Germany moves to ban Scientology

[chaosakita]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/12/07/germany.scientology.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of the Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization.
art.scientology.gi.jpg

The German government considers Scientology a commercial enterprise.

The interior ministers of the nation's 16 states plan to give the nation's domestic intelligence agency the task of preparing the necessary information to ban the organization, which has been under observation for a decade on allegations that it "threatens the peaceful democratic order" of the country.

The Church of Scientology, in a response sent to CNN, denounced the German proposal, calling it out of step with various international court rulings. Read the Church of Scientology response

The ministers, as well as federal Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, "consider Scientology to be an organization that is not compatible with the constitution," said Berlin Interior Minister Ehrhart Koerting, who presided over the officials' two-day conference.

Sabine Weber, president of the Church of Scientology in Berlin, said she views the renewed attempt to ban the organization as a reaction to increasing acceptance of Scientologists in several European countries.

"It is very, very clear that the true picture of what Scientology is about is pushing its way through," Weber said. "The interior ministers are clearly reacting to that."

The Scientologists have long battled to end the surveillance, saying it is an abuse of their right to freedom of religion. They point to several lower court rulings in favor of their right to practice in Germany as a religious organization.

The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice.

The interior ministers gave no specific examples for their decision, but the most recent annual report on extremism compiled by their agencies criticized the organization for disregarding human rights.

"From a number of sources, some of them not available to the public, it has been determined that (the organization) seeks to limit or rescind basic and human rights, such as the right to develop one's personality and the right to be treated equally," the report said.

Earlier this year, the German government initially refused to allow the producers of a movie starring Scientology member Tom Cruise as the most famous anti-Hitler plotter to film at the site where the hero was executed, although it did not expressly state Scientology as its reason. It later allowed the production to go ahead.

The Los Angeles-based Church of Scientology was founded in 1954 by the late science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. It first set up in Germany in 1970 and officials estimate it counts some 6,000 members in the country.

What do you guys thing? Since Germany considers Scientology to be a business (and I do too), this really isn't a human rights violation over there.

[Pilaf]

Scientology itself is a human rights violation. Any move to ban it and have its position as a religion removed is okay in my book.

[Purgatory]

If only America had thought of this first.

[BandGeekNinja]

another plus for the German people/government smile-big

in all seriousness I dont really know enough about scientology (save for the fact that Tom Cruise is a member) to really have an opinion

[Pilaf]

another plus for the German people/government smile-big

in all seriousness I dont really know enough about scientology (save for the fact that Tom Cruise is a member) to really have an opinion

It takes people's money and kills people. In that regard, it's much like any other organized religion. It was founded by a known science fiction writer, however, and its proponents have some truly frightening and silly views.

[Sasuke]

Noooo, my precious scientology!

Oh, germany.

[BandGeekNinja]

It takes people's money and kills people. In that regard, it's much like any other organized religion. It was founded by a known science fiction writer, however, and its proponents have some truly frightening and silly views.

really? I guess I'm gonna have to go to wikipedi to find out more, cause we all know, what's on Wiki is the absolute truth!

[Raiden]

Good, Germany is taking the steps to become a better nation. It's great to see establishments like these fade away.

[Fable (Zaru dupe)]

Frightening and silly is an understatement.

Their recruitment process is horrible too. They basically cause an emotional breakdown in a person to make her vulnerable and susceptible to their organisation.

And they mostly take in people with money and/or power, anyway. To gain control in companies, media and governments.

[Pilaf]

It's like the idea of spiritual awakening and studies related to religions is taking it's fall on a global basis. I wonder if any good will come of this, a world without these types of things will only be colder...

I'm not exactly sure if you understand what Scientology is...the fact that it's being persecuted is a very good thing to free thinkers because it's a bullshit fake religion which was designed so that its leaders could achieve tax exempt status while milking celebrities and other gullible rich people for millions of dollars.

[The Cheat]

about time.

[The_Unforgiven]

germany ftw

[The Cheat]

germany ftw

quote for truth.

[Shiron]

Good; glad to see that someone is finally banning it. Definitely past due.

[Coteaz]

LORD XENU SHALL CRUSH THE GERMAN INFIDELS!

...wait, Xenu is the bad guy. Whoops. :lmao

[Raiden]

I'm not exactly sure if you understand what Scientology is...the fact that it's being persecuted is a very good thing to free thinkers because it's a bullshit fake religion which was designed so that its leaders could achieve tax exempt status while milking celebrities and other gullible rich people for millions of dollars.

That wasn't stated here (http://www.scientology.org/[url)

I didn't know it worked that way, thanks for the enligthenment.

[Yamato]

No religion makes sense. Ban all.

[Verdius]

That wasn't stated here (http://www.scientology.org/[url)

I didn't know it worked that way, thanks for the enligthenment.

Either you're very ill informed or you're one yourself. :pek

[The Cheat]

No religion makes sense. Ban all.

This post is failure.

[Saufsoldat]

Oh yeah, ban the shit out of scientology :shakefist

At least something the politicians here can do right :pek

What do you guys thing? Since Germany considers Scientology to be a business (and I do too), this really isn't a human rights violation over there.

It's not because of the human rights violation. After some research, scientology was considered "not compatible with the German constitution" by most politicians.

Also Wolfang Schäuble, our Minister of the Interior, suspects scientology to want to get involved in German politics.

If only America had thought of this first.

Actually Belgium was the first country to think of that (if I remember correctly).

[Kyasurin Yakuto]

I heard about this. Although I don't know much about Scientology so it's a bit hard for me to have an opinion on it.

If Scientology really is something that is against some human rights though and other things, then it probably is good that they're banning it. I just can't fully comment when I don't know much at all about that religion.

[Sky is Over]

@speaking of scientology, what human rights violations has it committed?

[Toby]

Germany has some very cute installations in its government. This is one of them.

But seriously, way to attack Scientology. It is quite a crushing argument for the poor idiots to counter that they are essentially commercialising faith. I think all countries either ought to ban this crap then or allow people to sue scientologists on the basis of misleading the public.

The lawyers of Germany probably cried bitter tears over the loss of this potential customer.

[BrianTheGoldfish]

The only problem with this one is that there are people who genuinely believe the facets of Scientology. Is Scientology as an establishment being banned (what with effectively stealing money from people and all) or are people going to be banned from, like, practicing Scientology? 'Cause I think the crimethink approach is a step too far. One of the core ideals of a free society is the right to have whatever stupid beliefs you want.

If they're just banning the establishment but letting people believe Scientology in the absence of their money-grabbing church of fairly obvious scamitude, I'm cool with this one.

[Saufsoldat]

The only problem with this one is that there are people who genuinely believe the facets of Scientology. Is Scientology as an establishment being banned (what with effectively stealing money from people and all) or are people going to be banned from, like, practicing Scientology? 'Cause I think the crimethink approach is a step too far. One of the core ideals of a free society is the right to have whatever stupid beliefs you want.

If they're just banning the establishment but letting people believe Scientology in the absence of their money-grabbing church of fairly obvious scamitude, I'm cool with this one.

They ban it like they would ban Nazi Parties or other organizations that are anit-constitutional. It was never given the status of a religion, therefore the "practicing" of it is an irrelevant question.

[Kubisa]

Good I guess; I just hope they don't start banning some of the religions that actually work.

[Tokoyami]

They don't want sceintology taking over the Neo nazi movements.

The third reich shall rise again after all.

[ryne11]

If only America could follow suit

[Denji]

Scientolology

[Masaki]

They had it coming for far too long.

[Red]

I heard some creepy stuff about them.

[Believe It!]

Good for Germany. Jesus Christ is Lord. No stinking aliens.

[Willaien]

Good for Germany. Jesus Christ is Lord. No stinking aliens.

You started out well, I give you a D- for effort.

[Fable (Zaru dupe)]

I heard some creepy stuff about them.

Who didn't? The overall public doesn't associate many good things with scientology.

And most have Tom Cruise's annoying grin face in mind anyway.

[Brokensharingan]

About time, no doubt Mr. Cruise will have a thing to say but no one cares because he's an actor. A bad one at that

[dreams lie]

Wait, I always thought it was just a harmless cult. What wrongdoings have they actually done?

[Willaien]

Wait, I always thought it was just a harmless cult. What wrongdoings have they actually done?

Emotional breakdowns to get people to join, brainwashing techniques and a money drain, for starters.

[dreams lie]

Emotional breakdowns to get people to join, brainwashing techniques and a money drain, for starters.

Any sources? I heard criticism of it for a while, but I never actually got any experience or heard any direct source against the organization.

[Willaien]

Any sources? I heard criticism of it for a while, but I never actually got any experience or heard any direct source against the organization.

Just second and third-hand information.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=112545

Their recruiting methods are well-known, the rest is a bit sketchy.

[Suzumebachi]

I'm canceling my trip to Germany.

[Gamma Akutabi]

The less I see of it, the better.

[Cell]

Good. Scientology is stupid and was created by a Schizophrenic novelist.

[Coteaz]

Good for Germany. Jesus Christ is Lord. No stinking aliens.
My alien friend "Pedro" might have something to say about that. :pek

Their recruiting methods are well-known, the rest is a bit sketchy.
Most people can't afford to fork over hundreds of thousands of dollars simply to get info on the upper OT levels.

[Suzumebachi]

Good. Scientology is stupid and was created by a Schizophrenic novelist.

And Naruto was created by an unattractive plagiarist.

[Cell]

Scientology is just lies upon lies. It was originally a science fiction story!

[Lawliet]

Good for Germany, not that it matters, scientology will just go underground...

Still, the fact that they actually have the stones to do it gives me hope for the world.

[Brokensharingan]

And Naruto was created by an unattractive plagiarist.

But there isn't a naruto religion is there

[Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki]

I'm canceling my trip to Germany.

Why? Do you like scientology?

[colours]

Good, the less of it the better. :pek

[chaosakita]

Any sources? I heard criticism of it for a while, but I never actually got any experience or heard any direct source against the organization.

Look at xenu.net

[mystictrunks]

Don't know how I feel about this. Scientology is lame and all but it's just as valid a religion as any other in some peoples minds.

[guro]

They need to do this in america too.

[Cirus]

Well that is the first step in a long journey in finnally getting rid of that damb belief.

[scottlw]

i dont think they would do this in america.... If they want to believe some thing thats up to them not the nations leaders..

[Saufsoldat]

Don't know how I feel about this. Scientology is lame and all but it's just as valid a religion as any other in some peoples minds.

Firstly, scientology was neither considered a religion nor an ideology in Germany.

Secondly, any organization that opposes our constitution and threatens democracy is to be banned. I don't see why some people have a problem with that. I like democracy. I want to keep it.

[Aldrick]

Clambake.

And remember, L. Ron Hubbard says that all science fiction is happening, has happened or will happen.

That's right, Jar Jar Binks existed, is existing or will exist in reality.

And any religion that supports that is evil.

[TWF]

The sheer following Scientology has in America alone is frightening. Good job Germany, hats off to you for your boldness.

[~ Son of SPARDA ~]

I'm happy to hear Germany is doing so (it should have done so sooner, IMO); Scientology is a pile of made-up, sci-fi filth that has no place in the world, and especially not alongside the existential purity that is Christianity. As far as I'm concerned, it needs to be banned in America as well.

[tri-sapphire]

@speaking of scientology, what human rights violations has it committed?

Just google: The unfunny truth


And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Grrblt]

Firstly, scientology was neither considered a religion nor an ideology in Germany.

Secondly, any organization that opposes our constitution and threatens democracy is to be banned. I don't see why some people have a problem with that. I like democracy. I want to keep it.

Wouldn't the democratic thing be to fight threats to democracy, using democracy? Not all people like democracy and they should be allowed to vote to abolish it.

[Jin-E]

Sabine Weber, president of the Church of Scientology in Berlin, said she views the renewed attempt to ban the organization as a reaction to increasing acceptance of Scientologists in several European countries.

"It is very, very clear that the true picture of what Scientology is about is pushing its way through," Weber said. "The interior ministers are clearly reacting to that."

Wonder what would happen if the Church takes this case to Strasbourgh? Some European nations grants the Scientology Church the title of an officially
recognized religious organization after all.

If it gets banned in Germany then get ready for a legal brawl.

[Simulacrum]

I don't know if I'd make the same argument that Germany is making. I'd rather focus on the fact that one of the basic tenants of Scientology is to deny conventional medication for mental illnesses, which can be/is a direct cause of some serious problems including homicide and suicide.

Any other organization that would use the exact same methods as Scientology, except without claiming to be a religion, would have been banned decades ago.

[tinhamodic]

Any kind of 'cult' you got to watch out for. But Germany is taking the 1st step. Next move is Scientology and see what they do.

[Pilaf]

That wasn't stated here (http://www.scientology.org/[url)

I didn't know it worked that way, thanks for the enligthenment.

It doesn't say on the University of Phoenix's website that "we'll take your money and give you a fake degree!" either. Con artists don't tend to advertise their deception...

[Saufsoldat]

Wouldn't the democratic thing be to fight threats to democracy, using democracy? Not all people like democracy and they should be allowed to vote to abolish it.

Well, that's impossible in Germany. The constitution says that Germany is a democracy and that that part (among some others) can not be changed - not even with the absolute majority of the people or the parliament.

Unless violantly overthrown, there is no way to change the German constitution by any official means.

[Banhammer]

There's a reason why germany can tank the rest of the world..

[scottlw]

what do you mean by tank >?<

[TorQz]

It takes people's money and kills people. In that regard, it's much like any other organized religion. It was founded by a known science fiction writer, however, and its proponents have some truly frightening and silly views.

I am not a believer of scientology and never will be......but how does it take money from people and kill people.......?.....if it did that, then it would have been banned ages ago.

scientology is supposedly about finding the truth in anything and everything.

I don't believe in it but I don't feel that i have a right to condemn other people's believes.

[Saufsoldat]

I am not a believer of scientology and never will be......but how does it take money from people and kill people.......?.....if it did that, then it would have been banned ages ago.

scientology is supposedly about finding the truth in anything and everything.

I don't believe in it but I don't feel that i have a right to condemn other people's believes.

rCGP-0545EU

[Suzumebachi]

Why? Do you like scientology?


What? No, something came up. o__O

[Suigetsu]

I think that hollywood stars made scientology cause their common lives wherent exciting enuff so they created that s**t to feel like theyn where living in one of their movies.

[Banhammer]

Aperently they are keeping hubard's teachings are locked in titanium vault where will last thousands of yearsa
:facepalm

People of the future will think that was our religion

[Lawliet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCGP-0545EU

In light of this I'd have to say we should do more than ban it. Actively pursue and ivestigate anyone involved with it. That'd cost too much though....

[Pringer Lagann]

They had it coming for far too long.

It is all too true

[Écureuil fou]

:naru2 WAY TO GO!!! GERMANY FTW!!! They have totally redeemed themselves for that whole Nazi incident. :Hinata

[Banhammer]

they so totally would if they got rid of scientology world wide

[chaosakita]

I am not a believer of scientology and never will be......but how does it take money from people and kill people.......?.....if it did that, then it would have been banned ages ago.

scientology is supposedly about finding the truth in anything and everything.

I don't believe in it but I don't feel that i have a right to condemn other people's believes.

It wouldn't be ok if it was just stupid and harmless, but it isn't. Go look over at xenu.net.

[Banhammer]

I just won't see another Tom Cruise movie ever again
Too bad, that boy was cute :(

[mister_manji]

Any sources? I heard criticism of it for a while, but I never actually got any experience or heard any direct source against the organization.

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/Web/People/dst/Fishman/time-behar.html
http://cgi.amazing.com/scientology/This one is really old, but its still a good source

[maximilyan]

Everyone has the right to their own religion :LOS

[chaosakita]

Everyone has the right to their own religion :LOS

Even if it's a cult?

[Kamen Rider Ryoma]

Wait, I always thought it was just a harmless cult. What wrongdoings have they actually done?

1.Planned to frame a city Mayor of a hit and run accident
2.Planned to frame an Author critical of them of terrorism
3.Wiretapped, burgalized over a hundred government agencies, consulates, and foreign embassies, in an operation that involved thousands of the churchs agents.<-uncovered by the FBI

[Grrblt]

Even if it's a cult?

All religions are or started out as cults.

[mister_manji]

in b4 efrainman

[Tsukiyomi]

Good, now if only the other countries of the world would follow suit.