- Gundam SEED: Destiny [v3.0]

[Bronwen]

AsuCag fans shouldn't lose too much hope. It's obvious both still care about each other very much or Athrun wouldn't noticed the significance of Cagalli not wearing the ring. Athrun says that it'll be all alright after Cagalli avoided talking to him.

There's no scene that Cagalli gave it back to Athrun, she doesn't want to hold Athrun onto that promise if he wishes, he doesn't have to return to her but because of the war and too much at stake, I think she wants to focus on her role as a leader. She knows she screwed it up and she's giving Athrun a choice that in the end, after the war, if he still wants to return to her, she'll welcome him back.

Cagalli's tears in the end after talking to Meyrin and telling Athrun to take care of him as she's not joining him is sad.

[darksage78]

I'm not complaining about the newest episode. It was actually quite good. As for the Athrun and Cagalli thing, meh... They were on in Seed, off in GS for the most part even though Athrun gave an engagement ring to her. Actually if they do continue with a third GS series, they could continue it. I mean a relationship doesn't have to automatically work. Kira and Lacus are kinda like that, so it would be interesting to see how Athrun and Cagalli work things out.

Right now I'm more curious on what ties Dullindal had with Djibril. Two episodes in a row where Dullindal had creepy reactions...

[Chillin]

Dullindal is slowly unmasking his true character. I hope he's a cool and collected psycho, rather than just all out nuts.

[Akirou]

U_I, and 3rdstrike - Do you remember that pic with Athrun and Cagalli in their pilot suits with Akatsuki and I-Justice behind them? This is the article, with a lot of extras:

p. 14
-----

LOVERS [ Athrun and Cagalli ]

A lover is someone's equal. Before, Athrun was too agressive, Cagalli was too inexperienced/immature. After experiencing so much together, have they finally become able to look out for each other?


ORB-01 Akatsuki
'Akatsuki' means 'daybreak', that is to say, the light of hope. For this reason it shines a brilliant gold.[1] Is it just a coincidence that 'Athrun' also means 'daybreak'?

Cagalli Yula Athha
No longer the daughter of the lion[2], she has become the lion herself. She has become stronger. In a circumstance where she is unable to depend on Athrun, she has, in a way, become stronger than him.


p. 15
-----

ZGMF-X19A Infinite Justice Gundam
Justice, again. A lethal weapon he received from his father, and self-destructed to bring his father's hopes to an end. Whether piloting Justice makes him equally dangerous or not is his sole discretion.

Athrun Zala
He was the self-appointed guardian/protector of Cagalli, but she has already matured. What she now needs is a partner in equal. From this point on, he and she can become lovers for the first time.


p. 16
-----

LOVERS [Athrun and Cagalli]

Why aren't Athrun and Cagalli like most lovers out there?

When the series "Destiny" started, many Athrun and Cagalli fans were probably astonished to find little change in their relationship, compared to how they were two years before. (Fans) were probably thinking, it would be nice if there were less distance between them.

The distance between Athrun and Cagalli, with the unfolding of this new story, seems to widen. For one thing, by (Athrun's) joining the Minerva and (Cagalli's joining the) Archangel, they are physically separated. Both of them were so engrossed in thinking about what they could do for the world, they had no time to spare for each other. Can these two be happy together from this point on? It seems uncertain, for Cagalli and Athrun are people who believe there is something more important than their own sufficiency.[3] They aren't the type of people who would turn their back on injustice and wallow in their own happiness. Some would call them noble, others would call them naive[4]; it all depends on how one sees them.

To put this on the grand scale of things[5], Athrun and Cagalli are two people who have given up their own happiness to the world. As long as there is conflict in space or on land, Athrun will have to go into battle. As long as her people need her, Cagalli will have to stake her life defending them. They do this not because they were asked to do so, but because they will not be able to live doing otherwise.

However, if they're in different places carrying out their own responsibility, all the while thinking 'she/he's doing his best at the moment too', they can go on.[6] It is possible that such a simple, beautiful kind of love exists.


-pink text between Athrun and Cagalli-

Will flowers bloom in the dawn?
Athrun and Cagalli. Many fans pray for a real happy ending for this clumsy twosome. Will it really happen!?


-ignoring the TM Revolution sidebar-


p. 18-19
--------

LOVERS [ Athrun and Cagalli ]

Tracing the footsteps of the no good fisherman who catches pretty girls even as he wanders through Cosmic Era quietly.[7]

DEAR ATHRUN...

The girls love Athrun. Why is that so? We take a closer look at this -CHARACTER BLURRED- boy who draws the girls to him.


Cagalli Yula Athha
Equally inept at love, but somehow moves at the same pace as he does, making her suitable for him. What did she think of him coming back with Meyrin?

Meyrin Hawke
Was the killer phrase "please don't leave me here" an innocent plea, or was it a calculated move? Among the people around him it is definitely she who deals with him most sharply.[8]

Lunamaria Hawke
She had her sights set on him, got excited to the point of exploding.[9] In a way it's real unrequited love. She seems hurting even as she gets closer to Shinn.

Meer Campbell
Mysterious Meer; one wonders why she and Dullandal aren't being thought of as an item. If she let Athrun betray Dullandal and escape, does it mean she's also serious about (Athrun)?


This boy Athrun, isn't there anything we can do about him? He's popular with the girls. For some reason he's very popular with the girls. Even if he keeps to himself, the girls come on to him. It makes one wonder if he emits a scent or something that drives the girls crazy.

There seems to be an awful lot of girls surrounding him --- like, say, Cagalli, but let's not include her. After all, that Athrun prepared a ring for her (how did he know her size?) and everything, so we know she's the favorite. But when he and Cagalli started having a misunderstanding, things got a little odd. Lunamaria developed interest in him and started getting closer. His treating her kindly made her start liking him for real. Then the mysterious "Lacus", Miss Meer Campbell, true to character, gave him an eyeful. Because they are somewhat engaged...

-- TEXT MISSING--

...lots of reasons. If he didn't like Lunamaria he would've just let her be, but he had to cover up for Meer, which was a deadly wrong move. And just when he reaches this point where he has his hands very VERY full with this and that, Meyrin takes a good look at him and feels her heart move... Oh, Jesus.

While it's good that he's severed ties with ZAFT and gone back to Cagalli, he did so with Meyrin in tow, making viewers go "not again~!". It looks like Athrun's troubles won't be settled that easily. NT will be keeping a close eye on this Natural/Girl/Lady Killer.





HELP or HEEEELP!!


[1] Or, an unwavering gold. It's very shiny. My head hurts whenever I look at it. Come to think of it those new plugsuits are kind of flashy too. Cagalli and pink don't mix. Athrun'll do better in a deader shade of purple. [/end unsolicited fashion commentary]

[2] Back in Seed, Uzumi was once referred to as "Orb no Shishi" or "The Lion of Orb".

[3] Can't find a better term in English, sorry. But, basically their own happiness/state of contentment/etc.

[4] Literally 'clumsy', which isn't that near 'naive', but it makes sense.

[5] Literally 'to mention an extreme/extremity' (...)

[6] Literally 'they can go on fighting'.

[7] That was bad. Sorry. I'll try to rephrase later.

[8] Or 'act stern with', which still doesn't sound right. It's confusing; please read this for reference.

[9] Translated that literally.

[Freija]

that is alittle comfort, but still !!! DIE FUKADA!!!!

[SGLP]

With teh breakup, this allows both characters to become more strong IMO.

I'm not so sure. It says to me that they are still to weak to do what they really want. Cagalli is the only girl Athrun really cared about. I think that's what pisses me off about the situation. I guess in the end it doesn't really matter though. He's the type to do other things first and worry about a relationship later. Hopefully Meiryn will get shot or something sooner or later.

I liked the rest of the episode outside of that... well I'm not enjoying Shinn and Lunamaria. Something tells me Rey is going to handle her soon...

[darksage78]

Dullindal is slowly unmasking his true character. I hope he's a cool and collected psycho, rather than just all out nuts.
My thoughts exactly. I think Rau would've won if he didn't go insane. He did an awesome job slowly revealing himself to be the true puppeteer. I mean he even persuaded Patrick into doing a lot of things for him. I'm pretty sure he got Pat to make him Providence.

[Mindless]

OMFG! I'M SO LATE WITH PREVIEW! SORRY!

I just remembered: "Isn't there something I usually do each saturday?" -then I remember I always download the latest GSD episode and write a preview of it. Expect it later tonight.

Again, sorry for the delay thoes of you who can't download the episode.

[Jh1stgen]

I liked the rest of the episode outside of that... well I'm not enjoying Shinn and Lunamaria. Something tells me Rey is going to handle her soon...

U mean Rey pointing a gun @ Lun n pulling teh trigger? =D

LMAO @ Mindless ... i was wondering why there was no preview o.O

[darksage78]

Greatest moment in 45 XP
http://lorddjibril.ytmnd.com/

[Kira Yamato]

I think the fact that so many people are mad about the breakup of Asa/Cag breakup shows that, Fukuda wanted to add an element of surprise rather than something too predicatble. After all, I've heard complaints about how it's too predictable as well. In the end I don't see a problem with those two breaking up, it kind of makes things a bit more fresh for the series. And if they find some way to get back together, still not much of an issue, IMO.

[Chillin]

Greatest moment in 45 XP
http://lorddjibril.ytmnd.com/


ROFL! They just made that the funniest death in the GS series ever! Looks like I'll have to put Nicol's death down a notch.

[Akirou]

I dunno if it's just me, but I guess it comes with the AsuCaga fan pack.

They did not break up. I believe IF U WANT TO COMFIRM A REAL BREAK UP, Cagalli woulda given Athrun the ring back, or to Meyrin. I believe that would be the end of it. BUT SHE DIDNT, DID SHE?!

No, she kept the ring. Just because she wasnt wearing it, means nothing. I believe she was just trying to reassure Athrun that they both have more important things to think about, and that their relationship would just add more troubles for their lives in general. She's just being selfless. (dunno if I'm using the right word, but whatever)

And when Athrun said something like "I'm wont be hasty, we're both going down the same path" or whatever, it means (IMO) he's gonna wait for her.

They know each other too well, and the understanding between them is amazing.

Now, it may just be me, but by her KEEPING the ring, and TELLING Meyrin to take care of athrun FOR HER, and Athrun's kinda distressed face, IMO just significies how strong their relationship truly is.

[Jh1stgen]

Haha funny stuff, teh music matches perfectly to suit Djibril's death

It should've said " LOGO SUX @ Life."

[Chillin]

After looking at the preview again I just noticed Meyrin has a gun in her hand looking extremely scared. What is she going to do with that exactly? Her sister can't aim worth jack and I know damn well she can't either. Maybe figuratively speaking she wants to shoot Athrun right in the heart :smile-big

[3rdStrike]

Akriou. I LOVE YOU.

Well yea, I read from other forums the conversation that Kira and Athrun had. It's more like a break for them. Besides, Athrun probably understands that they all need time spent in ending the war, not the "I LOVE YOU" part. In addition, people from BANDAI said (read on somwhere with a SOURCE) they're probably going to make them take a break so that there can be a development for them in the next SEED sequel, which ends the SEED trilogy. Well, I'm putting my hopes for a SEED trilogy so that they can last, but of course without Fukada screwing around.

I guess we as AsuCaga fans didn't really have the time to analyse what's going on and just jumped to our conclusions that there's no more AsuCaga. HAHA

Either way, in my opinion, SEED is still better. Not because of AsuCaga but just everything. The plot, the action, the story and the characters. DESTINY is in lack of everything.

[Piekage]

Great episode. I agree with Akirou, and I still hold hope for AsuCaga. Also a good bit of ShinnLuna too. I'm extremely disappointed with the Destroy. A while back it was something to be feared. Now several are getting own like no tommorow. As for Mwu getting Akatsuki, can't say I mind too much. It still doesn't feel right, I mean Cagalli just got the thing. If it were earlier that'd be ok. But oh well.

[me_is_david]

lol wow the main topic of this episode seems to be Asuran and Cagalli breakup

I for one am not really disappointed lol. Surprised yes, Fukuda breaking up the most popular couple is like..... whoa lol.
However I never really did like the couple, probably because I never really liked Cagalli much =P

Anyway, I'll be one of the first to say holy shit Destiny, Legend and Impulse owned the fuck out of everything.
<3 Destiny, Legend, Blast

and Djibril got fucking owned..... I was like holy shiettt lol

and wtf lol Girty Lue FINALLY made its return only to be destroyed in 2 seconds by Rey >_>.
But damn his funnels are crazy lol. They look like they're just as good as Kira's

I can't shake my feeling of Lunamaria dying. Just because everything bad always seems happens to Shinn, its like a rule that he has to be angtsy and sad all the time lol.
Though Shinn X Luna is moving quite fast, its still nice =)

Mwu getting Akatsuki is a twist too, looks like Fukuda is starting to do whatever he wants lol and not basing all on fans.
Which means Shinn and Luna might live ... yay =)

Other than that looks like EA is out.
The whole moon base taken out by Minerva and the 3 suits
Maybe its not as stacked as we think lol. A discussion we had a while back. :S

[Jh1stgen]

Yeah that's sad how the EA got defeated ... and it's even more sad that they only had 3 DESTROYERS! WTF! It takes no brainer that if 5 Destroyers cannot beat ZAFT, what can 3 Destroyers do? *shakes head in disgust. I really wanted the EA to use the prototype gundams back in Seed and upgrade them with pilots that are more enhanced. I really was hoping that they would have some ultimate extended or w.e

[Chillin]

Which means Shinn and Luna might live ... yay =)

Sorry, but I have to call bullshit. Shinn and Lunamaria are very popular characters. Let's get it through our heads now that if both or one of them was to die, it wasn't because they were unpopular.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by thisbedavid:
Fukuda breaking up the most popular couple is like..... whoa lol.

They are not the most popular in Japan as far as I know...

Originally Posted by JH1stGen
Yeah that's sad how the EA got defeated ... and it's even more sad that they only had 3 DESTROYERS! WTF! It takes no brainer that if 5 Destroyers cannot beat ZAFT, what can 3 Destroyers do? *shakes head in disgust.
I am actually hoping that they will ally with the Clyne faction and Orb seeing that the Blue Cosmos extremists are now just a mere shadow of what they used to be.

Originally Posted by Chillin
Sorry, but I have to call bullshit. Shinn and Lunamaria are very popular characters. Let's get it through our heads now that if both or one of them was to die, it wasn't because they were unpopular
Yes, they are quite popular in Japan. Also I do not buy what people say that Fukuda kills a character based on popular seeing that Stellar was quite yet we all know what happened to her.

[DevilB0i]

Either kira or athrun out of these 2 one of them are going to die at the end of seed.

[xeleron]

Hello People :P
Is there a summary available for this episode????
So -> Cagalli and athrun broke up
moon base is basically taken over by zaft

Anything else??? Like whats happening with kira and lacus and stuff

thxs.. I can't dl any episode for another 2 week >< How many of you guys will still post here after GS is over?

[Wave]

Either kira or athrun out of these 2 one of them are going to die at the end of seed.
i doubt that =/
meer? yes
lunamaria? gawd i hope not
meyrin so that everyone can be happy again? possibily

but it wont be those two. it just cant work that way imo

[zeheero1982]

Can I ask where the HELL is Mindless' usually episode summary is at? I try finding it all day, but nothing. MINDLESS, PLEASE HURRY UP WITH THE SUMMARY ON EPISODE 45!!!!!!:laugh

[Kiba-kun]

Mwu DOES get Akatsuki, then. *does a victory dance* I was right all along!

[darksage78]

You know, since Akatsuki can reflect beams... Mwu might not die as easily defending the Archangel from a giant laser blast from Minerva XP And yes Destroys are very very dissappointing. It should take more effort to take one down. *watches Rey and Legend shoot two dragoons into the beam shield to pierce through Destroy's torso* Also in my mind its either gonna be Luna or Shinn to die. Maybe Luna dies and Shinn goes mental instead of becoming a vegetable like Camille O_O As for Athrun and Cagalli, they might have another chance in the third SEED series if they make one or its gonna be Athrun and Meyrin which I'm pretty fond of now. Meyrin is HOT with her hair down!

[ssouske]

well meyrin is kinda cute...:amuse but i still want cagalli... so i think i'll pin my hopes on akirou's theory... well cagalli did not return the ring right?!? so there is still a chance...

as for mindless, i think 1 of 2 things could have happened to him... 1 he totally forgot to make a summary and got lazy or 2 he had problems with his internet and had trouble in connecting to the net...:amuse mindless were still wating for your summary!!!:laugh

[3rdStrike]

You know, since Akatsuki can reflect beams... Mwu might not die as easily defending the Archangel from a giant laser blast from Minerva XP

HAHAHHAAHAHAHA. It's like as if he isn't allowed to die in DESTINY now. :laugh :laugh

well meyrin is kinda cute... but i still want cagalli... so i think i'll pin my hopes on akirou's theory... well cagalli did not return the ring right?!? so there is still a chance...


Agreed. Even Meyrin is awesome (only when she puts her hair down), I think Cagalli suits Athrun more. YES, the rrrringggg. Well still either way, Fukada making them having a break is just not retarded.

And MINDLESS already mentioned that he forgot to do the preview for this phase already. But either way, isn't Hiro-Fansubs a bit late?

[Kiba-kun]

I don't know why they're so late. Something about a bad raw. The channel is full of noobs who can't tell the difference between Char and Rey...I have a horrible feeling they're delaying it deliberatedly because of these idiots.

[Laughing@you]

I kinda of agree with the Athrun and cagalli break up. I mean what the hell is athrun gonna do or be if they decide to be together?....her maid?...

She is the commander in chief of an entire nation in which he has no influence what so ever. And if by any chance after they kill off dullindal Athrun decides to pick-up the leadership of Plant....what time will they have? Its a pretty down to earth decision if you ask me.

It is my understanding that GSD has being so slow because the whole series was focused on developing somewhat the maturity of each character after GS.

Thats my thinking now bash away!!!

[3rdStrike]

^Well with Cagalli being head of ORB and Athrun being head of PLANT gettin married. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to do the world. I mean wouldn't it be a great example for others that Coordinators can live peacefully with Naturals?

Sometimes, it's more than just about the time they spend with each other. :laugh

[Laughing@you]

^Well with Cagalli being head of ORB and Athrun being head of PLANT gettin married. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to do the world. I mean wouldn't it be a great example for others that Coordinators can live peacefully with Naturals?

Sometimes, it's more than just about the time they spend with each other. :laugh

Thats called a beneficial matrimony not a love one, which is the one they want.

I think:blink ?

[Akirou]

^Well with Cagalli being head of ORB and Athrun being head of PLANT gettin married. I don't see how it would be a bad thing to do the world. I mean wouldn't it be a great example for others that Coordinators can live peacefully with Naturals?

Sometimes, it's more than just about the time they spend with each other. :laugh


First off, I <3 U TOO! *huggles*

xD

Great in theory, but technically, no one would trust their opinions or decisions made in the office. I can forsee riots. :S

But hey, we can dream, cant we? I'd totally love to see them get married *i'd die the happiest bitch ever*.


But ya...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/Cosmos-A/CAPTURE.jpg

[lunamaria-chan]

MeerxAthrun, LacusxKira w/Mey in the Middle lol

[me_is_david]

They are not the most popular in Japan as far as I know...

Aren't they?
Unless they dropped since Destiny started lol
Because I'm pretty sure they were more popular than Kira X Lacus at the end of SEED
If not they come in at a close second anyway....btw I was talking about most popular SEED couple if you misundersood :laugh

but yes, anyone who dies now probably wont die based on popularity.
BUT I still think this only applies to the main four, I really can't see Fukuda killing off Kira,Lacus,Athrun or Cagalli, although there really isn't a reason for doing so now :laugh unless its a random death. Fukuda will kill off semi-popular characters, like Mwu but then again he brought him back so iuno lol. :huh

ah well I wanna see how this will go b/c I thought it would be some type of end battle between them 3 but EA is out so quick.
So, I guess that Gilly is the real main bad guy lol
I know he was, but I always thought there was a chance of him not being the main bad guy.

But damn, who else thinks Legend owns ^_^
probably just me.

[Laughing@you]

Anybody knows when the 44 sub is coming?.....Its pretty late by now!! and weird!!

[lunamaria-chan]

I posted it a while ago...

[Laughing@you]

Ok!! Thanks

*downloading*

[BattousaiMS]

Someone go wake mindless up, i am missing my weekly spoiler alerts in GSD !.!

[Chillin]

Aren't they?
Unless they dropped since Destiny started lol
Because I'm pretty sure they were more popular than Kira X Lacus at the end of SEED

In a magazine that took a poll of the most popular couplings I do believe KiraxLacus came out on top, and this was before Destiny.

But damn, who else thinks Legend owns ^_^
probably just me

Nope, I thought the same thing as of episode 43. Legend is freakin' awesome.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Well Fukuda has redeemed himself by a bit. I enjoyed how Shinn actually was able to keep his promise this time. And I hope he continues to do so. As for the upcoming battle between Legend and S.Freedom that we all know will show up, Legend may have a bit of an advantage. He has CLOSE range funnels. CLOSE RANGE!!! This puts Legend up like, two hundred marks in my book. And let me tell you, thats hard. But another advantage Kira has is his forthcoming Meteor System. That will make this even more intresting.

As for the rematch between Athrun and Shinn...I'm not quite sure. Before Shinn ran right into a favorite trap of mine set up by Athrun(The way he used his supior backpack system to get right up close to Shinn). But its probable he's learned from his mistakes and will do better. And also, is it just me ordoes Destiny handle better in space than it does on Earth? Because it PWN'd Major Destroy ASS in this one alot quicker than before.

[Piekage]

But damn, who else thinks Legend owns ^_^
probably just me.

No fuggin' way. Legend kicks ass.

I think after fight Destroy 3 times, Shinn and Co. have a better idea of how to fight the damn thing.

[3rdStrike]

Thats called a beneficial matrimony not a love one, which is the one they want.

I think:blink ?

Well Cagalli once decided to marry Yuna for the saving Orb so I don't see why she wouldn't. ALSO it's not like they don't LIKE each other... so... why not? :P

But I guess Athrun thinks that Cagalli no longers need protected, thus goes hunts down other chics such as Meyrin and Meer. I mean afterall, they tend to be the weakest female characters in GSD.

PROVIDENCE was awesome. LEGEND is double awesome, besides the fact that it isn't N-Jammer Canceller runned.
Well, I'm anticipated to see a funnel fight between Rey and Kira.

[Son_Pan]

No offense to anyone, but people in Wisconsin cant drive for shit. and its a pity i didnt see Oprah in Chicago. LOL!

ANYWAYz, looking forward to this episode. lol! its been a happy week, and a happy day in this happy month. hahah!!

i was wondering where mindless' summary was. i scanned the last few pages, and to my disappointment, i didnt see anything at all...

but yes! next episode is what now? i didnt get a chance to clickie on the linkie. LOL. oh god, im a fruit now.

[Freija]

No offense to anyone, but people in Wisconsin cant drive for shit. and its a pity i didnt see Oprah in Chicago. LOL!
WB S_P
ANYWAYz, looking forward to this episode. lol! its been a happy week, and a happy day in this happy month. hahah!!
ep sucks bigtime :/
i was wondering where mindless' summary was. i scanned the last few pages, and to my disappointment, i didnt see anything at all...
he wrote he forgot it and was gonna dload it 'right now' on saturday, but i guess he forgot it again XD
but yes! next episode is what now? i didnt get a chance to clickie on the linkie. LOL. oh god, im a fruit now.
next ep is "The song of truth" and hopefully Meer dies

[Chopstickx]

wbzzz S_P =D

btw, in Hiro's sub, right when Shinn said:
"You, the ship, and PLANT...I'll protect you all."

was i the only one who laughed at that part? right when he said that im like "ahh there goes Luna, Minerva, and PLANT. bye-byee." lol cuz i mean c'mon, everytime he says that he condems them to their death :|

[Chillin]

One day he should say he's going to protect himself or maybe even the entire universe and watch the universe mysteriously collapse into itself and implode.

[Chrno]

was i the only one who laughed at that part? right when he said that im like "ahh there goes Luna, Minerva, and PLANT. bye-byee." :|

lol glad I wasen't the only one who thought that XD; guess Minerva and everyone goes boom =/. Come to think of it tho..guess it the thought that counts.

[Mindless]

OK, sorry guys but no preview this weekend. I can't seem to find the energy to write a big preview and post pictures right now since I have a really, really big cold. My head hurts just by typing. But I just have to post this... the best moment of the episode:

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4417/youlantsurprised8kc.jpg

Youlant is like: "OH MY GOD! I DIDN'T THINK LUNA WAS A SLUT!"

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/8445/athrunsmiles6dg.jpg

And Athrun is like: "BISHOUNEN-POWER!".

(With the face Athrun has in that last picture, he could rival even Gilbert as a badguy...)

[lunamaria-chan]

They're becoming their counterparts from Fafner...lol

[ssouske]

lol mindless...:laugh so with that in mind, do you think we'll get Athrun's Counter Attack?:amuse

[Zellianne Zettle]

Hi it's my first time posting here...(yah right, just too ashamed to use Lunamaria's name now)
On a Random spoiler:
Rey's health is declining, Meer planned the trap only to foil it herself

[ssouske]

^
uhm... welcome to the forums...:amuse its always nice to see new people posting in this part of the forums...

just 1 question... where did you get that spoiler?:blink

[Zellianne Zettle]

It's me Luna! I got it from shouki... in animesuki

[darksage78]

O_O Awesome spoiler Zellianne! Links Rey back to Raw's illness... I hope they explain that though I'm betting it has something to do with he problems in cloning. And yes Athrun looks awesome as a villian. Athrun's Counterattack! WOOT!

[ssouske]

It's me Luna! I got it from shouki... in animesuki
hmmm... why in hell would you want to change your name?:blink anyway... chops did that too... right S_P?:amuse nice spoils there luna... but should i take that as authentic GSD spoil that will 100% surface in the TV? or should i take that as a random spoil that has a 50-50 chance?:blink

[Son_Pan]

LOL. Bishounen Power? hahah. wow//btw, his name isn't Youlan, its Vino. :huh

anyway... chops did that too... right S_P?::amuse

huh? u asking me?? lol. yes, she did change her username. it was got_noodles, before, in case anyone didn't know. which i doubt.

putting that aside, if what Zelliane said was true about Rey's health, i guess he's dying then.

[Donkey Show]

I hope Dullindal's space fortress turns into a giant Gundam. XD

[SGLP]

wbzzz S_P =D

btw, in Hiro's sub, right when Shinn said:
"You, the ship, and PLANT...I'll protect you all."

was i the only one who laughed at that part? right when he said that im like "ahh there goes Luna, Minerva, and PLANT. bye-byee." lol cuz i mean c'mon, everytime he says that he condems them to their death :|

I laughed and clapped when he said that. Right about now nothing would make me happier than to see the Minerva and it's entire crew go down. And I don't really know why.

[Chillin]

Uh oh, why do I all of a sudden think that Rey will hit the "Shishio" while fighting Kira.

Kira: Nothing is stronger than one's free will!
Rey: NO! Rey Za Burrel is stronger still! *bursts into flames while inside cockpit*

[3rdStrike]

Even though I don't like Minerva and wish death upon the crew, I really hope that Captain Tadlys stays alive at the end. After all, she's probably the most intelligent one around in Minerva.

EITHER WAY... this is off topic, but has anyone watched Tide Line Blue? Is it any good?

[Son_Pan]

This dude i know at this other forums is watching it. he says its alright. although, he said the main character resembles Edward Elric. lol. kinda true, too. :laugh

[Mindless]

Thanks for pointing the name out to me S_P.

And regarding the thing about Rey's declning health, I have to agree with Chillin. I can totally see something like:

Kira: "I have a world I want to protect!"

*charges at Legend with beamsabers and DRAGOONs*

Rey: "No! Wait! I am sick!"

Kira in Strike Freedom is about to strike Legend with all he has, super-newtype powers and all, but then, he hears a *cough* over the radio.

*Rey dies*

Kira: "What the f...!?" - "That's some f*****-up climax, just when I was about to get the good stuff going to up the sales."

Just imagine that...

[darksage78]

@ 3rdstrike So true, Arthur is a complete dimwit. Plus they're noobs compared to the Archangel and the Minerva looks like a giant shoe with wings.

@ Mindless That would be hilarious. Just watch Rey start straining in pain and calls a time out while he struggles to get his pills, if he has them XP

[Akirou]

The Scanned Page for the above set of spoilers.
Most of the important ones are already translated. I'll look through whether there are any thing else that wasn't mentioned.

Sever Keywords from Magazine PUSH!
I'll do a translation whenever possible... It contains some pointers leading up to the ending (more of recaps mostly, with few spoilers here and there)

There are only few episodes left until the finale. The conflict between naturals and coordinators, which began in C.E. 71, will come to an end once more. What kind of ending will be in store for the world as well as Shinn, Kira, and Athrun? We will use these unsolved keywords as foundation, and speculate the story developments leading up to the finale.

Seven Keywords are:
1. Destiny Plan
2. Neo and Mwu
3. Rey za Barrel
4. The Two Utahime (Songstress)
5. To Space
6. The Final Duel ~ Joint Force and Opposition
7. The Women's Decision and Love's Whereabout

1. Destiny Plan
What we need to know about more, is the true intention of Chairman Dullindal!

Dullindal's belief isn't neccessary the absolute evil, so the Kira and Co. trying to stop him isn't neccessary the absolute good either. The common citizen, who doesn't do anything and doesn't try to prevent war, might actulaly be the real problem.

This plan proposed by Dullindal has been implemented gradually. By obtaining victory in the battle against the absolute evil Logos, Dullindal has become the most powerful man in the world. Perhaps now nearly everyone would believe him, the one who defeated the destructive Logos, as well as follow him. If everything follows Dullindal's wishes like now, with those opposing him being annilated, Dullindal would become the absolute ruler of the world. The war-torn society would be united under the single ideal proposed by the Messiah... Isn't this the truth about Destiny Plan? Lacus became aware of this truth, and set out to stop Dullindal. However, Dullindal's power has grown too powerful. Even the Songstress who used to enjoy great support from the people would have trouble trying to shake his footing. In order to build a war-less world, one must fight to unite the world. While Dullindal's actions are filled with conflicts, to the human race, who lack the ability to prevent wars, this might be the last and only way. In the face of the smiling goddess, who will survive in the end...


2. Neo and Mwu
Because I'm the man who can make the impossible possible.

Piloting Skygrasper, and saying this phrase... Even if you're not Murrue, you'd be moved to tears.

Fallen in the previous war, piloting MA, is Murrue's lover, Mwu. Masked officer in charge of the special unit of EA, Neo. There is no doubt the two are the same person.
However, why is Mwu, presumed dead, is alive, and commanding battle units for the EA? Neo doesn't have Mwu's memory. Is this the result of memory modification? The answer lies deep within the mist.
Same as the war before, the world now filled with extrem confusion. For the warrior who had walked two different lives, where would his destiny head for? Having continued his relationship with Murrue, would Neo every recover Mwu's memory before the finale!?


０３　レイ・ザ・バレル
無口な敏腕パイロットだったレイは、デュランダルのためにシンを精神的に取り込み思いのままに操ろうとして いる。
その豹変振りには戸惑いさえも感じるが、彼の行動のすべてはデュランダルの目的を支え
彼の目的を邪魔するものを排除することに一貫しているのは明白。
その理由は未だ明かされていないが、推察することはできる。
幼いレイをつれたクルーゼがデュランダルに会うという回想シーンは、レイがクルーゼに近い存在だということ を示している。
そして、強化人間開発施設でレイが倒れたことは、かつて自らが置かれていた状況を思い出し、ショックを受け たものと思われる。
となるとレイは、クルーゼがデュランダルと共通の目的のために生み出したクローンなのだろうか ？

０４、二人の歌姫
ついにモニター越しに対決を果たしたラクスとミーア
だがそれは勝負とよべるようなものにはならあず、ラクスの前にミーアが逃げ去るという形に収ま った。
この対決を経て、遂に自らの意思を世界に伝えたラクスと
利用価値が無くなった邪魔者としてデュランダルに危険視されるミーア。
同じ顔をもつ二人の少女が共に手を取ることはあるのだろうか？
すべてはミーアの行動にかかっている。

０５　宇宙へ
宇宙で端を発した戦いは、宇宙でのみ終息しうる。
シンが、キラが、アスランが、それぞれの正義を求めて宇宙に上がった。
ガンダムシリーズの伝統である宇宙での最終決戦は目前だ！！！
有限の大地から無限の広がりを持つ空間へ飛び立つことで、逆にそれぞれの正義、
理想、そして愛憎が濃縮されていく。
デュランダルの野望は実現するのか。シンの目覚めはあるのか。宇宙のみが知る。

０６　
最終決戦を（無責任な立場から）予想してみよう。
まずシンの覚醒は必至。王道としては、３度守るべきものを失ったシンが
悲劇の中で倒すべき敵の正体を知る、というものか。
そしてラクスの演説に導かれるように、皆がラクスの旗の下にデュランダルに挑む。
というのは都合よすぎるだろうか。
何にせよ、シンがレイの呪縛を逃れた時、誰にも見せたことのない、真の力を発揮するだろう。

０７　女性たちの決断と愛の行方
女性５名
継ぐ者　カガリ・ユラ・アスハ
理想を唱え続けてきたカガリに力が託された。
ウズミの黄金の意思アカツキだ。
ウズミの意思を知った彼女は、今は恋よりも国のため、世界のための戦いをと、
アスランとの約束の指輪を外し、世界を良き方向へと導くためにすべてを費やすことを決意する。
だがそれは二人の絆が崩れ去ったという意味ではない。
確かな形が無くても、互いを信じられる・・・・
未完成ながら、キラとラクスの揺るがない愛に近づきつつあるのかもしれない

進藤さんのコメント「決別の際、ある意味ひどいなぁっていうようなぶった切り方をして別れるんですけど、そ の後彼女は人知れず泣いちゃうんですよねぇ・・・・」
あと進藤さんのインタで先ほどのつづきで「もう一点、指輪をどうすんだろう・・・・。返すのか な？
外して持っているのかな？個人的にとても気になるんですよ（笑）」というのもありました。
でもカガリは進藤さんのインタで宇宙には上がらないようでした。
「最終回までにもう一度くらい出る機会があるのかな？全世界に向けてやらなきゃいけないことがあると思うの で｣とのことでした。

与える者 ラクス　
デュランダルと対をなす思想的なリーダーとして蘇るラクス。
また彼女は、キラとアスランに新たなる力を与え、彼らを本来の道へ導く役割を果たした。
キラとの絆が揺がないまま彼女はカガリのような決意をすることなく、
自然と世界のために動こうとしている。

戦う者　ルナマリア・ホーク
妹の死を契機に、インパルスを駆りロゴスを倒すことを誓ったルナ。
悲しみを共有するシンと傷のなめあいのような関係を重ねる彼女は、まだ妹メイリンの生存を知ら ない。
妹が未だアスランと行動をともにしていると知った時、戦士として取る行動とは？
コメントの最後に「今回シンとは傷の舐めあいみたいな形から始まって、勢いでくっついてしまった感じですが 、
今後は本当の意味で支えあえる、良い関係を築いて欲しいな。そんな二人を暖かい目で見守りながら応援してく ださい。」
あとはただシンがルナを守ることに固執しているようなことは書いてありました。

同化する者　ミーア・キャンベル
デュランダルの思想などはどうでもよかったのかもしれない。
スポットライトを浴び続けたかっただけだった。
だが、本物のラクスが放つ光は、彼女に影であることを突きつける。
命を狙われるミーアが、再び脚光を浴びようとするする時、どうする！？

しなやかな者　メイリン・ホーク
綿毛が風に流されるように、運命に翻弄され、成り行きでアスランとともにザフト軍を脱走したメ イリン。
そんな彼女の心の支えは、アスランのみだ。
カガリから託された想いに、どういう形で応えていくのだろうか。
また敵味方となった姉ルナとの再会はあるのか？
折笠さんインタで・・・
もともとアスランにでき上がった男性に対する憧れ～で生きるか死ぬかっていう究極のところまで来てしまった ときに、それが愛情に変わったのかな？と思います。
でも意外と勢い、それだけかもしれません。


特集のもう一人の僕へのメッセージからアスランの部分のところ
決意を決めたアスランの傍らには、ラクスから託された新しいＭＳの姿が。
その頃、自分が新しい道を選んだように、愛すべきカガリも新たな道を選んでいた。
カガリの選択を知った時、アスランのとる行動とは？
彼女がどんな決断を下してもきっとアスランのことだ、暖かく見守っていくに違いない。

シン　
大切な人達を目の前で失っていったシンは、己の無力さ怒りに変え刃を振るう。
怒りで周りが見えなくなっているシンは、二コルやトールを失い、感情だけで戦ってしまった
かつてのキラとアスランに似ている。
守ることそれが彼の目的であり支えとなってる。そして妹を失いステラさえも失った彼はいま、
ルナマリアを守ることに固執している。守るために戦うそれ自体は誰に非難されるものでもない。
だが今の彼は、守ることで現実から目をそらしてしまっている。
戦いに勝利したとき、守られるべき人が守られていたのか、そのことを考えてないからだ。
本当に守るべきは、目の前の誰かではなく世界そのものなのだ。
それに気づいたそのときこそ、シンの本当の戦いが始まる！！
シンの目覚めはそれほど遠くないと、期待したい

キラ
一度は表舞台から姿を消し、そして再び日の当たる場所へと舞い戻ったキラ。
かつての戦いで達観したのか、彼の心には揺ぎがあまり見られない。
ラクス暗殺の首謀者と思われるデュランダルをかばうアスランと対面しようと、
シンというかつての自分のような純真さをもったコーディネーターが立ちふさがろうとも彼の考えは一貫してい る。
真に平和を乱すものは誰か。何とどう戦うことで平和が取り戻せるのか・・・。
もちろん、心情的な動揺や、混乱することもあったが、それを押し殺し戦いを継続できるだけの強さをキラは身 につけてしまったようだ。



Not super sure if those are official yet, so I'ma post it over here.

[Laughing@you]

The Scanned Page for the above set of spoilers.
Most of the important ones are already translated. I'll look through whether there are any thing else that wasn't mentioned.

Sever Keywords from Magazine PUSH!
I'll do a translation whenever possible... It contains some pointers leading up to the ending (more of recaps mostly, with few spoilers here and there)

There are only few episodes left until the finale. The conflict between naturals and coordinators, which began in C.E. 71, will come to an end once more. What kind of ending will be in store for the world as well as Shinn, Kira, and Athrun? We will use these unsolved keywords as foundation, and speculate the story developments leading up to the finale.

Seven Keywords are:
1. Destiny Plan
2. Neo and Mwu
3. Rey za Barrel
4. The Two Utahime (Songstress)
5. To Space
6. The Final Duel ~ Joint Force and Opposition
7. The Women's Decision and Love's Whereabout

1. Destiny Plan
What we need to know about more, is the true intention of Chairman Dullindal!

Dullindal's belief isn't neccessary the absolute evil, so the Kira and Co. trying to stop him isn't neccessary the absolute good either. The common citizen, who doesn't do anything and doesn't try to prevent war, might actulaly be the real problem.

This plan proposed by Dullindal has been implemented gradually. By obtaining victory in the battle against the absolute evil Logos, Dullindal has become the most powerful man in the world. Perhaps now nearly everyone would believe him, the one who defeated the destructive Logos, as well as follow him. If everything follows Dullindal's wishes like now, with those opposing him being annilated, Dullindal would become the absolute ruler of the world. The war-torn society would be united under the single ideal proposed by the Messiah... Isn't this the truth about Destiny Plan? Lacus became aware of this truth, and set out to stop Dullindal. However, Dullindal's power has grown too powerful. Even the Songstress who used to enjoy great support from the people would have trouble trying to shake his footing. In order to build a war-less world, one must fight to unite the world. While Dullindal's actions are filled with conflicts, to the human race, who lack the ability to prevent wars, this might be the last and only way. In the face of the smiling goddess, who will survive in the end...


2. Neo and Mwu
Because I'm the man who can make the impossible possible.

Piloting Skygrasper, and saying this phrase... Even if you're not Murrue, you'd be moved to tears.

Fallen in the previous war, piloting MA, is Murrue's lover, Mwu. Masked officer in charge of the special unit of EA, Neo. There is no doubt the two are the same person.
However, why is Mwu, presumed dead, is alive, and commanding battle units for the EA? Neo doesn't have Mwu's memory. Is this the result of memory modification? The answer lies deep within the mist.
Same as the war before, the world now filled with extrem confusion. For the warrior who had walked two different lives, where would his destiny head for? Having continued his relationship with Murrue, would Neo every recover Mwu's memory before the finale!?


０３　レイ・ザ・バレル
無口な敏腕パイロットだったレイは、デュランダルのためにシンを精神的に取り込み思いのままに操ろうとして いる。
その豹変振りには戸惑いさえも感じるが、彼の行動のすべてはデュランダルの目的を支え
彼の目的を邪魔するものを排除することに一貫しているのは明白。
その理由は未だ明かされていないが、推察することはできる。
幼いレイをつれたクルーゼがデュランダルに会うという回想シーンは、レイがクルーゼに近い存在だということ を示している。
そして、強化人間開発施設でレイが倒れたことは、かつて自らが置かれていた状況を思い出し、ショックを受け たものと思われる。
となるとレイは、クルーゼがデュランダルと共通の目的のために生み出したクローンなのだろうか ？

０４、二人の歌姫
ついにモニター越しに対決を果たしたラクスとミーア
だがそれは勝負とよべるようなものにはならあず、ラクスの前にミーアが逃げ去るという形に収ま った。
この対決を経て、遂に自らの意思を世界に伝えたラクスと
利用価値が無くなった邪魔者としてデュランダルに危険視されるミーア。
同じ顔をもつ二人の少女が共に手を取ることはあるのだろうか？
すべてはミーアの行動にかかっている。

０５　宇宙へ
宇宙で端を発した戦いは、宇宙でのみ終息しうる。
シンが、キラが、アスランが、それぞれの正義を求めて宇宙に上がった。
ガンダムシリーズの伝統である宇宙での最終決戦は目前だ！！！
有限の大地から無限の広がりを持つ空間へ飛び立つことで、逆にそれぞれの正義、
理想、そして愛憎が濃縮されていく。
デュランダルの野望は実現するのか。シンの目覚めはあるのか。宇宙のみが知る。

０６　
最終決戦を（無責任な立場から）予想してみよう。
まずシンの覚醒は必至。王道としては、３度守るべきものを失ったシンが
悲劇の中で倒すべき敵の正体を知る、というものか。
そしてラクスの演説に導かれるように、皆がラクスの旗の下にデュランダルに挑む。
というのは都合よすぎるだろうか。
何にせよ、シンがレイの呪縛を逃れた時、誰にも見せたことのない、真の力を発揮するだろう。

０７　女性たちの決断と愛の行方
女性５名
継ぐ者　カガリ・ユラ・アスハ
理想を唱え続けてきたカガリに力が託された。
ウズミの黄金の意思アカツキだ。
ウズミの意思を知った彼女は、今は恋よりも国のため、世界のための戦いをと、
アスランとの約束の指輪を外し、世界を良き方向へと導くためにすべてを費やすことを決意する。
だがそれは二人の絆が崩れ去ったという意味ではない。
確かな形が無くても、互いを信じられる・・・・
未完成ながら、キラとラクスの揺るがない愛に近づきつつあるのかもしれない

進藤さんのコメント「決別の際、ある意味ひどいなぁっていうようなぶった切り方をして別れるんですけど、そ の後彼女は人知れず泣いちゃうんですよねぇ・・・・」
あと進藤さんのインタで先ほどのつづきで「もう一点、指輪をどうすんだろう・・・・。返すのか な？
外して持っているのかな？個人的にとても気になるんですよ（笑）」というのもありました。
でもカガリは進藤さんのインタで宇宙には上がらないようでした。
「最終回までにもう一度くらい出る機会があるのかな？全世界に向けてやらなきゃいけないことがあると思うの で｣とのことでした。

与える者 ラクス　
デュランダルと対をなす思想的なリーダーとして蘇るラクス。
また彼女は、キラとアスランに新たなる力を与え、彼らを本来の道へ導く役割を果たした。
キラとの絆が揺がないまま彼女はカガリのような決意をすることなく、
自然と世界のために動こうとしている。

戦う者　ルナマリア・ホーク
妹の死を契機に、インパルスを駆りロゴスを倒すことを誓ったルナ。
悲しみを共有するシンと傷のなめあいのような関係を重ねる彼女は、まだ妹メイリンの生存を知ら ない。
妹が未だアスランと行動をともにしていると知った時、戦士として取る行動とは？
コメントの最後に「今回シンとは傷の舐めあいみたいな形から始まって、勢いでくっついてしまった感じですが 、
今後は本当の意味で支えあえる、良い関係を築いて欲しいな。そんな二人を暖かい目で見守りながら応援してく ださい。」
あとはただシンがルナを守ることに固執しているようなことは書いてありました。

同化する者　ミーア・キャンベル
デュランダルの思想などはどうでもよかったのかもしれない。
スポットライトを浴び続けたかっただけだった。
だが、本物のラクスが放つ光は、彼女に影であることを突きつける。
命を狙われるミーアが、再び脚光を浴びようとするする時、どうする！？

しなやかな者　メイリン・ホーク
綿毛が風に流されるように、運命に翻弄され、成り行きでアスランとともにザフト軍を脱走したメ イリン。
そんな彼女の心の支えは、アスランのみだ。
カガリから託された想いに、どういう形で応えていくのだろうか。
また敵味方となった姉ルナとの再会はあるのか？
折笠さんインタで・・・
もともとアスランにでき上がった男性に対する憧れ～で生きるか死ぬかっていう究極のところまで来てしまった ときに、それが愛情に変わったのかな？と思います。
でも意外と勢い、それだけかもしれません。


特集のもう一人の僕へのメッセージからアスランの部分のところ
決意を決めたアスランの傍らには、ラクスから託された新しいＭＳの姿が。
その頃、自分が新しい道を選んだように、愛すべきカガリも新たな道を選んでいた。
カガリの選択を知った時、アスランのとる行動とは？
彼女がどんな決断を下してもきっとアスランのことだ、暖かく見守っていくに違いない。

シン　
大切な人達を目の前で失っていったシンは、己の無力さ怒りに変え刃を振るう。
怒りで周りが見えなくなっているシンは、二コルやトールを失い、感情だけで戦ってしまった
かつてのキラとアスランに似ている。
守ることそれが彼の目的であり支えとなってる。そして妹を失いステラさえも失った彼はいま、
ルナマリアを守ることに固執している。守るために戦うそれ自体は誰に非難されるものでもない。
だが今の彼は、守ることで現実から目をそらしてしまっている。
戦いに勝利したとき、守られるべき人が守られていたのか、そのことを考えてないからだ。
本当に守るべきは、目の前の誰かではなく世界そのものなのだ。
それに気づいたそのときこそ、シンの本当の戦いが始まる！！
シンの目覚めはそれほど遠くないと、期待したい

キラ
一度は表舞台から姿を消し、そして再び日の当たる場所へと舞い戻ったキラ。
かつての戦いで達観したのか、彼の心には揺ぎがあまり見られない。
ラクス暗殺の首謀者と思われるデュランダルをかばうアスランと対面しようと、
シンというかつての自分のような純真さをもったコーディネーターが立ちふさがろうとも彼の考えは一貫してい る。
真に平和を乱すものは誰か。何とどう戦うことで平和が取り戻せるのか・・・。
もちろん、心情的な動揺や、混乱することもあったが、それを押し殺し戦いを継続できるだけの強さをキラは身 につけてしまったようだ。



Not super sure if those are official yet, so I'ma post it over here.

So the heroes are fighting to overthow a dictator?

Or is this a fight like in Angel that an evil god was providing hapiness and unity to the world at the cost of a few humans that she had to eat...Periodically?

Now i'm lost!!!!

Aren't heroes supposed to fight for the right side, not the shady side?

Or are our heroes just creating chaos at the mist of peace?....

Bash away!!!

[Zellianne Zettle]

Akirou, they're as official as the sun rising from the east. Those are the spoilers shouki posted earlier

[Jh1stgen]

I hope Dullindal's space fortress turns into a giant Gundam. XD

They r rumors swaying that Gill will pilot "Fortune." And the name "Fortune" sounds giagantic. I can definitly see teh fortress turn into a Gundam =)

[Jujubie]

Yay so my wishes of Dullindal piloting some colony-sized Gundam might come true =D

If what has been said about Destiny Plan is true, then I guess Dullindal and Lacus have same goal, but very opposing methods. To bring peace to the world Dullindal trades everyone's freedom and minds so that they cannot possibly cause chaos. But for these methods, Lacus will fight to preserve everyone's freedom. She will not sacrifice individuality for peace. Dullindal will. The only thing on my mind is whether Shinn chooses Dullindal's resolution or Lacus' resolution. Only couple episodes will tell.

[staradderdragoon]

whoa. athrun looks really weird in that pic. im dL the hiro sub now. there isnt a direct dL of it out?

[ssouske]

Yay so my wishes of Dullindal piloting some colony-sized Gundam might come true =D
lol that would be one freakin huge gundam...:laugh imagine a gundam as big as a colony... it would make destroy look like a huge beetle/cockroach... and all the regular MS and gundams will look like flies...:laugh

[staradderdragoon]

yeah, but it would be so slow.

[Jh1stgen]

Yeah, but if it has PS ... OMFG nothing will scratch it! Genesis was impossible to destroy, it had to be destroyed within by a nuclear explosion

[darksage78]

PS isn't all that great anymore considering most MS carry around beam weapons now. Plus ZAFT has a portable small scaled version of Genesis. They could always highjack one of them and fire it at the target rather than getting either Freedom or Justice to ignite a nuclear explosion. Destiny and Legend aren't nuke powered are they? I'm pretty sure they're not.

[Jh1stgen]

If Fortune is indeed the final antagonist MS .. it should be equipped with a NJ. Why? Because Province was introduced almost the end of the serie and was the final antagonist MS equipped with NJ. So i dont see why Fortune cant be an exception ...

Genesis had PS and with that size ... it was impossible to destroy it with beams or whatever. So that same luck or ironically enuff "fortune" will be applied to the MS FORTUNE

Assuming that Fortune is that of the size of a colony... it will have similar characteristic with Genesis; therefore exterior attacks is futile. And If Fortune is a Gundam, how on earth can they penetrate thru like Genesis? Even that, if it's run by a nuclear reactor ... it will leave a heck of a dmg if it's destroyed

Understand that "IF" Fortune even exist, and it is that fortress of ZAFT .. but unlikely, so essestially a fan theory or whatever

That small version of Genensis dont have PS. SO it CAN be easily destroyed

And Legend+Destiny arent equipped with NJ

[Rakumaru]

Ya that seems a little to unreasonable for this series. I think there will be some kind of secret weapon but nothing on that scale. Btw that Shinn and Luna scene in 45 was so romantic... Spinning with eachother through the air ^^

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by mpmorph:
So the heroes are fighting to overthow a dictator?
If the heroes you speak are Kira, Lacus, Athrun etc. Then the only reason they fight is because they want peace on their terms. In my opinion they can be happy living under the Destiny Plan. It is just that they want their desires to come true which most likely will not be fulfilled under the Destiny Plan.
Originally Posted by mpmorph:
Or is this a fight like in Angel that an evil god was providing hapiness and unity to the world at the cost of a few humans that she had to eat...Periodically?
This has always been the case. We sacrifice something for certain benefits.

Originally Posted by Jujubie:
To bring peace to the world Dullindal trades everyone's freedom and minds so that they cannot possibly cause chaos.
Depends what kind of freedom he is asking everyone to sacrifice. I do doubt that Dullindal is planning to control how everyone thinks and stopping small conflicts.

Originally Posted by Jujubie:
Lacus will fight to preserve everyone's freedom. She will not sacrifice individuality for peace. Dullindal will.
They are both asking people to sacrifice something in order to gain certain benefits. The only question here will be "Is there a point where the sacrifice is too much that no amount of benefit will justify it?"

[Jujubie]

As I said, if rumors are true and the Destiny Plan is similar to Brave New World, then people will be truly destined into a position which they cannot escape from through DNA manipulation. That is losing all free will. I would not want that. Some might, so would you? And what does Lacus ask the people to sacrifice? In war, you always have to have men to fight battles and possibly die.

[Kiba-kun]

Anyone else spotted how the current situation in GSD could be controversially applied to today's world?

This is just a hunch, but the way Dullindal responded to the act of terroism was EXACTLY the same way that Bush did, and he even used some of the same kind of language Bush did - for example, "we're not fighting a centralized army" and "these aren't the kind of people you can negotiate with". The fact that he used the english word "terroist" is what swings it; I honestly think that the writers of GSD are trying to tell us something here.

[Jh1stgen]

1 word ... politics
pfft

[Kiba-kun]

^Spam....

Another thing, who piloted that black Zaku Warrior with red splashs all over it? It looked awesome. Pic:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/silver_duelist/des/4508.jpg

[ssouske]

^Spam....

Another thing, who piloted that black Zaku Warrior with red splashs all over it? It looked awesome. Pic:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/silver_duelist/des/4508.jpg

i think that is dearka... or not... hmmm... i think i'll need to rewatch that scene to see who that really is... but if its not dearka, it must be shiho... or some leet guy in the astray manga...

EDIT: OOPS i did not notice that that thing was a warrior... and dearka had a phantom right? hmmm... maybe shiho, or a nameless zaft ace... something like heine during the time they fired the neutron stampeder... heine was not yet introduced that time and and an orange phantom began flying all over space and it almost got more screen time than dearka and yzak...:amuse

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Jujubie:
As I said, if rumors are true and the Destiny Plan is similar to Brave New World, then people will be truly destined into a position which they cannot escape from through DNA manipulation. That is losing all free will.
How so? As far as I know in the Brave New World the only thing pre-determined is your profession and you are given the freedom to do what you want on your free time.

However if the Destiny Plan is what you speak of, then I see no reason for the Clyne faction to even try and stop Dullindal seeing as he will only make a fool out of himself unless of course he has DG cells or something like that. I really do doubt Dullindal is that stupid as to think he can somehow control people's actions and thoughts.

As far as I can get from GSD. Destiny Plan makes people take pre-determined jobs instead of pre-determining people's every actions.

Originally Posted by Kiba-kun:
Anyone else spotted how the current situation in GSD could be controversially applied to today's world?
Well this was one of the aims of the show. Fukuda said he wanted to incorporate events in the global political situation.

[Wave]

^Spam....

Another thing, who piloted that black Zaku Warrior with red splashs all over it? It looked awesome. Pic:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/silver_duelist/des/4508.jpg
has to be a nobody or more astray appearing for some reason. hell even that UWMF/S-1 GINN WASP Type was shown afterall so yer

[darksage78]

I'm pretty sure the reason Dullindal wants to implement the Destiny Plan wasn't only just to rid humanity of war. I think that he wanted his life to go a certain way. Like being with Talia. But that didn't happen, I'm pretty sure that there's something in it for him too.

[Jh1stgen]

That pilot is someone from Destiny Astray i believe ...

And i bet u never spammed b4 right? :wink

[me_is_david]

if i recall weren't there a buncha zaku's with orange/red shoulder's like that one.
it could be Shiho if they decide to finally stick her in.
If its not then its probably just some random astray MS pilot they have.

and whatever happened to the purple phantom wayyyyy back in early episodes lol

[Mindless]

I believe that is some Destiny Astray suit, because it's not up on MAHQ, and they have most of the known MSVs and Astray suits.

And listen to this... I've finally taken a big step.

I ordered my first gundam models today from HLJ (HobbyLink Japan, fo thoes of you who didn't know). I ordered myself a MG 1/100 Zeta Gundam and a MG 1/100 Nu Gundam, plus some decals for the Zeta Gundam and two gundam markers.

Looking forward to getting the package in my mail in 2 weeks or so. :smile-big

[3rdStrike]

However if the Destiny Plan is what you speak of, then I see no reason for the Clyne faction to even try and stop Dullindal seeing as he will only make a fool out of himself unless of course he has DG cells or something like that. I really do doubt Dullindal is that stupid as to think he can somehow control people's actions and thoughts.

As far as I can get from GSD. Destiny Plan makes people take pre-determined jobs instead of pre-determining people's every actions.



Well, if you have free will then you can simply deny your pre-determined job. Example, you are determined to be a druck triver, but your will and desire doesn't want to be a truck driver... then this so called pre-determined job is pretty useless is it? Besides, the crew on AA did mention about fate and GSD has been talking about personal desire all along... so really I think that DESTINY PLAN does have something to do with controlling people's actions.

[ssouske]

I believe that is some Destiny Astray suit, because it's not up on MAHQ, and they have most of the known MSVs and Astray suits.

And listen to this... I've finally taken a big step.

I ordered my first gundam models today from HLJ (HobbyLink Japan, fo thoes of you who didn't know). I ordered myself a MG 1/100 Zeta Gundam and a MG 1/100 Nu Gundam, plus some decals for the Zeta Gundam and two gundam markers.

Looking forward to getting the package in my mail in 2 weeks or so. :smile-big
ooohhh... so were gonna see more of mindless in the model thread... yay more people there! im looking forward to see your zeta and nu...:amuse

[Jh1stgen]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/Heine_Westenfluss/Picture049.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/Heine_Westenfluss/Picture050.jpg

Sorta similar arent they?

[BattousaiMS]

If the heroes you speak are Kira, Lacus, Athrun etc. Then the only reason they fight is because they want peace on their terms. In my opinion they can be happy living under the Destiny Plan. It is just that they want their desires to come true which most likely will not be fulfilled under the Destiny Plan.
This has always been the case. We sacrifice something for certain benefits.
Depends what kind of freedom he is asking everyone to sacrifice. I do doubt that Dullindal is planning to control how everyone thinks and stopping small conflicts.
They are both asking people to sacrifice something in order to gain certain benefits. The only question here will be "Is there a point where the sacrifice is too much that no amount of benefit will justify it?"

How so? As far as I know in the Brave New World the only thing pre-determined is your profession and you are given the freedom to do what you want on your free time.
However if the Destiny Plan is what you speak of, then I see no reason for the Clyne faction to even try and stop Dullindal seeing as he will only make a fool out of himself unless of course he has DG cells or something like that. I really do doubt Dullindal is that stupid as to think he can somehow control people's actions and thoughts.
As far as I can get from GSD. Destiny Plan makes people take pre-determined jobs instead of pre-determining people's every actions.


You do not understand the predetermined world. It's a world where you are a slave of a computer, kinda like the Matrix but here it's the humans that doing it to themselves.

How can that world be better, if you can't do or be who you desire? Where you are forced to a job you may not like just because some genetic analyzing computer thinks your genes are only good enough to be a janitor? There is no freedom in the world, you get to choose nothing concerning your future. Your basically a robot.

It's not a world you wish to live in, trust me. No senbile intelligent being would accept freedom on such terms. Because if you do you just lost what makes you a human and became an android.

[Son_Pan]

I'd hardly consider what JH said was spam, when you were the one tugging on the Politics issue, Kiba. Good thing the subject was changed, or we could have been seeing more of the War on Terrorism stuff.

ANYWAY. what exactly is the "Destiny Plan" can someone explain it in terms i can understand? haha.

[me_is_david]

off-topic/spam whatever lol

If anyone wants to know, Gundam SEED Destiny has a US release date of late 2005/early 2006.
according to ANN and Newtype so yeah
we'll probably be seeing Vol.1 around that time.
if anyone was curious. lol


as for Destiny plan, I duno I haven't watched a full episode of GSD since 35 ^_^;;
I've gotten lazy, and been watching other stuff like *(points to new avatar and sig)* these :)

[Mindless]

I duno I haven't watched a full episode of GSD since 35 ^_^;;
I've gotten lazy, and been watching other stuff like *(points to new avatar and sig)* these :)

TRAITOR! :mad

(just kidding)

[Jujubie]

Haha Mindless. Thanks for explaining BatMS.

Do you guys think Shinn will side with Dullindal's Destiny Plan or Lacus' resolution?

[BattousaiMS]

Destiny plan is a system where every human is assigned to a predestined life from his birth. So basically it's a life without destiny.

When you are born, your genetic attributes will tell Gil (or a super computer, let's say after Gil passes away) what kind a job is suited for you, who you should marry, where should you work and so on. Then you life is put trough those. To further limit the cause of overpopulation or useless humans, you can be put to death from birth if there is to many of your category.

Now imagine that they only need 1000 janitors, you just happen to be the 1001th born with a predicted job of janitor. You became a hassle, and you will be eliminated so that the system stays balanced. Basically it's sorta like a passive mass genocide. Also your future is the one determined by your genetic code, you cannot choose anything else.

Sure the coordinators have been doing this for quite some time, but this is the hardcore version, where not only they build you as they wish, but they also plan your whole future and if you turn out to be a defect (let's the that 1001th janitor) your are eliminated.

This is why, Gil doesn't like Kira & Lacus and to some extent Athrun. They defied their predestined. Lacus was to be married to Athrun, but she went for Kira. Athrun was to be married with Lacus, but he prefered Cagalli. Lacus was supposed to be the passive cheergirl, but she became a determinted leader etc...

This is why Gil turned Meer into Lacus and was trying to hook her to Athrun. But that failed, he tried to separate Kira from Lacus, because he considers Lacus a defect. He failed in that too. Now he is simply trying to find a way to gain the authority over all people. Djibril was a fool he played well into his hand. By attacking plant he indirectly supported Gil, that's why Gil said thank you in the end. He just had lost a large number of supporters with the real Lacus appearing, Djibril just pushed them back into his hands.

Shinn at the moment is a pawn and a fool (the biggest one out there). He is possibly the worst blue/red/white gundam pilot in the history of Gundams, even Heero has more intelligence then him. The guy was a robot, but atleast he knew when he was played and kicked back their butts when he got the chance. Shinn on the other hads goes deeper into Gil's pocket.

I sincerly hope he dies in the end, maybe something like jumping infront of Gil's Messiah beam and sacrifice himself for being such a fool. That would be great. Then Athrun can become angsty in SEED 3 if say Earth and Plant still didn't learn their lesson :laugh.

[Chillin]

ROFL! Messiah beam?! Ah, that's just the funniest thing I've heard in a while.

Do you also think that Dullindal doesn't like Kira (in addition to what you've already said) because Kira is the only one of his kind? Like perhaps Kira being who he is throws Dullindal's world of order and balance off because he was born with the ability to perform anything to an ultra high proficiency. Couple that with the fact that Dullindal thinks of Kira as being nothing more than a fighter, a puppet, and yet Kira thinks completely independent of the masses and follows what he believes in (like Lacus and Cagalli). Dullindal is not fond of independent thinkers I know that much to be true.

[BattousaiMS]

ROFL! Messiah beam?! Ah, that's just the funniest thing I've heard in a while.

Do you also think that Dullindal doesn't like Kira (in addition to what you've already said) because Kira is the only one of his kind? Like perhaps Kira being who he is throws Dullindal's world of order and balance off because he was born with the ability to perform anything to an ultra high proficiency. Couple that with the fact that Dullindal thinks of Kira as being nothing more than a fighter, a puppet, and yet Kira thinks completely independent of the masses and follows what he believes in (like Lacus and Cagalli). Dullindal is not fond of independent thinkers I know that much to be true.

Well, you Saw how Messiah looked right? It had a big Circle in the lower left. That could be another death ray cannon.

=============
Little comment on ep.45
AA dosn't need extra boosters to launch in space now??? I guess that means it's gotten faster 0.o. Can't wait for it to start fireing those Lowen-Green cannons... also this is the first time ever, that it fully crewed. Hope that increases it's efficency. I wonder how many MS it's actually carrying. I know the Main 3 of Orb space forces is in there, but it makes you wonder.

Plus Cagalli said Orb's 2nd Space fleet, so that means they have more ships in space. Kusanagi is probably there but it won't be one of the main ships this time given that Kisaka seems to remina at Orb. So looks like the Main two ships will be AA and Eternal. I hope they have Junk Yard guild and Serpant Clan in there too (they will anyway, they did on the last war too, we even had a cameo of re-home). Even though they won't make an appearence it will make the battle even.

Just immagine Kira, Athrun, Mew/Neo, Canard & Gai fighting on the same side.

[Son_Pan]

lol. wow. so THATS what it is. Brilliant Explaination, Battousai.

now i totally understand. thnx.

[Kiba-kun]

I'd hardly consider what JH said was spam, when you were the one tugging on the Politics issue, Kiba. Good thing the subject was changed, or we could have been seeing more of the War on Terrorism stuff.

ANYWAY. what exactly is the "Destiny Plan" can someone explain it in terms i can understand? haha.

You still have a problem with me....? I wasn't spamming at all, I was making a decent post that was on topic to SEED-D. If you're going to take offence at everything I say, then just put me on your 'ignore' list in your profile. Then you can't see my posts. ^_^

BattousaiMS....you say there's a cameo of ReHome in the final battle of SEED? Is it actually in the episodes? It'd be SO awesome if it is. I have the manga when they dock with the three ships alliance, but I never saw it in the anime...Ahh, Astray's so great...

[darksage78]

Shinn at the moment is a pawn and a fool (the biggest one out there). He is possibly the worst blue/red/white gundam pilot in the history of Gundams, even Heero has more intelligence then him. The guy was a robot, but atleast he knew when he was played and kicked back their butts when he got the chance. Shinn on the other hads goes deeper into Gil's pocket.

LMAO Totally agree on Shinn! Rep for you! And awesome explanation on the Destiny Plan. Looks like there might be two giant weapons of mass destruction in GSD. Guess Fukuda thought Genesis was great and decided that if he put two giant beam weapons in GSD he'd get more viewers... >_<"

Edit: Yea Kiba-kun, ReHome was in one of the last eps of SEED. Don't remember which one, but it was the one where the Clyne Faction was gathering their ships I think. Can't remember sorry.

[staradderdragoon]

i wouldnt be surprised if messiah was some uktimate weapon. i mean, the name just makes you think, what if?

[Jh1stgen]

ugh .... there's been a lot of politic discussion on bush relating with GSD and it didnt really go anywhere. Anyways, no duh sherlock it was a spam, but im sure u never spammed in teh forum b4, so i dont need someone telling me i was spamming. And if u dun lyke spamming, then u can use ur solution on me

[Inquisitor]

You still have a problem with me....? I wasn't spamming at all, I was making a decent post that was on topic to SEED-D. If you're going to take offence at everything I say, then just put me on your 'ignore' list in your profile. Then you can't see my posts. ^_^



Kiba, we've been over this several times now. No politics. Don't bring it up. This isn't a discussion of current events and how they relate to Gundam. This is a thread about Gundam SEED Destiny. Not about George Bush and his potential similiarities to a character in the anime. Politics is too controversial a topic to debate in this thread. Why do people insist upon bringing it up? You have to be the third or fourth person to posit the same point about Dullindal. Now, can we please just get back to discussing Gundam? If anyone wants to argue about politics, please do so in the appropriate threads. Not here.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by 3rdStrike:
so really I think that DESTINY PLAN does have something to do with controlling people's actions.
Well of course it has something with controlling people's actions. The way I see it Destiny Plan is a system that will prevent large-scale wars.(What I meant about 'actions' in my last post was your every actions, sorry if I was not clear)

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
You do not understand the predetermined world. It's a world where you are a slave of a computer, kinda like the Matrix but here it's the humans that doing it to themselves.
Our society is not so much unlike the Matrix. In Matrix the people becomes batteries to power the Matrix and in return the Matrix gives them a virtual world to live in safely. In our current societies we work for the better of our societies and countries and in return the society rewards us with better living conditions.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS
How can that world be better, if you can't do or be who you desire? Where you are forced to a job you may not like just because some genetic analyzing computer thinks your genes are only good enough to be a janitor? There is no freedom in the world, you get to choose nothing concerning your future. Your basically a robot.
I have free will and sometimes I think why should I study when I can just watch anime or play but I am still sane enough to know that I have to if I am to succeed in life.:)

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS
Destiny plan is a system where every human is assigned to a predestined life from his birth. So basically it's a life without destiny.
If the Destiny Plan is what you describe, like I said there is no more need for Kira and co. to even try to stop Dullindal seeing as how he will only make a fool out of himself. I do doubt that Kira and Athrun thinks that Destiny Plan is something like this...


Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
This is why, Gil doesn't like Kira & Lacus and to some extent Athrun. They defied their predestined. Lacus was to be married to Athrun, but she went for Kira. Athrun was to be married with Lacus, but he prefered Cagalli. Lacus was supposed to be the passive cheergirl, but she became a determinted leader etc...
Or it might be because he was jealous that he could not do the same thing?

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Shinn at the moment is a pawn and a fool (the biggest one out there). He is possibly the worst blue/red/white gundam pilot in the history of Gundams
How so? If he is willing to fight for Dullindal and believes in the ideals that Dullindal speak of then I don't see any reason why Shinn should defect. And if you are going to say Shinn is just a fool then I think it is only fair to say Athrun is a fool as well seeing as how he follows people who are seemingly good to him instead of fighting for his ideals and is easily manipulated.

Originally Posted by Chillin:
Do you also think that Dullindal doesn't like Kira (in addition to what you've already said) because Kira is the only one of his kind?
No, I think he does not like Kira because to Dullindal, Kira poses the biggest threat to his plans.

[BattousaiMS]

You still have a problem with me....? I wasn't spamming at all, I was making a decent post that was on topic to SEED-D. If you're going to take offence at everything I say, then just put me on your 'ignore' list in your profile. Then you can't see my posts. ^_^

BattousaiMS....you say there's a cameo of ReHome in the final battle of SEED? Is it actually in the episodes? It'd be SO awesome if it is. I have the manga when they dock with the three ships alliance, but I never saw it in the anime...Ahh, Astray's so great...

Check episode 47 at the 8 min mark. It's around there. Also in ep. 50 the guy who walks in Yakin Due with Athrun and Cagalli is GAI! From Astrey Blue... althought his face is covered by his dark visors :xp

[DevilB0i]

GSD phase 45 out by hiro..

[BattousaiMS]

Well of course it has something with controlling people's actions. The way I see it Destiny Plan is a system that will prevent large-scale wars.(What I meant about 'actions' in my last post was your every actions, sorry if I was not clear)

Our society is not so much unlike the Matrix. In Matrix the people becomes batteries to power the Matrix and in return the Matrix gives them a virtual world to live in safely. In our current societies we work for the better of our societies and countries and in return the society rewards us with better living conditions.

I have free will and sometimes I think why should I study when I can just watch anime or play but I am still sane enough to know that I have to if I am to succeed in life.:)

If the Destiny Plan is what you describe, like I said there is no more need for Kira and co. to even try to stop Dullindal seeing as how he will only make a fool out of himself. I do doubt that Kira and Athrun thinks that Destiny Plan is something like this...

Or it might be because he was jealous that he could not do the same thing?

How so? If he is willing to fight for Dullindal and believes in the ideals that Dullindal speak of then I don't see any reason why Shinn should defect. And if you are going to say Shinn is just a fool then I think it is only fair to say Athrun is a fool as well seeing as how he follows people who are seemingly good to him instead of fighting for his ideals and is easily manipulated.


No, I think he does not like Kira because to Dullindal, Kira poses the biggest threat to his plans.

Destiny plan won't prevent wars, it will simply make people unable to fight for anything. It's called becomming a robot, you follow orders you are given, you do not disobey, if you do your a defect and you are eliminated.

The society that Gil is proposing is the same as the Matrix/Brave new world. Your not getting the understanding of what the Matrix really meant from a philosophical/psychological stand point. The point wasn't being used as an energy source, but to become the slave for some bigger purpose, in Matrix it was to become food for the robots, in Brave New World it was to take away selfishness, curruption & violence. Destiny Plan is to take away uselessness/violence. They are all the same, it's still taking a part of the human being that the creator of such system consider a defect. Sure DP has more to do with the Brave new world then Matrix but given that Matrix is more popular I used it to explain it.

Yes, you have the free will now, but in a society that invokes DP, you will not. Because your genes might tell them that you must become an astrophysician and that your genes are made to make you study 12hrs a day. Now if you simply wanted to be computer programmer, who doesn't have to study that much and can enjoy his free times doing stuff he likes (like making/testing) games, guess what you aren't doing it, because the system has decided for you what it thinks you are better suited for.

The problem with plans like DP is that it looks good in paper. I come here and tell you, hunter i got a great plan for your future, you will no longer have to see anymore atrocious wars and violence and be in peace for all time. You would probably love that plan, but what you are missing is that all things has a price to pay, this same plan asks you to be a slave of your own genes. You might have never thought of that part and that is what Lacus was talking about. Gil's world about peace is great, but are they willing to become slaves of their own genes for it? Review ep 44 and you will see they are talking about the same thing.

I had written a post in begining of GSD (around ep ~9-20, i think) on why I believe that Gil was a bad guy. In that I said he did hate people like Kira, Athrun, Lacus and Cagalli because unlike him they broke away from their premade destiny. He himself wanted a family with Talia, but she chose the other guy over him because they, gene-scientists in PLANT, had told her that the other man was the perfect match if she ever wanted a child. So she dumped him for that and he accepted that fate. But Kira, Lacus and Athrun broke theirs. Lacus was meant to be with Athrun, but she wanted Kira more. Kira was probably perfect for any girl, but he got Lacus. Athrun went total opposite by going for a natural like Cagalli. So he is jalous of them and he does consider them as the ultimate rivals of his world.

Shinn is a fool, because instead of checking the fact for himself he goes to people like Gil and Rey and gets branwashed by them. I mean seriously, when Lacus reappared, he should have seriously questionned Gil's words, maybe look at it abit by himself. But he doesn't he goes and asks Rey. Not only that he tries to blame everything on Orb, the very same nation that saved his life when he was young. Did he really think if Orb submitted to EA that time, his family would have survived? Giving power to ppl of Blue Cosmos? Seriously if anything BC ppl would probably use him as shooting practice.

Athrun was a fool and he admited to it. He admited that let himself play into Gil's hand, let him use him by his feelings. Shinn didn't admit anything. Also Athrun doesn't use a blue/red/white gundam, Shinn does. That's why Athrun says to Kira in 45 that "we are all the same, for wanting what we wish for, just that some people don't know what they wish for". It's a reference to Shinn: he wants peace, but for that peace he is willing to commit genocide. What's the purpose of peace if the ones you want peace with are no longer there?

[Son_Pan]

edit: thank you for that, Inquisitor.
---
^

In the scan that was posted over the week, i believe, it is Athrun vs. Shinn. Perhaps then Athrun will successfully get it into Shinn's head becuase Rey will be fighting Kira, and then it leads to Rey and his health issue. oh well. just my small theory, after reading what battousai had to say.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Destiny plan won't prevent wars, it will simply make people unable to fight for anything. It's called becomming a robot, you follow orders you are given, you do not disobey, if you do your a defect and you are eliminated.
We have something similar to this and it is called laws. If you are going to disobey these set of laws then you are going to be punished.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
The point wasn't being used as an energy source, but to become the slave for some bigger purpose
Call it whatever you want. The reason why I made a comparison with Matrix and real life is to show you that some of the concepts are being applied here in real life which is to sacrifice something to gain certain benefits.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Yes, you have the free will now, but in a society that invokes DP, you will not.
You missed my point. My point was that you do not need to repress free will in order for people to sacrifice a certain freedom for a certain benefit.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Because your genes might tell them that you must become an astrophysician and that your genes are made to make you study 12hrs a day. Now if you simply wanted to be computer programmer, who doesn't have to study that much and can enjoy his free times doing stuff he likes (like making/testing) games, guess what you aren't doing it, because the system has decided for you what it thinks you are better suited for.
This is the only sacrifice that is being asked for a peaceful and stable world.

Dullindal is basically doing something every politician in the past has done which was asking people to sacrifice something for a certain benefit.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
The problem with plans like DP is that it looks good in paper. I come here and tell you, hunter i got a great plan for your future, you will no longer have to see anymore atrocious wars and violence and be in peace for all time. You would probably love that plan, but what you are missing is that all things has a price to pay
Precisely. He is asking people to sacrifice their freedom of choosing jobs for a new and peaceful world. Which is quite common nowadays anyway. Most people sacrifice the job they like to do for a higher paying job to gain the benefit of a better living standard.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
So he is jalous of them and he does consider them as the ultimate rivals of his world.
He would not have touch them had he not thought that they are going to be a big threat to him.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Did he really think if Orb submitted to EA that time, his family would have survived? Giving power to ppl of Blue Cosmos? Seriously if anything BC ppl would probably use him as shooting practice.
No he blamed Orb because its leader Uzumi Nara Attha placed a heavier emphasis on their ideals instead of the lives of his citizens. And no the EA basically let Orb govern itself.(At least that is what I have heard)

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
we are all the same, for wanting what we wish for, just that some people don't know what they wish for". It's a reference to Shinn:
This is quite arrogant of Athrun. Does he think that all the other paths that differ from his are evil and wrong?

[Zellianne Zettle]

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7060/11248366107701bm.jpg

[Jujubie]

About the pic, Shinn taking off his ZAFT jacket probably means he's fed up with ZAFT, and Rey holding his arms toward Shinn with an evil smirk means Shinn will make a choice soon between the two opposing sides.

And *sigh* don't know if I can get my thoughts through to Hunter. gj batms.

[staradderdragoon]

whoa. wtf is up with rey?

[Jh1stgen]

Klueeze didnt show his "other side" for majority of teh series, maybe that same principle applies to Rey as well .. *cough more sadistic

[Chrno]

Check episode 47 at the 8 min mark. It's around there. Also in ep. 50 the guy who walks in Yakin Due with Athrun and Cagalli is GAI! From Astrey Blue... althought his face is covered by his dark visors :xp

lol cool I always thought that yellow ship was some messed up archangel error oO; never read astray so wasen't familiar with it XD; anyone know where to download the manga tho?

[Chillin]

That picture probably doesn't tell us anything we don't already know (Rey is a manipulative bastard and Shinn is an idiot). Rey looks very disturbing however. It will be interesting to see how things lead up to the final battles.

[DevilB0i]

That picture probably doesn't tell us anything we don't already know (Rey is a manipulative bastard and Shinn is an idiot). Rey looks very disturbing however.
LOL true! Shinn is a idiot that cant think for himself until it's too late.

[Martes13]

nice picturee! It means a good ending.. hehe... any SEED (Arthun, Kira, Shinn) character will be sacrificed =).

I wanted to see more S-Freedom and I-Justice scenes :/ but i think we will only have 1 or 2 battles more with them.

[pinoy22]

i hope shinn dies while killin rey.....is it jus me or does rey seem like a sadistic bastard?

[Jh1stgen]

Like father like son ... assuming Rey is related to Klueeze... Im still kinda getting used to the fact that Legend is that strong. I was hoping that Shinn can be the main antagonist and die as the main antagonist with Rey. But it looks lyke that Rey dont need Shinn

[ssouske]

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7060/11248366107701bm.jpg
hmmm... looked like rey did some sexual experiments on shinn...:laugh

[Freija]

We have something similar to this and it is called laws. If you are going to disobey these set of laws then you are going to be punished.


Call it whatever you want. The reason why I made a comparison with Matrix and real life is to show you that some of the concepts are being applied here in real life which is to sacrifice something to gain certain benefits.


You missed my point. My point was that you do not need to repress free will in order for people to sacrifice a certain freedom for a certain benefit.


This is the only sacrifice that is being asked for a peaceful and stable world.

Dullindal is basically doing something every politician in the past has done which was asking people to sacrifice something for a certain benefit.


Precisely. He is asking people to sacrifice their freedom of choosing jobs for a new and peaceful world. Which is quite common nowadays anyway. Most people sacrifice the job they like to do for a higher paying job to gain the benefit of a better living standard.


He would not have touch them had he not thought that they are going to be a big threat to him.


No he blamed Orb because its leader Uzumi Nara Attha placed a heavier emphasis on their ideals instead of the lives of his citizens. And no the EA basically let Orb govern itself.(At least that is what I have heard)


This is quite arrogant of Athrun. Does he think that all the other paths that differ from his are evil and wrong?
ok seriously, you would pick a world where you can't decide anything by yourself cause its peaceful ? to me that is just way too stupid.

[Son_Pan]

hmmm... looked like rey did some sexual experiments on shinn...:laugh

LOL!!! omigod. that was SO hilarious, im still laughing. hahahahahha!

ahem, well, i think uh, LOL. nvm, ssouske ruined it for me. :laugh

interesting pic though.

[Jh1stgen]

I can understand both sides ...

There's no promise that after the war, the world be clinse of hatred and everyone from Naturals to Coordinators will get along. Like with those coordinators that are still persuaded by Chairman Zala's words and those Naturals persuaded by the Blue Cosmos. This is bc ppl make their own decesions whether or not if we think they're right. And in terms of right, it varies bc "right" is a perspective based on the belief what a person is doing what they believe is right. So applying Gill's Destiny Plan will 100% prevent wars

However, what makes a person so special is their unqiue self. It's contradicting really bc Gill decides on ppl's fate, yet if it werent for free will he had, he wouldnt have been the person he's today.

I dont think Destiny Plan is something like Black and White where essentially ppl are robots. Like i dont think they'll have covero saying "Hello my name is code 214515353253525, how are you?" I think it just where ppl wont think of war, bc that trait of violence is taken away from them.

[BattousaiMS]

hmmm... looked like rey did some sexual experiments on shinn...:laugh
I was thinking the same thing... Shinn looks like a raped victime trying to cover up that he has been raped. While Rey is like "hey ppl, see this guy? I made him a man" (as in u know...).

:huh ---> :S ---> :eek: ---> :barf (just got the image of what i said on my head...OH GOWD NUUUUUUUUUUU!)

I can understand both sides ...

There's no promise that after the war, the world be clinse of hatred and everyone from Naturals to Coordinators will get along. Like with those coordinators that are still persuaded by Chairman Zala's words and those Naturals persuaded by the Blue Cosmos. This is bc ppl make their own decesions whether or not if we think they're right. And in terms of right, it varies bc "right" is a perspective based on the belief what a person is doing what they believe is right. So applying Gill's Destiny Plan will 100% prevent wars

However, what makes a person so special is their unqiue self. It's contradicting really bc Gill decides on ppl's fate, yet if it werent for free will he had, he wouldnt have been the person he's today.

I dont think Destiny Plan is something like Black and White where essentially ppl are robots. Like i dont think they'll have covero saying "Hello my name is code 214515353253525, how are you?" I think it just where ppl wont think of war, bc that trait of violence is taken away from them.

Erm, you can't take away violence. It comes with the will to fight for our hopes and dreams. Also note that it was that gene (the one that makes us fight for our beliefs) is the reason human speicies survived and now rules all other species. If it wasn't there we would be long dead. It is also linked with our protective nature. This is why gene manipulation is bad. Changing appearence, making a person diseases free or making a person talented in one thing, removing anger and the will to fight is another. The first case they just increased those outputs in the genes, in the second you aren't increasing or decresing, your destroying those genes.

Some other things I noticed in ep 45:
Meylin is amazed that Kira works fast (it's natural for Kira to type without looking the screen :laugh).

Looks like Talia is doing all this for her boy, which makes me wonder, will she still want to fight now that Djibril is dead?

Also, anyone else thinking Yzak (white Gouf) and his two black blaze zaku partners (Dearka and Shiho) will join Orb + Clyne Faction alliance now that PLANT is safe. Because we know what Yzak values more a) PLANT b) Honesty.

I can see it now :laugh .

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Itachi_:
ok seriously, you would pick a world where you can't decide anything by yourself cause its peaceful ? to me that is just way too stupid.
Then why don't you give your opinion about this matter?

And who in the world said Destiny Plan will decide every course of action you take? Dullindal it would seem never really is that interested in controlling what you think, he is only interested in making people fulfill their destiny but by fulfilling your destiny it means that you utilize your full potential.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Gill decides on ppl's fate, yet if it werent for free will he had, he wouldnt have been the person he's today.
And how will he decide the fate of every person. So far in GSD it has not been showed that Dullindal even cares about small conflicts. He is only after erasing large-scale conflicts.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen
that trait of violence is taken away from them.
I would have to agree with Battousai here. It is impossible to remove violence since it has always been in human nature but what you can do is set up a system which will minimize violence.

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Also, anyone else thinking Yzak (white Gouf) and his two black blaze zaku partners (Dearka and Shiho) will join Orb + Clyne Faction alliance now that PLANT is safe.
I hope not. I want them to stay and fight for Zaft.

[DevilB0i]

Dullindal must be taken out I just hate him and Rey same thing goes for
Shinn(lil crybaby). Anyways It seem like the cilvilians are on Dullindal side and how is arthun and kira gonna change anything?

[Wave]

uh, kira cried way more then shinn. kira (japanese version) also sounded like kira was taking a long and painful crap when he was crying once in seed (chopstickx knows what i'm talking about hahaha). shinn's crying at least looked more...well reasonable and more normal. so cant really saw he's a lil crybaby.

athrun and kira are dreams =/
with mwu (him and his "i'm invincible" motto) going with those two. i think do believe they can take on the chairman's empire...sorta.

[3rdStrike]

I would have to agree with Battousai here. It is impossible to remove violence since it has always been in human nature but what you can do is set up a system which will minimize violence.


That's why the Destiny Plan works here. Through gene manipulation, "a person's natural genes given at birth decides everything for them", thus violence DOESN'T have to be a human nature and so violence can be removed. Causes that leads to war such as jealousy and greed, which are also in human nature DOESN'T have to exist. That's what Dullindal meant by a "world without any fighting at all". Or at least that's how I interpert what Lacus meant in 44.


p.s. And finally I made way to Academy Teacher.

[darksage78]

Just downloaded Seed Fansub's 45 and after watching that Shinn and Luna scene... I'm thinking Luna might die. Everything Shinn has ever promised to do, well kinda went wrong. Even though Freedom was destroyed, Kira is still a live and in a new Freedom. He promised Stellar that he'd protect her, failed. Now Luna asked Shinn to believe in her and Shinn said that he would protect her. From that point I think Luna's fate was sealed... If only she heard about Stellar >__<

[Kiba-kun]

It's pretty much guaranteed Luna will die now XD I wonder about Neo? I hope he stays alive, just so they can't bring him back AGAIN next time and tarnish the poor guys character further.

Anyone notice how badly Shinn, Luna and Rey were drawn in their briefing scene? Must have been saving money for the last 5 eps.

About the politics thing - I'm sorry if it offends you, but what I said was very much related to the series and didn't really require any kind of debate on American policies. I was merely trying to point out the comparison the writers were quite obviously trying to draw, and someone then told me Fukuda had made it clear that was his aims in an interview. There's really no need to get shirty about it.

I guess I should have remember what one of my American friends told me: "Never, ever mention politics around Bush supporters. They go crazy, and immediately assume everything you're saying is an unpatriotic attack on the government." So I guess it's my fault for forgetting that. If someone had posted what I said before, I haven't seen it, and I've been with this thread since the very beginning. Sorry to ramble like this, but this isn't the first time this has happened to me (it is here, but it's happened so often when I was in the states and online) and I'm fed up of having my opinions repressed just because they differ to some peoples. Thank you very much. ^_^

[Wave]

It's pretty much guaranteed Luna will die now XD I wonder about Neo? I hope he stays alive, just so they can't bring him back AGAIN next time and tarnish the poor guys character further.

lol, dude. its safe to say he wont get killed this time...well at least from a blast.
i got a feeling theres gonna be another used animation though =/
ie: Minerva fires Tannhauser at Archangel, but Neo pops outta nowhere to block it. but this time doesnt get destroy but reflects it. giving Murrue a near heartattack just cause it was similar to what happened the last time he did that.

yer..

[Kiba-kun]

lol, dude. its safe to say he wont get killed this time...well at least from a blast.
i got a feeling theres gonna be another used animation though =/
ie: Minerva fires Tannhauser at Archangel, but Neo pops outta nowhere to block it. but this time doesnt get destroy but reflects it. giving Murrue a near heartattack just cause it was similar to what happened the last time he did that.

yer..

I would bet money on that happening. XD It sounds very much like something Fukuda would do....perhaps, that'll happen, and everyone's like "phew" - but then, Legend appears and finishes him off from behind. That'd be fantastically hard-hitting.

[Inquisitor]

About the politics thing - I'm sorry if it offends you, but what I said was very much related to the series and didn't really require any kind of debate on American policies. I was merely trying to point out the comparison the writers were quite obviously trying to draw, and someone then told me Fukuda had made it clear that was his aims in an interview. There's really no need to get shirty about it.

Look, I will ignore the sanctimonious tone of your post if only to get to the heart of the matter. We don't discuss politics here because it inevitably gets out of hand. Moreover, once it is introduced it obfuscates the focus of the thread. Let's just say that someone decides to field your point about Dullindal and Bush. That would invariably lead to a greater discussion of Bush's presidency. Suddenly we see posts delving into the details of the present administration, and so, instead of discussing Gundam SEED Destiny, we are talking about George Bush. That's not why I'm on this foru,. That's not why any of us are here.


I guess I should have remember what one of my American friends told me: "Never, ever mention politics around Bush supporters. They go crazy, and immediately assume everything you're saying is an unpatriotic attack on the government." So I guess it's my fault for forgetting that. If someone had posted what I said before, I haven't seen it, and I've been with this thread since the very beginning. Sorry to ramble like this, but this isn't the first time this has happened to me (it is here, but it's happened so often when I was in the states and online) and I'm fed up of having my opinions repressed just because they differ to some peoples. Thank you very much. ^_^

Woah, woah, woah. I never said that your opinions were an "unpatriotic attack on the government." So far, no one has said that. Don't make a martyr of yourself. As it has often been said: in this thread we don't discuss politics. That is the concensus of this community. Finally, this isn't the first time politics has been brought up and the comparison drawn between Dullindal and Bush. It's ok that you missed it, but that doesn't make it completely ok for you to make the same mistake.

[SGLP]

Do you guys think Shinn will side with Dullindal's Destiny Plan or Lacus' resolution?

When the battle starts he'll be real confused until Rey makes him see the light. Either Kira kills Rey and Shinn comes to his senses or Athrun simply kills Shinn when he realizes it's no use. Or Shinn realizes he's been wrong all this time and sacrifices himself.

[Son_Pan]

Aya Ueto FREAK. lol.

who ever said i was a for bush? im a democrat.

anyway, i think its one of those times again....

well, i won't be here to discuss/view the last 5 episodes of Gundam SEED Destiny. As You know, school is starting for me, soon. That means, I'm Not going to be here anymore; School is Important to me. I guess I want to say that It was really cool meeting all of you, and I wish you all the best in whatever may come your way.

I will leave it at that... SO! until next time peoplez!!

Laters!! :)

Check Your PM Box :-]

[Jh1stgen]

Erm, you can't take away violence. It comes with the will to fight for our hopes and dreams. Also note that it was that gene (the one that makes us fight for our beliefs) is the reason human speicies survived and now rules all other species. If it wasn't there we would be long dead. It is also linked with our protective nature. This is why gene manipulation is bad. Changing appearence, making a person diseases free or making a person talented in one thing, removing anger and the will to fight is another. The first case they just increased those outputs in the genes, in the second you aren't increasing or decresing, your destroying those genes.

OK ... this is anime, nothing has to be realistic that you can relate to the real world. And logically speaking it can happen, but even today we dont have the technology/or knowledge to create coordinators or matter of fact an ultimate coordinator. Even we dont have Gundams in teh military, let alone even a single MS unit. So what makes you think that it's impossible to get rid of the trait by gene manipulation? Yeah sure, we dont have the technology for it now, but maybe there is in GSD.

You admitt there's a gene that make us the human we are today, and that is how we have lived so long. In addition, there will always be war, and in that case, there will be casualties. But that gene is what makes us human, which is pitty jealous, greed and hate. So Gill wants to get rid of those genes where people will never have those kind of emotions. But they will have other emotions such as joy, happiness and etc.

Dont get the impression that im pro with Gill's Destiny Plan. I said i can understand both sides... so im in the middle

And it's been cool SP. Good luck academically and stay away from those fruits:)

[BattousaiMS]

OK ... this is anime, nothing has to be realistic that you can relate to the real world. And logically speaking it can happen, but even today we dont have the technology/or knowledge to create coordinators or matter of fact an ultimate coordinators. Even we dont have Gundams in teh military, let alone even a single MS unit.

You admitt there's a gene that make us the human we are today, and that is how we have lived so long. In addition, there will always be war, and in that case, there will be casualties. But that gene is what makes us human, which is pitty jealous, greed and hate. So Gill wants to get rid of those genes where people will never have those kind of emotions. But they will have other emotions such as joy, happiness and etc.

Dont get the impression that im pro with Gill's Destiny Plan. I said i can understand both sides... so im in the middle

And it's been cool SP. Good luck academically and stay away from those fruits:)

Erm what? the fictional thing in gundams is being in sapce, newtype powers and fighting in giants robots. Most of the other subjects/views are based on reality, that's what makes gundam so great.

If you take out anger you just de-evolunized humankind it's simple as that. Plus it is said that it is utterly impossible to play with emotion cells they are all interconnected, mess with one and you might become a veggie for life.

Gil's proposition isn't to take out emotions either, there has been no much mention of that. What he is going to do is indentify each persons life by their genes and then put them to work on it and only on it. If the person does otherwise, say rebellle or tries to chose another path, they are considered defects and eliminated.

Seriously some of you should really check 44-45 bit per bit before trying to explain DP.

[CHEH]

so like i just wanna know is cagalli and athrun over?
did she give him to meyrin?

[darksage78]

@ Kiba-kun Like I said before, Fukuda ruined Mwu by bringing him back. He's not gonna kill him off again. That's why he got the Akatsuki. Deflecting beams, he's not allowed to die now. I'm still not sure if Shinn will die. It's still around a 50:50 for me. I'm really eager to find out if he realizes he had been used for so long and what he'll do.

[Jujubie]

@ Hunter, from what I read of the Destiny Plan, it is a plan to bring order to the world through your own DNA. I do not think Dullindal would allow people to develop random characteristics in the womb and then in their life develop their potential, not if he can predetermine what those characteristics are at birth which he probably can. This way, humans are nothing but drones with their function determined before conception. That is the world of Brave New World.

Awww, imma miss you S_P! At least come back in October. Don't study too hard!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by 3rdStrike:
That's why the Destiny Plan works here. Through gene manipulation, "a person's natural genes given at birth decides everything for them", thus violence DOESN'T have to be a human nature and so violence can be removed. Causes that leads to war such as jealousy and greed, which are also in human nature DOESN'T have to exist.
If this was the case then why haven't Plants used this method in the first place? It would be beneficial for them if they are to eliminate these vices.

Originally Posted by Jujubie:
This way, humans are nothing but drones with their function determined before conception.

You make it sound so bad... The only thing Destiny Plan(as I have observed)will do is pre-determine the profession you will take and focus most of your energy on that profession. You are still free to do whatever you want in your free-time because I do doubt Dullindal is that stupid as to think he can somehow control everybody's actions.

[Inquisitor]

You make it sound so bad... The only thing Destiny Plan(as I have observed)will do is pre-determine the profession you will take and focus most of your energy on that profession. You are still free to do whatever you want in your free-time because I do doubt Dullindal is that stupid as to think he can somehow control r=everybody's actions.

But once it is determined that it is ok to force people to do a certain task in one aspect of their life in order to benefit the greater good, then who's to say that other activities could not be determined for the greater good? What limit is there to this genetic determinism? Destiny Plan at the very least would set a precedent of exerting a high level of societal control over humanity. That in and of itself is troubling. Also, don't people deserve the freedom of deciding what to do with their lives? When did equality of results trump equality of opportunity? When did it become just for a political leader to impose such a social system?

By the way, good luck at school Son_Pan. It won't be the same around here without you.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
What limit is there to this genetic determinism?
I cannot answer this yet with the information given to us.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Also, don't people deserve the freedom of deciding what to do with their lives?
This is the sacrifice people will have to make to create a peaceful and stable world. Basically what Dullindal is doing is asking people to pay a price for a certain benefit. The ony thing is the sacrifice he is asking is quite drastic but the benefit is also huge compared to the past.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
When did equality of results trump equality of opportunity?
Even in real life we do not have that much a choice in what career we pursue.

[Zellianne Zettle]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b297/aeriolewinters/a805c534.jpg

[Inquisitor]

I cannot answer this yet with the information given to us.


Fair enough.


This is the sacrifice people will have to make to create a peaceful and stable world. Basically what Dullindal is doing is asking people to pay a price for a certain benefit. The ony thing is the sacrifice he is asking is quite drastic but the benefit is also huge compared to the past.

You must be kidding. There are quite a few words for a society where there is safety and stability but no freedom: dicatorship, facism, totalitarianism. Also, you don't know that Dullindal's plan will succeed. Is it really wise to go on a spree of genetic manipulation when the results aren't certain? What if, despite all of this genetic tampering, some people still go crazy and commit crimes? Methinks you might be overestimating the power of science and underestimating the depravity of mankind.


Even in real life we do not have that much a choice in what career we pursue.

I disagree. Individuals make concious choices all the time as to what career they will pursue, what path they will take. At this very moment I have manifold choices as to what I should study in college and what I should do afterwards.

[staradderdragoon]

I dont think Destiny Plan is something like Black and White where essentially ppl are robots. Like i dont think they'll have covero saying "Hello my name is code 214515353253525, how are you?" I think it just where ppl wont think of war, bc that trait of violence is taken away from them.

that reminds me of a book i just read. how the ppl are given names, and they arent allowed to think for themselves. there is no individualism. what kind of perfect world is that?

[3rdStrike]

If this was the case then why haven't Plants used this method in the first place? It would be beneficial for them if they are to eliminate these vices.

When you meant the first place, I assume you meant the idea of the beginning of coordinators? From what I understood from SEED, the naturals or people were obsessed with this new technology - able to determine the looks and talents of your child. Couples went "OMG, I WANT MY BABY TO HAVE BLUE EYES, inherit MY TALENTS" and so on. People were obsessed with this new technology, thus never took the time to understand what manipulating genes would bring to future and the consequences. Look at Prof. Hibiki, did he really care what Kira's future would be like? NO, all he wanted was make the perfect Coordinator out there. Who the hell would be bothered to figure out that the consequences of breeding or making their child a Coordinator would create jealousy and arouse hatred,violence and war?


Destiny Plan, to me, is like taking a further step in GENE manipulation. And even it is used in the first place, it only can be used for coordinators. THEN WHAT? In that case, all Coordinators don't have violence, hatred and jealousy in their nature while the Naturals do. Even though these vices are got ridden of for Coordinators, they still exceed the naturals in health and intellectually. Do you think the Naturals will accept and understand this fact? Not exactly since the Natural still inherits these vices. Violence will still exist if it was used in the first place.

The Destiny Plan would only work under one condition which is to elimate mankind at this point. By wiping out mankind, history, ideals, morals and values will be all gone. Everything starts with a blank piece of paper. This is what Dullindal has been trying to achieve, well at least this is what I think.:laugh



Son_Pan, it's been great having you around. BUT DO come drop a line when you have time... i.e. when you feel like procastinating and have really nothing to do. Now to come to think about, after GSD is done I wonder what this thread and section be like... Probably empty until a new series is being aired? :sad

[Inquisitor]

The Destiny Plan would only work under one condition which is to elimate mankind at this point. By wiping out mankind, history, ideals, morals and values will be all gone. Everything starts with a blank piece of paper. This is what Dullindal has been trying to achieve, well at least this is what I think.:laugh



It would only work (if it is even possible for it to work) in a world where only Coordinators existed. However, if we all think back to SEED, Patrick Zala and Kleuze were discussing at one point how the newest generation of Coordinators had low birth rates. Zala assured himself that with their technology they could overcome the problem.

You know, from what you are saying 3rd strike, it seems to me that there is a strong possibility that Dullindal's proposition of the Destiny Plan will create a backlash. It is true that Djibril's actions have descredited Blue Cosmos in the eyes of the majority of the public, but the masses can be fickle, and there is no telling exactly how people will react to the Chairman's plan.

[Chillin]

I agree with that assumption 3rdStrike. Humanity would indeed have to start anew. If not, it would be just like when the world found out there were coordinators. They were considered a threat to the "natural order" and many people were outraged and this eventually led to war. It would be the same thing if people were born or altered under the Destiny Plan. When you set such a radical plan into motion there will always be people that oppose it (not just ORB). There would almost certainly be another group similar to the Blue Cosmos if the Destiny Plan were to become a reality. Some coordinators could even feel threatened, not just the naturals.

[Bleachsuki]

hmm this destiny plan's sound werid. it kind of sounds like equilabrium with there brainwashin emotional killing shot. Also what was that movie.i forgot where a baby was born with a heart disease and was born not smart so the world decided what job he will be doing like janaitor but he wanted to be in space so he took this guy's identity and he helped him out to make his dream come true.in the beginning of the movie you see this machine taking a little drop of blood off your fingertip. what was it? i forgot but destiny plan sounds like that.

[Inquisitor]

There would almost certainly be another group similar to the Blue Cosmos if the Destiny Plan were to become a reality. Some coordinators could even feel threatened, not just the naturals.

Indeed. That explains why Dullindal has trying so hard to gain public support. When he said, "Thank you Djibril" I think he was talking about how that man's heinous acts put him (Dullindal) into a better position to lead the world. Also, this explains why he wants his own Lacus. He will need a lot of political force to get people on his side. LOGOS and Blue Cosmos have been useful pawns in the grand scheme of things by putting the Chairman in a sort of messianic light. If he is able to maintain the support of most people then he will have enough time to construct the necessary power apparatus to keep humanity on the track he desires, while still having enough military power to remove any external threats (like Orb).

[Chillin]

Yes, and I must say the chairman has done a wonderful job of manipulating the people, and for that reason there are those that will accept the Destiny Plan with open arms.

This reminds me of X (which just so happens to play on that whole destiny/fate thing) in which the Dragons of Earth wish to destroy the world as it is, wipe out humanity, and start over. The Dragons of Heaven accept the world faults and all, and want the world to continue as it is. The Destiny Plan may in fact not go that far, but I can see where comparisons can be made even if not on quite the same level.

[Jh1stgen]

I like how things are going right now. Compare to seed, it was predictable what the outcome will be. Now in GSD, it's really hard to see how the protagonist will prevail on this one ...

[Chillin]

The odds are certainly against Kira and co. which is what I've been saying for the longest time! Well at least some pages back :laugh

[Jh1stgen]

Yeah, the way i c it right now. Even if Kira n co somehow beat ZAFT with the use of fighting, can they possibily win against the people who are supporting GIll? It was evidently clear that just bc Gill was exposed of Meer, people still support him. This is definitly gona be a hard one ...

[Jikes]

hmm this destiny plan's sound werid. it kind of sounds like equilabrium with there brainwashin emotional killing shot. Also what was that movie.i forgot where a baby was born with a heart disease and was born not smart so the world decided what job he will be doing like janaitor but he wanted to be in space so he took this guy's identity and he helped him out to make his dream come true.in the beginning of the movie you see this machine taking a little drop of blood off your fingertip. what was it? i forgot but destiny plan sounds like that.

the movie you are thinking of is Gataca! i thought it was very good, and thinking about Destiny Plan it does indeed seem like they have something in common.
In reference to X i'm ashamed to say that i was rooting for the Dragons of Earth, but then again i'm some Humanity Hating Hippy (Triple H :smile-big).

yes i know i've not been posting for a while but thats because there is less content in this forum that attracts me so I just skip though and look at the pictures and spoilers and thats it.

at the moment i'm finding it really hard to understand what everyone is fighting for in the series, it all seems just that little bit to idealistic and trying to hard to be profound, for me. All this bullshit that comes out of lacus's mouth is really annoying, its hard enough to understand than to actually pic up on what she is realy trying to say, what she said to Athrun just before he gets I-Justice was just laughable. And is it just me or is all this gasping that every character seems to do when someone else says something somewhat important really annoying?

[Jh1stgen]

It's not you ... ive been getting fed up by those corny speeches done by Kira and co. Can they really win this war? I dont think so, it's within the human instinct that there will always be jealousy, hate and etc. And those coordinators in GSD that was responsible of junius 7 is a prime example. And imagine what will happen when 2 PLANTS were destroyed. 2x the hate ....

Ya, i was laffing my butt off when Lacus told Athrun by saying, "but ur Athrun arent you?" My god, Athrun get so persuaded so easily

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
You must be kidding. There are quite a few words for a society where there is safety and stability but no freedom: dicatorship, facism, totalitarianism.
So? The only reason most people do not like these forms of government is because they were brought up that way.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Also, you don't know that Dullindal's plan will succeed.
Whether he will succeed or not isn't the case here. Even if he is to fail some of his ideas might one day benefit the world in the future if done in a not so extreme manner. Heck it was because of Dullindal that Naturals are now able to accept coordinators which I am sure will really help the Clyne faction.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Is it really wise to go on a spree of genetic manipulation when the results aren't certain? What if, despite all of this genetic tampering, some people still go crazy and commit crimes?
Then would you have preferred that the society should not put up any legal system since after all they did not know what will happen afterwards?

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
I disagree. Individuals make concious choices all the time as to what career they will pursue, what path they will take. At this very moment I have manifold choices as to what I should study in college and what I should do afterwards.
Well that's you, but I know a lot of people who wants to do something else but is forced to their current profession since they have no choice but to do this if they are to support themselves.

Originally Posted by 3rdStrike:
When you meant the first place, I assume you meant the idea of the beginning of coordinators?
No, I meant that why have they not used the technology to eliminate jealousy and greed that you say Dullindal will do?

Originally Posted by 3rdStrike:
The Destiny Plan would only work under one condition which is to elimate mankind at this point. By wiping out mankind, history, ideals, morals and values will be all gone.
Well so far Destiny Plan seems to be a system that will erase large-scale conflicts. I do doubt Dullindal is that ambitious to even bother eliminating the vices of humans.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
can they possibily win against the people who are supporting GIll?
If they are able to give more benefits to the people but with less sacrifice than Dullindal then it is possible.

I think the problem with what Dullindal did is that he urged to fight a crusade but he did not really divulge the amount of losses they suffered and hid all the problems. So if these are to be exposed most likely he will quite a number of his followers though he will still be left with enough for him to be considered a threat.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
It's not you ... ive been getting fed up by those corny speeches done by Kira and co.
But in real life it is these corny speeches that usually garners more support...

Not only that but if memory serves me right most of the gundam shows I watched had quite a number of corny speeches(well at least for me)
Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
it's within the human instinct that there will always be jealousy, hate and etc.
I don't really get your point here. So what if they cannot eliminate jealousy and hatred? What does this have anything to do with winning the war?

[Jujubie]

Dullindal is as ambitious as eliminating the vices of humanity. That is the goal of Destiny Plan from what I have read in the spoilers thread. BUT, we will not know for sure until the next few episodes. Let's close this debate until we know exactly what "Destiny Plan" is.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Jujubie:
Dullindal is as ambitious as eliminating the vices of humanity. That is the goal of Destiny Plan from what I have read in the spoilers thread.
Huh, how does this statement
It's said to match all of mankind with positions & roles that correspond to one's own abilities.
confirms Dullindal as ambitious as you say he is?

[Jh1stgen]

If they are able to give more benefits to the people but with less sacrifice than Dullindal then it is possible.

I think the problem with what Dullindal did is that he urged to fight a crusade but he did not really divulge the amount of losses they suffered and hid all the problems. So if these are to be exposed most likely he will quite a number of his followers though he will still be left with enough for him to be considered a threat.


What are you talking about. December 7 n 8 and Januarius 4 have been destroyed. IF Junius 7 was that much of a big deal to the Coordinators, imagine the amount of hate they have now. It is something that Kira and co can never take away from them. So there's no way that the ppl would follow Kira and co at this rate. Even Miss Coniel and her fellow peers still follow Gill. That same concept is still applied to majority of the people.

There is nothing Kira and co can offer right now. They will use the same method from the last war and disable the enemies weapon. If it was indeed effective, then why is there another war?

His method just only hauled the last war, and what do you know. Another war is occuring. So if he stops this one, there will without a doubt another war coming.
But in real life it is these corny speeches that usually garners more support...

Not only that but if memory serves me right most of the gundam shows I watched had quite a number of corny speeches(well at least for me)


Corny speeches with lies and etc win when it comes to politics. However, that doesnt apply to Kira n co, unless they r really lying. You can easily contrast between teh speeches done in teh anime and reality. In Kira's case, his way of speaking is very corny. He obviously dont have a solution to end the war, but keeps going on that they must STOP Gill.

I don't really get your point here. So what if they cannot eliminate jealousy and hatred? What does this have anything to do with winning the war?

I already wrote it ... maybe u should take the time to read it. The coordinators that was responsible of Junius 7, still believes in Chairman ZAla words. So in addition, they cant live until justice is prevailed for their love ones. So ok, if Kira and co wins the war, they cannot take away the ppl's sorror, hate n etc. Thus, another war will come.

[Chillin]

at the moment i'm finding it really hard to understand what everyone is fighting for in the series, it all seems just that little bit to idealistic and trying to hard to be profound, for me. All this bullshit that comes out of lacus's mouth is really annoying, its hard enough to understand than to actually pic up on what she is realy trying to say, what she said to Athrun just before he gets I-Justice was just laughable. And is it just me or is all this gasping that every character seems to do when someone else says something somewhat important really annoying?


It's not you ... ive been getting fed up by those corny speeches done by Kira and co. Can they really win this war? I dont think so, it's within the human instinct that there will always be jealousy, hate and etc. And those coordinators in GSD that was responsible of junius 7 is a prime example. And imagine what will happen when 2 PLANTS were destroyed. 2x the hate ....

Ya, i was laffing my butt off when Lacus told Athrun by saying, "but ur Athrun arent you?" My god, Athrun get so persuaded so easily

They fight because they have hope in the human race. That is, they wish for ideal situations in a non-ideal world. Let people have the freedom to reach things in their own way and not be constricted to one particular thing. You could be really good in something, but hate doing it in comparison to this other thing you're not so good in. As I understand it that wouldn't matter in the Destiny Plan because your genes are manipulated to fit the quota of a certain task. You would never be able to experience anything outside of what you were basically programmed for (that is if you wish to pursue something else in life), and would be inept at any other task. People would be free of (maybe programmed not to feel) envy, greed, and all those other things that drive them to conflicts. The Destiny Plan (supposedly) creates the ideal world full of ideal situations. To speak of ideals in this show you would have to put the Destiny Plan at the top. Putting this plan into motion would give rise to new conflicts and it's not just ORB I'm speaking of.

I'm not quite sure how it all would work out since the whole nature of the Destiny Plan has not been revealed, but what of those who aren't born or altered under the plan? Those that don't want to be controlled under the plan? Are they disposed of? Now that's ridiculous to think that the transition from the world as it is known to the world created by the Destiny Plan wouldn't bring even more conflicts! Certain people aren't so gullible, and even more don't like the idea of being restricted and controlled.

You may not hear such talk coming from Dullindal, but if the Destiny Plan is just what we think it is then Dullindal is the most idealistic (and ambitious) of them all. There is probably something more to the plan that makes Dullindal not so much of an idealist like wiping out humanity in order to start his plan (which is just...wrong). We'll have to wait and see.

Ah S_P I know I'm late, but I'm going to miss you, stop back in sometime like when the show ends.

Anyone notice how our posts are getting absurdly long these days?

[SGLP]

If it was indeed effective, then why is there another war?


Because those in power wanted another war. Djibril and Dulindal's goals were both to start a war. They both got what they wished. Sure a select few want war and will try to get back at eachother, but those incidents could be handled.

Orb has the right idea here. Living together peacefully and coexisting. The Archangel crew is the force that tries to put this into action. I think things will be different this time since Achangel is actually apart of a military now. After the first war no one really had any clout because they were all ex-military and didn't really belong to any solid organizations where people would actually listen to them.

[Jh1stgen]

Because those in power wanted another war. Djibril and Dulindal's goals were both to start a war. They both got what they wished. Sure a select few want war and will try to get back at eachother, but those incidents could be handled.

Orb has the right idea here. Living together peacefully and coexisting. The Archangel crew is the force that tries to put this into action. I think things will be different this time since Achangel is actually apart of a military now. After the first war no one really had any clout because they were all ex-military and didn't really belong to any solid organizations where people would actually listen to them.

Exactly ... and im sure there will be ppl like Dijbril and Gill after this war. Like i said, it's within the human nature to be jealous ... and in this case it is the Naturals being jealous to the Coordinators.

The only way i can see true peace is if Cagalli represents the entire Naturals and Lacus as the represent to the coordinators

[Inquisitor]

So? The only reason most people do not like these forms of government is because they were brought up that way.

Ok, you are really starting to lose credibility. Do you know what repression and horrors occur under totalitarian regimes? I am trying not to descend into an ad hominem argument, but it should be abundantly clear that facism and totalitarianism are evil.


Whether he will succeed or not isn't the case here. Even if he is to fail some of his ideas might one day benefit the world in the future if done in a not so extreme manner. Heck it was because of Dullindal that Naturals are now able to accept coordinators which I am sure will really help the Clyne faction.

Umm, shouldn't a plan's probability for success be considered? It seems to me that you are being a wee bit too idealistic about Dullindal's plan. Also, gene manipulation already exists in Gundam SEED; Dullindal's plan is an extreme form of that. A less extreme version of his plan already exists.


Then would you have preferred that the society should not put up any legal system since after all they did not know what will happen afterwards?

Now you are obfuscating the issue. We are not discussing a purely legal system: we are debating a societal paradigm that would have vast implications. Also, when a law is debated, the possible effects of said law should be explored. If a law has a high chance of not working because of certain circumstances, then it shouldn't be adopted (since it would be useless). The Destiny Plan might very well not work because of the dark side of human nature (and human nature isn't purely determined by genes).


Well that's you, but I know a lot of people who wants to do something else but is forced to their current profession since they have no choice but to do this if they are to support themselves.


Now you're altering your earlier argument. Before you made a generalization about how people (you did not qualify it to be "most" or "some"), don't have much choice in things. I have shown you that I have a lot of possibilities and a lot of choices. Thus, your earlier assertion doesn't hold water since it wasn't qualified properly. Moreover, even what you presented in the above quoted material isn't convincing evidence for adopting the Destiny Plan. Remember, the Destiny Plan is about giving people jobs according to their abilities, not according to their desires. Let's just say that I am really good at painting houses. That is my best skill. But I am unhappy being a painter. Under Dullindal's plan I would be forced to be a painter since that is what I am best at.

We find this also reflected in the case of Kira. The Chairman talked about how Kira was supposed to be a great warrior, but now he is ruined. The Chairman thinks it's a bad thing that Kira didn't fulfill his "destiny."

Finally, this whole debate reminds me of a quote from Thomas Jefferson, "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous seas of liberty."

[Chrno]

Anyone else got a bad feeling Archangel might sink? I really don't want that to happen too ~_~;

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
So there's no way that the ppl would follow Kira and co at this rate. Even Miss Coniel and her fellow peers still follow Gill. That same concept is still applied to majority of the people.

If they were to expose all of Gilbert's lies and the cost of his crusade then most likely many people will change their minds.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
So ok, if Kira and co wins the war, they cannot take away the ppl's sorror, hate n etc
Who knows? Now that they know what will happen if they are to just hide and wait for changes, this time they might assume power and make sure that no extremist will gain enough power.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
I am trying not to descend into an ad hominem argument, but it should be abundantly clear that facism and totalitarianism are evil.
Then I would not try to convince you that Destiny Plan might be good seeing as how you already think that totalitarianism is evil.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Umm, shouldn't a plan's probability for success be considered? It seems to me that you are being a wee bit too idealistic about Dullindal's plan.
Yes you should consider success but what I meant in that response is that even if he is to fail some of his ideas might benefit the world in the future. Sorry if worded it so poorly.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor
Also, gene manipulation already exists in Gundam SEED; Dullindal's plan is an extreme form of that.
I am not only talking about that. He has other ideas aside genetic manipulation which might help the world in the future.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Now you are obfuscating the issue. We are not discussing a purely legal system: we are debating a societal paradigm that would have vast implications.
My mistake then.

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Now you're altering your earlier argument. Before you made a generalization about how people (you did not qualify it to be "most" or "some"), don't have much choice in things.
Yes, you are correct. I was supposed to change it but you already responded. So yes another mistake on my part:sad

Originally Posted by Inquisitor:
Finally, this whole debate reminds me of a quote from Thomas Jefferson, "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous seas of liberty."
Then I guess I am a timid man:sad

[staradderdragoon]

um, i dunno if anyone has already discussed this, but who is the kid sitting next to talia when that flashback occurs?

[BattousaiMS]

um, i dunno if anyone has already discussed this, but who is the kid sitting next to talia when that flashback occurs?

Her son that she had with the other man after she dumped Gil for being a non-reproductive :laugh . (No wonder he started to become a gene manipulator).

[staradderdragoon]

you mean his "thing" was like "fixed"? when did they explain that?

[BattousaiMS]

you mean his "thing" was like "fixed"? when did they explain that?
No i mean he cant be a papa so he decided to clone what he wishes (as a joke).

[SGLP]

The only way i can see true peace is if Cagalli represents the entire Naturals and Lacus as the represent to the coordinators

I think it can come through other means. It will be a lot easier once the 3 powers become more or less even.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by staradderdragoon:
you mean his "thing" was like "fixed"? when did they explain that?
No, I think it was because he and Talia are incompatible genetically. So that is why he cannot have an off-spring with her.

[3rdStrike]

Some reason, this turned out into a long never ending debate....

It would only work (if it is even possible for it to work) in a world where only Coordinators existed. However, if we all think back to SEED, Patrick Zala and Kleuze were discussing at one point how the newest generation of Coordinators had low birth rates. Zala assured himself that with their technology they could overcome the problem.

You know, from what you are saying 3rd strike, it seems to me that there is a strong possibility that Dullindal's proposition of the Destiny Plan will create a backlash. It is true that Djibril's actions have descredited Blue Cosmos in the eyes of the majority of the public, but the masses can be fickle, and there is no telling exactly how people will react to the Chairman's plan.

Backlash? I guess so, but who knows? Well this is really stupid example, but take the Chinese Cultural revolution or like communism as an example. I mean people were frustrated how things were unfair, thus supported communism. That's why you see billions of Chinese people waving their little red book at the TianAnMen square in front of silly Mao. (Or probably the Chinese were a little silly back then) Who really knew that communsim turned out to be a full of crap, piled up with corruption that slowly ruins the state of a country. It's like the same here, people are really frustated that the war and the fight is not ending, thus the people start to worry and try to look for a solution, a leader and a future, which Dullindal has. But the public won't really bother to think about the consequences of Destiny Plan.

But meh.. again.. you never know. A human heart is always sitting on the fence....

No, I meant that why have they not used the technology to eliminate jealousy and greed that you say Dullindal will do?

It really sucks that I have to quote myself few pages back, but if you don't get my explanation, please forgive me as I haven't written an essay or anything constructive since my last exam...

Destiny Plan, to me, is like taking a further step in GENE manipulation. And even it is used in the first place, it only can be used for coordinators. THEN WHAT? In that case, all Coordinators don't have violence, hatred and jealousy in their nature while the Naturals do. Even though these vices are got ridden of for Coordinators, they still exceed the naturals in health and intellectually. Do you think the Naturals will accept and understand this fact? Not exactly since the Natural still inherits these vices.


Well so far Destiny Plan seems to be a system that will erase large-scale conflicts. I do doubt Dullindal is that ambitious to even bother eliminating the vices of humans.

And you're doubtful that he is that ambitious because...

In my opinion, he is. First off, he is a scientist, which really is a good reason that WHY he is ambitious. Secondly, he is a scientest that focuses on genetic modifications, which really is the thing in GS and GSD. By elimination the vices of humans that I mentioned, it shows that he has brought science, technology and genetic modifications to another level coming along with fame. Now how can people really resist the tempation of fame and being to live in history forever?

And yes, the Destiny Plan is a system that will erase large-scale conflicts but these large-scale conflicts are driven and frabicated from the vices of humans.

[Mindless]

you mean his "thing" was like "fixed"? when did they explain that?

The coordinator society is built upon natural selection mainly, rather than: "Will you carry my children?". :P

I believe Lacus and Athrun were matched together with this system in order to give birth to a new, strong coordinator generation, this might explain Athruns more or less cold attitude towards her at times.

That's how I think it was at least. My brain isn't really working because of this damn cold. :sad

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by 3rdStrike:
It really sucks that I have to quote myself few pages back, but if you don't get my explanation, please forgive me as I haven't written an essay or anything constructive since my last exam...
Actually I asked why Plants did not use the technology to eliminate these vices, sorry if I did not make it clear.

I completely understand your explanation it is just that I find it far-fetched for him to have invented a method to eliminate the vices of human nature, maybe he really has but so far I cannot say.

Originally Posted by 3rdStrike:
And you're doubtful that he is that ambitious because...

Because it is stupid to think that you can somehow eliminate all the bad traits of human beings and basically he is just going to make a fool out of himself if he is to do it unless he has DG cells or whatever.

Originally Posted by Mindless:
this might explain Athruns more or less cold attitude towards her at times.
But still he wanted Lacus. When he found out that Lacus went to Kira for comfort you will see in his face that he actually wanted her.

[BattousaiMS]

Actually I asked why Plants did not use the technology to eliminate these vices, sorry if I did not make it clear.

Because Sigel Clyne and other Clyne faction members were opposed to such drastic acts (which is genocide basically because when you remove 1 gene the person becomes deformed thus creates futher need to eliminate them and thus leads to genocide. This is the main reason why gene manipulation doesn't go beyond upgrading a gene).

PLANT was never up for that level of gene process. All they did upto now it was by vare necessities (such as the reproductive pairing for more child births).

I completely understand your explanation it is just that I find it far-fetched for him to have invented a method to eliminate the vices of human nature, maybe he really has but so far I cannot say.

Because it is stupid to think that you can somehow eliminate all the bad traits of human beings and basically he is just going to make a fool out of himself if he is to do it unless he has DG cells or whatever.

His plan is simple, since you cannot remove anger from humans the best thing to do is create a universal prison for all humans who will be prisonners of their own genes. With it, the person cannot revolt and fight, because he will be born and given only the information concerning his predestined job. He will be given either a naturally selected wife or a choice amongst a dozen naturally selected wives that will only be compatible with him if they turn out to be reproductive with him. He will live in a given location or given a choice of a few location to select and so on. Basically the person will be a prisonner but without being behind the bars, which will be social/intellectual restrictions instead of real life prison cells. If the person tries to go beyond what he is given a choice of, he will be considered trying to change his destiny and eliminated because he will be considered defective.

Now to make that perfect world requires a few things:
Option 1
Elimination of All human race (mostly all natural) apart a few selected samples by him (if he considered everyone is faulty). Then recreate the human race like he fits.

Option 2
Eliminate all that he considers defective human. Put the rest in a proto-Destiny Plan were they are simply given a job but the real DP starts from their newborns. Start the real DP from the newborns.

Either way there will be a genocide.

But still he wanted Lacus. When he found out that Lacus went to Kira for comfort you will see in his face that he actually wanted her.

Athrun was never interested in Lacus as a love interest. You can see from the first episode we hear they were fiancee. They had somewhat a brother-sister relationship.

That's why at ep.47, when Cagalli sees Lacus :glomp Kira, she asks him if that was okay given that she was his finacee. Athrun reply was "yeah, it was a political marriage anyway".

Lacus was hitting on Kira from the onstart though :laugh. The poor guy was like "cute girl" till he learns she is Athrun's fiancee and goes "shit".

[zeheero1982]

The coordinator society is built upon natural selection mainly, rather than: "Will you carry my children?". :P

I believe Lacus and Athrun were matched together with this system in order to give birth to a new, strong coordinator generation, this might explain Athruns more or less cold attitude towards her at times.

That's how I think it was at least. My brain isn't really working because of this damn cold. :sad


No, No, No! Kira is going to tap that Lacus butt, not Athrun. Athrun have enought Female dogs to go around!!!!:laugh

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Because Sigel Clyne and other Clyne faction members were opposed to such drastic acts (which is genocide basically because when you remove 1 gene the person becomes deformed thus creates futher need to eliminate them and thus leads to genocide. This is the main reason why gene manipulation doesn't go beyond upgrading a gene).

Is this true? Was there an official source to prove this?

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
His plan is simple, since you cannot remove anger from humans the best thing to do is create a universal prison for all humans who will be prisonners of their own genes.
While I do not believe the Destiny Plan is something so extreme that will erase all freedom. But even if Destiny Plan is what you say, what if it will bring happiness to the people?

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
He will be given either a naturally selected wife or a choice amongst a dozen naturally selected wives that will only be compatible with him if they turn out to be reproductive with him.
Seeing that it was this system that broke his heart and most likely it was this heartbreak that motivated him to formulate the Destiny Plan, I do doubt he would include this in the plan...

Originally Posted by BattousaiMS:
Athrun was never interested in Lacus as a love interest. You can see from the first episode we hear they were fiancee. They had somewhat a brother-sister relationship.

That's why at ep.47, when Cagalli sees Lacus :glomp Kira, she asks him if that was okay given that she was his finacee. Athrun reply was "yeah, it was a political marriage anyway".
Huh, he was not interested? I am sure he was quite unhappy when he found out that Lacus was no longer his fiance and see how sad he was when he saw Kira and Lacus together. Not to mention when Cagalli asked him his voice was filled with regret and bitterness. This is not somebody who only had a brother-sister relationship with woman, this is somebody who wanted to spend his life with that woman.

[3rdStrike]

:sleepy
This is seriously getting to nowhere... BUT... it's fun and I guess this warms my brain up for university! But I'll keep things short this time.

Actually I asked why Plants did not use the technology to eliminate these vices, sorry if I did not make it clear.

Well PLANT, Coordinators - same thing.


I completely understand your explanation it is just that I find it far-fetched for him to have invented a method to eliminate the vices of human nature, maybe he really has but so far I cannot say.

Fair enough.
But please remember everything in GSD is pretty far-fetched. The idea of Requiem is pretty pathetic and we got the stampeeder earlier on that cancels out all nukes. But hey it still worked in the CE world, so really it isn't really suprising that Dullindal has invented a method to eliminate the vices of human nature. :laugh :laugh


Because it is stupid to think that you can somehow eliminate all the bad traits of human beings and basically he is just going to make a fool out of himself if he is to do it unless he has DG cells or whatever.

To you and the people living in this very century (including me), it may sound stupid. But to those who live in the CE with technology advancing everyday... sure why not?

Meh... just keep in mind that you are watching Gundam. Everthing is possible when it comes to anime :wink

[staradderdragoon]

No, I think it was because he and Talia are incompatible genetically. So that is why he cannot have an off-spring with her.

so maybe thats why he created the destiny plan. i just had a thought, who is the guy in episode 39 when lacus is talking about the destiny plan. they show his picture on the screen in the eternal. did he like help dullindal make the plan up?

[Jh1stgen]

No that's the guy that was responsible for the Junius 7 being out of its normal orbit ...

[Hunter]

Originally Postd by staradderdragoon:
so maybe thats why he created the destiny plan.
Well I also think it was what motivated Dullindal.

Originally Posted by staradderdragoon
i just had a thought, who is the guy in episode 39 when lacus is talking about the destiny plan. they show his picture on the screen in the eternal. did he like help dullindal make the plan up?
No, I believe that guy was the one responsible for the Junius7 drop I think his was Sato or something like that.

EDIT:Got beaten.

[Wave]

okay i finished watching ep 46. twas okay. learned somethings. interesting things happened. yep


as for ep 47 that is totally F*CKED UP! what a waste of an episode =/ if you're a meer fan, then good for you. but this b/s i see next ep is a total waste. i do not need a DEDICATION EPISODE! i want ACTION! H-CORE MOBILE SUITS BLOWING UP! THOSE 4 DUKING IT OUT! THE DOMS GETTING THEIR ASSES KILLED BY REY! but nooo the hell. some ep 47..

[3rdStrike]

Totally agree with Wave.

Watched 46, it was a good episode with the most hilarious moments (can't wait for sub). And I love the ending.



First off, we got Athrun being a sissy here. Haha, how often do you see him pissed off?
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7425/0019bi.jpg

Second, we got Meer with poor grammar.

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/2297/0044ga.jpg

[Mindless]

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/2297/0044ga.jpg

ROFLMAO!

HAHAHAHA! They could at least get that right! LOL!

That's too funny, can't stop laughing! :laugh

[O-ushi]

okay i finished watching ep 46. twas okay. learned somethings. interesting things happened. yep


as for ep 47 that is totally F*CKED UP! what a waste of an episode =/ if you're a meer fan, then good for you. but this b/s i see next ep is a total waste. i do not need a DEDICATION EPISODE! i want ACTION! H-CORE MOBILE SUITS BLOWING UP! THOSE 4 DUKING IT OUT! THE DOMS GETTING THEIR ASSES KILLED BY REY! but nooo the hell. some ep 47..

This was posted on Gunota a couple of days back:

Phase-47 "Meer" - The Lacus assassination attempt using Meer was prevented but there was a sacrifice. Lacus' group returns to the Archangel and, reading Meer's diary, their thoughts linger. Meanwhile, Dullindal announces his "Destiny Plan" to an audience following the Requiem battle...

So it wont be just be about Meer.
BTW it was "Mission Kaishi" that was playing during the gunfight, the last time they used it was in the first ep when the druggies stole the mobile suits.
The memories............:amuse

[Mindless]

*cough* So, anyway.

Expect the preview within one or two hours. I've finished downloading soon, then I got to watch it and do some other stuff, then write the preview.

[Akirou]

Gawd, after episode 45, u'd think they'd add a lil something more.

45 was awesome, and 46 was just sooooo wasted. =/


Destiny does *suck* in my book. BUt that's just my opinion.:oh

[Laughing@you]

They just wasted an entire episode on Meer and as per the preview at the end 46 will be too. Is GSD really ending atepisode 50?

[3rdStrike]

46 wasn't that bad, at least it was better than 45, in my opinion. But I must admit that DESTINY is getting suckier. 34 was when things got excited and then... Fukada just torned all of us down with 45..... AH WELL.

Has anyone posted this yet?



http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/8561/finalbattleofgundamseeddestiny.jpg

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by mpmorph:
They just wasted an entire episode on Meer and as per the preview at the end 46 will be too.
You know people then were complaining about the lack of character development, now that they decided to develop a character people are still complaining. I guess you can't really please everybody.



As for this episode I liked it. The Archangel crew had more development in this episode than the rest of the series... But for some reason I still don't have any problems for Destiny and actually I am really enjoying the show...

[Mindless]

OK! I'm like... "What the f...!?" right now after the episode.

Anyway.

Don't read further if you don't feel like spoiling the episode.

Episode starts out with Gilbert having a conversation over a computer with some higher ranked officers about what has happened. Gilbert confirms that Djibril is indeed dead and that this may finally end this foolish war, and they compliment the moon fleet and the Minerva on their great work and how they deserve rest now after the battle.

Then we're off to see Shinn and Rey having some target practice with pistols on the Minerva. Shinn, as bad as always with his aim, and Rey always dead on. Then Lunamaria comes to watch. Shinn notices her and goes up to her and asks what's the matter. She says it's nothing special, and leaves. But Shinn follows her because he really wants to know. She tells him that she wanted to ask about Athrun and Meyrin, what really happened. But she insisted that everything was alright now.

Then the Archangel arrives at the spaceport in Copernicus (on the moon). When they land in the hangar, you see a very familiar ship next to it; the Kusanagi.

Onboard the Archangel, Athrun and Kira has a little conversation about various things that has happened. They talk about that Shinn was the one who piloted Impulse, but now pilots Destiny. Then Athrun says: "But really, I was surprised that time, I never could have imagined that you would be beaten by Shinn." -and Kira excuses that in the best (sarcasm) way ever: "That happened because I really wasn't sure about whether to fight against ZAFT or not." -I couldn't help but laugh when I heard that. :P

Then Kira continues saying that Cagalli didn't want to fight there against the Minerva, but rather escape from them. And Athrun says he was really surprised that the Archangel too got hit. But then he says: [I]"Maybe it was because of that I finally set myself straight, that 'this is wrong'." -and then Athrun says something I didn't understand, but followed up with: "In the middle of that is Shinn, who probably wont be able to 'get out' of there. He is also the type that will desperately fight for a dream.".

Then we're off to see Meer for a while, who is at a 'safehouse' in Copernicus. When I saw this part of the episode, I was like: "Man, I thought Stellar was a wreck, but this is something completely else...!" -she was singing to herself, and thinking about Lacus (the real one) appearing on TV, making Meer out to be a fake; a liar. Then her 'manager' (or whatever) comes along to try and encourage (more like manipulate) her. She talks to her in a way that makes the real Lacus out to be the fake, and Meer the real one.

Back to the Archangel. *Athrun goes 'LOCK AND LOAD'* -and puts a gun in a holster under his jacket. Then Lacus comes walking and talking (nice rhyme...) with Meyrin in the hall. She says: "It's been a while since I've been able to go outside." -and explains to Meyrin why she hasn't been able to go outside. Then they head off into town.

Back on the Minerva, Mwu and Murrue are left alone. Then Mwu starts to fool around. Like: "Aren't you a bit dissapointed that they left? Now you can't go out and take a breath." -and tells her how troublesome it must be to have all these people around her all the time, and Mwu gets a little flashback to Stellar, Sting and Auel. But Murrue says she's fine. Then Mwu starts fooling around again: "Anyway, let me escort you!" *places hand on Murrues hip* - "Eh...!?" - "Let's go take a bath... together." - "What...? Wait...!" - "After all, you might be a different person."[/] - [I]"Eh? Am I?".

Loved that part. :P

Then Athrun, Kira, Lacus and Meyrin finally arrives in town. And Lacus says that it's her first time in Copernicus. It's Meyrin's first time too apparently. They go straight to shopping, to get some clothes for Lacus. Then Kira tells Athrun: "Don't be that upset." - "I'm not upset...!" - "Just a bit fired up..." - "Isn't that the same?" -then Athrun starts about how taking Lacus out here is stupid in the first place and as soon as Athrun mentions her name she goes: "Yes?" -then Kira tells Athrun it's alright, and that he no longer has to worry about everthing himself.

Then Lacus starts trying on some clothes. She tries on some dress, not too flashy, not to casual, a dinner dress, and asks: "How is it Kira?" -and Kira answers: "Yes, it looks good." -then she tries on some other clothes. A short black dress of some sort with a red jacket outside. Again, she asks Kira: "How does it look?" -and he simply answers: "I think it looks good." -then Lacus get's angry at him and says: "Looks more like 'whatever' to me." -then Kira tries to defend himself says: "I didn't mean it like that...". Athrun notices someone watching them on the upper floor in the store, who gets out of sight fast. Then a red haro comes jumping around with a note in it's mouth. Athrun goes: "This is Meer's...! -then comes the world famous picture (from now on) that says: "Help!! I'm going to killed Ms. Lacus!" -Athrun gets nervous and thinks something might happen to her. They come to the conclusion that it's most likely a trap.

But then, Lacus says that she wants to meet with Meer. Kira agrees. Athrun is like: *sigh*.

They go to the place where Meer is, and Athrun confronts her first, with a gun in his hand, he points it at Meer. Athrun tells her he knows this is a trap of some sort, but that this is your (Meer) final chance, that's why he came. Then Lacus, Kira and Meyrin steps out too. Lacus says: "Good day, Meer-san." -Meer goes: "Lacus-sama...!?" -Lacus tells her they got her letter, and tells her to come along with them, but then, Meer gets all psycho about it, she almost looks like Fllay when she had her bad days (all the time) and starts screaming: "That's me! It's me!" -she's too brainwashed from all their talk about herself beeing Lacus, that she actually thinks she is. A rather terrible fate in my opinion...

Anyway. Then Lacus puts on her 'I'm so nice no one can refuse me'-side, and talks to Meer untill she calms down.

Then Tori comes flying. And Athrun notices something in the bushes up on the hill. He shouts: "Lacus!" -and grabs her and takes cover. Then Meer's nice manager, that Orange haired chick with the funny glasses and green clothes along with some guys in black suits and heavy arms appear. They start shooting at them, and Athrun goes into Ninja Mode (trust me, he really does), and starts jumping around all over the place, killing guys here and there. Then he hits that manager-chick in the arm and she runs for cover. Meanwhile some random thug throws a grenade at he place where Kira, Meyrin, Lacus and Meer was. They jump for cover. Then the manager-chick runs up and takes out a grenade and throws it at Kira and them, Kira manages to hit the grenade and shoots it back at the manager-chick. It blows up a few feet away from her and she gets injured alot. Mwu then comes flying in Akatsuki to get them out of there.

But that manager-chick just refuses to die. As Lacus steps up on Akatsuki's hand, this manager-chick takes up her gun and starts pointing it at Lacus. I first though Kira would get some sort of super-newtype premonition and use his powers to kill her, but no. Meer sees the manager-chick pointing her gun at Lacus, and she screams: "Watch out!" -and you hear a gunshot. Then everyone goes *GASP* and sees Meer falling down in the most spectacular way I have ever seen. It's better than any dancestep she took while on stage. She makes like a 360 degree turn before falling down. Athrun shoots the manager-chick dead. While Lacus shouts: "Meer-san!" -and lift her up a bit from the ground.

Then Meer says something I didn't really get, but something around the lines of: "Don't forget me...!" -and she takes out a picture of her old self from her handbag (why would she have that so much in handy anway? :huh), and gives it to Lacus. Lacus says: "What a kind face... is this you?" -Meer nods. Then Athrun goes all: "Meer!" -and Kira tells Mwu to take her to the Archangel, but alas, it is too late.

/Meer goes *death*

Hm... what more need I say? I was like: "What the hell?" after the episode. It was the worst one in quite some time now, and trust me, next weeks episode is a joke. ANOTHER recap episode, this time with Meer in it. Jesus christ...

[Chopstickx]

thx for summary this time Mindless. i think you were out of it last week :laugh

omg wtf! there are only like what, 4 eps left? does Fukuda think its funny to just drop another recap on us at the last second? eps one on Meer too -_-

i havent seen the eps yet, but i watched the preview for 47 and man...
previews here btw if anyone hasnt watched it yet:
http://mbs.jp/gundamseed-d/bb/gundamss47_.asx
http://mbs.jp/gundamseed-d/bb/gundamss47_.ram

[NejiHinata]

You know people then were complaining about the lack of character development, now that they decided to develop a character people are still complaining. I guess you can't really please everybody.



I'm still complaining because episode 45 of 50 is NOT the place for a whole episode of development. We are supposed to be rising towards a climax, not taking sidesteps along the way. But no, Fukuda is going to waste two episodes in what he thinks is rectifying the mistakes he made with Fllay. Not realising that everyone has already forgot about his Fllay rewrites due to all the bigger mistakes he's made in handling the characters he created for Destiny. That's why I'm still complaining.

[Chopstickx]

^plus does anyone really want Meer to be developed outta all people? =\
any hands...?

[darksage78]

Man 45 kicked ass, and I was just thinking that Fukuda would try to make up for GSD by giving it a great ending... but man was 46 a complete waste!!! The only evident piece of information in that ep was that Meer looked really ugly in the past...

[k_e_i_k_u_n_1_7]

2 words
die fukuda....

he will resurrect meer and give her a mask.

will it really end @ 50?

[Chillin]

Athrun was acting really pissy in this episode. You can't blame him; he didn't want to get shot and what have you, but damn he just had an attitude that wasn't welcome. Meer had the craziest, most overdramatic reaction from getting shot. Bah! I liked this episode. It was nothing special but it wasn't bad either. Next episode should be interesting. I really don't think it will be a total recap episode judging from the spoilers.

I just hope reading this diary of hers doesn't take half the episode if it has info we already know about. If it contains some info about Dullindal and his real plans I'm all for it.

[SGLP]

Out of all the things that could be done with the 46th and 47th episodes we get this. I'm having a hard time coming to terms with this. There are a lot of things I would have rather seen, or that I feel should have been shown. I've pretty much lost all hope for this series after that whole EDITED episode or whatever. Oh well hopefully the finale will be action packed.

[Bleachsuki]

just watched phase 46. it was good. i liked the part where lacus is trying all the clothes and kira just kept saying it's good and she gets mad a little. that was so cute. But what the hell is phase 47 going to be? a recap episode of meer? i thought they were like done with those? are they really going to finish this in 50 episodes? i mean after phase 47 of meer's story then there is 3 episodes left for action and stuff. in my opinion that is not enough. seed had like 10 episodes of non stop action near the end. so far GSD sucks. But wait what if there making a movie? since i dont think it's going to be enough episodes unless fukada is going to squeeze all the climax and action in 3 episodes
Edit
oh i forgot to mention. Kira actually shot a gun in this episode! this has to be like his first time shooting a gun. unless he did it somewhere else where they didnt shot it but suprised to see kira shooting a gun since we never ever saw kira shoot a gun before good for him.

[3rdStrike]

You meant 46, I believe.

So we get 47 dedicated to Meer and Dullindal's little plan. [Trashtalk]

We get some action for 48 since Dullindal finishes off the EAF in that episode and Archangel fights back and some reaction of the public towards the Destiny Plan [Action]

We get 49 dedicated to Rey, so it's going to be half recap and half action. [Half Trash - Half Action]

50 in undecided yet... so we don't know... but most likely trashtalk since they've been trashtalking all along in GSD.

[Jh1stgen]

This is so gay ... if GSD is really gona end at epi 50. Wtf are they wasting episodes ...
lots of ppl died during the invasion in the moon and Kira and co go out and have sum fun time? Wow ... i thought Kira n co's have corny speeches, but this hits the cake.

[Laughing@you]

You know people then were complaining about the lack of character development, now that they decided to develop a character people are still complaining. I guess you can't really please everybody.



As for this episode I liked it. The Archangel crew had more development in this episode than the rest of the series... But for some reason I still don't have any problems for Destiny and actually I am really enjoying the show...

Dude you got it wrong is not that we complain about lack of character development is actually no character development at all.....and to try it so late in the game is like saying......Oh I forgot to do character development let me squeeze it in right about the end of series.

The episode showed us a couple of things:

1) Dullindal assasins have no aiming skills.
2) Athrun is better fighting with a gun that he is with a gundam. All the assasins had the higher ground, long range guns and Athrun took them out with a 45. I mean he should audition for Miami Vice.


Thats it for me!!...Now bash away!

[Mindless]

Athrun is better fighting with a gun that he is with a gundam. All the assasins had the higher ground, long range guns and Athrun took them out with a 45. I mean he should audition for Miami Vice.

Wow, I couldn't agree more. Hopefully though, we will see some nice action from Athrun in Infinite Justice in the final episodes. But I wonder... how will they be able to get in a good climax + build up to climax in these last few episodes?

They might actually make a 3rd SEED-based gundam, simply because of all the shortcomings Destiny has had, and will have. Hopefully, I will be proven wrong, but sadly, I don't think I will. :sad

[Jh1stgen]

I have a feeling that they will rush the few remainding epis. Similar to what happened to Inuyasha >.>

[Mindless]

Similar to what happened to Inuyasha >.>

Oh yeah... that was sad...

"And we will continue fighting Naraku, and we will win!"

*cough* :amazed

[Chillin]

*sigh* Well Minerva and the rest of ZAFT DID take down the main EA base in one episode. I wouldn't be surprised if they can wrap things up in two episodes between ZAFT and ORB. I REALLY don't think episode 47 or 49 will be a recaps. That's just not possible. We might have a few flashbacks in 47 at most.

[Chrno]

Meh destroying the moon base is no big deal..its been done before..lol.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Chopstickx:
^plus does anyone really want Meer to be developed outta all people? =\
any hands...?
*Raises hand*


Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Wtf are they wasting episodes ...
lots of ppl died during the invasion in the moon and Kira and co go out and have sum fun time?
Since the Earth Alliance can now be considered defeated with the only major powers left are Zaft, Orb and to some extent the Clyne faction, not to mention the tension between Naturals and Coordinators are not as high as it was back in Seed. I think it would make perfect sense for them to be able to find some free time.


Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Wow ... i thought Kira n co's have corny speeches
Well since Destiny was supposed to be a homage to Zeta I kinda expected it will have boring and corny speeches like in Zeta(For me it was).


Originally Posted by mpmorph:
Dude you got it wrong is not that we complain about lack of character development is actually no character development at all.....and to try it so late in the game is like saying......Oh I forgot to do character development let me squeeze it in right about the end of series.
No, I was just pointing out irony of the situation. Please take no offense in it.

[Jh1stgen]

Since the Earth Alliance can now be considered defeated with the only major powers left are Zaft, Orb and to some extent the Clyne faction, not to mention the tension between Naturals and Coordinators are not as high as it was back in Seed. I think it would make perfect sense for them to be able to find some free time.


What da hell are u talking about ... there are more casulaties in GSD than in seed. So how does the result in less tension?

No, actually its the other way around. Due to the situation their in (kira and co), more pressure is applied bc now Gill is considered the most powerful leader

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
What da hell are u talking about ... there are more casulaties in GSD than in seed. So how does the result in less tension?
It means that Naturals are now able to accept coordinators and the two sides are not as hellbent on killing each other as they were back then, understand?

Originally Posted by Jh1stGen:
No, actually its the other way around. Due to the situation their in (kira and co), more pressure is applied bc now Gill is considered the most powerful leader
But since there are no more big threats other than Zaft and Plants is still recovering from the damage that were inflicted upon them. Gilbert could not really act in the same way they cannot act because they will look like they are in the wrong if they are to initiate things.

[Jh1stgen]

it means that Naturals are now able to accept coordinators and the two sides are not as hellbent on killing each other as they were back then, understand?

That's pretty bias and u dont backup with any actual facts ...

How can the Naturals accept the Coordinator? It's within the human instinct to be jealous, and that is why the Naturals dont accept the Coordinators (majoirty).

I've already said this, and it seems you dont take that into account. December 7 n 8 and Januarius 4 have been destroyed resulting in MANY casualties. So ppl that related to the fallen ones, will have grudges toward the Naturals.

GSD gives us a bigger perspective that if you kill someone, the ppl that relates to em' will hate the ppl that killed their love ones. So lets see, it shudnt be a surprise if that principles applies to all the ppl in the Heaven's Base, December 7 n 8, Januarius 4, the moon colonies and etc. In additon, there will be people that can relate to Shinn's sorrow.

So are you telling me that they (Naturals and Coordinators) will forget what happened to their love ones and live on with their lives? The day that happens, is the day when Lacus becomes the main villian.

So no, i do not understand

But since there are no more big threats other than Zaft and Plants is still recovering from the damage that were inflicted upon them. Gilbert could not really act in the same way they cannot act because they will look like they are in the wrong if they are to initiate things.

IT'S only PLANT! Not ZAFT! There is a big difference between the two (which Lacus in Seed pointed out). So basically ZAFT's army isnt hurt. Just their homeland. So it's something for Kira and co to worry about.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
That's pretty bias and u dont backup with any actual facts ...

It seems that you do not take into account the fact that so many Naturals chanted Dullindal's name. Not only that but you also forget the fact that these Naturals were the ones who persecuted Logos and that most of the EA has already joined Zaft. And despite the fact that people found out that they were being fooled by Dullindal about Lacus, there are still those that support him. So I have to say they are not as hellbent on killing each other as they were in the past.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
So are you telling me that they (Naturals and Coordinators) will forget what happened to their love ones and live on with their lives? The day that happens, is the day when Lacus becomes the main villian.
No,they won't forget it but I doubt that they would do anything as radical as wanting to eliminate the other side.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
IT'S only PLANT! Not ZAFT! There is a big difference between the two (which Lacus in Seed pointed out). So basically ZAFT's army isnt hurt. Just their homeland. So it's something for Kira and co to worry about.
Zaft is Plants militia, I hope you are aware of that... So if Plants is heavily damaged then it also incapacitates Zaft's ability to wage any skirmishes...

[Jh1stgen]

It seems that you do not take into account the fact that so many Naturals chanted Dullindal's name. Not only that but you also forget the fact that these Naturals were the ones who persecuted Logos and that most of the EA has already joined Zaft. And despite the fact that people found out that they were being fooled by Dullindal about Lacus, there are still those that support him. So I have to say they are not as hellbent on killing each other as they were in the past.


Those Natural chanting was BEFORE December 7 n 8 and Januarius 4 was destroyed, and BEFORE the EA's moon base was attacked.

And beside, those weren the majority siding with the ZAFT forces back then ...

Even if the Naturals still side with Gill, what makes you think the coordinators will be so friendly what happened to their homes?

No,they won't forget it but I doubt that they would do anything as radical as wanting to eliminate the other side.

They wont forget, but take no action ... so if they take no action, what makes you think they will want to coop with one another?

Zaft is Plants militia, I hope you are aware of that... So if Plants is heavily damaged then it also incapacitates Zaft's ability to wage any skirmishes...

Go rewatch Seed when Lacus is taken captivity in the AA and come back with a response. ZAFT and PlANT are completely different.

Ok Plant is dmged ... so this is more the reason why Kira and co cannot take a vacation bc anger has taken its toll on teh coordinators

[Laughing@you]

Remember people.....there could never be peace between the ppl from earth and space......you know why?......Cuz peace means no Gundam series.....


I don't know about you but....let the war continue I'm with LOGOS!....More Gundam....More Gundam!!.....

[Hunter]

Originall Posted by JH1stGen:
Those Natural chanting was BEFORE December 7 n 8 and Januarius 4 was destroyed, and BEFORE the EA's moon base was attacked.
And how are you so sure that Gilbert has already lost support? For all you know because of the Requiem he will garner even more supporters who wants the Logos eradicated.

Originally Posted byJH1stGen:
Even if the Naturals still side with Gill, what makes you think the coordinators will be so friendly what happened to their homes?
Maybe because Gilbert has given them someone to blame? Now that Djibril is dead they will feel that they have completed their revenge.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
They wont forget, but take no action ... so if they take no action, what makes you think they will want to coop with one another?
They do not even need to participate, as long as they do not do anything bad then there will be no problem.


Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Go rewatch Seed when Lacus is taken captivity in the AA and come back with a response. ZAFT and PlANT are completely different.
Huh? Zaft is different from Plants in the same way USA's military is different from USA and here is proof.

Quoted from GundamOfficial.com:
Zodiac
Alliance of
Freedom
Treaty
(ZAFT)

The military forces of the PLANTs. ZAFT is a militia made up of civilian volunteers, and the organization has no formal rank structure
Regardless of what Lacus said. This is what ZAFT is.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Ok Plant is dmged ... so this is more the reason why Kira and co cannot take a vacation bc anger has taken its toll on teh coordinators
Tell me what can they do in Plants?

[Jh1stgen]

And how are you so sure that Gilbert has already lost support. For all you know because of the Requiem he will garner even more supporters who wants the Logos eradicated.

I can easily say it for you vice versa ...

He will get more support from the Coordinators, the ones that "actually" got hurt in the progess from the Reqieum was PLANT, not the Naturals. So why would Gill gain more supporter from the Naturals?

The Naturals that sided with Gill attacked the mansions of the leaders of the LOGOS. Did u see them attack the EA? EA at that time had the right to retaliate bc their perspective of the Junius 7 incident was due to because of ZAFT. The only reason why the EA got attacked was bc they took Dijbril as refugee. Do you actually think the ppl that sided with GIll want to kill their own kind? And imagine that fault they feel now bc their former comrade, friends, family n etc have been killed? So i dont see why there would be an increase of supports from the Naturals

Maybe because GIlbert has given them someone to blame, now that Djibril they will feel that they have completed their revenge.

Director Asreal was responsible for the nuking on Junius 7, did the coordinators feel that their vengence has been laid down? No ...

Huh? Zaft is different from Plants in the same way USA's military is different from USA and here is proof.

Ok ... i already know and agree that the militants are from PLANT. But when u said ZAFT forces were weaken ... that i concur. ZAFT military power hasnt decreased, or rather it shud increase. The reason why Athrun and Nickoel (sp?) joined ZAFT was bc of Junius7, so it shudnt be a surprise if ppl like those 2 join for those innocent lives that was taken away. The requiem didnt destroy any militant weapons ...

Tell me what can they do in Plants?

When did i say they shouldve went to PLANT? It's too bait for them to go anyways.

And it's contradicting as well. At the moment, situation is very tight. Yet they have a time off and they claim they want to prevent the war. Can you see the picture? It's kiddish talk .. that is why i dont like Kira n co 's corny speeches

[Mith252000]

Okay, people, aren't we overanalysing the situation? I am having an headache reading the arguments which is so long. Oh well, have fun arguing guys. Anyway, the episode is quite okay, I guess. :wink

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
I can easily say it for you vice versa ...
Precisely my point. So that is why I do not think you should have used this argument in the beginning.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
So why would Gill gain more supporter from the Naturals?
Because they saw that he is not actually their enemy and was the one who liberated most of the cities from EA.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Did u see them attack the EA?
Why should they attack the EA when they know the LOGOS were the responsible for all this in the first place?

Originall Posted by JH1stGen:
Do you actually think the ppl that sided with GIll want to kill their own kind?
I do not see any reason why they won't. Afterall in real life people are killing their own kind.

Originall Posted by JH1stGen:
Director Asreal was responsible for the nuking on Junius 7, did the coordinators feel that their vengence has been laid down? No ...
Difference is Patrick Zala focused his propaganda in hating Naturals while Dullindal focused his on making people hate Djibril and Logos.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
Ok ... i already know and agree that the militants are from PLANT.
Then what was the point of referring me to Seed?

Originall Posted by JH1stGen:
But when u said ZAFT forces were weaken ... that i concur. ZAFT military power hasnt decreased, or rather it shud increase.
But you are forgetting the damage that has been done to their manpower and not to mention allocating their resources and some of their workers to help rebuild Plants than focusing on the war effort. Even if they are to wage a war. Their soldiers would have low morale after seeing their country heavily damaged.

Originall Posted by JH1stGen:
When did i say they shouldve went to PLANT? It's too bait for them to go anyways.
Sorry wrong question. I was supposed to say what do you think they should be doing.

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
And it's contradicting as well. At the moment, situation is very tight. Yet they have a time off and they claim they want to prevent the war. Can you see the picture?
So far the only things I could see that they could be doing are gathering resources repairs and maintenance. These are tasks that you can entrust to your subordinates don't you think.

Tell me how does taking a break contradicting with wanting to end the war? If there is a cease fire there are soldiers taking a break.

[Jujubie]

man so many arguments. anyways, dl hiro: http://bt.nanashi-fansubs.com:2710/torrents/83132e7f158008185bd1b7df5ed0ae16f2858b7f.torrent

[Jh1stgen]

Yeah .. the whole point of forums is to debate, and i enjoy that. But this is going nowhere, having deja vu with debating with LOTU. So ima stop and drop this topic. Think of this whatever u will

[Rakumaru]

You boys and your arguments >.< Anyways I cant wait to see Akatsuki with dragoons. That is gonna be fun to watch :P. ALso how many people do you guys think died combined between the destruction of the plant colonies. I also was thinking that there must be close to a hundred of those colonies. Zaft does have alot of man power. :blink

[Jujubie]

For direct dl: [Hiro]_Gundam_SEED_Destiny_Phase_46_[1A1A6767].avi on Fast Gigabit HTTP Server for Direct Download @ http://www.blood-moon.com/gsd/ - Enjoy and thank Infiniti for this site.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rakumaru:
I also was thinking that there must be close to a hundred of those colonies.
If I remember correctly, it was something like 120.

Originall Posted by Rakumaru:
Zaft does have alot of man power.:blink
Actually ther man power will most likely be the same to that of a single nation. Most likely 30 million while EA has about 6 billion. So no I don't think it is alot.

[dh19440113]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5848/meer6in.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=meer6in.jpg)

Gill sure knows how to choose Locus look alikes,:smile-big
You would think gill could have chosen someone that look like lacus to start with.
I mean the original meer doesn't look a thing like Lacus. I wonder what kind of plastic surgery meer went through to look like lacus.:amuse

Next week Ep is going to suck.:sad
A whole recap episode just to talk about meer, what is fukada thinking. :mad

[dh19440113]

If I'm not mistaken, Copernicus is a orb base.
Gill must have know archangel will be there, and use meer as bate to lure lacus out for the kill. Otherwise there would be no reason for meer to be on copernicus.

It look like gill the evil Puppeteer was the mastermind of everthing. The dooms day astroid, Jubril's intention to retaliate, tried to assassinate lacus, lie to everyone, and enforce the destiny plan. The only thing that didn't go his way is orb/ three ship alliance.:amuse

Gill kind of remind me of Napoleon, the way he manipulate the french people, and winning wars by tricking his enemies to do exactly what he wanted. The only thing that was out of his control was the russian winter, Admiral Haratio Nelson at Trafalgar and the duke of wellington at waterloo.:laugh

[Mindless]

Never underestimate the power of the 'EDIT' button. :wink

I wonder about the next episode though. The spoilers say that Lacus, Kira and Athrun reflect on what has happened with Meer and all that stuff. But the preview gave us the impression that it was just another recap episode, with only stuff we've heard and seen before, with the exception of some things.

But I still have to say, it dosen't look very promising right now. I mean. Four (4) episodes left and so much to do: Scrap some gundams, scrap some DOMs, eliminate the main badguy, etc. etc.

I can't see how Fukuda is going to fit all that in 4 episodes, and 1, possibly 2 beeing half-action/half-talk episodes.

What's funny is that the climax here, was in the last two episodes. Requiem destroying a big part of PLANT and then the Minerva taking it out, along with Djibril, the very person that made conflicts start. (Conflicts: Destroy, Alaska, ORB, destroying a big part of PLANT, etc.)

What will we have now? Dullindal kicking back in his nice chair in a room with all too many screens to look at, controling and manipulating what is left of the world, while Kira, Athrun, Rey and Shinn square it out in space between eachother?

The ending of Gundam SEED was so more intelligent. There they killed Patrick Zala in such a way that he was no longer the main threat. Raw now took that part. But what of Destiny? Who will take Djibril's place? I believe Gilbert mentioned someone in the latest episode (in the beginning of it) that might do something, but I hardly think it will be something of cataclysmic proportions.

Honestly, if it's going to end like this: Kira scraps Legend and kills Rey. Athrun scraps Destiny but Shinn survives. Mwu kills any random mobile suit that gets in the way. Rey wipes out the DOM pilots.

Then, to be honest, this will be the worst ending of any gundam I have seen. But then again, I may be proven wrong. I hope I will be... :oh

[darksage78]

You boys and your arguments >.< Anyways I cant wait to see Akatsuki with dragoons. That is gonna be fun to watch :P. ALso how many people do you guys think died combined between the destruction of the plant colonies. I also was thinking that there must be close to a hundred of those colonies. Zaft does have alot of man power. :blink

Actually, PLANTS can't carry all that many people. Mainly manufacturing and research. Plus there's usually like a piece of land with houses on it and then you get water all around it.

A new type of space settlement, created chiefly by Coordinators. Roughly 120 of these constructs are gathered at Lagrange point 5, a gravitationally stable area in Earth orbit, and these settlements have become a new homeland for Coordinators fleeing the persecution they experienced on Earth. As their name suggests, the PLANTs were created to serve as research and manufacturing sites, but their unique design also enables them to recreate a lush natural environment, with abundant vegetation and open water.

These hourglass-style structures consist of two disc-shaped living areas, each ten kilometers in diameter, which rotate around a central hub to produce artificial gravity. Each living area is anchored to the hub by a 30-kilometer central shaft and a network of high-tension strings, and a high-speed elevator runs up the central shaft to provide access to the hub. A set of external mirrors, attached to the central hub, are used to reflect sunlight into the inner surfaces of the living areas.

The PLANTs are grouped into twelve sectors, or "cities," each with its own scientific or industrial specialty. These cities are named after the months of the Roman calendar, and each is made up of roughly ten individual PLANT settlements, which are referred to as Januarius One, Januarius Two, and so forth.

@ Mindless, Fukuda hasn't done anything to surprise me in GSD. I'm used to be dissappointed by him now. :(

[me_is_david]

if next week is recap then thats retarded.
and if Legend and Destiny get trashed so quick then wtf.

Isn't the main gundam supposed to do good >_>
I hope at least S-F beats Legend and Destiny beats Infinite Justice and then its S-F and Destiny.

But seeing as how its Athrun and he shouldn't be beat now and we have seen none of Infinite Justice, that won't happen.

Really, I dno why I still consider Destiny as my favorite anime.
Plot wise, its pretty much sucking.
Maybe its cuz of all the other little things, Gundams, Characters, music.

and wow... when Meer got shot, did they really have to have her do that twirling thing at the end...
I was liek....:huh .......:laugh

[O-ushi]

Y'know I cant figure out how Gil is going to be defeated, We could end up with a "Norman Osborn" act, where his Destiny plan fails, but Gil somehow still remains in power.

[Chillin]

Yeah that spin by Meer was just...I want a gif of that or something.

[Mindless]

Maybe Gilbert will be 'overthrown' by his own people, something like Yzak's mother got by Eileen Kanaba (Siegel Clyne supporter-chick) back in SEED?

That might be a way to end Gilberts 'reign'.

Off to bed now... sooo sleepy...

[darksage78]

Night Mindless. Umm I'm not too sure how Gill's reign will end either, but I'm hoping that he won't go insane... Just hoping. Most evil masterminds kinda go crazy in the end. But its such a waste, if they didn't they could've stood a chance of getting their plan through.

[staradderdragoon]

im dL the episode right now. you gyus sound like the episodes is terrible....is it that bad?

[darksage78]

Hehe, just watch and you'll find out...

[Kiba-kun]

o.O I thought this episode was, on the whole, excellent. It had fluff, which GSD has been lacking (unlike SEED), and it had some really enjoyable action outside of MS for once - something that UC excels in, but AU tends to ignore. And it did make me care about Meer just a little bit.

But really, this series needs to hit about 55 eps to complete it.

[DevilB0i]

Athrun totally kick ass in ep46 no shit!!! If it was ground battle with guns arthun will own everyone including kira and shinn/rey. I was glad Meer died but after a while i felt kinda sorry for her .........hopefully she dont die but it seem she is a goner.

[SGLP]

I think Talia is going to take out Dulindal. It would be very fitting.

[ssouske]

for once i felt sorry for meer... damn... why did she hafta die when she started to change? anyway... i found the ep quite good... but i did not like the part where kira was oh so useless... he is so good in aiming when he is inside an MS. but he is friggin useless with a gun... good thing athrun was there... hehehehe! he took out almost every enemy in sight...:laugh

[Jh1stgen]

Phase-47, "Meer"

The assassin's bullet aimed at Lacus pierced Meer's chest when she covered Lacus. Kira and co could do nothing but watch over her as she breathed her last. As the corpse is carried over to the Archangel, Lacus finds a single disc in Meer's pouch. It was Meer's diary. Being selected to stand-in for Lacus who was absent from PLANT, meeting Athrun, having concerts, giving speeches, changing the world... Athrun hangs his head at the sorrowful journal of a singing-princess who purely wanted to sing for the sake of the world in Lacus's place. Then, Dullandal finally announces the start of the "Destiny Plan"...!!

So epi 47 is another all talk episode

So 3 more episodes left to rap the series ? And the battle between ZAFT and ORB didnt even start o.o

[Mindless]

The part with Gilbert explaining his 'Destiny Plan' might actually be something of value to the story and characters.

And as far as I know, there wont be a battle between ZAFT and ORB, simply a battle in space between the Archangel and the Minerva, and possibly the Kusanagi.

[Jh1stgen]

True ... but you think the series can be ended with just 48-50 (Battle in space?)

[Chillin]

Yes, it's very possible if they are to have one of those endings like SEED where it ends right after the battle. Mobile suit battles (especially one on one) don't last very long.

[Jh1stgen]

It's AA and who knows how many reinforcement they'll get vs ZAFT. I dont think it will be Minerva vs AA respectfully ... it wasn't like that in EARTH when AA tried to escape after the confrontation with Destroy.

GIll sees the AA as an enemy, and as well the "white queen." So to ensure a victory, Gill with deploy its units from ZAFT.

That is the thing that sux about 1v1 lasting not very long. If Shinn and Rey looses that fast, that would destroy the plot ... but i cant really see that happening

It's obvious Kira>>Shinn (Kira admitted that he wasnt attacking Impluse to his ability), and that Athrun>>Shinn too (Athrun in critical state was able to hold off Shinn). So i dont have much high expectation of Shinn (but it's really stupid, Fukada claimed that Shinn was the main character).

However Rey is different, and it's something that Kira will have a hard time...

There's still a matter how Gill will be thrown from his seat by Lacus...

So you think this will be all done from 48-50?

[ssouske]

i think were expecting an after battle ending for GSD because GS ended that way... i think it can be good if we get a different ending... but it is gundam so i dunno... for phase 47 to be a recap is just plain wrong... to be more precise, its just soooo stupid... they're doing a recap very late in the series... if they do it, it means that they killed a lot of characters including djibrill and the 3 druggies/extendeds a bit too early... and now they are completely out of ideas...:mad i just wish GSD will end properly... heck they even ran out of eps in GS... they really ended GS with an OVA right? so why suddenly run out of ideas for GSD?

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by JH1stGen:
It's obvious Kira>>Shinn (Kira admitted that he wasnt attacking Impluse to his ability), and that Athrun>>Shinn too (Athrun in critical state was able to hold off Shinn). So i dont have much high expectation of Shinn
Regardless of who is better. It will depend on the circumstances of their battle.

Originally Posted by ssouske:
for phase 47 to be a recap is just plain wrong... to be more precise, its just soooo stupid...
I don't think it is a recap. Probably it is similar to Ep.44 when the title was "Two Lacuses".