Jiraiya vs Deidara

[Agony]

both are bloodlusted.both are 100%.

restriction.
both has no knowledge of each other.

deidara
has no knowledge of jman.
can use any technique.can only use c4 garuda once.

jman
can go hermit mode but no pa and ma.which means he has all hemit mode powers but without ma n pa's help.can use any technique tat he perform when he's in normal mode.

location
sannin battlefield.

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

C3 to end Jiraya .

[Canute87]

Jman Summons a giant frog and puts and end to deidara.

Jman Wins easily.

[Itachi's Apprentice 3]

Jiraiya would find a way to win. He uses Gamabunta and Toad oil Fire Blast to incinerate Deidara :zaru.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Jiraiya destroys Deidara.

[Agony]

please give reason why deidara gets owned by jman k?

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

please give reason why deidara gets owned by jman k?

Bunta is enough to defeat Deidara, 1 toad oil blast would take him down or he can take him down with the lion's mane jutsu.

[Canute87]

Bunta is enough to defeat Deidara, 1 toad oil blast would take him down or he can take him down with the lion's mane jutsu.

Not to mention his tongue, his water jutsu and kick ass sword.

[Dman]

jiraiya wins with a ton of summons and in hermit mode he kills even with no pa or ma.

[Yamucha]

I love both characters but jiraiya is really too much for dei.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Not to mention his tongue, his water jutsu and kick ass sword.

Oh so true.

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Deidaras Bird speed>> any of Gambntas attacks or other summons , then he nukes Jiraya and his summon BB Jiraya :zaru

[sanji's left eye]

OMG JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!!! i think toad stomache would deend against a suicide blast and C4!! if this is the case jiraiya most likely wins

[clador]

jiraiya win easely

and even if deidara use his suicide bbomb or c4 , jiraiya can hide in one of his frog in a deep water or can -teleport with his frog time jutsu

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

OMG JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!!! i think toad stomache would deend against a suicide blast and C4!! if this is the case jiraiya most likely wins

Toad stomach can only be used inside Buildings Narrow spaces and such , the area is Sannin Battle field he clearly can't do a thing.

[sanji's left eye]

Toad stomach can only be used inside Buildings Narrow spaces and such , the area is Sannin Battle field he clearly can't do a thing.

WTF!!!! damn i thought i had something. wait i know it was filler but i remember when jiraiya used it in broad daylight to defend from some filler attack. maybe it can be used in the open.... idk just a thought

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

WTF!!!! damn i thought i had something. wait i know it was filler but i remember when jiraiya used it in broad daylight to defend from some filler attack. maybe it can be used in the open.... idk just a thought
:zaru

i think if Deidara didn't have his bird Jiraya would rape him badly , other than that he would be victorious in this battle , since the Bird is very fast , any attacks can be avoided and Jiraya has no way to escape C3 or C4 .

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Deidaras Bird speed>> any of Gambntas attacks or other summons , then he nukes Jiraya and his summon BB Jiraya :zaru

Bunta can get Jiraiya close enough to Deidara to use a Katon+oil combo/hair jutsu/Rasengan.

Toad stomach can only be used inside Buildings Narrow spaces and such , the area is Sannin Battle field he clearly can't do a thing.

Toad stomach works anywhere, its just more effective in narrow places.

:zaru

i think if Deidara didn't have his bird Jiraya would rape him badly , other than that he would be victorious in this battle , since the Bird is very fast , any attacks can be avoided and Jiraya has no way to escape C3 or C4 .
Look at Jiraiya's jutsu list again.

[Matto-sama]

jiraiya> deidara. jiraiya wins

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

Bunta can get Jiraiya close enough to Deidara to use a Katon+oil combo/hair jutsu/Rasengan.

haha again with the hair :zaru

Deidara was fast enough to avoid all of Gaaras attacks in the desert , so no Oil is gonna get him .


Toad stomach works anywhere, its just more effective in narrow places.

O Rly when was that said ?

[Complete_Ownage]

haha again with the hair :zaru

Deidara was fast enough to avoid all of Gaaras attacks in the desert , so no Oil is gonna get him .


O Rly when was that said ?

And your proof where it only says it can work in closed spaces?

Jaraiya is to much for deidara to deal with. Ma and Pa not even needed if it was allowed

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

And your proof where it only says it can work in closed spaces?

Jaraiya is to much for deidara to deal with. Ma and Pa not even needed if it was allowed

Because Jiraya didn't use it any other time :zaru

lol yeah sure :zaru

[Skotty]

Jiraiya .

[Noitora]

J-man fucks him up.

[NinnjaHero]

Lol Deidara
ok he is strong but lets put a str lvl
Deidara 7
Ero-Sennin 22
Deidara=he wants to get rapped but Jman is not gay so
he gets only pwned

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

haha again with the hair :zaru

Yes.

Deidara was fast enough to avoid all of Gaaras attacks in the desert , so no Oil is gonna get him .

It will, since he can't keep dodging forever.

O Rly when was that said ?

When was it said its just limited to narrow areas?

[sanji's left eye]

:zaru

i think if Deidara didn't have his bird Jiraya would rape him badly , other than that he would be victorious in this battle , since the Bird is very fast , any attacks can be avoided and Jiraya has no way to escape C3 or C4 .

ok fine ill say it. its a toad stomache that can be summoned. it was never said that it has to be summoned in an enclosed narrow space so he can summon it anywhere. also doesnt jiraiya have frog summons, long range katons, and hair jutsu as well as toad oil? jiraiya can defintiely reack deidara. also C4 is defended against with toad stomache

[Roland]

restriction.
both has no knowledge of each other.


That should be enough to effectivly know who is going to win this battle. And if the answer came up Jiraiya, you would be sorely mistaken.

Deidara's style conflicts Jiraiya's in every way possible. Jiraiya's style of fighting always includes a kuchiyoise no jutsu, and it is always a frog. On a somewhat similar note, Deidara's style invovles taking to the air as fast and as effectivly as possible. on a bird. Note that Jiraiya cannot fly, no matter how his fans wish he could, he is limited to the ground alone.

With that said, Jiraiya makes it to C4 Garuda before being eliminated by Deidara. While Jiraiya is an excellent shinobi, I feel Deidara's style simply outclasses that of Jiraiya's. While Jiraiya is grounded and unable to attack Deidara with the exception of Katon jutsu and Gamabunta, Deidara is able to effectivly attack Jiraiya while observing his style of fight. I doubt Needle Jizou is powerful enough to defend Jiraiya from anything above C2, and that is a iffy at that.

The point is, once Deidara gets in the air, Jiraiya is going to be simply out classed and unable to fight back. With #18, any summon that Jiraiya is going to use will be eliminated quite quickly, along with Jiraiya himself. The only way I see him defending against #18 or C3 is by summoning himself into the Frog stomach, which I don't feel Jiraiya would do because it would be sacrifcing a summon to do so. Jiraiya's only hope to win this fight would be to go into HM, but without Ma and Pa toads, it simply isn't enough.

In HM, without Pa and Ma, the only effective jutsu Jiraiya gains would be Hermit's Art: Hair Needle Barrage and Chou Oodama Rasengan, both of which I feel won't be effective against Jiraiya. Wild Lion's Mane would be Jiraiya's best bet, but the question is, can Jiraiya get close enough to Deidara to effectivly use it? And if he catches Deidara, what happens than? It is more than likely, if Jiraiya were to use Wild Lion's Mane, that he would catch Deidara's bird or C2 dragon instead of Deidara himself, thus basically attaching an explosive to himself and ending the match.

Deidara's dodging and evading agility was elite, one of the best in the entire manga. Not only was he able to stop every single blitz that was attempted against him, he was able to dodge it and take to the air at the same time. That feat alone eliminates any chances of Jiraiya blitzing Deidara, since Sasuke could hardly do it himself. Furthemore, if Deidara resorts to C4 Garuda, which I believe he will have to if Jiriaya is going all out, Jiraiya willl have no way of knowing what is going on let alone that the bombs that C4 lets out are tiny, mircoscopic bombs that only a sharingan, byakugan, or possibly a rinnegan user could see.

A hard fought battle, with Deidara coming on top in the end. Perhaps if Jiraiya was able to make use of the actual abilities of HM, since stripping Ma and Pa toads away, Jiraiya would win or force a tie by Deidara. With the Frog Song Genjutsu, Jiraiya literally truimps every jutsu that Deidara has, but sadly he doesn't have it in this fight. Furthermore, most of Jiraiya's ranged attacks in HM were from Pa and Ma toads and taking them away literally leaves him helpless against Deidara's style of fighting, which should overwhelm Jiraiya, given the circumstances.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

This is how I see the fight going assuming Deidara starts in his clay bird.

First Jiraiya would use Kuchiyose to (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000169/17.jpg) summon Gamabunta (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/03.jpg).

Then Deidara would make clay sparrows (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000248/11.jpg) and send them to attack.

Then Jiraiya and Gamabunta will react by using the toad (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/12.jpg) oil fireball (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg) which should destroy the sparrows and take out the clay bird's legs.

Then Deidara will realize that sending birds against Jiraiya will be useless so he'll ditch the bird and create the C2 dragon (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000357/16-17.jpg) then he'll get on that.

Jiraiya would react by going into HM(won't be long since he isn't summoning Ma and Pa), then after that he'll tell Gamabunta to get close to that C2 dragon then C2 dragon will be in mid air and and use the C2 dragon missile (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000358/11.jpg) then Jiraiya will counter that by using the the toad (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/12.jpg) oil fireball (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg) then Bunta will jump and then Jiraiya would make his feet toad like.

Then Deidara would use the C2 missile again (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000358/11.jpg) but then will just throw his dagger(at the same time Jiraiya would have jumped off Bunta) to make the bomb explode near Deidara, then he'll shoot oil to make Deidara go further into the air where Jiraiya will end it with Ultimate Rasengan. (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/13.jpg)

Thats how Jiraiya wins.

[Jackal]

Cant deidara do that thing where he fills the air with micro explosives?

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Cant deidara do that thing where he fills the air with micro explosives?

You mean C4?

[Roland]

First Jiraiya would use Kuchiyose to summon Gamabunta.


The second Gamabunta comes out, which is were your theory falls apart, one of two things would happen.

1- Deidara would notice the intense threat of a Boss summon and resort to much more powerful means, such as C3 or #18. which Gamabunta has no way of surviving.
2- Gamabunta is a very arrogant frog. He wasn't even going to fight against Shukaku for Naruto thinking it was a waste of his time. I doubt he would attack a singular shinobi such as Deidara or Jiraiya would have used him against Pein. The fact is, Gamabunta would think it a waste of time and unsummon himself. Unless summons are bloodlusted, then option 1 becomes valid.

Other than that, there is no knowledge of each other. Why would Jiraiya instanly summon his strongest frog against an opponent he knows nothing about? The only time Jiraiya fought with Gamabunta was against Orochimaru and Manda, who he had full knowledge of and knew Gamabunta would help him. Your theory strays off from that point onward.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

The second Gamabunta comes out, which is were your theory falls apart, one of two things would happen.

1- Deidara would notice the intense threat of a Boss summon and resort to much more powerful means, such as C3 or #18. which Gamabunta has no way of surviving.
2- Gamabunta is a very arrogant frog. He wasn't even going to fight against Shukaku for Naruto thinking it was a waste of his time. I doubt he would attack a singular shinobi such as Deidara or Jiraiya would have used him against Pein. The fact is, Gamabunta would think it a waste of time and unsummon himself. Unless summons are bloodlusted, then option 1 becomes valid.

Bunta seems to listen to Jiraiya.

Other than that, there is no knowledge of each other. Why would Jiraiya instanly summon his strongest frog against an opponent he knows nothing about? The only time Jiraiya fought with Gamabunta was against Orochimaru and Manda, who he had full knowledge of and knew Gamabunta would help him. Your theory strays off from that point onward.

He has no jutsu to catch Deidara with these restrictions thus he has no choice but to summon Bunta.

[materpillar]

This is how I see the fight going assuming Deidara starts in his clay bird.

First Jiraiya would use Kuchiyose to (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000169/17.jpg) summon Gamabunta (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/03.jpg).

Then Deidara would make clay sparrows (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000248/11.jpg) and send them to attack.

Then Jiraiya and Gamabunta will react by using the toad (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/12.jpg) oil fireball (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg) which should destroy the sparrows and take out the clay bird's legs.

Then Deidara will realize that sending birds against Jiraiya will be useless so he'll ditch the bird and create the C2 dragon (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000357/16-17.jpg) then he'll get on that.

Jiraiya would react by going into HM(won't be long since he isn't summoning Ma and Pa), then after that he'll tell Gamabunta to get close to that C2 dragon then C2 dragon will be in mid air and and use the C2 dragon missile (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000358/11.jpg) then Jiraiya will counter that by using the the toad (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/12.jpg) oil fireball (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg) then Bunta will jump and then Jiraiya would make his feet toad like.

Then Deidara would use the C2 missile again (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000358/11.jpg) but then will just throw his dagger(at the same time Jiraiya would have jumped off Bunta) to make the bomb explode near Deidara, then he'll shoot oil to make Deidara go further into the air where Jiraiya will end it with Ultimate Rasengan. (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/13.jpg)

Thats how Jiraiya wins.
Yeah, except IC Jiraiya doesn't start battles out with gama. So deidara should be safely in the air by the time he does come out. Also said giant frog is well, giant (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume15.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=38679). It obviously will take more than C2 to kill and thus deidara will drop something really fucking big on it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/)
Besides Deidara has experience with giant terrible beasties (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/01/)

J-man without gama would use Ma and Pa's tongue, hydro pump, or frog song to take deidara out, but those are all banned. He really has very little else that can get to deidara.


He has no jutsu to catch Deidara with these restrictions thus he has no choice but to summon Bunta.
Yeah, its going to take at least a few seconds to figure that out. The resulting giant summon should leave either a blatant opening for a C2 direct hit, or time for deidara to safely get to another height. Gama isn't summoned with instant knowledge of the situation, and j-man has to tell him what is going on. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/03/)

[Roland]

Bunta seems to listen to Jiraiya.

Seems to listen? I remember a panel where Jiraiya stated he had trouble getting Bunta to listen. I'll try and find it, if I can, but I am entirly sure that it was stated somewhere.


He has no jutsu to catch Deidara with these restrictions thus he has no choice but to summon Bunta.

My point, how would he know he has no chance to catch Deidara with no knowledge of Deidara? He wouldn't. Bunta isn't coming out that early in the fight. By the time he does, Deidara will have already beaten Jiraiya or be ready to use #18 or C4, which neither Bunta nor Jiraiya would survive.

The whole fact is, Jiraiya cannot win this fight without HM. And though he does have it in this fight, he is stripped of Ma and Pa, which are very strong assets to Jiraiya in HM. Without them, he loses an array of jutsu that would tip the tide in his favor greatly, and lead him to winning this battle. Without those jutsu, any scenario you come up with is literally out of knowing Deidara's abilities in full, which Jiraiya doesn't in this case.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Yeah, except IC Jiraiya doesn't start battles out with gama. So deidara should be safely in the air by the time he does come out. Also said giant frog is well, giant (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume15.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=38679). It obviously will take more than C2 to kill and thus deidara will drop something really fucking big on it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/)
Besides Deidara has experience with giant terrible beasties (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/317/01/)

J-man without gama would use Ma and Pa's tongue, hydro pump, or frog song to take deidara out, but those are all banned. He really has very little else that can get to deidara.

Like I said before here he has no choice but to summon Gamabunta since Ma and Pa are banned.

Maybe he could spam Hermit Art: Needle Hair barrage (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/16.jpg) and use the protection (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000381/02.jpg) barrier (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000381/03.jpg) each time he sees a big ass bomb:hmm?

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Seems to listen? I remember a panel where Jiraiya stated he had trouble getting Bunta to listen. I'll try and find it, if I can, but I am entirly sure that it was stated somewhere.

In the Sannin fight Bunta listened to him.

My point, how would he know he has no chance to catch Deidara with no knowledge of Deidara? He wouldn't. Bunta isn't coming out that early in the fight. By the time he does, Deidara will have already beaten Jiraiya or be ready to use #18 or C4, which neither Bunta nor Jiraiya would survive.

The whole fact is, Jiraiya cannot win this fight without HM. And though he does have it in this fight, he is stripped of Ma and Pa, which are very strong assets to Jiraiya in HM. Without them, he loses an array of jutsu that would tip the tide in his favor greatly, and lead him to winning this battle. Without those jutsu, any scenario you come up with is literally out of knowing Deidara's abilities in full, which Jiraiya doesn't in this case.

Jiraiya has other jutsu like the lion's mane jutsu, needle barrage and protection and detection barriers.

[Roland]

Like I said before here he has no choice but to summon Gamabunta since Ma and Pa are banned.

Maybe he could spam Hermit Art: Needle Hair barrage (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/16.jpg) and use the protection (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000381/02.jpg) barrier (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000381/03.jpg) each time he sees a big ass bomb:hmm?

Spamming Hermit's Art: Needle Hair Barrage would do little good against Deidara, since he is at such a distance and will have time to evade such an attack from the height he will be at.

The protection barrier is iffy, since it seems like the dead Pein has his legs burnt off instead of his body cut in half. Furthermore, Jiraiya is seen to be in the middle of swamp like jutsu, with thorned vines poking out of the swamp. Perhaps the protection barrier is a simply swamp that protects him from close range attacks. Perhaps not? We won't know, since it was never fully explained and should be left out of the conversation entirly. I could argue the fact that the bombs would still go through, as well, since Pein's body still seemed to make it through in tact.

Also, why would Jiraiya instanly use HM? He wouldn't. Simple as that.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Spamming Hermit's Art: Needle Hair Barrage would do little good against Deidara, since he is at such a distance and will have time to evade such an attack from the height he will be at.

The protection barrier is iffy, since it seems like the dead Pein has his legs burnt off instead of his body cut in half. Furthermore, Jiraiya is seen to be in the middle of swamp like jutsu, with thorned vines poking out of the swamp. Perhaps the protection barrier is a simply swamp that protects him from close range attacks. Perhaps not? We won't know, since it was never fully explained and should be left out of the conversation entirly. I could argue the fact that the bombs would still go through, as well, since Pein's body still seemed to make it through in tact.

Also, why would Jiraiya instanly use HM? He wouldn't. Simple as that.

Considering his opponent is a long ranged fighter he needs some jutsu from it to catch him, or he'll need a summon.

[Roland]

Considering his opponent is a long ranged fighter he needs some jutsu from it to catch him, or he'll need a summon.

:facepalm

It doesn't matter. There's no point arguing this. Deidara can deal with whatever you've come up with, Bunta or HM. I'd provided you ways. You've ignored them.

[Hiruzen]

Deidara is not at Jiraiya's level. Summons + toad oil + katon finish Deidara.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

:facepalm

It doesn't matter. There's no point arguing this. Deidara can deal with whatever you've come up with, Bunta or HM. I'd provided you ways. You've ignored them.

I did say how I think the fight would go.

Hell we can't debate this properly since the OP hasn't given a starting distance so obviously we'll keep disagreeing with each other.

[Roland]

I did say how I think the fight would go.

Hell we can't debate this properly since the OP hasn't given a starting distance so obviously we'll keep disagreeing with each other.

A starting distance wouldn't change the outcome unless Jiraiya started out literally feet from Deidara. Any other cases and the same scenario would play out with Deidara using C4 Garuda to finish off Jiraiya. I just don't feel Jiraiya would know it was coming nor have a defense agianst it. That and #18.

[Hal07]

Is this even a real question? Jiraiya lost to Pain. Dedaira lost to Sasuke.
Jiraiya wins. Easily.:nod

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

A starting distance wouldn't change the outcome unless Jiraiya started out literally feet from Deidara. Any other cases and the same scenario would play out with Deidara using C4 Garuda to finish off Jiraiya. I just don't feel Jiraiya would know it was coming nor have a defense agianst it. That and #18.

It actually would, in my post I assumed they were reasonably far from each other.

[materpillar]

Is this even a real question? Jiraiya lost to Pain. Dedaira lost to Sasuke.
Jiraiya wins. Easily.:nod
What kind of explanation is that?
A<B and C<D thus C<A?:huh
It actually would, in my post I assumed they were reasonably far from each other.
I also fail to see how the distance makes much difference. At any distance deidara is probably getting off the ground.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

I also fail to see how the distance makes much difference. At any distance deidara is probably getting off the ground.

More time to do jutsu like summoning.

[materpillar]

More time to do jutsu like summoning.
Summoning will take the same amount of time no matter how far apart they are. I guess if they're way far apart deidara might have to fly forward some...

[Roland]

It actually would, in my post I assumed they were reasonably far from each other.

Are you saying that Jiraiya would actually be able to blitz Deidara? Blitz Deidara....:LOS

Deidara...The guy who, with no arms, evaded Team Gai, with Neji, Lee, Ten-ten, and Gai all spamming attacks?

Deidara...The guy who dodged Sasuke and his chidori varients before getting into the air?

That Deidara?

No way. No way in hell is Jiraiya blitzing someone Gai and Sasuke were unable to blitz. Unless by some grace of PNJ, which doesn't exsist in the battledome, Deidara is getting in the air. :blinditachi

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Are you saying that Jiraiya would actually be able to blitz Deidara? Blitz Deidara....:LOS

Deidara...The guy who, with no arms, evaded Team Gai, with Neji, Lee, Ten-ten, and Gai all spamming attacks?

Deidara...The guy who dodged Sasuke and his chidori varients before getting into the air?

That Deidara?

No way. No way in hell is Jiraiya blitzing someone Gai and Sasuke were unable to blitz. Unless by some grace of PNJ, which doesn't exsist in the battledome, Deidara is getting in the air. :blinditachi

When did I mention blitzing?

[BIGASIA]

jiraiya >>>>>>> deidara

[Gspot]

Are you saying that Jiraiya would actually be able to blitz Deidara? Blitz Deidara....

Base Jiraiya definitely wouldn't be able to speedblitz Deidara, but he could probably cleverly use something like Gamaguchi Shibari or Ranji Shigami to gain an initial advantage... however, HM Jiraiya would certainly blitz the shit out of Deidara, and I think it would only take taijutsu. The few HM jutsu he's shown us without Pa & Ma, which are Chou Oodama Rasengan and Kebari Senbon, were not dodged because they were too fast (as well as freakishly powerful)... Pein had to engage them directly with cheap/amazing defenses (absorbing Chou Oodama Rasengan, Panda-blocking Kebari Senbon). The speed feats that HM Jiraiya has shown, such as speedblitz-kickblinding Fuuma Pein or activating and using Chou Oodama Rasengan in one panel from a loong distance, make me feel confident that HM would dominate Deidara with just taijutsu. Maaybe it would take his more powerful jutsu & strategy. But however people spin it... I can't see Deidara competing at all with HM Jiraiya.

Deidara...The guy who, with no arms, evaded Team Gai, with Neji, Lee, Ten-ten, and Gai all spamming attacks?

The fact that Ten-ten was involved should tell you enough about that situation. None of the mentioned ninja are near the level of Jiraiya (or Deidara) anyway.

Deidara...The guy who dodged Sasuke and his chidori varients before getting into the air?

Using Tobi basically as a shield and with significant luck blowing himself away with C1 (as he said himself).

Even with the limit, Jiraiya would beat Deidara. His overall resourcefulness and experience is too much for Deidara to handle, even without HM. If he gets into HM (even without Pa & Ma), Jiraiya will absolutely obliterate Deidara.

I think the relationship is like this. If Deidara bumped into Jiraiya on a mission, unless there was some intense reason not to (e.g. I hate toads), Deidara would flee from the Legendary Gama Sennin like all Akatsuki except Pein and Madara should.

[Vagrant Tom]

Deidara is not at Jiraiya's level. Summons + toad oil + katon finish Deidara.

Is this even a real question? Jiraiya lost to Pain. Dedaira lost to Sasuke.
Jiraiya wins. Easily.:nod

jiraiya >>>>>>> deidara

We don't use A>B>C logic here. Why? Because it doesn't work.

Example. Yamato took out KN4 who was fighting on par with Orochimaru who was said to be stronger than Jiraiya.

So Yamato > Jiraiya?

No.

You see, we have to consider match ups and how the two characters would fight. In this example, although Jiraiya is probably the better shinobi, Deidera's flight gives him a major edge. Jiraiya would need to use a major summon like Gamambunta get Deidera. However, Deidera has huge explosives sich as #18 capable of killing Jiraiya and Gamabunta. Thus, Jiraiya is at a major disadvantage.

[Suu]

Although it is true that IC Jiraiya does not summon Gamabunta off the bat, if he sees his opponent fly straight up, it's only going to take a moment for him to realise he'll almost need to summon either Gamabunta or Gamaken to fight this 'unknown opponent who flies'.

In base form, and while on the ground, Jiraiya isn't going to be able to catch a flying Deidara with any of his jutsu. Upon Gamabunta or Gamaken's back - both of which are capable of jumping very, very high (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/13/) - Jiraiya should be able to reach Deidara before he can fly up any further. Not to mention summoning Gamabunta opens up several potent ranged attacks - including the near-unavoidable Gamayu Endan (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg).

Despite this, I'm still on the fence about this battle, since there are good points to make for both ninja.

[Vagrant Tom]

I believe the second Gamabunta comes out is the second C3 #18 comes out to destroy him.

[-= Ziggy Stardust =-]

I hardly think any of Jiraya's Techniques >>> Gaaras Sand in his hometown , which Deidara managed to dodge almost perfectly .

The Bunta Jump can be evaded and Bunta won't stay up in the air for a long time , when he goes Down a C3 or a C4 would end both his life and Jirayas .

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

I hardly think any of Jiraya's Techniques >>> Gaaras Sand in his hometown , which Deidara managed to dodge almost perfectly .

Which is why Deidara decided to attack Suna to gain the advantage against Gaara?

[-Maya-]

Deidara C4 wouldn't work against Jiraiya he is the 1 ninja without a bloodline that can defend himself from that Jutsu with his sensor/Radar Barrier Once he knows about them he can destroy them with a Huge Blast of Katon


Deidara uses #18 Jiraiya Jiraiya puts up his barrier or uses the Frog travelling that he used to get to Rain so quickly to get the hell outta or Uses Swamp of the Underworld on the Battlefield so that when 18 hitsa it sinks deep down negating a part of the blast

[Naruto]

Poor, poor Deidara :(

Jiraiya doesn't need a frog, or hermit mode. Oil+katon would do it.

[materpillar]

however, HM Jiraiya would certainly blitz the shit out of Deidara, and I think it would only take taijutsu. The few HM jutsu he's shown us without Pa & Ma, which are Chou Oodama Rasengan and Kebari Senbon, were not dodged because they were too fast (as well as freakishly powerful)...HM didn't really have any special speed feets. He caught the worthless pein body off guard when it was in mid jump. (bottom left, that isn't j-mans foot) (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/06/)

Pein had to engage them directly with cheap/amazing defenses (absorbing Chou Oodama Rasengan, Panda-blocking Kebari Senbon).Absorbing pein didn't even bother moving when oodama rasengen jumped at him, he just stood and absorbed it. Couldn't deidara just block the senbon with his bird? The speed feats that HM Jiraiya has shown, such as speedblitz-kickblinding Fuuma Pein or activating and using Chou Oodama Rasengan in one panel from a loong distance, make me feel confident that HM would dominate Deidara with just taijutsu. Maaybe it would take his more powerful jutsu & strategy. But however people spin it... I can't see Deidara competing at all with HM Jiraiya. Deidara got out away from sasuke's shushin rather easily. Do you honestly think that HM is significantly faster than sasuke. Because you have to be significantly faster to wtf speedblitz deidara.



The fact that Ten-ten was involved should tell you enough about that situation. None of the mentioned ninja are near the level of Jiraiya (or Deidara) anyway....so ten-ten just emits an aura of fail so strong that all other ninjas around her can't do basic addition?
Apparently deidara can evade 3 ninjas who specialize in taijutsu, after a long fight, and with no arms, but not j-man. Bull shit.:notrust


Using Tobi basically as a shield and with significant luck blowing himself away with C1 (as he said himself).
Sasuke mid-sprint about 5-7 feet from deidara (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/08/)
Deidara's jump hax (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/09/)
No fucking way j-man (even in HM) is going to wtfblitz him.


Even with the limit, Jiraiya would beat Deidara. His overall resourcefulness and experience is too much for Deidara to handle, even without HM. If he gets into HM (even without Pa & Ma), Jiraiya will absolutely obliterate Deidara. Experience is really helpful, I mean kakuzu had over 100 years of it! HM won't do anything to help jiraiya without ma & pa. It makes it so jiraiya can what, jump higher and use oodama? Wooo, so deidara just has to fly a bit higher than usual. The only reason j-man has any chance is gamabunta.

I think the relationship is like this. If Deidara bumped into Jiraiya on a mission, unless there was some intense reason not to (e.g. I hate toads), Deidara would flee from the Legendary Gama Sennin like all Akatsuki except Pein and Madara should....are you serious? Deidara's life dreams were to kill oro and itachi. Both of who are on jiraiya's level, if not higher.

The only chance jiraiya has are Ma and pa (banned) and gamabunta. The secondary will result in a city destroying c3. Which jiraiya has little chance of surviving.

[-Maya-]

Please Don't rely on Anime Filler to claim Deidara Can't be speed Blitzed


As for speed Feat for HM going from high ground to right in front of Pein and creating a huge Rasengan in the process before his sandal hit the ground How can that not be a Speed feat

[Kai]

Bunta is enough to defeat Deidara,
Considering members in Akatsuki are sent out to take down more powerful beasts than Bunta, that'd be incredibly doubtful.

[TasteTheDifference]

Please Don't rely on Anime Filler to claim Deidara Can't be speed Blitzed


As for speed Feat for HM going from high ground to right in front of Pein and creating a huge Rasengan in the process before his sandal hit the ground How can that not be a Speed feat

Jiraiya would first have to go into Hermit Mode in order to so, which takes at least some time. Time enough for Deidara to make a bird and make both his speed and Rasengan irrelevent.

[Truepotential]

Lol @ this Jiraiya hype, Deidara wins with either C3 or C4.

lol @ Jiraiya going to Sennin Modo instantly without trouble.

lol @ frog serenade working when it took like half the chapter to have its affects.

Deidara solo'd the Kazekage without any bloodlust, he's definitely on this level.

Deidara's C3 or C4 is the best counter to summons, he wins this.

[Complete_Ownage]

Lol @ this Jiraiya hype, Deidara wins with either C3 or C4.

lol @ Jiraiya going to Sennin Modo instantly without trouble.

lol @ frog serenade working when it took like half the chapter to have its affects.

Deidara solo'd the Kazekage without any bloodlust, he's definitely on this level.

Deidara's C3 or C4 is the best counter to summons, he wins this.


1) There is no Jaraiya hype in this fight.
2) Forget those people. HM does take some time to take place but not nearly as long as some think
3) Not even gonna comment
4) The kazekage was also trying to protect a village. TOTALLY different...fail
5) Jaraiya easily has ways to defend against both C3 and C4

but.....without knowledge only thing that could give diedra any hope of even killing Jaraiya would be C4. Thats if he even makes it that far

[-Maya-]

Jiraiya would first have to go into Hermit Mode in order to so, which takes at least some time. Time enough for Deidara to make a bird and make both his speed and Rasengan irrelevent.

Indeed he would but i was not saying he could speedblitz Deidara from the onset i merely stated a Feat that Jiraiya performed during the Pein fight


Lol @ this Jiraiya hype, Deidara wins with either C3 or C4.

lol @ Jiraiya going to Sennin Modo instantly without trouble.

lol @ frog serenade working when it took like half the chapter to have its affects.

Deidara solo'd the Kazekage without any bloodlust, he's definitely on this level.

Deidara's C3 or C4 is the best counter to summons, he wins this.


First Jiraiya would not have the frog serenade in this fight

Jiraiya could protect himself from C4 by using his sensor barrier and either running or creating a Firestorm to destroy the nano bombs either way he survives

As for Jiraiya not having the time entering HM he summons Gammaken who protects him or he enters the Time/space frog and transforms there

Deidara's Bombs the perfect counter to Defeating summons you base this off what?

Failure to kill Sasuke low level Snake or Failure to blow apart Sasuke himself you think that they can destroy Ken?

[Truepotential]

Indeed he would but i was not saying he could speedblitz Deidara from the onset i merely stated a Feat that Jiraiya performed during the Pein fight





First Jiraiya would not have the frog serenade in this fight

Jiraiya could protect himself from C4 by using his sensor barrier and either running or creating a Firestorm to destroy the nano bombs either way he survives

As for Jiraiya not having the time entering HM he summons Gammaken who protects him or he enters the Time/space frog and transforms there

Deidara's Bombs the perfect counter to Defeating summons you base this off what?

Failure to kill Sasuke low level Snake or Failure to blow apart Sasuke himself you think that they can destroy Ken?


Look at the size of C3.

How is exactly is Jiraiya going to use Detection barrier, if he has no knowledge of C4?

Jiraiya's known Katons without summons are in Sennin Modo, he won't have time for that.

lol Gamaken, Lol. C3 >.

[Nodonn]

How is exactly is Jiraiya going to use Detection barrier, if he has no knowledge of C4?

There's this travestite who has only used explosives in the entire fight screaming about his final move.
His final move poofs.

I'd suspect something.

[-Maya-]

Look at the size of C3.

How is exactly is Jiraiya going to use Detection barrier, if he has no knowledge of C4?

Jiraiya's known Katons without summons are in Sennin Modo, he won't have time for that.

lol Gamaken, Lol. C3 >.


C4 starts off as a Giant Deidara that suddenly dissapears And Jiraiya won't have the sense to put up a barrier?

Hell by that point the barrier would most likely already be up

He did 1 katon before he entered HM and may i remind you he used a Katon back during the Sannin fight so saying he can only use those Katons in HM are crap they are probably more power full when he is in HM but he still can use them outside HM

As for C3 If Gaara's sand was able to stop C3 Ken's Metal shield should protect Jiraiya

Or he could Blast it right out of the Sky with a Katon

Or Use the frog travelling Jutsu to escape the immediate area

[Truepotential]

C4 starts off as a Giant Deidara that suddenly dissapears And Jiraiya won't have the sense to put up a barrier?

Hell by that point the barrier would most likely already be up

He did 1 katon before he entered HM and may i remind you he used a Katon back during the Sannin fight so saying he can only use those Katons in HM are crap they are probably more power full when he is in HM but he still can use them outside HM

As for C3 If Gaara's sand was able to stop C3 Ken's Metal shield should protect Jiraiya

Or he could Blast it right out of the Sky with a Katon

Or Use the frog travelling Jutsu to escape the immediate area

Ken's metal shield = Gaara's sand shield?

What frog traveling jutsu?

How exactly is detection barrier going to help with C4? Jiraiya has no idea how C4 even works, as soon as he breathes he'd dead.

Base Jiraiya's only Katon is a combo with Gamabunta.

[TasteTheDifference]

Base Jiraiya's only Katon is a combo with Gamabunta.

You forgot about this earth shattering move (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/16/)

[Truepotential]

You forgot about this earth shattering move (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/16/)

Aw, my bad. But to be honest, it doesn't matter.

C4's bombs are so small they are on the levle of microscopular, how exactly is detection barrier tracking the movement of microscopular objects?

[sanji's left eye]

Aw, my bad. But to be honest, it doesn't matter.

C4's bombs are so small they are on the levle of microscopular, how exactly is detection barrier tracking the movement of microscopular objects?

thats where specualtion comes in and if you think it could at least allow jiraiya to sense them. this is the only part of my post that has to do with you truepotential and the rest is my opinion.

lets see...

toad stomache defends from C3, C4, AND suicide blast. detection barrier can sense any sort of microscopic stuff coming(IMO!!!). that protection barrier could very well protect from C4 as well. C1 dodged as well as C2 or perhaps defeated with katons, frog summons, hair or oil.

he could attack deidara directly with katons, hair, oil, frog summons, and taijutsu. gamaken, gamabunta, or some other frog could help him reach deidara and give him time to use hermit mode. hermit mode took about a minute or 2 to use when he had to summon ma and pa. if he can still go hermit mode without having to summon ma and pa the time to go hermit mode would no doubt be reduced dramtically.

[-Maya-]

Ken's metal shield = Gaara's sand shield?

What frog traveling jutsu?

How exactly is detection barrier going to help with C4? Jiraiya has no idea how C4 even works, as soon as he breathes he'd dead.

Base Jiraiya's only Katon is a combo with Gamabunta.

Gaara's sand only lasts as a Defence aslong as Gaara has the Chakra to hold it together Ken's metal however sheilds attacks without Ken having to continuisly pumping Chakra into it

Travelling Frog Jutsu Jiraiya travels long distances by entering a Size manipulating Toad

First the Detection barrier senses the Nano bombs in the atmosphere then Jiraiya all he needs to do is put up his protection Barrier or Start using Katons of Huge AOE

Aw, my bad. But to be honest, it doesn't matter.

C4's bombs are so small they are on the levle of microscopular, how exactly is detection barrier tracking the movement of microscopular objects?

Cellar level If the sharingan can sense/see them even when the sharingan doesn't specialise in the area of Insight (Thats the Hyuuga) then that Barrier should

[Truepotential]

Gaara's sand only lasts as a Defence aslong as Gaara has the Chakra to hold it together Ken's metal however sheilds attacks without Ken having to continuisly pumping Chakra into it


What? I know how it works, are you honestly saying that Gamaken's shield has the strength of Gaara's sand shield?

Travelling Frog Jutsu Jiraiya travels long distances by entering a Size manipulating Toad


Entering a Frog? Yes, Deidara sits back and lets Jiraiya do that.

First the Detection barrier senses the Nano bombs in the atmosphere then Jiraiya all he needs to do is put up his protection Barrier or Start using Katons of Huge AOE

Proof of it sensing something that small?

Yes, because Jiraiya has knowledge that Garuda actually is made up of tiny bombs right? As soon as Garuda is dissipated into tiny bombs, Jiraiya will breathe, and that'll be the end of him.

Cellar level If the sharingan can sense/see them even when the sharingan doesn't specialise in the area of Insight (Thats the Hyuuga) then that Barrier should

Sharingan can detect the color of chakra, detection barrier can't. How is the detection barrier going to sense something on the the celluar level?

[Cochise]

Deidara has abilities which Jiraiya has no hope of defense against considering feats, and I'm pretty sure he won't be adding new defensive jutsu's.

[-Maya-]

What? I know how it works, are you honestly saying that Gamaken's shield has the strength of Gaara's sand shield?


The bond between metal molecules would be stronger than Loose Sand



Entering a Frog? Yes, Deidara sits back and lets Jiraiya do that.

He should frogs being ampibians can old their breath and Jiraiya can reappear somewhere out of the range of the C4



Proof of it sensing something that small?


Proof of it Not sensing something That Small?



Yes, because Jiraiya has knowledge that Garuda actually is made up of tiny bombs right? As soon as Garuda is dissipated into tiny bombs, Jiraiya will breathe, and that'll be the end of him.



Sharingan can detect the color of chakra, detection barrier can't. How is the detection barrier going to sense something on the the celluar level?

You're assuming that the Barrier has a limit to it's sensing ability when so Far it has sensed everything it has attempted to detect

[materpillar]

Please Don't rely on Anime Filler to claim Deidara Can't be speed BlitzedI don't watch the anime, and I provided scans :oh


As for speed Feat for HM going from high ground to right in front of Pein and creating a huge Rasengan in the process before his sandal hit the ground How can that not be a Speed feat Pein got caught with his pants down and got kicked in the face. Deidara got caught with his pants down and neatly evaded sasuke. Deidara has held off 3 excellent taijutsu specialists and a fodder-nin without arms. HM isn't going to just walts up and rip deidara limb from limb. This point is null anyways because by the time j-man is in HM deidara is flying and thus not in taijutsu.

You guys are also overestimating the protection barrier.
1) we really don't have the faintest idea how strong it is,
2) j-man used it to hide under water, (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/381/12/) here there is no water.

Its a tiny frog. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/381/12/) Deidara will just pound it repeatedly with c2 or c1 until it explodes and dies (assuming it survived c3).

Now theoretically lets say that the barrier is indestructible and isn't affected by c4. Couldn't deidara just have his dragon eat it? Or maybe park and exploding clone or c2 bomb right in front of it. J-man would have a wonderful time slipping out of that unharmed.

So lets now say that j-man had slipped into the barrier before c3. The barrier survives (in this scenario) and j-man manages to slip out without getting blown to hell. Gama died from c3. This leaves j-man with a pitiful set of moves. Smaller summons that c2 will simply trash. Rasengans which require j-man to get closer than he ever will (and deidara has easily evaded in the past). Random hair attacks which deidara could dodge, or even set on fire for more fun. Last and certainly least, katons :zaru. Yeah, Jiraiya is screwed.

Throw in Ma and Pa however, and deidara would probably lose to a combination of epic tongue, hydro pump, and frog song.

[nnafo]

I really don't see how Jiraya could win. Honestly, Jiraya is a lot stronger than Deidara, but he's a close combat fighter. Deidara can hop on his bird and avoid near every one of Jiraya's attacks. That combined with the fact that Deidara's C3 would rape Jiraya from the inside out, and since Jiraya has no lightning jutsu he wouldn't be able to disarm the bombs like Sasuke was able to.

Jiraya is really one of the most poweful ninjas in the naurtoverse, but this just isn't his fight.

[bug_ninja]

Both are strong and not a lot of characters can beat them but I'm giving this one to Jman.

[Final Jutsu]

I just can't see Deidara winning this.. unless he gets off c4.. even then, perhaps Jiraiya's barrier would detect it.. Lion mane like someone stated would most likely capture Deidara.. then you have the needle barrage..I mean, sasuke hit Deidara on his first try with the kunai.. so it's possible to hit. Gama might be overkill.

[Mégas Strategos]

Jiraiya doesn't really have a great defense against something like C4 or #18 nor does he have the knowledge to apply any of his defenses in time. I really doubt the detection barrier would be able to detect millions of microscopic bombs... and Gamaken's shield would have no chance of defending #18. Deidara takes this if he manages to get airborne.

[Agony]

jman definitely wins this but if deidara have the chance to use c4,then my vote goes for dei.

[-Maya-]

I don't watch the anime, and I provided scans :oh

Pein got caught with his pants down and got kicked in the face. Deidara got caught with his pants down and neatly evaded sasuke. Deidara has held off 3 excellent taijutsu specialists and a fodder-nin without arms. HM isn't going to just walts up and rip deidara limb from limb. This point is null anyways because by the time j-man is in HM deidara is flying and thus not in taijutsu.

You guys are also overestimating the protection barrier.
1) we really don't have the faintest idea how strong it is,
2) j-man used it to hide under water, (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/381/12/) here there is no water.

Its a tiny frog. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/381/12/) Deidara will just pound it repeatedly with c2 or c1 until it explodes and dies (assuming it survived c3).

Now theoretically lets say that the barrier is indestructible and isn't affected by c4. Couldn't deidara just have his dragon eat it? Or maybe park and exploding clone or c2 bomb right in front of it. J-man would have a wonderful time slipping out of that unharmed.

So lets now say that j-man had slipped into the barrier before c3. The barrier survives (in this scenario) and j-man manages to slip out without getting blown to hell. Gama died from c3. This leaves j-man with a pitiful set of moves. Smaller summons that c2 will simply trash. Rasengans which require j-man to get closer than he ever will (and deidara has easily evaded in the past). Random hair attacks which deidara could dodge, or even set on fire for more fun. Last and certainly least, katons :zaru. Yeah, Jiraiya is screwed.

Throw in Ma and Pa however, and deidara would probably lose to a combination of epic tongue, hydro pump, and frog song.

Deidara Never fought 3 Taijutsu specialists that was Anime Filler


C3 Is incredibly slow attack a powerfull Katon could destroy it long before it lands

If you think C2 will do shit againsta summon that is high level and geared towards defence when it couldn't kill a Boy or a low elevel summon hthen you may be an idiot

[TasteTheDifference]

Deidara Never fought 3 Taijutsu specialists that was Anime Filler


C3 Is incredibly slow attack a powerfull Katon could destroy it long before it lands

If you think C2 will do shit againsta summon that is high level and geared towards defence when it couldn't kill a Boy or a low elevel summon hthen you may be an idiot

Deidara did escape from team Gai at close range

He was also able to escape Gaara's sand on foot (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/248/08/)

The C3 would have to be negated by a Raiton for this to work, if it were attacked by a Katon it would explode anyway

[Effy]

jman wins :noworry

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

There is no knowlegde on either side. Jiraiya wouldnt make it past C4. He wouldnt know what to look for. Deidara wins this. Jiraiya is the better an stronger shinobi but Deidara's advantage of flight is really key here.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

jman definitely wins this but if deidara have the chance to use c4,then my vote goes for dei.

Do you mind setting a distance.

[Agony]

100 yards.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

100 yards.

Thank you.

Does Deidara start on his clay bird or not?

[materpillar]

Deidara Never fought 3 Taijutsu specialists that was Anime Filler
Deidara with no arms after a long fight (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/14/)
Taijutsu specialists Gai, lee, and neji. Ten-ten also available (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/15/)
Deidara holding them off (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/16/)
:notrust


C3 Is incredibly slow attack a powerfull Katon could destroy it long before it landsPowerful katon :zaru
C3 could have destroyed most of suna. By the time it is within katon range, j-man is screwed. C3 explosion (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/)

Furthermore, proof that any of deidara's clay explodes when touched. (mines excluded)
If you think C2 will do shit againsta summon that is high level and geared towards defence when it couldn't kill a Boy or a low elevel summon hthen you may be an idiot Snake has armor plating. Gamakun is squishy, and when was it said he was defensive? He has a shield? That had an utterspeed h4x, randomly appearing epic armor, much PNJ, and elemental advantage.

[TasteTheDifference]

What is the point of this fight. Without Ni Dai Sennin Jiraiya has no capabilities that Deidara would not be able to avoid on his Bird. I don't see why Deidara would not be able to elude even an attack on this level (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/), he was able to escape much larger masses of sand after all. In addition the attack wouldn't be as large if used by Gamaken.

[-Maya-]

Deidara with no arms after a long fight (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/14/)
Taijutsu specialists Gai, lee, and neji. Ten-ten also available (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/15/)
Deidara holding them off (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/16/)
:notrust


Being able to dodge Shruikans from Tenten= Immune from Speedblitz ?


Powerful katon :zaru
C3 could have destroyed most of suna. By the time it is within katon range, j-man is screwed. C3 explosion (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/)

We have seen from Sasuke Katon's can travel high into the air Jiraiya takes
C3 out with a Katon forcing it to explode above him in the sky just like Gaara did with Suna

And even if some of the blast waves reach Jiraiya he can protect himself with any High rank Doton or he uses the Protection barrier or he simply travels away in his Transport Toad


Snake has armor plating. Gamakun is squishy, and when was it said he was defensive? He has a shield? That had an utterspeed h4x, randomly appearing epic armor, much PNJ, and elemental advantage.


That Snake was Smaller than the Fodder ones summoned By Oro in the FOD and you're saying that it has a greater defence than a Toad who can defend himself from Multiple summons and attacks that were capable of level skyscrapers


People Overate C3 it is too slow it would be destroyed long before it reaches a distance close enougth to Harm Jiraiya

[materpillar]

Being able to dodge Shruikans from Tenten= Immune from Speedblitz ?Top right page. There are 4 blurrs. ( http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/16/) One is deidara the others are almost guaranteedly gai, lee, and neji. He's evading them with NO ARMS. Evading speedwhores... where do I remember that happening? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/08/) :notrust


We have seen from Sasuke Katon's can travel high into the air Jiraiya takes
C3 out with a Katon forcing it to explode above him in the sky just like Gaara did with SunaDeidara isn't obviously doing the handseal to blow it up in the bottom panel here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/11/). Furthermore look how high he blew it up, knowing it still would have taken out most of suna. Scans for an explosion getting started by someone else or be quiet. (mines excluded, they're designed to do that)


And even if some of the blast waves reach Jiraiya he can protect himself with any High rank Doton or he uses the Protection barrier or he simply travels away in his Transport Toad Again C3 would kill gama. Then j-man has no decent way to kill him. Not to mention it would force him into the barrier which deidara could kill at leisure. Also, we have no decent argument for the barrier surviving or dieing. Finally, what doton and transport toad are you talking about?


That Snake was Smaller than the Fodder ones summoned By Oro in the FOD and you're saying that it has a greater defence than a Toad who can defend himself from Multiple summons and attacks that were capable of level skyscrapers Snakes have scales which resist damage. Frog's have skin which burns. The snake survived c1, not c2. LOL @ Deidara not being able to level skyscrapers, which the dog didn't even manage.

[Truepotential]

The bond between metal molecules would be stronger than Loose Sand


Loose sand? That sand is compressed with Gaara's chakra.

Proof that it's metal?

He should frogs being ampibians can old their breath and Jiraiya can reappear somewhere out of the range of the C4

?? What are you talking about?

Proof of it Not sensing something That Small?

The fact that it's only sensed a giant chameleon.

You're assuming that the Barrier has a limit to it's sensing ability when so Far it has sensed everything it has attempted to detect

That's where the no limits fallacy comes in.

Saying that detection barrier can sense something that small is basically saying Jiraiya can track the movements of bacteria.

[TWF]

Jiraiya punches in Deidara's face to into a bloody maw of flesh, gore and bites of bone and brain matter before he's capable of reacting.

[materpillar]

Jiraiya punches in Deidara's face to into a bloody maw of flesh, gore and bites of bone and brain matter before he's capable of reacting.
that's right he doesn't :oh
decent argument or GTFO

[-Maya-]

Top right page. There are 4 blurrs. ( http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/16/) One is deidara the others are almost guaranteedly gai, lee, and neji. He's evading them with NO ARMS. Evading speedwhores... where do I remember that happening? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/08/) :notrust


Lame Jokes Don't impress?



Deidara isn't obviously doing the handseal to blow it up in the bottom panel here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/11/). Furthermore look how high he blew it up, knowing it still would have taken out most of suna. Scans for an explosion getting started by someone else or be quiet. (mines excluded, they're designed to do that)

I'm not Judging the power But Katons can reach the upper atmosphere


Again C3 would kill gama. Then j-man has no decent way to kill him. Not to mention it would force him into the barrier which deidara could kill at leisure. Also, we have no decent argument for the barrier surviving or dieing. Finally, what doton and transport toad are you talking about?


Jeez C3 IS A SLOW ATTACK thats why he needed to use Suna as Bait for Gaara, Gama or anyfrog wouldn't try to take the Hit they would avade easilly

The transport Toad that enabled Jiraiya to Travel between Villages within Panels


Snakes have scales which resist damage. Frog's have skin which burns. The snake survived c1, not c2. LOL @ Deidara not being able to level skyscrapers, which the dog didn't even manage.


Yes Beacause thats how the frogs in part 1 crushed snake and their armour so easilly ?

C2 was barely able to blow 1 of Sasuke's wings off and you say it will kill a giant Toad what logic is that





Loose sand? That sand is compressed with Gaara's chakra.


Loose Sand that relies on gaara's chakra to stabilize when he runs out the Sand no longer sheilds Him




Proof that it's metal?

The Clang sounds when it was hit in the Pein fight?



?? What are you talking about?


Toads Can hold their breaths Toads in Naruto verse could easilly evade the area of effect of C4

[Elite Uchiha]

Jiraiya summons Bunta and rapes.

[Truepotential]

Loose Sand that relies on gaara's chakra to stabilize when he runs out the Sand no longer sheilds Him

That has nothing to do with this thread...Gaara's chakra does stabilize the sand.

Toads Can hold their breaths Toads in Naruto verse could easilly evade the area of effect of C4

:facepalm

Jiraiya isn't going shit without knowledge of C4, he doesn't even know that Garuda is actually composed of small bombs or how the bombs even work. If not breathing was the solution, Sasuke would've done the same thing.

In character Jiraiya won't summon Gamaken because it's too small to even reach Deidara, he'll immediately summon Gamabunta, and without knowledge of C3, he won't even know that he'll need a shield.

I'm still :lmao at Gamaken's shield which stopped some random summon can stop a city busting attack.

[Elite Uchiha]

Jiraiya summons gama, then they use the oil on him. Come on, this isnt a fair fight with bunta.

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Jiraiya summons gama, then they use the oil on him. Come on, this isnt a fair fight with bunta.

When have summons been used without the threat of another summons? Akatsuki members routinely take out beasts greater than Summons too.

[materpillar]

Lame Jokes Don't impress?
:apathy I'm getting too serious aren't I...


I'm not Judging the power But Katons can reach the upper atmosphereOk so katons can fly really high? Point being?


Jeez C3 IS A SLOW ATTACK thats why he needed to use Suna as Bait for Gaara, Gama or anyfrog wouldn't try to take the Hit they would avade easilly
It isn't a slow attack. Sure it isn't kirin, but its city destroying explosion makes up for any "slowness" it might have.

The transport Toad that enabled Jiraiya to Travel between Villages within Panels
This frog?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/15/
We really don't know anything about it. I doubt it just teleported him over to the rain village. I'd just assume he used it like a taxi. Since there seems to be ample room to sit around inside of those toads.


Yes Beacause thats how the frogs in part 1 crushed snake and their armour so easilly ?Armor plating doesn't help when something several times larger than you falls on you. Seriously look at the size difference here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/124/10/)


C2 was barely able to blow 1 of Sasuke's wings off and you say it will kill a giant Toad what logic is thatBarely? That wing was completely and utterly gone. Not to mention the CS2 wings can take a ridiculous amount of damage for some reason.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

100 yards away:hmm?

Then I still say Jiraiya wins.

First off it is a lot easier to get Deidara with Toad Oil Blast (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/06.jpg) then people think, before you say "Deidara will be in the air so he won't be caught" remember Konan was in the air too when he used it.

Lets see at this time Jiraiya can make a Kage Bunshin to go for Deidara.

The Kage Bunshin will get Deidara with Toad Oil Blast (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/06.jpg) then Deidara will respond by destroying it with with the clay centipedes (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000359/11.jpg).

Then Jiraiya will know he is a long ranged fighter, so due to his restrictions he'll summon Gamabunta, then Get to Deidara's location and use Katon: Fireball (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000371/16.jpg) which will get him since he is covered in oil, and just to be safe him and Gamabunta will use the Toad Oil Fire (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg) to end it.

[-Maya-]

Jiraiya isn't going shit without knowledge of C4, he doesn't even know that Garuda is actually composed of small bombs or how the bombs even work. If not breathing was the solution, Sasuke would've done the same thing.

That comment was on the basis that Jiraiya detection barrier could sense the Nano bombs the frog could hold it's breath long enougth to escape the area, Not breathing would slow C4 down but not stop it indefinatly



In character Jiraiya won't summon Gamaken because it's too small to even reach Deidara, he'll immediately summon Gamabunta, and without knowledge of C3, he won't even know that he'll need a shield.

I'm still :lmao at Gamaken's shield which stopped some random summon can stop a city busting attack.

Once again you're taking what i said out of context i originally Sai that Ken's Sheild would protect him from C1 and C2 bombs

As for Ken being too Small have you forgotten how high Toads can jump in the Narutoverse?



Ok so katons can fly really high? Point being?

That just Maybe Jiraiya can premediatly destroy C3 long before the Bomb reaches detonation range



It isn't a slow attack. Sure it isn't kirin, but its city destroying explosion makes up for any "slowness" it might have.

But it is slow enougth to give Jiraiya and his toad to escape



This frog?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/15/
We really don't know anything about it. I doubt it just teleported him over to the rain village. I'd just assume he used it like a taxi. Since there seems to be ample room to sit around inside of those toads.


Well however it moved it was Fast seeing as it travelled countries span in a matter of panels.


Armor plating doesn't help when something several times larger than you falls on you. Seriously look at the size difference here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/124/10/)


Snakes are made out of Muscle and have tough Skin But we have seen in this manga Naruto riping the snakes apart with Kunai and that Snake was bigger than the one that stopped Deidara Bomb

Barely? That wing was completely and utterly gone. Not to mention the CS2 wings can take a ridiculous amount of damage for some reason.


yet it didn't blow Sasuke apart

Sasuke at that time had 2 wings a Torso and Limbs so that 1 Wing was 1/4 of his Body mass


If it could only destroy 1/4 of Sasuke what Chance does it stand against a30ft Toad

[Elite Uchiha]

When have summons been used without the threat of another summons? Akatsuki members routinely take out beasts greater than Summons too.

This is a Summon + Gamabunta. Show me a scan showing he can dodge Gamas attacks and Jiraiya's.

[materpillar]

That comment was on the basis that Jiraiya detection barrier could sense the Nano bombs the frog could hold it's breath long enougth to escape the area, Not breathing would slow C4 down but not stop it indefinatly


That just Maybe Jiraiya can premediatly destroy C3 long before the Bomb reaches detonation range None of deidara's explosions have been caused by someone else (mines excluded). They can get hit with a shuriken and not explode, (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/266/13/) why should a katon be any different? If the katon thing worked, why didn't sasuke just spam them?


But it is slow enougth to give Jiraiya and his toad to escape
I don't understand why you think it is that slow. Look at the explosion anyway. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/) It is flicken huge, and j-man would have 2-3 seconds tops to get away. Fat chance of that.


Well however it moved it was Fast seeing as it travelled countries span in a matter of panels.Those panels could have been several days for all we know.


Snakes are made out of Muscle and have tough Skin But we have seen in this manga Naruto riping the snakes apart with Kunai and that Snake was bigger than the one that stopped Deidara BombWhen did naruto rip a snake apart with a kunai? He made them explode from the inside. sasuke killed a snake by hitting it on the inside of its mouth, not scales. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/47/Nar-6-2-17/)


yet it didn't blow Sasuke apart
IDK PNJ? :huh

Sasuke at that time had 2 wings a Torso and Limbs so that 1 Wing was 1/4 of his Body mass

If it could only destroy 1/4 of Sasuke what Chance does it stand against a30ft Toad
A fairly decent one. Those wings seem tailor made to tank stuff. The toads aren't

100 yards away:hmm?

Then I still say Jiraiya wins.

First off it is a lot easier to get Deidara with Toad Oil Blast (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/06.jpg) then people think, before you say "Deidara will be in the air so he won't be caught" remember Konan was in the air too when he used it. Not very far up (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/372/07/)
The height difference is great (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/07/)


Lets see at this time Jiraiya can make a Kage Bunshin to go for Deidara.

The Kage Bunshin will get Deidara with Toad Oil Blast (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000372/06.jpg) then Deidara will respond by destroying it with with the clay centipedes (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000359/11.jpg).

Then Jiraiya will know he is a long ranged fighter, so due to his restrictions he'll summon Gamabunta, then Get to Deidara's location and use Katon: Fireball (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000371/16.jpg) which will get him since he is covered in oil, and just to be safe him and Gamabunta will use the Toad Oil Fire (http://img45.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000170/13.jpg) to end it.
Couldn't deidara just sink into his bird/dragon to evade this? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/16/)
This is a Summon + Gamabunta. Show me a scan showing he can dodge Gamas attacks and Jiraiya's.
I'll do it later for you EU

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Not very far up (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/372/07/)
The height difference is great (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/07/)

OK, but IMO he'd still get him.

Couldn't deidara just sink into his bird/dragon to evade this? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/360/16/)

With knowledge yeah.

[Elite Uchiha]

Dont put up that Gaara shit either Mat.

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

This is a Summon + Gamabunta. Show me a scan showing he can dodge Gamas attacks and Jiraiya's.

Show me a scan of Jiraiya calling out bunta without the threat of another summoner on the field. By the time Deidara is in the air its bombs away and a dead Jiaraiya.

[Elite Uchiha]

Show me a scan of Jiraiya calling out bunta without the threat of another summoner on the field. By the time Deidara is in the air its bombs away and a dead Jiaraiya.

Its called Plot-no-jutsu.

Kishi doesnt want to use summons in every fite. He wants uchihas not frogs.

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Its called Plot-no-jutsu.

Kishi doesnt want to use summons in every fite. He wants uchihas not frogs.

No plot-no-jutsu means Deidara starts in the air and stays in the air and bombs the shit of Jiraiya.

[Elite Uchiha]

What lolz. Deidara has to make the c2 bird. By then Jiraiya has Bunta out spiting water bombs at him and squashing him.

[Roka]

Deidara starts with C4. It's over, he wins.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Deidara starts with C4. It's over, he wins.

So anytime he is blood lusted he uses his last resort at the beginning?

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

What lolz. Deidara has to make the c2 bird. By then Jiraiya has Bunta out spiting water bombs at him and squashing him.

In his fight with Sasuke he was in the air from the get go. Plot-no-jutsu made him go to the ground. There was nothing stating the Op that he was on the ground or not.:)

[materpillar]

OK, but IMO he'd still get him.
J-man doesn't spit out much oil, and from that distance I fail to see how the oil wouldn't be dodged or blocked (by the bird/dragon)

With knowledge yeah.
BUNTA GIVE ME SOME OIL...KATON! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/12/) It isn't hard to figure out what is coming.

dragon's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/16-17/)
Bunta's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/02/)
So the dragon is about 1/2 the size
Oil stuffs (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/)
The dragon won't be able to dodge out of the fire, assuming it starts right in the middle. If it was already close to the edge, it would slip out. Which is more likely because the second deidara sees gama he is going to be gaining altitude to drop a c3 on it.

Solution number 1: Drop a c2 in front of the oil. I'd say the c2 is not that much smaller (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/11/) than the oil stuffs. This would blow away most of the fireball of doom.

Solution number 2: Land, sink into the dragon and wait it out. Sure the dragon won't be flying much, but Deidara will live it out. He could also crash land and jump under ground.


But seriously the moment deidara sees gama. He is going to
a) be getting the fuck away on his non-mobile dragon. Its a frog, so can obviously jump really high. It can probably take a c2 and keep fighting. Yeah, hanging around isn't a good idea. c3 would seem better
b) hop onto a bird and fly circles around gama pelting him with c1 birds. Extra points if you hit it in the eye!

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

J-man doesn't spit out much oil, and from that distance I fail to see how the oil wouldn't be dodged or blocked (by the bird/dragon)

Seemed like a lot of oil to me.

BUNTA GIVE ME SOME OIL...KATON! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/12/) It isn't hard to figure out what is coming.

dragon's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/16-17/)
Bunta's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/02/)
So the dragon is about 1/2 the size
Oil stuffs (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/)
The dragon won't be able to dodge out of the fire, assuming it starts right in the middle. If it was already close to the edge, it would slip out. Which is more likely because the second deidara sees gama he is going to be gaining altitude to drop a c3 on it.

Solution number 1: Drop a c2 in front of the oil. I'd say the c2 is not that much smaller (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/11/) than the oil stuffs. This would blow away most of the fireball of doom.

Solution number 2: Land, sink into the dragon and wait it out. Sure the dragon won't be flying much, but Deidara will live it out. He could also crash land and jump under ground.


But seriously the moment deidara sees gama. He is going to
a) be getting the fuck away on his non-mobile dragon. Its a frog, so can obviously jump really high. It can probably take a c2 and keep fighting. Yeah, hanging around isn't a good idea. c3 would seem better
b) hop onto a bird and fly circles around gama pelting him with c1 birds. Extra points if you hit it in the eye!

Deidara doesn't know Jiraiya uses Katon.

[Nikushimi]

Bloodlusted Deidara?

Jiraiya gets the fuck blown out of him in one attack. Fight ends before it can even begin.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Deidara loses pretty easy, all he has to do is make to KBs hid in on KB's shadow, get the other KB to use the swamp, then spam needle barrage, and the other to keep using the toad oil blast till it hits, and when it eventually hits one of them uses a Katon and we get JFD Jiraiya Fried Deidara.

[Nikushimi]

Deidara loses pretty easy, all he has to do is make to KBs hid in on KB's shadow, get the other KB to use the swamp, then spam needle barrage, and the other to keep using the toad oil blast till it hits, and when it eventually hits one of them uses a Katon and we get JFD Jiraiya Fried Deidara.

Nendo Kawarimi. Then either a Jibaku Bunshin or C3 rapefest. Though a hailstorm of C1 would probably be enough.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Nendo Kawarimi. Then either a Jibaku Bunshin or C3 rapefest. Though a hailstorm of C1 would probably be enough.

The swamp of the underworld followed by the Protection barrier.

[Nikushimi]

The swamp of the underworld followed by the Protection barrier.

At this range? I don't think so.

Besides, Deidara is an opponent who can jump freakin' high, and fight in the air. Doton: Yomi Numa is worthless.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

At this range? I don't think so.

What?

Just summon a swamp, summon a toad go in the toad and make it go in the swamp.

Besides, Deidara is an opponent who can jump freakin' high, and fight in the air. Doton: Yomi Numa is worthless.

The swamp isn't meant to attack him.

[-Maya-]

None of deidara's explosions have been caused by someone else (mines excluded). They can get hit with a shuriken and not explode, (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/266/13/) why should a katon be any different? If the katon thing worked, why didn't sasuke just spam them?



Actually some of Deidara bombs blew up when Sasuke hit them with the Senbon but some others didn't which caused Sasuke to wonder was it his doing or Had Deidara not detonated to save Tobi

SHuriken unlike Katons do not carry a Concussive force explosion when they detonate

Why didn't Sasuke Spam Katons then? Maybe he was conserving Chakra or allready had a different Plan of attack


I don't understand why you think it is that slow. Look at the explosion anyway. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/249/12-13/) It is flicken huge, and j-man would have 2-3 seconds tops to get away. Fat chance of that.

It took a while for it to drop from deidara Position more than enougth time for a Toad to pull off one of those huge jumps



When did naruto rip a snake apart with a kunai? He made them explode from the inside. sasuke killed a snake by hitting it on the inside of its mouth, not scales. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/47/Nar-6-2-17/)

When Naruto saved Sasuke he used 2 kunais to pierce the snake and used them to hold it Back they had no trouble piercing the Snakes Scales


IDK PNJ? :huh

Is PNJ a Valid argument in the Battledome? :P



A fairly decent one. Those wings seem tailor made to tank stuff. The toads aren't



You mean the Toads that were able to take the Lash of the King of the Snakes tail with his Bare hands or the Toad capable of withstanding Buildings Breaking on his back and multiple summons?

[Narcissus]

Seriously, I think that Deidara wins this one. I really think he is one of the stronger ninjas in the manga - after all, the only reason Sasuke won was because of the lighting advantage, and having Oro sealed within himself, giving him more power.

Overall, Jiraiya is the stronger of the two, but he would need Ma and PA to win this, I think. Without them, C4 will end Jiraiya and any of his summons, considering he has no knowledge of the attack.

[-Maya-]

Seriously, I think that Deidara wins this one. I really think he is one of the stronger ninjas in the manga - after all, the only reason Sasuke won was because of the lighting advantage, and having Oro sealed within himself, giving him more power.

Overall, Jiraiya is the stronger of the two, but he would need Ma and PA to win this, I think. Without them, C4 will end Jiraiya and any of his summons, considering he has no knowledge of the attack.

So what he would need Ma and Pa who basically gave him High level Suito Ninjutsu to beat Deidara

Actually Oro being in Sasuke made it harder for him seeing as it took away a portion of Chakra he could use in the fight

[Elite Uchiha]

This alone kills Deidara

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/

[Michael Myers]

Jiraiya wins this.

[Uchiha Mizukage]

Jiraiya owns him with summons

[Nikushimi]

What?

Just summon a swamp, summon a toad go in the toad and make it go in the swamp.



The swamp isn't meant to attack him.

Wait, Jiraiya jumps in his own swamp? o_O


An Hero no Jutsu. Jiraiya's HP becomes zero. It's over Deidara won. :zaru

[Truepotential]

That comment was on the basis that Jiraiya detection barrier could sense the Nano bombs the frog could hold it's breath long enougth to escape the area, Not breathing would slow C4 down but not stop it indefinatly

Actually, not breathing would stop C4, kinda like poison gas. Too bad Jiraiya has absolutely no knowledge, and Detection barrier ain't gonna work.

Once again you're taking what i said out of context i originally Sai that Ken's Sheild would protect him from C1 and C2 bombs

As for Ken being too Small have you forgotten how high Toads can jump in the Narutoverse?

HuH? You did say that Gamaken's shield would protect Jiraiya from C3.

Now you're saying it can't?

[materpillar]

This alone kills Deidara

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/
I've already said my rebuttal to that EU.
Actually some of Deidara bombs blew up when Sasuke hit them with the Senbon but some others didn't which caused Sasuke to wonder was it his doing or Had Deidara not detonated to save Tobi
Erm, no they didn't (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/12/)

SHuriken unlike Katons do not carry a Concussive force explosion when they detonateWait, since when to katons have a concussive force. And when do either of them detonate?:huh

Why didn't Sasuke Spam Katons then? Maybe he was conserving Chakra or allready had a different Plan of attack Or maybe because they wouldn't work :P


It took a while for it to drop from deidara Position more than enougth time for a Toad to pull off one of those huge jumps City sized AOE > toad jump


When Naruto saved Sasuke he used 2 kunais to pierce the snake and used them to hold it Back they had no trouble piercing the Snakes Scales
this? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/48/Nar-6-3-18/) Naruto is just using his hands. If you're talking about a different time, please provide scans.


Is PNJ a Valid argument in the Battledome? :P
That was an explanation not argument :pek


You mean the Toads that were able to take the Lash of the King of the Snakes tail with his Bare hands or the Toad capable of withstanding Buildings Breaking on his back and multiple summons?
Um, yes? It's easier to block a tail whip and chunk of building than a fireball.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Wait, Jiraiya jumps in his own swamp? o_O


An Hero no Jutsu. Jiraiya's HP becomes zero. It's over Deidara won. :zaru

I said he'd use the protection barrier then go in the swamp.

[materpillar]

I said he'd use the protection barrier then go in the swamp.
The swamp then hardens (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/378/16/).
Its over deidara won! :zaru

[Nikushimi]

I said he'd use the protection barrier then go in the swamp.

Barrier or not, now he's stuck. C1 in the hole, assuming Jiraiya doesn't just...drown anyway. :lmao

[Truepotential]

Wait, how is Jiraiya hiding in the Swamp of the underground....he'll get stuck and drown.

Plus, that swamp can't conceal Jiraiya.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

The swamp then hardens (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/378/16/).
Its over deidara won! :zaru

Barrier or not, now he's stuck. C1 in the hole, assuming Jiraiya doesn't just...drown anyway. :lmao

Wait, how is Jiraiya hiding in the Swamp of the underground....he'll get stuck and drown.

Plus, that swamp can't conceal Jiraiya.

The Toad can go in there hence why I said he uses the protection barrier and then goes in.

[Elite Uchiha]

This alone kills Deidara

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/

Until anyone can prove this can be stopped by Deidara, Jman wins with little effort.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Until anyone can prove this can be stopped by Deidara, Jman wins with little effort.

I agree with this, I posted this earlier and people have yet to disprove it.

[Truepotential]

The Toad can go in there hence why I said he uses the protection barrier and then goes in.

Then the toad gets stuck.......I have no idea wtf you're talking about. Also Protection Barrier requires Sennin Modo....

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Then the toad gets stuck.......I have no idea wtf you're talking about. Also Protection Barrier requires Sennin Modo....

NVM I was wrong.

Anyway I'm thinking the same as Elite Uchiha.

[BAD BD]

Gama gets summoned immediately. Dei gets crushed.

[materpillar]

Until anyone can prove this can be stopped by Deidara, Jman wins with little effort.

BUNTA GIVE ME SOME OIL...KATON! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/12/) It isn't hard to figure out what is coming.

dragon's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/16-17/)
Bunta's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/02/)
So the dragon is about 1/2 the size
Oil stuffs (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/)
The dragon won't be able to dodge out of the fire, assuming it starts right in the middle. If it was already close to the edge, it would slip out. Which is more likely because the second deidara sees gama he is going to be gaining altitude to drop a c3 on it.

Solution number 1: Drop a c2 in front of the oil. I'd say the c2 is not that much smaller (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/11/) than the oil stuffs. This would blow away most of the fireball of doom.

Solution number 2: Land, sink into the dragon and wait it out. Sure the dragon won't be flying much, but Deidara will live it out. He could also crash land and jump under ground.


But seriously the moment deidara sees gama. He is going to
a) be getting the fuck away on his non-mobile dragon. Its a frog, so can obviously jump really high. It can probably take a c2 and keep fighting. Yeah, hanging around isn't a good idea. c3 would seem better
b) hop onto a bird and fly circles around gama pelting him with c1 birds. Extra points if you hit it in the eye!
:facepalmIt's called reading EU

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

BUNTA GIVE ME SOME OIL...KATON! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/12/) It isn't hard to figure out what is coming.

dragon's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/16-17/)
Bunta's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/02/)
So the dragon is about 1/2 the size
Oil stuffs (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/)
The dragon won't be able to dodge out of the fire, assuming it starts right in the middle. If it was already close to the edge, it would slip out. Which is more likely because the second deidara sees gama he is going to be gaining altitude to drop a c3 on it.

Solution number 1: Drop a c2 in front of the oil. I'd say the c2 is not that much smaller (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/11/) than the oil stuffs. This would blow away most of the fireball of doom.

Solution number 2: Land, sink into the dragon and wait it out. Sure the dragon won't be flying much, but Deidara will live it out. He could also crash land and jump under ground.


But seriously the moment deidara sees gama. He is going to
a) be getting the fuck away on his non-mobile dragon. Its a frog, so can obviously jump really high. It can probably take a c2 and keep fighting. Yeah, hanging around isn't a good idea. c3 would seem better
b) hop onto a bird and fly circles around gama pelting him with c1 birds. Extra points if you hit it in the eye!

Manda is much faster then Deidara's clay creatures and the only way he dodged was by shedding his skin which the clay cannot.

[materpillar]

Manda is much faster then Deidara's clay creatures and the only way he dodged was by shedding his skin which the clay cannot. Where in my post did I say the c2 dragon could dodge the fireball? Please tell me. Further more, show me scans that manda is faster, because to be honest I don't think we have anything to compare their speeds with.

Manda managed to shed his skin, and jump under ground before the flames got to him. I fail to see why deidara couldn't just lob a c2 to negate the fireball, or at least buy him some time to get away. Or why deidara couldn't just pull the same maneuver that manda did.

Finally, why in the hell would deidara be anywhere close to gama.

[Roka]

So anytime he is blood lusted he uses his last resort at the beginning?

So Jiraiya would summon Gamabunta or go HM at the start of a fight for the lulz then right?

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Deidara bloodlusted would take to the sky immedately or be in the sky from the beginning and bomb the hell out of Jiraiya which is how this match up would happen.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

So Jiraiya would summon Gamabunta or go HM at the start of a fight for the lulz then right?

If his opponent is a long ranged fighter yes, depends if Deidara starts on the bird or not.

[Elite Uchiha]

Deidara's dragon isnt even mobile. Also, what makes you think Deidara will hear "Give me some oil"?

If Deidara takes the skies, Jiraiya immediately summons Bunta and uses the Oil + katon attack which no one has disproved he can dodge.

[Roka]

If his opponent is a long ranged fighter yes, depends if Deidara starts on the bird or not.

He didn't summon Bunta against Pein when Pein was using summons from a long range.

[Elite Uchiha]

Remember Stein, no PNJ allowed in this area. Clearly that was PNJ and Deidara is up in the air. Gamaken was enough in that situation. But for Deidara has hundreds of feet in the air.

Also, Bunta was to big for that area.

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

No PNJ means Deidara really goes high and just bombs the shit out of Jiraiya,.

[Roka]

If Deidara isn't PNJ'd either then he goes higher than Bunta can jump and just drops C3 on top of him.

[materpillar]

Deidara's dragon isnt even mobile. Also, what makes you think Deidara will hear "Give me some oil"?
He heard this guy (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/248/05/), from up here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/248/04/). It also seems that j-man pretty much screams it.

If Deidara takes the skies, Jiraiya immediately summons Bunta and uses the Oil + katon attack which no one has disproved he can dodge.
Not dodge. BLOCK. Read you idiot. This is the second time I've quoted this passage without any rebuttal. Make me do it again and I'm going to neg you.

BUNTA GIVE ME SOME OIL...KATON! (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/12/) It isn't hard to figure out what is coming.

dragon's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/16-17/)
Bunta's size (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/02/)
So the dragon is about 1/2 the size
Oil stuffs (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/)
The dragon won't be able to dodge out of the fire, assuming it starts right in the middle. If it was already close to the edge, it would slip out. Which is more likely because the second deidara sees gama he is going to be gaining altitude to drop a c3 on it.

Solution number 1: Drop a c2 in front of the oil. I'd say the c2 is not that much smaller (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/11/) than the oil stuffs. This would blow away most of the fireball of doom.

Solution number 2: Land, sink into the dragon and wait it out. Sure the dragon won't be flying much, but Deidara will live it out. He could also crash land and jump under ground.


But seriously the moment deidara sees gama. He is going to
a) be getting the fuck away on his non-mobile dragon. Its a frog, so can obviously jump really high. It can probably take a c2 and keep fighting. Yeah, hanging around isn't a good idea. c3 would seem better
b) hop onto a bird and fly circles around gama pelting him with c1 birds. Extra points if you hit it in the eye!
Further more give me a reason deidara would be in gamabunta's firing range. Seems to me that deidara would be flying up and away with all due haste.

[Elite Uchiha]

Mater, leave this thread.

How do you block fire :lmao


Deidara is ground based not water based :rotfl

[Roka]

Fire can be blocked with a big explosion pushing it away.

[Elite Uchiha]

IF and IF that can happen Jiraiya does another one and Deidara is flat outta clay :zaru

[Roka]

Why is he flat out of clay?

He could easily just leave and exploding clone on the ground to tunnel under Jiraiya and surprise him with a suicide blast whilst the real Deidara is way up in the sky dropping missiles down on Jiraiya.

[Elite Uchiha]

What the heck.....so Jiraiya wont notice another person dropping to the ground and dotoning.

[Roka]

What the heck.....so Jiraiya wont notice another person dropping to the ground and dotoning.

He switched himself with a clone in front of the eyes of a sharingan user and a byakugan user and that was with no arms :zaru

He could easily do it to Jiraiya at 100metres.

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

What the heck.....so Jiraiya wont notice another person dropping to the ground and dotoning.

Why would he when he is focusing on the the huge blast that he can his opponent created, maybe even blinded by the blast? Its similar to how Kakashi tricked Itachi after he used a Katon when facing the shoten clone.

[materpillar]

Deidara did it in front of Kakashi, naruto, gai, lee, neji, ten-ten, sakura, and chiyo within 20 feet of them and without any cover (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/17/) and none of them noticed. Here it'll be about 100m with giant explosion and fireball. Hell, a giant snake pulled it off.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

He didn't summon Bunta against Pein when Pein was using summons from a long range.

Ma and Pa were not banned against Pein and like anyone Jiraiya knew Pein was capable of so much more:edu

[Truepotential]

:lmao

So Deidara sits there does nothing when Gamabunta is summoned, and WAITS to be blasted?

Deidara sends a C3 is gamabunta's face as soon as its summoned, kthxbye.

[Roka]

Ma and Pa were not banned against Pein and like anyone Jiraiya knew Pein was capable of so much more:edu

Pity he didn't show that much more then.

But this has nothing to do with what Pein can do. He started long range and he only summoned Gamaken and his hair.

Deidara wins this due to the starting distance.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Pity he didn't show that much more then.

Of course he was fighting a mere Sannin that was meant to hype him further.

But this has nothing to do with what Pein can do. He started long range and he only summoned Gamaken and his hair.

Because he knew what Pein could do and decided to summon Ma and Pa, he probably would have summoned Gamabunta if he knew nothing about Pein.

[Roka]

Why would he have summoned Gamabunta against another man?

What would be the point in summong a huge frog just for one guy?

It's ridiculous.

[-Maya-]

:lmao

So Deidara sits there does nothing when Gamabunta is summoned, and WAITS to be blasted?

Deidara sends a C3 is gamabunta's face as soon as its summoned, kthxbye.

It not only took him a while to mold C3 it also wasn't rocket propelled like C2 so it had a slower descent

More than Enougth Time For Gama To jump and evade the bomb. How many times must i point that out



Why would he have summoned Gamabunta against another man?

What would be the point in summong a huge frog just for one guy?

It's ridiculous.

Well when he comes up against an oponent that acts like a fly how else would he Reach it?

Summon a Toad

[Roka]

Yes but if Deidara puts a clone underground to suicide in Jiraiya's face then he could just stay on the ground and win easily.

[materpillar]

It not only took him a while to mold C3 it also wasn't rocket propelled like C2 so it had a slower descent

More than Enougth Time For Gama To jump and evade the bomb. How many times must i point that out
C3 came pre-molded. it doesn't matter. City destroying AOE >>> Frog jump


Well when he comes up against an oponent that acts like a fly how else would he Reach it?

Summon a Toad
There is a difference between a toad and a boss summon

Seriously, the only thing gama even does that is bad for deidara is that giant oil thing, which can be canceled out. C1 would completely wreck gamabunta or any other summon. I don't me just one C1 bomb, I'm talking multiple hits over time.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Why would he have summoned Gamabunta against another man?

Because that man wouldn't require HM to defeat.

What would be the point in summong a huge frog just for one guy?

Well I imagine he would if his attacks won't reach.

It's ridiculous.

No its not.

[Roka]

No one has ever summoned a boss summon unless in dire need of one.

[KyuubiYondaime]

Jiraiya takes this. I could see him using Swamp of the Underworld once he sees Deidara's C2 dragon to sink it. Without going into the air, Jiraiya is fucked. I don't think Jiraiya really needs HM. In any case, Gamabunta would certainly be eneough. He jumps super high and his tongue as well as Jiraiya's super long maine and his hair needles.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

No one has ever summoned a boss summon unless in dire need of one.

So you think an Akatsuki member like Deidara will require a boss summon to beat?

Even with these restrictions?

[Roka]

I think people assuming Jiraiya would just summon Gamabunta straight away is stupid.

[materpillar]

Deidara can trash anything j-man throws at him. (Ma&Pa excluded, but they're banned).

Summons - Agile c1 birds slowly pick them apart.
Katons - :zaru (they're not destructive or fast enough to be a threat)
Hair - it isn't that long reaching. Deidara could just light it on fire also
c3/c4 just put icing on the cake

J-man's ONLY hope is gama oil+katon combo, catching deidara off guard. And that probably won't work.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

I think people assuming Jiraiya would just summon Gamabunta straight away is stupid.

Lets see, according to most people here some of his attacks won't reach Deidara and he had been banned from using Ma and Pa so to you summoning Gamabunta won't make sense?

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

By the time the dire need is obvious. Deidara should be far enough away from gamabunta to simply fly out of his range and drop c3 on it. Or he can hop onto his bird (if he isn't already) and fly circles around gamabunta blowing holes in him with c1. Either way works fine. The only problem gama poses is the giant oil+katon combo.

The Toad Oil Fireball, or maybe set Deidara up for an Ultimate Rasengan.

[Elite Uchiha]

Ok, this is how it goes down.

Deidara makes a C2 and Jiraiya sees this big thing. What will he do? He will obviously use Swamp of the Underworld.

Then summons gamabunta and uses the biggest AOE katon ever.

KKthxbai

[-Maya-]

C3 came pre-molded. it doesn't matter. City destroying AOE >>> Frog jump


There is a difference between a toad and a boss summon

Seriously, the only thing gama even does that is bad for deidara is that giant oil thing, which can be canceled out. C1 would completely wreck gamabunta or any other summon. I don't me just one C1 bomb, I'm talking multiple hits over time.

Are you serious Gama Was able to Jump all the way out of a Ravine and then high into the air

Higher than Gaara and Deidara were Flying and they were out of the Blast radius

C1 Couldn't kill a low level snake summon fodder

C2 couldn't vaporize Sasuke you keep on saying that it would destroy a Toad it's crap


Fact about |Deidara He can't fly as High as he wants he has human eyes not eagle he has to stay lowe enougth see the bombs he can't Fly a Mile high and drop bombs with accuracy

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Ok, this is how it goes down.

Deidara makes a C2 and Jiraiya sees this big thing. What will he do? He will obviously use Swamp of the Underworld.

Then summons gamabunta and uses the biggest AOE katon ever.

KKthxbai

And your completely wrong of course.

[Truepotential]

Ok, this is how it goes down.

Deidara makes a C2 and Jiraiya sees this big thing. What will he do? He will obviously use Swamp of the Underworld.

Then summons gamabunta and uses the biggest AOE katon ever.

KKthxbai

..Or Deidara uses C3 and decimates anything Jiraiya has.

kkthxbai.

[-Maya-]

And your completely wrong of course.

And the best argument you can make to refute him is that ?

[Elite Uchiha]

..Or Deidara uses C3 and decimates anything Jiraiya has.

kkthxbai.

And kills himself.

KKthxbai

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

And your completely wrong of course.

You can't think of an argument so you basically flame:rotfl

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

You can't think of an argument so you basically flame:rotfl

What flame? I didnt insult him, call him names nor did I degrade characters.:oh

The OP never stated whether Deidara starts in the air or not so he will be in the air and he will bomb the shit out of Jiraiya. His katon combo wont reach Deidara at a certain distance. C3 or C4 ends the fight. Hell Jiraiya dos the Katon combo and Deidara uses C1 or C2, big explosion. Jiraiya is blind for a moment at that is all that is needed for Deidara to drop C3 or C4.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

What flame? I didnt insult him, call him names nor did I degrade characters.:oh

The OP never stated whether Deidara starts in the air or not so he will be in the air and he will bomb the shit out of Jiraiya. His katon combo wont reach Deidara at a certain distance. C3 or C4 ends the fight. Hell Jiraiya dos the Katon combo and Deidara uses C1 or C2, big explosion. Jiraiya is blind for a moment at that is all that is needed for Deidara to drop C3 or C4.

Why did you forget to include the detection barrier?

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Why did you forget to include the detection barrier?

Why would he have it up? It only detects the movement of shinobi. It wouldnt detect the little bombs of C4.

[Elite Uchiha]

What flame? I didnt insult him, call him names nor did I degrade characters.:oh

The OP never stated whether Deidara starts in the air or not so he will be in the air and he will bomb the shit out of Jiraiya. His katon combo wont reach Deidara at a certain distance. C3 or C4 ends the fight. Hell Jiraiya dos the Katon combo and Deidara uses C1 or C2, big explosion. Jiraiya is blind for a moment at that is all that is needed for Deidara to drop C3 or C4.

Wait a second....so this

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/


is supposed to be stopped by this


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/04/


Something that didnt even effect Sasuke :rotfl :loool

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Why would he have it up? It only detects the movement of shinobi. It wouldnt detect the little bombs of C4.

It detects the slightest movement.

[Truepotential]

It detects the slightest movement.

C4 bombs are microscopic, I lol at detection barrier sensing that.

So Jiraiya can detect bacteria, lol....

And kills himself.

KKthxbai

lol wut? Deidara killing himself with C3? Are you making shit up?

Ok then Gamabunta redirects his flames and kill Jiraiya.

kkthxbai.

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Wait a second....so this

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/13/


is supposed to be stopped by this


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/358/04/


Something that didnt even effect Sasuke :rotfl :loool

Multiple C2 or C1 bombs which Deidara can make by the way would be more than enough to counter that and cause an explosion that gives Deidara the time to get away. Plus like I said the OP never stated whether Deidara was in the air from the beginning or not. If he is in the air then he rapes Jiraiya with C4/C3.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

C4 bombs are microscopic, I lol at detection barrier sensing that.

They move within the barrier then he detects simple hence the name detection barrier.

[Elite Uchiha]

Multiple C2 or C1 bombs which Deidara can make by the way would be more than enough to counter that and cause an explosion that gives Deidara the time to get away. Plus like I said the OP never stated whether Deidara was in the air from the beginning or not. If he is in the air then he rapes Jiraiya with C4/C3.

He has never shown to be able to do back to back to back c2.

[Truepotential]

They move within the barrier then he detects simple hence the name detection barrier.

That makes no sense at all, not even a little.

These things are microscopic, when has detection barrier shown the ability to detect bacteria or anything THAT small?

This is where the no limits fallacy comes in.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

That makes no sense at all, not even a little.

These things are microscopic, when has detection barrier shown the ability to detect bacteria or anything THAT small?

This is clay not bacteria just a Doton clay.

This is where the no limits fallacy comes in.

Please don't use that cop out just like that whole A>B>C thing which is right at times.

[Elite Uchiha]

If Deidara is on the ground.....Swamp of the Underwold...

If Deidara is in the air....hes going to be deep fried.

[-Maya-]

What flame? I didnt insult him, call him names nor did I degrade characters.:oh

The OP never stated whether Deidara starts in the air or not so he will be in the air and he will bomb the shit out of Jiraiya. His katon combo wont reach Deidara at a certain distance. C3 or C4 ends the fight. Hell Jiraiya dos the Katon combo and Deidara uses C1 or C2, big explosion. Jiraiya is blind for a moment at that is all that is needed for Deidara to drop C3 or C4.

Sasuke has proven Katons Can reach high into the atmosphere they would be able to reach Deidara

A Toad can easilly evade C3

Why would he have it up? It only detects the movement of shinobi. It wouldnt detect the little bombs of C4.

Where does it state that ?

That makes no sense at all, not even a little.

These things are microscopic, when has detection barrier shown the ability to detect bacteria or anything THAT small?

This is where the no limits fallacy comes in.

Actually if the Sharingan can see them despite it not specializing in the area of Observation than it's not too unbelieavble that the detection Barrier can also

For all you Know the detection barrier senses chakra and would sense the Chakra emitting from the bombs like Radar

[Truepotential]

This is clay not bacteria just a Doton clay.


Microscopular, just like the size of bacteria.

Please don't use that cop out just like that whole A>B>C thing which is right at times.

Except that the no limits fallacy is never right.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Microscopular, just like the size of bacteria.

Still a Doton.

Except that the no limits fallacy is never right.

It is at times like the A>B>C is at times.

[Sasaru]

J-man summons Gammabunta and takes Deidara. I think he could win.

[-Maya-]

Microscopular, just like the size of bacteria.



Except that the no limits fallacy is never right.

You're doing the exact same as Us We are assuming the Detection barrier would work with out conclusive evidence but your also assuming that it wouldn't without evidence

[Kenpachi_Uchiha]

Sasuke has proven Katons Can reach high into the atmosphere they would be able to reach Deidara

A Toad can easilly evade C3



Where does it state that ?



Actually if the Sharingan can see them despite it not specializing in the area of Observation than it's not too unbelieavble that the detection Barrier can also

For all you Know the detection barrier senses chakra and would sense the Chakra emitting from the bombs like Radar

So Deidara would stand stationary and allow himself to be caught by a Katon?

At this point the only thing it detected was movement by a shinobi and summon. There is no reason to believe that it would detect microscopic bombs.

[Gspot]

The one thing I'd like to point out above all else -

In my opinion, it's absolutely absurd to argue that Deidara in the air is safe from Jiraiya's (or any strong ninja's) attacks. The problem with this statement is that it is based only on pure, realistic logic - it's not the case in the Narutoverse. Guys... let's be real. While Deidara's bird does indeed provide good safety, it's certainly vulnerable to attack, as evidenced against Kazekage Gaara, and MKS Kakashi, and Sasuke. The whole point of Narutoverse fights is that people find ways around strong and annoying moves and tricks.

If Deidara can simply fly above the clouds and stay safe from all of Jiraiya's attacks... then to be fair, why can't Jiraiya can also enter a toad/reverse summon and be completely safe from harm, or hide safely in nearby pipes for an unlimited amount of time? Let's not say those kind of things, because they're untrue and unhelpful. It's like saying that Naruto can never win a fight because his opponents can just keep using easy kawarimi to evade his rasengans. Realistically, is this the case?? NO!!

Pick either Narutoverse logic or real logic (I highly recommend Narutoverse logic) for both characters, not just Deidara. It's not "Deidara is invulnerable in the air and can keep peppering Jiraiya with bombs".

[Roka]

Jiraiya has only ever used the detection barrier for finding something that is invisible. He would have no reason to use it when he can see Deidara clearly.

Also if Deidara starts on the ground he could have a clone plant mines and then suicide in Jiraiya's face.

If Deidara stays on the ground Jiraiya wouldn't just summon Gama. He'd go towards him and engage him with Ninjutsu and his hair.

[-Maya-]

So Deidara would stand stationary and allow himself to be caught by a Katon?

At this point the only thing it detected was movement by a shinobi and summon. There is no reason to believe that it would detect microscopic bombs.

No he would probably be circling on his Bird luckily Jiraiya has Katons with huge AOE that could even if they miss get deidara


We don't know how the Barrier detects things so you can't say that it wouldn't definatly work

[chrisp]

I like Deidara alot, but this is too much for him.

Jiraiya is almost impossible to beat.

[-Maya-]

Jiraiya has only ever used the detection barrier for finding something that is invisible. He would have no reason to use it when he can see Deidara clearly.

Also if Deidara starts on the ground he could have a clone plant mines and then suicide in Jiraiya's face.

If Deidara stays on the ground Jiraiya wouldn't just summon Gama. He'd go towards him and engage him with Ninjutsu and his hair.

Well when a Giant Deidara mahe out of Clay just simple dissapears he's gonna figure somethings up

Mines had to be stepped on to detonate and even if he does Jiraiya frog swamps them taking them deep underground

How would deidara get all the time in the world to to plant them in the frist place

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Jiraiya has only ever used the detection barrier for finding something that is invisible. He would have no reason to use it when he can see Deidara clearly.

So you expect me to believe that if Deidara just disappears he won't just the barrier.

Also if Deidara starts on the ground he could have a clone plant mines and then suicide in Jiraiya's face.

The clone would be destroyed by hair.

If Deidara stays on the ground Jiraiya wouldn't just summon Gama. He'd go towards him and engage him with Ninjutsu and his hair.

If Deidara is on the ground he would just use the swamp.

[TasteTheDifference]

It is at times like the A>B>C is at times.

What, with god like charaters whose abilities have been stated literally to have no limits


The detection barrier wouldn't help him detect C-4, that would make no sense. The detection barrier was stated to be a Ninjutsu which detects movement within its area of effect (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/05/). If it could detect C-4, wouldn't it also be able to detect pollen, insects, leaves, overwhelming your ability to concentrate.

[Roka]

They start at 100metres apart. That's a long distance.

Deidara can make clones and hide underground in front of a Byakugan and Sharingan with no arms from less than 100 metres away and yet you doubt he could make a clone Doton at 100metres without Jiraiya seeing it? Sure.

The clone plants the mines, Tobi done it in a quick time. Jiraiya comes forward whilst Deidara does what he does to start fights, C1 animals.

Jiraiya will deal with the C1 but with the mines around that he has no knowledge of and an exploding clone coming up beside him I don't think he's going to be able to survive for long.


HE CAN MAKE THE CLONE GO UNDERGROUND WITHOUT JIRAIYA NOTICING.

[Roka]

Last time I checked Deidara starts of fights with C1 and on the ground. He only started fighting Gaara in the air because he needed to cross the city and avoid all the other people.

Jiraiya only used Kage Bunshin to set a trap and has never shown the need to use it in any other situation. Why would he need to send a Kage Bunshin to check the area when he has LOS ?

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Last time I checked Deidara starts of fights with C1 and on the ground. He only started fighting Gaara in the air because he needed to cross the city and avoid all the other people.

I have never seen him in a fight using Tsuchi Bunshins like how you described.

Jiraiya only used Kage Bunshin to set a trap and has never shown the need to use it in any other situation.

Just like how Deidara did to trick Sasuke.

Why would he need to send a Kage Bunshin to check the area when he has LOS ?

Just to be safe seeing as the knowledge from a KB comes back to the user when it disperses.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

The detection barrier wouldn't help him detect C-4, that would make no sense. The detection barrier was stated to be a Ninjutsu which detects movement within its area of effect (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/05/). If it could detect C-4, wouldn't it also be able to detect pollen, insects, leaves, overwhelming your ability to concentrate.

And?

Basically what I meant.



Deidara can make clones and hide underground in front of a Byakugan and Sharingan with no arms from less than 100 metres away and yet you doubt he could make a clone Doton at 100metres without Jiraiya seeing it? Sure.

Is it Deidara's style to make clones like that?

He is a aerial fighter last I checked.

With that said I can just say Jiraiya makes a Kage Bunshin to check out the area first.

The clone plants the mines, Tobi done it in a quick time. Jiraiya comes forward whilst Deidara does what he does to start fights, C1 animals.


Jiraiya will deal with the C1 but with the mines around that he has no knowledge of and an exploding clone coming up beside him I don't think he's going to be able to survive for long.

I'm sure you forgot of certain tactics and jutsu.

HE CAN MAKE THE CLONE GO UNDERGROUND WITHOUT JIRAIYA NOTICING.

HE CAN MAKE KAGE BUNSHINS TO GO AND CHECK OUT THE AREA AND WILL SEE THROUGH DEIDARA'S PLAN.

See what I did there?

[Roka]

Jiraiya doesn't know about the knowledge transfer :zaru

If he did he would have taught Naruto it in the two years they were together. There goes his reason for using Kage Bunshin :zaru

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Jiraiya doesn't know about the knowledge transfer :zaru

Everyone who uses it knows about it except Naruto in Part I for some reason.

If he did he would have taught Naruto it in the two years they were together. There goes his reason for using Kage Bunshin :zaru

Now I believe he was just trying to teach him to be a powerhouse and trying to learn that jutsu.

Probably like Kakashi he assumed Naruto already knew that.

[-Maya-]

What, with god like charaters whose abilities have been stated literally to have no limits


The detection barrier wouldn't help him detect C-4, that would make no sense. The detection barrier was stated to be a Ninjutsu which detects movement within its area of effect (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/05/). If it could detect C-4, wouldn't it also be able to detect pollen, insects, leaves, overwhelming your ability to concentrate.

How does it detect movement though like the sharingan Predicts movement maybe

C4 is artificial to the enviroment and would contain human chakra

we frankly don't have enougth knowlegde to say that it wouldn't work

[Roka]

Everyone who uses it knows about it except Naruto in Part I for some reason.

Now I believe he was just trying to teach him to be a powerhouse and trying to learn that jutsu.

Probably like Kakashi he assumed Naruto already knew that.

How does everyone know about it? Jiraiya has never shown that he knows about it and taking a little time to teach Naruto about it hardly detracts from a 2 year training session. I think he would have taught him it as it's extremely valuable.

Jiraiya is far from a genius and Kakashi only realised about it in Part 2 whilst he was in hospital.

[TasteTheDifference]

How does it detect movement though like the sharingan Predicts movement maybe

C4 is artificial to the enviroment and would contain human chakra

we frankly don't have enougth knowlegde to say that it wouldn't work

The barrier doesn't detect chakra

Isn't the burden of proof on you to prove that it could work. It has only been stated to detect the movement of humans and other large objects

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

The barrier doesn't detect chakra

Isn't the burden of proof on you to prove that it could work. It has only been stated to detect the movement of humans and other large objects

Aren't the bombs just clay with chakra in them?

[TasteTheDifference]

Aren't the bombs just clay with chakra in them?

Not (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/361/05/), really (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/361/04/)

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Not (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/361/05/), really (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/361/04/)

OK, I'll re-read the fight just to make sure.

EDIT

Yeah they are basically small pieces of clay with Doton chakra. (http://online.saiyanisland.com/albums/361/14.jpg)