How did 'god' come to be?

[TheMexicanKingVII]

How did god become who god is? I always wondered about this. There always has to be something that created something. So from my view point something created 'god'. There is a lot of stuff that makes me wonder. The bible has a lot of stories and so, but from my view point the Bible is just a book of morals and hope. If god does indeed exist then there is a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense.

If we are in a sense the only life form out there ,what is the use of other planets? To protect earth from comets and meteors. If were not too die from such things why were they created? Why are there stars? To guide us?

How about aliens, if they indeed exist why? Could they be angels? I doubt it. Why are there aliens? If were the sole beings of the universe created by god then what need is it for them too be? In the bible it said something about a burning chariot coming from the sky.

If god exist does he control everything? He created us and yet doesn't save us from such awful death in which most of us probably don't deserve.

In a way god really doesn't make too much sense, he creates us with free will and wants peace for earth but doesn't interfere as much as he 'use' too in the bible.

I can't understand how did god become too be. " I am what I am." What kind of crock of shit is this? I understand if there is a 'god' I will never be able to comprehend anything that he does.

So I pose this question, How do you feel god came too be? Why and how?

Version 1: God could of been created by the Big Bang with powers beyond powers. It could be very simple that we 'humans' were not exactly created by god. Humans could of existed way before this on another planet. God or Jehovah could of been on a mission by the First Humans to seek other planets but ran into a small problem and got stuck in the Big Bang in which deconstructed Jehovah and recreated him. Instead of going back and reporting he decided to try and make a better world for his race. It was then that he inhabited the earth with life form. Waited a while because still new to his uncompared and decided to try to make a human like him self. Thus he began and decided to make several life forms. Earth Forms, Humans, Angels. Angels were given a small amount of power like God to govern the daily routines and to guide and watch over the humans who were given free will and was more lenient on.

This is just one version of how god is whom he is. ( I also understand god is actually nor man nor women but I like saying he.)

[Left_Right]

My belief is that with people around, they fantasize and put themselves in a dellusion. That is the only option for their meaningless existence.

[Poison-Scythe]

when ur in a stump "turn to the bible"

just doit

[Left_Right]

I was just wondering if christians believe the bible to be the absolute..

[Scorpio3.14]

The way I see it, God is not bound by our space or time. When you can see that you realise that God does not need to be "created". Beginning and end only exists because of the way we view time as linear.

[Zhongda]

yeah.. well he's jus there.. i guess 'time' is somthin that we made up and only exists in this Universe.. 'Time' must be somthing God made.. humans won't understand.. owell!
he's jus there.. unexplainable i guess!

[Vetrean]

I'm a Christian, and while it's alright with me, just as a fair warning, there may be some people who will just bash on you for this. Just a warning.

Anyways, back to the point. No, I don't believe God was created or decreated in the Big Bang. He has always been. Time is actually our perception of things. It is slower for some people, and quicker for others. And there may be some truth to people saying that time goes quicker if you do something you enjoy.

Say God was created in the Big Bang. (while I don't believe it is absolute, I believe it to be near-absolute, simply because some of the things foretold to happen are symbolical, instead of literal. Other than that, yes, I do believe it is absolute.) As the Bible tells us, God created everything. Now, if God were to be created by the Big Bang, who created the Big Bang? Perhaps it simply deconstructed the entity we call 'God', and reassembled him in a different plane of existence. Hmmm, sort of like he was paving the way for us by spending time in this plane of existence, then moving on after it has been perfected.

If science, which must advance rather quickly, based on the rate it's been going, can unravel the mystery of God this quickly, what point is there in having a God? God, Jesus, Jehovah, whatever you want to call him. He is all-powerful, and while it must pain him to do so, he needs to separate himself from us, in order to preserve order, and to sort of remind us who's boss. If we start touting superiority, we end up placing ourselves on the pedestal of 'God.'

Next, I don't believe what you say is correct, MexicanKing. First off, when we go back into the Bible, when God did interfere, it was for our good. Or rather, Israel's good, but that's beside the point.

Yet each time he helped us, we immediately turned back to our idols and sins. Each and every time. With the exception of three people, just three people, there is no one who has not sinned. What point would there be as teh Earth continued to drown itself in sin? Would you continue to help them? And please, don't lie to yourself. Answer honestly. If for hundreds, nay, thousands of years, your chosen people, who you had made promises to, who you had borne out of slavery, and given unto a Promised Land, would you continue to perform miracles to make their lives easier as they forsake you for idols of gold, and bronze, and wood? As they turn to the false gods of their own enemies? Would you?

And then, in the greatest act of love ever witnessed in this world, He sent his one and only Son to die on the cross! All this so that whosoever loved him may be freed from the shackles of sin, so that whoever believed in him, and accepted Christ as their eternal saviour, would not only be saved from spiritual death and eternal damnation, but would have eternal life, free from all sin.

While the "I am who I am" may have confused some of you, it's very clear to me. In saying this, God shows that he doesn't need a fancy name, a strange symbol, or a recognizable appearance to make himself known. He shows that he should be recognizable simply because he is God, and not because he touts a name that is to be proclaimed across the land. (Though in all honesty, his name should be proclaimed anyway. Should've been, I should say) He sets himself apart from the earthly deities, and shows that He is the only God, if only people would accept him.

Aliens? While I believe there are aliens, it is a possibility that God did not create them as he did us. While there are no doubt intelligent life-forms out there, dogs are intelligent. Mice are intelligent. Hell, even insects and worms are intelligent to some degree. Just because there are aliens, does not mean that we are not his Chosen people, as is taught by the scriptures.

However, none of these species have been chosen as God's people. We have.

Other planets? AS part of His grand design. If we could even hope to see into God's mind(or should it be called a mind?), there would be some purpose.

We are taught that everything that happens in our lives, everything that we do or think is already planned out by God, and that it is all for a greater purpose. Who then, can argue that the planets exist for no purpose, if even the little lie you made to your mother back in the first grade may have some purpose?

God has always been, and always will be. I believe he is the center of existence, and the only one to exist on all the fields that we call dimensions. He controls time and space, and can bend the very laws of nature. There is no question of how he came to be, for he always has been.

And I realize that I've deviated from the original subject a bit. But I just felt compelled to type that.

I realize that some people will just think that I'm some fool who doesn't know what he's doing. But the fact is, I know full well what I'm typing. And if this influences any of you, go to the bookstore or library, and crack open the Bible.

Please.

I hope I haven't taken up too much time of your busy lives to read this...ehehe...:sweatdrop

[Zelistor]

you're getting it all wrong TheMexicanKingVII, god didnt create us,,, we created god. im serious. god was created from our minds to explain the mysterious of life. meaning the stuff we werent able to explain. its just like u said it. u ask why does bad stuff happen to good ppl. most ppl say god has a plan. others say its a series of unobservable and uncontrollable cause and effects.

yeah.. well he's jus there.. i guess 'time' is somthin that we made up and only exists in this Universe.. 'Time' must be somthing God made.. humans won't understand.. owell!
he's jus there.. unexplainable i guess!

time is crazy! did u take gr 12 physics? originally physicsts beleived in absolute time. the definition of this being that god created the word a time=0secs and since then, everything has experienced one universal time. however, we have since then realized absolute time does not exist but rather relative time. if I see you going 1/2 the speed of life for 1 minute, for u, u wouldve only been going the speed of light for say, 35 seconds. but not only that. ur bad will actually have aged at this rate too. so say if ur going the 1/2 the speed of light ur whole life, when im 100 yrs old, ull only be 60. u dont even realize that time is going slower for you. our bodies cant sense it at all. it just happens

[martryn]

Lukannon did a great job at explaining this, but I would just like to point out for future reference that if there are aliens they are not more advanced than we ourselves are. And they could not have existed before the Big Bang, or for hundreds of millions of years after as there were no atoms. We are as advanced as anyone.

the definition of this being that god created the word a time=0secs and since then, everything has experienced one universal time. however, we have since then realized absolute time does not exist but rather relative time.

This is all fine and good, but you can't speak about relative time without saying first what it is relative to. God CAN create the universe at time=0 because at the Big Bang there was only one location that contained all the mass of the universe and there was only one observer, God.

[metaphysicool]

What you're not comprehending here (and understably so) is the "concept" of the infinite. What you're doing is putting boundries on the endless.

Simply: God exists and does not exist as a seperate entity from the universe.

OK, I guess that's not so simple. What I mean is: If you put boundries, as the human mind does, on an infinite universe, you are thus constricting it, making it finite. What you're looking at is the finite, that is to say, the bounded, chained, the proverbial Prometheus version of God. That is the state, also, that we exist, seeing each other as different. But the absolute nature of the universe/God/us would be, indeed, absolute. Viewing something as "creating" the infinite is absurd. It would literally consume the being that made it.

Physically and metaphysically the only options are that a) everything has always existed or b) at one point, everything come from absolutely nothing (that is to say, literally blinked into existence)

of course, this is ignoring the possibility of alternate dimensions with equally powerful entities that created it, but the same thing goes for them anyway. :amazed :S :mad :blink


Lukannon did a great job at explaining this, but I would just like to point out for future reference that if there are aliens they are not more advanced than we ourselves are. And they could not have existed before the Big Bang, or for hundreds of millions of years after as there were no atoms. We are as advanced as anyone.


That's not necesarily true. Our planet was created several billion years after the big bang. Relatively speaking, our sun and planet are somewhat young. Theoretically, There could have been races created far more advanced than ours that have already long died out. Theoretically.

But in the end, it wasn't a "ready ..... SET GO!" for life, life moves at it's own pace.

[bigbird]

you're getting it all wrong TheMexicanKingVII, god didnt create us,,, we created god. im serious. god was created from our minds to explain the mysterious of life.
Can you prove this for all the christians out there? People have faith that God exists. People have faith that God doesn't exist. You can't have concrete proof for either one. Just speculaltion.

[martryn]

That's not necesarily true. Our planet was created several billion years after the big bang. Relatively speaking, our sun and planet are somewhat young. Theoretically, There could have been races created far more advanced than ours that have already long died out. Theoretically.

Actually it is quite true. It took so long for subatomic particles to make atoms, atoms to form stars, stars to explode creating new, more complex atoms, galaxies to form, planets to form, ect ect. Most scientists (that know anything about the field) agree that we're about as far along as any living thing could be, but of course that's discluding the crazies that believe in aliens and stuff.

[TheMexicanKingVII]

Well if the 'big bang' theory happened, which I can't prove nor disapprove because simply we were not there when it happened. What plane was it in? It had to be somewhere. It just boggles the mind, If there are other universes that were before this universe, I find it more reasonable.

Now, I also believe that god could be just another made up entity to help guide peoples life’s. People need hope, people can not exist knowing there is no reason to exist knowing, that after life is eternal darkness and death. What we have been shown through time is the world has been a violent and chaotic one, who wants to live like this? So it is very possible that indeed god was made by humans in order to control and govern on how humanity should live.

There are many cultures who did not know of 'out' or the Christian or so forth god but some believed in multiple gods, some believed in different things. If one sole god did in fact exist that why are there different interpretations of 1 god. Is it possible that there are multiple gods? Also take in consideration Dinosaurs a proven 'species' what need was it to be created? Why were they here? Such malicious beasts created by god or were they destroyed by god in order to create us? I'm not too sure in which dinosaurs and the cave man came in, this is 50 or 60 billions years. How long has society been around? 2005 years. So did god try an experiment billions and billions of years ago? Another very unexplained subject.

It really makes you think, and is quiet an interesting idea.

To state, I don't belong to any 'organized' religion but I do believe and also don't believe in god. I guess I'm in the middle trying to decide, should I go with what is there or should I just follow what is not.

[metaphysicool]

How long has society been around? 2005 years

While I get your point, society, i must note, began far before the birth of Christ.

Actually it is quite true. It took so long for subatomic particles to make atoms, atoms to form stars, stars to explode creating new, more complex atoms, galaxies to form, planets to form, ect ect. Most scientists (that know anything about the field) agree that we're about as far along as any living thing could be, but of course that's discluding the crazies that believe in aliens and stuff.

Really, now? I was absolutely unaware of this. Not saying you're wrong, just that I've never seen it. Got on references on it?

[martryn]

Well if the 'big bang' theory happened, which I can't prove nor disapprove because simply we were not there when it happened. What plane was it in?

I think this question has more than one answer depending on who you ask. Either it happened in the same plane as we are in, seeing how space is space, it just would have been space with no heat/matter/energy in it. Or space didn't exist before the big bang and therefore it happened in no plane.

If there are other universes that were before this universe, I find it more reasonable.

That is also a theory but not many physicists follow that line of thought because that would mean that ultimately there are answers to questions that we don't know and can never find out.

Is it possible that there are multiple gods?

It is my believe that there is only one God, but I think that a lot of the many gods thing came about from angels walking the earth in the early days of man. And we all know how quick the Egyptians declared a pharoah as god, so...

Also take in consideration Dinosaurs a proven 'species' what need was it to be created? Why were they here? Such malicious beasts created by god or were they destroyed by god in order to create us?

Dinosaurs were part of the chain of life and evolution that led up to mankind. And they're providing us now with some kickass fossil fuels and stuff.

How long has society been around? 2005 years.

Try tens of thousands of years. There were cities on earth some 17 thousand years ago.

So did god try an experiment billions and billions of years ago?

God doesn't make mistakes so he doesn't need to experiment.

Course, that's all coming from a adament Christian, so... *shrug* Take what you will.

[akuma no omoigakenai saku]

posted by martryn
Most scientists (that know anything about the field) agree that we're about as far along as any living thing could be, but of course that's discluding the crazies that believe in aliens and stuff.

I still don't get this part (though I should probably check that other about this thread to see if this was explained in it).

Even if scientist believe that no life could have existed before life on earth (as they say life on earth happened as soon as it was possible), how does that prove that there are not more "advanced" species. If another planet's life started at the same time, it could still have evolved differently and become a life-form with higher brain function earlier than the same thing happened on earth. If the environment was different, the whole process of evolution would have to change, and they could be genetically/intellectually superior to humans. Also, a different philosophy, religion, and culture emerging among other species could influence the speed of their technological/intellectual/academic progress.

Plus, if somehow the species' instinctual social nature were different, creating larger/smaller tribes than early humans lived in, and then larger/smaller states, it is possible that the diplomatic climate would influence cultural and technological progress. If there was more war, more technologies would be researched by necessity. If there was more peace, resources could be used more efficiently to create innovation. Or the opposite could occur in either situation.

That's all just stuff I pulled out of my ass though. I can't back any of it up with evidence.

[TheMexicanKingVII]

Well having 'christian views' is nice but can we get others? Muslims?

You know when you think about it, the whole universe is like one big ass game to god. Just some guy sittin playing it on the TV and ejoying it.

[Repent]

I think that religion itself was created due to the fact that the human mind can not phathom the fact that when death occurs, you simply cease to exist. Then again, I could be wrong.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

Most scientists (that know anything about the field) agree that we're about as far along as any living thing could be, but of course that's discluding the crazies that believe in aliens and stuff.
How could scientists determine such a thing if they have nothing to compare it too except ourselves?


I think that religion itself was created due to the fact that the human mind can not phathom the fact that when death occurs, you simply cease to exist. Then again, I could be wrong.
This coming from Repent. J/K.

Besides, I thought the Ancients seeded us? The race that came to Earth from another galaxy millions of years ago and then ascended and went to the Pegasus galaxy. Huh? Huh? Anyone with me on this one?

[martryn]

True true true. Different cultures could have spawned different, more advanced alien races. But I'm just spilling out what scientists purport. I'm a skeptic as well (more of the reasoning rather than the principle). I don't believe in intelligent life outside of whatever room I'm currently in.

[blacklusterseph004]

I'm not sure that the theory that aliens are no more advanced than we are is neccessarily true. I don't know for sure, but I think that the dark ages were a significant hinderance on our developement as a species. I don't fully believe in aliens though, not the intelligent kind anyway. I think if they were even as intelligent as we are, we would have detected something by now.

"I don't believe in intelligent life outside of whatever room I'm currently in."

This is the statement of the day! Well done.

[hjkou]

The way I see it, God is not bound by our space or time. When you can see that you realise that God does not need to be "created". Beginning and end only exists because of the way we view time as linear.

that could be a good point of view about the matter

but if you seriously think about it for a sec, time being 2D or not, god HAD to be created at one point.

also brings along the argument of religion vs science, even if science won the argument.. something had to create that single molecule in which the big bang was caused from. it didnt just plop out of.. nothingsness, and even if it did, where did the nonthingness come from?
etc. etc..

[Jun]

I may get very flamed for this, but... me, being a 13-year theology student (yea, I was forced to be on catholic schools all my life) have pretty much all the knowledge on god like... perhaps, some other people in here.
I came to my own conclusion after studying 'him' throughly....

god is nothing but the first and oldest fairy tale on humankind. a way to explain the unknown... the unexplainable...... the mistakes of nature itself.

nothing more. nothing less.

[Strider]

but if you seriously think about it for a sec, time being 2D or not, god HAD to be created at one point.

not necessarily. have you ever tried explaining multi-variable differential calculus to a 7 year old? chances are that you won't be very successful in making them understand it. the whole concept of "god" could be something that is completely beyond our current level of understanding. the human mind just can't grasp it. this is sort of like what zen buddhism teaches.

or as some people have said, god could just be an idea created by humans to explain what they can't explain, an "opium of the masses." whatever the reasons may be, god could just have been made up.

@lukannon
you make a lot of really good points, but i think my issue is with the idea of the "chosen people." if god created all life on earth, why would he show favoritism on a certain group of people? you could trace it back and bring up the covenant with abraham. but once again, why pick out one person and his family line to favor over all of your other creations? that's not a very loving god.

i, too, have studied theology for a long time, and it's clear that the teachings of the old testament differ from those of the new testament. the old testament talks about the chosen people and their struggles, whereas the new testament tries to break that. christ preached unconditional love, no matter who. he taught to love your neighbor as you love yourself, whether they are the "chosen" or not.

anyway, i digress. god's existence may be something completely beyond our understanding or completely made up. who knows? i don't think it should really matter.

[Jun]

perhaps is beyond our understanding.... but people still question it.

thousands of years ago, MANY things were beyond human understanding and all they did was blame it to some god's will.
same thing happens now.

it is really uncertain what or where is god from, or if it even exists.
until the day I die.....

...i'll just hang on to my questions and hope i get answers after this life is through.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

I may get very flamed for this, but... me, being a 13-year theology student (yea, I was forced to be on catholic schools all my life) have pretty much all the knowledge on god like... perhaps, some other people in here.
I came to my own conclusion after studying 'him' throughly....

god is nothing but the first and oldest fairy tale on humankind. a way to explain the unknown... the unexplainable...... the mistakes of nature itself.

nothing more. nothing less.
That's the fun thing about God, you can believe you know everything about Him from studying papers and such, but you don't need to know all that stuff to know Him. You could have researched documents on me your entire life and still believe that I'm a fairy tale, but if you had actually known me or in this case talked to me on here then you would know me or anyone throughout history in that matter. You can still know someone and not know everything about them or think you do at least.

And everyone's right when they say God didn't come to be. He was, is, and always will be from our linear time perspective, which means He is above time and thus had to create time in order that we could be born, live, and die. I don't think things outside of time can do that.


EDIT: And I will add that knowing God is most wonderful.

[Jun]

ehh.... you are religious as I see.
go join the Jesus Christ FC.
people like you make me sick.

[metaphysicool]

ehh.... you are religious as I see.
go join the Jesus Christ FC.
people like you make me sick.

Are you implying the religious people make you sick?

[Jun]

Are you implying the religious people make you sick?

umm.... in a language you can understand:

'yes'

:thumbs

[tootaa18]

umm.... in a language you can understand:

'yes'

:thumbs

as if anyone would care about your stupid opinion

i really recommend that you keep it to yourself :wink


back on the topic.....

i don`t think someone created God

that`s why we worship him cuz he`s the creater of everything

i can`t proof that there is a God out there and no one can proove that there is no God it`s a matter of faith :amuse

[Haik]

For the people that think God is a fairy tale then it will be a fairy tale for them and they will live this life without a belief and die. Nothing else

For the people who believe in God, God will show them a path to become one with God so they can be where they suppose to be.

btw, show some respect for the religious people and think before you answer.

[skunkworks]

For the people that think God is a fairy tale then it will be a fairy tale for them and they will live this life without a belief and die. Nothing else

For the people who believe in God, God will show them a path to become one with God so they can be where they suppose to be.

btw, show some respect for the religious people and think before you answer.

It's this kind of tone that turns people off in regards to religion and its followers.

[Poison-Scythe]

Opinions, opinions.

Don't Matter cuz u can't really change no body's mind. if u can congratz

[Anthriel]

In the end, both attempts to prove God's existance and attempts to prove he does not exist are equally ridiculos. So everyone should just belive what they, well believe in, and not try to convert people to their religion or atheism.

As for the actual topic: You will always have that problem, no matter if you believe in a god or not. Either God (or mass) was always there, or it just appeared out of nowhere. Both of these options don't seem logical to us and go against what we know about the world.
Well ... okay, there might be a third option, that time didn't exist until some point. But if anything, that is even stranger for us.

[Cthulhu-versailles]

Actually it is quite true. It took so long for subatomic particles to make atoms, atoms to form stars, stars to explode creating new, more complex atoms, galaxies to form, planets to form, ect ect. Most scientists (that know anything about the field) agree that we're about as far along as any living thing could be, but of course that's discluding the crazies that believe in aliens and stuff.

I really hate that statment... scientist have conclude that humans ae the most advance possible things in existance at the moment oh please. Blah virus and parasite are more advanced in body structure as they can adapt and breed at a constant pass. For one the word advanced is only associated to those who are using it. To some humans having a high spirtual enlightment, would mean something is more advanced.. to others the ability to learn, yet to others it would be the level of harmony maintained amongst areselves. There alot more things that can be assigned to the word advanced, it doesn't have one clear meaning.

As far along as any living thing can be ARE YOU JOKING... humans are the most vain vicious creates on the earth. We bicker over stupidities kill for no reason but boredom, populate are own homes, and allow areselves to be controlled by conglomerites and marketing. Bah humans suck.

Anyway about that atom thing you said. Since I don't know much about that, I wanna know are you saying that within this given space we live in, taking into accounht all the extraordinary phenoments that exist.. quasar, black holes, etc alter being could not exist on some sort of plane, or have exist and parashed within an alloted time.

I hate to say this again but time is relative... Miilions of years to us could be 15 minutes to a once existing specieis.

Honestly humanity technology and science is so far of and pathetic at the moment we have no damn right to go around making absolutle statements.

I don't believe or disbelieve in a more advance race, because science knows it is not all knowing and cannot give an absolutle answer to either side. However based upon SCience the universe is endless... it is not a space that suddenly stops at some point in time. With such a wide vast disturbing amount of mystery, unknown enegy sources, species It is not a "crazy" thing to say that it is quite plausible that not onl does another species eixst but that it is far beyond us.

One last thing- I don't want to get all comic booky but, other species wouldn't have to be living on some planet, or even be visible to any form of are technology. Or even could be so large they cannot be detected.

Sceince and religion are both meant to give reassurance to belief, and once an attachment is built to one opinions become completle certainties and objectivity becomes a joke.

I for one don't think god exist(atheist) so I don't think God was create or simply exist God is a figment formed due to the fear and lure of the unknown as well as for social control. MY OPINION

the thing is though if some else wants to say yeah I believe in God and yeah God always existed and just is. They can go ahead and believe that, because they have been cultured and need to believe just that... and in fact HEY Maybe it's ture I don't know for sure they don't but we pick sides.

---Seriously though, I was just gonna read the post in here until I saw one of these ... supposed facts OMG... (get the pun) these sublitely created idociristies by the humanity get funny every day.

Scientist seem to basically being saying from what you'v e said when you strip away day supposed proof and fancy ass term "HUMANS ARE DA BOMB, ain't nobody can get near us"

----

[CrazyMoronX]

How did God come to exist? Short answer, he always existed, ALWAYS.

How did the universe come to exist? Can scientest explain that? Big Bang? Before that? Who created the stuff before that leading up to the Big Bang? Where did that stuff come from? It had to of been made somehow right?

God lives outside of time. He is infinite, and it's impossible to grasp how he came to existance, because he was always there.

It's also impossible to grasp through an evolutionary stance on where the "stuff" that made the Big Bang possible came from.

[metaphysicool]

umm.... in a language you can understand:

'yes'

:thumbs

:amuse

Just making 100% sure I didn't miss anything. Thank you for being condescending, though.

Anyway, if it's their existential point, what's the problem with that? Are they missing something that you, as a non-religious person, are so clearly seeing?

And just out of curiosity, are you a full-out atheist or do you take part in non-group spiritual things? Or I guess the other option could be apathy, but you don't seem to apathetic if most of the world makes you nauseous.

I guess I should note that I'm not practicing a religion, per sé, though I do subscribe to the Zen philosophy.

[Limitles Shadow]

God was created by the Priests and used to create concrete order among the masses.
The notion of God is inherently produced by our morality (the morality of slaves).

Nietzsche's explanation is very well articulated.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

See God isn't bound by time. God created time like everything else and bought it about. God was and is just always there.

Now that there is time and we are all so used to it, we find the idea of time not existing, absurd.

My opinion. :)

[Addy]

Some say human beings are unable to perceive or understand the awesome power that is God.

I dont believe in the whole man created God theory, but all in all its very interesting and also very thought provoking.

[blacklusterseph004]

you make a lot of really good points, but i think my issue is with the idea of the "chosen people." if god created all life on earth, why would he show favoritism on a certain group of people? you could trace it back and bring up the covenant with abraham. but once again, why pick out one person and his family line to favor over all of your other creations? that's not a very loving god.

i, too, have studied theology for a long time, and it's clear that the teachings of the old testament differ from those of the new testament. the old testament talks about the chosen people and their struggles, whereas the new testament tries to break that. christ preached unconditional love, no matter who. he taught to love your neighbor as you love yourself, whether they are the "chosen" or not.

I'm getting a little off topic, but I just wanted to share something I read a while back with regards to Strider's post. He asked why would God have "chosen people" if he loves all of us equally. The writer of this book (I think he was Hal Linsday) proposed that this was part of a series of tests that God was subjecting humanity to.

The first test envloved Adam and Eve. Man was placed in paradise (Eden) and simply had to obey God and follow one simple rule. Man obviously failed. The second test was when God used the Israelites (chosen people) to be his representatives to the world, and a few more rules were added. Man failed this as well. We are suppossedly in the test where the teachings of Jesus are in effect. Any person can now be used by God, and followers of Jesus form part of the church. The next test is the millenial kingdom (see Revelations) where Jesus rules over the world directly.

I'm not saying this viewpoint is true or not, I just though it would be interesting to share. Note also thatI have drastically summarised it from what was in the book.

[Jun]

Heheh... you guys remind me of all those people who bloat about belevin' in god and whatnot; and out in the streets, toss curses and fingers to the people who drive wildly around them, or never give one cent to the poor or the hungry (bums) and try to disguise themselves as "followers of god".

thanks to guy that gave me negative rep just becuz i expressed my honest opinion. is that what you god teaches you? *scoffs*
look, you ignorant prick.... this IS a forum afterall... you should learn to respect people's opinion. even if then don't agree with you.

[Rocklee88]

if there is "God", then i would like to know is the superior being who created "God".
or is there such a thing as creation or origin that can be applied in this theory?

not trying to be cynical, i just have a lot of questions.

[Jun]

read above, my babe-licious asian babe.......

there is no 'god'
just tradition that tracsends time.

[Haik]

This goes to Uchiha Jun:

uhu and you give me this neg rep:"fuck you and religious people too! ~Jun"

Really you are not hurting me, only yourself. Be carefull what you say.
I am a strong believer, if you have problems with it, come say it in my face and not in a forum like a wussy that you are.

There is a difference in "how" to say an opinion.
for example: ehh.... you are religious as I see.
go join the Jesus Christ FC.
people like you make me sick.

Don't think you understand life because you don't have a clue how low you are.

[Jun]

does the above post make you feel more manly?? or closer to god?
or both?
this is why you make me sick. ignorant fanatism is what has this world as fucked up as it is. and if i negative repped you like that, is because of your negative rep, to begin with.

oh and trust me, your 'god' gave you the chance to live by keeping you away from me.
be grateful. :amuse

[Haik]

oh and trust me, your 'god' gave you the chance to live by keeping you away from me.
be grateful. :amuse

If i had known you, I would have kut off your head and send it to your mother. Watch your words because you don't know who your talking to. Don't get to tough behind your computer!
I will break every bone in your body and put you in a coma so you would suffer.

Never laugh with my God or i'll break your neck!

[Jun]

If i had known you, I would have kut off your head and send it to your mother. Watch your words because you don't know who your talking to. Don't get to tough behind your computer!
I will break every bone in your body and put you in a coma so you would suffer.

Never laugh with my God or i'll break your neck!
geez.... :notrust
is this what your god teaches you? oh my.

hahahaha.... :rofl
this reminds me of one of George Carlin's stand-ups: (and I will quote his WHOLE stand-up just to make it up for all the information you lack inside that empty brain of yours.) :P

George Carlin on religion


When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

(Copyright 1999 by George Carlin. Printed without permission.)

oucchhhh baby.... i'm so cool i'm freezing myself. :D

[JusDaMan]

in the words of chapman to

God was human
but he can do what human can not do
that is why he became a god

[Haik]

geez.... :notrust
is this what your god teaches you? oh my.

hahahaha.... :rofl
this reminds me of one of George Carlin's stand-ups: (and I will quote his WHOLE stand-up just to make it up for all the information you lack inside that empty brain of yours.) :P

George Carlin on religion


When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

(Copyright 1999 by George Carlin. Printed without permission.)

oucchhhh baby.... i'm so cool i'm freezing myself. :D

Did you also suck GC cock when he said that and now worship him as a God to suck his cock every day?

What can i say, a moron stays a moron. Good luck with your life, I don't have time for idiots like you...

[Jun]

What can i say, a moron stays a moron. Good luck with your life, I don't have time for idiots like you...
as expected from you... another quitter after being pwned in every way.
you're no fun!

walk away now... i have a TRUE life to live for, not fairy tales. :) :cool

[TheMexicanKingVII]

The GC shit was funny and I remember that shit, that was so funny.

Haik why you talking about cuttin this guys head off and breaking this guys bones. You should find more peaceful ways too do it.

[Jun]

The GC shit was funny and I remember that shit, that was so funny.

Haik why you talking about cuttin this guys head off and breaking this guys bones. You should find more peaceful ways too do it.
Ah ah ahhh.... remember...... that's HIS god's teachings! :laugh

[Haik]

Ah ah ahhh.... remember...... that's HIS god's teachings! :laugh

if your so smart, let me ask you 1 simpel question. What would happen if you could see God?

[TheMexicanKingVII]

If I seen god, we would pack a drink together. Then we would go out meet some honeys. Since god is awesome, we would both get laid.

God can't be seen it would be to overwhelming for the human body too take and we would die. I think this might be in the bible, then again maybe not.

[Jun]

if your so smart, let me ask you 1 simpel question. What would happen if you could see God?
If I wasn't so bored, I wouldn't even bother replyin'
but, here goes:

nothing would happen if I saw god cuz....
there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God.

[bigbird]

ah ah aaahh... that's his god's teachings
No, Uchiha Jun that's his temper getting out of control. And that George Carlson stuff is the most one-sided bullshit I've ever seen. It's obvious that guy never picked up the bible. Was that guy being serious when he said all that? I guess there are some people who will go to any lengths to make themselves look stupid. If you're going to bash religion, come with a better argument.

[Haik]

If I wasn't so bored, I wouldn't even bother replyin'
but, here goes:

nothing would happen if I saw god cuz....
[SIZE="2"]

No really I wasted to much time on you, you should be glad really, how dumb a person can be like you.

[TheMexicanKingVII]

Even though GC doesnt really have any effect. He makes a lot of good points.

[Jun]

No, Uchiha Jun that's his temper getting out of control. And that George Carlson stuff is the most one-sided bullshit I've ever seen. It's obvious that guy never picked up the bible. Was that guy being serious when he said all that? I guess there are some people who will go to any lengths to make themselves look stupid. If you're going to bash religion, come with a better argument.

like what? politics? your mom?
what argument is good enough to fight against stubborness?
I cannot argument with clowns like Haik... I only debate with good debaters. With proof. Scientific method.
Stuff like that.
Give me one redundant, obvious proof that god existed. 1. just 1.
I beg of you. If you know more than that prick.... the mike is all yours buddy.

we're in the land of the free... afterall....... and the HOMmmeee offff theeee.... BRAAAAVVVVEEEEE!!!

[bigbird]

I can't give you concrete proof that God exists. All I have to offer is my faith. But can you give me concrete proof that God doesn't exist? I highly doubt it. It's just a matter of what you believe in.

As for GC's monolauge or whatever you wanna call it, first off his conception of God all wrong. He can't say God is an invisible man, because he doesn't know and no one else knows what God really looks like. He thinks God is suppose to be all loving towards us? Yes, it is true that God has unconditional love for us, but he is also JUST. He punishes those who wrong him by sending them to hell. And they stay in hell until they repent and acknowledge God as their superior.

The war, disease, poverty, and all the other bad things of this planet were not brought onto this Earth by God, but by us. I guess GC can't accept that humans are responsible for all this, so he goes off and blames earth's problems on something he doesn't believe in. The second Adam and Eve bit into the apples from the Tree of Knowledge, they forever tainted the human race. Did God make them do it? No. Satan tempted them and they chose to disobey their creator. So we are to blame, not God.

ANd God isn't as mean as everyone thinks he is. There are instances where he has been wrathful, but the fact he sent his son to die for us, so we can get into heaven overrides all the horrible things he did. And his son was willing to suffer 6 hours of agony on the cross, and forever bear our sins for us so we can get into heaven.

As for the Divine Plan, I can't really give an argument there, cuz I don't understand what it is with all the contradictions it brings up. But just because I don't have an answer does not mean there is no answer. It just means, I have to get my thoughts together on this and hopefully later on I can give a good arguement.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

No really I wasted [too] much time on you, you should be glad really, how dumb a person can be like you.
Haik, why is there so much hate in your voice? What God do you follow that is so unloving towards unbelievers? The God that I know, Jesus, would never treat anyone like that or say those things. Do not let your anger control you.



When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
Invisible man, no, God, creator.

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
God doesn't need money. God doesn't need any of that. A church is a group of people who are followers of Christ. The church alone needs no money. The Church's building does and to pay the pastor and the other people who work to support the church and the building. You give money to the church not just so people have a place to congregate, but so that the church can give money out to others who are in need of it: the poor, the homeless, missions, people in disaster zones.

However, it is the will of the human heart to take more than it needs for these purposes and that is one of the corruptions of the church. When the church begins buying expensive materials and holding onto it's money, it is in trouble. That's why the letters were written to all the churches in the new testement, so that if any of these corruptions come to the church, they will know how to deal with it. But churches don't always recongnize that what they are doing wrong. They forget their first love, they focus too much on doctrine, they forget what Jesus has taught and so on.

It's not God's fault, it's our own. We forget who created us and what He wants for us. We think of ourselves and do things to get what we want for our own personal greed.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
War, disease, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption...these are not things of God. These are brought to us...well, by us. God doesn't start war, create destruction, cause hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, and corruption. We do. We do because we do what we like to do. We're greedy and corrupt. These are not the things God intended for His creation. Non of these things existed in the beginning. They began after we were allowed to follow God or live our own life.

And God is not a man. He is a being that exists above of our time and space. I doubt he has a gender, but we refer to Him as "He" over saying "It" or "God" all the time and that's the way it's been for thousands of years; no changing it now.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
I realize the sarcasm here, but if he really worshipped the sun, he would be creating a false idol, something that isn't God, but made up by humans to be a god. That's foolishness, but that's also what a lot of people throughout the ages have done.

The crucifixions and the burning of people by people in the name of religion is also foolishness. This is once again the corruption of the church and the teachings of Christ. People get too involved with themselves and they forget to talk to God. Only He can set us in the right path. We ignore Him because we don't want to change the habits we like because of our sinful nature. We don't want to give those things up because in the darkness we can do what we want to do and we can hide there too. Other's don't have to know the things that we have done and we try to hide from God too, but we can't do that. God sees all.

But God loves His creation so much that He is willing to forgive us for all that we have done, even for killing His own Son. The only thing we have to do is repent and ask for forgiveness and do our best not to sin anymore, but to do what God asks of us so that we can be closer to Him. He wants to give us a second chance instead of destroying us. Even within all of our corruption, He still hopes that we will turn to Him and realize that we can't live by ourselves making our own rules and such. We need Him and He wants to allow us to see that. He's giving us a second change and we can either take it or throw it away.

He even tries to win us over by threating to send us to hell. Even though we know of hell and the consequeces of it if we continue sinning, we don't stop sinning. We know that if we reject God that we will be without Him in hell for all eternity, but we still decide to go down that path. Doesn't anyone see something wrong here. We see our pleasures of the "right now" to be so good that we are willing to go to hell for it. God didn't create hell to punish us, He did it so that we would choose to be with Him. He's given us so many chances, but many are not taking them and still decide to go down the road of destruction.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.
Praying is how we talk to God, how we communicate with him, how we tell Him what is going on in our lives. Praying is like talking to your dad or mother or friends. You talk them and tell them what is going on in your lives and such and such so that your relationship can grow. If you never talk to your friend except when you need something, he's probably not going to answer back because he doesn't know you. You pray to talk to God and to ask Him to help others and soften peoples' heart so that they may accept Him into their lives.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?
Why would you ask God of something that isn't of His nature? God has a plan that will turn as many of us back to Him as possible. That's what He wants of us. He's not going to answer prayers that leads you away from Him or material things that you want just because you want them. If you asked your friend for his wife or asked him for a car, he would probably ignore you. If you asked him to help you though or just to hang out or something along those lines, he would probably accept. God listens to us and when we're asking for His help, He will turn to help us.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
Did you know that one day is like a thousand years to God and a thousand years is one day? When we ask for something, we expect an answer right away. We're not much for this waiting patiently sort of thing, but that's how it is with God. You have to keep asking Him too. If you wanted a piano for your birthday, you would tell your mother many times so that she would know that is what you really wanted. If you just told her once, she would probably wonder if you were serious or not. You keep praying to God for things, knowing that He may very well answer it, but you have to be patient for it could take years for Him to act upon it. It may take years because of His plan, that something may turn out a certain way for the best of His children even though we don't understand it.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.
God is not going to answer foolish prayers. He's not there to serve you. You have a noisy neighbor and you can deal with it yourself, then do it. A noisy neighbor is not of God's concerns.

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened[.]
Do not test God either. He sent His Son down to us to teach us His Word and some did not listen. Then they said to Jesus, "If you are truely the Son of God, show us with your might so that we believe." He showed us through His ways and His teachings. He never sinned once. How could any man not sin once? They didn't believe Him through Truth, so why would the believe Him through His power. God knows these things. He could have struck this guy down on the spot, but He knows that people would still have doubts. "Wow, that was quite the coincidence!" Do not test your father. The final judgment is coming and if you wait where you are, you will see it, and you will regret it. Just because He doesn't strike you down now, doesn't mean He won't.

[Haik]

Haik, why is there so much hate in your voice? What God do you follow that is so unloving towards unbelievers?

I can't stand that moron, sry he's just an idiot.

Anyway I'm a Christian and i have nothing against unbelievers but I wan't respect and he definetly doesn't have that. My 2 best friends don't believe in God but I respect them and they me. Anyway I wanne stop talking about Jun because he's not worth it, let him think whatever he thinks.

Anyway let me tell you a couple of things.
The God that I know, Jesus, would never treat anyone like that or say those things

Jesus was no God, he was the messias/profet. Don't ever say Jesus is a God!

but the fact he sent his son to die for us, so we can get into heaven overrides all the horrible things he did. And his son was willing to suffer 6 hours of agony on the cross, and forever bear our sins for us so we can get into heaven.

This is NOT true, who said you that? Jesus didn't came to bear our sins. Jesus came to show us the path to God because you only can reach God through Jesus. Try to understand what Jesus says in the Bible.

If you have any other questions, ask me I will exlain it whit pleasure.

[mdd4696]

The notion of a God or some other higher power comes from the human desire for purpose and meaning in our lives. It is unsettling to think that we are all just bits of matter that randomly came together and interacted in a very specific manner. It is even more unsettling to think that what we know as conciousness and sentience, may not be any more significant than an interesting chemical reaction.

People seek a way to add permanence to their lives. The promise that there is something else out there, greater than ourselves, that exists beyond time... it's a very seductive proposition. It is, in large part, an ego booster.

I'm an atheist, and I believe in science. Nearly all religion is based on faith. It is difficult for me to discuss religion and related topics with theists, because I explain my beliefs with reasoning. Reasoning and argument are based on logic. If one bases their belief on faith, there is no way for that person to understand what I believe, because that person has already demonstrated that he or she does not feel that logic and reasoning have value.

I believe in the truth, and I feel that scientists have come up with some of the best guesses possible as to what that is. I do not believe religion is the truth, because there is no reasoning or logic behind its arguments.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

I can't stand that moron, sry he's just an idiot.

Anyway I'm a Christian and i have nothing against unbelievers but I wan't respect and he definetly doesn't have that. My 2 best friends don't believe in God but I respect them and they me. Anyway I wanne stop talking about Jun because he's not worth it, let him think whatever he thinks.
If you were a Christian, you would respect everyone, show them what they are not. If you do the same things as others, then you are just as good/bad as them. Don't you get it? We can't let the bad get the best of us, otherwise we're not showing everyone who God is and that is what leads to people hating us, telling us what hypocrites we are. We have to rise above that sort of thing and try to live Christ-like lives.

EDIT: I wasn't saying that Christians don't make mistakes with that first sentence; it refers to the below:

Jesus was no God, he was the messias/profet. Don't ever say Jesus is a God!
You're not a Christian no matter what you think. Jesus is God, God in the Flesh, His Son. If you don't believe that, than you are not a Christian and it would be highly respectable of you to not tell others this lie or you will be misguiding them. God has three parts, God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; all of Him, but kind of in different forms. God is the being that exists throughout all time and is the Creator. Jesus is God in the Flesh, lived life on Earth to save us from our sins. The Holy Spirit is God's Word and His Truth. His Truth is what is in our hearts fromt he start. That's we all know what is right/wrong, even though sometimes it's hard to pull that up and out.

This is NOT true, who said you that? Jesus didn't came to bear our sins. Jesus came to show us the path to God because you only can reach God through Jesus. Try to understand what Jesus says in the Bible.
Jesus does bear the weight of our sins. He died with his blood so as to cleanse us so that God could forgive us of our wrong doings. You're right when you say that the only way to God is through His Son though.

[mdd4696]

...And then, in the greatest act of love ever witnessed in this world, He sent his one and only Son to die on the cross! All this so that whosoever loved him may be freed from the shackles of sin, so that whoever believed in him, and accepted Christ as their eternal saviour, would not only be saved from spiritual death and eternal damnation, but would have eternal life, free from all sin....

Hey Lukannon "THEY TOLD ME TOOOOOOOOO!!!!!", there's no way you are 12 years old. You either copied that post from something else, or you are simply repeating what you have been told. In either case, what you have posted is entirely useless. How can you possibly believe what you have just said, if it was not you that wrote it?

If you are just repeating someone else, you are not stating belief. You are playing the marionette.

Edit: Maybe not entirely useless. You reminded me of a good way to describe how I arrive at my beliefs (if anyone cares to read). I do not believe something unless I can arrive at a conclusion that supports it by my own means. That is, I do not believe something simply because someone tells me it is so.

[Jun]

I have to give you props, at least you read the whole thing.

I don´t have quite enough time to reply to this in a correct manner...I have to pick up my wife. but I can tell you this:
I know how blindly in love you are with your god.... you would even sacrifice your kids life for god or even the life of the woman (or man, or plant) you love...
and it would be an honor for you. that's sad....
and that´s just you man.
for once, I havent met any religious person who wouldn´t try to stick his ´god´ into me with that lamey attitude. and that´s a real pity... cuz there i find out you have no mind of your own. you cant think by yourself cuz you do everything your god tells you to. even if it goes against your will or something that benefits you and/or your loved ones.

I stand corrected.
this is why religious fans make me sick.
puppets!

[Haik]

If you were a Christian, you would respect everyone, show them what they are not. If you do the same things as others, then you are just as good/bad as them. Don't you get it? We can't let the bad get the best of us, otherwise we're not showing everyone who God is and that is what leads to people hating us, telling us what hypocrites we are. We have to rise above that sort of thing and try to live Christ-like lives.

EDIT: I wasn't saying that Christians don't make mistakes with that first sentence; it refers to the below:


You're not a Christian no matter what you think. Jesus is God, God in the Flesh, His Son. If you don't believe that, than you are not a Christian and it would be highly respectable of you to not tell others this lie or you will be misguiding them. God has three parts, God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; all of Him, but kind of in different forms. God is the being that exists throughout all time and is the Creator. Jesus is God in the Flesh, lived life on Earth to save us from our sins. The Holy Spirit is God's Word and His Truth. His Truth is what is in our hearts fromt he start. That's we all know what is right/wrong, even though sometimes it's hard to pull that up and out.


Jesus does bear the weight of our sins. He died with his blood so as to cleanse us so that God could forgive us of our wrong doings. You're right when you say that the only way to God is through His Son though.

My friend, Jesus is not God, your kidding me right? That's the greatest sin you can ever say.
sry to say this but your getting it all wrong. I'm not gona tell you whole the story... Because I don't do this kind of talks on the forum, if your intrested you can private message me your msn and i'll explain it to you...

[bigbird]

I can't stand that moron, sry he's just an idiot.

Anyway I'm a Christian and i have nothing against unbelievers but I wan't respect and he definetly doesn't have that. My 2 best friends don't believe in God but I respect them and they me. Anyway I wanne stop talking about Jun because he's not worth it, let him think whatever he thinks.

Anyway let me tell you a couple of things.


Jesus was no God, he was the messias/profet. Don't ever say Jesus is a God!



This is NOT true, who said you that? Jesus didn't came to bear our sins. Jesus came to show us the path to God because you only can reach God through Jesus. Try to understand what Jesus says in the Bible.

If you have any other questions, ask me I will exlain it whit pleasure.

Jesus came onto this earh to show us the way God wants us to live our lives and to die for our sins so that we can reach God thru Jesus. And trust me, I know what Jesus says in the bible. Analyzing his parables is no easy task and I know enough to not threaten to hack someone's head off and give it to his mother.

[Haik]

what a complete fault of me to ever post on this forum. You people don't even have a clue what your talking about. Even the religious people don't have a single clue of understanding life and the Bible.

[mdd4696]

Opinions, opinions.

Don't Matter cuz u can't really change no body's mind. if u can congratz

Wisely spoken, young master. I would then like to address this thread's entire audience: If this thread does not change but one thing, I hope it changes the way you think about what you believe.

Notice how there is such disagreement between posters. Does any one side think it is less right than the other side?

Do you (the reader) feel that you are right in your beliefs? Are you more right than someone else? If so, how can you support your claim that you are more right than someone else? You have to admit, right or wrong in this conversation is probably impossible to identify.

[mdd4696]

what a complete fault of me to ever post on this forum. You people don't even have a clue what your talking about. Even the religious people don't have a single clue of understanding life and the Bible.

Then educate us Haik. This is what religious representatives have been saying for years. When questioned, or met with disagreement, they can always fall back on the "you don't have a clue" argument.

Ever heard "You must find God before God finds you" before?

[Hagi]

it all comes down to how you percieve the bible and jesus's teachings its normal for people to have different views on it but you have no right to bash them or think there wrong.

[Haik]

Then educate us Haik. This is what religious representatives have been saying for years. When questioned, or met with disagreement, they can always fall back on the "you don't have a clue" argument.

Ever heard "You must find God before God finds you" before?

I would like to educate you people. Ask me something and i will try to explain it

But what really suprised me was that people think that Jesus was a God. It totally shocked me.

[mdd4696]

God was created by the Priests and used to create concrete order among the masses.
The notion of God is inherently produced by our morality (the morality of slaves).

Nietzsche's explanation is very well articulated.

I would mod you up, if I could.

You comment is interesting because it emphasizes a very good and very positive aspect of religion: morality. As I mentioned above, I don't believe in God. However, I do believe that religion has caused people to do great things. (Admittedly, it has also caused barbaric things, but the point I'm trying to make is that organized religion has been beneficial to society, whether it is all lies or not)

[TheMexicanKingVII]

People interpret the bible differently. Not one sole person can state what is as for fact. That is why there are disagreements on the bible and what it says.

Jesus is god, but if you will. Another version of god. The human form in which could understand and feel and such like humans would. Think Inuyasha and Naraku. That could be the best way to understand it in a way.

God wants us to live the way we choose with the occasional blessing, I don't think god wanted people to always praise him and worship him. That isn't too much fun.

People interpret the bible differently. Not one sole person can state what is as for fact. That is why there are disagreements on the bible and what it says.

Jesus is god, but if you will. Another version of god. The human form in which could understand and feel and such like humans would. Think Inuyasha and Naraku. That could be the best way to understand it in a way.

God wants us to live the way we choose with the occasional blessing, I don't think god wanted people to always praise him and worship him. That isn't too much fun.

[Strider M]

Wow... Did you see what happend after you asked the Quesiton that's the Topic of this Thread?

Udder Cayaws (utter chaos)

So check it out.... If anyone has any other questions.... try to ask the ones that... have an answer.....

Cant think of any?.... Good!

[bigbird]

I've visited many different youth groups, went to bible camp 3 years in a row under the wing of a pastor who was a missionary for over 30 years, occasionally go to Sunday service and listen to sermons, and you Haik are the only who thinks differently from the views I've posted on this board. And now you're saying Jesus is not God? Surely, you can't think he's human. He was born from a virgin, walked on water, made blind people see, made paralytics walk, exorcised demons, healed the sick, made bread for thousands of people, led thousands of people, can see the future, willingly let himself suffer the most excruciating death while enduring insults from other people, and rose from the dead three days later. And then he descended into hell, and rose again to heaven to sit beside God and pass judgements on the people. And if you read Revelations, it is predicted he will break the scrolls and release the apocalypse onto mankind.

Like Mexican King said Jesus is a human manifestation of God.

[tunaman]

The notion of a God or some other higher power comes from the human desire for purpose and meaning in our lives. It is unsettling to think that we are all just bits of matter that randomly came together and interacted in a very specific manner. It is even more unsettling to think that what we know as conciousness and sentience, may not be any more significant than an interesting chemical reaction.

People seek a way to add permanence to their lives. The promise that there is something else out there, greater than ourselves, that exists beyond time... it's a very seductive proposition. It is, in large part, an ego booster.

^I agree with this 100% but i dont think religion is bad because it teaches the importance of family and morals. But then awgain I think people sometimes people get the wrong idea. I heard a story about a person who did all these big things but thought it was o.k. because they repented. This was a very religious person. I believe they got the wrong idea. I believe the purpose to repent is to reflect what you did wrong and not to do it again.

About the life beginning, I think that is a question that we can never answer. If I had to guess on the subject I would say that time is a big loop and it will never end and never began. Time just repeats.

Well that is my 2 cents. If anyone cares I grew up jewish.(Dont study it since i had my bar mitzvah)

[TheMexicanKingVII]

Jesus Loves homosexuals, that don't practice the acts of Homosexuality, in other words if you were or are homosexual but don't practice it. He loves you, if you constantly do it then your a sinner. As god said, its an abomination to have sex with the same sex. So if your truly wish to be forgiven and be accepted by god, you must not sin in such a way. There is such a thing of second chances only if you mean it.

Hopefully this makes sense.

This is all going pretty much off topic.

[TheMexicanKingVII]

IF we look at it from the People created god pov, as I said before. The bible in a sense is a book of morals on how people should live. The world has always been chaotic and violence. People don't want to live that way. People want to live in peace. God was created in order to control and try to make people 'good' to their ideals.

Though as we can see it's been a very bumpy road for the tale.

[Naruto Uzamaki]

this is not a question to be asked and it cannot be answered. asking this would be unright.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

IF we look at it from the People created god pov, as I said before. The bible in a sense is a book of morals on how people should live. The world has always been chaotic and violence. People don't want to live that way. People want to live in peace. God was created in order to control and try to make people 'good' to their ideals.

Though as we can see it's been a very bumpy road for the tale.
Are you sure people want peace? It seems that if that's what everyone really wanted, it would be achievable. What kind of peace do you mean? Surely not that of everyone. People want to feel safe, but that doesn't mean they care about other people's well being. If they did, there wouldn't be any problem, but people form groups and it's those groups that conflict with each other. It's just a thought.

Can you imagine creating a god? I personally don't understand where gods came from and other mystical creatures. Some of them, but not all of them. Could you really sit their with a group of people and think, "wow, we're a bunch of chaotic people, we should pretend that there is a god so that we can follow morals set by them" and then actually follow along with it. I don't think I could. I couldn't live a lie that I knew I made up. Maybe it didn't happen quite that way. I don't know.

[TheMexicanKingVII]

Well we have to remember the day and age. I can't say, but most people don't want to be raped or killed. PEople were warring with other countries just for the hell of it.

To tell you the truth, I don't know too much either.

[akuma no omoigakenai saku]

I don't think it would have happened that way. People would discuss unexplained phenomena and speculate about the cause, but those listening, or those that they told, would forget that it is speculation. This still happens today.

It would be like if a coworker's girlfriend left him and you speculated that there may have been another woman, and said to one other person "I wonder if there was another woman", then there is a chance that, by the end of the day, some other coworkers would tell you that they had heard it was another woman, simply because the "maybe" becomes a little less important with each telling.

It could also be that a tribal or spiritual leader was asked for an explanation and, fearing that his inability to answer would jeopardize his position as leader, consulted an "oracle" or cast some bones and made up an answer that would appease the tribe. They would trust their prophetic leader, and his story would become dogma.

They didn't get together and decide anything. These hypothetical people simply trusted someone that they had been raised to trust, their chieftain, king, shaman, whatever.

Those are just some hypothetical ways that different gods could be created. It isn't unreasonable.

[Haik]

I've visited many different youth groups, went to bible camp 3 years in a row under the wing of a pastor who was a missionary for over 30 years, occasionally go to Sunday service and listen to sermons, and you Haik are the only who thinks differently from the views I've posted on this board. And now you're saying Jesus is not God? Surely, you can't think he's human. He was born from a virgin, walked on water, made blind people see, made paralytics walk, exorcised demons, healed the sick, made bread for thousands of people, led thousands of people, can see the future, willingly let himself suffer the most excruciating death while enduring insults from other people, and rose from the dead three days later. And then he descended into hell, and rose again to heaven to sit beside God and pass judgements on the people. And if you read Revelations, it is predicted he will break the scrolls and release the apocalypse onto mankind.

Like Mexican King said Jesus is a human manifestation of God.

Like I said, you have to understand the Bible, if you don't understand it you can make wrong conclusions.

your telling:
He was born from a virgin, walked on water, made blind people see, made paralytics walk, exorcised demons, healed the sick, made bread for thousands of people, led thousands of people, can see the future, willingly let himself suffer the most excruciating death while enduring insults from other people, and rose from the dead three days later.

Do you really think Jesus healed people and made blind people see? You think Jesus had magic powers? Maybe you don't understand it. Actually you don't because this part is the most easy part to understand it and your getting it totally wrong. Excuse me for saying that but that's the truth.

Like I said the Bible is not a normal book, don't read it like a normal book. If you read it like a normal book you will think he has magical powers. But if you read it in a other way, maybe you'll understand the secrets of the Bible.
I'm not gona tell you what it means by making blind people see again, thats up to you to understand.

[Jikar Himmon]

Let me add something onto this: If you've never read the bible then I suggest that you do not argue about God and his creations.

Before I go any futher into my post, I'd like to make afew things clear. I do not have a problem with any other religion, and I do not mind peopl's opionons, I respect them, I agree to disagree if I do not like them. People aren't always going to agree with you, so why bother aruging.

Jesus is the son of God, for those who think he is God. He was sent down to earth to, a seed placed into Mary, by God. He came down and shared the word of God with the people. Jesus loves everybody, icluding homosexuals, and anything esle that some people may thing are 'wrong' and are 'against the bible'. The only thing he does not like is, when you commit an act that he does not like, but you can ask for forgiveness. Jesus isn't a scarey man, he loves us all, and forgives us for our sins. Well, that is what I believe, anyways.

Something esle to add, God/Jesus is real. If you've read the book of Revelations that you'd know. Everything in that book will come to be or already has come to be, all you have to do is understand it. I'd pull out example, but that'd be too long. Just read the book, and attend history class some more, and you'll begin to make comparisons, hopefully.

I ask that you do not give me negative feedback. I myself do not wish to dig up an argument, this is just a statement that I'd like to make. If you have something to disagreee with, then you can do so, but in a less mannerly way.

So, how was God to be? Think about that for a moment....you can think about it all you want to, but you won't get the answer, at least not from anything on earth. If we knew how God came to be, then why would he be a God? Why would we worship a spirit that was born of Man? If we knew how God was created, don't you think that we would be like God. That's the whole reason why he is our God. He's an awesome God.

As for the Bible, it's been here, ever since Jesus's disclipes started writing the books. And there is proof that it's possible. There's museums with scripts from Jesus's time that can be viewed by the public eye. There has been Cities from the bible that have been found in ruins, Just search it up, and learn and you'll see.

God is real. Jesus is real. The Bible is real.

And that is all from me, for now. I ask of you again, please do not be rude towards my comment, for I am not being rude to anyone esle.

[bigbird]

Like I said, you have to understand the Bible, if you don't understand it you can make wrong conclusions.

your telling:


Do you really think Jesus healed people and made blind people see? You think Jesus had magic powers? Maybe you don't understand it. Actually you don't because this part is the most easy part to understand it and your getting it totally wrong. Excuse me for saying that but that's the truth.

Like I said the Bible is not a normal book, don't read it like a normal book. If you read it like a normal book you will think he has magical powers. But if you read it in a other way, maybe you'll understand the secrets of the Bible.
I'm not gona tell you what it means by making blind people see again, thats up to you to understand.

I know the bible is not a normal book. It's hard to decide whether to take things literally or symbolically. But what's your take on the bible? Are you sayin that the people he healed were not physically sick or blind, but that sin has made them "sick" so he "healed" or rather cleansed them of sin so they're healthy again, and that "blind" people are those that have lost their way because they dont know the true path of life, so Jesus made them "see" again by showing that he is the Way of life?

And I don't believe Jesus had magical powers, that he was like another Tsunade from Naruto. I think that Jesus had 100% faith that he could heal those people, and so he was able to. All the amazing things he did was by faith.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

This is off topic but I believe that Jesus wasn't the Son of God, but the only person in humanity not to have the devil run through his veins.

This is why he was so amazing.

I'm a Muslim by the way. :)

Try and stay on topic and remember it's the philosophical forum, not the debating one. :P

[Haik]

For the people that say Jesus is God.
You can find in the Bible where they ask Jesus that question.
They ask him: "Are you God" and Jesus answeres "You say"

I hope you all can understand what he means by that...

[akuma no omoigakenai saku]

I tend not to read the bible, 'cause it burns me when I touch it, but I looked to see what others thought. One website cited these passages:

John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-4, and Isaiah 6:1-10

These are apparently the ones that have some info about this, so could one of the people that know the bible well check them for anything relevant.

I don't even think my family owns one.

[blacklusterseph004]

I am dumbstruck by Haik's comments, but I guess I'll leave the debate on that issue until I can find some Bible verses for him.

Are you sure people want peace? It seems that if that's what everyone really wanted, it would be achievable. What kind of peace do you mean? Surely not that of everyone. People want to feel safe, but that doesn't mean they care about other people's well being. If they did, there wouldn't be any problem, but people form groups and it's those groups that conflict with each other. It's just a thought.

Interestingly enough, if you are interested in Biblical prophecy, the desperation for peace in the world will be the means that the anti-christ uses to ascend to power. He will create a false peace, from a world where it is seemingly impossible. The world will love him for it, and that is how he gains influence.

On topic: the Bible doesn't explicitly state where God came from, or what his reasons were for creating us. It simply says (I'm summarising) that he always was and always will be. I suppose that us trying to understand his origins is like trying to conceive the numerical value of infinity. We are welcome to try, but I don't think we have the tools to understand yet.

[Kakashi_Love]

God came to be when mankind realized what pain and happiness was.

[Cthulhu-versailles]

Ahem let me tell you all a story when I was little I was raised as a stirct protesttant... go to church pray all the bullshit believe. When I was older I developed an opinon a mind.. at age 10 I started to doubt all the crap I was being force feed. by 13 I was a misogonist and 14 an atheist.

REligion has cause more bad then good in it's existance it is the reason people have killed each other and thought themselves superior.. slavery, war, genocide etc. has been justifeid under the pretense of religion.

Anyway Religion = seperate thing from "GOD" Religion didn't magically happen a bunch of dumbass humans slowly made up a bunch of stupid ass rules for a bunch of stupider humans to follow. Religion and God are not connected... because if there was a "GOD" it would not be a human being.

God= humans forming concepts to explain the unknown. Thatt's it that's all thats wat God and Gods were orignally for. ... Old tribe prays to thier God for grain to grow if it grows they rejoice if it doesn't they condemn themselves saying they desrver this bla blah. In reality "God" would have no bloody function in whether you crops grow or not it a bunch of things, nature, your care of them etc.

People who believe in God Now have simply been programmed to do so by theor elders, because belief is contrived from your immediate enviroment. Humans are pathetic vile weak creature who are fearful and paranoid litle putz. People need to believe thier is something... higher power being whatever watching over them so then can live thier lives and fell safe.

In short the belief in God is merely a well constructed human experiment that evolved based upon human weakness and has taken fruition expanding and growing via means of people in authoirty to contrive and fit into whatever scale or rules where neccessary for scoail order to be maintained. NO belief is independant this is fact we are all influenced by something. However some are persuaded one way while others remain on the other.

Bottom line I am not so weak to believe that I'm not alone on when i'm walking around and that thier is some supposed higher power'"""" watching me influencing things to either be great or shit. I don't believe that I'm gonna go anywhere when i'm dead I dont know wtf will happen but I don't give a Shit because I am still alive today. Not because of some magically, spiritual crap that is supposedly my purpose it's because of me MFO Me and me alone. That's reality you ain't be tended to, ain't nothin watching over you when you drive your care and don't crash.

GOD is as real as a comic book.. God is merely the embodyment of creativity of humanity nothing more nothing less.

....OHHHH ho let me guess I'm not spirtual Blah.....One question to all GOd believers are you very religious. If not ignore this if so

Doesn't it say something in the bible that if you repent for your sins you will be granted forgiveness etc etc. Ie killers always seem to find God... Pedia files turn to God asking why I was made a monster..

Lmfao... if you read the bible very delicately your going to hell, unless your a mormon, you have gone against the teaching... the bible has so many fudging absurd things it a hilarious read... almost as funny as watching full metal panic fumoffu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On that note ends my rant!!!
Ps: if you believe in God whatever i say won't do shit to change your mind, nor can you change mind RELIGION AND GOD ARE THE SINGLE MOST STALEMATE TOPIC IN EXISTANCES NO MATTER HOW GOOD ONE SIDE HAS OF AN ARGUMENT NEITHER WILL EVER SWAY!!!

PSS: believe in GOD if you want but I never will and you shouldn't give a *******

[akuma no omoigakenai saku]

by 13 I was a misogonist and 14 an atheist.


Did you mean to say agnostic at 13 and athiest at 14?

[Aldredian_Sahn]

GOD is as real as a comic book. ...
Comic books are real, I've seen them myself. :wink :P

[tootaa18]

thanks to guy that gave me negative rep just becuz i expressed my honest opinion. is that what you god teaches you? *scoffs*
look, you ignorant prick.... this IS a forum afterall... you should learn to respect people's opinion. even if then don't agree with you.

you had it coming dude...

ehh.... you are religious as I see.
go join the Jesus Christ FC.
people like you make me sick.

so if i said that you are a big jerk and a stupid fool you won`t be angry at my opinion because...

this IS a forum afterall...you should learn to respect people's opinion. even if then don't agree with you.

but you didn`t do that......you got angry when someone neg repped you

so why should we care about your feelings if you didn`t even try to care about other people`s feelings ?

[akuma no omoigakenai saku]

posted by Aldredian_Sahn
Comic books are real, I've seen them myself.

Honestly, the best point ever made. I'd rep you for it, but I can't.

Edit: BTW, nice monkey. :amuse

[Haik]

at age 10 I started to doubt all the crap I was being force feed. by 13 I was a misogonist and 14 an atheist.

so your saying that at the age of 10 you began to understand life? At the age of 13 you almost knew everything that there is to know about life and finally at the age of 14 you understood what life means.

Let me ask you a question. What is life for you my friend. After all you understand life from your 14th so this would be an easy question for you I think.

[akuma no omoigakenai saku]

Yeah Shika, how dare you develop an independent consciousness and begin to question those things that made no sense to you. For shame, Shika. Shame!

[tigerwoo]

god came to be because there was nothing. just a bunch of intelligent creatures in a pointless world. when you are a child you believe your parents are infallible, indestructable. as you grow you realise they are just people with desires and stuff like other people. and EW they get horny too!

so too is it with god among our species. we believed there was this great omnipotent force that explained everything. we even named it.

funny thing is, there's no way to prove either way, so there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO. why even bother? it's like you and your buddy discussing my face. you don't know and you never will.

people do it anyway tho. because of Dhukka. dhukka is basically the stress and disharmony of not knowing and not being in control and not being able to do anything about it. like when a plane drops from 50 000 feet onto your house and kills your family. there was nothing you could do. but you're going to flip anyway.

so keep talking about god, but remember to have fun and not let the lack of resolution get you down.

[Aldredian_Sahn]

god came to be because there was nothing. just a bunch of intelligent creatures in a pointless world. when you are a child you believe your parents are infallible, indestructable. as you grow you realise they are just people with desires and stuff like other people. and EW they get horny too!
*in the voice of uncle from Jakee Chan Cartoon* Das ist toooo funny! One side utterly believes that God came because there was nothing and that humans need something and the other side says the complete and utter opposite, that there was nothing and God created something. Where does the truth lie? *knocks everyone on the head twice with a butter stick*

[Gisaku Kimura]

God is an infinite, eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, being. He was not created, He has always been, and always will be.
(At least those are my beliefs)

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Once you die, you will have the abilty to relize that there is no begining and there is no end. Take the Geography idea of that line with the arrowheads on each end. When you creat those line, the is no begining in that line, and there will never be an end. Thats the way I believe the universe to be. Choose to join me, choose to humilate me. Its all your choice.

[refused!]

If you ask me, he came to be through belief.

[OtacontheOtaku]

Read my posts
here: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost...4&postcount=37
and
here: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost...1&postcount=38

There's your answer ^_^

[Aldredian_Sahn]

Read my posts
here: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost...4&postcount=37
and
here: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost...1&postcount=38

There's your answer ^_^
Sorry, I'm getting dead links here.

[Ame]

You either believe in him/her (Refering to whatever beliefs/denominations you may be inclined to) because:
1. Everyone else does...
2. You were raised that way...
3. You truely do want to seek him/her for everything...
4. You're afraid it's all true...

There is no proof that he/she existed... or proof that he/she didn't. Faith be blind or faith be unclouded, whatever gets you through the day people...Pass me a bottle of Jack Daniels and I'm good for a week... XD

[EternalHatred]

"How did god become who god is? I always wondered about this. There always has to be something that created something. So from my view point something created 'god'. There is a lot of stuff that makes me wonder. The bible has a lot of stories and so, but from my view point the Bible is just a book of morals and hope. If god does indeed exist then there is a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense."
If there has to be something that creates something else (science) then you might as well don't believe in the existence of God. (One or the other)
The bible DOES make sense. It makes sense to those who believes in the bible to be sense itself.

[n8dogg]

Time did not exist before the earth was created, and neither was the concept of creation. God was just... there. No one created him, and there was nothing else except him. After the billions of galaxies were made, and mankind was established, God then began to become more humanistic, ultimately leading to the creation of his son, Jesus.

:shrugs: It's a conclusion that I sorta came to myself. It's only one of the thousands of possibilities. All we have to do is pick a side, stick with it, and see what happens after we all die.

[Vicious ♥]

Just watch SpaceJam, the ending. and you will understand it lol

[TheMexicanKingVII]

So MJ is god?

[Peliqua]

Did you also suck GC cock when he said that and now worship him as a God to suck his cock every day?

What can i say, a moron stays a moron. Good luck with your life, I don't have time for idiots like you...

Sorry man, but you just got pwned. o_o

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Originally Posted by Haik
Did you also suck GC cock when he said that and now worship him as a God to suck his cock every day?

What can i say, a moron stays a moron. Good luck with your life, I don't have time for idiots like you...



I see if you cant respond to the statement that was posted you flame....Interesting and everything Uchiha Jun said made far more sense than some of the things posted...

[cygnus]

Frankly, I don't believe in god. Basically, I have hope that there's something else out there, but not something that could have created us because that doesn't make any more sense than the fact that we just ARE and that we were not created by a god, it just adds to the confusion!! But i have no idea how 'matter' appeared. Basically though, scientific (not scientoligist) beliefs could be proven true as soon as there is a way that the original piece of matter appeared so there is a higher possibility, logically, that science is true and the big bang created the Earth, not some God. The universe itself however, I have no idea, but I'm not going to give up and just take the easy route.

God is the conclusion to every problem that people cannot answer. A conclusion IS just a point where we can't be fucked thinking anymore after all. Residing in religious conformism just to give yourself hope, though, is stupid, accept it, we are here to mate with the opposite sex, reproduce and raise our young so that they can do the same thing, until our species dies out, THATS IT. So I say, if your god doesn't like sex, FUCK HIM. He shouldn't have given us that option if he didn't want us to. That's like putting old nukes in every car sold. "They could go off if they wanted to, but they shouldn't because I don't want them to, I'm giving them the choice though because I feel that if they then CHOOSE not to go off, it makes it a true decision and means they will truly believe in me". That is why we are here, I don't know HOW we got here but that is why we are here. If we had concluded that God created everything and that was the final answer before man spread out across the earth, we wouldn't have any idea about how anything works at all. We would have just accepted anything that didn't initially make sense and not worried about it. The fact that we ARE and that we can THINK is very strange. Life, as it were, doesn't really make sense. HOW can we feel, WHY are we here, these questions I can answer and science can answer, there has been a reason why everything else works, there's no reason to believe (this is just IMO of course) that the universe had to just be Gid went ZAP and that was it.

That aside though, the bible is a very good book, but so are the majority of religious books. Lots of good lessons to be learned. What I hate about religion in general though, is that YOUR beliefs should be YOUR beliefs. There shouldn't be groups of people, who, most of the time, have been raised to believe what they are told rather than finding their own truths...like Kenshin. Groups of people even fight over beliefs that shouldn't even concern anyone else. That is absolute crap.

[Shinobi No Kami]

Did you also suck GC cock when he said that and now worship him as a God to suck his cock every day?

What can i say, a moron stays a moron. Good luck with your life, I don't have time for idiots like you...
as expected from you... another quitter after being pwned in every way.
you're no fun!

walk away now... i have a TRUE life to live for, not fairy tales.
Best PWNage ever! I almost feel pity for Haik.

[Jones]

last time i checked god was a flaming bush in egypt and likes to talk to people passing by telling them to free their people.

[angtu]

all the discussion above prove to my conclusions: it takes more faith to reject God and everything God created came to prove his exsitance.

God, long in short, is where everything begins. You have to agree with me that there's a beginning and end. There will be one point when we have to say "this is it, it's the beginning". And it only makes sense if God is the beginning. He is the beginning and the end. We try to prove it wrong through science and logic. But if you go deep enough, you will see that there will be a point when science and logic can't explain it anymore. and that's when God is the only answer.

for example, can science tell me the orgin of the oof the universe? in the end you will come to a point when you just can't go deeper anymore and there's no more possible answer. The only way to trace back even further is through God. Remember, God created Science. He is beyond what his creation can ever do. If you agree with me that God is beyond his creation, then you can understand why we cannot fully understand everything that God can. his mind and power is beyond what humans are capable of.

Also, Bible never said that God hates science and science is wrong. It is extremely possible that God created Human through science. Keep in mind that Bible is written like thousands of years ago. If God told them all the scientific stuff people then wouldn't understand.

In the Bible it also said that sex is something God had blessed us with. Remember, everything he created has a purpose and is good in a way. It never said that he forbid sex. He bless us with sex and he also told us not to abuse it. The reasons of that are that it may give us disease like AIDS. also, if you are merry and you have sex with other people, what would your mate think? he said that to help us to keep our relationship straight and from disease.

Finally, I have to say that I can't force you to believe what I believe. As a christian, my job is too just tell you about God. weather you believe it or not I can't do a thing about it. Rest of it depends on yourself and how God is going to show himself to you and what he plans for you.

[Haik]

Sorry man, but you just got pwned. o_o

uhu sure...

I see if you cant respond to the statement that was posted you flame....Interesting and everything Uchiha Jun said made far more sense than some of the things posted...

for you, because you are blind...


Best PWNage ever! I almost feel pity for Haik.

don't feel pity for me, think about yourself...

[Jun]

ouch dude. that must hurt, i know... but you have to accept facts sometimes. =\
hey, but if you're not satisfied, you can go that other thread about god.
it's gettin' pretty interesting. :amuse
at least that other guy knows what's he's talking about.

[OtacontheOtaku]

I'll give you a nice profile of the Yaweh (Yahweh, YWH) of the Old Testament and Torah's bible.

Alot of people are never told where he comes from, because it completely negates the entire Jewish religion, as well as almost all Christian's foundations, which is of course the remainder is negated by the source of the Jesus myth.

Before I get started, I just wanna state that all you simple-minded people who immediately defer any kind of history as "devil-work" need to promptly shoot themselves in the head or kindly ignore this post.

Anywho, the whole source of the Yaweh legend comes from the early mixture of Hittites and Hebrews. It's not very widely known that the Hebrews actually had a whole pantheon of Gods before Yaweh all of a sudden decleares himself as their one and only God. I should note that most scholars agree that the name "Yaweh" was added later by biblical patriarchs.

To continue, Yahweh makes a very unusual statement in the first commandment that goes "You shall have no other Gods before me." Here's the little extra bit that has frusterated biblical scholars, the "before me" aspect is seemingly unnecessary if there's just one God. Why not just leave it at "You shall have other Gods"? This little extra bit clearly demonstrates that there are in fact other Gods, just that "Yaweh" is above all of them. So why this little extra? Well, since the polytheist Hebrews had mixed with the polytheist Hittites you had a little stumbling block here, especially since the leader of the Hebrew pantheon at the time was the God Enlil, an ancient God that goes all the way back to the world's first civilizations in Sumeria, and the Hittite's head God Adad and his wife Asherah (also known as Ishtar) who also go back to ancient Sumeria.

So why is Adad Yaweh? Well, in the ancient accounts of Abraham and Isaac, from which the story is derived, Abraham is told by Enlil to kill his son Isaac as a symbol of his faith, but Adad sends a messenger down to tell him to not kill him as he does not require sacrifice from his followers, and what do you know, the Hittites and Hebrews both come from Abraham's decendentry (Abraham and Isaac both have different names, but this story has been found in Sumerian, Semitic, and Akadian so it's agreed upon that the story of Abraham and Isaac came from this account). So anyway, this story shows Adad clearly trying to gain influence over Enlil by assisting the human in his plight. So in order to completely assert dominence over Enlil, Adad decides to become the God of the Hebrews. Even more pounding this point home is how when Moses came down from Mt. Sinai with the Ten Commadments (Which were actually closer to 30 or 40 according to scholars, many of which mending the way women were being treated, cut by the biblical patriarchs to assert male dominence) Moses saw the people worshipping a golden calf, though it could have been a golden bull, which were symbols of the old God Enlil. Oh yeah, almost forgot, Moses' mother was Hittite and his father was Hebrew. Before the name Yahweh is used, the God of the Hebrews is reffered to as "El-Shaddai" and is a terrible and vindictive God. The Hebrew root "shadad" from which it is believed to be derived means "to overpower," "to treat with violence," or "to lay waste." These meanings give the deity a fearful character, that of devastator or destroyer. It is partly for this reason that the god of the Hebrews is known as an uncompromising and vindictive god. Shaddai may also be connected linguistically to the Assyrian word "shadu" or mountain. In actuality, both of these meanings can be applied to the Hebrew God El Shaddai, for he is none other than the God of Lightning and Thunder of the Hittites, a northwesterm version of the Sumerian god Ishkur and the Semitic Adad. He was the Anatolian mountain god and is often depicted with thunderbolts in hand (hence the origin of Zeus of the Greeks as well)

As a final point to this arguement, the wife of Adad, Asherah was also a HUGE symbol at the time, known as the "Mother Goddess" she was known as a great healing God and was a huge influence within the Hebrew pantheon and it is been put forth she was probobly on Sinai with Adad and contributed to the original commandments.

Well, there is the origin of the God of the Hebrews - referred to as Yaweh.

Source:
-The Reasearch of R.A. Boulay
-Myths of the Ancient World

[Zhongda]

ike what? politics? your mom?
what argument is good enough to fight against stubborness?
I cannot argument with clowns like Haik... I only debate with good debaters. With proof. Scientific method.
Stuff like that.
Give me one redundant, obvious proof that god existed. 1. just 1.
I beg of you. If you know more than that prick.... the mike is all yours buddy.

we're in the land of the free... afterall....... and the HOMmmeee offff theeee.... BRAAAAVVVVEEEEE!!!
i understand that you want to base all your beleifs on facts and scientific evidence, i cannot change the way you think.
most people who believe in god were taught to do that at a young age.
wanting proof for the existance of god is all around you depending on how you look at it.
if you believe in the big bang.. (which is impposible) fine.
if not, theres only god left.
its strange.. i believe in god.. and i dont know how people who don't live their life!

eg.
the reasons why i won't steal, murder and rape is religion first and then the law.
with only the law binding me.. i can steal, rape, murder and do anythig i wanted to just aslong i can gt away with it.
with religion there is no loop hole.. knowing that god is watching 24/7
its somthing more than your concience..

God is up there, or else we wouldn't be down here in this 'place'.
i said it b4 here.. two things my dad said you can never convience people at.
"their political and religiouse beleifs"

[ujih]

for me god is an ordinary god.......he is not in heaven....he is just in our world.....because we the people are the believing that there is a god...BUT,,,,did somebody had seen god?????.........

[cygnus]

God is god because we can't fulfil our curiosity any other way. We don't know how the hell we got here so we just said it was something out of our league. Like when your working and someone asks you a question and you don't want to talk to them so you palm them off to a higher manager or whatever.

The bible is like a reference book to how people should act, it's full of very good points but I don't think it is literal in the slightest.

[Sands]

"god" is different for other cultures. people believe in something all together and it creates some kind of order. the bible is considered a holy tesment but was written and later changed by man. therefore it is not god's laws but our own. larger religions in the past would take symbols from smaller religions and change them for the worse. for example: posedion's trident became the devil's pitchfork, the wise crone's hat became that of a witch, the pagan symbol of the godess of love and fertality became devil worship. many of the things we see today were taken from religions symbols that have been changed. to different people god means something else. there is no proof that god exists but people feel more secure if they think it does.

[Peliqua]

Lol. Haik, man, just let it go. You cant pull yourself back up after that from jun. XD
Im just laughing so hard right now.

[sasukecopyninja]

Ok, this is my opinion dont bash or neg rep me ofr it... personaly i beleive he didn't, because according to the bible God says everything si created from something so therefore saying something had to create goda nd taht something had to be created by that something... and it goes on for ever meaning there was no begging, and tah mean there will be no end meaning theres no existance... yes i know this hits a road block and ends my theory but really, it makes sense but to that point :P

[skunkworks]

I'll give you a nice profile of the Yaweh (Yahweh, YWH) of the Old Testament and Torah's bible.

Alot of people are never told where he comes from, because it completely negates the entire Jewish religion, as well as almost all Christian's foundations, which is of course the remainder is negated by the source of the Jesus myth.

Before I get started, I just wanna state that all you simple-minded people who immediately defer any kind of history as "devil-work" need to promptly shoot themselves in the head or kindly ignore this post.

Anywho, the whole source of the Yaweh legend comes from the early mixture of Hittites and Hebrews. It's not very widely known that the Hebrews actually had a whole pantheon of Gods before Yaweh all of a sudden decleares himself as their one and only God. I should note that most scholars agree that the name "Yaweh" was added later by biblical patriarchs.

To continue, Yahweh makes a very unusual statement in the first commandment that goes "You shall have no other Gods before me." Here's the little extra bit that has frusterated biblical scholars, the "before me" aspect is seemingly unnecessary if there's just one God. Why not just leave it at "You shall have other Gods"? This little extra bit clearly demonstrates that there are in fact other Gods, just that "Yaweh" is above all of them. So why this little extra? Well, since the polytheist Hebrews had mixed with the polytheist Hittites you had a little stumbling block here, especially since the leader of the Hebrew pantheon at the time was the God Enlil, an ancient God that goes all the way back to the world's first civilizations in Sumeria, and the Hittite's head God Adad and his wife Asherah (also known as Ishtar) who also go back to ancient Sumeria.

So why is Adad Yaweh? Well, in the ancient accounts of Abraham and Isaac, from which the story is derived, Abraham is told by Enlil to kill his son Isaac as a symbol of his faith, but Adad sends a messenger down to tell him to not kill him as he does not require sacrifice from his followers, and what do you know, the Hittites and Hebrews both come from Abraham's decendentry (Abraham and Isaac both have different names, but this story has been found in Sumerian, Semitic, and Akadian so it's agreed upon that the story of Abraham and Isaac came from this account). So anyway, this story shows Adad clearly trying to gain influence over Enlil by assisting the human in his plight. So in order to completely assert dominence over Enlil, Adad decides to become the God of the Hebrews. Even more pounding this point home is how when Moses came down from Mt. Sinai with the Ten Commadments (Which were actually closer to 30 or 40 according to scholars, many of which mending the way women were being treated, cut by the biblical patriarchs to assert male dominence) Moses saw the people worshipping a golden calf, though it could have been a golden bull, which were symbols of the old God Enlil. Oh yeah, almost forgot, Moses' mother was Hittite and his father was Hebrew. Before the name Yahweh is used, the God of the Hebrews is reffered to as "El-Shaddai" and is a terrible and vindictive God. The Hebrew root "shadad" from which it is believed to be derived means "to overpower," "to treat with violence," or "to lay waste." These meanings give the deity a fearful character, that of devastator or destroyer. It is partly for this reason that the god of the Hebrews is known as an uncompromising and vindictive god. Shaddai may also be connected linguistically to the Assyrian word "shadu" or mountain. In actuality, both of these meanings can be applied to the Hebrew God El Shaddai, for he is none other than the God of Lightning and Thunder of the Hittites, a northwesterm version of the Sumerian god Ishkur and the Semitic Adad. He was the Anatolian mountain god and is often depicted with thunderbolts in hand (hence the origin of Zeus of the Greeks as well)

As a final point to this arguement, the wife of Adad, Asherah was also a HUGE symbol at the time, known as the "Mother Goddess" she was known as a great healing God and was a huge influence within the Hebrew pantheon and it is been put forth she was probobly on Sinai with Adad and contributed to the original commandments.

Well, there is the origin of the God of the Hebrews - referred to as Yaweh.

Source:
-The Reasearch of R.A. Boulay
-Myths of the Ancient World

:huh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

[Rui]

You shouldn't wonder about things like this. You'll get crazy. I think God was there before. I think we are created because God wanted to test if we will worship and obey him. Thats why we are given the freedom of choice. Thats why the devil was created, to test us if we will obey him.

[omni1337]

There is no point in wondering, the mind sets a boundary on itself,if it didn't set a boundary, people would have figured ot the meaning of life by now. Even if you come up with an idea how can you tell if its true or not, there is no proof or evidence.
Existence is impossible to explain.

[rimpelcut]

he just excists. according to this claim it would be very probable that the universe simply exists without a god.

[rimpelcut]

i understand that you want to base all your beleifs on facts and scientific evidence, i cannot change the way you think.
most people who believe in god were taught to do that at a young age.
wanting proof for the existance of god is all around you depending on how you look at it.
if you believe in the big bang.. (which is impposible) fine.
if not, theres only god left.
its strange.. i believe in god.. and i dont know how people who don't live their life!

eg.
the reasons why i won't steal, murder and rape is religion first and then the law.
with only the law binding me.. i can steal, rape, murder and do anythig i wanted to just aslong i can gt away with it.
with religion there is no loop hole.. knowing that god is watching 24/7
its somthing more than your concience..

God is up there, or else we wouldn't be down here in this 'place'.
i said it b4 here.. two things my dad said you can never convience people at.
"their political and religiouse beleifs"

from what you are saying I conclude that you cannot control your own self and don't understand moral, for your self.
Just imagine you beeing a person that only cares to feel healthy without emotion of disire, lust, hate. That wants to live and experience life. Someone who knows what he is doing. Sum it all up and you have responsability.
Just admit people, you need a blanket with you to protect you from the scary thingys. It makes you feel comfortable, secure, not in the dark. That is called religion in your case but for others it may be opinions, ego, doing evil etc. Why do people try to think up what they are going to say/ do ahead of time? They think they become prepared. But they are not learning anything because they already had the informations.

[Vegitto-kun]

I personnaly am a Half-Atheist, I Don't follow the church but I do think there might be something, I don't know if there is indeed a entity that made us, But I still think there might be and if it shows itself when I die, I will then believe.

[rimpelcut]

so your saying that at the age of 10 you began to understand life? At the age of 13 you almost knew everything that there is to know about life and finally at the age of 14 you understood what life means.

Let me ask you a question. What is life for you my friend. After all you understand life from your 14th so this would be an easy question for you I think.

The answer to life is to live. live and all will be fine in the world. just think about whatever and you know it be true.
Now as far as it goes that you have to read the bible correctly: people please understand that what you think of the bible is not what the author might have meant, it might not be what the literal text implies, it might not be what the priest says it means. For example when I read the bible I understood that it implied that you have to life, discern and together with more things, that nature/motion/luck/destiny is god and is defined by god.
i'm not reliqious.
A crazy person and a reliqious person do not deffir from eachothers way of thinking. The result of this misconduct is living in your own little world.

[neko-sennin]

In the beginning, there was something.

But no one knoweth what it was, yet, though no one knoweth what it was, it is said to have been good.

Very, very good.

Whatever it was, it was so good, the Ancient Gods didst fight and kill the Titans over it, though no one knoweth from whence the Titans came.

It was damn good...

And so it came to pass that the world was formed by the pipe-dreams of the Ancient Gods; all of Reality was a figment of their imaginations.

And they didst have a bad trip, a very, very bad trip...

The Ancient Gods didst decide to have parties such as this all the time, which caused many a strange and disturbing thing to happen in the reality of the mortal world.

But as time wore on, the Ancient Gods didst grow old and become flabby and weak, and Quetzalcoatl, the Great Aztec God of the Billowing White Wings didst finally return unto the land of Mexica, as a sign of the end of the reign of the Western Gods.

On that fateful day, tired of the reign of the Ancient Gods, some angry, uptight fool didst think up an upstart bitch called Jehovah, who sprang forth from his forehead armed with Guillotines, crosses and kerosene to overthrow the Ancient Gods.

Through persecution, book-burning, witch-hunting, and bloody crusades Jehovah didst depose the Ancient Gods, and didst place them in an old folks home.

And Jehovah didst start a worldwide propaganda campaign and didst claim credit for the world which the Ancient Gods’ bad trip didst create.

After that, Jehovah didst spread ignorance, intolerance and uptightness, and didst take all the fun out of religion; there were no more orgies, no more sacrifices, and no more strange and disturbing quests for great heroes.

And for two thousand years didst Jehovah campaign to destroy all other views but his own, save for some who didst continue to resist his will...

(Scoot 1:1-4; 12-14; 16-22)

...And that's about how it happened. :D

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/scoot_the_koan/maximum_sig_03.jpg

[rimpelcut]

sweeet

---------------------

[neko-sennin]

sweeet

---------------------

[shameless plug]There's more. That was just an excerpt from the Book of Hondo. I've been posting it in the Fanworks/Fanfic section. It's not really a fanfic of anything, but I got Ronin's permission to post it anyway.[/shameless plug]

Seriously, though, it's really a metaphysical version of the chicken vs the egg.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/scoot_the_koan/maximum_sig_03.jpg

[rimpelcut]

ow you mean that it is like the philosophy of chicken and egg? only now about god?
i'm gonna find this book of religion in the fan area brb, excuse me it had to come out.

[Vicious ♥]

I'm a Christian, and while it's alright with me, just as a fair warning, there may be some people who will just bash on you for this. Just a warning.

Anyways, back to the point. No, I don't believe God was created or decreated in the Big Bang. He has always been. Time is actually our perception of things. It is slower for some people, and quicker for others. And there may be some truth to people saying that time goes quicker if you do something you enjoy.

Say God was created in the Big Bang. (while I don't believe it is absolute, I believe it to be near-absolute, simply because some of the things foretold to happen are symbolical, instead of literal. Other than that, yes, I do believe it is absolute.) As the Bible tells us, God created everything. Now, if God were to be created by the Big Bang, who created the Big Bang? Perhaps it simply deconstructed the entity we call 'God', and reassembled him in a different plane of existence. Hmmm, sort of like he was paving the way for us by spending time in this plane of existence, then moving on after it has been perfected.

If science, which must advance rather quickly, based on the rate it's been going, can unravel the mystery of God this quickly, what point is there in having a God? God, Jesus, Jehovah, whatever you want to call him. He is all-powerful, and while it must pain him to do so, he needs to separate himself from us, in order to preserve order, and to sort of remind us who's boss. If we start touting superiority, we end up placing ourselves on the pedestal of 'God.'

Next, I don't believe what you say is correct, MexicanKing. First off, when we go back into the Bible, when God did interfere, it was for our good. Or rather, Israel's good, but that's beside the point.

Yet each time he helped us, we immediately turned back to our idols and sins. Each and every time. With the exception of three people, just three people, there is no one who has not sinned. What point would there be as teh Earth continued to drown itself in sin? Would you continue to help them? And please, don't lie to yourself. Answer honestly. If for hundreds, nay, thousands of years, your chosen people, who you had made promises to, who you had borne out of slavery, and given unto a Promised Land, would you continue to perform miracles to make their lives easier as they forsake you for idols of gold, and bronze, and wood? As they turn to the false gods of their own enemies? Would you?

And then, in the greatest act of love ever witnessed in this world, He sent his one and only Son to die on the cross! All this so that whosoever loved him may be freed from the shackles of sin, so that whoever believed in him, and accepted Christ as their eternal saviour, would not only be saved from spiritual death and eternal damnation, but would have eternal life, free from all sin.

While the "I am who I am" may have confused some of you, it's very clear to me. In saying this, God shows that he doesn't need a fancy name, a strange symbol, or a recognizable appearance to make himself known. He shows that he should be recognizable simply because he is God, and not because he touts a name that is to be proclaimed across the land. (Though in all honesty, his name should be proclaimed anyway. Should've been, I should say) He sets himself apart from the earthly deities, and shows that He is the only God, if only people would accept him.

Aliens? While I believe there are aliens, it is a possibility that God did not create them as he did us. While there are no doubt intelligent life-forms out there, dogs are intelligent. Mice are intelligent. Hell, even insects and worms are intelligent to some degree. Just because there are aliens, does not mean that we are not his Chosen people, as is taught by the scriptures.

However, none of these species have been chosen as God's people. We have.

Other planets? AS part of His grand design. If we could even hope to see into God's mind(or should it be called a mind?), there would be some purpose.

We are taught that everything that happens in our lives, everything that we do or think is already planned out by God, and that it is all for a greater purpose. Who then, can argue that the planets exist for no purpose, if even the little lie you made to your mother back in the first grade may have some purpose?

God has always been, and always will be. I believe he is the center of existence, and the only one to exist on all the fields that we call dimensions. He controls time and space, and can bend the very laws of nature. There is no question of how he came to be, for he always has been.

And I realize that I've deviated from the original subject a bit. But I just felt compelled to type that.

I realize that some people will just think that I'm some fool who doesn't know what he's doing. But the fact is, I know full well what I'm typing. And if this influences any of you, go to the bookstore or library, and crack open the Bible.

Please.

I hope I haven't taken up too much time of your busy lives to read this...ehehe...:sweatdrop


damn, thats a long piece :blink

[rimpelcut]

yeah it is and still no conclusions.

[forever]

"How did god become who god is?"
This is what you asked. Well, I have an answer.

"The bible has a lot of stories and so, but from my view point the Bible is just a book of morals and hope."
If you read the bible, Genesis1, the first chapter, it doesn't prove there is a God, it assumes. Yes, the bible has morals and hope, but it has more than that. Answers.

"If god does indeed exist then there is a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense."

God (like space) has neither beginning nor end. he created time and subjected man to it and because we are subject to time, logic demands that everything must have a beginning and an end. However, God dwells outside of time, in "eternity". Again, you can prove this by studying Bible prophecy, and seeing how God knws the beginning of time form the end.

"He created us and yet doesn't save us from such awful death in which most of us probably don't deserve. In a way god really doesn't make too much sense, he creates us with free will and wants peace for earth but doesn't interfere as much as he 'use' too in the bible."

If you read Genesis, the beginning chapters explain the creation. Further, it shows Adam and Eve and the Fall of Men. When Satan tempted them and told them a lie (He's the father of sin), Adam disobeyed God. Therefore, bringing sin into the world. And the punishment of sin is death. By this I mean that one day we will have to die.

Bible: Basic Information Before Leaving Earth
Earth is just temporary and is to prepare us for eternity. It doesn't matter who you are-Tom Cruise, the Queen, you or me-we will all be leaving earth one day. If you have the right informationabout eternity and do something with it, you will end up in the right destination; but if you have the wrong information, you will end up in the wrong destination.

The meaning of 'sin' is 'missing the mark' in Greek.

Romans 3:19-20 says, " 19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

The Law must be very important: it will not only stop people's mouths (keep them from attempting to justify themselves), but will show them that they are guilty before God.And it is the law that brings the knowledge of sin. So to understand what sin is, we need to know what this law is.

Psalm 19:7 informs us, " 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul. The statutes of the LORD are trustworthy, making wise the simple."
This Law is perfect and converts the soul. What is this Law?
First John 3:4 says, " 4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness."
Breaking the Law is sin, period.
Lastly, Romans 7:7 says, " 7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
If the Law says, "Thou shalt not covet," what exactly is the Law? "Thou shalt not covet" is the Tenth Commandments. Therefore to know what sin is, we must know what the Ten Commandments are. The Ten Commandments ca be found in both Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, so they must be very important if they are stated twice by God in His holy Scriptures.

"He created us and yet doesn't save us from such awful death in which most of us probably don't deserve."
Human suffering proves that there is a God. It certifies that the Bible is true. Scripture says that if a nation obeys God, it will have long life, health and prosperity. When a nation is given to lawlessness-violence sexual immortality, etc., God removes His blessings so that it will seek Him. Abraham Lincoln knew and proclaimed this. Check out Deuteronomy chapter 28 and you will see why the U.S. has so much cancer and so many natural disasters.

About the Version 1: "the Big Bang"
Try and think of any explosion that has produced order. Does a terrorist bomb create harmony? Big Bangs cause chaos. How could a big bang roduce a rose, apple trees, fish, sunsets, the seasons, humming birds, polar bears--thousand of birda and animals, each with it's own eyes, nose and mouth?
Here's an interesting experiment: Empty your garbage of every piece of metal, wood, paint rubber and plastic. Make sure there is nothing there. Then wait for ten years and see if a Mercedes evolves. I'm serious. Try it. If it doesn't appear, leave it for 20 years. If that doesn't work, try it for 100 years. then try leaving it for 10,000 years. Hard to believe? Then here's what will produce the necessary blind faith to make the evolutionary process believable: Leave it for 250 million years.

There's a Problem.
If the Bible is God's Word, you have a big problem. It maintains that God has set aside a Day in which He will judge the world in righteousness. The standard with which he will judge you is the Ten Commandments. Let's see if you have broken any of them:
1. Is God first in your life? Do you love Him with all your heart, mind, soul and strength?
2. Have you made a God in your own image-to suit yourself?
3. Have you ever used God's holy name in vain (Substituting it for a four lettered filth word to express disgust such as JC or GD)?
4. Have you kept the Sabbath holy?
5. Have you always honored your parents implicitly?
6. Have you hated anyone? Then the Bible says you are a murderer.
7. Have you ever lusted for another person in your heart? The Bible warns, "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart."
8. Have you ever stolen something (irrespective of its value)? Then you are a thief.
9. If you have told a lie (including white lies), then you are a liar, and cannot enter the Kingdom of God (Heaven).
10. Have you ever desired something that belonged to someone else? Then you have broken the Tenth Commandment.
On Judgment Day you will be found guilty, and end up in Hell forever...something God DOESN'T want to happen.

The Bible says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all"-James 2:10
If we have broken even one of the Ten Commandments, it is as if we have broken all of them. It is a tough standard to follow. So, therefore, Adolph Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Billy Graham, Mother Teresa, you, and I would all be probably guilty. That would put all of us in an eternal world of hurt, unless God provided a way to remove those sins that we have committed.
Numbers 32:23 warns, " 23 "But if you fail to do this, you will be sinning against the LORD; and you may be sure that your sin will find you out.
We may try to hide our sin with good works every now and then, but our sin will surely find us out when we stand before the Throne of Almighty God one day.

We are not doomed. There is hope! And that hope is in the Son of God and in His blood.

Each of us stand guilty of breaking God's Law, but because Jesus paid our fine on the Cross 2,000 years ago, God will forgive us on the grounds of His suffereing death-"God commended His love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Don't let evolutionists make monkeys out of you. You are a GREAT VALUE to God. Through the Cross., He has revealed His great love for us. Then He rose from the dead, and defeated death.

If you repent, and trust in the Saviour, God will grant you everlasting life. Pray something like this now: "Dear God, I have broken Your Law. Please forgive me. I put my trust in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. I will read the Bible daily and obey what I read. In Jesus' Name. Amen."
Read John 14:21.

The Bible has all the answers and proofs. Read it, study it, analyze it.
A challenge: read the bible everyday, and pray everyday and go to a church every Sabbath. (Sunday). And pretend that everything you read is true. God, Jesus, everything. Do this for a year, and I guarentee that you'll find answers. And it'll prove God true. If I am wrong, you disproved the world. Am I right?

Anyway, got to get ready for class. Have a good day.^_^

[omni1337]

like what? politics? your mom?
what argument is good enough to fight against stubborness?
I cannot argument with clowns like Haik... I only debate with good debaters. With proof. Scientific method.
Stuff like that.
Give me one redundant, obvious proof that god existed. 1. just 1.
I beg of you. If you know more than that prick.... the mike is all yours buddy.

we're in the land of the free... afterall....... and the HOMmmeee offff theeee.... BRAAAAVVVVEEEEE!!!



Give me proof that God doesn't exist.
Other than he is not visible and he is made up, which are two completely idiotic responses.

[rimpelcut]

"How did god become who god is?"
This is what you asked. Well, I have an answer.

"The bible has a lot of stories and so, but from my view point the Bible is just a book of morals and hope."
If you read the bible, Genesis1, the first chapter, it doesn't prove there is a God, it assumes. Yes, the bible has morals and hope, but it has more than that. Answers.

"If god does indeed exist then there is a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense."

God (like space) has neither beginning nor end. he created time and subjected man to it and because we are subject to time, logic demands that everything must have a beginning and an end. However, God dwells outside of time, in "eternity". Again, you can prove this by studying Bible prophecy, and seeing how God knws the beginning of time form the end.

"_^
That is where the bible is wrong, there are no beginnings and no ends because the end is the beginning. What you wrote is confusing me. Are you saying that lets say the universe has a beginning and an end or just man?
are saying that man dies after some time and god is eternal?
Space is the universe and for god to have neither a beginning or a end he has to be a part of space. If god is made up of the things that reality is made up of he has to be a part of it. He is all mighty so the only way for him to be like that is if he is the universe.

Maybe because we see only beginnings and ends we should think logically and see that for something to come forth you have to have a creator. Since in the end there cant come something out of nothing in the absence of a creator(who is something) the logical conclusion is that there is only existence.
Therefore life is eternal.

pleacce explain this bible philosophy logically.

[rimpelcut]

Give me proof that God doesn't exist.
Other than he is not visible and he is made up, which are two completely idiotic responses.

Give me proof that he does exist except that some profet said so whitch is complete stupid.
Really no disrespect, please tell me what you have seen in your holy book.

[Razgriez]

If we are in a sense the only life form out there ,what is the use of other planets? To protect earth from comets and meteors. If were not too die from such things why were they created? Why are there stars? To guide us?
Well the planets are there because thats how they were formed when the solar system formed. As to why they are there its because solar dust gathered to form the planet and it grew as it gathered dust and settled into a planet.

The stars are just like our star or sun. It has the same purpose as our sun.

How about aliens, if they indeed exist why? Could they be angels? I doubt it. Why are there aliens? If were the sole beings of the universe created by god then what need is it for them too be? In the bible it said something about a burning chariot coming from the sky.
A burning chariot can be a comet as well. If you think of aliens as angels then your a lunatic and the bible is full of crap. The second aliens are confirmed to exist its going to make a lot of people rethink their religion because in religion we are the sole beings in the universe... -_-

If god exist does he control everything? He created us and yet doesn't save us from such awful death in which most of us probably don't deserve.
Yeah, if you think about it. God has the power to save us from a lot of pain but he doesnt do anything? Only reason why I think he would do this is to let us grow independantly and become strong and not have to rely on him.

I can't understand how did god become too be. " I am what I am." What kind of crock of shit is this? I understand if there is a 'god' I will never be able to comprehend anything that he does.
Of course you'll never comprehend anything that he does because you already tell yourself that. Everything is explainable and understandable regardless of how confusing it may be.

So I pose this question, How do you feel god came too be? Why and how?
I think god is the creation of man's will for hope, happiness, and purpose in such a large universe. If you look at where we are in the universe we are on a small planet revolving around an middle aged star on the edge of our galaxy which is located in somewhere in a galaxy cluster which consists of millions of other galaxies and theres millions of galaxy clusters...

To think we are the center of the universe and that all life and everything came to be from where we are is wishful thinking. Our galaxy has been around far longer then our solar system and the universe has been around far longer then our galaxy. We werent the first things to exist and quite possibly other intelligent life forms have existed before us.

Pondering of such useless questions will get you nowhere in life.

[GOD'S BITCH]

God is either 2 things. A figure of imagination created by man in order to set morals and order for society. Or there really is this superior being. However, over the course of hundreds of years man have changed the view or image of god in order to fit their needs. For example, the Catholic Church and the selling of indulgences. What BS!.

[Razgriez]

Give me proof that God doesn't exist.
Other than he is not visible and he is made up, which are two completely idiotic responses.
How about you prove that god does exist without using "faith" or hes "incomprehensable".

In order to prove that god does not exist you gotta search for facts that he does exist and the current information telling me he is real are a bunch of people who are all crazy about him and some damn book!

About all the stories in the bible have no evidence of actually happening and Genesis is the biggest load of bullshit there is when science has proven the Earth is far younger then the Galaxy and the Universe is far older and has been around before even our Solar System has existed.