to Nazi's. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/972974.html) Objective mediating force much?

-Israel is the only country not allowed on the U.N. Security Council. This violates basic U.N. Resolutions regarding the rights of member states as outlined in Chapter 5 of the U.N. Charter.


Why should you? There seems no need for, since you got it pretty much under control. Here and there you "accidently" kill a "few" civilians and garranty an ever fresh supply of new "terrorists" that will make it impossible for you make peace. Why change a working plan and make it even harder for your supporters to stand by you?

If we want to purposefully attack civilians (like Hezbollah and Hamas), we would be doing that. If we wanted to kill civilians we would not be wasting multi-million dollar precision bombs as part of an elaborate conspiracy to "accidentally" kill some. That is a ridiculous and laughable concept.


And how many deaths did those rockets cause, exactly? I'm not justifying any attacks on civilians, but one serious Israeli bomb that hits it's civilan target (read Goldstone) probably equates to several hunderts of thousands of those puny rockets.

Hezbollah and Hamas were trying the best they could to kill as many civilians as possible, this is indicated by their actions and weapons used. If Israel wanted to do this, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians would have died.

As for the low death count from the rockets, it is a result of the incompetency of these people combined with effective Israeli precautions, but it is the only option these people have to kill Israeli civilians.

If the palistinians had the same military capacity you have, the conflict would long be over. Either you would have killed each other or established a cold war status with either of you "happily" living on their own soil.

The Arabs long had equal if not greater military capability then Israel for quite some time (1948-1980's) and this never was the case. Moreover the only reason a minority of Palestinians (As expressed by the Hamas elections) accept Israel's existence is because they know they can't destroy it. Thus strengthening the Pali's will only lead to more warfare, as the heavy arming of Hamas recently demonstrated.