Code Geass World Geography and History discussion

[Mider T]

This thread is for discussing the politics and the Alternate Universe history and geographical subjects of the fictional Code Geass world. Starting from the resistance of Ceasar by the Britannians around 50 B.C., the timeline has differed rather interestingly but surprisingly not much. This thread should be stickied for those interested in making speculations about the changes.

What we know

-Ceasar's forces are resisted, with Britannia keeping it's isolation and developing into dominance. Britannia keeps absolute monarchy and the leader is named Emporer.

-Western world enters the Age of Revolution, with numerous people's revolutions take place – save for Britannia, which under Henry X held to absolute monarchy. After the French revolutions Napoleon emerges. He wins the Battle of Trafalgar and occupies London. In 1807, Queen Elizabeth III is chased to Edinburgh, where a popular revolutionary militias arrests her and forces her to abdicate and end the monarchy, an event known as The Shame of Edinburgh. However, The Duke of Britannia (in America) Ricardo Von Britannia and his friend and subordinate Knight of One, Sir Richard Hector, bring Elizabeth III and her followers to the new world and establish a capital on the east coast of the new continent.


-There are at least 18 areas over the world belonging to Britannia. The 18th being a recent addition by defeat of Princess Cornelia and Area 10 being located on the Indochinese Peninsula somewhere near Cambodia.

-The Chinese Federation is an enemy to both Britannia and the E.U. and encompasses many Southeast Asian nations and extends at least until India. These 3 world powers have a relationship not unlike the one described in the George Orwell novel 1984.

-Britannia's mainland is the whole Western World, from Greenland to the tip of Argentina.

-Austrailia is independent in this world, not interferring with politics or anything. Possibly due to the diverging history with European colonization.

-In the 16th century, Elizabeth I who remained single throughout her life had a son, Henry IX. The potential fathers, Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex, and Duke of Britannia Carl, gained influence and power as a result.

-The American Revolution (known as Washington's Rebellion) took place. The Duke of Britannia at the time bribes Benjamin Franklin with promises of titles and territories in the colonies, who was charged with appealing to Louis XVI of France's assistance in the colonies' war for independence. Thereafter, Benjamin Franklin seems to have become an earl. As a result, the Continental Army suffers a decisive defeat during the Siege of Yorktown, George Washington dies, and the Revolution is crushed.

-Elizabeth III died without leaving any heirs; she was supposed to have chosen her successor from one of her blood relations, but on her dying bed she nominated her lover, Ricardo Von Britannia the first instead. She is therefore famous for being "The Queen who loved throughout her stormy life." The Britannian year is established, with the origin year set as to the ascendancy of the first Celtic King.

-Napoleon died on his way back to France after his defeat at the Battle of Waterloo; although it was never proven, it is rumoured that assassins poisoned his food in accordance to Elizabeth III's will: her last words included the famous line "I do not forget slights to my honour."

Wikipedia's timeline of events

55 BC
Julius Caesar attempts to invade Britain, but was met with strong resistance from the local tribes, who elected a super-leader: the Celtic King Eowyn, who summarily became first member of the Britannian royal line.
Sakuradite (known as the "Philosopher's Stone" at the time) was discovered near Stonehenge. The scarcity of Sakuradite impeded the research to turn it into a viable energy source. However, in his travels, Marco Polo journeyed further into the East, reaching Japan and discovered the nation had a large deposit of Sakuradite.

The topic of Henry IX ascension to the throne is mentioned briefly during a History Lesson in Ashford Academy.16th Century a.t.b.
Elizabeth II, who remained single throughout her life, bears a son, Henry IX. The potential fathers, Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex, and the Duke of Britannia Carl, gained influence and power, with this knowledge.
Henry IX ascended to the throne, after the death of Elizabeth II, starting the Golden Age of the Tudor Dynasty.

1770s a.t.b.
The American Revolution (also known as Washington's Rebellion) occurs. The current Duke of Britannia bribes Benjamin Franklin with promises of titles and territories in the colonies, who was charged with appealing to Louis XVI for assistance in the American colonies' war for independence.
Thereafter, Benjamin Franklin is given the title of Earl. As a result, the Continental Army suffers a decisive defeat during the Siege of Yorktown, with the death of George Washington.

End of the 18th Century a.t.b.
The Western world enters the Age of Revolution, with numerous national revolutions taking place, save Britannia, under the rule of Henry X, who continued to hold absolute monarchy.
After French revolutionary Napoleon Bonaparte emerges, he wins the Battle of Trafalgar and occupies London.

In 1807 a.t.b., Queen Elizabeth III retreats to Edinburgh, where a revolutionary militia arrests and forces her to abdicate, ending the monarchy. This event became known as The Shame of Edinburgh (The Humiliation of Edinburgh, in the English dub). However, the current Duke of Britannia, Ricardo Von Britannia, and his friend and subordinate, the Knight of One, Sir Richard Hector, brings Elizabeth III and her followers to the New World and establishes a capital on the east coast of North America.

1813 a.t.b.
Elizabeth III nominates her lover, Ricardo Von Britannia, as her successor upon her death. She ends her reign for being "The Queen who loved throughout her stormy life". The Britannian calendar, Ascension Throne Britannia (a.t.b.), is established, with the origin year set to the ascendancy of the first Celtic King.

1821 a.t.b.
Napoleon Bonaparte dies on his way back to France, after his defeat at the Battle of Waterloo; although it was never proven, it is rumored that assassins poisoned his food in accordance to Elizabeth III's will. Her last words included the famous line, "I do not forget slights to my honour."[citation needed]

2010 a.t.b.
After the Indochinese Peninsula was conquered by Britannia and became Area 10, Japan, who was originally neutral, decided to align its policy with Chinese Federation and EU's politics and apply economic pressure upon Britannia. Both Chinese Federation and EU and their allies have blockaded the ports of Britannia, hoping to force negotiations

The Second Pacific War erupts, resulting in the conquering of Japan by Britannia. The end of the war signifies Japan as a formal colony of Britannia, renamed Area 11 and its citizens known as "Elevens".[5]

2017 a.t.b.
The Black Rebellion breaks out. Zero, leader of the Order of the Black Knights and attempts to liberate Area 11, forming the United States of Japan.

Governor-General and Third Prince Clovis La Britannia is killed by Zero, the leader of the Order of the Black Knights

Second Princess Cornelia Li Britannia is appointed Governor-General of Area 11, naming Third Princess Euphemia Li Britannia as Lieutenant Governor-General and attempts at destroying the Black Knights all end in failure.

Using her power, Euphemia tries to creates a Special Administrative Zone of Japan.[9] It was revealed to be a ploy to massacre the "Elevens", and she is killed by Zero.[10]
The Black Knights ignite riots across the country as they continue to push towards Area 11 Government Complex. The rebellion is eventually pushed back and crushed, with most of the Black Knights killed or captured.[11] Area 11 is demoted to a correctional sub-area.

2018 a.t.b.
Within the Chinese Federation Consulate of Area 11, Zero reappears and redeclares the United States of Japan. Suzaku Kururugi becomes a member of the Knight of the Rounds
Eleventh Princess Nunnally Vi Britannia becomes Governor-General of Area 11, and then reestablishes the Special Administration Zone of Japan, with Zero's support, on the condition that he be Exiled.
Zero, along with over a million of his supporters, are Exiled from Area 11 and seek asylum in the Chinese Federation

Li Xingke and Zero disrupt the arranged wedding between First Prince Odysseus U Britannia and Empress Tianzi of the Chinese Federation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Cg_newmap.png

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3425/12129120298123e437e1269fx8.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12129120298123e437e1269fx8.jpg)

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/codegeass/images//thumb/d/d4/New_CG_Map.PNG/800px-New_CG_Map.PNG

Help me if I miss something, like discuss.

[Wesley]

Fucking bullshit. Ben Franklin is bought off? Could they have picked a more insulting Founder Father to throw under the fucking bus? Did they have even make that little factoid relevant in the series? Considering how easily we could have lost for like 80% of the war, they could have come up with any number of scenarios that didn't piss on a beloved American figure.

[Sasuke X]

Sources?

Without sources to back-up your information it's fanfiction.

[xpto]

Code Geass DVD Magazine i believe.

[Mider T]

Episodes, Picture Books, Creators, it's all there. This is compiled canon.

[Sunuvmann]

-The American Revolution (known as Washington's Rebellion) took place. The Duke of Britannia at the time bribes Benjamin Franklin with promises of titles and territories in the colonies, who was charged with appealing to Louis XVI of France's assistance in the colonies' war for independence. Thereafter, Benjamin Franklin seems to have become an earl. As a result, the Continental Army suffers a decisive defeat during the Siege of Yorktown, George Washington dies, and the Revolution is crushed.

-Elizabeth III died without leaving any heirs; she was supposed to have chosen her successor from one of her blood relations, but on her dying bed she nominated her lover, Ricardo Von Britannia the first instead. She is therefore famous for being "The Queen who loved throughout her stormy life." The Britannian year is established, with the origin year set as to the ascendancy of the first Celtic King.

-Napoleon died on his way back to France after his defeat at the Battle of Waterloo; although it was never proven, it is rumoured that assassins poisoned his food in accordance to Elizabeth III's will: her last words included the famous line "I do not forget slights to my honour."

All of this, sauce. The other stuff, yeah I that's from the episodes.

[Mider T]

DVD magazine and creator interviews, canon. I've reviewed it over with other fans just to check. And someone already seems to have taken my info and put it on wikipedia, word for word, in that short of a time.

[Sunuvmann]

Links to where you got this info. >____>

[Mider T]

Download links? Seriously, I told you where I got it from. Now discuss and speculate.

[Sasuke X]

Not unless you show the evidence and prove you didn't type it up yourself.

[Sunuvmann]

Well thats nice but I'd kinda like to read it first hand.

I believe what you said is legit but I'd still like to read sauce.

[DarkLordOfKichiku]

Well, you can find the same info on the wikipedia "settings & Themes of Code geass" page, but exactly how reliable it is I have no idea of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settings_and_themes_of_Code_Geass

[Sasuke X]

Well, you can find the same info on the wikipedia "settings & Themes of Code geass" page, but exactly how reliable it is I have no idea of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settings_and_themes_of_Code_Geass

.............

And someone already seems to have taken my info and put it on wikipedia, word for word, in that short of a time.

:nod

[Mider T]

Episodes Season 1-25, the little lesson in the backgrounds.
Albums 1-6.
The 6 picture dramas.
DVD Magazines.
DVD extras.
Radio broadcasts
Audio dramas?

[Saruto]

Episodes Season 1-25, the little lesson in the backgrounds.
Albums 1-6.
The 6 picture dramas.
DVD Magazines.
DVD extras.
Radio broadcasts
Audio dramas?

Dude, we need sauce links.

[Felix]

Lore is always good
We need more info, like, how the EEU and the CF came to be as well.

[Mider T]

I explained it how the EU came to be above.

[Wesley]

I explained it how the EU came to be above.

Got any names to go with that garbage? Authors, script-writers, directors, magazine editors?

[Wesley]

-Ceasar's forces are resisted, with Britannia keeping it's isolation and developing into dominance. Britannia keeps absolute monarchy and the leader is named Emporer.

Yeah, losing in Gaul would have looked great on Ceasar's resume. It's not like Ceasar marched into Gaul to gain spoils and terroritory you know. It was to beat back uppity barbarians. Can a Ceasar that failed go on to be elected dictator and subsequently murdered, leaving his heirs the oppurtunity to consolidate their positions as the de facto rulers of Rome?

Probably not. This would probably mean a weaker Rome in the long run, leading to an early death at the hands of Gaul, and effectively stopping Christiandom's rise before it even began. That would mean a much more backwards and pagan Europe for a long time to come.

-Western world enters the Age of Revolution, with numerous people's revolutions take place – save for Britannia, which under Henry X held to absolute monarchy. After the French revolutions Napoleon emerges. He wins the Battle of Trafalgar and occupies London. In 1807, Queen Elizabeth III is chased to Edinburgh, where a popular revolutionary militias arrests her and forces her to abdicate and end the monarchy, an event known as The Shame of Edinburgh. However, The Duke of Britannia (in America) Ricardo Von Britannia and his friend and subordinate Knight of One, Sir Richard Hector, bring Elizabeth III and her followers to the new world and establish a capital on the east coast of the new continent.

Hey, all you folks that told me that Britannia =/= America, well, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS!? It's on the same landmass and everything with nearly the same freakin' date of birth!

Though what's really funny is how the apparent failure of the American Revolution had NO effect on the revolutions inspired by it.

-There are at least 18 areas over the world belonging to Britannia. The 18th being a recent addition by defeat of Princess Cornelia.

Means nothing to me.

-The Chinese Federation is an enemy to both Britannia and the E.U. and encompasses many Southeast Asian nations and extends at least until India. These 3 world powers have a relationship not unlike the one described in the George Orwell novel 1984.

Never read 1984 sorry to say. Though I did like Animal Farm. "Four legs good, two legs better!"

-Britannia's mainland is the whole Western World, from Greenland to the tip of Argentina.

Earned through bloody conquest and back-blading naturally. Honestly, I can't imagine the places past Texas being anything other than more trouble than they're worth.

-In the 16th century, Elizabeth I who remained single throughout her life had a son, Henry IX. The potential fathers, Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex, and Duke of Britannia Carl, gained influence and power as a result.

I'd probably have to watch the series to know why this has been put in, though it's probably for the sake of named characters of the present having some kind of leinage or whatever.

-The American Revolution (known as Washington's Rebellion) took place. The Duke of Britannia at the time bribes Benjamin Franklin with promises of titles and territories in the colonies, who was charged with appealing to Louis XVI of France's assistance in the colonies' war for independence. Thereafter, Benjamin Franklin seems to have become an earl. As a result, the Continental Army suffers a decisive defeat during the Siege of Yorktown, George Washington dies, and the Revolution is crushed.

Ignoring his character, Ben Franklin was really freakin' old by that time. You think money and titles are going to matter to an old guy that flies kites during thunderstorms? He knows he's not going to be around for much longer!

Of course the "final battle" has to be held at Yorktown, even though the continental army was barely hanging by a thread all the way leading up to it. Couldn't have defeated us at any other point could they? Wouldn't have been as dramatic and there wouldn't have been the name recognition, which is all this background information is comprised of; names that might be recognized by people.

-Elizabeth III died without leaving any heirs; she was supposed to have chosen her successor from one of her blood relations, but on her dying bed she nominated her lover, Ricardo Von Britannia the first instead. She is therefore famous for being "The Queen who loved throughout her stormy life." The Britannian year is established, with the origin year set as to the ascendancy of the first Celtic King.

Right, because Christians don't exist in Code Geass remember? No Roman Empire? They're all dirt-worshipping pagans, which would mean a freak like C.C. would probably be worshipped as nature-incarnate.

-Napoleon died on his way back to France after his defeat at the Battle of Waterloo; although it was never proven, it is rumoured that assassins poisoned his food in accordance to Elizabeth III's will: her last words included the famous line "I do not forget slights to my honour."

That is sooo badass. Nevermind the guy was thoroughly beaten and would die alone in exile of stomach cancer on some island. Kicking a man while he's down really...

Naturally we need that quote to inspire the future generations to be douchebags to one another! What a nice precedent.

[Felix]

Yes the whole thing about the American revolution is a bit dodgy
I still want more EU and CF information :argh

[Mider T]

Thank you Wesley for being the first one to actually discuss. Now ignoring your backhanded satire towards me I have a few comments, your first retort is pushing the limit then you try to use it to back up your penultimate one. Please explain why you think Ceasar was responsible for the spread of Christianity?

And the island was St. Helena.

[DarkLordOfKichiku]

Please explain why you think Ceasar was responsible for the spread of Christianity?

Well, didn't christanity become a state religion of Rome at some point, because one of the emperors were apparenly interested in the religion and made it the state religion? Thanks to that Christany could become spead through the whole roman empire such as it was. But if we assume that the roman empire couldn't spead as far as it did in reality or even fell apart before it did in our reality, then the idea of Christanity might not have had the opportuny to become so widespread - or even spread at all...

[Mider T]

Constantine? Charlemange? What do guys who lived centuries after the fall of the Roman empire have anything to do with Ceasar, who lived centuries before?

[DarkLordOfKichiku]

Constantine? Charlemange? What do guys who lived centuries after the fall of the Roman empire have anything to do with Ceasar, who lived centuries before?

Everything, perhaps. After all, if the roman empire had fallen at a much earlier point, would things still be the same today? Would even some of the people we know from history have come forth had things not gone as they did? Hard to say (althrough at least certain historical figures seems to have emerged in the CG timeline nonetheless)...

[Mider T]

The point I'm trying to make is, Ceasar's failure wouldn't have changed history this much for Rome, maybe for Northern Europe though.

[Nathan]

Wow, reading Wesley's post I see that they practically butchered American history. I, of couse, don't know alot of American history cause I am Canadian.

But I see an arrow on that image in the first post pointing out of Quebec. So if Britannica took control of Canada during the time of the American Revolution, and not only that but the Revolution fails, Britan is then in charge of all of Canada and America, yes? But that also means some key cities like Vancouver would have never been created cause it was the fear that the Americans would take over the west of Canada (Manifest Destiny?) that created B.C, Alberta etc.

The citizens would not have this fear if they were already united as one under Britannica.

[Mider T]

Well at that time Britain (real life) still had complete control over Canada, so presumably that didn't cause much trouble in the ATB timeline either.

[Springlake]

The point I'm trying to make is, Ceasar's failure wouldn't have changed history this much for Rome, maybe for Northern Europe though.

Actually, since the conquering of England pretty much didn't give squat 'cept for losing loads of soldiers, the soldiers that supposely was lost because of 1; fighting in England and 2; remain there as guards, could have been put to better use for their continued fighting in northerend europe.

[Mider T]

Okay then, so history would have been changed even less.

[Wesley]

Thank you Wesley for being the first one to actually discuss. Now ignoring your backhanded satire towards me I have a few comments, your first retort is pushing the limit then you try to use it to back up your penultimate one. Please explain why you think Ceasar was responsible for the spread of Christianity?

And the island was St. Helena.

First, my satire isn't directed at anyone in particular. I certainly don't mean it as a sleight against you, unless you're the party responsible for this hackjob of what passes as Geass's history.

And it's really quite simple. Not only does Ceasar failing in Gaul mean the Roman Republic is more vunerable to barbarian invasion, it also means the likelihood of him and his heirs rising to supreme prominence is much less likely, meaning no Empire and more importantly, no Emperors, specifically of the Christian variety.

Without Rome to give it a leg up, Christianity would have been set back hundreds of years, if it ever really got anywhere.

Actually, since the conquering of England pretty much didn't give squat 'cept for losing loads of soldiers, the soldiers that supposely was lost because of 1; fighting in England and 2; remain there as guards, could have been put to better use for their continued fighting in northerend europe.

I don't think Ceasar even got as far as the British Isles.

Okay then, so history would have been changed even less.

Think so? Roman Garriasons had a cultural effect on local populations. Becoming Roman was as much the "in-thing" back then as American culture is today. If Rome doesn't enjoy a long prosperious history, everything from language, architeture, military tactics, will be dramatically effected all throughout the world.

[Mider T]

I just don't see how you jump to those conclusions, one failure of conquering does not mean turmoil in the whole empire. For Orange-kun's sake, it wasn't even fought on Roman soil. The only thing I can see being different is Brutus doing his thing a bit earlier due to outrage.

Remember, Ceasar was considered a god. One slip-up ain't gonna change the public opinion of him.

[Watchman]

I just don't see how you jump to those conclusions, one failure of conquering does not mean turmoil in the whole empire. For Orange-kun's sake, it wasn't even fought on Roman soil. The only thing I can see being different is Brutus doing his thing a bit earlier due to outrage.

Remember, Ceasar was considered a god. One slip-up ain't gonna change the public opinion of him.

Actually, in Rome at the time, a slip-up such as that would have probably cost him his political career, or at the very least provided a massive stumbling block.

[Mider T]

Explain why. I'm not on the same page as you.

[Wesley]

I just don't see how you jump to those conclusions, one failure of conquering does not mean turmoil in the whole empire. For Orange-kun's sake, it wasn't even fought on Roman soil. The only thing I can see being different is Brutus doing his thing a bit earlier due to outrage.

Remember, Ceasar was considered a god. One slip-up ain't gonna change the public opinion of him.

What you fail to understand apparently is that Caesar not trouncing the Gauls means the Gauls will threaten the Republic. What Caesar did was essentionally take the fight to them, rather than wait for Rome to be sacked. Successfully doing so gave him alot of brownie points among the Roman Senate and elite, gaining their financial and military support, so that he would better be able to fight his rivals during the Roman civil wars.

Failure wouldn't have gained him any confidence and left him a much poorer man. Not to say he would have been utterly defeated, but it would have been a pretty big setback in his career.

[Mider T]

The Gauls were essentially a rag-tag, non-united band of misfits who used Guerilla warfare to win their battles. Don't believe me, read Asterix. I highly doubt they would have even get past the Pyrennes mountains much less suceed in beating the greatest empire on Earth that time. Ceasar already had political backing, he was in it for the greed and personal gain.

[Wesley]

The Gauls were essentially a rag-tag, non-united band of misfits who used Guerilla warfare to win their battles. Don't believe me, read Asterix. I highly doubt they would have even get past the Pyrennes mountains much less suceed in beating the greatest empire on Earth that time. Ceasar already had political backing, he was in it for the greed and personal gain.

Rome was sacked three times in it's last century by the Gauls. :sag

And they didn't use "guerilla warfare". They got down and dirty just like any army did at the time. Usually they'd lose, but losing entire Roman legions to them was not unheard of, even at the height of the Empire.

Even if the Gauls couldn't directly attack Rome, they were a threat along it's borders, and did perform raids from time to time. And without Ceasar beating them into submission and the later formation of a stronger, more enduring Empire, the Gauls would have probably sacked Rome at an earlier date.

[Watchman]

Explain why. I'm not on the same page as you.

Right, sorry about that. Basically, Roman commanders in war had a very much all-or-nothing mandate set upon them by the people. Those that won great victories were given fantastic riches, propelled to the upper echelons of Roman society, and honoured forever as being the perfect manifestation of what it meant to be "Roman".

However, Roman nationalism meant they could never admit that their culture was inferior to another in any way, and their martial pride meant that they would never admit that their soldiers were ever inferior to an enemy's. Therefore, any defeats they suffered had the blame resting solely on the shoulders of the commander. For example, the commanders of the Roman legions at Trebia, Lake Trasimene and Cannae were (where they survived) shunned by Roman society, and their descendents carried that disgrace with them too.

So if Caesar lost, and to a bunch of rag-tag barbarians no less (Romans looked at Celts less favourably than the forces of the Greeks, Anatolians or Carthaginians), then he would have been disgraced, and would have suffered at the very least a substantial roadblock to his Imperial ambitions. At most, he may have been exiled from political life altogether.

The Gauls were essentially a rag-tag, non-united band of misfits who used Guerilla warfare to win their battles. Don't believe me, read Asterix. I highly doubt they would have even get past the Pyrennes mountains much less suceed in beating the greatest empire on Earth that time. Ceasar already had political backing, he was in it for the greed and personal gain.

Wrong. The Gallic tribes were united in two major confederacies throughout the 3rd century BC - the Aedui and the Arverni. They fought each other incessantly up until the Roman invasion, at which point they were shattered and fragmented. Their own disputes with one another about land etc. were exploited by Caesar as he gained the support of one tribe to defeat another, and then turned on that tribe with new allies, rinse and repeat.

They were by no means simply guerilla warriors, and in fact, their main wartime strategies laid on successful pitched battles - they did not have the Professional armies of Rome; their warriors doubled as farmers, and needed to tend to their crops, making prolonged campaigns undesirable. This was one of their major failings as the Romans could essentially force them to fight on their terms, but if united, the Gallic Tribes could have posed a great threat to Rome (enough to prevent their expansion as they would have to guard their western and northern borders against the Gauls).

Also, at that time, the Roman Empire was the second greatest empire on Earth, due to the Han Chinese. :wink

[RAGING BONER]

Probably not. This would probably mean a weaker Rome in the long run, leading to an early death at the hands of Gaul, and effectively stopping Christiandom's rise before it even began. That would mean a much more backwards and pagan Europe for a long time to come.

Pagan Rome was more advanced Militarily, culturally and artistically than Christian Europe.

Europe, after the fall of Rome would not field an army as powerful as Ceasar's Legions until the 17th or 18th centuries.

And Christians were so ignorant during the middle ages that they actually 'forgot' how to create an arch and other architectural feats that the 'pagan' Greeks and Romans were masters of...

Christianities true gift to the world is shame and a healthy increase in bloodshed and "sin" whereever it spreads its filthy tentacles of power.

so much for the glory of Christendom.

[Wesley]

Pagan Rome was more advanced Militarily, culturally and artistically than Christian Europe.

Europe, after the fall of Rome would not field an army as powerful as Ceasar's Legions until the 17th or 18th centuries.

And Christians were so ignorant during the middle ages that they actually 'forgot' how to create an arch and other architectural feats that the 'pagan' Greeks and Romans were masters of...

Christianities true gift to the world is shame and a healthy increase in bloodshed and "sin" whereever it spreads its filthy tentacles of power.

so much for the glory of Christendom.

And just imagine how much worse off Christendom would have been without Roman influence. That's what my point is.

[Seitoukaichou]

Okay we've seen the EU and the Chinese Union. And Rakshad seems to be from the Indian Forces, so India is still alive and kickin'. Arabian world seems to be under attack from Britannia in Season I and renamed area 18.

But what about Russia/Soviet Union XD!? It seems China still have their socialistic communism kinda thing going, but what about russia o_o"? I hope there isn't a Tzar, or else they'll be like Brittannia XD

[C.]

But what about Russia/Soviet Union XD!? It seems China still have their socialistic communism kinda thing going, but what about russia o_o"? I hope there isn't a Tzar, or else they'll be like Brittannia XD

Russia appears to be part of the EEU.

anyone notice how Australia is a different color than the EEU, Chinese and Brittiannia? In the current environment, seems odd that it would be able to stand alone, and hasn't been conquered by any of the existing super powers.

[Seitoukaichou]

Hm... weird... o.O" but okay XD"

Wasn't australia a prison-colony for the Britian Empire and the Netherlands, back then o.o? Maybe now it's the same XD"""!? Or Australia is some kind of Oceania-alliance or indian territory o.O?

[Wesley]

Russia appears to be part of the EEU.

anyone notice how Australia is a different color than the EEU, Chinese and Brittiannia? In the current environment, seems odd that it would be able to stand alone, and hasn't been conquered by any of the existing super powers.

The greatest export Australia has is it's people. Make of that what you will. :P

[Seitoukaichou]

But in the Geass world XD? For all we know it can be a Aboriginal state XD"""""

[Zaru]

Russia appears to be part of the EEU.

anyone notice how Australia is a different color than the EEU, Chinese and Brittiannia? In the current environment, seems odd that it would be able to stand alone, and hasn't been conquered by any of the existing super powers.

There might be something mystical, epic - or australia is just not important :edu

[DarkLordOfKichiku]

anyone notice how Australia is a different color than the EEU, Chinese and Brittiannia? In the current environment, seems odd that it would be able to stand alone, and hasn't been conquered by any of the existing super powers.

Australia in Code geass is according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settings_and_themes_of_Code_Geass) an independent country, but it's not strong enough to be a big player, apparently. Why none of the three powers have invaded it remains a mystery, I suppose.

[Saruto]

Australia in Code geass is according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settings_and_themes_of_Code_Geass) an independent country, but it's not strong enough to be a big player, apparently. Why none of the three powers have invaded it remains a mystery, I suppose.

Probably not worth it. It probably has very little no naturally occurring Sakuradite.

[DarkLordOfKichiku]

Probably not worth it. It probably has very little no naturally occurring Sakuradite.

That - and it probably has none of those strange ruins that seems to be the main reason for the invasions of Brittania. Fortunately for them.. <_<.

[El Torero]

That´s 'cause kangaroos are spartans :LOS

I´m still loling that the big powerhouse in Code Geass world is the USA, but transformed into a monarchy. Say hi to Bush vi Britania! lol

[Mider T]

That's just it- it's not the US. It would be this world's equivalent of the Britons invading the US duing the American Revolution. So it'd be more like "Elizabeth Du Britannia" or "Gordon Br Britannia"

[Watchman]

That's just it- it's not the US. It would be this world's equivalent of the Britons invading the US duing the American Revolution. So it'd be more like "Elizabeth Du Britannia" or "Gordon Br Britannia"

:uwah

No. Dear God no!

Though really, considering Brown was born in Scotland, and Britannia no longer holds Scotland, I would say that there would be more chance of Bush vi Britannia... Which is even scarier.

[Mider T]

^ That idea's even worse.

Barack Ob Britannia anyone?:zaru

[Wesley]

How does a backwards island nation develope into dominance while remaining isolated? That's right, it doesn't. Self-imposed isolation is bad for cultural and technological developement of a country. A tiny little country isn't going to develope things like platemail, guns, sailing ships on it's own, nor are they going to develope a sophisicated form of government, complete with rule of law.

[Goodfellow]

How does a backwards island nation develope into dominance while remaining isolated? That's right, it doesn't. Self-imposed isolation is bad for cultural and technological development of a country. A tiny little country isn't going to develop things like platemail, guns, sailing ships on it's own, nor are they going to develop a sophisticated form of government, complete with rule of law.

Hmm, it depends. But which country are we talking about right now, Australia:huh?

[Wesley]

Hmm, it depends. But which country are we talking about right now, Australia:huh?

No, ancient Britiania after they beat Ceasar. They isolated themselves, but apparently became very powerful. You know, England wouldn't have been half the country it was if not for the French invading and ruling them every now and then.

[Mider T]

How does a backwards island nation develope into dominance while remaining isolated? That's right, it doesn't. Self-imposed isolation is bad for cultural and technological developement of a country. A tiny little country isn't going to develope things like platemail, guns, sailing ships on it's own, nor are they going to develope a sophisicated form of government, complete with rule of law.

Ironically, I can use real life Japan to prove you wrong.

[Wesley]

Ironically, I can use real life Japan to prove you wrong.

No, you can't, because they never 'achieved' dominance, and were still influenced by the Chinese and Korea, even though they'd never been invaded by them. And Japan was still fuedal hundreds of years after Europe was pulled out of that system.

[Saruto]

No, ancient Britiania after they beat Ceasar. They isolated themselves, but apparently became very powerful. You know, England wouldn't have been half the country it was if not for the French invading and ruling them every now and then.

Maybe they weren't isolated UNTIL they came to power just isolated until after the fall of the Roman Empire. I'm sure there was cultural influences and invasions from other places from the time of the Roman Empire to the Middle Ages. The world history doesn't fill in all the gaps.

[Wesley]

Maybe they weren't isolated UNTIL they came to power just isolated until after the fall of the Roman Empire. I'm sure there was cultural influences and invasions from other places from the time of the Roman Empire to the Middle Ages. The world history doesn't fill in all the gaps.

I suppose technically we don't know what "dominance" means exactly. Dominant in the British Isles? Europe? I just don't really understand why they felt compelled to go back as far as 40 BC in setting up some crack history for Code Geass, when the relevant bits only seem to occur between 1500-1800.

It's probably all C.C.s fault.

[Goodfellow]

I suppose technically we don't know what "dominance" means exactly. Dominant in the British Isles? Europe? I just don't really understand why they felt compelled to go back as far as 40 BC in setting up some crack history for Code Geass, when the relevant bits only seem to occur between 1500-1800.

It's probably all C.C.s fault.

That's actually a pretty good guess:nod

[Mider T]

The 1800s is when the calender was put into play and all of the "founding" events, if you will, was established.

The 50 B.C. tells the beginning of the country/empire.

[uncanny_sama]

lol at people getting angry :lmao

[Mider T]

Nobody got angry, it's a discussion. Now can you contribute to the convo?

[Watchman]

Does anyone know what the extra E in the EEU is? European something Union...

[C.]

I believe it's European Economic Union, don't quote me on it, but it makes sense.

[IchiTenshou]

Yes the whole thing about the American revolution is a bit dodgy
I still want more EU and CF information :argh

I think there will be more info about them later in R2 ^^

[Mider T]

Or maybe by "The Word of God" a la J.K. Rowling

[Mider T]

Revived for accuracy

[Lord Darkwolf]

I suppose technically we don't know what "dominance" means exactly. Dominant in the British Isles? Europe? I just don't really understand why they felt compelled to go back as far as 40 BC in setting up some crack history for Code Geass, when the relevant bits only seem to occur between 1500-1800.

It's probably all C.C.s fault.

Well CC was a friend of Washington during the Washington Rebellion (hmm Ben Frank might have been geassed by a geass user of a rival Immortal probably VV ) So the Immortals may have been the cause of the distortions in history .

[Nae'blis]

Does an Africa exist?

[DarkLordOfKichiku]

Does an Africa exist?

As far as I recall, in Code Geass, Africa is part of the EU...

[Mider T]

Well, Northern Africa does. There are some areas belonging to Britannia in the sub-saharan region of the continent.

[Shodai]

Where's it shown/said C.C. was a friend of Washington?

Does that mean she's been helping rebellions against Britannia for hundreds of years?

[Watchman]

Well, Northern Africa does. There are some areas belonging to Britannia in the sub-saharan region of the continent.

I'm pretty sure they showed a map at the beginning of one of the R2 episodes that showed the whole of Africa belongs to the EU. I was rather upset about that, because I wanted Britannia to have at least some of the holdings of the British Empire. (India, South Africa etc.) :(

[Mider T]

In a picture or audio drama I believe, I think she helps the underdog while V.V. goes with the more powerful one. Or Britannia might be the ones who always kill her.

Just my theory

[Zaru]

In before C.C. being Hitler's acquaintance

[Shodai]

In during a time where I don't have photoshop to do the above

[Mider T]

In before C.C. being Hitler's acquaintance

I don't think she goes with the dicators, as I said above. That's more down V.V.'s isle.

[Rob_Zero]

I believe it's European Economic Union, don't quote me on it, but it makes sense.

EU in terms of the Code Geass universe stands for "Euro Universe" according to either the March or the April (I forget which) issue of Newtype for this year. Yes, it's stupid sounding.

[Mider T]

Euroverse? Sounds kinda gay.

I guess that's why we never hear about them:zaru

[Fojos]

Dude, we need sauce links.

Stop being stupid, he just pointed you to the sources.

[Severien]

I have a question on the time line. Since a.t.b. is based upon the ascension of the celtic chieftan and this happened around 55-55 B.C does this mean if converted to our timeline 2018 a.t.b would be around A.D. 1963-1968?

[Sunuvmann]

I have a question on the time line. Since a.t.b. is based upon the ascension of the celtic chieftan and this happened around 55-55 B.C does this mean if converted to our timeline 2018 a.t.b would be around A.D. 1963-1968?
That's the idea.

[Mider T]

Actually no, think back to the first conversation Lelouch and Suzaku had in school. That aught to clarify things.

[Sunuvmann]

When it comes to development as a superstate, once they have the idea of America as being the center of the Britannian empire, it doesn't seem that illogical to see America develop to conquer the entirety of North and South America.

America has always been expansionist. Manifest destiny much? And when under the rule of an absolute monarchy where the right to suppress the inferiors is a large part of their dogma and there is no such thing as Jefferson's 'All men are created equal', its not hard to imagine that empire spreading across the Americas. In fact, if it wasn't for the US government deciding against it, by 1875, all of North America would have been under the rule of the US government.

Following the victory in the Civil War, many of the Northern generals were pushing for an invasion of Canada because they had the means and standing army. In the Mexican American war, The US had gotten all the way to Mexico City but the military was recalled, having come to a peace agreement.

Its quite easy to see that an American government under Absolute Monarchy would have, and could have easily taken those continents. With no legislature, or a weak one at that to oppose it, it would be rather easy for them to have made full use of their might.


Further more when it comes to the EU, that seems like the current EU, a reaction to the superstate status that would have come with the full conquest of the the Americas. And their rivalry, Britannia would have not been a part of the Roman empire and as such would have been much more culturally dissimilar from continental Europe. Then with Napoleon, a form of the EU existed in a sense with his continental system and with him not having been defeated but merely assassinated, that would have likely continued to exist (and with Britannia as an enemy still existing), especially with him being a martyr, not a failure.

By the way, I'd totally fucking lol if they have one part where they reference Prime Minister Adolf Hitler as a previous head of the EU.

All of this political universe is rather plausible with England having had a monarchical system so entrenched for 2 millenia. England itself was rather tribal and continued to be so until 1066 with the exception of them having a king which was elected and not so much hereditary. The familial dynastic approach only came about with William the Conquerer. But if a uniting under one ruler happened much earlier and the culture that comes with it had been around all that time, it would have had a dramatic effect on the timeline.

By the way, have they said anything about Columbus? I wonder if they'd say that it was Britain that took the Aztec and Inca empires or if they'll say it was Spain as in our verse but England conquered it later.

[Mider T]

I'm quite curious myself about Columbus but something's been bothering me, did the invasion from Normandy actually succeed in this universe? What about the Vikings? Since Britannia seems to have never lost a battle.

[Sunuvmann]

Well its quite possible he didn't go on behalf of Spain and instead went for Britannia instead. He did go around and look for a royal sponsor among the different houses and he had tried England before Isabel allowed him use of their ships.

Who knows about Normandy. It wouldn't have seemed like a big deal if it had. William had a claim to the throne through a relative or another and he'd just have made a challange to the throne among the other princes like probably has so happened quite often in Britannian history.

Vikings never were more than a niusance who just came every so often to raid, they never made a conceted effort at an invasion.

[donkor]

So how did Napoleon lose in Waterloo after conquering England? About half the troops were British IIRC, Napoleon would've crushed them.

And has there been an explanation for why a country that has very little influence from the Romans would use a Roman military title as the name of its supreme leader?

[Watchman]

So how did Napoleon lose in Waterloo after conquering England? About half the troops were British IIRC, Napoleon would've crushed them.

I thought Napoleon won Waterloo in this timeline, and was assassinated en route to France...

And has there been an explanation for why a country that has very little influence from the Romans would use a Roman military title as the name of its supreme leader?

What? Emperor was a Roman title? Imperator was, but Emperor was in use prior to the Romans, I believe - not least with the Emperors of China, even if you discount the Persian Shahnashah as not an Emperor but just a King of Kings, or Alexander the Great as simply a King, or the Mauryan Empire...

[Mider T]

No, in real life Napolean lost Waterloo and was exiled to an island called St. Helena, later he died of a stomach ailment in 1821 about 6 years later.

[Mider T]

Supposedly in that reality, Napolean created the EU before being assassinated.

[Fleecy]

Is Arthurian legend only loosely alluded to or are there heavy themes in CG? Lancelot (Suzaku) and Gawain (Lelouch) were friends but separated to become enemies. Mordred (Anya) is a knight of the Round Table. Arthur is the king of the Knights of the Round Table, and Arthur the cat stays with the Knight of Rounds. Are those the only connections or references?

[The Rook]

Alternate histories are always pointless. How are historical figures like Franklin and Napoleon going to exist if history his changed?

[Mider T]

I'm sure they're just refrences Fleecy because like Evangelion everything doesn't have to mean something, just stand for it.

This thread should be stickied:pek

[Mider T]

Updated the first page

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/CGHistory.jpg/300px-CGHistory.jpg

[Sunuvmann]

Supposedly in that reality, Napolean created the EU before being assassinated.
Makes sense as EU is just an extension of Napoleon's continental system.

[Mider T]

Though I find it interesting, in the a.t.b. timeline Napolean is assassinated the same year he dies from stomach cancer in ours.

Guess the writers didn't want to make it too confusing lol.

[Mider T]

Updated the first page and wikipedia a bit because I love you all so much:iria

[Mider T]

Well did anyone find any new info from the special? (I didn't watch it myself)

[Felix]

What special? There was no special recently (I think)

[Mider T]

I mean the replacement for episode 9. I just saw the previews for 9 and 10.

[Black Drako]

The thing I don't understand is if the empire is called Britania why does it start from America as seen at the start of some episodes?

[Alekzu]

The thing I don't understand is if the empire is called Britania why does it start from America as seen at the start of some episodes?

Taken from the first post of this thread:
-Western world enters the Age of Revolution, with numerous people's revolutions take place – save for Britannia, which under Henry X held to absolute monarchy. After the French revolutions Napoleon emerges. He wins the Battle of Trafalgar and occupies London. In 1807, Queen Elizabeth III is chased to Edinburgh, where a popular revolutionary militias arrests her and forces her to abdicate and end the monarchy, an event known as The Shame of Edinburgh. However, The Duke of Britannia (in America) Ricardo Von Britannia and his friend and subordinate Knight of One, Sir Richard Hector, bring Elizabeth III and her followers to the new world and establish a capital on the east coast of the new continent.

So it started out in Britannia, but were forced to move to America. Also, Ricardo Von Britannia later became the first emperor of the Holy empire of Britannia. It's all in the first post of this thread.

[Mider T]

Reps to the person who can find me a pic of the Chinese Federation as seen at the beginning of R2 episode 9.

[Alekzu]

Mean this one? :)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3425/12129120298123e437e1269fx8.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12129120298123e437e1269fx8.jpg)

Regards to DJ_RockmanX, who posted it on animesuki.

[Sawako]

Hey, I have a question.

Do we know what other areas Britannia controls besides for Japan and America? I was just curious what the other areas were, since Japan is 11 and I have no idea what comes before it.

[Mider T]

Hey, I have a question.

Do we know what other areas Britannia controls besides for Japan and America? I was just curious what the other areas were, since Japan is 11 and I have no idea what comes before it.

First post, along with first 2 pages of discussion.

[mary no jutsu]

Hmmm this makes me wonder about countries like the phillipines. Would Britannia end up invading the country instead of Spain? I'm doubting it since the map says it's part of the chinese federation.

That's wild considering the filipino culture is so influenced by spanish culture.

[Altron]

We need to see more of the E.U. military in action, and i bet Britannia even if it controls half of the E.U. will never take Russia and the eastern E.U. due to the fact that the infamous winter will cripple their army just like Napoleon and Hitler. Though seriously i would like to see more E.U vs Britannia battles and Lelouch getting the E.U along with the Black Knights to force Britannia on two fronts.

[Mider T]

Hmmm this makes me wonder about countries like the phillipines. Would Britannia end up invading the country instead of Spain? I'm doubting it since the map says it's part of the chinese federation.

That's wild considering the filipino culture is so influenced by spanish culture.

Yes, in our universe. Napolean pretty much took control of all of Europe after Britannia moved the homeland to the Western World, so the Phillippines was never completely controlled by the Spanish Armada. The same thing with the Dutch Indies and French Vietnam, Global Imperialism was dominated by Britannia for centuries, which is why we have a lack of WWI. As for the islands, me thinks the Chinese Federation grabbed up as much as it could before Britannia could get it's mitts on it, judging by India's thrist for freedom.

[iander]

Theres just no way that Britannia could have conquered central and south america. Even if left in total isolation from outside powers, they would not have had the ability to achieve that, especially at least it seems without the benefits of slavery. It would be like 100x the strain thats being experienced in Iraq and Afghanistan and multiplied by 100x more due to disease which can annihilate entire armies.

[Altron]

Since i am still waiting for more of the E.U. military, and we do not yet still know the details on how Schinzel conquered E.U. controlled North Africa. I have begun a Fan Fic that explains the El Alamein with a small snippet/preview for chp.1. Until we learn later on how Africa fell to Britannia, since i am sure many of us are wondering how Schinzel can conquer nearly an entire continent so easily.

Code Geass: The War For El Alamein (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=387265)

[Mider T]

@ iander: Why do you think that?
@ Altron: It wasn't just Schneizel, who conquered E.U. Remember Cornelia's debut? That at least establishes that North Africa had been battling Britannia for awhile, and losing the fight with inferior warfare.

[Altron]

@ iander: Why do you think that?
@ Altron: It wasn't just Schneizel, who conquered E.U. Remember Cornelia's debut? That at least establishes that North Africa had been battling Britannia for awhile, and losing the fight with inferior warfare.

Though, we don't have the details like if Schinzel used the Knight Of Rounds and what kind of defense the E.U. put up, since all we saw was a glimpse of the invasion fleet. I mean seriously the E.U. can not be that weak or they would have already been conquered by Britannia long ago.

[Mider T]

Not necessarily, there are strength in numbers. Few things we know about EU is that it's very democratic, to the point having subtle anarchy and it doesn't involve itself within world affairs.

[iander]

My supposition is based on the premise that Britannia had conquered the americas before post modern warfare (IE before say the 1990s). With a shitload of knightmare frames they could achieve that but from the looks if it, it seems it was done way before they were invented so thats what im going to assume.

Anyway, ive lived in a bunch of central and south american countries and so ive seen how they resist foreign influence not just of other countries but of corrupt governments as well. That area also contains large amounts of jungle and tropical terrain in many places which as americans have seen from fighting both Japan and Vietnam in the past, is incredibly difficult to fight a sustained war. Up to around World War II, medicine was not advanced enough for an army exposed to those kind of conditions to survive for a long enough time to conquer it completely. In fact, in the Spanish American War for example, thousands of American soldiers were dying of diseases and would have lost the war if it had not been for the allied cuban insurgency and the Spanish who caved, and this was just to take the small island of cuba. Even after World War II, it was still difficult, take Vietnam for example. Even with modern medicine and the superiority of the American military, there is serious trouble holding just the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan (and thats with the help of foreign armies as well). I just cant believe that Britannia would have the military capabilities to not only conquer but maintain control over all the americas.

[Mider T]

Well you also have to remember where they are in location to South America. It would more like North Vietnam vs. South Vietnam, both sides know the opposites landscape and they could easily take the non-united South America. Britannia is a much more powerful force than our current United States of America, so much so that they could easily overwhelm through sheer force before the diseases of the Amazon (which is also chalk full of herbal cures) got to them at all. For all we know, the fighting could've taken place in the mountains of Central America.

The canon doesn't give any hints though to how Britannia gained full control over the Western World, so it's completely up to speculation.

[Watchman]

Well you also have to remember where they are in location to South America. It would more like North Vietnam vs. South Vietnam, both sides know the opposites landscape and they could easily take the non-united South America. Britannia is a much more powerful force than our current United States of America, so much so that they could easily overwhelm through sheer force before the diseases of the Amazon (which is also chalk full of herbal cures) got to them at all. For all we know, the fighting could've taken place in the mountains of Central America.

The canon doesn't give any hints though to how Britannia gained full control over the Western World, so it's completely up to speculation.

Well, wasn't Britannia the only Colonial power in Code Geass Timeline? As in the traditional colonial powers of Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, etc. were busy being embroiled in the Age of Revolution, or whatever, and only Britannia was conquering overseas? Because if that's the case, then wouldn't Britannia just be fighting (relatively) primitive civilizations without even gunpowder? I'm sure that they had a massive advantage against Mesoamerican and Andean civilizations.

[Mider T]

First of all, Europe came under one union after Napolean took the British Isles. Even so, Brittania might have already had South America from Spanish colonies.

[Mider T]

Pistols
A generic handheld weapon initially introduced during the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods, which accelerates a metallic bullet out of a barrel with use of a strong electromagnetic pulse, not unlike a coilgun. Gunpowder was never adopted as a standard projectile propellant for handheld weapons within the world of Code Geass.

Interesting.

[DB_Explorer]

thought just occurred to me, while i seriously doubt that ben franklin could of been bribe, the United States had to loose the revolution or when napoleon took over Britan, Brittania would cease to exists.

wait did'nt the revolution in the US help cause the French revolution due to the dept it caused? if they lost would the revolution still occur and allow napeolan to take over? well i suppose his conquest of Britain replaces his conquest of africa, which due to cleaver writing made him quite famous.

[Mider T]

The stage was probably made all the easier for Napolean to take over if the Colonies of the New World had lost the Revolution because as you said it means
-No Revolution in France
-No Reign of Terror
-No Failed Government
-No Taste of Victory

Napolean would all the more look like a Knight in Shining Armor to take over and somehow Horratio Nelson would've went down in history as not only a dead man, but a failure as well.

[MalwareDie]

If Schneizel has captured half of the EU, wouldn't that mean that Russia (Because Russia is huge) is the only part of the EU still under EU control? Or maybe it's most of Russia that is conquered.

[Mider T]

The OU (Our Universe) European part of Russia is under EU territory while the Asian part is under the Chinese Federation rule. It's a fact:edu

[masamune1]

The stage was probably made all the easier for Napolean to take over if the Colonies of the New World had lost the Revolution because as you said it means
-No Revolution in France
-No Reign of Terror
-No Failed Government
-No Taste of Victory

Napolean would all the more look like a Knight in Shining Armor to take over and somehow Horratio Nelson would've went down in history as not only a dead man, but a failure as well.

Napoleon was a General in the armies of the French Republic, which managed to get itself embroiled in endless wars against the Kingdoms of Europe, hostile to the existence of a democratic, "mob-run" government that deposed and killed the French royalty who, after all, were family to most of these nation's rulers.

Of course, Revolutionary France was the one that actually declared war in most of these situations, partly out of a desire to "liberate" her neighbours, partly because she thought those neighbours as they stood were out to get her, which admittedly they were.

Had there been no revolution and these events not taken place, Napoleon may have become a footnote on the pages of history. He conquered in France's name because France happened to be at war with pretty much every country, and became leader and then Emperor because he made political moves in a new and unstable pst-revolutionary republic. He would never have been able to do this had the Revolution not taken place, particularly since as a commander he was talented, but not more so than a few other generals.

He got where he got due to his outrageous ambition, which he would not have been unlikely to realise had FRance stayed a MOnarchy.

[Mider T]

Updated OP once again