Pein vs Itachi and Sasuke

[TheKnownTRUTH]

No limits

I think Pein would take this. First of all i dont think Tsukoyomi would work on Pein with Rinnegan and all and if it does thats only one body and they all see each others blind spot so they will just wake the body up or attack Itachi. I think Sasuke is just outmatched Period. Ametsaru may hit one of the bodies but like i said there are still more to play out and we all know those attacks take a lot out of Itachi. Pein wins this with moderate difficulty.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Pein wins easy, Itachi is Jiraiya's equal, Pein took him out when he tried, Sasuke is below Itachi's level, also Itachi's best attacks take a lot of chakra whereas Pein's don't, and he can keep coming back to life, and since no one has knowledge of Pein's ability, Pein rapes.

Oh and since you mentioned no limits, Pein uses Shoten to get Madara and Hashirama then they pwn Sasuke and Itachi.
:P

[Vangelis]

I believe Itachi and Sasuke would win.

[Super Mike]

Teh Sasuce and Itachi rape Pein like an angry blly goat with a boner.

[Dman]

pein would have much trouble killing either of them,both is just murder.

[Spencer_Gator]

Pain wins. They dont know his secret, Sasuke is totally outclassed, and Itachi would get beat.

[Itachi's Apprentice 3]

Itachi and Sasuke win.

[Hiruzen]

Its still 6 on 2. Fat body absorbs anything Sasuke has and possibly Amaterasu. I think Rinnegan might see through Tsukiyomi. Summoning body summons like crazy until Itachi gets too tired and then Rocket Pein blows them to bits. Any Pein bodies that die are resureccted by that one body.

[TheKnownTRUTH]

I cant believe people think Itachi and Sasuke could win this easily if they won it would be by something crazy happening... :uwah

[IceColdBeer]

Pain wins. Like others have said Sasuke is outclassed and Itachi can't beat Pain . The only thing that might give him trouble is Susano but i'm sure he has ways to over come it

[Illusions]

Itachi & Sasuke take this, at least for the time being.

[the box]

shoten clones solo

[Grimmjow]

I believe the brothers can take him

[Super Mike]

Itachi and Sasuke together are unbeatable.

[Nikushimi]

No limits

I think Pein would take this. First of all i dont think Tsukoyomi would work on Pein with Rinnegan and all and if it does thats only one body and they all see each others blind spot so they will just wake the body up or attack Itachi. I think Sasuke is just outmatched Period. Ametsaru may hit one of the bodies but like i said there are still more to play out and we all know those attacks take a lot out of Itachi. Pein wins this with moderate difficulty.

Is this a joke? Itachi solos with AoE, PnJ, WoF, and great justice. :gar

Pein wins easy, Itachi is Jiraiya's equal, Pein took him out when he tried, Sasuke is below Itachi's level, also Itachi's best attacks take a lot of chakra whereas Pein's don't, and he can keep coming back to life, and since no one has knowledge of Pein's ability, Pein rapes.

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you with all of that horseshit oozing out of your facehole. :awesome

Oh and since you mentioned no limits, Pein uses Shoten to get Madara and Hashirama then they pwn Sasuke and Itachi.


Shouten requires chakra from the donor and the power of the Shouten is restricted to how much chakra is given. Thus, a Shouten can never be equal to the original.

On top of that, Shoutens must be controlled by the original. It's not just an Edo Tensei.

Negged for failing hard and impeding great justice. :pek

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Is this a joke? Itachi solos with AoE, PnJ, WoF, and great justice. :gar



I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you with all of that horseshit oozing out of your facehole. :awesome



Shouten requires chakra from the donor and the power of the Shouten is restricted to how much chakra is given. Thus, a Shouten can never be equal to the original.

On top of that, Shoutens must be controlled by the original. It's not just an Edo Tensei.

Negged for failing hard and impeding great justice. :pek

Ah yes the Itachi fanboy has arrived:nuts

[Nikushimi]

Ah yes the Itachi fanboy has arrived:nuts

At least you remembered to use "the" instead of "a". :zaru

So what now? Do you want me to go "Hand Banana" on you like I always do? Because I just have this WHOLE new venue of cock ownage lines I've been itching to use.

:LOS

[Cyphon]

Pein probably takes this. Summons would be a problem for both of them and while they are fighting the summons they will have to deal with 5 other bodies. Ameterasu is canceled by Absorbing Pein and Tsukiyami is probably ineffective vs Pein. The last weapon is Susanoo and all of the bodies could just stay back and avoid that, since they have the shared vision it would not be much of a problem

Minus summons the fight would probably go the other way

[Saiai]

Nothing should be stated until we see pein's full capabilities I believe.:nod

[Grimmjowsensei]

No limits


Well, you should either restrict Itachi or Sasuke since from what I have seen so far, this seems like a Jail-rape in favor of Itachi and Sasuke.



Oh and since you mentioned no limits, Pein uses Shoten to get Madara and Hashirama then they pwn Sasuke and Itachi.
:P

Hashimara is dead. Shouten requires live chakra donators.

[Ryuk]

Pein Stomps imo.

[Roland]

From what we have seen so far in the manga, Itachi and Sasuke win with difficulty. Assuming knowledge is shared, Itachi and Sasuke would focus on the Pein that can bring back the others first, taking him out with a Chidori varient or a katon jutsu since that body of Pein has never shown anything other than that specific ability. Without the one to revive the others, Itachi and Sasuke can pick apart the bodies of the others with Kirin, Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, Susanoo, Chidori lance..etc. Also, both Itachi and Sasuke have shown superior speed to everyone else in the manga, Pein being no exception. Until we see more of Pein's abilities and he uses all of his bodies to his fullest potential, I won't leave this battle up to speculation and say Pein wins. Uchiha take it.

[Rescuebear]

I hate the uchiha clan (Shakes fist), and I think based on Pains counter to ninjitsu and his seemingly invunerability to Genjitsu he would defeat Itachi 1 on 1.
However, Itachi and sasuke are both from the same clan, brothers, and both powerful at that.
Together their styles would probably complement each other quite well, they could win this...
Though if i had to put money i would bet Pain.

[Topher]

I will come back in here on friday. :LOS

Sasuke solos.

[clador]

pein win

pein beat hanzou and all his village with juunins chuunin , just by himself

even he itachi and sasuke know about pein secret we are not sure that they can win

until now , the only ninja who can beat pein with secret is jiraiya

[Ironhide]

Itachi and Ssuke ftw

[Rescuebear]

Itachi and Ssuke ftw
Nice argument there smart guy

[Sado0og]

absolutely Pein...

in manga part one after the death of 3rd hokage when he visited the village for first time with Kisame...

after Jiraiya attacked Itachi and he ran away with Kisame

Kisame said why we can't fight him and take him down !!

Itachi said ... we don't have a chance even with the legendary ninja from hidden village

Jiraiya is a legend

[Nikushimi]

Pein probably takes this. Summons would be a problem for both of them and while they are fighting the summons they will have to deal with 5 other bodies. Ameterasu is canceled by Absorbing Pein and Tsukiyami is probably ineffective vs Pein. The last weapon is Susanoo and all of the bodies could just stay back and avoid that, since they have the shared vision it would not be much of a problem

Minus summons the fight would probably go the other way

Please tell me you're kidding.

Sasuke alone would butcher maybe 4 or 5 bodies of Pein. Itachi, with Susano'o, could likely defeat him entirely alone. Together this is a stomp.

You're either grotesquely overrating Pein, or grotesquely underrating the Uchiha brothers. Together, they win this with pure Taijutsu rape. Summons=shit. :zaru

Also, I like how you automatically assume EVERY SINGLE TIME that Susano'o never hits. Ever. I also like how, this time, you assume it can't hit EVEN WITH SASUKE'S HELP.

I think you need to stop posting.

[flamesNfrost]

im not an uchihafag but they would def take this.. 1v1 however they wouldnt stand a chance

[Bonds]

Given Sasuke's upcoming upgrades and the fact that Itachi isn't limited (meaning Susano'o), I can't even make an argument for Pein here. One vs one I could, barely, but against the two of them? No way.

[Nikushimi]

absolutely Pein...

in manga part one after the death of 3rd hokage when he visited the village for first time with Kisame...

after Jiraiya attacked Itachi and he ran away with Kisame

Kisame said why we can't fight him and take him down !!

Itachi said ... we don't have a chance even with the legendary ninja from hidden village

Jiraiya is a legend

So not only did you completely butcher the order of events/the events themselves, you also grossly twisted what was said and spat it out as a malformed blob of text chosen based on Jiraiyawank. Great job. :zaru

Jiraiya was never said to be stronger. Ever. In fact, when they were running away, Kisame thought they should go back and own his ass.

[LovesSasuke]

itachi and sasuke=unstopable dou

pein had trouble with jiraiya who had no knowledge of his techs.

itachi probably do....and sasuke is a genius

uchiha bros

[copycat123]

Please tell me you're kidding.

Sasuke alone would butcher maybe 4 or 5 bodies of Pein. Itachi, with Susano'o, could likely defeat him entirely alone. Together this is a stomp.

You're either grotesquely overrating Pein, or grotesquely underrating the Uchiha brothers. Together, they win this with pure Taijutsu rape. Summons=shit. :zaru

Also, I like how you automatically assume EVERY SINGLE TIME that Susano'o never hits. Ever. I also like how, this time, you assume it can't hit EVEN WITH SASUKE'S HELP.

I think you need to stop posting.


The overrating and underrating that you mention applies to you as well and to a very large extent (just in the reverse order).

The uchiha brothers together may very well defeat Pein from what we have seen of Pein

But Sasuke defeating 4 to 5 bodies? Pein would rip apart Sasuke and toss him into the sewers while smoking a cigar.

Itachi is a bit tough (at least tougher than Sasuke) but compared to Pein, he is just another face in the crowd :P

As I mentioned before, Susanoo is powerful but it is not going to work against Pein (due to his multiple bodies). Jiraya killed (KILLED) a body, yet Pein totally remains unharmed and is about to go after Naruto.

What makes you think that with crappy chakra level that Itachi has, he will sustain susanoo for long? The benefit of the doubt goes against Itachi since MS moves in general takes a lot of chakra.

And as for Sasuke, LOL Sasuke.

[Topher]

The overrating and underrating that you mention applies to you as well and to a very large extent (just in the reverse order).

The uchiha brothers together may very well defeat Pein from what we have seen of Pein

But Sasuke defeating 4 to 5 bodies? Pein would rip apart Sasuke and toss him into the sewers while smoking a cigar.

Itachi is a bit tough (at least tougher than Sasuke) but compared to Pein, he is just another face in the crowd :P

As I mentioned before, Susanoo is powerful but it is not going to work against Pein (due to his multiple bodies). Jiraya killed (KILLED) a body, yet Pein totally remains unharmed and is about to go after Naruto.

What makes you think that with crappy chakra level that Itachi has, he will sustain susanoo for long? The benefit of the doubt goes against Itachi since MS moves in general takes a lot of chakra.

And as for Sasuke, LOL Sasuke.

I lol @ your post.

I can't wait for friday :LOS

sasuke solos pein

[Cyphon]

Please tell me you're kidding.

Sasuke alone would butcher maybe 4 or 5 bodies of Pein. Itachi, with Susano'o, could likely defeat him entirely alone. Together this is a stomp.

You're either grotesquely overrating Pein, or grotesquely underrating the Uchiha brothers. Together, they win this with pure Taijutsu rape. Summons=shit. :zaru

Also, I like how you automatically assume EVERY SINGLE TIME that Susano'o never hits. Ever. I also like how, this time, you assume it can't hit EVEN WITH SASUKE'S HELP.

I think you need to stop posting.

Its 6 on 2 plus summons vs a team where Pein can negate 2 of your best fighters best attacks. I didn't assume Susano could not hit, I assumed it could be avoided...just b/c you vastly overrate it does not make it a false argument. They would win with pure taijutsu rape, if it were possible for them to land a punch, however 6 people with shared vision are not getting hit without some serious tactics thrown in to play... while dodging summons. Then to top it off, any body that is not destroyed badly enough will simply be revived and used again. Sasuke lost his best chances of being effective when he lost Manda and CS, and now that Oro is out of him he lost his quicker healing. In losing CS he lost his best defensive weapon and his flight capabilities.

You haven't even made any kind of argument, you have just simply picked your favorite and hyped them....you made no kind of debatable points and then you neg rep me for stating an opinion in which i even said your choice of team would have a chance of winning. And how am i overrating Pein? Do you forget he was Itachi's boss (although it is questionable to what extent), and bossed around 9 other people all close to or higher than Sasuke's level? Or that he defeated the guy who bitch slapped 3 sannin at once? That means Hanzou beat Jiraiya > Itachi (IMO), Oro > Sasuke (no cursed seal now) and Tsunade...and then he was beaten by Pein...while this argument isn't the best point, it is still a good idea that we should not underestimate Pein. He has also never lost a fight.

So i believe you are the one who should stop posting. It seems you have not learned how to check your emotions and prevent yourself from getting upset when anyone says that Itachi may lose. I understand that he is your favorite character, but you must remember that he is a fictional entity, he would lose to an eraser. He is not some real person that i have insulted, or a family member of yours who i slapped in the face. He was invented by Masashi Kishimoto and is just pen and pencil marks...but you seem to have adopted him as an imaginary friend of some sort. So I am sorry if i have insulted someone close to you, but please do not neg rep me for stating an opinion that may downplay your friends status. I simply thought about what is known of each individual, and thought out a scenario in my head of the how the fight may go, and then i stated my reasoning. All you have done was look at the word Itachi and say "he wins the fight".

Thanks for reading

[TheKnownTRUTH]

Its 6 on 2 plus summons vs a team where Pein can negate 2 of your best fighters best attacks. I didn't assume Susano could not hit, I assumed it could be avoided...just b/c you vastly overrate it does not make it a false argument. They would win with pure taijutsu rape, if it were possible for them to land a punch, however 6 people with shared vision are not getting hit without some serious tactics thrown in to play... while dodging summons. Then to top it off, any body that is not destroyed badly enough will simply be revived and used again. Sasuke lost his best chances of being effective when he lost Manda and CS, and now that Oro is out of him he lost his quicker healing. In losing CS he lost his best defensive weapon and his flight capabilities.

You haven't even made any kind of argument, you have just simply picked your favorite and hyped them....you made no kind of debatable points and then you neg rep me for stating an opinion in which i even said your choice of team would have a chance of winning. And how am i overrating Pein? Do you forget he was Itachi's boss (although it is questionable to what extent), and bossed around 9 other people all close to or higher than Sasuke's level? Or that he defeated the guy who bitch slapped 3 sannin at once? That means Hanzou beat Jiraiya > Itachi (IMO), Oro > Sasuke (no cursed seal now) and Tsunade...and then he was beaten by Pein...while this argument isn't the best point, it is still a good idea that we should not underestimate Pein. He has also never lost a fight.

So i believe you are the one who should stop posting. It seems you have not learned how to check your emotions and prevent yourself from getting upset when anyone says that Itachi may lose. I understand that he is your favorite character, but you must remember that he is a fictional entity, he would lose to an eraser. He is not some real person that i have insulted, or a family member of yours who i slapped in the face. He was invented by Masashi Kishimoto and is just pen and pencil marks...but you seem to have adopted him as an imaginary friend of some sort. So I am sorry if i have insulted someone close to you, but please do not neg rep me for stating an opinion that may downplay your friends status. I simply thought about what is known of each individual, and thought out a scenario in my head of the how the fight may go, and then i stated my reasoning. All you have done was look at the word Itachi and say "he wins the fight".

Thanks for reading

great post people forget that Itachi could have killed Sasuke at any time he planned to die by Sasuke

[Rescuebear]

great post people forget that Itachi could have killed Sasuke at any time he planned to die by Sasuke
Sasuke and Itachi are on the same team...
Pains moves and abilities counter Itachis, Itachi is at a disadvantage here.
But both the Uchiha brothers could prove a powerful team.

[sasutachi]

itachi or new sasuke solos.people give too much credit pein.

[DennisKungenSvensk]

Idiots, its been proven: Itachi Solos.

[Rescuebear]

Idiots, its been proven: Itachi Solos.
By what exactly?

[copycat123]

I lol @ your post.

I can't wait for friday :LOS

sasuke solos pein

I have seen the spoilers; doesn't make an iota of difference.

Sasuke has a tendency to play to the galleries by going after "fillers". Anytime, he goes after someone semi-important, he gets mega-spanked (Itachi comes to mind). And of course we have Naruto (and Madara) waiting in line to dish out further humiliation :P

And keep hoping that Sasuke doesn't run into Pein before Naruto regardless of whatever sharingan he has. Pein will rip his head off and let the amegakure kids practice painting lessons on his sharingan. :P

[Topher]

I have seen the spoilers; doesn't make an iota of difference.

Sasuke has a tendency to play to the galleries by going after "fillers". Anytime, he goes after someone semi-important, he gets mega-spanked (Itachi comes to mind). And of course we have Naruto (and Madara) waiting in line to dish out further humiliation :P

And keep hoping that Sasuke doesn't run into Pein before Naruto regardless of whatever sharingan he has. Pein will rip his head off and let the amegakure kids practice painting lessons on his sharingan. :P

Is that suppose to be an argument?

you resort to bashing sasuke since you have no argument :laugh

[copycat123]

Is that suppose to be an argument?

you resort to bashing sasuke since you have no argument :laugh


What's supposed to be an argument?

Like one line statement "Sasuke solos Pein" as in your last post? :laugh

Take it easy. This is a battledom led mostly by fanboys. I was just neutralizing your fanboyism with mine :P

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

At least you remembered to use "the" instead of "a". :zaru

So what now? Do you want me to go "Hand Banana" on you like I always do? Because I just have this WHOLE new venue of cock ownage lines I've been itching to use.

:LOS

I just waiting to see how you plan to show everyone here how Itachi is unbeatable this time.

[Teach]

You fight sharingan users with multiple people. Pain is multiple people with shared eye vision.

I doubt any Doujutsu works they can probably Kai it quite fast.

Pain rapestomps.

[Sado0og]

So not only did you completely butcher the order of events/the events themselves, you also grossly twisted what was said and spat it out as a malformed blob of text chosen based on Jiraiyawank. Great job. :zaru

Jiraiya was never said to be stronger. Ever. In fact, when they were running away, Kisame thought they should go back and own his ass.

Dear back to Anime part one epsoide 80s

there u will find what Itachi said to Kisame smile-big

^_____________^

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

I lol @ your post.

I can't wait for friday :LOS

sasuke solos pein

When I read this bit I just..:rotfl

[Stephen]

Itachi and Sasuke win

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Hashimara is dead. Shouten requires live chakra donators.

The OP said no restrictions:awesome

[TheKnownTRUTH]

I have seen the spoilers; doesn't make an iota of difference.

Sasuke has a tendency to play to the galleries by going after "fillers". Anytime, he goes after someone semi-important, he gets mega-spanked (Itachi comes to mind). And of course we have Naruto (and Madara) waiting in line to dish out further humiliation :P

And keep hoping that Sasuke doesn't run into Pein before Naruto regardless of whatever sharingan he has. Pein will rip his head off and let the amegakure kids practice painting lessons on his sharingan. :P

If the spoilers i saw were true im just gonna say WTF!!!!! but yeah Sasuke and Itachi can not win against Pein

[Cooli]

Pein beat Jiraiya

Itachi ran from Jiraiya

Itachi stomped Sasuke

So i'd have to say Pein would win

[Illusions]

Seems like mods got some work to do....

[TheKnownTRUTH]

It must be a lot of Uchihatards on here. There is no way Pein loses this fight jut admit it. Is it that hard

[Truepotential]

Pein would rape them individually.

But together, Pein loses his position as god.

[Nikushimi]

Its 6 on 2 plus summons vs a team where Pein can negate 2 of your best fighters best attacks. I didn't assume Susano could not hit, I assumed it could be avoided...just b/c you vastly overrate it does not make it a false argument. They would win with pure taijutsu rape, if it were possible for them to land a punch, however 6 people with shared vision are not getting hit without some serious tactics thrown in to play... while dodging summons. Then to top it off, any body that is not destroyed badly enough will simply be revived and used again. Sasuke lost his best chances of being effective when he lost Manda and CS, and now that Oro is out of him he lost his quicker healing. In losing CS he lost his best defensive weapon and his flight capabilities.

Your mistake is thinking it's 6 against 2, when in fact, it's more like 6x against 2y, in which x=1 and y=6. You are assuming one Pein body is equivalent to either of the Uchiha brothers. I guess that means Fat Pein=Itachi? No. This wasn't a good argument, at all. You need to realize that there is NO BEING IN THE NARUTOVERSE, EVER, who could handle Itachi and Sasuke at the same time. Both have lethal Jutsu that are almost impossible to evade. Both are at the apex of speed and strength in the series. Both are intelligent and have more tricks up their respective sleeves than Carter's has liver pills. Acting like 6-on-2 is a disadvantage for them is completely flawed logic, especially after we saw base Sasuke decimate an army of well over a thousand.

On the subject of Sasuke, I distinctly remember him killing a large snake summon in the Forest of Death instantly using only shuriken. I doubt anything Pein has shown would give either of the Uchiha brothers trouble, let alone both of them at once.

On the issue of shared vision, I'm sorry, but what? Pein's security booth vision makes him untouchable? No. That only works when defending from blindspot attacks. That doesn't compensate for raw speed gaps, or Itachi simply grabbing and overpowering one of them, which he has done on a number of occasions to other foes (like Sasuke). Revival is also not going to happen, since Itachi and Sasuke will be blitzing like crazy together. We're talking about two opponents that have equal or greater speed than Sennin Moodo Jiraiya, at least. If Pein DOES manage to revive bodies, he'll need another body to do it, which means less bodies to fend off Itachi and Sasuke, which means one of them will likely get through and interrupt the revival. As we saw with Fuuma Pein, it's not always possible to revive a fallen body.

You haven't even made any kind of argument, you have just simply picked your favorite and hyped them....you made no kind of debatable points and then you neg rep me for stating an opinion in which i even said your choice of team would have a chance of winning. And how am i overrating Pein? Do you forget he was Itachi's boss (although it is questionable to what extent), and bossed around 9 other people all close to or higher than Sasuke's level? Or that he defeated the guy who bitch slapped 3 sannin at once? That means Hanzou beat Jiraiya > Itachi (IMO), Oro > Sasuke (no cursed seal now) and Tsunade...and then he was beaten by Pein...while this argument isn't the best point, it is still a good idea that we should not underestimate Pein. He has also never lost a fight.

You want to know why I haven't made an argument? Because there is no arguement to make. It's utterly ridiculous to think that any single character (don't bullshit me with Pein's six bodies, srsly; he's one dude, just with extra arms and legs) could handle Itachi AND Sasuke at the same time. Those are two top-tier characters, both stronger than the Sannin at their prime.

Also, what happened to "ABC=pure, unreliable shit", hm? Why is it that only you get to use ABC, and when I do, you chastise me for being too linear?

EDIT: On the subject of Pein never losing a fight, pre-skip Gaara hadn't even been scratched until he met Lee. Does that mean pre-skip Gaara and pre-skip Lee are stronger than Pein?

So i believe you are the one who should stop posting. It seems you have not learned how to check your emotions and prevent yourself from getting upset when anyone says that Itachi may lose. I understand that he is your favorite character, but you must remember that he is a fictional entity, he would lose to an eraser. He is not some real person that i have insulted, or a family member of yours who i slapped in the face. He was invented by Masashi Kishimoto and is just pen and pencil marks...but you seem to have adopted him as an imaginary friend of some sort. So I am sorry if i have insulted someone close to you, but please do not neg rep me for stating an opinion that may downplay your friends status. I simply thought about what is known of each individual, and thought out a scenario in my head of the how the fight may go, and then i stated my reasoning. All you have done was look at the word Itachi and say "he wins the fight".

Thanks for reading

Itachi's pen-and-pencil-mark cock would run you through like a pike Vlad Dracula-style. :zaru

(In all seriousness, I'm not dense. I know it's a fictional character. In fact, I've stressed the pointlessness of getting too worked-up over these kinds of topics to other people before. That doesn't mean I'm not allowed to play up the part of Itachi's no. 1 groupie for theatrical value. Besides, you are spittin' some serious heresies. :zaru)

[Nikushimi]

Dear back to Anime part one epsoide 80s

there u will find what Itachi said to Kisame smile-big

^_____________^

About how they -might- die if they confronted him, which could've been only in regards to the situation then and there, or even a flat-out lie?

Yeah... That instance was contradicted so many times, I'm surprised anyone still uses it. We now know Itachi was after Sasuke, not Naruto, and meant to hinder Akatsuki's progress in whatever way possible.

^_______________________^

[Hiruzen]

Two Pein bodies= Itachi
One Pein body= Sasuke

Thus, 3 Pein bodies is all he needs; summoning body and fat body take on Itachi, while Taijutsu body shows Sasuke who's boss.

Resurrection body is there for backup. Meanwhile, Rocket body and Yahiko can sit back and relax.

[Nikushimi]

Two Pein bodies= Itachi
One Pein body= Sasuke

Thus, 3 Pein bodies is all he needs; summoning body and fat body take on Itachi, while Taijutsu body shows Sasuke who's boss.

Resurrection body is there for backup. Meanwhile, Rocket body and Yahiko can sit back and relax.

More like

Itachi=6 bodies, at least

Sasuke=5 bodies


Pein needs everything he's got just to keep from getting buttsecks'd. We all know Pein requires buttsecks, but not like THIS.

Summoning Pein and Fat Pein alone would be blitzed by Itachi. Pein hasn't shown a Taijutsu body, and even if he had one, Taijutsu alone can't beat Sasuke. You're grossly missinformed. :awesome

[Nikushimi]

I just waiting to see how you plan to show everyone here how Itachi is unbeatable this time.

Satisfied? :LOS

King Itachi solos for Maximum the Justicemone.

[Hiruzen]

I see that you refuse to believe that Pein is better than Itachi. He is leader so HE IS BETTER THAN ITACHI AND EVERYONE ELSE IN AKATSUKI

Also

Pein>Itachi>Sasuke

[master bruce]

itachi uses mindrape on fat pein which is a genjutsu not a ninjutsu or taijutsu so fat pein can't absorb shit.

Since itachi can mindrape you in an instant in real world time, he would do it on fat pein and still not break stride or let his defenses down, leavingthe other 5 with no opening to attack.

Oh and you got it wrong dude, amaterasu can be used to engulf a huge area not just hit one person so much for your "itachi can only amaterasu one body" theory.

A healthy Itachi could easily deal with the other bodies given his particular set of powers and based on what pein has shown so far.
Plus, he has susanoo and the spirit sword.


Sasuke has his insane speed, his chidori variants, his nagashi, and his sword, plus, his own MS and the small mountain busting Kirin(thats a DB level jutsu)



Plus, they are both geniuses with incredible quick-on-the-feet and strategic battle thinking.

Plus, they both have sharingan precog and whatever other jutsus they have learned with their sharingan from the many shinobi they have fought/slain.

[Hiruzen]

Apparently, half of you forget Susanoo is Itachi's last restort. Even Amaterasu takes up a lot of his chakra. Pein has never shown exaustion. So Pein can use Rocket Pein to obliterate Sasuke. And then he can keep distracting Susanoo with summons until Itachi dies of exaustion.

[Nikushimi]

I see that you refuse to believe that Pein is better than Itachi. He is leader so HE IS BETTER THAN ITACHI AND EVERYONE ELSE IN AKATSUKI

Also

Pein>Itachi>Sasuke

"Leader of Akatsuki" is a rather shallow and meaningless title, since Akatsuki is a cooperative, not a dictatorship. In other words, the members work collectively toward a common goal, but otherwise have their own interests. That's why Hidan was able to get away with back-talking and even insulting Pein. If Pein was really such a badass, Hidan would've been buried underground a long time ago.

"Also"

Itachi>Pein>Sasuke

No one can just "outlast" Susano'o. Itachi chopped eight Yamata heads, I'm sure he could chop six bodies. Especially since he did it, you know...right before collapsing and...dying...basically.

Apparently, half of you forget Susanoo is Itachi's last restort. Even Amaterasu takes up a lot of his chakra. Pein has never shown exaustion. So Pein can use Rocket Pein to obliterate Sasuke. And then he can keep distracting Susanoo with summons until Itachi dies of exaustion.

So now Arm-Launching Menos Grande Pein>Sasuke? No.

Sasuke would violate him with his own rocket-fist.

[Hiruzen]

Originally Posted by Nikushimi

No one can just "outlast" Susano'o. Itachi chopped eight Yamata heads, I'm sure he could chop six bodies.

Umm..the Yamata heads were a huge target, 6 little bodies running around wouldn't be as easy to catch.

[Nikushimi]

Umm..the Yamata heads were a huge target, 6 little bodies running around wouldn't be as easy to catch.

Itachi is human-sized. IIRC, he's actually a human, too. :zaru

[Grimmjowsensei]

The uchiha brothers together may very well stomp Pein from what we have seen of Pein

fixed :zaru

But Sasuke defeating 4 to 5 bodies? Pein would rip apart Sasuke and toss him into the sewers while smoking a cigar.
Jiraiya defeated 4 bodies. Considering Sasuke's many advantages over Jiraiya, I don't see why Sasuke wouldn't be able to defeat at least 4 of em.

Itachi is a bit tough (at least tougher than Sasuke) but compared to Pein, he is just another face in the crowd :P

If pain can revive his bodies over and over again, probably yeah he'd be able to defeat Itachi. Another face in the crowd ? hell no, Pain stated that Jiraiya would defeat him if he knew about his secret.

As I mentioned before, Susanoo is powerful but it is not going to work against Pein (due to his multiple bodies). Jiraya killed (KILLED) a body, yet Pein totally remains unharmed and is about to go after Naruto.

Multiple ? by the time Itachi resorts to Susano'o atleast 3 of Pains bodies would have been butchered already.

What makes you think that with crappy chakra level that Itachi has, he will sustain susanoo for long? The benefit of the doubt goes against Itachi since MS moves in general takes a lot of chakra.

Crappy chakra level ? Dude, Itachi in a shitty condition could sustain Susano'o a couple of minutes after using a tsukiyomi, two shots of Amaterasu and some other shit.

Seriously, within 1 minute, all of pains bodies would be wiped out. Uchiha brothers rape @ ease.

[Hyroku Sanada]

Pein would have a hard time defeating those two even though he would still come out the winner.

[Lora]

Jiraiya defeated 4 bodies. Considering Sasuke's many advantages over Jiraiya, I don't see why Sasuke wouldn't be able to defeat at least 4 of em.


Jiraiya only lasted as long as he did because of his awesome Defense Barrier and the fact that Pein was obviously taking him lightly

Remind yourself that 1 of the Pein's was strong and quick enougth to speedblitz Jiraiya while in Hermit mode, the only thing that has acheived a feat anywhere near that was 1 tailed PTS Naruto

4 of those Peins Going against Sasuke with intent the kid is Dead !!


If pain can revive his bodies over and over again, probably yeah he'd be able to defeat Itachi. Another face in the crowd ? hell no, Pain stated that Jiraiya would defeat him if he knew about his secret.


That statement again looking back at it i doubt that it was entirely true th o be honest the fight only lasted aslong as it did because Pein allowed Jiraiya to go on the offensive for the majority of the fight and when he finally did he practically ended it in a few panels basing it off feats that statement was an hype


Multiple ? by the time Itachi resorts to Susano'o atleast 3 of Pains bodies would have been butchered already.


We don't know how good Susano would have been against Pein theoretically theres nothing stoping Pein from gobbling it up seeing as it is composed of energy plus pein has other viable methods of dealing with it like the chakra disruption swords


Crappy chakra level ? Dude, Itachi in a shitty condition could sustain Susano'o a couple of minutes after using a tsukiyomi, two shots of Amaterasu and some other shit.

Seriously, within 1 minute, all of pains bodies would be wiped out. Uchiha brothers rape @ ease.

Soldier Pills ?

[TheKnownTRUTH]

People are trying to make Itachii do things he couldnt do. The thing you call mindrape wont work on Pein for one Too many bodies. Second of all Sasuke is completly outmatched here. Any one of the Pein's could probably take him down. Uchiha's weaknesses are mulitple opponents and Stamina Pein just outmatches them there Summoning Pein and Absorbing take Itachi and Rocket and WHOever go for Sasuke and The other two play a game of spades.

[Cyphon]

[QUOTE]
Your mistake is thinking it's 6 against 2, when in fact, it's more like 6x against 2y, in which x=1 and y=6. You are assuming one Pein body is equivalent to either of the Uchiha brothers. I guess that means Fat Pein=Itachi? No. This wasn't a good argument, at all. You need to realize that there is NO BEING IN THE NARUTOVERSE, EVER, who could handle Itachi and Sasuke at the same time. Both have lethal Jutsu that are almost impossible to evade. Both are at the apex of speed and strength in the series. Both are intelligent and have more tricks up their respective sleeves than Carter's has liver pills. Acting like 6-on-2 is a disadvantage for them is completely flawed logic, especially after we saw base Sasuke decimate an army of well over a thousand.


I am not assuming they are equal, but the way the bodies work together make for something different than just considering 1 vs 1 or x vs y. And Sasuke beat 1000 fodder...we don't even know if they were above gennin level. If we want to use numbers that aren't important than i can to... Jiraiya, Oro and Tsunade could each handle 1,000 fodder or more. Hanzou beat all 3 of them so he can be equal to at least 3,000-4,000. Pein in turn beat him, so Pein is maybe 5,000 fodder high.


On the subject of Sasuke, I distinctly remember him killing a large snake summon in the Forest of Death instantly using only shuriken. I doubt anything Pein has shown would give either of the Uchiha brothers trouble, let alone both of them at once.

large fodder snake does not equal multiplying dogs or speed bird. What do they have on a high level that could take them out?...I know the answer, but they would be chakra draining, and that would cause enough of a distraction for them both to have a black chakra stick rammed up there asses.


On the issue of shared vision, I'm sorry, but what? Pein's security booth vision makes him untouchable? No. That only works when defending from blindspot attacks. That doesn't compensate for raw speed gaps, or Itachi simply grabbing and overpowering one of them, which he has done on a number of occasions to other foes (like Sasuke). Revival is also not going to happen, since Itachi and Sasuke will be blitzing like crazy together. We're talking about two opponents that have equal or greater speed than Sennin Moodo Jiraiya, at least. If Pein DOES manage to revive bodies, he'll need another body to do it, which means less bodies to fend off Itachi and Sasuke, which means one of them will likely get through and interrupt the revival. As we saw with Fuuma Pein, it's not always possible to revive a fallen body.

It is not just shared vision though. It is them fending off summons from one body while being attacked by 5 other bodies, or 4 if he leaves one back for revival purposes. On top of that he will have 6 different angles of where to find openings or to defend.


You want to know why I haven't made an argument? Because there is no arguement to make. It's utterly ridiculous to think that any single character (don't bullshit me with Pein's six bodies, srsly; he's one dude, just with extra arms and legs) could handle Itachi AND Sasuke at the same time. Those are two top-tier characters, both stronger than the Sannin at their prime.

Don't try to turn this into that. That is strictly your opinion and there is nothing remotely backing this claim. Itachi ran from a Sannin and manhandled the other, making him around sannin level... and Sasuke beat up a half dead sannin who wasn't even trying to kill him. Sasuke is far from Sannin prime level


Also, what happened to "ABC=pure, unreliable shit", hm? Why is it that only you get to use ABC, and when I do, you chastise me for being too linear?

I stated in my argument that it wasn't a good argument...i just threw it out there...kind of how you do with all your Itachi arguments


On the subject of Pein never losing a fight, pre-skip Gaara hadn't even been scratched until he met Lee. Does that mean pre-skip Gaara and pre-skip Lee are stronger than Pein?


They have both lost. I am not sure what you are getting at.

[Rescuebear]

This comes down to how well the brothers are able to co-ordinate their attacks, the only way they could win this is if they were able to work perfectly togeather, chances are they might be able to do this.
Pain has the advantage in this fight simply because he is invunerable to Ninjitsu and Genjitsu which are the brothers strongest points.
Susanoo's attack, tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, would all almost be a waste of time to even use on Pain, Itachi might even be better off fighting this battle without MS to better conserve his chakra instead of using high powered chakra draining moves that might not even work.

[Nikushimi]

I am not assuming they are equal, but the way the bodies work together make for something different than just considering 1 vs 1 or x vs y. And Sasuke beat 1000 fodder...we don't even know if they were above gennin level. If we want to use numbers that aren't important than i can to... Jiraiya, Oro and Tsunade could each handle 1,000 fodder or more. Hanzou beat all 3 of them so he can be equal to at least 3,000-4,000. Pein in turn beat him, so Pein is maybe 5,000 fodder high.

They wore flak jackets and had headbands. They were at least Chuunin-level, and fodder or not, defeating a thousand is impressive. Sasuke has also grossly immasculated Team 7, Orochimaru's Stage Two guards, and even Juugo and Suigetsu simultaneously while in base form. Hell, in base form alone, he's already a hop, skip, and a jump above any of Konoha's elite Jounin.

Again, though, you're using ABC. Pein seems like his advantage is numbers, so fighting more would be bad for him. It could work differently.


large fodder snake does not equal multiplying dogs or speed bird. What do they have on a high level that could take them out?...I know the answer, but they would be chakra draining, and that would cause enough of a distraction for them both to have a black chakra stick rammed up there asses.

I'm sure if you compared that Sasuke's abilities to the abilities of current Sasuke or current Itachi, the term "fodder" wouldn't even come close to describing how pathetic he would seem. Thus, if that Sasuke can handle a summon of that size that easily, I don't see why Sasuke couldn't just slice up the Cerberus summon with his katana before it could pass shit at the fact that it's fighting an Ushiha. In base form.

Summons aren't as unbeatable as you think. Jiraiya picked up the Cerberus summon and tossed it/knocked it back. He even smashed Pein's ROCKLOBSTER and tore it apart with his hair. Itachi and Sasuke would need basic Taijutsu/Ninjutsu to beat most of Pein's summons.

It is not just shared vision though. It is them fending off summons from one body while being attacked by 5 other bodies, or 4 if he leaves one back for revival purposes. On top of that he will have 6 different angles of where to find openings or to defend.

Like I said, Sasuke handled an army of over a thousand. I doubt numbers make any difference, especially when there's two sets of Sharingan scouting the battlefield.

Summons aren't much help, since only one body can use them, and I doubt the Uchiha brothers would let themselves be targetted at the same time; they'd probably split up and start blitzing like crazy. Sasuke has summons, too, so he'd be able to counter whatever Summoning Pein throws out.

Don't try to turn this into that. That is strictly your opinion and there is nothing remotely backing this claim. Itachi ran from a Sannin and manhandled the other, making him around sannin level... and Sasuke beat up a half dead sannin who wasn't even trying to kill him. Sasuke is far from Sannin prime level

I'm sorry you have an inability to change your opinion when you've clearly been proven wrong. :zaru

Why did Itachi run from Jiraiya? Because he had to? Because he couldn't fight Jiraiya? Or maybe, do you think, he did it because he didn't want to fight Jiraiya? Are you really still hung up on that? Isn't it obvious to you? Tobi said Itachi came to Konoha to remind the village elders and Danzou that he was still around. This was directly linked to Sasuke. He showed up and turned away from Naruto to face Sasuke. He fought Sasuke, defeated Sasuke, and made sure to mentally scar Sasuke. All for Sasuke. On the other hand, we know he was willing to go as far as to murder his own family to preserve the peace of the village. You really think he'd provoke a fight with a Sannin in the middle of the village and endanger the people? You really think he'd kill Jiraiya even if he could? No. Itachi was able to stand up to Jiraiya and escape without hurting a hair on his little head, while Jiraiya put forth his absolute best effort to kill him and failed miserably. Itachi>Jiraiya. NF agrees, Jiraiya agrees, Kishimoto agrees, don't bother them about it. :zaru

Now about Sasuke, Orochimaru's "sickness" was brought about by a failing host body. Orochimaru shed that body right at the start of the fight, and was still immediately overwhelmed by Sasuke's superior speed, skill, and power. The only thing- and I mean ONLY thing -that caught Sasuke off-guard was the poison vapors, which could've gotten anyone, regardless of how strong they were. It had nothing to do with ability, it was simply a matter of not knowing. In terms of actual power, Sasuke was lucidly superior to Oohebi Orochimaru. Granted we don't know the scope of that form's power compared to regular Orochimaru, it's pretty safe to say that Orochimaru wouldn't create a monstrosity out of himself like that unless it had some serious bite to go with its bark. Sasuke himself said he had nothing left to learn from Orochimaru, and he proved it. When all was said and done, by the time he absorbed Orochimaru and when he was at his best, I would definitely place Sasuke above Sannin level.


I stated in my argument that it wasn't a good argument...i just threw it out there...kind of how you do with all your Itachi arguments

Are you just going to keep throwing bad arguments at me, then? I'd prefer not. :zaru

Although, honestly, I have no real problem with ABC as long as other factors are taken into account. I just think you did it incorrectly.


They have both lost. I am not sure what you are getting at.

That Pein's "I've nevar lost, lol" title means nothing. We only know of one strong person Pein faced: Sanshouo no Hanzou. Formiddable, yes, but a single victory isn't really that impressive of a track record.

Hanzou probably wasn't even that strong, really. He may've trounced the younger Sannin, but Jiraiya knew Pein had killed Hanzou and wasn't afraid to confront him, so I think Jiraiya probably surpassed Hanzou.

[copycat123]

That Pein's "I've nevar lost, lol" title means nothing. We only know of one strong person Pein faced: Sanshouo no Hanzou. Formiddable, yes, but a single victory isn't really that impressive of a track record.

Hanzou probably wasn't even that strong, really. He may've trounced the younger Sannin, but Jiraiya knew Pein had killed Hanzou and wasn't afraid to confront him, so I think Jiraiya probably surpassed Hanzou.


And the end result was that Jiraya was defeated (killed) by Pein. Hence his record still remails intact. If the young sannins weren't strong and experienced enough to defeat Hanzou, well now you have a fully matured and vastly experienced sannin who was defeated by Pein.

So what do you have to say to that? Hanzou might have been weak by the current standards, but the matured Jiraya wasn't.

:amuse

[Hatake Riku]

Lol I'm pretty sure itachi AND sasuke would get tossed by shodaime...so niki iono what ur talking about nothing can beat those 2. Cause I'm willing to bet you that shodaime would have these kids bent over his lap spanking them with his wood.
Anyways...we haven't seen what pein can really do and as far as pa said rinnegan is the strongest doujutsu supposedly what the creators of the whole ninja world possesed.
For now all we can do is speculate...niki seriously do you cry when people offend ur favorite?
I can't predict off what we saw from pein vs jiraiya cause it still didn't look like to me like pein was really trying.
But just to piss niki off I'll say pein wins by rapestomping the uchiha emo brothers

[Agony]

Pein wins easy, Itachi is Jiraiya's equal, Pein took him out when he tried, Sasuke is below Itachi's level, also Itachi's best attacks take a lot of chakra whereas Pein's don't, and he can keep coming back to life, and since no one has knowledge of Pein's ability, Pein rapes.

Oh and since you mentioned no limits, Pein uses Shoten to get Madara and Hashirama then they pwn Sasuke and Itachi.
:P
u're saying itachi and jman is equal but their jutsu arent the same.they have their own weakness.jman's jutsu cannot defeat pein but itachi can.

with susanoo started at the first place,itachi can already solo.since they dont have any jutsu tat is something like jman's swamp of the underworld.both itachi and sasuke has high speed and can easily overcome al of pein's jutsu with sharingan.
Ah yes the Itachi fanboy has arrived:nuts
sometimes just have to agree with u.:amuse

[Agony]

People are trying to make Itachii do things he couldnt do. The thing you call mindrape wont work on Pein for one Too many bodies. Second of all Sasuke is completly outmatched here. Any one of the Pein's could probably take him down. Uchiha's weaknesses are mulitple opponents and Stamina Pein just outmatches them there Summoning Pein and Absorbing take Itachi and Rocket and WHOever go for Sasuke and The other two play a game of spades.

stop underrate itachi and sasuke.u're saying sasuke is like a genin o something.wad can the rockets do to itachi?the summoning are useless against susanoo.how do u know tsukiyomi doesnt work on pein?evidence please.

[Arteh]

Itachi solos pein like Nikushimi solo'd this thread.

I'm kinda depressed though, becase we'll never see itachi go full out on a powerful oponent, even though it does boost his haxor status <3 <3

[reddogs52]

you guys forget that sauske and itachi now both have amaterasu is both are alive so ummmmm they just spray pein with like umm amaterasu? or itachi uses tusukoyomi on one body and that one body shares its mind with the rest so they are all like not moveing for a second or so while sauske uses one of his new ems techniques or uses his newly implanted amaterasu? or kirin ha ha whichever

[Truepotential]

Jiraiya defeated 4 bodies. Considering Sasuke's many advantages over Jiraiya, I don't see why Sasuke wouldn't be able to defeat at least 4 of em.

What advantages?

Are you kidding me?

Hermit Mode Jiraiya who's faster than Sasuke was getting blitzed by Rocket Pein.

Another body had the ability to get behind HM Jiraiya, and if it wasn't for his frogs scouting out for him, he would've gotten blitzed.

4 bodies? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[TheKnownTRUTH]

People are forgetting that Uchihas have no stamina basically sorry but the brothers lose this one. They cant spam those eye attacks like people are claiming.

[Truepotential]

They wore flak jackets and had headbands. They were at least Chuunin-level, and fodder or not, defeating a thousand is impressive. Sasuke has also grossly immasculated Team 7, Orochimaru's Stage Two guards, and even Juugo and Suigetsu simultaneously while in base form. Hell, in base form alone, he's already a hop, skip, and a jump above any of Konoha's elite Jounin.

How do you know?

Iruka's a Chunin and he's fodder.

[IMMORTALx1]

Itachi solos.

[Nikushimi]

What advantages?

Are you kidding me?

Hermit Mode Jiraiya who's faster than Sasuke was getting blitzed by Rocket Pein.

Another body had the ability to get behind HM Jiraiya, and if it wasn't for his frogs scouting out for him, he would've gotten blitzed.

4 bodies? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

1. Since when is Jiraiya faster than Sasuke? No. Never. No one in the Narutoverse is faster than Sasuke, as far as we've seen, except for Minato, and MAYBE Itachi. Gross underestimation of Sasuke's speed, when we've seen ample evidence that more than proves he's fast.

2. Jiraiya never "almost got blitzed". He was attacked by the other bodies and was minus an arm, and Arm-Launching Menos Grande Pein attacked him out of nowhere.

3. Another body got behind Jiraiya? Yeah. It was six-on-one. It was bound to happen, given that Jiraiya only has one pair of arms and legs to fight back with. It isn't an issue of speed so much as it is an issue of numbers.

And the end result was that Jiraya was defeated (killed) by Pein. Hence his record still remails intact. If the young sannins weren't strong and experienced enough to defeat Hanzou, well now you have a fully matured and vastly experienced sannin who was defeated by Pein.

So what do you have to say to that? Hanzou might have been weak by the current standards, but the matured Jiraya wasn't.

I can't disagree there (although, I never said Hanzou was "weak", and in fact, I don't believe that at all). Pein definitely stomped all over Jiraiya.

The problem is...Itachi would do the same thing. Hence Itachi (currently) being at or above Pein's level. :edu

[Truepotential]

1. Since when is Jiraiya faster than Sasuke? No. Never. No one in the Narutoverse is faster than Sasuke, as far as we've seen, except for Minato, and MAYBE Itachi. Gross underestimation of Sasuke's speed, when we've seen ample evidence that more than proves he's fast.

2. Jiraiya never "almost got blitzed". He was attacked by the other bodies and was minus an arm, and Arm-Launching Menos Grande Pein attacked him out of nowhere.

3. Another body got behind Jiraiya? Yeah. It was six-on-one. It was bound to happen, given that Jiraiya only has one pair of arms and legs to fight back with. It isn't an issue of speed so much as it is an issue of numbers.

Noone is faster than Sasuke?

Both Deidara and Yamato reacted to his speed.

Actually no, that time Fat Pein was absorbing Rasengan.

HM Jiraiya shunshin'd to one of the bodes and instantly blitzed and destroyed it, I'd like to see Sasuke having a better speed feat.

[Nikushimi]

How do you know?

Iruka's a Chunin and he's fodder.

Pick anyone on the Sasuke Retrieval Squad. Iruka was at least their equal, statistically. That's hardly fodder when you consider having to fight thousands of opponents like that. I mean, look at the Rookie 9. They're pretty much the youngest, least-experienced, and probably among the weakest of Konoha's Chuunin (although, there are likely exceptions, such as Shino :P).

[Truepotential]

Pick anyone on the Sasuke Retrieval Squad. Iruka was at least their equal, statistically. That's hardly fodder when you consider having to fight thousands of opponents like that. I mean, look at the Rookie 9. They're pretty much the youngest, least-experienced, and probably among the weakest of Konoha's Chuunin (although, there are likely exceptions, such as Shino ).

:facepalm

Neji would murder him.

Naruto would kill him.

Kiba would dog rape him.

Chouji sits on him.

Iruka's only jutsu is tanking a basic ninja weapon.

[Nikushimi]

Noone is faster than Sasuke?

Both Deidara and Yamato reacted to his speed.

Actually no, that time Fat Pein was absorbing Rasengan.

HM Jiraiya shunshin'd to one of the bodes and instantly blitzed and destroyed it, I'd like to see Sasuke having a better speed feat.

"Reacting" does not show superior speed, especially when both instances occurred while Sasuke was in base form. Even then, both Deidara AND Yamato remarked that Sasuke was "too fast". And Deidara is fast in his own right, certainly more comparable to Jiraiya than Sasuke is. In fact, I'd say he's a bit faster, without Sennin Moodo in the equation.

When Fat Pein absorbed Chou Oodama Rasengan, I don't remember ALMG Pein being there yet. I'm pretty sure that came later.

Also, I don't recall Jiraiya "blitzing" any bodies. He blinded Skinny Pein with a kick to face, but only because Skinny Pein ran right into it after breaking from formation. Aside from that, Jiraiya's attacks were all completely tanked, and the only body he actually DID manage to take down was Fuuma Pein. We never saw that happen either, but apparently it was a result of some hax barrier. Either way, that's not "blitzing".

[Nikushimi]

:facepalm

Neji would murder him.

Naruto would kill him.

Kiba would dog rape him.

Chouji sits on him.

Iruka's only jutsu is tanking a basic ninja weapon.

Whatever images you keep posting, they're not showing up; just Photobucket error messages.

And anyway, the databook statistics disagree, Kishimoto disagrees, the manga disagrees, don't bother them about it. :zaru

[Truepotential]

"Reacting" does not show superior speed, especially when both instances occurred while Sasuke was in base form. Even then, both Deidara AND Yamato remarked that Sasuke was "too fast". And Deidara is fast in his own right, certainly more comparable to Jiraiya than Sasuke is. In fact, I'd say he's a bit faster, without Sennin Moodo in the equation.

When Fat Pein absorbed Chou Oodama Rasengan, I don't remember ALMG Pein being there yet. I'm pretty sure that came later.

Also, I don't recall Jiraiya "blitzing" any bodies. He blinded Skinny Pein with a kick to face, but only because Skinny Pein ran right into it after breaking from formation. Aside from that, Jiraiya's attacks were all completely tanked, and the only body he actually DID manage to take down was Fuuma Pein. We never saw that happen either, but apparently it was a result of some hax barrier. Either way, that's not "blitzing".

.................

No, it proves that they were fast enough to react to it.

Kakashi couldn't even react to Kakuzu's speed.

When was CS2 Sasuke shown faster? CS2 actually made Kimimaro slower.

He did blitz a body, Sasuke hasn't shown a better speed feat.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/07/

And anyway, the databook statistics disagree

Databooks also said Sannin are equal in strength.

Databooks said Raikiri and chidori are different jutsu.

Databooks said Itachi's Suiton is at the speed of light.

Databooks said Old Sarutobi has taijutsu on Gai's level.

[Nikushimi]

.................

No, it proves that they were fast enough to react to it.

Kakashi couldn't even react to Kakuzu's speed.

When was CS2 Sasuke shown faster? CS2 actually made Kimimaro slower.

He did blitz a body, Sasuke hasn't shown a better speed feat.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/07/

...So what? Armless Deidara could outrun Team Gai. Yamato is Bijuu-level and has KWGoD. :zaru

Kakuzu is probably around Sennin Moodo Jiraiya's level of speed. Kakashi isn't actually that fast, since the last Speed statistic we got from him was in tier 4.5. On the other hand, the likes of Base Sasuke and Gai are already well into the fifth tier. And I mean well into it.

And wait, CS2 made Kimimaro slower? What?

And I still don't recall Jiraiya blitzing a body. Scans or it didn't happen.

EDIT: If you mean kicking Skinny Pein, that's not "blitzing". Skinny Pein ran into it, and was never shown to be especially fast by himself anyway.

[Truepotential]

...So what? Armless Deidara could outrun Team Gai. Yamato is Bijuu-level and has KWGoD.

Kakuzu is probably around Sennin Moodo Jiraiya's level of speed. Kakashi isn't actually that fast, since the last Speed statistic we got from him was in tier 4.5. On the other hand, the likes of Base Sasuke and Gai are already well into the fifth tier. And I mean well into it.

And wait, CS2 made Kimimaro slower? What?

And I still don't recall Jiraiya blitzing a body. Scans or it didn't happen.

EDIT: If you mean kicking Skinny Pein, that's not "blitzing". Skinny Pein ran into it, and was never shown to be especially fast by himself anyway.

How is that not blitzing?

Skinny Pein couldn't even react to HM Jiraiya's shunshin speed, and instantly got kicked like 50 feet away.

Read my other posts about databooks.

[Nikushimi]

Databooks also said Sannin are equal in strength.

Maybe they are? I don't recall where that's said, though. Still, Orochimaru at his best is pretty close to Jiraiya at his best, and we've never seen Tsunade go all-out before...

Databooks said Raikiri and chidori are different jutsu.

They sort of are. Chidori is the actual technique, but the perfected version that Kakashi uses has the nickname "Raikiri", because he supposedly cut a bolt of lightning with it.

Databooks said Itachi's Suiton is at the speed of light.

That could simply be a hyperbole. Or it could be completely false, since there is no official English translation for the databooks yet, and it's all done via translation groups who are prone to error now and then.

Databooks said Old Sarutobi has taijutsu on Gai's level.

He does. "Taijutsu" refers to technical ability in hand-to-hand combat, not Power and Speed. Sarutobi is slower and weaker, but he has the same level of fighting know-how as Gai.


Above all, though, the databooks were written by Kishimoto himself, so challenging their authority is like challenging the manga itself.

[Nikushimi]

How is that not blitzing?

Skinny Pein couldn't even react to HM Jiraiya's shunshin speed, and instantly got kicked like 50 feet away.

Read my other posts about databooks.

Because "blitzing" implies making a move on the offensive, charging at someone, and K.O.ing them before they even know what happened. Jiraiya's strike happened defensively, because Skinny Pein was the one to run at him. Anyone can just...stick their foot out.

Again, when has Skinny Pein ever done anything impressive with Taijutsu? Look what fucking Shouten Kisame did to Gai with one bitch-smack: he plunged him like a hundred feet to the bottom of a lake. Gai.

I don't need to read your posts. I'm pretty sure they're all fundamentally flawed, since there is no contradicting the databooks. They are written by Kishimoto. They are law.

[Truepotential]

Maybe they are? I don't recall where that's said, though. Still, Orochimaru at his best is pretty close to Jiraiya at his best, and we've never seen Tsunade go all-out before...


Tsunade did go full out in the Sannin fight. Plus, Jiraiya is superior to Orochimaru as well.


They sort of are. Chidori is the actual technique, but the perfected version that Kakashi uses has the nickname "Raikiri", because he supposedly cut a bolt of lightning with it.

Raikiri is just a nickname for Chidori, nothing indicates that Kakashi upgraded it.

That could simply be a hyperbole. Or it could be completely false, since there is no official English translation for the databooks yet, and it's all done via translation groups who are prone to error now and then.

Oh? So that's part inaccurate, and the rest aren't?

Databooks also said Pre-Neji's speed in on par with Kakashi's.

He does. "Taijutsu" refers to technical ability in hand-to-hand combat, not Power and Speed. Sarutobi is slower and weaker, but he has the same level of fighting know-how as Gai.


Tayuya has a 5 in genjutsu, so she has genjutsu on Itachi's level?

Manga>databooks>anime.

[Bill G]

Itachi or even Sasuke take down Pein solo. How? Well, Pein has the Rinnegan on his side. But, Weasel and Sauce have Kishimoto oh their side :zaru

[Truepotential]

Because "blitzing" implies making a move on the offensive, charging at someone, and K.O.ing them before they even know what happened. Jiraiya's strike happened defensively, because Skinny Pein was the one to run at him. Anyone can just...stick their foot out.

Again, when has Skinny Pein ever done anything impressive with Taijutsu? Look what fucking Shouten Kisame did to Gai with one bitch-smack: he plunged him like a hundred feet to the bottom of a lake. Gai.

I don't need to read your posts. I'm pretty sure they're all fundamentally flawed, since there is no contradicting the databooks. They are written by Kishimoto. They are law.

If Jiraiya was as slow as Pre-Sakura, Pein would've dodged it. I don't care if it was blitzing or not, still an incredible speed feat.

Plus, by your logic of blitzing, if Kakashi charged at Kakuzu, but then Kakuzu outsped Kakashi? It's not blitzing?

When you attack someone and they attack back, you still can use your speed to dodge, the face is Pein's reaction speed wasn't fast enough.

Where the fuck did Kisame come up?

This is SASUKE we're talking about.

Nobody asked you to read my posts, you could put me in your ignore list for all I care.

The Manga is law too, plus we trust the Manga more than the databooks. A lot of the things that are stated in databooks contradict the Manga.

We trust the Manga first.

Do you honestly trust the databooks before the Manga?

[Nikushimi]

Tsunade did go full out in the Sannin fight. Plus, Jiraiya is superior to Orochimaru as well.

None of that is confirmed. With Manda and Edo Tensei, I think Orochimaru would battle Sennin Moodo Jiraiya rather evenly, especially with Oohebi form as a last resort. Tsunade also didn't get anywhere near enough time and was not pushed far enough to use her major Jutsu in that fight, so I think it's unfair to say that's all she had.

Raikiri is just a nickname for Chidori, nothing indicates that Kakashi upgraded it.

Maybe so. But again, I don't see the problem. You're looking at scanslated descriptions rather than statistical numbers.

Oh? So that's part inaccurate, and the rest aren't?

Who knows? Do you speak Japanese or French? I speak a little, but nowhere near enough to read either of the officially-written databook languages.

Databooks also said Pre-Neji's speed in on par with Kakashi's.

Again, same deal. Although, statistically, SRA Neji and pre-Chuunin Exams Kakashi both had tier 4 Speed. The tiers are general "leagues" of ability, however, not specific benchmarks.

Tayuya has a 5 in genjutsu, so she has genjutsu on Itachi's level?

Again, tiers are meant to give a general idea. Tier 5 is the largest of the tiers, having no roof limit.

Manga>databooks>anime.

Funny you should say that, when the databooks are specific, written, broken-down analyses by the author of the manga himself, meant for the purpose of explaining details of the mechanics of his manga.

If Jiraiya was as slow as Pre-Sakura, Pein would've dodged it. I don't care if it was blitzing or not, still an incredible speed feat.

How? Who says Skinny Pein is any faster than Kakashi by himself?

Plus, by your logic of blitzing, if Kakashi charged at Kakuzu, but then Kakuzu outsped Kakashi? It's not blitzing?

I hate being a picky bastard, I really do, but Kakuzu overtook Kakashi. He technically met the criteria of "going on the offensive". Even so, I wouldn't quite call it blitzing, because to be fair to you, I guess the line is rather thinly-drawn there.

When you attack someone and they attack back, you still can use your speed to dodge, the face is Pein's reaction speed wasn't fast enough.

Yeah, generally, when you run right into something, it's hard to dodge it. :zaru

And, again, Skinny Pein's speed is...?

Where the fuck did Kisame come up?

:dupe

This is SASUKE we're talking about.

It was just an example, geez...

Nobody asked you to read my posts, you could put me in your ignore list for all I care.

I don't run away from people or what they have to say. I'm more partial to making them run/block me. :zaru

The Manga is law too, plus we trust the Manga more than the databooks. A lot of the things that are stated in databooks contradict the Manga.

We trust the Manga first.

Do you honestly trust the databooks before the Manga?

Both are equally-valid, neither being more correct than the other. The manga is the manga. It is the material produced by the creator. The databooks are a guide to the minor details of that manga that could otherwise be left up to question. It is the creator's explanation of the material he produced.

As far as I've seen, there are no "contradictions". It may not sit right you, but I think that's more indicative of your own incorrectness, not that of the databooks. I mean, give me some room here, I can either believe you or I can believe Kishimoto.

[TheKnownTRUTH]

Itachi or even Sasuke take down Pein solo. How? Well, Pein has the Rinnegan on his side. But, Weasel and Sauce have Kishimoto oh their side :zaru

lol best one ive heard

[Truepotential]

Again, same deal. Although, statistically, SRA Neji and pre-Chuunin Exams Kakashi both had tier 4 Speed. The tiers are general "leagues" of ability, however, not specific benchmarks.


Kakashi was reacting and countering Itachi's techniques.

Again, tiers are meant to give a general idea. Tier 5 is the largest of the tiers, having no roof limit.

Exactly, two people who have a 4 in speed, and one may be much faster.

I hate being a picky bastard, I really do, but Kakuzu overtook Kakashi. He technically met the criteria of "going on the offensive". Even so, I wouldn't quite call it blitzing, because to be fair to you, I guess the line is rather thinly-drawn there.

Can I say he outsped him?

Yeah, generally, when you run right into something, it's hard to dodge it.

And, again, Skinny Pein's speed is...?

Skinny Pein first charged at Jiraiya, then Jiraiya shunshin'd.

It wasn't Jiraiya started charging, then Pein ran into him.

Dude, I can just as easily say since the CS2 fodder first charged at Sasuke, so Sasuke didn't blitz him?

Still want to see a greater speed feat from Sasuke.

How? Who says Skinny Pein is any faster than Kakashi by himself?


Kakashi isn't slow....

Both are equally-valid, neither being more correct than the other. The manga is the manga. It is the material produced by the creator. The databooks are a guide to the minor details of that manga that could otherwise be left up to question. It is the creator's explanation of the material he produced

Exactly, databooks are just a guide that gives details of the manga, the real manga is the true source of Naruto, and obviously more important.

Real Manga action and skill are more accurate than statistics.

I also recall it saying Nidaime was stronger than Shodai.

But, Shodai defeated Madara. You tell me which is more accurate real manga fights/battles or statistics.

[Nikushimi]

Kakashi was reacting and countering Itachi's techniques.

Shouten Itachi. Which had absolutely no desire to do him any real harm AND still managed to avoid getting a single hit from him.

Exactly, two people who have a 4 in speed, and one may be much faster.

So I don't see the problem with trusting the statistics. That's why I said "statistically", Iruka was equal to the SRA team, meaning in their general league.

Can I say he outsped him?

You can say whatever the peck you want. :zaru

But yes, "outsped" would be more accurate. Words are words, though, and speed is speed. It's really just pointless wordgames, and I was purposely being over-technical to bug you. :zaru

Skinny Pein first charged at Jiraiya, then Jiraiya shunshin'd.

It wasn't Jiraiya started charging, then Pein ran into him.

Whoa, what? Jiraiya Shunshin'd? Uh-uh. I don't think so. I saw no "Shunshin"- I saw a kick, plain and simple.

If someone is running at you, you can bring your foot up to kick them, and chances are, they won't be able to stop in time, because they're opposing their own speed + your kicking speed. Physics, mayn. Physics. :zaru

Dude, I can just as easily say since the CS2 fodder first charged at Sasuke, so Sasuke didn't blitz him?

Maybe so. But IIRC, the guard was at a distance, and Sasuke Shun-Po'd him Byakuya-style. In base form.

Still want to see a greater speed feat from Sasuke.

Sasuke in base form was enough to force Deidara airborne to be able to fight him. Deidara was armless, running low on chakra and clay, and was still fast enough to tangle with a Jinchuuriki and a couple of Jounin, along with some Chuunin.

Hell, base Sasuke also ran circles around Team 7. Naruto and Sakura could at least make Kakashi work hard in a fight, but were completely helpless against Sasuke, even with help from Sai, Yamato, and the KWGoD. :zaru

Skinny Pein has shown about as much speed feats as Tenten. Kicking Tenten @ 300km/h and blinding her=not very impressive. :zaru

Kakashi isn't slow....

Definitely not, but he's a far cry from Itachi and Sasuke, that's for sure.

Exactly, databooks are just a guide that gives details of the manga, the real manga is the true source of Naruto, and obviously more important.

Real Manga action and skill are more accurate than statistics.

I also recall it saying Nidaime was stronger than Shodai.

But, Shodai defeated Madara. You tell me which is more accurate real manga fights/battles or statistics.

I'm pretty sure Kishimoto knows more about his manga than you do, so saying that the manga is more accurate is flawed, because reading the manga only leads to what you can glean from it. The databooks go beyond that and explain everything in Kishimoto's words, with Kishimoto's reasoning and Kishimoto's far-reaching knowledge, of the series that he created. It may not be as specific as some of us would like it to be, but oh well; it's still perfectly valid in serving its purpose and explains many things that would otherwise be left to speculation.

If Nidai>Shodai is what it says, then so be it. First of all, Madara was young, stupid, and probably relatively weak when he fought Shodai; I personally think he just had fancy eyes, which goes back to the "weapon/skill" metaphor. Second, we haven't seen either Shodai OR Nidai in an honest fight, so we don't know the extents of either of their abilities. Nidai may have had the most AoE, Bijuu-crushing Super Jutsu in the whole Narutoverse. We may not know it, but Kishimoto does. That's why his word is more credible than your interpretations- because he knows things we don't.

[Cyphon]

[QUOTE]They wore flak jackets and had headbands. They were at least Chuunin-level, and fodder or not, defeating a thousand is impressive. Sasuke has also grossly immasculated Team 7, Orochimaru's Stage Two guards, and even Juugo and Suigetsu simultaneously while in base form. Hell, in base form alone, he's already a hop, skip, and a jump above any of Konoha's elite Jounin.

Defeating 1000 fodder is not impressive, if it even was that many. Fodder means they probably had no skill at all. If they were actually ninja with some skill, then yes it would be impressive. Like Minato blitzing 100 jounin or however many without breaking a sweat. Fodder yes, but at least we know how many and at what level they were at.

I'm sure if you compared that Sasuke's abilities to the abilities of current Sasuke or current Itachi, the term "fodder" wouldn't even come close to describing how pathetic he would seem. Thus, if that Sasuke can handle a summon of that size that easily, I don't see why Sasuke couldn't just slice up the Cerberus summon with his katana before it could pass shit at the fact that it's fighting an Ushiha. In base form.

He may be able to handle the summon, but i doubt it would be simple, and that would be coupled with having to fight 1 or 2 other bodies and a large summon.

Summons aren't as unbeatable as you think. Jiraiya picked up the Cerberus summon and tossed it/knocked it back. He even smashed Pein's ROCKLOBSTER and tore it apart with his hair. Itachi and Sasuke would need basic Taijutsu/Ninjutsu to beat most of Pein's summons.

Jiraiya is the summon master and above Sasuke's level as a ninja. Taijutsu is probably not going to work. Ninjutsu may, but it would have to be strong.

Like I said, Sasuke handled an army of over a thousand. I doubt numbers make any difference, especially when there's two sets of Sharingan scouting the battlefield.

Numbers make all the difference when they aren't fodder.





I'm sorry you have an inability to change your opinion when you've clearly been proven wrong. :zaru

I guess by proven wrong you mean...you gave your opinion on the subject....hmmm, not the best proof in the world.

Why did Itachi run from Jiraiya? Because he had to? Because he couldn't fight Jiraiya? Or maybe, do you think, he did it because he didn't want to fight Jiraiya? Are you really still hung up on that? Isn't it obvious to you? Tobi said Itachi came to Konoha to remind the village elders and Danzou that he was still around. This was directly linked to Sasuke. He showed up and turned away from Naruto to face Sasuke. He fought Sasuke, defeated Sasuke, and made sure to mentally scar Sasuke. All for Sasuke. On the other hand, we know he was willing to go as far as to murder his own family to preserve the peace of the village. You really think he'd provoke a fight with a Sannin in the middle of the village and endanger the people? You really think he'd kill Jiraiya even if he could? No. Itachi was able to stand up to Jiraiya and escape without hurting a hair on his little head, while Jiraiya put forth his absolute best effort to kill him and failed miserably. Itachi>Jiraiya. NF agrees, Jiraiya agrees, Kishimoto agrees, don't bother them about it. :zaru

Yes he had to, or he would have been eaten by a frog. Do you still not get it? Even if he had no intention of fighting, he would have died. Him not wanting to fight in no way proves he is stronger than anyone. I love how the Uchiha fucking retards jumped right on that statement and think it means something. Well for all of the idiots, here is all that it means....*drum roll*...Itachi was a good guy :amazed. Tobi's motives/honesty is still a thing to be questioned since he is a bad guy bent on the destruction of Konoha, so his statements mean shit right now. NF popularity poll and your opinion on the subject also means shit. If Kishimoto ever were to state it, then yes i would believe it. From what has been shown...Itachi loses. His 2nd best attack > Jiraiya basic summon... WOW! Itachi is so awesome...he really is though smile-big


Now about Sasuke, Orochimaru's "sickness" was brought about by a failing host body. Orochimaru shed that body right at the start of the fight, and was still immediately overwhelmed by Sasuke's superior speed, skill, and power. The only thing- and I mean ONLY thing -that caught Sasuke off-guard was the poison vapors, which could've gotten anyone, regardless of how strong they were. It had nothing to do with ability, it was simply a matter of not knowing. In terms of actual power, Sasuke was lucidly superior to Oohebi Orochimaru. Granted we don't know the scope of that form's power compared to regular Orochimaru, it's pretty safe to say that Orochimaru wouldn't create a monstrosity out of himself like that unless it had some serious bite to go with its bark. Sasuke himself said he had nothing left to learn from Orochimaru, and he proved it. When all was said and done, by the time he absorbed Orochimaru and when he was at his best, I would definitely place Sasuke above Sannin level.

Exactly. "You" would place him above sannin level. However even if that is correct, he would be above Oro level. Sannin is a general term with Jiraiya in the mix...and Sasuke certainly wasn't above him.

[Nikushimi]

Defeating 1000 fodder is not impressive, if it even was that many. Fodder means they probably had no skill at all. If they were actually ninja with some skill, then yes it would be impressive. Like Minato blitzing 100 jounin or however many without breaking a sweat. Fodder yes, but at least we know how many and at what level they were at.

So because Sasuke did it instead of Jiraiya or Minato, the ninja must all be "fodder" and thus it's an unimpressive feat? No.

I already explained in a previous post in this topic the general level of Chuunin ninja, given Iruka's stats and the stats/performances of the post-skip Rookie Nine. Even if the gap between the "fodder" ninja and those guys is substantial, their sheer numbers still makes this feat most definitely impressive.

He may be able to handle the summon, but i doubt it would be simple, and that would be coupled with having to fight 1 or 2 other bodies and a large summon.

So I don't see the problem here, given that most of Pein's summons are "fodder" and that the Pein bodies themselves don't do shit.

Jiraiya is the summon master and above Sasuke's level as a ninja. Taijutsu is probably not going to work. Ninjutsu may, but it would have to be strong.

I doubt Jiraiya is above Sasuke's level. He may have more experience, but when it comes down to speed, power, intelligence, and Jutsu, Sasuke surpasses him in all four, especially speed and intelligence. I can definitely see CS2 Sasuke picking up Cerberus and chucking it like Sennin Moodo Jiraiya did. I mean, that form withstood a direct hit from Deidara's largest C2 bomb and only lost a wing.

Numbers make all the difference when they aren't fodder.

Individually, the Pein bodies ARE fodder by comparison. Their strength lies in their shared, collective consciousness and their abiltiy to coordinate attacks flawlessly. That's great against one person, and may help when fighting someone dangerously-strong, but against two people, both of them dangerously-strong? The numbers advantage isn't much of an advantage anymore.

I guess by proven wrong you mean...you gave your opinion on the subject....hmmm, not the best proof in the world.

Thts a gd thry. :zaru

Yes he had to, or he would have been eaten by a frog. Do you still not get it? Even if he had no intention of fighting, he would have died. Him not wanting to fight in no way proves he is stronger than anyone. I love how the Uchiha fucking retards jumped right on that statement and think it means something. Well for all of the idiots, here is all that it means....*drum roll*...Itachi was a good guy :amazed. Tobi's motives/honesty is still a thing to be questioned since he is a bad guy bent on the destruction of Konoha, so his statements mean shit right now. NF popularity poll and your opinion on the subject also means shit. If Kishimoto ever were to state it, then yes i would believe it. From what has been shown...Itachi loses. His 2nd best attack > Jiraiya basic summon... WOW! Itachi is so awesome...he really is though smile-big

So if I broke into someone's house, not really intending to hurt them, and they pulled a gun on me, and I was forced to give it my all just to escape with my life, does that make me weaker? Uhhh... Quite obviously, you're overlooking (perhaps by choice) that the validity of Itachi's earlier statement is now called into question, as well as the fact that Itachi never TRIED to hurt Jiraiya, thus getting rid of the notion that he COULDN'T. It reveals he's good, yes, but that itself reveals something else: That Itachi can pull his punches and escaped the best effort of someone trying to kill him, that someone being Jiraiya.

Once again, I also like how you assume Gamaguchi Shibari is a basic summon, when basically the entire environment became a weapon, they were already trapped...yeah... I doubt anything would've been more effective.

Exactly. "You" would place him above sannin level. However even if that is correct, he would be above Oro level. Sannin is a general term with Jiraiya in the mix...and Sasuke certainly wasn't above him.

I really don't think Jiraiya is that much better than Orochimaru, if you want to know the truth. Prime Orochimaru, having Edo Tensei, Manda, and Oohebi form, should be able to give Sennin Moodo Jiraiya a run for his money, easily, if not possibly even win.

For the record, I also think Sasuke>Jiraiya. Easily. But of course, you don't see it the same way.

[Cyphon]

[QUOTE]I doubt Jiraiya is above Sasuke's level. He may have more experience, but when it comes down to speed, power, intelligence, and Jutsu, Sasuke surpasses him in all four, especially speed and intelligence. I can definitely see CS2 Sasuke picking up Cerberus and chucking it like Sennin Moodo Jiraiya did. I mean, that form withstood a direct hit from Deidara's largest C2 bomb and only lost a wing.

You lost me here. I could no longer read what you had to say when i realized how little you actually understand. Sasuke stronger than Jiraiya? Jutsu? Speed maybe and intelligence maybe. There is no way he is stronger, they may be even in battle intelligence with an edge for Jiraiya due to experience, speed is probably Sasuke, but we know nothing of Jiraiya's speed really...and jutsu would go to Jiraiya.

[Hatake Riku]

It's not point in arguing with uchitards seriously they going to say anything in their power to make uchiha seem the best. Like niku saying madara was probably young and stupid and didn't know how to use ems yet he was leader of the whole uchiha clan. But cause he was retarded and young he is able to lose to shodai and it don't count as a loss right niku? I really didn't see that part where madara was all noobish vs madara could you link it for me please?
We have yet to see pein at full potential, and if pa says it's the stronger of all doujutsu then ima believe it cause it's coming from the manga itself. But niku of course will make up something of the line of pa not being credible.

[Nikushimi]

You lost me here. I could no longer read what you had to say when i realized how little you actually understand. Sasuke stronger than Jiraiya? Jutsu? Speed maybe and intelligence maybe. There is no way he is stronger, they may be even in battle intelligence with an edge for Jiraiya due to experience, speed is probably Sasuke, but we know nothing of Jiraiya's speed really...and jutsu would go to Jiraiya.

:LOS

Speed: Sasuke (Base)>Deidara>Team Gai. Also, Sasuke (Base)>Team Yamato>Kakashi.

Power: CS2 withstood Deidara's largest C2 bomb, in a direct-hit. CS2 multiplies the power of the user ten-fold. Given Sasuke's already-impressive strength in Base form, measuring up into tier 3.5 even pre-skip, I'd say that's definitely enough of a boost post-skip to put him past Jiraiya. I mean, 10x is...wow. Meanwhile, what has Jiraiya done? Kicked...Skinny Pein...lol?

Intelligence: Sasuke figured out Deidara's weakness almost right away, all on his own. Jiraiya needed To-chan and Kaa-chan to give him a dumbed-down explanation of Rinnegan working like a security booth, and had to have them devise a strategy. Sasuke is a smarter fighter, without question.

Jutsu: Sasuke has Kirin, Snake Bulimia, a host of various Chidori rape Jutsus, some Itachi-level Katons, SUMMONS (which you seem to like so much), and, of course, the Juin to maximize the power of these techniques. Keep in mind, it was also stated that Sasuke had gained access to ALL of Orochimaru's Jutsu and abilities. Regeneration is also something to consider.

[Nikushimi]

It's not point in arguing with uchitards seriously they going to say anything in their power to make uchiha seem the best. Like niku saying madara was probably young and stupid and didn't know how to use ems yet he was leader of the whole uchiha clan. But cause he was retarded and young he is able to lose to shodai and it don't count as a loss right niku? I really didn't see that part where madara was all noobish vs madara could you link it for me please?
We have yet to see pein at full potential, and if pa says it's the stronger of all doujutsu then ima believe it cause it's coming from the manga itself. But niku of course will make up something of the line of pa not being credible.

There are some things you need to get straight:

1. I am NOT an Uchihatard. I hate the Uchiha with a burning passion, especially that asshole Saucegay. Itachi is the only one I like. Madara is currently on the fence, and I can't really decide if he's shit or decent; he has qualities I both like and hate, and only the future can determine which side will out-weigh the other.

2. Think about the environment Madara grew up in compared to the environment Itachi grew up in. The random child of a barbaric clan who achieved power almost accidentally through a mockery of fate by killing his best friend and mysteriously gaining some funky new eye-hax, compared to the pampered genius who received formal military training and was raised to be the elite of the elite. Madara got stronger through bloodbath clan wars, Itachi got stronger through dedicated practice. To tell you the truth, we really know NOTHING about Young Madara's abilities. But we DO know that better eyes do not make the better man.

3. Expanding off of that last sentence, the statement that "Rinnegan>other Doujutsu" was made by Jiraiya. Jiraiya probably wouldn't have any knowledge of Mangekyou Sharingan, since it was a closely-guarded clan secret, let alone Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. And, once again, better eyes don't make you better.

[Gary]

pein wins but since sasuke has the ms but he doesn't know how to use it and since pein can get his bodys from the dead he is going to be alive for awhile

[amaterasujutsu]

pein wins but since sasuke has the ms but he doesn't know how to use it and since pein can get his bodys from the dead he is going to be alive for awhile

We do not know what is the extend of Pein's abilities yet. Based on hype, many people on this forum seem to think that Pein can beat both Itachi and Sasuke combine is beyond belief.

Since I don't know much about Pein's ability, that is why I can't think how Pein can handle two full flesh Uchihas who are the prodigy of the clan of geniuses.

I don't see how Pein can beat those two.

[Gary]

We do not know what is the extend of Pein's abilities yet. Based on hype, many people on this forum seem to think that Pein can beat both Itachi and Sasuke combine is beyond belief.

Since I don't know much about Pein's ability, that is why I can't think how Pein can handle two full flesh Uchihas who are the prodigy of the clan of geniuses.

I don't see how Pein can beat those two.

lets see how it looks like not until they know peins secret can he die which is pretty broken =/

[Nikushimi]

lets see how it looks like not until they know peins secret can he die which is pretty broken =/

Knowing Pein's secret isn't the only way to beat him. It was more or less Jiraiya's only chance, but that doesn't mean no one else could beat him otherwise.

There's really no way Pein can handle either of the Uchiha brothers alone without being forced to the limits of his ability. Both of them at once is out of the question.

[Hatake Riku]

So after stomping madara, shodaime didn't tell anyone of the ems cause he figured no need to tell anyone of the potential of the uchiha? I'm definitely sure jiraiya knew about it. Sides pa is the one who says it. Everyone knows madara fought shodaime with ems or if shodaime did thought it was just a regular odd looking sharingan, I'm sure he told people about it.
Hell this is probably why they wanted to exterminate the uchiha in the first place. Pa said that rinnegan is best doujutsu, jiraiya said something about it being most revered. Until kishi writes differ rinnegan>sharingan of any type.

[Nikushimi]

So after stomping madara, shodaime didn't tell anyone of the ems cause he figured no need to tell anyone of the potential of the uchiha? I'm definitely sure jiraiya knew about it. Sides pa is the one who says it. Everyone knows madara fought shodaime with ems or if shodaime did thought it was just a regular odd looking sharingan, I'm sure he told people about it.
Hell this is probably why they wanted to exterminate the uchiha in the first place. Pa said that rinnegan is best doujutsu, jiraiya said something about it being most revered. Until kishi writes differ rinnegan>sharingan of any type.

There's no doubt Shodai realized that EMS was no ordinary Sharingan. And while I also agree he must've told his trusted kinsmen about it, I doubt they knew enough about it to do anything other than keep their guard up. After all, didn't Nidai assign the Uchiha to be the police force so that the Senju could keep an eye on them? Yeah...

But that doesn't translate over to Jiraiya knowing about it. As far as we know, he's not a Senju, and according to Itachi's direct statements, Mangekyou Sharingan is a clan secret. Fugaku barely even knew about it, and he was the clan's leader. Hell, Jiraiya himself was taken completely aback and was dumbfounded after Itachi used Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, and had NO idea what the fuck he just witnessed.

[muishot]

lets see how it looks like not until they know peins secret can he die which is pretty broken =/

You must forget, Sasuke can just cut off their limbs and there is nothing about Pein's abilities that says he can reconnect body parts.

[muishot]

We do not know what is the extend of Pein's abilities yet. Based on hype, many people on this forum seem to think that Pein can beat both Itachi and Sasuke combine is beyond belief.

Since I don't know much about Pein's ability, that is why I can't think how Pein can handle two full flesh Uchihas who are the prodigy of the clan of geniuses.

I don't see how Pein can beat those two.

I totally agree. I too don't see how Pein can handle the Uchiha brothers at the same time.

[muishot]

:LOS

Speed: Sasuke (Base)>Deidara>Team Gai. Also, Sasuke (Base)>Team Yamato>Kakashi.

Power: CS2 withstood Deidara's largest C2 bomb, in a direct-hit. CS2 multiplies the power of the user ten-fold. Given Sasuke's already-impressive strength in Base form, measuring up into tier 3.5 even pre-skip, I'd say that's definitely enough of a boost post-skip to put him past Jiraiya. I mean, 10x is...wow. Meanwhile, what has Jiraiya done? Kicked...Skinny Pein...lol?

Intelligence: Sasuke figured out Deidara's weakness almost right away, all on his own. Jiraiya needed To-chan and Kaa-chan to give him a dumbed-down explanation of Rinnegan working like a security booth, and had to have them devise a strategy. Sasuke is a smarter fighter, without question.

Jutsu: Sasuke has Kirin, Snake Bulimia, a host of various Chidori rape Jutsus, some Itachi-level Katons, SUMMONS (which you seem to like so much), and, of course, the Juin to maximize the power of these techniques. Keep in mind, it was also stated that Sasuke had gained access to ALL of Orochimaru's Jutsu and abilities. Regeneration is also something to consider.

Good Point.

[archtirials]

Pein will obviously need more than 6 bodies to handle the two elite Uchiha.

[Agony]

to:TruePotential
dude,its impossible for pein to win against two uchihas.ok?

[Cyphon]

:LOS

[QUOTE]Speed: Sasuke (Base)>Deidara>Team Gai. Also, Sasuke (Base)>Team Yamato>Kakashi.

Not sure how this relates to anything. This shows nothing of Jiraiya's speed or where it stands, plus he only outsped Naruto completely. Deidara reacted fast enough to get off a C1, Sai was able to block Sasuke, Yamato was able to go from behind Sasuke to in b/t him and Sakura. His speed is not as crazy as you try and make it sound. Deidara did end up saying he was fast, but his speed has never given him any clear victory over anyone except Naruto and probably Sakura. Any tough opponent Sasuke fought has been able to negate his speed.

Power: CS2 withstood Deidara's largest C2 bomb, in a direct-hit. CS2 multiplies the power of the user ten-fold. Given Sasuke's already-impressive strength in Base form, measuring up into tier 3.5 even pre-skip, I'd say that's definitely enough of a boost post-skip to put him past Jiraiya. I mean, 10x is...wow. Meanwhile, what has Jiraiya done? Kicked...Skinny Pein...lol?

What does his defensive wings have to do with power? And did it say in the manga that it increases power 10 fold? Page please. Jiraiya is clearly one of the stronger characters in the manga, when it comes to just power. Sasuke's wings taking on a bomb has nothing to do with power, that was a terrible example.

Intelligence: Sasuke figured out Deidara's weakness almost right away, all on his own. Jiraiya needed To-chan and Kaa-chan to give him a dumbed-down explanation of Rinnegan working like a security booth, and had to have them devise a strategy. Sasuke is a smarter fighter, without question.

I will give you that Sasuke has shown more intelligence in battle. I guess Jiraiya just looked smart because he simply outclasses most with raw skill. I was looking at his battle decisions more than his actual thought process. Like using the stomach in the building to protect Naruto and be able to fend off 2 very strong opponents. It seems like he is an expert at using the exact right attack very quickly.

Jutsu: Sasuke has Kirin, Snake Bulimia, a host of various Chidori rape Jutsus, some Itachi-level Katons, SUMMONS (which you seem to like so much), and, of course, the Juin to maximize the power of these techniques. Keep in mind, it was also stated that Sasuke had gained access to ALL of Orochimaru's Jutsu and abilities. Regeneration is also something to consider.

Jiraiya has Frog stomach, Needle Jizzou, a host of rasengan rape jutsus, Itachi level katons, SUMMONS (which you seem to like to make all caps when you type) and of course HM to maximize the power of these techniques. Keep in mind he is also able to hide out in frogs and barriers and be almost untouchable by doing so, not to mention he has arguably the strongest genjutsu in the manga on a level with Tsukiyami.

[-Deidara-]

Pein wins, by trying.

[TheKnownTRUTH]

Pein wins with moderate difficulty

[jove003]

6 elements, True Power of Rinnegan, 6 bodies, Chakra blades, Summons, etc.

Pein wins.

[Nikushimi]

6 elements, True Power of Rinnegan, 6 bodies, Chakra blades, Summons, etc.

Pein wins.

Mangekyou Sharingan, Amaterasu, Susano'o, Kirin, Snake Bulimia, summons, Juin, etc.

How is Pein going to do anything except...die? :zaru

[Truepotential]

Shouten Itachi. Which had absolutely no desire to do him any real harm AND still managed to avoid getting a single hit from him.

No, it was their duty to defeat and stop the two Konoha teams, but they obviously underestimated them...so they only managed to stall them for a while, which was good enough anyways.

Whoa, what? Jiraiya Shunshin'd? Uh-uh. I don't think so. I saw no "Shunshin"- I saw a kick, plain and simple.

If someone is running at you, you can bring your foot up to kick them, and chances are, they won't be able to stop in time, because they're opposing their own speed + your kicking speed. Physics, mayn. Physics.

Skinny Pein was running at Jiraiya, but at the time he didn't reach Jiraiya in melee range.
Jiraiya reacted the Pein's shunshin then countered with a good old Shunshin kick.

Sasuke in base form was enough to force Deidara airborne to be able to fight him. Deidara was armless, running low on chakra and clay, and was still fast enough to tangle with a Jinchuuriki and a couple of Jounin, along with some Chuunin.

Hell, base Sasuke also ran circles around Team 7. Naruto and Sakura could at least make Kakashi work hard in a fight, but were completely helpless against Sasuke, even with help from Sai, Yamato, and the KWGoD.

Skinny Pein has shown about as much speed feats as Tenten. Kicking Tenten @ 300km/h and blinding her=not very impressive

Not Yamato.

I think we can assume that one of the bodies, who defeated Hanzou isn't at fodder speed.

Deidara, being the arrogant bastard he is, was just testing Sasuke at melee range. His overall style is far range anyways.

Definitely not, but he's a far cry from Itachi and Sasuke, that's for sure.

How?

Pre-skip Kakashi reacted to Itachi's attacks, and yes he did wanted to hurt him if he Tsukiyomi'd him right after.

I'm pretty sure Kishimoto knows more about his manga than you do, so saying that the manga is more accurate is flawed, because reading the manga only leads to what you can glean from it. The databooks go beyond that and explain everything in Kishimoto's words, with Kishimoto's reasoning and Kishimoto's far-reaching knowledge, of the series that he created. It may not be as specific as some of us would like it to be, but oh well; it's still perfectly valid in serving its purpose and explains many things that would otherwise be left to speculation.

You do realize the databooks contradict the manga, and vise versa, so you have to pick a more accurate side...or it wouldn't make sense.

[Final Jutsu]

Ill say pain.. too much is unknown, and he WILL be broken.

[Nikushimi]

No, it was their duty to defeat and stop the two Konoha teams, but they obviously underestimated them...so they only managed to stall them for a while, which was good enough anyways.

Itachi isn't very fond of taking orders. Or haven't you noticed?

Skinny Pein was running at Jiraiya, but at the time he didn't reach Jiraiya in melee range.
Jiraiya reacted the Pein's shunshin then countered with a good old Shunshin kick.

Neither of them Shunshin'd. Shunshin involves a body flicker, hence...the name "Shunshin" ("Instant/Flickering Body").

Not Yamato.

I think we can assume that one of the bodies, who defeated Hanzou isn't at fodder speed.

Deidara, being the arrogant bastard he is, was just testing Sasuke at melee range. His overall style is far range anyways.

Yamato was blitzed too. And this is still base Sasuke we're talking about.

Defeating someone isn't all about speed. None of Pein's bodies were shown to be fast, but neither was Hanzou. They beat him through raw superiority.

The fact that Deidara remarked on Sasuke's speed, despite being fast in his own right, says enough.

How?

Pre-skip Kakashi reacted to Itachi's attacks, and yes he did wanted to hurt him if he Tsukiyomi'd him right after.

Kakashi came right out and stated Itachi wasn't using anywhere near his full power against them. Tsukuyomi was used to decommission Kakashi without actually injuring him. Probably why Itachi didn't let Kisame do the fighting.

You do realize the databooks contradict the manga, and vise versa, so you have to pick a more accurate side...or it wouldn't make sense.

You need to get a few things straight:

1. The databooks were written by the author of the manga; they are official.

2. The databooks don't contradict the manga, they contradict your own interpretations of the manga, because your knowledge of the manga is limited to what you can understand from only what you've seen. Kishimoto knows the beginning to the end through-and-through; his word supercedes yours by every measure.

3. There is no "more accurate side". The manga is the creator's work. The databooks are the analyses of that work, by the creator himself, in the creator's own words. The same words he used to construct the manga in the first place.

[Truepotential]

Itachi isn't very fond of taking orders. Or haven't you noticed?

He still had to trick Konoha, that he was working for Akatsuki.

Itachi didn't care about the Sand Village, and Itachi wanted to win, you can beat someone by not killing.

Neither of them Shunshin'd. Shunshin involves a body flicker, hence...the name "Shunshin" ("Instant/Flickering Body").

Explain how Jiraiya moved instantly from where he was to where Pein was.

Running isn't that fast.

Yamato was blitzed too. And this is still base Sasuke we're talking about.

Defeating someone isn't all about speed. None of Pein's bodies were shown to be fast, but neither was Hanzou. They beat him through raw superiority.

The fact that Deidara remarked on Sasuke's speed, despite being fast in his own right, says enough.


Manga scan of CS2 Sasuke being any faster?

Lee actually said CS2 slowed down Kimimaro.

Yamato reacted to his speed with a Kunai, he was hit because he didn't know the piercing power of Sasuke's blade.

Unless you're Naruto who can make it 1000 V 1, speed is important.

I know Sasuke is fast.....

A drugged Jiraiya had the reaction speed to react to Orochimaru's tongue stretching jutsu, which same jutsu hit KN4.

Hermit Mode Jiraiya didn't get a scratch on him when fighting the 3 bodies of Pein, he only retreated because of haxx shared vision.

Kakashi came right out and stated Itachi wasn't using anywhere near his full power against them. Tsukuyomi was used to decommission Kakashi without actually injuring him. Probably why Itachi didn't let Kisame do the fighting.


Where?

After Kakashi came out of genjutsu?

Sasuke is fast, but no faster than Itachi. When Itachi got serious, Sasuke failed to blitz him and Sasuke got slammed onto the wall in taijutsu.

Both times when Itachi had no MS, he failed to defeat Kakashi. At full power, Itachi would stomp Kakashi. Itachi without MS is either equal or even a little weaker than Kakashi.

Kakashi might beat Itachi without MS by pulling out his own.

[Nikushimi]

He still had to trick Konoha, that he was working for Akatsuki.

Itachi didn't care about the Sand Village, and Itachi wanted to win, you can beat someone by not killing.

Itachi may not care for Suna, but he's still a good person with deep morals and whatnot. War trauma will do that to a 4-year-old.

Also, Itachi was at 30% capacity and lacked Mangekyou, so he couldn't have beat them without actually having to do so physically, which means they could get hurt.

Explain how Jiraiya moved instantly from where he was to where Pein was.

Running isn't that fast.

Jiraiya didn't move. Pein was running at him, i.e., closing the distance between them. Jiraiya just raised his foot and nailed him in the face with his shin.

Manga scan of CS2 Sasuke being any faster?

Every time we see Sasuke use the Juin (Zaku, Naruto, Itachi), he gets faster. Stage Two is an even greater increase. Why wouldn't that make him faster?

Lee actually said CS2 slowed down Kimimaro.

Proof? IIRC, Lee almost got one-hit'd by Kimimaro's tail. If Kimimaro had gotten slower, I doubt he would've been able to hit Lee.

Yamato reacted to his speed with a Kunai, he was hit because he didn't know the piercing power of Sasuke's blade.

He reacted with a kunai because he didn't have time to move. Sasuke caught up to him and immediately he had to block it somehow, which failed. And this is still base Sasuke.

Unless you're Naruto who can make it 1000 V 1, speed is important.

90% of the time, doing that usually results in massive clone-ownage by one enemy. See: Neji, Gaara, Kimimaro, Sasuke, etc.

I know Sasuke is fast.....

A drugged Jiraiya had the reaction speed to react to Orochimaru's tongue stretching jutsu, which same jutsu hit KN4.

Hermit Mode Jiraiya didn't get a scratch on him when fighting the 3 bodies of Pein, he only retreated because of haxx shared vision.

Orochimaru never used his tongue on Yonbi Naruto. And actually, Jiraiya got wtfpwned by Orochimaru's tongue.

Sennin Moodo Jiraiya admitted he would be killed if he kept fighting the three Pein bodies with Taijutsu and Ninjutsu like that, so yes, he ran away. This is because they tanked even his fastest technique, the hair needles.

Where?

After Kakashi came out of genjutsu?

Sasuke is fast, but no faster than Itachi. When Itachi got serious, Sasuke failed to blitz him and Sasuke got slammed onto the wall in taijutsu.

Both times when Itachi had no MS, he failed to defeat Kakashi. At full power, Itachi would stomp Kakashi. Itachi without MS is either equal or even a little weaker than Kakashi.

Kakashi might beat Itachi without MS by pulling out his own.

Kakashi saved Kurenai from the Bunshin Bakuha. He told Asuma and Kurenai not to underestimate him, because he had become an ANBU captain at only age 13. Asuma said he didn't expect him to be so strong, but Kakashi said no, he isn't using anywhere near his full power. And at the time, Kakashi didn't even know about Mangekyou Sharingan, let alone its techniques. So that throws your "Kakashi>Itachi w/o MS" theory out the window.

Kakashi doesn't come close to Itachi, ever, with MS, without MS, or even blind w/o Sharingan at all.

[Kai]

3. There is no "more accurate side". The manga is the creator's work. The databooks are the analyses of that work, by the creator himself, in the creator's own words. The same words he used to construct the manga in the first place.
That's wrong. Manga is the primary source, so it takes the higher pedestal in truth. Databook gives retconned information, but can't be put on the same level as the manga.

[Lora]

lol Sasuke speedblitz Pein

Sasuke could not Speedblitz Deidara and you think that Sasuke can speedblitz pein who was keeping up with Heermit Mode please

[Agony]

lol Sasuke speedblitz Pein

Sasuke could not Speedblitz Deidara and you think that Sasuke can speedblitz pein who was keeping up with Heermit Mode please

when did pein keep up with hermit mode's speed?

[copycat123]

when did pein keep up with hermit mode's speed?

Speed has many facets - There was a very good thread about this by Serenity I believe.

In the Pein Vs. HM Jiraya case, it wasn't necessarily that Pein outpaced Jiraya in terms of covering a distance (like in a race).

It was more like Pein's reaction speed was very fast, enough to keep up with Jiraya. No matter what attacks Jiraya threw at himi, Pein already initiated a perfect counter measure to it in time.

(The exception being the song genjutsu but Pein didn't expect or have any idea about it)

:amuse

[Grimmjowsensei]

Both times when Itachi had no MS, he failed to defeat Kakashi. At full power, Itachi would stomp Kakashi. Itachi without MS is either equal or even a little weaker than Kakashi.

Kakashi might beat Itachi without MS by pulling out his own.

Are you...........serious ?

Kakashi could barely keep up with Itachi while Itachi was only fooling around. He was all on the defensive, and Itachi wasn't even serious.

Itachi without any sharingan usage could be a fair matchup for Kakashi. maybe.

[Empirejoao]

I don't get why people would put Pain in such a battle when he hasn't (even nearly) gone all out.

[Agony]

Speed has many facets - There was a very good thread about this by Serenity I believe.

In the Pein Vs. HM Jiraya case, it wasn't necessarily that Pein outpaced Jiraya in terms of covering a distance (like in a race).

It was more like Pein's reaction speed was very fast, enough to keep up with Jiraya. No matter what attacks Jiraya threw at himi, Pein already initiated a perfect counter measure to it in time.

(The exception being the song genjutsu but Pein didn't expect or have any idea about it)

:amuse
pein was catching up HM's speed because of rinnegan.if pein only has one body,his dead.

[dandyman]

If Jiraiya would have won if he had known the secret of Pain I think these two high-class shinobi would probably take Pain down as he is now. However we don't know Rinnegan's full power yet.

[copycat123]

pein was catching up HM's speed because of rinnegan.if pein only has one body,his dead.

yes that is very likely a part of rinnegan's power and shouldn't be used against Pein.

It's like saying without sharingan, Itachi and Sasuke will lose their movement perception ability and is pretty much dead.

[Agony]

yes that is very likely a part of rinnegan's power and shouldn't be used against Pein.

It's like saying without sharingan, Itachi and Sasuke will lose their movement perception ability and is pretty much dead.

i agree wad u're saying.let's go back to the pein vs itachi and sasuke fight.:P

sasuke and itachi also has high speed.itachi can uses genjutsu easily on pein.sasuke too.both of them will pwn pein with genjutsu.pein is clueless against genjutsu.both has MS,they could use susanoo together.pein will get rapestomp.

[Lora]

Well atleast 1 of the bodies was as fast and strong as HM jiraiya smacking him through a building jiraiya unable to defend himself at all

[Nikushimi]

That's wrong. Manga is the primary source, so it takes the higher pedestal in truth. Databook gives retconned information, but can't be put on the same level as the manga.

"Retconned information"?

No.

Kishimoto said "Here, this is the manga, the work which I have produced." Then he came along later and said "Here, these are the databooks, which go into detail using my own words to describe the work which I have produced."

It is the creator's description of his own work. They are both equivalent primary sources.

[Hiruzen]

We have seen all of Itachi, but Pein has a lot more to show us mwahahahah.

[Xion]

The God of the series versus two inexperienced fodder nins?

I would have to give this to God!

[Nikushimi]

The God of the series versus two inexperienced fodder nins?

I would have to give this to God!

"Fodder nins"?

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6291/itachideathstaruf5.jpg

[Hiruzen]

Sasuke is fodder compared to Pein, Itachi isnt.

[Nikushimi]

Sasuke is fodder compared to Pein, Itachi isnt.

Sasuke isn't THAT far from Itachi's level. He would still give Pein a near-equal fight and be one hell of a bitch to bring down.

[Rescuebear]

Sasuke might stand a better chance...
I still think based on Pains immunities that Itachis MS would be a waste of chakra in this fight.

[Nikushimi]

Sasuke might stand a better chance...
I still think based on Pains immunities that Itachis MS would be a waste of chakra in this fight.

Mangekyou Sharingan isn't the only thing Itachi has going for him. He would wear them down first with his non-Mangekyou techniques, maybe take out a body, get backed into a corner, then resort to Amaterasu (Tsukuyomi probably wouldn't work), which could eliminate two or three bodies AT LEAST right off the bat. That leaves Pein with less than half the bodies he had since the start and Itachi severely fatigued with maybe minor injuries. Then comes Susano'o, which IMO is enough to give Itachi the win. It's close, but until Pein shows a counter for Susano'o and its items, I'm giving the win to Itachi.

The addition of Sasuke makes this rape, since together, the Uchiha brothers can form Kirin and vaporize him @ 1,000m/s. Wut u gonna d- U GONNA DO NOTHIN'; U GONNA DIE.

[Xion]

"Fodder nins"?

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6291/itachideathstaruf5.jpg

Oh noes. Twenty points lost. :cry

My laser's fifty times bigger than yours. :LOS

Someone ignores canon and the fact that Pain has the most powerful doujutsu in the world and who beat Jiraiya without much effort. The same Jiraiya Itachi said him and Kisame didn't stand a chance of beating...only drawing in the best case.

[muishot]

Sasuke might stand a better chance...
I still think based on Pains immunities that Itachis MS would be a waste of chakra in this fight.

People seem to easily forget the fact that Itachi was infront of Death's door at the beginning of the battle between himself and Sasuke. He was extremely fatigue.

Second, Itachi was never intended to kill Sasuke. And from Zetsu's comments and Mardara, Itachi even without MS is still a league above Sasuke. The fact that he was almost dead from the start of the fight and the fact that he wasn't intending to kill Sasuke, do you know how much Itachi has hold back in that fight?

I can't believe you downplay Itachi's abilities like that. He himself although I do not know if he could defeat Pein, but he would give Pein a lot of trouble. Now we add the Sasuke with Orochimaru's power in the mix, I can't see Pein winning this. I don't know who will win but Pein cannot win like some of you might want to believe.

[Rescuebear]

I didn't mean that Itachi was out classed.
What i meant was because all of Itachi's MS moves are high chakra draining and theres a chance none of them would work, he might be better off using his chakra for other things and playing it safe.

[reddogs52]

I really think pein cant even beat sauske now that sauske proly has ems so he has 4 eye techniques that are most likely capable of destroying multiple bodys by them selfs but use all 4 and its a win :) my theory is that sauske will actually be the final villain after killing madara

[copycat123]

i agree wad u're saying.let's go back to the pein vs itachi and sasuke fight.:P

sasuke and itachi also has high speed.itachi can uses genjutsu easily on pein.sasuke too.both of them will pwn pein with genjutsu.pein is clueless against genjutsu.both has MS,they could use susanoo together.pein will get rapestomp.


What do you mean by both have MS and Susanoo. If Itachi is alive, the implicit assumption is Sasuke doesn't have the MS techniques (at least when the OP was created).

Pein wastes Sasuke before Sasuke even knows what he is dealing with. Then Pein Vs. Itachi battle starts and Pein shows Itachi why he is reserved for the main protagonist (while Itachi is taken out much earlier) :P

[Agony]

What do you mean by both have MS and Susanoo. If Itachi is alive, the implicit assumption is Sasuke doesn't have the MS techniques (at least when the OP was created).

Pein wastes Sasuke before Sasuke even knows what he is dealing with. Then Pein Vs. Itachi battle starts and Pein shows Itachi why he is reserved for the main protagonist (while Itachi is taken out much earlier) :P
try to prove tat pein is stronger then itachi.prove it.dont give me 'because he's leader of akatsuki' or 'because he's a god.'

[Rescuebear]

try to prove tat pein is stronger then itachi.prove it.dont give me 'because he's leader of akatsuki' or 'because he's a god.'
Why don't you go ahead and prove that he isn't...

[Agony]

Why don't you go ahead and prove that he isn't...

pein has shown nothing tat can overcome itachi's susanoo,amaterasu.he only increases bodies.a weak itachi uses amaterasu twice tsukyomi once and susanoo.tsukiyomi cause a lot chakra and he still manage to uses amaterasu twice and susanoo while he's sick.he can use more then tat if he's healthy.tat had already prove tat itachi can overcome the pein he know for now.

[Lord Genome]

Itachi dies of heart attack and sasuke goes in a corner and cries

[Agony]

Itachi dies of heart attack and sasuke goes in a corner and cries

since the OP says no limit,itachi is healthy so no heart attack.

[Rescuebear]

pein has shown nothing tat can overcome itachi's susanoo,amaterasu.he only increases bodies.a weak itachi uses amaterasu twice tsukyomi once and susanoo.tsukiyomi cause a lot chakra and he still manage to uses amaterasu twice and susanoo while he's sick.he can use more then tat if he's healthy.tat had already prove tat itachi can overcome the pein he know for now.

1st- Amaterasu is a ninjitsu so thus we would assume Pains Ninjitsu absorbing body could possible just absorb it.

2nd- Tsukiyomi would prove about as effective as Jaraiya's Frog song Genjitsu or any other genjitsu for that matter, Any bodies not caught would see straight through the illusion.

3rd- Susanoo's attack is another Genjitsu, thus would be ineffective against Pain. Its defence could be a ninjitsu thus pains ninjitsu absorbing body would just absorb it, though its unlikely. Thus Susanoo's defense is the only thing Itachi has, and as stated before i remain unconvinced that it has no weakness.

[Agony]

1st- Amaterasu is a ninjitsu so thus we would assume Pains Ninjitsu absorbing body could possible just absorb it.
so if amaterasu burning pein and he still could absorb it?amaterasu is not an attack tat goes forward like ultimate rasengan.its an atack tat appears.fat guy wont even have a chance to absorb.
2nd- Tsukiyomi would prove about as effective as Jaraiya's Frog song Genjitsu or any other genjitsu for that matter, Any bodies not caught would see straight through the illusion.
tsukiyomi attacks ur brain.its not like a normal genjutsu tat u have to go in front of ur enemy and uses weapons to kill them.
3rd- Susanoo's attack is another Genjitsu, thus would be ineffective against Pain. Its defence could be a ninjitsu thus pains ninjitsu absorbing body would just absorb it, though its unlikely. Thus Susanoo's defense is the only thing Itachi has, and as stated before i remain unconvinced that it has no weakness.
susanoo is a spiritual thing.it cannot be absorb.things being cut by sword of totsuka will be sealed.so tat means pein cannot use the body which has been sealed by susanoo.

the bodies tat jman killed wasnt sealed.so they probably could revive.but being sealed is different then normal killing.

[Grimmjowsensei]

What is preveting Itachi from Instantly Killing fatty with Tsukiyomi, vaporising Summoner and taijutsu pain with Amaterasu, cutting ugly pains throat with shunshin + kunai, bitchslapping menos and yahiko pain with susano'o back and forth and soloing this shit ? I don't get it. Someone tell me.

[Agony]

What is preveting Itachi from Instantly Killing fatty with Tsukiyomi, vaporising Summoner and taijutsu pain with Amaterasu, cutting ugly pains throat with shunshin + kunai, bitchslapping menos and yahiko pain with susano'o back and forth and soloing this shit ? I don't get it. Someone tell me.

people overrate pein just because he's the leader.for now i will say itachi is stronger then pein.maybe pein will be stronger when he show his trueself.for godsake,he shown nothing tat can overcome itachi for NOW.

[Nikushimi]

Oh noes. Twenty points lost. :cry

My laser's fifty times bigger than yours. :LOS

Someone ignores canon and the fact that Pain has the most powerful doujutsu in the world and who beat Jiraiya without much effort. The same Jiraiya Itachi said him and Kisame didn't stand a chance of beating...only drawing in the best case.

It doesn't matter, I mostly use that image on MFG, where I have 11,000+ posts and possess a gargantuan Rep Deathstar that can smite people with a single neg. You're lucky I'm somewhat of a noob here. :LOS

You want canon? Here's canon:

1. Pein's Doujutsu was stated to be the strongest of the main three, by Jiraiya, who by all logic should have zero knowledge of Mangekyou Sharingan, let alone Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan (both of which are tightly-guarded clan secrets that were taken to the grave by almost all of the Uchiha).

2. Jiraiya is a nitwit, and compared to the windshield that is Itachi, nothing more than a wayward, limp-winged fly.

3. Itachi's remarks to Kisame, which have been debated endlessly time and again, show only that Itachi is speculating in regards to a confrontation then and there, in the middle of Konoha, and not in general (since there would be no point in speculation for a scenerio that is compeltely ideal and unreasonable). With recent information, it's also called into question whether or not the statement actually holds any truth AT ALL, or if it may have just been Itachi trying to put the fear of God into Kisame. Indeed, this IS supported by the fact that Kisame was baffled during their retreat, and actually felt it necessary to question Itachi as to why they simply didn't go back and kick Jiraiya around like an infant (because certainly, Kisame could've done so on his own). A key point that is almost always overlooked is the fact that Jiraiya admitted openly that it took everything he had just to manage to chase them off. If anything, it was almost without a doubt a pure attempt on Itachi's part to avoid entering a battle that could potentially endanger the village that he loves so much.

[Truepotential]

Itachi may not care for Suna, but he's still a good person with deep morals and whatnot. War trauma will do that to a 4-year-old.

Also, Itachi was at 30% capacity and lacked Mangekyou, so he couldn't have beat them without actually having to do so physically, which means they could get hurt.


Good people gotta do, what they gotta do.

In the last fight, Itachi beat them, and hurt them.

Jiraiya didn't move. Pein was running at him, i.e., closing the distance between them. Jiraiya just raised his foot and nailed him in the face with his shin.


Raising foot is melee range, Pein wasn't at melee range. That's the whole point of shunshin.

Orochimaru never used his tongue on Yonbi Naruto. And actually, Jiraiya got wtfpwned by Orochimaru's tongue.

Sennin Moodo Jiraiya admitted he would be killed if he kept fighting the three Pein bodies with Taijutsu and Ninjutsu like that, so yes, he ran away. This is because they tanked even his fastest technique, the hair needles.


Shared vision.

Yes, he did. The tongue stretching jutsu with the sword.

Jiraiya's hair jutsu was weakened due to his condition, but he was fast enough to react to Orochimaru's speed.

Kakashi saved Kurenai from the Bunshin Bakuha. He told Asuma and Kurenai not to underestimate him, because he had become an ANBU captain at only age 13. Asuma said he didn't expect him to be so strong, but Kakashi said no, he isn't using anywhere near his full power. And at the time, Kakashi didn't even know about Mangekyou Sharingan, let alone its techniques. So that throws your "Kakashi>Itachi w/o MS" theory out the window.

Kakashi doesn't come close to Itachi, ever, with MS, without MS, or even blind w/o Sharingan at all.

Before Itachi activated Tsukiyomi, Kakashi knew it was a jutsu so he instantly told his allies to close their eyes. If Kakashi had absolutely no knowledge, he would have no idea what the hell the jutsu could do, but he knew the requirement for the jutsu. Eye contact.

Plus, Kakashi's known Itachi for his skilled Sharingan, so Kakashi probably expected more powerful doujutsu attacks.

If Itachi was much faster than Kakashi, he would've blitzed and taken him down instead of risking to blind his eyes. Kakuzu took a split second to blitz Kakashi, so it would've been just as effective. The fact is, Itachi doesn't have that speed.

Are you...........serious ?

Kakashi could barely keep up with Itachi while Itachi was only fooling around. He was all on the defensive, and Itachi wasn't even serious.

Itachi without any sharingan usage could be a fair matchup for Kakashi. maybe

And that's why he used Mangekyou Sharingan?

If Itachi could've straight out stomped Kakashi in seconds without MS, he would've done so instead os damaging his eyes further.

[Nikushimi]

Good people gotta do, what they gotta do.

In the last fight, Itachi beat them, and hurt them.

Itachi never hurt them. Ever. The worst he did was Tsukuyomi, but he only used it to knock them out, and Tsukuyomi doesn't actually physically damage their bodies.

Raising foot is melee range, Pein wasn't at melee range. That's the whole point of shunshin.

Skinny Pein was charging at him and came into melee range. Hence why Jiraiya was able to kick him. :zaru

Shared vision.

Yes, he did. The tongue stretching jutsu with the sword.

Jiraiya's hair jutsu was weakened due to his condition, but he was fast enough to react to Orochimaru's speed.

What about it?

That was his neck, not his tongue. :zaru

Orochimaru had no arms and no Jutsu, and was in constant pain. He also stated his handicap was just as bad as Jiraiya's, and since they know eachother well and have fought eachother before, there's no reason to doubt that statement.

Before Itachi activated Tsukiyomi, Kakashi knew it was a jutsu so he instantly told his allies to close their eyes. If Kakashi had absolutely no knowledge, he would have no idea what the hell the jutsu could do, but he knew the requirement for the jutsu. Eye contact.

Because all Sharingan Genjutsu are Doujutsu, including Kakashi's. :zaru

Plus, Kakashi's known Itachi for his skilled Sharingan, so Kakashi probably expected more powerful doujutsu attacks.

Anyone expects that from any Sharingan user. What does that prove?

If Itachi was much faster than Kakashi, he would've blitzed and taken him down instead of risking to blind his eyes. Kakuzu took a split second to blitz Kakashi, so it would've been just as effective. The fact is, Itachi doesn't have that speed.

You're completely missing it. Itachi didn't do it because he didn't want to, not because he couldn't. Before, when Itachi could use Tsukuyomi, he could just one-hit Kakashi with a single Genjutsu and put him out of the fight right away without having to physically hurt him. The technique may be dangerous, but Itachi is a good person, and values the well-being of others over his own. I mean, again, the dude murdered his own family to save the lives of people like Kakashi. Why would he then turn around and take them himself?

[Rescuebear]

so if amaterasu burning pein and he still could absorb it?amaterasu is not an attack tat goes forward like ultimate rasengan.its an atack tat appears.fat guy wont even have a chance to absorb.
He absorbed Jaraiya moves which I doubt are easy to predict, Amaterasu may be slightly faster but Pain should still easily be able to absorb it.

tsukiyomi attacks ur brain.its not like a normal genjutsu tat u have to go in front of ur enemy and uses weapons to kill them.
Tsukiyomi is a Genjitsu, and thus as all genjitsu only attack the mind and cause no physical damage, granted it may be an extremely powerful genjitsu but the strength of it is irrelevant due to the nature of Pains immunity to genjitsu. The only way this jitsu could effect Pain was if Itachi was to capture all 6 bodies of Pain in Tsukiyomi simultaneously, which, due to the nature of the move and Itachi's inability to easily use Tsukiyomi 6 times, is impossible.

susanoo is a spiritual thing.it cannot be absorb.things being cut by sword of totsuka will be sealed.so tat means pein cannot use the body which has been sealed by susanoo.
Susanoo is either a ninjitsu or a summon, if its a ninjitsu chances are absorbing Pain could absorb it, if its a summon then thats a different story...
As for Totsuka, it's an ethereal sword that seals any mind cut by it in permanent unbreakable genjitsu, however as Pain shows no signs of being overtly effected by genjitsu, would have little or no impact.

the bodies tat jman killed wasnt sealed.so they probably could revive.but being sealed is different then normal killing.
Again, as Genjitsu seems to remain only in the Pain bodies caught in the actual genjitsu we don't know that its effect would last or even work in the first place.

[S.A.S]

the uchiha brothers will win for me their both genius

[DanteShadow100]

Team uchiha win without Kirin or Susanoo :blinditachi

[Shinkirou]

Pein with only what we know he has? Itachi and Sasuke take this pretty easily. Susano'O pretty much ends it.

[mednin]

Itachi and Sasuke.

[WindiosSiesta]

Well, this is my first post in this Battledome. But in my opinion, at this moment when Pain's full power hasn't been revealed yet, I think that Itachi and Sasuke will win with difficulty. If his true strength is shown to us (guess that it will be impressive), then maybe Pain will win but not easy at all or there will be a draw.
The reason I choose the Uchiha brothers are:
1. First, there is NO LIMIT in this battle :
- So Itachi can go all out in a healthy condition and we never saw any battle of his in this condition. But all his battles we have seen were already very impressive and told us he is a very strong shinobi, at least Sannin Level.
- About Sasuke, as far as I see, he never has a real limit, somebody can say that the CS is his limit but I only see him became stronger because of it before, maybe a little difficulties in the beginning when he still didn't know how to use it to his advantage. But now he uses it perfectly as we can see in all of his battles in part 2.
- Pain, there is nothing to talk about. At the moment he has no limitation that hinder his fight yet.
2. Their Skills - Genj, Ninj, Taij, etc :
a. Itachi : well, he has a lot skills up his sleeve, about non-MS skills: he can perform non-MS Genj easily with just one finger (proved with Naruto), he knows a lot of Ninj, not just Katon, I'm sure of it because he used a Suiton Ninj when he fought with Kakashi and Kurenai. And the sharingan copy other non-bloodline limit Ninj, so he must have a copied a lot because the Akatsuki searched for many Jutsus in the beginning before they began capturing Bijuu (Jiraiya told Kakashi that, i think). And another thing that we must not leave out is that his Seal making speed is insane because even Kakashi and Sasuke can't see it (in the Shuriken duel, he managed to block all of Sasuke's shuriken in such close range and still able to make a Bunshin that Sasuke didn't know until it attack him, that speed is insane!!). But we didn't see him use them much because he never fight all out and i think he prefers Genj and his MS. Taij, he is very good at this area, no need to talk about it more, and his speed is very impressive because he is faster than Sasuke (proved in their Taij fight) and Sasuke’s speed is already hard to follow for many people. So without his MS skills, Itachi already proved to be a hard opponent for anyone, even for Pain. The reason I will explained in Pain’s part.
Now, about his MS techniques, very strong, I say. First, Tsukuyomi is one of the strongest Genj and only an Uchiha can break out of it, so we don’t know if Rinnegan can do that. I read some posts that said the Rinnegan is immune to Genj, I think that is false because I hasn’t found any sentence in the manga stated that. And Pain still fell under Jiraiya Genj (or Ma and Pa’s) and all three Pains, so he is not immune to Genj. And Tsukuyomi power is not only mind torture like some people think, it can do a lot of things. For example, he used it to tell Sasuke about Madara’s past, used it to decieved Sasuke that he was crazy for Sasuke’s eyes, and I’m not sure the Genj he put Naruto in was Tsukuyomi or a normal Genj. So it can trick one Pain in some other dimension or trick him to attack another Pain, maybe. This is just my suggestion, don’t flame here.
Amaterasu is another mystery we haven’t seen all potential. It is a Ninj but not a normal one. I doubt the Fat Pain can absorb it easily like Rasengan. Jiraiya brought Rasengan ball straight to Fat one, so he abosrbed it. But Amaterasu appeared suddenly out of nowhere right on his body so I don’t know if he can absorb it. Even if he can, other Pain can’t, that’s for sure. So Itachi can use Amaterasu to fry the other 5 Pain and then deal with Fat one later. And don’t say that they can easily dogde it. Amaterasu is very difficult to dogde because Itachi just needs to stand there and use his eyes to follow them around like with Sasuke (and also stop saying Sasuke can survive it, that was proved that Itachi never wanted to kill Sasuke, so he stopped the fire, if it was one of Pain other than the Fat one, he would burn in hell!). Fat one also can shield for all of them because his speed is not very fast, he can’t jump in front if all of them before Amaterasu burns them, even if he manage to save one, Itachi just needs to roll his eyes and target anothet one and he can’t jump around as fast as Itachi using his eyes to scan around. And this Amaterasu is also very useful to deal with the Camera view problem. You can see that the Pain that Jiraiya kick was blind after that and couldn’t see anything. The problem for Jiraiya is that the other two could still see him. But with Amaterasu, Itachi only needs to look right in the eyes or even face of each Pain and BOOM!, they are all blind. Then there would be no Camera at all. And if no Camera is on, Pain will be finished easily.
To the last one, Susanoo. I don’t believe Susanoo is a Ninj or Genj at all. It is more like a Spiritual God. And the sword of Totsuka is not a solid thing, too. Black Zetsu stated that already:
“A spirit sword with no real physical form”, “the sword of Totsuka. Also known as Sakegari’s katana, is a weapon said to carry sealing power. Anyone and anything it pierces becomes trapped in a blissful dream-like Genjutsu for all eternity …The sword itself is enchanted with an incredible sealing technique…”
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/
So, the Totsuka sword can not be absorb by Fat one. And it power is not really Genj but a Sealing power that put one in a Genj for eternity. And the most important thing here is that it seal Anyone and Anything. So if the Pain body is considered a person, it will be sealed , no question. If it is not a person, then it is definitely a thing and will be sealed, too. So it will melt just like Oro to nothingness. Pain will lose one body. And with each body’s loss, he lose one ability and one Camera, that will be hard for him. Beside that sword, Itachi also has the Yata’s Mirror to block all attack toward him and if he wants I believe he can also use it to protect Sasuke. Those two supernatural items – like Zetsu said, combined with each other, are invincible. At least now, if in future Pain shows us some crazy thing that can defeat this combo, then I will say he can win.
So, in conclusion about Itachi, I think that he is already a tough opponent for Pain alone. If add in Sasuke, I believe they can win against Pain.
b. Sasuke: before talking about this guy’s power, I want to ask a question: this is Sasuke before the fight with Itachi or after ? If before, then he still has Oro Snake power, CS. If after, then he lost those two but has a new MS that we still don’t know what it can do. Both Sasuke will be hard to deal with but probably the first Sasuke will be easier because we already know all of his tricks and he doesn’t have MS. The second is a mystery mostly because of his unknown MS ability/abilities. So now, I’ll talk about the First, without MS.
His Taij is pretty good, his speed is fast, no more discussing. His Genj, we don’t know much about this, but his ability to break out of Genj is impressive. His Ninj, specifically Chidori all versions is his most impressive weapon. Other than that is his Katon Ninj, very strong. His sharingan add more power for him. So generally, I think he can deal with two or three Pain bodies or Summons equally with these. With his crazy Snake power and ugly CS power, he is more difficult to deal with. Those wings of his is very useful, he can fly high and then throw Fireball all over the battlefield or fighting with flying Summons. His Snake transforming ability is quite impressive, too. It is as if he had a lot of hands. It is really useful when suddenly a snake or a lot of snakes come out of your neck or arm and attack others. And who know how long those snakes are. So he can attack both close and long-range. His Kirin is very strong, but it takes a lot chakra out of him, so it will be his last resort when there will be only one or two Pain, I think.
Well, I don’t follow Sasuke much so I can only list down these skills of his. If he has to fight Pain alone with these, that will certainly not enough but if he fight alongside with Itachi, that will be hard for Pain to deal. Also, in this fight, I will put aside the hatred between the brothers and consider them working with each other normally. Then their teamwork will help them even out the disadvantage of number. They are both very intelligent, so I think they can come up with a plan like Jiraiya, Pa and Ma to take out Pain bodies. And they will help and watch out for each other. If they don’t have this teamwork, then I also doubt they can win because they will kill each other before they can kill Pain (at least Sasuke will try to kill Itachi and that will hinder Itachi a lot).
So, all in all, I think that Itachi and Sasuke will be able to win this battle.
(to be continued)

[WindiosSiesta]

c. Pain:
This guy is the most mysterious out of all three fighters now. His true power is still unknown to us. So I can’t really analyze his strength now. But I already said at the beginning of my post, if we consider him in this battle with only the strength we’ve known until now, then he can hardly win against the Uchiha brothers.
His Taij is not weak but not very impressive, too. I think his Taij level is under Jiraiya’s. And his speed also seems normal. His Genj, we know nothing about this area of his. Now, mainly it is Ninj. But this area we also haven’t seen much, too. The problem is that, Jiraiya said that Nagato mastered all 6 element Ninjs, that will be a lot of Ninjs, probably more than the Uchiha brothers’ Ninjs. But if those Ninjs are not bloodline limit, then the Sharingan can still copy all of them. And then, now we still can’t comfirm if Nagato is Pain. The only thing they have in common is the Rinnegan. Secondly, now with 6 bodies, I don’t know which body will be the one to know all Ninjs like that if there is one at all. Jiraiya found out that each body only has one ability. So it’s a little hard to fight because if one body is taken down, then that ability went with him and Pain can’t use it anymore. That is bad.
Beside his 6 bodies is the Rinnegan. But as I said, we haven’t seen the true power of his eyes yet. So now, with only the Camera View that can be taken care of easily with an attack to the eyes of all the bodies, he can be blind and can’t fight much.
So, finally, I want to say that if Kishimoto shows us more about Pain in the future, then this battle outcome will change and we can open a new thread with new condition for the fight, where the fight can be in favor of Pain. Now, the fight is in favor of the Uchiha brothers.
Before I finish my post, I will tell you that I’m not an Uchiha crazy fan. I’m just a new fan of Itachi after his fight with Sasuke. About Sasuke, to tell the truth, I hate him with a burning passion. But I still have to admit his strength. I have nothing against Pain, too. I even find his character interesting, a little crazy though with the I-am-God attitude. Man, no matter how strong he is, he is still a human with a strange belief. The only God I see in Naruto so far is the God of Death that Sandaime called out, but it is also a Ninj, feh. And don’t tell me that because I am a fan of Itachi, I brought him to the sky. No, I just became his fan recently. Before, I also don’t like him. But admit it, his fight with Sasuke is very impressive. His MS techniques is very cool and strong. I begin to find interest in his character after that fight. Then the truth about him came out, and I like him because of his personality, his sacrifice and his love for peace then. But I am not crazy in love with him so much that I can’t see anyone else other than him. I will never say that he is the strongest, the coolest…etc and talk low of other characters. Here, I just give some proof about his strength that some people tend to ignore or underestimate too much that I can’t let it be. That’s all.
Thanks for reading. And feel free to give your opinion about my analyzing. If I made some mistakes, you can show me and correct it if you think you’re right.
:P:P:P

[sanji's left eye]

If his true strength is shown to us (guess that it will be impressive), then maybe Pain will win but not easy at all or there will be a draw.
The reason I choose the Uchiha brothers are:
1. First, there is NO LIMIT in this battle :
- So Itachi can go all out in a healthy condition and we never saw any battle of his in this condition. But all his battles we have seen were already very impressive and told us he is a very strong shinobi, at least Sannin Level.
- About Sasuke, as far as I see, he never has a real limit, somebody can say that the CS is his limit but I only see him became stronger because of it before, maybe a little difficulties in the beginning when he still didn't know how to use it to his advantage. But now he uses it perfectly as we can see in all of his battles in part 2.
- Pain, there is nothing to talk about. At the moment he has no limitation that hinder his fight yet.
2. Their Skills - Genj, Ninj, Taij, etc :
a. Itachi : well, he has a lot skills up his sleeve, about non-MS skills: he can perform non-MS Genj easily with just one finger (proved with Naruto), he knows a lot of Ninj, not just Katon, I'm sure of it because he used a Suiton Ninj when he fought with Kakashi and Kurenai. And the sharingan copy other non-bloodline limit Ninj, so he must have a copied a lot because the Akatsuki searched for many Jutsus in the beginning before they began capturing Bijuu (Jiraiya told Kakashi that, i think). And another thing that we must not leave out is that his Seal making speed is insane because even Kakashi and Sasuke can't see it (in the Shuriken duel, he managed to block all of Sasuke's shuriken in such close range and still able to make a Bunshin that Sasuke didn't know until it attack him, that speed is insane!!). But we didn't see him use them much because he never fight all out and i think he prefers Genj and his MS. Taij, he is very good at this area, no need to talk about it more, and his speed is very impressive because he is faster than Sasuke (proved in their Taij fight) and Sasuke’s speed is already hard to follow for many people. So without his MS skills, Itachi already proved to be a hard opponent for anyone, even for Pain. The reason I will explained in Pain’s part.
Now, about his MS techniques, very strong, I say. First, Tsukuyomi is one of the strongest Genj and only an Uchiha can break out of it, so we don’t know if Rinnegan can do that. I read some posts that said the Rinnegan is immune to Genj, I think that is false because I hasn’t found any sentence in the manga stated that. And Pain still fell under Jiraiya Genj (or Ma and Pa’s) and all three Pains, so he is not immune to Genj. And Tsukuyomi power is not only mind torture like some people think, it can do a lot of things. For example, he used it to tell Sasuke about Madara’s past, used it to decieved Sasuke that he was crazy for Sasuke’s eyes, and I’m not sure the Genj he put Naruto in was Tsukuyomi or a normal Genj. So it can trick one Pain in some other dimension or trick him to attack another Pain, maybe. This is just my suggestion, don’t flame here.
Amaterasu is another mystery we haven’t seen all potential. It is a Ninj but not a normal one. I doubt the Fat Pain can absorb it easily like Rasengan. Jiraiya brought Rasengan ball straight to Fat one, so he abosrbed it. But Amaterasu appeared suddenly out of nowhere right on his body so I don’t know if he can absorb it. Even if he can, other Pain can’t, that’s for sure. So Itachi can use Amaterasu to fry the other 5 Pain and then deal with Fat one later. And don’t say that they can easily dogde it. Amaterasu is very difficult to dogde because Itachi just needs to stand there and use his eyes to follow them around like with Sasuke (and also stop saying Sasuke can survive it, that was proved that Itachi never wanted to kill Sasuke, so he stopped the fire, if it was one of Pain other than the Fat one, he would burn in hell!). Fat one also can shield for all of them because his speed is not very fast, he can’t jump in front if all of them before Amaterasu burns them, even if he manage to save one, Itachi just needs to roll his eyes and target anothet one and he can’t jump around as fast as Itachi using his eyes to scan around. And this Amaterasu is also very useful to deal with the Camera view problem. You can see that the Pain that Jiraiya kick was blind after that and couldn’t see anything. The problem for Jiraiya is that the other two could still see him. But with Amaterasu, Itachi only needs to look right in the eyes or even face of each Pain and BOOM!, they are all blind. Then there would be no Camera at all. And if no Camera is on, Pain will be finished easily.
To the last one, Susanoo. I don’t believe Susanoo is a Ninj or Genj at all. It is more like a Spiritual God. And the sword of Totsuka is not a solid thing, too. Black Zetsu stated that already:
“A spirit sword with no real physical form”, “the sword of Totsuka. Also known as Sakegari’s katana, is a weapon said to carry sealing power. Anyone and anything it pierces becomes trapped in a blissful dream-like Genjutsu for all eternity …The sword itself is enchanted with an incredible sealing technique…”
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/
So, the Totsuka sword can not be absorb by Fat one. And it power is not really Genj but a Sealing power that put one in a Genj for eternity. And the most important thing here is that it seal Anyone and Anything. So if the Pain body is considered a person, it will be sealed , no question. If it is not a person, then it is definitely a thing and will be sealed, too. So it will melt just like Oro to nothingness. Pain will lose one body. And with each body’s loss, he lose one ability and one Camera, that will be hard for him. Beside that sword, Itachi also has the Yata’s Mirror to block all attack toward him and if he wants I believe he can also use it to protect Sasuke. Those two supernatural items – like Zetsu said, combined with each other, are invincible. At least now, if in future Pain shows us some crazy thing that can defeat this combo, then I will say he can win.
So, in conclusion about Itachi, I think that he is already a tough opponent for Pain alone. If add in Sasuke, I believe they can win against Pain.
b. Sasuke: before talking about this guy’s power, I want to ask a question: this is Sasuke before the fight with Itachi or after ? If before, then he still has Oro Snake power, CS. If after, then he lost those two but has a new MS that we still don’t know what it can do. Both Sasuke will be hard to deal with but probably the first Sasuke will be easier because we already know all of his tricks and he doesn’t have MS. The second is a mystery mostly because of his unknown MS ability/abilities. So now, I’ll talk about the First, without MS.
His Taij is pretty good, his speed is fast, no more discussing. His Genj, we don’t know much about this, but his ability to break out of Genj is impressive. His Ninj, specifically Chidori all versions is his most impressive weapon. Other than that is his Katon Ninj, very strong. His sharingan add more power for him. So generally, I think he can deal with two or three Pain bodies or Summons equally with these. With his crazy Snake power and ugly CS power, he is more difficult to deal with. Those wings of his is very useful, he can fly high and then throw Fireball all over the battlefield or fighting with flying Summons. His Snake transforming ability is quite impressive, too. It is as if he had a lot of hands. It is really useful when suddenly a snake or a lot of snakes come out of your neck or arm and attack others. And who know how long those snakes are. So he can attack both close and long-range. His Kirin is very strong, but it takes a lot chakra out of him, so it will be his last resort when there will be only one or two Pain, I think.
)

i think this is 1 of the longest posts i have ever read but next time make paragraphs cuz my eyes r bleeding.

anyway u make a lot of assumptions in this post. u say tht cause itachi used 1 suiton tht he definitely has a lot of jutsu but u cant be sure of tht. u also say tht itachi is great in taijutsu w/ little knowledge concerning tht. now tht 1 finger genjutsu is in his skill set could be useful but its effectiveness is debateable cause he used it against someone w/ no prior genjutsu experience, naruto. not 2 mention it didnt cause any reaL HARM 2 him so it probabaly wouldnt be really effective against pein.

u aslo made a comment about u thinking tht he prefers genjutsu and MS. considering MS makes u go blind and ya eyes bleed then i seriously doubt tht he uses cuz he likes 2, but uses it cuz he HAS TO. a ninja like itachi doesnt use jutsu cuz he likes 2 but cause tht is either the easiest or most effective way 2 fight an opponent. u basically havent really convinced me tht itachi has many skills outside of his MS. he has low level katons and suitons, great speed, genjutsu tht works on NARUTO, and sharingan predictability. infact i dont even see itachi being tht good w/o MS.

u made a comment bout amertasu frying every pein but the fat 1. i seriously doubt the pein bodies r just gonna sit in a tightnit little cirlce and wait 4 amertasu 2 hit them they r going 2 be spread out. amertasu is a ninjutsu so yes fat man can absorb it. amertasu could hit 1 but fat man immediately comes in 2 absorb the jutsu and if he cant then they simply run away.

so how is something not a genjutsu but a sealing tht puts u in a genjutsu 4 ever. its all genjutsu. its unknown whether pein can break out of it or not or whether it afects him at all. there is also something known as ressurection pein. fatman guards him and any who die come back 2 life. u speculate so damn much on itachi but none at all on pein?! tht makes u seem biased

[sanji's left eye]

on topic pein wins imo. cant be the leader 4 nothing. but we still need more knowledge of him and sasuke 2 be sure

[Nikushimi]

on topic pein wins imo. cant be the leader 4 nothing. but we still need more knowledge of him and sasuke 2 be sure

Pein's status as the leader is virtually meaningless. It means he's a notch above the rest and Madara trusts him more, but Itachi was never a conforming piece of the organization's war machine, so he can't be counted as inferior to Pein based solely on his rank.

I still think this match is a joke. Either of the Uchiha brothers could give Pein a near-even fight, and Itachi might very well be able to solo him.

[zabuza666]

Pein wins against either individually, but together they are to much

[Rescuebear]

Pein wins against either individually, but together they are to much
Hmm...
Agreed, i think he could take either 1 on 1, but these two would make a powerful combination.....

[Agony]

He absorbed Jaraiya moves which I doubt are easy to predict, Amaterasu may be slightly faster but Pain should still easily be able to absorb it.
jiraiya's moves were predicted by pein because of rinnegan.physical speeds can be seen by rinnegan.but amaterasu is different.it burns wad itachi's eyes aim.and dont tell me fat pein will still absorb amaterasu while amaterasu is burning him.

Tsukiyomi is a Genjitsu, and thus as all genjitsu only attack the mind and cause no physical damage, granted it may be an extremely powerful genjitsu but the strength of it is irrelevant due to the nature of Pains immunity to genjitsu. frog song and normal genjutsu tortures the victim in the illusion world but the victim is not hurt in the real world.but tsukiyomi is different.it kills in the illusion world. The only way this jitsu could effect Pain was if Itachi was to capture all 6 bodies of Pain in Tsukiyomi simultaneously, which, due to the nature of the move and Itachi's inability to easily use Tsukiyomi 6 times, is impossible. itachi doesnt need to tsukiyomi pein 6 times.susanoo is already able to handle.


Susanoo is either a ninjitsu or a summon, if its a ninjitsu chances are absorbing Pain could absorb it, if its a summon then thats a different story...not ninjutsu nor summon.both of them need handseals.susanoo doesnt need handseals which makes neither ninjutsu nor summon.dont tell me itachi can make handseals in0.001 second while kirin strikes him.
As for Totsuka, it's an ethereal sword that seals any mind cut by it in permanent unbreakable genjitsu, however as Pain shows no signs of being overtly effected by genjitsu, would have little or no impact.totsuka sucks the body.absorbs the body.i doubt pein can use the same body if the body he used is absorbed and sealed in an eternal genjutsu world.


Again, as Genjitsu seems to remain only in the Pain bodies caught in the actual genjitsu we don't know that its effect would last or even work in the first place.read wad i wrote.:amuse

[Truepotential]

Itachi never hurt them. Ever. The worst he did was Tsukuyomi, but he only used it to knock them out, and Tsukuyomi doesn't actually physically damage their bodies.

When you hurt someone, you cause them pain. Pretty sure Kakashi felt pain when he was stabbed for 72 hours. Tsukuyomi almost killed Kakashi, it forced Jiraiya to find Tsunade to heal him.

Skinny Pein was charging at him and came into melee range. Hence why Jiraiya was able to kick him

Just because somebody begins charging at someone, it does not mean "melee range."
Kakashi charged at Hidan, but he didn't reach him in melee range.

What about it?

That was his neck, not his tongue.

Orochimaru had no arms and no Jutsu, and was in constant pain. He also stated his handicap was just as bad as Jiraiya's, and since they know eachother well and have fought eachother before, there's no reason to doubt that statement

Um, the drug stunned Jiraiya.

Because all Sharingan Genjutsu are Doujutsu, including Kakashi's

Explain why wasn't Kakashi so worried about Asuma and Kurenai staring into Itachi's regular eyes.

Anyone expects that from any Sharingan user. What does that prove?

In the begining of the fight, he said,"This is a true Sharingan successor." That hinted that Kakashi had some idea of his more powerful Sharingan jutsus.

You're completely missing it. Itachi didn't do it because he didn't want to, not because he couldn't. Before, when Itachi could use Tsukuyomi, he could just one-hit Kakashi with a single Genjutsu and put him out of the fight right away without having to physically hurt him. The technique may be dangerous, but Itachi is a good person, and values the well-being of others over his own. I mean, again, the dude murdered his own family to save the lives of people like Kakashi. Why would he then turn around and take them himself?

Um, Tsunade had to heal Kakashi?

Itachi almost killed him, that hurts more than blitzing.

[maximilyan]

Sasuke essentially got styled on by his disease ridden brother who wasnt going all out.

I go with pein.

[Rescuebear]

jiraiya's moves were predicted by pein because of rinnegan.physical speeds can be seen by rinnegan.but amaterasu is different.it burns wad itachi's eyes aim.and dont tell me fat pein will still absorb amaterasu while amaterasu is burning him.
Rinningan has never been said to be able to read moves like the sharingan can, Amaterasu can be absorbed, just like any other Ninjitsu, chances are Itachi would have used it on Pain before he realise one of pains bodies could absorb it, thus he would waste at least one shot of it, if Sasuke can escape it i have no doubt Pains absorbing body that majors in absorbing would have time enough to react.

frog song and normal genjutsu tortures the victim in the illusion world but the victim is not hurt in the real world.but tsukiyomi is different.it kills in the illusion world.
It causes no physical damage, its just an extremely powerful genjitsu. If worst came to worst im sure Pain could just sever his connection with the body caught in this move. Still we dont even know it would work on him, based on what we have seen so far, the odds are it wouldn't.

itachi doesnt need to tsukiyomi pein 6 times.susanoo is already able to handle.
If Itachi wanted to utilize Tsukiyomi in this battle then he would need to use it 6 times simultaneously or its usefulness would be lost.

not ninjutsu nor summon.both of them need handseals.susanoo doesnt need handseals which makes neither ninjutsu nor summon.dont tell me itachi can make handseals in0.001 second while kirin strikes him.
It either has to be a ninjitsu, Taijitsu or Genjitsu, the only exception to this are summons. Not all moves require hand seals as we have already seen.

totsuka sucks the body.absorbs the body.i doubt pein can use the same body if the body he used is absorbed and sealed in an eternal genjutsu world.

Totsuka is a sword enchanted with powerful genjitsu, it seals the targets mind. Nothing to do with their body. We dont know if pains body's are alive or not, could be the reason Genjitsu seems to have little to no effect on him.

[Agony]

Rinningan has never been said to be able to read moves like the sharingan can,wad i'm trying to say is one pein can see all the eyesights of other pein's. Amaterasu can be absorbed, just like any other Ninjitsu, chances are Itachi would have used it on Pain before he realise one of pains bodies could absorb it, thus he would waste at least one shot of it, if Sasuke can escape it i have no doubt Pains absorbing body that majors in absorbing would have time enough to react.
we're talking about 100%itachi.one shot wont cause any damage to his body.and if u go to konoha telegram,u will know how strong is itachi.

It causes no physical damage, its just an extremely powerful genjitsu. If worst came to worst im sure Pain could just sever his connection with the body caught in this move. Still we dont even know it would work on him, based on what we have seen so far, the odds are it wouldn't.
i told u didnt i?it kills in the illusion world.although there's no phisical damage,the mind will get pwn by tsukiyomi.tsukiyomi is not like normal genjutsu tat needs the user to go in front of the victim to use a weapon and kill them.tsukiyomi kills in the brain.i'll repeat myself.it KILLS IN THE BRAIN OR KILLS THE VICTIM IN THE ILLUSION WORLD.
If Itachi wanted to utilize Tsukiyomi in this battle then he would need to use it 6 times simultaneously or its usefulness would be lost.
itachi doesnt need to use tsukiyomi 6 times.susanoo and kirin is enough.

It either has to be a ninjitsu, Taijitsu or Genjitsu, the only exception to this are summons. Not all moves require hand seals as we have already seen.
i dont see fat pein has the speed to dodge sword of totsuka.

Totsuka is a sword enchanted with powerful genjitsu, it seals the targets mind. Nothing to do with their body. We dont know if pains body's are alive or not, could be the reason Genjitsu seems to have little to no effect on him.
sword of totsuka seals the body.if not,then tell me where is oro's body right now.actually frog song did work on pein.it was the weapon tat stab on pein wasnt working.

[sanji's left eye]

Pein's status as the leader is virtually meaningless. It means he's a notch above the rest and Madara trusts him more, but Itachi was never a conforming piece of the organization's war machine, so he can't be counted as inferior to Pein based solely on his rank.

I still think this match is a joke. Either of the Uchiha brothers could give Pein a near-even fight, and Itachi might very well be able to solo him.

dont be a dumb ass

incase u havent noticed i said we need more info on pein and sasuke 2 talk bout this fight more in depth. i do agree bout the leader comment though. i cant see sasuke making an even fight w pein though. itachi may be able 2 though so yeah i think sasuke and itachi could win but now knowing everything bout pein makes it hard

[sanji's left eye]

wad i'm trying to say is one pein can see all the eyesights of other pein's.
we're talking about 100%itachi.one shot wont cause any damage to his body.and if u go to konoha telegram,u will know how strong is itachi.


i told u didnt i?it kills in the illusion world.although there's no phisical damage,the mind will get pwn by tsukiyomi.tsukiyomi is not like normal genjutsu tat needs the user to go in front of the victim to use a weapon and kill them.tsukiyomi kills in the brain.i'll repeat myself.it KILLS IN THE BRAIN OR KILLS THE VICTIM IN THE ILLUSION WORLD.

itachi doesnt need to use tsukiyomi 6 times.susanoo and kirin is enough.


i dont see fat pein has the speed to dodge sword of totsuka.


sword of totsuka seals the body.if not,then tell me where is oro's body right now.actually frog song did work on pein.it was the weapon tat stab on pein wasnt working.

susano and kirin being enough....

the speed of susano is debateable. they could doge it. krin is an attack in wihch u have 2 be stationary against. the pein bodies r gonna be running around like crazy. if someon was caught in tht genjutsu sword, couldnt pein kill tht body then ressurect it.

[muishot]

susano and kirin being enough....

the speed of susano is debateable. they could doge it. krin is an attack in wihch u have 2 be stationary against. the pein bodies r gonna be running around like crazy. if someon was caught in tht genjutsu sword, couldnt pein kill tht body then ressurect it.

I doubt it. I don't think Pein can just somehow go to that whatever world that the sword seal the body and get it back. It is also the reason why Pein lost one of his body to Jiriaya's barrier that is in another world. I believe the sword's sealing power to be similar to the Shiki Fujin. I don't mean power, but the effect of the seal are similar.

[Rescuebear]

we're talking about 100%itachi.one shot wont cause any damage to his body.and if u go to konoha telegram,u will know how strong is itachi.
I read them manga, i know Itachi is strong, i just have no delusional fantasies of him being unbeatable.
1 wasted shot of Amaterasu would be costly not just because of the chakra toll, also because Pain would know the move after it had been used and it would be harder for Itachi to land it without the element of surprise, also Pain would undoubtedly keep his absorbing body handy after seeing Amaterasu even once.
i told u didnt i?it kills in the illusion world.although there's no phisical damage,the mind will get pwn by tsukiyomi.tsukiyomi is not like normal genjutsu tat needs the user to go in front of the victim to use a weapon and kill them.tsukiyomi kills in the brain.i'll repeat myself.it KILLS IN THE BRAIN OR KILLS THE VICTIM IN THE ILLUSION WORLD.
And i told you that its probable that Pain would just sever the Rinningan connection with anybody caught in such a painful genjitsu. Just like rebooting a frozen computer...

i dont see fat pein has the speed to dodge sword of totsuka.
I can only see this being a problem if Itachi actually targeted fat Pain 1st, if so im sure Pain could do something with his other 5 bodies to protect it, ie spam summons?

sword of totsuka seals the body.if not,then tell me where is oro's body right now.actually frog song did work on pein.it was the weapon tat stab on pein wasnt working.
Orochimaru's body is probably lying lifeless on the ground, if Amaterasu didn't burn it too a crisp. We saw what Orochimaru was seeing when he was caught in the genjitsu, his physical body didn't evaporate?
As for frog song, only the pain bodies that actually heard the song were caught in the genjitsu, the others came and revived them (If they were ever alive in the first place which I'm still doubtful about). I see Pains ability as similar to watching a fight on 6 screens, Jaraiyas genjitsu interfered with 3 of those screens, however Pain could still see out of his other 3, Tsukiyomi would be even less effective as it would only mess up one screen.

[Agony]

susano and kirin being enough....
my bad.:P
the speed of susano is debateable.oro didnt even know wad stab him while he was talking. they could doge it. krin is an attack in wihch u have 2 be stationary against. the pein bodies r gonna be running around like crazy. go read the pein and jman fight.most of the bodies were just standing.:amuseif someon was caught in tht genjutsu sword, couldnt pein kill tht body then ressurect it.
i doubt tat.and wad do u mean by ressurect?susanoo seals it.the bodies are sealed.no he cant use the same bodies again.

[Agony]

I read them manga, i know Itachi is strong, i just have no delusional fantasies of him being unbeatable.i'm not saying his unbeatable.wad i'm saying is now pein has shown nothing tat can overcome itachi's susanoo.
1 wasted shot of Amaterasu would be costly not just because of the chakra toll,a sick itachi,bad eyesight,half of his power given to naruto can even handle a 100%sasuke.he can still use amaterasu twice,tsukiyomi once,genjutsu four times,susanoo(tat is long enough to handle oro and sasuke.) also because Pain would know the move after it had been used and it would be harder for Itachi to land it without the element of surprise, also Pain would undoubtedly keep his absorbing body handy after seeing Amaterasu even once.wad can pein do with amterasu?tell me.i dont see fat pein will know where itachi will shot his amaterasu.

And i told you that its probable that Pain would just sever the Rinningan connection with anybody caught in such a painful genjitsu. Just like rebooting a frozen computer...i dont think he has tat amount of time.tsukiyomi kills in seconds.


I can only see this being a problem if Itachi actually targeted fat Pain 1st, if so im sure Pain could do something with his other 5 bodies to protect it, ie spam summons?using summon is also useless.susanoo can be used for quite a long time since itachi is 100%.


Orochimaru's body is probably lying lifeless on the ground, if Amaterasu didn't burn it too a crisp. We saw what Orochimaru was seeing when he was caught in the genjitsu, his physical body didn't evaporate?his physical body was absorbed.
As for frog song, only the pain bodies that actually heard the song were caught in the genjitsuu had just admit tat genjutsu works. the others came and revived them could be a possibility.but i doubt they can ressurect the bodies tat has been sealed by susanoo.(If they were ever alive in the first place which I'm still doubtful about). I see Pains ability as similar to watching a fight on 6 screens, Jaraiyas genjitsu interfered with 3 of those screens, however Pain could still see out of his other 3, Tsukiyomi would be even less effective as it would only mess up one screen.but there is only one brain.

[The Greatest Shinobi 1]

lol, Susano-o sword = fast.
There should be no debate about this at least. :P

[rider258]

Sure Pein Will Lost Pein Susano-o;Blade Of Totsuka;Amaterasu And Sasuke`s Lightning = Pein DEAD Besides He`s A Body Scavenger Stealing Other`s Body To Learn New Jutsu`s DUH!

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Fat Pein is the reason their jutsu is useless.
Pein mastered all 6 chakra types (http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/munboyman/Naruto_v41_ch375_11.jpg)

Which are(not all are his jutsu).

Katon (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000335/02.jpg)
Fuuton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000373/12.jpg)
Raiton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000334/15.jpg)
Doton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000120/05.jpg)
Suiton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000257/18.jpg)
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000164/07.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000379/05.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000375/05.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000276/07.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/14.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000380/15.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000240/10.jpg

It also covers jutsu like Kage mane

Now we saw from Kakashi space-time can absorb anything, including jutsu and weapons.
So Pein solos easily.

wad i'm trying to say is one pein can see all the eyesights of other pein's.
we're talking about 100%itachi.one shot wont cause any damage to his body.and if u go to konoha telegram,u will know how strong is itachi.

And its manga canon that Pein is even stronger, final villains>2nd main character's ultimate benchmark.

i told u didnt i?it kills in the illusion world.although there's no phisical damage,the mind will get pwn by tsukiyomi.tsukiyomi is not like normal genjutsu tat needs the user to go in front of the victim to use a weapon and kill them.tsukiyomi kills in the brain.i'll repeat myself.it KILLS IN THE BRAIN OR KILLS THE VICTIM IN THE ILLUSION WORLD.

What stops Pein from reviving that body or killing that body and reviving it?

itachi doesnt need to use tsukiyomi 6 times.susanoo and kirin is enough.


He can only use MS 4 times.

i dont see fat pein has the speed to dodge sword of totsuka.


Fat Pein could absorb it.

sword of totsuka seals the body.if not,then tell me where is oro's body right now.actually frog song did work on pein.it was the weapon tat stab on pein wasnt working.

Pein didn't know Jiraiya knew how to use Genjutsu of that level thus was not prepared, now Pein obviously knows Itachi can use high level Genjutsu and thus won't be so careless.

I doubt it. I don't think Pein can just somehow go to that whatever world that the sword seal the body and get it back. It is also the reason why Pein lost one of his body to Jiriaya's barrier that is in another world. I believe the sword's sealing power to be similar to the Shiki Fujin. I don't mean power, but the effect of the seal are similar.

Nope, its a weapon and will be absorbed.

i'm not saying his unbeatable.wad i'm saying is now pein has shown nothing tat can overcome itachi's susanoo.

Fat Pein.

a sick itachi,bad eyesight,half of his power given to naruto can even handle a 100%sasuke.he can still use amaterasu twice,tsukiyomi once,genjutsu four times,susanoo(tat is long enough to handle oro and sasuke.) wad can pein do with amterasu?tell me.i dont see fat pein will know where itachi will shot his amaterasu.

Fat Pein>Amaterasu.

i dont think he has tat amount of time.tsukiyomi kills in seconds.

Tsukuyomi doesn't kill.

using summon is also useless.susanoo can be used for quite a long time since itachi is 100%.


But will also take a shit load of chakra unless he magically gains infinite chakra.

his physical body was absorbed.
u had just admit tat genjutsu works.could be a possibility.but i doubt they can ressurect the bodies tat has been sealed by susanoo.but there is only one brain.

Fat Pein.

Pein's status as the leader is virtually meaningless.

I knew you would say that.

It means he's a notch above the rest and Madara trusts him more, but Itachi was never a conforming piece of the organization's war machine, so he can't be counted as inferior to Pein based solely on his rank.

He can, Itachi worked for Pein since he was weaker then Pein.

I still think this match is a joke. Either of the Uchiha brothers could give Pein a near-even fight, and Itachi might very well be able to solo him.

:facepalm
Pein could solo them.

[Kuu]

Sasuke and Itachi have absolutely no chance.

Jaraiya and Itachi are equal at strength. And Pein basically took out Jaraiya no problem. So Itachi would be dead. And then apparently Sasuke is more powerful than Itachi. Which is alright, since Pein would be able to take down two Jariaya's. And Sasuke's just a small bit stronger then Itachi, not even close to twice Itachi's skill.

If you want to get technical, Sasuke doesn't have as much skill as Itachi, or even close to it. He just had more motive.

[sanji's left eye]

my bad.:P
oro didnt even know wad stab him while he was talking. go read the pein and jman fight.most of the bodies were just standing.:amuse
i doubt tat.and wad do u mean by ressurect?susanoo seals it.the bodies are sealed.no he cant use the same bodies again.

thts just it he was talking not concentrating on wat susano was doing. if he was fully focused he might have been able 2 dodge. there is also the posibility he didnt care cause he knew he could just use oral rebirth but it was 2 late he didtn know it was a sealing sword.

they probably wont be stationary when fighting 2 opponents.
the last part of my post was just speculation.

[sanji's left eye]

Sasuke and Itachi have absolutely no chance.

Jaraiya and Itachi are equal at strength. And Pein basically took out Jaraiya no problem. So Itachi would be dead. And then apparently Sasuke is more powerful than Itachi. Which is alright, since Pein would be able to take down two Jariaya's. And Sasuke's just a small bit stronger then Itachi, not even close to twice Itachi's skill.

If you want to get technical, Sasuke doesn't have as much skill as Itachi, or even close to it. He just had more motive.

actually pein said tht if he hadnt kept his secret he wouldve lost

[Nikushimi]

When you hurt someone, you cause them pain. Pretty sure Kakashi felt pain when he was stabbed for 72 hours. Tsukuyomi almost killed Kakashi, it forced Jiraiya to find Tsunade to heal him.

If you hurt someone mentally, you're not physically hurting them, i.e., not putting them in any real danger. And Kakashi was in a coma, meaning he would've woken up sooner or later (knowing Itachi, he wouldn't have killed him).

Just because somebody begins charging at someone, it does not mean "melee range."
Kakashi charged at Hidan, but he didn't reach him in melee range.

Because Kakashi never got close to Hidan. You can't assume in a manga that when someone gets close to someone in the next panel, they teleported or something. Skinny Pein charged Jiraiya, Jiraiya kicked him. End of story. There weren't even any Shunshin lines or smoke puffs to indicate that Jutsu's use.

Um, the drug stunned Jiraiya.

Yes, and Orochimaru's arms felt like they were fucking on fire, and he couldn't use any Jutsu at all. He still went out of his way to say that their handicaps were even.

Explain why wasn't Kakashi so worried about Asuma and Kurenai staring into Itachi's regular eyes.

Chiyo's Sharingan strategy. Regular Sharingan Genjutsu affects one person and is cast in real-time. This leaves the user open to be attacked.

In the begining of the fight, he said,"This is a true Sharingan successor." That hinted that Kakashi had some idea of his more powerful Sharingan jutsus.

Because it was Itachi. D:

It was mostly hype, and some knowledge. But obviously, he couldn't have full knowledge.

Um, Tsunade had to heal Kakashi?

Who says? He could've woken up the next day.

Itachi almost killed him, that hurts more than blitzing.

Funny, because Sasuke complained about Itachi "almost" killing him too, but Tobi said if Itachi had any such intentions it wouldn't have been a problem for him to do so. You're underestimating Itachi's self-control.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Skinny Pein charged Jiraiya, Jiraiya kicked him. End of story. There weren't even any Shunshin lines or smoke puffs to indicate that Jutsu's use.

HM increases physical capabilities and chakra capacity hence why Jiraiya didn't need Shunshin to kick skinny Pein.
Now don't tell me Itachi magically has HM:zaru

Chiyo's Sharingan strategy. Regular Sharingan Genjutsu affects one person and is cast in real-time. This leaves the user open to be attacked.


Sharingan weakness=more then 1 opponent in this case more then 2.



Funny, because Sasuke complained about Itachi "almost" killing him too, but Tobi said if Itachi had any such intentions it wouldn't have been a problem for him to do so. You're underestimating Itachi's self-control.

Pein is way more skilled then Sasuke and has jutsu to destroy Itachi, and to top it off he has more to show.

[KitCat]

I go for Itachi and Sasuke (I don't even know how powerful is Itachi, since kishi didn't really showed us his real limits).

[Nikushimi]

HM increases physical capabilities and chakra capacity hence why Jiraiya didn't need Shunshin to kick skinny Pein.
Now don't tell me Itachi magically has HM:zaru



Sharingan weakness=more then 1 opponent in this case more then 2.

You basically just agreed with me on everything I said; Jiraiya did not Shunshin Skinny Pein, and Kakashi wasn't worried about Itachi's regular Genjutsu because he had backup. :zaru

Pein is way more skilled then Sasuke and has jutsu to destroy Itachi, and to top it off he has more to show.

Pein? More skilled than Sasuke? Hardly. As much as it burns my tongue to say it, Sasuke is a genius Uchiha. He figured out Deidara's weakness almost right away and planned out Kirin pretty easily. Even though Itachi was extremely nerfed, Sasuke still gave him a rather even fight.

Thus, Sasuke would give Pein a close fight as well. Itachi would draw, if not actually beat him.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

You basically just agreed with me on everything I said; Jiraiya did not Shunshin Skinny Pein, and Kakashi wasn't worried about Itachi's regular Genjutsu because he had backup. :zaru

Kakashi isn't Pein.

Pein? More skilled than Sasuke? Hardly. As much as it burns my tongue to say it, Sasuke is a genius Uchiha. He figured out Deidara's weakness almost right away and planned out Kirin pretty easily. Even though Itachi was extremely nerfed, Sasuke still gave him a rather even fight.

Pein is way superior to Itachi and Deidara, and beat someone who pwned the Sannin at the same time, and Pein barely showed his abilities in his fight and it was enough to beat Jiraiya, so yeah Sasuke isn't as skilled as Pein.

Thus, Sasuke would give Pein a close fight as well. Itachi would draw, if not actually beat him.

Itachi would get destroyed, and Sasuke would get owned, I'm sorry its like this.

[Nikushimi]

Kakashi isn't Pein.

Yeah, Kakashi's actually a good character. :zaru

Pein is way superior to Itachi and Deidara, and beat someone who pwned the Sannin at the same time, and Pein barely showed his abilities in his fight and it was enough to beat Jiraiya, so yeah Sasuke isn't as skilled as Pein.

Pein is, at best, Itachi's equal. Deidara would give Pein a close fight as well. Hanzou beat the Sannin when they were young, stupid, and weak. Pein showed plenty in his fight with Jiraiya. Sasuke is easily close to Pein's level.

Itachi would get destroyed, and Sasuke would get owned, I'm sorry its like this.


Pein: Lol, Uchiha. *attacks Itachi*

Itachi: Lol, non-Uchiha. *counters with his cock and owns Pein with one thrust of it, through all six bodies*

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Yeah, Kakashi's actually a good character. :zaru

I bet if Kakashi had the Rin'negan you'd hate him:zaru

Pein is, at best, Itachi's equal. Deidara would give Pein a close fight as well. Hanzou beat the Sannin when they were young, stupid, and weak. Pein showed plenty in his fight with Jiraiya. Sasuke is easily close to Pein's level.

Prove the Sannin were weak.
Pein barely showed his abilities.
Sasuke isn't even close to Pein's level.
Even at his best Itachi isn't even Pein's equal.


Pein: Lol, Uchiha. *attacks Itachi*

Itachi: Lol, non-Uchiha. *counters with his cock and owns Pein with one thrust of it, through all six bodies*

Or Itachi says "only an Uchiha can beat me" then Beast Pein crushes his throat then stabs him w/all bodies..

[Nikushimi]

I bet if Kakashi had the Rin'negan you'd hate him:zaru

He'd be less cool, but he'd still be a million times better than Pein. :zaru

.

Prove the Sannin were weak.
Pein barely showed his abilities.
Sasuke isn't even close to Pein's level.
Even at his best Itachi isn't even Pein's equal.

They were still only Jounin and hadn't received the "Sannin" title until then. Orochimaru was still fodder-level compared to Sarutobi.
Summoning, Rinnegan, chakra swords, absorption, FUCKING ARM-LAUNCHING... Pein showed plenty.
Sasuke would blitz Pein and defeat him if he had plot shielding; without it, he might only kill five bodies.
Itachi at his best solos the Narutoverse. :zaru

Or Itachi says "only an Uchiha can beat me" then Beast Pein crushes his throat then stabs him w/all bodies..

Itachi evades all the bodies with superior speed and Taijutsu plus weapon attacks, blasts some bodies with Amaterasu, then finishes with Susano'o.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Fat Pein has to touch something to absorb it. Amaterasu fries him and Susano'o's Totsuka no Tsurugi seals him. Or plain Taijutsu just rapes him hard.

Or he just absorbs it, he uses space-time Ninjutsu to absorb and as we've seen from Kakashi space-time absorbs anything, including Susano'o, Totsuka and Amaterasu.

Pein stays in a group therefore Taijutsu will do shit.

[Nikushimi]

No, I've tried to debate with you before/

And it took you this long to discover my bias. :zaru

They are stronger then Gai and Kakashi.

Now, maybe, but not then.

Yeah Sarutobi was still strong.

Not in his prime, which nullifies your argument.

My mistake.

IT'S OVER I WON. :zaru

I don't give a shit what Sasuke fangirls say, I believe the manga.

Kishimoto gives a shit what Sasuke fangirls say (and is one himself), and he writes the manga. :zaru

Then he would have gone for them at his best if he was strong enough.

He wasn't at his best. :zaru :zaru :zaru

Or he just absorbs it, he uses space-time Ninjutsu to absorb and as we've seen from Kakashi space-time absorbs anything, including Susano'o, Totsuka and Amaterasu.

Pein stays in a group therefore Taijutsu will do shit.

Shit theory is shit. Fat Pein doesn't have space/time Ninjutsu. I WOULD say "nice try", but...it really wasn't. :zaru

[Hisagi]

Pain is undefeatable :sag He's got the rinnegan which rapestomps any mortal!!

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

And it took you this long to discover my bias. :zaru

No, its just fun to debate with fanboys.

Now, maybe, but not then.


Prove the Sannin were weak.

Not in his prime, which nullifies your argument.

He could still beat Oro at that time remember Oro's "if you were younger you would have succeeded" comment?

IT'S OVER I WON. :zaru


:facepalm

Kishimoto gives a shit what Sasuke fangirls say (and is one himself), and he writes the manga. :zaru

So he then in response to that he creates someone who Itachi and Sasuke can never beat?
Interesting:hmm?

Like I said I believe the manga, and no where in the manga does it say Sasuke is on Pein's level.

He wasn't at his best. :zaru :zaru :zaru


He had 2 powerful artifacts which made him invincible and still didn't go for them, therefore Pein and Madara>>>>>Itachi.

Shit theory is shit. Fat Pein doesn't have space/time Ninjutsu. I WOULD say "nice try", but...it really wasn't. :zaru

He mastered Yin-Yang, Space-time falls under Yin-Yang, and it makes sense, Fat Pein absorbs anything, you've seen from Kakashi space-time attacks absorb anything.

Plus you only say that because it makes Itachi helpless.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Itachi and Sasuke :huh

[PisOgPapir]

I'm pretty sure Itachi and Sasuke would take this.

[hyuuga_neji14732]

Pein would win with difficulty i see them taking down at max 4 bodies Itachi takes out three if hes lucky one with each mangekyo technique and Sasuke maybe taking out one of them with Kirin if he can prepare it so even if there lucky Pein would still most likly win.

[sanji's left eye]

u guys should just make a pein vs itachi if there is so much debate on tht issue. or is tht just nikushimi?

[Shiranui]

It depends on if there are any restrictions on Itachi. Specifically Susano'o, and in what condition is he in? Most recent, or in perfect like his appearance against Kakashi and company?

[Xelt]

Uchiha brothers take the win.

[Hiroshi]

It depends on if there are any restrictions on Itachi. Specifically Susano'o, and in what condition is he in? Most recent, or in perfect like his appearance against Kakashi and company?

Well, the OP states that there are 'no limits.' Though I would like to know more about the location and distance.

I'm assuming that Pain will have a pretty good basic knowledge base on both individuals, possibility meaning that he will avoid eye contact with Itachi as much as possible. This may become an important factor in the battle, though I believe that the Itachi and Sasuke combination will still be able to conjure a plan to allow Itachi's genjutsu to be possible.

[the box]

rock lee is faster than saskue jamn faster than lee pain faster than jman

pain wins

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Pein, Madara and Zetsu obviously share knowledge with each other and remember Madara witnessed Sasuke's fight with Deidara and Zetsu witnessed his fight with Itachi so Pein really knows Sasuke's limits, and Madara has full knowledge of Itachi and would you put it past him to share that knowledge with Pein?

With that said Pein has a huge advantage, he knows about his opponents while his opponents know jack about him, that and Pein is superior to them since he has the superior Doujutsu.

Their Taijutsu is useless since its 2 vs 6 and its required to have at least 2 people to fight the Sharingan.

Genjutsu seems pretty pointless due to the numbers.

Doujutsu seems useless since Pein's jutsu don't seem to be copyable, Susano'o and Amaterasu can be absorbed and Tsukuyomi can be dealt with, remember Tsunade used medical Ninjutsu to free Kakashi and Sasuke from Tsukuyomi and medical Ninjutsu requires the Yin-Yang chakra type, and Pein happens to have mastered it, that or Pein could kill that body and revive it.

Itachi and Sasuke's Kuchiyose jutsu are obviously pointless compared to Peins Kuchiyose jutsu.

Pein's Fuuinjutsu, Genryuu Kyuu Fuujin (Complete Nine Mystical Dragon Seal) is irrelevant to this fight.

And if there really is no limits then Pein solos easily since his Kinjutsu can destroy a country in less then a second.

Finally absorption Pein is the reason their Ninjutsu are useless.
Pein mastered all 6 chakra types (http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/munboyman/Naruto_v41_ch375_11.jpg)

Which are(not all are his jutsu).

Katon (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000335/02.jpg)
Fuuton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000373/12.jpg)
Raiton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000334/15.jpg)
Doton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000120/05.jpg)
Suiton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000257/18.jpg)
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000164/07.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000379/05.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000375/05.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000276/07.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/14.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000380/15.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000240/10.jpg


Now we saw from Kakashi space-time can absorb anything, including jutsu and weapons.
So Pein solos easily.

It also covers jutsu like Kage mane

So with that said Pein solos with little effort.

And finally it doesn't take a genius to realize that Pein's Senjutsu is way better then Sasuke & Itachi's Senjutsu especially since Pein has knowledge of his opponents whereas they have no knowledge on him.

rock lee is faster than saskue jamn faster than lee pain faster than jman

pain wins

Actually Sasuke and Rock Lee are equal in speed, Sasuke is probably faster since he took some medical drugs.
But with power ups Lee w/ gates exceeds Sasuke w/Shunshin in speed, stamina and power.

[maximilyan]

rock lee is faster than saskue jamn faster than lee pain faster than jman

pain wins

Lee probably isnt faster than sasuke anymore.

but w/e i agree, i'd give the win to pein.

[sworder]

Uchiha bros by far.

Susanoo rapes Pain. Kirin cannot be absorbed (real lightning, no chakra). Itachi can aim Amaterasu at any body other than fatty and they get incinerated. Other bodies get distracted by genjutsu and sliced by Sasuke. Summons get turned back on Pain. Pain isn't getting close to use chakra poles, and lolrocketpunch.

Pain barely showed offensive abilities, and whatever he did show are completely useless against the 2 Uchihas.

[Kai]

And if there really is no limits then Pein solos easily since his Kinjutsu can destroy a country in less then a second.
That kinjutsu is still in development, and therefore doesn't exist.

I also fail to see how "No limits" gives speculative jutsu a green light to be used in a battle thread.

[Nikushimi]

u guys should just make a pein vs itachi if there is so much debate on tht issue. or is tht just nikushimi?

"Just Nikushimi"? "JUST NIKUSHIMI"?


THAT IS INSANE. THAT IS A SHAME. Do you know who I am?

I am Niku-motherfucking-shimi. The only "just" is in "justice", which I deal epicly by the minute.



I think there needs to be another Itachi vs. Pein thread. I've already demolished that failure Jiraiya, so now I think it's time for me to tackle his failful little protege. But I must be wary, for Pein fails even harder than Jiraiya. A true one-million Zomaris on the Fail Scale.

Because, really, fan nonsense aside, I believe Itachi and Pein are equals, at the very, VERY least.

[Rescuebear]

"Just Nikushimi"? "JUST NIKUSHIMI"?


THAT IS INSANE. THAT IS A SHAME. Do you know who I am?

I am Niku-motherfucking-shimi. The only "just" is in "justice", which I deal epicly by the minute.

Meh...
Pain crushes Itachi

[Nikushimi]

Meh...
Pain crushes Itachi

RAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.


I'll admit, Pein gains the upperhand in the beginning. However, what's he gonna do against Amaterasu? Fat Pein can't absorb it; Fat Pein needs to touch things before he can absorb them, which is a no-no against Amaterasu. None of the Pein bodies are fast enough to avoid it, so at the very LEAST Itachi is going to eliminate one body per shot, though possibly more. After that comes Susano'o...and what then? Pein's going to have maybe three bodies left at best, and he's going to be able to dodge all of Itachi's swipes for the full duration of the Jutsu? This is Itachi's FINAL Jutsu. Don't underestimate it.

[Rescuebear]

This is how it goes in my head, with what we have seen so far

Itachi vs. Pain (part 1)

+Pain starts with two bodies because of his knowledge of Itachis Genjitsu, his Yahiko body (As this body has no relevant revealed special abilities and i believe this is Pains test/dummy body) and his summoning body.
+Pain Summons and takes the first offensive.
-Itachi counters using Genjitsu on the summon to turn it back against Pain.
+Summoning Pain counters with a second summon, both summons attack each other and are destroyed. Yahiko pain sneaks attacks whilst the summons are distracting Itachi.
-Itachi counters quickly using "Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique" on Yahiko Pain, Yahiko Pain takes medium injuries, but is not killed.
-Itachi captures Summoning Pain in genjitsu, then moves in to finish off Yahiko Pain with Kunai.
-Itachi dosn't realise Summoning Pain can still see through Yahiko Pains eyes, summoning Pain quickly moves in and counter attacks Itachi whist Itachi is focused on Yahiko Pain.
-Itachi dodges and retreats out of either Pain's reach to try to figure out how his genjitsu was ineffective and releases it to conserve chakra.
-Itachi takes the offensive and uses an elemental Ninjitsu to distract Summoning Pain, then again tries to attack Yahiko Pain, Yahiko Pain and Itachi have a close combat Taijitsu stand-off with Itachi over-powering Yahiko Pain and grabbing hold of him. Summoning Pain recovers from Itachi's Ninjitsu and summons his crab summon, the crab summon fires its blast of water at Itachi/Yahiko Pain.
-Itachi is revealed to be a shadow clone and explodes on impact with the water blast, Yahiko Pain is caugh in the blast and is fatally wounded.
+Summoning Pain quickly summons Absorbing Pain and (6th) Reserection Pain.
-Itachi upon seeing Pains two new bodies activates his Mangekyou Sharingan.
+Summoning Pain summons his invisable lizard and Absorbing Pain hides behind it. Absorbing Pain attacks Itachi directly.
-Itachi hits Absorbing Pain perfectly with a burst of Amaterasu.
+Absorbing Pain uses his Space/time ninjitsu to absorb the burst of Amaterasu, Summoning Pain's crab attacks Itachi again. Reserection Pain whilst under the lizard reaches the Yahiko Pain body and revives it.
-Itachi realises Absorbing Pains ability, Itachi deactivates Amaterasu. Itachi notices the absence of the Yahiko Pain body.
-Itachi switches to Tsukuyomi, Itachi captures Absorbing Pain in Tsukuyomi.
+Absorbing Pain Stops moving. Pain considers disconecting with the Absorbing Pain body but decides against it.
+Revived Yahiko Pain attacks from behind Itachi with the black chakra disturbing weapon.
-Itachi captures Yahiko Pain in "Water Style: Water Prison Jutsu", without breaking eye-contact with Absorbing Pain.
+Summoning Pain Summons Tall Pain and Bald Pain.
+Bald Pain fires his arm at Itachi forcing Itachi to dodge and break contact with Absorbing Pain's eyes, and also interupts his "Water Style: Water Prison Jutsu".
+Absorbing Pain collapses.
-Itachi deactivates Tsukuyomi and reactivates Amaterasu, Itachi uses Amaterasu on Yahiko Pain hitting him directly and fatally wounding him again. The Yahiko Body is lost to Pain.
+Bald Pain fires his rocket arm at Itachi again forcing Itachi to dodge, Reserection Pain moves in and revives Absorbing Pain.
+Itachi seeing the Absorbing Pain body revived realises Amaterasu is again useless and deactivates it.
+Absorbing Pain and Tall Pain take the offensive. Absorbing Pain uses an Earth style Ninjitsu, Tall Pain uses a Lightning style Ninjitsu, Bald Pain waits.
+Itachi actives Susano'o before the attacks hit him. Yata No Kagami protects him 90% from all three attacks.
-Itachi counter-attacks Absorbing Pain with Totsuka no Tsurugi, hitting him and sealing him within its genjitsu. Itachi is now at 45% chakra.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

:facepalm @ Itachi fans severely underrating Pein.

Pein's Senjutsu is obviously greater then the Uchiha bros. this is proven due to the fact he hasn't lost a battle, that and he possesses more power.

That kinjutsu is still in development, and therefore doesn't exist.

I also fail to see how "No limits" gives speculative jutsu a green light to be used in a battle thread.

Normally when someone says no limits that means there really are no limits i.e. you can say Pein solos via his Kinjutsu or Pein solos via Shoten.

[Nikushimi]

This is how it goes in my head, with what we have seen so far

Itachi vs. Pain (part 1)

+Pain starts with two bodies because of his knowledge of Itachis Genjitsu, his Yahiko body (As this body has no relevant revealed special abilities and i believe this is Pains test/dummy body) and his summoning body.
+Pain Summons and takes the first offensive.
-Itachi counters using Genjitsu on the summon to turn it back against Pain.
+Summoning Pain counters with a second summon, both summons attack each other and are destroyed. Yahiko pain sneaks attacks whilst the summons are distracting Itachi.
-Itachi counters quickly using "Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique" on Yahiko Pain, Yahiko Pain takes medium injuries, but is not killed.
-Itachi captures Summoning Pain in genjitsu, then moves in to finish off Yahiko Pain with Kunai.
-Itachi dosn't realise Summoning Pain can still see through Yahiko Pains eyes, summoning Pain quickly moves in and counter attacks Itachi whist Itachi is focused on Yahiko Pain.
-Itachi dodges and retreats out of either Pain's reach to try to figure out how his genjitsu was ineffective and releases it to conserve chakra.
-Itachi takes the offensive and uses an elemental Ninjitsu to distract Summoning Pain, then again tries to attack Yahiko Pain, Yahiko Pain and Itachi have a close combat Taijitsu stand-off with Itachi over-powering Yahiko Pain and grabbing hold of him. Summoning Pain recovers from Itachi's Ninjitsu and summons his crab summon, the crab summon fires its blast of water at Itachi/Yahiko Pain.
-Itachi is revealed to be a shadow clone and explodes on impact with the water blast, Yahiko Pain is caugh in the blast and is fatally wounded.
+Summoning Pain quickly summons Absorbing Pain and (6th) Reserection Pain.
-Itachi upon seeing Pains two new bodies activates his Mangekyou Sharingan.
+Summoning Pain summons his invisable lizard and Absorbing Pain hides behind it. Absorbing Pain attacks Itachi directly.
-Itachi hits Absorbing Pain perfectly with a burst of Amaterasu.
+Absorbing Pain uses his Space/time ninjitsu to absorb the burst of Amaterasu, Summoning Pain's crab attacks Itachi again. Reserection Pain whilst under the lizard reaches the Yahiko Pain body and revives it.
-Itachi realises Absorbing Pains ability, Itachi deactivates Amaterasu. Itachi notices the absence of the Yahiko Pain body.
-Itachi switches to Tsukuyomi, Itachi captures Absorbing Pain in Tsukuyomi.
+Absorbing Pain Stops moving. Pain considers disconecting with the Absorbing Pain body but decides against it.
+Revived Yahiko Pain attacks from behind Itachi with the black chakra disturbing weapon.
-Itachi captures Yahiko Pain in "Water Style: Water Prison Jutsu", without breaking eye-contact with Absorbing Pain.
+Summoning Pain Summons Tall Pain and Bald Pain.
+Bald Pain fires his arm at Itachi forcing Itachi to dodge and break contact with Absorbing Pain's eyes, and also interupts his "Water Style: Water Prison Jutsu".
+Absorbing Pain collapses.
-Itachi deactivates Tsukuyomi and reactivates Amaterasu, Itachi uses Amaterasu on Yahiko Pain hitting him directly and fatally wounding him again. The Yahiko Body is lost to Pain.
+Bald Pain fires his rocket arm at Itachi again forcing Itachi to dodge, Reserection Pain moves in and revives Absorbing Pain.
+Itachi seeing the Absorbing Pain body revived realises Amaterasu is again useless and deactivates it.
+Absorbing Pain and Tall Pain take the offensive. Absorbing Pain uses an Earth style Ninjitsu, Tall Pain uses a Lightning style Ninjitsu, Bald Pain waits.
+Itachi actives Susano'o before the attacks hit him. Yata No Kagami protects him 90% from all three attacks.
-Itachi counter-attacks Absorbing Pain with Totsuka no Tsurugi, hitting him and sealing him within its genjitsu. Itachi is now at 45% chakra.

Two key flaws:

1. Tsukuyomi occurs instantly. Once one of them is caught, if the Genjutsu works, it takes full effects and they go down without a fight. There's no "breaking eye contact/concentration."

2. Imaginary Fat Pein space/time Ninjutsu is imaginary. :zaru Fat Pein, as far as we've seen, needs to touch what he's going to absorb before he can absorb it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you, that's a patently-bad idea when faced with Amaterasu.

[Grimmjowsensei]

:facepalm @ Itachi fans severely underrating Pein.

Pein's Senjutsu is obviously greater then the Uchiha bros. this is proven due to the fact he hasn't lost a battle, that and he possesses more power.



Normally when someone says no limits that means there really are no limits i.e. you can say Pein solos via his Kinjutsu or Pein solos via Shoten.

Itachi hasn't lost a battle aswell. Not the no limit thing again. Then Itachi manufactures a nuclear bomb and drops it on top of Pain with a bomber plane or cockslashes pain with his 300 km/h cock, just like Nikushimi says.

[sanji's left eye]

Itachi hasn't lost a battle aswell. Not the no limit thing again. Then Itachi manufactures a nuclear bomb and drops it on top of Pain with a bomber plane or cockslashes pain with his 300 km/h cock, just like Nikushimi says.

wats w/ this cock shit. try saying somthing intelligent w/ your responses

[sanji's left eye]

Pein, Madara and Zetsu obviously share knowledge with each other and remember Madara witnessed Sasuke's fight with Deidara and Zetsu witnessed his fight with Itachi so Pein really knows Sasuke's limits, and Madara has full knowledge of Itachi and would you put it past him to share that knowledge with Pein?

With that said Pein has a huge advantage, he knows about his opponents while his opponents know jack about him, that and Pein is superior to them since he has the superior Doujutsu.

Their Taijutsu is useless since its 2 vs 6 and its required to have at least 2 people to fight the Sharingan.

Genjutsu seems pretty pointless due to the numbers.

Doujutsu seems useless since Pein's jutsu don't seem to be copyable, Susano'o and Amaterasu can be absorbed and Tsukuyomi can be dealt with, remember Tsunade used medical Ninjutsu to free Kakashi and Sasuke from Tsukuyomi and medical Ninjutsu requires the Yin-Yang chakra type, and Pein happens to have mastered it, that or Pein could kill that body and revive it.

Itachi and Sasuke's Kuchiyose jutsu are obviously pointless compared to Peins Kuchiyose jutsu.

Pein's Fuuinjutsu, Genryuu Kyuu Fuujin (Complete Nine Mystical Dragon Seal) is irrelevant to this fight.

And if there really is no limits then Pein solos easily since his Kinjutsu can destroy a country in less then a second.

Finally absorption Pein is the reason their Ninjutsu are useless.
Pein mastered all 6 chakra types (http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/munboyman/Naruto_v41_ch375_11.jpg)

Which are(not all are his jutsu).

Katon (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000335/02.jpg)
Fuuton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000373/12.jpg)
Raiton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000334/15.jpg)
Doton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000120/05.jpg)
Suiton (http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000257/18.jpg)
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000164/07.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000379/05.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000375/05.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000276/07.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000377/14.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000380/15.jpg
http://img36.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000240/10.jpg


Now we saw from Kakashi space-time can absorb anything, including jutsu and weapons.
So Pein solos easily.

It also covers jutsu like Kage mane

So with that said Pein solos with little effort.

And finally it doesn't take a genius to realize that Pein's Senjutsu is way better then Sasuke & Itachi's Senjutsu especially since Pein has knowledge of his opponents whereas they have no knowledge on him.



Actually Sasuke and Rock Lee are equal in speed, Sasuke is probably faster since he took some medical drugs.
But with power ups Lee w/ gates exceeds Sasuke w/Shunshin in speed, stamina and power.

great post and i have suggested tht same thing bout killin the body and revivng it

[shamanking]

i believe if they have good chemistry sasuke and itachi would win

[Rescuebear]

1. Tsukuyomi occurs instantly. Once one of them is caught, if the Genjutsu works, it takes full effects and they go down without a fight. There's no "breaking eye contact/concentration."
-ok, dosnt make much difference here but i corrected it for you anyway...

2. Imaginary Fat Pein space/time Ninjutsu is imaginary. Fat Pein, as far as we've seen, needs to touch what he's going to absorb before he can absorb it. I'm sure I don't need to tell you, that's a patently-bad idea when faced with Amaterasu.[/QUOTE]
-Im sure touching Jaraiyas huge Rasengan would be just as deadly as touching Amaterasu. Space/time Ninjitsu seems to be the best explination so far, thats not to say it 100% proven that it is space time Ninjitsu, but i had to make some assumptions on either side, i though it was portrayed well...

so...
Itachi vs. Pain (part 1) version two

+Pain starts with two bodies because of his knowledge of Itachis Genjitsu, his Yahiko body (As this body has no relevant revealed special abilities and i believe this is Pains test/dummy body) and his summoning body.
+Pain Summons and takes the first offensive.
-Itachi counters using Genjitsu on the summon to turn it back against Pain.
+Summoning Pain counters with a second summon, both summons attack each other and are destroyed. Yahiko pain sneaks attacks whilst the summons are distracting Itachi.
-Itachi counters quickly using "Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique" on Yahiko Pain, Yahiko Pain takes medium injuries, but is not killed.
-Itachi captures Summoning Pain in genjitsu, then moves in to finish off Yahiko Pain with Kunai.
-Itachi dosn't realise Summoning Pain can still see through Yahiko Pains eyes, summoning Pain quickly moves in and counter attacks Itachi whist Itachi is focused on Yahiko Pain.
-Itachi dodges and retreats out of either Pain's reach to try to figure out how his genjitsu was ineffective and releases it to conserve chakra.
-Itachi takes the offensive and uses an elemental Ninjitsu to distract Summoning Pain, then again tries to attack Yahiko Pain, Yahiko Pain and Itachi have a close combat Taijitsu stand-off with Itachi over-powering Yahiko Pain and grabbing hold of him. Summoning Pain recovers from Itachi's Ninjitsu and summons his crab summon, the crab summon fires its blast of water at Itachi/Yahiko Pain.
-Itachi is revealed to be a shadow clone and explodes on impact with the water blast, Yahiko Pain is caugh in the blast and is fatally wounded.
+Summoning Pain quickly summons Absorbing Pain and (6th) Reserection Pain.
-Itachi upon seeing Pains two new bodies activates his Mangekyou Sharingan.
+Summoning Pain summons his invisable lizard and Absorbing Pain hides behind it. Absorbing Pain attacks Itachi directly.
-Itachi hits Absorbing Pain perfectly with a burst of Amaterasu.
+Absorbing Pain uses his Space/time ninjitsu to absorb the burst of Amaterasu, Summoning Pain's crab attacks Itachi again. Reserection Pain whilst under the lizard reaches the Yahiko Pain body and revives it.
-Itachi realises Absorbing Pains ability, Itachi deactivates Amaterasu. Itachi notices the absence of the Yahiko Pain body.
-Itachi switches to Tsukuyomi, Itachi captures Absorbing Pain in Tsukuyomi.
+Absorbing Pain collapses.
+Revived Yahiko Pain attacks from behind Itachi with the black chakra disturbing weapon.
-Itachi captures Yahiko Pain in "Water Style: Water Prison Jutsu".
+Summoning Pain Summons Tall Pain and Bald Pain.
+Bald Pain fires his arm at Itachi forcing Itachi to dodge and interupts his "Water Style: Water Prison Jutsu".
-Itachi deactivates Tsukuyomi and reactivates Amaterasu, Itachi uses Amaterasu on Yahiko Pain hitting him directly and fatally wounding him again. The Yahiko Body is lost to Pain.
+Bald Pain fires his rocket arm at Itachi again forcing Itachi to dodge, Reserection Pain moves in and revives Absorbing Pain.
+Itachi seeing the Absorbing Pain body revived realizes Amaterasu is again useless and deactivates it.
+Absorbing Pain and Tall Pain take the offensive. Absorbing Pain uses an Earth style Ninjitsu, Tall Pain uses a Lightning style Ninjitsu, Bald Pain waits.
+Itachi actives Susano'o before the attacks hit him. Yata No Kagami protects him 90% from all three attacks.
-Itachi counter-attacks Absorbing Pain with Totsuka no Tsurugi, hitting him and sealing him within its genjitsu. Itachi is now at 45% chakra.

[Cooli]

Pein would win

[Kai]

Normally when someone says no limits that means there really are no limits i.e. you can say Pein solos via his Kinjutsu or Pein solos via Shoten.
Well firstly, Pain doesn't solo via kinjutsu because the kinjutsu doesn't exist.

Secondly, Pain doesn't solo via Shoten because he needs other members or individuals for that technique...individuals that aren't even included in the mentioned battle.

OP just feels a need to say "no limits" because the majority of OP that post here are too fond in placing restrictions on characters.

[Nikushimi]

-Im sure touching Jaraiyas huge Rasengan would be just as deadly as touching Amaterasu. Space/time Ninjitsu seems to be the best explination so far, thats not to say it 100% proven that it is space time Ninjitsu, but i had to make some assumptions on either side, i though it was portrayed well...

Chou Oodama Rasengan is just a giant-ass Rasengan; both Kabuto and Shouten Itachi have taken direct hits from Rasengan and pretty much retained their human forms. With Amaterasu, you're obliterated completely, unless Itachi cancels it out before it consumes you all the way. It's not a destructive force Ninjutsu, it's a combustion Ninjutsu. It burns you.

At this point, we know NOTHING about Fat Pein's absorption ability. Calling it a space/time Ninjutsu is complete speculation. I'll admit, it's a pretty little theory, but until you can show me something substantial I can't accept it. Before I went around spewing my chakra theories left and right as fact, I made sure I had filled in all the major holes and connected every aspect of it with direct statements and examples, as best I could. I would expect the same from you.

[Grimmjowsensei]

wats w/ this cock shit. try saying somthing intelligent w/ your responses

so you think pain soloing this with kinjutsu(wtf is that) and shouten is intelligent ?

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Well firstly, Pain doesn't solo via kinjutsu because the kinjutsu doesn't exist.

Secondly, Pain doesn't solo via Shoten because he needs other members or individuals for that technique...individuals that aren't even included in the mentioned battle.

OP just feels a need to say "no limits" because the majority of OP that post here are too fond in placing restrictions on characters.

Yes, there are no limits no restrictions were mentioned, therefore applies:edu

Itachi hasn't lost a battle aswell. Not the no limit thing again. Then Itachi manufactures a nuclear bomb and drops it on top of Pain with a bomber plane or cockslashes pain with his 300 km/h cock, just like Nikushimi says.


What?
You should know by now every time I see a thread in the battledome that says no limits and Pein I'll go Shoten.

so you think pain soloing this with kinjutsu(wtf is that) and shouten is intelligent ?

I say the Shoten and Kinjutsu for the sake of silliness.

You in particular should know this.

[DennisKungenSvensk]

been done to many times, Itachi Soloes.

[Disturbia]

Having the Rinnegan, Pein should be able to win easily against them.

[Kai]

Yes, there are no limits no restrictions were mentioned, therefore applies:edu
I'll repeat.

"OP just feels a need to say "no limits" because the majority of OP that post here are too fond in placing restrictions on characters."

[Gentle Fist]

he still gottem outnumbered

Pein

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

I'll repeat.

"OP just feels a need to say "no limits" because the majority of OP that post here are too fond in placing restrictions on characters."

But its still no limits.

[sworder]

Who cares if there's no limits? It doesn't mean he gets Akatsuki members to join his side. If he can't use his own jutsus w/o help, then he's not using them at all.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Who cares if there's no limits? It doesn't mean he gets Akatsuki members to join his side. If he can't use his own jutsus w/o help, then he's not using them at all.

But there are no limits :awesome