Destiny vs. Strike Freedom

[RGZ_ReGZ]

I assume many people already know Destiny and Strike Freedom's spec. Anyway, if both are piloted by a very similar pilot, in terms of both skill and emotions, which mobile suit do you think will win? (as in, which is the better mobile suit?)

I would say Strike Freedom will win, but mainly due to the DRAGOONs. Destiny, however, have an insane mobility and powerful weapon (that long rifle seems stronger than SF's chest cannon and beam launcher, and that beam saber just takes the cake.)

[antoine]

According to the chairman, he stated Destiny/Legend were better suits than any that preceded it, but we don't know when Strike Freedom was made.

I'm guessing Strike Freedom was created before Destiny and that Destiny is stronger.

[davidsiaw]

yep GO DESTINY! It is your DESTINY to decide strike freedom's DESTINY and to make sure that DESTINY is not something we'd expect from DESTINY coz kira's gotta learn that DESTINY is not in his hands. so go DESTINY gundam.

[ssouske]

yep GO DESTINY! It is your DESTINY to decide strike freedom's DESTINY and to make sure that DESTINY is not something we'd expect from DESTINY coz kira's gotta learn that DESTINY is not in his hands. so go DESTINY gundam.
I don't understand what the hell you're trying to say... :blink
I will not put in the pilot tactics and skill since this is more of the MS vs MS fight... If all the specs are true, i see Strike Freedom nailing Destiny... no contest... beam shields? whatever... The Super DRAGOON system should be enough to make desiny pee in its pants... (lol! :laugh ) add to that the high energy combo beam riffle... and BIGGER rail guns and the bigger and better SUPER LACERTA BEAMSABERS... hahaha!(i do not know why they bother making it more powerful... the lacertas do their job perfectly... :amuse ) and the multi-phase cannon in the lower torso...
and what does destiny have? a plasma cannon and an anti-ship sword in the back a beam riffle and the palm cannon that will make destny look like Dan in SF doing Gadouken! ^^ just kidding... (no hard feelings for the Shinn+Destiny fans out there... ok? :amuse )
Seriously though, i think S-Freedom does have the technical superiority over Destiny... not only that, but S-Freedom seems to outgun Destiny to... but i think destiny can still hold its own against S-Freedom... but maybe it will be more of a loosing battle...

[Mindless]

Who knows? You can't really tell right now since we haven't seen either of them in battle.

If we take Destiny and Strike Freedom with their respective pilots, I'd say Strike Freedom would win. Why?

It has fin funnels. It has two beamrifles that can combine into one bigger gun. It has one new, improved, railgun on each hip. It has this Multi-phase cannon in it's chest that sounds very powerful. And that it's piloted by someone that has developed some form of newtype powers. The sheer adaptability of Strike Freedom would put me in awe if I was faced against it. Sure, Destiny can combine alot of battle types too.

But that's like: His longrange positron cannon, his anti-ship sword and his beamrifle. That's it. Well, of course the palm cannons have to serve some purpose, but I think Destiny matched up against Strike Freedom will not act in Destiny's favour.

[Kiba-kun]

Unfortunately, however much I LOVE Destiny's design, pilot and specs, S-Freedom is stronger, for reasons said above. A shame really.

[defort]

i say lets wait for that battle instead. I don't want to upset both sides....

*whisper*

*go destiny!!!!*

[davidsiaw]

Go Destiny indeed. Strike Freedom is probably stronger. But hey. Remember Providence vs Freedom? I sure hope Shinn develops real fast and becomes Kira II. :P

[zgnoud]

SPOILER --------------------------------------------------------------------

dont real ahead if you dont wanna know whats gonna happen in future episodes
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still here? ok. although it was stated that If both piolets were at equal level, i just wanted to state out that in future episodes Athuran's Infinite justice owned both Destiny and Legend. though im biased, Kira is known to be one up from Athuran when in 'killing' mode.

[staradderdragoon]

s-freedom will win. stats tell all. just reading the specs that mindless put up a while ago when he pitted freedom against wing zero was enough....wasnt there also a comparison betweeen the two suits in the main thread? also, battery powered versus nuke powered.....that puts a huge disadvantage on destiny....but i guess, we'll just have to see.

[kenok]

I'd have to go for destiny too the stats are shown clearly that hes more powerful and it comes out later then Destiny soo.... yea its better

[staradderdragoon]

u mean s-freedom or destiny? how can destiny come out later than destiny? lol

[ssouske]

I'd have to go for destiny too the stats are shown clearly that hes more powerful and it comes out later then Destiny soo.... yea its better
another post that i can't understand... :blink

first of all... Strike Freedom is the suit that will come out later... so the possibility of getting the technical edge/advantage is on S-Freedom's side... next, as what mindless has been shouting out loud in the GSD thread :laugh , Strike Freedom has 8, i repeat 8, Super DRAGOON Funnels which kira can control... and it has the newer spec weapons like the Multi-phase cannon in the torso (i think raider or forbidden also had one...), 2x High Energy Beam Riffles that can be docked together like Buster's, 2x Xiphas3 rail cannons... which are the bigger and better siblings of Freedom's Xiphas rail guns... and kira's favorite weapon, the bigger, better, and more powerful Super Lacerta Beamsabers... in confirmation, these came form MAHQ...
MMI-GAU27D 31mm CIWS x 2, (oh look... the bullets on S-Freedom's CIWS are bigger... arround 9mm smaller than minerva's :P and almost twice Destiny's)
MGX-2235 "Callidus" multi-phase beam cannon x 1,
M02G "Super Lacerta" beam saber x 2,
MMI-M15E "Xiphias 3" rail cannon x 2,
MX2200 beam shield generator x 2,
MA-M21KF high-energy beam rifle x 2,
EQFU-3X Super DRAGOON (Disconnected Rapid Armament Group Overlook Operation Network) mobile weapon wings (MA80V beam assault cannon x 1)

now let us see Destiny's specs...(these specs come from MAHQ)
MMI-GAU26 17.5mm CIWS x 2,
RQM60F "Flash-Edge 2" beam boomerang x 2,
MMI-714 "Arondight" anti-ship sword x 1,
MA-BAR73/S high-energy beam rifle x 1,
M2000GX high-energy long-range beam cannon x 1,
MMI-X340 "Palma Fiocina" palm beam cannon x 2,
shield x 1,
MX2351 "Solidus Fulgor" beam shield generator x 2

Statistics show that Strike Freedom clearly out guns your destiny... and as for the power plant... Strike Freedom gets a new engine... no batteries... either nuke or something new... but for Destiny, rumors say that it will get a battery operated power plant...
Ok... now i have given the stats... and it clearly points in one direction... Strike Freedom is better than Destiny... but... the battle will decide who really will win... no amount of specs can truly show how good someone can go in the battlefield... just as sting said "MS power is not the true measure of strength." And the Orb Murasame Pilots indeed showed him that his statement is completely true :laugh

[Chillin]

kenok meant S-Freedom, I think that was pretty obvious with the way it was worded. Just a little typo on his/her part.

[staradderdragoon]

well. the victor has obviously been decided. what do we do now? lol

[staradderdragoon]

well. the victor has obviously been decided especially with ssouske's ownage post. what do we do now? lol

[dotWizard]

Can someone explain neotype powers to me? Someone mentioned them before, but since it didn't involve Kira, Athrun, and Shinn, I just dismissed it.

I'm guessing it involves the little lightning effect that happens when Mwu sees Kreuze. Kira started doing that too, if I remember correctly.

Strike Freedom sounds like it has everything in terms of armament, which is a shame. When a person gets an overpowered suit like that, you sort of don't want to root for them, because they have a ridiculous advantage.

I do like Destiny's weapons over Strike Freedoms. I'll take an anti-ship sword and beam boomerang over beam saber and DRAGOONs any day. A boomerang that flies around everywhere, nailing enemies is a lot more impressive than hundreds of little lasers firing everywhere, covering the entire screen in cheapness.

Does anyone like the original Freedom more than the Strike Freedom? Strike Freedom seems a lot bigger and the proportions make it out to be very different from the slim, agile Freedom.

My opinion...Destiny is at a disadvantage, but depending on how the DRAGOONs and multiple beams are used, Destiny has a good chance. DRAGOONs have never stopped a really good pilot before, beams might be hazardous, but Destiny holding a giant sword and utilizing the boomerang multiple times in a fight will be more fun to watch. In regarding to which is more powerful statistically, I'll leave that to you guys. I just hope Destiny doesn't have to recharge its battery 2-4 times a fight like Impulse did.

[RGZ_ReGZ]

Not to mention the fact that there's is the IJ's stat... apparently whiel Freedom is "all guns" thanks to dragoon), IJ is all beam saber. Its legs are beam saber, its shield is beam saber, it's wings are beam saber... hell, the only downgraded melee is it no longer have those shoulder beam boomerangs. If IJ and destiny fight in close rang, even Destiny with its wing of light and anti-shuip sword doesn't seem to amount to anything...

[ssouske]

DRAGOONs have never stopped a really good pilot before

Ahem... Neo/Mwu did pin shinn down in ep 2 using the exaas' gunbarrels... rey came in so Neo/Mwu was stopped... Shinn seems to have dificulties in fighting a Dragoon/Gunbarrel MS/MA... and we have not seen shinn fight that type of suit since... Neo/Mwu's Exaas... And as I remember in SEED, Mwu and Dearka's Gundams got extremely damaged because of Providence's DRAGOONs... Mwu and Dearka are definitely good pilots... the problem is, they have the 1st generation gundams...

[dotWizard]

Sorry, I was understating it. I meant excellent pilots like Shinn, Kira, and Athrun, when they're in Seed.

We have yet to see how Kira handles DRAGOONs, but I'd like to think Shinn would be able to hypothetically shut them down when he's in Seed.

Other than Neo/Mwu's Gundam, didn't Sting's Chaos have some type of DRAGOON as well? I remember when Athrun was in a Zaku/Ginn (don't know which) and Athrun was trying to prevent Lunius from dropping, he shot a DRAGOON and threw a blade axe at Chaos/Sting, destroying a DRAGOON which flies in front of it.

Although, Sting doesn't use it in other battles, so maybe I'm mistaken. The DRAGOONs would slow Shinn down, but other than that, they wouldn't turn the battle or anything like that.

[antoine]

Though we've seen them before, I would like to see how Kira uses them with his flowing battling techniques.

[Bleachsuki]

i think strike freedom has the advantage against destiny. Althought i really dont know how destiny works and what it does but what i think strike freedom will win is because. Reason 1- well since s-freedom has Dragoon system is a good thing because i think shinn isnt really good at handeling dragoons. i mean in episode 2 and 3 if when shinn was fighting neo/mmu on exodus agains impulse shinn could of lost. I mean it looked like shinn had a tough time and i think shinn isnt that kind of guy who likes to fight dragoons. on the other hand rey is good against fighting dragoons. But i really wonder if rey didnt come and help who would of won? neo/mmu or shinn?

[dotWizard]

I think Shinn has become a far better pilot in recent episodes. Shield toss + laser reflect? Using nose of core splendor to attack while going back for more parts? Splitting Impulse in two to dodge?

He's a lot different from the novice we saw in the beginning episodes. Since then, he's learned to shoot accurately after Athrun shows everyone on Minerva off. He's become as fast and as much of a sharpshooter as Athrun. That will definitely help against DRAGOONs, and he learned how to shoot like that a little bit after the fight with Neo.

I know he won't be able to use the tricks he used in 34 with Destiny, but he has learned to use what he had in the Impulse well, and I'm expecting that he adapts to Destiny just as well.

[staradderdragoon]

i think strike freedom has the advantage against destiny. Althought i really dont know how destiny works and what it does but what i think strike freedom will win is because. Reason 1- well since s-freedom has Dragoon system is a good thing because i think shinn isnt really good at handeling dragoons. i mean in episode 2 and 3 if when shinn was fighting neo/mmu on exodus agains impulse shinn could of lost. I mean it looked like shinn had a tough time and i think shinn isnt that kind of guy who likes to fight dragoons. on the other hand rey is good against fighting dragoons. But i really wonder if rey didnt come and help who would of won? neo/mmu or shinn?

yeah, but look how much shinn has improved. dotwizard puts a pretty good point. shinnhas improved greatly since episode 2 and 3 and he has in advantage when it comes to tactical data. here's another thing, since zaft created s-freedom, shinn will have every single thing he needs to know about it. kira wont have squat about destiny until he fights it....

[Bleachsuki]

yeah you got a point he gained more experiance over many battles but i think he still lack experiance on fighting dragoons. I mean yeah he fought neo/mmu and he gained some experiance but he still struggle fighting him. Plus that was the only time he fought a dragoon. Sure he became a better piolot but still he doenst have much experiance with dragoons. Maybe after fighting with s-freedom he will get more experiance.

[dotWizard]

My meaning was actually he now has more experience in sharpshooting. Lunamaria gave Athrun her gun, and when Athrun was able to shoot every target in the head very quickly, Shinn began practicing a lot and in one scene, he's able to shoot just as quickly and accurately as Athrun.

Before he learned this trait, he wasn't a very accurate shot. He was decent, but nothing compared to what he is now. DRAGOONs in earlier episodes were difficult for him, because they were small and they moved very quickly. After learning to shoot like Athrun, Shinn becomes a one shot, one kill pilot, like Kira--except Kira is one shot, one disable.

Though it is true he hasn't fought with a person using DRAGOONs since, I think they won't be as much trouble to him as they were when he was an average shooter. It will come down to melee agility and long range strategy.

But then, who knows? Kira might be able to control the DRAGOONs perfectly.

[Aegis]

no matter how much Shinn gets better, isn't Kira supposed to be the "ultimate" coordinator?

[Martes13]

Can anybody tell me why you always are saying that Shitn will get the Destiny?

Shitn -> Legend
Athrun -> Destiny
Kira -> Strike Freedom? Where did you get this name?

It's imposible that Athrun will get the other unit!! Did you see the picture about...
http://img65.echo.cx/img65/1296/test6fu.jpg

It's imposible that Arthun will get the LEGEND!! :P

(we will be able to check it in some hours, hehehe, in chapter 36)


(EDIT: I DON'T WANT TO SEE SHINN WITH THE DESTINY!! DAMN FUC************!)

[Chillin]

That black Gundam is the Destroy, and it's already been...well...destroyed. The Destiny was just handed to Shinn in the latest episode (35). Athrun is going to pilot the Infinite Justice, and Strike Freedom is the official name of Kira's next mobile suit according to many credible and official sources.

[3rdStrike]

In addition to what Chillin is saying...

We know because of the following:

Spoilers from Gunota Headlines, Newtype Magazines etc.
Information from MAHQ - http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x42s.htm - DESTINY is pilot by Shinn Asuka


And the picture you posted... The HUGE gundam behind is called DESTROY Gundam that appeared in ep 31. It is piloted by Stellar.
The gundam on the left is Freedom and the one on the right is Impulse.

If you want the entire idea/story, please feel free to read the Gundam DESTINY thread v.2.0. There is all the info you need.

[Martes13]

That black Gundam is the Destroy, and it's already been...well...destroyed.
Ok.. i see it now. It's different.

The Destiny was just handed to Shinn in the latest episode (35)
We don't know it. They gave this units to THEM, but they didn't assign them.

Athrun is going to pilot the Infinite Justice, and Strike Freedom is the official name of Kira's next mobile suit according to many credible and official sources.
Can you say me some of this sources about the "Infinite Justice"??

I didn't heard nothing about this and I want to know all nowww =).

Thx for the info.

[lunamaria-chan]

Watch the Episode 37 Preview

[3rdStrike]

http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/2f/a8/a260de11a0555ea7804b1d04bfd29a92.jpg

I-Justice, S-Freedom info.

[dotWizard]

Can anybody tell me why you always are saying that Shitn will get the Destiny?

Shitn -> Legend
Athrun -> Destiny
Kira -> Strike Freedom? Where did you get this name?

(EDIT: I DON'T WANT TO SEE SHINN WITH THE DESTINY!! DAMN FUC************!)

Yep, yep.

Athrun runs away in a regular Zaft mobile suit, leaving Legend and Destiny untouched. Shinn pilots Destiny. Rey pilots Legend.

The spoiler I believe makes the most sense is Lacus and the Eternal have been constructing Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice (Or as I like to call inJustice) for the past 2 years, preparing for war, just in case.. It goes along with the entire "keeping Freedom underground so that Kira can use it for future battles if need be" idea.

That's what I think makes the most sense. It explains why Legend and Destiny are battery-based, while Strike Freedom and inJustice have Nuclear Jammer Cancellers or upgrades of the old Nuclear Jammer Cancellers. It also explains why Dullindal didn't just give Athrun and Shinn the more advanced Gundams. He didn't know they existed.

Only Lacus, Andrew, Klyne faction, and Eternal crew know about S-Freedom and inJustice.

So, you can believe whichever theory you want about where S-Freedom and inJustice came from, but the majority of forums believe that Shinn gets Destiny, Rey gets Legend, Kira gets S-Freedom, and Athrun gets inJustice.

As for Athrun not getting either Legend or Destiny, it's pretty much in the bag. The preview for 37 shows Athrun and Mey-rin (Lunamaria's sister) in the same mobile suit. The image corresponding to their being in a cockpit of an MS is a picture of a green Gouf (similar to Heine's).


We have but to wait and see. These coming weeks will be long and painful.

[Martes13]

So, you can believe whichever theory you want about where S-Freedom and inJustice came from, but the majority of forums believe that Shinn gets Destiny, Rey gets Legend, Kira gets S-Freedom, and Athrun gets inJustice.
Yes, it seems.

Now, i'm asking what is the target of each one. Shinn and Rey figths because they are militars when Kira and Athrun will fight for something. Won't they fight because other new Earth enemies? It seems that it's a battle ZAFT vs Archangel

:)

(Do you have any bittorrent for downloading the chapter 36 raw? :))

[lunamaria-chan]

I think that Kira does not know about the S-Freedom. If He knew about it. Then he would have contacted Lacus for S-Freedom To be Sent to him by any CF Member

[davidsiaw]

YAY I just finished my exams. Shinn is gonna rule in destiny! Go Shinn! and to whoever Mr. ShitN is... err I dunno bout you but we've had enough spoilers to think what your'e saying is actually quite funny hahaha.

[ssouske]

Yep, yep.

Athrun runs away in a regular Zaft mobile suit, leaving Legend and Destiny untouched. Shinn pilots Destiny. Rey pilots Legend.

The spoiler I believe makes the most sense is Lacus and the Eternal have been constructing Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice (Or as I like to call inJustice) for the past 2 years, preparing for war, just in case.. It goes along with the entire "keeping Freedom underground so that Kira can use it for future battles if need be" idea.

That's what I think makes the most sense. It explains why Legend and Destiny are battery-based, while Strike Freedom and inJustice have Nuclear Jammer Cancellers or upgrades of the old Nuclear Jammer Cancellers. It also explains why Dullindal didn't just give Athrun and Shinn the more advanced Gundams. He didn't know they existed.

Only Lacus, Andrew, Klyne faction, and Eternal crew know about S-Freedom and inJustice.


So, you can believe whichever theory you want about where S-Freedom and inJustice came from, but the majority of forums believe that Shinn gets Destiny, Rey gets Legend, Kira gets S-Freedom, and Athrun gets inJustice.

As for Athrun not getting either Legend or Destiny, it's pretty much in the bag. The preview for 37 shows Athrun and Mey-rin (Lunamaria's sister) in the same mobile suit. The image corresponding to their being in a cockpit of an MS is a picture of a green Gouf (similar to Heine's).


We have but to wait and see. These coming weeks will be long and painful.

Maybe its not just Lacus... (remember ReHOME participating in the previous war with the 3 ship alliance?) When you think about it, Lacus can't be the only one building these suits... maybe she is getting help from the Junk guild... They are able to get technology from either side (ZAFT or EAF)... so i think they are also leding a hand to lacus to build not only S-F and I-J but also the 3 DOM troopers...

[davidsiaw]

I think Lacus did not build stFreedom and inJustice (lol inJustice, get it? Injustice?, Strike Freedom <and destroy it> :laugh :laugh )

Its not THAT easy to build mobile suits unnoticed. Only whole countries can do that, maintain extreme secrecy for huge projects. Think about it. Its not like its easy (wait, actually almost impossible) to keep a massive mobile suit construction project unnoticed having so many technical experts and raw semi-skilled labour employed to do such a thing. Even for coordinators. Assuming Lacus had been building it on a ship because Siegel Clyne has been replaced by someone else not related to him to govern Aprilius City because of his "past crimes". Lacus cannot go home anymore. And it would be difficult for the new representative of Aprilius City not to notice if Lacus continues to construct even one, whats more to say 2 mobile suits using the scarce and expensive nuclear fuel they are going to use, and the DRAGOONs which were borrowed from Providence AND the plans of the original Freedom and Justice, (since they COULD not have had time to reverse-engineer during the war by themselves. At least not in space and with so few scientists and equipment).

now you might say, well they built Strike Rouge on the Kusanagi. Well, they had all the spare parts to build it, they had the plans of the original strike and they had good repair mechanisms to make a Strike Gundam with a broken leg and head look like new again. so yeah. easy. Not like it was any secret or anything.

So yeah. Lacus could'nt have built it. Okay so coordinators really are smarter people? You cannot. No matter how smart, some things just take raw man power, and cost is another thing. Where does Lacus recover all those funds? I still believe in the stolen gundam idea. Which is really getting sickening and old. Don't coordinators EVER lock their doors?!

[Aegis]

I think Lacus did not build stFreedom and inJustice (lol inJustice, get it? Injustice?, Strike Freedom <and destroy it> :laugh :laugh )

Its not THAT easy to build mobile suits unnoticed. Only whole countries can do that, maintain extreme secrecy for huge projects. Think about it. Its not like its easy (wait, actually almost impossible) to keep a massive mobile suit construction project unnoticed having so many technical experts and raw semi-skilled labour employed to do such a thing. Even for coordinators. Assuming Lacus had been building it on a ship because Siegel Clyne has been replaced by someone else not related to him to govern Aprilius City because of his "past crimes". Lacus cannot go home anymore. And it would be difficult for the new representative of Aprilius City not to notice if Lacus continues to construct even one, whats more to say 2 mobile suits using the scarce and expensive nuclear fuel they are going to use, and the DRAGOONs which were borrowed from Providence AND the plans of the original Freedom and Justice, (since they COULD not have had time to reverse-engineer during the war by themselves. At least not in space and with so few scientists and equipment).

now you might say, well they built Strike Rouge on the Kusanagi. Well, they had all the spare parts to build it, they had the plans of the original strike and they had good repair mechanisms to make a Strike Gundam with a broken leg and head look like new again. so yeah. easy. Not like it was any secret or anything.

So yeah. Lacus could'nt have built it. Okay so coordinators really are smarter people? You cannot. No matter how smart, some things just take raw man power, and cost is another thing. Where does Lacus recover all those funds? I still believe in the stolen gundam idea. Which is really getting sickening and old. Don't coordinators EVER lock their doors?!

Well, that pink Ship was originally created with the orginal Freedom and Justice to house them, so why wouldn't it have spare parts for Freedom and Justice? They would also have the blueprints so all they would need to develop are new weapons (in 2 Gundam years, thats more than enough, since Zaft or EA come up with new mechs every few months) and a new core with improved nuclear reactor. And about manpower, in Gundam Seed, there were bunch of Lacus/Clyne loyalists who helped her and covered up for her when she was being chased. Why wouldn't there be more of those who would be willing to help her? After all she is such a beloved person to all of Zaft (especially to the ones who know the real one).

[dotWizard]

It does take raw manpower and an excessive amount of funds.

Funds, I'm definitely sure Lacus could get. I mean...she built an entire shelter under her house that has multiple levels and a large hangar bay for Freedom. That's not cheap/easy. ...and she, with help of course, did it all without Kira noticing.

Lacus also did fix up Freedom. In Seed, Freedom got pretty messed up, so I imagine they, in the two years available to them, ordered mobile suit parts in bulk as to not attract attention. In buying in bulk from shady sources, they could have acquired enough parts to build S-Freedom and inJustice.

Again, I just think this spoiler is a lot more viable than ZAFT building these units. Why build four when Dullindal is going to give away two? Why build Nuclear Jammer Cancellers when the other two suits are using outdated technology? Who's Dullindal going to give S-Freedom and inJustice to? Rey? :P

Of course, there may be another reason all of this is happening that no one has thought of. I'm just comparing the two spoilers that I've heard about. One is Lacus and a group of her supporters is building them, and the other is ZAFT is building them and Lacus/Andy plan to steal it.

I'd personally rather Lacus built it, because it'd be original at least... If Lacus goes through the entire "new sword" scene with Kira in a ZAFT hangar bay, I'm going to give up on the entire Gundam universe. :notrust

Plus, it'll mean that Lacus/Eternal/Andy are actually DOING something and not just sitting in space planning an Ocean's Eleven "smash and grab" job.

*** Please note I have yet to see Ocean's Twelve, because Brad Pitt pretty much shaved his head, and he looks ugly that way. ***

[Piekage]

It does take raw manpower and an excessive amount of funds.

Funds, I'm definitely sure Lacus could get. I mean...she built an entire shelter under her house that has multiple levels and a large hangar bay for Freedom. That's not cheap/easy. ...and she, with help of course, did it all without Kira noticing.

Lacus also did fix up Freedom. In Seed, Freedom got pretty messed up, so I imagine they, in the two years available to them, ordered mobile suit parts in bulk as to not attract attention. In buying in bulk from shady sources, they could have acquired enough parts to build S-Freedom and inJustice.

Again, I just think this spoiler is a lot more viable than ZAFT building these units. Why build four when Dullindal is going to give away two? Why build Nuclear Jammer Cancellers when the other two suits are using outdated technology? Who's Dullindal going to give S-Freedom and inJustice to? Rey? :P

Of course, there may be another reason all of this is happening that no one has thought of. I'm just comparing the two spoilers that I've heard about. One is Lacus and a group of her supporters is building them, and the other is ZAFT is building them and Lacus/Andy plan to steal it.

I'd personally rather Lacus built it, because it'd be original at least... If Lacus goes through the entire "new sword" scene with Kira in a ZAFT hangar bay, I'm going to give up on the entire Gundam universe. :notrust

Plus, it'll mean that Lacus/Eternal/Andy are actually DOING something and not just sitting in space planning an Ocean's Eleven "smash and grab" job.

*** Please note I have yet to see Ocean's Twelve, because Brad Pitt pretty much shaved his head, and he looks ugly that way. ***

Agreed. Instead of stealing a gundam AGAIN, they could build it. And with most people, I'm going with Strike Freedom, for reasons that have already been posted.

[davidsiaw]

LOL we will see then. What I'm hoping is for something much more original. Its extremely illogical if you come to think of it. Besides, the hangar under the mansion is probably Calgalli's doing, since she has at her command the technology of Orb. Stealing is SUCH an unoriginal thing already. Spare parts? Shady sources? out of the question. They will never do that with all their "virtues". And the reason why Dullandal might build those two completely eludes me. A.K.A. I have absolutely no idea where this story is going. My guess is: he's got 2 more FAITH members who he wants to entrust the suit to, OR, he was planning to give Strike Freedom to Rey and Infinite Justice to another one of his clones. OR... a farfetched one, he wants to offer these suits as a reward for the REAL Lacus to join ZAFT again and help him. OR... Even more far fetched, Orb builds 2nd versions of the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice. OR... Much more far fetched, Chairman Zala had already been developing the newest Strike Freedom to use to finish off his enemies just in case the Genesis failed. But they were either never completed before the war, or Zala died too early.

Its all up to speculation. Then again, Lacus building the 2 mobile suits are the last thing that could happen, which is the wildest guess anyone could make.

[Ganj]

To be honest, this is a really tough decision. I feel that I can't decide from either, who's the superior. :smile-big

On one hand, the Strike Freedom is the ultimate upgrade to the Freedom, which was the strongest MS period. But with the tech specs from the Destiny, it has an assortment of incredible weaponry. Beam shields, which cover both physical and direct-energy assault simultaneously; Palm beam cannons, eliminating the fear of lost projectile arms; a combination of powerful long-range and close/mid-range weaponry (M2000GX high-energy long-range beam cannon & MMI-714 "Arondight" anti-ship sword); and other various armaments. And, although I don't like to admit it, a very compatent pilot.

But on the other hand, as mentioned before, the Strike Freedom is the upgrade-improvement of the Freedom, with an extreme array of weapons all its own. And the revelation of Super DRAGOON weaponry, shapes the Strike Freedom up to be an extreme engine of destruction. That's not including the other weaponry...Also the pilot is Ultimate Coordintor Kira Yamato who, despite his pacifistic combat ways, IS THE MOST talented pilot in the war.

Like I said it's a really tough call...When come down to it, it's all comes down to "Who wants it more?" Kira CAN defeat Shinn, but Shinn is driven. If Kira once again unleashes full force as he has done in the past war, he WILL CRUSH SHINN. But, Shinn's Destiny Gundam IS NOT the Impulse. This mobile suit has new abilities and functions that we can't see yet. And the fact that Shinn could take to it (The Destiny) as Kira took the Freedom, serves to show that Shinn can become enormously more powerful. But like so, Kira could become even more efficient and considerably more powerful as well....I'll just want to see both in action to make my final decision...

[dotWizard]

I'll bet you a camel and two donkeys on that one.

Oh. Shady sources. Meant sources that weren't affiliated with ZAFT/EA.

Great. Every week, I find myself wanting to see an episode two weeks ahead. First it started with... skipping a week to see Athrun punch Shinn. Then, it became skipping two weeks to see Athrun escape. Now, it's four or five episodes ahead to see how they get S-Freedom and inJustice.

My weeks seem to be getting longer and longer... :notrust

[steven]

ok i see alot of ppl raving about this DRAGOON system. now i saw the episode where the chairman was like it has DRAGOON SYSTEM.

but what exaactly is it. an what makes it kick so much ass.?

[ssouske]

I agree with dotwiz's earlier post... there are a ton of shady sources available for lacus and gang... especially that the junker guild backs them up... im thinking that lacus and cagalli made all that multi level base under their house in orb... reliable sources mentioned that freedom and AA were restored with the help of Morgenrate (whatever the spelling of that company is :P )... besides developing new technology in 2 gundam years is very easy... zaft developed the DRAGOONS in less than a year... they also made Freedom and Justice in a few months... so why doubt lacus building S-F and I-J with the help of shady sources?

[3rdStrike]

ok i see alot of ppl raving about this DRAGOON system. now i saw the episode where the chairman was like it has DRAGOON SYSTEM.

but what exaactly is it. an what makes it kick so much ass.?

the DRAGOON system stands for Disconnected Rapid Armament Group Overlook Operation Network

If you watched SEED, Raw's providence holds this same armory too. Put it simple words, it's a bunch of beam cannons that is remotely controlled by the pilot's mind. :laugh

[!-justicer-!]

In any kind of discussion I really hate when people start saying things like
''If this happen I'm going to stop watching'' or something in the lines of it.

Destiny is sure awesome. But Strike Freedom is simply amazing, and the piloting abilities are also superior, but, I guess Destiny is going to have a lot of speed, and I mean A LOT. That's going to be his advantage

[RAGING BONER]

I dont know if its been said in the thread before...but what dully said about Legend and Destiny being stronger than any mobil suit that preceded it was true of ZAFT suits, however Strike freedom and Infinite justice were developed by the Kline faction...renegade Zaft scientists and whatnot...Dulindal doesnt know about them.
edit- oh yeah, and Destiny gundam is nothing more than ALL of Impulse's weaponry and armaments placed onto a single nuke powered suit...while Strike Freedom (god i hate that name) is more of a combo of Freedoms original stuff, with Calamity's type of Fire power and Providence style funnels...though all of it more than likely upgraded.

Legend is a SUPED up Providence that has 2 Dragoon systems and several beam tridents(more to be revealed).

while Infinite Justice is the ultimate Melee suit with Beam sabers everywhere and, from what I here, unparalleled speed.

edit 2- i forgot to mention that Destiny seems to be attuned only to Shinn which means it may have some kinda trump card that allows him to unlock some of destinys power.

[ssouske]

I believe gil said that they fine tuned destiny so that shinn may be able to use it just like impulse... in other words, they made destiny handle and react based on how shinn pilots a mobile suit...

I still do think that Strike Freedom will match, or even better, surpass destiny in every aspect... in speed, firepower, agility, and overall performance... there is still time for the Clyne faction to analyze destiny and legend and incorporate changes to Strike Freedom to make it more powerful against destiny and legend... same thing for Infinite Justice...

[staradderdragoon]

so the clyne faction is building s-freedom and i-justice? i was confused on that. well, knowing how good the clyne faction can obtain info, then ur right. they may modify the two suits to surpass their power

[ssouske]

so the clyne faction is building s-freedom and i-justice? i was confused on that. well, knowing how good the clyne faction can obtain info, then ur right. they may modify the two suits to surpass their power
Actually, i dunno if it is official that the clyne faction indeed made the 2 MS. The 3 DOM units are 100% made by lacus and gang... but some still say that S-Freedom and I-Justice are ZAFT made suits... but i'm sticking to the idea that lacus made those suits with the help of many people...

[Freija]

According to the chairman, he stated Destiny/Legend were better suits than any that preceded it, but we don't know when Strike Freedom was made.

I'm guessing Strike Freedom was created before Destiny and that Destiny is stronger.
i dont think he knows bout S-Freedom and I-Justice, or is it ZAFT developing those 2 also ?

[Mindless]

We do know that the Clyne Faction will build (have built) Strike Freedom and Mugen Justice. I can see no point in Gilbert making them, when he already made Legend and Destiny.

It was confirmed on a scan we had from some magazine a while ago.

And in the latest episode, when Kira said that they should contact Lacus, I somehow got the feeling he knew she had a new gundam for him. :oh

[Freija]

ya and in ep 35 i think you see Lacus with a schedule or something, and in the backround you see some Gundam legs :D

[Chillin]

I really don't think he knows that she has a Gundam for him. I think he just knows that she has the resources in order for him to get another one (or the means to stop ZAFT). I think she's already one step ahead of him though. When he sees Strike Freedom I bet he will be surprised.

[Gipo]

Can't wait til the new freedom surfaces :) I'm really clueless on predictions, I just usually take the anime for what it is, taking one step at a time. Much easier on the old heart ;)

[staradderdragoon]

does she (lacus) tell kira anything that may have tipped him off about a new suit?

[ssouske]

well, from what i remember from ep 25, i saw lacus in the hanggar where they were building the DOM troopers... not the gundams... :amuse

[zuhair]

I hate shinn fighting wif kira..why should they fight lol..but i would say destiny gonna win because i think even this story entitled Gundam Seed DESTINY LIOAAA...destiny wont loose to sum stupid freak like kira lol....even the..DRAGOON or no DRAGOON makes no different it doesnt matter when any of the pilot is in seed mode gotta remember that

[staradderdragoon]

well. spec wise, s-freedom owns all four of the new suits. kira is the ultimate pilot. with that being said, kira and s-freedom are unstoppable...

[Freija]

I hate shinn fighting wif kira..why should they fight lol..but i would say destiny gonna win because i think even this story entitled Gundam Seed DESTINY LIOAAA...destiny wont loose to sum stupid freak like kira lol....even the..DRAGOON or no DRAGOON makes no different it doesnt matter when any of the pilot is in seed mode gotta remember that
... Kira will win in the end cause he is following the "right" path of the serie while Shinn crawls in the darkness playing god, DRAGOON does infact matter, it is better equipment, and Kira is the ultimate coordinator and SEED power simply increases your normal skill, so if Kira aims for the cockpit Shinn wont stand a chances. well maybe in Destiny now, but not when he was in Impulse....
i see Shinn changing side in the end, cause it is called GS Destiny afterall...

[Jikes]

... Kira will win in the end cause he is following the "right" path of the serie while Shinn crawls in the darkness playing god

how the hell is Shinn playing god? but agree with you that S-freedom spec wise will defeat destiny, but trust me never count you chickens before they hatch, there will always be a twist in the end, so Shinn might indeed defeat Kira.

[Jujubie]

plzzzz Destiny, destroy Strike Rouge in front of Strike Freedom's sensors. HAHAA. Isn't this topic about gundam vs gundam not pilot vs pilot? We already have a Kira vs Shinn thread. And spec-wise, we probably don't know every detail about Destiny and Strike Freedom. Destiny's speed might help it against Freedom's dragoons. Not to mention Destiny's rumored emotion-powered capabilities. I still can't believe Freedom traded its good looks for power and weird coloring scheme.

[Freija]

how the hell is Shinn playing god? but agree with you that S-freedom spec wise will defeat destiny, but trust me never count you chickens before they hatch, there will always be a twist in the end, so Shinn might indeed defeat Kira.
Shinn plays god by saying "You're wrong" to Athrun example, he wants to decide who lives and who dies...

[Weavern]

As for the tech specs from what i've gathered S-Freedom should win out over Destiny but there is one small problem in the battle. We assume that Destiny is designed to go for the kill, for all we know Destiny has been properly shielded and defended so that not going for the kill would prove futile against him. I still think that S-Freedom is going to win out but perhaps it wont really be Freedom that beats Destiny but rather Infinite Justice that finally puts the nail in Shin's head.

Is there any evidence that they are REALLY going to be stealing gundams again? I do hope that they are designing them themselves as stealing gundams three seperate times in one series is rather... pathetic? If we get any more thefts they should change it from destiny to grand theft gundam.

[dh19440113]

They will fight, but no one will come out the absolute winner in ep 42. :)

If Shinn switch side latter on, we might never know.

[Freedom rulez]

Strike Freedom will win.."Super Dragoons" X8 >>> Destiny...even the Meteor is useless against the Dragoons. remember the last battle of GS(Providence vs Freedom)..Providence Dragoons trashed the Freedoms Meteor. Kira can attack from multiple directions. beside, S-Freedoms spec wise will defeat Destiny. what does Destiny have? let see..Plam cannon(it can destroy a ship in just a one shot), Wings of Light (it helps to boost up its enegy and it can be also used as a weapon) other weapons are normal ones..as for Strike Freedom..it has 8 super Dragoons >> pretty much everything else. 2 high energy beam rifles which can dock together..chest cannon..others are normal weapons. Destiny is just a second version of Impulse. but, Strike Freedom is several times stronger than Freedom. regarding to the Gillberts theory.

Kira>>>ALL

[BattousaiMS]

Strike Freedom is the stronger suit. Destiny is the strongest suit in ZAFT (under Gil). Strike Freedom is the strongest suit in the 3 ship alliance (under Clyne faction banner).


Besides it's easy to tell which suit is stronger, just think how much each suit is worth for their faction. Destiny is there but ZAFT will have 1000+ other MS out there when battling. Strike Freedom and Infinity Justice will only have at max around 60 to 100 MS to support them so logically they are the strongest suits out there.

S. Freedoms specs outweights any other MS out there, it makes Legend look like regular MS. Inifint Justice is the stronger version of Destiny and probably will be it's rival. It's full specs may not have been all written out yet and with it's current arsenal it already outweights Destiny.

Anything the 3 ship alliance will have will be generally stronger then what ZAFT or EA will have because they have limited numbers.

[Freija]

yes S-Freedom > all.
but i don't like the fact that Kira will use dragoons, i really don't like the fighting scenes with beams comming everywhere at once, i liked the original Freedom better.

[Chillin]

When you think about it though, it compensates for his one weakness nicely. Person dodges one beam to the head but another beam is already coming their way right after the one that is dodged. You have no time to dodge it. Allowing him to disable a person so they can possibly go back home to the wife and kids. Unless he just ditches that idea totally. I don't see how he can't kill somone with that Freedom Mega Launcher (which I just made up referring to the two beam rifles docked together) or the multi-phase cannon.

[ssouske]

When you think about it though, it compensates for his one weakness nicely. Person dodges one beam to the head but another beam is already coming their way right after the one that is dodged. You have no time to dodge it. Allowing him to disable a person so they can possibly go back home to the wife and kids. Unless he just ditches that idea totally. I don't see how he can't kill somone with that Freedom Mega Launcher (which I just made up referring to the two beam rifles docked together) or the multi-phase cannon.
i agree... S-F's DRAGOONs does fill up freedom's only weakpoint... and i think it will be the more used weapon once horodes of zaft suits start attacking S-F... or if shinn or rey start to bug kira... :amuse as i see it, kira will mostlikely use up the DRAGOONS, Rail Cannons, and undocked configuration of the riffles... kira has the mindset of not killing people but just disarming them... :amuse so the more powerful and extremely damaging weapons like the docked riffles and the multi-phase cannons will be reserved for more deserving people... like an insane ray or something like raww.... :amuse

[Chillin]

I wouldn't be surprised if he wore on Destiny's (or Legend's) beam shield generator with those weapons. From the looks of things, the beam shield generators have to be replaced from time to time.

[staradderdragoon]

i wouldnt be surprised. dont the regular sheilds only have a certain amount of resistance to the beams too?

[antoine]

i swear i hate these new beam shields (ooommmggg flashy light blocks things)...love the hold-in-hand ones OLDSCHOOL $$$

[staradderdragoon]

yeah. but they're not as good. the beam thingy's are huge too....

[Kirarox]

S-Freedom. Why? Tons of guns!! Kira can burn that bastard!! BURN DESTINY BURN!! BURN SHINN BURN!! I hate Shinn because of alot of reasons. Kira has more experiance. Shinn went through years to pilot Impulse. Kira took minutes to pilot Strike! SF outguns and outpowers Destiny.

[Kirarox]

YAY I just finished my exams. Shinn is gonna rule in destiny! Go Shinn! and to whoever Mr. ShitN is... err I dunno bout you but we've had enough spoilers to think what your'e saying is actually quite funny hahaha.

Mr ShitN is an insulting name 4 shinn. i like to call shinn shitN XD

[NewtypeS3]

...wow. Another semi-useless topic filled with mindless fanboys expecting their favorite pilot to win in spite of... any sort of logic whatsoever.
Hooray.

Ok, let's look at this...

1)The power sources are even.
The Destiny and the S-Freedom utilize the same power system. This is the same Deuterion-Nuclear system on the Destiny that ran out of power magically in the series (in a scene removed from the official events of the series by the takes-all-precedent-movies), which also means that the S-Freedom can run out of power mid-battle if Kira utilizes too much beam weaponry. It's a miracle it's not happened before, to be frank, considering Kira's entire tactical basis is 'shoot things with beams until they die.'
It's also not helped that the S-Freedom has to worry about recharging DRAGOONs as well.

2) The Destiny is actually faster and more mobile than the S-Freedom most of the time
Ok, we all know how both the Destiny and S-Freedom have some derivative of the Wings of Light, yes? Well, the S-Freedom has the design flaw of having the DRAGOONs covering up the ports of those WoL emitters. Further, unlike the Freedom, the S-Freedom has no Hi-MAT mode. Hi-MAT mode requires thrusters to be on the wing tips, which even Bandai and Sunrise have said simply do not exist on the S-Freedom. This severely limits the mobility of the S-Freedom in the atmosphere, and even limits the mobility of the S-Freedom whenever it has to recharge the DRAGOONs as the Wings of Light will not be usable during that time... including any atmospheric flight, as they can't be ejected.
Oh, and then there's the fact that the Destiny is fast enough to leave afterimages that confuse even Kira, and even flies circles around the S-Freedom during their fight at the Second Battle of Orb... and the fact that the Destiny can whip out those wings at any time... yeah, the Destiny's faster.

3) The Destiny is a better-rounded unit than the S-Freedom.
Yes, the S-Freedom has a lot of guns. We've seen them used. The problem is, any good mobile suit fight is decided in the melee portion of the fight. And Kira's best hope there is... the twin beam sabers that he always latches up into lance mode, heavily limiting his actual range of movement with the weapon.
Shin, on the other hand, has the ASS sword, as well as the palm cannons that can be used to quite high effectiveness when Shin isn't being written by a horrible writer... not to mention the beam boomerangs that also have beam saber forms - giving him an insane level of versatility. Further, Shin isn't screwed over in the long range as he also has the rather large cannon and his own beam rifle.
So, yes, Kira has lots of guns. But he's screwed over in melee range... which is also Shin's specialty. And considering Shin's Destiny is far more maneuverable than the S-Freedom, he's getting into that range.

4) Shin is a better pilot than Kira.
Destiny episode 34.
You can not debate the fight, as it shows Shin winning by being creative.
You cannot whine about it being unfair, as Kira had every advantage on the field.
You cannot claim that Shin sucks, because he beat Kira.

5) Previous evidence states Shin would likely win.
During the second battle of Orb, as mentioned previously, Shin was taken by surprise and lost his three favorite weapons. However, Shin was able to keep Kira on the run simply with the ranged weapons of his unit - and ranged combat isn't even close to Shin's specialty. Had Shin been given his original weapons for the fight, he would have been able to do more than sit back and shoot - he would have gotten in close... and the evidence points to Shin winning there.

So, yeah.
It doesn't matter what you think, or claim, or any petty and/or childish insults you string together to make Shin's name something other than Shin.
Kira would lose badly.

[Sander RX]

Except I think they retconned SF into having Hi-MAT.

[sazabi24]

lets just say this:

both characters and both gundam suck

just Shinn sucks more

[Buster]

4) Shin is a better pilot than Kira.
Destiny episode 34.
You can not debate the fight, as it shows Shin winning by being creative.
You cannot whine about it being unfair, as Kira had every advantage on the field.
You cannot claim that Shin sucks, because he beat Kira.

Yeah.. fighting against someone who isn't fighting back really makes you the better pilot. And last I remembered it was Rey Za Burrel who instructed Shinn how to "defeat" the Destiny.

Anyways, remember when the Destiny encountered the Strike Freedom for the first time. Kira was just playing with Shinn, he could have killed him. Kira was just mocking Shinn. Even the Infinite Justice had no problems with Shinn.

I admit Kira is too imba but that's the reality in Seed Destiny.

[NewtypeS3]

Except I think they retconned SF into having Hi-MAT.
No, they didn't. The S-Freedom's official profile doesn't show any Hi-MAT capability. And it never had the ability in any of it's previous incarnations (the guy's been retconned a good three or four times now, really).

---
Yeah.. fighting against someone who isn't fighting back really makes you the better pilot.
...Kira wasn't fighting back, despite openly shooting at Shin, damaging the Impulse to the point that the Impulse needed to replace parts (requiring Shin to be creative about that as well), and kept shooting at Shin even as he tried to run away because he realized how screwed over he was?
What exactly does your definition of 'fighting' become? Because Kira was fighting to protect the Archangel and then was stupid enough to let himself get drawn away from the Archangel in a fight against the Impulse.

And yes, Kira was shooting at Shin throughout the fight.

Shooting at someone means that he's trying to fight with them.

And last I remembered it was Rey Za Burrel who instructed Shinn how to "defeat" the Destiny.
...Shin had to defeat the Destiny at some point in the series? But seriously...

Actually, Rey simply suggested the blatantly-obvious-to-anyone-who-had-watched-Kira-fight: that he doesn't aim for the cockpit. And even then, Rey was actually wrong with the data he was showing. Rey claims "the Freedom only aims for the weapons or the main camera of a mobile suit," while the data scrolling by shows the Freedom aims for arms, legs and the head of a mobile suit, reguardless of the weapons they may or may not hold.
SHIN was the one who wanted to actually train to defeat the Freedom, much less study his target in the first place. Much less train to beat Kira and then execute the plan successfully.

And like I said in the other silly topic like this, Shin doing this is called 'military strategy' in the real world. Not studying your opponent, not adapting to the situation, is what gets you killed.
Which is what should have happened to Kira, by all rights.

Really, all Rey did was coach Shin at best. And if you think coaching is illegal, then the entire concept of sports is one massive collective of cheating.

Anyways, remember when the Destiny encountered the Strike Freedom for the first time. Kira was just playing with Shinn, he could have killed him.
Kira was unable to deliver a single hit on Shin throughout the battle beyond one shot from the railguns, despite both pilots being in Seed Mode (a state the director himself has stated establishes that the character is 'giving their all'). And this was while Shin was missing the weaponry based around his best skill, melee combat - meaning that Shin is actually a far better pilot than you claim.
Oh, and by the way? That good ol' blast from the railguns that I know you're claiming is proof of Kira 'toying' with Shin? Yeah... that was the only weapon Kira could use. The DRAGOONs can't be used in the atmosphere, his hands were full with blocking a sword, the Destiny was at a completely wrong angle to hit with the belly-cannon (at best, Kira might have nicked the shoulder, which is far from 'the fight being over', and the S-Freedom doesn't have the Freedom's overly-useful Baleena Cannons... meaning it only had the Railguns.

In fact, Shin actually taunts Kira by shouting out "I bet you're thinking 'if that had been a beam, this would be over," aren't you?" as he recovers from the shot.
Even Shin knows that Kira couldn't nail him with anything else.

Kira was just mocking Shinn.
Except he wasn't. Because it was the only weapon Kira had that could hit the Destiny (otherwise, Kira WOULD have used the belly-cannon).

Even the Infinite Justice had no problems with Shinn.
Athrun took on Shin when Shin had just seen the woman he loves turn on him, when all he ever fought to protect was falling apart around him and when he has almost no clue if what he's doing is right or wrong in the first place... and then, on top of all this, the writer Morosawa decided to go ahead and remove what actual skill Shin had in the fight... and Shin's not even in Seed Mode either!

And before you claim this makes Kira better... Athrun's defeated Kira when every single advantage in the fight went to Kira, much like when Shin took out Kira despite Kira having most of the advantages in the entire fight as well.
So, it doesn't prove Kira > Shin. It proves Athrun >= Shin > Kira.

And even then, the opening part of the equation isn't possible to prove as the only fight between Shin and Athrun doesn't even have Shin at his maximum skill.

I admit Kira is too imba but that's the reality in Seed Destiny.
Kira's given the heavenly music and bias from the writer, but it doesn't mean he's anything close to a great pilot. A great computer programmer, perhaps. But that's completely different from a pilot.

[Saiko]

The Results were at the end of the series

Kira > Shinn
Athrun > Shinn
Yzak > Shinn

[NewtypeS3]

The Results were at the end of the series
Kira > Shinn
...supported by absolutely no in-series evidence whatsoever, seeing how their two fights resulted in one win for Shin and a tie.

Athrun > Shinn
...supported by a fight that was unfair by every definition of the word...

Yzak > Shinn
...and supported by absolutely nothing, seeing as how Yzak only showed up in three episodes of Destiny, and only one of them had Yzak on the opposite side... and none of the episodes had them fighting.
Not to mention, Kira and Athrun are shown to be better pilots than Yzak, and Shin is constantly shown to be somewhere around Kira and Athrun no matter how you look at the fights in Destiny.

Hooray for mindless fanboyism!

[3625]

...supported by absolutely no in-series evidence whatsoever, seeing how their two fights resulted in one win for Shin and a tie.


...supported by a fight that was unfair by every definition of the word...


Doesn't Kira beat Shinn (and several others) when they first meet?



...and supported by absolutely nothing, seeing as how Yzak only showed up in three episodes of Destiny, and only one of them had Yzak on the opposite side... and none of the episodes had them fighting.
Not to mention, Kira and Athrun are shown to be better pilots than Yzak, and Shin is constantly shown to be somewhere around Kira and Athrun no matter how you look at the fights in Destiny.

Hooray for mindless fanboyism!

I do think that Yzak showed up for more than three episodes, but the point of this part of your quote is correct. Shinn does appear to be superior to Yzak (although I do wonder how much better Yzak would do if he had a better machine-- his Duel Gundam was the first of the Gundams that was produced, which leads me to believe that it might be inferior to the Strike/Aegis).

[Red Zaku]

Doesn't Kira beat Shinn (and several others) when they first meet?


Kira rushes by Shinn who's not actually fighting. He essentially just hovers in place and gets his arm taken off as Freedom goes by. Not really an accurate test of skill by any means at all. Later on with the Blast Pack, Kira tried to attack the Impulse and with it's least mobile form he dodges a beam saber Strike from Kira. At any rate in the only two engagements they fought one on one Kira has lost, and fought a defensive draw against Shinn. Shinn with Destiny was able to keep Kira on the defensive with just a beam rifle, and the canon all while Shinn wasn't in SEED mode so Shinn looked far more impressive in that draw.

[JujuXChoJu]

4) Shin is a better pilot than Kira.
Destiny episode 34.
You can not debate the fight, as it shows Shin winning by being creative.
You cannot whine about it being unfair, as Kira had every advantage on the field.
You cannot claim that Shin sucks, because he beat Kira.


wait there, shinn is not a better pilot than kira.
Shinn got new parts, so idk how you said "kira had every advantage on the field'? and hows that fair? and don't say he came up with the plan, he didn't.
Don't say shinn would have done that with on his own.
How about kira and shinn both Pilot the same suit, both done studies on each other, who you think it's going to win?

[NewtypeS3]

wait there, shinn is not a better pilot than kira.
Ok, let's hear your reasoning, then.

Shinn got new parts, so idk how you said "kira had every advantage on the field'?
Because Shin had to figure out a way so he could get those parts without them being shot down. Replacing parts could be considered an advantage... if it wasn't for the fact that they're completely vulnerable to being shot down, hit ever-so-slightly (losing parts, thus missing the point of resupplying)... much less if the Impulse is out of range of the ship.
And further, I said 'almost every advantage on the field.' It was Athrun who took down Kira while Kira had every advantage on the field. So, you know, read what you're replying to next time.

and hows that fair?
Because the Impulse was designed around the concept.
Unless you think that Kira was cheating every single time he switched parts on the Strike, got a new battery charge, and then went on to beat down Yzak/Dearka/Nichol/Athrun... to say nothing of the fact that any pack-equipped Strike had two batteries while the others had one. Because that also takes creativity to avoid the parts being taken down, or at least getting back to the AA to switch them.
Or that it was cheating for Yzak to eject the armor of the Duel in order to get in close against the Forbidden in the end of Seed, seeing how the armor was built to eject if need be.

Or that it was cheating for Kira and Athrun to be using NJCs during the end of Seed when fighting against ZAFT and the EA, seeing how their suits were built with an inherent advantage.

Oh, and by the way?
Impulse has a limited power source compared to the Freedom's NJC-system. Which means that it doesn't matter if Shin can replace parts - they don't come with new power sources, unlike good ol' Kira's Strike-Pack Hijinks.

and don't say he came up with the plan, he didn't.
...Shin didn't come up with the plan to dodge things shot from the Freedom, close in and stab it with sharp weapons because the Freedom hates melee combat - and then think of a creative way to replace the parts of the Impulse if need-be on the spot because the Freedom could shoot them down? Because Rey only stated the blatantly-obvious of "Freedom doesn't kill things, except when he wants to", he didn't come up with anything resembling a plan... and even then Shin had to carry the plan out.
You can be the best sports coach of all time, but if you don't have a team that can pull off your plays, the plans are useless... and even then, it's more like a Quarterback coming up with the play after being given some information from the coach on how the enemy team works.

What, are you going to start claiming Shin sucks because he didn't design every facet of the Impusle as well?

Don't say shinn would have done that with on his own.
...Shin replaces parts and weapon packs in episodes 1 through 33 on his own without Rey telling him what to do.
Shin's a skilled enough pilot to fly through a mountain pass, requiring minute adjustments of his controls to avoid crashing. This is revisited with the slight changes to the placement of limbs and head early in the fight.
Shin is shown being insanely creative in his early fights - such as throwing a sword to knock the enemy off balance so he can nail them with the OTHER sword he has.

Shin has skill. Shin is creative. Shin knows the Freedom won't just sit there as he replaces parts.
You'd have to be blind and heavily biased to think Shin wouldn't have come up with that.

How about kira and shinn both Pilot the same suit, both done studies on each other, who you think it's going to win?
Shin.

Once again, Kira never moves in for the kill... unless they're either in a battleship (unless you think all those people are somehow alive...) or in danger of delivering a killing blow and show off more skill than Kira. Kira's skills have stagnated and rusted while he spent time in the Freedom, as he relied on the OS to do most of the fighting for him, while Shin has continually shown levels of creativity only seen before in Aegis-Athrun and Strike-Kira.
Oh, and we all saw Kira's level of skill in the Strike Rouge: levels of poor skill not seen since Katz swiped the Gundam Mk.II back in Zeta Gundam.

Come on. Try asking a question that hasn't been asked in the series. Like if Heero or Amuro would win if both were given their top-mechs and put into an asteroid field. Or if Setsuna or Garrod would win while put into their starter-mechs.
Kira vs Shin has already been proven as a strong victory in Shin's category.

[JujuXChoJu]

Ok, let's hear your reasoning, then.

Because the Impulse was designed around the concept.
Unless you think that Kira was cheating every single time he switched parts on the Strike, got a new battery charge, and then went on to beat down Yzak/Dearka/Nichol/Athrun... to say nothing of the fact that any pack-equipped Strike had two batteries while the others had one. Because that also takes creativity to avoid the parts being taken down, or at least getting back to the AA to switch them.
Or that it was cheating for Yzak to eject the armor of the Duel in order to get in close against the Forbidden in the end of Seed, seeing how the armor was built to eject if need be.

Or that it was cheating for Kira and Athrun to be using NJCs during the end of Seed when fighting against ZAFT and the EA, seeing how their suits were built with an inherent advantage.
well you taking about two gundam vs like god knows how many.
The same can be say for shinn.

Oh, and by the way?
Impulse has a limited power source compared to the Freedom's NJC-system. Which means that it doesn't matter if Shin can replace parts - they don't come with new power sources, unlike good ol' Kira's Strike-Pack Hijinks.

Okay..but did impulse have power during the whole battle????



You can be the best sports coach of all time, but if you don't have a team that can pull off your plays, the plans are useless... and even then, it's more like a Quarterback coming up with the play after being given some information from the coach on how the enemy team works.

What, are you going to start claiming Shin sucks because he didn't design every facet of the Impusle as well?

to me this is pointless debate here, because that is more like a personal opinion. Agreed?


...Shin replaces parts and weapon packs in episodes 1 through 33 on his own without Rey telling him what to do.
Shin's a skilled enough pilot to fly through a mountain pass, requiring minute adjustments of his controls to avoid crashing. This is revisited with the slight changes to the placement of limbs and head early in the fight.
Shin is shown being insanely creative in his early fights - such as throwing a sword to knock the enemy off balance so he can nail them with the OTHER sword he has.

Shin has skill. Shin is creative. Shin knows the Freedom won't just sit there as he replaces parts.
You'd have to be blind and heavily biased to think Shin wouldn't have come up with that.

i didnt say anything about, someone telling him to switch parts
dude, have you forgot Gundam seed? Kira almost single handily protected the arch-angel, unlike shinn who got good supporter cast around him.


Once again, Kira never moves in for the kill... unless they're either in a battleship (unless you think all those people are somehow alive...) or in danger of delivering a killing blow and show off more skill than Kira. Kira's skills have stagnated and rusted while he spent time in the Freedom, as he relied on the OS to do most of the fighting for him, while Shin has continually shown levels of creativity only seen before in Aegis-Athrun and Strike-Kira.
Oh, and we all saw Kira's level of skill in the Strike Rouge: levels of poor skill not seen since Katz swiped the Gundam Mk.II back in Zeta Gundam.

Come on. Try asking a question that hasn't been asked in the series. Like if Heero or Amuro would win if both were given their top-mechs and put into an asteroid field. Or if Setsuna or Garrod would win while put into their starter-mechs.
Kira vs Shin has already been proven as a strong victory in Shin's category.
Dude, so you telling me that it take more skill to kill, than just to destroy the weapon. Put you self in this position, you are against a man with a gun, it's harder to get the gun out of his hand than killing him?

So would shinn win, if kira and shinn have the same gundam?

[NewtypeS3]

well you taking about two gundam vs like god knows how many. The same can be say for shinn.
...because Shin is fighting against someone who has an advantage that the Impulse has no chance of ever attaining and the Impulse only has a double-edged-sword of part replacement... Shin is cheating?
Tell me honestly: do you read your posts before posting?

Okay..but did impulse have power during the whole battle????
Yes, it did.
But that doesn't magically mean we can brush aside the whole 'Freedom has INFINITE POWER' point. It was an advantage for Kira, the fight just never lasted long enough for that one to come into play because Shin was that efficient.

to me this is pointless debate here, because that is more like a personal opinion. Agreed?
...opinions can be horribly, horribly wrong when based off of bias and misinterpreted facts, so sure.

dude, have you forgot Gundam seed? Kira almost single handily protected the arch-angel, unlike shinn who got good supporter cast around him.
Kira? Single-handedly? Let's re-examine that.

---Mu la Flaga.
Always piloting something, be it the Moebius Zero, Skygrasper or Strike. While in the MZero, Mu is a skilled enough pilot to take on at least one of the enemy units at a time, for an extended length of time. He's even so skilled that Mu is capable of rescuing Kira from capture by the Aegis while the Aegis is being escorted by the other three Gundams. While in the Skygrasper, Mu still pulls the same support... while also providing pack-switching support. And in the Strike? Mu wipes out grunts better than Kira.
---Cagali Athha.
While not around nearly as long as Mu, Cagali shows no hesitation to pilot a Skygrasper... which saves the Archangel's butt more than a few times.
---Tolle Koenig.
Another short-lived Skygrasper pilot... who proves vital at one or two points before dying.
---Natarle Badgirule.
Hey, look, it's the woman who orders the gunners where and what to shoot. Because of her, the AA is capable of holding off at least the Blitz on their own - with the Duel often getting sidetracked by the amount of missiles they're shoving at it.

Hmm. It doesn't sound like Kira was doing much of anything single-handedly until he got the Freedom... and even then, he had to rely on Athrun whenever someone with skill and a good mobile suit showed up. Kira had just as much support as Shin did - just in different forms. And it's hard to argue that Kira did more than Shin when Rey proves about as useful as Mu and Luna is in trouble more times than a 'Gundam Team' pilot in ZZ who isn't Judau.

Dude, so you telling me that it take more skill to kill, than just to destroy the weapon. Put you self in this position, you are against a man with a gun, it's harder to get the gun out of his hand than killing him?
...I never said disabling was easier - much less that it didn't take skill to perform. What I've been arguing is that Kira will never reach his full potential if he keeps avoiding the kill shot... and considering he went for those against the Impulse, we can see it doesn't make a difference.
Further, just because Shin or Athrun don't disable doesn't magically make them less skilled than Kira. We've seen both Athrun and Shin take out Kira when Kira had almost all of the advantages in both fights and tried for the kill shot in both fights! This means that Kira, regardless of disabling, just isn't skilled enough to beat either pilot.

So would shinn win, if kira and shinn have the same gundam?
Yes. Shin would win.
Shin has constantly shown more skill than Kira with far less onscreen experience.

[LightMaster]

Yes, it did.
But that doesn't magically mean we can brush aside the whole 'Freedom has INFINITE POWER' point. It was an advantage for Kira, the fight just never lasted long enough for that one to come into play because Shin was that efficient.


The Infinite Power point never actually ever mattered in the scope of the fight, at least not with Shinn... maybe when Shinn had his friends attacking the Arch Angel prior. But just in the time in the fight, the actions of the two in THAT specific time frame; if you'd have given Kira a battery matching Impulses... it would have changed exactly nothing.

Unless someone thinks Impulses battery couldn't have powered Freedom's regular ol' operation.

opinions can be horribly, horribly wrong when based off of bias and misinterpreted facts, so sure.

Just...lulz.

Hmm. It doesn't sound like Kira was doing much of anything single-handedly until he got the Freedom... and even then, he had to rely on Athrun whenever someone with skill and a good mobile suit showed up. Kira had just as much support as Shin did - just in different forms. And it's hard to argue that Kira did more than Shin when Rey proves about as useful as Mu and Luna is in trouble more times than a 'Gundam Team' pilot in ZZ who isn't Judau.

He did stuff single-handedly, usually it was taking out two of the four ZAFT Gundam's on his own. As well as Andy's subordinates, not twice... but three times, the third time taking out Andy afterward. In Freedom he DID manage to stay alive against ALL three druggies for a good time.

...I never said disabling was easier - much less that it didn't take skill to perform. What I've been arguing is that Kira will never reach his full potential if he keeps avoiding the kill shot... and considering he went for those against the Impulse, we can see it doesn't make a difference.
Further, just because Shin or Athrun don't disable doesn't magically make them less skilled than Kira. We've seen both Athrun and Shin take out Kira when Kira had almost all of the advantages in both fights and tried for the kill shot in both fights! This means that Kira, regardless of disabling, just isn't skilled enough to beat either pilot.

What makes them less skilled is the fact that Shinn had to work hard as hell to eek out one against Kira, and Athrun had to throw his Mobile Suit away too. And what are these Advantages you're going on about- Kira sure as hell didn't have any when Athrun blew them both up, certainly not ALL of them, and Shinn had his OWN slew of advantages in the fight where he won.

I don't even remember Kira trying for a kill in Ahtrun's fight, and that's unproven hunky that he went for a kill in the fight against Shinn.

Yes. Shin would win.
Shin has constantly shown more skill than Kira with far less onscreen experience.

Except he hasn't. As no one has ever, in any thread I've ever read... has proven this.

Honestly. You have one fight with Special circumstances and you take it much farther then it actually goes. Right there, in the show, when everything is set to Zero, and Shinn doesn't have time, data to plan... at BEST the two of them are matches.

[Kirarox]

HOLY CRAP MAN! WE ALREADY SAW THE F***ING RESULT!! STRIKE FREEDOM IS BETTER! THIS FORUM MUST BE CLOSED!! STRIKE FREEDOM ALREADY WON!

[Kirarox]

WHY DO PEOPLE STILL POST HERE!?!!:fury: S-FREEDOM WON!COMPARED TO S-FREEDOM, DESTINY IS JUST A SIMPLE BOSS!! S-FREEDOM HAS MORE PERFORMANCE!
DESTINY'S WINGS JUST LOWER IT'S ENERGY OF IT'S NUKE! UNDERSTANDDDDDD??????????????????????????????????? ??

[Kirarox]

NEED I 2 REMIND PPL DAT SHINN DIDNT HAVE A POWERFUL GUNDAM!!?? IMPULSE IS WEAKER THAN STRIKE, ONLY A CHEAP COPY!:ph34r: AND DAT GILBERT"MOTHERFUCKER" DURANDUAL AINT LEARN SF'S EXISTENCE??
KIRA=ATHRUN>SHINN
SF=IJ>DESTINY

lol, mindless fanboyisim rules!