Christian Atheists

[PDQ]

I'm not big on making more topics on religion on this forum, but I didn't know where else to put it.

I was reading an article about them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheists
and someone mentioned it in one of the atheist threads.
I wanted some personal opinions and more discussion about them or from them. Are there any on this board?

From a nomenclature standpoint, what is fundamentally necessary to be "Christian"? Simply believing Jesus was a real person? Believing he was a real person who did good things? Following his example? I'm asking because a lot of Christians I know say Christianity isn't a religion but a "relationship with God", but if god is out of the equation, what is left?

[SeventhDan]

what is fundamentally necessary to be "Christian"?

Discipline.

[Diceman]

OT,I think there were Muslim atheists too.

[Juno]

I'm not big on making more topics on religion on this forum, but I didn't know where else to put it.

I was reading an article about them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheists
and someone mentioned it in one of the atheist threads.
I wanted some personal opinions and more discussion about them or from them. Are there any on this board?

From a nomenclature standpoint, what is fundamentally necessary to be "Christian"? Simply believing Jesus was a real person? Believing he was a real person who did good things? Following his example? I'm asking because a lot of Christians I know say Christianity isn't a religion but a "relationship with God", but if god is out of the equation, what is left?

Not really christianity is it, if you reject Jesus's teachings, the primary of which was 'Dad totally exists'. When you remove the divinity there's so little left that why even bother calling your religion 'Christianity'? Form an entirely new non-theistic religion since you apparently want to reject the defining tenets of Christian dogma in favour of following the generic 'how to live your life' guide that every religion has and is virtually interchangeable.

These just seem to be an irritating sect of atheists who are too afraid to stand on their own two feet that they have to cling to whatever their can salvage from the remains of their former religion.

[batanga]

They're just atheists... another unnecessary label.

[ZeroBlack]

How in the world is there a Christian Atheist? It's like a double negative. Christianity is a monotheistic religion, and Atheism is a a 0 theism philosophy. They can't be mixed...at all in fact.

[PDQ]

How in the world is there a Christian Atheist? It's like a double negative. Christianity is a monotheistic religion, and Atheism is a a 0 theism philosophy. They can't be mixed...at all in fact.

I guess it's because "Christianity" has the word Christ in it, which generally refers to Jesus(technically since Christ means savior, I think it should be called Jesusism), but basically it's just the following of Christ as a person in ethics rather than the divine.
Jesus, although not seen as divine, is still a central feature of Christian Atheism. Most Christian Atheists think of Jesus as a good man and accept his moral teachings, but they reject the idea of his divinity. Hamilton said that to the Christian Atheist, Jesus is not really the foundation of faith; instead he is a “place to be, a standpoint” [5]. Christian Atheists look to Jesus as an example of what a Christian should be, but they do not see him as a God.

Although as Seabear pointed out, that's really not significantly more than the ethical teachings of any other religion. Most atheistic religions tend to go a step further and point out a doctrine that isn't the boilerplate religious ethic.

[~Zaxxon~]

but if god is out of the equation, what is left?

Mearly stories with morals that can be interpreted differently from person to person.

That's how I see it.

[PDQ]

Mearly stories with morals that can be interpreted differently from person to person.

That's how I see it.

So like Aesop's fables? I suppose so, but would that make people who follow those moral tales as Aesopians?

[~Zaxxon~]

So like Aesop's fables? I suppose so, but would that make people who follow those moral tales as Aesopians?

Give them whatever label you want, they're still people.


Personally, I don't care. XD

[impersonal]

"Well, I don't believe in God but... I'm still one of us, right? I'm a Christian. Right? RIGHT?"


denial !

[T4R0K]

"Well, I don't believe in God but... I'm still one of us, right? I'm a Christian. Right? RIGHT?"


denial !

It's like being the kid who hasn't anything in common with other kids in a club, but still wants in. Beware, it's forbidden to "Homers" (Simpson)

OT,I think there were Muslim atheists too.

I got a dad's cousin like that... No, worse : he's a muslim communist titist (follower of Tito, not tits) atheist.

[Jin-E]

For me at least, being a Christian involves following Jesus teachings. And Jesus clearly didnt advocate atheism.

The only way i can think of the term making any sense is if these people viewed Jesus & other prominent religious figures in a positive light. They can thus identify themself with some of Jesus teachings, which, as he says, are from God. ( F.example Sermon of the mount, him being kind and forgiving to children, sinners etc) but reject the claimed supernatural or divine origin behind those teachings.

Assuming this is correct, that would probably mean that they would view his teachings as a moral edict from some ancient wise man, but disregard the Bible's claims about his teachings being from God and himself being God's son. I think it would be a huge stretch to claim adherence to a religion when you eliminate God, the centerpiece of that monotheistic religion.

[wiggely]

i could have sworn i posted a thread in the cafe a week ago, where governments are blaming wikipedia for lower grades and test results.

sign, i guesse i see the cycle continue

side note: really? i mean REALLY? come on now. don't you know what "christ" means.

[alizah]

I don't find it hard to believe that there are atheist Christians.

I myself am an atheist Jew (Judaism, of course also being a monotheistic religion). For atheist Jews, it's about ethics and culture; I'm sure it's similar for atheist Christians. :zaru

[Pilot]

an oxymoron

[GrimaH]

an oxymoron

Not really.
It's a stretch, but it's possible to be Christian and atheist.
Of course, much depends on how one defines a Christian, and I suspect that in this area No True Scotsman is going to render almost everything invalid.

[impersonal]

I got a dad's cousin like that... No, worse : he's a muslim communist titist (follower of Tito, not tits) atheist.

Next time an englishman asks me my political affiliation I'm going to say "titist" :p

Not really.
Uh, yes, really. An oxymoron denotes a contradiction, not necessarily an impossibility.

[PDQ]

I don't find it hard to believe that there are atheist Christians.

I myself am an atheist Jew (Judaism, of course also being a monotheistic religion). For atheist Jews, it's about ethics and culture; I'm sure it's similar for atheist Christians. :zaru
But Judaism refers to a culture and Jews an ethnic group as well as a monotheistic religion and practitioners of that religion.
That's why there's Humanistic Judaism
Germany(among other groups but that's the first that comes to mind) considered Jews a race.
If I'm not mistaken the "Jewish identity" is passed down through the mother right?

Whether or not that applies to Christians is questionable. "Christian" really isn't considered an ethnicity to my knowledge(although I didn't know Jewish was an ethnicity until I was in my late teens so I could be wrong)
I did find a similar article on the subject with respect to atheist muslims:
http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/02/26/atheist-muslim-is-islam-both-a-culture-and-a-religion.htm
Although I think what is called "Muslim culture" probably is more considered the Arab culture(as Indonesian countries don't have the same culture).


Uh, yes, really. An oxymoron denotes a contradiction, not necessarily an impossibility.
It's more paradoxical than contradictory. A paradox can be something that seems like it can't happen. A contradiction implies impossibility(hence why there's proof by contradiction)

[GrimaH]

Yea, I mistook the meaning of the word. Apologies.

[alizah]

If I'm not mistaken the "Jewish identity" is passed down through the mother right?

Only Orthodox Jews believe that. Most liberal Jewish movements believe that it's entirely up to the individual whether they identify as Jewish or not.

But Judaism refers to a culture and Jews an ethnic group as well as a monotheistic religion and practitioners of that religion.
That's why there's Humanistic Judaism
Germany(among other groups but that's the first that comes to mind) considered Jews a race.


Judaism is technically both a religion and a race, sometimes overlapping. The same can't be applied to Christians, although most Christians today did not originate from the Middle Eastern/Mediterranean region where the religion originated, but rather originate from different cultures and were later converted. Since Judaism never actively tried to convert people, the religion has smaller numbers, but a higher percentage of people who are ethnically Jewish.

However atheist Christians can still identify with the teachings of their religion, without necessarily believing in God. I find this no more impossible or ridiculous than reform sects of religions choosing not to believe in some portions of the Bible (i.e. homosexuality being a sin, supernatural phenomenon ).

[PDQ]

However atheist Christians can still identify with the teachings of their religion, without necessarily believing in God. I find this no more impossible or ridiculous than reform sects of religions choosing not to believe in some portions of the Bible (i.e. homosexuality being a sin, supernatural phenomenon ).
True, but usually "God" is one of those "fundamentals" that's considered constant.

While it might not be impossible, I think it's generally considered the most ridiculous reformation. I mean, I find it to be a personal improvement, but usually no matter how much different sects of Christianity disagree, they all share the same core, "a relationship with God"
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/Religion-Comparison.htm
I mean, beyond that, all the rest seems to be considered just details.
Without "God", the teaching becomes "a relationship"

Thanks for the details on Judaism though, I wasn't really aware of all that.