Darth Vader vs. Rogue Squadron

[Dark Ascendant]

Situation 1: Old school Rogues (Wedge, Tycho, Corran, Gavin, etc) from the book, X-Wing: Rogue Squadron take on Darth Vader in a dogfight. Vader's in his TIE Advanced x1.

Situation 2: NJO Rogues (Gavin, Jaina, etc) from the Battle of Dantooine in the book, NJO: Dark Tide I: Onslaught, take on Darth Vader in a dogfight. This time, Vader gets a TIE Defender.

Who vapes whom?

[Wesley]

According to the novels, Force-sensitives don't have a huge edge over certain elite pilots like those of the old Rogues due to their state of minds. Luke was the best pilot because he was the best pilot, not because he could use the Force. I'd assume the same would hold true for Vader.

[Dream Brother]

Vader loses both times.

No matter how good he is with both the force and piloting skills (and he is incredible with both, it should be noted) it simply cannot compensate for the number advantage the Rogues possess in both scenarios. Maybe if he was facing lesser pilots, he'd come out on top, but Rogues are always excellent; Wedge and Tycho in particular are beasts, from the perspective of the old squad.

In both situations, he'd most likely manage to take a few with him, but he'd ultimately be killed before finishing them all off.

[narutofangd]

I'm going with Vader there were instances in the CW where he took on multiple enemies on a number of occasions

[strongarm85]

Even taking clone wars into account Anakin was facing droid fighters. The problem with droid fighters is they rely on they make all of their movements based on programming. While they are greater than your average fighter pilot, your above average pilots and your elite pilots can smoke them because their moves are too predictable.

I think that Vader would have a hard time in both battles regardless of wither or not he wins. Vader's piloting abilities are greater than Wedge's who is by far the best pilot of the early Rouges. The X-wings can match his speed, but they beat Vader in terms of fire power. That said Vader has the force. If Vader had any sort of backup facing against the old school rouges (1 squadron of tie fighters) he would undoubtedly win. But if its just Vader he looses.

Vader in the TIE defender still has problems against the second generation Rouges. Jaina Solo is a great pilot, and to top it off they have the new XJ X-wings in that battle which gives them an advantage in maneuverability and firepower that exceeds the Tie Deffender, and the 2nd generation Rouges win because of that. If he where piloting one of the new Chiss fighters he would win.

[Sylar]

Wedge takes Vader in the first one.

Jaina takes Vader in the second one.

[narutofangd]

Vader is the best pilot in the galaxy

He would destroy wedge

[TWF]

Difficult for Vader? Very much. Vader losing? No.

[strongarm85]

No Vader looses both battles, but thats because in both battles he's outnumbered by elite fighter pilots who have better ships.

[TWF]

No Vader looses both battles, but thats because in both battles he's outnumbered by elite fighter pilots who have better ships.

Pre-Cognition gives an advantage of either. And no, Jaina, Wedge, Tycho, Gavin are not better pilots to even compare to Vader.

Baron Fel is just as good as Wedge and he shits on both of them. And proof that X-Wings a Advanced Tie-Fighter that shits on a Defenders speed and shielding?

[strongarm85]

You are 100% wrong, and I had 4 paragraph response to point out all the reason why your worng, but my login got timed out and this stuppid computer didn't copy my post when I did a Ctrl+A Ctrl+C. But later, your going down :)

[TWF]

You are 100% wrong, and I had 4 paragraph response to point out all the reason why your worng, but my login got timed out and this stuppid computer didn't copy my post when I did a Ctrl+A Ctrl+C. But later, your going down :)

Yeah okay. Considering Vader's Tie-Advanced out performs A-Wings and Interceptors on the speed alone, not too mention the powers that be have given Vader one of the greatest strengths in pre-cognition in the SWuniverse.

No. Tycho, Wedge and the rest of the old rogues would get slaughtered like most of the squadron did against Vader on Yavin.

New Rogues might last a few more minutes based on the fact they have improved, newer X-Wing models and one Force-Sensitive who isn't all that powerful to begin with as a pilot.

[Wesley]

Yavin was a turkey shoot for Red Squadron. That's not exactly fair.

[TWF]

If you believe any of these pilots who stands a fair chance in open space against Vader, that's fine. But believing any of them could out fly Vader and beat him, even as a group of elite pilots is quite another reality.

[strongarm85]

Not, its actually quite true that in both cases Vader would loose. You see your problem is that you've succumbed to Fanboyism. You see the thing about precognition with the force is you can't control what you see or when your going to see it. In the case of Vader, no, he was not particualarly good at Precognition. Although he has several vissions that he sees all the time, the fact of the matter is he can't control those visions well enough to make using them a viable combat option. If he could Obi-wan would have never beat Vader at Mustifar. In fact the one force talent I am aware of that Vader has even worse ability to control his force healing abilities. Anakin was a combat focused Jedi during most of his career as a Jedi, but the Precognition that your speaking of is barely more powerfull than a Spidey Sense and if you have all of Rouge squadron working together to take down Vader, both scenarios easily overcome Vader.

In the first example speed is the only thing that the TIE Advanced 1X has going for it. The sheilds arn't strong enough to take more than one or two hits and with some of the best pilots the Republic ever had running against him vader would be way matched.

By the way, that Jedi "who isn't all that powerful to begin with" is Jaina Solo, thats Anakin's Grandaughter and Han Solo's daddy's girl. From the time she was old enough to walk her father started showing her how to fly and maintain the Falcon. Not only that, but by the time the New Jedi order began she was well trained Jedi. Her accomplishments in a fighter far outweight where anything Anakin did in the clone wars, especially against fighters that the force doesn't work on, far exceeds Anakin's. With all of Rouge squadron and a better fighters She can't loose. It'll be a dogged match, but she would get him.

[Wesley]

Remember when Clone pilots nailed Jedi pilots when Order 66 was initatied? Old school Rouges fly like that. Nothing in their minds to tip their hands. :cool

[TWF]

You think these guys can match Darth fucking Vader? He isn't fodder. And besides people like Plo Koon can't feel the malicious intent to activate their pre-cog if the Clones emotions before attacking him are nill.

[Crimson Dragoon]

You think these guys can match Darth fucking Vader? He isn't fodder. And besides people like Plo Koon can't feel the malicious intent to activate their pre-cog if the Clones emotions before attacking him are nill.

Don't forget Palpatine's Shroud of the Darkside. In AoTC, Mace pretty much says that their ability to use the Force has been diminished somewhat because of it. The Shroud is also mentioned in the ROTS novel.