Umineko Episode 18: III-VII Swindles discussion

[MarthX7]

Eva-Beatrice has Jessica cornered and Beato wants to save her. How can Beato in her weakened state take on Eva-Beatrice?

Preview: 31MAd4ju8uU

Raw:

Sub:

[TadloS]

Oh man, can't wait for this episode. IT SHOULD BE FRICKIN' AWESOME!

[MarthX7]

Expectations are high. DEEN has done a really good job with Banquet so far but this is easily the most anticipated and important episode for it.

[RetroElectro]

Last episode in the subforum. How time flies, eh? At least it got a good run.

[MarthX7]

Last episode in the subforum. How time flies, eh? At least it got a good run.

It's cool how the subforum will end with Banquet ending.

[RetroElectro]

Definitely. Will really send it off with a bang.

[Felix]

Bravo Umineko, you had a great stay as a subforum

Hey Kira, pull some strings and make it permanent until the series finishes airing :awesome

[TadloS]

Hey Kira, pull some strings and make it permanent until the series finishes airing :awesome

Listen to him Kira. :LOS If somebody will bitch that Umineko once again was extended, just play with that person chessboard. Use your red truth to own him. :ho

[JTExecutor]

Did they just compare Lambda to Cirno? Awesomesauce.

[RetroElectro]

So they did. "PERFECT FREEEEEZE!" :lmao

Oh Lambda, you silly little baka.

[MarthX7]

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/433/lodajp.png

[Lord of the Lock]

and she did SUPER PAPER in the preview as well lol

*braces for impact that will be this episode*

*also braces for obvious complaining on other sites on "this scene was shortened/cut/changed/was better in the VN"*

[Nomeru]

So far, any complaints I had about the anime have ended with episode 3, my main complaint was how it didnt really seem to flow properly, but episode 3 has been great. Just shows what more time allows them to do :D, though I am concerned that they might not be giving themselves enough time for episode 4. Assuming this is the last episode of 3, that gives 19-26 for episode 4.... will that be enough? only time will tell.

[Ema Skye]

The super paper part made me laugh in the VN, glad they put it in the preview :lmao

[RetroElectro]

As long as,

the final parts of Alliance are given justice, I don't think I'll complain that much. Such as Ange turning into 'burgers', and the tea party. And I'd like the anime to convey that almost victorious feeling when the George/Jessica/Krauss fights are happening, only for everything to go horribly, horribly wrong. Your emotions totally change in an instant. Oh, and the Kyrie/Jessica phone calls. And Goldsmith's random massacre. Actually, I want a lot of things to be done right. But they're all things which are expected to be done right, I suppose. It'd be awesome if DEEN managed to give Kinzo that look too, without making it into a crazyface. But perhaps that's too much to ask for. :lmao

[Vegitto-kun]

Still no raw? :(

[MarthX7]

It airs in 20 minutes.

[MarthX7]

http://dec.2chan.net/18/res/9491685.htm

About to air.

[Vegitto-kun]

I wish these things could be like TTGL when it aired

MASSIVE TOPICS WITH YELLING AND CAPSLOCK

[Lord of the Lock]

The Heart and endless 9...FUCK YEAH!

[Vegitto-kun]

The Heart and endless 9...FUCK YEAH!

TITS ARE BEING PUNCTURED

wow beato's heart :ho


and here comes OVER 9000 reactions

[Lord of the Lock]

looks like they removed actual reb web though...oh well

almost to golden land scene :hehee

OH SHIT DEM EYES

[Lord of the Lock]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2uokolz.jpg

[Vegitto-kun]

http://dec.2chan.net:81/18/src/1256748622104.jpg

[Lord of the Lock]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2m3fped.jpg

[Vegitto-kun]

http://dec.2chan.net:81/18/src/1256748818668.jpg

[Lord of the Lock]

raw stream: http://himado.in/7325

[TadloS]

So how was the episode? I'm now a bit busy so can't check out now. :(

[Lord of the Lock]

I thought it was epic...but that's me...

they had dread of the grave and happiness of marionette playing :awesome

the only noticeable cuts to me were:
no red web when Evatrice was using red text

the inbetween segment after Beatrice tells the truth about witches and when Battler and Beatrice show up in the Golden Land.

[MarthX7]

I thought it was great. Rushed but very entertaining.

The red web was the most disappointing scene, it doesn't look like much was said.

[RetroElectro]

EVA'S SOULLESS FACE, OH SHI-

WITCHES DON'T REFORM, BATTLEEEEEER.

ANGE LOOKS AWESOME.

EVA LOOKS OOOOOLD.

LOL, BYE ANGE.

ENJOY YOUR DELUSION.

[liborek3]

Epic episode :nuts Best so far

[RetroElectro]

http://i37.tinypic.com/jv3a5k.jpg

And I heard that 'happiness of marionette' played, too. Woo~hoo.

AND OH WOW LOL, ANGE KICKED VIRGILIA IN THE FACE, KNOCKING HER HAT OFF.

:rotfl

[Lord of the Lock]

The red web was the most disappointing scene, it doesn't look like much was said.

EVAtrice was speaking a lot and quite quickly though...I may have to play through that again, but to me the only thing that I noticed not being in that attack of red was EVAtrice going through the list of everyone who was dead

[MarthX7]

EVAtrice was speaking a lot and quite quickly though...I may have to play through that again, but to me the only thing that I noticed not being in that attack of red was EVAtrice going through the list of everyone who was dead

All of the red web truth



After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision.
Battler is neither the culprit or an accomplice.
By this, we can establish a perfect alibi for Eva
There are no more than 18 people on this island
No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game
Kinzo is dead
Krauss is dead
Natsuhi is dead
Hideyoshi is dead
George is dead
Rudolf is dead
Kyrie is dead
Rosa is dead
Maria is dead
Genji is dead
Shannon is dead
Kanon is dead
Gohda is dead
Kumasawa is dead
Nanjo is dead
The 15 people mentioned are dead
Battler is alive
Eva is alive
Jessica is alive
Eva was with you the whole time.
So committing a crime was impossible for her.
Of course, Battler-kun isn't the culprit.
He wasn't forging an alibi for her, and he took the possibility that she was the culprit into account, watching her actions carefully.
No chance existed for her to do anything suspicious!
In short, at the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room
Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder
She was not involved with Nanjo's murder
Her eyes were completely blocked.
It's impossible for her to carry out a murder like that
Neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo, nor were they involved
The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica
Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her
No actions caused by Jessica's body had any relation to or influence on the murder of Nanjo
This also applies to Battler and Eva
neither Jessica nor Battler nor Eva is the culprit who killed Nanjo
Nanjo was killed by another person
Of course, it was with a direct method of murder, not a trap
A weapon was readied, and he was killed with it from point-blank range in front of him!
The culprit appeared openly before Nanjo's eyes, and as they both looked at each other's faces, the culprit killed him
The red only tells the truth
Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board
The one who killed Nanjo was definitely a human
A human, with their feet on the ground, held up a weapon and killed with it!
Right before his eyes!

[Vegitto-kun]

The troll was done perfectly

SIGN

SIGN

[Severnaruto]

OH FUCK SO TEMPTED TO OPEN THOSE SPOILERS ARGH

[RetroElectro]

What red truths were left in, out of curiousity?

/far too impatient

[MarthX7]

Don't know without subs.

There were no red truths before red web though.

[MarthX7]

I just noticed that Ange hits Virgilia too.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4532/angecool.gif

[RetroElectro]

Knocks the hat right off. :lmao

And I might just have to steal that gif.

[Lord of the Lock]

All of the red web truth



After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision.
Battler is neither the culprit or an accomplice.
By this, we can establish a perfect alibi for Eva
There are no more than 18 people on this island
No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game
Kinzo is dead
Krauss is dead
Natsuhi is dead
Hideyoshi is dead
George is dead
Rudolf is dead
Kyrie is dead
Rosa is dead
Maria is dead
Genji is dead
Shannon is dead
Kanon is dead
Gohda is dead
Kumasawa is dead
Nanjo is dead
The 15 people mentioned are dead
Battler is alive
Eva is alive
Jessica is alive
Eva was with you the whole time.
So committing a crime was impossible for her.
Of course, Battler-kun isn't the culprit.
He wasn't forging an alibi for her, and he took the possibility that she was the culprit into account, watching her actions carefully.
No chance existed for her to do anything suspicious!
In short, at the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room
Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder
She was not involved with Nanjo's murder
Her eyes were completely blocked.
It's impossible for her to carry out a murder like that
Neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo, nor were they involved
The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica
Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her
No actions caused by Jessica's body had any relation to or influence on the murder of Nanjo
This also applies to Battler and Eva
neither Jessica nor Battler nor Eva is the culprit who killed Nanjo
Nanjo was killed by another person
Of course, it was with a direct method of murder, not a trap
A weapon was readied, and he was killed with it from point-blank range in front of him!
The culprit appeared openly before Nanjo's eyes, and as they both looked at each other's faces, the culprit killed him
The red only tells the truth
Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board
The one who killed Nanjo was definitely a human
A human, with their feet on the ground, held up a weapon and killed with it!
Right before his eyes!


you have to admit...a lot of that repeats itself.

What red truths were left in, out of curiousity?

/far too impatient

from what I can hear and decipher from the raw:

After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision.
Battler is neither the culprit or an accomplice.
By this, we can establish a perfect alibi for Eva did not kill Nanjo

The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica. At the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room
Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her
This also applies to Battler and Eva

something that sounds along the line of "there is no 19th person and everyone other than eva, battler, and jessica are dead"

Of course, it was with a direct method of murder, not a trap
A weapon was readied, and he was killed with it from point-blank range in front of him!

The red only tells the truth




I just noticed that Ange hits Virgilia too.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4532/angecool.gif


it's the goat's arm.

[MarthX7]

From what I can hear and decipher from the raw:

After Jessica was injured, Eva was always under Battler's supervision.
Battler is neither the culprit or an accomplice.
By this, we can establish a perfect alibi for Eva did not kill Nanjo

The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica. At the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room
Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her
This also applies to Battler and Eva

something that sounds along the line of "there is no 19th person and everyone other than eva, battler, and jessica are dead"

Of course, it was with a direct method of murder, not a trap
A weapon was readied, and he was killed with it from point-blank range in front of him!

The red only tells the truth



If that's right then that's pretty good. As long as there's enough to make people unable to figure out the answer immediately and understand why Battler couldn't figure it out, it works for me.

[MarthX7]

Someone who works for Witch-Hunt posted a list of all the red used in this episode



After Jessica was injured, Eva was under Battler's surveillance constantly. Therefore, Eva has a perfect alibi for Nanjo's murder.
At the time of Nanjo's murder, Battler, Eva, and Jessica were alive.
At the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servant room.
Jessica Ushiromiya did not commit murder!
Eva and Battler weren't involved in Nanjo's murder either!!
No more than 18 people exist on this island!
Nanjo's death was a homicide and the culprit killed from point-blank range in front of him!
Red only tells the truth!

[RetroElectro]

I heard that Ryu supervised this episode, more so than the rest. Of course, this is just hearsay from /a/, so who knows? If this episode was supervised, even more so than the rest of them, then I guess we can assume that the red text given was the only red text really needed.

And, at least the red text about Nanjo was given.

[MarthX7]

I foresee a lot of..

The answer is obvious. Someone was pretending to be dead and killed Nanjo

Followed by a VN reader saying "The anime didn't make it clear but everyone but Jessica, Eva and Battler are dead."

[Nomeru]

can we see a list of red verifying people died? I dont feel like going back and looking. In the vn, I believe.... they decided not to say that Kyrie, Hideyoshi, and Rudolf were dead.

[Lord of the Lock]

can we see a list of red verifying people died? I dont feel like going back and looking. In the vn, I believe.... they decided not to say that Kyrie, Hideyoshi, and Rudolf were dead.

Kinzo is dead
Krauss is dead
Natsuhi is dead
Hideyoshi is dead
George is dead
Rudolf is dead
Kyrie is dead
Rosa is dead
Maria is dead
Genji is dead
Shannon is dead
Kanon is dead
Gohda is dead
Kumasawa is dead
Nanjo is dead
The 15 people mentioned are dead

or would you prefer a screencap...I could probably procure one, but I recall EVAtrice mentioning that, and if she didn't:
Battler would have picked up on it

of course, if one of those people were already dead before the game starts Kinzo then they don't count as one of the 18 and thus EVAtrice is not mentioning a person who would have been alive to kill Nanjo.

oh shi- I fell for Marthx7's prediction...lol

[Nomeru]

Kinzo is dead
Krauss is dead
Natsuhi is dead
Hideyoshi is dead
George is dead
Rudolf is dead
Kyrie is dead
Rosa is dead
Maria is dead
Genji is dead
Shannon is dead
Kanon is dead
Gohda is dead
Kumasawa is dead
Nanjo is dead
The 15 people mentioned are dead

or would you prefer a screencap...I could probably procure one, but I recall EVAtrice mentioning that, and if she didn't:
Battler would have picked up on it

of course, if one of those people were already dead before the game starts Kinzo then they don't count as one of the 18 and thus EVAtrice is not mentioning a person who would have been alive to kill Nanjo.

oh shi- I fell for Marthx7's prediction...lol

I believe I found a hole.
I dont know how it may have happened, but...

Beato was stopped from confirming that Hideyoshi, Kyrie, and Rudolf were dead after they were supposedly killed. Yes, later they were dead, but it leaves the possibility that one or more of them was alive when Nanjo was killed. Now, the question remains how and why, but that's to be figured out later.

[Lord of the Lock]

well yeah, that is the hole in the logic...after we get that other piece of info at the end of ep 4.

EVAtrice says they are dead, but doesn't say that they died instantaneously or when exactly they died...so someone could have faked their death, killed Nanjo and then died shortly afterwards

[Nomeru]

Who was verified to have died when they died? Was anyone? I honestly don't remember. No one was verified from episode 1 as we did not have the red truth. I'm gunna look up a list of red truth used...

Alright, I looked it up.

It was verified around the time that they died that Shannon, Kanon, Kinzo, Gohda, Genji, and Kumasawa were indeed dead. It later verified Rosa and Maria's death in read when they died.

Thus far, that leaves us George, Battler, Jessica, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, Eva, Krauss, and Natsuhi, and Nanjo.

People who died but death was not confirmed at the time: Krauss, Natsuhi, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, George.

This leaves us with Eva, Battler, Jessica, and Nanjo left alive, plus .... someone of those 6. Of those 6, I find George's death the most mysterious. How did he get out of the building? Krauss and Natsuhi were left alone with Eva, while George left and we dont know what he was doing until he was found dead with Shannon.
We know from red that George did not go down the stairs, and that all the windows were locked from the inside after he left. People in the guest house at the time: Eva, Natsuhi, Krauss, Nanjo, George, Battler, Jessica. Battler and Jessica never left their room, and someone else needed to lock a window, so it must have been one of those 4. That is unless One of Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Rudolf were alive and re-entered the guest house, but this is very unlikely.

using spoilers now because this goes beyond what has been shown in 17...
So, we know Nanjo was killed. When he was killed, Jessica, Eva, and Battler were both confirmed to be alive, and confirmed to have not killed Nanjo. This leaves someone who was believed to be dead, but unconfirmed. (George, Natsuhi, Krauss, Hideyoshi, Kyrie, and Rudolf)

Bleh, this is getting too long, I'm gunna stop here.

[Lord of the Lock]

Who was verified to have died when they died? Was anyone? I honestly don't remember. No one was verified from episode 1 as we did not have the red truth. I'm gunna look up a list of red truth used...

from EP3 or EP1?

EP3:
Kinzo, all of the servants, Maria, and Rosa were confirmed dead in red when they were found dead.

*starts suspecting George more and more every time I go over these events

EP1:

Rudolf, Kyrie, Krauss, Rosa, Shanon, and Gohda: Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!
Eva and Hideyoshi: well sort of hard to fake that one lol

Kinzo

Kanon's is the most suspicious death. No one other than Jessica and Nanjo confirmed his death. All the red we get from his is (also, doesn't Jessica have an asthma attack as she's talking about Kanon dying yet I don't recall her actually using her inhaler?):


In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!
Kanon did not commit suicide
Kanon did not die in an accident!

If he didn't die by those means, it means either:
A) he never existed in the first place to die/be killed
B) he was never dead

I think Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are confirmed dead as well. Natsuhi is also confirmed dead.

[Vegitto-kun]

I just noticed that Ange hits Virgilia too.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4532/angecool.gif


I think that the goat infront of her knocked her down

the start of comic relief virgillia

[Felix]

So many spoiler tags
So many posts

No subs :(

[TadloS]

So many spoiler tags
So many posts

No subs :(

Go read VN. :awesome

[RetroElectro]

Yes, later they were dead, but it leaves the possibility that one or more of them was alive when Nanjo was killed. Now, the question remains how and why, but that's to be figured out later.


EVAtrice says they are dead, but doesn't say that they died instantaneously or when exactly they died...so someone could have faked their death, killed Nanjo and then died shortly afterwards

I still like that idea. I think one, or more of them, were in on the whole thing, but someone messed up with the plans somehow. Perhaps the person who shot them wasn't supposed to actually go and shoot them, or something. One of the three wake up in a daze, not quite dead. More like, directly on the verge of death. They amble up the stairs still in that daze, gun in hand. The first person they see is Nanjo (not counting the other two who died next to the person; maybe they didn't even notice that the other two were dead?). Whether Nanjo was in on their plans, or whether the shooter mistook them for someone else, who knows? Either way, the person shot them. Probably still being in that daze, that person went down to the other two, and wanted to find out what was really going on. The shock of seeing the other two dead, and the effort it took to go up and down the stairs might have finally killed them.


Kanon's is the most suspicious death. No one other than Jessica and Nanjo confirmed his death. All the red we get from his is (also, doesn't Jessica have an asthma attack as she's talking about Kanon dying yet I don't recall her actually using her inhaler?):


In short, no kind of human or dead person on the island could have killed Kanon!
Kanon did not commit suicide
Kanon did not die in an accident!

If he didn't die by those means, it means either:
A) he never existed in the first place to die/be killed
B) he was never dead



I'm not fond of the 'Kanon never existing' theory, or the 'Shannon = Kanon' theory which I suppose goes hand in hand with that. I still think that he didn't die at that stage, and faked his death. Nanjo and Jessica were, of course, in on it.

[Lord of the Lock]

^I'm not a fan of that theory either, but it was a possibility based on the semantics of that red text xD...and has battler ever seen the two of them in the same room?


after all, Kanon faking his death makes Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji, and Natsuhi's deaths very easy to explain

[RetroElectro]

^I'm not a fan of that theory either, but it was a possibility based on the semantics of that red text xD...and has battler ever seen the two of them in the same room?


Actually, the first twenty minutes of Chiru are translated on Youtube. And, towards the end of those twenty minutes, Battler does see both Shannon, and Kanon in the same room along with everyone else. In a non-fantasy scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j6MV73FVDg

Around 07:05.

I was hoping it would be disproved sooner or later, since I always thought it really was a silly theory. Even though it had evidence to back it up, I still didn't like it.



after all, Kanon faking his death makes Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji, and Natsuhi's deaths very easy to explain

Definitely. When I think of Legend culprits, I always think of Kanon and the servants, sans Gohda. Maybe Nanjo and Jessica as accomplices, too. If Genji and the rest of them were in on it too, I don't see why he'd kill them though, being honest. Unless they got into some sort of disagreement.

[Nomeru]

I'm still thinking about the fact that Rudolf predicted his death in Legend. Rudolf and Kyrie are up to something. I always liked Kyrie but after episode 4, I became more suspicious of her. I don't know if this is justified or not, but she is a key person in this.... but then LOL who isn't.

[RetroElectro]

I agree with you. There is something about Kyrie, but I just don't know what.

What was really, really odd was Kyrie saying that she sees the Siestas' golden thread, and telling Battler to believe everything he sees. Which was something similar that Genji said to Battler at the end of Turn, about 'seeing' things.

And that was odd about Rudolf, I'll admit. Quite a lot of people say that Eva knew more than what she on in Legend, too. But with Rudolf, he was probably in cahoots with several people, and something took a turn for the worse. Perhaps he refused to do something, or had different ideas about what they were doing. His moral conscience may have kicked in at the last minute, and may have said, "I'm not taking part in this anymore". The people who were previously his allies quickly turned into his enemies.

[Kira Yamato]

[gg]​_Umineko​_no​_Naku​_Koro​_ni​_-​_18​_[83F65B85].mkv (http://t.bt.is-ingenio.us/t/%5Bgg%5D_Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni_-_18_%5B83F65B85%5D.mkv.torrent)||MU (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TGSW7NN6)||Zmg (http://www.zomgupload.com/s3qvfdlxfeoj.html)

[RetroElectro]

Excellent stuff! :wtf

[Lord of the Lock]

About Rudolf in ep 1, he wanted to tell Battler something and then exclaimed how he was probably going to die that night

One could say that Rudolf was going to tell Battler the truth of his birth, that Asumu wasn't his birth mother...and considering what Battler did (disowning the Ushiromiya name/hating Rudolf) when Rudolf went straight to Kyrie after Asumu's death, Rudolf could honestly think that Battler would kill him or at least jokingly think that once he revealed that Asumu wasn't Battler's birth mother.

haha...we should probably move this tangent convo to the SN/VN thread xD

edit: lol at gg subbing engrish "see you again" as "au revoir"

[Severnaruto]

edit: lol at gg subbing engrish "see you again" as "au revoir"

Think they've done it before, just wanting to have something as foreign-sounding to us as engrish would be to the japanese audience, I think.

So epic! I'm so glad that Beato almost pulled it off. I don't think anyone with a set of working balls could resist her when she's all dere-dere.

[RetroElectro]

I heard the Jessica/Kanon fans were raging about this episode, and I can see why. I adore the pairing too, but I knew that their meeting would be cut. That waffle about 'the princess with the golden hair', and 'the cowardly servant boy' I knew would never be left in. I'm glad they left in the, 'call me Jessica' part, though. I liked how sudden Beato's piercing was. YES, AWESOME MUSIC. 'あかいくつ偽' is a God tier song. That truly was an excellent scene. Enthralling, full of suspence right up until Evatrice went to stomp on her heart. Playing 'core' as they went into the meta-world was a nice touch, as was Beato blushing. Oh Evatrice, knocking over poor Ronove's tea. ;_;

Awesome, 'Dread of the grave'. I liked the colouring while Beato was fishing through Hideyoshi's pockets, actually. Very subdued. There was something sinister about the way Virgilia looked when she said she gained a good disciple. Understandable, considering what happens in the next few scenes. Oh, that scene with Beatrice and Battler killed me. It's good to see Battler crying again. Battler_crying_with_hand_in_pocket.jpg also kills me, but in a totally different way, hah. Really nice effect when everyone disintegrated into gold butterflies. No, Battler. Don't cry. Oh, nooooo, the shooting scene I didn't like at all, I have to say. The eyes are too... urgh, just weird. It had an impact in the VN because they were totally blank, and soulless. The shooting sound as we went straight into the music also really helped.

'Happiness of Marionette', at long last! I really like how DEEN spruced it up, and made it sound all orchestrated. Placing Gohda next to some of the goats was hilarious. Lol, DEEN. The, 'sign, sign!' part wasn't as unsettling as it was in the VN, not even their faces helped. I'm glad they weren't just any old crazyfaces though. Their teeth on the other hand, was a whole different level of scary. Yes, Ange! Break through that illusion. The song they played was totally apt, whatever it was. Very eerie. And oddly enough, DEEN did that part way better than it was in the VN. They made Beato's hesitation much more obvious, and you could tell that she really was conflicted. Ange's seyiuu is perfect, I couldn't be happier. She sounds serious when she needs to be, but not overpoweringly so.

Oh Lambda, you lovable little lesbian. Oh my, the year haven't been kind to Eva, have they? :That scene with Ange starting down the building was beautiful, I'm really impressed with that. But I thought she saw Bernkastel after she started falling? Guess I picked that up wrong. Or maybe I just can't really remember. What would have made that scene even more perfect is playing 'active pain', but I guess I'm content either way.

[Felix]

So wait
Let me get this straight

The clues and events that happened in the past can be used as "clues" to the most recent episodes?

I never really understood if the "chessboard" keeps getting reset or not when they redo it all from Day 1

[Lord of the Lock]

So wait
Let me get this straight

The clues and events that happened in the past can be used as "clues" to the most recent episodes?

I never really understood if the "chessboard" keeps getting reset or not when they redo it all from Day 1

eh...it depends on what tips you're talking about.

I'm going to assume you mean red truth. I'm pretty sure red truth is game specific when talking about events during the game (October 4th-midnight October 6th 1986). The stuff I'm mentioning about EP4 is actually Red truth being used by Beatrice as Battler is "revisiting" games and coming up with different arguments.

Anything that happens before the game (anything before October 4th 1986) though cannot be altered so anything stated in red about events before the game can be considered constant throughout each game.

like there was an actual human named Beatrice who lived in a hidden mansion on rokkenjima and died twenty or so years ago


Like, Ange when she is 6, will not appear on the island.

or Kinzo is actually dead at the start of every game because he died before the game started.

or the topic of Battler's birth is questionable once you find out that Asumu wasn't his actual mother.

People believe that the mastermind of the murders is the same in each game and the motive is the same in each game...the accomplices may change though.

[Felix]

eh...it depends on what tips you're talking about.

I'm going to assume you mean red truth. I'm pretty sure red truth is game specific when talking about events during the game (October 4th-midnight October 6th 1986). The stuff I'm mentioning about EP4 is actually Red truth being used by Beatrice as Battler is "revisiting" games and coming up with different arguments.

Anything that happens before the game (anything before October 4th 1986) though cannot be altered so anything stated in red about events before the game can be considered constant throughout each game.

like there was an actual human named Beatrice who lived in a hidden mansion on rokkenjima and died twenty or so years ago


Like, Ange when she is 6, will not appear on the island.

or Kinzo is actually dead at the start of every game because he died before the game started.

or the topic of Battler's birth is questionable once you find out that Asumu wasn't his actual mother.

People believe that the mastermind of the murders is the same in each game and the motive is the same in each game...the accomplices may change though.

Ah I see
So everything is reset, except for facts that happened before the first twilight.

Another question: This episode we saw that Eva was the one who killed everyone. But didn't that go against the Red Truth? Or was that "fake"?

[RetroElectro]

Not just before the first twilight, before anyone even arrives on Rokkenjima for the conference. From the moment anyone goes to Rokkenjima, that's it. New board, the slate is wiped clean.

When it said that Eva was the 'culprit', it didn't mean that she murdered anyone. It could have just meant that she was pulling the strings from behind. Even if she was involved with the murders that way, and didn't actually kill anyone herself, she still could have been a culprit.

Or something.

Also,

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2188/evapsycho.png

COMPARE AND CONTRAST, PEOPLE, COMPARE AND CONTRAST.

[Altron]

This series never ceases to confuse me, so many spoiler tags. :argh Though loved it when Ange popped in. Still can't get used to the Siesta's voices, they just sound to high pitched.

[TadloS]

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2188/evapsycho.png

COMPARE AND CONTRAST, PEOPLE, COMPARE AND CONTRAST.

Compare? Ok. :LOS

VN: Hands screwed up like some sorta mutant. Lol, fingers no comments.... :lmao Winchester looks like some kinda toy. xD
Anime: Yay, for freaky eyes. :awesome Besides, that's actually not contrast. They've just used soft brushes on the main layer(line art) with bright colors. That's all. :P

[JTExecutor]

Liked the VN face a little better. The anime's reminds me too much of Maria's.

[Lord of the Lock]

Another question: This episode we saw that Eva was the one who killed everyone. But didn't that go against the Red Truth? Or was that "fake"?red truth is always true, but it has loopholes (that's the point and what you should really be looking at..."what isn't being said here")

It's never confirmed that Eva is the actual culprit of EP3 (also remember the refusal of saying red text doesn't mean what Battler came up with was right). It's only confirmed that Eva killed Battler, and that can be explained through stress/finally going mental because Hideyoshi and George died.

EP3 may be explained better if Eva wasn't the overall culprit, but did know who the overall culprit was and was possibly working with them, but most likely didn't kill anyone except Battler.

It's also interesting of note that in the game tips for EP3 for Battler's death specifically mentions the sheep and wolf puzzle.


Kyrie becomes really suspicious in this case. We all assume Battler's right with his reasoning as to why Kyrie had Hideyoshi's cigarette when it could have been used to either hide or plant evidence in regards to Hideyoshi.

[Vegitto-kun]

Not just before the first twilight, before anyone even arrives on Rokkenjima for the conference. From the moment anyone goes to Rokkenjima, that's it. New board, the slate is wiped clean.

When it said that Eva was the 'culprit', it didn't mean that she murdered anyone. It could have just meant that she was pulling the strings from behind. Even if she was involved with the murders that way, and didn't actually kill anyone herself, she still could have been a culprit.

Or something.

Also,

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2188/evapsycho.png

COMPARE AND CONTRAST, PEOPLE, COMPARE AND CONTRAST.

Didn't the sound novel and manga have the same style of eyes?

[Ange-Beatrice]

Loved this epi! I Love Siestas and Ange!!!!!

[Kira Yamato]

Pretty entertaining episode and it seemed they did a decent job with the expressions (Eva when she killed Battler and of course Beato and Virgilia after that epic troll). But as usual they packed quite a bit of material in one episode so the pacing felt a bit awkward, especially when we got to Ange.

[MarthX7]

Episode 19 preview

YlTIOWpI5ys

[RetroElectro]

Finally, they show the Stakes messing around with Battler. Awww, Maria looks adorable. Ouch at Eva's facepalm. Awesome car jump, and even more awesome, Amakusa. I don't like Sakutarou's colouring at all. And I don't suppose either of their seiyuus have been announced yet? Along with Kasumi.

But I'm guessing that Sakutarou will be voiced by Horie Yui. It'd make sense.

[Ema Skye]

That's good that they left the scene with Beezlebub and Battler with the croissants hopefully they leave the scene with Beatrice's "grand appearance" :<3

[Ange-Beatrice]

I have a question does this mean that Virgilia is evil. So all that happend in EPI3 was a fake to trick battler?

[Kira Yamato]

I have a question does this mean that Virgilia is evil. So all that happend in EPI3 was a fake to trick battler?

Hmmh...evil? I still think of it from a perspective of a game and she was assisting her pupil.

And yes, she was in on the ploy the whole time.

[Ange-Beatrice]

so in EPI4 she is on Beatos side?

[Kira Yamato]

so in EPI4 she is on Beatos side?

No, she's still on Beato's side in episode 4....although, she works under a new Master :hehee Goldsmith (aka Kinzo the Mage)

[Ange-Beatrice]

Uuuuuuu! Know i get it!

[TadloS]

Since main thread is locked, I'm going to post here. Don't want to make new thread. :P

Umineko Blu-ray is finally out on Tokyo Toshokan tracker and it seems some sorta special included. Raw [URaws] SPECIAL TALK in ROKKENJIMA RAW (DVD 720x480[16：9] x264 AAC).mp4

I wonder what's this special talk? :hmm Going to check it out. :LOS

[Ange-Beatrice]

Um actually the main thread is open. But sounnds interesting Special Talk in Rokkenjima.

[TadloS]

Oh, so it's opened again? Didn't noticed. :lmao

[Lord of the Lock]

Raw [URaws] SPECIAL TALK in ROKKENJIMA RAW (DVD 720x480[16：9] x264 AAC).mp4

for anyone curious, this appears to be the Seiyuu for Battler and Jessica interviewing Ryukishi07

can't figure out a lick they're saying though...I'd be rather curious on what they're asking him.

[MaskedMenace]

Have to admit Beatrice did not disappoint me this time. She tricked Battler big time.(me too since I thought she went soft :P)

I was wondering if Virgilia is a piece in the game that can be used by both sides. The impression I get is that Virgilia is on both sides or am I wrong?

Also I may sound like a noob but who is Ryukishi07? The maker of Umineko or the company?


Oh Lambda, you lovable little lesbian.

:wha where has that been stated?

[Lord of the Lock]

I was wondering if Virgilia is a piece in the game that can be used by both sides. The impression I get is that Virgilia is on both sides or am I wrong?more like:
Her and Ronove were brought in by Beatrice to "help" Battler considering how much he blew it in EP2

so Virgilia is a piece for Beatrice in order to help Battler...if that makes any sense

Beatrice's play style is all over the place

who is Ryukishi07?The Author/creator of the When They Cry series (Higurashi and Uminkeo). It's a pen name of course.

:wha where has that been stated?depends on how you interpret her "love" for Bernkastel and a certain "petting" scene later lol

[skiboydoggy]

Wait, so if Nanjo was killed point blank etcetcetc, wouldn't that imply the usage of human weapons by human hands? And it also implies a one man job at that. For all of EvaBeatrice's posturing, she practically went ahead and said that Nanjo was killed mundanely and not magically?

[Ange-Beatrice]

Well but she did say she did it. Wich even if Nanjo wasnt killed magically hes death proved the existence of the witch. There are only 18 people on Rokkenjima. Jessica wasnt the killer,neither was Eva or Battler.

[Lord of the Lock]

Wait, so if Nanjo was killed point blank etcetcetc, wouldn't that imply the usage of human weapons by human hands? And it also implies a one man job at that. For all of EvaBeatrice's posturing, she practically went ahead and said that Nanjo was killed mundanely and not magically?

Usage of human weapons =/= a witch didn't do it. For instance, look at how EVAtrice killed Hideyoshi.

All she said was "Nanjo's death was a homicide and the culprit killed from point-blank range in front of him!"

needless to say you can't make inferences to prove one way or the other.
"well then a human killed him with a human weapon"
"no, I, a witch, killed him with magic even if that magic may have meant using a human weapon (floating gun, etc)"

Point blank range just means that Nanjo and only Nanjo saw his murderer.

Battler will argue a human did it, but he'll have to find a way to explain how that was possible after being told in red that everyone other than Nanjo, Jessica, Eva, and himself are dead...that he was Eva the whole time and since he isn't a murderer or an accomplice, he can vouch for Eva and that Jessica was incapable of murdering anyone in her blind state thus she is not a murderer either.

Beatrice doesn't need to explain anything other than "Battler can't explain it through human means, thus I, a witch, did it."

Well but she did say she did it. Wich even if Nanjo wasnt killed magically hes death proved the existence of the witch. There are only 18 people on Rokkenjima. Jessica wasnt the killer,neither was Eva or Battler.

She only made an argument that she could exist...she didn't prove it. There are a few loopholes that could be made out of her red to argue that she doesn't exist and still explain Nanjo's death by another person.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

:lmao Silly me for thinking "this must be the last episode....she's going to die"

[Nomeru]

Well but she did say she did it. Wich even if Nanjo wasnt killed magically hes death proved the existence of the witch. There are only 18 people on Rokkenjima. Jessica wasnt the killer,neither was Eva or Battler.

Actually, there could potentially be 6 human suspects outside of Jessica, Battler, and Eva, which are the only ones confirmed to be alive. After Nanjo died, along with the other read, EVAtrice declaired in red everyone else to be dead... this means, Everyone but Jessica, Eva, and Battler. However, this is a little time after Nanjo's death, and does not tell us who was dead when Nanjo died.

Those who were declared dead when after being discovered:

Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Gohda, Kumasawa, Kinzo, confirmed dead after before the second twilight

Rosa, Maria, confirmed dead before the fourth twilight.


Those who were not declared dead until x time after Nanjo's death:

Kyrie, Rudolf, Hideyoshi (4th, 5th, 6th twilight.. I believe)
Krauss, Natsuhi (7th, 8th twilight)
George (9th twilight) (I don't know who was what twilight, but it's not important)

As you can see, we have a total of 6 potential suspects that could have killed Nanjo. How, why, and how they died after? I dont know.

[Lord of the Lock]

not to mention that some unknown person X could have come on the island after the first twilight, hid out in the hidden mansion until the end, and still fulfill "no more than 18 people exist on this island"...after all...corpses no longer exist.