View Full Version : Luke vs Kharn the Betrayer
Well ,it was bound to happen some day.
Background: Luke was sent to investigate the razing of a large Imperial city on the outskirts of the galaxy. Once there, he finds Kharn admist the rubble(middle of a destroyed park with all the trees burnt down, in fact). Kharn is angrier then the hulk in super-pissed mode. His chain axe runs on anger. Luke decides he has to stop Kharn right now.
Force==Warp powers in this. Who wins?
Darklyre
09-12-2007, 04:05 AM
Unfortunately for Luke, Kharn's packing a Collar of Khorne, which makes him immune to Warp powers. Considering Force = Warp....
Oh, and Kharn's also packing a plasma pistol, which can't be deflected like bullets or blaster shots.
Gaelek_13
09-12-2007, 08:49 AM
Well ,it was bound to happen some day.
Background: Luke was sent to investigate the razing of a large Imperial city on the outskirts of the galaxy. Once there, he finds Kharn admist the rubble(middle of a destroyed park with all the trees burnt down, in fact). Kharn is angrier then the hulk in super-pissed mode. His chain axe runs on anger. Luke decides he has to stop Kharn right now.
Force==Warp powers in this. Who wins?
Based on that alone Kharn takes Luke apart:
+ Gorechild is a Daemon Weapon and so I doubt a Lightsaber is cutting it
+ Kharn is immune to Warp Powers (and for this fight Force = Warp)
+ Ordinarily Kharn is resistant to mind powers anyway
+ Kharn is very, very pissed off
Springlake
09-12-2007, 09:19 AM
Add to that Kharn is a 12' monster that can tear normal tanks appart with his hands, spit saliva that melt Steel, aperently can't be killed, (read his backgroud, he was killed during the siege of the Emperor Palace but later was resurrected, unknown though if it was Khornes foul play or Kharns own willpower who did it) AND wear Power Armour and has the equivalence of a Refractor Field.
Enclave
09-12-2007, 12:29 PM
Luke would still have his super human speed, reaction times and pre-cog. Also what makes you so sure the lightsaber cannot deflect plasma shots?
If I recall in a fight against the Vong (immune to force powers) it was mentioned that Luke was wielding 1 lightsaber and it looked more like 20 or something (sleepy, cannot remember exactly right now) so really that has to count for something in this fight, doesn't it?
Darklyre
09-12-2007, 01:06 PM
Plasma shots can't be deflected because they're basically flying globs of superheated liquid. Unlike bullets or blaster shots, which are coherent, trying to block plasma with a lightsaber is like trying to block a bowl of jello thrown in your face with a fork. If Luke tries to use Force Telekinesis to block it he'll still be pinned down by plasma fire (and Kharn apparently doesn't need to reload his gun, yay Warped Power Armor) and that'd allow Kharn to move into melee range. Even if a lightsaber could cut through the power armor, it'd take time, since in Episode 1 it took Qui-Gonn a while to carve a hole in that door.
Orion
09-12-2007, 01:30 PM
Plasma shots can't be deflected because they're basically flying globs of superheated liquid. Unlike bullets or blaster shots, which are coherent, trying to block plasma with a lightsaber is like trying to block a bowl of jello thrown in your face with a fork. If Luke tries to use Force Telekinesis to block it he'll still be pinned down by plasma fire (and Kharn apparently doesn't need to reload his gun, yay Warped Power Armor) and that'd allow Kharn to move into melee range. Even if a lightsaber could cut through the power armor, it'd take time, since in Episode 1 it took Qui-Gonn a while to carve a hole in that door.
To be fair that wasnt a regular metal door it was made from future super metals.
Darklyre
09-12-2007, 01:48 PM
And Space Marine armor isn't?
Enclave
09-12-2007, 01:54 PM
Thing is though as far as I can recall we are not sure what blaster bolts are composed of. It certainly isn't light as they do not travel at light speed and I have seen people suggest that it could be plasma. Also, if he decides to deflect them with the Force why would he be pinned down with plasma fire? For somebody who has moved black holes I would think deflecting some plasma away from himself would be childs play.
Also you need to remember of course the fact that plasma is ionized gas so I don't quite get where you got the jello reference from.
Luke >>>>>>> Abaddon.
Abaddon >>>>>>>>>> Kharn.
Do the fucking math. Emerald Lightning rapes Kharn.
Champion of Khorne or not, no Chaos Champion is taking Luke down. You WH40K wank Kharn to much.
Last I checked, everyone agreed that Abaddon wasn't capable of beating Luke and he certainly is stronger then Kharn.
Oh yeah. Since it was generally agreed that Prime Luke/Reborn Emperor = Chaos Horus, how the fuck do Abaddon or Kharn the Betrayer beat either of those three?
They can't.
Estrecca
09-12-2007, 03:37 PM
Oh yeah. Since it was generally agreed that Prime Luke/Reborn Emperor = Chaos Horus, how the fuck do Abaddon or Kharn the Betrayer beat either of those three?
Whoever agreed with this needs to quit smoking whatever they are smoking. Dark Empire Palpatine doesn't cut it against Chaos Horus and I'd say that it is iffy against Primarch Horus.
Whoever agreed with this needs to quit smoking whatever they are smoking. Dark Empire Palpatine doesn't cut it against Chaos Horus and I'd say that it is iffy against Primarch Horus.
Yeah whatever floats your boat. Abaddon is joke, Kharn even more so.
Estrecca
09-12-2007, 04:26 PM
Yeah whatever floats your boat. Abaddon is joke, Kharn even more so.
Yeah sure. A joke. :S
At El'phanor, his forces assaulted the Citadel of the Kromarch; a fastness built with all the cunning its designers could muster. It was pierced with but a single portal, a mighty gate of adamantium, fully three metres thick, but Abaddon cared not ... Abaddon laughed, raising his sword wreathed in black flames high above his head and smote the gate a blow that smashed it to splinters and shook the very foundations of the citadel.
If that hits anywhere in the general neighbourhood of Luke Skywalker, he is dead.
It took Abaddon 13 Black Crusades to accomplish what Horus did in a week. And how would Abaddon survive if Luke threw him into a star telekenetically? And yeah, he's only so powerful because of the four Chaos Gods blessing him. Any of the Daemon Primarchs would put him in his place.
Estrecca
09-12-2007, 04:36 PM
It took Abaddon 13 Black Crusades to accomplish what Horus did in a week.
Well. There was the whole Horus having a much larger support among the Chaos forces, a lot more blessings from the Chaos Gods and surprise in his side. However, Abaddon still hasn't done anything even remotely approaching what Horus managed to do and I won't deny that the guy is a loser.
Which has no bearing whatsoever when debating his personal fighting skills.
And how would Abaddon survive if Luke threw him into a star telekenetically?
Proof of Luke being able to do such a thing? He has never shown telekinesis even remotely approaching this level of power. And Abbadon's anti-psyker wards should offer some protection against psionic phenomena, if I have understood correctly Battledome standards.
And yeah, he's only so powerful because of the four Chaos Gods blessing him. Any of the Daemon Primarchs would put him in his place.
Yes for the first. Probably yes for the second, too.
A half dozen or so weak Jedi apprentices barring Kyp Durron threw 17 Imperial Star Destroyers out of orbit from Yavin IV and put them at the edge of the Yavin Solar System.
Yeah I'm pretty sure a guy leagues more powerful then them all could do the same thing to Abaddon. And considering there is a massive difference in tthose runes that Abaddon uses and Luke's telekentic and Force powers. Also if the guy is able to shield planets, his telekentic powers are the same.
Or a Force Storm with CIS off since he studied all of the techniques of the darkside under Palpatine. You over-rate Abaddon.
Crimson Dragoon
09-12-2007, 04:43 PM
Those Jedi apprentices were powered up by a bunch of Sith Temples, IIRC.
I don't remember reading that in the Champions of the Force. How is that possible? :confused
Estrecca
09-12-2007, 04:48 PM
A half dozen or so weak Jedi apprentices barring Kyp Durron threw 17 Imperial Star Destroyers out of orbit from Yavin IV and put them at the edge of the Yavin Solar System.
Yes. Using the force enhancing Massassi Temples in the powerful Force Nexus of Yavin 4. And the guy that was the focus for that particular trick died doing it. Not to mention that no similar trick has been seen in any Star Wars publication since then, to the best of my knowledge.
And considering there is a massive difference in tthose runes that Abaddon uses and Luke's telekentic and Force powers. Also if the guy is able to shield planets, his telekentic powers are the same.
No. Jedi skills don't work that way. The Corran line is piss poor in telekinesis and has that neat energy redirection ability. If you want that Luke can do what you claim, prove it. The best you are going to find is his destruction of Vader's fortress in Coruscant from Tyrant's Test, I think.
And what was the planet that Luke shielded, btw?
Or a Force Storm with CIS off since he studied all of the techniques of the darkside under Palpatine. You over-rate Abaddon.
Using the Force Storm in personal combat is suicide. And unlike Palpatine, Luke doesn't have backup bodies in storage. That would be a M.A.D. maneuver.
First off, prove how using a Force Storm would be negative to Luke. There was no negative effects to Palpatine, he summonded in a distance away from himself.
Crimson Dragoon
09-12-2007, 04:50 PM
I don't remember reading that in the Champions of the Force. How is that possible? :confused
Wasn't the ISD fleet pushing feat from Darksaber?
Enclave
09-12-2007, 04:52 PM
Proof of Luke being able to do such a thing? He has never shown telekinesis even remotely approaching this level of power. And Abbadon's anti-psyker wards should offer some protection against psionic phenomena, if I have understood correctly Battledome standards.
I believe Luke has moved a black hole using the Force hasn't he? He also has ripped the hull off a star destroyer. Both those tk feats would suggest tossing somebody into the sun would be childsplay.
Luke was also stated to resist the effects of any powers, once rooted into the Force, he could not be budged, even by the power of a black hole in NJO.
Estrecca
09-12-2007, 04:55 PM
First off, prove how using a Force Storm would be negative to Luke. There was no negative effects to Palpatine, he summonded in a distance away from himself.
Problem is if these two are fighting, then they are close and the Force Storm is going to kill them both. Palpatine didn't summon a Force Storm against Luke after having his hand cut. He summoned it against the Rebel fleet floating kilometers away from his supership to prove the awesome powah of the Dark Side.
Fighting in a starship creates limitations in comparison to open fighting on a planet.
Gaelek_13
09-12-2007, 06:13 PM
Luke >>>>>>> Abaddon.
Abaddon >>>>>>>>>> Kharn.
Do the fucking math. Emerald Lightning rapes Kharn.
Champion of Khorne or not, no Chaos Champion is taking Luke down. You WH40K wank Kharn to much.
Last I checked, everyone agreed that Abaddon wasn't capable of beating Luke and he certainly is stronger then Kharn.
It was also agreed that Force = Warp for this fight and Kharn is immune to the Warps power.
So were the Vong, didn't work out to well for them against Luke.
Luke >>>>>>> Abaddon.
Abaddon >>>>>>>>>> Kharn.
Do the fucking math. Emerald Lightning rapes Kharn.
Champion of Khorne or not, no Chaos Champion is taking Luke down. You WH40K wank Kharn to much.
Last I checked, everyone agreed that Abaddon wasn't capable of beating Luke and he certainly is stronger then Kharn.
It was also agreed that Force = Warp for this fight and Kharn is immune to the Warps power.
Hence Kharn is immune to Emerald Lightning unless it comes from somewhere other than the force. Just cause Abbadon > Kharn doesn't mean if you can beat Abbadon you can auto-beat Kharn. They have different abilities. Like how in this Kharn would have force immunity, and I don't believe Abbadon does. Of course, Luke still gets any force powers that don't target harn specifically, such as pre-cog (though I guess he wouldn't be able to see Kharn in the future. I'm not sure how the psychic immunity affects things like pre-cog and stuff). I was considering to make the area a no force zone, but that would have tipped things way to much into Kharn's domain. Also, this is 4rth ed Chaos codex Kharn, not the 2nd 3rd ed book.
So were the Vong, didn't work out to well for them against Luke.
Were the Vong space marines with weapons that run on anger, in addition to being one of the toughest and most powerful there is? Kharn is the reason the World Eaters legion was shattered into random groups of berzerkers! There are very few things he can be compared to. He could probably take on a rampaging Carnifex or Hive tyrant and win (even against my pro-nid bias)!
Hence Kharn is immune to Emerald Lightning unless it comes from somewhere other than the force. Just cause Abbadon > Kharn doesn't mean if you can beat Abbadon you can auto-beat Kharn. They have different abilities. Like how in this Kharn would have force immunity, and I don't believe Abbadon does. Of course, Luke still gets any force powers that don't target harn specifically, such as pre-cog (though I guess he wouldn't be able to see Kharn in the future. I'm not sure how the psychic immunity affects things like pre-cog and stuff). I was considering to make the area a no force zone, but that would have tipped things way to much into Kharn's domain. Also, this is 4rth ed Chaos codex Kharn, not the 2nd 3rd ed book.
Were the Vong space marines with weapons that run on anger, in addition to being one of the toughest and most powerful there is? Kharn is the reason the World Eaters legion was shattered into random groups of berzerkers! There are very few things he can be compared to. He could probably take on a rampaging Carnifex or Hive tyrant and win (even against my pro-nid bias)!
Luke throws Kharn into a star. End of fucking story. And it seems you have absolutely no idea what the Vong are.
Darklyre
09-13-2007, 02:05 AM
Um, if you haven't gotten it yet, Force = Warp in this battle, and the Collar of Khorne makes Kharn IMMUNE TO ALL WARP POWERS.
What's stopping Luke from droping a ship on his head? He can still use his powers to the enviroment against other things.
Darklyre
09-13-2007, 02:09 AM
Well, considering there are Space Marines who have survived being stepped on by Titans....
Well, considering there are Space Marines who have survived being stepped on by Titans....
Which is an absolute rarity. Unless your telling me that a Titan weighs more then a warship, which I severely dobut.
Darklyre
09-13-2007, 02:17 AM
Wait, where is Luke getting the warship from anyway? They're in the middle of a razed Imperial city on the outskirts of nowhere!
I'm talking on conjencture. And even still, a couple hundred tons of repeated smashy smashy would put down even Kharn. And yes, before you ask, Luke has done crazy telekentic feats with the Force.
Enclave
09-13-2007, 05:04 AM
Hence Kharn is immune to Emerald Lightning unless it comes from somewhere other than the force. Just cause Abbadon > Kharn doesn't mean if you can beat Abbadon you can auto-beat Kharn. They have different abilities. Like how in this Kharn would have force immunity, and I don't believe Abbadon does. Of course, Luke still gets any force powers that don't target harn specifically, such as pre-cog (though I guess he wouldn't be able to see Kharn in the future. I'm not sure how the psychic immunity affects things like pre-cog and stuff). I was considering to make the area a no force zone, but that would have tipped things way to much into Kharn's domain. Also, this is 4rth ed Chaos codex Kharn, not the 2nd 3rd ed book.
Were the Vong space marines with weapons that run on anger, in addition to being one of the toughest and most powerful there is? Kharn is the reason the World Eaters legion was shattered into random groups of berzerkers! There are very few things he can be compared to. He could probably take on a rampaging Carnifex or Hive tyrant and win (even against my pro-nid bias)!
His pre-cog abilities seem to work well against the Vong.
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