Timeskip Sasuke vs Kimmimaro (healthy)

[vagnard]

15 years old Kimmimaro trained by Oro vs 15 years old Sasuke trained by Oro.

[Devilguy]

This thread is a few weaks too early. The only answer that can be given depends on plot logic. But there are always fanboys who will deny that. I therefore suggest we wait (hopefully not too long) and see...

[Esponer]

I agree with Devilguy - I was going to make this topic, but was waiting until we see the new Sasuke. My guess is that Sasuke would win, however.

[DrunkenYoshimaster]

Id say plot logic wise Sasuke. At least he should be better than Kimimaro showed himself to be sick.
Afterall having the 3 tomoe sharingan should have him picking up jutsu's from Oro at an insane rate, and make his dodging ability at least on par with Kimimaro's. Plus Kimi's CS2 ability seemed to slow him down, but it never seemed that way with Sasuke.

Youd think the main characters will be improving faster than anyone like in most shonen manga, especially while training under Sannin. So if Gaara is improving enough to become Kazekage, and he probably would defeat Kimi now in a rematch (and has grown enough to), I'd say Naruto and Sasuke would as well. Especially when unleashing their full power.

[Seon]

I would say Sasuke Pre-Time skip would give Kimimaro a run for his money. Let alone post time skip. Sasuke has this definetly,a genius, he could sit at the Oro head quarters with his Sharingan eyes open and watch as Oro shows him how to perform jutsu after jutsu this would take a good 1 hour per jutsu

[~/Gaara of the sand/~]

I'd vote Kimimaro because I like him more but Sasuke would win

[Moritsune]

i'd have to wait and see Sasuke's new abilities. though from their abilities before time skip i'd go with Kimi

[itachiunleashed]

sasuke only because he has to have gained immense power over 3 years learning the abilities of cs2

[Sho]

Sasuke. There's no way in hell Sasuke's gonna be weaker than pre-time skip Gaara and Kimimarou.

[Tautou]

Sasuke would be able to at least give Kimi a challenge before the skip. He should be much more powerful than he was before now, so I'm guessing Sasuke would win this.

But that doesn't change the fact that you're attempting to compare someone we haven't even seen yet, to someone we've seen but in a condition that makes his strength another unknown. Seriously, patience.

[Shishou]

We havn't even seen Sasuke yet, for all we know, he is dead.

[DrunkenYoshimaster]

We havn't even seen Sasuke yet, for all we know, he is dead.

lol, maybe if this were real life, but you know with the way manga works theres not a chance in hell of that. And I thought code was being anti uchiha biased with the "kisame could have surpassed Itachi" argument...

[BattousaiMS]

humm tough call. It would all depend of the type of ranged jutsu Sasuke has.

This I say because from what we have seen, Kimimarou would ripp him apart at close range. There is also a problem here, we have no clue if what other ninjutsu Kimimaro actually knows, his ninjutsu is pretty high but the only ninjutsu in his bloodline is his Sawarabi no Mai (dance of the seeding ferns), I do think Orochimaru taught him plenty of his own jutsus although Kimi did not use them.

Sawarabi no Mai in itself is a near impossible task for Sasuke to handel no matter how much he has grown. You basically have to either fly or be able to teleport or simply have instant regeneration to avoid it.

Not to mention, Kimimaro is pretty darn solid, thouse long range jutsus must be very strong (something I don't think Orochimaru might teach Sasuke) to do some damage on him. I mean he is the only guy till date to have got caught(fully) in Gaara's Sabaku Kyuu and walk out as if nothing really happen from hims Sabaku Sousou. That tells you alot, mainly you better have a jutsu that would be extremely fast and strong enough to go trough his freaking bone armors and be be long range with it.

So I atm I don't think Sasuke has much chance even with 2.5 years of training . I guess my opinion might change when he see him back and if he shows a technique that can do what i gust mentionned.

[Tautou]

There is also a problem here, we have no clue if what other ninjutsu Kimimaro actually knows, his ninjutsu is pretty high

Wow. So he does not use a single actual ninjutsu the whole fight even though he himself realizes that it would be hard to get close to Gaara, but it somehow matters that he has a high ninjutsu stat.

The stats don't reflect on fighting style. Regardless of whatever ninjutsu he knows, he wouldn't use them on Sasuke. I'm guessing this is Kimi in the manga vs. Sasuke in the manga, not the Kimi and Sasuke people would imagine after seeing the stats.

[MartialHorror]

Sasuke probably,

I have a feeling he will be very powerful. The cursed seal seems to be at its most powerful with him because of his negative and hateful feelings, and I have a feeling it will make him even more powerful than all the others.

[BattousaiMS]

Wow. So he does not use a single actual ninjutsu the whole fight even though he himself realizes that it would be hard to get close to Gaara, but it somehow matters that he has a high ninjutsu stat.

The stats don't reflect on fighting style. Regardless of whatever ninjutsu he knows, he wouldn't use them on Sasuke. I'm guessing this is Kimi in the manga vs. Sasuke in the manga, not the Kimi and Sasuke people would imagine after seeing the stats.
Hey hey I just said that it is possible he know quite a few tricks other then his bloodline. Besides, even without those ninjutsus (assuming he dosn't have any other, which would be entirely false considering he is Orochimaru's #1 lacky) Sasuke would still need to come up with a long range powerful jutsu that can really hurt him. From what we have seen till now there hasn't been that many long ranged and certainly not as powerfulas the closed ranges were.

[MartialHorror]

I dont know if Kimimaro can do much against Katon..........I have a feeling Sasuke is somehow going to have that dark katon Itachi used...

[RaitoRyuukashin]

I have a feeling Sasuke is somehow going to have that dark katon Itachi used...
Amaretsu? Thats not a katon in particular but a m. sharingan special ninjutsu.

[MartialHorror]

Really? The one Itachi used to get out of that frogs belly?

Well, maybe Sasuke will find a new way to get Mengakyu.

[theoneandonly]

we do not see the post-timeskip sasuke yet....but for now i vote for sasuke

[lwong81]

what was kimi's illness anyway?....

sasuke takes it, why, cause chidori and whatever oro teachi him.

[MartialHorror]

AIDS. Curse that Orochamaru!

Sadly, Orochamaru will never understand that as long as he keeps having his way with his future containers, they will always die sickly.......

why does he keep Kabuto around? Because he's immune.

lol.

[Kyuubi Naruto]

We dont know right now. I mean since we haven't seen post timeskip Sasuke. Ill go out on a limb and say that that it will be even. We actually dont know. Im guessing that Naruto is stronger then Kimimaro right now and Im guessing that Sasuke will be around there. So I dont know. Sasuke's might be stronger but I dont see how Sasuke can get through Kimi's defenses. I mean Naruto can use Oodama Rasengan but using Chidori means Sasuke better be able to feel some bones peircing in his body.

[Sho]

Let me just say this right now as a fact: Sasuke will be stronger than Kimimarou when he's unveiled. There's no need to even wonder about that. He will be, no question.

[Aman]

Sasuke. Why? Because i think that he's higher then Kimi's level.

[Invisus]

Post Timeskip Sasuke will be strong enough to kill CSL2 Kimimaro without having to use the Cursed Seal.

[raoul2000]

Stupid thread, of course Sasuke wins: 3 years of training with Oro, like duh!
Why do people do this? It's not even fair...give Kimimaro 3 years of training with Oro too without the sickness from the point he died and he'd destroy post time skip Sasuke no problem at all.

[MartialHorror]

well, Neji is a Jounin and Kimimaro was Jounin level,

I'm assuming Sasuke will be Jounin level as well.......

[Marvin]

kimimaro would win, since a near dead kimimaro was almost able to kill gaara, and gaara (during kimimaro fight) >>>>> post time skip sasuke (who spend the last 2.5 years tied up on Orochimaru bed).

[BattousaiMS]

Erm I don't think some of you understand how mangas work... especially not Naruto. You can't simply say A beat B and C beats A so C can beat B. This isn't DBZ, it all depends on each persons advantages/disadvatages against each other.

It's also common to kill strong people (who are naturally too strong for the hero to handle early). In that sense, Kimimaro is one of the strongest young shinobi we have sceen he will porblably would have been the strongest even after the 2.5 years.

He has way to many advantages over Sasuke to not be considered that. So yeah Sasuke might surpass him but in the end Kimi might still win because he's bloodline favors him against someone with sharingan or byakugan bloodline. I think what i am saying that in order to defeat Kimimaro Sasuke would probably need way more then 2.5 years of Orochimaru training. For one thing, Orochimaru trained Kimimaro far longer then he would be training Sasuke. It all depends on what we see in Sasuke's impourvement.

But technically, if you want to have any chance against Kimimaro you would need either a extremely strong defense (Gaara) or instant regeneration abilities (Naruto). Because weather you defeat him or not one thing is sure most likely you will be gravly injured.

Now sharingan dosn't offer that, so it means Sasuke has to engange Kimi from a hefty distance and uptill now we havn't seen that many jutsu that can do that much critical dmg from such a long distance. There is another possibility and that's by Gaara's methode, stop his movement and bury him alive. Now although this didn't work well for Gaara we know it would have worked if it was Jiraiya's doton yomi nuuma since well it burys you in a sort of tarpit and those are hard to get out off, but then again the question would be how big it would be and how fast can he be pulled in. Atleast we know that Sasuke won't have that jutsu since it's a Jiraiya special, but Orochimaru might have something similar if he does good for Sasuke, if he dosn't and Sasuke dosn't have any long range jutsus tha is deadly eough, well then he loses weather or not he was able to outgrow Kimimaro in stats/ranking/power.

[MartialHorror]

Actually, I think Sasuke is a bad matchup for Kimimaro.

Chidori might tear through Kimimaro's bones, and if not, I dont know if Kimimaros bones can protect him from Katon.

[sel]

I would say Sasuke Pre-Time skip would give Kimimaro a run for his money. Let alone post time skip
i really dont have any idea where u came up with that, kimi took on 1000 kyuubified narutos, while sasuke did aswell, but got badly beat in the process.
kimi in his prime was also a million times better than the one weve seen, and at the age of 9, he managed to outperform his whole clan by sdurviving the attack on the mist

so kimi all the way

[jemakai]

People, Kimi is not invincible I imagine that high genjutsu would work on him like anyone else. Of course some will say that he is some how immune to genjutsu, but those people are beyond help.
This isn't even a question, do some of you even watch other anime's or read other manga's? Have some of you taken even a basic writing class? Tell me, what sense would it make for kisimoto to NOT have Sasuke stronger then kimi post time skip? Sasuke is supposed to be Naruto's rival, not neji, not Gaara, not Kimi. Naruto is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with Ataksuki members now, one member of that said group beat Gaara and said it was "normal difficulty". Sasuke is the rival of the nine tails holder, the strongest demon. Hell, according to anime rules Sasuke will probably be stronger then Naruto in the begining of the time skip so it will hype up their rematch and give Naruto a new peak to climb over.

To me it was obvious that pre time skip kimi had nothing that could stop chidori, and with a mastered sharingan Sasuke and Lee speed kimi's only taijutsu style would not be able to hit(unless you believe kimi in his base form was faster then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto, in which case no one can help you). I don't see kimi having anything to stop a black chidori, even the bones of his his over hyped DOSF would be riped apart by a black chidori(yeah, Sasuke can use it in other ways then just blindly stabing it at kimi).

[BattousaiMS]

Actually, I think Sasuke is a bad matchup for Kimimaro.

Chidori might tear through Kimimaro's bones, and if not, I dont know if Kimimaros bones can protect him from Katon.

It wouldn't really...

Gaara's Sabakou sousou technically deformed Kimimaro's body to a point where he lost facial skin as well as other body skin and Kimi acted like nothing happened. So getting bured by katon wouldn't do him that much damage wither unless it's a very high powered one like katon karyuu endan, which might burn him severly to a point burning part of his bone also. If you didn't know it takes a shit load of fire and time to burn trough bones with regular fire.

As for chidori, well it would work well on Kimi but you have to remember that Kimi will at the same time impale Sasuke at the same time. So here he did win the battle but lost the war (mainly his life). Where someone like Naruto who let's say used his chikara a very high force (powerful eough to instantly disinterigtrate bone upon impact like a buttered knife) rasengan would succeed get severly injured (nearly dieing) but win by default because Kyuubi would instantly heal him (that is if Kimi dosn't chop his head off).

So yeah both are at a huge disadvatage against Kimimarou. Because Sasuke dosn't have regeneration and Naruto's rasengan dosn't work like chidori.

Now genjutsu like the guy above said would work greatly on Kimimaro especially if it's fron long range. But here we have to remember that Sasuke isn't a genjutsu type user neither is Naruto. Neither will go with an genjutsu at first like let's say Itachi who is a gen/nin type fight while Sasuke and Naruto are nin/tai types.

[Devilguy]

Even after witnessing Sasuke's amazing growth they will refuse to eat their words. Until Sasuke is clearly shown beating Kimi (this will never happen, good for them) or Neji (a very unprobable fight, how lucky) or whoever their favorite character is, the fanboys will never acknowledge the obvious. And even if it happened, some of them would still be in denial, as proven by the "Valley of the End" battle.

[BattousaiMS]

Even after witnessing Sasuke's amazing growth they will refuse to eat their words. Until Sasuke is clearly shown beating Kimi (this will never happen, good for them) or Neji (a very unprobable fight, how lucky) or whoever their favorite character is, the fanboys will never acknowledge the obvious. And even if it happened, some of them would still be in denial, as proven by the "Valley of the End" battle.
:headscrat
The only one who is adding teh fanboyism material here is you buddy. What all of us have been talking about the advantages and disadvantages of Kimimaru's bloodline to Sasuke's. So how about staying in the topic and reveal your reasons why you think Sasuke might win instead of using that lame excuse of yours.

[Last of the Uchihas]

I believe that Kimimaro and Sasuke would be in the same level, but Sasuke might have an advantages since he seems to be Oro's favorite vessel. He would also learn all things more quickly and possibly be the future successor of the snake scroll, something that Kimimaro didn't have.

We have to remember that Kimimaro would have kill those three genins (Naruto, Lee and Gaara) even with one foot on his grave. So that make you think how powerful Kimimaro trully was.

i mean he owned Kyuubified Naruto without breaking a sweat, and in his normal form, not to mention that he survived Gaara's deadly jutsu one after another, and he doesn't even have a Youma to heal him.

[Moritsune]

good point. it's pretty likely. rofl

[Devilguy]

:headscrat
The only one who is adding teh fanboyism material here is you buddy. What all of us have been talking about the advantages and disadvantages of Kimimaru's bloodline to Sasuke's. So how about staying in the topic and reveal your reasons why you think Sasuke might win instead of using that lame excuse of yours.First I don't think Sasuke would have "owned" Kimimaro pre timeskip. It's really hard to tell who would have won in my opinion.
I agree with most of Jemakai's post and thus don't need to repeat the same things all over again. With more than two years training with Orochimaru, a jutsu master and merely one of the most powerful nins seen so far in the manga, Sasuke can only have hugely improved. Unless Kishimoto is planning to make his manga last for more than a hundred additional chapters, Sasuke should not be much below Kakashi fighting-wise after the timeskip.

[Code]

We haven't seen post time skip sasuke. Nor have we seen healthy Kimimaro. Going by stats, he was quite a capable ninja, faster than Rock Lee, incredibly strong, and blah blah blah blah. Then throw in his bloodline and well, he's incredibly strong.

So I'd say Sasuke unless he's near Kakashi's level after the time skip.

[Devilguy]

We haven't seen post time skip sasuke. Nor have we seen healthy Kimimaro. Going by stats, he was quite a capable ninja, faster than Rock Lee, incredibly strong, and blah blah blah blah. Then throw in his bloodline and well, he's incredibly strong.

So I'd say Sasuke unless he's near Kakashi's level after the time skip.
Could you please precise your thoughts? Maybe it's just me but I don't get what you mean with your last sentence compared to the rest of your post. (No offense)

[jemakai]

Let me adress a few things.

Gaara's Sabakou sousou technically deformed Kimimaro's body to a point where he lost facial skin as well as other body skin and Kimi acted like nothing happened. So getting bured by katon wouldn't do him that much damage wither unless it's a very high powered one like katon karyuu endan, which might burn him severly to a point burning part of his bone also. If you didn't know it takes a shit load of fire and time to burn trough bones with regular fire.

You are right, Katons will not kill kill Kimi. Katons will certainly keep every form but CS2 kimi at bay. Katon it will burn off his skin, stall him, and block kimi's vision for a bit.


As for chidori, well it would work well on Kimi but you have to remember that Kimi will at the same time impale Sasuke at the same time. So here he did win the battle but lost the war (mainly his life). Where someone like Naruto who let's say used his chikara a very high force (powerful eough to instantly disinterigtrate bone upon impact like a buttered knife) rasengan would succeed get severly injured (nearly dieing) but win by default because Kyuubi would instantly heal him (that is if Kimi dosn't chop his head off).

Something powerfull enough to instantly disintegrate like a butter knife?
I remember a move being called a sword that can cut through anything, I believe that includes bones. What was the name of that move again.....Oyeah! It was called chidori. Whats stoping Sasuke from using his chidori to rip through the bones that he would have already seen with his sharingan?
Stay with me here. Lee and Sasuke has the same speed. Lee was slower then his normal speed when he fought kimi and he was drunk(thus reaction time is even slower), yet his head was not choped off instantly. Sasuke with his mastered sharingan was able to predict and dodge attacks from both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto, who both were much faster then him. So tell me, do you really believe kimi's 4.5 speed is greater then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto? Do you really believe that if a slower then normal drunk Lee wasn't instantly killed at close range by kimi that a faster Sasuke who can see all Kimi's attacks before they happen will be killed?


So yeah both are at a huge disadvatage against Kimimarou. Because Sasuke dosn't have regeneration and Naruto's rasengan dosn't work like chidori.

Now genjutsu like the guy above said would work greatly on Kimimaro especially if it's fron long range. But here we have to remember that Sasuke isn't a genjutsu type user neither is Naruto. Neither will go with an genjutsu at first like let's say Itachi who is a gen/nin type fight while Sasuke and Naruto are nin/tai types.

Thats the thing, Sasuke doesn't need to be a genjutsu type to use genjutsu. He has sharingan, which comes with powerfull genjutsu already(remember Kakashi vs Zabuza?) and after 2.5 years he will be able to do some nasty things with his sharingan. Not only that, but with his sharingan all he needs to do is watch a high level genjutsu being used and record it, even though he is a nin/taijutsu type his sharingan allows him to have jutsu's in his arsenal that he wouldn't normally use but would be usefull in different situations. So basically, Sasuke would have many jutsu's(gen, nin, and tai) to use in situations were he needs them(such as high level genjutsu against a taijutsu monster).

[unimatrixzer0]

I'd say pre-timeskip Sasuke could've beaten Kimi with CS2 Chidori. So even easier win for timeskip Sasuke IMO.

Chidori is like a knife, and if Kimi did try to counter thats why Sasuke has his Sharingan to dodge. Thats what Yondaime told Kakashi the flaw in his Chidori was that he could not counter an enemies attack because he would not be able to see, but with the Sharingan you can.

I'm just basing that on my belief that they saved the last battle for the strongest fighters being Naruto and Sasuke.

Dunno if a healthy Kimi would have made him any stronger. He seemed fine except for every once in a while experiencing pain and coughing up blood.

[m3lk0r]

Too many assumptions are being made here..... For all we know Sasuke is Oro's new sex toy....
I'll wait till we get to see him atleast....

[Code]

Could you please precise your thoughts? Maybe it's just me but I don't get what you mean with your last sentence compared to the rest of your post. (No offense)
Point is... we haven't seen Healthy Kimimaro. Nor have we seen Post Time Skip Sasuke.

Kimimaro, judging by his stats and his bloodline abilities, is quite a strong person. I'd say unless Sasuke has improved so much that he is near Kakashi level, as in Jounin level, then I'd say Kimimaro.

[Kamendex]

Kimimaro was trained longer then 2.5 years, and has a better bloodline...

[SamuraiSoul]

I believe that Kimimaro and Sasuke would be in the same level, but Sasuke might have an advantages since he seems to be Oro's favorite vessel. He would also learn all things more quickly and possibly be the future successor of the snake scroll, something that Kimimaro didn't have.

We have to remember that Kimimaro would have kill those three genins (Naruto, Lee and Gaara) even with one foot on his grave. So that make you think how powerful Kimimaro trully was.

i mean he owned Kyuubified Naruto without breaking a sweat, and in his normal form, not to mention that he survived Gaara's deadly jutsu one after another, and he doesn't even have a Youma to heal him.

Good points here, good points. However, I believe Orochimaru wanted Kimimaro way more than Sasuke. If Kimimaro wasn't sick, you can believe Orochimaru would be in him right now.


....ugh, that sounds wrong >_>

[Last of the Uchihas]

Good points here, good points. However, I believe Orochimaru wanted Kimimaro way more than Sasuke. If Kimimaro wasn't sick, you can believe Orochimaru would be in him right now.


....ugh, that sounds wrong >_>

Oro came to like Kimimaro after Itachi gave him a hell of a beating or whatever he did to make Oro say that Itachi > Oro.



We must also remember that Oro's goal in life is to learn all jutsus and creates new jutsus, with Kimimaros body is indeed very powerful, he wouldn't be able to copy all jutsu quickly like an Uhciha can, that's why he wants an Uchiha body.

[Code]

Last of the Uchihas.

Is there a reason Orochimaru said Kimimaro's body is the one he desired most?

[Last of the Uchihas]

Last of the Uchihas.

Is there a reason Orochimaru said Kimimaro's body is the one he desired most?

Didn't he say he plans to learn all the jutsus and that he needed something for that because he would die of old age before he could do that

Two things come into mind, His immortality jutsu and his dream of having a Uchiha body with the shairngan, especially Itachi.

Didn't he said that having Itachi is just but a dream since he is stronger than him? :amuse

This is way before Kimimaro.

[Code]

He said he desired Kimiaro the most while waiting for Sasuke....

"The most."

He wants a perfect body most of all. He can learn jutsus if he lives forever. Besides, didn't Orochimaru experiment? With a shiarngan you can only learn jutsus others use. He seems to experiment and create jutsus rather than going around learning them.

[Last of the Uchihas]

He said he desired Kimiaro the most while waiting for Sasuke....

"The most."

Yeah and who's body he wanted "most" before those two came?

Itachi, the heir of the Uchiha with the sharingan.



He wants a perfect body most of all.

So perfect that Kimimaro died of all illness. lol

The Uchiha have one of the most perfect bodies, if not the perfect body of all since their shairngan can allow them to adapt to any situation.

That's a perfect body.


He can learn jutsus if he lives forever.

Not with Kimimaro's body since he would get old or die of ald age way before he accomplish his goal in life, learn all jutsu and create new ones, thus making him a god.

That takes patience and that's something that Oro doesn't have.
The sharingan accelerate this process, which is something that Oro wants more than anything, fast results.


Besides, didn't Orochimaru experiment? With a shiarngan you can only learn jutsus others use. He seems to experiment and create jutsus rather than going around learning them.


He experiemnt on people not on him. Didn't you see the flashack where he was experimenting on other people's bodies.

Sharingan doesn't create jutsus, it's the genius behind the sharingan that creates jutsus, and according to The God of the Shinobis, Oro is a genius bursting with a lot of talent that only appears every few decades.

[jemakai]

To be fair at the time yeah Oro wanted kimi more then Sasuke. Kimi was more advanced in his bloodline then Sasuke(who at the time he made the statement only had a 2 tomoe sharingan) and was older thus closer to his prime. Oro stated when he first appeared during the chuunin exam that he wanted Sasuke to grow up a little to better suit his tastes before he took his body, so if his arms were not taken away he would have simply planted the curse seal on Sasuke and waited till around his 20's when he is peaking. Obviously plans change.
But, Oro also made the statement that he saw in Sasuke's eye's the potential to surpass Itachi. I imagine Oro would take Itachi's body over either kimi or Sasuke because his is stronger then even himself. Although in the long term he probably felt Sasuke will surpass both Kimi and Itachi. Best case scenario for Oro would be to have both Kimi and Sasuke so in the short term he can have the perfect body(kimi) and in the long term have the body with the most potential(Sasuke).

[Code]

Meh.

Just know that Kimimaro said it was a pity he got ill and that he desired Kimimaro's body most of all.

[SamuraiSoul]

I'm pretty sure if Kimimaro wasn't sick, Orochimaru would have taken over his body by now. And while he does want Sasuke a lot, Kimimaro was first. He wants a lot of young boys bodies >_>

[Jiraiya_sama]

tough one I must admit
I'll go for healthy kimimaro tho

[morino ibiki]

a lot of people have actually made threads about healthy kimmimaro vs. (whatever)
but i was the first in doing so anyway!

[raoul2000]

To speak the truth, was Kimimaro trained that long by Oro?

I mean, we don't know exactly when he stopped fighting to sleep in that hospital bed because of his disease...he may only have trained for a couple of months.

[shintebukuro]

...

Sasuke will be far above jounin level when we next see him, I guarantee you that.

[Chatulio]

Really? The one Itachi used to get out of that frogs belly?

Well, maybe Sasuke will find a new way to get Mengakyu.



:huh i kinda doubt that there is a different way too get it since in the entire uchiha clan history it has only been used once before and also it says it in the little uchiha meeting house scroll

[Devilguy]

Meh.

Just know that Kimimaro said it was a pity he got ill and that he desired Kimimaro's body most of all.If it was possible, I guess that Orochimaru would gladly take Kimimaro's body AND Sasuke's eyes. According to Orochimaru's philosophy, the sharingan should be his top priority though. But I can't deny what was said, which sounds really strange, especially after Orochimaru admitted Itachi's superiority and Sasuke's greater potential. Kishimoto created Kimimaro only afterwards and has somehow made a contradiction.

[Shishou]

Wait, Orochimaru fought Itachi?

Orochimaru wanted Itachi's body?


Wow, I don't recall that ever happening. Way to go LotU, you are still spouting nonsense.

[Moritsune]

it's never been stated that Oro actually fought Itachi, but Oro did want Itachi's body to be his container. just thought that u might wanna know Shishou. rofl

[BattousaiMS]

Let me adress a few things.



You are right, Katons will not kill kill Kimi. Katons will certainly keep every form but CS2 kimi at bay. Katon it will burn off his skin, stall him, and block kimi's vision for a bit.

Something powerfull enough to instantly disintegrate like a butter knife?
I remember a move being called a sword that can cut through anything, I believe that includes bones. What was the name of that move again.....Oyeah! It was called chidori. Whats stoping Sasuke from using his chidori to rip through the bones that he would have already seen with his sharingan?
Stay with me here. Lee and Sasuke has the same speed. Lee was slower then his normal speed when he fought kimi and he was drunk(thus reaction time is even slower), yet his head was not choped off instantly. Sasuke with his mastered sharingan was able to predict and dodge attacks from both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto, who both were much faster then him. So tell me, do you really believe kimi's 4.5 speed is greater then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto? Do you really believe that if a slower then normal drunk Lee wasn't instantly killed at close range by kimi that a faster Sasuke who can see all Kimi's attacks before they happen will be killed?

Thats the thing, Sasuke doesn't need to be a genjutsu type to use genjutsu. He has sharingan, which comes with powerfull genjutsu already(remember Kakashi vs Zabuza?) and after 2.5 years he will be able to do some nasty things with his sharingan. Not only that, but with his sharingan all he needs to do is watch a high level genjutsu being used and record it, even though he is a nin/taijutsu type his sharingan allows him to have jutsu's in his arsenal that he wouldn't normally use but would be usefull in different situations. So basically, Sasuke would have many jutsu's(gen, nin, and tai) to use in situations were he needs them(such as high level genjutsu against a taijutsu monster).

Katon won't stall him, Gaara's sand didn't stall him so neither will fire which is lighter then sand but it will burn his skin but the thing is from what we seen burning his skin or even massive disfiguration dosn't flinch him much (and that is 1 foot in grave) so basically Sasuke has to hit him with something that will damage his bones not only his skin.

That's just what I said, Sasuke does have an effective move against Kimimaru already but the problem is he doesn't have the life insurence, while Naruto has the life insurence but not the move. So if they can both (let's say by miracle of nature) merge togather then they can already defeat kimimaru. It's like it takes two of them combined to take him down alone each of them will fail in their own way.

A possible way would be that Naruto launches at Kimimaru with rasengan and take the blow while Sasuke chidori's from behind while Kimimaru is busy hitting Naruto.

Sharingan dosn't come with genjutsu it can cancel genjutsu if the users will is stronger then the projector's (or in genjutsu field). Its the user who projects the genjutsu. Kakashi's "I can copy your move instantly" wont work on Kimimaru because everything he trows at you (from what we have seen till now) are from his bloodline and SHARINGAN CANNOT COPY BLOODLINE ATTACKS. If you remember correctly that's why Kakashi paniced a bit when he heard Haku was using a bloodline attack, because that meant that a sharingan user cannot use his first set of fear/offense attack against him, like he did to Zabuza. If you look at it, it wasn't really a genjutsu anyway it was just a combination of two of sharingan's ability, ability of prediction (3 tome) + ability to copy the opponants jutsu (2 tome), but combined to gather you can make any fool believe it's a genjutsu :laugh .

So he basically has to put Kimimaru is a genjutsu other then that, kinda like the genjutsu Itachi pulled on Naruto but this time Sasuke has to make sure that he lands a massive blow with that genjutsu because we know that Kimimaru is kind of a massocist (that' the correct name right, you know the guy who likes pain) so he might break out of it with pain on himself.

That being said, Orochimaru isn't that much of a genjutsu expert the only genjutsu he used till now and one that he is very good at it is his "Shikumi no Jutsu - Death Viewing Technique (Killing Intent)". But the problem is, well Kimimaru might have been trained against it, considering he was Orochimaru's favorite servent. Also to defeat Kimi Sasuke has to become faster then Lee because Kimi is .5 more faster then Lee (that's wtihout weights and full power, no gates though) and is as unpredicatable as suiken Lee and NarutoK2(he's bone come out of his body without his consent).

A lot of people forget that Kimimaru was the over all and favorite carrier of Orochimaru and if he hadn't caught the illness Orochimaru would have neglected Sasuke well atleast for a minimum of 3 years. It was the perfect body for him. So Sasuke only became his favorite carrier after Kimimaru caught teh diseases (probably cuz of him, michel jackson child molestor.. :shifty ). Don't forget Kimimaru was a vital part of Orochimaru's plan for the distruction of Konoha. So he isn't just your pansy 15 year old teen, this guy was strong enough to even give Kakashi a run for his money.

So to defeat Kimimaru Sasuke must:
- Gain more Speed.
- Have powerful Katon jutsus that will seriously damage Kimi's bone from long range.
- Possibly a KB Chidori (so the real one dosn't get killed while hitting Kimimaru).
- Able to have countermeasures for Sawarabi no Mai.
- Have genjutsus that can mentally damage Kimi at a fast rate (the initial blow that is).

Hey these are not impossible to do for Sasuke but that's how much he has to improve if he want's to take down this guy, because he's bloodline won't help him much a part maybe avoiding a few blows.

[Sublime]

Hard to say, dunno how strong Sasuke is but he's probably around healthy kimmimaro level after the timeskip.

Btw LotU it'd help if you backed up your comments w/ some proof instead of posting random B.S. that never happened.

[Takagou]

my pyops to kimimaro...but Gaara and sasuke are about even 2.5 years ago, and gaara kicked ass...and now sasuke has had orochimaru juice for 2.5 years...yea definetly sasuke-sama

[BattousaiMS]

my pyops to kimimaro...but Gaara and sasuke are about even 2.5 years ago, and gaara kicked ass...and now sasuke has had orochimaru juice for 2.5 years...yea definetly sasuke-sama
Gaara and Sasuke even at pretimeskip????

I detect massive fanboyism here... Gaara that fought Kimimaru would cursh teh Pre-time skip Sasuke. Have you even seen his attacks? desert avalanch alone = death of Sasuke and possibly death of Naruto unless Kyubi decideds to fire up his engine while Naruto is caught in it (heck death any of the young ones we seen in battle during the rescue).

[Takagou]

i view it this way...Sasuke<Naruto<Gaara

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Sasuke pretimeskip was nowhere near Gaara's level.
Gaara was a lot better than Lee.
Just out of the hospital Lee without using any gates was better than Kyuubi Naruto.
Kyuubi Naruto was just below Sasuke's level.

Pretimeskip, the order went:
Gaara>Neji>Lee>Sasuke>Naruto

[jemakai]

Katon won't stall him, Gaara's sand didn't stall him so neither will fire which is lighter then sand but it will burn his skin but the thing is from what we seen burning his skin or even massive disfiguration dosn't flinch him much (and that is 1 foot in grave) so basically Sasuke has to hit him with something that will damage his bones not only his skin.

If Gaara's sand didn't stall him Kimi would have gotten into close range and gotten pass Gaara's sand shield with his speed. When Kyuubi 2 Naruto charged Sasuke he performed a katon and it forced Kyuubi 2 Naruto stop in his tracks and block the hit with chakra, thats stalled him because it slowed down his progress. Please don't tell me you think regular Kimi could just run through a katon when it even stoped Kyuubi 2 Naruto's in his tracks.


That's just what I said, Sasuke does have an effective move against Kimimaru already but the problem is he doesn't have the life insurence, while Naruto has the life insurence but not the move. So if they can both (let's say by miracle of nature) merge togather then they can already defeat kimimaru. It's like it takes two of them combined to take him down alone each of them will fail in their own way.

Sasuke doesn't need any life insurance, you have yet to answer my questions.

So tell me, do you really believe kimi's 4.5 speed is greater then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto? Do you really believe that if a slower then normal drunk Lee wasn't instantly killed at close range by kimi that a faster Sasuke who can see all Kimi's attacks before they happen will be killed?

The manga doesn't back you up, if a slower then normal drunk Lee who can't predict was only hit on his hand and cheek then a faster 3 tomoe sharingan Sasuke would simply not be hit by the Dance of the Climantis.


If you look at it, it wasn't really a genjutsu anyway it was just a combination of two of sharingan's ability, ability of prediction (3 tome) + ability to copy the opponants jutsu (2 tome), but combined to gather you can make any fool believe it's a genjutsu :laugh.

Actually it was stated that kakashi used genjutsu to trick Zabuza into performing the jutsu he wanted and make him panic. That was the entire point of Zabuza using his mist, he didn't want to look into Kakashi's sharingan and get hit by another genjutsu. After 2.5 years Sasuke should have mastered his 3 tomoe sharingan and the genjutsu's that come with it.


So he basically has to put Kimimaru is a genjutsu other then that, kinda like the genjutsu Itachi pulled on Naruto but this time Sasuke has to make sure that he lands a massive blow with that genjutsu because we know that Kimimaru is kind of a massocist (that' the correct name right, you know the guy who likes pain) so he might break out of it with pain on himself.

Notice the people who could hurt themselves in the middle of a genjutsu had high genjutsu's stats to begin with(Kurenai and Shikamaru). Genjutsu is not Kimi's strong suit and he definetly won't be able to break out a bloodline genjutsu easliy or at all. Genjutsu is just not kimi's strong point, thus Sasuke can take advantage of it.


That being said, Orochimaru isn't that much of a genjutsu expert the only genjutsu he used till now and one that he is very good at it is his "Shikumi no Jutsu - Death Viewing Technique (Killing Intent)". But the problem is, well Kimimaru might have been trained against it, considering he was Orochimaru's favorite servent. Also to defeat Kimi Sasuke has to become faster then Lee because Kimi is .5 more faster then Lee (that's wtihout weights and full power, no gates though) and is as unpredicatable as suiken Lee and NarutoK2(he's bone come out of his body without his consent).

Your though process is just wrong. Oro is a jutsu freak, jutsu's are genjutsu, taijutsu, and ninjutsu. He likes them all, the death stare was not genjutsu anyway. He would teach Sasuke a bit of everything, because it only takes one look at the jutsu being performed to copy it.
Your statement doesn't pan out, Sasuke was dodging both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto's attacks both of who were much faster then him. In order to hit Sasuke Kimi would have to be faster then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto, which he is not. Kimi's bones come out of his body at his will, hell anyone with a brain(drunk Lee wasn't thinking) could just wait for him to say the words"Dance of the Climantis!" and know that he is about to send bones out his body and thats even without sharingan.

[Takagou]

Sasuke pretimeskip was nowhere near Gaara's level.
Gaara was a lot better than Lee.
Just out of the hospital Lee without using any gates was better than Kyuubi Naruto.
Kyuubi Naruto was just below Sasuke's level.

Pretimeskip, the order went:
Gaara>Neji>Lee>Sasuke>Naruto

doesnt work. Naruto beat neji AND gaara. But sasuke beat naruto. cursed seal 2 kicks more ass than people give credit for x.x

[KuwabaraTheMan]

doesnt work. Naruto beat neji AND gaara. But sasuke beat naruto. cursed seal 2 kicks more ass than people give credit for x.x

Naruto beat Neji due to Neji being arrogant because he didn't know about the Kyuubi. If Neji hadn't gotten arrogant and started going on about the Hyuuga clan, Naruto would have lost.

Naruto and Gaara only tied, and that was after Gaara had already fought Sasuke and had the Chidori(an A rank jutsu) used on him twice.

Plus, Gaara at the end of Part One had progressed by a much greater degree from his Chuunin Exam level than anyone else had.
In terms of strength: Gaara>Neji>Lee>Sasuke>Naruto

[BattousaiMS]

If Gaara's sand didn't stall him Kimi would have gotten into close range and gotten pass Gaara's sand shield with his speed. When Kyuubi 2 Naruto charged Sasuke he performed a katon and it forced Kyuubi 2 Naruto stop in his tracks and block the hit with chakra, thats stalled him because it slowed down his progress. Please don't tell me you think regular Kimi could just run through a katon when it even stoped Kyuubi 2 Naruto's in his tracks.



Sasuke doesn't need any life insurance, you have yet to answer my questions.

So tell me, do you really believe kimi's 4.5 speed is greater then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto? Do you really believe that if a slower then normal drunk Lee wasn't instantly killed at close range by kimi that a faster Sasuke who can see all Kimi's attacks before they happen will be killed?

The manga doesn't back you up, if a slower then normal drunk Lee who can't predict was only hit on his hand and cheek then a faster 3 tomoe sharingan Sasuke would simply not be hit by the Dance of the Climantis.



Actually it was stated that kakashi used genjutsu to trick Zabuza into performing the jutsu he wanted and make him panic. That was the entire point of Zabuza using his mist, he didn't want to look into Kakashi's sharingan and get hit by another genjutsu. After 2.5 years Sasuke should have mastered his 3 tomoe sharingan and the genjutsu's that come with it.



Notice the people who could hurt themselves in the middle of a genjutsu had high genjutsu's stats to begin with(Kurenai and Shikamaru). Genjutsu is not Kimi's strong suit and he definetly won't be able to break out a bloodline genjutsu easliy or at all. Genjutsu is just not kimi's strong point, thus Sasuke can take advantage of it.



Your though process is just wrong. Oro is a jutsu freak, jutsu's are genjutsu, taijutsu, and ninjutsu. He likes them all, the death stare was not genjutsu anyway. He would teach Sasuke a bit of everything, because it only takes one look at the jutsu being performed to copy it.
Your statement doesn't pan out, Sasuke was dodging both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto's attacks both of who were much faster then him. In order to hit Sasuke Kimi would have to be faster then both Kyuubi Naruto and Kyuubi 2 Naruto, which he is not. Kimi's bones come out of his body at his will, hell anyone with a brain(drunk Lee wasn't thinking) could just wait for him to say the words"Dance of the Climantis!" and know that he is about to send bones out his body and thats even without sharingan.

My dear jenmakai you have the fanboy syndrome now either that or that or you have never been in actual combat or atleast not very imaginative allow me to help you clear up your confusion:

In a fight, when your opponent stops, it dosn't mean you stoped him unless you stopped him totally. In the case of Kimi and Gaara, Gaara did slowed down Kimi a bit, but he certainly didn't stop him because Kimi was right about on his face before they both stoped and decided to test out who has the strongest spear or shield (very uncommon in real life combat and certainly in shinobi combat these are kids here and kishimoto did need to show off each other a bit). The only time Gaara technically stoped Kimi dead on track was when he caught him in sabaku kyuu (a traping jutsu) and gokusamaisou (his quicksand burial attack). Those were the only time were Kimimarou was trapped and could not get out and had to take death defiying punishment. In Naruto Sasuke fight, Sasuke's katon goukakyuu did not stop Narutok2, it's Narutok2 who stoped so he can show Sasuke one of his own long range attacks (the infamous Kyuubi long range chikara hand projection[yeah they still have no names for Kyuubi attacks yet]). Where NarutoK2 was like "hey look I am annoyed with your puny fire attack that dosn't due real damage here how a real long range attack should work [in a sarcsm way]). So yes, that wouldn't have helped Kimi's case much either since most katon jutsus are not traping jutsus (would be nice if there was one but we havn't seen one) nor would they stop the character dead on his track unless he really intends to stop and show off himself.

Sasuke does need life insurence, you see the reason why Lee needed the gates to beat Neji wasn't because Neji was faster then him (at that time) it was because like sharingan, byakugan increases your dodging drastically so if your actual speed was like 3 the ability would keep your speed at 3 but increase your dodging to 4. On the same term, Kimimaru is at 4.5, but he dosn't need to go 4.5 against Lee (remember that's their max stable speed there they wont force themself to run at it unless they are forced too) and since Lee was injured Kimi didn't need to go at full speed (also the animation on him were done poorly and i mean very poorly). The reason why durken Lee survived was because he was still unpredictable and because he wasn't generating enough push force to actually get the same rate of damage. In physics, if you push something at a certain speed, then you will recieve back the same rate of energy pushback (velocity). Kimi's technique was like a circular saw, Lee didn't use enough speed to acutally get hit back at a faster rate. In the case of Sasuke it would be the same, but in comes his attack chidori. What do we know of it? it's almost entirely liniare and at Sasuke's top speed (to make some real damage). He's just charging at that saw like a bullet, so he is also gonna be poked back at that same bullet speed. End result, he get more number of hits and assuming he goes all out in speed, he won't have extra speed to actually back away at a faster rate then he just plunged himself.

The manga doesn't state how many times Lee actually got hit and the anime is like i said poor in content. Not to mention Lee > Sasuke in endurance so the degree of damage level would also been much diffrent. Please don't give the Sasuke survived NarutoK2's chikara hand slam on a hill as an excuse, because the chikara hand wasn't slaming him at great velocity to begin with.


I didn't it wasn't a genjutsu, I said it's a genjutsu made out of two sharingan abilities. Basically, anything that you can make your opponents mind think is real is genjutsu, so it is indeed a genjutsu, but one that won't work on Kimi, because the side effects (which is a ninjutsu ie copying jutsu to make him believe that you can copy him instantly) wont work on Kimi because he's techniques are Kaguya bloodline techniques. So Sasuke needs to come up with other genjutsus.

Kimi's genjutsu is at 3, which average for jounins. So he would need a pretty good genjutsu (B rank atleast) to get him down with it. If Sasuke learns one that can do the damage and be high enough so that Kimi can't cancel it all the merrier for him. But note that genjutsu has never been Sasuke's strong point. He's a Nin/Tai fighter not a Gen/Nin type like his brother [fighting style].

Orochimaru may be a jutsu freak, but that dosn't mean he knows all the jutsus possible. He certainly dosn't look like to be your genjutsu type of fighter. If he has some good ones for Sasuke, again all the merrier. But I hope you understand that Sasuke would need a rank B + one that could damage him quickly to get trough Kimi.

It dosn't pan out, because you are looking at it from the opposite direction. Your thinking of Kimi attacking Sasuke, while I am talking about Kimi countering Sasuke. Usually the impatient one is the one who is usually the attacker on that prospective the impatient one out of the two would be Sasuke. Sure Kimi may have problem hiting Sasuke while he attacks but the thing is, unlike he's case, Sasuke is the one who narutrally has to get close to Kimi to land a deathblow because Kimi's defense > Sasuke's. So sure, Kimi might attack and miss him, but when Sasuke is the one attacking (which he usually is, since he isn't your defensive type of a guy), Kimi has the advantage. Basically the closer Sasuke gets to Kimimaru the more advantagous Kimi's situtation gets.

So like i said, it isn't impossible for Sasuke to defeat Kimimaru after 2.5 years of training. It's just that he must posses a certain types of abilities to counter Kimi's advantages. It's the same situation for all other characters. They can probably defeat Kimimaru after 2.5 years (Gaara, Naruto, Neji), but they have to also fight a diffrent set of tactics and skill to counter their disadvantages against Kimimaru to beat him.

Note to the 2 Hinata's who are off topic: A) this isn't DBZ so stop comparing like that. B) Your both wrong, so stop arguing.

[Deathinstinct]

In terms of strength: Gaara>Neji>Lee>Sasuke>Naruto Too bad such generalizations can't be made. Example is Slug, Snake, and Frog.
The Naruto Sasuke fight could have gone either way.
What is Lee > Naruto/Sasuke based on? Lee didn't progress, while Naruto and Sasuke had significant increases in ability.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Too bad such generalizations can't be made. Example is Slug, Snake, and Frog.
The Naruto Sasuke fight could have gone either way.
What is Lee > Naruto/Sasuke based on? Lee didn't progress, while Naruto and Sasuke had significant increases in ability.

Lee was doing pretty well against Kimimaro, despite being just out of the hospital. If Lee just out of the hospital can fare better against Kimimaro than Naruto did(and that in itself isn't a Slug, Snake, Frog type deal, because Lee and Naruto both focus on close range combat), I'd say he's still a level above Naruto and Sasuke. Just immagine how healthy Lee with 5 Gates would fair against Naruto, it wouldn't be pretty for Naruto, that's for sure.

[Shishou]

it's never been stated that Oro actually fought Itachi, but Oro did want Itachi's body to be his container. just thought that u might wanna know Shishou. rofl

I don't recall Orochimaru saying he wanted Itachi's body either. Care to give me the reference?

[Moritsune]

sure thing my friend. check ep 81 about 7 minutes and 38 seconds in. i don't have a copy of the manga handy so someone else may be able to help u with that one. rofl

[Shishou]

sure thing my friend. check ep 81 about 7 minutes and 38 seconds in. i don't have a copy of the manga handy so someone else may be able to help u with that one. rofl

I don't have a copy of old episodes at hand.

And I only go by whats in the manga. Plenty of manga at narutoforums.com for free, of course :X

[Moritsune]

hmm the manga words it differently. i wonder if it's a mistranslation? well either way, check chap. 140, page 5.

*edit* i really dunno which to beleive here. the manga was done by Inane, but the anime was done by ANBU and AONE. this is tough. rofl

[Invisus]

Naruto beat Neji due to Neji being arrogant because he didn't know about the Kyuubi. If Neji hadn't gotten arrogant and started going on about the Hyuuga clan, Naruto would have lost.

Naruto and Gaara only tied, and that was after Gaara had already fought Sasuke and had the Chidori(an A rank jutsu) used on him twice.

Plus, Gaara at the end of Part One had progressed by a much greater degree from his Chuunin Exam level than anyone else had.
In terms of strength: Gaara>Neji>Lee>Sasuke>Naruto

None of those fights ever included Kyubi Naruto. In the Neji vs Naruto fight, Neji took heavy damage from colliding with Naruto who was barely using much Kyubi chakra, and Gaara only met up with the same Naruto Neji did. Though he did partially use Kyubi energy to summon Gamabunta.

The Kyubi Naruto that Sasuke fought would have undoubtedly ripped a new one in Gaara and Neji.

The ending was more like CSL 2 Kimi > CSL2 Sasuke > Kyubi Naruto 2 > Kimi > Gaara > Sasuke > Naruto > Neji > Lee.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The ending was more like CSL 2 Kimi > CSL2 Sasuke > Kyubi Naruto 2 > Kimi > Gaara > Sasuke > Naruto > Neji > Lee.
Sound 4 were stronger than Sasuke without using CS. So there CS2 levels would also being stronger than CS2 Sasuke. The only reason they got beat was because they had already used up a lot of energy fighting Genma and Raidou, so they were exhausted going into their battles with the gennin.

Naruto and Sasuke combined were barely strong enough to beat a mentally unstable Gaara. You think Gaara with all the new abilities he showed in his fight with Kimimaro couldn't beat them both rather effortlessly?

Additionally, Gaara beats or ties Naruto in every category except strength, and beats or ties Sasuke in every category except for Taijutsu, speed, and strength. He's clearly on a whole different level.

Gaara has a 26.5, and Neji has a 25. Conversely, Sasuke has a 22.5, and Naruto has an 18.5, and you think Naruto and Sasuke's base forms are better than Neji?

Fat chance on that happening.

Not to mention, as I brought up earlier, just out of the hospital Lee did better against Kimimaro then Kyuubi Naruto did(and Kimimaro eats Taijutsu users for lunch). Healthy, 5 gate Lee would beat Kyuubi 2 Naruto, hands down.

Kimimaro is the strongest, then Gaara, then Sound 4, then Neji, then Sand Siblings, then Lee, then Sasuke, then Naruto.

[Invisus]

Sound 4 were stronger than Sasuke without using CS.

Sasuke fought the strongest of the Sound Four on his own, and even then it was simply a brief exchange against a fully rested memeber. It also wasn't a fight to the death so there is no telling how that fight would have dragged out if it had lasted longer.

There is also the fact that the Sasuke at the end of Part 1 also has the 3-Tomoe Sharingan which greatly increased his fighting ability.

So there CS2 levels would also being stronger than CS2
Sasuke.

Sasuke and Kimimaro's Cursed Seal are different then that of the Sound Four, and emphasis is put on them which implies that the CSL2 forms of Kimimaro and Sasuke are likely stronger then that of the Sound Four.


The only reason they got beat was because they had already used up a lot of energy fighting Genma and Raidou, so they were exhausted going into their battles with the gennin.

While it's true that Neji and them only beat them because they were exhausted, I highly doubt any of the sound four could have taken on the Kyubi Naruto that Sasuke fought and soundly beat.


Naruto and Sasuke combined were barely strong enough to beat a mentally unstable Gaara.

Actually, Sasuke kicked Gaara's ass and could have killed him if he had not been rescued by his Temari and Kankuro. The Gaara that Naruto and Sasuke fought was actually Shukaku Gaara which is a stronger and faster incarnation, which takes time to summon and would like get killed by a Chidori.



You think Gaara with all the new abilities he showed in his fight with Kimimaro couldn't beat them both rather effortlessly?

Nope, I think he'd get soundly beaten by Kyubi Naruto 2, and CSL2 Sasuke.


Additionally, Gaara beats or ties Naruto in every category except strength, and beats or ties Sasuke in every category except for Taijutsu, speed, and strength. He's clearly on a whole different level.

I am sure the stats would matter if they actually made sense, sadly that's not the case. Not since it matters since Naruto has beaten characters with higher stats then himself so they really don't show the whole picture.


Gaara has a 26.5, and Neji has a 25. Conversely, Sasuke has a 22.5, and Naruto has an 18.5, and you think Naruto and Sasuke's base forms are better than Neji?

I think Naruto's Stamina, and Sasuke's 3-Tomoe Sharingan are enough to beat Neji. Anyway, that stats are nonsensical on many occasions, one of them being the fact that Kiba is listed as being 3.5 in speed during the Chuunin Exams which is supposedly 'near-Lee speed' yet no one seemed to think Kiba was the fast during the Naruto vs Kiba fight.

Yet when people saw Sasuke fight with his 3.0 speed rating which is lower then Kiba's they were in awe. Funny how that works.

So if 3.0 Sasuke is faster then 3.5 Kiba- then sure I can believe that 18.5 Naruto can beat 25 Neji.


Not to mention, as I brought up earlier, just out of the hospital Lee did better against Kimimaro then Kyuubi Naruto did(and Kimimaro eats Taijutsu users for lunch). Healthy, 5 gate Lee would beat Kyuubi 2 Naruto, hands down.

And Non-Kyubi Naruto beat the bloody hell out of Shukaku Gaara who was stronger then Normal Gaara. And Lee didn't actually do much better other then not getting himself killed, until he did the Suiken thing. Though it's understandble that it would go that way since Lee is a taijutsu expert like Kimimaro.

Not to mention that the Kyubi Naruto that Kimimaro fought was nothing compared to the one that Sasuke fought, and that would would chew 5 Gate Lee up and spit him out for breakfast.


Kimimaro is the strongest, then Gaara, then Sound 4, then Neji, then Sand Siblings, then Lee, then Sasuke, then Naruto.

Nah after Kimimaro and Gaara's base, Sasuke and Naruto are the strongest.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Sasuke fought the strongest of the Sound Four on his own, and even then it was simply a brief exchange against a fully rested memeber. It also wasn't a fight to the death so there is no telling how that fight would have dragged out if it had lasted longer.
Yes, but Sasuke was pissed off and full of rage while the Sound 4 weren't really trying at all.

There is also the fact that the Sasuke at the end of Part 1 also has the 3-Tomoe Sharingan which greatly increased his fighting ability.

It does, but not to the point where he can take on opponents who would have slapped him silly before, it just gives that little extra boost he needs in certain situations.



Sasuke and Kimimaro's Cursed Seal are different then that of the Sound Four, and emphasis is put on them which implies that the CSL2 forms of Kimimaro and Sasuke are likely stronger then that of the Sound Four.

Uh, no, it was never stated that Sasuke and Kimimaro's CS were different from the Sound Four. It was stated that Sasuke and Kimimaro's Cursed Seals were different from each other(Heaven vs. Earth), but it wasn't said that they were different from the Sound Four. Besides, in each case the CS seems to have the same effect. Change in physical appearance and large increase in chakra total.



While it's true that Neji and them only beat them because they were exhausted, I highly doubt any of the sound four could have taken on the Kyubi Naruto that Sasuke fought and soundly beat.

Sasuke didn't really soundly beat Kyuubi 2 Naruto, he could barely stand afterwords. And I'm sure tha the Sound 4 could have beaten him. You think Naruto would have any answer to Tayuya's genjutsu? What about Kidoumaru's long ranged attacks? How would Naruto stop Ukon's special ability?



Actually, Sasuke kicked Gaara's ass and could have killed him if he had not been rescued by his Temari and Kankuro. The Gaara that Naruto and Sasuke fought was actually Shukaku Gaara which is a stronger and faster incarnation, which takes time to summon and would like get killed by a Chidori.

That's only because Gaara did something stupid in his fight with Sasuke, because he was insane at the time. Sane Gaara from Rescue arc was on a whole different level from Naruto and Sasuke. How do you expect them to fend of a Desert Avalanche?




Nope, I think he'd get soundly beaten by Kyubi Naruto 2, and CSL2 Sasuke.

With what ability? How would they break through Gaara's new ultimate defense? How would they survive getting pulled 100 feet under ground and being crushed?


I am sure the stats would matter if they actually made sense, sadly that's not the case. Not since it matters since Naruto has beaten characters with higher stats then himself so they really don't show the whole picture.

The only character Naruto beat with higher stats then him as far as I'm aware of is Neji, and that was mainly due to Neji getting arrogant because he thought he had won, and Naruto taking him by surprise.



I think Naruto's Stamina, and Sasuke's 3-Tomoe Sharingan are enough to beat Neji. Anyway, that stats are nonsensical on many occasions, one of them being the fact that Kiba is listed as being 3.5 in speed during the Chuunin Exams which is supposedly 'near-Lee speed' yet no one seemed to think Kiba was the fast during the Naruto vs Kiba fight.

Yet when people saw Sasuke fight with his 3.0 speed rating which is lower then Kiba's they were in awe. Funny how that works.

So if 3.0 Sasuke is faster then 3.5 Kiba- then sure I can believe that 18.5 Naruto can beat 25 Neji.

Maybe because the Inuzuka clan was well known, so Kiba was expected to be fast. On the other hand, the people in Naruto's generation, while obviously knowing of the famous Uchiha clan, had no clue of their abilities aside from the Sharingan, since they were young when the massacre occured.

Naruto's stamina is useless if his tenketsu get closed. The only reason that failed the first time was Neji didn't know of Naruto somehow having a secondary source of chakra. In a rematch, he would know about the Kyuubi chakra, so he could simply close all of Naruto's tenketsu a second time.

Also, the Byakugan is the finest bloodline limit in Konoha according to Kishimoto himself, so I'm not sure what the 3 Tomoe Sharingan is going to be doing here, when Neji has a better doujutsu, and a stronger fighting style, too.



And Non-Kyubi Naruto beat the bloody hell out of Shukaku Gaara who was stronger then Normal Gaara. And Lee didn't actually do much better other then not getting himself killed, until he did the Suiken thing. Though it's understandble that it would go that way since Lee is a taijutsu expert like Kimimaro.

Gaara was going insane at the time, he didn't have his head in the game.

Lee actually landed a hit on Kimimaro, despite being much weaker than his normal self.

Not to mention that the Kyubi Naruto that Kimimaro fought was nothing compared to the one that Sasuke fought, and that would would chew 5 Gate Lee up and spit him out for breakfast.

Yes, Kyuubi 2 Naruto is a lot stronger than Kyuubi Naruto, but Healthy 5 Gate Lee is a lot stronger than just out of the hospital, shell of his former self Lee that fared better than Kyuubi Naruto against Kimimaro.(And both Lee and Naruto are close combat fighters, so it isn't like Lee had a more favorable matchup)



Nah after Kimimaro and Gaara's base, Sasuke and Naruto are the strongest.
No, Neji and Lee surpass them.

[BattousaiMS]

Do I need to remind people that the topic here is Sasuke vs. Kimimaro here and not who is better then who? So please keep your dumb fanboyism analogies and stay on the damn topics.

[Takagou]

we seem to be argueing over sasuke's abilities against kimi 2.5 years ago, in which yes kimi was probably stronger. But now like i said earlier, sasuke has been training under a master equivilant to Jiraiya or tsunade. He also has a mutation device handy known as csl2. he would definetly kick pre time skip kimi ass.

[MartialHorror]

well, we don't know what else Sasuke has..................

[jemakai]

My dear jenmakai you have the fanboy syndrome now either that or that or you have never been in actual combat or atleast not very imaginative allow me to help you clear up your confusion:

In a fight, when your opponent stops, it dosn't mean you stoped him unless you stopped him totally. In the case of Kimi and Gaara, Gaara did slowed down Kimi a bit, but he certainly didn't stop him because Kimi was right about on his face before they both stoped and decided to test out who has the strongest spear or shield (very uncommon in real life combat and certainly in shinobi combat these are kids here and kishimoto did need to show off each other a bit). The only time Gaara technically stoped Kimi dead on track was when he caught him in sabaku kyuu (a traping jutsu) and gokusamaisou (his quicksand burial attack). Those were the only time were Kimimarou was trapped and could not get out and had to take death defiying punishment. In Naruto Sasuke fight, Sasuke's katon goukakyuu did not stop Narutok2, it's Narutok2 who stoped so he can show Sasuke one of his own long range attacks (the infamous Kyuubi long range chikara hand projection[yeah they still have no names for Kyuubi attacks yet]). Where NarutoK2 was like "hey look I am annoyed with your puny fire attack that dosn't due real damage here how a real long range attack should work [in a sarcsm way]). So yes, that wouldn't have helped Kimi's case much either since most katon jutsus are not traping jutsus (would be nice if there was one but we havn't seen one) nor would they stop the character dead on his track unless he really intends to stop and show off himself.

This really made me laugh. Where should I begin? First of all, never been in actual combat? Tell me what shinobi battles you have been in? Tell me how many times some one has thrown a huge fire ball at you? Your making yourself look stupid, I am not sure if that is intentional or just natural for you. There is no sort of combat the resembles these fights in reality, people can't keep others away by controling sand or throwing fire out their mouths.


Gaara did slowed down Kimi a bit.

THATS WHAT STALLING MEANS

stall
To halt the motion or progress of; bring to a standstill.
Answer this question, could kimi continue to advance toward Gaara unhindered?
If kimi was not stalled then nothing would have stoped him from running right up to Gaara and attempting close range combat. He could not do this because Gaara's sand was very close to Gaara, thats why Kimi used the finger bullets to see the reaction of Gaara's sand.
Before Kimi went curse seal 2 he was NOT in Gaara's face, and Gaara did not make a choice to get in a contest of spear and shield with kimi. I don't know where you got that from.

In Naruto Sasuke fight, Sasuke's katon goukakyuu did not stop Narutok2, it's Narutok2 who stoped so he can show Sasuke one of his own long range attacks

Wow.....I shouldn't even be wasting time on you because you have already made up your mind and will stick to this fantasy of what happened but I will try anyway....go back and actually look at the attack before commenting on it, Sasuke see's Kyuubi 2 Naruto coming and uses katon, Kyuubi naruto in seemingly engulfed in flames but then Sasuke see's he stoped and put up a chakra shield to block the attack. An action of Sasuke's(his katon) caused Kyuubi 2 Naruto to stop his forward progress and create a chakra shield to avoid the damage(unless you think Naruto is just and idiot that throws up shields when he doesn't need to), this means Sasuke stalled Naruto's foward motion.
Thats all I am saying on that matter, if you still don't see it then I feel sorry for you.


Sasuke does need life insurence, you see the reason why Lee needed the gates to beat Neji wasn't because Neji was faster then him (at that time) it was because like sharingan, byakugan increases your dodging drastically so if your actual speed was like 3 the ability would keep your speed at 3 but increase your dodging to 4. On the same term, Kimimaru is at 4.5, but he dosn't need to go 4.5 against Lee (remember that's their max stable speed there they wont force themself to run at it unless they are forced too) and since Lee was injured Kimi didn't need to go at full speed (also the animation on him were done poorly and i mean very poorly). The reason why durken Lee survived was because he was still unpredictable and because he wasn't generating enough push force to actually get the same rate of damage. In physics, if you push something at a certain speed, then you will recieve back the same rate of energy pushback (velocity). Kimi's technique was like a circular saw, Lee didn't use enough speed to acutally get hit back at a faster rate. In the case of Sasuke it would be the same, but in comes his attack chidori. What do we know of it? it's almost entirely liniare and at Sasuke's top speed (to make some real damage). He's just charging at that saw like a bullet, so he is also gonna be poked back at that same bullet speed. End result, he get more number of hits and assuming he goes all out in speed, he won't have extra speed to actually back away at a faster rate then he just plunged himself.



In physics, if you push something at a certain speed, then you will recieve back the same rate of energy pushback (velocity).

I guess this was an attempt to be smart....Let me help you out by correcting you. In the real world(which the laws of physics apply), once and object collides with another object the force(or amount of Newtons) that the first object experiences is the normal force(think of it like the amount of force the objects surface gives back) of the second object. Energy(measured in joules) is measured in terms of mass times acceleration times distance(kg*m*m/s^2) and Momentum is velocity times mass(kg*m/s).
The energy of the object is not the same as its velocity which isn't the same as its momentum, get the terminology right before you use the terms.
The rest of this part of your post is just nonsense and I won't waste the time to explain all your points out.

The entire point of using sharingan with chidori is to see the counter, I guess you missed that point. Sasuke will see where Kimi's bones will come out of his skin far before it actually happens, hell it doesn't matter were Sasuke aims because chidori will melt through any bones kimi places in its way. Sasuke doesn't have to wory about kimi's counter, thats what sharingan is for. Kimi is the one that has to avoid geting hit with an attack that is said to cut through anything. If he just stands there and try's to do dance of the climantis, chidori will cut through any bones in its way straight to kimi's heart.

[jemakai]

The manga doesn't state how many times Lee actually got hit and the anime is like i said poor in content. Not to mention Lee > Sasuke in endurance so the degree of damage level would also been much diffrent. Please don't give the Sasuke survived NarutoK2's chikara hand slam on a hill as an excuse, because the chikara hand wasn't slaming him at great velocity to begin with.

We know how many times Lee got hit, he was hit once on the cheek and once on his hand(neither of witch will cause some one to die). Thats why he was bleeding from those area's. Again, don't use the terminology unless you actually know what your saying. We also don't know how much force Sasuke's body experienced when he hit the wall.


I didn't it wasn't a genjutsu, I said it's a genjutsu made out of two sharingan abilities. Basically, anything that you can make your opponents mind think is real is genjutsu, so it is indeed a genjutsu, but one that won't work on Kimi, because the side effects (which is a ninjutsu ie copying jutsu to make him believe that you can copy him instantly) wont work on Kimi because he's techniques are Kaguya bloodline techniques. So Sasuke needs to come up with other genjutsus.

Lets see what you said:

If you look at it, it wasn't really a genjutsu anyway it was just a combination of two of sharingan's ability, ability of prediction (3 tome) + ability to copy the opponants jutsu (2 tome), but combined to gather you can make any fool believe it's a genjutsu.

So basically you don't even know what you said, but I will let this go and move on. The genjutsu Kakashi used on Zabuza was just one of the type of genjutsu sharingan has. If sharingan only had a ninjutsu coping genjutsu then people like Gai(who have little to no ninjutsu) would not need to worry about looking into Kakashi's eye's to fight him. Gai knows he must avoid Kakashi's sharingan vision period. The final nail in the coffin for your "argument" is that Itachi performed a sharingan genjutsu against kakashi in his recent fight.


Kimi's genjutsu is at 3, which average for jounins. So he would need a pretty good genjutsu (B rank atleast) to get him down with it. If Sasuke learns one that can do the damage and be high enough so that Kimi can't cancel it all the merrier for him. But note that genjutsu has never been Sasuke's strong point. He's a Nin/Tai fighter not a Gen/Nin type like his brother [fighting style].

Actually the average for jounins is around 3.5 or higher. Gai and Kimi have lowest genjutsu stats for jounins with their 3's. Either way as I have proven Sharingan itself has nasty genjutsu's that come with it, so it doesn't matter what type of fighter Sasuke is.

Orochimaru may be a jutsu freak, but that dosn't mean he knows all the jutsus possible. He certainly dosn't look like to be your genjutsu type of fighter. If he has some good ones for Sasuke, again all the merrier. But I hope you understand that Sasuke would need a rank B + one that could damage him quickly to get trough Kimi.

Were are you pulling these ranks from? Were is it said a 3 in genjutsu can only be countered with a B rank? It doesn't matter, the sharingan itself comes with genjutsu's which I doubt Kimi can stand up to without alot of effort.


It dosn't pan out, because you are looking at it from the opposite direction. Your thinking of Kimi attacking Sasuke, while I am talking about Kimi countering Sasuke. Usually the impatient one is the one who is usually the attacker on that prospective the impatient one out of the two would be Sasuke. Sure Kimi may have problem hiting Sasuke while he attacks but the thing is, unlike he's case, Sasuke is the one who narutrally has to get close to Kimi to land a deathblow because Kimi's defense > Sasuke's. So sure, Kimi might attack and miss him, but when Sasuke is the one attacking (which he usually is, since he isn't your defensive type of a guy), Kimi has the advantage. Basically the closer Sasuke gets to Kimimaru the more advantagous Kimi's situtation gets.

Countering a sharingan user is the worst strategy ever(the sharingan is made so a person see's all counters remember?). Kimi's best bet is to keep a constant attack on Sasuke so his has to dodge and waste stamina, rather then allowing him level kimi with attacks from long or ready a chidori.

[Jonas]

Sasuke has this. Look, its got to my mind that Kimimaro had the potential when he met Orochimaru in the filler. At the age of 17 he had 30+ in stats. It's because of Orochimaru. So... all the time that Kimimaro trained under Orochimaru, Sasuke has worked twice as hard (IMO) and he had around 24 in stats if i could remember right. So adding 1 in every category; Seal: +1, Speed +1, Stamina +1, Ninjutsu +1 (even more i think), IQ +1, Genjutsu +1, Force +1 and finally Taijutsu +1 (even more i think)
+8 is about 32 isnt it? Add CS into that..

[BattousaiMS]

we seem to be argueing over sasuke's abilities against kimi 2.5 years ago, in which yes kimi was probably stronger. But now like i said earlier, sasuke has been training under a master equivilant to Jiraiya or tsunade. He also has a mutation device handy known as csl2. he would definetly kick pre time skip kimi ass.
Kimi is stronger... he is a full fledged jounin. I think people tend to get jounins wrongly, kakashi is a jounin but he is amongst the top elites (under the Sannin, who are more elite then him). So comparing Kakashi as the scale for measuring a jounin is biased. Measure it with someone like Kurenai who is your average jounin.

There is no way 2.5 years aho Sasuke could stand to Kimimaro. Naruto and Gaara probably can but it would be by default because they have enough demon powers to atleast save them by lasting more then Kimimaro's death (remember he was there with one foot in the grave, only time killed him in reality).

CS2Sasuke or any other CS2 characters we seen would been a match for Kimimaro because they simply wont survive the battle. The powerup session is inexistant in shinobi world (atleast the 2nd powerup), because unlike those battles most shinobis wont wait till you get CS2 to kill they will kill you before you even attempt to go there.

That's why no matter what CS they had the Sound 4 and Sasuke would have been no match for a full fledged jounin (one on one). Kimi would because he is a jounin himself (although shinobi rank really dosn't exist in Orochimaru's camp).

Kimi would have given some serious problem to people like Kakashi, Gai and Asuma who would have to get serious to beat him (like Gai opening gates etc.).

CS, CS2 < Jounin, unless the CS user is a jounin himself. So if it was someone like Anko CS vs. Sasuke CS, Anko would most likely woop his butt(of course she dosn't have cs2 but knowing here she would kill him way before that she isn't your freindly loving kunochi).

[Takagou]

dude...if your saying that naruto kyuubi-fied could beat kimi, then sasuke cs2 could as well, since cs2 beat kyuubi.

[MartialHorror]

yeah but in naruto vs sasuke, Naruto was restricted to just defeating Sasuke, not killing him. While Sasuke at the time probably was going to kill Naruto.

Kyuubi2 Naruto probably would do some damage to Kimimaro, but once Kimimaro goes CS2 Naruto is screwed.

In terms of this fight, I believe that Sasuke would have more power, but Kimimaro the skill.

It depends what new abilities Sasuke would have, but from what we know(Same thing ith that Jounin tournament........) Sasuke only has Katon, Lion Combo, Chidori, developed Sharingan. Probably Kage Bunshin as well..........

None of these(minus Chidori) would work on Kimimaro. and Kimimaro would just impale Sasuke.

[Takagou]

Sasuke didnt try to kill naruto actualy....euh..i dont wanna explain, but its somwhere in the sasuke fc

[shintebukuro]

Yes, but Sasuke was pissed off and full of rage while the Sound 4 weren't really trying at all.

Sasuke had yet to vastly improve his ability with his 3-tomoe sharingan...not to mention Sakon is the strongest of the sound four.

It does, but not to the point where he can take on opponents who would have slapped him silly before,

uhhh that's EXACTLY what it did for him against Naruto. But let me guess, are you going to assume that it only did that against Naruto for specific reasons, in order to benefit your side of the argument? The general idea was that once Sasuke got 3 tomoe sharingan, his ability went waaay up. Before he got the third tomoe, he didn't stand a chance against Naruto, afterwards, Naruto didn't stand a chance against him. If you're thinking beyond that, it's due to bias.

Uh, no, it was never stated that Sasuke and Kimimaro's CS were different from the Sound Four. It was stated that Sasuke and Kimimaro's Cursed Seals were different from each other(Heaven vs. Earth), but it wasn't said that they were different from the Sound Four. Besides, in each case the CS seems to have the same effect. Change in physical appearance and large increase in chakra total.

If I recall correctly, it was stated that Sasuke and Kimimaro's seals were equal. Why would Kishimoto bother pointing that out, if all the seals were equal? Is it any coincidence he was comparing Sasuke's seal to the strongest member of the sound 5? Is it any coincidence that Kabuto later questions whther Kimimaro or Sasuke is stronger?

And I'm sure tha the Sound 4 could have beaten him. You think Naruto would have any answer to Tayuya's genjutsu? What about Kidoumaru's long ranged attacks? How would Naruto stop Ukon's special ability?

The epic proportions of Sasuke and Naruto's battle implies they were on a higher level than the sound four. Naruto isn't about rock paper scissors, and it's very clear that Naruto/Sasuke were on a higher level than Shikamaru and Kiba.

How do you expect them to fend of a Desert Avalanche?

Coming up with logical answers to specific questions like that is pointless. How would Asuma stop one? You have to use generalizations based on the character's levels to assume if someone would win. Naruto and Sasuke were fighting above the sound four's level, much like Gaara and Kimimaro.

Maybe because the Inuzuka clan was well known, so Kiba was expected to be fast. On the other hand, the people in Naruto's generation, while obviously knowing of the famous Uchiha clan, had no clue of their abilities aside from the Sharingan, since they were young when the massacre occured.

Amazing. I'm curious to hear other excuses you can come up with about dumb stats from the data book.

[BattousaiMS]

dude...if your saying that naruto kyuubi-fied could beat kimi, then sasuke cs2 could as well, since cs2 beat kyuubi.
...
(I think this is the third time i am repeating this is this thread you reall must be one bad reader).

THIS ISN'T YOUR FREAKING DBZ!

CS2Sasuke may have advantages over K2Naruto (mind you there werent any)

but that dosn't mean he would have advantages against C2Kimimaro.

Naruto's advantage against Kimi is mainly his instant healing power, C2Sasuke dosn't and will never have instant HEALING POWERS. So that means K2Naruto would last more against C2Kimimaro then C2Sasuke cuz unlike Sasuke, who would get impaled and die when Kimi attacks him at full power, K2Naruto would be still alive and badly injured (but healing fast).

CS2Sasuke hasn't shown anything that would even hint a rate of success against CS2Kimimaro, all he did was a black Chidori, big deal. The reuslt is same for Sasuke using chidoris he loses by draw because while he gives a death blow to Kimi, Kimi will impale him.

[jemakai]

but that dosn't mean he would have advantages agains C2Kimimaro.

Naruto's advantage against Kimi is mainly his instant healing power, C2Sasuke dosn't and will never have instant HEALING POWERS. So that means K2Naruto would last more against C2Kimimaro then C2Sasuke cuz unlike Sasuke, who would get impaled and die when Kimi attacks him at full power, K2Naruto would be still alive and badly injured (but healing fast).

CS2Sasuke hasn't shown anything that would even hint a rate of success against CS2Kimimaro, all he did was a black Chidori, big deal. The reuslt is same for Sasuke using chidoris he loses by draw because while he gives a death blow to Kimi, Kimi will impale him.

Your simply blinding yourself and thinking only on one level. One could easily say kimi has nothing to counter dark chidori while atleast Naruto had his Kyuubi rasengan. There is also more ways to beat Kimi then your closed mind will allow you to see.
Sasuke won his fight against Naruto because he simply outlasted him. Naruto had to reach into his higher levels sooner then Sasuke did, thus he started to burn out sooner then Sasuke. This is shown when Naruto's arm went limb while Sasuke just transformed into his curse seal 2, Naruto was breaking down even before them made their final attacks.
3 tomoe sharingan is what decieded it for Sasuke. Kyuubi Naruto was burning himself out trying to beat Sasuke, then Sasuke mangages to turn the tides and beat down Kyuubi Naruto while he is conserving chakra using sharingan rather then curse seal 1. Then Naruto transforms to Kyuubi 2 Naruto and Sasuke still was only in his normal form dodging Kyuubi 2 Naruto's attacks, thus he was saving chakra in his first form while Naruto was burning chakra in his third form.

Since even Kyuubi 2 Naruto was predicted and only was able to hit Sasuke thanks to independent chakra, CS2 Kimi who appeared to be even slower then he was before(he DEFINETLY was not faster then Kyuubi 2 Naruto) will not be able to hit 3 tome sharingan Sasuke. A second way to beat kimi is like anyone else with a curse seal, simply outlast them. If Kimi is curse seal 2 while Sasuke is dodging him while conserving chakra kimi will eventually run out.
In the end kimi's CS2 form seems lacks the mobility to dodge a regular chidori much less a dark chidori. So really kimi is the one at a disadvantage, he is the one who needs to rework his strategy if he wants to win. Of course you will never see this. You will continue to say that Kimi can kill Sasuke by countering a chidori, yet it was explicitly stated that sharingan's purpose is to allow the user to avoid any counters.

[MartialHorror]

erm,

Kimimaro isn't stupid. If Sasuke charged him with Chidori, Kimimaro would impale him at the same time.

Sasuke's only hope is a draw.

[BattousaiMS]

Your simply blinding yourself and thinking only on one level. One could easily say kimi has nothing to counter dark chidori while atleast Naruto had his Kyuubi rasengan. There is also more ways to beat Kimi then your closed mind will allow you to see.
Sasuke won his fight against Naruto because he simply outlasted him. Naruto had to reach into his higher levels sooner then Sasuke did, thus he started to burn out sooner then Sasuke. This is shown when Naruto's arm went limb while Sasuke just transformed into his curse seal 2, Naruto was breaking down even before them made their final attacks.
3 tomoe sharingan is what decieded it for Sasuke. Kyuubi Naruto was burning himself out trying to beat Sasuke, then Sasuke mangages to turn the tides and beat down Kyuubi Naruto while he is conserving chakra using sharingan rather then curse seal 1. Then Naruto transforms to Kyuubi 2 Naruto and Sasuke still was only in his normal form dodging Kyuubi 2 Naruto's attacks, thus he was saving chakra in his first form while Naruto was burning chakra in his third form.

Since even Kyuubi 2 Naruto was predicted and only was able to hit Sasuke thanks to independent chakra, CS2 Kimi who appeared to be even slower then he was before(he DEFINETLY was not faster then Kyuubi 2 Naruto) will not be able to hit 3 tome sharingan Sasuke. A second way to beat kimi is like anyone else with a curse seal, simply outlast them. If Kimi is curse seal 2 while Sasuke is dodging him while conserving chakra kimi will eventually run out.
In the end kimi's CS2 form seems lacks the mobility to dodge a regular chidori much less a dark chidori. So really kimi is the one at a disadvantage, he is the one who needs to rework his strategy if he wants to win. Of course you will never see this. You will continue to say that Kimi can kill Sasuke by countering a chidori, yet it was explicitly stated that sharingan's purpose is to allow the user to avoid any counters.

Actually all I said was Naruto's only advantage against Kimi is his instant heal ability. Dont bring stuffs I didn't add and assume I did. Naruto has another thing going for him but you know K2Naruto vs. CS2Sasuke had a bit too much fillier animation, but if you want you can add the Kyuubi long range hand as an advantage against Kimi.

But all said in done, against Kimi Naruto has more advantages then Sasuke. That advantage is barely living alive.

Sharingan is made for counter yes, but Kimi's bone acts the same way as K2Naruto's chikara (on close range that is) and since Sasuke hitting chidori means that he will less then a meter near Kimi when he is about to strike, it also means that Sasuke's Sharingan won't be as effective at countering it. Sure give him 2-5 meter distance and 3 tomoe sharingan will save Sasuke, but at that close range... think not.

Sasuke will win as long as he keeps a good amont of distance between him and Kimi and has powerful jutsus to hit Kimimaro from within that range. If he get's close he will most liekly get severly injured (heck anyone would, except maybe Gaara and his armor of sand that might take of those of the blows impact, enuff to not having him drip vblood all over). So instead of simply reliying only on the chidori think of other ways for Sasuke to defeat Kimi that's what i did.

The example i gave of anko vs. sasuke was because anko is somewhat of a full-fledged jounin (she will be) so to make a better comaparaison between the CS1 of a jounin and CS1 of a chuunin.

CS2Kimimaro > CS2Sasuke: because Kimi is a jounin level fighter, so it means that he's natural power is already greater then Sasuke and because he's bloodline is effective against anyone who wants to play with him at close range. That dosn't mean he is invincible, it simply means that Sasuke will be the underdog against him with his current fighting style type(Ninjutsu/Taijutsu). Now after 2.5 years if Sasuke becomes like he's brother (Genjutsu/Ninjutsu) all the merrier for him. But I think you would agree with me that Sasuke preferes ninjutsu and taijutsu over genjutsu anyday and he's first set of attacks will be consistant of those.

Oh yeah I forgot to add this: Sasuke (3tome) could not avoid K2Naruto, the anime filled that section with fillers of Sasuke jumping away from the arms and the arms having near misses on him. In the manga, everytime Naruto launched Kyuubi chikara arms on him Sasuke got hit.

[Uchiha Madara]

erm,

Kimimaro isn't stupid. If Sasuke charged him with Chidori, Kimimaro would impale him at the same time.

Sasuke's only hope is a draw.

Thats what sharingan is for.... I think sasuke would take kimi after all that training. I hope this fight happens... like oro edo tenseis kimi to test sasuke after his training

[Gyroscope]

In those three years Sasuke would have improved much much more than what Kimimaro learnt from Oro in his lifetime.
Why???
Because Sasuke has a motive....Kimi didnt.Sasuke post timeskip would easily beat Kimimaro pre-timeskip

[Shishou]

Unless Sasuke is capable of hitting with a Chidori, or has a new technique that can kill someone, without doing physical damage.

Kimimaro is too tough to KILL. Even if someone is superior to Kimimaro in every way, unless they have something that can kill him, Kimimaro would outlast them.

Will Sasuke be at a 5 in speed now? Because he would need to be at a 5 or more to actually land a Chidori. Sasuke only had a 3.5 at the end of Part 1, and if Sasuke is the typical Sharingan user, like I think he is, he will be focusing on things he can copy. Therefore physically, he won't be that strong, but he will have an arsenal of techniques.



But since Orochimaru saying Itachi is stronger than him, means there is no doubt Itachi is stronger than him, according to fanboys. Kabuto saying no one can defeat Kimimaro, means NO ONE can defeat Kimimaro. I mean, its the same logic.

[SleepingDisaster]

three tomoe sharingan is very troublesome for kimimaro fighting style, and sasuke already become more like orochimaru, it's hard for kimimaro to defeat that his valuable person container

[BattousaiMS]

three tomoe sharingan is very troublesome for kimimaro fighting style, and sasuke already become more like orochimaru, it's hard for kimimaro to defeat that his valuable person container
It's not that troublesome at close range. Remember what Lee said when he met Sasuke the first time? It dosn't matter if you can see me if your body dosn't have the reaction time to avoid it. At close range Sasuke wont have it unless he reaches speed of 5 to compete with Kimi's 4.5 speed.

Kimi does have a motive, he wants to be the greatest weapon for his master. Now if he wasn't sick and Orochimaru still wanted Sasuke over him, I am sure he would atleast ask that he and Sasuke dual by death to see who is more deserving container :laugh .

[shintebukuro]

Remember what Lee said when he met Sasuke the first time? It dosn't matter if you can see me if your body dosn't have the reaction time to avoid it.

That was the two tomoe sharingan...which is absolutely nothing next to the three tomoe one.

[jemakai]

But since Orochimaru saying Itachi is stronger than him, means there is no doubt Itachi is stronger than him, according to fanboys. Kabuto saying no one can defeat Kimimaro, means NO ONE can defeat Kimimaro. I mean, its the same logic.

No one would include Kabuto, Oro, Tunsada, Jiraya, Kakashi, Gai, or any one in Ataksuki. Do you really believe Kimi can beat his own teachers, either Kabuto or Oro? Thats not logic at all my friend, use your head and actually try and analyze the information before repeating it like a parrot.

What makes it worst is that you that statement is from 2.5 years ago in Naruto and your applying it like it was said for the current time period in the manga. So basically the statement makes no sense and is outdated.
I really shouldn't expect more from you though....

Sasuke needing a 5 in speed? What the hell is wrong with you people? Do any of you honestly believe kimi is faster then Kyuubi 2 Naruto(who was still being predicted and only hit Sasuke with unpredictable chakra)?
Lee did not have a 5 in speed, infact he was slower then his normal 4, he was drunk(which means his reaction time was slower), and he didn't have anyway to predict Kimi's attacks yet he was only hit on the cheek and hand. Sasuke has a mastered sharingan and was already faster then Lee when he fought kimi because Lee was slower then normal, he can only get faster from there after 2.5 years. What makes you think Sasuke will die from spikes when a much slower sharinganless Lee only got hit on his hand and cheek? That makes no sense at all.
You know what, its a waste of time even acknowledging people who think like that. People who don't use their heads are not worth anyone's time.

[BattousaiMS]

That was the two tomoe sharingan...which is absolutely nothing next to the three tomoe one.
Erm how do you no it's nothing next to 3 tome sharingan?
All the 3 tome does to Sasuke to now is that he can predict the movement of an attack and actually see in before its comming. But at 1 meters near a guy who can have one of his bones grow the size of a spear larger then their distance erm I don't think it would work much now would it?

Also Sasuke 3 tome got owned by K2Naruto who Kimimaro would act the same way but at a close range. So he still needs a fair distance if he dosn't want be the next marylin manson choped into pieces.

[Jonas]

IMO: (new) Naruto, Neji, Sasuke and Gaara > Kimimaro
All others - skeptic.

[Masa Def]

Sasuke seems more skilled and has a wide variety of attacks.

[Guts]

Is this if he didnt have the sickness? If so he would never have been in that thing that was keeping him alive, he would of been trsining getting stronger without sickness Kimi>>>>Sasuke with sickness it close.

[~Redchaos325~]

I think Sasuke.

[Sasuke_Asakura]

Sasuke wins

1.i like sasuke more
2.i know so0me of his new abilities like summoning snakes
3.sasuke's chidori can git threw kimimaro's bones
4.he has fire
5.he can outspeed kimimaro
6.cs2

thats just a couple of em..

[Doggie]

I dunno who can beat a healthy Kimimaro. He whupped the sound four, and if healthy he would have taken out Garra too.

But timeskip Sasuke is also extremely powerful. I reckon it's a close fight.

[Akkarin323]

Would he have taken out Gaara? The original question was Kimimaro 2.5 years before, when he was 15....Gaara, although he got worn out as hell, beat Kimimaro without much motivation.

[~Redchaos325~]

Timeskip Sasuke. He will win.

[slumpy]

i would say kimmimaro, the guy was pretty bad ass

[iander]

Sasuke is perfect to fight Kimmi. Hes got more speed, yeah kimmi could barely keep up with pretimeskip drunk lee without using his bones. Posttimeskip Sasuke is amazingly fast and has the sharingan. Plus his chidori can smash right through kimmi's bone guard. His new sword combined with chidori can break through the bone as well and paralyze kimmi. Sasuke would own him.

[~Redchaos325~]

Timeskip Sasuke...Chidori owns too much.

[Podman]

Post Sasuke is over kill. Pre-Sasuke could win without Cursed Seal.

Chidori to the Face !!!!!

[RoyalCreed]

to early but ill go with sasuke neway but kimmiaro does have a unique blood line

[momolade]

sasuke kimi i luv u ;_;

[~Shin~]

Sasuke just speedblitzes kimi and then puts a chidori through his head.