Battle of the Ultimates! Chars from anime vs chars from comics (DC, Marvel, etc)

[Sabaku no Ira]

Which side will you vote on? On the anime side we have crazily strong chars such as SSJs, but on the comic side we have people like Superman etc. And taking into the account of strategist-type characters giving tactical orders to strong chars, who will rule supreme in this War of the Worlds?

[Gooba]

1 Comic book Cosmic character>All Anime combined.

[Sabaku no Ira]

Even DragonBall Z?

[Jeltz]

Yes, even DBZ and quite easily too. But comic cosmics might have trouble with some gods in manga universes. Still vote for comic universes since they have quite many cosmics and some of those are pretty much allpowerful.

[Gooba]

Even DragonBall Z?Cosmics are as far beyond DBZ as DBZ is beyond regular humans.

[Supreme-Shinobi]

what u talkin? dbz characters can blow up a planet with their finger. I like to see superman take a shot at that!

[Shinigami No1]

err...no anime = DBZ = 2SSJ 4s, 1SSJ 2, an 3SSJs plus all the fusion crap you could get SSJ 4 Gogeta and SSJ3 Gotenks using the earrings to fuse into some insane beast that would pwn anything.
Also Im pretty sure most of the cosmics have been defeated within their comics at some point by some magic energy drainin crystal or a illness or the 'combined teamwork' of like the xmen or the justice league lol so what chance do they stand against ALL the DBZ people Cos the dragon fights as well an he is a god an goku defeated him lol.
I def give this to DBZ an taking into account the other animes such as gundam and naruto who would blatantly be able to knock off people like spider man comics an the x-men comics (all series gundams > sentinels x 1million). Also does akira count?? Cos with a lil control he could pwn most especially all the peeps in comics with psychic powers lol...

Anyway thats all...

[Gooba]

what u talkin? dbz characters can blow up a planet with their finger. I like to see superman take a shot at that!He has, and far worse, and Superman is an ant compared to the Cosmics.

Here is how the fight will go:

1 Cosmic character out of the 20 or so thinks anime out of existance.
Comic book characters have a dance party.
The Flash hits on Rogue and gets himself pwned by her powers.
Lobo gets drunk and makes a mess of the bar.
Wolverine smokes a cigar.
Prof X can't dance, so he is sad.
Spiderman breakdances like mad, and impresses everyone.
More dancing all around.
Lots of drinking.
They pass out.
Wake up in the morning remembering nothing.

[Shinigami No1]

Gooba i hope your not insinuating that superman is anywhere near the strength of the elite (goku vegeta etc) chars in DBZ. Please i really hope your not. He would get it so bad people in this forum want some no DBZ chars vs Non DBZ chars battles...
I dont know everything about superman but i know most about DBZ an at the end of GT goku could blow up galaxies its jus that the pwoer got so disproportionate they couldnt show it cos it would be a bit pointless if everytime he an the enemy clashed the planet they were on exploded lol...

[Delta Shell]

*sigh*

It doesn't have to be Superman you know..Read the part of his post where it says "Superman is an ant compared to the Cosmics".

The fact of the matter is, that there are comic book characters out there that can simply end an entire universe (since these comic book worlds all operate in multiverses and whatnot) because they felt like it.

[Gooba]

Gooba i hope your not insinuating that superman is anywhere near the strength of the elite (goku vegeta etc) chars in DBZ. Please i really hope your not.Superman>DBZ, but not GT.

[Sabaku no Ira]

Um... actually, how powerful are the "Cosmics"? Where can I find info about them?

[Gooba]

Um... actually, how powerful are the "Cosmics"? Where can I find info about them?http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=34605
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=33281
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=28609
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=27071
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/l/livingtribunal.htm
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/

That last one needs you to put the first letter of the Marvel character you want to look up. There are lists of Cosmics in those threads, if you scroll through the threads fast you can find them. Basicly, these guys are universe ending powerful, and they are actually immortal. A fight between DBZ and these guys would look the same as DBZ vs the Christian God.

[CrazyMoronX]

Yeah we all should have learned by now that Marvel, DC, etc cosmic beings beat anyone anytime from any anime without trying.... Except Alucard, he can't die! WAHHHH!!!! Oh wait DC has prep time Batman, who, with enough prep time, can defeat 1,000,000,000 immortal Angels.

[Arilou]

Exactly.

Though animé seems to have their own "cosmic beings" (IE: people capable of re-writing reality) people like Kamina Ayato at the end of RahXephon, or Lain Iwakura :)

[Literally Exaggerated]

Comics. with no trouble.

[Raistlin-sama]

Have any of you seen/read ALL manga/anime out there?

If not, you can't say that the cosmic characters wil pwn them, since you don't know the strength of the other side

But i am willing to say that they can win against all anime characters (maybe except immortal gods, and so on) i have seen, becoarse of the way you descibe them, they do sound rather god-like...

[korican04]

Comics with no trouble, dbz isn't even in this, they can blow up planets big whoop.
Imperiex someone who's not even at the extreme top of the scope of powerhouses in comics wipes out galaxies and even universes.
The question is can the godly figures of the anime worlds survive an onslaught of the comic cosmics. I mean if they can survive being wiped from existance then maybe.
The silver surfer can wipe out everyone in dbz by himself and he's not even in this competition.
The extreme characters in comics are stupidly ridiculous, more ridiculous than dbz, even if you don't want to believe it.

The issue with people in dbz like the sayins, is that they are powerhouses, they have power strength speed, but that's it. But people like SS have power, strength, speed, and on top of that the ability to rearange atoms and s**t, and can also drain stars plus other crap.

Goku in a straight up fight, no rearanging molecules and stuff like that can fight galactus to a stand still, but with all that power he still can't survive in space or prevent someone like the spectre from erasing him.

[Arilou]

becoarse of the way you descibe them, they do sound rather god-like...

Which is sort of the point, they are the Gods of their respective realities.

[Havoc]

Comic cosmics win this.

[Raistlin-sama]

Ok then if cosmics = gods

I'll say that this is just gonna be a long never-ending battle between them (and whatever other comic-book gods there is) and the gods of manga/anime universes.
Since they are both immortal none of them is ever gonna win...

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Since they are both immortal none of them is ever gonna win..

Theres a Difference from being Immortal and being Omnipotent. Plz read the links provided.

[hjkou]

all comic-related vs threads end up in "cosmics win" or "oh no but batman has prep time"

can we sticky a thread notifying members of this?

[Gooba]

all comic-related vs threads end up in "cosmics win" or "oh no but batman has prep time"

can we sticky a thread notifying members of this?Funny, I was just about to post in the current comic book sticky that same thing. Something like "There should be a no Cosmics vs non-Cosmics rule." Christian/Jewish/Whatever God>Cosmics>Elite non-Cosmic Comics>DBZ>*

[Arilou]

Problem is when you start to get borderline. Silver Surfer, Thanos of Titan, Darkseid, even Superman can be considered cosmic.

[RaitoRyuukashin]

Problem is when you start to get borderline. Silver Surfer, Thanos of Titan, Darkseid, even Superman can be considered cosmic.

That falls into elite non-cosmic comics

[Literally Exaggerated]

Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet is most definitely cosmic though.

But yeah, the heirarchy goes something like this:

Batman with prep time
Judeo-Christian God
Cosmic Comics
Elite NonCosmic (I'm talking Silver Surfer, Superman Prime or Saint of Killers types, not Superman types)
DBZ and Ultrapowerful nonelites
Powerful Superheroes
Mid-level Superheroes/Most anime
Weak Superheroes/Weak anime

[junidaime]

Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet is most definitely cosmic though.

But yeah, the heirarchy goes something like this:

Batman with prep time
Judeo-Christian God
Cosmic Comics
Elite NonCosmic (I'm talking Silver Surfer, Superman Prime or Saint of Killers types, not Superman types)
DBZ and Ultrapowerful nonelites
Powerful Superheroes
Mid-level Superheroes/Most anime
Weak Superheroes/Weak anime



Actually its more like this....
Judeo-Christian God with prep time
Black Gai
Batman with prep time
Judeo-Christian God
Cosmic Comics
Elite NonCosmic (I'm talking Silver Surfer, Superman Prime or Saint of Killers types, not Superman types)
DBZ and Ultrapowerful nonelites
Powerful Superheroes
Mid-level Superheroes/Most anime
Weak Superheroes/Weak anime



:nuts

[Potentialflip]

I don't know its hard to say. Cause there are immortals in the comic universe and there are immortals in the anime universe. If you specify, which you did not. It is a little hard to judge in my opinion. Cause we will have to go all through the anime characters and all the comic characters.

[Arilou]

Take Eternity as an example, he's the Embodiment of everything in the universe. Pretty spiffy eh?

[Bobku]

oh god not this again

the amount of superman vs goku threads....its unreal

[kAulART]

Gaara will own them all, just wait :D

[Bobku]

also r we talkin about(in DC) before or after crisis?

[Bobku]

also r we talkin about(in DC) before or after crisis?

man this is an impossible question

cos u got molecule man in marvel, he can control atoms!!!
then obviously goku, who can move faster(like 1000x light) than a thought(speed of light)
then before crisis superman whos invincible

and millions of others



EDIT: sorry for double post i was supposed to edit not quote the previous

[itachiunleashed]

lol what bout alucard haha its great how we put all the people that cant die against eachother. it be a endless battle

[Sabaku no Ira]

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=34605
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=33281
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=28609
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=27071
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/l/livingtribunal.htm
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/

That last one needs you to put the first letter of the Marvel character you want to look up. There are lists of Cosmics in those threads, if you scroll through the threads fast you can find them. Basicly, these guys are universe ending powerful, and they are actually immortal. A fight between DBZ and these guys would look the same as DBZ vs the Christian God.

Gee, thanks. Gooba. Now I can start my little research... :)

[Kamendex]

This board has made me ashamed of being a Dragonball fan...

[vagnard]

1 Comic book Cosmic character>All Anime combined.

Not Idea of Evil from Berserk

Not Godhand from Berserk

Not the Choushins from Tenchi Muyo

Not Tenchi Masaki from Tenchi Muyo

[Raistlin-sama]

Since i doubt any of us know all anime/manga and all comics. We can actually never find out, since we dont know all characters...

[Final Ultima]

This board has made me ashamed of being a Dragonball fan...In the sense that Dragonball isn't as high up on the power hierarchy as people like to think, or in the sense that misinformed Dragonball fans tend to be stubborn and incur the appearance of anti-Dragonball fans?

Since i doubt any of us know all anime/manga and all comics. We can actually never find out, since we dont know all characters...I don't think it really matters...

...seeing as, you know, I can't imagine any of them being better than omnipotent or anything. Seriously, in a match like this, if you don't have at least some manipulation over reality, you're nothing.

[Raistlin-sama]

...seeing as, you know, I can't imagine any of them being better than omnipotent or anything. Seriously, in a match like this, if you don't have at least some manipulation over reality, you're nothing.

The thing is you don't know... Your most likeley right ofcurse. But seeing as none of us know, you can't make the assumpation, that noone have a power that goes beyond that.

[Final Ultima]

I don't think you quite get it. Omnipotency means all powerful, complete and absolute control over everything, able to change, bend or break reality with a single thought. How do you improve upon being able to do anything?

[Sabaku no Ira]

Hum... actually I was thinking about creating out of nothing. Even with "control" you still need things to work with (reality, matter, energy, etc). So a more powerful being would be able to create all that from nothing (and I do mean NOTHING, not even space and time) with a single thought. But the only entity that can do that, as far as I know, is God.

[Raistlin-sama]

.........
Ok I admit, you can't improve on it, but as I said, we still don't know all anime characters, so we don't know if any of them have the same power.

Most likeley noone have, but the possibility is there, which is why I don't think, you can just say the cosmics win without first knowing all anime.

But since the chance of such characters exsisting, isn't really that high, i'd say the cosmics have about 90% chance of winning.

[Final Ultima]

Hum... actually I was thinking about creating out of nothing. Even with "control" you still need things to work with (reality, matter, energy, etc). So a more powerful being would be able to create all that from nothing (and I do mean NOTHING, not even space and time) with a single thought. But the only entity that can do that, as far as I know, is God.I'm pretty sure omnipotent characters are able to do that too.

[Sabaku no Ira]

Really? Well, I don't know since I don't read comics very often (the only one I've really read was the Apocalypse World from X-men, which is awesome).

[hjkou]

wow.. superman and batman dont seem as gay anymore after you compare them to cosmics.
correctomundo?

[vagnard]

I don't think you quite get it. Omnipotency means all powerful, complete and absolute control over everything, able to change, bend or break reality with a single thought. How do you improve upon being able to do anything?

Yes...but the point is that beings actually exists in the anime. You have many animes like Tenchi Muyo or Berserk with omnipotent gods at the same level of Living Tribunal or Spectre.

The Omnipotency isn't intellectual property of Dc and Marvel

[Final Ultima]

I'm aware of that, but you see, having an omnipotent character still insures that said side won't lose. Seeing as there's nothing above that, the best one could hope for is a draw. I just don't like people saying that anime characters would win despite this.

[Raistlin-sama]

I never said anime characters would win, I just said that the comic characters wouldn't neccesarily win, since most people seems to think so.

But I believe in a draw as well, so no reason to argue, when we agree anyways...

[Kamendex]

In the sense that Dragonball isn't as high up on the power hierarchy as people like to think, or in the sense that misinformed Dragonball fans tend to be stubborn and incur the appearance of anti-Dragonball fans?


A little bit of both. I think their stubborness leads to their thinking of Dragonball being so strong...

[Final Ultima]

Aye. Although truth be told, it's sometimes more difficult to argue about which character is stronger than the other when they're both within the Dragonball universe than when only one of them is.

Filler feeds Goku fanboys.

[wolfman_120]

As much as I hate to say it, The comics would win. They have Superman who is the strongest and cheapest hero of all. Who else can fly at the speed of light and turn back time? But then there is all the other heros with him Kryptonite won't do anything since anyone of the other Comics could send the guy with it to hell

*Sigh*

Anime will lose...

[Pickens]

Wizard did Superman VS Goku, Goku won ='/ They Did Tetsuo VS Pheonix, Pheonix won, they did Spider-Man VS Vash (totally random) it tied. But yes, Captian Marvel (Marvel Captian Marvel) could beast all of anime by himslef.......much less anybody who's stronger than him.....

[Final Ultima]

Wizard did Superman VS Goku, Goku won ='/Heh, I saw a crossover strip myself (it's likely to just be a fan comic though), but Superman won and refused to kill Goku.

[Insipidipity]

I think Mr. Manhattan could take at least half of all anime. Then if we include cosmics, you guys do know "The Creator"(aka God of the Marvel Multiverse above the Beyonder and Living Tribunal) and "The One Above All"(aka God of DC comics, above spectre, etc) together would THINK all of anime out of existence.

[vagnard]

I think Mr. Manhattan could take at least half of all anime. Then if we include cosmics, you guys do know "The Creator"(aka God of the Marvel Multiverse above the Beyonder and Living Tribunal) and "The One Above All"(aka God of DC comics, above spectre, etc) together would THINK all of anime out of existence.

Then a mangaka would create a "Super Creator ssj2" that can defeat the creator...seriously...in fiction there are no limits. I can even made "Pepe, the Godslayer"...a character beyond the The Creator and set a specific phrase that made him invincible until another person creates "Super Pepe" and destroy my creation.

Marvel Gods aren't omnipotent....if you are omnipotent you are able to do anything. But are you able to defeat another omnipotent being?....if you can't you aren't omnipotent because you aren't able to do anything...a paradox....One universe can have one omnipotent being at the same time. Two omnipotent beings contradict the root of the word

[korican04]

I think Mr. Manhattan could take at least half of all anime. Then if we include cosmics, you guys do know "The Creator"(aka God of the Marvel Multiverse above the Beyonder and Living Tribunal) and "The One Above All"(aka God of DC comics, above spectre, etc) together would THINK all of anime out of existence.
The one above all is for marvel.

[Insipidipity]

The one above all is for marvel.
Damn you're right...actually I think both DC and Marvel refer to the same God...In marvel he's mentioned more as a figure who's above the beyonder/Living tribunal, in DC, I think its more of a religious thing. So in essence, I think they're both referring to the same God, thus noone can be created higher since there is no contradiction and thus they'd win.

[Ssj3_Goku]

i would like to see itachi get a comic guy in a genjetsu and kill him with MS or one of his other kick ass eye jutsu's.

[lucky]

1 Comic book Cosmic character>All Anime combined.

i know this is kinda played0ut, but do you mean Batman with preptime? :P

Yes -Gooba

[Putschi]

Dark Schneider pwns them all.

BTW don't forget Anime or Manga cosmics like the God hand from berserk (well, they aren't that uber but they are cosmics)
Ah almost forgot to mention Cyborg Kuro-Chan.XD

[Sabaku no Ira]

Marvel Gods aren't omnipotent....if you are omnipotent you are able to do anything. But are you able to defeat another omnipotent being?....if you can't you aren't omnipotent because you aren't able to do anything...a paradox....One universe can have one omnipotent being at the same time. Two omnipotent beings contradict the root of the word

Not really, an omnipotent being CAN defeat another onmipotent being when the other omnipotent being allows himself/herself to be beaten. :laugh

[Putschi]

Not really, an omnipotent being CAN defeat another onmipotent being when the other omnipotent being allows himself/herself to be beaten. :laugh

That may be right but such a fight would be stupid.

"I use my uberlaser to kill you. It can kill anything"
"Yeah, sure it can, dude. But I don't want to lose today so you can't defeat me"
...omnipotent beings are lame. They are like me in every game possible XD

[Jeltz]

Dark Schneider pwns them all.

BTW don't forget Anime or Manga cosmics like the God hand from berserk (well, they aren't that uber but they are cosmics)
Ah almost forgot to mention Cyborg Kuro-Chan.XD

Nah, those are all slightly below the cosmics in my oppinion. But there should be some gods in manga that are omniponent or close to it.

[Zoro]

That may be right but such a fight would be stupid.

"I use my uberlaser to kill you. It can kill anything"
"Yeah, sure it can, dude. But I don't want to lose today so you can't defeat me"
...omnipotent beings are lame. They are like me in every game possible XD
Yes you are so right,in this.That cosmics thing is lame it does not matter the power level but the story,fun,humour emotion...

[Lucifer]

Skull Knight pwned all characters. he live in 1000+ years... Emperor of GAISERIC!!!
Gaiseric already killed billion peoples...
Skull Knight will defeat 5 God Hands

Anime/Manga >>> Marvel >>> DC

my favorite is STRONGEST CHARACTERS!!!

-Skull Knight
-Void
-Slann
-Uber
-Femto
-Conrad
-Ganishka
-Dark Schiender
-Tetsuo (Akira)
-Nosferatu Alucard
-Legato Bluesummers

[monk3]

as much as i love anime to the extent of anything. i'd say Comic characters. i mean, they have a man that they call a man of steel. In Marvel they have the X-men and they have The Avengers. I mean, i'm all for anime but, i'd go with comic characters.

[Quoll]

Skull Knight pwned all characters. he live in 1000+ years... Emperor of GAISERIC!!!
Gaiseric already killed billion peoples...
Skull Knight will defeat 5 God Hands

Anime/Manga >>> Marvel >>> DC

my favorite is STRONGEST CHARACTERS!!!

-Skull Knight
-Void
-Slann
-Uber
-Femto
-Conrad
-Ganishka
-Dark Schiender
-Tetsuo (Akira)
-Nosferatu Alucard
-Legato Bluesummers

Only problem w/ that idea is that there are so many cosmics and omnipotent beings in those 2 universes that anime loses by sheer numbers.

[DarkLordDragon]

Skull Knight pwned all characters. he live in 1000+ years... Emperor of GAISERIC!!!


So What!? This is nothing compared to someone who lived for 65 Billion year :)

It's hard to tell I am seeing most of the people are with the comics, comics characters are strong but guys don't forget anime/manga features characters that even Cosmic being can't defeat!

Here are some strong anime/comics characters:

The Lord Of Nightmare (Slayers)
Tenchi (Tenchi Muyo)
Adam (Angel Sanctuary) <<< He can do anything, just like freezing time,reality, reverse back time :)
Tokimi (Tenchi) Take a look at this pic with Tokimi and just tell me what you see in her robes

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/Illidania/sasami_nightmare.jpg

Other than Cosmic beings we have characters like:

Dark Schneider (Bastard) because Marvel doesn't have Adam they wont be able to kill him

Let's not forget
Belial, Jedah, Pyron who have the ability to own DBZ's characters

I heard someone said a super hero who move at the speed of light, lol Seiya whose not the strongest can move at the speed of light

Even a weak samurai like Demon Eyes Kyo can change reality/history or whatever :D

Hades could, just with his mind, hold in position the 9 planets of the solar system altogether EFFORTLESSLY...

I am not saying they are stronger than comics characters but Anime/manga have characters who have similar abilites as Marvel's cosmic beings...

[hjkou]

im pretty sure all the people voting for "comics easily" havent read all anime/manga yet (well der, there are too many)
im sure theres a manga/anime out there with a god-like being, thats probably portrayed as stronger than "the one above all" etc..
but if we're talking cosmics and below.. im also sure theres a char that can beat them ;D?

[Chamcham Trigger]

Lord of Nightmares (Slayers) for the win :whoo.
She's the best.

[Rice Ball]

Okay so its

Lord of Nightmares
Tenchi + Choushin's

Against

One Above All
The Presence
The Living Tribune
Spector
Thanos with HOTU
Beyonder
Infinity
Eternity




And no, Akira can't unmake a universe or kill everyone in one with a single thought, thats the minimum power i'm looking for in this list. If you know any Animes characters who have displayed this sort of ability please list them :)

[DarkLordDragon]

Akira can't unmake a universe or kill everyone in one with a single thought, thats the minimum power i'm looking for in this list.

You mean Thanos, Beyonder, Galactus...etc can do things like that if Galactus was able to do such a thing he didn't need for a herald to search for worlds :D if it's only by thought. So please Bubble think twice before you post

[Rice Ball]

You mean Thanos, Beyonder, Galactus...etc can do things like that if Galactus was able to do such a thing he didn't need for a herald to search for worlds :D if it's only by thought. So please Bubble think twice before you post


lol
I mentioned Thanos, and THANOS DID (read The End)
I also mentioned Beyonder, and BEYONDER DID (read Secret wars)
I didn't mention Galactus because he wasn't powerful enough

I really suggest you think and READ twice before you post

[DarkLordDragon]

lol
I mentioned Thanos, and THANOS DID (read The End)
I also mentioned Beyonder, and BEYONDER DID (read Secret wars)
I didn't mention Galactus because he wasn't powerful enough

I really suggest you think and READ twice before you post

I know you didn't mention Galactus but most of the people think that Galactus is stronger than Thanos, of course in many other forums but I am not sure if it's same here or not? and if Thanos have this ability may you tell me why he didn't do so? (I didn't read the manga) so for sure he have some reasons for not doing so?

[Dr.Douchebag]

1 Comic book Cosmic character>All Anime combined.

agreed
u see there is this giant 50-60 storey man with a big W on his head who would like to venture into the anime world and give them ..a rather energetic surprise:laugh

[Rice Ball]

I know you didn't mention Galactus but most of the people think that Galactus is stronger than Thanos, of course in many other forums but I am not sure if it's same here or not? and if Thanos have this ability may you tell me why he didn't do so? (I didn't read the manga) so for sure he have some reasons for not doing so?

For a Start, Thanos is a Marvel character not a Manga character. Also i put Thanos with HOTU, That means HEART OF THE UNIVERSE, it gave him powers simular to One above All.
Why tell me to think before i post then if i didn't mention anything about galactus? That just didn't make sence...

I suggest you read over to the Manga Cult and read the Infinity Saga, it will give you a good insight into Marvel cosmics. Unless you have read alot of both, you can't give a good answer to this question. The series called 'The End' will answer your thanos questions above.

[DarkLordDragon]

For a Start, Thanos is a Marvel character not a Manga character. Also i put Thanos with HOTU, That means HEART OF THE UNIVERSE, it gave him powers simular to One above All.
Why tell me to think before i post then if i didn't mention anything about galactus? That just didn't make sence...

I suggest you read over to the Manga Cult and read the Infinity Saga, it will give you a good insight into Marvel cosmics. Unless you have read alot of both, you can't give a good answer to this question. The series called 'The End' will answer your thanos questions above.

Sorry I put a manga by mistake, the only cause is that I read manga too much and I am new in the comic world, I don't know much about the characters or their powers, so most of my sources are Marvel Dict, forums people.

I told you to think because it doesn't make a sense at least to my knowledge of comics' characters so I am sorry if my words offended you, I take them back :cool

My Marvel's soruce is Marvel Dict and this site:

http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/

and in this site I couldn't find/understand how some of the mentioned characters can do this to the universe by a simple thought :)

[Rice Ball]

Read the thanos bits about the Heart of the Universe

And Read the series- 'The End'

[konflikti]

im pretty sure all the people voting for "comics easily" havent read all anime/manga yet (well der, there are too many)
im sure theres a manga/anime out there with a god-like being, thats probably portrayed as stronger than "the one above all" etc..
but if we're talking cosmics and below.. im also sure theres a char that can beat them ;D?
The "You haven't read all the anime/manga" defence is pretty weak. I doubt any of you pro-manga people have read all of the comics either. I'm sure that for every uknown manga/anime with god-like beings there is at least one uknown god-like being in American comics too. I'm not sure about the history, but I think that American comics have longer history with Super-heros and god-like beings than manga.

[Death Fog]

Read the thanos bits about the Heart of the Universe

And Read the series- 'The End'

Well to be technical though, Thanos' universe-ending feats were done with the help of artifacts. He cant end a universe by just using his own powers. Its always with artifacts like IG or HOTU. But then again, thats what actually makes him really formidable, he has this uncanny ability to get ANYTHING he wants once he sets his eyes on it. IG and HOTU are the perfect evidence for that. So he might not be as as powerful as Eternity, Galactus, LT, etc. But he can be as dangerous or even more dangerous than them.

Also, I would like to ask why are we including TOAA, The Presence, Lord of Nightmares, etc to this battle? Its pointless to bring them up. Theyre THE Gods for crying out loud. They are the Omnipotent Beings who created everything that is, who is one with everything in existence and is the Alpha and the Omega. So if we include them here, dont you guys think it would just end up in a draw more than anything else? Y'know, a draw between TOAA, The Presence, LoN, Idea of Evil, etc. Basically all the other people in this battle would be useless.

So, Supreme Beings aside, I would say that the characters from Comics would win this. There's just too many l33t Cosmics in the comic world.

[vagnard]

On the contrary....anime wins by sheer numbers. Marvel + DC have only two really omnipotent beings: The Presence and TOAA. All the other beings are subordinated to them...so they aren't omnipotent. On the other hand...in anime you have hundreds of differents series with supreme beings. In Trinity Blood (a supernatural series) for example you have a Vatican...so you must assume that this universe have a christian god.

We know for sure.....Kami Tenchi, The Choushin, Lord of the Nightmares, Idea of Evil, God from Angelic Sanctuary, etc, etc....But in a fight like this numbers mean nothing. I said "Manga vs Comics" is a draw

[konflikti]

On the contrary....anime wins by sheer numbers. Marvel + DC have only two really omnipotent beings: The Presence and TOAA. All the other beings are subordinated to them...so they aren't omnipotent. On the other hand...in anime you have hundreds of differents series with supreme beings. In Trinity Blood (a supernatural series) for example you have a Vatican...so you must assume that this universe have a christian god.

We know for sure.....Kami Tenchi, The Choushin, Lord of the Nightmares, Idea of Evil, God from Angelic Sanctuary, etc, etc....But in a fight like this numbers mean nothing. I said "Manga vs Comics" is a draw
Yep. From the start it was omnipotent vs. omnipotent. It's like telling my infinite is more infinite than your infinite.

And the topic is "vs chars from comics (DC, Marvel, etc)" so not just DC and Marvel omnipotent beings. There should be at least the same number of omnipotent beings in comics as in anime/manga if you want to think by the line of though you just did(religion in comic equals omnipotent God). I doubt anyone wants to start counting. But if someone does, you can prove me wrong all. ;)

[vagnard]

That's why I said is a draw...this fight is futile is we don't know all the universes

[Rice Ball]

Also, I would like to ask why are we including TOAA, The Presence, Lord of Nightmares, etc to this battle? Its pointless to bring them up. Theyre THE Gods for crying out loud. They are the Omnipotent Beings who created everything that is, who is one with everything in existence and is the Alpha and the Omega. So if we include them here, dont you guys think it would just end up in a draw more than anything else? Y'know, a draw between TOAA, The Presence, LoN, Idea of Evil, etc. Basically all the other people in this battle would be useless.

Because in the end they would be the only thing that mattered in the Battle :p
If you draw a line, where do you draw it.

[Death Fog]

Because in the end they would be the only thing that mattered in the Battle :p
If you draw a line, where do you draw it.

Then why even make the fight in the first place if we know that it'll just be a draw? What was the whole 5 pages of this thread for? Sure, when it comes to a real battle, the Supreme Beings cant be really counted out because they will join in. But this is just a forum battle. Would it actually hurt to just count them out? I mean atleast we have something to talk about the people who are not omnipotent. People who arent perfect, who has limits and weaknesses which would lead us to nice speculations and intelligent debates. This omnipotent vs omnipotent matchup are too boring because we already know the outcome before we even start. Thats why you rarely see a TOAA vs The Presence matchup in comic book forums around the net.

Also It doesnt matter which side has more Supreme Beings. The fact is, they already are omnipotent. Meaning theyre at the top and no one and nothing can stop them. Numbers mean nothing. 1000000000000 Supreme Beings fighting 1 Supreme Being would still end in a draw. You cant beat an omnipotent being, you cant go above Infinity. There's no such thing as more omnipotent You cant say that Infinity + Infinity = Infinity +1. The answer is always "Infinity". The best you can do is be an omnipotent being yourself and be equal with them

Also vagnard, Im curious as to why you think the Choushins from Tenchi are omnipotent. Im not doubting you or anything, I just want to make sure.

[ydraliskos]

You cant say that Infinity + Infinity = Infinity +1. The answer is always "Infinity".


Actually infinity divided by infinity is 1

[konflikti]

Actually infinity divided by infinity is 1
No. You can't divide infinity by infinity since infinity isn't mathematically defined that way.

[Rice Ball]

Also vagnard, Im curious as to why you think the Choushins from Tenchi are omnipotent. Im not doubting you or anything, I just want to make sure.

The Choushins if i remember are high diamentional beings, as you can see by the pictures they er 'contain' a universe inside there cloths.

[vagnard]

Also vagnard, Im curious as to why you think the Choushins from Tenchi are omnipotent. Im not doubting you or anything, I just want to make sure.

Because they are the equivalent to TOAA and The Presence. They created Tenchi Multiverse. They can do anything except to create by "normal means" a being more powerful than them. Thats why they made disturbances in the multiverse to create anomalies capable to surpass them. Kami Tenchi is the result.

When the Choushin War ended they simply "reset" the multiverse and bring the existance to normality.

For more information you can read the Choushin bio in the Power Directory thread

[Zouri]

Hmmm, well there's no way that either side can win. With the omnipotent beings on both sides it's impossible to call a victor. So, why about if we just take all of them out? That way we can have a real convo again.

Personally, I think that the comics would win in this case. While anime/manga may have numbers, comic superheros have far more powers and are just stronger.

[The Space Cowboy]

Against the generalization about anime generally being weaker: I present Akira.

[Death Fog]

Because they are the equivalent to TOAA and The Presence. They created Tenchi Multiverse. They can do anything except to create by "normal means" a being more powerful than them. Thats why they made disturbances in the multiverse to create anomalies capable to surpass them. Kami Tenchi is the result.

When the Choushin War ended they simply "reset" the multiverse and bring the existance to normality.

For more information you can read the Choushin bio in the Power Directory thread

I dont think creating and resetting the Multiverse automatically makes them omnipotent and equal to TOAA and Presence. You said that they created the Tenchi Multiverse. Which would mean that they need each other to create a Multiverse(unless it was specifically stated that they can create Multiverses individually). Omnipotent beings can do anything and that would include creating a Multiverse by themselves. And seeing the Choushins are 3 beings that created the Tenchi Multiverse, I dont think that tells them theyre omnipotent because they might not have the ability to create reality individually.

I think you of all people should know this. Remember Lucifer and Michael? They created the whole DC Multiverse(which consists of milions of alternate universes) and recently created Lucifer's own Multiverse. Lucifer's capable of even creating gateways between Multiverses. He has complete control of reality in not only his Multiverse, but the DCverse. He is one with everything in his Multiverse. And you probably know the famous Multiversal explosion he took, right? Yet with all of this(he has more crazy feats than this), is he omnipotent? is Michael omnipotent? No they are not. Theyre close to it though.

It seems in your description of the Choushins in both the Powers Directory and in this thread, most of their feats have been done jointly by them. One could interpret this as them not having the power to do certain things individually, meaning that they still have limits. And it was said that there's still a being more powerful than them. That alone should tell you that theyre not All-Powerful. And besides, in your ranking, you put them in the same tier as LT, Eternity, Death, etc. So.......

[Arilou]

I think you of all people should know this. Remember Lucifer and Michael? They created the whole DC Multiverse(which consists of milions of alternate universes) and recently created Lucifer's own Multiverse. Lucifer's capable of even creating gateways between Multiverses. He has complete control of reality in not only his Multiverse, but the DCverse. He is one with everything in his Multiverse. And you probably know the famous Multiversal explosion he took, right? Yet with all of this(he has more crazy feats than this), is he omnipotent? is Michael omnipotent? No they are not. Theyre close to it though.

Yeah, Lucifer is a bad-ass, but nowhere near omnipotent. God is though. (He talks about it a bit in Sandman: "I wanted to be a co-author but ended up simply as a character in his story..."

[Death Fog]

Yeah, I remember that statement and he couldnt be more truer than that. He has done everything he could to not be a part of God's ultimate plan. He left the DC Multiverse and even created his own Multiverse just for him to be free of God's control but creating his Multiverse was actually still a part of God's plan. I kinda pity him.

[Rice Ball]

Against the generalization about anime generally being weaker: I present Akira.

because Akira is less powerful than Cable?

[vagnard]

I dont think creating and resetting the Multiverse automatically makes them omnipotent and equal to TOAA and Presence. You said that they created the Tenchi Multiverse. Which would mean that they need each other to create a Multiverse(unless it was specifically stated that they can create Multiverses individually). Omnipotent beings can do anything and that would include creating a Multiverse by themselves. And seeing the Choushins are 3 beings that created the Tenchi Multiverse, I dont think that tells them theyre omnipotent because they might not have the ability to create reality individually.

I think you of all people should know this. Remember Lucifer and Michael? They created the whole DC Multiverse(which consists of milions of alternate universes) and recently created Lucifer's own Multiverse. Lucifer's capable of even creating gateways between Multiverses. He has complete control of reality in not only his Multiverse, but the DCverse. He is one with everything in his Multiverse. And you probably know the famous Multiversal explosion he took, right? Yet with all of this(he has more crazy feats than this), is he omnipotent? is Michael omnipotent? No they are not. Theyre close to it though.

It seems in your description of the Choushins in both the Powers Directory and in this thread, most of their feats have been done jointly by them. One could interpret this as them not having the power to do certain things individually, meaning that they still have limits. And it was said that there's still a being more powerful than them. That alone should tell you that theyre not All-Powerful. And besides, in your ranking, you put them in the same tier as LT, Eternity, Death, etc. So.......


Yes, semantically...they aren't omnipotent, because they are 3. But the same word have flaws. Can a omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that he can't lift?. Can God create a being more powerful than him?. Do you see my point?. They are omnipotent in the same sense as TOAA and The Presence. I only ranked below because they have a being more powerful than them: Tenchi. While the TOAA and the Presence not. But....that means they are less powerful?. Not so obvious as you think.

They can do anything...anything except create directly a being more powerful than them or destroy each other. (thats a proof of omnipotence..if they would depend on each other...they could combine theirs powers to create Tenchi...but they can't)

They don't need each other to create or destroy the multiverse. Each one could do. In fact, Tokimi alone recreated the dimensions and multiverseS many times to obtain the ultimate anomaly. They only coexist in the same universe because they love each other :smile-big

Tenchi "universe" is composed by many dimensions and each dimension have its own multiverses. Not all the multiverses were created at the same time. They create dimensions at will. Each Choushin has her own agenda. They have worked alone many times. In fact Washu left her condition of Choushin and became mortal. Tsunami became the guardian of an Intergalactic Empire....and Tokimi hadn't any problem to continue with her work alone.

I don't undestand the whole...."only comics characters can be omnipotent". This is stupid. In the same anime they are stated as omnipotent.

Lucifer is weaker (a lot) than the Choushin. He can't create a multiverse alone. He needs Michael. He doesn't have demiurgic power inside of him. He can only give shape to the matter. You could say that the Presence isn't omnipotent too....because it share its power with the Great Beast. The Presence is only the half of a whole. The Presence can't destroy the Great Beast and viceversa.

With HOTU Thanos reached the same power as TOAA. So the whole concept of "omnipotent" in Marvel is wrecked too.

Yes...by concept the choushin aren't omnipotent in the "traditional sense" because there can be only one omnipotent being....but if you said that the Presence and TOAA are omnipotent...then they are too. They share the same flaw in the concept. And still you have Tenchi who is God in the whole extention of the word...more than TOAA and The Presence.

[Rice Ball]

Keep killing scarface will shoot me if i oppose vagnard.

Tbh anything considered omnipotent in ANY way shouldn't be included (this includes the tenchi people and Heart of the Universe)

As i said earlyer, it would be a draw if we included omnipotent gods in the battle.

[Death Fog]

Yes, semantically...they aren't omnipotent, because they are 3. But the same word have flaws. Can a omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that he can't lift?. Can God create a being more powerful than him?. Do you see my point?. They are omnipotent in the same sense as TOAA and The Presence. I only ranked below because they have a being more powerful than them: Tenchi. While the TOAA and the Presence not. But....that means they are less powerful?. Not so obvious as you think.

They can do anything...anything except create directly a being more powerful than them or destroy each other. (thats a proof of omnipotence..if they would depend on each other...they could combine theirs powers to create Tenchi...but they can't)

They don't need each other to create or destroy the multiverse. Each one could do. In fact, Tokimi alone recreated the dimensions and multiverseS many times to obtain the ultimate anomaly. They only coexist in the same universe because they love each other :smile-big

Tenchi "universe" is composed by many dimensions and each dimension have its own multiverses. Not all the multiverses were created at the same time. They create dimensions at will. Each Choushin has her own agenda. They have worked alone many times. In fact Washu left her condition of Choushin and became mortal. Tsunami became the guardian of an Intergalactic Empire....and Tokimi hadn't any problem to continue with her work alone.

I don't undestand the whole...."only comics characters can be omnipotent". This is stupid. In the same anime they are stated as omnipotent.

Lucifer is weaker (a lot) than the Choushin. He can't create a multiverse alone. He needs Michael. He doesn't have demiurgic power inside of him. He can only give shape to the matter. You could say that the Presence isn't omnipotent too....because it share its power with the Great Beast. The Presence is only the half of a whole. The Presence can't destroy the Great Beast and viceversa.

With HOTU Thanos reached the same power as TOAA. So the whole concept of "omnipotent" in Marvel is wrecked too.

Yes...by concept the choushin aren't omnipotent in the "traditional sense" because there can be only one omnipotent being....but if you said that the Presence and TOAA are omnipotent...then they are too. They share the same flaw in the concept. And still you have Tenchi who is God in the whole extention of the word...more than TOAA and The Presence.

The Presence couldnt destroy GEB because GEB himself is omnipotent just like how Presence, TOAA, Tenchi, etc cant really destroy each other. It might be confusing but 2 or more omnipotent beings existing is possible. The point about the term "Omnipotent", I believe, was never about whether or not you can reach that level. Its all about being infinite and that NO ONE can go beyond that point. Thats it. It doesnt exactly mean that no one can reach that level. It doesnt exactly say that you cant achieve Infinite powers. Think about it, we humans were created in the image of God. So in that sense, its possible that we can be like him.

The Chousins are different because there's actually a being more powerful than them, If you are omnipotent no one should be above you. There's nothing after Infinity. Sure, you can always bring the question of "Can God create a being more powerful than him?" or "Can God create a stone that he cant lift?". But hey, God is(or can be) everything. Who's to say that stone/rock is not him? Who's to say that entity is not him? Know what I mean?

Tokimi creating dimensions doesnt necessarily mean that she created whole existence alone. Im not an expert on Tenchi but I did watch/read some of them. And I sort of remember someone in Tenchi(I forgot who said it) explaining the Choushins' role in creating and maintaining the multiverse. Something like Tokimi's role was to create dimensions, space, stars, planets and galaxies. Tsunami's role was to create life on it and look after it. And Washu's role was the maintenance of it. In other words, its her job to make it all work properly. Of course you can correct me if Im wrong, and if Tokimi really was able to create everything alone I would like to know what chapter or episode was it shown or stated.

I strongly disagree about the Chousins being above the brothers. But thats a different matter altogether.

Also, I never said or even implied that only comic characters should be omnipotent. I never questioned Kami Tenchi's omnipotence, or LoN's omnipotence, etc. Im just not convinced that the Chousins are omnipotent.

[vagnard]

The Presence couldnt destroy GEB because GEB himself is omnipotent just like how Presence, TOAA, Tenchi, etc cant really destroy each other. It might be confusing but 2 or more omnipotent beings existing is possible. The point about the term "Omnipotent", I believe, was never about whether or not you can reach that level. Its all about being infinite and that NO ONE can go beyond that point. Thats it. It doesnt exactly mean that no one can reach that level. It doesnt exactly say that you cant achieve Infinite powers. Think about it, we humans were created in the image of God. So in that sense, its possible that we can be like him.

No. Omnipotency means that you can do anything. If you can't kill another being then you aren't omnipotent. As simple as that. If you take the word semantically then The Presence isn't omnipotent. It isn't only if you have a being more powerful than you....if you have an equal you aren't omnipotent too. That's why only monotheists religions believe in omnipotency. See the greeks or the nordics....Odin and Zeus weren't omnipotents. Any thing that put limits to your power annuls the real meaning of "omnipotent" See my point.

The Chousins are different because there's actually a being more powerful than them, If you are omnipotent no one should be above you. There's nothing after Infinity. Sure, you can always bring the question of "Can God create a being more powerful than him?" or "Can God create a stone that he cant lift?". But hey, God is(or can be) everything. Who's to say that stone/rock is not him? Who's to say that entity is not him? Know what I mean?

But how do you know that The Presence or TOAA haven't nothing above them?. Yes...they seem allpowerful in their respectives universes...but what certainty you have that if you take them and put in another universe they wouldn't be below than other supreme being?. Maybe Kami Tenchi or LOTN can kick The Presence' ass or viceversa. Under "our" perspective they are infinites...but between them we can't know....they exist in different universes with differents rules....what one could consider "infinite" could or couldn't mean "inifinite" necessarily to another "supreme being". We can't really know. Marvel Universe and TOAA could be a pocket multiverse created by a Choushin....that's the problem. If we accept that could be 2 "omnipotents" beings in DC (limited by each omnipotency) then we must accept that in Tenchi Universe exist 3 omnipotents beings....after all Tenchi is an anomaly beyond any logic....like the word said...he is an "anomaly" he shouldn't exist by any cosmic law. Imagine if Yahwe experimented during millions years and somehow by an cosmic chaos beyond his own logic he created a being more powerful than him....thats mean he isn't omnipotent anymore?....That's Tenchi....Do you see my point?

Tokimi creating dimensions doesnt necessarily mean that she created whole existence alone. Im not an expert on Tenchi but I did watch/read some of them. And I sort of remember someone in Tenchi(I forgot who said it) explaining the Choushins' role in creating and maintaining the multiverse.

Yes...but it was specially stated that the choshin individually were omnipotents, capable of any thing except to create a being more powerful than them. They can create the existance separately. The purpose of the Choushin wasn't create and maintain the universe but find a being more powerful than them. They always wanted defy their own logic or their "own omnipotency".

Something like Tokimi's role was to create dimensions, space, stars, planets and galaxies. Tsunami's role was to create life on it and look after it. And Washu's role was the maintenance of it. In other words, its her job to make it all work properly. Of course you can correct me if Im wrong, and if Tokimi really was able to create everything alone I would like to know what chapter or episode was it shown or stated.

Sure. You can find all I have said in Tenchi Muyo Ryo-Ohky Episode 19 (Ova Series)

I strongly disagree about the Chousins being above the brothers. But thats a different matter altogether.

I have no doubt that the Choushin are more powerful than Lucifer and Michael...we can discuss about the Presence...but Lucifer and Michael are in another league. I read both series. Lucifer can't even create a single universe without the demiurgic power of Michael....on the contrary....Michael hasn't the knowledge to give shape to the matter. Lucifer is hardly in the level of the Choushin, even the japanese gods and the Basanos give him a hard time. Lucifer can't reset the universe at will...he can't create multiverses for fun. He needed seven days to create a single universe using Michael's power. The Choushin doesn't even need to blink to create a universe. Lucifer's powers still depends on the Presence.....when the Presence left the DC Universe Lucifer became weaker....The Choushin power is own.

Also, I never said or even implied that only comic characters should be omnipotent. I never questioned Kami Tenchi's omnipotence, or LoN's omnipotence, etc. Im just not convinced that the Chousins are omnipotent.

Sorry...my fault....I tend to see in this forum an extreme extrapolation of the comics characters while the anime and manga characters are seen as "weak" by many...I am sorry for putting you in the same bag by an assumption.