Korea, Japan Will Help Create EU-Style Asian Union

[Le Male]

Korea, Japan Will Help Create EU-Style Asian Union


Guy Sorman
By Michael Ha
Staff Reporter

A leading futurist and a global advisor to President Lee Myung-bak sees a brave new world on the horizon. In his vision for a new economic paradigm, he sees a league of Asian nations united by a common economic market and a common currency, much in the mold of the European Union.

French professor and author Guy Sorman says this vision is not just pie in the sky. What's more, he predicts Korea and Japan, brought together by common economic interest, will spearhead this grand effort.
``If I were to make a guess or a bet, I am quite sure that sooner or later, you will have, between Japan and South Korea, a kind of a union, like in Europe ― with a common currency," Sorman said.

Asian Economic Union

In an interview with The Korea Times this month, he envisioned an ``Asian Union" that starts with Korea and Japan that would grow to include surrounding nations. He acknowledged it may not be easy for the two sides to come together to work on a common economic system. There are still deep-seated hostilities. The recent uproar over Dokdo islets in the East Sea is just another example of how quickly the Korea-Japan relations can sour.

But even in Europe, there were animosities between nations and creating a union of European nations indeed seemed like a long shot, Sorman noted. He said nations working together to build a union helped them look toward a common future. European nations built the EU not because of their history but despite it, according to Sorman.
"If France and Germany were able to do that, after 1000 years of war, Korea and Japan could do it too," he said. ``If you look at Europe, this is all part of burying our hostile past."

Burying the Past, Looking for Common Future

``The purpose of this kind of an economic union is to bury the past and to demonstrate to people that you now have a common interest. Nowadays, young people in France and Germany can hardly understand why their two nations went to war," Sorman explained.

``This can be done in Asia, too. I think the process should start between Korea and Japan, and then other nations in the region, maybe China in the future, the Philippines, maybe Indonesia. One day it could incorporate Taiwan as well. They may all become interested."

When the European Union first got underway, Sorman said, ``It started basically between France and Germany. That formed the core of the alliance. Then Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, they all joined the process. So someone has to start."

The engine for this kind of Asian Union can only be Korea and Japan, he said. `` I do think that in the future, you will have a much stronger reconciliation between South Korea and Japan. Both governments should start working on this. It would be quite a dramatic and impressive gesture when the Korean President and the Japanese Prime Minister say, `Okay let's build an economic union.' It will make history. And it will make the region much safer and more prosperous in the future."

Adding Flexibility to Labor Market

There is another economic issue Korea must tackle in order to become a truly global economy: its rigid labor market. Sorman argued that the Korean government should address the labor market inflexibility and the problem of contract and non-contract workers.
``One thing that must be done is the reform of the labor market and add more flexibility," he said.
``A major problem in South Korea is that many foreign companies do not invest in South Korea. Why? There are two reasons. First, because there are still heavy regulations. Second, there is no labor flexibility," Sorman argued.

``The trade unions are very strong. Foreign companies are not very attracted to the Korean labor market because after all, if I am building a factory, why not build it in countries with more flexibility in the labor market? And then I can recruit people because I can fire people. That's the way the labor market works."
Further, there are two types of workers in South Korea. ``You have workers who have contracts and you cannot get rid of them whether they are good or bad."
``And there are other workers who have no contracts. They are out of the system. This division, I think, is very unfair. It's a system where people do not have the same rights. So I think this system in the labor market should be destroyed," Sorman said.

Sorman added: ``Both the trade unions and the government should keep in mind that to reduce unemployment, especially among the young people, you must bring more investors to the market, and to bring more investors to the market, you must have more flexibility in the market."
``Well," he added, ``but maybe this is easier said than done."

Investing In Ivory Towers

Sorman also spoke about the Korean education and university system. He called it one of Korea's glaring weaknesses.
``It seems to me that one of the weaknesses of South Korea right now is its educational system, the university system, which is extremely bureaucratic and is characterized by the Confucianistic style, which is not very well adopted to the global community," he said.

``But I don't want to be too severe because when I look at, for example, the country's innovation, South Korea is doing quite well. If you look at statistics about patents, for example. The United States comes first, Japan comes second, Europe comes third, and then South Korea comes fourth."

Nurturing Innovative Minds

``South Korea, which is relatively small, is more innovative ― and this can be quantified by the number of patents ― than Russia and China, which is incredible! You have, every year, more Korean patents than Chinese patents, which shows Koreans are very innovative," Sorman said.
``These figures are not well known but they are very impressive when you look at who is patenting what every year. China: nothing. Russia, nothing. The only players in terms of innovation are the United States, Japan, the European Union, and South Korea and then India."

Sorman added: ``China and Russia, right now ― they are not doing anything in terms of innovation. And I think South Korea could do much more by building a more competitive university system, by attracting more foreign professors, foreign students."
``The university system is really very closed ― it needs to be globalized. This is what I have been telling President Lee Myung-bak: this is a major challenge," Sorman said.

``I mean all the rest of the problems are well known: you must deregulate more and open up the service sector and the banking sector to competition, everybody knows that everywhere. That's part of the government platform."

But on higher education, there is not much focus, he said. ``And I think there really is room for improvement. The educational system is too closed, too bureaucratic and too Confucianistic, it seems to me. This is not a value judgment. It's just inconsistent with South Korea's ambition to become a global player."

Linking Businesses, Universities

``If you look at efficient U.S. universities, they have a lot of financial resources," he observed. ``So I think more private and public resources must be brought into the Korean university system. And big Korean corporations are putting a lot of money in sponsoring art and things like that; I mean that's okay. But I think much more money should be put into the university system. And like in the United States, links between business and academics should be increased," he observed.

``One of the strengths of the U.S. academic system is that businesses are subcontracting a lot of research to universities. Universities are really an essential part of the economic life in the United States. There is no border between business and academics. I think this is efficient and I think this is something that should be done in Korea."

``And also, Korean universities should make more links with European, Chinese, Russian or the U.S. universities and have more exchange programs. All these are basic steps that can be taken in order to have a more cosmopolitan flavor," he said.

``Also, one other problem, which will be a rising problem in Korea, is immigration. South Korea already has one million immigrants. It's not an easy problem to solve, but it's one that Koreans will have to deal with."

A Bright Future

But all in all, Sorman said he has always maintained a positive outlook for the country.
``I've been studying South Korea for more than 20 years and, you know, I am always rather upbeat and positive about South Korea's prospects," he said.

``Korea basically chose the right strategy in politics and the economy. In the 1960s, South Korea chose the free market and trade economic system. Today, everybody is following the same road," he said. ``South Korea is the only genuine democracy in this part of the world. In Japan, it's long been a one-party system. So South Korea is a genuine democracy and this brings a great advantage for Korea's future."

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/11/116_33670.html

[Mael]

An interesting notion from Pres. Lee but I'm very sure China will have something to say about such a notion.

[Dark_wolf247]

Long article is fucking loooooong yo.

But I got the general gist of it. I'm surprised, I gotta say, but I don't think it'll work out in the end. We'll see.

[Zoidberg]

Well, most asian countries might support this, but Southeast Asia already has the ASEAN, which is pretty much like the EU.

[horsdhaleine]

Old news :zaru

[Xion]

I hope it doesn't go to anything beyond that.

I mean they all seem to hate each other too much as it is. :edu

[Megaharrison]

This is doomed to failure between North Korea vs. South Korea/Japan, China vs. Taiwan, Vietnamese isolationism, Burma's brutal military junta, and renewed tensions between Thailand and Cambodia.

[Xion]

This is doomed to failure between North Korea vs. South Korea/Japan, China vs. Taiwan, Vietnamese isolationism, Burma's brutal military junta, and renewed tensions between Thailand and Cambodia.

Exactly. They also basically hate each other and their histories are no too kind to one another either.

I doubt there will be any union of any real sorts. But I have been surprised before.

[Vom Osten]

If this ever comes to fruition, it will simply be another name for the Chinese Empire.

[Utopia Realm]

Lets see how far they go w/ this.:zaru

[Dionysus]

Well, SE Asian nations are closer to this sort of thing. I doubt they'd include Japan or South Korea. (And would Japanese want to be involved with, say, Indonesia on a political level?) Would Japan and South Korea really agree to unprotected and free trade?

Yeah, this really IS pie in the sky. Maybe if they started this project outside of another devastating war. Perhaps if they really become scared of China. That's the only way I can see this happening for now. Aftermath of recent war or fear of China.

[Konan the Barbarian]

I think this is a good idea. An Asian Union inspired by the European Union means that foreign policy will be combined. And they will not act unless there is a consensus among all countries. This will reduce the chances of conflict.

The problem is that ONLY South Korea and Japan have a similar political system among the asian countries. Whereas in Europe, all the members of the EU democratically elect their government.

So I do not foresee an Asian Union larger than SK and Japan in the short term. The 3rd country that is closest to South Korea and Japan is Taiwan, but HAHA like China will just let Taiwan join the Asian Union. Although Taiwan really would fit in well with the 2 other democracies of South Korea and Japan.

[64palms]

Oh great, Pan-Asianism.

[Fruits Basket Fan]

Wow....Eastern cultures (Japan specifically) who are hightly proud of their ways of doing things and traditionally, only see their ways as the right way of doing things compared to the West want to copy the European Union :amazed???

I am not against it....but I wonder if they will be hostility between these Asian countries......Some still hate Japan for their cruel militaristic attacks against them in World War II....

[Graham Aker]

Human Reform League. Merlin's beard, we're becoming Gundam 00.

[horsdhaleine]

Well, SE Asian nations are closer to this sort of thing. I doubt they'd include Japan or South Korea. (And would Japanese want to be involved with, say, Indonesia on a political level?) Would Japan and South Korea really agree to unprotected and free trade?

ASEAN was founded on August 8, 1967 :edu
Of course, China, Japan, and Korea didn't want to be left out so they formed ASEAN + 3 (around mid-1990s). In short, those three East Asian countries butt in in our forum. Then US got jealous and wanted to be part of ASEAN. (The last I've heard of this was in 2005). The whole ASEAN block and the + 3 countries think, at least from what I've heard, that this idea is ridiculous. I, myself, agrees.

I think this is a good idea. An Asian Union inspired by the European Union means that foreign policy will be combined. And they will not act unless there is a consensus among all countries. This will reduce the chances of conflict.

The problem is that ONLY South Korea and Japan have a similar political system among the asian countries. Whereas in Europe, all the members of the EU democratically elect their government.

So I do not foresee an Asian Union larger than SK and Japan in the short term. The 3rd country that is closest to South Korea and Japan is Taiwan, but HAHA like China will just let Taiwan join the Asian Union. Although Taiwan really would fit in well with the 2 other democracies of South Korea and Japan.
Huh?

Asian Union? I do not foresee that in the future as well. But what are you talking about? Asia is big, man. Asia is not just Korea, China and Japan! What about India, Mongolia, Tibet, and West Asian (so-called Middle Eastern) countries? They're Asians too. The conflict in East Asian countries does not represent the whole diplomatic status of Asia.

I think what you have in mind is East Asia and not Asia as a continent. As for East Asia, they're already proposing EAC... Plus we have regular EAS

And yes, Taiwan seems to be not included :laugh

Wow....Eastern cultures (Japan specifically) who are hightly proud of their ways of doing things and traditionally, only see their ways as the right way of doing things compared to the West want to copy the European Union :amazed???

I am not against it....but I wonder if they will be hostility between these Asian countries......Some still hate Japan for their cruel militaristic attacks against them in World War II....
Idea of unification is nothing new. Even one of the Japanese WWII propaganda was based on unification (=Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere) :notrust

[Gymnopedie]

An interesting notion from Pres. Lee but I'm very sure China will have something to say about such a notion.


I was thinking that same thing.

[Konan the Barbarian]

ASEAN was founded on August 8, 1967 :


Huh?

Asian Union? I do not foresee that in the future as well. But what are you talking about? Asia is big, man. Asia is not just Korea, China and Japan! What about India, Mongolia, Tibet, and West Asian (so-called Middle Eastern) countries? They're Asians too. The conflict in East Asian countries does not represent the whole diplomatic status of Asia.


I was not narrowing the definition of Asia. I only mentionned that an Asian Union would only include SK and Japan because only those two have a democratically elect government. I do not think that democracies are willing to form an union and compromise on foreign policies and other matters with an autoritarian government like the People's Republic of China and Burma.

But I was wrong about the number of legitimate democracies in Asia. Mongolia also has a democratically elect government so I'm sure they would be founding members of an Asian Union with SK, Japan, the Phillipines, Indonesia and Thailand (despite their government instability).

Yes India is part of Asia too. If they join the Asian Union, with their future potential that Union could rival the EU. Palestine, Syria, Iraq are Middle Eastern countries first and Asian countries second I think.

Kirgizstan and the other central asian countries are democracies so sure I think they can be part of the Asian Union. I'm all for Tibet and Taiwan joining, but their membership chance is next to nill due to China's pressure. Heck, Taiwan isn't even recognized as a country by most of the world because of China's pressure.

Your post made me realize that India and the central asian countries could potentially be part of an Asian Union.

[Dionysus]

ASEAN was founded on August 8, 1967 :edu
Of course, China, Japan, and Korea didn't want to be left out so they formed ASEAN + 3 (around mid-1990s). In short, those three East Asian countries butt in in our forum. Then US got jealous and wanted to be part of ASEAN. (The last I've heard of this was in 2005). The whole ASEAN block and the + 3 countries think, at least from what I've heard, that this idea is ridiculous. I, myself, agrees.
Observer status is nothing new.

There is also the APEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia-Pacific_Economic_Cooperation). I don't know how effectual it is.

Things like ASEAN are attempts to lessen the influence of larger nations. (Observer status don't change this.) I don't know if they would want to include the "bully" in the group to begin with. Having Japan and China in an EU-style union would mean that they call the shots. And more and more China on its own.

This does nothing to talk about the cultural and political dissimilarities. They're still a huge problem in the EU, the supposed working model.

(Then expanding this to all Asia.) I'm often puzzled by the ideas some have of Asian solidarity. Like China, India, Japan, and Saudi Arabia can get along sharing political power and tight economic integration. Including free movement of people. (I'm sure the Wahhabis would jump at the chance to build giant mosques in Japan.)

[Nemesis]

If this ever comes to fruition, it will simply be another name for the Chinese Empire.

Ghengis Khan disapproves of such nonsense. This will be the rebirth of the Mongolian empire!

[horsdhaleine]

But I was wrong about the number of legitimate democracies in Asia. Mongolia also has a democratically elect government so I'm sure they would be founding members of an Asian Union with SK, Japan, the Phillipines, Indonesia and Thailand (despite their government instability).

If it weren't for the American colonization and Japanese occupation, democracy in the Philippines would even have a longer history.

Yes India is part of Asia too. If they join the Asian Union, with their future potential that Union could rival the EU. Palestine, Syria, Iraq are Middle Eastern countries first and Asian countries second I think.

http://www.smartpedicabs.com/maxweb/images/asia_map.jpg
West Asia (Middle East) is still part of Asia.

The problem with some Westerners is that when they think of Asia, they only think of the three East Asian countries, namely China, (South) Korea and Japan. But that is just East Asia. Poor Mongolia, some Westerners don't even consider it part of the East Asian block, but it is.

Even Russia, from Ural mountains eastward, is part of Asia, geographically-speaking. Its capital, however, lies on the European side.

Kirgizstan and the other central asian countries are democracies so sure I think they can be part of the Asian Union. I'm all for Tibet and Taiwan joining, but their membership chance is next to nill due to China's pressure. Heck, Taiwan isn't even recognized as a country by most of the world because of China's pressure.

Your post made me realize that India and the central asian countries could potentially be part of an Asian Union.Why not? If it's just about Korea, China and Japan, then they could just stick to the now defunct Malaysian proposition of East Asia Economic Caucus, right? But as know, that proposition back in 1990 was not well received and was eventually dropped. As of now, I don't see any possible exact revival of the proposal as most politicians consider that it would compromise APEC relations.

-----
additional: (to avoid double posting)


Things like ASEAN are attempts to lessen the influence of larger nations. (Observer status don't change this.) I don't know if they would want to include the "bully" in the group to begin with. Having Japan and China in an EU-style union would mean that they call the shots. And more and more China on its own. Most ASEAN nations are formerly colonized states and it's not surprising it they want to lessen the influence of other powerful nations. As a Southeast Asian woman, I'm all for it. And no, I don't like the idea of US joining in both as an observer and participant. As far as I know, Asian nations never tried to join NATO. :quite

This does nothing to talk about the cultural and political dissimilarities. They're still a huge problem in the EU, the supposed working model. Yes... Those unification proposal are mainly economic in nature. Asia is very culturally diverse and I like it to stay that way.

I'm often puzzled by the ideas some have of Asian solidarity. Like China, India, Japan, and Saudi Arabia can get along sharing political power and tight economic integration. Including free movement of people.

Those groups are usually economic in nature, similar to the European Economic Community (EEC) before the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht. I don't think we would want a union similar to European Union. No. Just no. At least, not for now.

[Le Male]

I create this thread but i stay out because if i make a mistake, horsdhaleine will kick me in the face.

[Sky is Over]

Hmmm, I don't really see it happening to be honest. I believe that in the coming years that North and South Korea will be reunified, but seeing a secular country like Japan that has sown some bad seeds in the past decades with other Asian nations might make the binding a bit difficult.

[Oujisama]

It would be great if this sort of thing got underway. Everyones being pessimistic because of history, but that is exactly why a union would help relations between the countries. The countries in the EU fought in wars several times before but it didnt prevent the EU from booming.

[horsdhaleine]

I create this thread but i stay out because if i make a mistake, horsdhaleine will kick me in the face.

Je n'avais pas l'intention de t'intimider, hein? :urahaha



It would be great if this sort of thing got underway. Everyones being pessimistic because of history, but that is exactly why a union would help relations between the countries. The countries in the EU fought in wars several times before but it didnt prevent the EU from booming.
EU has several problems too. :nod

[Le Male]

Je n'avais pas l'intention de t'intimider, hein? :urahaha




EU has several problems too. :nod

C'est juste que ici, si tu as le malheur de dire une erreur, tu te fais fusiller.

EU has several problems but i think we are better with the EU than without.
Our main problem is that's we are 27 now, it was easier when we were 12 or 15. Now we can evolve because there is always someone who disagree. It's funny to see that's the EU work as one and no more disagrement because of the financial crisis.

[beads]

We should make a North American Union.

[Xion]

I am interested in what such a community would be called.

AFTA? AU? :sag

[Konan the Barbarian]

I think Asian Confederation has a nice ring to it.

[Karol!]

these union things are all the rage these days, huh?

i dont see it happening.

[dummy plug]

japan helping korea eh? well at least they have good intentions :amuse

[Dionysus]

Well, Japan is in the G8. They don't need NATO, since they have the US regardless. It's also a vastly different subject than economic unions. And the EU is already in talks to admit an Asian country!

If you restrict thought to only economic union (no political), continents are often no issue. Canada-EU or EFTA, US - Australia, etc.

Those groups are usually economic in nature, similar to the European Economic Community (EEC) before the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht. I don't think we would want a union similar to European Union. No. Just no. At least, not for now.
Free movement of people and immigration is all about economics. Japan and South Korea are struggling against following Europe and North America, but there certainly is pressure to do it.

It's hard to justify an economic union when it's only goods and services that flow across the borders. Especially one inspired by the EU. Even NAFTA makes it easier for professionals to work in the US and Canada. Even if it's just "professionals," how many people would Japan take? When you include China into the talks, the issue of immigration becomes rather alarming. (I think Russians will have some backlash against Chinese immigration into the areas close to it.)

It sounds to me that you would prefer a NAFTA type deal. The article doesn't make it seem that's the model wished for.

FTAs are being negotiated between nations anyways, and the thinking isn't constrained to Asia. I think APEC has tried as well, or is trying. My thoughts are all over the place on this. So, in conclusion, open borders and political union is a silly idea in Asia. Will be for some time. On that we agree.

(To the person suggesting the AU, Africa already had that taken. :zaru)

(Also, my guess is that horsdhaleine is Vietnamese. :edu)

[Purgatory]

Next up...North American Union!

[horsdhaleine]

Well, Japan is in the G8. They don't need NATO, since they have the US regardless. It's also a vastly different subject than economic unions. I just reiterated a Japanese diplomat I met before. :quite They need NATO but they don't need to be a member NATO and neither do US need to be a member of ASEAN. :quite

Free movement of people and immigration is all about economics. Japan and South Korea are struggling against following Europe and North America, but there certainly is pressure to do it.Oh yes... :hehee

It sounds to me that you would prefer a NAFTA type deal. The article doesn't make it seem that's the model wished for. In theory, yes. But not really.

FTAs are being negotiated between nations anyways, and the thinking isn't constrained to Asia. I think APEC has tried as well, or is trying. My thoughts are all over the place on this. So, in conclusion, open borders and political union is a silly idea in Asia. Will be for some time. On that we agree. If it's a union modeled by EU, then it's very silly indeed. Those talks about following the EU-model has been going on for years, I did not even take the article seriously. They can plan all they want. But I'm sure it won't happen soon. :nod That Asian Union is a one big misnomer by that Guy Sorman. :pek (I do agree about his opinion on Korea's Labor Market and Education though... but he's just concerned about Korea and not the whole of Asia :pek :pek :pek) Interestingly, he's a professor in Science-Po. I know a person who graduated from there. :hehee Anyway, this article from Korea Times is more like an update and opinion by Michael Ha (whoever he is) than big news to me.

Anyway, here wasn't even any talk between Korea and Japan that was mentioned. It was just a long essay about Sorman's vision. In short, there was no statement that there are concrete plans of EU-modeled unification by Asians. This is just an opinion by a random French professor made into an article.

(Also, my guess is that horsdhaleine is Vietnamese. )Not at all. :pek

What made you think so?


Interesting reaction by a Korea Times reader:
seamonkey (124.5.192.163) 11-01-2008 18:55
HAAAAHAAAA...does this guy live here? does he know the korean mind? Asian union with Japan and Korea at the forefront...ridiculous and won't happen in my lifetime. How can Korea cooperate with Japan when it can't even get its own house in order. Unification with NK isn't about to happen and as long as I've been here I've never heard a bad word about the North but plenty about Japan.

Next up...North American Union!Asian Union is actually more like American Union in hypothetical comparison - yes, America including the whole South America. Do you want open borders simply because you're on the same continent?

[Le Male]

But why the US want to be member of the ASEAN ? To decide for them ?

Oh horsdhaleine you know someone who were gratuated from science po ? Wow, you know lot of people lol

[horsdhaleine]

But why the US want to be member of the ASEAN ? To decide for them ?
complicated stuff, I'll have to ask someone to confirm... But that's what I certainly remember. It was a long ago though...

Oh horsdhaleine you know someone who were gratuated from science po ? Wow, you know lot of people lolOf course :hehee

[Le Male]

Well i posted this article because i though it was interesting, i don't know if this union is possible (according to most of people here....no) but it was interesting just to imagine it.

If we can do it in Europe, that's mean we finally enough cool to work togerther :quite

[horsdhaleine]

Well, in theory it's interesting. :amuse
but real life is much more complicated, if not chaotic...

it's not realistic to compare it to EU.
in terms of nation-statehood, European nations have a long history and a sense of identity.
whereas in Asia, it's not the same thing, dear.
simple example : just look at languages and dialects, around 500 in indonesia and around 166 in the philippines. can you imagine the division within one country? we got to work on internal stability first.
plus the fact that a lot of Asian states have been colonized makes nationhood and identity more difficult. you're half-african you should be familiar with post-colonial societies, or have you forgotten your roots? :)

being cool to work together is a superficial reason to overhaul local and international policies. it's not something one change just to make it cool. :)

[Le Male]

Well, in theory it's interesting. :amuse
but real life is much more complicated, if not chaotic...

it's not realistic to compare it to EU.
in terms of nation-statehood, European nations have a long history and a sense of identity.
whereas in Asia, it's not the same thing, dear.
simple example : just look at languages and dialects, around 500 in indonesia and around 166 in the philippines. can you imagine the division within one country? we got to work on internal stability first.
plus the fact that a lot of Asian states have been colonized makes nationhood and identity more difficult. you're half-african you should be familiar with post-colonial societies, or have you forgotten your roots? :)

being cool to work together is a superficial reason to overhaul local and international policies. it's not something one change just to make it cool. :)

I'm half african but i grew up in Europe and mainly with my french father. So i don't really understand it. So yeah maybe i forgotten a part of my roots.

Are you one of those who are against the EU as well ?

[horsdhaleine]

^ no. why? where did you get that idea? :amazed







btw, what do you look like? more like your dad or your mom?
can i see a picture of your family?

[master bruce]

and so it begins.

scary stuff dude.

[dreams lie]

This is laughable. No China, Russia, or India?

[Purgatory]

Asian Union is actually more like American Union in hypothetical comparison - yes, America including the whole South America. Do you want open borders simply because you're on the same continent?

Eugh, the thought of a North American Union makes me sick to my ass. This country wasn't made just so that Mexicans and Canadians could inhabit it. Although..we could've taken control of Canada and make it a part of the US..

But why the US want to be member of the ASEAN ? To decide for them ?

Why would the US support this Asian Union?

Well i posted this article because i though it was interesting, i don't know if this union is possible (according to most of people here....no) but it was interesting just to imagine it.

If we can do it in Europe, that's mean we finally enough cool to work togerther :quite

As long as you guys don't try to encourage a North American Union, it's all good.

[Dionysus]

Not at all. :pek

What made you think so?
Randomly selecting an ASEAN country with strong ties to France. :hmm?

[horsdhaleine]

The problem with this discussion is that people just reacted to the title and did not read the whole article nor checked its sources. :oh

Eugh, the thought of a North American Union makes me sick to my ass. This country wasn't made just so that Mexicans and Canadians could inhabit it. Although..we could've taken control of Canada and make it a part of the US..See?


Why would the US support this Asian Union? Asian Union : Guy Sorman's vision. And Guy Sorman is French, not Asian. :pek
ASEAN : Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Started as ASA in 1961 with Philippines, Malaysia, and Thailand then evolve into ASEAN in August 8, 1967.

Randomly selecting an ASEAN country with strong ties to France. :hmm?Strong ties with France?

Pero hablo español también :awesome
do I have strong ties with Spain?

I think I have more ties with Japan.

[dummy plug]

Strong ties with France?

Pero hablo español también :awesome
do I have strong ties with Spain?

I think I have more ties with Japan.

and Taiwan and South Korea too :kukuku

[Purgatory]

See?

Apparently you haven't researched about the talk of a North American Union. And since there was relation to a European Union, and now a possible Asian Union, the next step they're probably want to take is a NAU, God forbid.

[horsdhaleine]

and Taiwan and South Korea too don't exaggerate...

Apparently you haven't researched about the talk of a North American Union. And since there was relation to a European Union, and now a possible Asian Union, the next step they're probably want to take is a NAU, God forbid.No, not at all. I'm not interested.

possible Asian Union? don't worry it's not happening... well, not in the near future...

[dummy plug]

don't exaggerate...

im not, we have strong economic ties with Taiwan and South Koreans are migrating here by the dozens, thanks to the government's Retirement Program..that's why there are lots of Koreans here today :kukuku

[Purgatory]

No, not at all. I'm not interested.

possible Asian Union? don't worry it's not happening... well, not in the near future...

Let's say it was being discussed by leaders of Canada, US, and Mexico, publically being known. Would you still not give two shits?

[MonkeyMallet]

If they want to make a union, they should be serious about it and be willing to include n korea, and possbily non-"Asian" Asian countries

[Dionysus]

Strong ties with France?

Pero hablo español también :awesome
do I have strong ties with Spain?

I think I have more ties with Japan.
Don't get snippy with me over a guess. :mad

Had you used Spanish earlier, I would have guessed Phillipines. :awesome

[Dao]

This is doomed to failure between North Korea vs. South Korea/Japan, China vs. Taiwan, Vietnamese isolationism, Burma's brutal military junta, and renewed tensions between Thailand and Cambodia.

Quoted for truth!
S.Korea (Korea in general)/ Japan are both very patriotic countries.. I highly doubt so.

[horsdhaleine]

Let's say it was being discussed by leaders of Canada, US, and Mexico, publically being known. Would you still not give two shits?

And if I say no, I wouldn't? :LOS

Just kidding. :hehee

Of course I will. But North America is so far from me and I have more important things to think about here at home. Until I get to read a comprehensive report on that topic, I wouldn't waste time on it. Besides, what you get from the news is just one small side of the truth, I'll just ask someone who specialize in politics if I want to understand it better.

Actually, I rarely read and watch the news. :hehee
I have better sources. :awesome

If they want to make a union, they should be serious about it and be willing to include n korea, and possbily non-"Asian" Asian countries

non-Asian Asian countries? :huh
Who are you to say that other Asian countries are not Asian enough?

Don't get snippy with me over a guess. :mad

Had you used Spanish earlier, I would have guessed Philippines. :awesome

Hahahaha! You're right~~~ :zaru

But really, those languages will not indicate one's nationality. French is very rare in Vietnam even among older people, according to my former Vietnamese classmate and Spanish here is equally rare. The Spanish left before 1900, no?

[Xion]

and so it begins.

scary stuff dude.

What begins?

The End of the World? That doesn't start until 2012. :)

[Le Male]

But really, those languages will not indicate one's nationality. French is very rare in Vietnam even among older people, according to my former Vietnamese classmate and Spanish here is equally rare. The Spanish left before 1900, no?

But there are lot of immigrants and students from these former french asian collonies in France. There are still ties between these county and i think there member of the francophonie, even if i agree that's almost all country can enter in (taiwan want to be in).

[horsdhaleine]

I'm just saying what the university student from Hanoi told me. :zaru

My point is just because you speak a certain foreign language will not indicate your nationality. Especially in the last 10 years, with the advent of Area Studies and a more intensive Language Studies in the academe, people have more access to foreign language education, even if their country have ties or not with the country where the foreign language is spoken.

(To Dionysus: I learned French and Spanish in uni :zaru)

Of course, even if it's usually under humanities and/or in linguistics division, language learning, especially promoting a certain language to be studied, is sometimes dictated by politics. Look at BBC language learning section. 5 years ago, they didn't have a how to speak Chinese section (http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/chinese/) and now, it's one of the main sections. Others just get a small phrase section.

But there are lot of immigrants and students from these former french asian collonies in France. There are still ties between these county

And so?

France has maintained its ties to Vietnam, can you speak Vietnamese? Political ties will not automatically tie the local citizens to foreign language and culture, if so then we should all be walking multilinguals.

Well, those immigrants in France are immigrants! It's not surprising if they speak French. Hehehe. If they no longer hold a Vietnamese nationality, then they are no longer counted as a part of the Vietnamese population. Just as you are not counted as a part of African population. You yourself told me that en Afrique, je ne suis qu'un étranger. (In Africa, I am nothing but a stranger.)

It would be much interesting if the French would be required to learn Vietnamese and use it as an official language so they would see for themselves what it would be like to have a foreign language imposed on them. :LOS

Just an example. I want to see how you would react. :LOS

and i think there member of the francophonieYes.

Nom du Pays République socialiste du Vietnam
Capitale Hanoi
Superficie 329 560 km2
Population 84 200 000 (2005) hbts
Région du Monde Asie-Pacifique

Langue officielle vietnamien
Fête Nationale 2 septembre
Monnaie Dong
RNB 480 (2003)
PIB 2 490 (2003)

Date d'adhésion à la Francophonie mars 1970
Statut Etat membre

But does membership in Francophonie will automatically make the Vietnamese francophone?

From Francophonie par Pierre Gieling
...

Et aujourd’hui ? Qu’en reste-t-il ? Le Vietnam est-il vraiment francophone ? Les chiffres sont très variables… Adoptons celui-ci : 0,5% de la population vietnamienne parlerait français de façon courante ou occasionnelle ; ces 375 000 personnes représenteraient donc environ 0,25% des francophones dans le monde.

Ne nous faisons pas d’illusions : le français n’est pas, n’est plus la langue de communication au Vietnam en l’an 2000. On écrit des poèmes en français, on chante en français, on enseigne en français, on parle français pour le plaisir… Mais dans la vie courante, la très grande majorité parle vietnamien et anglais. L’étranger est d’ailleurs presque toujours abordé en anglais : « hello » ! Le français est parlé sur incitation : ainsi si l’on vous entend parler français, il est probable que plusieurs personnes vous disent bonjour.

...

La francophonie au Vietnam est donc peu (et de moins en moins ?) visible, elle ne viendra pas à votre rencontre… Il vous faudra aller la chercher, car elle est là, un peu cachée dans les cœurs et les âmes de nombreux vietnamiens. Ils la chérissent comme un vieux bijou, dans sa boîte, et lui font prendre l’air de temps en temps. Certains, de plus en plus ouvertement, la transmettent à leurs enfants…



Qui sont ces
francophones
du Vietnam ?

On pense bien entendu en premier lieu aux survivants de l’époque coloniale française. Celle-ci ayant pris fin en 1954, c’est-à-dire il n’y a « que » 46 ans, cela fait quand même pas mal de monde, même dans un pays dont la majorité de la population est très jeune...


:zaru

[Xion]

Quoted for truth!
S.Korea (Korea in general)/ Japan are both very patriotic countries.. I highly doubt so.

Plus all the Asian nations basically hate each other. :zaru

[horsdhaleine]

Plus all the Asian nations basically hate each other. :zaru

Not really. :zaru

[Altron]

oh well the Asian EU however would have gundams before US and EU :(

[Xion]

Not really. :zaru

lol yeah they do

I refer you fabio v. Ouijisama and China v. Japan as examples. :quite

[horsdhaleine]

fabio vs oujisama

Hahahahahahaha! :rotfl

no. fabs is a filipino with a japanese wife who often goes to korea for work...

oujisama is korean who lives in US but has been to Japan too.

me a filipina (=philippine woman) who studied in Japan for a year. but me stays here in my beloved philippines. :awesome

me both friends with fabs and ouji... and le male :zaru



me just teasing le male here in his thread :ninja

[Xion]

fabio vs oujisama

Hahahahahahaha! :rotfl

no. fabs is a filipino with a japanese wife who often goes to korea for work...

oujisama is korean who lives in US but has been to Japan too.

me a filipina (=philippine woman) who studied in Japan for a year. but me stays here in my beloved philippines. :awesome

me both friends with fabs and ouji... and le male :zaru

You're Ms. Diversity aren't you? :ohpek

And I know about jeromes2k, I just found their discussion awesome and long. :edu

[Purgatory]

And if I say no, I wouldn't? :LOS

Just kidding. :hehee

Of course I will. But North America is so far from me and I have more important things to think about here at home. Until I get to read a comprehensive report on that topic, I wouldn't waste time on it. Besides, what you get from the news is just one small side of the truth, I'll just ask someone who specialize in politics if I want to understand it better.

I don't watch MSNBC or FOX or CNN or any of that stupid shit.

[horsdhaleine]

^ hey sweetie, what's with the language? is that how you speak to a woman? :) news is not stupid ****. It's just that I'm just more concerned about the local news here than the news in US. :) I'm a Filipina after all and not an American. If I want to know things about US politics, I'd just read a political journal. It's better.



@Xion: Of course, who doesn't like diversity? we should respect cultural, political, and linguistic difference even if sometimes we do not like it.. :awesome

[Altron]

call me when we see Gundams :awesome

[Jeαnne]

omg it will be pretty cool :3

[dummy plug]

call me when we see Gundams :awesome

it is obvious that the japs will develop Gundams and it would be another 2 years before the chinese create their own version of cheap Gundams, then the rest of the world will catch up..this is more probable than an EU-like organization here in asia...:amuse

and basically, most asian countries just talk, that's about it...ASEAN countries hold meetings annually but i really dont see any improvement :oh

but if calamity strikes, we sure help each other out :amuse

[Jetstorm]

Wow, this is a shocker...well not really. I was expecting this since the EU formed and the North American Union is apparently under way. Was only a matter of time before the Asian countries would try to follow suit.

Actually pulling it off is another thing though. Lets see if they can manage it.

[Mael]

call me when we see Gundams :awesome

it is obvious that the japs will develop Gundams and it would be another 2 years before the chinese create their own version of cheap Gundams, then the rest of the world will catch up..this is more probable than an EU-like organization here in asia...:amuse

and basically, most asian countries just talk, that's about it...ASEAN countries hold meetings annually but i really dont see any improvement :oh

but if calamity strikes, we sure help each other out :amuse

Then we shall respond with Spess Mehrens, battle barges, and Titans! And seeing how America has practically all the races, everyone is entitled to becoming a Spess Mehren. :awesome

C'mon...you knew after those comments it was coming. :zaru