Rikudou Sennin's Necklace and Yasakani no Magatama [Archive]

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Turrin

10-04-2007, 09:12 PM

I found it intresting that the neckless that Rokudo Sannin is wearing is one the the legendary three items of japan or the Imperial Regalia. Whic consists of the

The Imperial Regalia of Japan (三種の神器, Sanshu no Jingi?), also known as the Three Sacred Treasures, consist of the sword, Kusanagi (草薙劍), the jewel or necklace of jewels, Yasakani no magatama (八尺瓊曲玉), and the mirror Yata no kagami (八咫鏡). Also known as the Three Sacred Treasures of Japan, the regalia represent the three primary virtues: valor (the sword), wisdom (the mirror), and benevolence (the jewel). These may be connected with Buddhist thought.

Due to the legendary status of these items, their locations are not confirmed, but it is commonly thought that the sword is located at Atsuta Shrine in Nagoya, the jewel is located at Kokyo (the Imperial Palace) in Tokyo and the mirror is located in the Grand Shrine of Ise in Mie prefecture [1]. One or more of these may not be the originals.

The neckless in paticular is called Yasakani no Magatama and is

The most important magatama is the Yasakani no Magatama (八尺瓊曲玉, also 八坂瓊曲玉), which is part of the Imperial Regalia of Japan, added some time around the Heian period. The Yasakani no Magatama stands for benevolence, and is one of the three items used in the ceremony of imperial ascension. In Japanese mythology, the jewels, along with the mirror, were hung on the tree outside of Amaterasu's cave (where she had hidden) to lure her out. It is believed to be a necklace composed of jade magatama stones instead of a solitary gem as depicted in popular culture. It is believed to be enshrined in Kokyo, the Japanese Imperial Palace.

I found this all especailly intresting considering that the neckless stands for benevolence, which is kinda of the what pain wants to bring to the naruto world. Also its possible that the sword that Rokudo Sannin has at his back could be the orginall Ksunagi sword meaning that etheir Orochimaru recovered it or both Sasuke/Oro's are fakes. I think its kinda of cool that kishi gave Rokudo the three acient treasures of japan and they may even play a role in his power/ninjutsu/ninjutsu creation but even if they don't i just found it intresting so i decieded to post it.

Yasha

10-04-2007, 09:12 PM

Yasakani no magatama(a jewel or necklace of jewels), Kusanagi(a sword) and Yata no kagami(a mirror) are known as the Three Sacred Treasures or The Imperial Regalia of Japan (Sanshu no Jingi). The Sanshu no Jingi are considered core symbols of the Shinto belief system, as well as the symbols of authority and legitimacy for the presiding Emperor of Japan.

http://www.japan-zone.com/omnibus/pix/shinto.gif
The Three Sacred Treasures

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Magatamarm.jpg/180px-Magatamarm.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Magatamarm.jpg)
Yasakani no magatama necklace (click to enlarge)

According to legend, they were once possessed by Gods such as Susanoo, Amaterasu and Ama-no-Uzume and later descended to the Japanese Imperial line through Amaterasu's grandson, Ninigi-no-Mikoto (ancestor of the imperial line) and became symbols of the Japanese Emperor's divinity as a descendant of Amaterasu.

In modern Japan, the magatama's shape of a sphere with a flowing tail is still the usual visual representation of the human spirit (hitodama). Wearing one during life is considered a way of gaining protections from kami(god).

You can read the details here:
Sanshu no Jingi (http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:9KwBKGICgdkJ:www.tsuki-kage.com/darwin.html+Yasakani+no+Magatama+core+of+belief+sy stem+shintoism&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=my)
Imperial Regalia of Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Regalia_of_Japan)
Yasakani no Magatama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magatama#Yasakani_no_Magatama)
Mythology (http://www.uwec.edu/philrel/shimbutsudo/amaterasu.html)

Sorry, I could've written up a more organized and informative thread than this but I don't have the time to do so. :sweatdrop I just share the possible connection I found and you do your own research if you're interested. :P

zahid

10-04-2007, 11:19 PM

woah:omg the sword of kusnagi part was intresting can u find some more info on that buddy

Elle

10-05-2007, 12:02 AM

Turrin - This part is also interesting from your quotes above ...In Japanese mythology, the jewels, along with the mirror, were hung on the tree outside of Amaterasu's cave (where she had hidden) to lure her out... Another reference to a Sharingan ability. Wonder if there is any connection between the necklace Rokudo Sannin is wearing and the Uchihas?

Franckie

10-05-2007, 12:10 AM

Thanks for that information.
I thought it was neat that the necklace has 6 beads,
and Pein has six bodies. :hehee

Cavatica

10-05-2007, 12:21 AM

It seems like everything in the manga is working in three's or sixes.

zahid

10-05-2007, 12:23 AM

It seems like everything in the manga is working in three's or sixes.

IT STARTED WITH NINE REMEMBER?:huh
ALL THE ODDS ARE AGAINST US

Athena Citra

10-05-2007, 12:50 AM

People have been theorizing about the necklace for ages. The mock necklace I've seen looks different from The Sage's. The beads are similar, however, they are all around the chain, not only in the front and there are not only six. I'm positive that his necklace was meant to represent the Six Realms and not the royal treasure.

Nevertheless, if there is a parellel there, Amaterasu would be an Uchiha and obviously not Naruto.

lynxie

10-05-2007, 12:58 AM

Athena Citra

10-05-2007, 01:03 AM

I always thought the shodai Necklace was this treasure. And that it was in Naruto's hands.

And I was expecting Sakura getting some kind of mirror...
valor Sasuke (the sword) , wisdom Sakura (the mirror), and benevolence Naruto (the jewel).

But the neckless that Rokudo Sannin is wearing looks more like it.I think your theory is true. It would make more sense considering the legends of the treasures in comparison to the trio's relationship.

Astaroth

10-05-2007, 02:02 AM

Also, this could be a symbol for the three doujutsu types:
-Sword=valor=Byakugan
-Mirror=wisdom=Sharingan
-Jewel=benevolence=Rinnegan

iu4ia

10-05-2007, 02:48 AM

I also believe the important necklace will be Naruto`s, because it was stated its value

just my opinion even thoght your thread is good and it does bring a point about the existance of one impotant necklace, wich one? this remains to be seen

x_Zen_x

10-05-2007, 09:09 AM

Nice find, that's interesting

Spiral-Kage

10-05-2007, 09:41 AM

Hmm... I'm wondering of the Three Great Doujustsus are all tied to the Gods, somehow. Three Great Gods and their triad of treasures. So far in the manga, the treasures are weeding their presences into the story. It's been suggested that somehow Naruto will acquire all three treasures, which will legitimize his right as Hokage, the champion, coughemporercough, of the village.

Sasuke possesses the sword, and it has been theorized his character based off of Susanoo, the storm god. Their theme of serpents, and Sasuke's lightning prowess.

Naruto might already have the Yasakani no magatama-inspired necklace, that necklace he received from Tsunade, the princess of the village, a heritage from her grandfather, Shodaime. The necklaces of the Shinobi Ancestor and Shodaime are unique, they may not look alike but what if there is still the possibility that Naruto's necklace was once the Ruki's? The gift of one god already bestowed to Naruto.

So that leaves the mirror, if the necklace and sword are already in place. Maybe something to do with Hinata? I find it odd that we have three different types of doujutsu-users in this arc, and we have just heard of the myth of the Three Great Doujutsus.

Shisui

10-05-2007, 10:18 AM

Orochimaru has magatama earrings too. I dunno if they have much significance besides just looking cool.

Fuujin

10-05-2007, 10:24 AM

So who has the mirror? :hm

QuoNina

10-05-2007, 12:43 PM

Oh, good call! Love symbolism!So who has the mirror? :hmHere's a "short" summary on a couple different theories I've seen regarding to the three sacred symbols:

1) Orochimaru and Sasuke: The shape of the jewel is close to Orochimaru's earring. Orochimaru and Sasuke both hold the sword (another treasure). And the mirror, Yata no kagami, honestly reflects the soul. Which is analogous to Uchiha bloodline limits that discerns every movement as if they can read someone's mind.

2) Bloodlines: Yata no kagami is an eight-sided mirror that can reflect the soul. And the shape is comparable to the eight trigram, or bagua, in the divination field of Hyuuga clan. And then we got Sasuke from Uchiha clan being the sword holder (second treasure)... the jewel/necklace for Renningan...It is as if Kishimoto has pretty much used the sacred items on each of these doujutsu inheritance.

Bagua mirrors (a kind of 8-sided mirrors) can be used to reflect the soul of demons or ghosts. But I am not sure if it's related to Yata no kagami from Shinto mythology, or just coincidence. Yata no kagami reflects virtue of the soul more than anything else. That sounds a bit different from the uses of bagua mirrors, though they do emphasize on reflection of the "true soul".

Hyuuga's divination field resembles the real eight trigrams (bagua) alot. Kishi may try to draw the eight trigrams so that it is analogous to Yata no kagami in Hyuuga clan, or he may not. Think as you please, ...doesn't matter that much, lol. But I am interested to see whether or not the Shinto legend regarding to the Yata no kagami actually has a connection with bagua (eight trigrams).

- - - - -

These symbols represents nobility and they are to be passed down to emperors. If the second hypothesis is true, it's pretty interesting that Kishimoto uses these symbols on characters who inherit those doujutsus. Those doujutsus, indeed, represent noble assets being passed down through generations.

- - - - -

But, on the other hand, like Gentz mentioned, Orochimaru's earrings are comparable to the shape of the jewels as well. In fact, it looks like a tomoe to me. I guess those comma-shaped designs are commonly seen in Shinto symbolism.

[/"data analyzing"]

Turrin

10-05-2007, 01:10 PM

i already posted a thread on this awhile ago but i don't think many read it or cared

Kuroro

10-05-2007, 01:17 PM

A very interesting read. I can't wait to see how it'll work itself into the manga even more so than ever.

Shisui

10-05-2007, 01:58 PM

1) Orochimaru and Sasuke: The shape of the jewel is close to Orochimaru's earring. Orochimaru and Sasuke both hold the sword (another treasure). And the mirror, Yata no kagami, honestly reflects the soul. Which is analogous to Uchiha bloodline limits that discerns every movement as if they can read someone's mind.

I think that's the most likely explanation. Uchiha seem to be more closely connected to Shinto than any other characters in the manga. And if anything is meant to resemble the Yata no Kagami, it's probably the sharingan.

In the Shinto legend, Ame no Uzume hung the mirror outside of the cave where Amaterasu was in hiding, and when she saw her brilliant reflection in the mirror she emerged. When the Databook describes Itachi's Amaterasu it says "everything caught in the reflection of his eyes turns to ash." I get the feeling that Kishimoto probably had the mirror in mind when he chose that wording.

Tio Sam

10-05-2007, 05:07 PM

lets chek if I undersdtood this information:
-Yasakani no magatama = necklace that belongs to some god's descendadt (and belonged to rikudu)
-kusanagi = a magical sword related to gods too (and held by Sasuke and Oro)
-Yata no kagami = a mirror from the shinto myth that reflects the souls virtue and somehow related to sharingan
-Bagua mirrors = mirrors that reflects the true soul, somehow related to hyuugas

too much simbolism, kishi is realy messing with the myths and legends putting them all inside his PNJ

Almaseti

10-05-2007, 05:33 PM

Hmm, this is an interesting idea. The byakugan would be associated with the mirror most, I think, not only because of the trigrams technique but also because of the range of their vision (bagua mirrors reflect in 8 directions... hmm, remember Neji with the 8 birds?) and ho their eyes probably look more like mirrors than anyone else's. That one seems to have clearest connection.

The sharingan have 3 tomoe when activated, and MS looks like 3 of those jewels aligned together by the holes. There are pictures, particularly when Deidara and Sai first met Itachi and Sasuke, of the 3 tomoe with a line through them, making it seem like the Uchiha should be connected with the necklace, but Sasuke is the one with a sword called Kusanagi and rinnegan-man is the one with the tomoe necklace.

Jiraiya called the rin'negan "ripple-looking." The actual appearance is a series of rings, closer to the overall shape of a necklace, although lacking the tomoe.

None of the eyes seem to have much connection to the sword, although Itachi did use a katana to kill the Uchiha clan and Sasuke has Kusanagi. Madara hasn't been seen with a sword at all, though.

So, I dunno. If it was a little more clear-cut it would be cool, but the rinnegan and sharingan bleed over in terms of symbolism too much. It might just be hit and miss with Kishi.

Denizen

10-05-2007, 05:36 PM

Back to Okami similarities again.

Yakushi Kabuto

10-07-2007, 01:02 AM

Oh, an interesting look at that necklace, it does make sense that something of significance could be attributed to the design considering it was just about the only clear thing we could see on him. Was wondering if any of the two remaining items out of the Sanshu no Jingi would make a tangible appearence aside from Kusanagi.

Hm, merged two threads on the subject.

maximilyan

10-07-2007, 04:26 PM

:nuts pretty sick info man.. im feelin the sword and its story.

Mibu Clan

12-05-2008, 03:58 PM

Thought this should get revived...

MS81

12-05-2008, 04:41 PM

u think it's going to be relavent to upcoming chapters.

Mibu Clan

12-05-2008, 05:35 PM

Not just relevant, but primary :pimp

Retaliate

12-05-2008, 06:55 PM

I always thought the shodai Necklace was this treasure. And that it was in Naruto's hands.

And I was expecting Sakura getting some kind of mirror...
valor Sasuke (the sword) , wisdom Sakura (the mirror), and benevolence Naruto (the jewel).

But the neckless that Rokudo Sannin is wearing looks more like it.

For somre reason that reminds me of Kingdom Hearts.

Sunabozu

12-06-2008, 01:20 AM

itachi has susanoo, oro has the sword, pein with the necklace, i bet madara has a collection of his own too

it seems that akatsuki has all the treasures. but they still want the bijuus and they want money for the organization, talk about being greedy

MS81

12-06-2008, 02:44 AM

what u guys think if Sasuke gets the Rikudou necklace???:huh

because I know he's gonna have the mirror and the sword of totsuka.

Mr. Stud Muffin

12-06-2008, 03:10 AM

vered

12-06-2008, 03:25 AM

yea rokudou has the third treasure,the necklace as we can see from the 2 panels he has been showed in the manga.
In modern Japan, the magatama's shape of a sphere with a flowing tail is still the usual visual representation of the human spirit (hitodama). Wearing one during life is considered a way of gaining protections from kami(god).
if the shape represent the human soul it can actually explain or connect to some of the things we saw that relate to the rinnegan and pein soul related powers.

Turrin

12-06-2008, 05:01 AM

Wow i made this thread a long time ago. I think its likely that the three treasures all orginally belonged to Rikudo-Sage when the Shinobi world was just forming and like the Bijuu that three treasures were split between the three main shinobi forces or clans. Uchiha/Sharigan got the Mirror, Hyuuga/Byakugan got the Sword of Ksunagi, and Rannigan maintained the necklace. Just like how the bijuu were divided by konoha to spread peace, but konoha maintained the strongest bijuu. Rikudo or his successors probably held onto the strongest item.

Orochimaru probably stole the final treasure from the hyuuga clan or it fell out of the hyuuga clan's hands and he recovered it at some point during his time in konoha. Another theory would be that Senju got the sword of Ksunagi instead of hyuuga, but i would bank more on the three great dojutsu clans. Since the Mirror and the Ksunagi sword have already played a part i expect that we will get to see the power of the necklace during the Pain fight or when the final body is confronted.

Since the Mirror Cuts Reflects/Blocks anything(Probably nearly anything) and the Ksunagi sword cuts through nearly anything its likely that the Necklace would allow some on to seal anything or whatever is left besides attack and defend.

what u guys think if Sasuke gets the Rikudou necklace???

because I know he's gonna have the mirror and the sword of totsuka
If Sasuke is going to be the final villain i think this would be a good idea since he likely has the mirror from Itachi and could aquire the sword from Kabutomaru during their battle or his sword might be the real one. Then if Pain gets defeated he could also get the neckless which would all combine to be used with Susanoo to make him nearly unstoppable.

My idea would be that Sasuke can give Susanoo his sword of Ksuangi charged with Raiton which would be amplified by Susanoo to allow it to cut through anything, while the mirror would block any attack directed at him and mabye the necklace would allow Sasuke to use a stable Susanoo that didn't kill him after using it to much and give it further power. That would be an extremely deadly combo

Nikushimi

12-06-2008, 05:44 AM

I thought the three items included the Totsuka no Tsurugi, not the Kusanagi no Tsurugi.

Kusanagi is related to a separate story, as I recall. Susano'o slayed the Yamata no Orochi and obtained the sword that he named "Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi" or something like that.

If it is indeed the Magatama that the Rikudou Sennin wears, then it is interesting how Itachi ended up with the Totsuka no Tsurugi and the Yata no Kagami...

MS81

12-06-2008, 08:38 AM

If Sasuke is going to be the final villain i think this would be a good idea since he likely has the mirror from Itachi and could aquire the sword from Kabutomaru during their battle or his sword might be the real one. Then if Pain gets defeated he could also get the neckless which would all combine to be used with Susanoo to make him nearly unstoppable.

My idea would be that Sasuke can give Susanoo his sword of Ksuangi charged with Raiton which would be amplified by Susanoo to allow it to cut through anything, while the mirror would block any attack directed at him and mabye the necklace would allow Sasuke to use a stable Susanoo that didn't kill him after using it to much and give it further power. That would be an extremely deadly combo

this is where I don't agree dude, I think Sasuke should get it at the end of the manga like 5 years after Kakashi or Naruto is Hokage.

settings

12-06-2008, 09:06 AM

Keep in mind that Susanoo has the earring in the shape of Magatama jewel:
http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000393/03.jpg
http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000392/11.jpg
http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000392/04-05.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Magatama.jpg/180px-Magatama.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magatama#Yasakani_no_Magatama

MS81

12-06-2008, 09:29 AM

Klue

12-06-2008, 09:46 AM

Notice that Itachi had 2 of the 3 Imperial items...

Sword of Totsuka (which may or may not be a stronger form of the Sword of Kusanagi) and Yata's mirror.

And yes, Sasuke now has 2 of those items in his possession thanks to his brother. Damn. Talk about being rigged.

Any Uchiha that obtains the Mangekyou, masters the Amaterasu and Tskuyomi will then unlock Susanoo - along with the Sword of Totsuka and Yata's Mirror. Itachi did not give it to Sasuke.

HawkMan

12-06-2008, 10:06 AM

Any Uchiha that obtains the Mangekyou, masters the Amaterasu and Tskuyomi will then unlock Susanoo - along with the Sword of Totsuka and Yata's Mirror. Itachi did not give it to Sasuke.
That's not necessarily true, some(myself included) believe that Itachi found those items for Susanoo.

MS81

12-06-2008, 02:20 PM

That's not necessarily true, some(myself included) believe that Itachi found those items for Susanoo.

soo... what would you say if Sasuke got the rikudou necklace from Nagato or Pain w/o yata mirror or totsuka sword?:huh

AkiraDono

12-06-2008, 07:25 PM

So who has the mirror? :hm

Itachi had the mirror...

Susanoo is a technique that creates a spiritual being resembling a yamabushi wielding the sacred Yata no Kagami (八咫鏡, Eight Span Mirror), a mirror that's considered one of the three sacred treasures capable of reflecting all attacks, as a shield in its left hand, and in its right, the legendary Totsuka no Tsurugi (十拳剣, Ten Hands Long Sword), also known as the Sakenagi Longsword (酒刈太刀, Sakenagi no Tachi; Sake Cutter Longsword).

http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000392/04-05.jpg
http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000392/16.jpg
http://img55.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000392/17.jpg

and i think that its possible that the necklace (Yasakani no magatama) could have been the one Rikodou Senin was wearing.

Yondaime

12-06-2008, 08:26 PM

Oh, so much irony.:awesome

I wouldn't be surprised though.