China's catching up. Fortunately, we have... uh... freedom?

[dreams lie]

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Back in the 1970s, Americans saved 14 cents out of every dollar. But as the years wore on, our savings rate dropped and we bought more than we could afford when it came to housing, furniture, TVs, cars -- just about everything!

Four years ago, it got to the point where we spent three cents more than we made. So for every dollar we brought in, $1.03 went out, thanks to borrowed money.

Yet the current down economy has made us call a "timeout" on spending, whether we want to or not. Today we actually save four cents on every dollar, according to recent economic statistics. We're starting on the right path again.

Now to give you a comparison, in the People's Republic of China, people save an average of 25 percent of their paycheck. And they're pouring it into development. Watch what Clark says about free trade

I've been to China three times. I was there once in 1983. Back then, people had to walk for transportation. Only the privileged had bicycles. There were dirt roads. Most people lived in shacks and the Red Army was everywhere. In fact, I could only go around with a Red Army escort. It was a scary kind of place.

Then I went back in 1994 and things had changed so much. There were nicely paved roads, nice buildings and one of the towns I visited even had a McDonald's. Having been in China before where the food was inedible, as soon as I saw that McDonald's I was in that place having my double cheeseburger!

I had an opportunity to go back to China earlier this year. Once each year, I take my staff on a trip somewhere in the world -- wherever goes on sale. We pick the dates and then wait for someplace to go on discount and that's where we go. This year it was Shanghai on Delta Airlines for $850 round-trip.

The changes I saw this time blew me away even more than ever. I stepped off the plane in Shanghai and I was in the most modern airport terminal I've ever set foot in. Shanghai has a population of 22 million. In 1988, the tallest building in the city was 20 stories. Since then, more than 5,000 buildings expanding 15 stories or taller have been constructed.

The Chinese are working their tails off. I want you to know we have some serious competition in the world.

But we will be fine because we have something they don't have: We have freedom. And the power of that freedom is unbelievable. To do what you want, say what you want, live where you want.

In America, whenever we have felt like we were looking in the rearview mirror to see good stuff, we always manage to figure out a way to have good stuff happen to us in the future.

I think back to 1980. We were in the worst recession since the Great Depression, and Japan was on the rise. At the time, we thought Japan was going to have us for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I remember we used to have the Detroit autoworkers beat up an old Japanese car with sledgehammers. Like that would stop Toyota! We were just sure they were going to own all of us -- "Japan Inc." they used to call it.

Well, guess what happened? We came back from those tough times and did great. And we'll do so again. Just as the Japanese were tough competition 29 years ago, I can tell you the Chinese are tough competition today.

But we'll do fine because we have that freedom and we know how to innovate and educate. Those things truly matter.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/05/20/clark.howard.china/

Is this guy fucking serious? :lmao :lmao

I mean honestly, just because Japan fell into a bubble-bust economy does not mean that China is going to end up like them. I love how he randomly got the idea that political freedom and personal freedom (while it might be useful to tackle corruption) was going to lead to our supremacy. His logic is along the lines of "Well since the last guy we faced randomly fell into a trap, surely this new guy will do the same". By the way, does this guy know that Japan has a democracy as well?

[LouDAgreat]

Yes, he is. He most likely believes every word he says. It's more patriotism than rationality, but Americans will most likely agree with him since it boosts the spirits of Americans...however American innovation isn't guaranteed..he seems to think Americans finding innovations and new technologies is a given, while the rest of the world drools at our mightiness...which is complete :facepalm.

I actually think China stands to innovate more than the U.S based on the number of engineers and scientists coming out that country compared to the u.S ...

dreams lie, if anything this should be a reflection on the poor judgment of Clark Howard(Who I've never heard or seen on CNN), not CNN in general. There are very good commentators and pundits that appear on CNN...

If anything...cNN probably gave this guy leeway with his commentary.

[dummy plug]

this attitude actually will cost him dearly, at least just himself...such self-absorbed attitudes will yield him nothing :uwah

[dreams lie]

Yes, he is. He most likely believes every word he says. It's more patriotism than rationality, but Americans will most likely agree with him since it boosts the spirits of Americans...however American innovation isn't guaranteed..he seems to think Americans finding innovations and new technologies is a given, while the rest of the world drools at our mightiness...which is complete :facepalm.

I actually think China stands to innovate more than the U.S based on the number of engineers and scientists coming out that country compared to the u.S ...

dreams lie, if anything this should be a reflection on the poor judgment of Clark Howard(Who I've never heard or seen on CNN), not CNN in general. There are very good commentators and pundits that appear on CNN...

If anything...cNN probably gave this guy leeway with his commentary.

I have largely given up on watching news networks. I went from FOX to CNN to MSNBC and frankly find all of them shitty. Their chase after ratings and viewers are so obvious that I actually decided to watch the Daily Show after a five month hiatus... just to have my hope in the media restored.

Anyways, you should know that it's an actual article not an opinion blog or anything. This guy gave me a good laugh.

[Jim]

we aren't free and we never will be.

[ShangDOh]

This is why I get my news from the BBC, sure they're biased BUT they actually have NEWS to broadcast instead of hour after hour of asinine political commentary.

[Kira Yamato]

Howard Clark was doing so much better when he just told people how to avoid paying late interest fees.

[LouDAgreat]

I have largely given up on watching news networks. I went from FOX to CNN to MSNBC and frankly find all of them shitty. Their chase after ratings and viewers are so obvious that I actually decided to watch the Daily Show after a five month hiatus... just to have my hope in the media restored.

Anyways, you should know that it's an actual article not an opinion blog or anything. This guy gave me a good laugh.

I don't stick with only one station nowadays. I listen mostly to CNN and Fox..I think MSNBC is a joke. Maybe Morning Joe, but only rarely will I listen to him.
But yes, there is a clear media bias in all the stations. If anything, I await for the Libertarian news station. :gar

John Stewart is now the the one guy I listen to consistently. Colbert is good too, but I think he's more confrontational with Republicans.

If it's not an opinion blog, I'm surprised, because this article reeks of opinion.

[dreams lie]

If it's not an opinion blog, I'm surprised, because this article reeks of opinion.

I'm just as surprised and disappointed as you.

Also, the Colbert Report is too much for me to handle. I swear, there are probably communists in his audiences, proudly applauding all of the shit he says. John Stewart is at least reasonable in his anger against conservatism.

[LouDAgreat]

I'm just as surprised and disappointed as you.

Also, the Colbert Report is too much for me to handle. I swear, there are probably communists in his audiences, proudly applauding all of the shit he says. John Stewart is at least reasonable in his anger against conservatism.

He supported the national soda tax...I was a little disappointed. But I just love how he points out hypocrisy in the Republican party. He doesn't do that much for the Democratic party.

[Stealth Tomato]

I swear, there are probably communists in his audiences, proudly applauding all of the shit he says.
Well aren't we getting nationalistic.


The article is funny because the best way to make a country grow quickly is to take away freedom. Freedom is just a bit of a hindrance to getting people to do what they should.
However, this guy isn't CNN. He's one guy who writes for them. Don't crucify a network over one writer.

Also, please give your threads reasonable titles. Yours had nothing to do with the article.

[Starr]

I dont trust CNN or Fox.. they're a bunch of conservative brown nosers.

[Stealth Tomato]

I dont trust CNN or Fox.. they're a bunch of conservative brown nosers.
What a well-informed and eloquently-stated opinion! Thank you so much for your contribution to the discussion.

[Sunuvmann]

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9116/gabylibertyprime7945485.jpg

COMMENCING TACTICAL ASSESSMENT: RED CHINESE THREAT DETECTED.

[iander]

Having been in China before where the food was inedible, as soon as I saw that McDonald's I was in that place having my double cheeseburger!


:facepalm, I should have stopped reading here. All chinese food was clearly inedible, thank god for McDonalds and the "freedom" it represents.

The sad part is that many of the posts in this thread contain even more :facepalm.

[dreams lie]

Well aren't we getting nationalistic.

Meh, I could honestly sympathize with communists easier than the Republicans or the Democrats; the ones in this forum are far more educated than your average Obamatard. However, I was just pointing out how obviously left-wing his agenda is. John Stewart makes his views known, but he values giving you the news more than bashing his opponents. Colbert could care less, and spends most of his time simply attacking one person or another.

[Inuhanyou]

i certainly don't care if china is close to or rivals us in power..competition will be good.....remember the soviets?

I hate sounding nationalistic so this article to me is a big slop of intelligible propaganda, but i feel that our good contributions are enough so that we can feel confident already in our mark in the world. The problem is our negative contributions tbh that we should be worried about

[I]

We always want brand new stuffs, but we don't have the cash.

[Shinigami Perv]

Freedom = economic prosperity? Wow, just wow. China has been the world's leading region of economic growth and allows their populace few civic freedoms.

The Japanese are "free" and have been stagnant for 20 years. What a fool.

[Sky is Over]

I will say the argument for why China's economy will eventually fumble is stagnant, but still agree with the concept that China economy's destined for a sooner than expected downturn.

[Simulacrum]

China's problem is that state capitalism is sluggish and expensive to switch gears in the face of changing economic conditions, and it creates at least as many problems as it solves. For instance, China's government has evicted an awful lot of people from rural areas to make room for industry. These mass evictions have increased China's interior migrant population into the tens if not hundreds of millions, and in the face of a stagnating economy (which is happening, since their economic growth is so heavily dependent on exports which are dropping away in the face of decreasing global demand) it leads to a lot of unemployed and malcontented people who have nowhere to go. Then there's the awful health conditions created by the hyper-industrialization itself, which is already rearing several ugly heads. I said this months ago, and I'll say it again: it's going to suck to be China in both the near and distant future.

The power of a free market is that things can happen quickly and efficiently, when people can react to changing conditions as they happen without having to wait for marching orders from above. I know the economy has taken a sharp turn towards compulsory consumerism over the last two decades, with recent months making the switch to state capitalism, but it took a Carter to get a Reagan. We can change, and not just the figureheads running the country into the ground, but for the better.

[Shinigami Perv]

China's problem is that state capitalism is sluggish and expensive to switch gears in the face of changing economic conditions, and it creates at least as many problems as it solves. For instance, China's government has evicted an awful lot of people from rural areas to make room for industry. These mass evictions have increased China's interior migrant population into the tens if not hundreds of millions, and in the face of a stagnating economy (which is happening, since their economic growth is so heavily dependent on exports which are dropping away in the face of decreasing global demand) it leads to a lot of unemployed and malcontented people who have nowhere to go. Then there's the awful health conditions created by the hyper-industrialization itself, which is already rearing several ugly heads. I said this months ago, and I'll say it again: it's going to suck to be China in both the near and distant future.

The power of a free market is that things can happen quickly and efficiently, when people can react to changing conditions as they happen without having to wait for marching orders from above. I know the economy has taken a sharp turn towards compulsory consumerism over the last two decades, with recent months making the switch to state capitalism, but it took a Carter to get a Reagan. We can change, and not just the figureheads running the country into the ground, but for the better.

What exactly is state capitalism?

[Lain]

I think he just means that free people living in an iffy economy are happier than not-so-free people living in a stable, thriving economy. After all, you can argue all you want about which economic systems are better, which systems of government are better, etc., but all that really matters is the overall happiness of the people. And I'd be much happier knowing that I have control over my own life than I'd be knowing that the economy, of all things, is a-okay.

[Simulacrum]

What exactly is state capitalism?

Where the government controls the economy through heavy use of subsidies, tax laws, and other means. The government chooses which industries, and even specific establishments of industry, get to grow or not, and essentially acts as a construct to artificially subvert market forces.

[Flagg1982]

That guy is really naive...

[Razgriez]

All those awesome F-22s only to get obliterated by some retarded chain guns. Sure they are super awesome against missile type weaponry but a good old infantry unit carrying an big ass chain gun and bring that billion dollar plane down into an fiery ball of disappointment.

Not to mention we ditched the nuke for some retarded Beam Cannon that quite frankly SUCKS! How come the Chinese get the nuke when we got 40k of them and they dont even have nearly a 100th of the number!?

Wait... are we talking about the same thing?

[Sunuvmann]

These mass evictions have increased China's interior migrant population into the tens if not hundreds of millions, and in the face of a stagnating economy (which is happening, since their economic growth is so heavily dependent on exports which are dropping away in the face of decreasing global demand) it leads to a lot of unemployed and malcontented people who have nowhere to go.
That I disagree is probably China's biggest economic strength. They have at their disposal a large disposable work force providing extremely cheap labor.

Their economy is primarily export based and so if you have a large work force at your disposal which you can pay for peanuts, you can build a shit ton and get plenty of money flowing in.

This equation obviously wouldn't work on service economies of the west which need people to spend their moneys internally but for China it works well for them.

And then with the current recession, its further adaptable such that when you have a couple hundred million living in poverty, its not like they're going to spend their moneys elsewhere so that at least cushions the domestic economy.

If there's a natural disaster though like a drought or something that tips the balance, and you get mass famine there, okay then they're in for some fuck ups. But generally speaking, its hard to tip a behemoth that big.

[Spencer_Gator]

I agree that China will eventually go downhill.

[TDM]

Anyways, you should know that it's an actual article not an opinion blog or anything. This guy gave me a good laugh.Are you sure about that? @_@ It's a very poorly written article, "we always manage to figure out a way to have good stuff happen to us in the future." It sounds like it was written by a fucking grade-school kid: almost as if someone like Colbert wrote it in jest. All those awesome F-22s only to get obliterated by some retarded chain guns. Sure they are super awesome against missile type weaponry but a good old infantry unit carrying an big ass chain gun and bring that billion dollar plane down into an fiery ball of disappointment.

Not to mention we ditched the nuke for some retarded Beam Cannon that quite frankly SUCKS! How come the Chinese get the nuke when we got 40k of them and they dont even have nearly a 100th of the number!?
I thought Generals was a good attempt at a revitalization of the C&C franchise, but the national stereotypes in it (and the lag it caused on my compy) blow'd ass.

EDIT: wait, are we talking about the same thing?I agree that China will eventually go downhill.I could've sworn it was a given that every country/nation/state will "eventually" go to shit.

[dreams lie]

Are you sure about that? @_@ It's a very poorly written article, "we always manage to figure out a way to have good stuff happen to us in the future." It sounds like it was written by a fucking grade-school kid: almost as if someone like Colbert wrote it in jest.

It is a CNN "Living" article. It's basically one of those "Personal Finance" or whatever sections many news companies have.

[TDM]

It is a CNN "Living" article. It's basically one of those "Personal Finance" or whatever sections many news companies have.So, in the end, it's just another guy talking out of his ass?

[damnhot]

No one is free No ONE

[Simulacrum]

That I disagree is probably China's biggest economic strength. They have at their disposal a large disposable work force providing extremely cheap labor.

Their economy is primarily export based and so if you have a large work force at your disposal which you can pay for peanuts, you can build a shit ton and get plenty of money flowing in.

This equation obviously wouldn't work on service economies of the west which need people to spend their moneys internally but for China it works well for them.

And then with the current recession, its further adaptable such that when you have a couple hundred million living in poverty, its not like they're going to spend their moneys elsewhere so that at least cushions the domestic economy.

If there's a natural disaster though like a drought or something that tips the balance, and you get mass famine there, okay then they're in for some fuck ups. But generally speaking, its hard to tip a behemoth that big. If hundreds of millions of poor people were the real key to success, then certainly China should be ruling the world with an iron fist by now. They're not, because the people can't take proper care of themselves so instead the government has to spend a lot of energy looking after them, as well as extensive flexing of military power to keep rebellions of the discontented masses from gaining momentum.

Since you admitted that they're addicted to exporting it should be painfully obvious that they're getting the short end of the stick during a global economic downturn - they've been closing manufacturing facilities for months over there while the workers are getting stiffed for their due wages. The biggest thing that's been keeping the citizenry pacified was the explosive economic growth, primarily along the western coast, but that's just not happening anymore. More and more Chinese are becoming unemployed and are unable to take care of themselves while tax revenue is dropping at an alarming rate. Combine this with a society that is heavily reliant on government direction and you've got a powder keg that's just waiting for a spark.

[Stealth Tomato]

All those awesome F-22s only to get obliterated by some retarded chain guns. Sure they are super awesome against missile type weaponry but a good old infantry unit carrying an big ass chain gun and bring that billion dollar plane down into an fiery ball of disappointment.
You can't take down an F-22 with a stationary chaingun. It would take a miracle just to hit one at full airspeed, especially with its altitude and turning ability.

Not to mention we ditched the nuke for some retarded Beam Cannon that quite frankly SUCKS! How come the Chinese get the nuke when we got 40k of them and they dont even have nearly a 100th of the number!?
We ditched the nuke for the sake of peace among superpowers. :huh

[Camille]

What a great down-to-earth disposition this guy has!

/:facepalm

Horribly naive, and, ugh, he was a terrible way with words. "Stuff", really?

[Cirus]

Well China is a country that is going to go downhill rather fast. It has too many people in it looking for jobs, its industry areas are dependant upon exports, and with the global pullback it is only going to get worse for them.

[dreams lie]

I think he just means that free people living in an iffy economy are happier than not-so-free people living in a stable, thriving economy. After all, you can argue all you want about which economic systems are better, which systems of government are better, etc., but all that really matters is the overall happiness of the people. And I'd be much happier knowing that I have control over my own life than I'd be knowing that the economy, of all things, is a-okay.

I don't know about you, but starving isn't exactly something I'm looking forward to.

[Stroev]

IRL negging ready to go.