Problems with One Piece

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Ok, well I have just finished reading OP and I am now on the CP9 in the anime. While I thought OP was a silly manga with terribly drawn characters, I decided to give it a chance after a friend of mine requested that I read it. While I still think its pretty silly (a Giraffe??? Laundry powers??? Superhuman transvestites??), and I think the art outside of the fight scenes is terrible, I also think the story is top notch, the characterization is really good, and the world is very well developed. That being said, I think there are serious problems that most OP fanboys chose to ignore when they put together their "OMGZ Oda is Teh G0dz0rz" and "OP>>>>>>Naruto" threads. I am not here to change anybodies mind, or flame or downgrade the manga in any way; I just think these things are overlooked when having a decent discussion about OP in relation to other mangas.



Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.


Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

Note: We are not even going to bring up Haki in relation to this...


Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)


Like I said, these are just things I see that are wrong with OP. I don't think its terrible, or that it is a bad manga; I just think people don't see the forest for the trees when they praise Oda thru the moon.


:zaru


JihaD

[Mider T]

One Piece has many problems that fans just aren't willing to admit to anyone nor themselves.

[BlackSmoke]

Ouch, only one comment. Nice read +rep ^ ^

[XMURADX]

Cool story bro

[Remyx]

Thank you for posting this. :iria

I don't think any topic like this has ever been posted in the One Piece section. :awesome

[newbieFans]

good post :)
every manga have minus points.
it shows that one piece is not your taste...that's all

[SageMaster]

You have some good points Jihad Uzumaki and agree with you on some, because OP obviously isn't flawless. However, some of your points are a matter of opinion.


Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.

While no one dying can sometimes be a little annoying or illogical (Pell, Conis' Father), I actually like how Oda keeps his characters alive because then fans can hope to see their favorite characters again. For example, I'm a huge Croc fan and I'm happy Oda didn't kill him at Arabasta because now he's back in the manga and still pimpin'. :pimp


Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
-Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

Actually, none of that has happenned since the end of the Thriller Bark saga. Also, all series follow a similar pattern in their story arcs.

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)

I like seeing Oda introducing more groups because I love how detailed and huge the OPverse is. It really feels that the entire universe DOESN'T revolve around the Straw Hats unlike other series and you really see how they make an impact in their world. Also, Luffy doesn't care if he does something that has nothing to do at all about becoming the PK. Luffy's main motivation for becoming the PK is because he wants to have the greatest adventure of all. :gar

[Shadow Replication 1480]

Meh, the "exact same story/plot" bit has no legs when a majority of the arcs don't really follow that outline at all.

[ObscureCosmos]

Ok, here goes senile ol' Obs.

The points you made are great.
Since you are not crazy about One Piece, you are able to see things that others can not.. >_>

[However].

I'm not very good at convos, or contradicting people, but.. I have to say this.

People in OP have died.. It's just never actually confirmed.

Luffy 'accidently' learned Gear second during the 7th movie.
Kabuto is obviously something Usopp was planning to use. However, it's not like Oda would show us in the manga or anime about it.. Sogeking was initially supposed to be a 'new character', that was definitely not Usopp, so it's alright to assume that 'Sogeking' had a different weapon.
As for Sanji.. I admit that it was strange that he pulled out Diable Jamble out of nowhere, but at the same time, being an OP fan, I don't question it. (I just go with it).
Hm. Chopper, Nami, and Usopp have NEVER stopped being afraid of most things.. So you can't say they were failure and then epic and then ask why they're failure again. The very fact that they managed to be epic is a great feat.
Rumble ball is not useless, it's just not used as much.. Plus, the enemies are getting tougher and tougher to fight against, so the Straw Hats can't use the same methods all the time...

Merry's a different deal.
It seemed off how Oda made the whole spirited-sailor thing being inside Merry because the Straw Hats loved him so much.. But hey.. If Sky island was real, why the hell not? Merry was just a different ship from any other.
What's wrong with Nightmare Luffy? ..He was fighting against Moria.. A creepster. So he used a new power for just that one arc. Not like it's a power up. I think that was a once-in-a-life-time deal.. Considering the situation.

When it comes to new islands, new adventures await there.
That including villains.. And defeating them of course.
New bad guys are introduced in Naruto as the story goes on..
Naruto (in the end) always defeats the baddest bad guy, so he's not too different from Luffy.

Too many groups.. Yeeah, you're right.
But they don't follow along with the Straw Hats in every episode, so it's not like we see them all the time. ..Right now, there's a war going on.. I'm not surprised If I see everyone in the world.

To end this, I'll say that One Piece is not a predictable anime.
It has a lot of ''wtf'' moments, but that's One Piece.
In Naruto, they try and show you every single detail, which makes the anime predictable, and sometimes boring.

But I admit.. It's equal in awesomeness.

[Nuzzie]

Luffy 'accidently' learned Gear second during the 7th movie.


Why the fuck do people bring this up?

IT IS NOT CANON

IT NEVER WILL BE

STOP TREATING IT LIKE IT IS

[ObscureCosmos]

Why is it not canon?

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Meh, the "exact same story/plot" bit has no legs when a majority of the arcs don't really follow that outline at all.

Are you being serious? The only arc that hasn't is the current arc that is taking place. From the Saebondy (sp) Archipelago to EVERY previous Arc, that very formula (or some similar derivative) has taken place. To say otherwise is straight denial.

Also, this is not a Naruto V One Piece argument. I am strictly speaking about my issues with OP, not comparing it to any other manga.

@Obscure Cosmos-

Sogeking was on the Puffing Tom the ENTIRE time and was shown USING Pachinko... Where exactly did he find time to upgrade it and have it ready, when we (as the reader) witnessed his EVERY action?

-Nightmare Luffy is a joke because if these pirates were hiding on the island and capable of putting shadows in LIVING beings, why didn't they do this to themselves, or Brooke for that matter? It would have made more sense then living in the forest for decades... Stylistically, I have no problem with NML... I just the Deus Ex Machina behind it.

The whole Going Merry thing was pretty ridiculous...

@ sagemaster

The dying thing bothers me because after watching Pell, who was supposed to be doing this heroic act to"protect" Arabasta, survive a massive explosion and fall from the sky survive... IT just reeked of pandering, and it devalues the meaning of life and death imo. Even people like Igaram being blown up to protect Vivi is supposed to be a big deal, but him simply walking back to Arabasta was just...

When you are conditioned and trained that no one is going to die, it gives no real meaning to the fights. and for the record, I guess I should have said no one IMPORTANT OR RECENT dies... Flashback characters and fodder die all the time.

:zaru


JihaD

[The Doctor]

luffy only got 3 power ups: gear 2, 3 and nightmare mode. if you consider things like gomu gomu no hanabi a power up that's a total misconception.

don't simplify stuffs to make your arguments valid. arcs ain't formulaic. if i were to simplify things, i could find a recurrent point in every sort of literature.

saying that you don't like the style is fine and all but saying the art is terribly drawn is retarded

your argument about groups is funny

[Nuzzie]

-Nightmare Luffy is a joke because if these pirates were hiding on the island and capable of putting shadows in LIVING beings, why didn't they do this to themselves, or Brooke for that matter? It would have made more sense then living in the forest for decades... Stylistically, I have no problem with NML... I just the Deus Ex Machina behind it.

Uh, they did. They could only handle 2 or 3 shadows though.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/476/06/

[SageMaster]

The ''arcs follow the same plot'' argument is ridiculous because there will ALWAYS be similarities in any series of books, movies, comics, tv shows, etc.

[Muah]

Full of shit!!

Same plot my ass. You should just kill yourself with fire. I don't see whats wrong with an Okama being powerfull or a ship finding its way to its nakama when its obviously possesed. Only thing wrong with One Piece is that the verse is to big and theres not enuf time to explore it all unless Oda can pull off some magic!!

[Firefist]

nice post OP*reps*

Of course every manga has its flaws. It just depends how important these flaws are for you. I also have some problems with OP, but who doesn't?
Some people prefer deads in story, some not.
Some people like training panels or arcs, some not.
Everbody has a kind of different image and vision of a manga.
You shouldnt take manga as serious as a tard. Most people just cant enjoy the manga alone, no, they have to tell everyone that "his manga > their manga".

[Lance Vance]

So true. It's not as good as the majority of the OP section makes it out to be IMO.

Why is it not canon?

It's a movie. It wasn't in the manga.

Why the fuck do people bring this up?

IT IS NOT CANON

IT NEVER WILL BE

STOP TREATING IT LIKE IT IS


Full of shit!!

Same plot my ass. You should just kill yourself with fire. I don't see whats wrong with an Okama being powerfull or a ship finding its way to its nakama when its obviously possesed. Only thing wrong with One Piece is that the verse is to big and theres not enuf time to explore it all unless Oda can pull off some magic!!

lol.

[Muah]

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)


Like I said, these are just things I see that are wrong with OP. I don't think its terrible, or that it is a bad manga; I just think people don't see the forest for the trees when they praise Oda thru the moon.




So now your mad that oda is using plot. Maybe Luffy should just land at every island eat and go to the next one never getting into any fights and have a ton of dialouge that no one cares about any more. It's an adventure manga and it won't be dragged out till someone actually gets tired of it.

May I also address you saying that the strawhats get random powerups? First off I need to know where are you getting your complaints. Do you read forums and copy down complaints. Even though you suggest that fighting at every arc doesn't really contribute to the story you never stop to think it would make them stronger. I find that much better than training for a day or a couple of weeks and jumping up 2 or three levels which isn't really realistic.

[Lance Vance]

One Piece isn't realistic.

[Muah]

I think this type of trolling has gotten old.

All your points op were boring as shit and made no sense if you really did watch One Piece, which I doubt you really did.

[Firefist]

there is no trolling...

[Rondainme]

One Piece's villains are boring, they all have logical and coherent objectives (becoming the Pirate King). I would really want to see a villain with complex and absurd plans that has a great team which he sacrifices just for the lulz since he is the strongest of them all and could do all those objectives on his own in a matter of seconds. Aizen and Madara >>>> Any OP villain

:nod

That was sarcasm BTW

[Muah]

One Piece's villains are boring, they all have logical and coherent objectives (becoming the Pirate King). I would really want to see a villain with complex and absurd plans that has a great team which he sacrifices just for the lulz since he is the strongest of them all and could do all those objectives on his own in a matter of seconds. Aizen and Madara >>>> Any OP villain

:nod

That was sarcasm BTW

Actually Oda was disbuting on wether he should have Buggy unlock the final boss from the moon to ravish WB and his crew.

[ObscureCosmos]

nice post OP*reps*

Of course every manga has its flaws. It just depends how important these flaws are for you. I also have some problems with OP, but who doesn't?
Some people prefer deads in story, some not.
Some people like training panels or arcs, some not.
Everbody has a kind of different image and vision of a manga.
You shouldnt take manga as serious as a tard. Most people just cant enjoy the manga alone, no, they have to tell everyone that "his manga > their manga".

Thanks.
Your name is win. :laugh *Reps up*

I also liked your post.. It makes sense.
If you find too many flaws in an anime/manga (some which don't even make sense) then that anime/manga is not for you.

And let me tell ya..
By the looks of his/her reply to me, Jihad is not stating flaws, he/she is bashing One Piece.. :gun Betch gotta die.

It's a movie. It wasn't in the manga.

Even if it's not canon, it's a small way to explain Gear second. :notrust So it shouldn't exactly be a ''Wtf moment''.. <.<'

.. @ Jihad Uzumaki: Ok, did you not see me say that Oda doesn't show us everything?.. Hell, you even said it yourself in your OP.
Of course it would be a surprise that Usopp finally showed us a new weapon.
And Sogeking, (we know all know that was Usopp, we're not as dumb as Luffy) was SUPPOSED TO BE A NEW CHARACTER, WHO THE HELL CARES WHERE HE GOT HIS DAMN WEAPON FROM?! :C Not like we saw Sogeking join the Straw Hats from the beginning. Call it a ''Wtf moment'' if you want.. It's One Piece. Just stfu. Because you're not a fan, you woulnd't understand.. Because you watch Naruto, you're used to seeing everything in detail, so it's hard to take in something as random as One Piece. That's the real problem here.

..Now, Nightmare Luffy.

NL is not a joke. It was one of the most epic moments in One Piece (imo).
And you say the rest of the pirates could have used the shadows on themselves.. Yeah, not like they didn't try. :notrust ..

Merry? Ridiculous? One Piece? x.x

Yeah.. Just as ridiculous as Naruto learning how to summon giant frogs..
Wait, Naruto summoning frogs is normal in the Naruto world, right?

Great. Not ridiculous at all.

[Muah]

And then use that frog to beat a bijuu. Like I said call One Piece silly if you want but b4 you bash it actually watch the series. One Piece is way more serious than any manga I've read it's just funny.

[helihound]

I think this type of trolling has gotten old.

All your points op were boring as shit and made no sense if you really did watch One Piece, which I doubt you really did.

Thanks.
Your name is win. :laugh *Reps up*

I also liked your post.. It makes sense.
If you find too many flaws in an anime/manga (some which don't even make sense) then that anime/manga is not for you.

And let me tell ya..
By the looks of his/her reply to me, Jihad is not stating flaws, he/she is bashing One Piece.. :gun Betch gotta die.


Even if it's not canon, it's a small way to explain Gear second. :notrust So it shouldn't exactly be a ''Wtf moment''.. <.<'

.. @ Jihad Uzumaki: Ok, did you not see me say that Oda doesn't show us everything?.. Hell, you even said it yourself in your OP.
Of course it would be a surprise that Usopp finally showed us a new weapon.
And Sogeking, (we know all know that was Usopp, we're not as dumb as Luffy) was SUPPOSED TO BE A NEW CHARACTER, WHO THE HELL CARES WHERE HE GOT HIS DAMN WEAPON FROM?! :C Not like we saw Sogeking join the Straw Hats from the beginning. Call it a ''Wtf moment'' if you want.. It's One Piece. Just stfu. Because you're not a fan, you woulnd't understand.. Because you watch Naruto, you're used to seeing everything in detail, so it's hard to take in something as random as One Piece. That's the real problem here.

..Now, Nightmare Luffy.

NL is not a joke. It was one of the most epic moments in One Piece (imo).
And you say the rest of the pirates could have used the shadows on themselves.. Yeah, not like they didn't try. :notrust ..

Merry? Ridiculous? One Piece? x.x

Yeah.. Just as ridiculous as Naruto learning how to summon giant frogs..
Wait, Naruto summoning frogs is normal in the Naruto world, right?

Great. Not ridiculous at all.

I agree with firefist also but you have to see that the OP viewed what was stated as flaws while you did not just a difference of opinion does not mean it was bashing.

There is no trolling.... just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make it a troll, just read your post at top and its clearly stated that the OP read one piece people have different views and like different things learn to accept this please.

I found nightmare luffy a joke but that is just me and neither naruto or one piece worlds are realistic i mean the ninjas in naruto are wizards if anything lol but what i do find realistic in naruto is the philosophical aspects which is not found in one piece.

[abcd]

Though ur post is prett straight forward and inline with ur opinions it does have some flaws when it becomes a genral opinion ... So I will point out my opinions in reklation to urs.

Ok, well I have just finished reading OP and I am now on the CP9 in the anime. While I thought OP was a silly manga with terribly drawn characters, I decided to give it a chance after a friend of mine requested that I read it. While I still think its pretty silly (a Giraffe??? Laundry powers??? Superhuman transvestites??), and I think the art outside of the fight scenes is terrible, I also think the story is top notch, the characterization is really good, and the world is very well developed. That being said, I think there are serious problems that most OP fanboys chose to ignore when they put together their "OMGZ Oda is Teh G0dz0rz" and "OP>>>>>>Naruto" threads. I am not here to change anybodies mind, or flame or downgrade the manga in any way; I just think these things are overlooked when having a decent discussion about OP in relation to other mangas.

Well about the giraffe power ... I wonder why u did not notice the strong and obvious message there :S.... Even if a power is silly it doesnt mean its weak :/ ... that was the point of that whole fight , Super human traveetites?? this is a manga about super humans- if there are strong males and females why not travestites :/ .... the whole point of laundry powers was for comic relief :/ ... most of the forum found it funn even the OBD . As far as the art is concerned there was a recent oda interview (i cant find it now-it would be nice if someone linked it here) where he was praised for his art, 3D appearence and bringing charachters to life :/

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.


Well no-one dies in OP , but everyone loses at some point , So there is no specific plotshield for the main charachters ... crocodile lost at arabasta, straw hats lost at shaboandy -- everyone is treated equally which makes the manga better ... Its either this or FMA kill everyone good or bad ... anything in between is bad :/


Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

Note: We are not even going to bring up Haki in relation to this...


Yes power ups are shown without training unlike DB or naruto ... but isnt that awesome .. If u look at OP closely u realise that at every sea trip they show only important events/departure and arrival -- so u never know when they train , and everyones power up was shown clearly ... Kabuto for instance was shown in the manga ( u shud read that part with more concentration)

As far as nami and chopper go ,.. their charachters have always remained the same :s I dont understand what u mean...

Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

hmm the whole going merry thing "klaubleitermann" was clearly explained and forshadowed from skypiea ... I dont know why u tot it was wierd... as for luffy , strawhats were stronger than arlong so it was a handicap given to make stuff interesting :/

Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory


ok everyone mentioned it before - but i will make it clear :/

Being pirates and fighting with other pirates is one thing but a story arc is essential in a manga :/

As a pirate/story arc they land on islands -Where they sometimes face problems and fight them out in different ways and a background story is also running -- What else do u want in here ? :S If there are no problems to fight for its not a shonen at all :S ....



Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)


Sanji fighting thru the train was pretty good in my opinion ... It made the arc random instead of the generic chase arc where good characters are together chasing bad guys ...or u wanted sanji to sit quietly not predicting the situation

Thats the main difference between sanji and zzoro in the crew.... The real point of tenryubito and PK .... Pirate king is the person with most freedom on the sea -- If luffy cant free his own friends from someone wats the point of the title king ??

As for streching this manga ... Is better strenching it this way with plot rather than having every kick of every characher drawn out in a manga fight for 2 years or having a one sided plot :/ ( this is where OP, hxh and FMA strike well)

Like I said, these are just things I see that are wrong with OP. I don't think its terrible, or that it is a bad manga; I just think people don't see the forest for the trees when they praise Oda thru the moon.


:zaru


JihaD

Praising the writer of a manga is wrong now :/ ?... When bleach is bad we see lolkubo's going all around ... So u want to trash an author but no praise him for reading his work online for free :S

[BadassTaisouIsBadass]

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.

If you look back in the wee past chapters, you'll know that this statement doesn't necessarily apply in all cases with OP. Rather than saying NOBODY DIES in general, I'd say "nobody dies in present events, only in flashbacks/offscreen events(Zoro vs Millions, Ms. Monday, etc).


Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

Ever heard of foreshadowing?

Also, you expect everyone in the crew to be on the same level as the Monster Trio? Good lord. There's such a thing called balance. Duh.

Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

Had to quote that line for sheer stupidity. Seriously, do you actually read One Piece or you're just skipping through the chapters?

The fact of the matter that I'm quite surprised you haven't realized by now is that Oda's DEMs are foreshadowed (again, you aren't paying attention to this word). :nuts

Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

No Wai, you just didn't...

Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

Sanji fighting the other CPS/Marines/whatnot on the Puffing Tom goes to show that the Marines aren't an incompetent bunch. You're saying like you wanted the trio's (Sanji, Usopp, Franky) trip with Puffing Tom to be a smooth-sailing trip, just so they can eat their snacks, watch TV, and enjoy the luxuries of the sea train when there are Marines onboard. LOL.

Again, I wtf'ed at the Tenryuubito's relation to Luffy becoming PK. SRSLY NOW?! Fact of the day: Tenryuubitos' are the descendants of the creators of the World Government. Do you think as long as those assholes who get everything they want exist Luffy will be able to become PK?

Meh. Come back when you've read OP thoroughly.

EDIT: Darn, got beaten by kirthiabcd. Oh well, late post is late.

[Muah]

I found nightmare luffy a joke but that is just me and neither naruto or one piece worlds are realistic i mean the ninjas in naruto are wizards if anything lol but what i do find realistic in naruto is the philosophical aspects which is not found in one piece.

You found NL a joke? You might as well find all of One Piece a joke becuase NL was just a simple part of the story. DF's thats all it was a power from a DF. Dfs were already explained so if you find it not to your liking than maybe One Piee isn't for you. Your basically just bashing One Piece and how its written calling it a joke.

[ObscureCosmos]

I agree with firefist also but you have to see that the OP viewed what was stated as flaws while you did not just a difference of opinion does not mean it was bashing.

I found nightmare luffy a joke but that is just me and neither naruto or one piece worlds are realistic i mean the ninjas in naruto are wizards if anything lol but what i do find realistic in naruto is the philosophical aspects which is not found in one piece.

I said I found Jihad's reply to me as a bashing of One Piece.
Saying things as it's a joke.. :mad


Well, ok.. v_v I got over-board. And angry..

It's just an opinion.. Ok. :laugh lol

..And you have a point about Naruto having ''philosophical aspects''.. :notrust

[BadassTaisouIsBadass]

what i do find realistic in naruto is the philosophical aspects which is not found in one piece.

:zaru

Hope this won't shock you, but... One Piece has far better philosophies than Naruto. :nod

[ObscureCosmos]

One Piece has far better philosophies than Naruto. :nod

How so? :laugh

[Firefist]

Praising the writer of a manga is wrong now :/ ?... When bleach is bad we see lolkubo's going all around ... So u want to trash an author but no praise him for reading his work online for free :S

this isnt praising anymore, its more like worshipping.

[DarkDDragon]

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu27/goku017/5zi6jc.gif

[Muah]

How so? :laugh

I find it hard to believe you could say this if youv'e read One Piece. I will assume you read it and forgot. First of Naruto is full of crap. Every arc when luffy is laying down a beatdown he tells his enemy why there thinking is shit(I can only imagine if he fought Naruto). Naruto is overdramatic tripe and everything will be solved by love. Try to remember the kuro arc or Baratie or Arlong park becuase those tragedys actually had answers to them pretty romantic but true none the less.

When I watch Naruto I watch them ignore things. Im still wating for Naruto to answer Haku. His answer for everything is don't hurt my freinds but it always ends with the person dieing. Naruto has been wrong in fights and still pushed his thinking on ppl. Garra is an absolute joke along with pain. Naruto got some preschool problems compared to One Piece. Everyone is delusional and stuff well thats IMO.

Answer to Arlong Park:

Just keep living,thats whats important.


Answer to Sasukes problem:
You want to revive your clan and kill our borther? Don't be silly and come home.

[-Ender-]

just finished reading :zaru bunch of good points and a lot of LOL :zaru

[abcd]

this isnt praising anymore, its more like worshipping.

Well i never said kubo was being critiscised... he was being trashed :/ ... this is the opposite effect ..... now u want to ask people not to "worship" :lmao ... arent u forcing ur opinion on others ....



naruto philosophical my ass :mad

[Muah]

Oda being a God is just his fans playfully saying he's a really good artist.I mean I can stop One Piece whenever I want.

Really!!

[-Ender-]

^no u cant :LOS we all know it :LOS

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Full of shit!!

Same plot my ass. You should just kill yourself with fire. I don't see whats wrong with an Okama being powerfull or a ship finding its way to its nakama when its obviously possesed. Only thing wrong with One Piece is that the verse is to big and theres not enuf time to explore it all unless Oda can pull off some magic!!


Yea, because THIS is how you have a decent discussion about manga flaws. You are the EXACT OP fan I was talking about that makes people not even WANT to read the manga. You refuse to see ANYTHING remotely wrong, respect another person's opinion, or listen to a differing viewpoint. Instead, you tell me "kill myself with fire"... I hope your mother dies a slow, painful death and you have to sit in the hospital with your favorite copy of One Piece and listen to it happen. See how a phrase like this DOESN'T contribute to a healthy discussion?

So now your mad that oda is using plot. Maybe Luffy should just land at every island eat and go to the next one never getting into any fights and have a ton of dialouge that no one cares about any more. It's an adventure manga and it won't be dragged out till someone actually gets tired of it.

May I also address you saying that the strawhats get random powerups? First off I need to know where are you getting your complaints. Do you read forums and copy down complaints. Even though you suggest that fighting at every arc doesn't really contribute to the story you never stop to think it would make them stronger. I find that much better than training for a day or a couple of weeks and jumping up 2 or three levels which isn't really realistic.

Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd came out of NO WHERE. Luffy literally gotten thrown thru a building by Lucci, landed in-between two more buildings, got on the rocketman, and said "I got a new technique I wanna try" :oh

Sanji was fighting Jaybura and said "I am getting heated up," spun around, and suddenly has fire for a leg :oh

Climatact, Rumble Ball, hell even Kabuto (in its own way) makes sense from a storyline perspective, as there is a logical explanation for where the power comes from. The above provides nothing... As I said, Oda at least shows Zoro doing SOMETHING (lifting weights, practicing), so it makes sense that he has new abilities EVERY fight, but its still kind of strange IMO. Furthermore, without DIALOGUE, there is no story; we have no understanding of the characters, their motivations, or how the world affects their goals and ideals.

And don't tell me what I suggest; I gave anything but praise to the fights, storyline, and characterization. The flaws (as I saw them) were specific. You seem to want to pick a fight, but your head is too far up your ass to realize you lost this before you won.

I think this type of trolling has gotten old.

All your points op were boring as shit and made no sense if you really did watch One Piece, which I doubt you really did.

You actually called ME a troll? Why? Because our opinions differ? Because I didn't create a "Oda Lemme have your babies One Piece Rulez!!!>>>>>>>Naruto/Kishi Lolz" post? Because I felt like One Piece isn't the manga version of sliced bread you seem to think it is? Because I am not attached to a manga/mangeka in the manner you are? Who or what gives you the right to even ATTEMPT to talk down on someone else for their opinion? Everyone else here has at least ATTEMPTED to read my OP, give their opinion, or at the very least (attempt) to chime in from a neutral standpoint. You chose to go another route, which means I touched a nerve, which means I am probably right, and you simply don't want to admit it.

I mean, quite honestly, you didn't have to bother clicking on my thread and TROLLING me with your nonsensical comments and flaming.

Thanks.
Your name is win. :laugh *Reps up*

I also liked your post.. It makes sense.
If you find too many flaws in an anime/manga (some which don't even make sense) then that anime/manga is not for you.

And let me tell ya..
By the looks of his/her reply to me, Jihad is not stating flaws, he/she is bashing One Piece.. :gun Betch gotta die.

How exactly did I "bash" One Piece? Because I said the author reuses a general plotline repeatedly? Because he makes use of Deus Ex Machina in a manner that becomes detrimental to his story? Because he refuses to kill off characters, eliminating an air of suspense to what are supposed to fights between pirates (killers) and the the law (also killers)?

Secondly, you can find flaws in something and still like it. I happen to like One Piece a lot, just like I said in my OP. However, I still think the majority of fanboys make too much of this manga, and don't bother to discuss the flaws or make an attempt to even SEE the flaws.



Even if it's not canon, it's a small way to explain Gear second. :notrust So it shouldn't exactly be a ''Wtf moment''.. <.<'

.. @ Jihad Uzumaki: Ok, did you not see me say that Oda doesn't show us everything?.. Hell, you even said it yourself in your OP.
Of course it would be a surprise that Usopp finally showed us a new weapon.
And Sogeking, (we know all know that was Usopp, we're not as dumb as Luffy) was SUPPOSED TO BE A NEW CHARACTER, WHO THE HELL CARES WHERE HE GOT HIS DAMN WEAPON FROM?! :C Not like we saw Sogeking join the Straw Hats from the beginning. Call it a ''Wtf moment'' if you want.. It's One Piece. Just stfu. Because you're not a fan, you woulnd't understand.. Because you watch Naruto, you're used to seeing everything in detail, so it's hard to take in something as random as One Piece. That's the real problem here.

We did see "sogeking" join from the beginning...He was on the Puffing Tom! Plus, there is no "sogeking"...it's Ussop! Stop talking about him as though he is a different character, when he clearly is not. As far as a "WTF" moment... that is EXACTLY what I am calling it, because THAT'S WHAT IT IS!!! Do you even know what Deus Ex Machina means?

And also, Explanations>> Randomness any day of the week; I don't see why I need to EXPLAIN (there's that word again) something like this to you.

..Now, Nightmare Luffy.

NL is not a joke. It was one of the most epic moments in One Piece (imo).
And you say the rest of the pirates could have used the shadows on themselves.. Yeah, not like they didn't try. :notrust ..

My points still stand. Why didn't they use this "ability" to find their own shadows? You aren't going to tell me that one or two shadows couldn't be enough to stop a one shadow zombie? Furthermore, placing a SHADOW in a human being? Why does this make sense? At least the Moria "placing shadows in dead bodies to animate them" made a small amount of sense, but this ability to place them in living things reeks of Deus Ex Machina (it wasn't mentioned at ALL until brought to Luffy's attention); furthermore, why did A) Moria not know, and B) if he did, why didn't he put more than one in a zombie like Oars?

Look, if you like NML or anything else, thats great! That means Oda is doing his job as a writer. To try and critisize someone else because they point out the gaps in logic (from a storyline perspective) as though don't exist is extremely hypocrititcal and detrimental to a good discussion.

Merry? Ridiculous? One Piece? x.x

What does this even mean? I already explained how this shouldn't be plausible BY ANY MEANS, and if you don't think this was ridiculous, you have your One Piece underwear on too tight...

Yeah.. Just as ridiculous as Naruto learning how to summon giant frogs..
Wait, Naruto summoning frogs is normal in the Naruto world, right?

Great. Not ridiculous at all.

For the last time... I AM NOT COMPARING ONE PEICE TO NARUTO

One story has nothing to do with the other; Furthermore-- stop trying to compare a fictional story to the real world. Yes, in Naruto people can summon animals; this has been established since the FIRST arc, then repeated over the course of the manga. While it may not make sense in REAL life, in the fictional world where it takes place, it is normal, no different than eating a strange fruit and becoming smoke, fire, light, rubber, or a giraffe is in One Piece. :zaru

And then use that frog to beat a bijuu. Like I said call One Piece silly if you want but b4 you bash it actually watch the series. One Piece is way more serious than any manga I've read it's just funny.

To say One Piece is "more serious than any manga you have read" just means you haven't read much manga. I am sorry, but a swordsman fighting a giraffe, a man who can create "doors," and a woman who's power is to "turn people to laundry" does not strike me as serious.

Also, is that the only thing you can say to me? That I haven't "watched" the series, even though I continue to give you manga specific examples and reasoning backed by the story? GTFO!!!!


:zaru


JihaD

[mad-ass]

So now your mad that oda is using plot. Maybe Luffy should just land at every island eat and go to the next one never getting into any fights and have a ton of dialouge that no one cares about any more. It's an adventure manga and it won't be dragged out till someone actually gets tired of it.

May I also address you saying that the strawhats get random powerups? First off I need to know where are you getting your complaints. Do you read forums and copy down complaints. Even though you suggest that fighting at every arc doesn't really contribute to the story you never stop to think it would make them stronger. I find that much better than training for a day or a couple of weeks and jumping up 2 or three levels which isn't really realistic.

I agree on this. I'm a kickboxer myself and sparring will increase your skill much more than any kind of technique training.

[Edward Newgate]

How so? :laugh
Do you really think themes like chain of hatred and bonds are better than themes like slavery (Tenryuubito) and other themes you can see in One Piece?

[Nico Robin]

Most people that bash One Piece miss the main reason One Piece is there -- for FUN. It is not a serious manga, so please stop accusing it of lacking elements of a serious manga.

This is why nobody important dies (Bellamy died btw)
This is why a lot is there for teh epic lulz and pure winz
This is why we don't see anyone's training
This is why we don't see psycho villains with complex personalities
This is why nothing is complex or serious in this manga
This is why we enjoy it!

Those who don't like it, call those "flaws", however, they are just elements of this type of manga. It cannot be any different. It is near perfect as it is in its own style. Though it does have a few plot holes, but who doesn't?

So you just missed all the lulz, what a shame :LOS go read angsty emo manga.

[mad-ass]

How so? :laugh

OP is about dreams, adventure and freedom.

While some other serie is just trying to be cool by using emo themes like hatred. Extremely lame.

[-Ender-]

Most people that bash One Piece miss the main reason One Piece is there -- for FUN. It is not a serious manga, so please stop accusing it of lacking elements of a serious manga.

This is why nobody important dies (Bellamy died btw)
This is why a lot is there for teh epic lulz and pure winz
This is why we don't see anyone's training
This is why we don't see psycho villains with complex personalities
This is why nothing is complex or serious in this manga
This is why we enjoy it!

Those who don't like it, call those "flaws", however, they are just elements of this type of manga. It cannot be any different. It is near perfect as it is in its own style. Though it does have a few plot holes, but who doesn't?

So you just missed all the lulz, what a shame :LOS go read angsty emo manga.


TY :zaru this thread is lulz :LOS

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Most people that bash One Piece miss the main reason One Piece is there -- for FUN. It is not a serious manga, so please stop accusing it of lacking elements of a serious manga.

This is why nobody important dies (Bellamy died btw)
This is why a lot is there for teh epic lulz and pure winz
This is why we don't see anyone's training
This is why we don't see psycho villains with complex personalities
This is why nothing is complex or serious in this manga
This is why we enjoy it!

Those who don't like it, call those "flaws", however, they are just elements of this type of manga. It cannot be any different. It is near perfect as it is in its own style. Though it does have a few plot holes, but who doesn't?

So you just missed all the lulz, what a shame :LOS go read angsty emo manga.

So wait? Is One Piece supposed to be serious, or is it supposed to be fun? I have one troll telling me one thing, and this troll telling me another... :oh

Please read my posts here before you simply start posting nonsense. I clearly stated the during the fights and/or action scenes, it is pretty much a given that NO ONE will die. Instead of asking if someone has read OP, maybe you should READ my posts, then respond to me.

Plus, I don't think you have read your own manga correctly; there are plenty of "serious" themes, and "physco villains with complex personalities" in this manga-- people like Lucci, Arlong, and themes like "Absolute Justice aka The Greater Good" are both serious themes (and characters).

Secondly, flaws or flaws; as I stated, you don't have to dislike something in order to state what you feel is wrong with it. Fried foods taste great, but they are bad for your health-- does that mean I should cut them out entirely? No, because I like some fried foods; doesn't mean I can't recognize what is wrong with it.

Finally, I don't read "angsty emo crap" manga. Keep your "Teh Epic Lulz" and "Teh Epic Winz" away from this discussion. YOU are the EXACT person I was talking about; You don't even answer or at least discuss my opinion without trying to attempt to feel superior, as though there is something I don't get. OP is great, but it is not the end-all-be-all of manga; it has easily identifiable flaws that, while they do not detract from the story, do make it less than perfect.

Sorry to be the one to break this to you. :zaru

JihaD

[-Ender-]

^Oars Jr just died in the fight :zaru

and Lucci and Arlong weren't psycho villains lol sure ones an arrogant narrow-minded sob and the others a egotistic w/a twisted view of the word nakama, but their not psychos :lmao the closets op has had to a psycho would prolly be moria :lmao

[hakke]

emm... first someone defends OP saying its more serious and now another one says its just FUN and not serious at all.

And the "those are now flaws, they are elements of this type of manga" excuse is awesome, just the kind of answer that shows one is unwilling to see ANY flaws.

[Muah]

Do you really think themes like chain of hatred and bonds are better than themes like slavery (Tenryuubito) and other themes you can see in One Piece?

This.:zaru
I agree on this. I'm a kickboxer myself and sparring will increase your skill much more than any kind of technique training.

Yea daily training is what makes the difference but hands on is what will actually make you stronger. No one can get stronger by intense training maybe healtier and more fit but as far as fighting sparring and matches are needed.


OP is about dreams, adventure and freedom.

While some other serie is just trying to be cool by using emo themes like hatred. Extremely lame.

Yes, any body who says otherwise just fails. So what if its a giraffe fighting a guy with a sword in his mouth your missing the fucking point. I mean One Piece is known for its drama so who can it not be serious.

Yea, because THIS is how you have a decent discussion about manga flaws. You are the EXACT OP fan I was talking about that makes people not even WANT to read the manga. You refuse to see ANYTHING remotely wrong, respect another person's opinion, or listen to a differing viewpoint. Instead, you tell me "kill myself with fire"... I hope your mother dies a slow, painful death and you have to sit in the hospital with your favorite copy of One Piece and listen to it happen. See how a phrase like this DOESN'T contribute to a healthy discussion?



Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd came out of NO WHERE. Luffy literally gotten thrown thru a building by Lucci, landed in-between two more buildings, got on the rocketman, and said "I got a new technique I wanna try" :oh

Sanji was fighting Jaybura and said "I am getting heated up," spun around, and suddenly has fire for a leg :oh

Climatact, Rumble Ball, hell even Kabuto (in its own way) makes sense from a storyline perspective, as there is a logical explanation for where the power comes from. The above provides nothing... As I said, Oda at least shows Zoro doing SOMETHING (lifting weights, practicing), so it makes sense that he has new abilities EVERY fight, but its still kind of strange IMO. Furthermore, without DIALOGUE, there is no story; we have no understanding of the characters, their motivations, or how the world affects their goals and ideals.

And don't tell me what I suggest; I gave anything but praise to the fights, storyline, and characterization. The flaws (as I saw them) were specific. You seem to want to pick a fight, but your head is too far up your ass to realize you lost this before you won.



You actually called ME a troll? Why? Because our opinions differ? Because I didn't create a "Oda Lemme have your babies One Piece Rulez!!!>>>>>>>Naruto/Kishi Lolz" post? Because I felt like One Piece isn't the manga version of sliced bread you seem to think it is? Because I am not attached to a manga/mangeka in the manner you are? Who or what gives you the right to even ATTEMPT to talk down on someone else for their opinion? Everyone else here has at least ATTEMPTED to read my OP, give their opinion, or at the very least (attempt) to chime in from a neutral standpoint. You chose to go another route, which means I touched a nerve, which means I am probably right, and you simply don't want to admit it.

I mean, quite honestly, you didn't have to bother clicking on my thread and TROLLING me with your nonsensical comments and flaming.



How exactly did I "bash" One Piece? Because I said the author reuses a general plotline repeatedly? Because he makes use of Deus Ex Machina in a manner that becomes detrimental to his story? Because he refuses to kill off characters, eliminating an air of suspense to what are supposed to fights between pirates (killers) and the the law (also killers)?

Secondly, you can find flaws in something and still like it. I happen to like One Piece a lot, just like I said in my OP. However, I still think the majority of fanboys make too much of this manga, and don't bother to discuss the flaws or make an attempt to even SEE the flaws.





We did see "sogeking" join from the beginning...He was on the Puffing Tom! Plus, there is no "sogeking"...it's Ussop! Stop talking about him as though he is a different character, when he clearly is not. As far as a "WTF" moment... that is EXACTLY what I am calling it, because THAT'S WHAT IT IS!!! Do you even know what Deus Ex Machina means?

And also, Explanations>> Randomness any day of the week; I don't see why I need to EXPLAIN (there's that word again) something like this to you.



My points still stand. Why didn't they use this "ability" to find their own shadows? You aren't going to tell me that one or two shadows couldn't be enough to stop a one shadow zombie? Furthermore, placing a SHADOW in a human being? Why does this make sense? At least the Moria "placing shadows in dead bodies to animate them" made a small amount of sense, but this ability to place them in living things reeks of Deus Ex Machina (it wasn't mentioned at ALL until brought to Luffy's attention); furthermore, why did A) Moria not know, and B) if he did, why didn't he put more than one in a zombie like Oars?

Look, if you like NML or anything else, thats great! That means Oda is doing his job as a writer. To try and critisize someone else because they point out the gaps in logic (from a storyline perspective) as though don't exist is extremely hypocrititcal and detrimental to a good discussion.



What does this even mean? I already explained how this shouldn't be plausible BY ANY MEANS, and if you don't think this was ridiculous, you have your One Piece underwear on too tight...



For the last time... I AM NOT COMPARING ONE PEICE TO NARUTO

One story has nothing to do with the other; Furthermore-- stop trying to compare a fictional story to the real world. Yes, in Naruto people can summon animals; this has been established since the FIRST arc, then repeated over the course of the manga. While it may not make sense in REAL life, in the fictional world where it takes place, it is normal, no different than eating a strange fruit and becoming smoke, fire, light, rubber, or a giraffe is in One Piece. :zaru



To say One Piece is "more serious than any manga you have read" just means you haven't read much manga. I am sorry, but a swordsman fighting a giraffe, a man who can create "doors," and a woman who's power is to "turn people to laundry" does not strike me as serious.

Also, is that the only thing you can say to me? That I haven't "watched" the series, even though I continue to give you manga specific examples and reasoning backed by the story? GTFO!!!!


:zaru


JihaD

Your post is way to long and every time I looked at it briefly I saw flaws so blah. I will address you talking about gear third.... no i won't:P. As a man I am known for my abilty to listen to others but when your wrong your wrong and its even worse when you boring.

[-Ender-]

I agree on some of the flaws and I say its more fun THAN serious. It has both aspects but its meant to be more fun than serious :lmao

[Muah]

^Oars Jr just died in the fight :zaru

and Lucci and Arlong weren't psycho villains lol sure ones an arrogant narrow-minded sob and the others a egotistic w/a twisted view of the word nakama, but their not psychos :lmao the closets op has had to a psycho would prolly be moria :lmao

:C
Enel maybe, dont bash Moria!

Remember when he screamed at Kuma:rofl

[-Ender-]

^thats true, Enel was another crazy guy :lmao although he turned out to be right bout Fairy Verth :lmao I'm not bashing him :P Just saying hes crazy :lmao i mean come on, the guy wanted to create and undead army to help him become PK :lmao anyone who messes w/the undead is crazy :uwahresident evil should've taught u that :C

[Muah]

I agree on some of the flaws and I say its more fun THAN serious. It has both aspects but its meant to be more fun than serious :lmao

Why are ppl so afraid of epic. Its extremely serious and funny. The way the main charcter handles situations are both profound and extremly retarted.

I guess Oda just doesn't dwell. I mean Luffy didn't even wan't to hear Nami's story. It's hard to believe a humble calm looking guy like Oda can do something like that.

this is Oda on the outside :amuse

This is him on the inside:gar

[abcd]

my huge post was totally ignored :-(


@ jihad : most of the flaws u pointed out have been pointed out many times before and everyone knows about them :oh ..... So u want us to sstop praising oda or One piece .... cry me a river :3

[-Ender-]

^Im sry :Jet :Jet

[Jihad Uzamaki]

my huge post was totally ignored :-(


@ jihad : most of the flaws u pointed out have been pointed out many times before and everyone knows about them :oh ..... So u want us to sstop praising oda or One piece .... cry me a river :3

Nobody cares whether you praise Oda or OP or the god you drop to your knees and pray to every night-- To be quite honest, that is your perogative. My point was to express how I felt after reading this manga and watching the anime, especially after reading all the various love notes that OP fans put together when talking about this manga.

I guess it was just weird because I see people quick to bash other mangas/mangekas, but no one seem capable of being honest about OP...


Oh yea, and fuck the river you want me to cry :amazed

JihaD

[Muah]

my huge post was totally ignored :-(


@ jihad : most of the flaws u pointed out have been pointed out many times before and everyone knows about them :oh ..... So u want us to sstop praising oda or One piece .... cry me a river :3

Ok let do this piece by piece you give me a flaw and destroy it ok?:P

There are no flaws in One Piece at least in my eyes, ppl just seem to not like how it is done.

Ok let's say one piece is a joke, ever heard of Bobobo nothing is serious in that manga I think but does that make it flawed?

[-Ender-]

as it was stated b4, most of the "flaws" u found were already stated long b4 :lmao no one cared :lmao

[Muah]

I guess it was just weird because I see people quick to bash other mangas/mangekas, but no one seem capable of being honest about OP...

Oh yea, and fuck the river you want me to cry :amazed

JihaD

Ok ill be honest:(

One Piece is fucking epic. Wth do you want me to say? You expect ppl to complain about ppl not dieing like they complain about Naruto sucking. Srry but One Piece doesn't suck.

Your opening is no more than opinion. Opinion some might share and some may not but it's not nearly close enuf to get ppl to complain or give a flying rats ass.

How come when someone disproves what you say you change subjects. Oars just fucking died you can know longer use that.

[ObscureCosmos]

P.S.

Guys, I was being sarcastic when I asked 'How so'.. Wari.

How exactly did I "bash" One Piece? Because I said the author reuses a general plotline repeatedly? Because he makes use of Deus Ex Machina in a manner that becomes detrimental to his story? Because he refuses to kill off characters, eliminating an air of suspense to what are supposed to fights between pirates (killers) and the the law (also killers)?

Secondly, you can find flaws in something and still like it. I happen to like One Piece a lot, just like I said in my OP. However, I still think the majority of fanboys make too much of this manga, and don't bother to discuss the flaws or make an attempt to even SEE the flaws.

I considered it ''bashing'' when you said that Nightmare Luffy was a joke.
I also considered it ''bashing'' when you said that the Going Merry was ridiculous.
At this point, I'm ready to stop typing because debating with you about something that you're trying to 'make me understand' is completely useless. It's like you're trying to force on me what my real name is. (Get it?)

Because you are not a One Piece fanatic, you assume that ''this'' is fact.. And ''that'' is not.. What are you trying to be? ..The great Oda-sama? Pft.
You can't assume that this and that is flaw, just because of the way you see things.
You assume 'that' should be this way, and that's not how things work. One Piece is about dreams and is..pretty much a fantasy world. You can't apply rules and facts in a fantasy world. :notrust Even an idiot like me knows that.

I'm not trying to say that One Piece is perfect.
Because it's not.. You made a lot of valid points in your OP which I painfully agreed to with a smile..
However, now I'm getting a different vibe from you. I know I'm giving off a somewhat troll-ish vibe myself, but.. Meh. This is what you call debating (imo).

We did see "sogeking" join from the beginning...He was on the Puffing Tom! Plus, there is no "sogeking"...it's Ussop! Stop talking about him as though he is a different character, when he clearly is not. As far as a "WTF" moment... that is EXACTLY what I am calling it, because THAT'S WHAT IT IS!!! Do you even know what Deus Ex Machina means?

And also, Explanations>> Randomness any day of the week; I don't see why I need to EXPLAIN (there's that word again) something like this to you.

When I said ''beginning'', I meant since the beginning of One Piece. :awesome Lulz. Lame joke on my part. Wari.
But seriously, what I meant is that Sogeking is not part of the Straw Hat crew. He was just ''helping'' them save Robin.
And you must be dumber than Luffy.. Because I clearly said.. (WE ALL KNOW THAT WAS USOPP, WE'RE NOT AS DUMB AS LUFFY). The fact that you're reminding me that Usopp is Sogeking..is pretty stupid on your part.
Howeveeer.
Even though that fact remains, we have to talk as if Usopp and Sogeking are not the same person, if you want to drag out the weapon ''Kabuto''.. Because this was about Kabuto from the beginning.
It was never confirmed, but from then onward, Usopp had ''fused'' with Sogeking.. :awesome lol.

Frankly, I'm starting to not care about this.
But..

You say ''Explanations>> Randomness''.. Again, stop putting a big, fat ''[I]FACT'' sign in One Piece. You are not the creator.

Randomness = One Piece. Your rules don't apply.

My points still stand. Why didn't they use this "ability" to find their own shadows? You aren't going to tell me that one or two shadows couldn't be enough to stop a one shadow zombie? Furthermore, placing a SHADOW in a human being? Why does this make sense? At least the Moria "placing shadows in dead bodies to animate them" made a small amount of sense, but this ability to place them in living things reeks of Deus Ex Machina (it wasn't mentioned at ALL until brought to Luffy's attention); furthermore, why did A) Moria not know, and B) if he did, why didn't he put more than one in a zombie like Oars?

Look, if you like NML or anything else, thats great! That means Oda is doing his job as a writer. To try and critisize someone else because they point out the gaps in logic (from a storyline perspective) as though don't exist is extremely hypocrititcal and detrimental to a good discussion.


FIRST OF ALL.. :notrust
Those pirates were not strong. In case you didn't notice.. They barely fought during the Thirller Bark arc. All they did was cheer on Luffy and the others.
And yeah, they could maybe take out a few zombies here and there (explains why they had so many shadows for Luffy to use). BUT. Zombies are nothing compared to Moria.
You're stupid.
Since you're stating facts about One Piece, you should know that the shadows, in the end.. Won't come back unless Moria says so (Luffy had to force him).

''Furthermore, placing a SHADOW in a human being? Why does this make sense?'' ..?
..I am not even going to debate on that. :oh You are just...

Anyway.
Why didn't Moria place more than one shadow inside 'Oars'?
Duh. :notrust It wouldn't have made a difference with someone like Oars.
Besides, Moria was confident. Everyone seems to underestimate Luffy and his crew, at first..

Moving on.
(Oh! But dun forget.. This is nothing real, :laugh so your rules don't apply).

Now, moving on.

What does this even mean? I already explained how this shouldn't be plausible BY ANY MEANS, and if you don't think this was ridiculous, you have your One Piece underwear on too tight...

What I meant by ''Merry? Ridiculous? One Piece? x.x''..? ..Yeah, that.
I was just so stunned at your reply, that, well.. Yeah. I was babbling. .. xD

For the last time... I AM NOT COMPARING ONE PEICE TO NARUTO

One story has nothing to do with the other; Furthermore-- stop trying to compare a fictional story to the real world. Yes, in Naruto people can summon animals; this has been established since the FIRST arc, then repeated over the course of the manga. While it may not make sense in REAL life, in the fictional world where it takes place, it is normal, no different than eating a strange fruit and becoming smoke, fire, light, rubber, or a giraffe is in One Piece. :zaru

Hmmm.

By your username, I gather you're a Naruto fan? :awesome

Well, it is essential for me to drag Naruto into this.
Because.. Like you said, everything Naruto does in the Naruto world makes sense.. And that's the point I was making to you.
Things like the Going Merry being 'alive' is normal in the One Piece world.
..don't try and make me contradict my own words, please.

I am not comparing One Piece and Naruto to the real world, you're the one who's trying to put real-life facts in One Piece, [my favorite anime]..

That's just whack. I'm sorry, but I'm done with you.

Good day.

I'm adding this:

Most people that bash One Piece miss the main reason One Piece is there -- for FUN. It is not a serious manga, so please stop accusing it of lacking elements of a serious manga.

This is why nobody important dies (Bellamy died btw)
This is why a lot is there for teh epic lulz and pure winz
This is why we don't see anyone's training
This is why we don't see psycho villains with complex personalities
This is why nothing is complex or serious in this manga
This is why we enjoy it!

Those who don't like it, call those "flaws", however, they are just elements of this type of manga. It cannot be any different. It is near perfect as it is in its own style. Though it does have a few plot holes, but who doesn't?

So you just missed all the lulz, what a shame :LOS go read angsty emo manga.

Wow. =) You are amazing..
I've been debating with this Jihad forever, and you managed to kick this thread's ass in just one post... *Reps*

[Edward Newgate]

And while One Piece is generally is lighthearted, it still has its serious moments. So people can't really say it's not serious at all and just for fun.

[Shadow Replication 1480]

Are you being serious? The only arc that hasn't is the current arc that is taking place. From the Saebondy (sp) Archipelago to EVERY previous Arc, that very formula (or some similar derivative) has taken place. To say otherwise is straight denial.
Denial, my ass. If you break down the arcs, the only one that completely follows your outline is Thriller Bark. The others range from having a few things in common to hardly any at all.

[Muah]

@obscure

One Piece maybe a fantasy but the verse is bigger than Narutos. Also Naruto is an oversimplification of things a one sided view so its more fantasy than One Piece. One Piece is truth so I guess thats where I see it as more serious.

Don't you agree.

[Nico Robin]

So wait? Is One Piece supposed to be serious, or is it supposed to be fun? I have one troll telling me one thing, and this troll telling me another... :oh

Please read my posts here before you simply start posting nonsense. I clearly stated the during the fights and/or action scenes, it is pretty much a given that NO ONE will die. Instead of asking if someone has read OP, maybe you should READ my posts, then respond to me.

Plus, I don't think you have read your own manga correctly; there are plenty of "serious" themes, and "physco villains with complex personalities" in this manga-- people like Lucci, Arlong, and themes like "Absolute Justice aka The Greater Good" are both serious themes (and characters).

Secondly, flaws or flaws; as I stated, you don't have to dislike something in order to state what you feel is wrong with it. Fried foods taste great, but they are bad for your health-- does that mean I should cut them out entirely? No, because I like some fried foods; doesn't mean I can't recognize what is wrong with it.



I'm not a troll.

Sorry about not reading the thread, though I did read the first page and was bored. I have more important things to worry about than argue about manga like it means worlds to me.

Not sure who thinks One Piece is serious, and I will let him think whatever he wants. But I read it precisely because it is not serious compared to other mangas like Naruto or Vagabond, or most other mangas. And of course it has some serious moments, for example, when the crew lost Going Merry, that was pretty intense. I'm saying in general it is not serious.

Psycho villains??? Will you find a single one like Uchiha Madara? Most villains are like American comic villains, very plain and straightforward, nothing complex about them. Well, except for Joker if I mentioned American comics.. :lmao

Finally, I don't read "angsty emo crap" manga. Keep your "Teh Epic Lulz" and "Teh Epic Winz" away from this discussion. YOU are the EXACT person I was talking about; You don't even answer or at least discuss my opinion without trying to attempt to feel superior, as though there is something I don't get. OP is great, but it is not the end-all-be-all of manga; it has easily identifiable flaws that, while they do not detract from the story, do make it less than perfect.

Sorry to be the one to break this to you. :zaru

JihaD

that's why I'm saying you're missing the lulz :laugh
I don't discuss your points because it will not lead anywhere as it usually happens. Discussions and arguments NEVER work on the internetz, everyone is left with their own opinions they started with.

I was the person you were talking about??? Why, I don't think One Piece lacks flaws. It has plenty of flaws, just not the same as the ones you listed. It has plot holes and hax and loads of other things. But I just don't care as much as you do, or they don't bother me as much as they bother you. I just enjoy the ride, it's a great stress therapy.

[ObscureCosmos]

@obscure

One Piece maybe a fantasy but the verse is bigger than Narutos. Also Naruto is an oversimplification of things a one sided view so its more fantasy than One Piece. One Piece is truth so I guess thats where I see it as more serious.

Don't you agree.

You sure got me! :awesome

Heh, I'm a Naruto/One Piece/Bleach/+ fan, so it's difficult for me to...debate about/see through certain things. lol

[Nico Robin]

Thanks, OC, reps back



Edit: I think what we got here is a confusion of definition of what "serious" means. To me, a serious story is a story that is more like real life, it's mostly sad and painful, with sarcasm for spice.

[Muah]

You sure got me! :awesome

Heh, I'm a Naruto/One Piece/Bleach/+ fan, so it's difficult for me to...debate about/see through certain things. lol

Well I started watching One Piece a long time ago but forgot about it then watched Naruto but it started to piss me off. I was a Bleach fan for about a week.

Point is I found all of them enjoyable for a while but One Piece is something that never disappoints so I watch it. I dont think anyone can call me a true Naruto or Bleach fan. Are you a true One Piece fan :awesome?

[Pimp of Pimps]

To whomever thinks people in OP get stronger with no reason, they don't.

[Muah]

Calm down pimp, calm down!!

[ObscureCosmos]

Well I started watching One Piece a long time ago but forgot about it then watched Naruto but it started to piss me off. I was a Bleach fan for about a week.

Point is I found all of them enjoyable for a while but One Piece is something that never disappoints so I watch it. I dont think anyone can call me a true Naruto or Bleach fan. Are you a true One Piece fan :awesome?

Wow. :laugh

And how can you even ask me that after witnessing my pointless conversation with Jihad? :awesome

But yes, I'm a true One Piece fan.
At least.. o_o I think I am. That, or I like typing a lot about anything.

@ Lazuri: It's difficult for me to talk about what's ''serious'' and what's not when it comes to Naruto and One Piece, there is some truth in both.
For me, serious is when you talk about/see things that are important to you, yourself. Like Slavery../friendship.. It's described and dealt with in many ways..
Uhhh. Headache. Nvm. ''-.-

[Nico Robin]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/serious

[ObscureCosmos]

Or that.


Heh.

–noun
8. that which is of importance, grave, critical, or somber: You have to learn to separate the serious from the frivolous. :amazed

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Denial, my ass. If you break down the arcs, the only one that completely follows your outline is Thriller Bark. The others range from having a few things in common to hardly any at all.

I am paraphrasing, but please correct me where I am wrong:

Nami/Buggy Arc
-Arrives at island
-meets Nami
-Luffy gets captured (removed from fight)
-Zoro fights Buggy's minions (only two...just enough for Luffys crew)
-Luffy escapes, fights Buggy
-Luffy Wins
-Nami "joins"
-Leave Island


Ussop/Kuro Arc
-Arrives at Island
-Meets Ussop & Kaya
-Kuro makes his move
-Luffy gets lost (removed from fight)
-Zoro, Nami, Ussop fight Kuro's minions (Two (three if you count the cat bros as two people instead of one entity)minions again...)
-Luffy arrives, fights Kuro
-Ussop Joins
-Leave Island

Baratie Arc
-Arrive at Baratie
-Meet Sanji, Gin arrives
-Don Krieg arrives, followed by Mihawk
-Zoro fights mihawk
-Sanji fights both minions (pearl/gin)
-Luffy fights Kreig
- Luffy wins, Sanji saves luffi from drowning
-Sanji joins crew
-Luffy Leaves Baratie

Arlong Arc
-Arrive at Island
-Find out Nami's problem
-Luffy and SH arrive at Arlongs base
-Luffy gets dumped in the water (incompacitated)
-Rest of straw hats fight (Sanji, Zoro, Ussop... Arlong strangely only has three named minions... :oh)
-Each minion gets beaten, Luffy returns
-Luffy fights Arlong, wins
-Nami Joins crew
-Luffy leaves island

Deus Ex Machina- Luffy is somehow able to "stretch," although he is completely submerged underwater, and should (considering what has been expressed in the manga) should lose ALL powers.

Smoker/Loguetown Arc
-arrive at island
-runs into smoker
-Luffy gets trapped by Alvida, Buggy & Crew
-Sanji & Zoro fight minions
-Luffy Escapes due to Deus Ex Machina (Lightning bolt hitting the tower when there are NO clouds?)
-Luffy Fights smoker, loses
-Deus Ex Machina again when Dragon "randomly" shows up to help Luffy escape, aided by a large gust of wind (random because we do not know Dragon or his ties to Luffy ATM)
-Leave Island

Deus Ex Machina- Lighting bolt, Dragon, large gust of wind...

Baroque Works Arc (Oda literally repeated the same thing over and over here)
-Arrives at Grand Line, Meets Laboon
-Goes to Whiskey Island
-Becomes incapicitated (too much food/celebration)
-Zoro saves crew
-Vivi joins ship
-Leaves Island
-Arrives at little garden
-Luffy meets Dorry
-Luffy Gets trapped under skeleton (incapcitated)
-Mr.3 Captures remaining SH (minus vivi, usopp, sanji)
-Luffy Arrives
-Luffy beats Mr. 3
-Leave Island
-Arrives at Drum
-Meets Dalton
-Climbs Drum Mountain, meets Na-phan
-arrives at Top of Drum, meets Chopper & Doctor
- Wapol & Minions (two Arrive), sanji & chopper begin fight
-Luffy Runs inside to find a jacket (removed from fight)
-Sanji gets hurt, Minions merge into ONE minion, fight chopper
-Luffy fights wapol, wins
-chopper joins
-leave island
-Arrive at Arabasta
-Meets Ace
-Goes to Yuba, meets eyelashes
-Goes to Rainbase, gets captured
-Vivi arrives
-Sanji tricks Croc, frees SH
-Heads to Alburna, Luffy fights Croc, Loses
-Luffy saved by Nico robin
-Crocs minions (Six in total...same # as SH), pair off and begin fighting SH
-Luffy faces Croc second time, loses
-Luffy saved Via Deus Ex Machina with bubbles falling on him...
-Luffy goes after croc, takes a nap?
-Luffy wakes up, fights croc
-Luffy gets poisoned, survives (?), then wins???
-Leaves Island
-Nico Robin Joins

Deus Ex Machina- the Bubbles... How do the bubbles, which didn't fall before, so conviently fall on luffy after he is sucked dry? Furthermore, he is able to take a NAP on a battlefield? Finally, he was poisoned and showed little to no ill effects, even after moving around constantly... We aren't even going to discuss the duck squad, scissors, or nico choosing to save Luffy:zaru

Skypeia (ignoring the beginning.. I am just going to sky island)
- arrives on island
- meets Conis
- SH Zoro, Chopper, Nami get captured
- Luffy and SH battle satori, win
-Crew Reunites
-Going Merry repairs itself???
-War Starts, SH go look for gold
-Luffy gets seperated, Fights Wiper, ends up in snake (removed from fight)
-Enel begins destroying everyone
-Luffy fights enel, becomes incapacitated again (giant gold ball, removed from fight)
-Enel Begins destroying again
-Luffy fights Enel again, wins
-Leave Island

CP9/Water 7 Arc
-arrive at Island
-Meets Paulie/Iceberg & Frankie Family
-Ussop kidnapped and beaten
-SH fuck up frankies
-Ussop fights Luffy, leaves SH
-SH accused of attacking Iceberg
-CP9 show themselves, beat SH
-CP9 capture Frankie, Ussop, send Going Merry out to Aqua Laguna
-Sanji sneaks on Puffing Tom
-SH follow Puffing Tom w/ Galley-la, FF in tow
-Sanji defeated by Bleuno
-Arrive at Enies Lobby
-Luffy fights Bleuno, uses "new technique," Gear 2nd
-SH pair off, fight CP9 (exactly Seven), Frankie helps SH (to give them seven members)
-Luffy chases after Robin/Lucci (removed from minion fight)
-Luffy fights Lucci, uses 2nd "new technique" Gear 3rd.
-Luffy beats Lucci
-SH Trapped
-Going Merry arrives without anyone steering it, somehow braving aqua laguna, the whirlpools around enies lobby, its own broken down state, and arriving at the gates of justice to save the SH
-Merry gets funeral
-Frankie Builds new ship
-Frankie joins, Ussop re-joins
-leave island

Thriller Bark-

Look, you already know how this goes... These arcs follow the same template, just changing them enough to keep them interesting. You can whine all you want, or disagree. To deny the truth in front of you though is just tardism at its finest, and I am too smart for that :zaru

Muah- You have proven yourself to be a tard, stan, and troll of the highest order. I refuse to say anything beyond this to you, as you have no ability to discuss a topic without resorting to smear tactics and drawn out whining and tardism.

Obscure Cosmos- Don't get upset when someone answers EXACTLY what you post; you keep saying "this is what I meant" or "you know what I mean," and you come off like a troll simply because someone does not agree with your flawed viewpoint. Then, you keep trying to make this some type of naruto/OP argument, when it is as FAR from that as possible. Who cares what my name is? I am on a NARUTO forum, so I chose this name. I have already said MULTIPLE times that I am a fan of OP; I also said I can see flaws in the story. If you chose to ignore them, FEEL FREE!!! Go nuts!!! At the end of the day, its fiction. For myself, however, I will not ignore problems in a story, and I find it funny how fast OP fans are quick to point out flaws in other mangas, but not their own, then attack people who do.


:zaru

JihaD

[ObscureCosmos]

Obscure Cosmos- Don't get upset when someone answers EXACTLY what you post; you keep saying "this is what I meant" or "you know what I mean," and you come off like a troll simply because someone does not agree with your flawed viewpoint. Then, you keep trying to make this some type of naruto/OP argument, when it is as FAR from that as possible. Who cares what my name is? I am on a NARUTO forum, so I chose this name. I have already said MULTIPLE times that I am a fan of OP; I also said I can see flaws in the story. If you chose to ignore them, FEEL FREE!!! Go nuts!!! At the end of the day, its fiction. For myself, however, I will not ignore problems in a story, and I find it funny how fast OP fans are quick to point out flaws in other mangas, but not their own, then attack people who do.

I lol'ed at that whole post.. :laugh

But, this is the only part that corresponds me.

I'm not upset about your replies.. :zaru
I'm just noticing that you're a total idiot when it comes to amazing, fictional stories.

I'm done with you. +1.

[Nico Robin]

OC, can I rep you again?

JU is the troll here. I'm done with this thread.

[-Ender-]

they're pirates in a world thats mostly water. wat do u want em to do? fly to an island from time to time? :lmao

/thread failz :lmao

[ObscureCosmos]

OC, can I rep you again?

JU is the troll here. I'm done with this thread.

Ily. :ohpek

..And If you can, please do so. :awesome
So then I can rep you back.

Hahhaha. :urahaha
Poor thread.
Only managed to give me +1s.


P.S. Jihad, you misspelled ''Uzumaki'' in your username. :awesome

Just thought you should know.

[Firefist]

Well i never said kubo was being critiscised... he was being trashed :/ ... this is the opposite effect ..... now u want to ask people not to "worship" :lmao ... arent u forcing ur opinion on others ....



naruto philosophical my ass :mad

I'm not forcing, I'm just telling.

and the lolkubo isnt that good either.

[abcd]

TL;dr

I still read most of it :-(

well u missed the point .... straw hats dont fight for world piece... they fight only when their friends are harmed :/ ..... So if there is an arc in OP its because thier friends are harmed... if they are harmed these guys have tosae them :oh ... and when it happens except for arlong arc luffy fights the final boss from first ... being the shonen hero

wat part of this dont u understand ???

u repeat the going merry repairing itself after ppl have replied to u about it .... are u really reading op and not understanding that its foreshadowing ????? u know for "the ship spirit"

Well any reply more than this would be a waste of time :(

@ firefist : both happen and ppl enjpy doing both of these ... no one is serious though :/ .. its internets exageratted way of good and bad thats all

[Pacifista]

I'll cut straight to your points.

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.

This is highly overrated. Plenty of people have died in One Piece. Plenty. This includes many of Kuro's crew, 5000 of Kriegs crew by Mihawk and a few others by Krieg himself, Bellemere, the Marine Captain and his crew that went to stop Arlong, 100 bounty hunters at Whiskey Peak thay Zoro did himself, the Pig Pirates by Crocodile, probably Bellamy by Doflamingo, over 500 people by Enel and the list goes on and on.


Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

Note: We are not even going to bring up Haki in relation to this...


This is also highly overrated. The get stronger after every arc due to their experience and they get stronger that way. Sure, they don't guide you through every little thing they do, but there is a lot in this manga that you don't see. After all, they travel by ship to each island which gives them plenty of time to do stuff. Also, they explain the more powerful abilities such as Gear 2 (Luffy was thinking on this when he was utterly defeated by Aokiji and made critical observations when he faced CP9 for the first time). Luffy has always been shown to adapt his fighting style to the situation he's in, which is why you see a lot of situational moves (Water Luffy, Octopus, Tonkachi rifle, etc). Plus, most of these guys were professionally trained before the current story even started, so they may not show every move and may get ideas through experience.

And the thing with Nami and Chopper, well I don't know why you think Nami has gotten weaker. She's improved a lot with the Perfect Clima-Tact, but the Straw Hats as a whole have recently been hitting a brick wall. This is why techniques like the Rumble Ball and other techniques aren't as effective as they once were. There's a big difference between Gedatsu and Kumadori. This is why they need to further develop themselves in preparation for the New World.


Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

Now this is a new one.
Luffy strecthing underwater is nothing close to Deus Ex Machina. It's simply you misunderstanding the Devil Fruit weakness. Devil Fruit users become hammers while submerged in water. Meaning, they can do nothing themselves. HOWEVER, if the user is a Paramecia, their powers are still on since all Paramecia types have their bodies physically altered. Meaning Luffy is rubber 100% of the time, even when submerged in water. However, he just can't move himself. That's the difference between logia's and zoans because they two latter can turn their power on and off whenver they want.
The Going Merry just did what Usopp does. Mend the problems, not fix them. And Nightmare Luffy was using Moria's power against him with the help of others. And it didn't come out of the blue since we were right there when he found out about the power up. So no. No cop outs.


Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

No....no, not really. Then again, for any and all stories you could make a simple plotline and say they're all the same. However, what you have here does not even follow the prescribed events that usually happen. Not everyone gets a fight. Not everyone fights the leader. Luffy isn't always removed. Deus ex machina, no.

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)


Like I said, these are just things I see that are wrong with OP. I don't think its terrible, or that it is a bad manga; I just think people don't see the forest for the trees when they praise Oda thru the moon.


:zaru


JihaD


Filler? OK, here's the big difference between One Piece and some other manga. It's a living, breathing world. While some other manga focus specifically on their group of heroes and occassionally some others, in One Piece the Straw Hat pirates aren't the center of the Universe. Only one part of it. All of the other groups have their places in the story and help create the feeling that this world continues on outside the existence of the Straw Hats.

To go to what you pointed out you have as follows.

Did we need Sanji going through the other CP agents? Well, seeing as how they were all guarding Robin from him why wouldn't we see it? We already know that Sanji is extra protective over the female members.

The Tenryubuto are the descendants of the people who created the World Government. The same World Government that the Straw Hat pirates declared war on and are constantly butting heads on. The same World Government that destroyed Ohara for learning too much, especially about the Void Century which is also the same island that Robin comes from (and let us not forget Robin's ultimate dream). The same World Government that the Revolutionaries are fighting, which is the same Revolutionary group that Dragon is leading. See how it's important now?

And you have a problem with pirate groups? I don't even understand this. From the start, it was called the Great Pirate Age. It'd be immensely disappointed if there weren't other pirate groups. They breathe more life into the world of One Piece and add rich characters. I truly don't understand this gripe. If it was just Luffy and his group, what kind of Pirate era would that be? Not to mention we wouldn't have so many important character developments and interesting characters adding to the story.

Shichibukai are pirates that the World Government needs to help the Marines balance the Yonkou. The Admirals are the Marines greatest attack force. The Goresei are the World Government essentially, and give direct orders to the Marines and the Shichibukai. The Supernova aren't a group, just the name of all of the new rookies. I thought it great that the Straw Hats weren't the only new guys gunning for the great treasure of Gol D. Roger.

So I really see nothing wrong with what you mentioned as problems. Most of it is just misunderstanding and trivialization of the importance of the many things that happen in One Piece. All of the characters add to the rich story. All of the organizations make One Piece a real world. The power ups aren't as random as you think and generally have explanations or foreshadowing or both.

So there, I hope this helps you out.

[milkshake1]

it seems to me that the op is annoyed that people like one piece as much as they do and has unwillingly pointed out what makes one piece so good in that all its flaws have no relevance to one pieces quality as manga which is the best u can hope for considering nothings perfect.

[ObscureCosmos]

I'll cut straight to your points.



This is highly overrated. Plenty of people have died in One Piece. Plenty. This includes many of Kuro's crew, 5000 of Kriegs crew by Mihawk and a few others by Krieg himself, Bellemere, the Marine Captain and his crew that went to stop Arlong, 100 bounty hunters at Whiskey Peak thay Zoro did himself, the Pig Pirates by Crocodile, probably Bellamy by Doflamingo, over 500 people by Enel and the list goes on and on.



This is also highly overrated. The get stronger after every arc due to their experience and they get stronger that way. Sure, they don't guide you through every little thing they do, but there is a lot in this manga that you don't see. After all, they travel by ship to each island which gives them plenty of time to do stuff. Also, they explain the more powerful abilities such as Gear 2 (Luffy was thinking on this when he was utterly defeated by Aokiji and made critical observations when he faced CP9 for the first time). Luffy has always been shown to adapt his fighting style to the situation he's in, which is why you see a lot of situational moves (Water Luffy, Octopus, Tonkachi rifle, etc). Plus, most of these guys were professionally trained before the current story even started, so they may not show every move and may get ideas through experience.

And the thing with Nami and Chopper, well I don't know why you think Nami has gotten weaker. She's improved a lot with the Perfect Clima-Tact, but the Straw Hats as a whole have recently been hitting a brick wall. This is why techniques like the Rumble Ball and other techniques aren't as effective as they once were. There's a big difference between Gedatsu and Kumadori. This is why they need to further develop themselves in preparation for the New World.



Now this is a new one.
Luffy strecthing underwater is nothing close to Deus Ex Machina. It's simply you misunderstanding the Devil Fruit weakness. Devil Fruit users become hammers while submerged in water. Meaning, they can do nothing themselves. HOWEVER, if the user is a Paramecia, their powers are still on since all Paramecia types have their bodies physically altered. Meaning Luffy is rubber 100% of the time, even when submerged in water. However, he just can't move himself. That's the difference between logia's and zoans because they two latter can turn their power on and off whenver they want.
The Going Merry just did what Usopp does. Mend the problems, not fix them. And Nightmare Luffy was using Moria's power against him with the help of others. And it didn't come out of the blue since we were right there when he found out about the power up. So no. No cop outs.



No....no, not really. Then again, for any and all stories you could make a simple plotline and say they're all the same. However, what you have here does not even follow the prescribed events that usually happen. Not everyone gets a fight. Not everyone fights the leader. Luffy isn't always removed. Deus ex machina, no.



Filler? OK, here's the big difference between One Piece and some other manga. It's a living, breathing world. While some other manga focus specifically on their group of heroes and occassionally some others, in One Piece the Straw Hat pirates aren't the center of the Universe. Only one part of it. All of the other groups have their places in the story and help create the feeling that this world continues on outside the existence of the Straw Hats.

To go to what you pointed out you have as follows.

Did we need Sanji going through the other CP agents? Well, seeing as how they were all guarding Robin from him why wouldn't we see it? We already know that Sanji is extra protective over the female members.

The Tenryubuto are the descendants of the people who created the World Government. The same World Government that the Straw Hat pirates declared war on and are constantly butting heads on. The same World Government that destroyed Ohara for learning too much, especially about the Void Century which is also the same island that Robin comes from (and let us not forget Robin's ultimate dream). The same World Government that the Revolutionaries are fighting, which is the same Revolutionary group that Dragon is leading. See how it's important now?

And you have a problem with pirate groups? I don't even understand this. From the start, it was called the Great Pirate Age. It'd be immensely disappointed if there weren't other pirate groups. They breathe more life into the world of One Piece and add rich characters. I truly don't understand this gripe. If it was just Luffy and his group, what kind of Pirate era would that be? Not to mention we wouldn't have so many important character developments and interesting characters adding to the story.

Shichibukai are pirates that the World Government needs to help the Marines balance the Yonkou. The Admirals the Marines greatest attack force. The Goresei are the World Government essentially, and give direct orders to the Marines and the Shichibukai. The Supernova aren't a group, just the name of all of the new rookies. I thought it great that the Straw Hats weren't the only new guys gunning for the great treasure of Gol D. Roger.

So I really see nothing wrong with what you mention as problems. Most of it is just misunderstanding and trivialization of the importance of the many things that happen in One Piece. All of the characters add to the rich story. All of the organizations make One Piece a real world. The power ups aren't as random as you think and generally have explanations or foreshadowing or both.

So there, I hope this helps you out.

Awesome.
+ You said it all in a language that Jihad can understand.

Hopefully, he/she feels defeated by you. :amuse

@ kirthiabcd: You seem all worked up.. =(
Don't get worked over this thread.

..Jihad is obviously trying to force his opinion on us as a fact.

[-Ender-]

go pacifista :zaru

[αshɘs]

Win post right there Pacifista!:party +rep

[hisoga]

I'll cut straight to your points.



This is highly overrated. Plenty of people have died in One Piece. Plenty. This includes many of Kuro's crew, 5000 of Kriegs crew by Mihawk and a few others by Krieg himself, Bellemere, the Marine Captain and his crew that went to stop Arlong, 100 bounty hunters at Whiskey Peak thay Zoro did himself, the Pig Pirates by Crocodile, probably Bellamy by Doflamingo, over 500 people by Enel and the list goes on and on.



This is also highly overrated. The get stronger after every arc due to their experience and they get stronger that way. Sure, they don't guide you through every little thing they do, but there is a lot in this manga that you don't see. After all, they travel by ship to each island which gives them plenty of time to do stuff. Also, they explain the more powerful abilities such as Gear 2 (Luffy was thinking on this when he was utterly defeated by Aokiji and made critical observations when he faced CP9 for the first time). Luffy has always been shown to adapt his fighting style to the situation he's in, which is why you see a lot of situational moves (Water Luffy, Octopus, Tonkachi rifle, etc). Plus, most of these guys were professionally trained before the current story even started, so they may not show every move and may get ideas through experience.

And the thing with Nami and Chopper, well I don't know why you think Nami has gotten weaker. She's improved a lot with the Perfect Clima-Tact, but the Straw Hats as a whole have recently been hitting a brick wall. This is why techniques like the Rumble Ball and other techniques aren't as effective as they once were. There's a big difference between Gedatsu and Kumadori. This is why they need to further develop themselves in preparation for the New World.



Now this is a new one.
Luffy strecthing underwater is nothing close to Deus Ex Machina. It's simply you misunderstanding the Devil Fruit weakness. Devil Fruit users become hammers while submerged in water. Meaning, they can do nothing themselves. HOWEVER, if the user is a Paramecia, their powers are still on since all Paramecia types have their bodies physically altered. Meaning Luffy is rubber 100% of the time, even when submerged in water. However, he just can't move himself. That's the difference between logia's and zoans because they two latter can turn their power on and off whenver they want.
The Going Merry just did what Usopp does. Mend the problems, not fix them. And Nightmare Luffy was using Moria's power against him with the help of others. And it didn't come out of the blue since we were right there when he found out about the power up. So no. No cop outs.



No....no, not really. Then again, for any and all stories you could make a simple plotline and say they're all the same. However, what you have here does not even follow the prescribed events that usually happen. Not everyone gets a fight. Not everyone fights the leader. Luffy isn't always removed. Deus ex machina, no.



Filler? OK, here's the big difference between One Piece and some other manga. It's a living, breathing world. While some other manga focus specifically on their group of heroes and occassionally some others, in One Piece the Straw Hat pirates aren't the center of the Universe. Only one part of it. All of the other groups have their places in the story and help create the feeling that this world continues on outside the existence of the Straw Hats.

To go to what you pointed out you have as follows.

Did we need Sanji going through the other CP agents? Well, seeing as how they were all guarding Robin from him why wouldn't we see it? We already know that Sanji is extra protective over the female members.

The Tenryubuto are the descendants of the people who created the World Government. The same World Government that the Straw Hat pirates declared war on and are constantly butting heads on. The same World Government that destroyed Ohara for learning too much, especially about the Void Century which is also the same island that Robin comes from (and let us not forget Robin's ultimate dream). The same World Government that the Revolutionaries are fighting, which is the same Revolutionary group that Dragon is leading. See how it's important now?

And you have a problem with pirate groups? I don't even understand this. From the start, it was called the Great Pirate Age. It'd be immensely disappointed if there weren't other pirate groups. They breathe more life into the world of One Piece and add rich characters. I truly don't understand this gripe. If it was just Luffy and his group, what kind of Pirate era would that be? Not to mention we wouldn't have so many important character developments and interesting characters adding to the story.

Shichibukai are pirates that the World Government needs to help the Marines balance the Yonkou. The Admirals are the Marines greatest attack force. The Goresei are the World Government essentially, and give direct orders to the Marines and the Shichibukai. The Supernova aren't a group, just the name of all of the new rookies. I thought it great that the Straw Hats weren't the only new guys gunning for the great treasure of Gol D. Roger.

So I really see nothing wrong with what you mentioned as problems. Most of it is just misunderstanding and trivialization of the importance of the many things that happen in One Piece. All of the characters add to the rich story. All of the organizations make One Piece a real world. The power ups aren't as random as you think and generally have explanations or foreshadowing or both.

So there, I hope this helps you out.

thank you sir.....:cry

[wiplok]

This thread's starter failz

[Trick2]

wow...you don't get the point of the ship having a soul....
In one piece, ships having souls if it receives good care from its owners is a legend that sailors and shipwrights are familiar with much like how there are legends about mermaids etc. that sailors talk about in real life.

And Luffy does come up with his moves spontaneously...remember the pinwheel move from Arlong Arc??? and as Pacisfista said, he came up with Gear 2 and 3 after being whooped by Aokiji. Its probably just me but I think that Luffy followed Crocodile's advice about training your DF to its fullest potential...well its not an advice but you get the idea lol

[helihound]

I really have nothing to say at people who think one piece has a high philosophical value and no the thread starter does not fail just simply surrounded by closed minded people who refuse believe anything but their own views.

[gohan10]

^ He may not fail, but based on his OP, he does seem to have bad reading comprehension.

[Muah]

I really have nothing to say at people who think one piece has a high philosophical value and no the thread starter does not fail just simply surrounded by closed minded people who refuse believe anything but their own views.

Unless you can argue on why its not a philosophical enriched manga you will be dismissed. You just keep going "of course it isn't" even when ppl slap you in the face with facts that say it is.

We're closedminded!?

*Does a Boa Hancock type looking down*

[SogeQueen]

One Piece isn't realistic.
Lol, I don't think it tries to be.

[helihound]

Unless you can argue on why its not a philosophical enriched manga you will be dismissed. You just keep going "of course it isn't" even when ppl slap you in the face with facts that say it is.

We're closedminded!?

*Does a Boa Hancock type looking down*

Nooo its you who can't read i said a HIGH value.... one piece has many philosophical values i just don't THINK they are a HIGH value now relax yourself and people don't slap me in the face with facts get over that delusion I don't feel like posting anymore after this anyways.
Also, i am not bashing one piece just incase you think i am it is a great series and i enjoy it very much i simply stated my OPINION above im sorry if you don't agree i just differ from you thats all :D. Toodles

[Muah]

Bored now.

[SogeQueen]

After skimming through this thread, it really has reaffirmed for me that some people on this forum take manga far too seriously. I'm sure most of us can admit that One Piece has its flaws, but some people are going to love it nonetheless. The 'flaws' mentioned by the OP don't bother me enough to reduce my enjoyment of the series, and this might very well be the case for many other fans as well.

[Supreme Alchemist Fan]

Not liking a series as much as most people because Crocodile and all the villians don't die is pretty silly. How would the series be better if say Luffy gomu gomu no'd Crocodile to death through the bedrock?

[The Doctor]

one piece is a philosophical enriched manga :O

[Gain]

fail piece

[p-lou]

philosophical piece

[The Doctor]

one piece is like principles of philosophy

but in comic book format

[p-lou]

tb

did one piece teach you about dualism?

[Gain]

one piece taught me how to count

and read the alphabet

and make connections with my nakama

[The Doctor]

from dualism to existentialism

it teaches you all

[The Doctor]

am i your nakama gayn?

[XMURADX]

^ He may not fail, but based on his OP, he does seem to have bad reading comprehension.

Extremely bad reading comprehension. Most of his points are seriously laughable, he just creates a problem out of nothing.

[Cerō]

One Piece has many problems that fans just aren't willing to admit to anyone nor themselves.

They've only gotten worst, especially with the recent shitty arcs.

[Whimsy]

It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.
It's fiction.

[hisoga]

i don't understand.... this thread is about "one piece suck" or "one piece fan suck"??? i feel like more toward bashing one piece fan...

and why must only in one piece avenue this kind of thread exist? why don't naruto forum has a thread call " Problem with Naruto" or "problem with narutard" and "problem with bleach" in bleach avenue"???

why can't you guy hater leave one piece alone???

why can't you guy read comic/manga or watch anime to enjoy rather than to find a mistake, a flaw in that particular manga/comic/anime??? i don't understand how you guy can waste your lifetime try to read 500 chapter of manga or watching 400 eisode of anime just so you can find/list a point to bash that manga/anime and its fans.... don't you guy have a life???

if one piece is not for you why bother trying to read it or watching it?? there are tons of other manga/ anime out there...

[Megatonton]

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.


Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

Note: We are not even going to bring up Haki in relation to this...


Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials ), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)

Nobody Dies - I believe it was stated somewhere that the reason why Oda does not easily kill characters is that it's a better 'death' for his antagonists when their dreams are shattered. Not too hardcore to some people, but that's sort of the soft side of One Piece.

Besides, some of these antagonists are reinvented, reintroduced etc. Considering that Oda has that many characters, he makes it a point to bring them back again, give a few spotlights on their characters, and then has the fans speculating about that certain character. Probably the reason why even the somewhat obscure villains still has a following.

Random Power-Ups (and power downs) - I might give you this point, and I'll admit, even I have a hard time understanding what trumps what, but it is the One Piece absurdity shining through here. Considering what powers their antagonists have compared to the Strawhats, there should be at least a reason, no matter how absurd, that this protagonist with the power of... stretching can stand up to a being that can manipulate and is lightning.

Too Much Deus Ex Machina - Yet again, a fault on the author, not tying up the loose ends and indeed sometimes is pointed out by the fans of the work itself. I could argue One Piece's absurdity, but it is still a point to the former.

Exact same story/plot - You could argue this, and the OP people can easily argue the same on just about any other shounen manga. The genre, no matter how different they are, progresses on about the same plotlines, but this also the reason why I love OP more. Even though you already know the heroes will win the fight, it is in the manner of which Oda raises the climax of the arc that makes it nothing but the most exciting of the shounens that I read. Naruto just fails to deliver this type of 'OMG did he just do that' moments during Part II, or at least for the most part.

Too Many Groups - You can't exactly send the protagonists on an empty island. The theme of One Piece seems to revolve around crews and nakamas, that's the reason you won't easily see a lone wolf in OP world. Even the most powerful pirates (Dragon and WB) has a crew of their own, in case of the old man, an entire fleet! Consider that, and still Oda manages to give some of these 'filler' characters a background, a crazy power (crazy as in... really bizarre as opposed to Power Level crazy) and a dream.

So yeah, it's not perfect. But at least it makes my blood boil with excitement each and every week. I love OP.

[RockyDJ]

Why do you all disagree? why cant OP also have its bad things? OP is NOT perfect

Well i like OP but i also could critize it

For example Zorro - its always the same:

He has a battle and is extreme gar, has some new random powerups anfd defeats the villain

but he gets deep wounds

so the next battle will be all like "oh noez zorro you have to deep wounds you cant fight!!!!" but zorro can, his wound opens but he defeats the villain...

Well now i know 1000 tards will neg me because i critized zorro... But hey one piece has just one problem: its tards

OP may be the best of the 3 long mangas but its just a question of taste

to say everyone who prefers naruto to OP has a bad taste and to say OP has no mistakes is just pure bullshit

Its a great manga but NOTHING is perfect

[Muah]

I like the way bleach kills ppl but Naruto is really gay with it's deaths.

Alot of ppl die in One Piece!

Only reason Croc and Enel and Buggy lived are becuase there epic. I guess bellamy didn't have a strong enuf will plus he was one shotted so of course Luffy didn't kill him.

[RED MINOTAUR~!]

I just thought the opening poster should know that One Piece is now roughly halfway through it's plot, if progressive interviews with Oda are to be acknowledged.

The constant everyplot that introduced Franky, Brook, Robin, Chopper etc etc has now gone with the Impel Down and Marineford arcs. I don't see them going with that plot ever again now in all honesty.

Deus Ex Machinas are rife in all manga because not all mangaka are expert writers. They happen in Bleach, they happen in Naruto, and all other big series and no one has a problem with it because it allows things to be unpredictable.

Concerning random powerups and such, I've no real problem with it. It's nice to see characters do something new every fight instead of Rasengan/Kage Bunshin and Getsuga Tenshou spammage.

Finally, concerning the large cast... so what? It's the reason I got into One Piece in the first place. Each arc brings in a new pirate crew who all get their own little spotlight and 15 minutes of fame, some are brought back and some are not. It works. Every character does something and may continue to do something long into the series. Whilst I hate to bring up Naruto and Bleach once more, there are less characters combined in those two series than there are in One Piece, and they all get ditched for fanservicing the main characters into nearly every panel. One Piece has such a diverse, useful and likeable cast.

[ObscureCosmos]

the thread starter does not fail just simply surrounded by closed minded people who refuse believe anything but their own views.

Are you kidding me?

You must be fucking kidding me.

People like you don't even deserve to be proved wrong.

[typhoon72]

I really have nothing to say at people who think one piece has a high philosophical value and no the thread starter does not fail just simply surrounded by closed minded people who refuse believe anything but their own views.

Im pretty sure thats EXACTLY what the thread starter is doing as well :oh

But you probably already know this and just being biased because you dont like OP http://i27.tinypic.com/2z8z3w2.gif

[Pacifista]

Why do you all disagree? why cant OP also have its bad things? OP is NOT perfect


Why do I disagree? Because my mind tells me differently, that's why. It tells me that the points he made really aren't points and nowhere have I said that One Piece is perfect. But the things that he pointed out as bad such as having different groups that add variety and a poorly put together reason why there are deus ex machinas when we see why someone gets a power up does not constitute as bad writing or any of that.

Plus, your thrown together "criticism" is barely a point as well. You can substitute just about any character or thing for your slot of Zoro and you get the same thing.

Let me demonstrate:


For example Gokku - its always the same:

He has a battle and is extreme gar, has some new random powerups anfd defeats the villain

but he gets deep wounds

so the next battle will be all like "oh noez gokku you have to deep wounds you cant fight!!!!" but gokku can, his wound opens but he defeats the villain...

Or...

For example Narruto - its always the same:

He has a battle and is extreme gar, has some new random powerups anfd defeats the villain

but he gets deep wounds

so the next battle will be all like "oh noez narruto you have to deep wounds you cant fight!!!!" but narruto can, his wound opens but he defeats the villain...

Heck, even...

For example the American Revolution- its always the same:

He has a battle and is extreme gar, has some new random powerups anfd defeats the villain

but he gets deep wounds

so the next battle will be all like "oh noez America you have to deep wounds you cant fight!!!!" but America can, his wound opens but he defeats the villain...


You see what I'm getting at here? It's fine if you don't like it. That's your prerogative. But a person who challenges others on the subject will have to have something a little more convincing than poorly put together points that are flat out wrong. And I'm not saying this to try and inflame anyone either. If I have offended you, I apologize, but I'm just stating what I see.

If people would like to continue to discuss this with the ability to elaborate, take in info and give it back out then that'd be fine. After all, what are we here on the forum for?

[Muah]

Seem like there are some really intelligent ppl here, good job Pacifist I wish I could verbalize myself like that.

We're all saying the same thing it seems. One Piece may have flaws but there sure weren't in the op's op. Hell and there's no one here to argue these flaws but instead just insult anyone who doesn't agree.

Conclusion:

Im obviously closed minded.:P

[Jihad Uzamaki]

This is highly overrated. Plenty of people have died in One Piece. Plenty. This includes many of Kuro's crew, 5000 of Kriegs crew by Mihawk and a few others by Krieg himself, Bellemere, the Marine Captain and his crew that went to stop Arlong, 100 bounty hunters at Whiskey Peak thay Zoro did himself, the Pig Pirates by Crocodile, probably Bellamy by Doflamingo, over 500 people by Enel and the list goes on and on.

First, I cleared this up in a previous post (which I assume you didn't read, seeing as you took my OP post), but NO ONE IMPORTANT DIES. In fact, no actual named character in the on-going story line has died. I am not talking about FLASHBACKS or FODDER. I am talking about people like Pell (who was blown up and dropped from the sky), Ingram (sp) (who was also blown up), Mr. 1, Don Krieg, Crocodile (who was unconcious and buried under rubble), Sodom (the kingbull who was SHOT IN THE HEART) or a host of other people who should honestly be dead right now.

Secondly, death is not overrated in the slightest. Death is a part of life, and when you are talking about pirates, you are not talking about nice people. Clearly, in ever OP fight, the enemy is looking to KILL the straw hats, not "defeat their dream." Furthermore, how are you capable of reading a fight with no tension? When the actual plot shield is over ALL the characters, then how can you consider ANYBODY a threat? Where is the inherent tension between the characters when they are in conflict? Furthermore, when death is trivialized such as in the Arabasta arc (see above), how can we (as a reader) take sacrifice seriously? The Mangeka has already shown us that there is no way he will kill anyone, so by default we know EVERYONE, friend or foe, will be safe. That is not good writing-- its a copout.

This is also highly overrated. The get stronger after every arc due to their experience and they get stronger that way. Sure, they don't guide you through every little thing they do, but there is a lot in this manga that you don't see. After all, they travel by ship to each island which gives them plenty of time to do stuff. Also, they explain the more powerful abilities such as Gear 2 (Luffy was thinking on this when he was utterly defeated by Aokiji and made critical observations when he faced CP9 for the first time). Luffy has always been shown to adapt his fighting style to the situation he's in, which is why you see a lot of situational moves (Water Luffy, Octopus, Tonkachi rifle, etc). Plus, most of these guys were professionally trained before the current story even started, so they may not show every move and may get ideas through experience.

Stronger with experience and GAINING new techniques are two completely different things. Luffy using variations on his Gomu Gomu moves is fine-- Crocodile told him about "mastering" his fruit, so it makes sense that from that fight on he may do something different with his attacks. In addition, we have enough information on Luffy to know that he is inventive in his fighting.

As I said, it is understandable that Zoro has variations on his sword techniques; We at least KNOW he is training and improving. The Gears, however, are completely different. Luffy says clearly that he was thinking on "how he could protect his weak nakama," not developing a move. I can see if they showed him going "thats how they do it!" or something to that effect, but essentially pulling not ONE, but TWO power-ups out of his ass, particularly when he didn't know what Soru was and have never seen it prior to that night is ridiculous. Same with Sanji. Diable Jambe can out with no warning, no explanation, and the only thing I have read in the 6 pages of whining and complaining is that I should just "accept it"...:oh Why should I accept it? It reeks of bad writing, and if this were any other manga (from Bleach to Naruto to Dragonball fucking Z) you wouldn't HESITATE to call out the mangeka.

And the thing with Nami and Chopper, well I don't know why you think Nami has gotten weaker. She's improved a lot with the Perfect Clima-Tact, but the Straw Hats as a whole have recently been hitting a brick wall. This is why techniques like the Rumble Ball and other techniques aren't as effective as they once were. There's a big difference between Gedatsu and Kumadori. This is why they need to further develop themselves in preparation for the New World.

Think back to when Nami and Chopper were introduced; they were introduced as well-rounded thinkers and fighters, especially chopper. Chopper was completely bad ass when he used Rumble Ball for the first time, and subsequent uses of rumble ball only showed his resourcefulness, intelligence, and strength. Nami was shown in battle with a lot more self-confidence then she has now, and while yes, her WEAPON has improved, but Nami herself hasn't as much. While this rant doesn't really apply to Nami as much (she is just the navigator after all), this definitely applies to Chopper.

Also, I have an understanding about the power levels rising, and I know the "battle" with Kuma was supposed to show how the SH are not quite ready for the New World, but to simply ignore how certain character's have marginalized or "de-powered" shows a lack of appreciation for that character. I would rather have Oda have their "weak" from the beginning, but to introduce the character at a high level, and then move them back is a problem IMO.


Now this is a new one.
Luffy strecthing underwater is nothing close to Deus Ex Machina. It's simply you misunderstanding the Devil Fruit weakness. Devil Fruit users become hammers while submerged in water. Meaning, they can do nothing themselves. HOWEVER, if the user is a Paramecia, their powers are still on since all Paramecia types have their bodies physically altered. Meaning Luffy is rubber 100% of the time, even when submerged in water. However, he just can't move himself. That's the difference between logia's and zoans because they two latter can turn their power on and off whenver they want.
The Going Merry just did what Usopp does. Mend the problems, not fix them. And Nightmare Luffy was using Moria's power against him with the help of others. And it didn't come out of the blue since we were right there when he found out about the power up. So no. No cop outs.

Deus Ex Machina: a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty. It is generally considered to be poor storytelling technique

Question- If Seastone (which mimics the power of the sea) prevents Devil Fruit users from using their powers, why would it stop a paramecia from continuing to use their power if their body is altered? By your logic, Luffy should have been able to "stretch" while he was in the seastone cage at Rainbase; am I correct? So, if Seastone stops this, how does Luffy being COMPLETELY SUBMERGED in Sea water differentiate from this?

Answer- It doesn't-- this makes it a deus ex machina. Its a plot device, plain and simple.

Question: Chopper tore the MAST off the Going Merry and threw it into the white white sea (which had no bottom, natch) while it was on fire, did he not? Chopper then JUMPED into said white white sea, was rendered unconcious, and then "saved" by a bunch of south birds (this in itself is a Deus Ex Machina, considering that the south bird they captured kept trying to kill them, escaped, and had no obvious reason for calling on another south bird to save chopper, but I digress). How did A) the mast get recovered? and B) the "ship" (an inanimate object, but for the sake of the story, lets play your game) recover the mast and have the materials in place (you know, the big piece of metal strippings used to keep the mast in place) to fix the mast?

Answer: Neither happens-- The mast should have sunk, chopper should be dead, and the Going Merry should be a monument in skypeia. Its another plot device, another Deus Ex Machina, simple as that.

Question- If these pirates were capable of putting a SHADOW into their own bodies, why were they unable to do this in order to aid the recovery of their OWN shadows? it was obvious that adding one or two shadows greatly increased your strength, and that would have been all they needed in order to get their own shadow back-- am I correct in this assumption (this is going off the power Luffy gained with just one or two shadows)? Furthermore, why didn't they offer this ability to Brooke? Why was Moria not aware of this possibility?

Answer- The author (once again) painted himself into a corner, and used a plot device that was completely nonsensical in order to further along his story, no matter what it looks like.

These are just some of the Deus Ex Machina found in this manga; It doesn't include the lightning bolt (which came with no warning, nor indication that a storm was a brewing) which freed Luffy in Loguetown, or Dragon showing up to save him from Smoker (how the hell did Dragon know he was even in Loguetown?), or the bubble which saved him from crocodile, or the Going Merry, broken down, inexplicably travelling WITHOUT a navigator (or a crew for that matter) from Water 7 to the Gates of Justice just in the nick of time to save the surrounded, exhausted SH from certain doom? Oh, did I forget to mention that this Going Merry traveled during the WORST Aqua Laguna Water 7 had ever seen? The same Aqua Laguna that not even a WARSHIP could travel through (the words of Paulie)? Can you seriously, with a straight face, deny this? How does that make sense, even in the realm of this manga?

No....no, not really. Then again, for any and all stories you could make a simple plotline and say they're all the same. However, what you have here does not even follow the prescribed events that usually happen. Not everyone gets a fight. Not everyone fights the leader. Luffy isn't always removed. Deus ex machina, no.

Yes it does, I broke down EVERY arc in this manga in a previous post; I won't be doing it again, but you are free to check out that post for more info. Secondly, I also said that the TEMPLATE is mostly the same; there may be some variations, but UP UNTIL THE CURRENT ARC, the template I put up was followed damn near to the letter. Does everyone get a fight? Does Luffy get removed somehow? Not always; However, it does happen a LARGE MAJORITY of the time, and to deny this is shortsighted, and simply untrue.

Filler? OK, here's the big difference between One Piece and some other manga. It's a living, breathing world. While some other manga focus specifically on their group of heroes and occassionally some others, in One Piece the Straw Hat pirates aren't the center of the Universe. Only one part of it. All of the other groups have their places in the story and help create the feeling that this world continues on outside the existence of the Straw Hats.

First off all, your entire argument centers on the fact that OP is a large world-- I never denied this, nor did I disagree with this. Secondly, the SH ARE the center of the the OP universe. We don't follow multiple groups of pirates; we follow the SH and Luffy's quest to become the Pirate King--anything else is fallacy. However, when characters are introduced for no true reason except to "occupy" a main character, then that character is unimportant to the story, and is therefore "filler". The first 4 members of CP9 were important to the story-- why were Kumadori, Jybura, etc important? The answer is simple-- to provide fights for the rest of the SHs; they provided no new insight to actual story. This goes for the rest of the CPs on the Puffing Tom, the whole "bullet train" chase, Nero, etc. Lets not talk about Foxy and the Davy Back Arc...

My point was that the sheer amount of "filler" moments in this manga is a direct result of this character creep. These characters help "fill out" the universe, but they are essentially unimportant to the story, and their purpose is to provide length to this manga.

To go to what you pointed out you have as follows.

Did we need Sanji going through the other CP agents? Well, seeing as how they were all guarding Robin from him why wouldn't we see it? We already know that Sanji is extra protective over the female members.

The question is why did there need to be additional CP agents at all? Where were they the entire time? Why were they important? The answer is no. You will never see the "Ramen Kempo chef" again; he is completely irrelevent to the story, just like the "super tall yoga boxer," the "swordsman," etc. These "fights" were simply an excuse to add additional chapters to the story, nothing more.

The Tenryubuto are the descendants of the people who created the World Government. The same World Government that the Straw Hat pirates declared war on and are constantly butting heads on. The same World Government that destroyed Ohara for learning too much, especially about the Void Century which is also the same island that Robin comes from (and let us not forget Robin's ultimate dream). The same World Government that the Revolutionaries are fighting, which is the same Revolutionary group that Dragon is leading. See how it's important now?

Sigh. I never said they weren't important; I understand their story relevence, but do we really need to meet 3 or 4 different ones? You really only needed the one Luffy punched in the face to have an understanding of what they were about. Additional Tenryubuto are irrelevent, and they could have been a group mentioned but never actually seen. As it was, they were panel wasters in the current arc that could have focused on the supernovas, who are clearly going to come into play in the second half of OP.

And you have a problem with pirate groups? I don't even understand this. From the start, it was called the Great Pirate Age. It'd be immensely disappointed if there weren't other pirate groups. They breathe more life into the world of One Piece and add rich characters. I truly don't understand this gripe. If it was just Luffy and his group, what kind of Pirate era would that be? Not to mention we wouldn't have so many important character developments and interesting characters adding to the story.

I never said I had a problem with pirate groups--EVER. My point was why, if this is the great age of pirates (as you stated), is Oda introducing SOOOOOOO many characters, who, in the long run, will be irrelevant to Luffy's dream of becoming Pirate King? Isn't that what this story is about-- Luffy's goal?

Shichibukai are pirates that the World Government needs to help the Marines balance the Yonkou. The Admirals are the Marines greatest attack force. The Goresei are the World Government essentially, and give direct orders to the Marines and the Shichibukai. The Supernova aren't a group, just the name of all of the new rookies. I thought it great that the Straw Hats weren't the only new guys gunning for the great treasure of Gol D. Roger.

First, yes the supernovas are a "group"--they have been labeled and classified, and there was a criteria for being "accepted." In addition, I too like that there were other pirates on the Grand Line (Kidd is probably my favorite character right now, and I kinda want this war to be over to see what type of Arc Kidd and Luffy have)

Second, look at how many "groups" you just named--Shichibukai,WG,Marines,Admirals,Goresei, Yonkou... 6 different groups, with characters that all need to be examined for motiviation, characterization, etc. People like Doflamingo and Mihawk have been underdeveloped (relatively speaking), and Oda has already introduced at least 19 new characters (9 supernovas, 5 goresei, 3 Vice Admirals, 2 yonkou) that do not include all the characters JUST introduced in this arc (Magellan, Marco, Jozu, etc)!

Look, I am not saying this is a problem as in "its detrimental to the overall structure and storyline of the manga"... My point is that pacing wise, there is a such thing as a "cluttered" story, and right now, OP is (IMO) slowly approaching this cluttered degree.

So I really see nothing wrong with what you mentioned as problems. Most of it is just misunderstanding and trivialization of the importance of the many things that happen in One Piece. All of the characters add to the rich story. All of the organizations make One Piece a real world. The power ups aren't as random as you think and generally have explanations or foreshadowing or both.

So there, I hope this helps you out.

As you said, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I appreciate you taking the time to voice your concern for my opinions, and I hope you take the time to read and understand my rebuttals. As I have said (and repeated ad nauseum), I LIKE ONE PEICE!!! I just don't think it is perfect, and in my opinion, there are some things that are problematic.


Here is my response to Pacifista-

Here, I hope this helps you out :zaru

To people like the clown in my sig (thanks for making an idiot out of yourself), and other people who have neg repped me or provided no useful discussion, go hump your mothers or something. No Manga is perfect-- in fact, no piece of fiction is perfect. To deny though the existence of flaws, or in some way to degrade other people for wishing to engage in discussion of problems, be they perceived or real, just shows your true level of ignorance, lack of comprehension skills, and overall inability to function outside in society. Everyone has a right to critique a body or art, as long as that critique (in that person's mind) is valid and backed up by evidence, then it should be respected. That does not mean you need to agree with it, nor does it mean you have to accept it. All it means is that everyone has their own view of art, and they interpret it as they will.


Finally, it is laughable that people who most likely haven't even completed high school are questioning the comprehension skills of someone with a college degree in English. (insert whatever smiley you want here)


:zaru
JihaD

[Supreme Alchemist Fan]

You taking One Piece so seriously is probably why you can't enjoy it. Its a story about a rubber man trying to be pirate king. I don't want any realism or logic in my One Piece. That shit wouldn't work well with a series like this and would just be plain boring.

[ObscureCosmos]

Everyone has a right to critique a body or art, as long as that critique (in that person's mind) is valid and backed up by evidence, then it should be respected. That does not mean you need to agree with it, nor does it mean you have to accept it. All it means is that everyone has their own view of art, and they interpret it as they will.

Finally, it is laughable that people who most likely haven't even completed high school are questioning the comprehension skills of someone with a college degree in English. (insert whatever smiley you want here)

Who gives a shit about a college degree in English?

That doesn't change the fact that you're trying so hard to beat One Piece's obvious facts just by stating your opinions.

Also.
You're right about everyone having the right to an opinion/to criticize a body of art..and as long as that opinion is fair, it should be respected...
You're right that we shouldn't accept it if we don't want to.. So I guess I should have ignored you from the beginning.
I've pretty much been acting like a fool, just because I'm very easy to anger.

But you...

You, without noticing, are trying to sink in your own ideas as facts into us.
And because we are fans of One Piece, no matter how stupid we are or sound..
We know more about it than you ever will.

[Jihad Uzamaki]

You taking One Piece so seriously is probably why you can't enjoy it. Its a story about a rubber man trying to be pirate king. I don't want any realism or logic in my One Piece. That shit wouldn't work well with a series like this and would just be plain boring.

Why do people keep saying "I am not enjoying OP" or "I am taking it too seriously?" Because I have an opinion about it? I happen to enjoy OP quite a bit; I stated this in my OG post. I think OP is amazing-- I love the characters, the story, and the world Oda has created so far. I have simply voiced the problems I see with the manga, nothing more.


JihaD

[Supreme Alchemist Fan]

Why do people keep saying "I am not enjoying OP" or "I am taking it too seriously?" Because I have an opinion about it? I happen to enjoy OP quite a bit; I stated this in my OG post. I think OP is amazing-- I love the characters, the story, and the world Oda has created so far. I have simply voiced the problems I see with the manga, nothing more.


JihaD

Really? The tl;dr post made it seem like you were complaining.

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Really? The tl;dr post made it seem like you were complaining.

Wait a minute-

If I sit around and debate "tier lists," debate on what's going to happen next, or argue about who's stronger... I am fine; But, if I say "Hey, that's weird and doesn't make sense-- I wonder why no one else mentions it?" then I am an OP hater who dislikes the manga, makes up stuff, etc?

GTFO :zaru (not directed at you per se')


JihaD

[hisoga]

Why do I disagree? Because my mind tells me differently, that's why. It tells me that the points he made really aren't points and nowhere have I said that One Piece is perfect. But the things that he pointed out as bad such as having different groups that add variety and a poorly put together reason why there are deus ex machinas when we see why someone gets a power up does not constitute as bad writing or any of that.

Plus, your thrown together "criticism" is barely a point as well. You can substitute just about any character or thing for your slot of Zoro and you get the same thing.

Let me demonstrate:



Or...


Heck, even...



You see what I'm getting at here? It's fine if you don't like it. That's your prerogative. But a person who challenges others on the subject will have to have something a little more convincing than poorly put together points that are flat out wrong. And I'm not saying this to try and inflame anyone either. If I have offended you, I apologize, but I'm just stating what I see.

If people would like to continue to discuss this with the ability to elaborate, take in info and give it back out then that'd be fine. After all, what are we here on the forum for?

THANK YOU Pacifista!!!! :cry




and 1 question OP... you really like one piece do you??? seems like you know and understand so much about one piece... i'm serious when i ask you this...

[Jihad Uzamaki]

and 1 question OP... you really like one piece do you??? seems like you know and understand so much about one piece... i'm serious when i ask you this...

I like OP alot, or I wouldn't have bothered reading all the chapters and watching all the anime in order to catch up to it; that doesn't mean I don't have a right to an opinion, or to voice that opinion.

Thanks for asking...:zaru


JihaD

[gohan10]

Finally, it is laughable that people who most likely haven't even completed high school are questioning the comprehension skills of someone with a college degree in English. (insert whatever smiley you want here)
:zaru
JihaD

I dont know man, the whole deal with merry was stated pretty clearly, yet you seemed to have missed it.

[SageMaster]

I find it weird that some posters here say that Jihad is a OP basher or a troll when he has clearly stated that he likes One Piece and just thinks OP has some flaws, which is inevitable because no work of fiction is truly perfect.

Jihad, I hope this doesn't make you think ALL OP fans are like these. :)

[Gnome on Fire]

TL:DR at OP, sounds like you didn't pay enough attention to the story, and it seems like you just rushed your read if there's things that "made no sense" to you

[helpmenow316]

am not going to sit hear and read 3 pages...

but this is what i want to say....

One piece is one of my favorite storys. They have great characters and the storyline is getting better and better..
But yes there is problem just like every thing in the world...
but for this manga it works.

Death
i enjoy stories that people die in.. such as gantz and naruto (before timeskip)
The problem of death in a story is that how they use it in the story... In some books and movies.They use death as a way to get rid of an unneeded character.Someone that ether isnt usefully anymore or that they not sure how to use him anymore.. Or in naruto case they use it as a cheap way to motivate a character to become stronger..which gets old after a while.(am just using it as an example.)
After a while death gets boring and it gets pointless. Because it leave question of what would of happen if this person was alive..

If oda would of killed off his characters in the passed. He would of had to introduce new character during the ID arch..Instead of what they used..

So then they would of had to introduce new groups.which is something the original poster said he didn't enjoy...

The newer groups.. When you are sailing around the world any world even this world.. You will run in to groups of people you never knew before. Also every character that is brought up now.. has been shown in the passed ether off hand or not..

The entry of the grand line leads to different places. If you happen to take one route it makes senses that other groups would take other.. and how the new world entrance will funnel out.... then yes you will have a group of strong people in one area when you get to the end of it..

The world government and its hierarchic every world powers has it leaders.. Every country and type of leaders has a bloodline of the original founders..

This is impotent in this story because it been foreshadow that by the end of this story they will be a new government. and that the history of the pass will be reviled to the world.. which is a major subplot to this story.

island to island... problem and repeated plots.
Every story has repeated plots. unless if it s a one time shot... such as flcl gunslinger girl ellf inlied when they cry (i cant spell it in japan.) But if you notice those storys are really short... mangas like one piece naruto dragonball and such repeats the same story plot at one point or another because its a long story lines and it hard to not to introduce new characters or semi same plot time and time again....

also it kinda of saying that dragon ball and pokemon is repeating because of the repeating plots...

but in one piece its not really the same story time and time again.. it might have the same formula but it different story's and it shows how much the characters has grown and how they have gotten stronger...

the sea train sanji fighting cp's...
If you didnt notice this was one of the better fights.. Sanji fought almost single handedly in order to save robin.. Also if you notice the during the cook vs cook fight the ramon guy used those fire skates which foreshadowed sanji power up...

luffy gears.. He learned gear 2 when he saw and noticed how soru worked. He addapted his power in order to use it...He was thinking of ways to power himself up since the looooooong island story arch when the ice guy beat his ass ..

usop works on his weapons everytime he gets new stuff that he can added to it... with his personality i think it goes with out saying that he is working and trying to prefect servral other weapons off screen.. The same way he made nami's climate staff..

chopper and nami... They might act like cowards but that there fighting style.. the rumble balls hasnt lost there powers but the enemys has gotten stronger... which makes those point less effective... but i never like chopper that much.... so yeah...

nami isnt a person that fight main villains she take out the people who would just be annoying for the others to fight....

But if you havent noticed everyone in the crew has there perpus... like sanji said... to ussop.. He can do what he is good at to help and sanji will do what he is good at to help.. or something along those lines...

going marry...

he didnt repair himself by himself... all he did was shore himself in the ship grave yard... He cried out for help and iceberg came he did a simple patch job on him and let him go on his ways.... Going marry didnt last that long tho.. seeing that he broke mid sailing... which is something that can happen in the real world... how many time i have been driving my car.. something happen to it... that i cant fix with what i have ... gas or battery or something along those lines.. i talk to my car and beg it to get me to savety or to somewhere i can repair it.... Which works 9 time out of 10...


there are people out there that believes that inanimate objects if the right person is using it can get you a place save if you need it to be.. it ether they now how to make it work or that for some reason the object has some care for it owner... it one of the stronger points in the manga.. that a group of people treated something so well that it start to live...


Luffy stretches body under water.. oda even said just because someone loese the power to move in water and loses it powers.. but if a person body is forever change as in luffy being a rubber man he still is rubber so if someone stretchy him he will stretch.. which make sense..

nightmare luffy and the guys in the woods..
Even if they can use one or two shadows to fight the zombies it will do little to fight geko or the others.. because they are to weak... I think it has something to do with will power and ability or something to that effect... its is kinda of a comp out... but oh well which manga or comic book does something like it..


the silliness of one piece... oda wanted a way to fight that wont cause the reader to stress out during it... he wanted people to be relaxed during the fight... not just for kids but for every readers...


every story has it negatives to them... even the best has plot holes and such..it up to use as readers to make it a big deal... also it up to the read to choice if the negative out weight the positive ... its when the writer of the story loses interested or choice to be lazy with there story is when it truly suffers.. it has been shown that a few mangas out there has this problem...

Oda in this case isnt the problem... It shows that he really cares about his characters and his story that he really planned everything out. He knows how he wants the ending and he is having fun getting to that point... and everyone els who doesnt mind no death and little problems like that is having fun with that too....

over all one piece is one of the better Stories out there. Not just manga..

[ArtieBoy]

Hey guys I've been wondering all around the naruto forums looking for +reps and it seems to be as if alot you guys here is giving it out freely and i just want to be apart of that free reppin luv.

:kool :kool :kool

[ObscureCosmos]

:amazed http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeriousBusiness

[Firefist]

why cant people just accept other opinions?
This could've been a great topic where we could discuss about the problems each and everyone has with One Piece, yet you all just want to proove him that he's wrong.

[BadassTaisouIsBadass]

I find it weird that some posters here say that Jihad is a OP basher or a troll when he has clearly stated that he likes One Piece and just thinks OP has some flaws, which is inevitable because no work of fiction is truly perfect.

Jihad, I hope this doesn't make you think ALL OP fans are like these. :)

why cant people just accept other opinions?
This could've been a great topic where we could discuss about the problems each and everyone has with One Piece, yet you all just want to proove him that he's wrong.

I don't find it weird; the way he stated his opinions seems like he was trying to force it onto us as if they're the real deal. If he wanted to make good points, he should have specified instead of putting common ideas together and generalizing them.

What irks me more is that a few days ago, his sig contained words like "I have good reading comprehension" or something along those lines but he made senseless points like the Going Merry having a soul being a random DEM when it was already foreshadowed way back in Skypeia, or Moria's shadow powers not making any sense when this is supposed to be a fictional manga (surprise, surprise). Even my little 10-year old brother can tell and recall that Going Merry had his soul revealed in Skypeia and had Iceburg fix him on Water Seven when the ship appeared at the end of the Ennies Lobby arc (mind you, he was even the one who reminded about this whole "Klaubautermann" ordeal when I went "Holy shit, how did that fucking happen?" at the sight of Merry appearing out of nowhere in EL). Yeah, good reading comprehension my ass. :zaru

EDIT: Oh, yeah, just noticed this. He actually has a college degree in English? HOLY~ That's seriously questionable...

[abcd]

wat pissed me off is the fact that the scenes he mentioned are the ones i loved :C .... I liked the whole going merry thing, villians coming back later , big opverse with lot of charachters and good power ups without making cop outs like a 5 day training and suddenly becoming 10 times more powerful :C .... ... I loved water luffy, nightmare luffy and wax luffy .... I love each of those arcs which were same and different ... He took all that and said they were problems with one piece !! .....

Yeah the only problems i had were pell and some other guys surviving when they should be dead .... other than that i did not like the davy back arc ...and the thriller bark reminded me of scooby doo .... ... Its not like every one finds a manga flawless ... Its just that the pros outweigh the cons a lot to forget about then and just enjoy the story !! :C

[Lobolover]

The biggest problem that I personaly experienced Manga wise was Franky Familly and Galley La all surviving . It was a very emotional moment for Franky and while I am glad for the guy , it stil was a smirch on an awesome arc .

If ya have not finished the EL arc, do NOT read this .

[abcd]

The biggest problem that I personaly experienced Manga wise was Franky Familly and Galley La all surviving . It was a very emotional moment for Franky and while I am glad for the guy , it stil was a smirch on an awesome arc .

but it was foreshadowed when all thos soldiers did the same thing against luffy and the rope guy taking the den den mushi before being shot ......

[Lobolover]

Huh ? I meant after the bombardment, where not one of over 3000 soldiers (including the aparently large amount of soldiers evacuated from EL) thought of double checking .

[abcd]

Huh ? I meant after the bombardment, where not one of over 3000 soldiers (including the aparently large amount of soldiers evacuated from EL) thought of double checking .

yeah but the way they escaped was using ropes and the method was similar to the soldiers before ..... and it was kind of foreshadowed that they had a plan ... (atleast the rope guy )

[Supreme Alchemist Fan]

I can't read Impel Down with the shitty scanlations we were given. Same with Thriller Bark. I'd probably like the arcs more if the scanlations were quality.

[RivFader]

I can't read Impel Down with the shitty scanlations we were given. Same with Thriller Bark. I'd probably like the arcs more if the scanlations were quality.

NULL helps :zaru
But they want to stop scanlating after the speed up in the US :(

[Muah]

This thread is sad OP is a joke machine.

[Pacifista]

Hoho, you sound a bit angry. But I can see your frustration. You've been talking to many different people and all have different things to say. I'm sorry that I haven't gone through the entire thread, as that's something I usually do. So lets continue from here then.
:wink


First, I cleared this up in a previous post (which I assume you didn't read, seeing as you took my OP post), but NO ONE IMPORTANT DIES. In fact, no actual named character in the on-going story line has died. I am not talking about FLASHBACKS or FODDER. I am talking about people like Pell (who was blown up and dropped from the sky), Ingram (sp) (who was also blown up), Mr. 1, Don Krieg, Crocodile (who was unconcious and buried under rubble), Sodom (the kingbull who was SHOT IN THE HEART) or a host of other people who should honestly be dead right now.
While your frustration can be understood, I still don't see it as a large enormous problem. Sure, I would like Pell to be dead. But does this make the villain who did this any less evil? Does it make our heroes' accomplishment any greater? Does it really make or break the story? And by not killing everyone that shows up, you leave room for use of them later in the future. If you kill them, you can't have them come back. But the point is that I still don't see it as a large enormous thorn in any side.

Secondly, death is not overrated in the slightest. Death is a part of life, and when you are talking about pirates, you are not talking about nice people. Clearly, in ever OP fight, the enemy is looking to KILL the straw hats, not "defeat their dream." Furthermore, how are you capable of reading a fight with no tension? When the actual plot shield is over ALL the characters, then how can you consider ANYBODY a threat? Where is the inherent tension between the characters when they are in conflict? Furthermore, when death is trivialized such as in the Arabasta arc (see above), how can we (as a reader) take sacrifice seriously? The Mangeka has already shown us that there is no way he will kill anyone, so by default we know EVERYONE, friend or foe, will be safe. That is not good writing-- its a copout.
Indeed, death is a part of life, but as redundant as it sounds, life is a part of life. The villains are still quite nasty, and nothing has changed that. And just because a few folks like Pell have survived, that holds no bearing over tension to me. When I see the Straw Hats putting 150% into trying to protect each other from PX-1, Sentoumaru and Kuma I was on the edge of my seat. My thought process wasn't They're going to live so why do I care? It was Holy crap, how in the world are they going to get out of THIS one?!?!
And sacrifice has NEVER been trivialized. Vivi poured her heart and soul into stopping the rebellion, and with the Straw Hats help she did. But what was left? A broken kingdom, many dead, more wounded and a broken heart. The Straw Hats fought to the last and they all sacrificed. Just because none of them died, their sacrifice doesn't become a small matter.


Stronger with experience and GAINING new techniques are two completely different things. Luffy using variations on his Gomu Gomu moves is fine-- Crocodile told him about "mastering" his fruit, so it makes sense that from that fight on he may do something different with his attacks. In addition, we have enough information on Luffy to know that he is inventive in his fighting.
As I said, it is understandable that Zoro has variations on his sword techniques; We at least KNOW he is training and improving. The Gears, however, are completely different. Luffy says clearly that he was thinking on "how he could protect his weak nakama," not developing a move. I can see if they showed him going "thats how they do it!" or something to that effect, but essentially pulling not ONE, but TWO power-ups out of his ass, particularly when he didn't know what Soru was and have never seen it prior to that night is ridiculous. Same with Sanji. Diable Jambe can out with no warning, no explanation, and the only thing I have read in the 6 pages of whining and complaining is that I should just "accept it"...:oh Why should I accept it? It reeks of bad writing, and if this were any other manga (from Bleach to Naruto to Dragonball fucking Z) you wouldn't HESITATE to call out the mangeka.
For Luffy, I don't see the problem. For Sanji though, I can see how one would be confused. Truth is, Sanji, Luffy and Zoro were all trained fighters long before becoming Straw Hats. Sanji's may be explained in the future, but one thing is interesting about it. Wanze did pretty much the exact same thing as Diable Jambe in his fight, so although it hasn't been stated, it's possible Sanji took ques from a fellow cook. Of course, this is all just observation.
But Luffy's Gear 2 is not so much out of nowhere. He said he was thinking of a way to become stronger right? Then he said that he saw what they did when they did Soru. So he essentially put 2 and 2 together to create something new and different. 3 was his massive answer to a power increase, which was what he was thinking of again. Something to make him stronger, and it's only something that he can do.

Think back to when Nami and Chopper were introduced; they were introduced as well-rounded thinkers and fighters, especially chopper. Chopper was completely bad ass when he used Rumble Ball for the first time, and subsequent uses of rumble ball only showed his resourcefulness, intelligence, and strength. Nami was shown in battle with a lot more self-confidence then she has now, and while yes, her WEAPON has improved, but Nami herself hasn't as much. While this rant doesn't really apply to Nami as much (she is just the navigator after all), this definitely applies to Chopper.
Nami's confidence has risen. Remember in Alabasta when she tried the new weapon. She said how she felt like she couldn't add anything to the crew, but with this new weapon she can fight in a way that she knows how. Then speed up to Skypiea and she gains enough courage to even stand up to Enel, even though she knew she couldn't win. Fast forward some more and you see that she realizes that she MUST help Robin....but I see your focus is on Chopper, so let's go there.

Also, I have an understanding about the power levels rising, and I know the "battle" with Kuma was supposed to show how the SH are not quite ready for the New World, but to simply ignore how certain character's have marginalized or "de-powered" shows a lack of appreciation for that character. I would rather have Oda have their "weak" from the beginning, but to introduce the character at a high level, and then move them back is a problem IMO.
Well, if we look at it, Chopper has been having increasingly more trouble. In Drum Kingdom, he handily beat Chessmarimo and showed us what he can do. In Alabasta, he worked quite well with Usopp and in bringing down the Mr. 4/Miss Merry Christmas combo. But go to Skypiea and he barely made it. If Gedatsu was more competent, then he would have beaten Chopper quite easily. So although he was physically out matched, he used his brain to overcome Geadtsu's superior strength. But then you get to Kumadori. This guy has everything. Speed, strength and defense. Chopper tried everything he had, and it just wasn't enough. What Chopper needs is a more effective strategy. His normal rumble ball and routine simply won't cut it, so he simply needs to find a way to up the ante with the same awesome creativity that we know the good doctor has. We'll see it soon my friend. I think we ALL crave this for him, and the others.

Deus Ex Machina: a plot device in which a person or thing appears "out of the blue" to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty. It is generally considered to be poor storytelling technique
Question- If Seastone (which mimics the power of the sea) prevents Devil Fruit users from using their powers, why would it stop a paramecia from continuing to use their power if their body is altered? By your logic, Luffy should have been able to "stretch" while he was in the seastone cage at Rainbase; am I correct? So, if Seastone stops this, how does Luffy being COMPLETELY SUBMERGED in Sea water differentiate from this?
Answer- It doesn't-- this makes it a deus ex machina. Its a plot device, plain and simple.
It's not my logic, it comes from the manga. All Devil Fruit users become anchors when they are submerged. This means they can't move. The seastone acts as a solid form of the sea. This is why when Smoker put the seastone tip on Luffy, he can't move any more. His body can still stretch, since he is a paramecia, but he just can't move. So he could strecth in the cage, but that wouldn't have done anything because the only way out was through the bars which prohibited Luffy from doing anything effective.

Question: Chopper tore the MAST off the Going Merry and threw it into the white white sea (which had no bottom, natch) while it was on fire, did he not? Chopper then JUMPED into said white white sea, was rendered unconcious, and then "saved" by a bunch of south birds (this in itself is a Deus Ex Machina, considering that the south bird they captured kept trying to kill them, escaped, and had no obvious reason for calling on another south bird to save chopper, but I digress). How did A) the mast get recovered? and B) the "ship" (an inanimate object, but for the sake of the story, lets play your game) recover the mast and have the materials in place (you know, the big piece of metal strippings used to keep the mast in place) to fix the mast?
Answer: Neither happens-- The mast should have sunk, chopper should be dead, and the Going Merry should be a monument in skypeia. Its another plot device, another Deus Ex Machina, simple as that.
Well, the birds on Jaya were much different from the bird on Jaya. Those birds also went and followed Zoro around. But the about the ship, well Usopp saw the spirit of it "mending" the ship, but not fix. Eventually the ship died because all that was ever done to it was mending.

Question- If these pirates were capable of putting a SHADOW into their own bodies, why were they unable to do this in order to aid the recovery of their OWN shadows? it was obvious that adding one or two shadows greatly increased your strength, and that would have been all they needed in order to get their own shadow back-- am I correct in this assumption (this is going off the power Luffy gained with just one or two shadows)? Furthermore, why didn't they offer this ability to Brooke? Why was Moria not aware of this possibility?
Answer- The author (once again) painted himself into a corner, and used a plot device that was completely nonsensical in order to further along his story, no matter what it looks like.
Thing is, there is a massive difference between a Forest Pirate and an infamous rookie of 300 million berries that is Luffy. Luffy's strength, speed and durability so he was a prime candidate. Besides, the forest pirates already told us that they could only handle one shadow at a time, and two at most. With that, they would be luck enough to face a single General Zombie, but that's already giving them too much credit. They'd have to face hundreds of fodder zombie that are still incredibly strong physically, 100 General zombies, Moria's subordinates and then Moria himself. They had NO chance on their own. Besides, the shadow power up only lasts a minute, right? So they'd only have the strength to fight the zombies for one minute.
And I don't even think they met Brook. Remember, Thriller Bark is an island. Besides, Brook is several leagues below Luffy, so he wouldn't have been able to take the amount of shadows and it really wouldn't have helped him that much. As for Moria, it seems like no one has ever done this to him. He never thought of it. Not his fault. No one had ever had the real chance to use it against him until that moment. He understands the principle, he was just taken by surprise.
So Oda didn't paint himself in a corner. Everything was shown and explained with that. The Forest Pirates said they could only take two at the most, the power up lasted for a limited time, and the best they could do was just round up some shadows over the years.
These are just some of the Deus Ex Machina found in this manga; It doesn't include the lightning bolt (which came with no warning, nor indication that a storm was a brewing) which freed Luffy in Loguetown, or Dragon showing up to save him from Smoker (how the hell did Dragon know he was even in Loguetown?), or the bubble which saved him from crocodile, or the Going Merry, broken down, inexplicably travelling WITHOUT a navigator (or a crew for that matter) from Water 7 to the Gates of Justice just in the nick of time to save the surrounded, exhausted SH from certain doom? Oh, did I forget to mention that this Going Merry traveled during the WORST Aqua Laguna Water 7 had ever seen? The same Aqua Laguna that not even a WARSHIP could travel through (the words of Paulie)? Can you seriously, with a straight face, deny this? How does that make sense, even in the realm of this manga?
Now we know that Dragon is Luffy's father. So it's not so surprising to know that his father was watching over him. And what happened at Loguetown is still a mystery. That lightning bolt was probably from Dragon. We have NO idea what he can do, so until we learn more about him that's up in the air. Remember, after Dragon stopped Smoker a mysterious blast of air blew Smoker away (bahaha) and Luffy was saved (unknowingly) by his father.
Those water bullets came from Luffy spitting them straight up.
http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000201/19.jpg
And as for Going Merry, it was explained that Merry had a spirit that helped at times. It did so at Skypiea, and did one last time. Not saying anyone has to like it, but that's the explanation given us.

Yes it does, I broke down EVERY arc in this manga in a previous post; I won't be doing it again, but you are free to check out that post for more info. Secondly, I also said that the TEMPLATE is mostly the same; there may be some variations, but UP UNTIL THE CURRENT ARC, the template I put up was followed damn near to the letter. Does everyone get a fight? Does Luffy get removed somehow? Not always; However, it does happen a LARGE MAJORITY of the time, and to deny this is shortsighted, and simply untrue.
But as I've said, you can break everything down into the same basic template. What makes everything different are the characters, places, interactions, expressions and story telling.


First off all, your entire argument centers on the fact that OP is a large world-- I never denied this, nor did I disagree with this. Secondly, the SH ARE the center of the the OP universe. We don't follow multiple groups of pirates; we follow the SH and Luffy's quest to become the Pirate King--anything else is fallacy. However, when characters are introduced for no true reason except to "occupy" a main character, then that character is unimportant to the story, and is therefore "filler". The first 4 members of CP9 were important to the story-- why were Kumadori, Jybura, etc important? The answer is simple-- to provide fights for the rest of the SHs; they provided no new insight to actual story. This goes for the rest of the CPs on the Puffing Tom, the whole "bullet train" chase, Nero, etc. Lets not talk about Foxy and the Davy Back Arc...
No, the Straw Hats aren't the center of the One Piece Universe. They're the center of the story that's being told here. Everyone does not revolve around the Straw Hats. They are simply an element in the world, but they are the focus of this manga.
As for CP9, we pretty much knew nothing about them, so finding out that there were more of them was not such a fill in move. All of CP9 was needed to close the deal on these HIGHLY prized deals (Robin and Franky). This is why you had all of the other Cipher Pol groups on the train. They were bodyguards. You wouldn't have expected them to leave their most prized possessions unguarded, right? But with the addition of the other members of CP9, we got several things.

For one, we learned more about the Devil Fruits from them. We learned that Dr. Vegapunk was doing extensive studying on them, letting weapons "eat" them. We learned that you can't eat two Devil Fruits, lest you explode without a trace left and we also learned a LOT about Robin's past and the significance of it since Spandam (and his line) were involved directly and indirectly to much of the horrible past of both Robin and Franky. Then, you have what the characters gained from fighting them. But it's also not always an arc that's big on flashy characters, but some times things can focus more on teamwork and building those character relationships.
.



My point was that the sheer amount of "filler" moments in this manga is a direct result of this character creep. These characters help "fill out" the universe, but they are essentially unimportant to the story, and their purpose is to provide length to this manga.

^See above.

The question is why did there need to be additional CP agents at all? Where were they the entire time? Why were they important? The answer is no. You will never see the "Ramen Kempo chef" again; he is completely irrelevent to the story, just like the "super tall yoga boxer," the "swordsman," etc. These "fights" were simply an excuse to add additional chapters to the story, nothing more.

Once again, they were bodyguards. They secured the prize and were protecting it. The answer as to why they weren't there the entire time is simple. You don't send an army into a covert operation. Lucci, Kaku, Blueno and Kalifa were undercover for years. Once they captured Nico Robin and Cutty Flam, they took them on the train and had all of the other agents and Marines protect it. I don't see why this is such an enormous problem. You don't automatically fight the people responsible. Luffy can't decide to knock out Lucci. He has to first get to where he is, and get through the defenses to fight him.


Sigh. I never said they weren't important; I understand their story relevence, but do we really need to meet 3 or 4 different ones? You really only needed the one Luffy punched in the face to have an understanding of what they were about. Additional Tenryubuto are irrelevent, and they could have been a group mentioned but never actually seen. As it was, they were panel wasters in the current arc that could have focused on the supernovas, who are clearly going to come into play in the second half of OP.

Why do we need to see that there is an entire family of disgusting, amoral people and not just one? It adds. If we only saw Charlos almost get killed by Zoro, shoot Hachi and then get owned by Luffy, would we really have understood who the Celestial Dragons were? Families usually stick together, and it was a great eye opener to see that these were the people that run the world. And Panel wasters? It's not like we had three chapters focused on them. The number of panels they were on is an extremely low number, and it's obvious that we'll see the Supernova's again. Oda obviously didn't show a lot of them so that we could have that mystery. Saobody just gave us a taste and showed us that Luffy was not the only new kid on the block.


I never said I had a problem with pirate groups--EVER. My point was why, if this is the great age of pirates (as you stated), is Oda introducing SOOOOOOO many characters, who, in the long run, will be irrelevant to Luffy's dream of becoming Pirate King? Isn't that what this story is about-- Luffy's goal?

No. It's not about Luffy's goal. This is something that I think people need to take special care in. One Piece is first and foremost an adventure manga. This is why there are so many characters, places and things going on. Luffy says it all the time. In fact, when the Straw Hats were speaking to Rayleigh, Usopp tried to get him to tell him where the One Piece was, Luffy IMMEADIATELY stopped him.

http://media.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/000066782/08.jpg

First, yes the supernovas are a "group"--they have been labeled and classified, and there was a criteria for being "accepted." In addition, I too like that there were other pirates on the Grand Line (Kidd is probably my favorite character right now, and I kinda want this war to be over to see what type of Arc Kidd and Luffy have)

OK, yes in that sense they are a group as others have labeled them as such. I was thinking of another definition. Sorry for the confusion.

Second, look at how many "groups" you just named--Shichibukai,WG,Marines,Admirals,Goresei, Yonkou... 6 different groups, with characters that all need to be examined for motiviation, characterization, etc. People like Doflamingo and Mihawk have been underdeveloped (relatively speaking), and Oda has already introduced at least 19 new characters (9 supernovas, 5 goresei, 3 Vice Admirals, 2 yonkou) that do not include all the characters JUST introduced in this arc (Magellan, Marco, Jozu, etc)!
Look, I am not saying this is a problem as in "its detrimental to the overall structure and storyline of the manga"... My point is that pacing wise, there is a such thing as a "cluttered" story, and right now, OP is (IMO) slowly approaching this cluttered degree.
Cluttered? Underdeveloped? Tell me. What if, in the first showing of Mihawk, we got his life's story and knew just how strong he was. What if we knew everything the World Government was hiding in the Void Century and why the world is the way it is now. We can't know everything now. Especially when those characters (Mihawk, Shanks, Doflamingo) have shown us that they will be extremely important people in the future, and especially when their place in the story is to come into play later.

I see it as exciting new developments and pathways to explore. To me, cluttered would be if we were in the war this week, but went to see what Zoro was doing for a chapter, but then went to see how Shanks was fighting Kaidou and why they were doing it, and then the week following would have a chapter back on Luffy, but the next the chapter would be all on Nami. Now, that would be cluttered. But this is all pretty organized and tidy. We know that we'll learn more about Mihawk, but now is not the time. Everything has it's time.




As you said, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I appreciate you taking the time to voice your concern for my opinions, and I hope you take the time to read and understand my rebuttals. As I have said (and repeated ad nauseum), I LIKE ONE PEICE!!! I just don't think it is perfect, and in my opinion, there are some things that are problematic.

No problem! And it's fine if you find problems here and there. The fact that you took the time to type them out here indicates that you would like a discussion on it, and so here I am. Once again, I apologize for not reading through the other four or so pages, as I normally do that.



Finally, it is laughable that people who most likely haven't even completed high school are questioning the comprehension skills of someone with a college degree in English. (insert whatever smiley you want here)

:zaru
JihaD

Well, in a serious note, we can all learn from anyone at any age. I'm not making a jab at you or anyone, but we can all learn from each other whether the two people involved are a college philosopher and a five year old child. The difference is that I'm not you, and you aren't me. If we can talk out what we see as different we can both formulate an opinion that is something entirely new.

So once again, I hope a nice discussion can continue and thank you for taking the time to read my 150 page response.:laugh

[newbieFans]

....
......

Yeah the only problems i had were pell and some other guys surviving when they should be dead .... other than that i did not like the davy back arc ...and the thriller bark reminded me of scooby doo .... ... Its not like every one finds a manga flawless ... Its just that the pros outweigh the cons a lot to forget about then and just enjoy the story !! :C

D: Is the Thriller Bark story inspired by things like The Addams Family and The Nightmare Before Christmas? I love the atmosphere in those films. P.N. Plate-loving Cindry-chan

O: Yes, the films. I love them too. In order to draw Thriller Bark, I even watched a lot of zombie movies, which I've never really done before. By my nature, I don't like scary things, so even though I put a lot more black into the art, I still tried to make silly, funny zombies. When artists draw about ghosts and dead people and things that aren't meant for polite society, they always go to the shrine to pray beforehand... as did I. I mean, I don't want to get cursed or anything.

Hey I think Oda was clearly stated this on sbs, just enjoy one piece and don't bother about a little things :)

[illusion]

Wow, the OP fans here are rabid, some of you act as if he's talking about your mom or something.

I thought he brought up some decent points, some I completely disagree with (not enough to flame him though). The main pet peeve of mine is that no one of importance dies (unless in a flashback).

I've heard all the reason for Oda doing so and I can see the logic but, in my opinion it would make the arcs that much more intense if we knew that it "could" happen. To me, watching a fight scene and knowing that their lives aren't really in danger, makes it a little less exciting. Now I'm not saying, go ahead and kill everyone off but, just once in a "GREAT" while, have someone die going out in a blaze of glory (nobody too important of course). :P

That being said, it's a minor detail to overlook considering how great this Manga/Anime is. I'll continue watching and reading, until it ends (hopefully never). smile-big

[Tempproxy]

Thank you for posting this. :iria

I don't think any topic like this has ever been posted in the One Piece section. :awesome

Nope never, I mean it's not like Handofjustice makes them everyweek or something like that.:LOS

[Muah]

Jihad why you take me out your sig :P

Ppl die in One Piece.

[Lobolover]

Just an argument for the sea train thing : they were there for protection, official, seeing as CP9 is a secret unit no one is supossed to know about . The same reason why there were ten thousand soldiers at Enies Lobby . Individualy, they were not that strong, but together, they could well have ended up defeated the strawhats, at least in the end. 10 000 is alot .

Ps: T-Bone was not a government agent, but a marine .

[ObscureCosmos]

Ppl die in One Piece.

If you're gonna say something like that in this thread, you better back it up with evidence. :ho:gun

[Aldric]

Ace gonna die so that covers the "no one dies" part

[Tobirama]

Whitebeard gonna do nothing he gonna die too.

[Tash]

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.

Dumb exaggerations .

[Tash]

If people can receive week long bans for something as mildly annoying as posting non-spoilers in spoiler threads why can't people be banned for this tired argument.

For fuck's sake

[DukeofFunk]

Nobody Dies

Agreed, to an extent. I enjoy seeing characters come back and some characters do die but generally, "nobody dying" is a flaw of Oda's manga.


Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically.

Concerning Luffy's powerups, I don't think there's anything wrong with him gaining 'new abilities every fight', since these new abilities are just essentially stronger variations on the moves he already has. His new techniques are logical progressions of his ability, unlike say Diable Jambe. Him learning soru/gear 2/gear 3 is a little iffy, but Luffy's been shown to be somewhat of a genius in battle so I'm willing to just roll with it. Usopp's new weapon was just whatever.. I didn't really think about it, I didn't think it was an issue. I understand your view on it though.

Sanji's Diable Jambe doesn't make a lot of sense, either. One could say it was sort of foreshadowed in the fight with Wanze, but really.. Nah.

When dealing with unexplained power-ups in One Piece, it's best just to not think about it too much and just accept that that's how it 'works'-- these characters may follow an RPG style progression of leveling up in battle, they may train in the interim between arcs that we don't see, but really, we don't know if any of thats true since it's never really explained (except for Zoro). The characters get power ups when the plot necessitates a power up. It might not make a lot of sense, but it also eliminates the dreaded training arc. In the end, I think its a net positive, though it definitely is flawed.

Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

I don't think Nami has powered down. At the start of One Piece Nami wasn't really anything more than smart and wily. She hasn't lost any of that and she's gained a weapon. Chopper seems like he's powered down somewhat, but I think that's more of a problem of the reduction of his character to a caricature than it is of him actually being weakened. It's not like he's not improving and its not like he was able to fight super strong characters in the first place, it's just now he's all about having a giant head and being cute so his development has taken a backseat.


Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.
I think you misuse the term Deus Ex Machina-- well, not really, but classifying all these events in such a way doesn't give them a fair shake.

Luffy's ability to stretch underwater has been argued in this thread already so I won't elaborate on it. But instead of deus ex machina I'd just call it unclear storytelling, since Oda clearly didn't explain the properties of seawater well enough for its readers to not be confused by what seems like inconsistencies.

Everything about Going Merry is the result of deus ex machina in some way, but I don't think its fair to label it so because you're using it in a negative fashion. The Merry's development was fleshed out properly and though the supernatural events that happen in relation to the ship are clearly supernatural and unexplainable, it's not necessarily bad storytelling. You're not supposed to grumble at how the Merry couldn't have possibly repaired itself with no materials, you're supposed to be as amazed as Usopp is that it's trying as hard as it can to maintain itself for the crew while its on its last legs. You're not supposed to dwell on how impossible it was for any ship to make it through the Aqua Laguna, you're supposed to marvel about how a ship loved its crewmates so much it was able to best the storm and help the strawhats make one final getaway. Though the events don't make sense when you apply the rules that the One Piece characters have created for the world, they do make sense when you consider the Going Merry's development as a character since Skypeia.

If one were to take analyze such events critically as you did, one would realize that a ship can't talk in the first place so none of this makes any sense. But Oda builds the Merry up to make such a thing believable. It may ruin your suspension of disbelief, but it doesn't ruin mine if I don't take these plot points so literally and seriously.

Concerning Nightmare Luffy, it's sort of deux ex machina, but it's also sort of not. Shadows aren't an element of One Piece at all until Thriller Bark, so we just have to take Oda's word on the properties of these shadows as the arc goes on. It may not have been properly foreshadowed, but it's not completely unbelievable since its not like the properties of shadows as first introduced do not allow for the properties of shadows as applied to Nightmare Luffy. As to why Luffy is the one to use all these shadows and not anyone else, it's because he's the main character of the story. The chosen one. :zaru It makes sense, really. All these people with their shadow taken were dominated by Moria so they have to wait around until they find someone who they truly think is powerful enough to stand up to him, so Luffy's the logical choice once they see him, right?

Exact same story/plot
This is true, but I think the repetitive structure only really stands out as a detriment in Thriller Bark and Skypeia. Every other arc is just different enough in characters, settings and story for me to enjoy without being bothered by the formulaic structure.

Too Many Groups

I disagree with that, but I'm not going to try to back it up, since there's not really a lot to argue about it. Some people enjoy the groups, some don't. I enjoy Oda fleshing out the universe with these groups. Some may be essentially inconsequential, but I still enjoy them. Concerning the tenryuubito, I'm fine with having several in the story because they helped build the plot at Sabaody.

All in all, I think you bring up some valid points. I do disagree with some of them, and I have a feeling that some of your problems lie with not being able to see the forest for the trees. The One Piece universe is something to be enjoyed in all its fun and seriousness, not critically analyzed for logical inconsistencies. Just enjoy the ride man, it's One Piece :thumbs

[Broleta]

You have too much time on your hands. Let informed people like what they want. If that annoys you then you're the one with the problem.

[Perseverance]

Well as long as you aren't comparing it to other shitty manga like Naruto/Bleach (by this i mean, comparisons to OP).

OP has it's flaws, but it's still the best Shounen out there so people just tend to forget and forgive.

[Muah]

I really hate all this deserves to die shit.

Either a person dies or they don't, wether you feel they deseved to die or not which is retarted in itself nobody cares.

[Candy]

One Piece has many problems that fans just aren't willing to admit to anyone nor themselves.

Which is why this thread is fail :amuse

[ArtieBoy]

Ace gonna die so that covers the "no one dies" part

i hope he dies. i like ace in all but he needs to die in order for luffy to have some kind of depth as a character

[Candy]

i hope he dies. i like ace in all but he needs to die in order for luffy to have some kind of depth as a character

Ace dioesnt need to die, in fact he needs to live

[J]

I like how the OP thinks he's the fist doofus to ever come up with over-generalizing/simplifying crap like this while providing no good arguments whatsoever. Good show.

[Trick2]

Please stop accusing people of bad reading comprehension when many of your points are inane and some are explained in the manga...

The southbirds helped chopper because they saw that he was protecting Gan Fall, the former ruler of the place which i would bet that they liked better than Enel.

...."OMG a ship has a soul, so unrealistic:notrust"
yeah...you really get the tone of the series:notrust

[Ribbun]

Dude, you don't fucking listen to readers to tell you how "serious" or "fun" the series is.
YOU decide for yourself.
If you want to take it seriously (like it seems you are now) than so be it. I read it for the fun and luls since it can cheer me up and make me laugh.
One Piece has it's flaws, yes,we are not overlooking it. WE KNOW it is there, you don't have to tell me all the fucking time. We love One Piece for what it is and not for what it isn't No death? Big deal! Good manga =/= Death
Silly animals? PFFT, since when does that hinder you from making a good manga?
This manga has the creativity that rivals it's storyline. It has sillyness that many other mangaka is too afraid to put in. That is what I love about One Piece.
If you hate it for all the little things and telling US what we already know-- give up.

[ObscureCosmos]

Guys, guys..
Let's stop being douches..

Half of what he pointed out were things that none of us never actually thought of... And some of those points were accurate.
Yes, the other half was total failure.. And I think we all know why, but this thread (because it was posted in the OP Harbour), doesn't deserve to be this way.. :( Let's all debate, argue, and discuss in a fashionable manner.


.. :)

[Muah]

YOU decide for yourself.
If you want to take it seriously (like it seems you are now) than so be it. I read it for the fun and luls since it can cheer me up and make me laugh.

I just take it for what it is. I mean when a serious part comes up what am I suppose to do feel sad, luagh or just skip it? You take a manga for what it is but to say that its silly and thats a problem with the manga is like trying to convince everybody silly is bad. A good manga should make you laugh and want to cry anyways. There is no manga as dramatic as one piece in my eyes or as funny and thats a problem? So what im saying is that someones personal opinion is suppose to be a problem with a manga? We'll excuse me but suck my nuts:laugh. I agree you should watch one piece for whatever porpose suits you.


One Piece has it's flaws, yes,we are not overlooking it. WE KNOW it is there, you don't have to tell me all the fucking time. We love One Piece for what it is and not for what it isn't No death? Big deal! Good manga =/= Death
Silly animals? PFFT, since when does that hinder you from making a good manga?
This manga has the creativity that rivals it's storyline. It has sillyness that many other mangaka is too afraid to put in. That is what I love about One Piece.
If you hate it for all the little things and telling US what we already know-- give up.

So it's different, what makes this thread so much of a fail is becuase no one will argue why being different is bad. OP just change the thread name from "Problems with one piece" to "My Personal Problems With One Piece".

[Ribbun]

Guys, guys..
Let's stop being douches..

Half of what he pointed out were things that none of us never actually thought of... And some of those points were accurate.
Yes, the other half was total failure.. And I think we all know why, but this thread (because it was posted in the OP Harbour), doesn't deserve to be this way.. :( Let's all debate, argue, and discuss in a fashionable manner.


.. :)


I pretty much found those when I read One Piece already.
I don't see why someone needs to point it out to us when we can find it on our own.
I'm sure we know there is flaws in One Piece right?
If not, I have overestimated you guys.

If I sound like a douche, I apologize. But making a thread about their personal problem with one piece is just ridiculous.

I just take it for what it is. I mean when a serious part comes up what am I suppose to do feel sad, luagh or just skip it? You take a manga for what it is but to say that its silly and thats a problem with the manga is like trying to convince everybody silly is bad. A good manga should make you laugh and want to cry anyways. There is no manga as dramatic as one piece in my eyes or as funny and thats a problem? So what im saying is that someones personal opinion is suppose to be a problem with a manga? We'll excuse me but suck my nuts:laugh. I agree you should watch one piece for whatever porpose suits you.




So it's different, what makes this thread so much of a fail is becuase no one will argue why being different is bad. OP just change the thread name from "Problems with one piece" to "My Personal Problems With One Piece".

I mean taking seriously as in "Dude, that guy has powers like wtf that isn't realistic" or "that ship can talk, this is crazy retarded!" and stuff like that. Of course we take the serious scenes seriously and fun parts with laughter.

& I agree with the second part.

[Cerō]

Problems with One Piece?

It has the most annoying main character I've ever suffered to come across. It's also over saturated with Melodrama and is awfully long winded.

[ObscureCosmos]

I pretty much found those when I read One Piece already.
I don't see why someone needs to point it out to us when we can find it on our own.
I'm sure we know there is flaws in One Piece right?
If not, I have overestimated you guys.

If I sound like a douche, I apologize. But making a thread about their personal problem with one piece is just ridiculous.

I mean taking seriously as in "Dude, that guy has powers like wtf that isn't realistic" or "that ship can talk, this is crazy retarded!" and stuff like that. Of course we take the serious scenes seriously and fun parts with laughter.

Yeeeah, most of the things he pointed out were based on comparing One Piece to.. Idk, a ''realistic'' manga, or just real life.. Simply idiotic in itself.
But then again, we shouldn't lose our cool because of it.. [I just realized this]. :lmao


Problems with One Piece?

It has the most annoying main character I've ever suffered to come across. It's also over saturated with Melodrama and is awfully long winded.

What's wrong with you?


P.s. I like your sig.

[Muah]

Resurection

[ObscureCosmos]

Stop it. :pek


Failed threads have no need.

[Muah]

Resurecteeeeed!!

[Nimander]

My biggest problems with it?

The arcs drag on and on and on. I almost found myself skipping chapters just so I could get to the climax of any given fight.

It also took me a long time to get into. It honestly wasn't until I saw Luffy premiere the Afro in that Davy Jones thing that I could honestly say I enjoyed the manga to any degree for the first time. Once I changed my expectations of it, I found I could enjoy it more, despite the slow pace.

And I do find Luffy to be one-dimensional, even for a shounen protagonist. Not to say the story itself is one-dimensional. Not by any means. But if the main character, and none of the main characters can make me connect with it in some way, then my enjoyment is going to be limited.

That isn't to say that OP isn't a good story. It took me 250-odd chapters and four tries to get to where I could honestly just enjoy it for what it is, but I got there eventually. And though it's not on my list of favorites, I'm not going to mindlessly bash it like others do. Oda writes a good, creative and enjoyable story that can make me laugh at the oddest moments at the oddest characters. There just happen to be stories out there I like better.

[jasper222]

The arcs drag on and on and on. I almost found myself skipping chapters just so I could get to the climax of any given fight.

It's the story that matters sir, not the fights.

[DarkRasengan]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

[typhoon72]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

That might be the dumbest thing I have ever read

[Misha]

It's funny, everything that OP doesn't like, I do.

Half of what he pointed out were things that none of us never actually thought of... And some of those points were accurate.
thats not true. Everything OP listed is what everyone says is wrong with One Piece. RehashRehashRehashRehashRehash.

If you weren't aware of it's shortcomings at this point, well...

[ObscureCosmos]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

LOL. Good one.

thats not true. Everything OP listed is what everyone says is wrong with One Piece. RehashRehashRehashRehashRehash.

If you weren't aware of it's shortcomings at this point, well...

I said that for the sole purpose of trying to agree with him, even if what he said was BS.

[Lance Vance]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

Woah ho. What the fuck?

One Piece isn't for you.

[jasper222]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

Cool story bro ...




... like that right?

[King of heaven]

Problem is a big word , one "problem" in the eyes of someone can be the very reason why another one enjoy the manga , so it's very subjective.

[jazz189]

Question: Didn't a fan already ask Oda in SBS why he didn't kill off characters?
I remember his response was that if he kills off a character he will never bring them back to life. He felt that if he was to kill a character and then bring them back to life it would cheapen the death.

I also wonder why the OP would want to see all the Straw hats develop their new moves, and or items. Especially Usopp with the kabuto, or Nami's Perfect Clima tact. This is mostly because kabuto has dials on it which increases it strength as does the clima tact, Usopp traded some rubber with the Skypeans to gain the dials to make them during the Skypiea ark. Common sense would make anyone realize that in order to come up with such weapons Usopp probably made them in his little corner. Does anyone want an entire arc based around Usopp making the kabuto and clima tact? Same thing with the new moves.

The Straw hats fight almost every day, so of course most of their battles are not shown. The characters can also learn new attacks from said battles, which even though movie 7 is not cannon it does demonstrate how the Straw hats most likely learn their new moves. They are fighting and find themselves in a tough situation and under an adrenaline rush they do something crazy which gets them out of a tight spot. They then notice of the new move and try to repeat it through similar circumstances, which in the One Piece world there is a never ending supply of. It also helps them because along with recreating the move they just did, they are also thinking on their feet. This is what makes sparring to be superior to training on your own, because you actually come up with more moves that way, and it helps build stamina. Why do I know this well I took karate, and the best to learn how to take down an appointment was to actually have an opponent.

Of course because the straw hats are fighting everyday it would make the manga incredibly boring to show every fight, and every move related epiphany.

Didn't Going Merry get ripped in half from the those Monkey brothers? That was why the ship needed fixing. Oh and about the Klabautermann its was not created by Oda.. please refer to here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klabautermann)...and remember Kids knowledge is power.

[Neo-jplaya]

Resurecteeeeed!!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YRG3_h4arbU/RyNCd2c4lvI/AAAAAAAABUY/EbROhSlkvEk/s400/jiggly+is+banned.png
serves you right for necro.

[Kaze]

Question: Didn't a fan already ask Oda in SBS why he didn't kill off characters?.


I believe so.

BUT if you see Merry as a crew member (which if you don't I don't see how you can be a anything but a fair weather fan) then he did kill off a character.

[Neo-jplaya]

I believe so.

BUT if you see Merry as a crew member (which if you don't I don't see how you can be a anything but a fair weather fan) then he did kill off a character.
also a few died(and are going to die) in the current arc as well.

[MarcoThePhoenix]

I can see where your coming from, some things are not very realistic, but since when was entertainment SUPPOSED to make sense? Its just entertainment and its a very entertaining Manga/Anime.

Recently I started to doubt that Oda was going to provide a decent story in the WB pirates vs WG war because of the insane number of characters and because if one side won there would be many deaths which is not Oda's style. But so far he seems to be pulling it off pretty well.

Again, atleast be grateful that it makes more sense than Bleach!

IMO in entertainment OP >>>> Naruto = Bleach

In terms of realism Naruto >>>>> OP >>>>>> Bleach

Not that I have anything against Bleach I also enjoy it

[(´・ω・)]

@ jazz189: I agree with you.


Also, you double posted. o.o

[Kaze]

Oda is the best mangaka out of the big shounen three, when he DOES kill off WB and HOPEFULLY ace, it will be almost as awesome as merry's death.

[zoro_santoryu]

I believe you are thinking too much. Just enjoy the magnificent storyline of One Piece and dont focus upon the small things. EVERY anime has some problems

[Candy]

Just enjoy OPis has soooooooo many less problems the the others in the shonen trinity

[BadassTaisouIsBadass]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

Dohohohoho. I can only laugh my heart out. Dohohoho.

[Supreme Alchemist Fan]

luffy, robot, no personality?!? what manga was he reading?

Also realism is the last thing you should be complaining about with OP. Its not trying or wanting to be realistic. Theirs much better things to complain about in One Piece other than something as obviously discarded as realism.

The main character is made of rubber. None of you should be giving a FUCK about realism when reading OP.

[kanoha*yellow*flash]

boring thought you were gonna be abit creative talk about things that the series is realy missing but just decided to burn the series with dumb shit that no one realy cares about.

every think you pointed out wrong in OP( tho I cant disagree with U 100%)
is the same for every anime

email me a list of anime that dont have atleast 90% of the same shit ur bitchin bout. if you add naruto,bleach,hunterxhunter,coad geas ect to that list I aint lookin at it cuz ur lyin 2 yourself or your just on the hype. :nuts

[RivFader]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

I like that sentence :awesome

It's the story that matters sir, not the fights.

Indeed.

[MdB]

Since when is Naruto more realistic than Bleach and One Piece?

[zoro_santoryu]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

I know what you say comes from your point of view, but still i find that offensive and disrespectful. Calling Luffy a robot without personality is indescribable. Luffy has one of the strongest persona's i've ever seen, more so than naruto etc.. Im certain that most One Piece fans can attest to this

You will be inevitably negged because of your comment:nod

[AeroNin]

the story execution, plot, characterization, character development, and themes are all amazing in onepiece

there are some issues with it, but every story has them

[taily kun]

Its too slow paced/boring. The manga has too much useless detail in its drawings which makes it hard to focus on what is happening.
Luffy seems like a robot with no personality. Zorro and sanji are the only decent protaganists in the manga. Things drag on and theres very little progression.

today I learned what One Piece was like read in the eyes on an utter moron.

[DarkRasengan]

today I learned what One Piece was like read in the eyes on an utter moron.

Not really a moron lol, its just my opinion. I try to watch it even skipping the fillers but everything just seems like filler, first hundred chapters luffy doesn't get any progression at all, atleast in naruto theres logical progression. Then i try to read the manga and its straining on the eyes and doesnt keep me interested. The background has more detail than whats going on which throws you off of the action. The unrealistically proportioned characters dont appeal to me.

[AeroNin]

Not really a moron lol, its just my opinion. I try to watch it even skipping the fillers but everything just seems like filler, first hundred chapters luffy doesn't get any progression at all, atleast in naruto theres logical progression. Then i try to read the manga and its straining on the eyes and doesnt keep me interested. The background has more detail than whats going on which throws you off of the action. The unrealistically proportioned characters dont appeal to me.

naruto is garbage, plot execution and pacing is terrible, story is just trolling now
and what no progression? WTF have you been

Onepiece gives you everything, side/minor character development which are relevant to the story, a new refreshing theme in each arc with new dynamic characters and action, and the story and world is amazing

and oda adding in the backgrounds to the battles just show you how great an artiest he is

[abcd]

Not really a moron lol, its just my opinion. I try to watch it even skipping the fillers but everything just seems like filler, first hundred chapters luffy doesn't get any progression at all, atleast in naruto theres logical progression. Then i try to read the manga and its straining on the eyes and doesnt keep me interested. The background has more detail than whats going on which throws you off of the action. The unrealistically proportioned characters dont appeal to me.

The first hundred chapters luffy got 5 of his nakama ... went from a normal guy to a recognized pirate :oh Then He enters grandline and find out that the final goal is Raftel.... He should follow one of the 7 paths.. reach red line go to new world to reach raftel .... I think it has a clear logical progression.

The detailed backgrounds are usually appreciated by all , They have their own hidden infos which is really fun when u read the manga weekly cos u can spend more time with it ...

The unrealistically proportioned characters - in a manga with dinosaurs and cyborgs?? u must be kidding me :lmao

[Mider T]

naruto is garbage, plot execution and pacing is terrible, story is just trolling now
and what no progression? WTF have you been

Actually, Naruto's story has been very good since the Pain fight.

Onepiece gives you everything, side/minor character development which are relevant to the story, a new refreshing theme in each arc with new dynamic characters and action, and the story and world is amazing

Stretches itself thin.

and oda adding in the backgrounds to the battles just show you how great an artiest he is

Without paying attention to detail. He's more of a cartoonist.

[C. Hook]

Actually, Naruto's story has been very good since the Pain fight.

What the hell are you on? The abortion of a chapter this week spent about ten pages on characterization that was fucking stupid. If Kishi wants to spend that much time on the love plot, that's great; just make sure that you don't have retarded characterization coming out of fucking no where (Lying to herself? WTF?).

Admittedly, the meeting of the Kages was fairly good, but it all fell apart with Madara's "master plan" and the fucking fanfiction that was the ten tailed beast.

Without paying attention to detail. He's more of a cartoonist.

Amazing, the hypocrisy in this comment.

Kishi draws horribly underdetailed stuff, but obviously he gets the pass for it. Oda draws some of the best double spreads in today's popular shounen and does not get said pass.

This is ignoring the few exceptions like Kishi's amazing double spread of the Kyuubi battle. If Kishi drew like that consistently, I'd probably be more lenient.

[DarkRasengan]

The first hundred chapters luffy got 5 of his nakama ... went from a normal guy to a recognized pirate :oh Then He enters grandline and find out that the final goal is Raftel.... He should follow one of the 7 paths.. reach red line go to new world to reach raftel .... I think it has a clear logical progression.

The detailed backgrounds are usually appreciated by all , They have their own hidden infos which is really fun when u read the manga weekly cos u can spend more time with it ...

The unrealistically proportioned characters - in a manga with dinosaurs and cyborgs?? u must be kidding me :lmao

Progression, in the first 100 chapters luffy went from using gatling gun punches to using gatling gun punces. It's very slow progression, which doesn't keep me entertained. The detailed backgrounds are just a pet peeve from me, it makes the characters and actions not stand out. Unrealistic proportioned characters has nothing to do with dinorsaurs and cyborgs. I just dont like people with giant heads and lips, usopps nose is the only acception to a large deformaty that could appeal to me.

From the mangas i read.
Entertainment wise Naruto>monster>>>Death note>Bleach>>>>>>One piece.
Characters Monster=Death note>naruto>>>>bleach>>>>>>>>>>>>one piece(very little characters appeal to me)

Though i am a fan of realism, its not the concept of being unrealistic that gets to me (freiza is one of my favorite manga characters and hes completely unrealistic) It's just the designs where somewon has popeyed arms and a small head and legs with a hugeeee mid section.
Chopper is an unrealistic character, but his proportions do not bother me in the least bit, on the other hand, i really really hate Ivankovs design.

[mystictrunks]

If you're a fan of realism you shouldn't like Death Note, Naruto or Monster.

[C. Hook]

Why care about realism? Manga is escapist. You want realism, you go talk to some people. Fictional characters can be a lot more endearing in their qualities because they AREN'T realistic (Although when handled well, realism can be quite awesome in fiction).

[abcd]

Progression, in the first 100 chapters luffy went from using gatling gun punches to using gatling gun punces. It's very slow progression, which doesn't keep me entertained. The detailed backgrounds are just a pet peeve from me, it makes the characters and actions not stand out. Unrealistic proportioned characters has nothing to do with dinorsaurs and cyborgs. I just dont like people with giant heads and lips, usopps nose is the only acception to a large deformaty that could appeal to me.

So u dont care about story's progression but only Luffy's progression ? ... Luffy was pretty stong compared to most people he met on east blue, Even arlong , He did make use of a lot of moves with observation like the pin wheel for instance.. but he never really needed extra power to win someone ... When he fought croc , He used his brain to figure out tactics and win ... Its far better then 2 people throwing beamas and bigger beams and planet busting beams.

As for charachters its ur personal taste .... I did dislike such a potrayal initially but later I realised how much I like them the way they are... The personality gets to me not the big lips or big heads ....
From the mangas i read.
Entertainment wise Naruto>monster>>>Death note>Bleach>>>>>>One piece.
Characters Monster=Death note>naruto>>>>bleach>>>>>>>>>>>>one piece(very little characters appeal to me)
:lmao ... so u read many manga :oh ... most of ue here have a list like that too :lmao
Though i am a fan of realism, its not the concept of being unrealistic that gets to me (freiza is one of my favorite manga characters and hes completely unrealistic) It's just the designs where somewon has popeyed arms and a small head and legs with a hugeeee mid section.
Chopper is an unrealistic character, but his proportions do not bother me in the least bit, on the other hand, i really really hate Ivankovs design.
http://babymed.com/App_Images/Content/dwarfism1.jpg

[BuggytheYonkou]

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.

The thing is people don't need to die for a series to be good and while it may be somewhat annoying at least Oda doesn't kill someone off to try and get a heart felt reaction even though the character had no development at all *cough*Asuma*cough*

Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

Note: We are not even going to bring up Haki in relation to this...

I don't really see the issue here as this comes up alot but people have actually said this.Oda doesn't due training acrs,this is probably because they suck.Thus they train off panel probably the weaks between traveling from place to place.

Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

That isn't true because being under water doesn't make you lose your ability it just basically paralyzes you.The Going Merry repaired it self because the ship had a soul.Obvious this concept went over your head though.Also Iceburg reapired it and it's soul went to EL to save the crew it loved.

Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

Alot of series use the same formula repeatedly the cure for this is that the story and progress each arc has makes up for the cookie cutting arc types.

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)

I don't really see this as even an issue.


Just my thoughts on what you had to say.

[typhoon72]

Not really a moron lol, its just my opinion. I try to watch it even skipping the fillers but everything just seems like filler, first hundred chapters luffy doesn't get any progression at all, atleast in naruto theres logical progression. Then i try to read the manga and its straining on the eyes and doesnt keep me interested. The background has more detail than whats going on which throws you off of the action. The unrealistically proportioned characters dont appeal to me.

Your probably the same type of person who thinks movies like Pulp Fiction has no plot as well

http://i27.tinypic.com/2z8z3w2.gif

We get it. You dont like One Piece, it doesnt suck or have no plot progression just because you say so. Different strokes for different folks.

[Mider T]

What the hell are you on? The abortion of a chapter this week spent about ten pages on characterization that was fucking stupid. If Kishi wants to spend that much time on the love plot, that's great; just make sure that you don't have retarded characterization coming out of fucking no where (Lying to herself? WTF?).

Admittedly, the meeting of the Kages was fairly good, but it all fell apart with Madara's "master plan" and the fucking fanfiction that was the ten tailed beast.

This week's chapter is probably the beginning of Sakura's arc that Kishi described in that interview so long ago. It's necessary.

How is it fanfiction?:facepalm Expanding on the story is a good thing.

Amazing, the hypocrisy in this comment.

Kishi draws horribly underdetailed stuff, but obviously he gets the pass for it. Oda draws some of the best double spreads in today's popular shounen and does not get said pass.

This is ignoring the few exceptions like Kishi's amazing double spread of the Kyuubi battle. If Kishi drew like that consistently, I'd probably be more lenient.

I was more referring to Kubo since Kishi's drawings are like a growing, living, changing thing.

[AeroNin]

if you think this naruto pairing crap is good in the story your not only a troll but also a tard

i feel bad for you

[jasper222]

This week's chapter is probably the beginning of Sakura's arc that Kishi described in that interview so long ago. It's necessary.


Except that the love story should've been done years ago. Sir, the more I see you post the more I'm convinced you're trolling or enjoying the post count. Well whatever.

Naruto feels like the plot is being crammed now. Juubi, Moon Eye Plan, Sasuke, 4th Shinobi War, Madara, Rikudo Sennin, Uchiha Hideout ... it's not intertwining plots anymore, it's called cramming.

It's Kishi who should take notes from Oda, look at W7 EL.

How is it fanfiction?:facepalm Expanding on the story is a good thing.

Juubi is like fanfiction since it's like a fan's dream. I believe somebody predicted (even though I've no proof) Juubi on a tangent. This is the proof why Naruto runs on fans, OP runs on plot. You like Naruto more since what you expect is already there. We OP fans like the unexpected more.

I was more referring to Kubo since Kishi's drawings are like a growing, living, changing thing.

Kishi's drawings are simple. How many backgrounds do you see in Naruto, the ones in scale with the Kyuubi's destruction of Konoha? None right? It's because the fans don't care much about background art, if there's bishies then they're set.

[C. Hook]

Except that the love story should've been done years ago. Sir, the more I see you post the more I'm convinced you're trolling or enjoying the post count. Well whatever.

Naruto feels like the plot is being crammed now. Juubi, Moon Eye Plan, Sasuke, 4th Shinobi War, Madara, Rikudo Sennin, Uchiha Hideout ... it's not intertwining plots anymore, it's called cramming.

This. The love plot is bad, the dialogue is extremely weird, and its direction seems aimless. Why have Sakura confess her love to Naruto and then be told "the truth" by him as still loving Sasuke? It's aimless.

Juubi didn't expand the story, it added in an element of ancient history nobody cared about that was a fanfiction author's wet dream. Combine that with the fan wank powerup through Rikudou Sennin's moon, and it becomes hilariously bad.

Kishi's backgrounds are endless generic forests and Konoha. Speaking of which, we never get to really see anywhere but Konoha. Kishi has been doing a better job of this recently, but it still grates.

Kubo is the worst artist of the three by FAR. No questions asked.

[DarkRasengan]

Your probably the same type of person who thinks movies like Pulp Fiction has no plot as well

http://i27.tinypic.com/2z8z3w2.gif

We get it. You dont like One Piece, it doesnt suck or have no plot progression just because you say so. Different strokes for different folks.

Im not saying it sucks, pretty much everything i said i said was my opinion, i actually liked pulp fiction though not one of the best movies.

[DarkRasengan]

So u dont care about story's progression but only Luffy's progression ? ... Luffy was pretty stong compared to most people he met on east blue, Even arlong , He did make use of a lot of moves with observation like the pin wheel for instance.. but he never really needed extra power to win someone ... When he fought croc , He used his brain to figure out tactics and win ... Its far better then 2 people throwing beamas and bigger beams and planet busting beams.

As for charachters its ur personal taste .... I did dislike such a potrayal initially but later I realised how much I like them the way they are... The personality gets to me not the big lips or big heads ....

:lmao ... so u read many manga :oh ... most of ue here have a list like that too :lmao

http://babymed.com/App_Images/Content/dwarfism1.jpg

I never said i liked big beams and the lot, i didn't find the story progressed very much either, he got more crew mates thats it. IMO it has less but the same basic story progression than pokemon (go somewhere, solve a problem, back to square one). Naruto fights are much, much more interesting than one piece fights. As i said characters is my personal taste(as you said as well).
Im not bragging about reading many manga lol, its not alot at all compared to most people here, im just comparing one piece in my opinion to other manga i have read.
Your bringing up irrelevent arguments disputing my personal oppinion which there is no real reason to.

[MdB]

I never said i liked big beams and the lot, i didn't find the story progressed very much either, he got more crew mates thats it. IMO it has less but the same basic story progression than pokemon (go somewhere, solve a problem, back to square one). Naruto fights are much, much more interesting than one piece fights. As i said characters is my personal taste(as you said as well).
Im not bragging about reading many manga lol, its not alot at all compared to most people here, im just comparing one piece in my opinion to other manga i have read.
Your bringing up irrelevent arguments disputing my personal oppinion which there is no real reason to.

You're oversimplifying a story and expect to not be ridiculed?

[jasper222]

I never said i liked big beams and the lot, i didn't find the story progressed very much either, he got more crew mates thats it. IMO it has less but the same basic story progression than pokemon (go somewhere, solve a problem, back to square one). Naruto fights are much, much more interesting than one piece fights. As i said characters is my personal taste(as you said as well).

I believe you're having the wrong idea here sir. Stories have the same basic story plot progression! Romeo and Juliet had the same story plot progression, Odyssey had the same story plot progression, hell even Harry Potter had the same story plot progression. What makes these interesting is HOW they make it there without getting the same cliches you're getting over and over again. You're oversimplifying things, and that says a lot.

Also, Naruto fights are much more interesting? You mean when hand seals still mattered, when Chakra amounts still mattered, when STRATEGY still mattered ... now it's just powerlevels, and I don't know when was the last time I saw a ninja use a hand seal.

[Mider T]

Except that the love story should've been done years ago. Sir, the more I see you post the more I'm convinced you're trolling or enjoying the post count. Well whatever.

It's apart of character development and Kishi is pretty good at it. Oda doesn't challenge himself to even go into the subject, he's horrible at it. Even Toriyama tried.

Naruto feels like the plot is being crammed now. Juubi, Moon Eye Plan, Sasuke, 4th Shinobi War, Madara, Rikudo Sennin, Uchiha Hideout ... it's not intertwining plots anymore, it's called cramming.

It's not cramming anything, it's large plot to fulfill and Kishi is confident he can pull it off. Higher standards = Higher praise = Higher results.

It's Kishi who should take notes from Oda, look at W7 EL.

Don't remind me of that travesty.:apathy

Juubi is like fanfiction since it's like a fan's dream. I believe somebody predicted (even though I've no proof) Juubi on a tangent. This is the proof why Naruto runs on fans, OP runs on plot. You like Naruto more since what you expect is already there. We OP fans like the unexpected more.

How is it like a fan's dream? Kishi already said he knew how he was going to end his story, he already had it planned out.

Kishi's drawings are simple. How many backgrounds do you see in Naruto, the ones in scale with the Kyuubi's destruction of Konoha? None right? It's because the fans don't care much about background art, if there's bishies then they're set.

Again I was referring to Kubo. And when running through the forests Kishi pays attention to every tree. Mt. Hokage isn't easy to draw either.

[BuggytheYonkou]

It's apart of character development and Kishi is pretty good at it. Oda doesn't challenge himself to even go into the subject, he's horrible at it. Even Toriyama tried.


I can't sit here and read this BS.Oda doesn't do it because romance ruins Shounen's like it did to Bleach and like Kishi is doing right now.

Kishi doesn't know how to do romance how is Sakura being hung up on a traitor for Years good Romance?

Let's not even get into the bad writing that was the Hinata confession.

[jasper222]

It's apart of character development and Kishi is pretty good at it. Oda doesn't challenge himself to even go into the subject, he's horrible at it. Even Toriyama tried.

Saying you like somebody then rejecting her isn't called character development. Naruto is trying to be a hero, which he isn't. He may have saved Konoha, but it wasn't him who did all the work. Oda on the other hand, is a genius when it comes to character development. The Luffy in EB and the current Luffy still retain the same goal, which is to be the PK. However, he has learned much and is still learning. Naruto on the other hand, wanted to be Hokage. Now it's to save the world. That is NOT character development. Kishi created 2 separate characters.


It's not cramming anything, it's large plot to fulfill and Kishi is confident he can pull it off. Higher standards = Higher praise = Higher results.

High standards = Higher fail. I mean, can't you see? Even Shakespeare would agree with me that it's cramming. He may be confident that he can pull it off, but not on the same level as teh first Naruto, ergo Zabuza Arc-like.

How is it like a fan's dream? Kishi already said he knew how he was going to end his story, he already had it planned out.

I'm pretty sure saving the world isn't part of being Hokage. It's a fan's dream.

Again I was referring to Kubo. And when running through the forests Kishi pays attention to every tree. Mt. Hokage isn't easy to draw either.

Trees are easy to copy paste.

[mcwhirlpoolinc]

there's a problem with one piece?

[Supreme Alchemist Fan]

Without paying attention to detail. He's more of a cartoonist.

http://m3.mangatoshokan.com/onepiece/unknown/267/One%20Piece%20-%20267%20-%2017.jpg

your ignorance has been exposed, Mider.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Nobody Dies- This bothers me the most about OP. Villains, enemies, and allies alike... NO one dies. Its almost like if you fight a strawhat, their plot shield gets extended over the villain as well! There is ZERO suspense to an OP fight, because I have been conditioned to learn that no one is going to kick the bucket. It also means we are going to see EVERY one of these characters again. I understand this is for kids; That being said, you aren't going to tell me that pirates don't kill...or that no one deserves to die.

where DA dead at? WHERE DA DEAD AT?! is this the same question every single time. you know some people prefer less deaths over more deaths or the latter over less deaths. besides, there are plenty of death's. off the top of my head, zoro slaughtering over hundreds of bounty hunters in whisky peak i believe. the entire village of ohara died too, it was a tradegy. however, i will agree that more villians need to die, regardless, this is a piss poor reasoning to why one piece is bad.

Random Power-Ups (and power downs)- Its been mentioned that Oda doesn't like training arcs, and thats understandable. However, luffy gaining new abilities every fight, absorbing Soru essentially by osmosis(Gear 2nd), and basically . Secondly, where did Kabuto come from? Sogeking/Usopp was using Pachinko up until he stood beside everyone on Enies Lobby! When did he make it? and When did Sanji learn Daible Jambe? At least we see Zoro train, so it makes sense that he pops out new moves every fight. Is it so bad to use one panel showing one of these guys train? Also, why were Nami and Chopper amazing when they debuted during their arc, but are now essentially cowards/weak? Why is the rumble ball damn near useless now? These weird power-up/power downs make it hard (for me) to take a lot of fights seriously, if only because I know their is going to be something random that will determine the victory.

oda is quite smart with this. who has time to incorporate training into a single arc? this makes one piece boring, this slows the pace down and the last thing i really want is reading someone who trains. i have to admit, back when i watced dbz, the training arcs was batsh!t boring for me (!!!). besides, oda later explains how they came up with the random powerups. this statement is just dumb.


Too Much Deus Ex Machina-
Things like Luffy being able to stretch underwater in the Arlong arc despite supposedly losing all his powers in seawater, The Going Merry repairing itself (without materials :zaru), showing up at Enies Lobby (although it was released during Aqua Laguna, which was supposed to be death to ships), NIGHTMARE LUFFY (WTF??!!)etc. Damn near every fight or situation is resolved thru something entirely random that breaks the natural progression of the fight or situation. There are so many WTF moments like the ones I mentioned above, and it just seems like a cop out on Oda's part.

its called uniqueness. in other words, this is what makes one piece on of a kind. trust me, if it had the redundancy of the other manga's this would not be favored by most people. whats wrong with going outside the box? frankly, its refreshing at times. i mean look at bleach fights, its pretty redundant, at least one piece you get a kick out of something different.

Exact same story/plot- Every single storyline/arc has followed a similar pattern (up til the whitebeard war to a certain extent):

-Land on Island
-Someone on the island runs into a problem
-New "Final Boss" appears (with just enough members to add fights for SH crew members)
-some way to remove Luffy from the fight
- Other crew members lose to "Final Boss"
-Luffy Reappears
-Random power-up/Deus Ex Machina
-Victory

i believe, this is just for the nakama arcs mostly. as seen later on in the arcs, its not redundant anymore as he is near completion when it comes to gathering nakama. besides, what in holy hell can oda do to each island? i for one LOVE, you hear me? LOVE the atmosphere for several different islands. it makes it refreshing.

Too Many Groups- Damn near every arc has added or included a new group to OP. While I do not deny some of their importance, it seems like a way to add a tremendous amount of filler to this manga. Did we really need to have Sanji fight thru all the other CPS on the Puffing Tom? What is the real point of the Tenryuubito in relation to Luffy becoming Pirate King? And this doesn't include the various groups of pirates! It just seems like Oda is stretching this manga out for no real reason.

-Shikibukai, Yonkou, World Government, Supernovas, Various CPs, Tenryuubito, Gorosei, Admirals (there's a reason they have code names)


Like I said, these are just things I see that are wrong with OP. I don't think its terrible, or that it is a bad manga; I just think people don't see the forest for the trees when they praise Oda thru the moon.


wait wait wait wait? this is a problem? this is your personal opinion, this is not a problem. the amount of groups is excellent in this manga, afterall it is free for all. the more characters the better. if the reason behind "more groups" is the big problem, then you have a hard time keeping up with all the groups.

my two cents.

[Nuzzie]

http://m3.mangatoshokan.com/onepiece/unknown/267/One%20Piece%20-%20267%20-%2017.jpg

your ignorance has been exposed, Mider.

Can't bear to see this spread ruined by shitty scan quality so look at this instead
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5052/onepiecev29064065.png

[C. Hook]

Can't bear to see this spread ruined by shitty scan quality so look at this instead
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5052/onepiecev29064065.png

Thanks, that pic is pretty. :)

That's still not even my favorite doublespread from Skypiea; the one of the city back when it was still covered in gold takes the cake.

[Nuzzie]

Here's null rerelease of 29 which is where that version came from. The whole volume is at that quality. Unfortunately they haven't done a rerelease for the norland flashback yet :(

http://www.mediafire.com/?mgtjvyz0jqy

[p-lou]

uh oh nuzzie is getting the skypiea spreads out again

[Nuzzie]

uh oh nuzzie is getting the skypiea spreads out again

i have them bookmarked :)

[C. Hook]

The Skypiea/Water 7/Thriller Bark argument: Able to destroy claims of One Piece having simple art compared to other shonens in a second.

Here's null rerelease of 29 which is where that version came from. The whole volume is at that quality. Unfortunately they haven't done a rerelease for the norland flashback yet :(

http://www.mediafire.com/?mgtjvyz0jqy

:cry

[Pimp of Pimps]

Wait, Null is still releasing?

[Jihad Uzamaki]

Are you people still talking about this? I saw some jackass quote my Opening post and try to offer rebuttals...SMH

Look, OP doesn't suck; It has issues, some of you live with them, some of us critique them. Whether any of you like or not, not all of us are enamored with Oda's writing, art, or pacing; that doesn't mean, however, that we cannot enjoy his story despite its flaws. I won't be posting in here anymore, as it has been overrun by fanboys and trolls doing their best to derail a decent discussion thread.


Jolla,


JihaD

[abcd]

I never said i liked big beams and the lot, i didn't find the story progressed very much either, he got more crew mates thats it. IMO it has less but the same basic story progression than pokemon (go somewhere, solve a problem, back to square one). Naruto fights are much, much more interesting than one piece fights. As i said characters is my personal taste(as you said as well).
As people said... U are over simplifing things..He got crew mates with pretty strong bonds and a ship ,Its like the foundation of the story ... I dont understand "back to square one" I mean He did not lose the crew mates or the bounty or his ship or the Map... Square one was him with a barrel floating near a whirlpool :oh
Naruto fights were pretty good in part one, In part two they are really bad, There is no more strategy , Its just that the one with bigger chakra wins.
Im not bragging about reading many manga lol, its not alot at all compared to most people here, im just comparing one piece in my opinion to other manga i have read.
Naruto and bleach were the first anime I saw ... I liked both of them which is why I started reading manga but both are nit as special as u claim them to be ...
Chunnin exam arc - very similar to HxH hunter exam arc
Dragon Ball- Goku has a tail , turns into gorilla on full moon which he cant control (werewolf ), Naruto is a stripes like a fox, He has a fox inside him which he cant control
Kurapica: Entire tribe killed except him , He is searching for revenge agains genyei rodan , His Eyes turn Red in anger - Gon and killua try to stop him from killing and rescue him from himself .
Bleach and YYH , I dont need to say more :oh ...
Death note was pretty good till around 16th episode , After L's death it became predictable , And its not logical to compare a 26 episode anime to a 400 episode one .
I wud put in my list like this(wont add DB cause its a classic)
entertainment FMA=One Piece>=HxH>>>>>Code Geass=Death note>naruto part 1>>>>>>>>>>>>.bleach SS arc >>>>>>>>>>>>naruto 2>>current bleach arc
Charachters
HxH>>FMA=OP>> Code geass>>>>Death note>> Naruto part 1>>>> bleach
:zaru
Your bringing up irrelevent arguments disputing my personal oppinion which there is no real reason to.

do point out where the argument was irrelevant :oh

[Trick2]

I don't know if Mider is serious or just an incredibly awesome troll...

@jihad
OP does have flaws but that doesn't mean that we agree on which ones it is so saying that we "blindly overlook cause we have no idea what we are talking about" (I know you didn't say it but you might as well have) is going a little too far considering we are entering subjective territory.

[C. Hook]

I don't know if Mider is serious or just an incredibly awesome troll...

Gee, you just realized?

[Zoidberg]

Can't bear to see this spread ruined by shitty scan quality so look at this instead
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5052/onepiecev29064065.png

I never noticed Norla was crying in that pic.

[taily kun]

Naruto is the absolute most hilariously bad manga in terms of art EVER, I mean holy fuck some of the stuff in there

[Pervy Fox]

^lol Are you serious? Kishi can draw both character AND backgrounds unlike other mangakas like Kubo, not many mangakas can draw good characters designs and backgrounds on a weekly shounen, the man may not be a perfect writer, but their are FAR worst manga artists out there than Kishi.

[MdB]

Naruto is the absolute most hilariously bad manga in terms of art EVER, I mean holy fuck some of the stuff in there

The same could be said about Bleach with the amount of content Kubo draws every week.

^lol Are you serious? Kishi can draw both character AND backgrounds unlike other mangakas like Kubo, not many mangakas can draw good characters designs and backgrounds on a weekly shounen, the man may not be a perfect writer, but their are FAR worst manga artists out there than Kishi.

Most of his character designs are fucking terrible since part 2.

[RivFader]

The same could be said about Bleach with the amount of content Kubo draws every week.



Most of his character designs are fucking terrible since part 2.

And bland, incredibly bland.

[Teach]

Kisame is the best.

[Hodo Astartes]

In matters of art none of them could beat Hirano or Miura but they surely play in another league anyway since they do monthly (at best).

[Pervy Fox]

Most of his character designs are fucking terrible since part 2.

lol like who? give me some examples :blinditachi

[Jotaro Kujo]

lol like who? give me some examples :blinditachi

Suigetsu
Juugo
Karin
Most of the people from the Kage meeting
Uchiha's
Nagato
Yamato
Sai

[MdB]

lol like who? give me some examples :blinditachi

Do you need an example in this damn manga? Look at every average joe that is somewhat important and you can easily see that most of them have no distintion in their character design or are barely expressive. Part 1's visual style is much better.

[Pervy Fox]

Do you need an example in this damn manga? Look at every average joe that is somewhat important and you can easily see that most of them have no distintion in their character design or are barely expressive. Part 1's visual style is much better.

Its true that part 1 art is better, and the begining of part 2 art was very bland and barely any shades, but later on his art got better, and not every character has to be specificly detailed, even Kubo and Oda knows that.

[MdB]

Its true that part 1 art is better, and the begining of part 2 art was very bland and barely any shades, but later on his art got better, and not every character has to be specificly detailed, even Kubo and Oda knows that.

What exactly is the correlation between being expressive and distinctive and being detailed? And the character designs aren't detailed in the slightest, not a single one of them, how a professional artist can even churn out this shit (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c469/14.html) is beyond me.

[Han Solo]

What exactly is the correlation between being expressive and distinctive and being detailed? And the character designs aren't detailed in the slightest, not a single one of them, how a professional artist can even churn out this shit (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c469/14.html) is beyond me.

Yet he can, if he wants to, draw like this:

http://img09.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/47-439.0/compressed/naruto_439_sleepyfans.06_07.jpg

http://img12.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/47-439.0/compressed/naruto_439_sleepyfans.14_15.jpg

And oh, the Tobi line the cave is the pinnacle of Kishi doing shit drawing.

[MdB]

Yet he can, if he wants to, draw like this:

http://img09.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/47-439.0/compressed/naruto_439_sleepyfans.06_07.jpg

http://img12.tx.us.mangafox.com/store/manga/8/47-439.0/compressed/naruto_439_sleepyfans.14_15.jpg

And oh, the Tobi ine thw cabe is the pinnacle of Kishi doing shit drawing.

Giant Sasuke is the best.

[Pervy Fox]

What exactly is the correlation between being expressive and distinctive and being detailed? And the character designs aren't detailed in the slightest, not a single one of them, how a professional artist can even churn out this shit (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c469/14.html) is beyond me.

Um, Whats wrong with this page, its snow and there some face panels, and if you think those designs are bad, Look at some of the characters Oda draws, they are ugly and looks like a 2 year old drew it, Im not saying all characters are bad, just some of em are horrible.

[abcd]

Dont compare different manga's here ... for each his own >_<

[MdB]

Um, Whats wrong with this page, its snow and there some face panels, and if you think those designs are bad, Look at some of the characters Oda draws, they are ugly and looks like a 2 year old drew it, Im not saying all characters are bad, just some of em are horrible.

I don't care about your pretentious crap. You're argument doesn't make any sense considering stylized art isn't a bad art form in any way possible, just because it's more abstract looking and deviating from realistic character designs doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to aesthetics. You're bitching about a cartoon looking cartoony. DOHOHOHOHOHO

It's also retarded that you resort to comparing his work with Naruto since weren't you the one mocking OPtards for their 'rational' viewpoint? Fucking lol.

[XMURADX]

I don't care about your pretentious crap. You're argument doesn't make any sense considering stylized art isn't a bad art form in any way possible, just because it's more abstract looking and deviating from realistic character designs doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to aesthetics. You're bitching about a cartoony looking cartoony. DOHOHOHOHOHO

Very well said... :quite

[The Doctor]

Um, Whats wrong with this page, its snow and there some face panels, and if you think those designs are bad, Look at some of the characters Oda draws, they are ugly and looks like a 2 year old drew it, Im not saying all characters are bad, just some of em are horrible.
you're a huge fag