Sandaime and Yondaime vs. Madara and Pein

[Mider T]

The Professor, Konoha's Yellow Flash, the oldest Uchiha, the Akatsuki leader. Arguably the greatest ninja who've ever lived locked in intense combat of awesome power. Who will win this bout?

[EaZy_Uchiha]

hmm, it´s actually not possible to say since we dont know madara´s power and how strong pein allout is...
do you mean prime third or at old age?

[Mider T]

Oh sorry I forgot, everyone is in their prime. This means Sandaime when he taught the Sannin, Yondaime (before the sealing method he develops), and Madara with both eyes.

[Sasuke]

Pein+Madara, the Rinnegan + probably the greatest Sharingan eyes in existence, this would be my ideal fight to see.

Can't see the outcome myself hard to say but I think if Minato was smart he would use his legendary suicide jutsu :pek.

[Mider T]

That's off limits. The true question is, could a master Sharingan keep up with Hiraishin?

[niyesuH]

team Akatsuki ftw

[Empirejoao]

Team Akatsuki wins, they seem to be stronger.

[Mider T]

How so? What's so inferior about team Hokage's strength?

[Vance]

Lol, Shodaime defeated Madara. Sandaime surpassed Nidaime AND Shodaime when he was 16.

Sandaime >>> Madara.

Yondaime's Hirashin would take a dump on those Sharingan eyes. If he summons Kyuubi, Shiki Fuujin is one attack away.

Then. Sandaime can come and wipe the crap off Madara.

Pain isn't that strong compared to the Hokages, his summons would be null to Gamabunta and Enma.

Sandaime >>> Pain.

Yondaime >>> Pain.

[Athena Citra]

If we're talking about Akatsuki Madara, then I say this fight would go to the Hokage. I don't have a lot of confidence in him without two Sharingan and the Nine-Tailed Fox. There would be no KWGoD hax to stop him. I think Nagato and Minato would draw and Sarutobi would defeat Madara.

[Mider T]

Lol, Shodaime defeated Madara. Sandaime surpassed Nidaime AND Shodaime when he was 16.

Sandaime >>> Madara.

Yondaime's Hirashin would take a dump on those Sharingan eyes. If he summons Kyuubi, Shiki Fuujin is one attack away.

Then. Sandaime can come and wipe the crap off Madara.

Pain isn't that strong compared to the Hokages, his summons would be null to Gamabunta and Enma.

Sandaime >>> Pain.

Yondaime >>> Pain.

We're not exactly sure how Shodai defeated Madara; maybe it's because he can't copy Shodai's ability, or maybe it's because so many plants can't be dodged. But where the hell do you get off thinking that Sandaime was 16 years old when he became Hokage? And how do you know he surpassed them both? It was a time of war, they could've both died on the battlefield. Also, for the 3rd time, Shiki Fuujin cannot be used.

By the by his name is Pein, or Nagato if you prefer.

[Kira]

Seems that Team Hokage would win only because Madara was defeated by Shodaime. But, I really don't believe that Shodaime could beat Madara as we still need to see how that fight actually went. Unless, Shodaime is that strong.

[Vance]

We're not exactly sure how Shodai defeated Madara; maybe it's because he can't copy Shodai's ability, or maybe it's because so many plants can't be dodged.

Both of those explanations still don't change the fact that Madara lost.

But where the hell do you get off thinking that Sandaime was 16 years old when he became Hokage?

I believe it was stated somewhere he SURPASSED THEM BOTH when he was 16.

It was a time of war, they could've both died on the battlefield. Also, for the 3rd time, Shiki Fuujin cannot be used.

Horrible explanation, Sandaime was still holding off two Edo Tensei bodies.

Also, Shiki Fuujin isn't needed, Yondaime > Pain, Sandaime >> Madara.

By the by his name is Pein, or Nagato if you prefer.

It's Pain.

[Mider T]

Both of those explanations still don't change the fact that Madara lost.



I believe it was stated somewhere he SURPASSED THEM BOTH when he was 16.


Horrible explanation, Sandaime was still holding off two Edo Tensei bodies.

Also, Shiki Fuujin isn't needed, Yondaime > Pain, Sandaime >> Madara.



It's Pain.

Where did it state that at? I want Volume, Chapter, Page(s).

What the hell did Edo Tensei have to do with anything? He was old at that time.

I beg to differ, you haven't proven that.

It's Pein:pek

[Vance]

Where did it state that at? I want Volume, Chapter, Page(s).

I don't have them, it's pretty much flawed I guess.

BUT, Sandaime WAS stronger than Shodaime; he was the Shonobi no Kami.

What the hell did Edo Tensei have to do with anything? He was old at that time.

It showed he could keep up with both of them nicely even while old.

[Mider T]

I don't have them, it's pretty much flawed I guess.

BUT, Sandaime WAS stronger than Shodaime; he was the Shonobi no Kami.



It showed he could keep up with both of them nicely even while old.

Yeah, how many people were old enough to compare Shodai and Sandaime in their prime? He was called God of Shinobi because of his experience and arsenal or jutsu.

I'm sorry but that was just asinine. Just saying he could plain keep up is a stretch but nicely? Just no. Maybe you should rewatch the episodes or reread the chapters.

[Sub-Zero]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb32/vixdest/warrantiesvoided.jpg

This thread is void, because there are too many questions that need to be answered before we can give any sort of plausible response.

[Mider T]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb32/vixdest/warrantiesvoided.jpg

This thread is void, because there are too many questions that need to be answered before we can give any sort of plausible response.

Like what? And who died and made you mod? We know almost everything about Sandaime and Yondaime's techniques. We can safely assume that Madara has the Mangekyo and Pein's techniques will be revealed in more detail soon enough.

[Sub-Zero]

Like what? And who died and made you mod? We know almost everything about Sandaime and Yondaime's techniques. We can safely assume that Madara has the Mangekyo and Pein's techniques will be revealed in more detail soon enough.
Since when?

[Vance]

Mider T, wat? We know nothing of anyone in this thread. F@ Mike has won, end thread now.

[Violent By Design]

Based on reputation Madara is the weak link here. Just because hes an Uchia doesn't mean he has the same MS as Itachi (everyones MS is most likely different or else Kakashi could do the same thing Itachi could do).


We have Yondaime and Sarutobi who are stated to be the strongest. Pein via feats is prob in the same tier as them. Madara is prob in a tier below them based on what we've heard.

[Violent By Design]

Like what? And who died and made you mod? We know almost everything about Sandaime and Yondaime's techniques. We can safely assume that Madara has the Mangekyo and Pein's techniques will be revealed in more detail soon enough.


lol that tells us a lot. Could you remind me of what his Mengekyo's ability is?

[Mider T]

At the beginning of this thread I said Master Sharingan, it's safe to assume that he has Itachi's, Kakashi's, and probably some other new ability.

and -snip- Mike and Vance: If this thread is won, then why are the votes so close?

[Sub-Zero]

At the beginning of this thread I said Master Sharingan, it's safe to assume that he has Itachi's, Kakashi's, and probably some other new ability.

and F@g Mike and Vance: If this thread is won, then why are the votes so close?
Lol B&. it's over, Neji won

[Violent By Design]

At the beginning of this thread I said Master Sharingan, it's safe to assume that he has Itachi's, Kakashi's, and probably some other new ability.

and F@g Mike and Vance: If this thread is won, then why are the votes so close?

Theres nothing that implies that. Kakashi and Itachis abilities are unique as far as the storys concerned.

Honestly, people just forgot how the MS even came into play. Everyone assumed that Madara would have the same kick ass power as Itachi. Which isn't true because nothing even implies that he has.

Its implied that Madara has the MS, its not implied what power his MS gives him. So intill then Madara isn't impressing me much. The fact that he was defeated by Shodai at one point says hes not in the same tier, granted he has prob got stronger but we do no tknow how much stronger.

[Mider T]

@ -snip- Mike: Banned how?

Theres nothing that implies that. Kakashi and Itachis abilities are unique as far as the storys concerned.

Honestly, people just forgot how the MS even came into play. Everyone assumed that Madara would have the same kick ass power as Itachi. Which isn't true because nothing even implies that he has.

Its implied that Madara has the MS, its not implied what power his MS gives him. So intill then Madara isn't impressing me much. The fact that he was defeated by Shodai at one point says hes not in the same tier, granted he has prob got stronger but we do no tknow how much stronger.

It's not implied that Madara is strong huh? That's why Pein takes orders from him I suppose.

[Mat®icha]

i'll go with akatsuki.

[Mider T]

Then vote.

[Violent By Design]

@ F@g Mike: Banned how?



It's not implied that Madara is strong huh? That's why Pein takes orders from him I suppose.

Because money, wisdom and respect could have absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Mider T]

Because money, wisdom and respect could have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Then what does exactly?:huh

[yyasir8]

this is a tough one to decide, it could actually go either way depending on the circumstances, and since we dont know what each individual is fully capable of, its hard to say, but since madara and pain have doujutsu with sharigan and rinnegan, the edge would have to go to them because of their eyes

Victor: team akatsuki, barely though

[Che Guevara]

Team Akatsuki Rape

[Gaara_Maniac]

zzzz....madara is able to handle all by himself. if he summons 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 tails they will die lol.

[Mider T]

He doesn't have the 9 tails...and for the last time NO SUMMONS

[Sagara]

I'm going with the Hokage's.

[Shodai]

Sorry but God of Shinobi and The Shinobi who "When compared too, makes everyone full short" cannot be beat. By anyone.

[NarutoWinsByDefault]

Well it would be a good fight, I see team Hokage win, Madaara already lost to an opponent who is weaker then Sandaime...And Yondaime could probably fight Pein for a while..but Im not sure peins ability id imagine prime Sandaime and Yondaime would beat him..

[Shoddragon]

madara and pein easily. he lost to shodaime. big whoop. kakuzu fought shodaime as well and he was still alive. kakuzu is certainly in the same tier as sarutobi and yondaime when you compared his doton armor and s rank jutsus. both are high kages ( sarutobi would be about mid kage but prime MIGHT be high kage).

Madara lost but also summoned the kyuubi. does this mean he created kyuubi? no, I believe he merely lured kyuubi possibly with his dark powers. but his powers must have been extremely powerful and dark and developed lots over 4 years ( about time frame from shodaime vs madara fight to when kyuubi attacked konoha). Pein also has the most powerful eyes ever. b4 anyone shouts MS>> rin-negan, jiraiya stated that pein developed many powerful jutsu when he was still under like 12 ( rough estimate?).

based on what might happen, team akatski wins with little effort. hiraishin won't do anything to either.

[Hazuki]

of course pein and madara , don't forget that they are supposed to be the last vilain

and we know nothing about yondaime , i think jiraiya is stronger than him

[vagnard]

[I][COLOR="Green"]Lol, Shodaime defeated Madara. Sandaime surpassed Nidaime AND Shodaime when he was 16.

Lol. You think Madara is exactly the same he was when he was defeated by Shodai more than 60 YEARS AGO? Look how much improved the sannin in much less time after they were pwned together as a group by Hanzou. The fact Madara is still alive and possess sharingan's true power is an indication he will be strong as hell.

Sandaime >>> Madara.

I doubt it considering Sandaime stated he couldn't stop Orochimaru and Oro was defeated easily by Itachi...someone who is more than probably weaker than Madara. Even Yondaime probably thought nobody could stop Madara...so that's why he left the Kyuubi to Naruto...even Jiraiya implied this.


Yondaime's Hirashin would take a dump on those Sharingan eyes. If he summons Kyuubi, Shiki Fuujin is one attack away.

You don't know how sharingan eyes master would deal with Hirashin. Yondaime thought Madara's was enough menace to seal Kyuubi inside his son.

If Yondaime use Shiki Fuujin he dies. Did you forget that?.

Then. Sandaime can come and wipe the crap off Madara.

Alone?. With Pein as Madara's backup?. No.

Pain isn't that strong compared to the Hokages, his summons would be null to Gamabunta and Enma.

Just one body of Pein is fighting on equal terms with Jiraiya and he doesn't look even worried while Jiraiya had to pull his best card. Shounen convention makes pretty clear that this isn't the strongest body. Either will be the first body introduced or a new different body

Sandaime >>> Pain.

Pein defeated someone who pwned the sannin as a group at the same time. I seriously doubt it.

Yondaime >>> Pain.][/QUOTE]

I believe Yondaime > Pein. But the difference isn't >>>>> that's ridiculous. If anything they are pretty much close.

It's impossible to say the outcome of this battle because we don't know nothing about 2 fighters (Madara and Yondaime) and we have seen just a little of one body Pein. The only one who can measure is Old Sandaime.

Personally I believe the rank goes like this right now:

Yondaime > Pein > Madara > Sandaime.

[Gaara_Maniac]

oh sry...i didnt see clearly...then its still them cuz they seemed very skilled.
First and Second=Sensei of Sarutobi.
First=had a hard time fighting madara?
Yondaime= Seriously.Yondaime is so damn fast yondaime can beat pein unless pein can summon some crap that is faster than yondaime...
anyways,we still dont really know madara and pein's 'true power' XD

[Mider T]

Do you think that Madara's Sharingan could keep up with Yondaime though?

[Teach]

The God of Shinobi and Hiraishin lose to failures? You've gotta be kidding me.

[Mider T]

How exactly are either of them failures?

[Teach]

Madara lost to Shodai, and Pein fails in life.

[Nagato Yuki]

Pein owns the three of them. :pek

[pein_537]

if young saru team hokage wins
if old i dunno mayb theyd still win but saru would have to use shiki fuujin

[Taniko]

The God of Shinobi and Hiraishin lose to failures? You've gotta be kidding me.

I agree 100%


We are talking about the God of Shinobi and the Yellow flash.
I don't see how they would lose.

[Mider T]

I agree 100%


We are talking about the God of Shinobi and the Yellow flash.
I don't see how they would lose.

We're also talking about the world's oldest Uchiha and the leader of Akatsuki with eyes superior to the Sharingan and Byakugan. Remember Hokages can be beaten by scrubs like Kabuto.

[Gaara_Maniac]

yay i agree madaras the founder of uchiha clan.

[TH4N4T0S]

Too hard to decide. We barely know of all of their strengths and weaknesses.

[Mider T]

Too hard to decide. We barely know of all of their strengths and weaknesses.

Do you have ~Thanatos If I can't be yours~ for download?

[ShinigamiUchiha420]

the rinnengan AND Sharingan vs two kages? i think the akatsuki pair would win because thats a 7 on two fight

[Mider T]

the rinnengan AND Sharingan vs two kages? i think the akatsuki pair would win because thats a 7 on two fight

That's not a very detailed explanation of how.

[Detonator_Fan]

This fight would be made of win and god.

[Crimson Scorpio]

If Pein has access to all 6 of his bodies, I can't see Team Will o' Fire getting out of this one alive. Madara has a Mastered Sharingan. big w00p.

[UchihaItachi489]

In this corner:

Madara - The first MS Sharingan user, and the oldest living Uchiha. The power behind the power of the Akatsuki. Faster than Diedara's final blast.

Pein- Has the same eyes as the originator of Ninjitsu. The Leader of Akatsuki. Possesses all 6 elemental chakras. Has multiple powerful summons. And knows all of Jiraiya's moves (save what the 4th taught him).

And in the other corner:

Sandaime - The God of the Shinobi. The one who is said to know all the Jutsus in Konoha. Has the most useful single summon to date with Enma. Was able to fight the Edo Tensei of the 1st and 2nd Hokage at the same time as an OLD man. Was trained by the 1st and 2nd Hokage, and trained the legendary Sannin.

Yondaime - The "greatest" shinobi in history. Possesses the fastest move yet revealed in the Manga, the Hirashin. Created the Rasengan, and sealed the 9 Tails fox. Has Gamabunta summon. Was trained by Jiraiya, and trained Kakashi. Incredibly fast base speed.


This is a battle that would truly be talked about for all times. Mountains would shake and crumble, and deforestation would take effect. But I think when it is all said and done...Saindaime and Yondaime would walk out the victors. I think Yondaime's combination of speed (Hirashin) and punch (rasengan) would end up being the difference in this fight.

[Sliver Fang]

Sandiame and Yondaime will win.

[Mider T]

Yeah, there are so many different factors, I think it will depend on who's the better tactician.

Sandiame and Yondaime will win.

Care to explain how?

[atom]

Pein >>>>> Jiraiya + Orochimaru + Tsunade
Orochimaru = Yondaime
Pein >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yondaime
Jiraiya + Orochimaru >>>> Sandaime
Pein >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jiraiya + Orochimaru >>> Sandaime
Pein >>>>>>>> Yondaime + Sandaime

[whitefang21]

Team Hokage will kill them

[Han Solo]

Team Akatsuki. Pain, Minato and Sarutobi are all gonna be on about the same level, but as I beleive Madara will be the final villain and will only lose in a team battle, I have to say he is stronger than either of these 3, which allows Team Akatsuki to win this.

[Mider T]

Team Akatsuki. Pain, Minato and Sarutobi are all gonna be on about the same level, but as I beleive Madara will be the final villain and will only lose in a team battle, I have to say he is stronger than either of these 3, which allows Team Akatsuki to win this.

What brings you to this conclusion?

[Han Solo]

What brings you to this conclusion?

Your asking why I think Madara is so powerful right? It's really just based on my own personal logic, so I don't really expect anyone to agree with me, but I'll play it out for you.

Yondaime, is quite obviously, Naruto's benchmark. So in turn Naruto's final villain is going to veeery near Yondaime, or even surpassing, him in strength. I think that this person is gonna end up being Pain.

Then you have Itachi. Itachi is, without doubt, Sasuke's own personal final villain. The manga has always throughly made sure to make it look like Sasuke and Naruto are equals, and this is gonna happen until then end. So according to this logic, Itachi is going to naturally be about as strong as Pain, and in turn Yondaime.

However with Itachi, his Sharingan is not at full stength, according to Madara. Madara wants to bring the Sharingan to it's fullest level of power, which will naturally surpass Itachi's and thereofre both Pain's and Yondaime's too. And it's because of that I beleive Madara will simply be too strong to defeat one on one, and it will end up being a teamwork effort. If you don't forget it's teamwork which saves the day in this manga, nothing else, and the final villain aint gonna be any differant.

Really if I had to "rank" people's power it'd go like this:

1. Madara

2. Prime Sandaime
3. Yondaime
4. Pain
5. Itachi
6. Kabuto/Danzou/Hanzou

With no real visable differance in power between 6-2.

Madara's just gonna be on a whole differwant spectrum.

[Shodai]

Draw at least. If Team Hokage didn't kill them, they would use Shiki Fuujin to tie.

But, Sarutobi and Minato have WoF and Sarutobi knows over 9000 jutsus, and Minato had Hiraishin. These are countered by the fact that Madara has ultimate sharigan (god hax eye) and Pain has Rinnegan. However, i believe that Yondaime and Sarutobi's teamwork would save the day and they would find a way to win.

[Han Solo]

Draw at least. If Team Hokage didn't kill them, they would use Shiki Fuujin to tie.

But, Sarutobi and Minato have WoF and Sarutobi knows over 9000 jutsus, and Minato had Hiraishin. These are countered by the fact that Madara has ultimate sharigan (god hax eye) and Pain has Rinnegan. However, i believe that Yondaime and Sarutobi's teamwork would save the day and they would find a way to win.

Your post is really quite valid I suppose, and I guess teamwork would be able to win the fight.

But honestly this fight is entireley too speculative.

[Mider T]

It's Pein:pek and how does Kabuto and Danzo get so high on this list? Above even Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Tsunade.

[subliminal1]

Go Team Hokage!!!
They will win this at least they can both shiki fuujin their akutsuki ass

[Mider T]

Go Team Hokage!!!
They will win this at least they can both shiki fuujin their akutsuki ass

That's a draw, it causes death.

[maximilyan]

shit thatd be a sick match up... im going for team hokage though

[Shodai]

That's a draw, it causes death.

Fucking lol'd :lmao

[Mider T]

Fucking lol'd :lmao

I thought that was common sense?:huh

[Violent By Design]

It's Pein:pek and how does Kabuto and Danzo get so high on this list? Above even Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Tsunade.

Well no offense but I think Danzou and Kabuto are most likely above Kakashi.

His logic behind Kabuto obviously resides because Kabuto is now becoming stronger using bonds with Orochimaru

His logic for Danzou being strong is that Danzou was rival to Prime Sarutobi for Hokage. So this means that Old Danzou (assuming he got weaker with age) is prob as strong as Old Sarutobi.

[Turrin]

I am going to say team Akatsuki because they are suppose to be the final villain which means they have to be stronger then Team hokage to prove naruto is the greatest.

[Mider T]

Well no offense but I think Danzou and Kabuto are most likely above Kakashi.

His logic behind Kabuto obviously resides because Kabuto is now becoming stronger using bonds with Orochimaru

His logic for Danzou being strong is that Danzou was rival to Prime Sarutobi for Hokage. So this means that Old Danzou (assuming he got weaker with age) is prob as strong as Old Sarutobi.

So messed up face and absorbed leftovers=stronger than a guy who was a Jonin at age 13? Remember Sasuke absorbed the good parts of Orochimaru. Just because Danzou was a rival doesn't mean that he was even in Sarutobi's league, Lee was a rival to Neji in the academy but without Gai it was almost laughable.