Fuck Marina, frankly

[Triste Morningstar]

Obviously Saji Crossroad is the chief ruiner of everything awesome in this show what with his ability to turn any scene into a pussy wankfest just by showing up, but Marina is becoming a close second.

She just stopped Setsuna from killing the everloving shit out of Ali Al-Sarshes. Ali Al-fucking-Sarshes. You know, THAT GUY WHAT BURNED AZADISTAN AND MADE CHILD-SOLDIERS. With her stupid goddamn song.

And it's been building through the whole damn series. Her with the asking of annoying questions and the making of annoying suggestions which all lead to Setsuna being an angsty doubtfest.

Shut up, Marina. You're not going to make Setsuna stop fighting. You're just going to make him fight less effectively. Stop holding back our pilot, for fuck's sake.




Also, Shirin is too good for you. :ohpek

[ChocolateBar999]

Dear Lord! I thought we have gone past threads like these after the first half but there are still posters who seem to blame Saji and Marina for their very existence as if their presence can bring an episode down from the fleets of awesome. I admit Saji did get on my nerves in the first half (I'm not like you, I wish to return everything to how it was )but the fact that he has learned from his mistakes makes has made him tolerable in the recent episodes (plus spoilers indicate that he will play a much larger role starting in episode 17) Louise is an entire different story it seems like she's walking straight head into her demise if someone doesn't stop her (let's pray she doesn't end up like Rosemaria. Four, or Stella) and Saji may be that person since Andrei just can't get through to her though I do see him sacrificing his life for her.

And Marina seriously WHAT THE HELL CAN SHE DO IN HER CURRENT SITUATION, if she suddenly gains command of Katatron everyone will label her as another Lacus Clyne, it's more realistic to show how powerless she is in the current state of the middle east than to demonstrate her as a Mary Sue with mobile suits and commands to her whim. There's not much I can blame Marina for compared to Saji.

[Triste Morningstar]

Dear Lord! I thought we have gone past threads like these after the first half but there are still posters who seem to blame Saji and Marina for their very existence as if their presence can bring an episode down from the fleets of awesome. I admit Saji did get on my nerves in the first half (I'm not like you, I wish to return everything to how it was )but the fact that he has learned from his mistakes makes has made him tolerable in the recent episodes (plus spoilers indicate that he will play a much larger role starting in episode 17) Louise is an entire different story it seems like she's walking straight head into her demise if someone doesn't stop her (let's pray she doesn't end up like Rosemaria. Four, or Stella) and Saji may be that person since Andrei just can't get through to her though I do see him sacrificing his life for her.

And Marina seriously WHAT THE HELL CAN SHE DO IN HER CURRENT SITUATION, if she suddenly gains command of Katatron everyone will label her as another Lacus Clyne, it's more realistic to show how powerless she is in the current state of the middle east than to demonstrate her as a Mary Sue with mobile suits and commands to her whim. There's not much I can blame Marina for compared to Saji.

WHAT CAN SHE DO, YOU ASK?

SHE CAN SHUT HER WHORE MOUTH

IS WHAT SHE CAN DO

[ChocolateBar999]

WHAT CAN SHE DO, YOU ASK?

SHE CAN SHUT HER WHORE MOUTH

IS WHAT SHE CAN DO
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8337/facepalmls4.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Okay, I'm wasting my time here, how long till this thread ends up in the junk heap.

[Red Zaku]

http://carlnet.no-ip.org/facepalm_implied.jpg

This is my response to topic.

[Rukia]

Marina has been a terrible character this season. Babysitting orphans and forming a choir with them? Seriously? That's the role Sunrise came up with for her? Talk about a desperate attempt to keep her relevant. It's idiotic.

Every minute of every episode spent showing Marina's interaction with the children is a minute wasted.

[LeafWolfie]

It's obvious that she's been emo, but she may grow out of it

[Blaze of Glory]

The bitch ain't do shit :zaru

[Shodai]

Marina has been a terrible character this season. Babysitting orphans and forming a choir with them? Seriously? That's the role Sunrise came up with for her? Talk about a desperate attempt to keep her relevant. It's idiotic.

Every minute of every episode spent showing Marina's interaction with the children is a minute wasted.

If you actually listened to what she said this episode instead of counting down the moments until the giant mechas appear, you'd be less pissed off. Go rewatch the excellent character development Setsuna and Marina went through this episode.

[ChocolateBar999]

Marina has been a terrible character this season. Babysitting orphans and forming a choir with them? Seriously? That's the role Sunrise came up with for her? Talk about a desperate attempt to keep her relevant. It's idiotic.

Every minute of every episode spent showing Marina's interaction with the children is a minute wasted.

The bitch ain't do shit :zaru
That's the point she can't do anything in this situation so that's the reason why she's taking care of the children because that's what's the best in her ability is to coup with them about the hardships of war. Do you people what her to hop in a mobile suit or throw command of Katatron because she'll be another damn Lacus clone if she does, Seriously tell me what the hell can she do? She has no skills that could mend ties within the cell groups of Katatron like Shirin, so......?

[Shodai]

She's done pretty well for herself, actually. She's made a deep friend in the strongest MS pilot in the Earth system and Shirin, a leader of Kataron. Without those she'd probably be in prison somewhere right now.

[Red Zaku]

She's done pretty well for herself, actually. She's made a deep friend in the strongest MS pilot in the Earth system and Shirin, a leader of Kataron. Without those she'd probably be in prison somewhere right now.


Probably trapped under a burning building since the only reason she was locked up was because Ribbon's wanted to use her to draw out Setsuna.

[RED MINOTAUR~!]

Go rewatch the excellent character development Setsuna and Marina went through this episode.

Lul wut u say?

[Rukia]

Go rewatch the excellent character development Setsuna and Marina went through this episode.Look. We are 40 episodes into this show now. It may be hard to believe...but some of us don't consider Marina/Setsuna interaction to be all that interesting. If I were watching this on television...I would change the channel during their scenes. Generally, I just skip ahead to a later scene in the episode. They haven't interested me in 40 episodes and they probably never will. Sorry.

[Red Zaku]

Look. We are 40 episodes into this show now. It may be hard to believe...but some of us don't consider Marina/Setsuna interaction to be all that interesting.

x.x So the show should cater specifically to your tastes and alienate all others who disagree? Awesome.

If I were watching this on television...I would change the channel during their scenes.

Then skip them in the video and stop WAAHING'. This is precisely why you should have looked at implied facepalm...

Generally, I just skip ahead to a later scene in the episode. They haven't interested me in 40 episodes and they probably never will. Sorry.

And apparently you're the only person this show should try to please.

[reaperunique]

I agree with Red Zaku and ChocolateBar999.

Marina may not have such a hugh role like setsuna but she for one doesn't annoy me like Bill and mister.
And maybe you'e forgotten but she's a prinsess of a ruined country, and to compare it to the real world for a bit, have you ever seen a prinsess being interested in weapons and the militairy(besides the militairy defilé) or a prinsess who was in the militairy?

prinsess Mathilde(Belgium) for example does pretty much the exact same thing as Marina, taking care of the people and smile even when there is nothing to smile about.

She is doing the best she can. Mister on the other hand is just reduced to nothing but a test pilot for Bill's new mech's with technology he has "stolen". And will probably die as Fodder. And if somebody has a popularity poll from japan we can easily find out if he really has become useless.

If it wasn't for Marina Setsuna would still be lost with his thoughts, ok for now he is still somewhat at loss but Marina is trying to help him.
It may be true that thanks to marina he didn't kill Ali but I'm sure that he will by the end of the show.

[Wesley]

I don't think people hate Marina for her role as a figurehead. I think they hate her due to her narrow role of acting as a foilable to Setsuna. Basically she shows how worthless he is as a man.

[Masurao]

Lol...chill Red Zaku. If Rukia doesn't like the characters...then he doesn't like them. I don't really have any issue with it.

[Wesley]

Going to break my own rule here for a second.

x.x So the show should cater specifically to your tastes and alienate all others who disagree? Awesome.

No, that's not what he's saying. He wants Marina's role in the series to be expanded and for her to be more relevant. Her situation and character to be elaborated on. If that were to happen, do you really think the audience would be alienated by it? That people would actually be satisifed with Marina's very limited role in the series is disappointing, if not outrageous.

Then skip them in the video and stop WAAHING'. This is precisely why you should have looked at implied facepalm...

Stop treating people badly simply because you've decided that you've been offended.

And apparently you're the only person this show should try to please.

I suspect pleasing his pallet would satisfy quite a few people.

[Rukia]

Heh, Shodai referred to the interaction as excellent. I was simply making my case for why I didn't consider it excellent. I don't think I was particularly cruel about it either.

[Wesley]

Heh, Shodai referred to the interaction as excellent. I was simply making my case for why I didn't consider it excellent. I don't think I was particularly cruel about it either.

So...was that a clear cut case of projection? :zaru

[Red Zaku]

Going to break my own rule here for a second.

Awesome so I read more epic failure then usual from you? Awesome.

No, that's not what he's saying. He wants Marina's role in the series to be expanded and for her to be more relevant.

Except that's the opposite of what Rukia actually typed, stating and I quote "Look. We are 40 episodes into this show now. It may be hard to believe...but some of us don't consider Marina/Setsuna interaction to be all that interesting."

That sounds less like I want more Marina development and a hell of a lot less MArina x Setsuna which is where both characters get development from..... Rukia just stated she doesn't want that to continue....

Her situation and character to be elaborated on. If that were to happen, do you really think the audience would be alienated by it?

No, but that's NOT what was said or implied by what she/he said in the slightest.

Stop treating people badly simply because you've decided that you've been offended.

It's called sarcasm, live it, learn it, love it! :D I can give a sarcastic response to posts that amount to little more then complaining because a character pairing they don't like got screen time.

I suspect pleasing his pallet would satisfy quite a few people.

Yes, if only his pallet was actually what you thought it was. But what you thought it was flat out contradicts what was actually said on the subject....

[Goodfellow]

Actually, I think Marina is a rather interesting subversion of the archetypical gundam femme we've had these last few years (Relena, Lacus Clyne).

Sure, she's musical. Sure, she's a princess. Sure, she's a pacifist.

But she can't actually do shit about anything:lmao

Unfortunately I'm afraid that that peace song is a loaded pacifist gun in future plot development, and that would sadly change everything.

Anyway, during its run 00 has subverted many of the typical stock gundam tropes. Marina seems to be another one of these. Surprise, the princess is worthless!

edit: Also, Red Zaku, for the love of god, stop harassing Wesley will you? You two ain't achieving nothing besides annoying the hell out of rest of us by bashing heads together in every single thread in the goddamn section.

[Teleq]

I like Marina and I hate Saji.

Also, this is my first Gundam so I don't know if she's just some recycled character from another like some people seem to be saying.

[Wesley]

Actually, I think Marina is a rather interesting subversion of the archetypical gundam femme we've had these last few years (Relena, Lacus Clyne).

Sure, she's musical. Sure, she's a princess. Sure, she's a pacifist.

But she can't actually do shit about anything:lmao

Unfortunately I'm afraid that that peace song is a loaded pacifist gun in future plot development, and that would sadly change everything.

Anyway, during its run 00 has subverted many of the typical stock gundam tropes. Marina seems to be another one of these. Surprise, the princess is worthless!

I think it'd be cool if Setsuna murdered her in cold blood. "I'm trying to do something and you're stopping me, DIE!" It'd make sense and complete the transition for him from mindless robot to madman.

[寫輪眼]

So far the anime characters that I hate. Nunnally and the green hair ugly scientist girl in CG that I refuse to type her name out.

And Marina...is she like them...in my opinion, no. So I have nothing against her. The only problem I have with this God Damn Gundam series is that it needs faster plot developing and more Gundam kicking ass scenes.

Teleq, what's your sig on? It's pretty cool. I can't keep my eye off the monster thingy in the end.

[Goodfellow]

I think it'd be cool if Setsuna murdered her in cold blood. "I'm trying to do something and you're stopping me, DIE!" It'd make sense and complete the transition for him from mindless robot to madman.

Techincally Setsuna isn't emotionless. He's the one of the meisters who usually boils over.

Thing is that his face is as expressionate as Keanu Reeves'.

Or a brick if you prefer that metaphor:zaru

Anyway, you should be pleased Wesley. If Setsuna starts to follow Marina's ideology he'll be the first of the meisters to realize what flaming hypocrites they are:lmao

edit: Teleq's sig looks as its from the Hellsing. I'd guess the OVA, but I'm not certain:zaru

[Wesley]

I know he has emotions. My question is if he actually has a mind of his own. He acts out, but whether he's geninuely thoughtful is something else entirely. And I think it's been implied ever since the first season that they know they're hypocrites, but they either don't care or think they'll gladly surrender themselves to earthly justice once the world is saved. By them, naturally. So that they can fullfill their martyr fantasises.

As for Marina's wish for everyone to simply stop fighting and to please think of the children, well, it's cliche and shows how much of a coward she is. You'd think losing her title was the first personal loss she had ever experienced.

I mean, Lacus lost her dad and she didn't cry once until it was safe to do so, with Kira there for her being. Marina though, she's nothing but a glass of misguided empathy overflowing.

...You know, as stupid as Shirin made Marina feel every chance she got, you'd think she would have been honest with her about her real reason for leaving; that she thought the country was a lost cause and that Marina was worthless.

Pretending they're friends after leaving her when she needed her most. What a bitch.

[Silvermateus]

for one, yes marina is pretty pointless, and setsunaxmarina has EPIC FAIL written all over it. And i agree, why the hell did you stop Setsuna killing Ali Al fuckin'Saches?.. grrr.
I think Setsuna is putting his pussy on a pedestal.

And... Red Zaku, why do you have to argue for the sake of arguing? this guy puts down his view, which is a pretty decent view and alot of people agree, and you give some crappy OMG IMPLIED FACEPALM reply? come on, grow up =D we cant all agree with your narrow mindedness.

[RED MINOTAUR~!]

I like Marina and I hate Saji.

Also, this is my first Gundam so I don't know if she's just some recycled character from another like some people seem to be saying.

In pretty much every Gundam show there's a female character who takes in a bunch of orphans. Sometimes they're useless (Fa and that nameless girl from F91), and sometimes they're Lacus Clyne (ie. extremely important character). I kind of liked Frau Bow but I think she was somewhere in the middle.

Marina joins the useless list. I liked it in the first series (I will say this a hell of a lot about Gundam 00 in the future) when she knew she was kind of powerless but she at least TRIED. Do you people get that? She TRIED. Foreign negotiations, etc. In Part 2 all she's done is either stand there with some nameless orphans who are cooler than her and sing. Accept that people have a legit reason to dislike her, and stop spending 20 minutes writing some epicly long and boring reply that we don't read.

[Wesley]

Marina actually succeeded in gaining UN assistance for a microwave reciever. That Midboss was the one she appealed to probably didn't matter, I would hope, but the fact that the reciever was completely destroyed by Ali later, using the Enact he had stolen from the AEU, which had only provided it to him because of the threat of Celestial Being...

Tell me again why Celestial Being is supposed to be a force for order in the world?

[Red Zaku]

Marina actually succeeded in gaining UN assistance for a microwave reciever. That Midboss was the one she appealed to probably didn't matter, I would hope, but the fact that the reciever was completely destroyed by Ali later, using the Enact he had stolen from the AEU, which had only provided it to him because of the threat of Celestial Being...

Tell me again why Celestial Being is supposed to be a force for order in the world?


It wasn't that was never the point of Celestial Being. The entire point was to piss the wrodl off enought hat they would combine and unit as one world, one people instead of playing the political chess game that existed for centuries. They were never intended to be the force for order in the world ever.... That was just the convient mission statement made to hide their actual goals...

[Triste Morningstar]

For you guys who say they like the Setsuna/Marina interaction, I honestly for the life of me cannot understand why. If anything, that's my least favorite part. Every interaction amounts to the same thing:

Marina: You don't have to fight!
Setsuna: *brood*

It gets old. And the way in which Marina expresses this is annoying. It's one thing to make serious ideological arguments against what Celestial Being is doing, but saying "Setsuna, fighting makes you unhappy so fuck your ideals and come sleep with me, lolololololo" is just annoying.

[Tre_azam]

shes a waste of screen time, end of!
unless she magically gets in a gundam and nukes the entire planet (sarcasm), she will and always will be a boring and useless character, whose only significance is to prevent setsuna from being awesome.

[Shodai]

But they were clearly flirting with each other is some odd azadistani way

EVEN THE KIDS REALISED THIS :pek

[Triste Morningstar]

But they were clearly flirting with each other is some odd azadistani way

EVEN THE KIDS REALISED THIS :pek

Their romance is sort of boring, to be honest. :apathy

I just feel like Marina was sort of a wasted character: she could have been sort of a voice of reason within the "good guys" side, someone who was a good character who would still be able to disagree with Celestial Being on an ideological level. She could have been an advocate of pacifism from a philosophical standpoint and had the balls to stand up and say "what Celestial Being is doing is bad, fucking stop it." Instead she's reduced to the typical "can't we all just get along" character, because god forbid anyone who is opposed to what CB is doing have a leg to stand on intellectually.

This is the reason I love Kati Mannequin so much. Because she knows what Celestial Being wants, she opposes their methods because she believes they are fighting for a fairy-tale goal, and she even has an alternative solution to the problem of war - to make it as painless as possible through her strategies. But Marina? She opposes what they're doing because it makes Setsuna sad and less willing to hop in bed with her, and her alternative solution is that we all hold hands and sing songs.

[Goodfellow]

I just feel like Marina was sort of a wasted character: she could have been sort of a voice of reason within the "good guys" side, someone who was a good character who would still be able to disagree with Celestial Being on an ideological level. She could have been an advocate of pacifism from a philosophical standpoint and had the balls to stand up and say "what Celestial Being is doing is bad, fucking stop it." Instead she's reduced to the typical "can't we all just get along" character, because god forbid anyone who is opposed to what CB is doing have a leg to stand on intellectually.

That role will probably played properly by Saji though. Sooner or later.

Or he becomes a gun-totting maniac. Fuck I don't know:zaru

[Triste Morningstar]

That role will probably played properly by Saji though. Sooner or later.

Or he becomes a gun-totting maniac. Fuck I don't know:zaru

I don't know, I've always seen him as sort of an archetypal "good-natured but apathetic first-worlder" who is meant to represent us, the viewer. I feel that Marina could better play this role because she knows what it is to live in a hellhole. It's one thing to be a pacifist when you're on top of the world, but it's another thing entirely to be against war when you're the one being oppressed, you're the one with a reason to fight.

[RAGING BONER]

WHAT CAN SHE DO, YOU ASK?

SHE CAN SHUT HER WHORE MOUTH

IS WHAT SHE CAN DO

i lol'd my ass of at this for some reason.

[Wesley]

I don't know, I've always seen him as sort of an archetypal "good-natured but apathetic first-worlder" who is meant to represent us, the viewer. I feel that Marina could better play this role because she knows what it is to live in a hellhole. It's one thing to be a pacifist when you're on top of the world, but it's another thing entirely to be against war when you're the one being oppressed, you're the one with a reason to fight.

I think that's not really what Saji is. He's good natured, but he's not apathetic. I used to sympathise with his character until he started working for them, but I still understand what he's going through. If he's meant to represent the First World, if anything it shows us to be indecisive and prone to mistakes just like everyone else.

Personally, I resent the assertion that people simply don't care because they enjoy a nice standard of living. That because people have material wealth, they're automatically nobby buffoons that think of nothing but puffy hair? Or the next business oppurtunity? That just because you can enjoy freedom and success, you are numbed to the perils of the world, or that other people shouldn't aspire to live a better life.

[Triste Morningstar]

I think that's not really what Saji is. He's good natured, but he's not apathetic. I used to sympathise with his character until he started working for them, but I still understand what he's going through. If he's meant to represent the First World, if anything it shows us to be indecisive and prone to mistakes just like everyone else.

Personally, I resent the assertion that people simply don't care because they enjoy a nice standard of living. That because people have material wealth, they're automatically nobby buffoons that think of nothing but puffy hair? Or the next business oppurtunity? That just because you can enjoy freedom and success, you are numbed to the perils of the world, or that other people shouldn't aspire to live a better life.

Well, he's not apathetic in that he looks at suffering and says "I don't give a shit." He's apathetic in the way most people are apathetic - if it doesn't affect them personally, they make proper sympathetic noises and probably even feel bad, but otherwise do little or nothing.

And obviously it's true that not all wealthy/lucky people are apathetic or uncaring. That Wang Liu Mei chick has more money than she knows what to do with, but she still seems to want to end war, and she's willing to do pretty much anything to achieve that goal. But Saji's actions have pretty much shown that he is not (or at least initially was not) able to relate to and fully understand the problems of people living in War Zones, by the way he has acted carelessly and put others in danger not through malice but by simply not understanding what the hell is going on. I guess apathetic is not quite the right word - ignorant might be better. And I'll acknowledge that he's getting better in that regard. But I suspect his role will be more along the lines of teachings us that it's unhealthy to stay ignorant of/apathetic towards world affairs just because they don't affect us directly rather than making an ideological argument in favor of pacifism.

I could be wrong, though. We'll see how his character plays out.

[Wesley]

Well, he's not apathetic in that he looks at suffering and says "I don't give a shit." He's apathetic in the way most people are apathetic - if it doesn't affect them personally, they make proper sympathetic noises and probably even feel bad, but otherwise do little or nothing.

Or he thinks there's nothing he can do. Or he thinks it'll cost too much. Or that if they can't help themselves, how is he supposed to be able to? Not to mention the prospect of failure.

Thinking because you have known suffering first hand, that to know suffering is to know how to stop it, how stupid and presumptious. I have empathy for the sake of understanding people, not to be swayed by them into doing something that feels right at the time.

[Rob`]

i do get bored of her

setsuna should either stick it in her or go stick it in feldt (obviously has no interest in setsuna but hot)

[Triste Morningstar]

Or he thinks there's nothing he can do. Or he thinks it'll cost too much. Or that if they can't help themselves, how is he supposed to be able to? Not to mention the prospect of failure.

Thinking because you have known suffering first hand, that to know suffering is to know how to stop it, how stupid and presumptious. I have empathy for the sake of understanding people, not to be swayed by them into doing something that feels right at the time.

Why is it that you feel the need to take everything I say and extrapolate it to make it mean something completely different? At what point did I ever say that feeling suffering always means knowing how to stop it? I didn't fucking say that ever. But the fact of the matter is that coming from such a background does offer a different perspective on things, and to say otherwise is just stupid. You can say that you feel empathy with people in the third world, and that may be true, but unless you've walked a mile in a person's shoes, you don't have the same perspective as they do. The series could have used her unique perspective as a vehicle for intelligent discourse, but instead they decided to make her the designated love interest. That is all I'm trying to say. I don't know where the fuck you're getting this idea that I'm saying that first worlders are incapable of giving a shit or that third-worlders necessarily know what the fuck they're talking about.

To say that Saji has seriously thought through his situation and has made a calculated decision that acting to help would be impossible is just to totally misunderstand his character. He is a lost confused kid who is still working towards getting his bearings. It would be one thing if he wasn't helping because of those reasons you gave, but those very clearly aren't his reasons. Again and again, the reasons for his actions (and his inactions, in some cases) are that he is a kid who is scared shitless by the situation he is in. This may change in the future, but right now, if he doesn't pull a trigger, it's not because he's been reading about Gandhi, it's because he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to blow another human being to pieces.

[Wesley]

I wasn't talking about Saji specifically. I was speaking of first worlders in general. Calling apathy is simply contemptous. Like you said, there's ignorance, but mostly there's knowing, stakes, and chances of failure. The arguement for anything. Basically I was agreeing with you, but also elaborated the position that first-worlders aren't simply apathetic.

Though I disagree that experience changes anything at all. Experience might alter your outlook on life, compell you to do something, but it doesn't necessarily teach you how to do something or justify doing something. It's merely playing people's sympathises if all it has is passion and a sob story.

It adds to your credibility in an arguement, but doesn't grant you some unique insight into how the world should work.

That's one of the main things wrong with last season. There was no sense of urgency for anything to be done. Supposedly Celestial Being was founded to ensure humanity didn't wipe itself out. Well, that's all well and good, but whether or not it's necessary is something else.

Suffice to say, the world was generally at peace. Major conflicts seemed to be a thing of the past and international terrorism seemed to revolve around one man that was doing it for the lulz. And unless you lived in a shithole, you probably weren't in too bad of shape.

Like, everyone in Celestial Being has a sob story, but really as near as can be told, they're the only ones with any sob stories.

[Goodfellow]

Suffice to say, the world was generally at peace. Major conflicts seemed to be a thing of the past and international terrorism seemed to revolve around one man that was doing it for the lulz. And unless you lived in a shithole, you probably weren't in too bad of shape.

That's just bullshit. Half off the first season was spent on CB meddling in conflicts, or have you forgotten?

[Wesley]

That's just bullshit. Half off the first season was spent on CB meddling in conflicts, or have you forgotten?

Not at all. However, what conflicts could be considered to be particularly major? Or not as a result of living in a shithole?

[Red Zaku]

Not at all. However, what conflicts could be considered to be particularly major? Or not as a result of living in a shithole?

Who put them in that shit hole? The world government... The world government set up a situation to perpetuate conflict largely and more then likely as a meants to justify not only it's existance but that of the A-Law's as well. War's don't suddenly not count simply because they result from living in a poor world regoin.

[Wesley]

Who put them in that shit hole? The world government... The world government set up a situation to perpetuate conflict largely and more then likely as a meants to justify not only it's existance but that of the A-Law's as well. War's don't suddenly not count simply because they result from living in a poor world regoin.

I'm speaking of last season. The way the scenario was built up, the world seemed to be in relatively good condition and had been for quite some time. Places that have historically had conflict for whatever reason, continued to do so. Not to say that it's impossible for those areas to be rehabilitated, but it would take more than a couple jerkoffs in big suits of armor flying in every couple years, tearing shit up, and then leaving.

Symbolism and fear only gets you so far. Maybe that was the idea, but them dying with a perverted, unholistic sense of martyrdom doesn't really serve anyone, while handedly serving their own damn egoes and sense of worthlessness. "I died for what I believed to be a good cause while knowingly working for an organization I really knew nothing about" well whoop-de-f-ing do, and may God have mercy on your soul.

But I digress.

The first season insinuates that the world is mostly civilized. There's a status quo in place that leaves oppurtunity for growth while fostering a sense of restrained, yet healthy competition. Tensions are low, not to say they can't escaluate, but it seems that relations have more in common with America's and France's on a bad day, rather than America's and the Soviet Union's on a good.

Sure, there are evil people doing evil things, sometimes with legitimate backing, but it's not like there's flagrant disregard for people's individual well being taking place thoughout the four corners of the Earth. Ali gets by on changing his name every f-ing day, while finding the right sort of people to work for. Goggle-eyed mad science guys get by on living in an isolated space colony, that's impractical to scrutinize up-close. A-Laws arrest people for opening their damned mouths for the same reason.

It happens. Grow the f- up and accept it, but never permise it.

Anyway, change of topic, I much prefer Full Metal Panic to this series. Mythril is basically Celestial Being, except it's a real private and respectible organization that has something to offer the world, not only in terms of political stability, but technological progression. Not only are the people in it good people, they respect political boundaries and enjoy support from national militaries from time to time.

Hell, Tessa used American naval submarines for training drills, Crazy Ivan style. It's unofficial, it's kind of dangerous, but it really isn't since rumors exist for a reason. That there's some super advanced submarine out there, Captain'd by a very cute and good natured 16 year old girl that is entitled to a little mischief while exercising her crew in an operational sense. Basically, as a man, appreciate that she's harmless, and your own limitations in being able to stop a potentional threat as it exists.

Celestial Being doesn't foster any of those ideals. They're presumptive of their own righteousness founded in their own sense of victimhood. They don't talk with anyone. They don't negotiate. They don't deliever technologies through official channels, merely using dummy coporations like Mid-boss's and even then, the series conveys the sense that he was simply acting in his own self-interest while laughing at how sick the world is. That he stole the technology, rather than having it bequeathed at the right time for common interests, his own and the larger world's.

I could think about Celestial Being and it's interconnectedness to the world in it which it exists, fully appreciating the situation, however, that would be doing this series a service I truly do not believe that it deserves. But even Sunrise employess need to eat I guess.

[Red Zaku]

I'm speaking of last season.

So you're speaking about the season in which Celestial Being's goal was actually to unite the world, when the cause of stopping all conflicts was just the guise, the cover up, the completely fake reason they were operating to hide their real motive?

The way the scenario was built up, the world seemed to be in relatively good condition and had been for quite some time.

x.x Based on what? Because the 3 world Superior powers weren't killing each other? Of course they were funding private wars in sections of the world in which it was to there benefit to have the locals killing each other etc..

Places that have historically had conflict for whatever reason, continued to do so. Not to say that it's impossible for those areas to be rehabilitated, but it would take more than a couple jerkoffs in big suits of armor flying in every couple years, tearing shit up, and then leaving.

You miss the point of last season. That was never the goal of Celestial Being last season. How many times must it be said their true goal was to unite all three super powers as one nation last season. The stopping wars thing was a cover.


Symbolism and fear only gets you so far.

It's gotten Dicaitors seats of power all around the world. Clearly the limit is only on how effective you can use them to get where you want to go.

Maybe that was the idea, but them dying with a perverted, unholistic sense of martyrdom doesn't really serve anyone,

OF course them dieing if it unites the world as one common entity would then obviously serve a purpose. So it's not an unserving sense of martyrdom. It's literal martyrdom.

while handedly serving their own damn egoes and sense of worthlessness.

Don't you mean usefulness? >.> They'd be doing it in your example to make themselves feel useful, and thus worth something. Now if you were stating they all thought initially they were worthless ok, but you phrased it and wrong, and I'd still completely disagree with that statement, but at least it would make for a better flowing sentence.

"I died for what I believed to be a good cause while knowingly working for an organization I really knew nothing about"

Umm..... isn't that just a lie you're telling yourself to justify why you don't like CB? Not only did none of them ever claim to know nothing about their organization, it's the oppposite. They thought they knew the truth about CB's goals the entire time.

well whoop-de-f-ing do, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Well god is supposed to be merciful....

The first season insinuates that the world is mostly civilized.

x.x The first season insuates the world is just like it is now. Where a majority of the nations with power living in peace while they finance and fund conflicts in other regions of the world to the benefit of their nation, while also collectively raping the middle east for it's years of exploitation of their status as developed nations by holding oil over their heads for a a few centuries.

There's a status quo in place that leaves oppurtunity for growth while fostering a sense of restrained, yet healthy competition.

Even the intro to season 1 says it. The 3 nations were all playing a Zero Sum Game of chess, a glorified pissing contest to see which was better and which two were going to crumble in the wake of the other. It was a cold war like situation with zero cooperation between any of them, aside for a mutual hatred for the middle east it seems by a global oil embargo.

Tensions are low,

I point to season 1 intro. ZERO SUM GAME! They were competing Cold War style to see who would be the last one left standing. This is precisely why they had to do things like strategic arms limitations, etc. Which as was illustrated in season1 was already broken by the AEU.

not to say they can't escaluate, but it seems that relations have more in common with America's and France's on a bad day, rather than America's and the Soviet Union's on a good.

x.x But it was America and the Soviet Union even described as such by the Intro. It's why the Human Reform League had people fighting proxy wars to keep any nation from oocupying the terroritory where it's Orbital Elevator's power cables ran though. So the HRL could maintain totally indepedant of aid from anyone, and why the AEU never announced that it's Orbital Elevator still wasn't completed yet, and never asked for help from either the HRL or Union.

Sure, there are evil people doing evil things, sometimes with legitimate backing, but it's not like there's flagrant disregard for people's individual well being taking place thoughout the four corners of the Earth.

>.> Ok, so what do you call the HRL's action of supporting both sides of a Civil War to ensure open supply lines for it's Solar Generation System? I'd call that flagrant disregard for peoples individual welling being.

It happens. Grow the f- up and accept it, but never permise it.

The point is it shouldn't happen and it's because it shouldn't happen IE people getting arrested for speaking their minds publically that people like our founding fathers advocated over throwing Governments that don't work for the people.

Celestial Being doesn't foster any of those ideals.

>.> Neither does Mythril. They promote those ideas and ideals but they don't foster them with rogue mercenary action in anyway.

They're presumptive of their own righteousness founded in their own sense of victimhood.

What victimhood? What sense of victimhood? War hurt me so end war? Isn't that the belief structure of Kira Yamato, Amuro Ray, Uso Evan, Seabook Arno, oh hell it's pretty much the motivation of every main character and side character close to the main since the original Gundam.

They don't talk with anyone. They don't negotiate.

They never talked beyond Aeolia's speech... and they never negotiated ever... How can you add anymore to that first statement is beyond me. Why you think stopping all war is up for negotiation is also beyond me.

They don't deliever technologies through official channels, merely using dummy coporations like Mid-boss's and even then, the series conveys the sense that he was simply acting in his own self-interest while laughing at how sick the world is.

..... CB was never supposed to give technology away..... In fact they make it pretty clear in series the fake Solar Reactors aren't meant to exist at all and the reaosn they do is not because it's Aeolia's plan but because it's Ribbon's idea.

[Goodfellow]

Not at all. However, what conflicts could be considered to be particularly major? Or not as a result of living in a shithole?

So war doesn't count if it's between two small countries or if it's as a result of living in poor conditions:zaru?

[Wesley]

So war doesn't count if it's between two small countries or if it's as a result of living in poor conditions:zaru?

No, just that ending wars in places that suck because the land sucks shouldn't be expected to be easy. Not that simply making land not suck or moving people will solve everything, but it's to be understood if a place is hard to live that the people there will be hard, but not better, because of it. That a prolonged time of prosperity that has ended, may lead to a downfall if the people aren't prepared for it, spiritually if nothing else.

[Fubar]

Honestly I think that rather then watch their interaction as it is right now most people would rather watch a documentary on the making of shredded wheat. I do hope for a bit more and so generally watch it but.......meh.

[Gaara816]

you guys post reallly long responses.

marina is just the love interest that gves the main character some one to protect/ come back to? shes going to bea reason for setsuna to go crazy and fight harder imo, even though thast the exact opposite fo what shes trying to do. maybe she'll get captured?

[JujuXChoJu]

I think Marina its going to be the voice of the furture although how much i hate her.:cry

[son_michael]

lol red zaku owns again:laugh



Marina really dosen't do anything but give setsuna a way out of his world of war...it dosen't really bother me that she's not doing anything,show me a nice epilougue of setsuna and marina living together and im happy:zaru




and lol Marina didn't puposely stop setsuna from killing ali :rofl

[Chatulio]

god damn Releena Peacecraft wannabees bring mother fucking children s choir into my mother fucking gundam :pek

[Goodfellow]

No, just that ending wars in places that suck because the land sucks shouldn't be expected to be easy. Not that simply making land not suck or moving people will solve everything, but it's to be understood if a place is hard to live that the people there will be hard, but not better, because of it. That a prolonged time of prosperity that has ended, may lead to a downfall if the people aren't prepared for it, spiritually if nothing else.

Good luck telling that to the men inside the big mechas who are busy killing each others:zaru

[Wesley]

Good luck telling that to the men inside the big mechas who are busy killing each others:zaru

The answer is obvious then; I need a mecha of my own. :zaru

[Silvermateus]

red zaku and wesley :) and all those long responders, dont over analyse the show... i dont watch it to discover deeeeep meaning of our world etc etc :) i watch it for the cool action and cliffhnagers, and im sure many ohter people do too, whats the point of over analysing a tv show that will be over soon? waste of time in my opinion, and stop arguing over something so pointless, theres no bloody point, unless your red zaku and just like aggrevating EVERYONE :zaru

[Wesley]

You know, they probably programmed fighting moves into the Gundams, kind of like how they make characters in fighting games. This is how they move when you hit the A button. This is how they move when you perform a combo which would look like this. Hitting this button performs a block. Sure, the OS of a Gundam is likely way more complicated than a fighting games coding, but the controls likely aren't since they're supposed to be used by a human being.

So with that in mind, I guess a Gundam would represent the brokenly powerful hidden boss character that a person could only really beat if the AI is set to low or the person behind the controls sucks.

And I guess that's why Setsuna is a Meister. They found him and used him to help program fighting moves into their melee suit. And since he could follow orders, they let him fly it around. Basically there's no special reason why the little f-er is where he is besides the fact that he was there and he could fight without thinking too much about it.

Setsuna is not special and Marina is way too good for him.

[son_michael]

Setsuna is a gundam meister because ribbons hacked veda and made it that way:edu



see wesley these are the things you would learn if you actually watched the series you bash

[Wesley]

Setsuna is a gundam meister because ribbons hacked veda and made it that way:edu



see wesley these are the things you would learn if you actually watched the series you bash

Imagine my disappointment. A logical reason for why and how Setsuna is a useful member of Celestial Being and it's really all on the whim of a faggoty andriod accounting for nothing else other than Setsuna was simply there?

[Biolink]

Imagine my disappointment. A logical reason for why and how Setsuna is a useful member of Celestial Being and it's really all on the whim of a faggoty andriod accounting for nothing else other than Setsuna was simply there?

Not only because he was there, because Ribbons could care less about anybody in the vicinity.

It's when Setsuna looked up to the 0 Gundam with that look on his face, like he just saw a God.

Ribbons getting a power trip from what he did let Setsuna stay alive then hacked VEDA and made Setsuna a pilot. Probably assuming that later on down the line Setsuna would be a tool that he could use

[Wesley]

Not only because he was there, because Ribbons could care less about anybody in the vicinity.

It's when Setsuna looked up to the 0 Gundam with that look on his face, like he just saw a God.

Ribbons getting a power trip from what he did let Setsuna stay alive then hacked VEDA and made Setsuna a pilot. Probably assuming that later on down the line Setsuna would be a tool that he could use

:facepalm

If it were me, I would have just made Ribbons fat and gay for little Middle Eastern boys. :zaru (vague Dune reference in there)

[Goodfellow]

The answer is obvious then; I need a mecha of my own. :zaru

And thus the story has gone a full circle:zaru

:lmao

[Wesley]

And thus the story has gone a full circle:zaru

:lmao

Naturally my own mecha will be rubber stamped by Congress and developed by an American-based aeronautics coporation and military contractor. :pek

Or at the very least I'll have diplomatic relations with them and the world abroad, pending the aquisition of those memory erasing pens from Men In Black. :box

[al103]

"Why Marina stopped Setsuna from killing Ali"?

1. Like hell it was intentional.
2. It was Setsuna problem that he didn't kill Ali after hearing music, not hers. And if after hearing her music he would shot himself in his stupid head it would be still his problem.
3. If Setsuna didn't hear her song after killing Ali he would die in cabin of 00. So if discard 1 and 2 it was equal exchange.

[AshDragon]

Marina really dosen't do anything but give setsuna a way out of his world of war...it dosen't really bother me that she's not doing anything,show me a nice epilougue of setsuna and marina living together and im happy:zaru


and lol Marina didn't puposely stop setsuna from killing ali :rofl

I kind of expect that to happen, I wouldn't mind that to happen either since I don't mind Marina.