Neji vs Sasuke

[†_Camorra_†]

Read first.
Sasuke is post time,but doesent have Oro and CS,and the sword either.Other than that they can use everything else.Neji has no restrictions.
Battle distance 10m
Place:the arena of the Chunin Exams(the closed one)

[PisOgPapir]

With 10 metres starting distance, Neji gets absolutely blitz'd.

[†_Camorra_†]

Why,Neji has also tremendous speed,we have seen that Sasuke has amazing movement speed,but Neji has far greater attack speed,so?
And dont forget that the Sauce doesent have his sword

[Esponer]

Neji does not have "tremendous speed" with the sole exception of attack speed in hakke rokujūyonshō, and even that is not nonpareil. Neji was caught in a straightforward, chūnin level attack (suirō) by a mizu bunshin of a shōten of someone on Sasuke's level. We know mizu bunshin have reduced reflexes and attack speed, because Sasuke as a genin was easily able to dispatch twelve of the high jōnin Zabuza's mizu bunshin (the same Zabuza who was able to blitz an only slightly less experienced Sasuke).

We can make a rather convincing argument that a shōten has inferior reflexes by calling on the absurdity of elite jōnin Maito Gai being able to comfortably defeat full chakra, legendary jōnin Kisame with Six Gates, or better yet by Naruto being able to easily catch shōten Itachi with ōdama rasengan. Neji, then, has a reflex speed completely unable to deal with a reduced speed of a reduced speed of someone whose speed is similar to Sasuke.

Neji seems to be around the region of mid-jōnin, which some tend to confuse with legendary jōnin for some reason (à la the constant confusion of Kimimaro's level). Neji is significantly below Sasuke's level here, and Sasuke probably could beat him by attacking at full speed in what we might rightly call a "speedblitz". He'd just use shunshin and the chidori lance a little like he did against Itachi's kage bunshin, and it'd all be over.

The staunchest Neji fans, if not convinced by that, should be by this: Neji does not have movement speed anywhere near as close as Sasuke (if you disagree, demonstrate fast movement speed from Neji and justify it being equal to Sasuke). He also has no way of surviving kirin (if you disagree, best of luck trying to demonstrate that kaiten will save him). End of.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Sasuke could use some skill Sasuke would end (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/03.jpg) this (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/04.jpg) fight (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/05.jpg).
There are alternatives he could use.

[†_Camorra_†]

Neji was caught of guard,like Kakashi vs Zabuza and besides that when he wanted he broke out of the water prison.I must corect something in the OP,the arena from the Chunin Exams is the closed one,Sasuke can't use Kirin.The movement speed is not all there is to it in a fight,attack speed is important to and Sasuke's attack on Naruto in Oro's hideout was caught by Sai.Yeah Sasuke has chidori,but i think that the Kaiten would do the trick against it.Thats my opinion..

[Esponer]

That Neji could release himself from the suirō has no bearing at all on his reflex speed. The point is that he was caught. And caught off guard? That's no excuse at all. There was no decoy, there was no reason at all for him to not be able to dodge that except that he was just not fast enough. Neji was not fast enough to dodge the attack of shōten Kisame's mizu bunshin.

If the problem was that Neji was caught "off guard", then he would be caught just as off guard as Sasuke's shunshin and chidori lance lead to his quick death.

I also doubt a ceiling would stop Sasuke from using kirin, considering that he starts kirin by using katon: gōryūka which can and has destroyed ceilings. Sasuke can easily use kirin here unless you go back and deny him of it because it makes this impossible for anyone to question. Also you don't understand my point about movement speed: if Sasuke chooses to end this with kirin, then all he needs is a movement speed faster than Neji's. Neji can have whatever attack speed any of his fans care to dream up – he can't hit if he can't get close enough to a Sasuke using shunshin who doesn't want to play close range.

If all Sasuke does is run around and use kirin, then he wins. That's the safest argument, though not what he'd actually do, which is just use shunshin once and chidori lance.

Why you mention Sai eludes me – yes, Sai stopped an attack by Sasuke on someone else. That has nothing to do with Neji, you know.

Kaiten should've "done the trick" against the mizu bunshin attacking with suirō, but it didn't for a reason – Neji was not fast enough. He wasn't particularly distracted, he just wasn't fast enough to handle a direct, straightforward, linear attack from a slower version of a slower version of someone who might be as fast as Sasuke.

Munboy Dracule O'Brian illustrated this well (though that he is not permanently banned, on the back of an admin's error, still annoys me). 1 (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/03.jpg),2 (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/04.jpg),3 (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/05.jpg). If you find it hard to argue why Neji could stop this in time with kaiten when faced with the inevitable comparisons between Itachi and Kisame, then there's a good chance that the reason it's so hard is because it's nonsense.

[Maximus]

Sasuke rapes. He has too many weapons. Neji is very one dimensional. If it gets to "that" point, Sharingan will help Sasuke nullify Neji's attacks.

Not to mention, Sasuke has gen-jutsu. You look, You die.

[Esponer]

There's a reason I didn't mention Sasuke's genjutsu, though – I don't think he'd get anywhere with that. As a genin, Neji's chakra control was above most jōnin's. As a jōnin, his chakra control is probably fine-tuned to perfection. With the Byakugan he can also see chakra in immense detail. If Sasuke casts a genjutsu, he won't move his hands, but he will move chakra in his Inner Coils. Neji will know whenever Sasuke casts a genjutsu, and he'll know whenever a genjutsu reaches him. With his chakra control, I can't imagine him not being able to dispel it.

Resisting genjutsu is one area in which Neji is probably up there with the top tier. Probably the only area right now, as he didn't improve as much between part I and part II as Naruto and Sasuke.

[Maximus]

The thing is with such a short distance, Sasuke can use the time it takes for Neji to dispel gen-jutsu(granted it would take less time then most other ninja b.c of his chakra control) to combine Shunshin/Chidori Variants.

.................................................. .........................................
With gen-jutsu u take control of opponents' mind. As a defense, the opponent can stop the flow of chakra and then apply his/her own chakra force to break the gen-jutsu, hence the reason why people do "Kai". We have seen Sasuke fight while he is casting gen-jutsu on user. Unlike most ninja Neji is an expert with chakra control but with Sasuke's speed, it will grant him precious time to land an attack while Neji is busy stopping chakra.

i must say, im not too educated with gen-jutsu stuff. though, this is what my opinion is.

[Esponer]

Hmm, perhaps it could be sufficient as a distraction – throw a paralysing genjutsu, shunshin and then attack with chidori lance. I don't think he'd need to, however, and he probably has better ways of wasting Neji's time.

[Perception]

From this distance Neji wins. If Orochimaru and cursed seal are not helping, then Sasuke probably isn't a big deal. If Sasuke try to speedblitz his, he gets either Hakke Kushou'd or juuken'd


Just somethings I'd like to point out:

-Sasuke without the help of CS and Oro is porobably jounin level, not Kisame's level(which should be Kage-level).

-Plus, there's no proof that Kaiten or Daikaiten can't resist Kirin. There is no proof to either side.

-If people argue that Kirin was called "unavoidable", then they have to remember that kaiten was deemed "absolute defense" .

[Maximus]

From this distance Neji wins. If Orochimaru and cursed seal are not helping, then Sasuke probably isn't a big deal. If Sasuke try to speedblitz his, he gets either Hakke Kushou'd or juuken'd

and what about sharingan? Sasuke will be able to see the attacks from Neji and he can easily counter it by blocking/avoiding or better by using chidori nagashi. Problem is there is little chance that Neji would survive initial speed blitz. Bunch of shunshins with enough distractions(weapons, chidori & variants, snakes, etc) will do the trick.

[Esponer]

Sasuke's greatest powers in Part II have been speed and chidori-type jutsu: Orochimaru's abilities and his Cursed Seal have not been all that important to him at all. Saying that, I cannot see how Neji could in any way keep up with Sasuke's speed, deal with Sasuke's attacks, or land a jūken hit on him.

[Truepotential]

Wow, What a Joke.

Gotta love Neji fans.

Sasuke has proved to be HIGH AKATSUKI LEVEL.

What HAS Neji shown anything even substantially CLOSE to that??

Instead, Neji was caught by a Mizu Bunshin of a Shouten Kisame.

[the box]

Sasuke rapes. He has too many weapons. Neji is very one dimensional. If it gets to "that" point, Sharingan will help Sasuke nullify Neji's attacks.

Not to mention, Sasuke has gen-jutsu. You look, You die.

sharing beat byakugan in taijustu OK :nuts (sarcasm)

no neji wins with ease snice its 10 meters

Wow, What a Joke.

Gotta love Neji fans.

Sasuke has proved to be HIGH AKATSUKI LEVEL.

What HAS Neji shown anything even substantially CLOSE to that??

Instead, Neji was caught by a Mizu Bunshin of a Shouten Kisame.

saskue got PWNED by a little green man with big eye brows:laugh

[Esponer]

the box, what makes you think that Neji could actually gain an advantage over Sasuke in close range? Could you please explain that idea?

And Sasuke was defeated by Part I by Rock Lee, who should not be underestimated on the basis of his appearance (a true Neji fan should take after Neji, who would never perform such a ridiculous underestimation). Since then, Sasuke has become one of the most powerful shinobi in the series and now would not look twice at Rock Lee.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Munboy Dracule O'Brian illustrated this well (though that he is not permanently banned, on the back of an admin's error, still annoys me). 1 (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/03.jpg),2 (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/04.jpg),3 (http://www.islandne.com/online/albums/367/05.jpg). If you find it hard to argue why Neji could stop this in time with kaiten when faced with the inevitable comparisons between Itachi and Kisame, then there's a good chance that the reason it's so hard is because it's nonsense.

I think he could win like that, seeing as Neji's superior Itachi(crow bunshin) didn't see it coming.

Thats a nice thing to say:zaru

[Truepotential]

saskue got PWNED by a little green man with big eye brows


Why are you comparing Wave-country Arc Sasuke to Post-Skip Sasuke?

[Maximus]

-Plus, there's no proof that Kaiten or Daikaiten can't resist Kirin. There is no proof to either side.

-If people argue that Kirin was called "unavoidable", then they have to remember that kaiten was deemed "absolute defense" .

It was called absolute defense by who? TenTen.

The thing is KN0 Naruto's punch was able to do this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/104/14/) much damage to Neji even when Neji was using Kaiten. what happened to the "absolute defense" then? lol

Kaiten can probably repel low level physical attacks but it would be little help against high level elemental attacks.

[the box]

the fact that neji can WTF pwn lee at his fullest and lee is fast

heck faster with gates it takes 5 gates to keep up with neji and he still hasent beatin him 0_0

naruto vs neji is also and example even in KN0 neji could still keep up with him

saskue vs neji

saskue got blitzed over and over and over again

while naruto was in KN0

speed is crap to the byakugan as is tai and gen jutsu you cant beat him a close range

neji can react to a SUPERPOWERD arrow

and the sharingan is crap here neji can instantly cancle gen jutsu and tai jutsu is crap here now you tell me how in any way saskue can survive more that 2 mins in close combate with the sencond most powerful tai jutsu master in the manga

[Sasuke]

Shunshin + chidori lance, stomp. Sasuke's just too fast and at that starting distance Neji is done for.

If by some miracle Neji isn't down and out within the first 5 seconds and manages to put some distance between himself and Sasuke then Kirin splits him in half.

Even with Sasuke restricted like this he's way out of Neji's league.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

Even with Sasuke restricted like this he's way out of Neji's league.

I agree with this.

[Esponer]

-Sasuke without the help of CS and Oro is porobably jounin level, not Kisame's level(which should be Kage-level).
Sasuke without the Cursed Seal and Orochimaru's white snake regeneration powers has a shunshin that can dominate jōnin completely, has attacking jutsu that are fast and powerful enough to kill almost anyone, has genjutsu that can affect legendary jōnin, and can overwhelm a legendary jōnin in his primary element (katon) with his secondary element (also katon). Sasuke, in his base, only jōnin level? That's just a dream.

You're calling someone who took out hundreds of shinobi at once fighting non-lethally only on a jōnin level, or someone who cut up Orochimaru's white snake form with ease (when an elite jōnin couldn't even face him). I sense bias here, because no way is Sasuke in the middle spectrum of jōnin.

The middle spectrum of jōnin couldn't even look at Sasuke without being terrified right now. Like Suigetsu and Jūgo, who are about on Kimimaro's level (mid-jōnin), and so on a similar level with Neji. Sasuke stepped into their fight, blitzed them, caught them with sen'eijashu and bound them with genjutsu in what to them was an instant. That's what Sasuke does to "jōnin level" foes, so don't try to say that's the level he's on.

-Plus, there's no proof that Kaiten or Daikaiten can't resist Kirin. There is no proof to either side.
But proof isn't really necessary to make a case. Also, Neji hasn't shown daikaiten. It should be fairly obvious that kaiten can't tank kirin, when it couldn't even tank a punch from Part I Naruto.

[Shiranui]

the fact that neji can WTF pwn lee at his fullest and lee is fast

heck faster with gates it takes 5 gates to keep up with neji and he still hasent beatin him 0_0

naruto vs neji is also and example even in KN0 neji could still keep up with him

saskue vs neji

saskue got blitzed over and over and over again

while naruto was in KN0

speed is crap to the byakugan as is tai and gen jutsu you cant beat him a close range

neji can react to a SUPERPOWERD arrow

and the sharingan is crap here neji can instantly cancle gen jutsu and tai jutsu is crap here now you tell me how in any way saskue can survive more that 2 mins in close combate with the sencond most powerful tai jutsu master in the manga

You are correct on the fact that Neji has been stated to have defeated Rock Lee. Though not necessarily at his top speed, which would include the use of the Hachimon. If you take a look at the first time Lee used the Fifth Gate Limit, there was no apparent knowledge on Neji's behalf of such a move - infact he was quite astonished (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume10.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12270).

At any rate, this is pure speed not similar to the kind that Sasuke seems to recieve his praise from which is through the use of shunshin. You also appear to make the mistake that this was mentioned to be Post-skip Sasuke, who is much improved from his match with Naruto in his Ichibi form. I would also like to add that upon obtaining the final base form of the sharingan any and all attempts made by Naruto were either blocked or countered. On Neji's behalf, the only form that Naruto required to take on was the KN0, not KN1 that he faced Sasuke with.

Insight to potential attacks is one of the sharingans greatest attributes, and when used in conjunction with the shunshin and Chidori blossoming lance it is nearly impossible for Neji to evade or block at his current level.

[UchihaShinobi]

speed is crap to the byakugan as is tai and gen jutsu you cant beat him a close range

and the sharingan is crap here neji can instantly cancle gen jutsu and tai jutsu is crap here now you tell me how in any way saskue can survive more that 2 mins in close combate with the sencond most powerful tai jutsu master in the manga

btw you forggeting one thing Sasuke is a Ninjutsu lover smile-big

[Maximus]

just to add more to astral's comments...

we have to remember the fact that those battles were never bloodlusted. Not only that Neji didn't have a clue about extreme lotus (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume10.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12257). And we have never seen until what points the battle went on and how the battle was proceeded. Only time I remember Lee battling Neji was here (http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume10.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12243), and some info here. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/84/14/)

[Ryuk]

Neji gets Blitzed.

[†_Camorra_†]

the fact that neji can WTF pwn lee at his fullest and lee is fast

heck faster with gates it takes 5 gates to keep up with neji and he still hasent beatin him 0_0

naruto vs neji is also and example even in KN0 neji could still keep up with him

saskue vs neji

saskue got blitzed over and over and over again

while naruto was in KN0

speed is crap to the byakugan as is tai and gen jutsu you cant beat him a close range

neji can react to a SUPERPOWERD arrow

and the sharingan is crap here neji can instantly cancle gen jutsu and tai jutsu is crap here now you tell me how in any way saskue can survive more that 2 mins in close combate with the sencond most powerful tai jutsu master in the manga

I agree,in a close kombat Sasuke would get his ass kicked prety badly,only one hit with Jyuken and Neji cuts through chakra strings like butter.No chakra flow=no jutstus.On top of that Neji is a master of chakra control and can dispel the gen-jutsu.I believe that Neji would see with the Byakugan when Sasuke is even thinking of making a move,cause all physical movement requires some portion of chakra(life force) like the jutsus and he can therefor counterattack in time.
movement speed-Sasuke>Neji
attack speed-Neji>Sasuke
Byakugan>Sharingan
Ninjutsu-Sasuke>Neji
Gen jutsu-worthless against Neji
tai jutsu overall-draw
hax-Sasuke>Neji-Oro,CS,summons,drugs
there are no weapons in this fight!

[Shiranui]

I don't quite understand the hype that surrounds Neji, especially when his post-skip self appeared to be lesser than that of the Shōten form of Kisame. Whom may be, in actual form, be equal in skill to Sasuke. Plus with the use of shunshin from the range of 40 meters or less I cannot see the Byakugan being able to detect Sasuke's motion. One must not forget the use of Kirin which Neji has no means of defending against.

[Roka]

Sasuke wins this, he just has the right stuff to deal with Neji without any trouble. He can take this fairly quickly if he goes about it the right way.

[Pantera]

I don't quite understand the hype that surrounds Neji, especially when his post-skip self appeared to be lesser than that of the Shōten form of Kisame. Whom may be, in actual form, be equal in skill to Sasuke.

1) Kisame in shouten form is the regular kisame with all of his jutsu and abilities (he just has 30% chakra to work with, not 30% of his power and jutsus) .... so you saying that Kisame in his actual form is equal to sasuke in skill while in his shouten form he doesn't ,makes no sense since his skill is the same in both forms.

2) Neji didn't appear less than kisame, Neji's first attack against Kisame was a sucsses, as he was performing the second attack he was trapped in a water prison ( Kakashi was trapped in a water prison by Zabuza, eventhough Kakashi is stronger than Zabuza .... these things don't mean one is stronger than the other). And when Neji broke out of the prison that even Kakashi couldn't break out of, kisame was already a lost cause thanks to Gai.

Plus with the use of shunshin from the range of 40 meters or less I cannot see the Byakugan being able to detect Sasuke's motion.


1) When a character uses Shunsuin the normal eye looses sight of him not because he dissapears, its simply due to light rays falling on him and then reflecting to the eye and then the brain must change it into imagery so it takes time. ( it doesn't mean a character moves faster than light, it means a character moves faster than the brain's ability to analyze the image.....hence thats why they say some people have sharp eye), while in the byakugan that sees the chakra of the person, there is no light reflected and shit. The person is there and wherever he moves he's detected.

2) If Neji has his barrier jutsu ( the one that make things appear slow) then of course he can detect sasuke and even outrun him there.)

One must not forget the use of Kirin which Neji has no means of defending against.


1) Its true that Neji's Kaiten ( Circular defence) can't defend against chakra attacks, it can only counter physical attacks. However Kirin is an attack of pure natural lightining and not chakra lightning, so practically there is no chakra in the attack, so kaiten can counter Kirin.

2) We have no idea if Neji has more techniques that can defend against kirin since we haven't seen him in any real fight yet.



Lets see all of sasuke's jutsus and how can neji counter it:

Sharingan
1) Sharingan genjutsu .... absolutely useless against the byakugan since the byakugan can only see chakra and there is no eye contact.

2) Sharingan Copying : All of Neji's techniques are a bloodline limit and therefore can't be copied by a sharingan.

Shunsuin
Explained above, and don't forget that Neji is able to keep up with lee's spped if not faster.

Chidori
If sasuke gets close enough to be hit he will get close enough for Neji to either cancel it using jyuuken (since what is made of cahkra can be destroyed by chakra) or attack him in return using his closing chakra pores attack.

Chidori Sword

Again Jyuuken works here

Chidori Needles
Jyuuken again or simply evade them since they are more less like kunais.

Katons

Needs no answering

Kirin

Read above.



Neji is the natural enemy for Sasuke, and remeber all what neji needs to end the fight is get close once to sasuke.

[FoxSpirit]

Sasuke wins with his incredible speed and abilities :amuse

[Cyphon]

I have always said this would be a good fight, and with the lack of CS2 Sasuke loses a very important weapon to him. Most people here are highly underrating Neji... i am not saying Neji wins for sure... but there is definitely underrating. I understand the Kisame fight argument..but he was caught off guard..end of story, every fighter can be caught off guard everyone knows Neji is a genius and should not judge him based solely off of that one fight.

Sasuke has great speed, but Neji being a taijutsu master also has great defensive and offensive reaction speed. I don't think there would be any kind of "speed blitzing" going on (a term way overly used in Sasuke arguments...that is a tard argument and has no basis)...point out one fight where he just killed an opponent off of a speed blitz...you can't so don't use the argument. Neji also knows better than to underestimate Sasuke at all, knowing he is a considered a genius like himself.

I see this fight becoming a great taijutsu battle. Neji not knowing about Chidori Nagashi may get hit with it once, and if he makes it through that it should turn out to be a good battle. I would say he would be able to just release chakra out of his body to block out the chidori nagashi. Sharingan should be able to slow down the perception of Neji's basic taijutsu, but if he caught Sasuke in the 64 hit thing (sorry i don't know the name) i don't think Sasuke can keep up. I still think since we haven't seen much ninjutsu from Neji the advantage still goes to Sasuke... I'll give this fight to Sasuke 7/10... Neji is a genius, he is not a pushover as most are making it seem...depending on the situation he could pull this off.

[Vangelis]

Hard to say, I will say Sasuke.

[reddogs52]

okay nejis rotation didnt fully block narutos 0 tailed punch, narutos 0 tailed punch is weaker then a chidori, kirin is stronger then chidori errm....kirin would win this, without kirin sauske can still get through rotation since sauskes chidori matched narutos 1 tailed rasengan which is way stronger then 0 tailed punch :D sauske is way faster and then there is the summons lol, neji has good eye vision that is basicly an early warning system to gen-jutsu and he has good defence against snake bites and shuriken lol

[Raiden]

You know, far too many restrictions are being placed on Sasuke in all honesty. Thos abilities and his weapon play a vital part in what Sasuke learned and mastered over the time skip. Even so, I still think he would win due to speed, his deadly taijutsu, and chidori variations. No doubt that Neji would impose quite a threat though.

[Rurushu]

If they are far apart,then Neji obviously has an advantage here.

[reddogs52]

to me it seems ppl are over rating both ppl, neji's rotation cant block kirin, susano didnt even block kirin fully so what makes you think that rotation will? sauske besides kirin isnt all that good either

[Dark Uchiha]

i see sasuke taking this, sasuke has more working for him than neji does, mostly more chakra to expend and sharingan for battle prowess.

[Kieuseru]

Sasuke has great speed, but Neji being a taijutsu master also has great defensive and offensive reaction speed. I don't think there would be any kind of "speed blitzing" going on (a term way overly used in Sasuke arguments...that is a tard argument and has no basis)...point out one fight where he just killed an opponent off of a speed blitz...you can't so don't use the argument. Neji also knows better than to underestimate Sasuke at all, knowing he is a considered a genius like himself.


How is saying that Sasuke blitzs a tard argument? We've seen him blitz Yamato, Sakura, Sai, and Naruto. Than he blitzed Deidara. People that say that go by canon evidence, we know that Sasuke is extremely fast, and we know that Neji doesn't have that great of a reaction speed. (as seen by him getting caught in Kisame's water clone's jutsu.)
You can say that Neji was caught off guard, but than if he is caught off guard by someone he thinks is Akatsuki level, than he is going to get caught off guard by Sasuke.

[Truepotential]

:facepalm

I am still in involuntary shock that people think Neji has somewhat of a chance.

Sasuke doesn't need Sharingan, nor genjutsu, definitely not Kirin.

Sasuke is EXPONENTIALLY faster than Neji. Not only can he keep with with Itachi, Deidara exclaimed at his speed.

What did Neji do?

Oh ya... He slow enough to be caught by a Mizu Bunshin of a Shouten Kisame, WHILE he was distracted by Gai.

Stop overrating Neji's defense, Chunin Exam Kn0 Naruto's punch raped that defense.

Chidori is a lightning jutsu purposely made for cutting and piercing through defense..

Neji's defense doesn't mean shit.

Also, geniuses mean nothing in this manga, Naruto a failure created FRS a jutsu not even geniuses like Kakashi nor Minato could create.

[the box]

How is saying that Sasuke blitzs a tard argument? We've seen him blitz Yamato, Sakura, Sai, and Naruto. Than he blitzed Deidara. People that say that go by canon evidence, we know that Sasuke is extremely fast, and we know that Neji doesn't have that great of a reaction speed. (as seen by him getting caught in Kisame's water clone's jutsu.)
You can say that Neji was caught off guard, but than if he is caught off guard by someone he thinks is Akatsuki level, than he is going to get caught off guard by Sasuke.

neji has the best reaction speed WTF he reacted to kidos arrow at lvl 2 who would WTF pwn saskue from a distance

[Kieuseru]

neji has the best reaction speed WTF he reacted to kidos arrow at lvl 2 who would WTF pwn saskue from a distance

Kisame would disagree.
As for Kidomaru's arrow, Neji got hit by it. He didn't dodge it, he focused chakra into the Byukgan's blind spot, and deflected it that way. That has nothing to do with reaction speed.

[Maximus]

I have always said this would be a good fight, and with the lack of CS2 Sasuke loses a very important weapon to him. CS only grants better access to his "reserve" chakra. but loosing Oro will also grant him more chakra.

Most people here are highly underrating Neji... i am not saying Neji wins for sure... but there is definitely underrating.
How is he being underrated?

I understand the Kisame fight argument..but he was caught off guard...end of story every fighter can be caught off guard everyone knows Neji is a genius and should not judge him based solely off of that one fight.
Neji was caught off guard? lol
him, Lee and TenTen were clearly charging at Kisame. That's not being caught off guard. Neji would be one of the hardest opponent to catch off guard b.c he has byakugan and it's ability to see in 360 degrees and to see great distances(1km?).

Sasuke has great speed, but Neji being a taijutsu master also has great defensive and offensive reaction speed.
absolutely.

I don't think there would be any kind of "speed blitzing" going on (a term way overly used in Sasuke arguments...that is a tard argument and has no basis)...point out one fight where he just killed an opponent off of a speed blitz...you can't so don't use the argument. Neji also knows better than to underestimate Sasuke at all, knowing he is a considered a genius like himself.
I don't think it's thatbad of an argument. You gotta understand the fact that Sasuke has many distractions going on his side. Few involving onslaught of weapons(raiton infused and with explosive charms if u like) and chidori needles that can be pinpointed. Not only that he has very good distraction in wind mill (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/04/) shuriken. To add on, he has Katon (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/227/11/) Housenka (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/227/12/) (notice how in air naruto was caught for an attack. now imagine that Sasuke having advanced shunshin would equal quick death). Similarly here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/56/09/) and here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/56/10/). Sasuke has been known to use distraction strategies to land quick blows. With a finishing move such as chidori or chidori lance. it just makes a quick battle.

With onslaught of such attacks Neji will need some way to defend it. Kaiten is good guess but really, how many Kaiten he is gonna do? It would quite a waste of chakra. Raiton infused weapons and wind mill shuriken gives Sasuke very good distraction ability to put keep Neji busy for needed time to land shunshin/chidori/variants blow.


I see this fight becoming a great taijutsu battle.
It's hard for me to see battle going that far and if gets to that point, why would Sasuke choose to stay short range? He can summon snakes.
.....and I don't even see Sasuke loosing in short range b.c of Sharingan/CN/snakes (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/359/02/). Not to mention, Sasuke is also proficient with Tai-jutsu and speed(not shunshin, but weightless Lee speed).


Neji not knowing about Chidori Nagashi may get hit with it once, and if he makes it through that it should turn out to be a good battle.
I don't see a reason why he can get through it. CN is not just a charge effecting what a body part that is about to touch Sasuke but it actually wraps around the whole object. Seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/362/05/) and here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/). CN is very lethal defense/counter attack that instantly paralyzes opponents.


I would say he would be able to just release chakra out of his body to block out the chidori nagashi.
I don't see that happening. Not just for CN but for any of Sasuke's chidori variants for that matter. Raiton has is very efficient at piercing. KN0(naruto wrapped around kyuubi chakra) was able to do this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/104/14/) to Neji even when Neji was releasing chakra(w/ his kaiten).

Sharingan should be able to slow down the perception of Neji's basic taijutsu, but if he caught Sasuke in the 64 hit thing (sorry i don't know the name) i don't think Sasuke can keep up.
it would be very hard for Sasuke to get caught up in Neji's gentle fist fighting style. Sasuke's sharingan easily saw through KN1's attacks and he was able to avoid/block/counter attack.

[Cyphon]

CS only grants better access to his "reserve" chakra. but loosing Oro will also grant him more chakra.

I am not really worried about its exact effects, my point was just that it was a very important weapon for him

How is he being underrated?

He is being very underrated...this would not be as quick a victory as everyone has made it sound and he is also a lot better than people are making him from the Kisame fight

Neji was caught off guard? lol
him, Lee and TenTen were clearly charging at Kisame. That's not being caught off guard. Neji would be one of the hardest opponent to catch off guard b.c he has byakugan and it's ability to see in 360 degrees and to see great distances(1km?).

I was saying he was caught off guard by that attack, and in a way even though they were attacking they were still caught off guard b/c they thought they had the clear advantage..so they were not expecting what happened next


absolutely.


I don't think it's thatbad of an argument. You gotta understand the fact that Sasuke has many distractions going on his side. Few involving onslaught of weapons(raiton infused and with explosive charms if u like) and chidori needles that can be pinpointed. Not only that he has very good distraction in wind mill (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/04/) shuriken. To add on, he has Katon (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/227/11/) Housenka (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/227/12/) (notice how in air naruto was caught for an attack. now imagine that Sasuke having advanced shunshin would equal quick death). Similarly here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/56/09/) and here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/56/10/). Sasuke has been known to use distraction strategies to land quick blows. With a finishing move such as chidori or chidori lance. it just makes a quick battle.

Any weapons attacks can either be blocked by Neji weapons or Kaiten. And Neji is smart enough to know that as soon as he finished the whirl Sasuke would probably be coming...so he would be ready. And also from my understanding when he uses Shunshin he kind of disappears from opponents vision from moving so fast...which would not happen vs. Neji b/c he would still see the chakra moving.

With onslaught of such attacks Neji will need some way to defend it. Kaiten is good guess but really, how many Kaiten he is gonna do? It would quite a waste of chakra. Raiton infused weapons and wind mill shuriken gives Sasuke very good distraction ability to put keep Neji busy for needed time to land shunshin/chidori/variants blow.

He wouldn't have to do that many Kaitens b/c Sasuke wouldn't have an endless amount of weapons (though he does carry a lot), but a big portion of those would be thrown all at once (like all the shurikens thrown at Itachi). Also it seems that Kaiten doesn't put all that much of a strain on Neji's chakra. Also after Sasuke's first weapon attempt failed i doubt he would just stand there and keep throwing weapons


It's hard for me to see battle going that far and if gets to that point, why would Sasuke choose to stay short range? He can summon snakes.
.....and I don't even see Sasuke loosing in short range b.c of Sharingan/CN/snakes (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/359/02/). Not to mention, Sasuke is also proficient with Tai-jutsu and speed(not shunshin, but weightless Lee speed).

Sasuke would probably not use snake summons vs Neji.. i can't imagine he would feel the need. Plus as i said before that is not Sasuke's particular style when fighting. I agree he may not stay short range, but it would be from him either using CS2 (not in this particular case since it was banned), or standing back using ninjutsu. As for the taijutsu and speed i would still give a slight edge to Neji...since that seems to be all that team really does...of course sharingan would probably nullify that edge and make it even.

I don't see a reason why he can get through it. CN is not just a charge effecting what a body part that is about to touch Sasuke but it actually wraps around the whole object. Seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/362/05/) and here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/). CN is very lethal defense/counter attack that instantly paralyzes opponents.

I understand its effectiveness but i think since Neji has great chakra control and can release it from any part of his body, he would be able to wrap a controlled chakra protection around his body to negate the effect


I don't see that happening. Not just for CN but for any of Sasuke's chidori variants for that matter. Raiton has is very efficient at piercing. KN0(naruto wrapped around kyuubi chakra) was able to do this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/104/14/) to Neji even when Neji was releasing chakra(w/ his kaiten).

That is KN Naruto though...which is a different level than regular Sasuke. And Naruto timed it just perfect. That is actually a favorable argument for Neji b/c he was able to at least partially negate a KN0 Naruto who in that form was arguably the strongest Genin. And that was when Neji was still a genin...with his training over the years i am sure it has become a much better technique.


it would be very hard for Sasuke to get caught up in Neji's gentle fist fighting style. Sasuke's sharingan easily saw through KN1's attacks and he was able to avoid/block/counter attack.

I can agree here... i think it would definitely be hard...but it could happen, and if it did i think he would be in trouble from the speed of the 128 and greater hit combos.

[bacon753951]

Sasuke lost to rock. ZROck lost to neji.
Neji>rock>sasuke

Just kidding. BUt neji would win. Sasuke is useless without cs and oro. He still has the sharingan but genjustu probably wont work against neji. So he lost all he has. Sasuke gets raped.

Tell me. WHat can sasuke do without the sharingan,cs, and oro? (besides pnj)

[Maximus]

I was saying he was caught off guard by that attack, and in a way even though they were attacking they were still caught off guard b/c they thought they had the clear advantage..so they were not expecting what happened next
if that's ur definition then
no one expects anything in battle.
i guess then everyone is constantly getting caught off guard?


Any weapons attacks can either be blocked by Neji weapons or Kaiten. And Neji is smart enough to know that as soon as he finished the whirl Sasuke would probably be coming...so he would be ready. And also from my understanding when he uses Shunshin he kind of disappears from opponents vision from moving so fast...which would not happen vs. Neji b/c he would still see the chakra moving.
raiton infused weapons won't be blocked by Neji's weapon. If Neji isn't careful he can suffer severe damage just b.c of weapons. Even in Kaiten whirl Sasuke can do damage with chidori variants.

it wouldn't matter if he is able to see the chakra or not...

shunshin is body flicker if the eyes can't see the body itself wat's good is it seeing chakra for this perticular matter?

point is, if Neji can't see him, then seeing his chakra won't matter. b.c body chakra travel at same speed and if his eyes can't see one then he won't see the other coming at high speed.


He wouldn't have to do that many Kaitens b/c Sasuke wouldn't have an endless amount of weapons (though he does carry a lot), but a big portion of those would be thrown all at once (like all the shurikens thrown at Itachi).
and why would Sasuke do that? if he thinks with Kaiten weapons(w.o raiton) are being repelled he wouldn't just keep on throwing them all at once. that would be common sense.

Also it seems that Kaiten doesn't put all that much of a strain on Neji's chakra. Also after Sasuke's first weapon attempt failed i doubt he would just stand there and keep throwing weapons

again...
it;s about distractions....

Neji is not gonna do kaiten at every 10 weapons sasuke throws he will block it, dodge or or something to reserve chakra. with distractions(weapons, katons, chidori needles), sasuke can buy out time to do shunshin/chidori variants attack. remember, at short distance, it would take tiny amount of time to pull that off with his shunshin.

Plus as i said before that is not Sasuke's particular style when fighting.
he has clearly used snakes when in need. vs Deidara he can't use snakes for long range offense due to Deidara's ability to blow stuff up. snake would be very less mobile and it would easily die vs flying bombs which would result in waste of chakra.


As for the taijutsu and speed i would still give a slight edge to Neji...since that seems to be all that team really does...i don't think it's too effective to judge from that point of view. Neji was in a team where iron fist style was prefered but on his own he learned gentle fist style and used it very effectively in battle, something totally different from Iron fist style. and i can't give him the edge in speed(assuming ur talkin about base speed not shunshin speed) b.c he has never shown to be that type of a fighter. Sasuke has shown Lee's weightless speed. I guess we can assume he has improved in that speed as well if other stuff similar to that is being assumed.

I understand its effectiveness but i think since Neji has great chakra control and can release it from any part of his body, he would be able to wrap a controlled chakra protection around his body to negate the effect

there was a reason why i said Raiton is very good at piercing. Elemental chakra are better overall compared to regular chakra which Neji is expert at. Neji's protection did little against KN0 punch and it severely damaged him even in Kaiten(use of chakra to repel attacks).
That is KN Naruto though...which is a different level than regular Sasuke. And Naruto timed it just perfect.

I never mentioned about Sasuke punching Neji straight up while in Kaiten. Obviously Sasuke would be repelled...but i was mentioning raiton+Sasuke.

athere was no perfect timing...Naruto was straight up charging Neji, w.o use of distractions. Neji clearly noticed him and did Kaiten.

That is actually a favorable argument for Neji b/c he was able to at least partially negate a KN0 Naruto who in that form was arguably the strongest Genin. And that was when Neji was still a genin...with his training over the years i am sure it has become a much better technique.
Naruto never went all out. What all out naruto at that point was against shukaku Garra. Neji was defeated by just KN0's raw power.

Pretimeskip Sasuke was able to defeat Naruto where his chidori hit KN1's rasengan and still lethally damaged Naruto.

[UchihaShinobi]

Tell me. WHat can sasuke do without the sharingan,cs, and oro? (besides pnj)
well...he still have his sharingan,he lost only oro and cs.
without oro and cs hmmmm...genjutsu,summons(snakes),chidori variants,shunshin,katons,and all the stuff that he learned from oro by copying.

[PisOgPapir]

Guys, guys, why are we arguing this`?

The starting distance is a goddamn 10 metres. Sasuke has shown a shunshin, that's atleast that far, combined with the fact his chidori lance is five metres long, he's either going to kill Neji from the start, or force him into a Kaiten. And if Neji first goes kaiten, then it becomes a war of atrittion, seeing as he cannot flee. A war sasuke is going to win.

Oh, and ppl saying Jyuuken cancels out the chidori lance, or a chidori, LOL AT YOU!

[Gentle Fist]

um 10m apart????? If that is the case then Sasuke is already dead

Sasuke is a superior overall ninja right now yes, but being that close to the Hyuuga prodigy is pretty much insta death. Neji is no slouch, so any advantage like that will prove to be the difference

[PisOgPapir]

Sorry, but are you stupid? Neji has to get CLOSE to Sasuke to even hit him. Sasuke can attack effortlessly from 5metres distance. A shunshin, which i'd like to see someone show me neji, having burst speed, equal to, and a chidori lance, kills neji.

Please, stop overrating him.

[Esponer]

Focus.

Sasuke decides the range. Neji has no demonstrations of fast movement speed, whereas Sasuke has (one of) the best movement speed in the manga due to shunshin. From the beginning, Sasuke's shunshin chooses the range and Neji cannot change that.

You may want Neji to be extremely powerful and able to fight Sasuke, but that does not mean that he is. Part II made it extremely clear that Neji is not on that level, and that indeed he is a mid-jōnin at best. He did not have the speed to deal with a straightforward attack from a mizu bunshin of a shōten of Kisame. All attempts so far to justify this have failed to answer the very first posts about this: read and reply to the first two paragraphs of this post (http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=14680542&postcount=4).

Neji has showed us no reason to believe that he can handle Sasuke at any range. He cannot respond fast enough to keep up with Sasuke's attacks, he cannot change the range that Sasuke chooses and he can only attempt to fight at one range (touch range).

Neji is not a poor shinobi, but he is leagues below Sasuke right now and no amount of wishing for him to be able to touch Sasuke will let him be able to fight Sasuke in close range combat.

[Maximus]

Sasuke wins in all range. It's that simple.

All he needs is Sharingan and Nagashi. Sharigan for taijutsu defense and Nagashi for counter attack.

[The World]

[it would be very hard for Sasuke to get caught up in Neji's gentle fist fighting style. Sasuke's sharingan easily saw through KN1's attacks and he was able to avoid/block/counter attack.
last time i remembered he was getting stomped by KN1 naruto and had to use CS2.

[Maximus]

[
last time i remembered he was getting stomped by KN1 naruto and had to use CS2.

KN1 is stronger then Neji.

In bloodlusted battle, importance wise, chakra is something on a lesser side b.c each opponent are doing their best to finish off the other.

Sasuke still can pull out decent amount of chakra even w.o use of CS. He also lost Oro. So, he can use the "that" chakra for further battle use

[Perception]

You people keep saying that Sasuke can speedblitz Neji... look, unless you people don't believe in Kishi and his databooks, Sasuke can't. Neji's base speed pre-timeskip is 4/5, someone as fast as this can't be speedblitzed, I think. Furthermore, Neji was caught by Kisame like he was a genin, yes, it was naive, but that doesn't mean he is slow. How can one dodge in the air(unless you have kage bunshin or some jutsu to save you). That has nothing to do with speed.

@genius24: Kaiten wasn't completed when naruto stroke, since he was to close Neji could only make up it's frontal part(at least it seems so). A complete kaiten has never been broken(it was stopped by Kidomaru's webs, but Kido s surely one of a kind). And Neji's kaiten back then could be not very developed, since he learned it by himself, and Hiashi could displey a much more fearsome version of it. Kaiten is as much a perfect defense(as Tenten said and GAARA noted) as kirin is a unavoidable attack(which, to this dated, has never hit). IMO, Neji wins, but it could be a tough fight.

[Esponer]

First, the Databook statistics are clearly not all that important. But further to that, there really is no substance to the argument that someone with a "4" in those statistics cannot be completely surpassed in speed. What do you think happens if you put Kimimaro in close quarters with Kurenai, out of curiosity? Bear in mind that Kurenai has a "4" in speed and has actually demonstrated better movement speed than Neji. Also consider that Gai was able to "speedblitz" Kisame, who has a speed rating clearly far above "4". Really, there is no substance to your argument.

Neji was not just naïve in being caught by Kisame. He was also not quick enough, not at all. He was not fast enough to deal with a mizu bunshin of a shōten of Kisame. He did not have time to use kaiten, or hakke kūshō, or to fight back with jūken or the deadly hakke rokujūyonshō. You cannot escape the fact that Neji is not as fast as Sasuke. And if you are so keen to dodge the possibility that Neji could be so surpassed in speed as to allow Sasuke to do a chidori lance-equivalent of what a mizu bunshin of a shōten clone of Kisame did, then at least realise that Neji is inferior in speed, inferior in skill and has no way of harming Sasuke.

How to dodge in the air? How indeed: "unless you have some jutsu to save you", you cannot. But Neji had such jutsu – in fact, he does not have a single jutsu he could not have used in that situation to destroy the mizu bunshin. He just didn't have any time because it was too fast for him, because by comparison to the top tier Neji is sluggish. Kisame's mizu bunshin used an attack at close range against Neji, and Neji thought "What?!" and was caught by it. He's just a slow brat if you compare him to the very best.

And do you really think there's any weight at all in suggesting that kaiten can stop kirin because "kaiten has never been broken" and "kirin… has never hit"? Kirin has hit – it was defended against by an even higher level technique. Kaiten has never had to face a high-level attack. All we have to go by is that it was overpowered by a punch. And this "kaiten wasn't completed" nonsense is just that: nonsense.

The whole point of kaiten is to begin as the attack makes physical contact. Read the description of the jutsu again – that is what kaiten is. Deflecting ranged attacks while already spinning is an aside, but the main point of kaiten is to defend an attack that has touched you but not yet transferred its momentum to you (not yet hurt you). You can't say "It wasn't complete, it doesn't count!" when it met all the conditions of kaiten.

And kaiten blocking kirin? Trying to imagine Neji having time to start up kaiten in response to kirin is a bit hard to imagine, as is Sasuke even risking slamming kirin down while Neji uses kaiten. Not that there's any fear in a small whirl of chakra stopping an attack that levels a hill and could incinerate a bos summon. Kaiten is nowhere close to being as much a "perfect defence" as kirin is an "unavoidable attack".

[RAVE Master]

That Neji could release himself from the suirō has no bearing at all on his reflex speed. The point is that he was caught. And caught off guard? That's no excuse at all. There was no decoy, there was no reason at all for him to not be able to dodge that except that he was just not fast enough. Neji was not fast enough to dodge the attack of shōten Kisame's mizu bunshin.…

We all know that Neji lost due to PnJ and with proper utilization of his skills Neji would rapestomp Sasuke into the ground.

[Esponer]

Would you explain that? Neji did not die, so I really do not understand your comment at all. Also, I made an edit on your post to reduce the quantity of quoted text.

[Truepotential]

You people keep saying that Sasuke can speedblitz Neji... look, unless you people don't believe in Kishi and his databooks, Sasuke can't. Neji's base speed pre-timeskip is 4/5, someone as fast as this can't be speedblitzed, I think. Furthermore, Neji was caught by Kisame like he was a genin, yes, it was naive, but that doesn't mean he is slow. How can one dodge in the air(unless you have kage bunshin or some jutsu to save you). That has nothing to do with speed.

@genius24: Kaiten wasn't completed when naruto stroke, since he was to close Neji could only make up it's frontal part(at least it seems so). A complete kaiten has never been broken(it was stopped by Kidomaru's webs, but Kido s surely one of a kind). And Neji's kaiten back then could be not very developed, since he learned it by himself, and Hiashi could displey a much more fearsome version of it. Kaiten is as much a perfect defense(as Tenten said and GAARA noted) as kirin is a unavoidable attack(which, to this dated, has never hit). IMO, Neji wins, but it could be a tough fight.

Databooks don't mean shit.

It stated Tayuya had a 5 in genjutsu so she has genjutsu on par with Itachi?

It was stated as absolute defense by worthless fodder nin.

Kirin would've raped Itachi if it wasn't for his powerful barrier.

Neji's defense couldn't tank a Pre-Kn0 punch, chidori rapes through it.

[PisOgPapir]

Don't underestimate kn0 punches, they tore through one of haku's ice mirrors. I'd say that's mighty more impressive than what Kirin did :pek

[Shodai]

Neji uses Hakke Kushou and suprises Sasuke because Neji scouted him from 10 KM away. Sasuke's heart explodes before he even registers Neji's presence.

[Perception]

First, the Databook statistics are clearly not all that important*. But further to that, there really is no substance to the argument that someone with a "4" in those statistics cannot be completely surpassed in speed**. What do you think happens if you put Kimimaro in close quarters with Kurenai, out of curiosity? Bear in mind that Kurenai has a "4" in speed and has actually demonstrated better movement speed than Neji. Also consider that Gai was able to "speedblitz" Kisame, who has a speed rating clearly far above "4"***. Really, there is no substance to your argument.

Neji was not just naïve in being caught by Kisame. He was also not quick enough, not at all. He was not fast enough to deal with a mizu bunshin of a shōten of Kisame. He did not have time to use kaiten, or hakke kūshō, or to fight back with jūken or the deadly hakke rokujūyonshō. You cannot escape the fact that Neji is not as fast as Sasuke****. And if you are so keen to dodge the possibility that Neji could be so surpassed in speed as to allow Sasuke to do a chidori lance-equivalent of what a mizu bunshin of a shōten clone of Kisame did, then at least realise that Neji is inferior in speed, inferior in skill and has no way of harming Sasuke*****.

How to dodge in the air? How indeed: "unless you have some jutsu to save you", you cannot. But Neji had such jutsu – in fact, he does not have a single jutsu he could not have used in that situation to destroy the mizu bunshin. He just didn't have any time because it was too fast for him, because by comparison to the top tier Neji is sluggish. Kisame's mizu bunshin used an attack at close range against Neji, and Neji thought "What?!" and was caught by it. He's just a slow brat if you compare him to the very best******.


That was quite the wall of text. I'll answer the rest of your post later. I used * to mark which part of the text I'm talkking about.


* That's quite wrong. The databooks were written by Kishimoto, it's clearly what he thinks of his characters and of his narutoverse. Why can't he explain further what he thinks of the Narutoverse? I don't see why doubt it(if you don't agree, it's his word against yours).

**He can be surpassed, Sasuke IS, IMO, faster than him. Just not by much, and not enough to SPEEDBLITZ Neji.

***Gai had 6 gates opened. No contest then.

****Actually, Juuken is much more deadly yhan Hakke Rokujuuyonshou. His 64 hit strike intend to disable(and of course, harm a little) his opponent. Juuken, in contrast, has the power to kill with one touch(see how many times did Neji touches Kidomaru to kill him). Then again, capturing the enemy is much better than killing him in many situations. Also, I do believe Sasuke is faster than Neji, just not by much.

*****No way of harming Sasuke? Are you serious? If you are, no harm intended, but you're talking nonsense.

******According to your logic here in your paragraph, not only Neji, but Lee - the one that speedblitzed Sasuke a while ago - is slow. Lee, like Neji, was caught by the Water Prison Jutsu. Are you calling Lee "sluggish" also? Check, mate.
That's why I said, being caught in middle air is not a matter of speed.

Later on I'll answer the rest. Don't take me wrong, I am not anti-Sasuke, I just think that chances are that Neji will win in a fight.

[PisOgPapir]

*****No way of harming Sasuke? Are you serious? If you are, no harm intended, but you're talking nonsense.


In that case, please explain to me, how does he hurt Sasuke?

[Perception]

Databooks don't mean shit.

It stated Tayuya had a 5 in genjutsu so she has genjutsu on par with Itachi?


No, they do man. Even if you say so, it's your opinion of Naruto's characters agains Kishimoto's opinion.

Also, why can't Tayuya be on the same level as Itachi in genjutsu? The only thing Itachi has that puts Tayuya to shame is his Sharingan, which specializes in genjutsu(and to our knowledge, she has no Kekkei Genkai to help her out). If Kishimoto said she is at the same level, then she is.

[Perception]

In that case, please explain to me, how does he hurt Sasuke?

OK. One case scenario. It's quite idealized, I know, but there it goes.

- Battle starts. -

1- Neji uses Hakke Kushou. (to my knowledge, Sasuke can't avoid it, nor get where Neji is faster than he can use Kushou)

2- Sasuke falls. Takes his time to get up and recompose himself, but is left OPEN(Kushou seems to be excellent to create openings).

3- Meanwhile, Neji approaches quickly and juuken him, or (because Neji is a nice guy and don't want to kill anybody) puts him in his Hakke Rokujuuyonshou field and closes his tenketsus. Neji Won.

- Battle over -

[PisOgPapir]

That's just flawed on so many levels. There are several tiers, nobody can refuse that. If you'd go into the battledome and say, "TAYUYA OWNS KAKASHI WITH GENJUTSU!" People would laugh at you. Very hard, and very long.

If we accept that, then Lee suddenly is gais equal in taijutsu? Oh, and let's not forget Kabuto can cast Itachi-level genjutsu. (which Temari, and Kankuro, and Kakashi, and Sakura, and Shikamaru, could resist. The new anti-genjutsu squad? :pek)

It just doesn't work out that way. It's flawed thinking.

---

And Sasuke getting hit by Hakke Kusho, comeon. If you agree to Sasuke being faster than Neji, you've esentially undermined your own argument.

Neji fought a weaker version of himself. If he took several minutes, or more, to kill this person, why would he do that? If Sasuke would get hit by a hakke kushou, and neji is slower, wouldn't he just be able to spam a few Hakke kushous and get it done with?

With leads me to my second point; Hakke kushou, sucks.
It did what? Push Kisame? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/07/) Wow, what an awesome jutsu.
Even if it does Hit sasuke, he's not going to fall down, and even if he did, Neji still needs to hold a 5metres distance, and he cannot touch Sasuke, because he's going to get electrocuted either way.

[Perception]

That's just flawed on so many levels. There are several tiers, nobody can refuse that. If you'd go into the battledome and say, "TAYUYA OWNS KAKASHI WITH GENJUTSU!" People would laugh at you. Very hard, and very long.

If we accept that, then Lee suddenly is gais equal in taijutsu? Oh, and let's not forget Kabuto can cast Itachi-level genjutsu. (which Temari, and Kankuro, and Kakashi, and Sakura, and Shikamaru, could resist. The new anti-genjutsu squad? :pek)

It just doesn't work out that way. It's flawed thinking.

---

And Sasuke getting hit by Hakke Kusho, comeon. If you agree to Sasuke being faster than Neji, you've esentially undermined your own argument.

Neji fought a weaker version of himself. If he took several minutes, or more, to kill this person, why would he do that? If Sasuke would get hit by a hakke kushou, and neji is slower, wouldn't he just be able to spam a few Hakke kushous and get it done with?

With leads me to my second point; Hakke kushou, sucks.
It did what? Push Kisame? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/07/) Wow, what an awesome jutsu.
Even if it does Hit sasuke, he's not going to fall down, and even if he did, Neji still needs to hold a 5metres distance, and he cannot touch Sasuke, because he's going to get electrocuted either way.

I respect your opinion, but think about it. You may think Kushou is weak, but I think it's one of the most useful jutsus EVER CREATED. Not because it kills or cripples, or even cause a great dameage, but because it creates an OPENING. Think about it. If Neji had a Kage Bunshin positioned behind Kisame(he's a jounin, he may have learnt it since it's so useful), the KB could just juuken Kisame and battle would be over. OR, he could just go towards Kisame quickly and try to kill him while he's open, but that is a little more risky.

Also, about Kakashi vs. Tayuya genjutsu, Kakashi will win, but not because he has better natural capabilities in genjutsu(well, maybe he has). Mainly, it's because of the sharingan. With it, a person with 2 in genjutsu may be able to beat Tayuya.

[Kieuseru]

No, they do man. Even if you say so, it's your opinion of Naruto's characters agains Kishimoto's opinion.
The data books were written pre skip. They don't mean anything now. Also, they aren't that specific. There can be two people that are 4 in speed, but one of them can be significantly faster.
Also, why can't Tayuya be on the same level as Itachi in genjutsu? The only thing Itachi has that puts Tayuya to shame is his Sharingan, which specializes in genjutsu(and to our knowledge, she has no Kekkei Genkai to help her out). If Kishimoto said she is at the same level, then she is.
:facepalm
If you are seriously saying that Tayuya and Itachi are on the same level in genjutsu than it's pointless arguing with you.
It goes like this Manga>databook>anime When something in the databook goes against what's in the manga, we should trust the manga first. We've seen things in the databook that contradict the manga.

[PisOgPapir]

Genjutsu is for overall skill, included the Sharingan. If it wasn't, Itachi wouldn't be on top 5, and neither would Sasuke. Genjutsu = Measure of overall capabillity in that field, including Kekke Genkai, or anything that contributes.

And Kabuto standing up to Itachi in genjutsu = Fail. It really doesn't work that way.

Hakke Kusho, MIGHT BE, able to create an opening, if Neji is (very) lucky (and assuming it would hit, which i very much doubt). But He still has nothing to use the opening for, he cannot touch him, withless he wants to be electrocuted (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/04/), which is going to leave Neji open to a chidori lance.

Neji has no way to win.

[Munboy Dracule O'Brian]

No, they do man. Even if you say so, it's your opinion of Naruto's characters agains Kishimoto's opinion.

Also, why can't Tayuya be on the same level as Itachi in genjutsu? The only thing Itachi has that puts Tayuya to shame is his Sharingan, which specializes in genjutsu(and to our knowledge, she has no Kekkei Genkai to help her out). If Kishimoto said she is at the same level, then she is.

Itachi is a Kage level Genjutsu specialist and Tayuya is a Chunin level Genjutsu specialist, see the gap, if you do then you will know why Tayuya can't be on the same level.

[Maximus]

@genius24: Kaiten wasn't completed when naruto stroke, since he was to close Neji could only make up it's frontal part(at least it seems so)
No look here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/104/09/). You clearly see a circle around Neji's feet due to Kaiten. And he also "says" kaiten in top panel.

And Neji's kaiten back then could be not very developed, since he learned it by himself
lol stop tryin to forcifully get ur point across...

Neji's Kaiten was completely fine. With that Kaiten he repelled Naruto the first time he showed it. The thing is, what more force Kaiten can be broken. Kishi showed us that against KN0, the first form of Kyuubi and it nearly took out (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/104/14/) Neji.

Sasuke's chidori went through this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/232/14/) rasengan and fatally (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/233/12/) damaged Naruto, knocking him unconscious. This was when Naruto was KN1. As pointed out b4, just a punch of KN0 Naruto severly injured Neji while he was in Kaiten, I can't see what he can do against elemental attacks of Sasuke or anyone else for that matter.

and Hiashi could displey a much more fearsome version of it. Kaiten is as much a perfect defense(as Tenten said and GAARA noted) Neji could have learned Dai Kaiten but that just bigger version of Kaiten regarding it's diameter and it's range, we can't assume anything else b.c it's too inconclusive.

As pointed out b4, Neji will have little going for him against elemental attacks of high level, such as chidori, raikiri, chidori varients, etc.

[Esponer]

Neji uses Hakke Kushou and suprises Sasuke because Neji scouted him from 10 KM away. Sasuke's heart explodes before he even registers Neji's presence.
Well at least you're not even pretending to be trying to make any sense!

* That's quite wrong. The databooks were written by Kishimoto, it's clearly what he thinks of his characters and of his narutoverse. Why can't he explain further what he thinks of the Narutoverse? I don't see why doubt it(if you don't agree, it's his word against yours).
The Databooks are not all that important because they don't tell us very much and don't look like much thought went into them. Walking the path of trying to pretend the Databook statistics are right is a bad one, which is why most experienced Battledomers give up on it.

But let's not get off the point and waste effort discussing the Databook. You said that someone with a "4" in speed can't be speedblitzed. That's not in the Databook: that's your assumption. There's really no basis for that. You also don't consider that there are different types of speed, and Kishimoto lumping them in together is too crude for our purposes. You're also seeming to think that all 5s are equal and that Sasuke is some sort of minimal 5.

**He can be surpassed, Sasuke IS, IMO, faster than him. Just not by much, and not enough to SPEEDBLITZ Neji.Neji already was basically speedblitzed by someone slower than Sasuke, so I wouldn't be so surprised.

***Gai had 6 gates opened. No contest then.So you agree in principle that a "4" can be speedblitzed. Do us a favour and abandon the Databook stats argument because even you yourself don't believe in it.

****Actually, Juuken is much more deadly yhan Hakke Rokujuuyonshou. His 64 hit strike intend to disable(and of course, harm a little) his opponent. Juuken, in contrast, has the power to kill with one touch(see how many times did Neji touches Kidomaru to kill him). Then again, capturing the enemy is much better than killing him in many situations. Also, I do believe Sasuke is faster than Neji, just not by much.Probably wasting effort on that point, you know. 64 Palms is more deadly, potentially, because it boosts Neji's attack speed up an awful lot. Like I said though, I wouldn't waste time on one adjective that isn't relevant.

*****No way of harming Sasuke? Are you serious? If you are, no harm intended, but you're talking nonsense.Yes, I am serious. Neji has nothing that he can employ that would actually harm Sasuke. I'm not saying that he has nothing that would harm Sasuke if Sasuke stood still, but in an actual fight he can't lay a finger on him.

******According to your logic here in your paragraph, not only Neji, but Lee - the one that speedblitzed Sasuke a while ago - is slow. Lee, like Neji, was caught by the Water Prison Jutsu. Are you calling Lee "sluggish" also? Check, mate.Not check and mate, actually. Lee is sluggish too, yes. Certainly in his base state, compared to the top tier he's far too slow. You don't call "checkmate" because you just realised that you really don't agree with someone: an argument being defeated isn't measured by it how much it disagrees with your own opinion.

Later on I'll answer the rest. Don't take me wrong, I am not anti-Sasuke, I just think that chances are that Neji will win in a fight.Oh, don't worry: I'm not making any assumptions about you. Also please understand that I'm neither pro-Sasuke or anti-Neji, I'm equally for both of them (and almost everyone). The big thing that's coming through is that I strongly believe in tier gaps that you don't see. I'm a bit bewildered by your stance though, because even people who don't see tier gaps as wide as I do don't tend to think that Neji stands a chance at Sasuke.

I respect your opinion, but think about it. You may think Kushou is weak, but I think it's one of the most useful jutsus EVER CREATED. Not because it kills or cripples, or even cause a great dameage, but because it creates an OPENING.
It's in my top five best jutsu ever, and that's comparing it to stuff like amaterasu and kirin. So you'll meet very few people who think as highly of that jutsu as I do. But the thing needs to hit, and as far as I can see you've offered no explanation for how the hell it would hit Sasuke.

[PisOgPapir]

Serenity. Try looking at the poll results.

My fate in humanity is dwindling

[Esponer]

Yeah, I'm really quite surprised by that. The only posters I can imagine feeling Neji could beat Sasuke would be a few of the GB fans, and they haven't really weighed in here at all.

It seems like there's a lot of tier squashing going on. Sasuke and Neji are very clearly on completely different levels, and if they were on the same level then this could be a very good fight, as Neji's fighting style is really strong. I can't help but think that everyone is "wishing" Neji into Sasuke's level, when there is zero evidence that he's anything above being a mediocre jōnin.

It's not as if it doesn't piss me off too that Neji doesn't, so far, seem to be better. But we can't wish him into a higher tier. Until he shows that he's more than some punk with relatively poor reflex speed, that's where he is.

[PisOgPapir]

Surprised me too. I disagree with nejis fighting style being strong, atleast against Sasuke, it's probably some of the worst you can get.

[Perception]

I don't have the time nor I will to answer to all your points, since it would be troublesome. But I'd like to point some things out to you people:

First, my english is not very good so pardon my mistakes. Second, I'm not forcefully trying to get my point across, I'm just stating my opinion, if it goes against yours, my bad =( Also, nobody has proof here of anything(at least not manga proof), we all have only EVIDENCES, since Neji and Sasuke have never fought. Also, Sasuke has already shown everything he has up his sleeve, while Neji didn't.

Evidences are:

- Neji is fast(there's proof in both manga and databooks).
- Neji can kill with a single hit. (there's proof)
- Neji can disable an opponent almost instanly.(idem)
- Neji can create an opening from 10m afar.(idem)

If you people still say that Neji has no chance, well,then it can't be helped.

@Serenity: I don't know what you mean with tiers, but since I'm new here I guess it's a battledome thing. I'll take a look later about what is it.

[Maximus]

Hakke Kushou is not that helpful. You gotta understand the fact that it took Gai and Lee to keep Kisame busy while Neji performed HK (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/07/). And it's just mere chakra push. Kisame was still standing after that attack and his guard wasn't down, hence the reason why he was able to block Tenten's preplanned attack. Neji has never shown any type of speed to take advantage of such things. To make it worse, Sasuke can clearly and slowly see all Neji's moves and easily avoid/counter/block as he was easily able to do in VoTE (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/06-07/).
[0] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/229/06/)
[1] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/08/)
[2] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/09/)
[3] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/230/11/)

[PisOgPapir]

Your english is better than most people on these forums. I actually think i'm going to rep you for trying to defend your opinion, and quitting when there was nothing to defend. So, +reps.

[Esponer]

I don't have the time nor I will to answer to all your points, since it would be troublesome. But I'd like to point some things out.
Don't worry: I need time to regroup my thoughts, as I really want to get my point across effectively. Once I have my thoughts back together I'll get back to you, and hopefully you to me. You're a pleasure to debate with, and while I'm really confused as to why someone would hold your view, I don't have any problem with someone who does.

@Serenity: I don't know what you mean with tiers, but since I'm new here I guess it's a battledome thing. I'll take a look later about what is it.
I just mean that they're on different levels of skill. Think Kakuzu and Zaku, say. Zaku was pretty fast, really, for the level he was on, and his jutsu were powerful and could debilitate. But the two are on a completely different level.

Neji's just plain not shown anything approaching the level Sasuke is on. So I say that they're on different tiers.

[PisOgPapir]

On tier lists; these are the ones we use for the tournament;
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=305614

[Esponer]

Bearing in mind of course that there are banned jutsu influencing the placements of shinobi, and they're also placed base on their use in a team more than their individual ability.

[Perception]

@PisOgPapir: Thank you, but it's not like I'm gonna quit =). Even though that was pretty much all I have to say about Neji, since he hadn't done much since the timeskip. But I think his combination of attacks is one of the most deadly of the manga, together with Naruto(if he actually used it all the time like when he fought Kakuzu): a supposed-by-some perfect defense, a OHKO, an opening creating jutsu and eyes that almost can't be surprised.

@Serenity: Take you time man. I'll surely take a look later on what you had to say.

[Kira]

Neji hasn't been shown enough after the timeskip to be sure but I think that he should win this one.

[Truepotential]

- Neji is fast(there's proof in both manga and databooks).
- Neji can kill with a single hit. (there's proof)
- Neji can disable an opponent almost instanly.(idem)
- Neji can create an opening from 10m afar.(idem)

Sasuke can kill with a single long ranged hit, while Neji needs a close ranged hit.

Hell, a Kunai knife can kill someone with one hit, your point doesn't make sense.

Neji is very slow compared to Sasuke.

HK sucks.

It managed to push Shouten Kisame back, that's so amazing...

Plus, he needed his teammates help.

[The World]

Neji uses Hakke Kushou and suprises Sasuke because Neji scouted him from 10 KM away. Sasuke's heart explodes before he even registers Neji's presence.

THIS IS FACT!

[Pikachu]

Neji is a close range fighter. Put them 10m apart and Sasuke definitely wins. Otherwise, no one can tell since we do not know how strong Neji is after the time skip.

[Evangeline]

Even if this battle was fairy close, the speed at which Sasuke can guard with a snake summon makes this an uphill battle for Neji.

I just cannot see Neji being able to win, first of all we have no evidence that the Byakugan can see through genjutsu and we have no real feats about time skip Neji. In fact all we get to see is Neji getting owned by 30% Kisame, which is really detrimental to any argument for Neji.

Sasuke wins through sheer power he has shown, and until we get a better picture of time skip Neji, he really stands no chance with what he has done.

[Maximus]

Even if this battle was fairy close, the speed at which Sasuke can guard with a snake summon makes this an uphill battle for Neji.
good call.

[1] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/351/11/)
[2] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/351/12-13/)
[3] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/09/)
[4] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/10/)

here done by Oro
[1] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/290/11/)
[2] (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/290/12/)

[Tasmanian Tiger]

Sasuke wins....:lmao

Naruto could beat Neji...why can't sasuke...



btw I voted Neji just for the lulz....

[kupochan]

sasuke takes this

neji isnt on the same level anymore as sasuke is as of now

[Capacity]

Sasuke wins
Sharigan > Byakugan

[Perception]

Sasuke can kill with a single long ranged hit, while Neji needs a close ranged hit.

Hell, a Kunai knife can kill someone with one hit, your point doesn't make sense.

Neji is very slow compared to Sasuke.

HK sucks.

It managed to push Shouten Kisame back, that's so amazing...

Plus, he needed his teammates help.

Well, we've seen lots of people getting hurt by kunais, but I can't remember someone being actually killed by one(except with Yondaime in Kakashi Gaiden, and I can't remember if the shinobi was actually killed). Probably Kunais are not as easy too maneuver and to aim as one's own hand, even for high level shinobis.

And sure enough, a kunai can't explode a giant spider.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/195/15/

@Genius24: Well I think those high level almost-instantaneous summon abilities are part of the Orochimaru abilities that Sasuke just lost. If those aren't, then I'll give it to Sasuke, even though, sayin it again, we haven't seen everything Neji can do Post TS, and Sasuke has shown pretty much everything he had to show.

[Truepotential]

Well, we've seen lots of people getting hurt by kunais, but I can't remember someone being actually killed by one(except with Yondaime in Kakashi Gaiden, and I can't remember if the shinobi was actually killed). Probably Kunais are not as easy too maneuver and to aim as one's own hand, even for high level shinobis.

And sure enough, a kunai can't explode a giant spider.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/195/15/



Kidomaru's spider's are made of Chakra webs.

Neji's fighting style was perfect against those webs, because Kidomaru's webs were useless once the chakra flow stopped.

So it wasn't the physical power of his taijutsu.

[IMMORTALx1]

Base Sasuke is still better than neji expeshily with his advanced 3-tomoe sharingan.

[Perception]

Kidomaru's spider's are made of Chakra webs.

Neji's fighting style was perfect against those webs, because Kidomaru's webs were useless once the chakra flow stopped.

So it wasn't the physical power of his taijutsu.

The spider wasn't made of Kidomaru's webs. Thatr spider was a summon, and quite a big one.

I have to disagree with you, it was the power of the juuken that destroyed that summon.

[sarun uchiha]

Sasuke wins this.

[Truepotential]

The spider wasn't made of Kidomaru's webs. Thatr spider was a summon, and quite a big one.

I have to disagree with you, it was the power of the juuken that destroyed that summon.

It was made of the same material.

Juuken is never for piercing through an enemy's defense, it's suppose to stop chakra flow + damage enemy organs.

[Grimmjow]

lol uchiha
neji takes this

[Jihad]

I'll take Neji for this one X3

[†_Camorra_†]

It was made of the same material.

Juuken is never for piercing through an enemy's defense, it's suppose to stop chakra flow + damage enemy organs.

No you are wrong,the Jyuken concetrates a high amount of chakra in the hand like very smal nidles witch can cut through almost anything.The webs of Kido where made of physical material :zaru

[Kieuseru]

How are people saying that Neji wins? It's a 10 meter starting distance, and Sasuke has an extremely fast burst speed, and a 5 meter attack that can penetrate Neji's defense. This is ridiculous.

[Reik]

Seeing how so many "Neji-wins" posts are not supported by facts. Here's what I think are the only two possible scenarios:

1. Sasuke spits from 10 meters away and Neji drowns.

2. Neji dies from shock upon knowing that he has to solo a kage-level sasuke.

[maximilyan]

I'm going to go with neji. sasuke without CS or Oro's abilities hasnt shown me anything impressive tbh.,

[Truepotential]

No you are wrong,the Jyuken concetrates a high amount of chakra in the hand like very smal nidles witch can cut through almost anything.The webs of Kido where made of physical material

Webs are a physical material.

The Jyuken concentrates chakra so it can be realeased onto the opponent to stop the flow of chakra or to damage enemy organs.

Once the chakra flow of the webs are neutralized, they are weak.

By your theory, Neji's attack should've pierced through Hinata's chest...

But... it didn't. Neji realeased the chakra he concentrated on to Hinata's body to damage internal organs.

[Esponer]

I have to agree with Truepotential here – jūken does not itself have a high physical attack power, except in anime filler.

maximilyan, what has Neji possibly showed you against which you can say, relatively, that Sasuke has not showed anything impressive? Has Neji showed you speed against which Sasuke's is not impressive? (Really?)

[Saiai]

As much as i like Neji, Sasuke will win this one. Why? You do the math.