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View Full Version : We're supporting the wrong guys.... Again


MonkeyMallet
10-31-2008, 02:12 PM
To put things into context for the article: the US is backing Ethiopia in attacking Somalia, supporting our own kind of terrorism I guess. The excuse is simply because "Islamic government". However, look at the result (not as bad as Iraq, but pretty messed up)

Sauce: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/world/africa/18ethiopia.html
I stumbled on this when I read SS's nytimes article - same editor


IN THE OGADEN DESERT, Ethiopia — The rebels march 300 strong across the crunchy earth, young men with dreadlocks and AK-47s slung over their shoulders.

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With the Rebels Often when they pass through a village, the entire village lines up, one sunken cheekbone to the next, to squint at them.

“May God bring you victory,” one woman whispered.

This is the Ogaden, a spindle-legged corner of Ethiopia that the urbane officials in Addis Ababa, the capital, would rather outsiders never see. It is the epicenter of a separatist war pitting impoverished nomads against one of the biggest armies in Africa.

What goes on here seems to be starkly different from the carefully constructed up-and-coming image that Ethiopia — a country that the United States increasingly relies on to fight militant Islam in the Horn of Africa — tries to project.

In village after village, people said they had been brutalized by government troops. They described a widespread and longstanding reign of terror, with Ethiopian soldiers gang-raping women, burning down huts and killing civilians at will.

It is the same military that the American government helps train and equip — and provides with prized intelligence. The two nations have been allies for years, but recently they have grown especially close, teaming up last winter to oust an Islamic movement that controlled much of Somalia and rid the region of a potential terrorist threat.

The Bush administration, particularly the military, considers Ethiopia its best bet in the volatile Horn — which, with Sudan, Somalia and Eritrea, is fast becoming intensely violent, virulently anti-American and an incubator for terrorism.

But an emerging concern for American officials is the way that the Ethiopian military operates inside its own borders, especially in war zones like the Ogaden.

Anab, a 40-year-old camel herder who was too frightened, like many others, to give her last name, said soldiers took her to a police station, put her in a cell and twisted her nipples with pliers. She said government security forces routinely rounded up young women under the pretext that they were rebel supporters so they could bring them to jail and rape them.

“Me, I am old,” she said, “but they raped me, too.”

Moualin, a rheumy-eyed elder, said Ethiopian troops stormed his village, Sasabene, in January looking for rebels and burned much of it down. “They hit us in the face with the hardest part of their guns,” he said.

The villagers said the abuses had intensified since April, when the rebels attacked a Chinese-run oil field, killing nine Chinese workers and more than 60 Ethiopian soldiers and employees. The Ethiopian government has vowed to crush the rebels but rejects all claims that it abuses civilians.

“Our soldiers are not allowed to do these kinds of things,” said Nur Abdi Mohammed, a government spokesman. “This is only propaganda and cannot be justified. If a government soldier did this type of thing they would be brought before the courts.”

Even so, the State Department, the European Parliament and many human rights groups, mostly outside Ethiopia, have cited thousands of cases of torture, arbitrary detention and extrajudicial killings — enough to raise questions in Congress about American support of the Ethiopian government.


This is just a short part of a long article.
See the pieces in bold at the end.

I don't know why we trust these guys to fight "Islamic militants" when they are abusing their own peopel....
Aside from the US pulling away our support from them (since they are attacking another country at the least), Starbucks should threatento stop buying their coffee....

Megaharrison
10-31-2008, 02:25 PM
The U.S. needs to curb Al-Qaeda inspired and loosely affiliated terrorist groups in the Horn of Africa. Ethiopia does as well. Thus, the enemy of my enemy is my friend/lesser of two evil concepts come into play. Moreover the Ethiopian operations in Somalia could bring a degree of stability to that country if properly managed. If you think the Ethiopians are depraved, then you don't know what the Islamic Courts Union was up to.

Given the limited options available, the Ethiopians are simply the best choice. If you want to find a truly humane government or faction in Africa you're going to have a tough time.

I understand this sounds cold and against Democratic ideals what not, but It's really a bad idea to combine emotional ideology with necessary foreign policy.

kulgan18
10-31-2008, 02:37 PM
lol isnt that the entire story of US foreign policy?.
The US backs the taliban, the US backs Sadam Hussein , etc

Cant wait until someone deems Ethiopia a threat and decides to invade it.

Things like that have a way of biting you in the ass.
People do not forget that kind of abuse and who was behind it.

iander
10-31-2008, 02:41 PM
No the problem is you buy into the rhetoric that those are the only choices. The US does not have to support terrorists be they government or Islamic and the fact that they do undermines any legitimacy the war on Terror has. These groups are only allowed to continue because they are supported. The US didnt need to oust Massadegh to put the Shah in power, the US didnt need to support Pinochet to oust Allende, the US didnt need to support Saddam against Iran, the US didnt need to support Batista or Armas, or the Contras, or any group that committed terrorist acts. They always say they need to for security reasons but the result is ultimately a setback for the nations political and social development.

Republican
10-31-2008, 02:57 PM
It might be "valorous" or "noble" or something but America has a kind of dumb habit of always supporting the (usually by far) underdog...

Wesley
10-31-2008, 03:00 PM
Lol, Africa.

beads
10-31-2008, 03:38 PM
Sigh. Here we go again.

Doc. Q
10-31-2008, 06:18 PM
Lol, africa

hammer
10-31-2008, 06:20 PM
what is this africa of which you speak of :hmm?

dummy plug
11-01-2008, 12:02 AM
another ethnic cleansing or simply invasion of a neighbor? :oh

Xion
11-01-2008, 02:15 AM
I'm an American good sir. Do you honestly expect me to read that? :quite

Less technical jorgan and moar talking points! :gar

The Space Cowboy
11-01-2008, 02:51 AM
Need I bring up the fact that Somalia is one of the biggest hotbeds on Earth for piracy? We have an interest in suppressing at least that symptom. There is no sensible reason that we shouldn't.

Honestly the way that area of Africa seems to act disappoints me. And there seems to be not a damn thing we can do about it except treat symptoms as they appear. Even if you say foreign intervention is the problem, it still doesn't answer the question of why 8th century tactics of raping, looting, and pillaging is more or less normal for the Horn of Africa.

Somalia is fraught with warlords, and I don't even want to go into what the Janjaweed is doing in the Sudan. Ethiopia is possibly the best choice in the area for the US to assist, seeing as they seem to have a stable regime.

Lord Yu
11-01-2008, 02:59 AM
Lol, Africa.

Thread over.