Aren't we being a bit harsh on Saji/Louise?

[Blaze of Glory]

Before I start this topic I just want everyone to get this straight... I FUCKING HATE Saji but at the same time I feel a little bit sorry for him and want to kick him in the balls till he admits he's a little bitch. As for Louise come on now she had her whole family killed by the Gundams and believed that her comrade Soma died and watched Barrack be killed before her eyes. Saji tried to leave the war but ended up getting several Kataron people killed in the process and is too much of a pussy to go to Louise and she has now become mad because of the war having watched people died.

Can you guys say you wouldn't act the same as Louise who is driven by Revenge or Saji is a complete and total bitch and can't go to his woman in fear that people may die because of him?

[Tempest]

I guess I can see the reasons why Louise is acting that way but Saji... man. Every time I see him, I give him a face palm. Fuckin` epic fail.

[Altron]

if Anything most likely since Louise wants a new suit Setsuna is gonna kill her without knowing it, when the fight near the orbital weapon begins. :zaru

[KillerFan]

so much time is given to louise and saji this season than before, and i'm not liking it. especially because gundam victories are very sparse to balance out the crappy drama

[Logic]

You know what. I hate when this kinda crap happens.

Just tell her it was the Thrones they were bat shit crazy and they are almost all dead now.

Ugh why don't people in anime sit down and talk for 5 fuckin seconds and just explain shit.

[Jetstorm]

Louise gets a pass because those particles from the thrones probably fucked her up.

Saji on the other hand, is a little fucking bitch that needs to man the fuck up. He lacked a spine back when Louise was ordering him around in the first half and he is still lacking a spine in the second half.

[neodragzero]

So the reason why Louise decided to become apart of an asshole group like the A-Laws, put down money for usage in the creation of weapons that kill people, and even forget that Saiji's sister was killed for investigating Celestial Being because of someone bad solar generator particles. I just can't really accept that now until more is shown beyond just simply explicit shows of lacking physical performance rather than an implicit possible mishap with her mental psychology. I'm just gonna continue disliking her for being the fool she truly is and look forward to the crushing blow that will come when she finds out how dumb she has been.

Saiji on the other hand at least had enough sense to NOT TAKE the Raiser. It took him a bit longer than some may have wanted for him to figure out that taking it is a bad idea but at least he didn't leave the cockpit while it showed that Setsuna has a functioning brain as he gives the guy a choice between actually making the right decision or beat the every loving crap out of him when he foolishly fails at stealing the Raiser.

So yeah, I'm not gonna hold it against Saiji for not going over to met up with someone who still was dumb enough to join the A-Laws and even fund them.

[Nightfall]

Louise gets a pass because those particles from the thrones probably fucked her up.

Saji on the other hand, is a little fucking bitch that needs to man the fuck up. He lacked a spine back when Louise was ordering him around in the first half and he is still lacking a spine in the second half.

You fancy the manliest men eh:C
just j/k ^^

I still believe we are being too harsh on Saji, sure it's annoying to see him.. but he lost his sister. And was powerless to do anything for Louise after that accident happened to her, and probably spent 4 years in space feeling shitty about it. Then he was forced to join up with CB. and he just encountered Louise again after settling down a bit. Sure his attitude towards the others in CB is as stupid as it can get, but he's a civilian with no desire to be in a war at all. Personally I would have probably been the same way.. with the exception of being angry at those around me. But I would probably crawl up in a corner and hope it was just a dream. I'm not used to war and I probably wouldn't be able to handle it.

[Lord Darkwolf]

I still believe we are being too harsh on Saji, sure it's annoying to see him.. but he lost his sister. And was powerless to do anything for Louise after that accident happened to her, and probably spent 4 years in space feeling shitty about it. Then he was forced to join up with CB. and he just encountered Louise again after settling down a bit. Sure his attitude towards the others in CB is as stupid as it can get, but he's a civilian with no desire to be in a war at all. Personally I would have probably been the same way.. with the exception of being angry at those around me. But I would probably crawl up in a corner and hope it was just a dream. I'm not used to war and I probably wouldn't be able to handle it.



I don't really see him as being all that hostile to CB . He's been generally pleasant to all the members not named Setsuna . He had even pretty much dropped "Blame CB for everything ." till this episode and lets face it he only reacted annoyed like that because Setsuna came in asking REALLLLY dumb questions and then tried to play riddle mentor . Even Lyle pointed out that Setsuna was a rather poor grief councilor.

[arunachala_1008]

Maaan! i hate saji and louise, i was predicting saji would die in the first season but i know they keep him around to give a different perspective on war and emotions and yada yada, but hell, he almost tried to take off with the 00 raiser for christ's sake!

but the funniest was when louise was laughing to herself all crazy and shit, that was hilarious almost as funny as when the innovator bitch slapped wang lui mei

[Red Zaku]

Just tell her it was the Thrones they were bat shit crazy and they are almost all dead now.

Yes, when would you like them to do that? Setsuna didn't know Louise was in that Throne attack, and Saji just met her in that fight. What, did you want them to call a time out to the battle so Saji could talk to her? Also the one who killed her family, Nena, is still alive.

Ugh why don't people in anime sit down and talk for 5 fuckin seconds and just explain shit.

Yes, it would take five seconds to explain and convince her the Thrones weren't part of Celestial Being despite everyone linking them together, it wasn't meant to happen, and her whole family was massacred because some freckle faced red head was bored and jealous that other people were having a good time?

-----------------------------------------------------

So the reason why Louise decided to become apart of an asshole group like the A-Laws, put down money for usage in the creation of weapons that kill people, and even forget that Saiji's sister was killed for investigating Celestial Being because of someone bad solar generator particles.

No, what the hell were you watching? x.x The whole reason Louse joins A-Laws is because their stated mission and the reason they exist is to stop groups like Celestial Being. You know the group that attacked and killed every member of her family making her the sole heir to the Halevy fortune. And what the hell? Did everyone forget Louse lost her hand, THEN Kinue was killed? Louise loses contact with Saji as of 19. Kinue's body is dumped in 20. >.> So Louise doesn't know about that.

I just can't really accept that now until more is shown beyond just simply explicit shows of lacking physical performance rather than an implicit possible mishap with her mental psychology.

She wants revenge on people like Celestial Being and the gundams in paritcular because Gundams killed her entire family and stole her hand, and ruined her relationship with Saji whom she now thinks had been betraying her from the start.....

I'm just gonna continue disliking her for being the fool she truly is and look forward to the crushing blow that will come when she finds out how dumb she has been.

.....Yes, no one wants revenge. Not to mention she has obviously not seen nor heard of the horrible things the A-Laws do in the name of peace. She only seems informed of the terrible things the Anti-Federation Government Organizations do to people. She's getting the censored brand of information everyone else who lives in the Fed is getting hence it's much easier for her to stick to her guns as the A-Laws being the good guys.

So yeah, I'm not gonna hold it against Saiji for not going over to met up with someone who still was dumb enough to join the A-Laws and even fund them.

............Yes, even though you completely have her reasons for doing so epicly wrong....

------------------------------------------------------------
but hell, he almost tried to take off with the 00 raiser for christ's sake!

And? Amuro Ray did steal the Gundam and did screw over the White Base all because his ego was too proud to admit that his skills and the Gundam's ability to dominate every suit Zeon had were making him a cocky little shit. So far Saji has done far less annoying crap then Amuro and he's been abused far more as well.

Amuro was an ass to Frau for just being nice to him. He thought of himself as superior to Bright because of his piloting skills. Thought ever adult was out to get him because they were jealous he might be a newtype...How has Saji even remotely approached that kind of assery? Hell, don't even get me started on early Kamille who thought the Universe wronged him because he had a girls name. Or Judau who could care less about anyone but his close circle of friends and making money by stealing MS no matter how desparately it was needed by the Argama.

Hell, Kou was crying his eyes out because someone thought he wasn't a good enough pilot for the GP-01. Shiro refused to holy hell to kill an enemy Zeon Soldier no matter what risk it placed the rest of his team in for awhile. Seriously all these insanely stupid acts by Gundam mains in the past and Saji get's more heat for THINKING of taking the O-Raiser? And at least Saji had better motivation then Amuro who thought everyone was out to get him, and Judau who just wanted to make a quick buck.

but the funniest was when louise was laughing to herself all crazy and shit, that was hilarious almost as funny as when the innovator bitch slapped wang lui mei

Gotta love posts where the sole justification for hating characters is actions they didn't actually commit, and where the biggest sign of intelligence is in the use of volgar swear words. -.o;

[Nightfall]

^Excuse me if I'm being rude or inappropriate, but I think Katz is a better example than Kamille, if you're going to use characters from Zeta Gundam. He was a constant source of frustration in my eyes and even worse he refused to learn from his mistakes and never quite grew up. Although that also lead to his death. Quoting wiki:

''Although he had skills as a pilot, his naviete and recklessness made him a thorn in the side of his superiors and ultimately led to his downfall.''

I'm actually surprised at the poll:oh
I actually thought people would be more understanding and not that quick to hate a character based on a few human emotions from Saji and Louise><
Too much hate on these forums:notrust

[Canute87]

The man was about to take the oo_raiser. Totally not caring what happened to the others.

Someone needs to punch some sense into that bitch. Like Ribbons did :zaru

[Lord Darkwolf]

The man was about to take the oo_raiser. Totally not caring what happened to the others.



Um caring about what happened to the others is the whole reason he DIDN'T take it .

[Red Zaku]

^Excuse me if I'm being rude or inappropriate, but I think Katz is a better example than Kamille,

The two acted exactly the same if you compare openign series Kamille and Katz. In fact Katz was used to show the contrast between late series Kamille, and early series Kamille, because they were saying the same things.

if you're going to use characters from Zeta Gundam.

I didn't forget Katz, but Katz is not as good an example as Kamille who was the main character and for pretty much the first half of Zeta he was just as whiny as Katz. I know. I own the box set.

He was a constant source of frustration in my eyes and even worse he refused to learn from his mistakes and never quite grew up.

Which is the anti-thesis of Saji who obviously learned from his mistake because he didn't steal the O-Raiser and go running off because he didn't feel he was involved in anything. That would be the opposite of what you claim Katz does....... Hence why Katz is not a good example.

Although that also lead to his death. Quoting wiki:

Rule number 1 about debates. Wiki sucks never quote it.

''Although he had skills as a pilot, his naviete and recklessness made him a thorn in the side of his superiors and ultimately led to his downfall.''

Which is someones opinion. It's not actually a fact of his character. You're using someones opinion to support your opinion, which contradicts Saji's character.

[The Second Derivative]

Before I start this topic I just want everyone to get this straight... I FUCKING HATE Saji but at the same time I feel a little bit sorry for him and want to kick him in the balls till he admits he's a little bitch. As for Louise come on now she had her whole family killed by the Gundams and believed that her comrade Soma died and watched Barrack be killed before her eyes. Saji tried to leave the war but ended up getting several Kataron people killed in the process and is too much of a pussy to go to Louise and she has now become mad because of the war having watched people died.

Can you guys say you wouldn't act the same as Louise who is driven by Revenge or Saji is a complete and total bitch and can't go to his woman in fear that people may die because of him?


Dont forgetn all of Saji's family died as well; his sister.


In the Universe of Gundam if your a normal person, especially a nice guy like Saji you get fucked, hard.

Thats just how it is.

The way the character respond to this dpesnt really matter.

[neodragzero]

No, what the hell were you watching? x.x The whole reason Louse joins A-Laws is because their stated mission and the reason they exist is to stop groups like Celestial Being. You know the group that attacked and killed every member of her family making her the sole heir to the Halevy fortune. And what the hell? Did everyone forget Louse lost her hand, THEN Kinue was killed? Louise loses contact with Saji as of 19. Kinue's body is dumped in 20. >.> So Louise doesn't know about that.

Louise is plenty rich enough and should have the more than enough motivation to at least find out that Saji lost his sister.

She's been with the A-Laws for how long and hasn't found out about the automatons? At that point, she's not even trying. And how exactly does it do any good for your family name to devote the money you inherit from them to the creation of more weapons? It's a lot of hyprocisy and contradiction to consider.

She's getting the censored brand of information everyone else who lives in the Fed is getting hence it's much easier for her to stick to her guns as the A-Laws being the good guys.

Yeah...it's not like she's an A-Laws pilot. The entire general population is so in the same exact position she is.:apathy

[Donkey Show]

The two acted exactly the same if you compare openign series Kamille and Katz. In fact Katz was used to show the contrast between late series Kamille, and early series Kamille, because they were saying the same things.



I didn't forget Katz, but Katz is not as good an example as Kamille who was the main character and for pretty much the first half of Zeta he was just as whiny as Katz. I know. I own the box set.



Which is the anti-thesis of Saji who obviously learned from his mistake because he didn't steal the O-Raiser and go running off because he didn't feel he was involved in anything. That would be the opposite of what you claim Katz does....... Hence why Katz is not a good example.


But will Saji eat it like Katz? :zaru His death was the perfect vindication of his character.

At least Louise has a death grip.

[Legend]

Saji is just a punk, I actually feel for louise she just doesn't know the real story and is being a puppet my the A-laws and the innovators if she knew the truth she wouldn't be sooo messed up:nod.

[Red Zaku]

Louise is plenty rich enough and should have the more than enough motivation to at least find out that Saji lost his sister.

Yes, because she has so much spare time after joining the military rehabing with her new cyber arm and having experiments conducted to give her quantum brainwaves. >.> It's all Louises fault. That's the worst reasoning EVER.

She's been with the A-Laws for how long and hasn't found out about the automatons?

........................She was with the unit that deployed them inside a colony and she got to see NONE of it. Not to mention she was informed it was a Kataron base. Sort of hard to feel sorry for guys who bombed your commanders family.

At that point, she's not even trying.

Or you're just being a dick and trying to suggest she should go well beyond the means most people would to keep in touch with someone she herself removed from her life because of a tragedy that crippled her and the idea she would be a burden to him.

And how exactly does it do any good for your family name to devote the money you inherit from them to the creation of more weapons?

Because they're weapons to keep other families from behind affected by the same thing your family was hurt by. That's the ulimate paradox of weapons and fighting.

It's a lot of hyprocisy and contradiction to consider.

No dude. It's called a PARADOX! It's PARADOXICAL! The idea that the same tools that can be used to murder people can also be used to save the lives of innocent people is a PARADOX.

Yeah...it's not like she's an A-Laws pilot. The entire general population is so in the same exact position she is.:apathy

No, you've surpassed apathetic and went straight to assholish.

-----------------------------------
But will Saji eat it like Katz? :zaru His death was the perfect vindication of his character.

That's completely impossible. Saji is always stuck tot he back of 00 Gundam. Katz had a seperate little fighter that he piloted after the Super Gundam was formed.

[neodragzero]

Yes, because she has so much spare time after joining the military rehabing with her new cyber arm and having experiments conducted to give her quantum brainwaves. >.> It's all Louises fault. That's the worst reasoning EVER.

Yeah...you do realize a heavy amount of that is HER OWN PERSONAL CHOICE? While I'm clearly suggesting she uses her sizable funds to keep track of what's going on with Saji. Something she can easily do when she's ridiculously rich. Free time isn't an issue whatsoever.

........................She was with the unit that deployed them inside a colony and she got to see NONE of it. Not to mention she was informed it was a Kataron base. Sort of hard to feel sorry for guys who bombed your commanders family.

And again it shows that she spends so much time with the A-Laws but is utterly clueless. She has a sizeable amount of resources she can access but she never attempts to even think about the obvious repercussions of giving your money to arms dealers. You're basically excusing the past whining of a certain princess character in the Twelve Kingdoms series even though the story gives a good lesson on who the blame falls upon.

Or you're just being a dick and trying to suggest she should go well beyond the means most people would to keep in touch with someone she herself removed from her life because of a tragedy that crippled her and the idea she would be a burden to him.

Go beyond the means that most people would? The woman is loaded with enough monetary resource to fund the creation of brand new mobile suits that give Celestial Being Gundams something they can barely overcome if for not the existence of the Gundam 00-Raiser. She's beyond the economic means of most people in general.

Because they're weapons to keep other families from behind affected by the same thing your family was hurt by. That's the ulimate paradox of weapons and fighting.

Rather than spending the money on things for the sake of directly helping people. Her decision on how to spend her family's inheritance is still a matter of hypocrisy on her part.

No dude. It's called a PARADOX! It's PARADOXICAL! The idea that the same tools that can be used to murder people can also be used to save the lives of innocent people is a PARADOX.

Call it paradox if you want. It's still a grand show of hyprocisy on her part. Using her money to give aid to people of ailing nations, funds devoted strictly to peaceful means of diplomatic development, etc. easily outnumber the option of simply making your money all the more bloody. A person committing a paradoxical action doesn't excuse the arrogance and ignorance they use to simply commit a mass act of hypocrisy.

No, you've surpassed apathetic and went straight to assholish.
You might want to stick with OBD rules and learn to calm down.

[Red Zaku]

Yeah...you do realize a heavy amount of that is HER OWN PERSONAL CHOICE?

And? I'm questioning how those choices to become somewhat normal again, somehow lead you to conclude she had all this free time?

While I'm clearly suggesting she uses her sizable funds to keep track of what's going on with Saji.

AKA stalk him. You want her to stalk Saji. Please abide by my earliar post and leave my internet now. Stupid has it's limits. You've crossed the line.

Something she can easily do when she's ridiculously rich. Free time isn't an issue whatsoever.

>.> Yes, because you speak from experience of watching rich people on TV who do have too much free time, despite the focus mainly being on members of the rich person's family who don't work for the money and are living off their parents rather then managing the finanacial issues and making more money themselves.

And again it shows that she spends so much time with the A-Laws but is utterly clueless.

>.> The gassing of Side 3 by the Titans was only known by a handful of actual Titans members. To the point Emma Sheen didn't believe it, and Jerid Messa thought it was an act commited by the AEUG. Shadowy organizations tend to be large enough they can do horrible things without a good chunk of their membership ever knowing.

She has a sizeable amount of resources she can access but she never attempts to even think about the obvious repercussions of giving your money to arms dealers.

She gave it to the EARTH FEDERATION! THE GOVERNMENT OF THE EARTH. THE FEDERATION ESTABLISHED THE A-LAWS WHICH IS FUNDED PRIVATELY BY PEOPLE LIKE LOUISE. Pay some freaking attention to the story.


Call it paradox if you want.

THAT'S WHAT IS IS! IT'S THE DEFINITION OF A PARADOX.

It's still a grand show of hyprocisy on her part.

-.- No, you just don't know what the hell hypocrisy is. Hell, you couldn't even spell it correctly why the hell would you know the definition?

Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself.

Now, show me where Louise went and gassed a bunch of innocents and you'd have a point. Until such time. No, you're full of crap. The A-Law's actions are not reflective of Louse, nor do the actions of a few higher ups she doesn't know about make everything her fault or even partly her fault. Place blame where it's due not at Louise because you hate her character for some horrible incapability to tell the difference between a paradox and a hypocrisy.

Using her money to give aid to people of ailing nations, funds devoted strictly to peaceful means of diplomatic development, etc.

.... Yes because funding a military wing which will protect people from hostile threats like those that killed her family is not helping too. >.> You're pissy because of a philosphical difference between your pacifist view and hers.

You might want to stick with OBD rules and learn to calm down.

Or just stop failing so hard with you innane replies. -.o And read a dictionary before exercising the use of terms you clearly don't get.

[neodragzero]

And? I'm questioning how those choices to become somewhat normal again, somehow lead you to conclude she had all this free time?

And I state that she made the mass majority of those choices. Bad choices that reflect massive hypocrisy. She's rich. Time isn't an issue when you have enough funds to make time.

>.> Yes, because you speak from experience of watching rich people on TV who do have too much free time, despite the focus mainly being on members of the rich person's family who don't work for the money and are living off their parents rather then managing the finanacial issues and making more money themselves.


And I ask, how exactly is she making more money? :zaru

Oh yeah, she inherited it. She's obviously not running the company behind her family's wealth. So again, she has enough money on hand to just give it away to have mobile suit made that make the CB Gundams wet their pants...but doesn't enough time to make a couple of phone calls throughout more than a year? You really can't figure out the problem with that?

>.> The gassing of Side 3 by the Titans was only known by a handful of actual Titans members. To the point Emma Sheen didn't believe it, and Jerid Messa thought it was an act commited by the AEUG. Shadowy organizations tend to be large enough they can do horrible things without a good chunk of their membership ever knowing.

Shadowy organizations tend to have their workings known about by their financial backers unless the financial backer is arrogant and ignorant enough to not even keep track of how exactly their money is spent. Nice try though.

She gave it to the EARTH FEDERATION! THE GOVERNMENT OF THE EARTH. THE FEDERATION ESTABLISHED THE A-LAWS WHICH IS FUNDED PRIVATELY BY PEOPLE LIKE LOUISE. Pay some freaking attention to the story.

And again, how is it that she doesn't know her money isn't being used for making weapons? It still shows massive laziness on her part. You aren't helping her out here.

-.- No, you just don't know what the hell hypocrisy is. Hell, you couldn't even spell it correctly why the hell would you know the definition?


Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself.

Now, show me where Louise went and gassed a bunch of innocents and you'd have a point. Until such time. No, you're full of crap. The A-Law's actions are not reflective of Louse, nor do the actions of a few higher ups she doesn't know about make everything her fault or even partly her fault. Place blame where it's due not at Louise because you hate her character for some horrible incapability to tell the difference between a paradox and a hypocrisy.

A typo automatically means not knowing the definition of a word...You haven't been on threads for much that long at all I guess if you really want to follow that line of logic. But thanks for the flame bait though. Keep it up and I will report you.

She gives away money without even keeping track of what's being done with it in full. She signs up to fight in a military organization even though it takes a massive amount of naivety to think this supposed organization is simply "Justice and good will" without any faults whatsoever. She doesn't even seem to bother to check up on how her money is used. The story has it stated that her funds are used for the creation for weapons rather than any suggestion that she gave the federation money to feed starving children or some other positive form of support for human growth and development. She uses money that she only inherited after a horrific death of her family by a military organization...only to give it to another without bothering to keep up to date on the ramifications of it.

Your strawman isn't getting you anywhere by the way.

[Red Zaku]

And I state that she made the mass majority of those choices.

Once again how do those chocies give her this so called free time?

Bad choices that reflect massive hypocrisy.

No, they don't. Bad choices reflect poor decisions. Though I fail to see how her decision to get her arm back was bad. >.> I also fail to see how it's inherently bad of her to give money to the A-Law's to protect innocent people from terrorists attacks, or for her to join the military to do the same thing she's asking others to do.

She's rich.

And? How does being rich mean she's got free time? One can be rich and still be consistently busy. What you're arguing is a logical fallacy. Here I'll explain.

Fallacy of False Cause or Non Sequitur (Latin for "it does not follow")--incorrectly assumes one thing is the cause of another (e.g., Our nation will prevail because God is great.)

Much like the example you're suggesting she has free time because she's rich. I'm praying to god this is another botched attempt at sarcasm.

Time isn't an issue when you have enough funds to make time.

............. It's impossible to make time. Time will be the same amount throughout the day as always. Not to mention your statement there is another logical fallacy. I'll explain again.

Fallacy of False Cause or Non Sequitur (Latin for "it does not follow")--incorrectly assumes one thing is the cause of another (e.g., Our nation will prevail because God is great.)
A special case of this fallacy also goes by the Latin term post hoc ergo propter hoc--the fallacy of believing that temporal succession implies a causal relation.
Another special case is given by the Latin term cum hoc ergo propter hoc -- the fallacy of believing that happenstance implies causal relation (aka as fallacy of causation versus correlation: assumes that correlation implies causation).

And I ask, how exactly is she making more money?

Her family made it's money in the telecommunications industry.

Oh yeah, she inherited it.

Now you're acting like inheritence means that she still has a lot after making grand donations to the A-Laws without a means to restore lost funds. Or that she cannot work to increase her inheritence. >.> Know what that is? ANTOHER LOGICAL FALLACY! The same Non-Sequitur you first used no less! :D

She's obviously not running the company behind her family's wealth.

Based on your close observation of her during the 4 year time skip?

So again, she has enough money on hand to just give it away to have mobile suit made that make the CB Gundams wet their pants...

She's not donating that much. In fact listen to the dialogue used she's the LARGEST donator. To make an army of MS would require more funds then Louise herself can provide. Not to mention aside from the Garazzo, and Gaddessa none of the A-Law's MS showed capabilities matching or exceeding the current gen Gundam's.

but doesn't enough time to make a couple of phone calls throughout more than a year?

Yes, everyone regularly calls their ex's........

You really can't figure out the problem with that?

No. They broke up. By Louises choice. She didn't want her handicap to hold Saji back. And when she was given a second chance she obviously chose to devote it to ridding the world of people like Celestial Being. Namely the Thrones operating in CB's name.

Shadowy organizations tend to have their workings known about by their financial backers

No they don't. The whole idea of a shadowy organization is so their backers don't know anything hence they can't be held accountable for actions of said organization. >.> Now you're just being stupid again.

unless the financial backer is arrogant and ignorant enough to not even keep track of how exactly their money is spent.

It's not their money. They gave it away. That's the point, they gave it to someone else so they could build machines to end terrorism.

Nice try though.

>.> Try? No, sir it was sucessful. Common sense just looks akward to someone such as yourself.

And again, how is it that she doesn't know her money isn't being used for making weapons?

Because it's a military organization. Her money could be going to salaries, uniforms, purchasings of machines from other branches of service, food supplies, purchase of ships, etc.... The spending for militaries is incredibly diverse and varried.

It still shows massive laziness on her part.

>.> Do you know where your money to some starving kid in Africa goes when they advertise those help comercials on TV? No, you don't. You're just believing what you're told. In reality you have no clue you just feel better thinking it's going where they tell you it is. Tell you what. Prove you 89 cents a day is helping Byakabatuka, and we'll talk.

You aren't helping her out here.

You've based your entire belief structure of Louise is evil on three logical fallacies and two very litteral collapses in rational thought and better judgement. Jesus couldn't help her out in your eyes.

A typo automatically means not knowing the definition of a word...

No, using it incorrectly to describe a characters motivations as hypocrisy, then miss-spelling it, is sort of what automatically means you don't know the definition of a word......

You haven't been on threads for much that long at all I guess if you really want to follow that line of logic.

That using a word incorrectly to summerize the actions of a character and then miss-spelling means you don't know what that word even means? I could have proven that without the miss-spelling and just going by the first part where you were using it incorrectly. The miss-spelling is just icing on the cake.

But thanks for the flame bait though. Keep it up and I will report you.

I could have done so twice. It's not my fault, you not only completely miss-spelled the word but also used it incorrectly to define the actions of a character to justify why you don't like her.

She gives away money without even keeping track of what's being done with it in full.

That's sort of impossible. She's not the one spending it after she gives it away. In fact she no longer has any right to see what's done with it. Again, for yout o have a legit point you'd have to prove people know what happens to money after they spend it somewhere. >.> The vast majority don't. In fact the Government doesn't even know what happens to it all after it's given out from the national treasurey.

She signs up to fight in a military organization even though it takes a massive amount of naivety to think this supposed organization is simply "Justice and good will" without any faults whatsoever.

>.> Please feel free to tell this to American Soldiers. I'm sure they'd love to "discuss" this issue with you at your leisure.

She doesn't even seem to bother to check up on how her money is used.

You repeated yourself. And it's still as faulty as it was the first time.

The story has it stated that her funds are used for the creation for weapons

And? Some of her money was also probably used to buy the uniforms everyone is wearing, build the ships they're using, and purchase the GN-XIII units from the Federation.

rather than any suggestion that she gave the federation money to feed starving children or some other positive form of support for human growth and development.

>.> The A-Law's is a Federation Organization fielded with the use of Private funds. Also, again, how does feeding starving children stop violence?

She uses money that she only inherited after a horrific death of her family by a military organization...

No, by a para-military organization. As in they mimic the set up of a military organization, but they're not an official military of any sort. They're actually terrorists specializing in Guerilla hit and run tactics. You're also again ignoring the paradoxical nature of militaries in general.

only to give it to another without bothering to keep up to date on the ramifications of it.

Now you're just being incredibly naive.

Your strawman isn't getting you anywhere by the way.

This is probably the first thing you ever replied with that I actually found funny.

[Clegger]

For me it really depends on how long they keep this up. If the majority of their angst was in this episode then I don't really have a problem with it because their reactions are understandable. Now if it continues for the next few episodes and we have to listen to them constantly whine about the other then it would bother me. I did find it funny that both Saji/Louise took their anger out on the two people who are the closest thing to a friend that they have right now. Sure, both Setsuna and Andrei kinda deserved it but they were mostly right in what they said.

[Wesley]

They were much better people last season.

[Nightfall]

They were much better people last season.

In war everyone becomes..:\

[Wesley]

In war everyone becomes..:\

Sure, but there is no war. Only a small group of jack-offs playing at godhood while making everyone miserable.

[Goodfellow]

Last time I checked that's pretty much the textbook answer for what a war is Wesley:zaru

[Wesley]

Last time I checked that's pretty much the textbook answer for what a war is Wesley:zaru

No, it isn't. There's examples of good wars. True, most of them are fought by the United States, but hey it's not our fault that everyone else plays at war for the hell of it.

[Goodfellow]

No, it isn't. There's examples of good wars. True, most of them are fought by the United States, but hey it's not our fault that everyone else plays at war for the hell of it.

:lmao:lmao

[Nightfall]

No, it isn't. There's examples of good wars. True, most of them are fought by the United States, but hey it's not our fault that everyone else plays at war for the hell of it.

Even if you are a supporter of what USA has done... I'm surprised you aren't questioning the acts of what your country has done in the slightest. Perhaps it's silly of me to think so, but from what you said there it sounds like you support them 100%. No war is really GOOD from my point of view, and certainly not the ones started by Bush since he was elected. Quite possibly the worst president America has ever had. I don't mean to question your values.. and what I said now was probably insulting, it's not personal. I'm just surprised that people generally can be so one-sided in their opinions.

And apparently from the way you reacted once.. you aren't trolling so....

I liked the way Andrei handled the situation though... I don't believe he's a selfish stuck up soldier I originally thought he was. Well time will tell, I'm glad he didn't turn out to be the bastard I thought he would be.

[~Shin~]

No, it isn't. There's examples of good wars. True, most of them are fought by the United States, but hey it's not our fault that everyone else plays at war for the hell of it.

OH WOW

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

HA HA


As for the topic, I could understand both of their situations. I'm sure most people in their situation would react in the same manner. I do think Saji gets too emotional at times. One time he acts like he understands the situation and then the next moment he starts getting emo and starts bitching about his life.

[Nightfall]

OH WOW

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

HA HA


As for the topic, I could understand both of their situations. I'm sure most people in their situation would react in the same manner. I do think Saji gets too emotional at times. One time he acts like he understands the situation and then the next moment he starts getting emo and starts bitching about his life.

I agree, to some extent their reaction seem very well.... HUMAN. At least from my point of view. Which is why it's so surprising so many people are raging because of it><

[Goodfellow]

A good thing about Saji though is that he learns from his mistakes. I have to give him that.

[Wesley]

I agree, to some extent their reaction seem very well.... HUMAN. At least from my point of view. Which is why it's so surprising so many people are raging because of it><

To be honest, it was really only a matter of time that Celestial Being's brain-washing would set in. I can't really fault him for caving in to them, but it would have been nice had he not started working for them willingly. Basically using slave laber those bastards...

Also, The United STATES RULES!!!

[Red Zaku]

To be honest, it was really only a matter of time that Celestial Being's brain-washing would set in.

What Brainwashing? That if he does soemthing stupid because of who the A-Law's are it will get innocent people killed? >.> Wesley again, why are you even posting? We all know you have the worst percept of the series out of anyone.

I can't really fault him for caving in to them, but it would have been nice had he not started working for them willingly.

>.> Yes because when governments begin oppressing their citizen's there is no cause to over throw that government. And it's not like they're just raising taxes on tea. No, they've killed CIVILIANS with their own hands. All you have to do to enjoy TV is pay attention how is it you can't even do that right?

Basically using slave laber those bastards...

You just said it yourself. Saji is working with them willingly. That's the opposite of Slavery...... So far all you do is spout as much nonsense as possible, and you wonder why I rip you a new one pretty much every time you post?

[kaze_to_ame]

I find Louise funny. She hates Celestial Being for killing her family and what they did to her. The thing is, Celestial Being didn't do that. While the Thrones appeared and claimed they were Celestial Being, the real Celestial Being went scratching their heads, saying "We don't know those dumb shits and we will attack them too"

Louise happens to know and fund the person, well innovator responsible for her family's death. I'm sure her parents are rolling in their graves because of her actions.

I would like to see Saji and Louise meet, her spouting out that he is with the faction that killed her family and them with Saji telling her the truth about it all, how he, an innocent bystander, got mixed up in this crazy war, which lead to the deaths of Kataron's people in a merciless slaughter (let's face it, that's what it was, it wasn't a battle, it was a massacre). Then I wish he would shove in her face what the damn memento mori did, show her just how much her funding has done. Louise is a hypocrite through and through.

[Red Zaku]

I find Louise funny. She hates Celestial Being for killing her family and what they did to her. The thing is, Celestial Being didn't do that. While the Thrones appeared and claimed they were Celestial Being, the real Celestial Being went scratching their heads, saying "We don't know those dumb shits and we will attack them too"

Of course the public doesn't know that so assuming Louise did is kinda silly. x.x She has no reason to think they weren't. Hell until Saji saw confidential files he though the Thrones were part of Celestial Being as well.

Louise happens to know and fund the person, well innovator responsible for her family's death. I'm sure her parents are rolling in their graves because of her actions.

So you're judging her based on things no one outside the innovators and CB know? x.x Brilliant........

I would like to see Saji and Louise meet,

They already did. x.x Have you even been watching Season 2? I feel it's a very relevant question to ask because the two already had their meeting no less then two episodes ago.

her spouting out that he is with the faction that killed her family and them with Saji telling her the truth about it all,

Saji's not even sure if he fully believes the Thrones weren't part of Celestial Being and he's seen the whole story. x.x His confidence in his belief that CB is right is pretty much zero. He simply doesn't want people on any side to die because of something he did.

how he, an innocent bystander, got mixed up in this crazy war, which lead to the deaths of Kataron's people in a merciless slaughter (let's face it, that's what it was, it wasn't a battle, it was a massacre).

Yes, there are a lot of ironies in season2 but you can't indite a character on them when they have no knowledge of any of the things we as the viewers do.

Then I wish he would shove in her face what the damn memento mori did, show her just how much her funding has done.

1. It's not JUST her funding. It's completely unrealistic to think she alone is fiancing all that the A-Law's are doing by herself. She's the LARGEST donator, not the only one.
2. You can make a case for the Momento Mori's use being justified just as you cna make a case for using the nuke is Justified. By inflicting massive casualties on the enemy you can curb future conflicts without having to lose a vast amount of troops int he process.

Louise is a hypocrite through and through.

....For her to be a hypocrite she'd have to be knowlingly contradicting her beliefs. As I already pointed out on this topic she isn't doing that. So no she is not a hypocrite....

[Wesley]

I find Louise funny. She hates Celestial Being for killing her family and what they did to her. The thing is, Celestial Being didn't do that. While the Thrones appeared and claimed they were Celestial Being, the real Celestial Being went scratching their heads, saying "We don't know those dumb shits and we will attack them too"

Here's one reason why I hate this series.

The Thrones.

These guys came along, saved the B-Team, and single handiedly forced the to series go somewhere. And after they were no longer useful, they were killed off, becoming convinent scapegoats for all the bullshit the B-Team had been committing up til that point.

If a wrecked MS shot down by Lockon fell ontop of Lousie's family, would it have made any difference? Because that stuff happened all the time when the B-Team was running around. Convinently it wasn't depicted, because remember they're supposed to be these gray protagonists, walking a thin line between hero and villian. Because that's just so edgy and hip.

It simply wouldn't do to depict people actually being hurt by their actions. Terrified politicians, business men, military commanders/pilots. As if anyone is going to cry for them, since they're created to be pathetic and make the "good guys" look awesome when they're made to wet themselves.

Louise happens to know and fund the person, well innovator responsible for her family's death. I'm sure her parents are rolling in their graves because of her actions.

I'm sure they'd be proud of her. Too bad she's completely alone. I don't see you guys mentioning Andrei ever, so I assume his character has been completely useless outside a MS, maybe even then.

I would like to see Saji and Louise meet, her spouting out that he is with the faction that killed her family and them with Saji telling her the truth about it all, how he, an innocent bystander, got mixed up in this crazy war, which lead to the deaths of Kataron's people in a merciless slaughter (let's face it, that's what it was, it wasn't a battle, it was a massacre). Then I wish he would shove in her face what the damn memento mori did, show her just how much her funding has done. Louise is a hypocrite through and through.

I would like to see her kill Saji for working with them. The moment he handed that old man a screwdriver, he was knowingly aiding and abetting terrorists.

Also I'd like her to mature a bit. Sure, her family got wiped out, but there's more to what's going on than what happened to her. That the Thrones killed her family doesn't matter. That Saji just kind of accidently fell in with a bad crowd, doesn't matter. It's what and who they are, and what they've done and continue to do. That's why Lousie should want to fight them. Not because her family got wiped out and she wants vengeance.

[Red Zaku]

Here's one reason why I hate this series.

>.> Now this will be an actual reason and not something you completely made up in order to justify your hatred of this series yes? Because lately it's been less about the facts and more about making stuff up to support your view facts be damned.

These guys came along, saved the B-Team, and single handiedly forced the to series go somewhere.

Go somewhere? It already was. You must have missed that inbetween the time you were ignoring the treatment of the Middle East in 00 to try and suggest Marina was a bad leader, and ignoring the development of the nations to unify and put aside their differences to fight Celestial Being.

And after they were no longer useful, they were killed off, becoming convinent scapegoats for all the bullshit the B-Team had been committing up til that point.

>.> Yes, attacking strictly military targets was so much worse then attacking Civilians. How could any of us possibly forget.....

If a wrecked MS shot down by Lockon fell ontop of Lousie's family, would it have made any difference?

x.x Umm... vastly...... First off if that happened it's obviously in no way intentional. Second the blame shifts from CB to everyone who fights because it was fighting that would have lead to that MS being shot down which resulted in the death of Louise's family..... Which changes the entire character development of Louise......

Because that stuff happened all the time when the B-Team was running around.

Oh? When? I'd really like to know. As it was never showed in the anime, never hinted in the mangaside story, the MSV manga equivalent, or any other source for that matter. x.x See? You're making things up AGAIN.

Convinently it wasn't depicted, because remember they're supposed to be these gray protagonists,

x.x From the very begining of the first season they admitted to being the Antagonists..... The fact it wasn't depicted was because of the fact they only carried out attacks on military instalations where there were no Civilian's present.... Note in Taribia there is not a single person in the city in which the fighting takes place. You can't hurt or injure people who AREN'T THERE.

walking a thin line between hero and villian.

THEY THEMSELVES ADMITTED TO BEING THE VILLIANS! >.> Do you ignore this to aggrivate me or because you just legitamately forgot?

Because that's just so edgy and hip.

No, because you officially have no idea what in gods name you're talking about.

It simply wouldn't do to depict people actually being hurt by their actions.

>.> Um......largely because there were no civilians where-ever they fought that could possibly be harmed. It's hard to injure Civ's when there are non around.


Terrified politicians,

x.x They routinely showed that every time we got to see the world leaders.

business men,

Why would business men be terrified of a group that's out to stop people from fighting? Is he fianancing a terrorist ring?

military commanders/pilots.

x.x All of these are featured within the first three episodes..............



........................I don't even know what you're supposed to be saying here.


[quote]I'm sure they'd be proud of her. Too bad she's completely alone. I don't see you guys mentioning Andrei ever, so I assume his character has been completely useless outside a MS, maybe even then.


Why would be mention in Andrei in a topic about how Saji and Louise are treated on this board? x.x Sometimes your logic makes me very sad. This has been one of those times.

I would like to see her kill Saji for working with them. The moment he handed that old man a screwdriver, he was knowingly aiding and abetting terrorists.

And? George Washington was a terrorist too in the actual sense of the word..... :D Terrorism is not an aboslute evil.... It's all dependant upon the views of history, and those views are determined by who wins. A terrorist and traitor to the crown is a hero, and saviour to the American people. Hell, Celestial Being's actions in season 2 fit right in line with the beliefs of our founding fathers. Especially Thomas Jefferson who famously quoted, "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed at times with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Celestial Being is raising up against a Government that strikes out and attacks it's own citizenry.

Also I'd like her to mature a bit.

OH THE IRONY! >.> Seriously, this one makes me chuckle for some obvious reason's.

Sure, her family got wiped out, but there's more to what's going on than what happened to her.

......... Yes, because we all know that using the memory of lost loved ones to motivate one into taking a manner of vengence is completely unheard of....


That the Thrones killed her family doesn't matter.

Of course not. It was just her family......


That Saji just kind of accidently fell in with a bad crowd, doesn't matter.

Course not...he was just the last person she felt she had in the whole world after her family died.....

It's what and who they are, and what they've done and continue to do.

As you yourself pointed out the CB she's fighting did nothing. The Thrones were the ones who attacked and killed Civilians.... And what they're doing now is protecting from the A-Law's who are butchering women and children...... >.> So what are they doing wrong this season? I mean aside from a boat load of nothing.....

That's why Lousie should want to fight them. Not because her family got wiped out and she wants vengeance.

.................................................. .................................................. ......Yeah............

[Sander RX]

That's why Lousie should want to fight them. Not because her family got wiped out and she wants vengeance.
Doesnt she want vengeance because Thrones wiped out her family?

[Wesley]

Doesnt she want vengeance because Thrones wiped out her family?

...Yeah, and it's a bad reason that's driving her crazy. It's a shame since there's plenty of non-maddening reasons for wanting to destroy Celestial Being.

[Sander RX]

...Yeah, and it's a bad reason that's driving her crazy. It's a shame since there's plenty of non-maddening reasons for wanting to destroy Celestial Being.
Oops,I misrad your post I thought it said something like "fight CB for veneance,not because her family got wiped out."
But seriously now,Louise doesnt have any personal reasons to hate CB except that.

[Wesley]

Oops,I misrad your post I thought it said something like "fight CB for veneance,not because her family got wiped out."
But seriously now,Louise doesnt have any personal reasons to hate CB except that.

Right. You don't need a personal reason to fight CB. There's plenty of moral, political, philosphical, economical, and even social (since the lot of them are just assholes anyway) reasons to want to tear them apart.

[Red Zaku]

...Yeah, and it's a bad reason that's driving her crazy.

But it's not driving her crazy.... at all... what drove her crazy was when she found out Saji was with CB and she thought that he'd been betraying her all along.... This is the THIRD time I had to tell you this. Maybe actually WATCHING the episodes would be a good idea.....

It's a shame since there's plenty of non-maddening reasons for wanting to destroy Celestial Being.

.......Just give up. It's obvious by now you have no idea what in gods name you're talking about largely because you already admitted you've stopped watching...

[RAGING BONER]

jesus christ you guys never stop...

[Nightfall]

jesus christ you guys never stop...

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
:C

[Wesley]

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
:C

You know, I've put some thought into what that means exactly. I think the real idea behind that is so that people don't get other people to do stuff simply because they claim God said so.

Case in point; Setsuna murders his family because Ali told him to while claiming it was for god. That's the real meaining behind that particular Commandment.

So an obvious means of personal expression vs. invoking God to manipulate people into mindlessly doing your personal bidding. One is perhaps bad manners, while one is evil. Though technically they may both be evil, it depends upon how literal you think God was when He said that.

[RAGING BONER]

can god be literal is the question...

[Wesley]

can god be literal is the question...

I recommend not presuming meaning beyond face value, that way you have deniability after you're dead.

[kaze_to_ame]

They already did. x.x Have you even been watching Season 2? I feel it's a very relevant question to ask because the two already had their meeting no less then two episodes ago.


1. It's not JUST her funding. It's completely unrealistic to think she alone is fiancing all that the A-Law's are doing by herself. She's the LARGEST donator, not the only one.
2. You can make a case for the Momento Mori's use being justified just as you cna make a case for using the nuke is Justified. By inflicting massive casualties on the enemy you can curb future conflicts without having to lose a vast amount of troops int he process.



....For her to be a hypocrite she'd have to be knowlingly contradicting her beliefs. As I already pointed out on this topic she isn't doing that. So no she is not a hypocrite....

One, Saji and Louise never really met. They just heard each other's voice.

Two, Memento Mori should never have been used, or hell even built. That weapon was meant to instill fear into every single person in the world. Weapons of that nature shouldn't even exist. Inflicting massive casualties on teh enemy you can curb future conflicts are you kidding me, a weapon like that will only create more enemies (as episode 14 has just shown us, go Coup d'Etat!!!!!)

LOUISE HALEVY IS A HYPOCRITE!!!!!

[Red Zaku]

One, Saji and Louise never really met. They just heard each other's voice.

They met they even conversed with each other in that episode. Though mostly it was utterly shocked questions.

Two, Memento Mori should never have been used, or hell even built.

Based on? We already know Louise is NOT the only person who donates financially to The A-Laws she is simply the LARGEST donator..... The idea Momento Mori wouldn't have been built without her funds is a logical fallacy....

That weapon was meant to instill fear into every single person in the world.

And? The Nuclear Bomb has been used as a deterent to major conflict Decades under the Principle of M.A.D. or Mutual Assured Destruction. W.M.D's, are as much a deterent to war as a they are a viable weapon. This is another logical fallacy. You're arguing on the basis of public perception of WMD's being bad makes them bad when in truth they are grey...

Weapons of that nature shouldn't even exist.

Weapons of that nature can be attributed to the reason there hasn't been a global war in the past sixty-four years.... Weapons are not inherently evil, Momento Mori isn't ZOMG EVIL WEAPON because it was built. A weapon can only act on the whims of the person or person's using it.

Inflicting massive casualties on teh enemy you can curb future conflicts are you kidding me,

No, not at all. Considering it's been a diplomatic pollicy since the start of the Cold War.....

a weapon like that will only create more enemies (as episode 14 has just shown us, go Coup d'Etat!!!!!)


Except that's not what 14 showed us. 14 showed us there are people in the UN forces tired of the A-Law's control over the Government, which is not spurred on by the actions of Momento Mori alone. You're not commiting the fallacy of False Cause...

LOUISE HALEVY IS A HYPOCRITE!!!!!

You clearly don't even know what that word means if you're using it in this context....

[Allen Walker]

While i agree with everything you have said so far, especially weapons having no alignment( Its the people who use them that decides if they are evil or not) I have to disagree with you here.

But it's not driving her crazy.... at all... what drove her crazy was when she found out Saji was with CB and she thought that he'd been betraying her all along.... This is the THIRD time I had to tell you this. Maybe actually WATCHING the episodes would be a good idea.....

It was driving her crazy. It made her sign up for A-Laws, donate huge amounts of money to them and thrust her self into war. Also she charged at gundams on her own multiple times leaving her platoon behind. That doesn't sounds like a very mentally healthy person to me. Not to say seeing Saji with CB didn't affect her, i just think it's safe to say she was a little crazy even before that.

[Red Zaku]

It was driving her crazy. It made her sign up for A-Laws, donate huge amounts of money to them and thrust her self into war.

None of those things are crazy actions. x.x They're all pretty reasonable responses to her family being killed and her wanting to do something about it. It's no different then the motivations of Kamille Bidan, Seabook Arno, and Uso Evin later on in Victory Gundam. Wanting to avenge the deaths of loved ones and stop the actions of people who are like the group who caused those deaths is completely natural. x.x Simply becauseit's not the reaction you might have doesn't autoamtically deem her actions crazy.


Also she charged at gundams on her own multiple times leaving her platoon behind.

x.x Multiple times? She did it once when she was almost killed. The first time she froze in combat, the next time she get's a legit shot she nearly gets herself killed, and in the more recent encounters til she discovered Saji was with CB had been working very well and actually stuck to formation.

That doesn't sounds like a very mentally healthy person to me.

Largely because you over emphasized how many times Louise was wreckless. Which in an of itself doesn't make her insane or mean she was being driven insane. The same can be used to describe any of your other points above. None of those evn in conjunction don't make anything she'd done crazy.

[Nightfall]

I wouldn't call her crazy.. but after thinking about it, her actions are sort of impulsive. And not really for her own ''good'', I would call it a sad turn of events for her. And I still haven't seen the latest episodes>_< but her condition... doesn't that make her fairly mentally unstable? While i'm not saying she is outright mad at the moment. She certainly isn't completely ''sane'' is she?

Or am I missing the point?

[Red Zaku]

I wouldn't call her crazy.. but after thinking about it, her actions are sort of impulsive.

x.x Which doesn't make her insane. Being impulsive is a personality trait not a sign of mental instability.

And not really for her own ''good'',

See, now there is sometrhing no one can comment on. What's good for some people isn't good for others... What's good for Louise can only be determined. Well, by Louise.

but her condition... doesn't that make her fairly mentally unstable?

Her condition as of her last episode certain is so but it wasn't caused byu the death of her family which she seemed to be adequitely coping with. It's the fact Saji might have been one of the ones responsible for their death.

[Nightfall]

x.x Which doesn't make her insane. Being impulsive is a personality trait not a sign of mental instability.


Well I guess the word I was really looking for was emotionally unstable then>_< but I never claimed she was a downright lunatic.


See, now there is sometrhing no one can comment on. What's good for some people isn't good for others... What's good for Louise can only be determined. Well, by Louise.


Well you are certainly right about this, but I have some mixed feelings about it. I mean when someone is out for revenge, sure it might feel right for them, but in reality aren't they often blinded by their emotions. Instead of sitting down and thinking calm and logically about it.. And will the path she has gone onto now, really be good for her in the end? because I can't see anything else but a female who isn't meant to be on the battlefield, sort of like Andrei Smirnov said to her.. Not to mention she had to face Saji again, which certainly wasn't a good experience for her.

I guess my point is, while it's not my place to judge other people. I just think people close to the person in question, tend to make more levelheaded decisions. And would have helped Louise get back on her feet and not make her join the A-laws. However Saji went into space, so I guess she had no one to support her:\

To me it looks sort of like a short term gain longterm loss.

Ehm I this messy reply makes sense at all>_<

[Wesley]

Isn't jumping to the conclusion that Saji was a terrorist the entire time she knew him evidence of her going crazy?

[BlackSmoke]

Isn't jumping to the conclusion that Saji was a terrorist the entire time she knew him evidence of her going crazy?

Doh http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/faceplam.png Prescription drugs will do that. Poor girl the cancer treatment is affecting her brain cells.

[Red Zaku]

Isn't jumping to the conclusion that Saji was a terrorist the entire time she knew him evidence of her going crazy?

....Isn't the only reasons he got to the point because she found out Saji was with Celestial Being, and fightign against the A-Laws....... Even in that context the idea itself doesn't seem far fetched at all. It's a fairly logical conclusion even if it's inaccurate.

[Wesley]

....Isn't the only reasons he got to the point because she found out Saji was with Celestial Being, and fightign against the A-Laws....... Even in that context the idea itself doesn't seem far fetched at all. It's a fairly logical conclusion even if it's inaccurate.

*Still waiting for that apology*

It's an irrational conclusion to jump to given their history. That he was with them as far back as the time he was a Pizza Delievery Boy. Naturally, accusing him of becoming a member at some point after their seperation is the logical and completely accurate conclusion to come to, but when he shared an apartment with his sister, went to college everyday along with a part time job and never, ever, left the country, that's just plain paranoid and irrational.

[Red Zaku]

*Still waiting for that apology*

For what? :O Calling you out for all the things you say that aren't actually true?

It's an irrational conclusion to jump to given their history.

............Yes, an international network of operatives certainly can't plant people in a country to gather intel on you or your family! :O Nope, not possible. Just because the organization is incredibly well funded, well informed..... I mean....how could they do something like that?

That he was with them as far back as the time he was a Pizza Delievery Boy.

Yes, as we all know Spies never cover their tracks ever.... at all.

Naturally, accusing him of becoming a member at some point after their seperation is the logical and completely accurate conclusion to come to, but when he shared an apartment with his sister, went to college everyday along with a part time job and never, ever, left the country, that's just plain paranoid and irrational.

...........................I can only assume you have no idea how ███ networks and terrorists cells actually operate....

[Wesley]

For what? :O Calling you out for all the things you say that aren't actually true?

No, for doing so in a personally insulting manner. I am not your enemy, so admit your error and get over it. Otherwise, you're little more than heckler to me.

............Yes, an international network of operatives certainly can't plant people in a country to gather intel on you or your family! :O Nope, not possible. Just because the organization is incredibly well funded, well informed..... I mean....how could they do something like that?

I'm sure she could come up with some conspiracy theory as to why she knew him and why he bothered to be around her in the first place. That's not evidence of sanity though. Maybe not insanity either, but it does show irrationality or at the very least immaturity.

Yes, as we all know Spies never cover their tracks ever.... at all.

I doubt Lousie is an expert with intelligence gathering.

...........................I can only assume you have no idea how ███ networks and terrorists cells actually operate....

I'm sure Lousie doesn't either. And even if she did, it's not like she really thought out her accusation. She simply jumped to conclusions.

[Red Zaku]

No, for doing so in a personally insulting manner.

You earned your lumps now take them and stop crying over it.

I am not your enemy, so admit your error and get over it.

>.> Lolz, no just pretty much every wrong thing you say. Which is a lot making the difference almost indecipherable.

Otherwise, you're little more than heckler to me.

>.> Except I didn't even poke fun at you at all in my previous post. I think you're just trying to antagonize me, assuming that by asking for an apology you'll anger me which will cause me to flame you so you can try to banned. x.x As that's fairly obviously the case as you've attempted to bate me before.


That's not evidence of sanity though.

:O when did I say it was? In fact I've used it to point out this was the point where she went insane, a point you tried to refute several times before. I'm just pointing out the logic itself isn't all together insane, or paranoid and is pretty rational given the events in Louises life coupled with the new revelation that sent her off the deep end. :O

Maybe not insanity either, but it does show irrationality or at the very least immaturity.

So what are you even arguing then? I mean aside from nothing. x.x Better yet, you've never watched the scene, and yet you're commenting on it at all. I have to ask why?

I doubt Lousie is an expert with intelligence gathering.

x.x Which has NOTHING to do with the idea of uncover operatives. Which is fairly common knowledge crap. The idea that people will make themselves seem as ordinairy as possible to blend in with their surroundings while actually spying is nothing knew and it's been around for centuries.

I'm sure Lousie doesn't either.

.........She's in a special forces military unit designed exclusively for the suppression of violent terrorists elements.... obviously she'd have no idea how a terrorist network, or spies tended to operate.......


And even if she did, it's not like she really thought out her accusation.

x.x She did you even saw her thought process in flashback mode. Saji is with Setsuna in CB, all that time ago Setsuna and Saji were neighbors, the conclussion is at that time Saji was suppling information to Setsuna. It also explains his wishy washy stance on the GUndams early on as well as CB's activities.... Her conclusion was a lot of things, but not really thought out wasn't one of them....

She simply jumped to conclusions.

One can jump to conclusions with a well thought out validation behind said conclusion...

[Wesley]

Fine, if you're going to be like that I'll just go on ignoring you.

[Nightfall]

Was about to say here we go again.. but you guys beat me to the finishxD

[Red Zaku]

Fine, if you're going to be like that I'll just go on ignoring you.

:D Promise!? :D

[Nightfall]

And so the war finally ends, both sides exhausted from the prolonged conflict:C

And now we shall have ''Peace'':LOS

[Rukia]

Everyone has been too harsh to Saji since the first episode. The guy deserves a break. He was living in the colonies doing a productive job before all of these incidents occurred. He is probably the single biggest victim in the series.

We aren't being too harsh with Louise. She's insane. Killing her off would be good for everyone; even her allies.

[Red Zaku]

Every has been too harsh to Saji since the first episode.

>.> I think you mean everyone.

He is probably the single biggest victim in the series.

.................................................. .................................................. .............................I guess we're not counting Louse who lost her entire family and her limb? x.x Or Lyle who lost his mother and father, and his brother to war/terrorism.......

We aren't being too harsh with Louise. She's insane. Killing her off would be good for everyone; even her allies.

>.> Saji would disagree with you completely. Hell, I disagree with you completely. It's called redemption, it's a good plot device and completely under-used in Gundam.

[Wesley]

Every has been too harsh to Saji since the first episode. The guy deserves a break. He was living in the colonies doing a productive job before all of these incidents occurred. He is probably the single biggest victim in the series.

We aren't being too harsh with Louise. She's insane. Killing her off would be good for everyone; even her allies.

I won't deny that the guy is mostly a victim of circumstance that is mostly not his fault. Really, before abandoning Lousie, he seemed to have his life on the right track. He's more guilty of being very stupid and not fully appreciating what's going on around than anything.

He shouldn't have let himself be bullied into helping them. That's pretty much all there is to it.

[Rukia]

>.> I think you mean everyone.Geez, I typed my post quickly and didn't read it before pressing send. Give me a break.

Louise lost more than Saji? Don't forget that Saji's sister was killed. And I dont exactly see his parents around either. He's alone just like she is. But Saji still managed to overcome his grief and tried to make something of his life. He was screwed over by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He's a victim of circumstance. If only he had been working at a different colony!

[Nightfall]

Personally I would say Louise lost more... she lost her hand, and she is a female. I would say females are generally more sensitive and fragile than guys. Not trying to turn this into a contest of who lost more or not. But I don't see how you can be so apathetic against what Louise has done, mainly calling her a crazy bitch who deserves to die....
And still be completely sympathetic and caring with Saji... They have both been through a lot of emotional trauma, and Louise witnessed first han that her entire family lost their life, and she was near death as well. And if you look at the person she used to be, happy and not used to any hardship what so ever. Can you really judge her for turning out like she did?

I guess my point is that, I feel Louise lost a lot more because she experienced first hand, how her family died. I mean just think of psychological trauma you would have experienced if you were exposed to something like that in real life.. Saji on the otherhand didn't....

[Wesley]

If only he had been working at a different colony!

Or kept his damned mouth shut.

As for his sister, she was a career woman and, as we all know, they have no souls and thus should not be mourned or remembered in any capacity whatsoever.

Personally I would say Louise lost more... she lost her hand, and she is a female. I would say females are generally more sensitive and fragile than guys. Not trying to turn this into a contest of who lost more or not. But I don't see how you can be so apathetic against what Louise has done, mainly calling her a crazy bitch who deserves to die....

It's because she's a girl you have to be harder on her. Women need to know their place. *points at the previous comment regarding career women*

And still be completely sympathetic and caring with Saji... They have both been through a lot of emotional trauma, and Louise witnessed first han that her entire family lost their life, and she was near death as well. And if you look at the person she used to be, happy and not used to any hardship what so ever. Can you really judge her for turning out like she did?

Yes. What is good is always good and what is evil is always evil. Her circumstances suck, she's lashing out, and no one cares about her (where the f- is Andrei in all this? You guys never talk about him. Does he exist solely to repeat his father's mistakes as far as this stupid series is concerned?), but despite all that it doesn't change the fact she's being really stupid and needs some serious education and proper guidance. I mean, even if it doesn't really change the path of vengenance she's on, at least she'll go about it with a clear head and maybe she'll be able to make something positive happen when it's all said and done, instead of simply being an angry wacko for all the wrong reasons.

[Red Zaku]

Louise lost more than Saji? Don't forget that Saji's sister was killed.

I'm not. I just remember Louise's ENTIRE FAMILY was killed. And not just her immediate family EVERYONE her mother, father, cousin's uncles, aunt's, nephews all of them are dead.....

And I dont exactly see his parents around either. He's alone just like she is.

Of course the difference is their parents died a long time ago, Saji still has reletives outside his immediate family, and oh yeah his parents didn't die right infront of his eyes. I also don't see Saji missing any limbs.

But Saji still managed to overcome his grief and tried to make something of his life.

What are you talking about? He still pines to the high heavens for Louise, and his parents died when he was a small child. He says so himself he doesn't even have memories of them. It's hard to compare that to Louise who saw them killed right infront of her face....

He was screwed over by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

......Don't you mean Louise? Saji wasn't screwed over at all aside from the death of his sister and even then it was Kinue who was in the wrong place at the wrong time not Saji....

He's a victim of circumstance. If only he had been working at a different colony!

......And Louise was a victim by circumstance as well, only difference? Her circumstance resulted in the death of everyone she ever knew who was of any relationship to her not named Saji....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for his sister, she was a career woman and, as we all know, they have no souls and thus should not be mourned or remembered in any capacity whatsoever.

....So you're sarcastically arguing for Rukia that just because Saji's sister died that's worse then Louise losing her entire family.... of course what is that based on? The fact Kinue got more screen time then Louises family so obviously because we care more about her then the nameless throw-aways that are Louises family Saji got off worse? See, this is why it was a poor argument, because it wasn't analyzed for Louises point of view just ours. Your sarcastic reply doesn't really make it any better either.... perhaps next time less sarcasm and more critical thinking?


It's because she's a girl you have to be harder on her. Women need to know their place. *points at the previous comment regarding career women*

....Or it could simply be because losing his sister while it's traumatic and terrible is hard to argue being more dramatic and terrible then having every member of your family brutally killed.

Yes. What is good is always good and what is evil is always evil.

Good and evil are entirely abstract concepts formed by popular opinion and history. The losers were bad, and the winners were good. It's just that simple. There is no such thing as absolute right, and absolute wrong, it just doesn't exist anywhere outside of literature.

Her circumstances suck, she's lashing out, and no one cares about her (where the f- is Andrei in all this? You guys never talk about him. Does he exist solely to repeat his father's mistakes as far as this stupid series is concerned?),

Why would be talk about Andrei in a dicussion about Louse? Not to mention Louse herself is pushing Andrei away from her because she has no interest in him. Unless you want him to go force himself on her which it seems like you do.

but despite all that it doesn't change the fact she's being really stupid and needs some serious education and proper guidance.


................You don't even watch the show, but you want to talk about education and guidance? You're not even educated on the material you're trying to comment on because you've already admitted you stopped actually watching the show....

I mean, even if it doesn't really change the path of vengenance she's on, at least she'll go about it with a clear head and maybe she'll be able to make something positive happen when it's all said and done, instead of simply being an angry wacko for all the wrong reasons.

....Except she's going about it for the right reasons so no one else ends up like her family. Joining the military to avenge your dead loved ones doesn't make her crazy, or a whacko. She didn't even display any signs of mental instability until the Saji revelation, once again. WATCH THE SHOW THEN COMMENT! And if you still don't understand what's going on, watch it again until you do because obviously you've missed EVERYTHING so far.

[Nightfall]

^Well as I said the previous page... I disagree on her reasons for joining the military.. She doesn't belong there, she's too fragile and kindhearted to be in a place like that in the first place. And she's participating in killing people outside her ''objective'' she hates CB, not Kataron. And you can clearly see that she's been affected by it, she doesn't have the guts or the will to do something like this. I think this will end in tragedy for her, if she keeps on the road she is atm.

And it's my experience, that hatred and thoughts of revenge, never really help when feeling down. At least I don't think it's the right way to go about things.. then again I never saw my family being butchered infront of me... So I'm kinda talking without knowing what it's like... But for now it's my take on this...

[AshDragon]

To me it looks like Louise is becoming worst in character development. Saji on the other hand is getting better, very very slowly though. At this point, I don't care if anyone of them die, their attitudes and decisions just make me :facepalm everytime.

[Amaya no Hime]

Saji needs to become a man. He's just a whiny little girl.

Louise is being a retard.