3's and 4's vs. Ghosts

[Cold]

:LOS This should be interesting.

3's and 4's: Current Galatea WITH sight restored, Audry, Ophelia, and Miata.

Ghosts: Current Clare, Miria, Helen, and Deneve with forbidden yoki release.

Battle ground: Pieta in the north.

Conditions for winning: Destroy team leader, or destroy all opponents. Galatea and Miria act as Team Leaders.

Additional info: Galatea and Ophelia just met Audry and Miata for the first time, Clarice has given Miata the go ahead to attack the Ghosts but is not actively in the battle and can't be targetted.

Discuss.

UPDATE: We're going to add some people in. Ghosts get Tabitha, Cynthia, and Yuma. 3's and 4's get Irene, Sophia, and Noel.
Miria remains Team Leader for the Ghosts, but Irene becomes Team Leader for the 3's and 4's. To keep things a bit balanced, 3's and 4's can't use more than 10% of their yoki release (eyes change color). Location changes to Rabona. Conditions of winning remain the same, kill or capture team leader or kill the entire team, whichever comes first.

[Byakuya]

Galatea stomps :ohpek

[Sin]

If the ghosts don't use Yoki at all, Galatea goes down like a brick. Even with her sight restored, for someone who relies so heavily on her ability, not being able to use it puts her at a huge disadvantage.

Miria can take Ophelia rather easily at this point, rippling sword would be no match for Miria's mirages.

Miata is the wildcard here, because she could probably take out Helen and Deneve. However, if those two double team and use the battleground to their advantage (as they're more familiar with it) they should be able to at least severely injure her.

Audrey will probably aid either Galatea or Ophelia. Whoever she aids will take a longer in defeating their opponents, Miria should definately handle the double team, as her mirages will make Gentle Sword useless, and she can still handle either Galatea or Opehlia on the side.

It all depends on how long Clare and Miria are stuck fighting the other three, and how well Helen and Deneve handle themselves against Miata.

If Clare and Miria take too long, and Miata wins, the Ghosts lose.

However, if either Clare or Miria manage to free themselves quickly, to aid in taking out Miata, they win.

Helen and Deneve are strong, but they're still not on the same plateau as Miata/Clare/Miria.

[Dr.Douchebag]

No yoki then galatea is in big trouble, I think miria can take her because she doesnt use yoki and is extremely fast however galatea is #3 for a reason I am sure she can handle miria to an extent especially if she herself uses yoki

I think audrey can take deneve because of her technique, but helen with her piercing attack and deneve might be a good counter because helen can pierce almost anything and maybe even audreys sword.

clare vs ophelia (windcutter and flash sword with no yoki) clare will do much better this time round I think with the 7 years training and her speed she can now counter rippling sword

That leaves the other 3 vs miata and I see miata winning this one.

but mine is just one type of matchup, clare wins hers, audrey might win and miata win hers and miria's is undecided for me

I can't really say :D:

Miata is a wildcard here

[Sin]

No yoki then galatea is in big trouble, I think miria can take her because she doesnt use yoki and is extremely fast however galatea is #3 for a reason I am sure she can handle miria to an extent especially if she herself uses yoki

I think audrey can take deneve because of her technique, but helen with her piercing attack and deneve might be a good counter because helen can pierce almost anything and maybe even audreys sword.

clare vs ophelia (windcutter and flash sword with no yoki) clare will do much better this time round I think with the 7 years training and her speed she can now counter rippling sword

That leaves the other 3 vs miata and I see miata winning this one.

but mine is just one type of matchup, clare wins hers, audrey might win and miata win hers and miria's is undecided for me

I can't really say :D:

Miata is a wildcard here
To me, IMO, it would be best for Clare to go against Galatea and for Miria to take Ophelia.

Ophelia's rippling sword might be too fluent for Clare's windcutter. However, Miria's mirage would null that.

Since Galatea doesn't have any specialized sword ability, windcutter would be most effective against her.

[Dr.Douchebag]

Well it just seemed that for rippling sword you need to cover your bases so to speak , miria's strength is her movement speed but keep in mind she cant use yoki so her speed would be like when she was #6 and ophelia is 2 ranks above her I think she has good enough reaction time to nullify miria's movement speed IMO ophelia wont be able to attack much but when she does it will land a hit on miria

[Sin]

Well it just seemed that for rippling sword you need to cover your bases so to speak , miria's strength is her movement speed but keep in mind she cant use yoki so her speed would be like when she was #6 and ophelia is 2 ranks above her I think she has good enough reaction time to nullify miria's movement speed IMO ophelia wont be able to attack much but when she does it will land a hit on miria
While the speed has dropped (and it's not necessarily a significant drop in speed, much like Clare going from Flash Sword to Windcutter), the movements are more fluid, and she has an infinite amount of movements.

The other benefit to the new mirage is that it's due to Miria's base speed being that much higher, which means, since it's a base-speed thing, her entire body has gained speed, not just her mirages (like back when she used Yoki), so her reaction and attack time will also be much higher than before.

I think we can all agree here that Miria is no longer anywhere near #6.

[blazingshadow]

how about we put more claymore in that list? add the other 3 ghosts on one team and add irene, sophia and noel (number's 3 and 4 in teresa's time) on the other.

[Cold]

I really thought you guys were going to favor the 3's and 4's :arg

Well, obviously there are various scenarios.

Here is how I see things playing out. First off, Miata would live up to the title of wild card by running wild. I see her being in RAWR :yell mode in this battle. She's not going to even think to assist her team mates nor her captain.

Miria won't go for a one-on-one situation. She'll take Deneve and lead an assault on Galatea. Miria's phantoms will push Galatea off guard and Deneve will exploit the openings. This is the plan anyway.

Galatea has a problem now, because she has to rely on sight to counter Miria's moves, amd she can't sense Deneve either. Audry will probably help out by trying to manipulate Deneve's movements. Actually, she can't. I just checked on this part, and Audry has to use her sword to touch what she wishes to manipulate. http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/69/17/ Check these pages going further for proof. This means that Audry's attack will be less effective against Deneve because she has to clash swords with her to be effective, so Deneve can focus a bit more on avoiding Audry's strikes and exploiting the openings Miria gives her. Audry won't be able to engage Miria because she won't know which phantom is the real Miria.

So at this point, things aren't looking good for Galatea's team. Clare will be tying Miata's time up. Miata will probably be using yoki, which Clare can read and use to her advantage. If Miata isn't using yoki then Clare is still good because she can fight evenly or better against Miria, who is probably faster than Miata, or at least more dangerous due to her phantoms. So, if Miata is using yoki, Clare will incapacitate her rather quickly. She won't speed blitz her or anything like that, but eventually Miata will make a tiny mistake that will lead to her arm or leg getting cut. From that injury she will slow down a bit, and Clare will strike some critical points using wind cutter.

Ophelia is fighting Helen, and doesn't have too much of a problem getting around Helen's stretchy arms, but is caught off guard once by the speed of Helen's drill sword once. She dodges the attack, but recognizes that it could have killed her. She notices Miata struggling against Clare and decides that as long as she keeps an eye out for a surprise drill sword she can and needs to help Miata. Before she goes, she notices that Clare is using the a technique that is similar to the flash sword. She remembers that Clare can also read yoki and rules a back attack out.

She also notices the situation Galatea is in, but due to the phantoms she can't effectively contribute to that battle either. She decides that battle doesn't favor her side too much, so she just decides to go all out and have some fun with Helen.

Eventually, Miria and Deneve wear Galatea down and capture her. Audry realizes the situation and concedes, Miata is out cold, and Clare helps Helen out with Ophelia.

Ghosts win mainly through team work and Miria's plan.

EDIT: That's a good idea Blazing Shadow. I think I'll edit it now.

[Sin]

I really thought you guys were going to favor the 3's and 4's :arg

Well, obviously there are various scenarios.

Here is how I see things playing out. First off, Miata would live up to the title of wild card by running wild. I see her being in RAWR :yell mode in this battle. She's not going to even think to assist her team mates nor her captain.

Miria won't go for a one-on-one situation. She'll take Deneve and lead an assault on Galatea. Miria's phantoms will push Galatea off guard and Deneve will exploit the openings. This is the plan anyway.

Galatea has a problem now, because she has to rely on sight to counter Miria's moves, amd she can't sense Deneve either. Audry will probably help out by trying to manipulate Deneve's movements. Actually, she can't. I just checked on this part, and Audry has to use her sword to touch what she wishes to manipulate. http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/69/17/ Check these pages going further for proof. This means that Audry's attack will be less effective against Deneve because she has to clash swords with her to be effective, so Deneve can focus a bit more on avoiding Audry's strikes and exploiting the openings Miria gives her. Audry won't be able to engage Miria because she won't know which phantom is the real Miria.

So at this point, things aren't looking good for Galatea's team. Clare will be tying Miata's time up. Miata will probably be using yoki, which Clare can read and use to her advantage. If Miata isn't using yoki then Clare is still good because she can fight evenly or better against Miria, who is probably faster than Miata, or at least more dangerous due to her phantoms. So, if Miata is using yoki, Clare will incapacitate her rather quickly. She won't speed blitz her or anything like that, but eventually Miata will make a tiny mistake that will lead to her arm or leg getting cut. From that injury she will slow down a bit, and Clare will strike some critical points using wind cutter.

Ophelia is fighting Helen, and doesn't have too much of a problem getting around Helen's stretchy arms, but is caught off guard once by the speed of Helen's drill sword once. She dodges the attack, but recognizes that it could have killed her. She notices Miata struggling against Clare and decides that as long as she keeps an eye out for a surprise drill sword she can and needs to help Miata. Before she goes, she notices that Clare is using the a technique that is similar to the flash sword. She remembers that Clare can also read yoki and rules a back attack out.

She also notices the situation Galatea is in, but due to the phantoms she can't effectively contribute to that battle either. She decides that battle doesn't favor her side too much, so she just decides to go all out and have some fun with Helen.

Eventually, Miria and Deneve wear Galatea down and capture her. Audry realizes the situation and concedes, Miata is out cold, and Clare helps Helen out with Ophelia.

Ghosts win mainly through team work and Miria's plan.

EDIT: That's a good idea Blazing Shadow. I think I'll edit it now.
You are underestimating Miata way too much IMO.

Also, with the addition of Irene, you've completely fucked the Ghosts over. You gave them former high numbers, and gave the Claymores 3 high ranking single digits.

While the Ghost Seven are all powerful, the fodder three are no where near the level of Irene/Sophia/Noel.

Org's Claymores rape.

[blazingshadow]

ghosts are ghosts for a reason. in straight combat they wouldn't win easily but they can win if they go at it covertly and take miata out first or separate her from the rest. it's a more interesting battle that way since one will be hiding while the other is searching which fit their role perfectly

[Sin]

ghosts are ghosts for a reason. in straight combat they wouldn't win easily but they can win if they go at it covertly and take miata out first or separate her from the rest. it's a more interesting battle that way since one will be hiding while the other is searching which fit their role perfectly
Ghosts are called Ghosts because they were thought to have died during the war in Pieta... It makes no reference to their fighting style at all o_O

[blazingshadow]

well sorry about that i was thinking more along the lines of starcraft but whatever. still it is their best way of battling

[Armando_arx_20]

If it's seven vs. seven. Obviously the Org's team would win without problems. The weakest warrior in the org's team is audrey or Noelle (i'm not too sure audrey could surpass noelle), and the weakest in ghosts are Yuma and Tabitha.
So:
Irene vs. Claire: undefined because Claire sensing abilities aren't like Teresa's, and her speed isn't like Irene's.
Miria vs. Galatea (or Ophelia, because Gala without youki manipulation is as strong as Ophelia, but taking in account numbers I put the lowest number against Miria) MIRIA injured WINNER.
Ophelia vs. Deneve: OPHELIA OUTCLASSES DENEVE.
Miata vs. Helen: Miata OUTCLASSES HELEN.
SOphia vs. Cynthia. I think Sophia could have some problems fighting her, but I don't see Cynthia winning. SOPHIA
Noelle vs. Tabitha: Tabitha has her sensing, but Noelle is very fast and has her agility. NOELLE
Audrey vs. Yuma. Well, the result here is obvious, Yuma outclasses Urinator Audrey with her Yuma punch.

Even if Claire or Tabitha wins her match, they will be very injuried and they wouldn't be enough to defeat the others.

Now if OPhe, Gala, Audrey and Miata vs. Deneve, Miria, Claire and Helen:
Galatea vs. Claire--CLAIRE with some problems.
Miria vs. Ophelia--I'm not very sure, if Miria wins she'll be very injuried.
Deneve vs. Miata--MIATA without many problems.
Helen vs. Audrey--AUDREY with 40% of damage.
SO after that, if Miata waits until the others end their fights:
Claire with 20% of damage, Miria with 80% of damage vs. Miata with 20% of damage and Audrey with 40%. of damage.

Claire could take Miata, at the end, she will be 50% of damage.
Audrey could win against Miria and 70% of damage.
At the end: Claire could win against Audrey without problems.

[Sci-Fi]

Well...Ophelia is the real wild card. She'll take out friend and foe if they get in her range/way. Just like when she was waiting for Clare to show up. Fought her and Raki, then used Raki as bait to distract the AB so Clare would have to rescue him while she watched. Was going to chase Clare and Raki down, but the AB caught her and Ophelia had to take her out before chasing after Clare.

Half the 3's and 4's might be dead before they fought the Ghost 7....lol...or they would have to team up and take Ophelia out first.

[Dr.Douchebag]

While the speed has dropped (and it's not necessarily a significant drop in speed, much like Clare going from Flash Sword to Windcutter), the movements are more fluid, and she has an infinite amount of movements.

The other benefit to the new mirage is that it's due to Miria's base speed being that much higher, which means, since it's a base-speed thing, her entire body has gained speed, not just her mirages (like back when she used Yoki), so her reaction and attack time will also be much higher than before.

I think we can all agree here that Miria is no longer anywhere near #6.

Indeed she is much higher than #6 but she cant use yoki here so like I said her speed would be like when she was #6 , and her base body has gained speed but it still puts her on par with when she used yoki as #6, reaction time and all.

[Mat®icha]

i go with ghosts. they're too strong to be delt with.

[Cold]

You are underestimating Miata way too much IMO.

Also, with the addition of Irene, you've completely fucked the Ghosts over. You gave them former high numbers, and gave the Claymores 3 high ranking single digits.

While the Ghost Seven are all powerful, the fodder three are no where near the level of Irene/Sophia/Noel.

Org's Claymores rape.

I'm not so sure about that actually.

While 3's and 4's are most likely more powerful overall, the Ghosts have better special abilities. Take Deneve for example, and this is assuming she can do this without yoki, but http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/54/05/ her regeneration is to the point that attacks like that don't even faze her. Compare to Irene (admittedly an offensive type) when she gets slashed by Teresa http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/21/28/.

Helen's extending arms would make for good surprise attacks. For example, she could launch it past the enemy she's facing and strike an enemy in the back. Or she could use that around the back trick that Priscilla did to cut Teresa. Under Miria's leadership those attacks could be put to good use.

There is also the possibility of taking advantage of the surroundings. The advantage that the Ghosts have is that they can't be sensed. So, if someone gets injured and needs to be healed, they may be able to create a distraction (maybe knock down a wall) and escape from sight for a little while. This may allow Cynthia some time to help heal the injured, or herself if she is injured. Having someone that can heal others goes a long way, as any injuries sustained by 4 of the 7 on Irene's team will last the entire battle.

Last thing to point out is, the Ghosts have been under Miria's leadership for 7 years, while Irene's team is comprised of warriors from three different generations. They may have more power, but they definitely won't have team work on par with the Ghosts. This is clearly still an uphill battle for the Ghosts, but they've likely had nothing but uphill battles in the North.

So, to conclude:
Teamwork: Ghosts take this easily. In a team, Miria is said to perform better than the #1, and she's had a team for seven years. 3's and 4's won't have any strategies or plans that all of them understand, even though Irene is a great leader.

Special abilities: Ghosts take it again. Helen's got the attack with the longest range and the drill sword, Deneve's got super regeneration, Miria's got her phantoms, Cynthia can heal her comrades who aren't defensive types, Clare's got the wind cutter and yoki reading abilities. Irene has her flash sword, Ophelia has rippling sword, Galatea has yoki manipulation but it's useless here, Audry has her gentle sword, and the other three don't really have special abilities.

Strength and speed: Easily favors the 3's and 4's, especially since they can release some yoki. It doesn't help that the three of the Ghosts warriors are likely outmatched by the bottom three of the 3's and 4's. Hopefully after seven years of training it isn't to the extent that the bottom three of the 3's and 4's can treat the bottom three of the Ghosts like Irene did to Ophelia.

Ghosts have advantages in two of the three major categories. It all depends on how well Miria can lead her team and how familiar the Ghosts are with fighting together. If the situation falls to 1-1 match-ups the Ghosts likely lose.

[blazingshadow]

the battlefield is better known by the ghosts and they have made traps before when they fought the awakened beings. pieta has plenty of places to hide and do hit and run tactics on the other team. sure, irene (she should be the team leader now) wouldn't be caught completely off guard by miria's schemes but she only has 1 claymore that can track the ghosts while they are not healing (i'm assuming that ghosts still use some yoki to heal but is supressed back by cynthia) and she can't prepare for everything.

in short:
the ghosts have too much advantage by having miria and a battlefield that the ghosts can exploit.

[Sin]

I'm not so sure about that actually.

While 3's and 4's are most likely more powerful overall, the Ghosts have better special abilities. Take Deneve for example, and this is assuming she can do this without yoki, but http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/54/05/ her regeneration is to the point that attacks like that don't even faze her. Compare to Irene (admittedly an offensive type) when she gets slashed by Teresa http://www.onemanga.com/Claymore/21/28/.

Helen's extending arms would make for good surprise attacks. For example, she could launch it past the enemy she's facing and strike an enemy in the back. Or she could use that around the back trick that Priscilla did to cut Teresa. Under Miria's leadership those attacks could be put to good use.

There is also the possibility of taking advantage of the surroundings. The advantage that the Ghosts have is that they can't be sensed. So, if someone gets injured and needs to be healed, they may be able to create a distraction (maybe knock down a wall) and escape from sight for a little while. This may allow Cynthia some time to help heal the injured, or herself if she is injured. Having someone that can heal others goes a long way, as any injuries sustained by 4 of the 7 on Irene's team will last the entire battle.

Last thing to point out is, the Ghosts have been under Miria's leadership for 7 years, while Irene's team is comprised of warriors from three different generations. They may have more power, but they definitely won't have team work on par with the Ghosts. This is clearly still an uphill battle for the Ghosts, but they've likely had nothing but uphill battles in the North.

So, to conclude:
Teamwork: Ghosts take this easily. In a team, Miria is said to perform better than the #1, and she's had a team for seven years. 3's and 4's won't have any strategies or plans that all of them understand, even though Irene is a great leader.

Special abilities: Ghosts take it again. Helen's got the attack with the longest range and the drill sword, Deneve's got super regeneration, Miria's got her phantoms, Cynthia can heal her comrades who aren't defensive types, Clare's got the wind cutter and yoki reading abilities. Irene has her flash sword, Ophelia has rippling sword, Galatea has yoki manipulation but it's useless here, Audry has her gentle sword, and the other three don't really have special abilities.

Strength and speed: Easily favors the 3's and 4's, especially since they can release some yoki. It doesn't help that the three of the Ghosts warriors are likely outmatched by the bottom three of the 3's and 4's. Hopefully after seven years of training it isn't to the extent that the bottom three of the 3's and 4's can treat the bottom three of the Ghosts like Irene did to Ophelia.

Ghosts have advantages in two of the three major categories. It all depends on how well Miria can lead her team and how familiar the Ghosts are with fighting together. If the situation falls to 1-1 match-ups the Ghosts likely lose.
I'm almost 100% sure that both Deneve's and Helen's abilities require Yoki.