A Song of Ice and Fire

[Literally Exaggerated]

Anyone else read this series (besides Arilou, who I know is a fan)? I really hope so, because it is, hands down, the best fantasy series being published today, and if it maintains its current brilliance, is a possible contender for best fantasy series of all time.

Think of all those staples of fantasy: the destined hero, the princess who loves the peasant, the wise old magical mentor, powerful wizards, weak hordes of monstrous enemies, dark lords, foretold quests against impossible odds, good guys, bad guys. Okay, you have all that tolkein-esque D&D stuff in your head? Good. Throw it out the window. None of it applies to aSoIaF.

Instead you just have people, the most varied, complex, well realized cast of characters assembled in a fantasy novel, ever. And they all have different things they want to accomplish, lands to conquer, battles to win, overarching schemes so complex they would make Shikamaru shit himself. And the story switches from character to character, varied points of view, so there is no "main character", just a bunch of points of view facing off against each other in bloody conflict.

And what conflict! People die in this. Not in the Tolkein or Jordan type way, when main characters only ever die in moments of heroic sacrifice. Nope. "Good" guys, "bad" guys, all can die at any time, when you least expect it. And they stay dead. And because they're so brilliantly realized, you *care*.

Nobody does political intrigue than George RR Martin, few do action this intense and realistic and exciting, no one does characterization or plotting like he does.

Here are just a few of the characters in the story

Tyrion Lannister - Stunted, ugly, twisted. Brilliant, priveledged. Such is the paradox of Tyrion Lannister. The youngest son of the ruthless, wealthy Noble House of Lannister, he is a dwarf. His misshapen appearance has earned him the scorn of the entire world save his brother Jaime, but his brilliant mind makes him too useful a tool to simply discard. Cynical, ruthless, distrustful, he has committed horrible crimes, but he has managed to maintain a scrap of morality in the face of it all. Of course, in the politics of King's Landing, a scrap of morality is the best way to end up dead, and even Tyrion may not be brilliant enough to think his way out of myriad plots surrounding him.

Jaime Lannister - Tyrion's older brother, twin brother and lover (yes, incest) to Queen Cersei. The youngest kinsguard of all time, one of the most brilliant fighters in the world. Handsome, arrogant, reckless. A killer of children, a savior of maidens, he is every bit as paradoxical and complex as his brother.

Arya Stark - Youngest daughter of House Stark, she rejects the noble way for young girls of embroidery and pretty dresses and balls, instead preferring swordplay which she studies under the swordmaster Syrio Forel. She is thrust into the harsh realities of the world, and the slow transformation from good natured tomboy into cold-blooded killer begs the question: When its all over, will there be anything recognizably human about Arya?

Sandor Clegane - the Hound of House Lannister. A towering, powerful warrior. A cynical killer who lives by the creed "only the strong survive", filled with self-loathing, failed morality and a lust for the next drink, he lives for one purpose: to kill his brother Gregor, who held his face in the fire when he was only 6 years old because he used one of his toys. But killing Gregor will be no easy task, as the 8 ft. tall Gregor is among the most feared men in Westeros.

Daenarys Targaryen - Mother of Dragons, the lone surviving daughter of the former kings of Westeros, House Targaryen, she wanders plains with the nomadic, barbarian Dothraki, seeking to reclaim her throne.

These are just a sampling, and in no way can I do them justice. Just trust me, if you like fantasy at all, you need to read this.

[tygah]

I love this series man. If only Martin would finish the next book before I die lol.

[tygah]

By the way in my opinion I think Jon Snow is the main character.

[Literally Exaggerated]

Jon Snow? Possibly. Certainly he seems to be the closest thing to a "hero" in the stories, with the possible exception of Dany. If I had to choose one main character though, I'd say its Ned in the first book, and after that, Dany.

[MrSnowman]

I have the feeling Arya is going to be uber in the end. Any idea when the next book is going to be released?
Also I dont think there is a "main character," If there is, its the collective embodiement of the Stark household.

[tygah]

Stark house? That sounds good, although I wonder how it will turn out with the mother (i forgot her name it's been so long between books lol). I think Jon will confront her. Also I think Jon and Dany will meet also. He will leave the wall I think.

[MrSnowman]

Catlyn Stark? I think, its a C name. I dont think Jon is going to leave the wall, well... Jon might leave it, but he will probably remain its commander. He chose his honor over trying to claim the Stark household as his own when he was offered by whats his name (the king no one likes)

[Literally Exaggerated]

Yeah, I can't see Jon forsaking the wall. What I'm really looking forward to is

When Tyrion meets up with Dany. Tyrion's brains and knowledge of dragons combined with Dany's forces and charisma? pwnage

[tygah]

Well I think the wall will be overrun and He will be forced south. And if all three would be united I would be happy. Also I don't think there will be any spoilers between us as I think the only ones coming here are ones that has read the books. We've had enough time to read all three many times over lol.

[Literally Exaggerated]

GRRM has at various cons read sample chapters from the next book, if you check out the board of ice and fire it has summaries of all of them.

[tygah]

So my assumptions are all wrong? I'd rather read the finished product. Could you give me a link to these summaries?

[Asherah]

I've been a major fan of the books for a couple years now, and been tortured waiting for Feast >_<

You're absolutely right, this is a contender for one of the best fantasy series out there. (Although nothing will ever exceed the brilliant of the Farseer trilogy to me!) The characters, the intricate politics, everything is done so well that these books are a great read. And of course, no-one as a reader of the series can help realising that GRRM has a trick for making the characters and their stories very powerful and emotive: they...well...die a lot :( It's done well. Like real life, with things cut off abruptly, half-finished...that's one of the reasons I love these books, anyway. Things don't work out all the time. There is no immortal hero, the love isn't cliched, the interactions between the characters are actually interesting and you get something out of them.

Yes, I love these books and I wish there was more fantasy like them. If only more people were willing to see beyond the whole 'sword, dungeon and dragon' idea with fantasy, these books would certainly be up there with the greats of fiction.

[Hangatýr]

I'm somewhat interested in this series, can anyone PM or tell me some more about it in here?

[Literally Exaggerated]

http://p080.ezboard.com/fasoiaffrm2

most of the top threads with stickies on them include summaries/discussion of spoiler chapters. there are about 20 of them

[tygah]

Thanks. Wow I was reading some of the postings, has it really been 6 years between his last book and this one?

[Literally Exaggerated]

yep. though he has finished writing this one and it shsould be out by the end of this year.

[Dr. Maturin]

yep. though he has finished writing this one and it shsould be out by the end of this year.


Umm go to his website www.georgerrmartin.com (http://www.georgerrmartin.com) and don't believe anything unless you get it from his website. I see no way A Feast For Crows will be out this year.

[tygah]

Well i guess i'll read these three again.

[SDF1]

This is a fantastic series... but I have one question.

What ever happened to Ned Stark's youngest son? I don't remember the last book even mentioning him.

[jkingler]

Read the May 29th update!!! :omg

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/

I am SO HAPPY!!!! :dance

I posted somewhere else, several times, about my great love for this series, and I am supremely happy that I get my hands on more Martin sooner rather than later. And I am just fine with parallel narratives. I read LOTR, and there's a lot of that going on, so I'll live. And the title for book 5: Dances with Dragons!!! *squeals like a schoolgirl*

@The poster above: Bran, the youngest Stark, was most definitely in the last book. Remember the frog eaters? The green dreams? How everyone thinks he is dead? He played a major role in setting up what is to come in the story. I have high hopes for Bran :occa

[SDF1]

@The poster above: Bran, the youngest Stark, was most definitely in the last book. Remember the frog eaters? The green dreams? How everyone thinks he is dead? He played a major role in setting up what is to come in the story. I have high hopes for Bran :occa

Nononononono... not Bran.

Rickon.

WTF ever happened to Rickon?

[jkingler]

Oooooh yeah! Rickon! :slapsforehead

[SamuraiSoul]

Just finished book 3 in this series. It's great. One of the best. You were right about when someone dies. You care.

Just a couple things to throw in the air...

I don't think he will be able to hold onto the Lord Commander position for the Wall. I doubt Stannis will take it. He will make someone else be the Commander, and force Jon to marry Val, and rule Winterfell. Someone needs to do it, and since, everyone else in his family is "dead", he's the only one to do it.
Man, she's finally on the way to meet with J'haqen Hgar, or whatever his name is. I secretly believe he's Syrio Forel. Also, I remember reading what valar morghulis meant but I forgot. She is going to be very much kick ass when she learns to change her appearance.
What's he going to do now? He's going to be hunted by Cersei's hired goons wherever he goes from now on? What do you think lies in store for him? Does Jaime really believe he killed Joffrey? Tons of questions.
What will she do, now that Littlefinger has killed her Aunt? Doubtless, no one will believe a "bastard" to what Lord Baelish has to say. And I doubt she can convince the Eyrie guards that she is of House Stark. What exactly does Littlefinger think he's going to do with Sansa? Pretend she's a tiny Catelyn?
This has to do with the epilogue from book three. Unless you have read it, you are warned not to read this.Now, apparently, Lord Beric Dondarrion is'nt the only person who can be ressurected from the Breath of R'Hollor. Catelyn was apparently revived from death as well, although she's lost the ability to speak. She obviously has a DEEP grudge for the Frey's, backstabbing bastards that they are. I bet she, and the other of Robert's Men are going to give the Frey's hell.
What's he going to do now? He let Tyrion go. He has no sword arm. He's useless. How is he going to continue being the Commander of the Kingsguard when he can't fight at all? With his father dead, and Tyrion gone, either Cersei or Jaime get the rights to Casterly Rock, and the entire Lannister household. Will Jaime give up his Kingsguard position?
So. She's going to play Queen in Meereen. She now has Barristan the Bold as one of her Queensguard. Who could have thought Barristan Selmy would go to Daenarys Targeryen? But it makes sense, since Joffrey, in his "wisdom" deemed Barristan to old to continue on with the Kingsguard, who else would Barristan go to? But what about poor Jorah Mormont, who came to love our poor Dany? She had to banish him, because he presumed to tell her what to do, instead of beg her to forgive him like he should have. I feel sorry for Mormont. I hope he gets back in Dany's good graces.

And there you have it.

[Uchiha^Sasuke]

Heavens, I really love this book!!!
My favourite characters are Loras Tyrell and of course Jaime Lannister. The romance between Jaime and the ugly woman is one of the best love stories I've ever read and Loras is the ideal knight I've always craved for!!! I'll answer to the last post when I come back home and have enough time :)

[9Tail-Hokage]

Didn't read your description because it would've spoiled the shit outta me. Recently, I've purchased A Game of Thrones but I've decided to read Eldest first(since I read Eragon). I keep hearing great things about this book and series. One person here said that after reading A Song of Fire and Ice series, all other fantasy books just seemed boring to him.

[Vikrat]

I borrowed the two first books from the library and loved them, so now i have to try and find the rest of them.

[Sho]

The only series that actually compares to Song of Ice and Fire is Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, and the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erickson. Out of the three however, The Malazan Book of the Fallen is most complex, with Song of Ice and Fire in second, and Wheel of Time in third. But Robert Jordan and Steven Erickson have way better updating speeds than George R.R Martin, who's pissed off everyone with all his delays on the fourth book.

But I don't believe any other series are on the same level as these three. They're truly something else, and way better than Tolkien ever was (even though he was the first successful "pioneer" like that in fantasy).

[Dionysus]

Yes. 'Tis a good series, so far.

I'll briefly share my thoughts on the underlying idea of the book, and how it relates to characters and the story. The name of the story is a Song of Ice and Fire. From what we now know, there appears to actually be a fire god, R'hllor, and an ice god, the Other. Or, at least, these two gods have a lot of power; that's not to say there are no old gods.

Now, so far, we're lead to believe that R'hllor is good, and the Other is bad. I don't like to assume that, Martin being as he is. Like the seasons, the power of each waxes and wanes. Too much ice and you freeze; too much fire and you burn. So what I reason is that a balance is what humans need.

There are sinister characteristics of both gods' followers. The Others look quite out for the death of humans, and they raise the dead. Melisandre doesn't seem to give off an aura of goodness, what with her sucking the lfe out of Stannis to kill people with shadows. The dead has been raised by the fire god too.

Martin is all about grey characterisations, but something feels off with both gods.

That's not to say that R'hllor will emerge as another villain after the Other is beaten back. It's just that I think that the solution to the problems will happen when Starks and Targaryen work together. A song of Ice and Fire. If Melisandre looks to be trying to kill the Other, I'd be suspicious.

Then there is Jon, who I think represents both fire and ice. I'm in the camp what thinks he's the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Jon could also represent the song of Ice and Fire. This sort of lends to him being one of the more important characters (along with Dany and Tyrion; each could represent a head of a dragon, imagery used in the books) in terms of leadership for the entire series, till the end.

Of course, I could be completely off, and R'hllor is a good god, humans are the fire equivalent to the Others, and so on. It just seems too simple for the story.

Hm... I'm sure I have more to say... It's just been so LONG since I've really read or thought about all this. :amuse

[Antenox]

The only series that actually compares to Song of Ice and Fire is Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, and the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erickson. Out of the three however, The Malazan Book of the Fallen is most complex, with Song of Ice and Fire in second, and Wheel of Time in third. But Robert Jordan and Steven Erickson have way better updating speeds than George R.R Martin, who's pissed off everyone with all his delays on the fourth book.

But I don't believe any other series are on the same level as these three. They're truly something else, and way better than Tolkien ever was (even though he was the first successful "pioneer" like that in fantasy).
Robert Jordan is in NO WAY anywhere near Martin or Erikson. He is one of the worst writers of fantasy of the last fifteen years, whereas Martin and Erikson are two of the best. No other author writes characters as ANNOYING as his female protagonists.

If anyone deserves to be in that "trinity" of modern fantasy authors, it's either R. Scott Bakker ("The Prince of Nothing") or Guy Gavriel Kay ("Tigana").

[Dionysus]

Bakker for the win.

[jkingler]

http://www.westeros.org/

Is nobody else excited about A Feast For Crows coming out tomorrow?!: omg I mean, I know he takes eons to release his novels, but that's all the more reason to celebrate when he finally does! :laugh

*Runs off to make a thread about it!*

[Dionysus]

Speculation based from AFFC (so MAJOR spoilers):


- The Alchemist/Pate at the end of the book is the Faceless Man formerly known as Jaqen H'ghar.

- Sandor Clegane is not dead, but rather, his persona, the Hound, is dead. He's a novice at the Seven monastery that Brienne visits. The gravedigger with the limp.

- Quentyn Martell is off to fetch (or propose to...) Dany

- Gregor Clegane is undead, or living artificially, possible with a head made from other people's body parts. Qyburn was going to use "it" to champion for Cersei, who had recently guaranteed that couldn't happen. The thing might even be larger than Gregor too, since Qyburn requested a suit of armour too big for a man. It's unclear if it was meant bigger than Clegane's old armour, or just a normal man's.

- Davos is likely alive, since I doubt Manderly would take sides so easily. He's possibly the method of Arya's return if he was banished.

- Interesting side note: Arya's lesson on poisons gives insight as to how Jaqen killed people in ACOK. (Basilisk blood given to the dog to kill the guy Weese. Though, not necessarily true, since he'd have to have hidden the stuff well to still have some. Or found a nice stash in Harrenhal.)

- I think Jaime is the valonqar of Cersei's foretelling. She was born before Jaime even though they are twins. It's unknown whether Jaime killed her by ignoring her plea, or he'll do it later. She will probably still be alive when Dany arrives, though. At least, one can hope just to see the look on her face.

- Quentyn Martell is travelling with a maester, I believe. That might be dangerous for Dany since the Oldtown boys aren't much for prophecy and magic. Marwyn the Mage tells of the other Archmaesters having an agenda to create a world (or Westeros) without magic. The dragons might be threatened.

- The Sand Snake Sarella is posing as a maester acolyte (I think that's the rank she had) called Alleras. Prince Doran says she is out of Dorne currently, and they couldn't lock her up while she continued with her "game" wherever she is. Alleras is noted as being a very skinny, lithe young man with Dornish features. A delicate face with big eyes. Also Alleras Sarella, it's an obvious fake name. People are probably just not used to seeing a girl with short hair and small breasts and a small waist in conjunction with ethnically different features. Makes it easy to pose as a man, apart from the voice.

- Arya gave up "her" eyes in an early step towards becoming a Faceless Woman. It seems ritualistic rather than divinely caused. I think she will probably have to train when blind, then her sight comes back when the chemical wears off. Then her hearing is compromised, and she trains, etc.

- I'll post more if I think of them.


Info on the next book, A Dance with Dragons, taken from another site:

GRRM's recent signing at Huntingdon Beach, California, and a few other places has thrown up some interesting new information about ADWD.

GRRM is confident that he can get the book done for a release about 12-18 months after AFFC. The introduction of the '18 month' statement concerned some people who suddenly feared it was going the way of WoT, but GRRM has now elaborated on the reason for the possible delay: he's going to put back in some of the AFFC characters into ADWD! The original plan was to make ADWD the same length as AFFC and cover the same amount of time, plus a couple of extra months for the longer travel times needed (various characters travelling from Westeros to Meereen). However, this seemed problematic as it meant the character plotlines would be getting out of sync with one another. GRRM seems to have decided to tell the 'flipside' of AFFC and then press ahead with some more stuff resolving the cliffhangers from AFFC.

ADWD has been extended from 1,100 manuscript pages (same length as AGoT/AFFC) to 1,400 manuscript pages (longer than ACoK, shorter than ASoS). GRRM hopes to tell the flipside story of AFFC in about 1,000 pages and then go back and deal with Cersei, Brienne etc. Exciting news! He's also said that The Winds of Winter (still the title for Book 6) will have all of the major plot strands reunited. The need to make sure that events in Meereen and events in Westeros are proceeding at the same time would seem to confirm that Dany and co. are at long last going to be heading home in the sixth volume. The biggest concern, of course, is that GRRM hasn't always stayed on track with his plans, but hopefully the overwhelming desire to get ADWD out ASAP and not disappoint his fans will keep him on course.

EDIT: It looks like GRRM is going to get ADWD done 'as planned' and then look at extending it to cover the other POVs. Phew. That should hopefully stop it exploding into another AFFC debacle. I'd be prepared to wait 18 months for the book if it means we get ADWD plus resolution to the AFFC cliffhangers, rather than waiting 12 months for ADWD and then 24 months+ for the resolution to both.

Just to clarify, the extension of a few months in ADWD after AFFC will cover all POVs, not just ADWD POVs. And I think Dany will start heading home near the end of ADWD.

[jkingler]

Gah, gah!!! >.<

I almost read some of that! >.>

Spoiler tag it, please. :begs I am only on page 400 right now, since it is my bathroom book, and I don't want to know ANYTHING before I read it, if I can help it :sweatdrop

Btw, Book IV is AWESOME so far. I have to say, I am most interested in Arya so far this time around, but there hasn't been a chapter I've disliked. Also, I must say,

Brienne couldn't have found a more fitting squire than Pod. XD

[Dionysus]

Fine fine. I figured saying there were major spoilers from the book was fine enough. :P

Ser. My Lady.

[Dionysus]

No-one wishes to comment on my comments above? :sad

[jkingler]

-The Alchemist/Pate at the end of the book is the Faceless Man formerly known as Jaqen H'ghar.
Could be.
- Sandor Clegane is not dead, but rather, his persona, the Hound, is dead. He's a novice at the Seven monastery that Brienne visits. The gravedigger with the limp.
Could be.
- Quentyn Martell is off to fetch (or propose to...) Dany
I thought that was fairly apparent. *shrugs*
- Gregor Clegane is undead, or living artificially, possible with a head made from other people's body parts. Qyburn was going to use "it" to champion for Cersei, who had recently guaranteed that couldn't happen. The thing might even be larger than Gregor too, since Qyburn requested a suit of armour too big for a man. It's unclear if it was meant bigger than Clegane's old armour, or just a normal man's.
Ooooooh. Interesting. Frankengane! XD
- Davos is likely alive, since I doubt Manderly would take sides so easily. He's possibly the method of Arya's return if he was banished.
That sounds convenient enough, so I don't doubt it.
- Interesting side note: Arya's lesson on poisons gives insight as to how Jaqen killed people in ACOK. (Basilisk blood given to the dog to kill the guy Weese. Though, not necessarily true, since he'd have to have hidden the stuff well to still have some. Or found a nice stash in Harrenhal.)
That makes a lot of sense.
- I think Jaime is the valonqar of Cersei's foretelling. She was born before Jaime even though they are twins. It's unknown whether Jaime killed her by ignoring her plea, or he'll do it later. She will probably still be alive when Dany arrives, though. At least, one can hope just to see the look on her face.
Oooh. Nice twist that I actually hadn't thought of, but I totally should have. I suck at guessing what will happen in books, although I am good when it comes to movies. *shrugs*
- Quentyn Martell is travelling with a maester, I believe. That might be dangerous for Dany since the Oldtown boys aren't much for prophecy and magic. Marwyn the Mage tells of the other Archmaesters having an agenda to create a world (or Westeros) without magic. The dragons might be threatened.
The dragons are definitely threatened by several parties, but I agree, the maesters are certainly going to be one of them.
- The Sand Snake Sarella is posing as a maester acolyte (I think that's the rank she had) called Alleras. Prince Doran says she is out of Dorne currently, and they couldn't lock her up while she continued with her "game" wherever she is. Alleras is noted as being a very skinny, lithe young man with Dornish features. A delicate face with big eyes. Also Alleras Sarella, it's an obvious fake name. People are probably just not used to seeing a girl with short hair and small breasts and a small waist in conjunction with ethnically different features. Makes it easy to pose as a man, apart from the voice.
Sarella is pulling an Arry, eh? Good call, there. An obvious anagram that eluded my detection. D'oh!
- Arya gave up "her" eyes in an early step towards becoming a Faceless Woman. It seems ritualistic rather than divinely caused. I think she will probably have to train when blind, then her sight comes back when the chemical wears off. Then her hearing is compromised, and she trains, etc.
This I called as well, and definitely agree with. It is undoubtedly a part of her training, and I look forward to her story picking up again.
- I'll post more if I think of them.
I posted a few in the other thread, which I am about to go check.

*Tips hat at Sepitmilius*

[Dionysus]

As to the Alchemist,

The description of the man formerly known as Jaqen H'ghar is almost worded exactly the same. Right down to the scar under his right eye. See ACOK p691 (mm paperback), and AFFC p15.

After I went back and reread that section of ACOK, I'm fairly certain of this.

I haven't the slightest clue what the Faceless Men are doing in the Citadel, though.

[Pazuzu]

I'm halfway through Feast, and bored to tears. Pretty much abandoned it for about two weeks now. The Iron Islands are horribly uninteresting.

I miss the Dance characters. It's bad news for me that it has Feast tie-ins, because I was hoping I could read Dance to get my I&F high back, then go back to finish Feast.

Damn you, Martin.

[Sho]

I need to buy Feast for Crows... I didn't even know it was out to tell the truth (was preoccupied with Wheel of Time and finals for the time). I heard Crows has none of the main characters from the previous books which is a bummer and probably is the reason why I'm not so enthusiastic about getting the book in the first place. Oh well, I guess it's a necessary read.

[Pazuzu]

It has main characters.

What it DOESN'T have is Tyrion, Dany and Jon.

Fnar.

[Sho]

In other words, no good main characters?

lol, besides Jaime of course. Jaime is awesome, and he's my favorite along with Jon, Tyrion, and Dany. Guess I really don't have that much too look forward too, but at least it'll move the plot along.

[jkingler]

You get lots of Cersei, Jaime, Samwell, Brienne, Iron Islanders, Sansa, and, my fave of this book, Arya.

This book sets up a lot of very interesting possibilities. It isn't as good a read as the previous books, but, when it stands alone, it is by no means less than great. Also: read to the end, fools. There is a bonus chapter that will make you VERY happy. :-D

[DragonHeart52]

You get lots of Cersei, Jaime, Samwell, Brienne, Iron Islanders, Sansa, and, my fave of this book, Arya.

This book sets up a lot of very interesting possibilities. It isn't as good a read as the previous books, but, when it stands alone, it is by no means less than great. Also: read to the end, fools. There is a bonus chapter that will make you VERY happy. :-D
:shakefist jk!! You bastard! *hehe*

On jk's recommendation, I picked up the book "A Game of Thrones" and stayed up until after 1 this morning reading it (considering I had to get up for work, that left me a few hours sleep short, but it was well worth it). Then I realize at the end, I've got plenty more to go in this series and I've only finished book 1. So now, it's off to Amazon and the used book shop to pick up the rest. Definitely a great read and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.

I've deliberately skipped a lot of the discussion since I didn't want to risk unintentional spoilers. I will be back to add my bit as I work through the remaining books. :amuse

[Ninja Blitzkrieg]

A Feast for Crows was a fantastic read. It felt soooooo good to be reading Martin again after the long drought between books.

Also, Beric Dondarrion will shiv you, no questions asked. Do not mess with that man.

[Dionysus]

Also, Beric Dondarrion will shiv you, no questions asked. Do not mess with that man.
Alas, poor Beric... :cry

I have no reason to doubt Thoros. :(

[Nakor]

my goodness. i just finished book 4. i really had no interest in a good bit of the characters. but knowing the next book will be filled with the characters that were left out(or had only a few chapters) makes me happy. i want more bran, jon, and arya.

[jkingler]

And don't forget Dany! Lots and lots of Dany! :nuts

[Oskar von Reuental]

No love for Tyrion Lannister?!

Infidels!!! :yell

[Sho]

Tyrion>all

Then Dany, Jon, Jaime, Arya, Sansa, and Bran in that order.

[jkingler]

Tyrion is himself probably the coolest character, but I much prefer Dany's and Arya's chapters, because there is so much more going on with the so-far unknown regions of the SOIaF world. But maybe that's just me. :oh

[Nakor]

i agree with Jkingler about the Arya and Dany chapters. I really enjoy them, especially the Arya ones in AFFC. the upcoming bran chapters are going to be awesome i think. we know nothing of that part of the world now, so it'll be real interesting to learn more about it.

for me it goes:
Jon > Bran > Arya > Jaime > Tyrion > Samwell > Dany > Sansa...then the rest in no particular order. though i did like the chapters concerning Dorne, since its still kind of a mystery

[Medea]

Rhaegar > Jaime > Daenerys > Jon > Tyrion > everyone else

Yes. I'm dragon-obsessed. Dead-dragon-obsessed, to be exact. :P

You get lots of Cersei, Jaime, Samwell, Brienne, Iron Islanders, Sansa, and, my fave of this book, Arya.

This book sets up a lot of very interesting possibilities. It isn't as good a read as the previous books, but, when it stands alone, it is by no means less than great. Also: read to the end, fools. There is a bonus chapter that will make you VERY happy. :-D

The end of that made me go WTF!?

Loved seeing Dorne. Looking forward to Quenten, or whatever his name was. :amuse

Did that leave anyone else with weird conspiracy theories about the Lannister twins? Two suggestions (Genna, Joanna in the dream) that Tywin wasn't their father wasn't something I could easily push aside.

I wonder who the three queens Littlefinger mentioned are going to be...? Dany and who? Sansa? Margaery? Arianne? Asha? Someone I'm forgetting? Probably not Cersei, if she gets what she deserves...

[DragonHeart52]

:knk Book two out of the way while I was doing a little recovery time. Again, I'm behind you guys, so I don't look at your posts too closely.

:notrust Dead dragon obsessed?? I certainly hope not, for my sake.

On to book three. Gotta love those 30% off coupons. and I do like Tyrion Lannister. That little guy has a lot of courage in that small body and more integrity than the rest of the family combined (such an understatement). :P

[pesul]

I'm still waiting for the 4th book in spanish... This series is a materpierce!

[9Tail-Hokage]

I'm finding it kinda tough to get into the book after the first 40 pages for some reason. I'll press on, though, because it's gotten such great reviews and it's still to early to judge the book.

[DragonHeart52]

I had a hard time at first too, especially when I thought the worst for Bran. At that point I had to put the book down for a while. However, when I picked it up and began to read again, I became more intrigued and before I knew it, I was done and on to the next one.

I actually think I came into this series at a really good time, not having to wait for the next book to come out. I already purchased both III and IV and am ready to go.

:P *jkingler is a dealer feeding my addiction*

[jkingler]

Glad to see (from your post elsewhere) that ASoIaF has regained your interest, 9TH. :thumbs

@DH: How has your reading come along? Have you stalled out? If so, I can give you a jump. :P

/anxious for book 5. needs more Dany and Tyrion and Jon and...

[Sho]

Didn't they say that Book 5 was coming out this year (judging from the authors note at the end of Feast for Crows)? Hey, I'm glad there's not gonna be as much wait for it as for 4.

Anyways I really liked Feast for Crows despite there not being alot of the characters which I liked. George R.R Martin is just a great storyteller since he makes any chapter exciting as the others, for whatever character. Brienne's chapters were always interesting to read and I'm pretty interested to see how she'll do with that cliff hanger that happened. Cersei is still a bitch though. I was just laughing when she turned to run away from the priest guy. Classic. :laugh

By the way, anyone else get some weird vibes from that character? For some reason (I don't know why) but he reminds me of that one crazy looking priest guy from Berserk (you should know who I'm talking about), as well as that priest character in Hellsing who's Alucard's rival. You know, like those crusader types with the sword who hang people on the cross while telling them to pray to the lord. I knew as soon as Cersei gave the permission for him to allow the churches to arm themselves that it'll come bite them all in the ass one day. They're gonna be a dangerous force soon IMO.

Anyways looking forward to Daenarys next book! The preview at the end was pretty good but it only makes me want to read it more now..:cry

[Nakor]

I'm finding it kinda tough to get into the book after the first 40 pages for some reason. I'll press on, though, because it's gotten such great reviews and it's still to early to judge the book.
it was tough for me too. the prologue made me alittle confused about what was going on. but once you got like maybe 100 pages into it, it starts to get interesting. it just takes awhile for the story to pick up.

your post was pretty outdated there. so how far have you gotten in it?

edit: i too think that the book may be out by the end of the year. he did write half of it when the 4th came out.

[Onbu]

Allright, some people just hiijacked my Naruto character analysis thread with a discission about this series. Instead of placing your heads all on pikes in front of my woodshed, I'll give you a chance to sell me. What's so great about it? sounds kind of like a fantasy soap opera. Very character driven. Characters come and go and you don't even agree who the main character is. So in a nutshel... the story is:

?

[Dionysus]

Allright, some people just hiijacked my Naruto character analysis thread with a discission about this series. Instead of placing your heads all on pikes in front of my woodshed, I'll give you a chance to sell me. What's so great about it? sounds kind of like a fantasy soap opera. Very character driven. Characters come and go and you don't even agree who the main character is. So in a nutshel... the story is:

?
It is not typical modern fantasy. Any magic in the books is far far far in the background. A mystery, like in the olde stories. Of course, this changes somewhat, so I hear Martin said, are the end draws near.

The story is, in a lot of ways, historical fiction with supernatural elements very expertly weaved throughout. Historically speaking, the main story so far is much like the War of the Roses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses) but, obviously highly spruced up with action and drama.

It starts off in the north of what is called Westeros, a continent the size of South America, but seems to be culturally like feudal Britain. Lord Eddard of House Stark, the House many see as the being the main characters along with a couple others, is called down to serve as the Kings Hand in the Royal Seat in King's Landing (a city), as the previous Hand recently died. Shit hits the fan when this highly moral and honourable character enters the poisonous political storm that he eluded up north.

Meanwhile, the deposed "King" across a small sea (on an area like continental Europe, I suppose) plots to retake the throne from the Usurper, who currently sits the Iron Throne of Westeros. He marries his sister, Daenrys to a nomadic Khal (like a king, I suppose) in hopes of using his Hun-like army to retake the throne.

Meanwhile, along the northern border of Westeros, a long-thought vanquished enemy, the Others, creatures of ice and death, appear to be stirring. A giant wall of ice, the Wall, served thousands of years as a barrier. Now the threat of the Other's is a myth, not many believe. Not even amongst the Night's Watch, who stand guard on the Wall.

What can a the Realm do to defend itself from what it doesn't believe when it rots from the inside out from civil war?
**********************

The characters are real and fleshed out. The characters drive the story, not the action. But the action is also excellent, but also graphic. The story moves quickly, but still retains excellent detail in each chapter. ie. Martin doesn't waste chapters.

It's pretty sweet. I'd at least recommend trying A Game of Thrones. After reading that in full, if you don't want to continue, there's no reason to force yourself.

[Taleran]

YA for thread about this series

I love how Martin writes like a serial killer you can't place bets on whose living because NOONE DOES


But I dislike how we're gonna half 2 wait for 2 books to see how the end of Book 4 turns out, NOT FAIR

[Dionysus]

*kicks GRRM in the nuts*

[jkingler]

/puts ice on said nuts to assuage the nethers, in hopes that he will have the presence of mind to finish this series; also, in hopes that his progeny will be equally or even more gifted literary lights

[Robotkiller]

I'd like to kick up some more discussion on this series. The library gets far to little action nowadays.

Has anybody read the two novellas based on the ASOIAF series?

I think the titles are The Hedge knight and The Sworn Sword.

Are they worth picking up, and do they add anything of importance to the overall plot?

[pek]

Just started re-reading Game of thrones and god...do I hate Sansa. She must be the character I despise the most in all the books I've read.

Reminds me of Sakura...

[Suigetsu]

I am in halfway of a feast for crows, and so far I have to say that House Dayne of Star Fall Owns men!

By the way anynews on whyen a dance with dragons will come?

About House Dayne.

I think that Jon snow mother was the lady of house dayne that got suicided, I mean hes lover just killed her brother and married another woman and if that wasnt bad hes taking her child.
No wonder why she did jump

[Robotkiller]

Just started re-reading Game of thrones and god...do I hate Sansa. She must be the character I despise the most in all the books I've read.

Reminds me of Sakura...

She also reminded me of sakura. She's the stereotypical servile wife character. Martin doesn't try to make her anything more because that's how her character is able to move the plot forwards. But if you think she's an annoying female then it's good that you haven't read The wheel of time series:laugh

I can't wait until Baelish's plot is carried out, that crafty pedo bastard is my favorite character, and the reason I look forward to sansa's chapters.:nuts

[Dionysus]

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

GRRM will post an updated message, or so he says, the moment he finishes ADWD. And he's not touching it before then.


Sansa got more tolerable as the books went on. Er... rather, she was more tolerable starting at the end of A Storm of Swords. Mainly due to her eyes slowly opening to the realities of the world.

Anyways, I believe the novellas do have interesting tie-ins here and there to the main story, but are mostly separate. I've heard they're good, but I've never got around to them.

I still want Jon's mother to be Lyanna. ;_;


Everyone read this series (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=95032)!

[Yakuza]

No way I never saw this thread before!!

Im super mad fanatic with Game of Thrones series....

Its amazing.... I love it to bit... but I hate Sansa :mad

Viserys Targarien is the Don... :ruri
I love Eddard Stark too.. :nod


Gregor Clegane and his bro were also cool

[Robotkiller]

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

GRRM will post an updated message, or so he says, the moment he finishes ADWD. And he's not touching it before then.


Sansa got more tolerable as the books went on. Er... rather, she was more tolerable starting at the end of A Storm of Swords. Mainly due to her eyes slowly opening to the realities of the world.

Anyways, I believe the novellas do have interesting tie-ins here and there to the main story, but are mostly separate. I've heard they're good, but I've never got around to them.

I still want Jon's mother to be Lyanna. ;_;


Everyone read this series (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=95032)!

I always thought Sansa's naivete was a good source of ironic humor.

Cersei is also always good for a laugh, she fancied herself so much cleverer than she actually was, and from the way Baelish referred to her at the end of AFFC it sounds like she's going to get offed soon.
Sir Davos didn't bite the big one:arg He was one of my favorite charcters.

[pek]

I know that she gets "smarter" as the time goes but now...god. She first pretends to forget the whole thing between Arya and Joffrey, then she betrays her father and goes to Cersei Lannister and spills out all of his plans, after that when her father have been imprisoned she's still dumb enough to cry for Joffrey's love and that she wants to bare his children etc knowing that her father may be killed by Lannisters, she then takes a huge step over the line and again betrays her family by sending out bullshit letters.

She should've died first tbh :I

[9Tail-Hokage]

Sansa's the retarded product of her spiteful mother Catelyn. She was always the spoiled child in the Stark family. She acted like she was royalty. Every other Stark child acted normally. I hate Catelyn for how she treated Jon, and I hate Sansa acted like that towards Jon just because her mother did. Her opinions of Jon are mostly her mothers. Form your own, woman. She's also very dumb. Understatement of the year. She went right to Cersei and spilled her fathers plans. So she's more than partially repsonsible for her fathers death. She thought Joffrey was brave, gallant heroic - pretty much the opposite of what this crazy sadistic bastard was. I also loved her blind lustful obsession for Joffrey. She learned her lesson hard. Her lesson should've been harder. God she was stupid, and I hated her chapters.

If anybody should die for committing multiple acts of Stupid as the crime, then Cersei and Sansa are at the top of that list.


And Davos is alive. A PoV character as important as Davos doesn't just die off without us reading it from his perspective. I've also read his spoilers from ADWD. He's alive.

[Dream Brother]

Amazing series.

[Suigetsu]

Yeah, sansa was pretty retarded, and Cercei aswell, those are probably the characters that piss me the most tought Joffrey was the one I hated the most.

I want to know more about house Dayne, it has always been a very badass house, and the DarkStar rocks! hell yeah! or at least for wath I have read so far In AFFC.

by the way why are there so many pedos in a song of ice and fire?

[Dionysus]

by the way why are there so many pedos in a song of ice and fire?
Realistic representation of past cultural mores.

[Raistlin-sama]

I have been hearing praises for this series the last 2 years, but only now did I finally pull myself together to read them. I can only say, why the fuck did I wait so long? Oh well, I guess that it at least means less waiting time for me.

Awesome books on every level. I can only add my voice to before-mentioned praise. Where to even start? The characters are great, although I'd have to say that I find Sansa quite annoying as well. But she did get better. And the way these characters through their actions weaves an intricate plot of epic proportions is a joy to read. But then fictional political intrigues and tensions has always been a favorite of mine. And feudal systems are great for conveying these things in an interesting manner.

My personal favorite characters are properly Tyrion, Arya and Daenerys. And to think I also found Dany to be an annoying character in the beginning and almost dreaded her chapters. What an awesome development, because making me like someone I have once decided was annoying is no easy task indeed. But lately Dany is just so...badass.

Well Tyrion is almost obvious. How can one not love his character and I did from day one.

But even though I have favorites almost everyone are great characters and it is becoming exceedingly rare that I am dreading chapters from certain POVs, which is of course a great achievement in and off itself.

Well a lot of free time (that means time where I should be preparing for my exams...) was properly what I needed to begin this. And oh how I needed it, because these books do not let go. So well, on to reading A Feast For Crows. ;)

[Robotkiller]

Realistic representation of past cultural mores.

That's a fancy way to say fanservice:drool

[pek]

Realistic representation of past cultural mores.
I actually believe that there is a clear difference between the ages in the series and the ages irl. Bran already grew a beard at 15, Jon seemed to be extremely mature for his age.

15 year old in the series = 20 irl
10 year old = 15 year old
5 year old = 10 year old

[Dionysus]

I actually believe that there is a clear difference between the ages in the series and the ages irl. Bran already grew a beard at 15, Jon seemed to be extremely mature for his age.

15 year old in the series = 20 irl
10 year old = 15 year old
5 year old = 10 year old
Bran? You mean Rob, right? (Can't remember how Rob's beard was described.) I think mental maturity was reached faster due to it being required at a younger age. (I know my grandfather never got past 3rd grade before he had to work.)

I'll not discount that it's a fantasy place with its own rules but... well, it was more acceptable 500 years ago or so. Since he started out his novels with everyone so young then scrapped the large time skip, characters like Arya will probably act older than would seem logical.

[Robotkiller]

Bran? You mean Rob, right? (Can't remember how Rob's beard was described.) I think mental maturity was reached faster due to it being required at a younger age. (I know my grandfather never got past 3rd grade before he had to work.)

I'll not discount that it's a fantasy place with its own rules but... well, it was more acceptable 500 years ago or so. Since he started out his novels with everyone so young then scrapped the large time skip, characters like Arya will probably act older than would seem logical.

Exactly. Back when the average age of death was in your early thirties you tend to grow up a little faster. Don't forget that the situations that they had to coup with would definitely shape their childhood.

[Gray Wolf]

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

GRRM will post an updated message, or so he says, the moment he finishes ADWD. And he's not touching it before then.


Sansa got more tolerable as the books went on. Er... rather, she was more tolerable starting at the end of A Storm of Swords. Mainly due to her eyes slowly opening to the realities of the world.

Anyways, I believe the novellas do have interesting tie-ins here and there to the main story, but are mostly separate. I've heard they're good, but I've never got around to them.

I still want Jon's mother to be Lyanna. ;_;


Everyone read this series (http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=95032)!
Are one of the fans that believe,
Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are Jon Snow's parents?

[Suigetsu]

I just finished a feast for crows and I must say that Darkstar its fucking badass; and I dont know why but I al starting to feel pity for Sansa Stark cause everyone its sexualy harrasing her, I think she could made a nice match with edric storm toght.

I hope Jeyne westerling is indeed carrying the young wolfs son

[Dionysus]

Are one of the fans that believe,
Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark are Jon Snow's parents?
Well, who else would be the father if Lyanna is the mother? :p

[Robotkiller]

I hope Jeyne westerling is indeed carrying the young wolfs son

I seriously doubt it. I mean, the mother did everything in her power to make sure that she didn't have a kid.

Furthermore, it's been a few months since the wedding, wouldn't she have displayed some signs of carrying the child since then?

Not saying it's impossible...just highly improbable.

[Dionysus]

Not that I think it will mean anything, in a legal sense, but I hope Jon gets Robb's will letter. Might give Jon some motivation and closure.

[Suigetsu]

Well, who else would be the father if Lyanna is the mother? :p

I think that looks improvable due to if he was targaryen blood then he would have white hair or other targaryen lineage signs.

I am not saying its not possible but very umprobable, and I still think it would be badass if hes mother was indeed the lady of house dayne, that would mean that he could be the hair to starfall, and besides the Daynes are one of the most badass houses out there.

[Dionysus]

I think that looks improvable due to if he was targaryen blood then he would have white hair or other targaryen lineage signs.

I am not saying its not possible but very umprobable, and I still think it would be badass if hes mother was indeed the lady of house dayne, that would mean that he could be the hair to starfall, and besides the Daynes are one of the most badass houses out there.

I think you mean improbable.

It's actually VERY probable. There is a LOT of hints suggesting it.

Off the top of my head: Jon and Arya are said to look alike, and Arya is said to look like Lyanna. There is the fact that THREE Kingsguards were out guarding Lyanna when they should have been with Rhaegar or the King. Then, she died in a BED OF BLOOD and made Ned promise something. Ned later said he's been living with a lie for 14 years, Jon's age. (Could be to protect Jon, lie so that Robert doesn't want to kill him.)

There is also dreams and visions that hint at it too. Like one, I think Dany had it, a blue rose (Lyanna's flower) growing out of a giant wall of ice. Jon's dreams about how he's not wecome in the Stark's crypts (even after Rob "removed" his taint of bastardy--I assume the spirit realm would have consented then, if he was a Stark bastard). Jon's gut feeling is that he'll never be a Stark even if a king were to remove his illegitimacy. There is the story that Meera tells Bran, about the young dragon giving the crown of roses not to his bride (or bride to be), but to the young wolf girl (Rhaegar was wooing Lyanna). I believe Dany also heard a prophecy about her having three heads to the dragon. She's one, who are the other two?

Any why would he have silver hair and violet eyes? (Ashara Dayne had violet eyes, by the way.) Dark hair and eyes can be dominant. I believe Rhaegar's other kids with Elia had dark hair and eyes. The Targaryen's kept their appearances by incest. Keeping the blood pure, as they said.

This is off the top of my head. There is more in the books. Just like there is some evidence for the others. But I really don't picture Eddard cheating on Catelyn, even if he didn't know her. He loved his brother too much to do that to his name (since she was meant for Brandon). (Jon wouldn't really be the heir to Starfall, as rights generally go father-son, but I guess he'd have a claim if he wanted to...)

[Suigetsu]

Now that I ve heard your point I must say you left me pretty convinced, Now I think that hes a targaryen bastard aswell.

Note:I think I readed somewhere in the books that The Dayne lady and eddard had a probably relationship during the tourney of, well dunno the name but jumping of the tower just because of hes brother died seems waay to much for me tought.
I think that your theory its better tought.

[Dionysus]

Note:I think I readed somewhere in the books that The Dayne lady and eddard had a probably relationship during the tourney of, well dunno the name but jumping of the tower just because of hes brother died seems waay to much for me tought.
I think that your theory its better tought.

Well, Martin could be misleading people. Anything is possible. :p To me, it really just makes more sense for Jon to be a Targaryen bastard. It resolves the mystery of Ned's promise and gives a legacy to the Lyanna and Rhaegar incident. Some people hate the idea and want something completely unexpected.

The only remaining survivor of the Tower of Joy fight, Howland Reed, will likely be the perfect source of this information. He has been mysteriously absent from the story thus far. As will Wylla. She might know more too.

If this is true about Jon, then it would have him in the centre of the reason why the Targaryens were dethroned. (Or, rather the catalyst.)

http://www.towerofthehand.com/articles/a/0011/

^^^ this link goes over a lot of the evidence.

Edit: And here's something I just noticed in A Feast for Crows: If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs.

This is Cersei and her council of nitwits planning to off the new Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. We will see whether Jon suspects anything. (I imagine he will.) This could be Martin dropping a hint about uncertain parentage. Cersei sees Jon as Eddard's son, the son of a foolish man of blind honour.

[Freiza]

i have read a bit of this book but i dont remember though....

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

who do u think should be the other two heads of the Dragons ? I cant decide on anyone .... all the characters are too good.
I also cant wait for the three (main) surivours of the Stark family (Sansa, Arya and Bran) to get meet each other. That would be awesome. the way i see things ......
Tyrion will meet Daenyrs and become her main councellor in the Game of Thrones. Sansa will learn her trade from the Littlefinger:nod and bran and Arya will be the two linchpins on which house stark mounts its challenge to the Iron throne ... and it will be a battle between these two ..... or according to the prophecies, these two houses will join together to fight at the wall ....... but i really would like Tyrion+Daenyrs+Dragons Vs Sansa+Arya+Bran:nuts

[Freiza]

I have the feeling Arya is going to be uber in the end.

[crazymtf]

Just started reading the series. I'm enjoying it so far. Switching characters helps the flow of the story though a bit to much introduced at a time, lol.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Read on ...... you will love it. Even though the author is a lazy bastard

GRRM updated his blog ..... saying he will update it once he is finished with the book ...

Like i havent seen that trick before :notrust

here is the link :

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

[Nakor]

yeah. the last update before this said the same thing. i didn't know about him rotating chapters from the new book on the site. i will have to start checking them out.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

lol, they are just three chapters .....

I wont be satisfied with those morsels

Get the full book out dammit :mad :yell .... :arg

[Nakor]

lol, they are just three chapters .....

3 chapters is something to wet our appetites with til the book comes.

[Dream Brother]

I had no clue that he was posting chapters on his site -- I just read the Jon one, great stuff. His writing skills really are top notch.

[Robotkiller]

^
Too bad he writes at the speed of a crippled, autistic monkey.

[Dream Brother]

^
Too bad he writes at the speed of a crippled, autistic monkey.

The glass is half empty, eh?

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

I agree with Robotkiller on this one .....

It is just irresponsible .... he writes well, but he doesnt have the whole thing in his head.

This is gonna go just like Wheel of Time :mad

[Saruto]

I just recently got into reading them and I've just finished A Feast For Crows...awesome book. So...topic!!! :nuts

[Daenerys]

You can tell from my username that I believe George R.R. Martin is awesome. He is my favorite author in his genre, regardless of how much my brother tries to bully me into believing Robert Jordan is the best.


:awesome I say continue till the end, you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Dream Brother]

/edit because thread was merged.

[pek]

Fanclub btw:
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=110243

[Saruto]

Also I think it's pretty much canon that Jon Snow is really Jon Targaryen by Rhaegar and Lyanna. I mean way to make it like...obvious GRRM.:laugh

[Sho]

He looks like Ned, just like Arya, so I don't think so. Plus he lacks the eyes.

[Saruto]

Yea, but the deal breaker is why the hell were THREE Kingsguard guarding Lyanna? It makes sense if they were guarding the last male heir to the throne. Since Dany hasn't been born/is being born. The whole bed of blood thing? The fact that Ned says he only told ONE lie his entire life? The fact that he laments Robert's hatred of Targaryens since they really didn't do anything wrong. Other than Aerys that is. The freakin title of the series. Ice = Jon, Fire = Dany. Both of them are shaping up to be main characters more or less. Jon is definitely more than he appears.

Also on an unrelated note, why does half of Dorne look like Targaryens? Edric Dayne, Darkstar (awesome moniker btw), Ashara Dayne...actually it's just the Daynes really. I thought the Martells married the dragons not the Daynes.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Well, let GRRM come out with the next book. I may think about rereading the last one then.

Steven Erikson is the best author in Fantasy right now :pek

[isanon]

Anyone else read this series (besides Arilou, who I know is a fan)? I really hope so, because it is, hands down, the best fantasy series being published today, and if it maintains its current brilliance, is a possible contender for best fantasy series of all time.

Think of all those staples of fantasy: the destined hero, the princess who loves the peasant, the wise old magical mentor, powerful wizards, weak hordes of monstrous enemies, dark lords,

thats how long i rasd berore i stoped ...maby i ought to finnish the first book before entering this thread again. ( i have only read like 30 pages in the first book)

[isanon]

The glass is half empty, eh?
the glass is half empty if it is being drained and half full if its being filled :)

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

well, I agree that GRRM has a good story and is probably the best in terms of creating Characters.

You will probably enjoy the first three books thoroughly .... the fourth book had a lot of filler IMO :(

[Saruto]

But that's cause he split the books in half. The Brienne chapters were ass boring though. The only good POV's were Jaime because he has a freakin golden hand, Cersei because I like to laugh at her idiocy, and Ser Hyle Hunt. He's the man.

[Batman]

Everything about the craken wars was boring as shit. I almost skipped those chapters every time.

[Nakor]

after reading jon's chapter on grrm's site...i am soo pumped for the 5th book.

i didn't think the craken wars was boring...but it wasn't the most exciting thing about the book.

[Saruto]

The most exciting part of the book was when Cersei fucked Taena :edu

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Everything about the craken wars was boring as shit. I almost skipped those chapters every time.

I didnt mind Craken too much :amuse .....Btw, did you read the 24th chapter of the second/third book ?
It has Theon Greyjoy's POV and he meets up with this awesome girl ... :drool
That was the most exciting part of that book :sag

The most exciting part of the book was when Cersei fucked Taena :edu

Qutoed for truth :zaru

[Dionysus]

He looks like Ned, just like Arya, so I don't think so. Plus he lacks the eyes.
Jon and Arya look alike. Arya is stated to look like Lyanna. That's how it was presented. I can't remember is Rhaegar's and Elia's children had violet eyes. (Ashara Dayne had violet eyes...) I think the Targaryen traits were kept for so many generations due to incest.

Anyways, there is lots of evidence given over the books to support Jon being a Targaryen bastard. We'll find out in a decade.

[FoolyCooly]

But that's cause he split the books in half. The Brienne chapters were ass boring though. The only good POV's were Jaime because he has a freakin golden hand, Cersei because I like to laugh at her idiocy, and Ser Hyle Hunt. He's the man.

Don't forget the Arya chapters, all 2 or 3 of them. Through the entire book I was hoping that the next chapter would be an Arya chapter. She is probably my favorite character.

And I'm assuming or at least hoping that there was a point to Brienne's storyline that will be revealed later, because it would have been a waste of paper if there wasn't.

[Batman]

I enjoyed the Sansa chapters as well. Little Finger's a trip.

[FoolyCooly]

I find Sansa annoying, though I do think she has the potential to be a good character if Littlefinger continues to train her in the ways of devious scheming and plotting. Though I'm pretty sure he has no intention of letting her off of his leash, she's just another piece in his game.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Don't forget the Arya chapters, all 2 or 3 of them. Through the entire book I was hoping that the next chapter would be an Arya chapter. She is probably my favorite character.

And I'm assuming or at least hoping that there was a point to Brienne's storyline that will be revealed later, because it would have been a waste of paper if there wasn't.

Arya is my fav. character too ..... :iria

[Nakor]

i hope there is more arya chapters in the next book. im not sure why they were even in the 4th book since it dealt with the chacactors that were on westeros and she wasn't...

[Dionysus]

i hope there is more arya chapters in the next book. im not sure why they were even in the 4th book since it dealt with the chacactors that were on westeros and she wasn't...
There will be.

[Saruto]

Arya's chapters are pretty awesome I agree. She's training to be a ninja! Sansa is starting to be a little better since Littlefinger is schooling her to be ebbbbbiiiiiiilllllll. I wonder what his true game is. Also when he said the "3 queens" Did he mean Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella? Or Cersei, Margaery and Danaerys?

[FoolyCooly]

Arya's chapters are pretty awesome I agree. She's training to be a ninja! Sansa is starting to be a little better since Littlefinger is schooling her to be ebbbbbiiiiiiilllllll. I wonder what his true game is. Also when he said the "3 queens" Did he mean Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella? Or Cersei, Margaery and Danaerys?
He could have meant Margaery, Myrcella, and Dany since he knew that Cersei would be out of the picture fairly quickly.

[Batman]

He wasn't talking about Myrcella. Just the three publicly known queens.

[Dionysus]

He wasn't talking about Myrcella. Just the three publicly known queens.
Dany isn't quite publicly known. That's part of Littlefinger's plan. He knows there is another player across the globe who will be joining soon. Whereas Cersei and others have no clue. (My memory is blurry, but I distinctly remember her ignoring the warnings about Dany. Also trying to assassinate Jon. What a bitch.)

It's a possibility he does know what the Dornish would do, having the female--the oldest--and their laws about succession being gender neutral. Having said that, Myrcella's claim was basically ended once Dany's existence was made known to that other Dornish woman whose name is escaping me. The heiress to Dorn. (They must now hide the Darkstar's assassination attempt from King's Landing.)

[Saruto]

Littlefinger sort of reminds me of Orochimaru in that he thrives in chaos and turmoil. Also, I believe he has a plan that is deliciously evil and will spread it wings like the bat of Lothston in either ADwD or The Winds of Winter.

[Dream Brother]

I like Oro, but Littlefinger is far smarter than him.

[Moses]

Personally, I've never even heard of this series. I'd be willing to look it over, though. It cetainly looks very, very interesting ^_^

[Dream Brother]

Personally, I've never even heard of this series. I'd be willing to look it over, though. It cetainly looks very, very interesting ^_^

Definitely, go for it. In my opinion it’s the best fantasy series running at the moment.

A couple of people will disagree with me and go for Erikson or Lynch, but I think Martin is at the top of the pack. I tend to love a focus on character psyche and their gradual fleshing out/emotional development as events unfold rather than the ‘big picture’, and I think he’s the best at exploring this out of all the current fantasy authors.

[Moses]

^Wow, thanks. Yeah, really sounds awesome.

[Saruto]

Definitely, go for it. In my opinion it’s the best fantasy series running at the moment.

A couple of people will disagree with me and go for Erikson or Lynch, but I think Martin is at the top of the pack. I tend to love a focus on character psyche and their gradual fleshing out/emotional development as events unfold rather than the ‘big picture’, and I think he’s the best at exploring this out of all the current fantasy authors.

Definitely. I mean, who else could make a dwarf the most badass character ever?

[Saruto]

So is Dance confirmed for Sept. 30th?

[Batman]

Was the information released on his site?

[Saruto]

No, it's the Bantam publisher date. I read it was arbitrarily picked though. I cried. :cry

[Cardboard Jewsuke]

Well, on recommendation by my brother (who is through book 4) I picked this up last month, and finished the first book. Frankly, it was excellent. most refreshing was that no charecter is immune to death (Except Bran, Jon, and Dany I just can't see any of them dieng before the end of the last book), though I wish a few of them had been.

Anyhow, after enjpying it, in my wait till I could pick up book #2, I went Wikipedia-surfing.... and read about stuff lke the Red Wedding, and Joffrey. now that I actually have book #2, I cannot find the will to read much of it, since the Starks (the coolest set of charecters, cept maybe Tyrion) are falling apart at the seams.

So after being ridiculed by my brother for looking at spoilers, I am sitting here in a dilemia tryign to decided if it is worth it. I knowthe series is titles with "Ice and Fire" (Starks and Dany) but I dont know how he will be able to pull that together for a decent final confrontation between the two in only 3 more books.

Ah well, i'll get around to it eventually. maybe plow through the next 3 books right beforethe 5th comes out, and keep going so I cannot spoil mysef again.

[Gray Wolf]

I liked Areo Hotah's chapter, I think he is an interesting character.

[Saruto]

^OMFG GREY WIND IS POSTING ON NF!?!?!/

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

wait, is Dance of the Dragons finally releasing :omg ??

does anyone have links/details ??

the wait has been too long :cry

[Cardboard Jewsuke]

wait, is Dance of the Dragons finally releasing :omg ??

does anyone have links/details ??

the wait has been too long :cry

Yes, the very end of September. I'll hunt down a link for you shortly.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

Yes, the very end of September. I'll hunt down a link for you shortly.

Thanks a bunch :grin
Finally, we can get our hands on Dance of the Dragons. I have two books to wait for this year then :dance :spaz
Dance of the Dragons by GRRM and Toll the hounds by Steven Erikson

[Batman]

So there is a date!! All right.

[Nakor]

Yes, the very end of September. I'll hunt down a link for you shortly.

where did you see that? i just looked on his website and I don't see anything about it being finished or a specific date of release.

[crazymtf]

So still on book 1, i know i'm a slow as shit reader :P But I'm still enjoying it :)

[Cardboard Jewsuke]

where did you see that? i just looked on his website and I don't see anything about it being finished or a specific date of release.

Sorry for the delayed response, my roomate got Pneumonia, so I have been taking care of him.

Now I gotta hunt it down again. Hopefully a few sites were nto just throing up bogus dates on me.

Edit: Still giving me issues, but Barnes & Nobles is holding an On-line forum tommorow, and for a few days thereafter, with him, so will try and get in there and check it out:

http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/2726/

According to his blog, he hasn't turned the manuscript in yet, nor has he announced a publication date, which he promised to do the moment he knew anything. That September 30 date was pulled out of a hat, I think.

awww.....

[Dionysus]

Yes. The book is NOT finished. When he finishes it, he will announce it here: http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

We'll (have the possibility to) know after his wife and publishers.

[Cardboard Jewsuke]

Yes. The book is NOT finished. When he finishes it, he will announce it here: http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html

We'll (have the possibility to) know after his wife and publishers.

Despite his promise, he rarely updates it for anything, so I am not holding my breath.

[Nakor]

Despite his promise, he rarely updates it for anything, so I am not holding my breath.

I think he will update it. It is a pretty big deal if he does finish it.

Based on his last entry in the update, there is a good chance that the book could be in stores by the end of this year. That is all I am hoping for.

[Dionysus]

He doesn't update it anymore since he's sick of updating. The next one will be "FINISHED". He wouldn't hold back the fact that he's finished. He's the kind of author that would want everyone as pumped as he would be. Also, publishers and book sellers are notorious for giving guesstimate dates for book releases.

He continues to give updates on the novel in his blog. Should be some months before he's finished.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

I am sick of waiting ... as are most of you guys i guess.

I really hate his balls for stuffing the fourth book with filler and still managing to delay the fifth book for so long :mad

Thanks for the effort Daffut .... :)

[Nakor]

I really hate his balls for stuffing the fourth book with filler and still managing to delay the fifth book for so long :mad


I don't think the 4th book was stuffed with filler. it just wasn't stuffed with jon, dany, tyrion, or bran...which is what we all want to read about.

[Batman]

I'm not quite as mad cause I JUST read the books last year. Then one of my gf's bought me the first 3 books on cd's. So I'm still good to go. :box

I've still got to find the Malazan series, if I can ever get my ass over to the local library.

[Saruto]

I'm going to read the Sword of Truth series for the lulz until Dance comes. Book is great for lulzy reading. I just finished Blood of the Fold, lol.

['REDHAIRED' SHANKS]

I don't think the 4th book was stuffed with filler. it just wasn't stuffed with jon, dany, tyrion, or bran...which is what we all want to read about.

That is why I called it filler :P

I am not averse to new characters being introduced every book. I rate Malazan book of the Fallen higher than ASoLaF and that series introduces new civilizations, never mind a few characters, with new books.

[Batman]

That is why I called it filler :P

I am not averse to new characters being introduced every book. I rate Malazan book of the Fallen higher than ASoLaF and that series introduces new civilizations, never mind a few characters, with new books.

lol I agree with you to a point. The dornish stuff was alright, but the kracken wars were dull as hell to me. I was wishing for Jon and Tyrion and danny.




EDIT: Does anyone else think that Loras was gay for Renly? He was talking about his first love, and I thought that if it's not Margery, which it might be, its Renly.

[Nakor]

lol I agree with you to a point. The dornish stuff was alright, but the kracken wars were dull as hell to me. I was wishing for Jon and Tyrion and danny.




EDIT: Does anyone else think that Loras was gay for Renly? He was talking about his first love, and I thought that if it's not Margery, which it might be, its Renly.

i do agree. the kraken wars were very boring. i did enjoy the dornish chapters though. thought they were pretty interesting.

I do. I do. I thought it was pretty obvious that was what g.r.r.m was going for with those two.

[Gray Wolf]

I thought most of the Greyjoy chapters were boring, although I did think Euron was an interesting character.

[Saruto]

lol I agree with you to a point. The dornish stuff was alright, but the kracken wars were dull as hell to me. I was wishing for Jon and Tyrion and danny.




EDIT: Does anyone else think that Loras was gay for Renly? He was talking about his first love, and I thought that if it's not Margery, which it might be, its Renly.

Loras and Renly were confirmed to be gay. GRRM posted it on his blog I think. Loras was uke. :hehee

[Nakor]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553801473/ref=s9int_c6_at1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0399SKQ12FAVADC9GCKX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=371408701&pf_rd_i=507846

Just saw this on amazon!!!!! I looked at his blog, and the ice and fire update on his website but there weren't any updates on it there. maybe this is just a tenative announcement?

edit: i am reading his centerstage responses in the B&N book club(http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/bn/board/message?board.id=CenterStage&thread.id=1147&view=by_date_ascending&page=1) and I thought I would quote this, it is very very true. But also hilarious how he says it.

I do get occasional letters from readers who object to the sexual content in the books... but oddly enough, no one seems to object to the violence. It is a sad commentary on American society that there are people who will be outraged by a description of a penis entering a vagina, but not troubled at all by a description of an axe entering a head.

[Batman]

Downn with violence! Up with sex! ^^

Loras and Renly were confirmed to be gay. GRRM posted it on his blog I think. Loras was uke.

lol. Glad to know I was correct about what I'm sure was 6 year old news. :gailee

[Nakor]

Thought I'd revive this.

It seems A Dance with Dragons will likely not be released on Sept 30th. He was supposed to finish it in June for it to be released that date, but as expected he still hasn't finished the book.

He is in freakin Spain now promoting himself, so he probably isn't working on the book now either.

I am rereading A Game of Thrones and I must say, it has renewed my love for the series. The author still pisses me off though. haha.

[Batman]

lol I think he probably put it aside to give himself some distance from the story. He might have been growing to hate it himself. Here's hoping for him to get over it and get back to work. :pek . . . :P

[Dionysus]

I sent an email to the guy, asking some questions. He answered them then pimped some of his other works in response to my support for his slow pace. (This was just after a blog entry about "fans" harrying him.) What a huckster.

[Anon]

I bought his short story collection, or one of them at least, iv not had a chance to look at it properly yet, seems like it has a diverse range of stuff.

[Cardboard Jewsuke]

I sent an email to the guy, asking some questions. He answered them then pimped some of his other works in response to my support for his slow pace. (This was just after a blog entry about "fans" harrying him.) What a huckster.

I am just suprised you got a response.

[Felix]

Finished reading A Storm of Swords.
I'm pretty pissed with Robb's closure :uwah

He won the battles yet he lost the war...
Reluctant in reading A Feast for Crows, I guess I'll wait for A Dance with Dragons and read them both

[Dionysus]

I am just suprised you got a response.
Took several months. I imagine he has quite a full inbox. He responded before he hired an assistant to help him with emails and things, so I'm fairly certain it's actually him.

Too bad I lost the email when my laptop broke. :awesome

[Nakor]

Took several months. I imagine he has quite a full inbox. He responded before he hired an assistant to help him with emails and things, so I'm fairly certain it's actually him.

Too bad I lost the email when my laptop broke. :awesome

Bummer. I was about to ask you about it

[Dionysus]

Finish the book, George (http://grrrm.livejournal.com/)

[Lord Yu]

Loras and Renly were confirmed to be gay. GRRM posted it on his blog I think. Loras was uke. :hehee

lulz, I did not think about that. Maybe because deep in my perverted mind I was hoping for more incest lolz:(

[Cardboard Jewsuke]

Finish the book, George (http://grrrm.livejournal.com/)

Lol, I was just thinking about this 2 days ago, and went to check. Still it's a "Hopefully it will be out by April" projected date. Quite frustrating.

[Nakor]

Finish the book, George (http://grrrm.livejournal.com/)

Haha. that site is great. i'm going to spend some time reading it today.

How George R.R. Martin spends his time. (http://pics.livejournal.com/grrrm/pic/00003f7z/) :lmao

[Lord Yu]

I've spent four years writing the same book.(Still not even closed to finished:awesome) So I could understand if he didn't say it was practically fucking finished.

[martryn]

I've decided to start posting in this thread. I'm a third of the way through book three and loving the series so far. I guess I'll have a bit of time to read other things while I wait on book five. Eager to join future discussions, as I'll be caught up with the series very, very soon.

[Nae'blis]

I read it, found it kind of interesting but not something I would consider a favorite. My brothers been trying to convince me otherwise for a while now.

[Nakor]

i like how it feels more real to me and how almost no character is safe from dying. i also like how magic is very rare and sort of like a fairy tale to the population.

[Dragonus Nesha]

I'm a third of the way through book three and loving the series so far. I guess I'll have a bit of time to read other things while I wait on book five. Eager to join future discussions, as I'll be caught up with the series very, very soon.:woo
I read it, found it kind of interesting but not something I would consider a favorite.How far into the series did you read?

[martryn]

Yeah, that's what really distinguishes it from other fantasy series I've read. The books have a gritty realism to them. The characters are readily identifiable, and even the bad guys aren't really bad, just working toward opposite goals, a lot of the time.

I can't really say that I'm a bigger fan of Song of Ice and Fire than I am the Wheel of Time. To me they're in totally different genres. It's like comparing either of them to Catch-22 or the works of Murakami.

[Freija]

Well, the biggest reason I like and sometimes dislike ASoIF is the complete lack of plot protection, I love it cause it adds much more realism, hate it because, well Eddard =(


Mostly love it though.

[Nakor]

Well, the biggest reason I like and sometimes dislike ASoIF is the complete lack of plot protection, I love it cause it adds much more realism, hate it because, well Eddard =(


Mostly love it though.

i liked eddard, but in that type of world his fate would certainly be death when he plays the game of thrones.

:lmao. i love how i just used the title of the first book.

[martryn]

Well, halfway through the third book now. It's interesting because so far no one character has come out as being centered in the book yet. A Game of Thrones seemed centered around what was happening with Eddard, and A Clash of Kings seemed centered around what was going on with Tyrion, this book doesn't yet have it's "main" character. Maybe Arya will see more action in this book. She seemed to get a lot of time early in the second book, but then sorta disappeared in the second half.

[Dream Brother]

He needs to get that next book out. Been bloody ages.

I do love this series, though. He's a terrific writer.

[Moonshine]

I read the first three books, loved them but its kinda hard to remember whats going on. I'll get the fourth book sometime. My favorite character is Jon:)

[martryn]

I'm not really having any trouble remembering what's happening or who is who. With such a large cast, you'd think it'd be hard to do, but I'm able to keep things in line pretty easy. The only people I get confused on are members of the Kingsguard.

[Moonshine]

I haven't read them in awhile, and i read so much i get books mixed up. I have tried rereading the series, but i tend to stop and read something else. I kinda can remember where all the characters are at the end of the third book, but can't remember whats happened to them before hand.

[martryn]

You can always check out the wiki. That's what I did with the Wheel of Time when I took a three year break before starting book 8.

[Moonshine]

Yeah i should probably do that. It will be a lot faster then rereading the books.

[Freija]

i liked eddard, but in that type of world his fate would certainly be death when he plays the game of thrones.

:lmao. i love how i just used the title of the first book.
Not just the title, but a saying :argh
Well, halfway through the third book now. It's interesting because so far no one character has come out as being centered in the book yet. A Game of Thrones seemed centered around what was happening with Eddard, and A Clash of Kings seemed centered around what was going on with Tyrion, this book doesn't yet have it's "main" character. Maybe Arya will see more action in this book. She seemed to get a lot of time early in the second book, but then sorta disappeared in the second half.I thought Storm of Swords(My favourite of the series) was centered around Jon. But you said you were halfway you might notice this later on.

He needs to get that next book out. Been bloody ages.

I do love this series, though. He's a terrific writer.Indeed, and what's even worse he hasn't even given us an update about his writing in "not a blog" for months =(

I read the first three books, loved them but its kinda hard to remember whats going on. I'll get the fourth book sometime. My favorite character is Jon:)The fourth book may start very slow but you'll ease into it(the fourth book and the fifth upcoming were to be one book, but he had to split it up, and put the north and the other countries mostly in the fifth book and took the rest of westeros mostly in the fourth) it does however give you many new loveable characters <3

I'm not really having any trouble remembering what's happening or who is who. With such a large cast, you'd think it'd be hard to do, but I'm able to keep things in line pretty easy. The only people I get confused on are members of the Kingsguard.
That's another thing I love, I just melted all the information down in my head, I remember it all even being so long since I read the books (a year, re-read a few chapters by themselves but not the books in entirety).
I haven't read them in awhile, and i read so much i get books mixed up. I have tried rereading the series, but i tend to stop and read something else. I kinda can remember where all the characters are at the end of the third book, but can't remember whats happened to them before hand.
I suggest a re-read =) or wikipedia.

[Moonshine]

The fourth book may start very slow but you'll ease into it(the fourth book and the fifth upcoming were to be one book, but he had to split it up, and put the north and the other countries mostly in the fifth book and took the rest of westeros mostly in the fourth) it does however give you many new loveable characters <3

I suggest a re-read =) or wikipedia.

Yeah, i remember reading about that. There are certain characters left out, right? I think it was Jon, Dany, and someone else...

I'll probably do wiki- the books are to long to re-read when i have school:(

[Freija]

It's not that they're left out, it's that they have like a chapter or two, or so because that book focuses mainly on characters south of the north :LOS which is why ADWD will be a pure win book :argh

[Nakor]

It's not that they're left out, it's that they have like a chapter or two, or so because that book focuses mainly on characters south of the north :LOS which is why ADWD will be a pure win book :argh

YES! all of my favorite characters are going to be in the 5th book. its soo exciting. which has made waiting for it, just awful.

[Freija]

Yeah, the wait is so much worse because it includes only favourite characters :argh

[Nakor]

i think jon snow is going to kick some serious ass.

Dany's will be great too, especially if she starts planning an invasion.

[Dionysus]

I really don't know what the problem is. I think he lost a lot of the passion he had for the series, but that's just a guess. He has so many projects on the go that it seems he wants to distract himself from the "big one" for a while. He was partially finished ADWD when book 4 came out since he originally wrote AFFC with ADWD chapters in it.

I don't mind waiting. (So long as he doesn't die before finishing. I'm really glad I got tired of WoT.) I just find grrrm.livejournal funny for the rants. Similar incredulous thoughts that passed through my head too.

Man, it really has been years. I've been discussing the "Jon is a Targaryen bastard" and other such theories for ages. :arg Seems like a past life.

[Freija]

I wonder how all this will end, GRRM already said that he was planning to get all the still living POV characters together in the end meeting each other.... How would that go, Jon can't die, because... well the fans would ransack him :argh

So, will said meeting take place at the wall, or has the wall burnt down or something ? Or did he somehow magically get relieved from duty ?

I believe the song of Ice and Fire has something to do with dragons and the wall :pek



As for ADWD, I wonder how it'll make Jon look, and nonetheless IS ARYA PERMANENTLY BLIND?


I really don't know what the problem is. I think he lost a lot of the passion he had for the series, but that's just a guess. He has so many projects on the go that it seems he wants to distract himself from the "big one" for a while. He was partially finished ADWD when book 4 came out since he originally wrote AFFC with ADWD chapters in it.

I don't mind waiting. (So long as he doesn't die before finishing. I'm really glad I got tired of WoT.) I just find grrrm.livejournal funny for the rants. Similar incredulous thoughts that passed through my head too.

Man, it really has been years. I've been discussing the "Jon is a Targaryen bastard" and other such theories for ages. Seems like a past life.If anything I doubt Jon is a bastard, a forced wedding could've taken place...


As for GRRM I also feel he's lost his love for the series, I wish someone would ask him about this, because... well 3 years =/ And it was set for release... actually a few days ago in the start of this year, but was delayed... yet again.

[Nakor]

I wonder how all this will end, GRRM already said that he was planning to get all the still living POV characters together in the end meeting each other.... How would that go, Jon can't die, because... well the fans would ransack him :argh

So, will said meeting take place at the wall, or has the wall burnt down or something ? Or did he somehow magically get relieved from duty ?

I believe the song of Ice and Fire has something to do with dragons and the wall :pek


i always figured jon would leave the wall at some point, not leave it as stop being the commander, but leave it as going to get help. that he would end up at kings landing at some point later in the story.

i'm with you on the meaning of song of ice and fire.

As for ADWD, I wonder how it'll make Jon look, and nonetheless IS ARYA PERMANENTLY BLIND?

jon will be win
why would she be blind? i forget what happened.

If anything I doubt Jon is a bastard, a forced wedding could've taken place...
i don't think he is a bastard. i don't think the wedding would have been forced either. it was implied that they loved each other so it probably happened secretly.

the chapter where eddard is remembering what happened when he went to rescue lyanna(sp?) is sooo fucking good. the sword of morning and the white bull would fuck up any of the current kings guards. seriously, go reread it now, you won't be disappointed.

As for GRRM I also feel he's lost his love for the series, I wish someone would ask him about this, because... well 3 years =/ And it was set for release... actually a few days ago in the start of this year, but was delayed... yet again.
i think so too, and its sad because its by far his best work. i wish he would stop with all these wild cards books.

[Freija]

i always figured jon would leave the wall at some point, not leave it as stop being the commander, but leave it as going to get help. that he would end up at kings landing at some point later in the story.

i'm with you on the meaning of song of ice and fire.
True, but as the Lord Commander it's even harder for him to leave the wall.

jon will be win
why would she be blind? i forget what happened.

She turned back to Arya Stark and killed a person, the "priest" had her drink some milk, she woke up the next morning blind... that's where we left her.
i don't think he is a bastard. i don't think the wedding would have been forced either. it was implied that they loved each other so it probably happened secretly.
Well, that is true, and I agree to that, I believe she went there of free will, that Jon is a trueblood Targaryen and Stark (Ice and Fire anyone ?) but this is just speculation unfortunantly.
the chapter where eddard is remembering what happened when he went to rescue lyanna(sp?) is sooo fucking good. the sword of morning and the white bull would fuck up any of the current kings guards. seriously, go reread it now, you won't be disappointed.

I remember it :argh how could I ever forget :argh and what's even better is that Jaime even admits it, him with all his arrogance says "The Sword of Morning could've slain this kings guard by himself
i think so too, and its sad because its by far his best work. i wish he would stop with all these wild cards books.
Agreed, he has too many side projects, while I'm sure they're good, he needs to think more of the people he's kept waiting for 3 years, the ones eagerly attending the conventions he goes to, the ones who buy his books, post and visit his site and buy his merchandise. =/

[martryn]

I thought Storm of Swords(My favourite of the series) was centered around Jon. But you said you were halfway you might notice this later on.

Yeah, like I said, A Clash of Kings seemed centered around what was going on with Arya, but she was absent in most of the second half of the book.

Man, it really has been years. I've been discussing the "Jon is a Targaryen bastard" and other such theories for ages.

Yeah, I'm banking on the theory that Jon is the son of Lyanna and... was it Rhaegar? Being only on the third book, I'm not sure if Lyanna's secret to Eddard has been revealed yet, but I'm thinking that might be it. But who else would know so the readers would find out..?

seriously, go reread it now, you won't be disappointed.

Oh, that must be in the first book. Does anyone know the page number?

[Freija]

There is only one more person who knows it, but he's yet to be introduced (like, talked or even seen) in the books.


The small crannogman who was with Eddard at the time, the only one else who left the tower.

[martryn]

The small crannogman who was with Eddard at the time, the only one else who left the tower.

What? Does that have something to do with the story Meera told Bran when they were in the mountains traveling to the wall? Man, I need to read more, I guess.

[Dionysus]

Meera and Jojen's dad. He was at the Tower of Joy with Eddard. Only he and Eddard survived to see Lyanna on her bed of blood.

Howland! That's it.

Meera's story only touches on Rhaegar wooing Lyanna.

[Freija]

Hmm, it seems to me that I have to re-read, I know what you're talking about, but not precisely.

Meera and Jojen's dad. He was at the Tower of Joy with Eddard. Only he and Eddard survived to see Lyanna on her bed of blood.Didn't they discuss that event ? I mean Meera and Bran.

[martryn]

Howland Reed? So, where do I have to go to get that story? Have I already read it but passed it by as being inconsequential at the time?

[Freija]

We haven't gotten Howland Reed to tell the truth, but Eddard talks about him and Howland Reed being the only survivors, and the only people to witness Lyannas last request in the first Eddard chapter.

[martryn]

I'ma gonna readcha now.

[Freija]

You do that :argh, I'm going to start re-reading A Clash of Kings now =)

[Moonshine]

It's not that they're left out, it's that they have like a chapter or two, or so because that book focuses mainly on characters south of the north :LOS which is why ADWD will be a pure win book :argh

Oh ok. Well, i guess as long as they are somewhat in it it'll be okay because i heard all my favorite characters weren't going to be in it.

[Dionysus]

I don't think Meera mentions the Tower of Joy at all. Eddard recalled it in the first book.

Meera's story is about the Eddard meeting Ashara Dayne and the tourney. It happened before Lyanna was abducted. They skipped over what happens to the wolf maiden when Bran asks.

This is mildly spoilery for Martryn, so I'll stop.

[Freija]

Oh ok. Well, i guess as long as they are somewhat in it it'll be okay because i heard all my favorite characters weren't going to be in it.

They'll appear, very briefly :(


However new loveable characters will appear, not to mention that Sansa is starting to redeem herself

[Nakor]

True, but as the Lord Commander it's even harder for him to leave the wall.
true. maybe the wall will fall and he will have to retreat to get help to retake it.
She turned back to Arya Stark and killed a person, the "priest" had her drink some milk, she woke up the next morning blind... that's where we left her.
oh yea! i doubt it made her permenantly blind. probably just to teach her a lesson and also to teach her to use her other senses. maybe by being blind, she will learn how to change her face?

Well, that is true, and I agree to that, I believe she went there of free will, that Jon is a trueblood Targaryen and Stark (Ice and Fire anyone ?) but this is just speculation unfortunantly.

i think its the most popular speculation for jon's heritage though. jon being a trueblood targaryen will allow him to be one of the dragonriders :LOS

I remember it :argh how could I ever forget :argh and what's even better is that Jaime even admits it, him with all his arrogance says "The Sword of Morning could've slain this kings guard by himself

if those 3 would have been at the trident, i'm not so sure robert would have won.

Agreed, he has too many side projects, while I'm sure they're good, he needs to think more of the people he's kept waiting for 3 years, the ones eagerly attending the conventions he goes to, the ones who buy his books, post and visit his site and buy his merchandise. =/

agreed. he has all of these fans because of ASOIF. not because of his other projects. he needs to make the priority number one.

[Freija]

true. maybe the wall will fall and he will have to retreat to get help to retake it. [quote]Yeah, that would be awesome.
[QUOTE]
oh yea! i doubt it made her permenantly blind. probably just to teach her a lesson and also to teach her to use her other senses. maybe by being blind, she will learn how to change her face?

That is what I've theorized about :argh and praying D: Imagine blind Arya though :LOS

i think its the most popular speculation for jon's heritage though. jon being a trueblood targaryen will allow him to be one of the dragonriders :LOS

Not to mention he's the best candidate for the Iron Throne, marriage with Daeny, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand could be the promised prince that has apparently been predicted in more than one religion.

if those 3 would have been at the trident, i'm not so sure robert would have won.


Don't really know about that, we don't know how great the armies was on Robert's side, not to mention their strategy obviously defeated Rhaegars.
agreed. he has all of these fans because of ASOIF. not because of his other projects. he needs to make the priority number one.
At least now when it's been three years... I mean one year, two years, It's ok to take a break once in awhile from one book, but three years, going on four in a few months.. I mean come on.

Patience has it's limits.

[Moonshine]

They'll appear, very briefly :(


However new loveable characters will appear, not to mention that Sansa is starting to redeem herself

Thats awesome, more characters:)

I don't really like Sansa. Or most of her siblings, actually. Only the youngest and Jon.

[martryn]

They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it.

Man, how is a guy expected to remember three sentences from the fourth chapter of the first book? And it makes it seem as if Reed wasn't present in the room at the time, but maybe I'm misreading it.

This is mildly spoilery for Martryn, so I'll stop.

You don't have to. I've already worked that out for the most part.

i think its the most popular speculation for jon's heritage though. jon being a trueblood targaryen will allow him to be one of the dragonriders

So maybe Jon is really Prince Aegon saved, and they made an elaborate lie about his death.

[Freija]

You like Rickon and Jon ? Not Arya :arghThey had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it.

Man, how is a guy expected to remember three sentences from the fourth chapter of the first book? And it makes it seem as if Reed wasn't present in the room at the time, but maybe I'm misreading it.Well, true but he's the only one who might have an idea about it, don't you agree ?


I liked most of the Starks (and Snow)

except for Rickon, fucking spoiled brat, I wish he'd die already.


and Catelyn, the biggest bitch in the world. Even after the red wedding :argh

[Moonshine]

Yeah, i don't like Arya for some reason. I wish i could remember why.

[martryn]

Well, true but he's the only one who might have an idea about it, don't you agree ?

Yeah, someone else had to be in the room, I suppose. Man, I love flashbacks.

[Nakor]

Yeah, that would be awesome. jon riding a dragon to retake the wall would be even more awesome :LOS


That is what I've theorized about :argh and praying D: Imagine blind Arya though :LOS
haha. i love arya so i hope she isn't blind, she has alot more to play in the story too. i hope her and jon meet up after she finishes her training.


Not to mention he's the best candidate for the Iron Throne, marriage with Daeny, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand could be the promised prince that has apparently been predicted in more than one religion.
i totally forgot aobut the promised prince part! that would be incredible. it would also allow him to leave as lord commander too.

Don't really know about that, we don't know how great the armies was on Robert's side, not to mention their strategy obviously defeated Rhaegars.
but wasn't robert the one that was holding everything together? if he would have died in the battle who knows if any one person would have been able to hold the army together.

At least now when it's been three years... I mean one year, two years, It's ok to take a break once in awhile from one book, but three years, going on four in a few months.. I mean come on.

Patience has it's limits.

a year or two is ok between books. almost 4 years is just bad. the worst part about it is that he kept having release dates and then pushing them back.


Oh, that must be in the first book. Does anyone know the page number?

page 424 of the small paperback book. i think its after ned got attacked by jaime's men.

[Freija]

Yeah, i don't like Arya for some reason. I wish i could remember why.
Because she's a tomboy ? Because she's not dumb like Sansa ? Because she's too awesome to comprehend ? :argh
Yeah, someone else had to be in the room, I suppose. Man, I love flashbacks.
Indeed, especially when they're loosely described and involve major plot plans.

[Nakor]

i think howland reed was in the room and knows all about it. i think howland and jon will meet at some point and thats when he will find out the truth. it will be epic.

im thinking it will happen in the 6th book, maybe towards the end. so as to give ample time for jon to take charge of his new destiny

[Moonshine]

lol no those aren't the reasons. I really wish i could remember why.
Could you help with something? I am trying to remember what happened to everyones wolves. One was killed, but i can't remember what happened to the others.

[Freija]

Yeah, but to be fair after reading the Jon Snow chapter one spoiler of ADWD I believe He will flee the wall. and at that point he might meet Howland.



lol no those aren't the reasons. I really wish i could remember why.
Could you help with something? I am trying to remember what happened to everyones wolves. One was killed, but i can't remember what happened to the others.

Sansa's was killed, Nymeria is still running wild in the forest, sometimes Arya gets in it's skin at nights without knowing it.

[Nakor]

Yeah, but to be fair after reading the Jon Snow chapter one spoiler of ADWD I believe He will flee the wall. and at that point he might meet Howland.


hey, better for all of us then if we find out sooner :amuse

[Moonshine]

Sansa's was killed, Nymeria is still running wild in the forest, sometimes Arya gets in it's skin at nights without knowing it.

Thanks:)
Is this Reed guy introduced in the fourth book? because i can't remember reading about him.

[Freija]

I hope it gets more hinted, or even revealed in ADWDThanks
Is this Reed guy introduced in the fourth book? because i can't remember reading about him.First book fourth chapter (the first eddard chapter.)

[martryn]

Is this Reed guy introduced in the fourth book? because i can't remember reading about him.

I don't think (halfway through the third book) that we've actually met him yet, but he is referenced occasionally, and then his two kids pop up and talk about him occasionally as well.

[Freija]

Well, he's not been introduced as in the main story yet, only in flashbacks and talk about him as martryn said. He's not in book four either as that doesn't center around the north that much, might be in book five.

[Moonshine]

Hmm, I really am going to have to reread those books. And buy the fourth book.

[Freija]

The fourth book is good, but it takes longer to read because at first you don't get the familiar feeling you get from your favourite characters, imagine re-reading book one again where you barely know a character.

[Nakor]

I don't think (halfway through the third book) that we've actually met him yet, but he is referenced occasionally, and then his two kids pop up and talk about him occasionally as well.

yup. he appeared in the story yet, except when other people are talking about him. i don't think any of his men have even fought in any battles yet.

i like his kids. they seem very willing to help bran and don't want anything in return.

[Freija]

The crannogmen are supposedly very loyal, and their father must've had some kind of close relationship with Eddard going through all that. The crannogmen doesn't strike me as betrayers like the Freys, I believe they're true to the lords of Winterfell until the end.

[martryn]

imagine re-reading book one again where you barely know a character.

I breezed through book 1. I could hardly put it down. I'll probably do the same with book 4. When you don't know much about a character, you're that much more eager to get to know them.

i like his kids. they seem very willing to help bran and don't want anything in return.

The crannogmen are supposedly very loyal, and their father must've had some kind of close relationship with Eddard going through all that. The crannogmen doesn't strike me as betrayers like the Freys, I believe they're true to the lords of Winterfell until the end.

Really liking them as well. I think the Reeds are one of the few families I'm not afraid will betray the Starks, as has just been said.

[Moonshine]

The fourth book is good, but it takes longer to read because at first you don't get the familiar feeling you get from your favourite characters, imagine re-reading book one again where you barely know a character.

That sounds bad. I don't like not being familiar with the character. But i guess it might be easier if i read one back after another so i know whats going on.

[Freija]

I breezed through book 1. I could hardly put it down. I'll probably do the same with book 4. When you don't know much about a character, you're that much more eager to get to know them.




The tale is told through the point of view of 12 POV characters and, as with previous volumes, a one-off prologue POV.

* Prologue: Pate, a novice of the maesters in Oldtown.
* The Prophet, The Drowned Man: Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy
* The Captain of the Guards: Areo Hotah, Captain of Guards to Prince Doran Martell of Dorne
* The Queen Regent Cersei Lannister
* Lady Brienne, the Maid of Tarth
* Samwell Tarly, a sworn brother of the Night's Watch
* Arya Stark, later referred to as <slight spoiler>
* Ser Jaime Lannister, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard
* Sansa Stark, <slight spoiler> (by which name some of her chapters are known)
* The Kraken's Daughter: Asha Greyjoy, King Balon's daughter
* The Soiled Knight: Ser Arys Oakheart of the Kingsguard
* The Iron Captain, The Reaver: Victarion Greyjoy, King Balon's brother
* The Queenmaker, The Princess in the Tower: Arianne Martell, a Dornish princess


As you see there are many characters you recognize but the story mostly follows Sansa, Jaime, Brainne and Cersei... Which I doubt you'll feel "OMG I HAVE TO READ THIS" for at first :sag

[martryn]

The book actually looks freakin' sweet. I'm loving Jaime's point of view, and Brienne's as well. And Samwell isn't bad. Arya is always good. Some of the other characters, especially the knights, don't seem half bad either. The only POV's that I'd be meh over are the Greyjoy's and Sansa, really. The lack of Tyrion scares me, as he's one of my favorite characters. Now I really have to read the rest of this book. If he dies...

[Freija]

To be honest, The priest Greyjoy is very meh, Victarion and Asha are very awesome.

[martryn]

Asha did seem interesting from the one time I've really seen her. I might enjoy her indeed.

[Freija]

You will, but I believe you'll enjoy Victarion much much more =)

[Nakor]

Really liking them as well. I think the Reeds are one of the few families I'm not afraid will betray the Starks, as has just been said.
i agree. they will not betray the starks. its just weird that they haven't really been in any of the battles yet(unless im mistaken). maybe they wanted to get a grip on the whole scene first before sending soldiers off. i guess they are also a good defense for winterfell.

As you see there are many characters you recognize but the story mostly follows Sansa, Jaime, Brainne and Cersei... Which I doubt you'll feel "OMG I HAVE TO READ THIS" for at first :sag

jaime is slowly becoming one of my favorite characters.

[Freija]

i agree. they will not betray the starks. its just weird that they haven't really been in any of the battles yet(unless im mistaken). maybe they wanted to get a grip on the whole scene first before sending soldiers off. i guess they are also a good defense for winterfell.

Robb didn't even send a messenger to them, he probably thought them useless =/

jaime is slowly becoming one of my favorite characters.

Agreed, but that came in book 4, not before it... at least for me.

[Nakor]

Robb didn't even send a messenger to them, he probably thought them useless =/
i thought he did. why else would his two kids be there?

Agreed, but that came in book 4, not before it... at least for me.
same here. my feelings about him started changing in book 3, but i didn't start fully liking him til book 4

[Moonshine]

I used to not like Jamie, but then with his interaction with Brienne i kinda started to like him more.

[Dionysus]

I love the Tower of Joy memory. Haha. It it weren't for the net, I bet the Northmen would have lost. :awesome


Man, how is a guy expected to remember three sentences from the fourth chapter of the first book? And it makes it seem as if Reed wasn't present in the room at the time, but maybe I'm misreading it.
The whole point is Howland saw Lyanna and her baby. It doesn't take much to put the two facts together, who "kidnapped" her. Reed would know, if this is true, that Jon is this baby and the implications.

Also, Ned recalls this while in prison too. I think that's where, anyways.

Martin said he would definitely write part of the first book differently, and I think he means this. Not to give it away like he did. But... we may never know at this pace.


As to why the Reed's haven't been active, apart from pissing off the Iron Islanders and Freys, I would say a green dream. Jojen might have counseled his father to hold back for some event.

[Freija]

i thought he did. why else would his two kids be there?
His child had a dream about Winterfell getting swallowed up by waves, so he sent them there to protect Bran and Rickon. (The waves being the Greyjoys)

same here. my feelings about him started changing in book 3, but i didn't start fully liking him til book 4
Exactly :LOS
I used to not like Jamie, but then with his interaction with Brienne i kinda started to like him more.

I started liking him when I found out more about him, for example that he really only broke his vows to protect many innocent lives in Kings landing.

[Nakor]

I love the Tower of Joy memory. Haha. It it weren't for the net, I bet the Northmen would have lost. :awesome
:laugh it had to have helped.


The whole point is Howland saw Lyanna and her baby. It doesn't take much to put the two facts together, who "kidnapped" her. Reed would know, if this is true, that Jon is this baby and the implications.

Also, Ned recalls this while in prison too. I think that's where, anyways.

Martin said he would definitely write part of the first book differently, and I think he means this. Not to give it away like he did. But... we may never know at this pace.
true, he could have figured it out that rhaegar was the father but i think ned probably told him or lyanna told ned while howland was in the room. it would make a much more interesting story to tell jon.

edit:@amamiya

gosh i keep forgetting these things. i reread the first book recently, maybe its time for me to reread the others.

[Dionysus]

I liked AFFC. Some people thought it was too political, but I liked that part. The rot and stupidity emanating out of King's Landing was great. Seeing Oldtown was neat too. It's a side that I had always wondered about.

I worried about liking Cersei like what happened with Jaime. Things certainly changed though.

[Nakor]

I worried about liking Cersei like what happened with Jaime. Things certainly changed though.

i hope cersei dies. i also hope sansa dies.

[Moonshine]

His child had a dream about Winterfell getting swallowed up by waves, so he sent them there to protect Bran and Rickon. (The waves being the Greyjoys)
Exactly :LOS


I started liking him when I found out more about him, for example that he really only broke his vows to protect many innocent lives in Kings landing.

If i i found out something like that about him if he hadn't met brienne, i'd be surprise but now it really doesn't seem surprising.

edit: I hope cersei dies as well. i hate her