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View Full Version : Confiscating toy guns part of US mission in Iraq


dreams lie
12-12-2008, 10:08 PM
MAHMOUDIYA, Iraq – Two boys approached a U.S. soldier, pulled out a pistol and handed it over. They got a smile and some candy in return.

The gun was plastic, and the boys were following a local Iraqi military order to surrender all toy weapons — an effort to prevent children from being mistaken for insurgents.

With more children on the streets now that violence is down, American soldiers have a new mission in this former "triangle of death" city south of

Baghdad: clearing all toy guns from the bustling shopping area as they search for suspected insurgents and weapons caches.

The toy gun ban shows how jittery the U.S. and Iraqi forces still are in a country where the enemy doesn't wear a uniform.

The U.S. warned early this year of a "disturbing trend" of al-Qaida in Iraq recruiting and teaching young boys to kidnap and kill. The military released several videos seized from suspected al-Qaida hideouts in Diyala province north of the capital showing militants training children who appeared as young as 10.

Teenagers have also carried out actual attacks. On Dec. 1, a teenage suicide bomber followed by a parked car bomb struck police recruits in Baghdad, killing 16 people. On Jan. 20, a teenager carrying a box of candy blew himself up at a gathering of tribal members near Fallujah, killing six people.

From a distance, a soldier can't tell whether the weapon is real and has to make a fast decision that could cost someone his or her life.

Soldiers in the Mahmoudiya area recently became alarmed when they saw a boy pointing a gun that looked very realistic. They went on alert and held the child until it was determined that the gun was a toy.

"This is one of the biggest issues that we're encountering right now," said Lt. Cameron Mays, 24, of Marion, Ky. "Right now it's a gray area. You're talking about a prime situation where a U.S. soldier has a split-second to make a decision about whether there's a danger."

The order to ban toy guns in Mahmoudiya and surrounding areas was handed down by Staff Maj. Gen. Ali Jassim al-Freiji, the commander of the Iraqi army's 17th Division, which oversees the region.

1st Lt. Tray Marsh, who took the plastic pistol, congratulated the boys for doing the right thing as he and other U.S. soldiers began a joint foot patrol with their Iraqi counterparts through the city's main market area on Wednesday. The gun was black and had a red cap.

Members of Delta Company, 1st Combined Arms Battalion, 63rd Armor

Regiment, based in Fort Riley, Kan., have collected some 15 plastic weapons in the past two weeks, piling them up on filing cabinets and hanging some on the walls in their office at the U.S. base at Mahmoudiya.

Marsh, 34, of Shreveport, La., later showed another gun from the plastic weapons cache that could easily be mistaken for a real nickel-plated .45-caliber pistol from a distance.

There's no punishment for having a toy gun. The soldiers will just take them away if they find them and perhaps talk to the parents to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Going after toys is somewhat of a welcome change for the soldiers — many of whom are on at least their second tour in Iraq and participated in the fierce fighting that raged as recently as this spring. Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of the capital, is part of a region that was long known as the "triangle of death" because of ongoing battles between Sunni and Shiite extremists.

British soldiers in the southern Iraqi province of Basra have also become concerned about children playing with toy guns, although no ban has been imposed.

The British military issued a public safety announcement on Friday asking parents not to allow their children to play with toy guns on the streets "in case security forces mistake them for real weapons and open fire."

Maj. Bill Young, a British military spokesman, said the issue was coming up for the first time since the war started nearly six years ago — perhaps because of a possible influx of toy guns or because better security is encouraging people to spend more time outdoors.

"Maybe last year children wouldn't have been out on the ground and their parents wouldn't have let them play with the toy guns," he said. "But there is still a risk with a significant number of British and Iraqi troops on the ground with weapons."

Military officials said it was up to Iraqi authorities to impose such bans as part of local security measures. Iraq has no law forbidding ownership of real guns, and every household is permitted to have one firearm for self defense.

But nobody likes to see a child cry — and even battle-weary soldiers have a soft spot.

Mays stopped short during Wednesday's market tour after getting a call on his radio about the latest discovery, then doubled back to the soldiers hovering around the toddler cradling the toy gun.

Iraqi company commander 1st Lt. Mouwaffak Mohammed al-Janabi talked his American counterpart into letting the boy keep the toy, saying his father had been killed by an insurgent.

"OK, but that's the last time. We've got to support Gen. Ali's orders," Mays said.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq_toy_guns;_ylt=Au9PTLC68Bc.HBm1NG2Yc6cV6w8F

Disgusting how the radicals somehow convinced themselves into enlisting teenagers and children. I suppose this is still a sign of progress; normally, these kids wouldn't dare wonder outside, but according to statistics, Iraq as a whole is safer for their citizens than Chicago is for their natives.

Megaharrison
12-12-2008, 10:29 PM
It isn't surprising by this point that they're using kids and teenagers. Essentially every Islamic Group from the Palestinians, to the Lebanese, to the Iraqi Insurgency, to the Chechens, to the Islamic Courts Union, to Al Qaeda, and to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard have a history of child fighters.

Just today, the Taliban had a child suicide bomber kill 4 British Royal Marines.

Inuhanyou
12-12-2008, 10:32 PM
This is mother fucking disgusting. I'm glad bans are being put on those things...maybe now the friendly fire incidents will decrease

Sama'el
12-12-2008, 10:36 PM
Child soldiers aren't unique to Muslim extremist groups. It's a phenomena that is all to prevalent all over the "developing" world. It's one of the sad truths of modern warfare. Gun are the great equaliser, and now even a pre-teen with a gun can be trained to be just a dangerous as an adult.

They're more loyal and they've got a longer shelf-life than adult soldiers, espescially in areas where the adult population has already been decimated by war.

Darklyre
12-12-2008, 10:53 PM
Child soldiers aren't unique to Muslim extremist groups. It's a phenomena that is all to prevalent all over the "developing" world. It's one of the sad truths of modern warfare. Gun are the great equaliser, and now even a pre-teen with a gun can be trained to be just a dangerous as an adult.

They're more loyal and they've got a longer shelf-life than adult soldiers, espescially in areas where the adult population has already been decimated by war.

Not only that, but they know that if Western militaries are in the area, they'll usually hesitate when it comes to facing a child with a weapon.

dummy plug
12-12-2008, 10:54 PM
this is to make it easier for the grunts to identify the fakes from the deadly guns right? :oh

ZigZag
12-13-2008, 04:39 AM
Well at least there just toys and not the real thing.

Xion
12-13-2008, 04:51 AM
That's so cute. Children with guns do kill people so I'm glad we are taking them and doing something about it. :del

neko-sennin
12-13-2008, 06:09 PM
They're more loyal and they've got a longer shelf-life than adult soldiers, especially in areas where the adult population has already been decimated by war.

...Or are finally sick of fighting each other and just want to live in peace, but must instead reap the whirlwind of hatred and madness they sowed in the next generation when they themselves were young and angsty.

Not only that, but they know that if Western militaries are in the area, they'll usually hesitate when it comes to facing a child with a weapon.

Not just Westerners, but most decent human beings who haven't been driven over the edge yet in a war-zone. I was originally going to make some comment on how sad it was that kids' lives are endangered by their own toys, but after contemplating toy guns, I instead find myself wondering what all the soldiers and militants of the world originally wanted to be when they grew up...

The sad truth is that the only difference between the "kids" that different factions recruit is only a few years. Even here in the west, this war boils down to a bunch of cowardly old men hiding behind someone else's children in the name of their religion, be it Church or State or the almighty Dollar.

Megaharrison
12-13-2008, 10:49 PM
. I instead find myself wondering what all the soldiers and militants of the world originally wanted to be when they grew up...

I wanted to be a history professor, but found the world of Academia to be pretentious, dull, and unfulfilling :zaru

~M~
12-13-2008, 11:11 PM
Good.

Should we do something about real guns?..... Not enough funding I think.

Mider T
12-14-2008, 03:11 AM
I actually learned from this article that the terrorists don't abide by the rules of war, no wonder they're held in Guantanamo.

Tokoyami
12-14-2008, 03:15 AM
I actually learned from this article that the terrorists don't abide by the rules of war, no wonder they're held in Guantanamo.
Of course they don't!!! Where in these rules was it written that it was okay for some dumbass to put a bomb in his shoes and blow his ass up?

Sama'el
12-14-2008, 03:23 AM
I actually learned from this article that the terrorists don't abide by the rules of war, no wonder they're held in Guantanamo.

Well, they really have no incentive to. They're not recognized as legitimate combatants, so there's no reason for them to handicap themselves.

Raiden
12-14-2008, 03:33 AM
Now what do we do about the teenagers in Afghanistan that are shooting and killing American soldiers just because it's one of their few opportunities for excitement?

Mider T
12-14-2008, 03:35 AM
Well, they really have no incentive to. They're not recognized as legitimate combatants, so there's no reason for them to handicap themselves.

Don't they want to be taken seriously by countries as a threat? Especially in the middle east where secularism is virtually nonexistent.

Mingming
12-14-2008, 03:43 AM
as long as kids are kept away from the violence of war...

Xion
12-14-2008, 03:45 AM
Now what do we do about the teenagers in Afghanistan that are shooting and killing American soldiers just because it's one of their few opportunities for excitement?

Castrate them. They won't think of doing anything like that again once everyone sees them starting to grow breasts. :P

Johnny Rotten
12-14-2008, 04:09 AM
Wow, we're actually making progress! Not getting kids killed is good? No way! *rolls eyes*

Too little too late in my opinion.

Sama'el
12-14-2008, 04:18 AM
Don't they want to be taken seriously by countries as a threat? Especially in the middle east where secularism is virtually nonexistent.

I suppose they recognize the only truism of international conflict: the only currency that can buy you respect is force of arms.

MonkeyMallet
12-14-2008, 05:02 AM
...Or are finally sick of fighting each other and just want to live in peace, but must instead reap the whirlwind of hatred and madness they sowed in the next generation when they themselves were young and angsty.

Not just Westerners, but most decent human beings who haven't been driven over the edge yet in a war-zone. I was originally going to make some comment on how sad it was that kids' lives are endangered by their own toys, but after contemplating toy guns, I instead find myself wondering what all the soldiers and militants of the world originally wanted to be when they grew up...

The sad truth is that the only difference between the "kids" that different factions recruit is only a few years. Even here in the west, this war boils down to a bunch of cowardly old men hiding behind someone else's children in the name of their religion, be it Church or State or the almighty Dollar.

We agree


I actually learned from this article that the terrorists don't abide by the rules of war, no wonder they're held in Guantanamo.

So we were "abiding by the rules" when we invaded/destroyed Iraq?

Well, they really have no incentive to. They're not recognized as legitimate combatants, so there's no reason for them to handicap themselves.

Exactly. Not just that, but it would be a shame for any person not to defend their land against an occupier. I'm not supporting attacks on our troops, but they shouldn't be there either.

Now what do we do about the teenagers in Afghanistan that are shooting and killing American soldiers just because it's one of their few opportunities for excitement?

What do we do about troops indiscriminately bombing villages in Afghanistan?
What are they gonna sit around listening to ipods, eating mcdonalds while their country is being taken over? :nuts

Don't they want to be taken seriously by countries as a threat? Especially in the middle east where secularism is virtually nonexistent.

Secularism non-existant? You have a huge "I have never stepped foot in the Middle East" sign on your ass :nod

as long as kids are kept away from the violence of war...

Ever watched the FF movie "Advent Children"? Didn't they something like "children r always the first to suffer"?

I suppose they recognize the only truism of international conflict: the only currency that can buy you respect is force of arms.

What? What about money? What about American Express? Visa? maddness!

Sama'el
12-14-2008, 05:08 AM
What? What about money? What about American Express? Visa? maddness!

:sparta

Money buys weapons and soldiers. Ergo, force of arms is still the currency of international conflict.

Q.E.D.

ZeroBlack
12-14-2008, 11:34 AM
I find it funny that people fighting for "God's Will" are sinking so low as to use children to fight their battles. Pathetic.