Let's Hate America & These Wars in the Middle East

[Aldredian_Sahn]

First off, I'd like to say that it seems like a lot of the world doesn't care much for us USAers. Now, why is that? Because we're better off than a lot of others or is it that we have troops everywhere. I call forth people of all nations to discuss this matter. Why does the world hate America?

And second, what's up with this whole war thing in the middle east? I mean we have the USA and Iraq and then there is Israel and Palestine and there are those damn terrorists too. I hear a lot about the West side of the story, but not a whole lot from the East side. I'd like it for people to discuss the different views the two sides have. I'm curious and uneducated in all of this. The US paired up with Israel, right? And Palestine is against Israel, right? Didn't the people see it as a war against their religion or something? I'm actually very confused, because we have the Palestines and their suicide bombers. is that right? And then there are terrorists, but are they the same people? I thought they were from Iraq and Iran.

Well, discuss away peoples. It would be nice to hear views from all over the world both about America and the war in the Middle East.

[Raistlin-sama]

I don't like America, but I don't hate everything american either, now that would just be silly...

And no America is not really better of then a lot of European countires, like you have a lot more poor people, then say my country (not out of patriotism, I don't even like my own country, or at least not the gowerment...)

About the war in the middle east, yes the US is siding with Israel (Becoarse of all the rich judes in the US...) and that is part of the reason the muslamic world don't like you... But here comes in a bit of jalousy too, since you are better of then them. And also anger, since part of the reason (not all ofcurse) that your better of, is becoarse you are using them. But Europe is almost as much at fault for that though... But since they have already decided that the US is evil, they put most of the blame on you

[Freeks]

we dont hate america. but we dont love america either as u probably think we do. we dont want to go to america as americans think we do. i dont make any sence. but AMERICA IS NOT THE ONLY PLACE ON EARTH. THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLW AROUND AMERICA: I DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT AMERICA: CUS I DONT LIVE THERE: but if there whas something that would effect my country. then i would have to take interest. a swedish news-paper whent to NY with a world-map. americans hate iraq. but do they even know where it is? some people pointed at norway. some people even pointed at usa. its few in america who realy know whats going on.

[explicitkarma]

I don't believe people in other countries hate America because "we're better off." People just disagree with our foreign policy.

As far as the Middle East and Asia goes, ayesh.
You have tensiosn between Israel and the Palestinians, Pakistan and India, Syria and Lebanon, US and Syria, Iraq and US against the insurgency, US and Iran, China and Taiwan, and everyone against Al Qaeda. Then North Korea is like "fuck everyone one of you countries."

Who wants to start taking bets on WW3?

[Shikamaru-sama]

First off, I'd like to say that it seems like a lot of the world doesn't care much for us USAers. Now, why is that? Because we're better off than a lot of others

You just answerd half of your own question :wink

[Negative-Ion]

When your in a tough spot, you have to take some steps back and look at the big picture. Personally, im not interested in politics, nor religion, everyone can go worship a tree, a river or a mouse. If you dont like the way i live, keep away from me. If you dont like the way i dress, keep away from me. If you dont like the fact that where i live women have the same rights as men, dont move in my area. If you dont like the fact that i go to church only when someone gets married and not every weekend, then stay away from me. If you dont like my food, dont eat. If you dont like any of that, dont come in my house and put a bomb on my doorstep. I dont care about the way you live, nor i care about the way you treat your women, nor i care how many times a day you pray. thats your bussiness and not mine. But if you try to mess with my bussiness then why should i sit back and watch? ill go in the offensive and try to catch those that do me harm.

You should realize that war on terror is no different than the war againts international drug dealers. war on terror is no different than the war againts organized crime and mafia. war on terror is no different than war againts child molestation. What makes war on terror different so controversial is the fact that those who are being chased, claim that their religious and culture is prosecuted. That is not the case folks, there are millions of muslim and other religious groups in the U.S none of them is being prosecuted. terrorists are not dumb either, they know how to use propaganda too. U.S is not fighting Iraq, its fighting the people Iraq supports and have made Iraq their hiding place.

When a criminal leaves UK and goes to US for example, interpol and whatever other organization ask for the F.B.I's or CIA support, in order to catch the said criminal and vise versa when some criminal fleds U.S to some other country.

In the case of Iraq, Iraq did not want too cooperate and show support, now U.S will not be satisified with a "NO, we wont help you" They will invade your country, do what they would have done if you had cooperated, in the process remove the dictatorship and when their #1 goal is completed, they will leave. Then you can go back to living your lifes, and we can back to living our lives without having to worry about some retard coming in and blowing my house or killing my friends and family. thats unforgivable.


Like Richard Clarke said, the only way we can win againts terrorists is to educate the kids and people of those countries. If Osama is captured, the war will not end, someone else will take his place, some other fanatic organization will create havoc, the only way is education.

If things dont change, this will take place in the near future. http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php

[Niabingi]

what makes the war on terror different is ot that the victims claim that their religous cultural beliefs are being persecuted, the difference is that there has been no tangible evidence of the success of the war on terror and it seems to be all smoke screens. you talk about not being worried about being bombed well the pople of Iraq dont have the same privledge! what do you estimate to be the death toll of innocent Iraqi civilians since the U.S invaded? oh and please out of curiosity erm where were the weapons of mass destruction? the whole case that America and Britain used to justify the invasion of Iraq was as flimsy as a piece of paper!
The war on terror is an abstract concept and term what makes a terrorist? how do you find them? if it was as simple as you make out neg-ion then i doubt people would be so against it...

anyway aldredian Sahn its basically a matter of america trying to police the world or assert their authority and that beleif that america is the greatest country in the world...... these are things that cause people to dislike the U.S

[Negative-Ion]

Niabingi : i will ask you 1 question. If people dislike the U.S because U.S trys to police the world and assert authority. then do you guarantee than if the U.S stops policing the world, terrorist acts againts U.S will also stop? Not only U.S but againts other countries or againts other people and nations. Do you guarantee that? Im afraid you cant, its not the U.S that is causing the troubles, its the countries that dont want to negotiate and dont want to compromise, U.S so far had been acting as a referee.

[Niabingi]

well no i cant guarantee that the attacks will stopif the U.S. dont police the world! but I can also say that you, tony blair, george bush and whomever else cant guarantee that the attacks will stop WITH american policing the world (no matter how hard they may try) I honestly say that I feel no more secure or confident that terrorist attacks will stop with the U.S. policing or playing referee to the world cos it seems to me they have been doing an unsuccessful job and as i said their reasoning and justifications were flimsy at best....

[Negative-Ion]

It is better to act and face the consequences than let others decide your life. this is what U.S has done.

[Niabingi]

^in my opinion not when innocent lives are involved

[Neverfate]

America is a place ruled by dogmatic politicism and propaganda. I doubt that you could find such a vast majority of ignorant commoners as you can here. It is very difficult to find even a piece of the real truth in this country. Free speech allows everyone to form and publicize an opinion that has the appearance of truth but is based on nothing but circumstance. No, we do not hate Iraq. We hate jihads which we have dealt with since the early 20th Century. Israel is our lapdog. They may deny it but they might as well be a state. Americans have the habit of disliking any place that doesn't advocate the freedoms we do. Granted my country does have more poor people than most others, but that is not from lack of opportunity. The liberals in this country have made it possible for anyone to become successful in our heartless-yet-effective capitalist economy. Sure not everyone wants to be an American. Every place has its pros and cons. Only the strong survive well in this country, and the weak have the democrats to use as a crutch. It's not bad here. As far as the war in Iraq, we had perfectly good reasons to enter, and we had almost unanimous support. We were wrong. Still we saw injustice and made sure to stay and correct it. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of perfectly selfish reasons for our being in Iraq and I don't doubt most of them are right on the nail, but there are also philanthropic reasons for our presence. The war has lost much popularity here in the States because apparantly the whole of our nation forgot that people get killed in war, and not just the enemies. The truth is that the Iraqi war is probably one of the most successful engagements in U.S. history. We are liberating the people, securing rights for all involved, setting up a just government (which is the least we can do seeing as how we destroyed their previous one) and we've barely lost 2000 soldiers in the mix. Sure soldiers from other countries have died but the number is certainly acceptable. Those who can't accept this are obviously not aware of how war really works. I'm sure I'll be snapped at for saying these things, but eh, it's just the net right?

[bronzhawk]

For the people that say we have more poor people. What is your definition of poor? I know that our poor have it better off than say the poor in Africa. We may be worse off by pure numbers, but percentage wise I believe that we are better off than most of Europe. I believe that are unemployment numbers are between 5 and 6 percent, and I believe in Germany their unemployment is greater than 10 percent.

BTW, I agree with most of your post, Neverfate. A good analysis of the situation here in America. Although I would disagree with your assesment of liberals helping out the poor, but that is for a differnet thread.

[Raistlin-sama]

Well, what i mean is that you have more homeless people and more people who live in slum quarters, then a lot of european countries....

[BattousaiMS]

The problem with the USA is that they like to stick their butt in other peoples buissness and if they do go more peace they tend to take sides or exploit the conflit by using their military power and making the nations they helped pay for their expenses. They also like to colonize anywhere they go, not colonize like in the 1700, but American economy colonization and that's what got them sept. 2001. Their forign policy is so bad that they indicrectly make the nations they go to help bow down to them.

Just look at persian gulf war in 1990. After America kicked Sadaam's ass out of Kuwiet. They started to charge Saudi Arabia and Kuwiet for their expense and since then most of the industries of those countries is either held by an American company or is made by americans. They also tried to change thier cultures and stuff with their western life. That's really what ticked the people like Bin Laden, cuz they were seeing that America was buying their country out under the table while the rest of the world were not listening or not even paying attention.

This war on terror? It's the same thing, just think of it as Cold War II. It's obvious now that the only reason America went to Iraq was for it's oil. Iraq did not have any WMD not did Sadaam harbor any Al-Qaida terroristes. Heck Bin Laden hates Sadaams guts if anything he would bomb Iraq if US didn't piss him off.

Note that the Talibans and people like Bin Laden are US creations also they were paid (in weapons) to fight the Russians indirectly by the USA.

So why does the world hate USA? Simple it's a back stabbing nation that invades a contry in the name of peace and democracy and then tries colonizes its markets with their own.

[lekki]

You just answerd half of your own question :wink

I think Shikamaru-sama just pointed out where Americans go wrong :)
Reps for you.

[Neverfate]

I agree that American partisan politics is not something to put in this thread, thanks for pointing that out.

Battousai, apparantly you have found yourself caught up in the anti-Bush propaganda. I don't doubt that oil was a factor in our taking on Iraq, but there are and were plenty of other reasons to go into Iraq; reasons that were accepted and supported by the rest of the European nations. In the end, the other members of the U.N. didn't have the testicular fortitude to take the most direct and effective measures to remove the single most potent threat to and in the Middle East. To say that all other motives were a political blind to obtain Iraqi oil is simply ignorant. Check out some of the available information on our dealings with the Iraqi economy and their new government as well as our own national oil problem for more specific details. As for the U.S.'s 'economic colonization', our economic system is hard core. American entrepreneurs are hard knock, no nonsense, opportunistic freaks of nature with an almost complete lack of morals. Get used to it. Capitalism is a most effective system of trade and becomes more popular by the day. Why? Because no other system will allow a penniless beggar to become a billionaire through hard work, dedication, and a complete disregard for the others who aren't so willing or dedicated. It's a brave new world since even twenty years ago. I think it's gonna be very interesting. :cool

[zeoblade]

First off, I'd like to say that it seems like a lot of the world doesn't care much for us USAers. Now, why is that? Because we're better off than a lot of others or is it that we have troops everywhere. I call forth people of all nations to discuss this matter. Why does the world hate America?

And second, what's up with this whole war thing in the middle east? I mean we have the USA and Iraq and then there is Israel and Palestine and there are those damn terrorists too. I hear a lot about the West side of the story, but not a whole lot from the East side. I'd like it for people to discuss the different views the two sides have. I'm curious and uneducated in all of this. The US paired up with Israel, right? And Palestine is against Israel, right? Didn't the people see it as a war against their religion or something? I'm actually very confused, because we have the Palestines and their suicide bombers. is that right? And then there are terrorists, but are they the same people? I thought they were from Iraq and Iran.

Well, discuss away peoples. It would be nice to hear views from all over the world both about America and the war in the Middle East.

It seems your own justification governs your decision making. If you can't find a reason let alone real reasons to why the world doesn't favour your country then maybe more life and world experience is what you need. If you were better off, why are there so many problems? Your troops being in different places around the world only gives the rest of the world an idea of your intention. Action speaks louder than words no matter how you try to cover them up.

Maybe you should find a proper BBS on this topic, bringing "controversial and biased" issues such as this into the world of Nauto discussion only makes things unpleasant.

[Scorpio3.14]

People always dislike America for one reason or another. If America minds its own buisness, people get mad cuz America dosnt do enough. If America becomes proactive, we are butting into other people's buisness. Its become popular to dislike America, just like it was once and somewhat still is popular to make fun of the French in America lol There are far worse counties in the world that people could be focusing on, but they would rather focus on America's fault. We have to much poverty in America, yet there are countries with most of the countires money held in the hands of a small percentage of the population. Our government is too intrusive into people's life, yet there are countries where the government controls almost every aspect of people's lives. We are too religious, yet there are countries where people are persecuted for not believeing in the religion that the leaders of the country consider right. America isnt perfect, but then again no country is. America may be worse then some other countries in some areas, they may be better then other countries in other areas. People just like to focus on the negative aspects of the US because....welll.... its the US.

[Gipo]

A good read for you guys would be this book:

'Why do people hate america?' by Ziauddin Sardar and Merryl Wyn Davies. I only read part way through but its an eye opener to say the least.

I personally quite like America itself, so don't have much opinion on the matter either way :) But read the book, its interesting indeed!

[itachi_kage]

for anyone who hates the u.s. or disagrees with us:

the u.s. is the SOLE superpower left in the world, with a bunch of "middle of the road" allies. what would happen if we, as the richest country in the world, stopped helping, and stopped stepping in to ease tensions between muslims and jews? what would happen if we weren't there to tell people like suddam hussein that genocide wasn't going to be tolerated?

1. simply put, kids in non-democratic muslim countries grow up reading (in text books) how we are evil and lies about the world and their own history. i'm not saying that's the whole reason, but it's part of it.

2. we have rich, arrogant celebrities who symbolize this country. foreigners don't see us every day, so they go by what our celebrities and politicians do.

3. like it or not (for the person who stated this) the world does revolve around america. think about it. when was the last time a major event occurred in the world, and we weren't in the middle of it or aiding?

the bottom line is there are alot of ignorant people in the US and throughout the world. i don't know your country and you don't know mine. here's the analogy i always use:

IF THE BULLS WIN 6 CHAMPIONSHIPS IN 8 YEARS THEY ARE PROSPERING. THEY ARE THE BEST. EVERYBODY HATES THEM. EXCEPT THEIR FANS.

the same can be said for the U.S. we've been the best and richest for a looong time. of course people hate us.

[Fairady]

Please, would you do me a tiny favor? Turn off the damn tv and stop reading the newspaper. They're trendwhores and only report what will get them ratings, they no longer report much in the way of news unless they know it will get them viewers. For example; when was the last time anyone actually heard anything about the war in Afghanistan? Yeah, they're still fighting and dying there despite what some news agencies in America seem to believe.

Get online and look at news sites. Not just American news sites but sites from other countries too. You get a bit more perspective on things that way.

[itachi_kage]

Please, would you do me a tiny favor? Turn off the damn tv and stop reading the newspaper. They're trendwhores and only report what will get them ratings, they no longer report much in the way of news unless they know it will get them viewers. For example; when was the last time anyone actually heard anything about the war in Afghanistan? Yeah, they're still fighting and dying there despite what some news agencies in America seem to believe.

Get online and look at news sites. Not just American news sites but sites from other countries too. You get a bit more perspective on things that way.

wow you must be really smart, did you think you're the only person who knew that? if you actually watched cnn or msnbc or even fox news, you'd know they do report when something goes on. if a soldier dies in afghanastan, it'd be all over the news. obviously there is still fighting in afghanastan. not to be rude, but you sound like one of those anti-war anti-everything protestors that start riots because of your idiocy. hug a tree and burn a flag or whatever you do.

this is starting to get way off topic.

[Niabingi]

wow you must be really smart, did you think you're the only person who knew that? if you actually watched cnn or msnbc or even fox news, you'd know they do report when something goes on. if a soldier dies in afghanastan, it'd be all over the news. obviously there is still fighting in afghanastan. not to be rude, but you sound like one of those anti-war anti-everything protestors that start riots because of your idiocy. hug a tree and burn a flag or whatever you do.

this is starting to get way off topic.


american news is extremely biased, I check worldwide nes sites on the net just to keep up-to-date and when I was on hilday in the U.S. I was shocked at how one sided the news was....
as t your posts about america bein the centre of the world.... yeah im sure your probably right the rest of the world is just jealous and inferior america is the best at the moment :wink .... thats like saying on shows like Jerry Springer where the audience boos when the dirty skank comes on stage that in their hearts their actually jealous :notrust not quite.....

anyhow the post im qouting here I felt was rude and both of your posts seem as though they havent been well thought out and are painfully one-sided... not to be rude!

[Devonin]

If the United States wants to be the police of the world, fine. Just show the rest of the world the respect it deserves and just -SAY SO-

Honestly, had President Bush just come right out and said "We're invading Iraq because we think Saddam Hussein is a leader that doesn't serve our interests, so we're going to go replace him with someone who does." I'd still be against the War in Iraq, but at least I'd -just- be against the war, not against the war -and- the lying.

trying to hide behind humanitarian reasons for invasion just shows how little respect President Bush has for the rest of the world. I mean, yes, Iraq wasn't up to "North American Democratic Standards" in its treatment of it's citizens, but you know what? next to Isreal, it was and is basically the closest to it. You know who one of the worst human rights violators is in the Middle East? Saudi Arabia, who happen to be the US's number one ally there next to Israel.

If they are going to claim a "war on terror" lets see some US military presence in Ireland to deal with the rampant terrorism there.

If you want the opinion of a third year Philosophy/Political Science major as to why "the world hates America" It's because America is transparent, and pretending it's not. If we as other world nations want to be honest with ourselves, we have to admit that yes, the United States is basically the only super power left in the world. One on one, no nation could stand up to the US in a war, and if the United States decided it wanted to police the world, and set it up how it saw fit, there's very little the rest of the world could do to stop it.

What galls me, and I think a lot of people outside the US, is that the US goes on and on about how it knows it doesn't need the approval of the rest of the world to act, claims to want that approval, then continually acts without it anyway.

I mean, for a somewhat inaccurate, but sufficient analogy, the mob didn't bother pretending to be an actual insurence company, it just went into businesses and made it clear that a little cash would go a long way to making sure "nothing bad happened" They showed those businesses the respect they deserved, and just said "Hi, we're stronger than you, we're running this place, do what we say and it's business as usual, don't do what we say and we'll have problems."

Most people will point to the invasive nature of US foreign policy as the leading cause of hostility towards the United States, but I think the real problem is that the United States keeps trying to claim motives that are patently untrue, and thinking nobody will notice.

Claiming moral grounds on overthrowing Saddam Hussein, when everybody knows that the United States is basically responsable for his ability to come to power in the first place, having trained him and supplied him to fight Soviets is much like claiming to have saved your life by pushing you into traffic, then pulling you back out again.

If the United States government (And I strongly emphasize Government, as I really think the vast majority of American Citizens don't feel this way whatsoever) would just show the world some respect and come right out and say "Yeah, we know him being there is our fault, we're just going in to clean up our mess and put a more US-Friendly leader in there" the world would at least respect the honesty, and the anger would be a little more focused on the actual issue, and stop being about "Evil Empire America"

[Efraim Longstocking]

I think america should solve their own problems before they're trying to solve other countries problems. I looked at Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine and I find USA's gun issues ridiculous and the only reason it is a issue in the first place is because people are hidden the true facts by media and by politicians. My bet is that 90 % of the population of America doesn't have a clue what's really going on in their country. America is really acting like a ostrich nation. Afraid to take care of their inner problems they ''create'' problems outside the nation that media and politicians can focus on. This way, people can't see their own situation andnothing gets done about it. You see, if people would realize that, the politicians would have a problem.

I wouldn't be suprised if there were a conspiracy behind the 11th september attack. If Bush or/and some othe republican politicians were behind it and created a reason to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and other muslim nations. Blame it all on the Islam and nobody will care.

[BattousaiMS]

I agree that American partisan politics is not something to put in this thread, thanks for pointing that out.

Battousai, apparantly you have found yourself caught up in the anti-Bush propaganda. I don't doubt that oil was a factor in our taking on Iraq, but there are and were plenty of other reasons to go into Iraq; reasons that were accepted and supported by the rest of the European nations. In the end, the other members of the U.N. didn't have the testicular fortitude to take the most direct and effective measures to remove the single most potent threat to and in the Middle East. To say that all other motives were a political blind to obtain Iraqi oil is simply ignorant. Check out some of the available information on our dealings with the Iraqi economy and their new government as well as our own national oil problem for more specific details. As for the U.S.'s 'economic colonization', our economic system is hard core. American entrepreneurs are hard knock, no nonsense, opportunistic freaks of nature with an almost complete lack of morals. Get used to it. Capitalism is a most effective system of trade and becomes more popular by the day. Why? Because no other system will allow a penniless beggar to become a billionaire through hard work, dedication, and a complete disregard for the others who aren't so willing or dedicated. It's a brave new world since even twenty years ago. I think it's gonna be very interesting. :cool

Actually, I am not caught up in the Anti-Bush propaganda it's you who are caught in the Bush propaganda. George W. Bush did not recieve UN's authorization to attack Iraq because his proofs weren't complelling. He attacked anyway and the (UN) world accepted it to save their face from the humiliation that he caused them by directly ignoring and disobeying an order from the World Council.
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As for your bragging about the american economy, know this American economy would have gone bankrupt years ago (especially with the new defense budjets) but why didn't it? Simple, who controles the WTO, World Bank and IMF? Americans. Do you know that the country is so much in debt that if one of their money landers pulled its plug the American economy would tumble down to oblivion? Guess what the only reason why they are not pulling the plug is because they know that IMF, WTO and World Bank are on american sides and these think will force one way or the other to get american finance up and keep it's debts underchecked.

Sure american industry is great there is no doubt about that but that dosn't mean their economy is as great as you think it is. They are great because they get more chances to make mistake that go unnotice then some of the other countries who will get the glare of the IMF/WTO/World Bank, if they mess up a bit.

If you want more info on how America utilizes IMF/WTO/World Bank i suggest you read these books for some ideas: "The No-nonsense guide to Globalization" by Wayne Ellwood and "Globalization and its discontents" by Joseph E. Stiglitz.
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I agree with SimpatiK American should resoulve their own probelms first. Does anyone know that there are 40 Million americans under the poverty line? Take note, Canada the country above has about 32 Million people. The money that they had prepared for the restauration of Iraq (before the war) about $80 Billion, could have been used to end all poverty in USA, but guess what they always could have but they never did and it's not only cuz of places like Columbine. It's the american government who refuses to help their own people.

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Devonin I don't know about you but were you there when mr. Bush announced the reason why he wished to attack Iraq in the first place? If I remember correctly it was WMD. Now where does he talk about WMD since then? Let's see that word faded after about 2 months after the end of the War. Mind telling me what happen to those WMD that he so vividly acted upon? Mind telling me why the reason has been changed from "WMD" to promoting democracy and stopping terrorism in Iraq" now?

Last time I checked there weren't any terrorism in Iraq till he entered in it, there were no people being abducted and slaughtered by day in there. There weren't any Iraqis getting killed by car bombs either. This all began when the Americans began to station there. It simply tells you that they DON'T WANT American support. They are greatful for having Sadaam removed but that doesn't mean they will let them control their country. All that USA is doing now in Iraq is increasing violence at the cost of their own soldiers (whom may i remind you are very limited to the point that they are trying to force conscriptions to recruit people by force).

[Devonin]

Devonin I don't know about you but were you there when mr. Bush announced the reason why he wished to attack Iraq in the first place? If I remember correctly it was WMD. Now where does he talk about WMD since then? Let's see that word faded after about 2 months after the end of the War. Mind telling me what happen to those WMD that he so vividly acted upon? Mind telling me why the reason has been changed from "WMD" to promoting democracy and stopping terrorism in Iraq" now?

The tone of this response reads like an objection to something I said, but I think you're actually making my point for me. I'm a little confused, could you clarify?

[itachi_kage]

edit: this post is to several posts in here, not just one.

politicians lie. that's a fact in every country. i'm not saying america is the best place to live. i'm not saying it's perfect. what i am saying however, is that in america you have more chances to succeed and live a longer life.

bush is an idiot. government officials are morons. i don't fully support the war, but i don't condem it either. i don't care what the reason for being in afghanastan or iraq is, but i do know we need to help change their countries and policies. i'm sorry, but if you were in new york on 9/11 as i was, you wouldn't care either. as for the jerry springer comment...you're a moron. a whore on that show is nothing to be envious of, use a different analogy.

yeah america has alot of poverty, sure we have alot of crime. say we go with the idea of handing out 80 billion dollars to 40 million people. sure that might help for a little while. then what? in a couple months they need more money, sure we'll give them some more, because they're poor right? they don't need to get a job, the government's handing out free money for poor people. and what's this about us not helping our own people? it's called welfare. welfare is crap. it makes people lazy. i don't care if a 50 year old handicap woman is getting welfare, it's hard for her to work. but a 30 year old healthy man? no.

no, there wasn't terrorism in iraq before we got involved. why don't you look up what was going on in iraq though. your government tells you over and over again that crap. "the americans are an occupying force. they should leave iraq alone!" then what? the iraqis don't know how to cope with democracy yet. if we let them go, watch the terrorism skyrocket! iraq could have any terrorist be their new dictator. when they have enough control, we'll leave. look up what was going on in iraq. anyone who even looked awkward at the government was subject to torture, death, sometimes entire families were wiped out. the kurds (i think that's how you spell it) at times were basically being exterminated, because suddam feared them. and 15 years ago, suddam tried a takeover of kuwait. what if we didn't do anything? then he might go after iran or pakistan. suddam = hitler...period. i'm sure any iraqi would take 10-15 years of violence if he could live a free life.

i don't care if i'm rude. this is a touchy subject. americans have alot of pride and we don't like when foreign people talk sh!t about us. go ahead and be hipocritic. when your country is having problems or being invaded or whatever, i hope we turn our head the other way.

also i'm just going to add that, i don't care how we are running our economy or why we haven't "tumbled". it's called business, you operate it to make sure it doesn't fail. as long as we are doing nothing illegal i don't care.

[Devonin]

the iraqis don't know how to cope with democracy yet

Because you know, we definately know better than one of the oldest cultures on earth!

I can understand and yet am completely baffled by the idea that one type of government is what is best for everybody. You can't take a four thousand year old tribal culture and just throw a western style democracy on it and expect it to work out. I mean, look at Africa after Europe got through with it.

Do you have any idea how many "civil wars" in Africa were in fact tribal warfare carried out by tribes that didn't know or care that they both happened to be within one "country" as mapped out by Europe? They were trying as best they could to continue living in the way they had since before Europeans even knew there -was- an Africa, and every time they tried, they got lambasted for not "respecting democracy" like it was a term they should even care about.

As per my long post above about how if the United States would just admit that they think they are better than everyone and that they're doing everyone a favour by remaking their nation in America's image, half the problems they face would go away.

The United States, if it feels like it, has the capability of emulating the Roman Empire with respect to bringing together the best of all the world's cultures and taking the superior elements from each and forming a more enlightened whole, and they have the capability of emulating nazi germany and seeking to simply supplant the other cultures with their own vaunted "superior" one.

it just needs to make up it's mind.

And to think, the United States of America was -founded- on the principle of total isolationism, and non-interference.

[itachi_kage]

Because you know, we definately know better than one of the oldest cultures on earth!

I can understand and yet am completely baffled by the idea that one type of government is what is best for everybody. You can't take a four thousand year old tribal culture and just throw a western style democracy on it and expect it to work out. I mean, look at Africa after Europe got through with it.

Do you have any idea how many "civil wars" in Africa were in fact tribal warfare carried out by tribes that didn't know or care that they both happened to be within one "country" as mapped out by Europe? They were trying as best they could to continue living in the way they had since before Europeans even knew there -was- an Africa, and every time they tried, they got lambasted for not "respecting democracy" like it was a term they should even care about.

As per my long post above about how if the United States would just admit that they think they are better than everyone and that they're doing everyone a favour by remaking their nation in America's image, half the problems they face would go away.

The United States, if it feels like it, has the capability of emulating the Roman Empire with respect to bringing together the best of all the world's cultures and taking the superior elements from each and forming a more enlightened whole, and they have the capability of emulating nazi germany and seeking to simply supplant the other cultures with their own vaunted "superior" one.

it just needs to make up it's mind.

And to think, the United States of America was -founded- on the principle of total isolationism, and non-interference.

and what's that going to accomplish? is the rest of the world going to say "wow they finally admitted it, now we can all live in perfect harmony. and we'll have smores and sing songs together?!?!?" or maybe that'll bring out more terrorists hating our arrogance. when bin laden targets you and your family, tell me ok? i want to see how you feel.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

The problem with the USA is that they like to stick their butt in other peoples buissness and if they do go more peace they tend to take sides or exploit the conflit by using their military power and making the nations they helped pay for their expenses. They also like to colonize anywhere they go, not colonize like in the 1700, but American economy colonization and that's what got them sept. 2001. Their forign policy is so bad that they indicrectly make the nations they go to help bow down to them.

Just look at persian gulf war in 1990. After America kicked Sadaam's ass out of Kuwiet. They started to charge Saudi Arabia and Kuwiet for their expense and since then most of the industries of those countries is either held by an American company or is made by americans. They also tried to change thier cultures and stuff with their western life. That's really what ticked the people like Bin Laden, cuz they were seeing that America was buying their country out under the table while the rest of the world were not listening or not even paying attention.

This war on terror? It's the same thing, just think of it as Cold War II. It's obvious now that the only reason America went to Iraq was for it's oil. Iraq did not have any WMD not did Sadaam harbor any Al-Qaida terroristes. Heck Bin Laden hates Sadaams guts if anything he would bomb Iraq if US didn't piss him off.

Note that the Talibans and people like Bin Laden are US creations also they were paid (in weapons) to fight the Russians indirectly by the USA.

So why does the world hate USA? Simple it's a back stabbing nation that invades a contry in the name of peace and democracy and then tries colonizes its markets with their own.

My thoughts exactly,
I don't hate the US though. Just the government. They twist it so much, it's just sick.

Then you will get people trying to argue against what 'BattousaiMS' said by bringing in the, "oh we wanted to free them" bullshit.

You want to save people from genocide, what about the genocide happening in Sudan?

You want to help human rights, what about the China with the worst human rights in the world combined?

They just want to fuck over a country so they can get contracts and own them.

I hate it when the US media makes the insurgents of Iraq look like horrible animals fighting for Saddam.
If America was attacked, you telling me you would just bend over and let them do what they want, why?
If any soldier came to my country trying to fuck me over, I'd go as far as dying to make sure that soldier died.

You know what's funny?
When an American fights for their country it patriotic.
When an Iraqi fights for his country, its an abomination.

The US government has to cut the hypocrisy and double standards.

My opinion.

[Devonin]

and what's that going to accomplish? is the rest of the world going to say "wow they finally admitted it, now we can all live in perfect harmony. and we'll have smores and sing songs together?!?!?"

No sir, they will not. They'll get angry, they'll rise up and try to resist you. They'll fight you every step of the way as usurpers, invaders and knaves, and you'll deserve it, because that's what happens when one nation decides it knows better than everyone else.

And you can deal with that, and you can fight them down, and put them down, and replace their leaders with those of your own choosing. It's what you've been doing economically for ages, and now militarily. You want to wear the shoes, you can lace them up tight and keep them on until your work is finished.

And as for this:
when bin laden targets you and your family, tell me ok? i want to see how you feel.
If this were my forum you'd be banned on the spot for that kind of tactless, moronic idiocy. You know nothing about me or my family or my history or my situation, or that of any of a hundred others on this site who may have -plenty- of personal knowledge of what that feels like, where do you get off making a statement like that?

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

when bin laden targets you and your family, tell me ok? i want to see how you feel.

I'm not the kind of guy that tries to offend people, I actually try to avoid it but,
are you fucking retarded?

What do you know about his family? Absolutly nothing so keep your ignorant mouth shut on matters like this because you know nothing.

Also, you say americans have alot of pride and don't like being talked bad about.
You don't think Iraqis have any pride, they get bombed the crap out of.

Shutting up right now would be the best option for you, any more and your stupidity will be confirmed, if already hasn’t been; which any person with an IQ higher than an aborted foetus would doubt.

Don't take it to heart...

[B]

also i'm just going to add that, i don't care how we are running our economy or why we haven't "tumbled". it's called business, you operate it to make sure it doesn't fail. as long as we are doing nothing illegal i don't care.

And the war (or slaughter) on Iraq is illegal, according to Kofi Annan.

[Negative-Ion]

And to think, the United States of America was -founded- on the principle of total isolationism, and non-interference.

You should open open some history books or do a bit of research before you make such a statement. U.S was not found on the principle of total isolatonism and non-interference. The first time U.S enter an isolationism period was after WW 1 When Wilson failed to be re-elected in the 1920's.

[Niabingi]

and what's that going to accomplish? is the rest of the world going to say "wow they finally admitted it, now we can all live in perfect harmony. and we'll have smores and sing songs together?!?!?" or maybe that'll bring out more terrorists hating our arrogance. when bin laden targets you and your family, tell me ok? i want to see how you feel.


what will that accomplish you ask?? what has americas actions thus far accomplished? People may not sing songs round a campfire together but lets be honest your popularity couldnt get any lower so.....

Your posts are getting more and more simplistic they are not logical arguements your letting your pride do the talking There is a limit to national pride dont let it blind you to other viewpoints and dont let it stop you asking questions..... when bin laden targets your family tell me how you feel? cmon man thats lame its not even close to a clever or valid argument and raises the question that you dont then think that the families of the innocent victims of the war on terror feel targeted by the U.S.!

[Devonin]

You should open open some history books or do a bit of research before you make such a statement. U.S was not found on the principle of total isolatonism and non-interference. The first time U.S enter an isolationism period was after WW 1 When Wilson failed to be re-elected in the 1920's.

Oh so when one of the rallying cries to rise up against the British in the first place was that Britain was endlessly involving the colonies in it's European affairs, and that if the colonies became independant they would no longer have to be involved in world affairs, and could just set themselves to founding a great nation without messing with anyone else, that was all about wanting to interfere with the rest of the world?

[Scorpio3.14]

Oh so when one of the rallying cries to rise up against the British in the first place was that Britain was endlessly involving the colonies in it's European affairs, and that if the colonies became independant they would no longer have to be involved in world affairs, and could just set themselves to founding a great nation without messing with anyone else, that was all about wanting to interfere with the rest of the world?

We didnt like being tied up in affairs that Britain brought us into, we didnt want to be left out of world affairs entirely, just the ones WE wanted to, not Britain. America during the revolutionary war went to many different countries to get help. After the war, we wanted to be recognized as an independant nation so that we could be included in world affairs. We never really wanted to isolate ourselves, just be indipendant to make our own decisions on the matter.

Its also funny how the rest of the world looked down on us around WWI when we began to isolate ourselves more and now they look down on us because we dont isolate ourselves lol

[itachi_kage]

And as for this:

If this were my forum you'd be banned on the spot for that kind of tactless, moronic idiocy. You know nothing about me or my family or my history or my situation, or that of any of a hundred others on this site who may have -plenty- of personal knowledge of what that feels like, where do you get off making a statement like that?

where do i get that from? well, my sister was killed in 9/11 and i have a cousin and a nephew in iraq right now. i have all the right to say that i want. if suddam hussein had let us and the u.n. search as we wanted to. none of this would be happening.

i don't know you or your family, i honestly i don't care. but if you were in my situation you'd be thinking alot differently.

for you british idiots criticizing the u.s...england is the U.S. jr. in training. if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking german right now. don't get me wrong i like england and i even like the culture. my posts are honest, and if you don't like them screw yourself and go somewhere else.

i know the thread starter didn't have this discussion in mind, and not to attack america, but this thread has turned into anti-america thread. if the mod wants to ban me, fine. i don't care, i haven't done anything wrong. just debating.

[Raistlin-sama]

where do i get that from? well, my sister was killed in 9/11 and i have a cousin and a nephew in iraq right now. i have all the right to say that i want. if suddam hussein had let us and the u.n. search as we wanted to. none of this would be happening.

i don't know you or your family, i honestly i don't care. but if you were in my situation you'd be thinking alot differently.

for you british idiots criticizing the u.s...england is the U.S. jr. in training. if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking german right now. don't get me wrong i like england and i even like the culture. my posts are honest, and if you don't like them screw yourself and go somewhere else.

i know the thread starter didn't have this discussion in mind, and not to attack america, but this thread has turned into anti-america thread. if the mod wants to ban me, fine. i don't care, i haven't done anything wrong. just debating

Your taking this way too personal. Some of us don't like America's attitude and policy... deal with it

That being said I don't know how the fact that innocents were killed, justifies killing other innocents (the iraqis people)

[Aldredian_Sahn]

Hey, how about everyone take a little time out today, eh? I just wanted to hear what the world views of America are, how the different countries view us and how they view the current war in the Middle East. Not who's better. Not what America should have done. Not a debate. We're in the Philosophical Forum for a reason, not the Debate Forums.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

where do i get that from? well, my sister was killed in 9/11 and i have a cousin and a nephew in iraq right now. i have all the right to say that i want. if suddam hussein had let us and the u.n. search as we wanted to. none of this would be happening.

i don't know you or your family, i honestly i don't care. but if you were in my situation you'd be thinking alot differently.

for you british idiots criticizing the u.s...england is the U.S. jr. in training. if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking german right now. don't get me wrong i like england and i even like the culture. my posts are honest, and if you don't like them screw yourself and go somewhere else.


So, because you had family killed on the 11th of September, you have the right to tell people that Osama Bin Laden will get them if you don't agree with the slaughter on Iraq.

And your opinion on us "British idiots"...

Reading your post on us "British idiots" really does confirm your ignorance...

You use the UN in your defense but your actually fucking yourself here, as I've said before, Kofi Annan has said this War is illegal.

[Negative-Ion]

Oh so when one of the rallying cries to rise up against the British in the first place was that Britain was endlessly involving the colonies in it's European affairs, and that if the colonies became independant they would no longer have to be involved in world affairs, and could just set themselves to founding a great nation without messing with anyone else, that was all about wanting to interfere with the rest of the world?


Its obvious you dont understand the reasons the colonies/states wanted to be independent. If Britain was getting the colonies involved in world affairs, its because the colonies were part of Britain, so why shouldnt Britain involve them? like i have already said, there were a lot of reasons why the colonies wanted to be independent. One the most important was government and laws, not because Britain was asking the colonies for help.

Just to further this discussion even more, you have to know this, the people that founded the U.S and made it what the U.S is today, were very very intelligent. They, unlike many other leaders of other countries , they wanted to do things right.

Whats happening now in Europe with this European nations deal and the euro and all that stuff. The U.S had them ever since they were formed. A country's future is based on the foundations it was built and the U.S has had the best foundations so far.

[itachi_kage]

So, because you had family killed on the 11th of September, you have the right to tell people that Osama Bin Laden will get them if you don't agree with the slaughter on Iraq.

And your opinion on us "British idiots"...

Reading your post on us "British idiots" really does confirm your ignorance...

You use the UN in your defense but your actually fucking yourself here, as I've said before, Kofi Annan has said this War is illegal.

actually i didn't say british people were idiots. i basically called you an idiot. and i didn't say osama was going to get you. what i said is that if you were in my position or an american's position, you'd feel the same way. my point is that you're making us sound like the slave trade or something or that americans are ignorant and dont' care about anything. i could care less who is better. america is hated because of people like you. and who cares what kofi annan says? he's never made one decision for my sake, or even yours. he says it's illegal, but he's never done anything about it.

i've seen and heard stories about people in iraq and how grateful they are that we are there. the iraqis throwing fits that we're there are the ones that want to take over power or are left over from the old regime. i'm a proud american and i believe in my country and the people here. i don't care what you think about america.

[Devonin]

i don't care what you think about america

Then pardon my presumption, but if you're in a thread designed for the discussion and critiquing of American Foreign Policy, and you don't care what anyone else thinks except to say that we're wrong, please leave.

[itachi_kage]

Then pardon my presumption, but if you're in a thread designed for the discussion and critiquing of American Foreign Policy, and you don't care what anyone else thinks except to say that we're wrong, please leave.


actually that's not the thread. the tread is "why people hate america". i'm just sticking up for my country, even though i don't like alot of our politicians. your media is one sided. as is ours, not all of it, but alot. all your news shows is american and british soldiers dying. it doesn't show what good we are doing in the country. any one of the soldiers would gladly give his/her life to give iraq a new start. the families may think otherwise, but the soldiers signed up for that purpose.

[Fairady]

wow you must be really smart, did you think you're the only person who knew that? if you actually watched cnn or msnbc or even fox news, you'd know they do report when something goes on. if a soldier dies in afghanastan, it'd be all over the news. obviously there is still fighting in afghanastan. not to be rude, but you sound like one of those anti-war anti-everything protestors that start riots because of your idiocy. hug a tree and burn a flag or whatever you do.

The reason I said that is because most people don't seem to know that. Many people simply turn on the news, watch a few stories, and decide that's good enough.

Sorry, there are no trees around here to hug, and the only riots I deal with are the ones that show up at the front gates of the compound I'm on. And no, the news doesn't report everything that goes on here in Afghanistan.

[Shishou]

Because there are alot of jealous countries.

Then we are evil, for doing something against Stupid Countries. Ones that do inhuman things, and won't play nice. Anyone who thinks it was stupid to take down Saddam, is a fucking moron.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

. and who cares what kofi annan says? he's never made one decision for my sake, or even yours. he says it's illegal, but he's never done anything about it.



You used the UN inspections as a justification for the attack on Iraq, but you don't give a damn about what the Secretary-General of the UN thinks?

Hahahahahaha!

And you had the cheek to call me a "British idiot"...

[Niabingi]

aldredian_sahn your right this thread has gone way off topic.... although I think now the question initially asked in the thread about why people hate america has been fully and oh so eloquently answered by itachi_kage! just read his posts in this thread...

As for the war in iraq my personal view is that is was a f***in embarrasment! wtf happened to the weapons of mass destruction people were banging on about? that was the whole justification of the war in Iraq and nothing... I believe it was more about oil and feel for the people of Iraq and all the soldiers caught up in or dying in a conflict that is transparent and pointless!

[Negative-Ion]

I believe it was more about oil and feel for the people of Iraq and all the soldiers caught up in or dying in a conflict that is transparent and pointless!

If it was about oil, then you should know that it was about the oil Latin America uses, the oil Japan uses, the oil China uses the oil Europe uses. do you see where im getting at? If you want to talk statistics, then the U.S gets only around 8-9% of its import oil from Middle East, or rather Saddam Housein. If you want to say that oil is the reason of this war, then its because 2/3 of oil reserves is in Middle East. The U.S imports only 8-9% of its oil from middle east, but do you know how much Japan imports? Japan's oil import is 2/3!!! And Europe gets even more of their import oil from middle east. Thats heigher than U.S or any other country.

The thing you have to consider here is global economy, if 2/3 of the oil reserves are in middle east, then the rest of the world only has 1/3. You see what will happen if all of a sudden Saddam was to say, "If you want oil, then you will have to pay $5000 a barrel" The whole global economy would cramble and industry everywhere be at a hault. If that was to happen, then there would be only 1 reason to get involved in a war, and that only reason would be OIL. But as things have turned out now, there were many other reasons besides oil.

[wes]

Wow when I 1st started to read this post I was like uh-oh now Im going to have to fight with people about our country sigh... but I see that theres alot of Good right thinking people already in here with the same ideas and thoughts and knowledge as myself already fighting the good fight :) thank you and youll know whos side Im on for thanking these people......Negative-Ion, Itachi kage, Neverfate, Scorpio3.14 each had ideas and thoughts as do I :)

[Efraim Longstocking]

It's hard to get an opinion a bot america that's good in Sweden because most news reports and politicians is so anti-american. I was an pro-war proclaimer in the beginning, one of the very few in my social circle, and many I know are are very right-winged but still do not approve america. I thought and do still hope that USA's actions could make life better for everyone. But after realizing more how america takes care of their own people I find it hilarious how they can be allowed to tell other nations how to take care of their gov. It's like if a mother who abuse her children tells a mother who spanks her child that she is a bad mother.
America was a land of hope and dreams for millions of people but the land of prosperity and dreams have become the a land with poverty, murder, stupidity, fatsoburger and corruption. The nation of freedom, it is called. It depends on how free you think an open institution is.

[Praetoriani]

I don't dislike America, just Americans that brag they have a higher quality of life then the Dutch.


Which just flat out isn't true, I'm sorry.

[nitro44]

if suddam hussein had let us and the u.n. search as we wanted to. none of this would be happening.

lol .. stop bull***ting .. and stop watching fox news !! UN send inspectors ..they didnt find anything.....

i ve been living for a year in america .. i liked it ...but i was really suprised by what happened !!

[Shikamaru-sama]

I hate the way that if you disagree with America's policy and argue against it you are accused of 'jumping on a bandwagon'.

[Kage_Kama]

Okay. I am a US citizen myself, but forgive me if you think I am speaking absolute bullshit:


WE HAVE NUKES, AND LOTS OF 'EM.


Hate for America could come from three possible factors: What we're capable of, propaganda, and the way we try to police other nations. Simple as that.

I wouldn't really blame jealousy.

[dmby]

you wanna know one reason why america is hated by many?

when americans get attacked and civilians are killed, they call it terrorism.
when americans attack them and kill 100,000 civilians, they call it "spillover".

americans are arrogant and selfish, plain and simple. not a single american. one american person can be great, caring and compassionate. but Americans as a whole, the american government included, is cold and unfeeling towards the rest of the world. The policy of american government is incredibly isolationist, moreso than anyone likes to admit. and yes, america does have a higher quality of life than other countries. but thats not the reason america is hated. its how they got to where they are now. America grew and flourished by exploiting the people of dozens of countries from all across the world, and now envisions itself as a heroic promised land where the government is perfect and the land is peaceful. But americans know: even america hates america. The keystone of the beloved american way of life is the corporation, a thing that nobody likes, but unfortunately, many people are enslaved by. american corporation has turned america into a great place to live, while simultaneously fucking countries like iraq, belize, panama, and wherever fine exportable goods are found. America hates itself for that. nobody likes the corporation. its cold, unfeeling, a giant machine that is used by the few to help fuck over the many. and why? to help a few people, and the american "way of life". America hates the corporation. but, america is the corporation, and it is extracting and digging and mining everywhere, screwing the little people they call "third world" or "undemocratic" countries.

People wonder why america is hated so much. but when you look back on what america has done in history, how it has come to be, and how it runs itself in the mannor of a corporation, you can't help but think, "why do some people NOT hate america?"

[itachi_kage]

lol .. stop bull***ting .. and stop watching fox news !! UN send inspectors ..they didnt find anything.....

i ve been living for a year in america .. i liked it ...but i was really suprised by what happened !!

yes, but they were not allowed to look everywhere they wanted. the iraq government needed advanced notice of when and where the inspectors would look.

for Praetoriani: listen, americans, well most of them, don't feel like we're better than any other country. each individual is different. i myself wouldn't mind living without alot of luxuries i have. as long as you're happy, you have a high quality of living. for instance, kids in africa dying of aids and worms might still be happy or kids in america with rich parents might be sad and suicidal. it all depends on your percpective on things.

for Ranjha: yeah i dont care what he thinks. even though we have idiot politicians in the white house, i trust they'll make the best decision for me. if they say that going to war is best suited for me, fine. i don't fully support the war, but i hope iraq will eventually be "free" and become a long term partner.

for anybody from england who thinks america was stupid to go to war: wait a minute, didn't tony blair come out and fully support the war and the u.s.?

for us americans on the 4th of july:

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY, GO HAVE YOURSELF A BEER OR 2,3,4, OR WHATEVER, CELEBRATE, AND TRY NOT TO BURN YOUR HANDS OFF!

[Shikamaru-sama]

jealous
evil
Stupid inhuman
won't play nice.

You do know thats a fitting description of America right?

[itachi_kage]

You do know thats a fitting description of America right?

wow, great post. i can't even respond to that. :moon

[Negative-Ion]

you wanna know one reason why america is hated by many?

when americans get attacked and civilians are killed, they call it terrorism.
when americans attack them and kill 100,000 civilians, they call it "spillover".

americans are arrogant and selfish, plain and simple. not a single american. one american person can be great, caring and compassionate. but Americans as a whole, the american government included, is cold and unfeeling towards the rest of the world. The policy of american government is incredibly isolationist, moreso than anyone likes to admit. and yes, america does have a higher quality of life than other countries. but thats not the reason america is hated. its how they got to where they are now. America grew and flourished by exploiting the people of dozens of countries from all across the world, and now envisions itself as a heroic promised land where the government is perfect and the land is peaceful. But americans know: even america hates america. The keystone of the beloved american way of life is the corporation, a thing that nobody likes, but unfortunately, many people are enslaved by. american corporation has turned america into a great place to live, while simultaneously fucking countries like iraq, belize, panama, and wherever fine exportable goods are found. America hates itself for that. nobody likes the corporation. its cold, unfeeling, a giant machine that is used by the few to help fuck over the many. and why? to help a few people, and the american "way of life". America hates the corporation. but, america is the corporation, and it is extracting and digging and mining everywhere, screwing the little people they call "third world" or "undemocratic" countries.

People wonder why america is hated so much. but when you look back on what america has done in history, how it has come to be, and how it runs itself in the mannor of a corporation, you can't help but think, "why do some people NOT hate america?"

This is really ignorant. You know whats more funny and messed up though? How when some nation faces a really bad natural disaster, the U.S is first to respond and help, not only the U.S but common U.S citizen that you will never hear of them, nor would know anything about them.

[Shikamaru-sama]

wow, great post. i can't even respond to that. :moon
heh, and your 22

Actually as a language student i see lexical choice as a very important way of finding out what people are saying. His choice of lexis could easily be attributed to the USA.

[itachi_kage]

heh, and your 22

Actually as a language student i see lexical choice as a very important way of finding out what people are saying. His choice of lexis could easily be attributed to the USA.

:smack i hope you like that one too. :clap

i guarantee you wouldn't say shit like that to my face. americans aren't nice enough to put up with your bullshit.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

This is really ignorant. You know whats more funny and messed up though? How when some nation faces a really bad natural disaster, the U.S is first to respond and help, not only the U.S but common U.S citizen that you will never hear of them, nor would know anything about them.

True but the money from the U.S given to those nations are mostly from the stacks on interest from debt which is owed to the U.S.

They do it just to look good on the media, when all they are doing is exploiting them, then giving them a little bit back.

If they wanted to help, they wouldn't keep these poor nations on a financial leash.

My opinion.

[dmby]

This is really ignorant. You know whats more funny and messed up though? How when some nation faces a really bad natural disaster, the U.S is first to respond and help, not only the U.S but common U.S citizen that you will never hear of them, nor would know anything about them.

OK, THIS is ignorant. I see you are under the impression that when a disaster strikes the US is always the hero that jumps in ans saves everyone. Wrong. Proportional to our wealth, the government itself gives little to help with disasters that don't involve us. Even in the Tsunami, the US started off by pledging a pitiful amount of money, 1/20 of the donations of the governments of some nations 1/20 our size! After the media caught on at how little money we we were going to put into the effort, president Bush rushed to add more to the donation so as not to get hounded at.


America: the people, on the other hand; the actual citizens, give alot to charity. the US people are very generous indeed. but that doesn't have to do with what i had stated in my previous post.




EDIT: i agree with the above post, as well. as for Mr. "we don't put up with your bullshit", you seem to be a ver angry person. its called, "we don't care what you think".

[itachi_kage]

This is really ignorant. You know whats more funny and messed up though? How when some nation faces a really bad natural disaster, the U.S is first to respond and help, not only the U.S but common U.S citizen that you will never hear of them, nor would know anything about them.

that sums it up. we give more money in disasters than any other country...but did you know that during the tsunami crisis more money came from american citizens than EVERY country combined!

[dmby]

i know that. read my post above yours.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

i guarantee you wouldn't say shit like that to my face. americans aren't nice enough to put up with your bullshit.

Wow, an internet forum tough guy...

Please, all americans aren't like you, otherwise I'd feel sorry for them.

Plus you say Americans don't like peopl saying bad things about them, what about Iraqi's that are being told what to do from government that doesn't give a shit about them.

[itachi_kage]

i know that. read my post above yours.

definitely not an angry person, i just don't like when people talk shit about my country. if i started spieling off some history on some of these other countries, they'd be pretty angry too. i'm actually a pretty easy going person, but i don't think most americans are just gonna sit back and listen to this crap without sticking up for themselves.

[dmby]

^^good one :thumbs



and i am an american, so don't get any ideas about me.


EDIT:
definitely not an angry person, i just don't like when people talk shit about my country. if i started spieling off some history on some of these other countries, they'd be pretty angry too. i'm actually a pretty easy going person, but i don't think most americans are just gonna sit back and listen to this crap without sticking up for themselves.

i am an american. i am telling you the truth. you can't handle it? too bad. some americans are too stuckup about our country. we aren't that great, you know. you have to learn to deal with the truth.

[itachi_kage]

Wow, an internet forum tough guy...

Please, all americans aren't like you, otherwise I'd feel sorry for them.

Plus you say Americans don't like peopl saying bad things about them, what about Iraqi's that are being told what to do from government that doesn't give a shit about them.

where the fuck do you hear this crap? tha's bullshit and you know it. they have there own government, but as far as training troops and police is up to us. and we're there still searching for anyone who threatens iraq and the new government.

[BattousaiMS]

...

Guys you do know the reason for the 9/11 attack don't you? Bush claimed it that it was because America represented a beacon of freedom and liberty. But to tell you the truth, there aren't the beacon of freedom and liberty, the scandinavian nations, canada and many others have freedoms and liberty that the USA can't even imagine let alone have it. Note that he also got lucky that the terrorists attacked WTC, if it was only Pentagone and White House, he wouldn't even get support to attack Afganistan, which really was a terrible place before americans intervened to kudos to the Americans for that. However, considering that they could have intervene ages ago (after all they helped the talibans settle in for power) i don't know if i should really thank them or not.

The reason for that attack was due to american foreign policies that they used against nations they had helped in the past. I like to call that policy "the helping hand screwing under the table policy". It's been up ever since the end of WWII. The only diffrence now is that unlike the rest of the President's who had enough brains to do it under the table, Bush was idiotic enough to do it openly.

American policies are getting much worst now with their Patriot act policy. Do you guys know that with this act, they can arrest you, revoke your passport/citizenship without a trial? So much for equal rights and freedom.

Some of you who support current American actions should really go and read the policies your leaders put up, trust me you won't feel very good about them after you read those policies.

Sure I am not telling you that USA should be hated, but the US governement should be hated for their acts.

[itachi_kage]

^^good one :thumbs



and i am an american, so don't get any ideas about me.


EDIT:


i am an american. i am telling you the truth. you can't handle it? too bad. some americans are too stuckup about our country. we aren't that great, you know. you have to learn to deal with the truth.

we're not that great you say huh? go live somewhere else. we don't want you. we're not eutopia here, but this country gives alot to us. i for one, am grateful for everything.

[dmby]

where the fuck do you hear this crap? tha's bullshit and you know it. they have there own government, but as far as training troops and police is up to us. and we're there still searching for anyone who threatens iraq and the new government.

Wow. Do you honestly believe that the US is doing this with freedom of the Iraqi people as its first priority? You don't understand the government then. the government doesn't do what we are doing out of charity. we do it if there is profit involved. and in Iraq, there is profit: Oil, and a base country from which we will try to aquire MORE oil.

[Niabingi]

definitely not an angry person, i just don't like when people talk shit about my country. if i started spieling off some history on some of these other countries, they'd be pretty angry too. i'm actually a pretty easy going person, but i don't think most americans are just gonna sit back and listen to this crap without sticking up for themselves.

mate you could say what the hell you want about my country.... no skin of my nose! Im not blind enough to get so heated over such criticism I know that just cos I live or was born somewhere that dont make it perfect! people are gonna think your angry if you keep posting stinted illogical, crass posts express yourself with elouquence and dignity or dont bother

Anyway i shall sum it up like this I will yield ground on my views on these three grounds
1)show me someting that will excuse the death of an estimated 20,000 iraqi civillians.
2)make me understand why the Coallition forces dont deem i a worthy task to count the iraqi death toll? was their life that insignificant?
3)13,000 troops wounded or dead an this accomplished what?

[dmby]

we're not that great you say huh? go live somewhere else. we don't want you. we're not eutopia here, but this country gives alot to us. i for one, am grateful for everything.

Douche. Don't you realize that i love my freedom? but you have to get it through your thick head. America isn't a beacon of hope, nor are we all heroes, nor are we the "protectors of the world". That is a ploy. We may be good people, but we aren't the best. and you are arrogant and stupid if you tell me to get out. free speech is one of the main things this country provides to you that you are oh so fucking grateful for.

[Scorpio3.14]

...

Guys you do know the reason for the 9/11 attack don't you? Bush claimed it that it was because America represented a beacon of freedom and liberty. But to tell you the truth, there aren't the beacon of freedom and liberty, the scandinavian nations, canada and many others have freedoms and liberty that the USA can't even imagine let alone have it. Note that he also got lucky that the terrorists attacked WTC, if it was only Pentagone and White House, he wouldn't even get support to attack Afganistan, which really was a terrible place before americans intervened to kudos to the Americans for that. However, considering that they could have intervene ages ago (after all they helped the talibans settle in for power) i don't know if i should really thank them or not.

The reason for that attack was due to american foreign policies that they used against nations they had helped in the past. I like to call that policy "the helping hand screwing under the table policy". It's been up ever since the end of WWII. The only diffrence now is that unlike the rest of the President's who had enough brains to do it under the table, Bush was idiotic enough to do it openly.

American policies are getting much worst now with their Patriot act policy. Do you guys know that with this act, they can arrest you, revoke your passport/citizenship without a trial? So much for equal rights and freedom.

Some of you who support current American actions should really go and read the policies your leaders put up, trust me you won't feel very good about them after you read those policies.

Sure I am not telling you that USA should be hated, but the US governement should be hated for their acts.

Why do people keep looking for some deeper meaning to these attacks? The people who attacked us themselves have said why they have attacked us. Our way of life is offensive to them. We are corrupting their Islam nation with our declining moral values spreading throughout the world. They blame us for EVERYTHING wrong with their lives. You can look for deeper meaning behind these attacks by looking at economic and foreign policy but I will believe what is coming right out of the terrorist's mouths.

[Raistlin-sama]

we're not that great you say huh? go live somewhere else. we don't want you. we're not eutopia here, but this country gives alot to us. i for one, am grateful for everything.


Now I don't live in the US, so you can't tell me to leave. but if i did, I would be extremley pissed of at something like this, actually I still am. So you think that someone, who does not find their own country to be the greatest, must not live there, how... patriotic

[blacklusterseph004]

The reasons for the hate of America are truly wide-ranging. In my opinion though, it is becoming an irrational hate in muslim communities. I'm not knocking Islam or anything, but from what I've seen, muslims become quite upset if other muslims are mistreated, even if they don't know them. The result however, is that muslim children are growing up to hate USA simply for the sake of hating USA. Generally, muslims who are exposed to a wider world view from a young age, are the passive one's. The closed-minded ones, and the ones raised with certain world views seem to be more aggressive.

For instance, a few years ago a Planet Hollywood restaurant in Cape Town was bombed, simply because it was a symbol of America. This was particularly sad and foolish because the people who got hurt were the South Africans who actually eat there. It was common knowledge that the perpetrators were muslim.

I'm trying hard not to make generalisations, but it seems as though the only people commiting terrorist acts against the US are people of Islamic faith. I'm suggesting that this is because of the way that the new generation is being raised, and because of the nature of the religious bond that muslims have to other muslims.

I do like what Devonin said though. Sometimes I feel that the US really takes the rest of the world for idiots. Perhaps the US should divert a little of its military funding to fabricating better excuses for the things it does. (not that it needs to of course, I just think that, that would be the courteous thing to do)

[dmby]

raistlin, thank you.

itachi_kage, do you understand what im saying?

[Shikamaru-sama]

Itachi-kage, im really fidning it hard to believe that someone like you ACTUALLY exists.

[itachi_kage]

Why do people keep looking for some deeper meaning to these attacks? The people who attacked us themselves have said why they have attacked us. Our way of life is offensive to them. We are corrupting their Islam nation with our declining moral values spreading throughout the world. They blame us for EVERYTHING wrong with their lives. You can look for deeper meaning behind these attacks by looking at economic and foreign policy but I will believe what is coming right out of the terrorist's mouths.

you took the words right out of my mouth.

to dmby: i don't care, if you're not patriotic, that's your business. if you don't like it you don't have to stay.

to Raistlin-sama: fine. do what you want i don't care. if you don't think we're the greatest oh well. for me this is the best and greatest country. you may have had a harder life, who knows? like i've said, it depends on your perception of the greatest. i couldn't picture myself living anywhere else having a better life. but the guy from the u.k. probably feels the same about his country.

[itachi_kage]

Itachi-kage, im really fidning it hard to believe that someone like you ACTUALLY exists.

get over it. there's alot more of me. i'm patriotic, maybe just because it's the 4th of july. but i can't just let people trample on my country.

[dmby]

to dmby: i don't care, if you're not patriotic, that's your business. if you don't like it you don't have to stay.

I must say that after that comment i now have to consider you a whole new level of stubborn prick. You don't even fucking understand the meaning of patriotism.

patriotism is not being like you, loving everything about your country and believing whatever shit the government says to you. Real patriotism is loving your country and your peers enough to question the government, and to be a member of a worldwide community and support not only america, but the world. To a true patriot, the ability to question is the greatest ability of all. and so, unlike you, I AM the patriot here.





get over it. there's alot more of me. i'm patriotic, maybe just because it's the 4th of july. but i can't just let people trample on my country.

This further proves my point. you aren't patriotic. you are a mindless drone of the american government.

[itachi_kage]

I must say that after that comment i now have to consider you a whole new level of stubborn prick. You don't even fucking understand the meaning of patriotism.

patriotism is not being like you, loving everything about your country and believing whatever shit the government says to you. Real patriotism is loving your country and your peers enough to question the government, and to be a member of a worldwide community and support not only america, but the world. To a true patriot, the ability to question is the greatest ability of all. and so, unlike you, I AM the patriot here.

alright you fuck. tell me one thing i have said negative about any other country? can you do it? no!!!!!!!!! i love my country and i'm glad we're helping out the middle east. hopefully the people over in africa fighting can get some aid soon too. i love my country, i would die for my country, and i will fight for my country. look up the word patriotism and tell me what you find.

[Niabingi]

you took the words right out of my mouth.

to dmby: i don't care, if you're not patriotic, that's your business. if you don't like it you don't have to stay.

to Raistlin-sama: fine. do what you want i don't care. if you don't think we're the greatest oh well. for me this is the best and greatest country. you may have had a harder life, who knows? like i've said, it depends on your perception of the greatest. i couldn't picture myself living anywhere else having a better life. but the guy from the u.k. probably feels the same about his country.

people from the UK dont generally have the same level of naionl pride as you sorry to say..... we mostly openly take on board criticism of our country would never be crude enough to say it was the greatest country in the world and openly accept the fact that its not perfect it has faults and we are generally the first people to disagree with and criticise our own politics

anyhow i think people should as a whole stop responding to itachi_kages posts they get more and more illogical each time... there are many other people posting here who dont agree with my and others opinion of the U.S. but cos there posts are less inflammtory they dont really get answered as a result we cant have a decent discussion...

[Raistlin-sama]

to Raistlin-sama: fine. do what you want i don't care. if you don't think we're the greatest oh well. for me this is the best and greatest country. you may have had a harder life, who knows? like i've said, it depends on your perception of the greatest. i couldn't picture myself living anywhere else having a better life. but the guy from the u.k. probably feels the same about his country.

I know for a fact that i have had an easy life, almost a little too easy (Yeah we are little too sheltered here in scandinavia) But you completley missed my point. I didn't say that your country isn't the greatest (which i by the way don't think) but rather that even if some living in the US, or Denmark for that matter, does not like their country they have just as much right to live there as everyone else...

[Shikamaru-sama]

Its sad that someone can be so warped into the idea of their 'country' that they hold views like yours itachi-kage.

Altthough i would like to point out that i accept this dick is an extreme example, and not all of you are like he is.

Its amazing how you can get Americans just as nice as anybody else you will ever meet, intelligent and friendly, then you come across someone like IK. USA land of Diversity.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

we're not that great you say huh? go live somewhere else. we don't want you. we're not eutopia here, but this country gives alot to us. i for one, am grateful for everything.

Now you must be joking, are you telling him to get out the country because he doesn't agree certain aspects of what the government is doing? So I take it you aren't a fan of free speech. For somebody who loves their country, you don't seem to support one of the main loved aspects of the country, right to free speech.


it depends on your perception of the greatest. i couldn't picture myself living anywhere else having a better life. but the guy from the u.k. probably feels the same about his country.

Yeah, I like my country, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything that they say, thats just stupidity and ignorance.

One example, basing their attack on statistics from the WMD'S in Iraq, when in the end; there weren't any.

[itachi_kage]

would someone please tell me one time i have said anything negative about any country other than the united states?

edit:i definitely believe in freedom of speech, but i also believe that if you don't like your country or the way it is run, you have two choices, stay and put up with it or leave to somewhere that is better according to your standards.

i used to live in michigan, i hated it for 18 years of my life, so i moved to california, it's that easy.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

The problem isn't that you've been negative towards other countries.

The problem is that you are ignorant in what your country does.

[dmby]

alright you fuck. tell me one thing i have said negative about any other country? can you do it? no!!!!!!!!! i love my country and i'm glad we're helping out the middle east. hopefully the people over in africa fighting can get some aid soon too. i love my country, i would die for my country, and i will fight for my country. look up the word patriotism and tell me what you find.

Fuck you. you didn't even understand my post. i don't care what you said about other countries. i haven't bashed another country either. you just don't have the brains to question our government. that is not patriotism. you may love your country, but you sure do it in an arrogant and blind way. i hope that there aren't more people around like you.

[itachi_kage]

Fuck you. you didn't even understand my post. i don't care what you said about other countries. i haven't bashed another country either. you just don't have the brains to question our government. that is not patriotism. you may love your country, but you sure do it in an arrogant and blind way. i hope that there aren't more people around like you.

i do question my government, i vote. i don't agree with alot of shit the u.s. does. but i'm going to support it anyway. if i want to protest i will. if i want to stand outside and pickett i will.

and since you don't know the definition of patriotism, here you go:

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/patriotism

[Shikamaru-sama]

i don't agree with alot of shit the u.s. does. but i'm going to support it anyway.
FINALLY! the answer to the thread!

THATS why people hate America

[itachi_kage]

FINALLY! the answer to the thread!

THATS why people hate America

why? because we can support our government without agreeing with it? or because idiots like you who know nothing about our country other than what you see on tv judge us and try to make us sound like idiots.

[dmby]

but your view goes so far as that you seeem to be a nationalist, something that i do not find patriotic.


Now i want to know something... Why do you find me unpatriotic? just because of that defination? and if so, what is my problem?

[Niabingi]

i do question my government, i vote. i don't agree with alot of shit the u.s. does. but i'm going to support it anyway. if i want to protest i will. if i want to stand outside and pickett i will.

and since you don't know the definition of patriotism, here you go:

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/patriotism

I really dont see whats so hard to understand about the point people here have been trying to make..... than again it is the fourth of july wait! have you been drinking? are you under the influence?

who cares what the meaning of patriotism is you dont have to be patriotic to live in a country!
and if you dont agree with your governments actions then why suport it?? If I disagree with something then i will make my feelings known im not gonna go along with it just cos im told...c'mon man

[Shikamaru-sama]

why? because we can support our government without agreeing with it? or because idiots like you who know nothing about our country other than what you see on tv judge us and try to make us sound like idiots.
heh, actually i know a lot more about your country than you do BECAUSE of what is shown on tv outside of your heavily censored heavily biased, slightly pathetic media bubble.

Your kind of attitude can elad to lots of other problems. if you just agree and support the government in whatever they do then you are not fulfilling your duty as a patriotic citizen. You are giving your country two fingers and saying 'do what the fuck you want with it mr. president, i dont care'.

[itachi_kage]

but your view goes so far as that you seeem to be a nationalist, something that i do not find patriotic.


Now i want to know something... Why do you find me unpatriotic? just because of that defination? and if so, what is my problem?

i'm not saying you're totally unpatriotic, just that you should be more thankful. even if you don't think the same way i do. but you should take some time to think about what you have right now. maybe you would be better off and happier somewhere else, just the way you made it sound.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

i'm not saying you're totally unpatriotic, just that you should be more thankful. even if you don't think the same way i do. but you should take some time to think about what you have right now. maybe you would be better off and happier somewhere else, just the way you made it sound.

Just because he chooses not to follow biased media, doesn't mean he's not thankful, you don't know if he's thankful or not.

[itachi_kage]

heh, actually i know a lot more about your country than you do BECAUSE of what is shown on tv outside of your heavily censored heavily biased, slightly pathetic media bubble.

Your kind of attitude can elad to lots of other problems. if you just agree and support the government in whatever they do then you are not fulfilling your duty as a patriotic citizen. You are giving your country two fingers and saying 'do what the fuck you want with it mr. president, i dont care'.

alright then, tell me something i dont' know about my country and i'll admit you're right. if you can.

look, as i stated before, i don't fully agree with the war in iraq, just because of the death toll. but if you look at it on the other said, it benefits us and them. the iraqis in the future will have a democratic nation, peaceful. we will have one more strong middle east ally that we can do business with. if bush asked me if i support him, i'd say yes just for those reasons. if the u.s. wants to tax me for using the bathroom, i'm gonna protest and be pissed right? but in the overall, i'm still supporting my government. the point is, i don't agree with everything, but in the wide perspective i do.

[Scorpio3.14]

heh, actually i know a lot more about your country than you do BECAUSE of what is shown on tv outside of your heavily censored heavily biased, slightly pathetic media bubble.

LOL you admittedly say that most people dont like America, but somehow your media is COMPLETELY unbiased uh? Come on, your media is probably about as biased as our media. Do you watch/read most American media outlets by any chance? I didnt think so.

[itachi_kage]

Just because he chooses not to follow biased media, doesn't mean he's not thankful, you don't know if he's thankful or not.

again, all of our media is not biased. government doesn't censor any of the media, the media shows what they wish to. i myself read more internet news than anything, so i'm pretty well informed. but when i watch fox news, cnn, or msnbc they show pretty much everything that i saw on the internet.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

again, all of our media is not biased. government doesn't censor any of the media, the media shows what they wish to. i myself read more internet news than anything, so i'm pretty well informed. but when i watch fox news, cnn, or msnbc they show pretty much everything that i saw on the internet.

No. I'm not discussing what parts of U.S media is biased.

You missed the point, here is the point,
just because he doesn't agree with the U.S government, doesn't make him not thankful.

[Niabingi]

alright then, tell me something i dont' know about my country and i'll admit you're right. if you can.

look, as i stated before, i don't fully agree with the war in iraq, just because of the death toll. but if you look at it on the other said, it benefits us and them. the iraqis in the future will have a democratic nation, peaceful. we will have one more strong middle east ally that we can do business with. if bush asked me if i support him, i'd say yes just for those reasons. if the u.s. wants to tax me for using the bathroom, i'm gonna protest and be pissed right? but in the overall, i'm still supporting my government. the point is, i don't agree with everything, but in the wide perspective i do.

logic his logic is stellar!
well i am now officially converted I can see the benefits of the war in Iraq I get it... better trade and more allies for america and peace all round for iraqi civillians!
Im sorry I ever doubted the war or my country! Tony Blair I beg your forgiveness its just that I dont agree with everything but in the wide perspective I do.....

[itachi_kage]

logic his logic is stellar!
well i am now officially converted I can see the benefits of the war in Iraq I get it... better trade and more allies for america and peace all round for iraqi civillians!
Im sorry I ever doubted the war or my country! Tony Blair I beg your forgiveness its just that I dont agree with everything but in the wide perspective I do.....

yeah, you're an idiot. i just pray that next time something happens in the u.k. and we send billions of dollars and manpower over to help out, you can appreciate us a little more.

[Niabingi]

LOL you admittedly say that most people dont like America, but somehow your media is COMPLETELY unbiased uh? Come on, your media is probably about as biased as our media. Do you watch/read most American media outlets by any chance? I didnt think so.

I read world media i know that you will always get a biased vie if you base what you believe on one source so i get news from all over the globe (plus i beleive that as people we are all neighbours so I think its important to know whats happening in other parts of the world ) and yup news in the U.K. is biased too but not to the degree of the U.S I have read and seen your news and media online and also first-hand...

[itachi_kage]

my last post, because i'm gonna go bbq and get drunk and have a good time, try to play nice with other kids ok? and stay out of the pool 1 hour until after you've eaten.

happy 4th of July people!

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

yeah, you're an idiot. i just pray that next time something happens in the u.k. and we send billions of dollars and manpower over to help out, you can appreciate us a little more.

Are you serious?

I don't even have to try and point out the stupidity in what you just typed.
This is on the level of when you said that Bin Laden would get you if you don't agree with the U.S.

[Scorpio3.14]

I read world media i know that you will always get a biased vie if you base what you believe on one source so i get news from all over the globe (plus i beleive that as people we are all neighbours so I think its important to know whats happening in other parts of the world ) and yup news in the U.K. is biased too but not to the degree of the U.S I have read and seen your news and media online and also first-hand...

I also read world news and I have to say, Its not too much different then the kinda stuff I see on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX. Please, can some one explain to me exactly what is biased about our media? Ive read international news and American news and I dont see a huge difference in the way it is reported so maybe I am missing something here. What exactly is so biased about our media? Specifics would be appreciated too.

[Niabingi]

yeah, you're an idiot. i just pray that next time something happens in the u.k. and we send billions of dollars and manpower over to help out, you can appreciate us a little more.


view that post as more of a litmus test than anything else logic clearly wasnt getting through to you so i just wondered if sarcasm would be more easily understood.....

and as for a reply to this post... whatever man whatever please dont throw all your toys out of the pram at once save some for later....

My problem with the U.S. is small in comparison to my problem with your closed-minded, stubborn, crass, illogical posts you detracted from the main purpose of the thread and now this place is more like a free for all than a discussion....

[dmby]

i'm not saying you're totally unpatriotic, just that you should be more thankful. even if you don't think the same way i do. but you should take some time to think about what you have right now. maybe you would be better off and happier somewhere else, just the way you made it sound.

I am thankful. very. i have alot and i know it. but i can't help but feel guilty about how it all came to be, and how it will come to be for my children and their children after them. America is built on a very good combination of hard work, ruthlessness, and bullshit cemented all together. the common man takes care of the hard work, the corporations take care of ruthlessness, and the government deals out a whole lotta Bullshit. Now, i am thankful that i live in a big house, go to a private school, and don't need to suffer. but i still think about who we fucked over so i could have what i have. I think about how many farmers an american corp. ran out of business so i could eat a hamburger. i think of how safe our country, and i think about how many dictators we have propped up over the years so that we could get the materials cheap to build our defenses up. I think about why we are so much better off, why I get what i have, why we are so powerful, and sometimes, i wonder if it all is worth it.
And yet, you call ME ungrateful? Because I am ashamed that my life is built on the crushed dreams of others? You, sir, think in simple terms. "america equals greatness" I am sorry, but as grateful as I am, america never earned its power. We stole it.

[Raistlin-sama]

Agreed, and that goes for the rest of the "industrial" world as well... Europe, Japan and the US, have sure fucked over a lot of countries and poor people.

[dmby]

thanks raistlin.

[Niabingi]

Agreed, and that goes for the rest of the "industrial" world as well... Europe, Japan and the US, have sure fucked over a lot of countries and poor people.

agreed!
and not only th blatant exploitation of the past but also he complete lack of fair trade today in the present, the places so rich in natural resources are also the poorest places hmmm doesnt add up! So forgive me for being skeptical about the benefits of strengthened U.S. and coallition trade with Iraq

[dmby]

ok, so im guessing my little Schpiel helped out everyone understand whats really going on in my brain?

[Scorpio3.14]

Agreed, and that goes for the rest of the "industrial" world as well... Europe, Japan and the US, have sure fucked over a lot of countries and poor people.

Which is why its a little hypocritical to bring it up as to why you dislike America and not the many other nations that do the same thing...

[Niabingi]

yup DMBY but i was always quite sure of where you were coming from I just still cant believe we all wasted so much energy "debating" if you can even call it that with itachi_kage thats what I was trying to say before so many people here have good points to make and we were missing out on all of that cos of his blatantly ignorant and closd -minded posts

[dmby]

[QUOTE]

Which is why its a little hypocritical to bring it up as to why you dislike America and not the many other nations that do the same thing...

Hey, this was started by aldredian, not us, and he was all "YAY AMERICA".

this was about america, so thats what we are gunna talk about.

[Scorpio3.14]

[QUOTE]

Hey, this was started by aldredian, not us, and he was all "YAY AMERICA".

this was about america, so thats what we are gunna talk about.

Ya, but if you read my first post in here you will realize that what I really hate about all the anti-American sentiment out there is that they would rather focus on America because we are America and not the many other countries that do the same thing they are complaining about or worse. People would rather put their efforts into attacking America because we are the biggest target, but there are far worse nations out there. America isnt perfect, a lot of the faults people bring up about America are true (maybe exagerated, but have some truth to them). I just think a lot of the critisism aimed at America is aimed at America simply because we are America lol

[Raistlin-sama]

Which is why its a little hypocritical to bring it up as to why you dislike America and not the many other nations that do the same thing...

When did I ever say that I do not dislike the fact that other nations do it. Actually i said that excactly becoarse I thought it was unfair to only put this against the US. I have other reasons for disliking the US as well... And I dislike Europe and Japan, and Australia (which i seemed to forget before) for this as well, but since America does some other things as well that i do not like, I dislike America more. Besides this thread is about, why people hate america, not why people hate europe...

So don't call me a hypocrite, when you don't even know my full opinion

[Scorpio3.14]

So don't call me a hypocrite, when you don't even know my full opinion

Actually I didnt bring that up to call you a hypocrite, I really like that you brought up the fact that other countries do it too. You were being the opposite of a hypocrite lol I was just useing what you said to show a form of hypocracy that I see a lot (I was not calling anyone a hypocrite in particular)

[dmby]

your right, scorpio. But its what should happen. America is the country that makes a difference, the most difference, in the world. We are the most powerful country, and the country that all others judge. We point out americas faults because america has to be the "hero" all the time, and it is somewhat hypocritical at times. And so, America must be targeted for doing those things first because america is the best at it, and it sets a bad example.

[Negative-Ion]

True but the money from the U.S given to those nations are mostly from the stacks on interest from debt which is owed to the U.S.

They do it just to look good on the media, when all they are doing is exploiting them, then giving them a little bit back.

If they wanted to help, they wouldn't keep these poor nations on a financial leash.

My opinion.

Actually if you know anything about debt, know this too. The U.S owes more money to the U.S, meaning the U.S citzen has to pay for the debt. Also most of the U.S national debt is owned by creditors, which are really really big companies or other countries. Something even funnier, did you know that China owns most of the U.S national debt? The other nations, actually have more power and can indeed keep the U.S on a finacial leash but they are not doing it, for reasons i dont know. So the U.S says, fuck the money, lets spend more and help the poor, U.S might have given less money as a country, but the U.S is also fighting a war alone, it also helps poor countries in Africa, Latin America and Europe. But It will come a time when the U.S will have to re-pay this debt, and everyone will be on the U.S's case.

And to leave you with some statistics ill tell you this.

In order for the U.S to pay off the debt and its creditors, each U.S citizen has to pay $27 thousand. So as you can see if the U.S owes so much and still be the #1 super power, imagine how weak or how much the other countries owe to each other.

for more info, look here http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

[Scorpio3.14]

your right, scorpio. But its what should happen. America is the country that makes a difference, the most difference, in the world. We are the most powerful country, and the country that all others judge. We point out americas faults because america has to be the "hero" all the time, and it is somewhat hypocritical at times. And so, America must be targeted for doing those things first because america is the best at it, and it sets a bad example.

Which about sums up what I hate about all this anti-American sentiment. We are judge on an entirely different scale then pretty much every other country in the world. When the US has racism we get jumped on, when half the other countries in the world have tons of racism, no body seems to care. When one American government figure is found to be corrupt, the whole world writes an editorial about it, but no one really cares when 90% of Nicaragua's government is corrupt. When there is a rights violation in the US its a big deal, but China does it everyday and you rarely see waves of anti-Chinese sentiment spreading throughout the world. America is a country just like every other country.

[dmby]

no, america is not like every other country. we are the most powerful country. other people all over the world fear us because we are the only country who could destroy any country we felt like by pressing a button. No other country can do that. America is focused on because we are the most feared, are the most powerful. Nicaragua isn't, so why should we care. and besides, you realize that most countries with terrible rights abuse or unfairness were at one time propped up by the US government. in the 90s, nicaragua was, as was Iraq, as was Vietnam, Pol Pot in the Phillipines, Chile, and many others. Sorry to say, but wee are the ones who have already caused the most damage. We have a terrible track record.

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

When there is a rights violation in the US its a big deal, but China does it everyday and you rarely see waves of anti-Chinese sentiment spreading throughout the world. America is a country just like every other country.

That simply because America is supposedly supposed to be the prime example of freedom and free speech. You say they are a country like any other, so why do they act like the worlds police, when they have their own problems to sort out?

[Scorpio3.14]

no, america is not like every other country. we are the most powerful country. other people all over the world fear us because we are the only country who could destroy any country we felt like by pressing a button. No other country can do that. America is focused on because we are the most feared, are the most powerful. Nicaragua isn't, so why should we care. and besides, you realize that most countries with terrible rights abuse or unfairness were at one time propped up by the US government. in the 90s, nicaragua was, as was Iraq, as was Vietnam, Pol Pot in the Phillipines, Chile, and many others. Sorry to say, but wee are the ones who have already caused the most damage. We have a terrible track record.

Lol there are quite a few other countries that could destroy any number of countries with the push of a button. What the rest of the world does is put America on a higher pedistal then any other country but then look down on us when we see ourselves as on a higher pedistal then any other country.

Also, all those countries you mentioned had problems waaay before the US was ever in the picture. To blame their problems on America isnt very fair.

[Negative-Ion]

Because other people dont let us sort out our problems and so they become our problem, which then we have to deal and sort out.

edit: http://radicalreference.info/book/print/735

[stomponfrogs]

GUYS, GIRLS, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS FOUND ITS WAY INTO THE FORUM!!! Stay on a topic that deals with political opinions for once in the history of this freaking forum. The topic creator didn't care if you hate America. He didn't care if you like America either. He wanted to know WHY anyone might hate it.

So, why do you think people hate it? Crappy political decisions? Terrible president? Jealousy? A man nicknamed America urinated on your mom's tombstone? Or maybe you had no idea that there are people in this world that hate it.

Answer the question and shut the fuck up!

Back on topic, I think people hate the US for different reasons. Some don't like the feeling of being policed, some don't like that the supposed 'strongest nation' isn't perfect, some feel that we are bullying the world, and some just hate it because all their friends do. I don't have a problem with it, as I'm living a pretty good life here, but I try to look at things objectively whenever possible.

[dmby]

well i already answered like 2 pages ago

[itachi_kage]

this is my last post before i actually leave. i'm sick of all this anti-american crap. the only person who has any knowledge of the way america is dmby, only because he lives here. this nation is great, i don't care how much debt we have or how much policing we do. i have a great life, there is little threat to that happiness. and for anyone who thinks otherwise, fine. that's why you vote for your politicians. that's why we protest, if you want to change shit, quit complaining and actually do something.

to scorpio: at least one american stands up for his country.

[Negative-Ion]

I had a good day today, i had an awsome BBQ, i went out to see the fire-works, everything was peacefull, now im home eating blue-berries :).

[Praetoriani]

and yes, america does have a higher quality of life than other countries."

Yes.

America is 8th.


Top 10:


1. Norway Norway
2. Sweden Sweden
3. Australia Australia
4. Canada Canada
5. Netherlands Netherlands
6. Belgium Belgium
7. Iceland Iceland
8. United States United States
9. Japan Japan
10. Republic of Ireland Republic of Ireland


I'd say people don't hate Americans because of their excellent quality of life. Otherwise the top 5 would be exceptionally hated aswell. Or the entire top 25 for that matter.


Besides, I don't hate Americans nor Bush as I said again. I'm European, Bush has absolutely no influence on me as I live in the other superpower (And yes, I do mean the EU). And, dare I say it, he seems like a friendly chap to me.

[Niabingi]

GUYS, GIRLS, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS FOUND ITS WAY INTO THE FORUM!!! Stay on a topic that deals with political opinions for once in the history of this freaking forum. The topic creator didn't care if you hate America. He didn't care if you like America either. He wanted to know WHY anyone might hate it.

So, why do you think people hate it? Crappy political decisions? Terrible president? Jealousy? A man nicknamed America urinated on your mom's tombstone? Or maybe you had no idea that there are people in this world that hate it.

Answer the question and shut the fuck up!



i agree with you whole heartedly on this point i did say it a few times over some pages but nobo0dy listened to me they were to busy arguing! The main point of the thread was lost... not only that but some people posted some good opinions on this matter in earlier pages that got lost or left on the wayside...

I think that one reason for people disliking the states comes from two things one being that its as if america has made a rod for its own back by placing judgement on others than this in turn causes more judgement to be placed upon you.
big waster of the worlds natural resources
for a place where there is suppossedly such affluence it alwasy seems to drag its heels in providing aid.... always willing to help provide people "freedom" but when i comes to things like faitr trade and third world debt they seem to be deemed as of lesser importance
to list a few..

[dmby]

this is my last post before i actually leave. i'm sick of all this anti-american crap. the only person who has any knowledge of the way america is dmby, only because he lives here. this nation is great, i don't care how much debt we have or how much policing we do. i have a great life, there is little threat to that happiness. and for anyone who thinks otherwise, fine. that's why you vote for your politicians. that's why we protest, if you want to change shit, quit complaining and actually do something.

Ah, only because i live here? false. I am knowledgeable of the american justice and governmental system because of a few things: I have the ability to reason, have taken 3 different courses in the study of american government, one in foreign policy, and a 2 term course on this exact question of the worlds view of america. also, it helps that a senator from my state lives next to me and we talk sometimes about politics. Don't assume just because i live here i am smart. its because of hard work. and besides, almost 60% of americans still believe that there was at least one iraqi on the planes that hit the WTC. you probably did too. Oh, and about your "happiness": you are deluded. It won't last. It never does. and just because your happy in your own little world doesn't mean america is great. because theres something funny that you might not know: nobody cares about you. maybe your family and friends, but thats it. your happiness means NOTHING to the government. So, sorry, but you might have a different opinion if you were less lucky, or even if you were less arrogant.
and finally, one more thing: you say you don't care about the wrongs of america? then you are not fit to be a citizen. you don't care of america's wrongs? fine, you don't need to. but it just adds to how disgusting your unpatriotic, chauvinistic thoughts are.



to scorpio: at least one american stands up for his country.
Right. I don't stand up for my country because WE WERE WRONG!!!!!!!
i don't care if its my country. bad actions don't deserve support, nor do bad ideas, bad politics, or bad people. so if you pride yourself on standing up for your countries wrongs, maybe america would be better off without you.

[BluebrotherX7]

This war has been a nightmare the first day of the first time that Bush took office. I remember I read an interview saying that his father blew it with the Gulf War. He said that he wanted to have a legacy of a war president like FDR. That, and he wanted revenge on Hussein for trying to kill Bush 41 when he visited the Middle East. Well guess what? We're paying for his ambition and his vengeance.

- The dollar is so low, its sad compared to even the Euro which is owned by the pound.
- Gas prices can hit $3.00 any day now.
- Nobody respects this country anymore.
- Families on sides are being broken apart by bullets
- And BinLaden wont STFU!!!

Otherwise, living in America's pretty great. Happy 4th.

[itachi_kage]

1.Ah, only because i live here? false. I am knowledgeable of the american justice and governmental system because of a few things: I have the ability to reason, have taken 3 different courses in the study of american government, one in foreign policy, and a 2 term course on this exact question of the worlds view of america. also, it helps that a senator from my state lives next to me and we talk sometimes about politics. Don't assume just because i live here i am smart. its because of hard work. and besides, almost 60% of americans still believe that there was at least one iraqi on the planes that hit the WTC. you probably did too.

2. Oh, and about your "happiness": you are deluded. It won't last. It never does. and just because your happy in your own little world doesn't mean america is great. because theres something funny that you might not know: nobody cares about you. maybe your family and friends, but thats it. your happiness means NOTHING to the government. So, sorry, but you might have a different opinion if you were less lucky, or even if you were less arrogant.

3. and finally, one more thing: you say you don't care about the wrongs of america? then you are not fit to be a citizen. you don't care of america's wrongs? fine, you don't need to. but it just adds to how disgusting your unpatriotic, chauvinistic thoughts are.

1. first of all, it's common knowledge iraqis had no part in the 9/11 attacks. you'd be an idiot or uninformed if you thought otherwise. wow a senator lives next to you. oh wow. he must tell you all sorts of evils about our government. i bet he's a swell guy huH?

2. you are the most pesamistic person i've ever seen. my happiness won't last? that's up to me. i choose to believe in myself and my country. i'm not lucky at all. i've worked my ass off for everything i own. my arrogance is only exceeded by your idiocy. as i said before i will support for my country, whether that be fighting or just stating my opinions. you believe in free speech and criticize your own country. fine that's your right to. but you don't know my life, and you certainly do not represent even a small portion of us americans.

3. america has problems obviously. if i felt that they were illegal, i wouldn't be so supportive. yes i understand the u.n. doesn't feel that the war is legal. but as an american i see it as a chance to rid the country of threats to me and this country. i hope the troops come home soon, but only after we've completed our objectives there.


as i've said a million times here, i don't feel that america is better than any other country. i wouldn't say anything bad about anyone's homeland. it's their home, and if they're happy that's all that matters. i have great respect for england and the rest of europe. hopefully next summer i'll get to visit, even though you may not like it. lol

for the people from different countries that i've been arguing with, i hope there's no hard feelings, i'm just sticking up for my country. i hope you all understand.

[Shikamaru-sama]

Itachi_kage, trying not sound harsh, but how was Iraq a threat to the USA?

[itachi_kage]

Itachi_kage, trying not sound harsh, but how was Iraq a threat to the USA?


first of all, suddam hussein has been known to harbor terrorists. and i still believe he had ambitions to create WMD. anybody with that combination is a threat. we were in a war with him 15 years ago and basically humiliated him even though he stated that he won the war. why wouldn't he want to help terrorists out? i'm not as smart as the people in the white house, well except for bush, i'm sure they know alot more than what they make public, maybe for our own good. i just hope iraq as well as afghanastan get some peace. iraq is the "birthplace of man", they're a great nation and they deserve peace.

[Jujubie]

Let's not hate America. Let's hate terrorists. And let's support these wars in the middle east and the "axis of evil." In doing so we will also show how strong we are and make an example out of Iraq so that others hesitate before they try to exert influence over the world hahaha...

[Twizted]

^^^^Agreed 100%

[Nemesis]

Or you try that and anger the muslim population more and indirectly add more terrorists in the world as we could accidentally fuel the BS propagander that Bin laden and his followers spit out every few months when their tapes are somehow found by Al Jazeera TV the voice of the islamic extreamist as it is seem by some in the west

Gas prices can hit $3.00 any day now

wow that little if you really should try british prices of gas/petrol then know what it is like to be hit heavily when trying to fill up your car. Compared to us $3.00 a gallon is nothing when you have to pay between $8-$11 depending on where you live

[Twizted]

We anger the extremist muslim population no matter what we do. Better to be on the offensive than let them have their way with us.

[Nemesis]

yes i know but what i am saying is that by going on offensive without thinking you will turn moderates into extremists. It happened to UK with Northern Ireland when we went in too heavy all it did was to turn more catholics to the IRA and the same thing will happen if america goes into shoot now ask questions later mode

[Twizted]

I agree completely. What I am saying is that we are not going on the offensive without thinking. If we were doing that, there would be no middle east left;) I believe that a war in Iraq was necessary for two main reasons. The Baath party was responsible for the deaths of countless of their own defenseless citizens, and it was intentional. The second reason is that with an Iraq led by someone who was anti-west and had a history of developing WMD's, it was possible that in the future, Iraq could supply terrorists with weapons.

[itachi_kage]

Or you try that and anger the muslim population more and indirectly add more terrorists in the world as we could accidentally fuel the BS propagander that Bin laden and his followers spit out every few months when their tapes are somehow found by Al Jazeera TV the voice of the islamic extreamist as it is seem by some in the west

excellent point of view. muslims already hate christians for their beliefs and democracy. it'd make it 1000 times worse if us supposed "allies" started pushing our weight around. we have to first try some diplomacy.

wow that little if you really should try british prices of gas/petrol then know what it is like to be hit heavily when trying to fill up your car. Compared to us $3.00 a gallon is nothing when you have to pay between $8-$11 depending on where you live

$8-$11? wow. i'm not that knowledgable on gas prices, but damn. i remember like not even 10 years ago the prices were at $1.20 here. time to start riding your bikes guys!

[Nemesis]

yeah most of it is throught tax though. Like a place that would be exact $10 per gallon $8 would go straight to the government through tax (i live in uk). They are trying to make us use public transport which itself is soo poorly run (poor seats, smells of urine and timetable is just an estimate as everything is at least 10 minutes late) and just as expensive that using them is not really an option either

[Jujubie]

"we have to first try some diplomacy."

We've done diplomacy for years. Clinton did it back it his day. And Bush Senior in his day too. It's time we anger many heads and assert control.

Edit: I can't wait until we the US develop new energy tech and sources. We must get rid of our dependence on the uncapitalist OPEC cartel.

[itachi_kage]

"we have to first try some diplomacy."

We've done diplomacy for years. Clinton did it back it his day. And Bush Senior in his day too. It's time we anger many heads and assert control.

and then a country, say north korea, teams up with a country like china with their millions and millions of soldiers and decides to attack the u.s. directly, either by nuke or whatnot. it'd be foolish to say that wouldn't happen. north korea's leader is a crazy son of bitch, with no regard for his people or even himself. if he feels threatened, it's very possible we might get hit. i have faith in our troops, but i don't think it's wise to screw with someone like them, without first having more aid from allies.

[Nemesis]

I agree completely. What I am saying is that we are not going on the offensive without thinking. If we were doing that, there would be no middle east left;) I believe that a war in Iraq was necessary for two main reasons. The Baath party was responsible for the deaths of countless of their own defenseless citizens, and it was intentional. The second reason is that with an Iraq led by someone who was anti-west and had a history of developing WMD's, it was possible that in the future, Iraq could supply terrorists with weapons.

Nono don't get me wrong i was pro war with Iraq what i am saying is that with the terrorist organisations yes you can go hard on them but not too hard as you will just start doing the one thing you want to avoid which is becoming the main recruiting force for these groups.

plus Jujubie you can't stop diplomacy while fighting what do you think ended the Main IRA threat to people in britain.

Yes i agree about north Korea and hope something can be done about it but if america goes in i hope UK stays out this time. Not because i want North Korea and china to win but I would like to see our gov to sort out a dictator of our own making in Zimbabwe with Robert Mugabe It unfortunately seems he needs taking out by force as well since although most of his people don't want him in power they are powerless to stop him since he has support of militias and police force and military

[Jujubie]

itachi, i know that would happen so i meant exert influence through force. preemptive strikes and so forth. and nemesis, i didnt mean stop diplomacy. i meant put more focus on war than diplomacy.

[itachi_kage]

itachi, i know that would happen so i meant exert influence through force. preemptive strikes and so forth. and nemesis, i didnt mean stop diplomacy. i meant put more focus on war than diplomacy.

so basically you want us to make sure we take out every nuke north korea has and any means of bombing us even though we don't know where they are and pray that we got em all?

i would love to be able to take china, north korea, iran, syria and all those terrorist communist nations and convert them and make sure they know that the world won't put up with it's shit, but it's not happening.

[Nemesis]

Yes you keep pre empting and soon you will find that the russians and chinese will think "oh sh*t we could be next* and form an alliance and other minor countries will look to them for protection and low and behold say hello to cold war part 2.

[Jujubie]

I didnt mean right away. I say take care of n korea first and make it into another iraq episode, then take out opec, wait a decade or more until tech is sufficient enough to make our presense felt in one fell swoop.

[itachi_kage]

Yes you keep pre empting and soon you will find that the russians and chinese will think "oh sh*t we could be next* and form an alliance and other minor countries will look to them for protection and low and behold say hello to cold war part 2.

try world war 3. and then world war 4 after that's finished. the only countries not involved would be ones in central america and south america. edit: god, the thought of n. korea, china, russia + a middle eastern country like iran....so many chances of disaster.

and if we try taking them on one at a time all that's going to do is give the other countries time to plan and strategize against us. it's not like they wont' see a pattern. "hmmm first afghanastan, then iraq, then north korea and china, and then who's next...hmmmmm"

[Nemesis]

yes but who knows what might happen in a decades time though perhaps by then americas influence will begin to decline and the EU countries somehow sort out their differences and start influencing instead. Or China does one last final push and achieve their super power status or Russia revives itself. You should really stop going on saying this world is america's for the taking as it is why many people world wide don't like the country as its people like that, that seemingly are heard the most outside of USA

The reason why i didn't say WW3 is simply because the way the war on terror is going now in the future after hopefully it dies down history will show it as WW3

[Devonin]

i would love to be able to take china, north korea, iran, syria and all those terrorist communist nations and convert them and make sure they know that the world won't put up with it's shit, but it's not happening.

The depths of ignorance and arrogance implicit in this paragraph boggle my mind.

Considering that last I checked, Iran, and Syria are most definately not communist states.

And where do you get off thinking that your 230 year old country can dictate a forced conversion to mellenium-old nations?

If you want to stand up and say "Might makes right, we're invading you!" go for it, and while I won't agree with you, I'll respect you. But this "we'r doing the world a moral service and saving them from themselves!" bullshit has got to go.

You aren't the messiah nation, you're invaders, usupers, and while I have no problem with that, as it's how the world has operated for thousands of years, you could at least show the world the respect it deserves as having almost universally been around longer than you, and just -tell- them that's what you are.

[Jujubie]

Doesn't matter if they're communist or not. They're evil. Iran and Syria are evil.

[Devonin]

Doesn't matter if they're communist or not. They're evil. Iran and Syria are evil.

To you. But I bet the people there that see The Giant War Machine Of America looming, poised to roll in and kill their families, and destory their buildings think of them as pretty evil too.

[dmby]

1. first of all, it's common knowledge iraqis had no part in the 9/11 attacks. you'd be an idiot or uninformed if you thought otherwise. wow a senator lives next to you. oh wow. he must tell you all sorts of evils about our government. i bet he's a swell guy huH?
here:

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link
WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost four years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved.

The belief in the connection persists even though there has been no proof of a link between the two.

President Bush and members of his administration suggested a link between the two in the months before the war in Iraq. Claims of possible links have never been proven, however.

riiiiight, real edumacated, most americans are, huh? And about the senator comment, i was just saying i have more insight into the government than you assumed i did.


2. you are the most pesamistic person i've ever seen. my happiness won't last? that's up to me. i choose to believe in myself and my country. i'm not lucky at all. i've worked my ass off for everything i own. my arrogance is only exceeded by your idiocy. as i said before i will support for my country, whether that be fighting or just stating my opinions. you believe in free speech and criticize your own country. fine that's your right to. but you don't know my life, and you certainly do not represent even a small portion of us americans.

i understand that i don't know your life... and nor do you know mine. I am happy here, so are you. but i am just more critical of my country than you are.



first of all, suddam hussein has been known to harbor terrorists. and i still believe he had ambitions to create WMD. anybody with that combination is a threat. we were in a war with him 15 years ago and basically humiliated him even though he stated that he won the war. why wouldn't he want to help terrorists out? i'm not as smart as the people in the white house, well except for bush, i'm sure they know alot more than what they make public, maybe for our own good. i just hope iraq as well as afghanastan get some peace. iraq is the "birthplace of man", they're a great nation and they deserve peace.
You do know that Saddam and Bin Laden hate each others guts, right? they don't like each other. and besides, Saudi Arabia aspires for Nukes, and India has them, yet both countries harbor terrorism. through your reasoning, India and Saudi Arabia should have been attacked too, correct? or are you leaving some of your reasoning out? Seriously, this pre-emptive strike bullshit should not be tolerated. if you get put in jail for being a mean guy and wanting to kill someone, is that remotely legal? No. See my point?
Oh, and you know that in the Iran-Iraq war, America supplied Iraq with the majority of their weapons that they used... including many that are being found in the country now.

Let's not hate America. Let's hate terrorists. And let's support these wars in the middle east and the "axis of evil." In doing so we will also show how strong we are and make an example out of Iraq so that others hesitate before they try to exert influence over the world hahaha...Let's not hate America. Let's hate terrorists. And let's support these wars in the middle east and the "axis of evil." In doing so we will also show how strong we are and make an example out of Iraq so that others hesitate before they try to exert influence over the world hahaha...

You are an idiot. :oh

i am dead serious when i say that is one of the dumbest ideas... ever. its what we call "blatent propaganda". making an example? how bout we become an example by dumping some of our nukes? other countries would follow, and if they don't, we can still destroy any country of our choosing.


We anger the extremist muslim population no matter what we do. Better to be on the offensive than let them have their way with us.
you really think they would ever "have their way with us"? its pretty unlikely for a bunch of extremists to do any great harm to our country after our security boosing after 9/11. but hay, extremists of all the religions, including christianity, exist now, and they should be stopped, all of them, not just extremist muslims.


I agree completely. What I am saying is that we are not going on the offensive without thinking. If we were doing that, there would be no middle east left I believe that a war in Iraq was necessary for two main reasons. The Baath party was responsible for the deaths of countless of their own defenseless citizens, and it was intentional. The second reason is that with an Iraq led by someone who was anti-west and had a history of developing WMD's, it was possible that in the future, Iraq could supply terrorists with weapons.
once again, thought crime. they COULD develope WMDs so we should bomb the fuck outta them. great idea, bush. what next? no sex ed in schools? ok!


itachi, i know that would happen so i meant exert influence through force. preemptive strikes and so forth. and nemesis, i didnt mean stop diplomacy. i meant put more focus on war than diplomacy.
at no point in the history of the world has putting more focus on war than diplomacy done any good. Rome did it at least twice with Persia, the Greeks did it all the time, Germany did it twice, France did it, England did it, hell, The MONGOLS did it. and it ALWAYS fails. seriously. take a clue from previous blunders and focus only on diplomacy.



i would love to be able to take china, north korea, iran, syria and all those terrorist communist nations and convert them and make sure they know that the world won't put up with it's shit, but it's not happening.
Oh for fuck sake! this is one of the main reasons why america will not last at this rate. This thought of communist being "evil" is pure 1960s cold war bullshit. Communism might not work, but at least it doesn't allow corporations to take it over and systematically rape anything in their way.

and you said "the world". bullshit. by "the world" you mean "england and the us, and the guys we bullied into fighting with us". the majority of the world would rather have us get the shit beaten out of us so we get tought a lesson.


You aren't the messiah nation, you're invaders, usupers, and while I have no problem with that, as it's how the world has operated for thousands of years, you could at least show the world the respect it deserves as having almost universally been around longer than you, and just -tell- them that's what you are.

thank you devonin. and its so true. if the US wants to "lay it all on the table" as bush said once, we might as well have america unstrap its pants, turn to the world and say, "pants down, turn around, don't scream too loud. We wan't your oil and your resources, and we want you to become christian, so you will be further blinded by our "morals" and then you won't notice as much as we shove it up a little bit deeper, and a little bit DEEPER!"

thats what america should say. at least we would be telling the truth.

[itachi_kage]

The depths of ignorance and arrogance implicit in this paragraph boggle my mind.

Considering that last I checked, Iran, and Syria are most definately not communist states.

And where do you get off thinking that your 230 year old country can dictate a forced conversion to mellenium-old nations?

If you want to stand up and say "Might makes right, we're invading you!" go for it, and while I won't agree with you, I'll respect you. But this "we'r doing the world a moral service and saving them from themselves!" bullshit has got to go.

You aren't the messiah nation, you're invaders, usupers, and while I have no problem with that, as it's how the world has operated for thousands of years, you could at least show the world the respect it deserves as having almost universally been around longer than you, and just -tell- them that's what you are.



yeah i worded it wrong. i was going to type something else and didn't change the word communist. but i'm sure you've never done that before.

second of all, the united states is not in the axis of evil. iran is. so is north korea. syria should be too, bush and many other leaders have said that syria harbors terrorists, we just can't prove it yet.

you would be a stupid nation to even whisper that shit you suggested! we're not fucking invaders at all. what was the last country we've taken over and claimed as our own? we're not taking over the world country by country changing them. why don't you stick to your own problems, i'm sure you've got plenty of them.

you keep putting words in my mouth. i never said we were better than anyone else, i never said anything bad about any country or their people.

and must i remind you, that the united states has had the most stable, consistent government in the world, so the age of our country doesn't mean anything. go back to school, get beat up by the bullies, and cry the same bullshit again. don't lecture me if you're brain is the size of your nuts.

why don't you take a page out of Nemesis's book, he's not being biased and not taking things out of context. you sir, are a disgrace to yourself and your country, and i have nothing left to say to you. i will no longer respond to shit you say, because it has no substance, no reasoning, and is all rude. i have said nothing about any other countries or that we are better than any other country, yet you keep insisting i'm glorifying us as a conqueror.

[itachi_kage]

here: riiiiight, real edumacated, most americans are, huh? And about the senator comment, i was just saying i have more insight into the government than you assumed i did.

yeah did you know that (i forget the exact estimated figure from the poll) but something like 30% of americans can't even name the vice president. so who's going to remember what countries the hijackers were from? if i remember right, most were saudi, a few of them actually had u.s. resedency, and i'm not sure on the rest.

You do know that Saddam and Bin Laden hate each others guts, right? they don't like each other. and besides, Saudi Arabia aspires for Nukes, and India has them, yet both countries harbor terrorism. through your reasoning, India and Saudi Arabia should have been attacked too, correct? or are you leaving some of your reasoning out? Seriously, this pre-emptive strike bullshit should not be tolerated. if you get put in jail for being a mean guy and wanting to kill someone, is that remotely legal? No. See my point?
Oh, and you know that in the Iran-Iraq war, America supplied Iraq with the majority of their weapons that they used... including many that are being found in the country now.

what was the phrase? the enemy of my enemy is my friend? is that it? look, suddam and osama hate eachother, but they hate us more, easily. india and saudia arabia are our allies, saudia arabia and the u.s.'s relationship is shaky right now, but they are still allies. besides it's not their governments harboring them, it's individual groups.

if you know, and have proof that someone is planning to kill you or attack you and you take that proof to the police, can they arrest that person?

as far as the iran and american war, we gave them weapons, not chemical gases and were not aware of how the weapons would be used.

and devonin also said "I bet the people there that see The Giant War Machine Of America looming, poised to roll in and kill their families, and destory their buildings think of them as pretty evil too."

that is horrible, come on now. when have we deliberatley killed families and civilians? when? they know that, and so do you. they also see us bringing in aid and food, and medicine. but i guess in your country they don't show that do they?

[Niabingi]

somebody please for the love of god stay on the tpic of the thread! If you are American and take offense to peoples opinion of your country then dont bother to come to a thread that asks why people hate america and the wars in the middle east?

oh and itachi_kage deliberate or not more innocent civlians have died in Iraq than is justifiable the numbe is estimated as around 22,000 as a minimmum thats enough to put more civillians of the coallition forces regardless off any aid they may give.... If i saw a homeless man on the street who was hungry and in need went up to him kicked him kinda hard a few times and then gave him a cheeseburger do you think he'd still be grateful? Oh and i said estimated 22,000 because the coallition forces have deemed it an unworthy task to at least bother to count the human cost of iraqi civillians the war on terrorism has had thats like delivering the message that their lives were too ceap to even be counted or acknowledged I dont think thats right!

[itachi_kage]

somebody please for the love of god stay on the tpic of the thread! If you are American and take offense to peoples opinion of your country then dont bother to come to a thread that asks why people hate america and the wars in the middle east?

oh and itachi_kage deliberate or not more innocent civlians have died in Iraq than is justifiable the numbe is estimated as around 22,000 as a minimmum thats enough to put more civillians of the coallition forces regardless off any aid they may give.... If i saw a homeless man on the street who was hungry and in need went up to him kicked him kinda hard a few times and then gave him a cheeseburger do you think he'd still be grateful? Oh and i said estimated 22,000 because the coallition forces have deemed it an unworthy task to at least bother to count the human cost of iraqi civillians the war on terrorism has had thats like delivering the message that their lives were too ceap to even be counted or acknowledged I dont think thats right!

i dont' care if people voice their opinion on this country. that doesn't matter to me. it does matter though when people start spouting false statements and calling us evil and invaders. it's all b.s. and any intelligent individual knows it.

as for the 22,000, i've actually heard a larger number, but about 70% of that is from terrorist attacks. the car bombs and such. the majority of death related to coalition forces has been by mistake and occurs sadly in every war. i just hope all this death is going to lead to something. at first i liked this thread, because i too, would like to know why the rest of the world doesn't like us as americans. my conclusion, alot of ignorance on both sides.

[Niabingi]

I too liked this thread initially until everybody started getting all uppity and upset, is somebody wants to call america evil invaders so be it im sure they have their reasons false or not...
Rabidly defending america in this thread (which I may point out is the wrong thread) it has done you no favours... what would have been more logical would be to allow people to post there varying reasons for disliking the U.S. here and then start another thread answring the various points raised or giving an american view on those matters instead of making this place into a warzone.

as for the 22,000 as I said that was a conservative estiate i went with the minimmum possible number, my personal opinion is so far all those deaths havent been worth it which is why america, britain and the various other coallition forces are too ashamed to put an actual number on the civillian cost of the war

[itachi_kage]

I too liked this thread initially until everybody started getting all uppity and upset, is somebody wants to call america evil invaders so be it im sure they have their reasons false or not...
Rabidly defending america in this thread (which I may point out is the wrong thread) it has done you no favours... what would have been more logical would be to allow people to post there varying reasons for disliking the U.S. here and then start another thread answring the various points raised or giving an american view on those matters instead of making this place into a warzone.

as for the 22,000 as I said that was a conservative estiate i went with the minimmum possible number, my personal opinion is so far all those deaths havent been worth it which is why america, britain and the various other coallition forces are too ashamed to put an actual number on the civillian cost of the war

look i know everyone thinks i'm an asshole, oh well. listening to people attack my home is like listening to someone pick on my 12 year old brother, i have to say something. i didn't change anyone's minds and i don't care.

[Niabingi]

look i know everyone thinks i'm an asshole, oh well. listening to people attack my home is like listening to someone pick on my 12 year old brother, i have to say something. i didn't change anyone's minds and i don't care.

you dont care... not even if I say that if you had done as I had suggested and started a sperate reply thread or at least answered people in an eloquent and dignified manner than not onyl would less people think you were an asshole but also you may have been able to let more people see things from your point of view and possibly (and this is doubtful but possibly) changed a few peoples opinions but you pissed that opportunity up the wall by replying in a fevered and angry state!

[itachi_kage]

you dont care... not even if I say that if you had done as I had suggested and started a sperate reply thread or at least answered people in an eloquent and dignified manner than not onyl would less people think you were an asshole but also you may have been able to let more people see things from your point of view and possibly (and this is doubtful but possibly) changed a few peoples opinions but you pissed that opportunity up the wall by replying in a fevered and angry state!

i honestly don't care. if i had started a seperate thread, i gurantee the same thing would happen. if it was face to face i might be able to change someone's mind, not through the internet. if i made people angry, i'm sorry, but i can't just sit around. i've gotten two + reps from people who are happy i'm standing up for our country, but they didn't post a single time in here. 3 neg reps as well. 2 people had the balls to leave their names and the other is meaningless.

this is a touchy subject for me. i've never been this pissed off because of idiots on the forum. never. i've never been in arguments on here over anything. i tried to stop, and i was even in a seperate discussion with nemesis, but yet, those two idiots pulled me back into their argument.

[Niabingi]

yeah I had to hold myslef from neg repping you a good few times your like my least favourite type of person to discuss, deabte or argue with because of lack of the ability to listen and try and understand other peoples views instead of seeing every statement from your P.O.V
for example your taking all those terrorist communist countrie and converting was probably the worst thing you said! the idea of "conversion" wtf? thats why britain has such a horrible legacy from the crusades and the colonial times...


anyway Whatever! somebody should close this thread down.... Its only ever gonna go off topic no matter how many people try and posts on topic or whatever it just keeps going off topic...

[Jedi Mind Tricks]

Doesn't matter if they're communist or not. They're evil. Iran and Syria are evil.

No.

Bombing the shit out of innocent Iraqi citizens for oil and contracts seems pretty evil to me.


i would love to be able to take china, north korea, iran, syria and all those terrorist communist nations and convert them and make sure they know that the world won't put up with it's shit, but it's not happening.

There are a lot of things wrong with this, but the obvious is that you want to convert them?

That quote alone shows your feelings towards countries that don't think the same as America, all you see right is what the U.S. do, even when it's just plain wrong.

[minnatrix]

America pisses me off, because of all the corrupt things our government did. I dislike the fact that the supreme court ruled that the feds could arrest a person who is using marijuana for medication.

[Raistlin-sama]

this is a touchy subject for me. i've never been this pissed off because of idiots on the forum. never. i've never been in arguments on here over anything. i tried to stop, and i was even in a seperate discussion with nemesis, but yet, those two idiots pulled me back into their argument.

By those two idiots, I don't hope you mean me? Becoarse I never intended to offend anyone, was just stating my honest opinion.

Anyways, I think it's unfair that you call some countries (China, Syria and so on) evil. Since that is merely a matter of perspective. Maybe you dislike them, but you can't say their evil. Just like I can't say the US is evil, even though I dislike it.

[dmby]

yeah did you know that (i forget the exact estimated figure from the poll) but something like 30% of americans can't even name the vice president. so who's going to remember what countries the hijackers were from? if i remember right, most were saudi, a few of them actually had u.s. resedency, and i'm not sure on the rest.
Right. that shows how stupid some people are, i guess lol. but my point was that a reason that many believed bush when he wanted to go to war was because they thought Iraq had helped Bin Laden, somthing we now know as totally false. If Iraq DID attack us, id have no problem goin in there and straightening things up.


what was the phrase? the enemy of my enemy is my friend? is that it? look, suddam and osama hate eachother, but they hate us more, easily. india and saudia arabia are our allies, saudia arabia and the u.s.'s relationship is shaky right now, but they are still allies. besides it's not their governments harboring them, it's individual groups.
actually in saudi Arabia the government is harboring terrorists, but we won't attack them because they would withdraw their trillions of dollars from our economy and we would collapse. and Iraq didn't harbor Al Qaeda. Saddam actually disapproved of their actions and motives.


if you know, and have proof that someone is planning to kill you or attack you and you take that proof to the police, can they arrest that person?
Yes, but in this case theree was no proof. Sorry, but war is unnacptable unless their is 100% proof that they have weapons. not that they made them. and besides, Inspectors went into Iraq and found no weapons. that isn't 100% sureness, is it?



as far as the iran and american war, we gave them weapons, not chemical gases and were not aware of how the weapons would be used.
WE GAVE THEM CHEMICALS TO MAKE THE GAS!
we gave iraq a number of things, including mustard gas and anthrax. and we gave it to him so he could kill. what did we expect? we expected them to use it on Iran. they did, and then had some left over, which they kept. and then we got pissed. So, just stop your complaining about Iraq having deadly weapons, when we gavve most of them to him.


that is horrible, come on now. when have we deliberatley killed families and civilians? when? they know that, and so do you. they also see us bringing in aid and food, and medicine. but i guess in your country they don't show that do they?

Im from america, you fucking dipshit. i never said anything about that.




as for the 22,000, i've actually heard a larger number, but about 70% of that is from terrorist attacks. the car bombs and such. the majority of death related to coalition forces has been by mistake and occurs sadly in every war. i just hope all this death is going to lead to something. at first i liked this thread, because i too, would like to know why the rest of the world doesn't like us as americans. my conclusion, alot of ignorance on both sides.

the deaths will lead to something, alright: more people hating us. If we got attacked tomorrow by a bunch of countries because we have WMDs and our leader is crazy (they think), and the your house gets blown up by accident and you see your mom blown apart in front of you, pieces of her hitting your bloody body, what would you think about your attackers? "oh great they came to save us!"? no. you, your naighboers, and everyone else would probably think "they killed his family, we must stop them at all costs".


this is a touchy subject for me. i've never been this pissed off because of idiots on the forum. never. i've never been in arguments on here over anything. i tried to stop, and i was even in a seperate discussion with nemesis, but yet, those two idiots pulled me back into their argument.
funny, you call me an idiot simply because i have a different opinion than you, which is still valid, and i even support my opinion very well with research and studies. and yet you called ME a "disrespectful idiot" awhile ago... interesting. your the one who started throwing the insults around. seriously, stop calling people idiots because we have a different perspective than you do. its just proving your arrogance.

[itachi_kage]

yeah I had to hold myslef from neg repping you a good few times your like my least favourite type of person to discuss, deabte or argue with because of lack of the ability to listen and try and understand other peoples views instead of seeing every statement from your P.O.V
for example your taking all those terrorist communist countrie and converting was probably the worst thing you said! the idea of "conversion" wtf? thats why britain has such a horrible legacy from the crusades and the colonial times...


anyway Whatever! somebody should close this thread down.... Its only ever gonna go off topic no matter how many people try and posts on topic or whatever it just keeps going off topic...

i'm not answering anybody else on here. i'm done. no more debating it's pointless. we come from 2 different worlds, even me and dmby eventhough we live in the same country.

to you sir, i say i'm sorry if i offended you in any way, even though i don't see how i could do so. i don't remember if i said anything bad to you, but if i did, sorry. if i ever had the chance i would love to debate with any of you face to face, it's much easier to do. i guarantee i wouldn't have said any harsh things, thats not my personality. over the internet though, it's hard to show your emotions. if you can tell, i am a fair guy. i may have lost my temper a little, but i didn't neg rep anyone in here, i even +repped a couple people for leaving their names in a neg rep.

you all know how i feel on this subject and i'm done. i'm sure you're all great guys, if we ever meet up in a different thread...let's not talk about politics ok?

p.s. i am arrogant! :laugh

[dmby]

thanks itachi, sorry if i offended you as well. i guess it was bound to happen in politics :laugh ill see you around, and hopefully the next discussion won't suck as much.

[nejis-eyes]

Whats the current thread of conversation?

Or has everyone dropped it and we've reverted back to the orriginal intention of the post?

[BarbNara]

OK, first of all:
I´m not American, I don´t hate it, but I don´t care of it. Simple as that. Do you (Americans) care specially of Spain? Do you know that we´re not like Mexico or do you really believed that we burn our saint people just like they say in Mission Impossible 2? The same ignorance that you have with "smalls countries" is what you deserve from those countries (and yet you don´t have it, ´cause I know more about American history that any American here of Spanish [and European, if you push me]).

Another reason why American earned hate (let´s call it that way since the thread is "Let´s hate America") it´s in my opinion their arrogance. Let´s see:
America is a great country (blah blah blah), but in fact it´s a really young country. So, a 500 years old country babbling about "the chosen nation" or "God bless America" is a little weird, since the old continent (Europe) in it´s thousens years of existence has never been so arrogant.
The war issue: what if ETA (basque separatist group from Spain) was responsible of 9/11 and not Al-Qaeda? Would Bush had bombed Basque Country or Spain? I don´t think so, but why?´Cause Spain is a "normal country"? A lot of people that died in Afganistan were peasants that didn´t know what happened that day. But they deserved to die ´cause they were (pressumably) in the same country than a mind-washer terrorist trained by the CIA. That´s so unfair!
The rest of the world don´t hate America for being superior, hate America for believing themselves superior and reacting like if they were kings of the world, not thinking in anybody beyond themselves (Kyoto treatment, another example).

Please, any American don´t feel offended, this is an opinion, I´m not specially American-hater, but like I have said before, I don´t specially like it.

[Praetoriani]

OK, first of all:
I´m not American, I don´t hate it, but I don´t care of it. Simple as that. Do you (Americans) care specially of Spain? Do you know that we´re not like Mexico or do you really believed that we burn our saint people just like they say in Mission Impossible 2? The same ignorance that you have with "smalls countries" is what you deserve from those countries (and yet you don´t have it, ´cause I know more about American history that any American here of Spanish [and European, if you push me]).

Another reason why American earned hate (let´s call it that way since the thread is "Let´s hate America") it´s in my opinion their arrogance. Let´s see:
America is a great country (blah blah blah), but in fact it´s a really young country. So, a 500 years old country babbling about "the chosen nation" or "God bless America" is a little weird, since the old continent (Europe) in it´s thousens years of existence has never been so arrogant.
The war issue: what if ETA (basque separatist group from Spain) was responsible of 9/11 and not Al-Qaeda? Would Bush had bombed Basque Country or Spain? I don´t think so, but why?´Cause Spain is a "normal country"? A lot of people that died in Afganistan were peasants that didn´t know what happened that day. But they deserved to die ´cause they were (pressumably) in the same country than a mind-washer terrorist trained by the CIA. That´s so unfair!
The rest of the world don´t hate America for being superior, hate America for believing themselves superior and reacting like if they were kings of the world, not thinking in anybody beyond themselves (Kyoto treatment, another example).

Please, any American don´t feel offended, this is an opinion, I´m not specially American-hater, but like I have said before, I don´t specially like it.


You're claiming that you know a lot about American history and then claim USA is 500 years old?

...

[Negative-Ion]

You're claiming that you know a lot about American history and then claim USA is 500 years old?

...
heeheh it shows how much history the guy knows. I think he should read about when the war for independence started.

[itachi_kage]

OK, first of all:
I´m not American, I don´t hate it, but I don´t care of it. Simple as that. Do you (Americans) care specially of Spain? Do you know that we´re not like Mexico or do you really believed that we burn our saint people just like they say in Mission Impossible 2? The same ignorance that you have with "smalls countries" is what you deserve from those countries (and yet you don´t have it, ´cause I know more about American history that any American here of Spanish [and European, if you push me]).

Another reason why American earned hate (let´s call it that way since the thread is "Let´s hate America") it´s in my opinion their arrogance. Let´s see:
America is a great country (blah blah blah), but in fact it´s a really young country. So, a 500 years old country babbling about "the chosen nation" or "God bless America" is a little weird, since the old continent (Europe) in it´s thousens years of existence has never been so arrogant.
The war issue: what if ETA (basque separatist group from Spain) was responsible of 9/11 and not Al-Qaeda? Would Bush had bombed Basque Country or Spain? I don´t think so, but why?´Cause Spain is a "normal country"? A lot of people that died in Afganistan were peasants that didn´t know what happened that day. But they deserved to die ´cause they were (pressumably) in the same country than a mind-washer terrorist trained by the CIA. That´s so unfair!
The rest of the world don´t hate America for being superior, hate America for believing themselves superior and reacting like if they were kings of the world, not thinking in anybody beyond themselves (Kyoto treatment, another example).

Please, any American don´t feel offended, this is an opinion, I´m not specially American-hater, but like I have said before, I don´t specially like it.


first of all i want to send my condolences to everyone there in the u.k. and make sure the 2 or 3 people from london posting in this thread are ok?

it's true, i don't know a whole lot about spain, it's as you said, spain isn't really the huge country in the middle of all the worlds affairs as is the u.k. and u.s. the little i do know is that spain is a beautiful country, they pulled their troops out of iraq after the madrid bombings, and that spain is NOT MEXICO. it's funny that you say that though. everyone here thinks spain is mexico. it's like, they eat burritos and tacos in spain. that's rediculous. that's like saying that they speak spanish in brazil.

many americans are arrogant, thinking that nothing can harm us and that we are the greatest country in the world. i love my country and have much pride in it. but i'd be a fool to say we were better than anyone else. each country has something different to offer. we as americans, have a solid economy, opportunities to fufil our individual dreams, and a system that has for the most part kept us safe from terrorism. but then you could probably say the same for your country. it's all about how you look at it. my point is, the majority of us americans just want to fit in to the world and go about our lives.

lastly, why does everyone act like this country is so young? we've had the same exact government for about 250 years now. no other country can say that. as far as cultural ideas, we are very young. as far as history, we are very young.

[dmby]

true, itachi. i agree with everything you said.

[itachi_kage]

true, itachi. i agree with everything you said.

WTF?!?!? is that a trick question? :amazed


EDIT@*@** just to add something else.

you know though, i feel kinda weird, when i saw what happened last night, it was like 2am or something in california, i froze . i remembered what i said about "i hope if something happens to england the u.s. turns it's back on you". i don't think i've felt more like a jerk ever in my life. and then i started remembering how i felt on 9/11. i wanted to kill somebody that day. all i saw in my head all day is people jumping from the buildings and people covered in ash and dust. at first i only knew that one plane flew into the building, i laughed it off and said "a drunk pilot probably" and at that moment the second plane hit and i knew i was wrong. that's the same feeling i had yesterday when i found out about it. the only thing i'm happy about though is that so far there is no video to see people dying and explosions. i'm still trying to get those pictures out of my head. my thoughts and prayers are with you london.

[dmby]

it is a terrible thing what happened in London. but i respect you guys there so much for having the guts to go about your normal business after that terrible thing happened. i really respect you guys and your fortitude

[Niabingi]

WTF?!?!? is that a trick question? :amazed


EDIT@*@** just to add something else.

you know though, i feel kinda weird, when i saw what happened last night, it was like 2am or something in california, i froze . i remembered what i said about "i hope if something happens to england the u.s. turns it's back on you". i don't think i've felt more like a jerk ever in my life. and then i started remembering how i felt on 9/11. i wanted to kill somebody that day. all i saw in my head all day is people jumping from the buildings and people covered in ash and dust. at first i only knew that one plane flew into the building, i laughed it off and said "a drunk pilot probably" and at that moment the second plane hit and i knew i was wrong. that's the same feeling i had yesterday when i found out about it. the only thing i'm happy about though is that so far there is no video to see people dying and explosions. i'm still trying to get those pictures out of my head. my thoughts and prayers are with you london.

We are doing good down hre in London and I wouldnt worry about what you said too tough man these things happen and I its just coincidental ttiming i live one minute away from one of the bomb sites at kings cross and was waiting to catch the tube train that exploded at the station i changed my mind and caught a different train cos there were too many people waiting at the platform I thank god that i did...
Anyway life is getting back to normal quite fast londoners are refusing to give in to fear or act irrationally and loads of people caught the trains and buses into work today its the old 'dunkirk spirit' lots of people travelled today as an act of defiance to show that such acts will not halt the flow of life in the city...

[dmby]

well, in the past, england has had a SHITLOAD of things to deal with. i mean, moreso than most countries. i think you guys have the experience lol.

[itachi_kage]

We are doing good down hre in London and I wouldnt worry about what you said too tough man these things happen and I its just coincidental ttiming i live one minute away from one of the bomb sites at kings cross and was waiting to catch the tube train that exploded at the station i changed my mind and caught a different train cos there were too many people waiting at the platform I thank god that i did...
Anyway life is getting back to normal quite fast londoners are refusing to give in to fear or act irrationally and loads of people caught the trains and buses into work today its the old 'dunkirk spirit' lots of people travelled today as an act of defiance to show that such acts will not halt the flow of life in the city...

good. that's what happened with nyc too. but the difference is you guys had your transportation to work terrorized. nyc had their work terrorized. no way in hell i could ever go on one of those busses or the subway for a while.

[Nemesis]

well, in the past, england has had a SHITLOAD of things to deal with. i mean, moreso than most countries. i think you guys have the experience lol.

Yeah although what happened yesterday was a tragic attack on london bye cold blooded murderous basterds London has gone through a lot in the past 100 years and some of these are alot worse in which i mean the blitz. And other terrorist attacks by irish terrorists from the 60s-mid 90s and they got over them showing their strength.

The People of london are strong and won't let anyone or anything alter their lives and show that they never have or ever will let terrorists get their way over them

[NashNinja]

With The States having very high standards when compared to the vast majority of the world, it does spark up a little evny sometimes. Now, with Arab extremists, like the ones that operate terrorist groups and other nasty not nice things over in the Middle East typically being very intolerant of infidels like us, they tend to notice when we stick out, something that we've been known to do. This of course, only explains why the Muslim extremist population of the world may have a vendetta against us.

For the rest of the world, keep in mind that the USA has involvments in numerous affairs around the world, so we may be seen as confrontational by some people. We also have a number of stupid and/or ignorant people getting attention across the multimedia world, so they set us up for a nice stereotype for citizens of other countries to take notice of. Of course, a lot of anti American types from around the world have been getting attention as well, so we Americans may be subject to the stereotype that the global community hates us, so it's a bit of a rough cycle. There are many finer details, as well, but most of it's likely to be international media attention supporting the sterotypes of people around the world. Nasty stuff, I'm afraid.

Well, in other news, best of luck for the Britons, as these terrorist attacks tend to have lingering effects. Believe us, we've had some firsthand experience with them ourselves.

Also, I cannot safely put a bet on the outcome of WWIII, nor do I know how it will be fought. I can safely say, however, that at this rate, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.

[IMAS]

The American foundation is good (good constitution and ideals). The present government, not so good. It pisses everyone off.