God-Emperor of Mankind vs Luke Skywalker

[A]

From what I've hear Luke at his prime is quite powerful, how does he fare against Pre-heresy Emperor?

[strongarm85]

I have no idea who that is, but Luke worked together with a force sensitive planet to fire a huge burst of force lightning that destroyed crippled the an entire Yuuzhan Vong Fleet and brought an end to the New Jedi Order series.

So Luke has my vote until until this other guy can do one better.

[Endless Mike]

The Emperor can fire blasts as powerful as supernovae while he's dying.

[strongarm85]

Oh, I didn't realize we where dealing with a complete RAPE here. Theres only a so much a Jedi can do with the force, even if that Jedi is Luke Skywalker. God-Emperor of Mankind take it.

Now if this where GEoMK vs. the Force, the Force would win.

[TWF]

Give Luke the Kaiburr Crystal and we have a different game going on.

[A]

Now if this where GEoMK vs. the Force, the Force would win.
If we go by the Star Wars comics printed by Marvel, then the force is the Holy Spirit, and an aspect of The-One-Above-All.

[Estrecca]

Give Luke the Kaiburr Crystal and we have a different game going on.

No, actually it doesn't, particularly if the fight doesn't take place in Mimban itself. You need something along the lines of Luke gaining the full power of the Valley of the Jedi for him to become a meaningful player in the big leagues of Warhammer 40k.

[TWF]

No, actually it doesn't, particularly if the fight doesn't take place in Mimban itself. You need something along the lines of Luke gaining the full power of the Valley of the Jedi for him to become a meaningful player in the big leagues of Warhammer 40k.

The Kaibur Crystal from Lucas's own words state it would multiply a being power in the Force a thousand fold. Given Luke's power already, yes it would. The Valley of the Jedi is shit.

[Wesley]

Never heard of it.

[TWF]

Never heard of it.

Read Splinter of Mind's Eye, it's an EU novel written by George Lucas.

[A]

The Kaibur Crystal from Lucas's own words state it would multiply a being power in the Force a thousand fold. Given Luke's power already, yes it would. The Valley of the Jedi is shit.
But the power of a star is millions of times greater than a planet, thousand don't quite cut it.

[TWF]

Proof of God Emperor making supernova blasts. The same people hyped alpha class librarians as planet destroyers which even your own WH40K fans found as fanwank and simply hype.

[Goodfellow]

Proof of God Emperor making supernova blasts. The same people hyped alpha class librarians as planet destroyers which even your own WH40K fans found as fanwank and simply hype.

Good point. The alpha class psions have a tendency to vary in power depending on who wrote the canon, or so I've heard <.<

[Estrecca]

Proof of God Emperor making supernova blasts. The same people hyped alpha class librarians as planet destroyers which even your own WH40K fans found as fanwank and simply hype.

The supernova claim comes from Bill King's short story (official, published in the White Dwarf magazine), that I already quoted in the GEoM vs Thanos thread. The relevant part follows:

The Emperor sees the trap that has been set for him. He has been restraining himself, trying not to hurt one who had been as a son to him. Now he sees that there is no trace of his trusted comrade left. He knows that he must stop this semblance of his former friend and avenge the fallen Terminator. He must strike one deadly blow. He will get no other chance.

He gathers every particle of his power, focuses it into a mighty bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun. He aims it as Horus, a lance of power destined for the madman's heart. Horus senses the upsurge of energy and turns to face the Emperor, a look of horror on his face.

The Emperor lets fly. It strikes the Warmaster. Horus screams as destruction rains down on him, twisting and writhing in titanic agony. He strives frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles become more feeble as the lethal energies play over him.

There is an argument for this being hyperbole, but considering that Tzeentch (who is weaker than the GEoM) is just doing the equivalent of giving a speech when he does this...

When Tzeentch spoke, the planet shook. Its crust and mantle were torn off and to this day, they say, Thalassocres is not one planet but a shoal of drifting continents surrounding a single core. Those not powerful enough to hear the words of Tzeentch were thrown off into the warp, but the strongest stayed, their courts remaining glorious on the floating shelves of melting rock.
Tzeentch spoke to them of impossible things, of the tangled threads of fate that ran through the universe like threads of a tapestry, of the immense shifting components of reality - time, space, the massed minds of humanity and the dozens of alien species that had yet to play their parts, the mindless hordes of predators teeming in the warp, the powers of Chaos themselves. The Greatest of Tzeentch's followers could divine meaning from the stream of concepts the voice of Tzeentch conveyed. Some found intricate plots for them to enact on reality. Others saw glimpses of a future they could alter, or bring to pass. Some saw only desolation and hatred, and revelled in it, for they were the most savage agents of the Change.
Some were destroyed, unable to comprehend the majesty of the Change God's vision.
...
Fore days on end, measured in the strange timescale of the warp, Ghargatuloth recieved the revelation of Tzeentch. The other daemon princes looked on in awe, hatred and jelousy. Some were certain that Ghargatuloth would be destroyed. The daemons at his feet were swept aside by the tide of revelations. The substance of Thalassocres was further fractured by the sheer power of Tzeentch. There was a permanent scar left on the warp, a dark barren shadow, but Ghargatuloth remained.

[A]

There is an argument for this being hyperbole, but considering that Tzeentch (who is weaker than the GEoM) is just doing the equivalent of giving a speech when he does this...
Tzeentch is by no means weaker than the God-Emperor, not even close.

[Estrecca]

Tzeentch is by no means weaker than the God-Emperor, not even close.

Tell that to those Greater Daemons of Tzeentch who, towards the end of Eye Of Terror, showed doubts about the outcome of the fight between Chaos and the GEoM once the Emperor completes his transformation into a Warp God.

[A]

Right ... It was Horus, buffed, against the Emperor.
Like Abaddon, he has the same blessing Horus had, yet it took him 13 crusades to break through the Imperial gates.
You have to understand that the "Horus Heresy" is written partly based on Imperial propaganda.

The hierarchy would go something like this.

Tier V - Chaos Gods
Khorne
Tzeentch
Nurgle
Slaanesh

Tier IV - Racial Gods
Hive-mind
Gork & Mork
Starchild, the God-Emperor
Asuryan
Y'nnead
Khaine
Vaul
Cegorach
Isha
Kurnous
Lileath
Morai-Heg
Gia

Tier III - C'tan Star Gods
Void Dragon
Outsider
Nightbringer
Deceiver

Tier II - Demi-Gods
Pre-Heresy God-Emperor of Mankind
Horus, blessed by the Chaos Gods

Tier I - Primarches
Angron
Sanguinius
Alpharius
Magnus the Red
Ferrus Manus
Konrad Curze
Corax
Fulgrim
Mortarion
Perturabo
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Rogal Dorn
Vulkan
Roboute Guilliman
Lion El'Jonson
<Unknown>
<Unknown>

- Followed by top tier characters and the Greater Daemons etc.

[TWF]

Just to be clear, Prime Luke + Kaiburr Crystal would still be no slouch that the God Emperor to beat.

How powerful would Prime Luke/Kaibur Crystal be with the 4 Chaos God blessing though?

[Art of Run]

Just to be clear, Prime Luke + Kaiburr Crystal would still be no slouch that the God Emperor to beat.

How powerful would Prime Luke/Kaibur Crystal be with the 4 Chaos God blessing though?

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k204/moogle-sama/bl5hrjytsvcdjffoa2k6cgssi5.jpg

[The Pink Ninja]

The God Emperor is actually freaking stronger than the Chaos Gods if you can blieve it :wtf

His very will, the strength of his power was eating away at the Chaos God's power in the warp. That's why they needed Horus.

When Horus face the God Emperor the power of all four God was in him but such was the fury of The Emperor's attack they fled Horus's body.

Even his wards upon The Primarchs were too strong for the Chaos Gods to breach fully. All they could do were scatter the children.

People misunderstand the Chaos Gods. If they were all powerful they would have won by now. If they had flesh bodies people would realise they're more akin too the C'Tan or The Emperor.

If the Chaos Gods are so mighty why are they in such danger from the C'Tan shutting them out of reality?

The Emperor's only weakness was being human. He loved Horus and that was a fatal weakness and opening.

If they'd shut off that damn Throne he'd reincarnate and be just as mighty as he once was.

[TWF]

And Grand Master Luke is stronger then Abaddon, the Leader and Herald of the Four Chaos who is blessed as Horus's successor and clone son.

[The Pink Ninja]

And Grand Master Luke is stronger then Abaddon, the Leader and Herald of the Four Chaos who is blessed as Horus's successor and clone son.

Well Abaddon is well blessed but he's not even as strong as a demon Prince or Greater Demon. The Four Gods were actually in Horus Prime.

And I'd take Abaddon over Luke. He has that badass demon sword afterall.

[TWF]

Luke can kill Abaddon in one hit with Emerald Lightning. And Abaddon is not much weaker then Chaos Horus.

And lol at Greater Daemons or Daemon Princes being stronger then Abaddon. Only the Daemon Primarchs are stronger then him.

[Crimson Dragoon]

Luke can kill Abaddon in one hit with Emerald Lightning. And Abaddon is not much weaker then Chaos Horus.

And lol at Greater Daemons or Daemon Princes being stronger then Abaddon. Only the Daemon Primarchs are stronger then him.

Last time I checked, Abaddon isn't even in the same league as the Primarchs. Chaos Horus>>>>>>>>>>Chaos Abaddon.

[The Pink Ninja]

Luke can kill Abaddon in one hit with Emerald Lightning. And Abaddon is not much weaker then Chaos Horus.

And lol at Greater Daemons or Daemon Princes being stronger then Abaddon. Only the Daemon Primarchs are stronger then him.

Can Emerald Lightning go through Terminator armour? Terminator armour blessed by the Gods of Chaos themselves (4+ invu save rather than 5+). And Abbadon has a Demon Rune too.

Plus I seem to recall he's toughness five. Translated into real terms that the ability to shrugs off sword wounds and bullets.

And yes, Greater Demons and Demon Princes are stronger than Abbadon. They are, afterall, immortal unless killed by their God or in the Warp. In The Chaos Codex there's a bit where one guy wonders why Abby hasn't taken up the prize of immortality yet. It's a step above what he is now.

Sure he's one of the very stronguest special characters in 40K, probably second only too the C'Tan. But he is still a living, human Space Marine. He's what you get if you give a Chapter Commander 10, 000 years to level up.

And what the fuck? He sin't close to Horus.

[TWF]

Don't bring game mechanics from the table top rpg into this lol, TPN. Luke can kill the Hulk with the Emerald Lightning, its always a fatality. He killed a fleet of Vong ships with his lightning.

[The Pink Ninja]

Don't bring game mechanics from the table top rpg into this lol, TPN. Luke can kill the Hulk with the Emerald Lightning, its always a fatality. He killed a fleet of Vong ships with his lightning.

I was trying to rationalise the machinaics into something discussion relavant.

But yeah, if his Emerald Lightning is that strong then Abby is proper fucked.

The Emperor can still take him though :3

[Crimson Dragoon]

Don't bring game mechanics from the table top rpg into this lol, TPN. Luke can kill the Hulk with the Emerald Lightning, its always a fatality. He killed a fleet of Vong ships with his lightning.

You will, of course, cite the quote that says this event happened.

[TWF]

Someone claimed it from Unifying Force.

[Crimson Dragoon]

Someone claimed it from Unifying Force.

I remember reading the book, but I don't recall a character claiming Luke did such a thing. Was it Kyp, Jacen, or someone that I don't know?

[TWF]

Let me check it. I have all of my NJO books in the basement.

[Enclave]

From what I've hear Luke at his prime is quite powerful, how does he fare against Pre-heresy Emperor?

I would say this cannot be answered as we haven't seen Luke at his prime yet.

[A]

The God Emperor is actually freaking stronger than the Chaos Gods if you can blieve it
No he's not, never was and never will be.

His very will, the strength of his power was eating away at the Chaos God's power in the warp. That's why they needed Horus.
No, he was uniting the galaxy, which would mean less suffer which would lead to less rage, scheming, despair and decadence, hence less emotions to feed of for the Chaos Gods.
Besides Horus wanted to worship the Emperor, but the Emperor didn't want to be worshipped, but Horus later found Gods that did.

When Horus face the God Emperor the power of all four God was in him but such was the fury of The Emperor's attack they fled Horus's body.
The Chaos Gods cannot manifest all their power in a living avatar, they used Horus because he had much potential, that could be filled with chaos power.
The Chaos Gods cannot manifest outside of the warp, all the crap about the Gods escaping his body is Imperial propaganda--it was obviously chaos energy.

Even his wards upon The Primarchs were too strong for the Chaos Gods to breach fully. All they could do were scatter the children.
The Emperor made a pact with the Chaos Gods, have you even read the series?

People misunderstand the Chaos Gods. If they were all powerful they would have won by now. If they had flesh bodies people would realise they're more akin too the C'Tan or The Emperor.
They are restricted to the Warp, all they can do is affect the physical universe with some of their essance (greater daemons)

If the Chaos Gods are so mighty why are they in such danger from the C'Tan shutting them out of reality?
Because the C'tan's want to cut the link between the Warp and the physical reality, and greater daemons and possessed warriors are not enough to stop them.

The Emperor's only weakness was being human. He loved Horus and that was a fatal weakness and opening.
You forgot to mention how the Emperor in the past was almost killed by an orc warboss and was saved by Horus.

If they'd shut off that damn Throne he'd reincarnate and be just as mighty as he once was.
Fact is the Imperial does have the tech to actually 'wake him up' but they're afraid of the fact that the Starchild (the soul of the Emperor, in the warp) has been corrupted by Chaos.

All Gods exist within the Warp, with the exception of the C'tan, even the Emperor's soul is there now buffed by the beleif of men.
Yet the four Chaos Gods are stated time after time to be the most powerful beings in the warp.

Why? - Because the racial Gods, unlike the Chaos Gods, feeds of prayer and beleif.
While Khorne for instance feeds of each time someone expresses anger or hate.
The Chaos Gods are for the insecure ones, and their followers don't worship them, in the same sense, all they desire is power. As long as the Gods feed them power they'll return the favor.

The Hive-mind, Gork & Mork are more powerful than the Starchild because outside the M41 galaxy the galaxies are mostly populated by Tyranids and Orks.

[A]

Well Abaddon is well blessed but he's not even as strong as a demon Prince or Greater Demon. The Four Gods were actually in Horus Prime.

And I'd take Abaddon over Luke. He has that badass demon sword afterall.
Again, the God's cannot manifest outside the Warp, all they can do is fill people with Chaos energy, and Horus had the potential necessary.
They did not embody him, if that's what you think.

[Crimson Dragoon]

Do we even know what the circumstances were in that "GEoM got nearly killed by an Ork Warboss" event? For all we know, that Ork was probably backed up by a massive WAAAAAAGH!!

[TWF]

Regardless, Abaddon ain't much to Luke.

[A]

Do we even know what the circumstances were in that "GEoM got nearly killed by an Ork Warboss" event? For all we know, that Ork was probably backed up by a massive WAAAAAAGH!!
Chaos Gods > Gork n' Mork >> Any WAAAGH!!!'ed Warboss

Edit - Wait I'll create a specifc thread for the Chaos Gods vs the Emperor.
Better that than ruining this thread.

[Crimson Dragoon]

I seem to remember Gork n' Mork being stronger than the Chaos Gods. It was said that they laughed off the Ruinous Powers' assaults as their attacks bounced off.

[A]

I seem to remember Gork n' Mork being stronger than the Chaos Gods. It was said that they laughed off the Ruinous Powers' assaults as their attacks bounced off.
When did this happen, in the warp?

[Crimson Dragoon]

When did this happen, in the warp?

Yeah, that's where it happened.

[Endless Mike]

You know the Emperor can stop time and create warp storms hundred of light - years in diameter

[A]

Yeah, that's where it happened.
When* (novel) ?

[Enclave]

I'm curious. Would this God-Emperor have any defense against being force choked or does he not need to breath?

[Endless Mike]

I'm curious. Would this God-Emperor have any defense against being force choked or does he not need to breath?

He had his entire throat ripped out and regenerated it, IIRC.

[Endless Mike]

And your point is?

[TWF]

You know the Emperor can stop time and create warp storms hundred of light - years in diameter

And the Reborn Emperor can extend wormholes that rip apart the fabric of space and time with just his rage that move faster then light.

[Enclave]

He had his entire throat ripped out and regenerated it, IIRC.

That actually doesn't answer the question. That just shows he has regeneration. I'm asking if he needs air as any halfways competant force user can restrict air flow without causing any actual damage to the person. Now some characters with regeneration can heal from suffocation, however there are also some who's regeneration powers end as soon as they die so suffocation can kill them.

[strongarm85]

In the time it would take Luke to kill him that way he would already be dead.:(

[Sengoku]

um

why DID you pit the Emperor IF a simple ordinary space marine can take down a jedi warrior quite easily?

:|

[TWF]

um

why DID you pit the Emperor IF a simple ordinary space marine can take down a jedi warrior quite easily?

:|

No Space Marine can take out any mid-tier Jedi/Dark Jedi or Sith at all.

[Sengoku]

yes they can.

[TWF]

No they can not. What's stopping Luke from shattering them from existance from a thought? Or Anakin Skywalker force crushing their entire body?

[The Pink Ninja]

Space Marines are supposed to fight in Squads, not by themselves.

And those squads are in companies.

And those companies are in chapters...

They can deal with Jedi. They repeatedly fight worse things.

And Imperium forces have loads of things to deal with the effects of the warp and Warp-Magics. If we're crossing over the universes I say they should work against the Force too.

They are both basically magic.

[TWF]

Luke can solo the Space Wolves like their puppies. So can the Emperor perhaps evan easier because of his Force Storms.

Jacen Solo can manipulate and warp fabric of space to go back in time. Nihilus eats worlds with his words.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[The Pink Ninja]

Luke can solo the Space Wolves like their puppies. So can the Emperor perhaps evan easier because of his Force Storms.

Jacen Solo can manipulate and warp fabric of space to go back in time. Nihilus eats worlds with his words.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Are you?

My God, the way you think of the Imperium they should be dead by now.

You have to think story Space Marines, not the ones limited by game rules.

They've dealt with things that would shatter Luke's mind just to see them.

Nihlus may eat worlds but three guys up close took him down.

In case you forgot Space Marines can destroy worlds too: Exterminus. Sure it's weaponry, not perosnal power, but whatever gets the job done.

And Force Lightning? You don't think the Space Marines haven't fought people with powerful short ranged attacks before? It's basically a very good gun.

[TWF]

Luke, Nihilus, Revan, Sidious and the ancient Sith and Jedi Lords are high tiers in the WH40K verse. Luke can demolish Abaddon, who is the son of Horus, the strongest Primarch and blessed by the Four Chaos Gods.

He can resist the powers of black holes or manipulate them, he shattered an entire mountain fortress without trying to with a single thought to nothing. And his feats shit on the Space Marines or Chaos Marines.

You have to read the comics and novels from EU to understand how powerful these Jedi and Sith are.

[The Pink Ninja]

Luke, Nihilus, Revan, Sidious and the ancient Sith and Jedi Lords are high tiers in the WH40K verse. Luke can demolish Abaddon, who is the son of Horus, the strongest Primarch and blessed by the Four Chaos Gods.

He can resist the powers of black holes or manipulate them, he shattered an entire mountain fortress without trying to with a single thought to nothing.

And yet the Imperium persists. The last time I looked the EU comics one hundred years on from Luke had the Dark Jedi back in control and the Galexy in the state of techno Barbarianism.

So much for the New Republic.

[TWF]

Luke was long since dead. Whats your point? The Galactic Empire is larger then the Imperium of Man.

[Crimson Dragoon]

Are you?

My God, the way you think of the Imperium they should be dead by now.

You have to think story Space Marines, not the ones limited by game rules.

They've dealt with things that would shatter Luke's mind just to see them.

Nihlus may eat worlds but three guys up close took him down.

In case you forgot Space Marines can destroy worlds too: Exterminus. Sure it's weaponry, not perosnal power, but whatever gets the job done.

And Force Lightning? You don't think the Space Marines haven't fought people with powerful short ranged attacks before? It's basically a very good gun.

The Exile is a void in the Force which weakened Nihilus even further(he wasn't even close to full-power plus he was spending most of his energy trying to keep the Ravager intact) plus Space Marines tend to lose badly against those mind-shattering monsters. Unless you count Grey Knights as SMs.

[TWF]

Nihilius would devour the souls of Space Marines by his MERE PRESENCE!

[TWF]

TPN I understand compared to universes like Naruto, Bleach and One Piece but Star Wars is above them easily. High end Sith and Jedi eat planets, vaporize planet surfaces, bust continents, do have insane psychic powers among other things.

[Sengoku]

im just laughing at the fact that you think starwars can compete with warhammer 40k universe
LOL

[TWF]

im just laughing at the fact that you think starwars can compete with warhammer 40k universe
LOL

If your talking about pre-hersey GoE, C'tan, and Warp Gods and the Gods of the Orks, then of course not.

But it seems you don't know anything about Nilihus, GM Luke, EU Sidious or the ancient Jedi or Sith. Which I'm laughing in turn at.

[Sengoku]

oh i do.

dating back from tulak hord all the way to the latest.

sorry, but jedis are pansies compared to the terminators and space marines.

[The Pink Ninja]

...

So what?

Shit like that happens all the time in 40K, it's just uselly it's fleets with Virus bombs or Cyclone Torpedoes instead of some magic power. So what does it matter. If you're on that world you're still dead.

Meanwhile how many Force users are of that level? There are thousands of Imperial Capital ships that can commit Exterminus. And that's just the Imperium.

Sure these Jedi are mighty but the galexy is a big place and so is the Imperium. It hasn't lasted ten thousand years by rolling over whenever some super psyker freak showed up.

How long do you think it would take the Imperium to create a responce do you think? A few years? Nothing to the Imperium. Can these Jedi deal with the Officious Assassinorium? The Ordo Mallus? The horrors of psykers and the Warp?

Something doesn't have to be big to be dangerous. Rather that these Jedi are so powerful it just encourages more subtle methods.

[TWF]

Explain to me what a chapter of Space Marines can do when Luke instantly hurls them into a star?

Lol, Nilihus, Palpatine and Luke can rip apart fleets with their powers in the Force. The Galactic Empire is larger and more technologically advanced then the Imperium of Man.

One simply Star Destroyer- Imperator Class can Base Delta Zero a planet in a few hours.

An Eclipse Class Super Star Destroyers is over 17 miles long and has a planet cracker super turbo laser that can break apart the crust of a fortress world like it was a puppy.

[Enclave]

Nobody has answered me on if this God-Emperor needs to actually breath or not you know.

[Sengoku]

send an eversor assassin

GG SPOON TO DEATH'D:cry

[The Pink Ninja]

Explain to me what a chapter of Space Marines can do when Luke instantly hurls them into a star?

Lol, Nilihus, Palpatine and Luke can rip apart fleets with their powers in the Force. The Galactic Empire is larger and more technologically advanced then the Imperium of Man.

One simply Star Destroyer- Imperator Class can Base Delta Zero a planet in a few hours.

An Eclipse Class Super Star Destroyers is over 17 miles long and has a planet cracker super turbo laser that can break apart the crust of a fortress world like it was a puppy.

Oh, I know the Galatic Republic/Empire is more advanced technologically than the Imperium. They have better comms and transport and that alone would give them victory.

What I'm saying is the Imperium deals with guys like these Jedi everyday.

[TWF]

Galactic Empire's Sun Crusher > Terra's Solar System.

[TWF]

Oh, I know the Galatic Republic/Empire is more advanced technologically than the Imperium. They have better comms and transport and that alone would give them victory.

What I'm saying is the Imperium deals with guys like these Jedi everyday.

They deal with people who shit on the Alpha Class Psykers/Librarians every day of the week, Luke, Revan, Anakin, Jacen, Nilihus, Sidious, Anakin Solo, Kyp Durron would all be on the high end spectrum of the Primarchs.

Space Marines are shit to a Greater Daemon, which is nothing to Abaddon who any of the highest levels of Sith or Jedi would beat him.

[Sengoku]

Galactic Empire's Sun Crusher > Terra's Solar System.

star destroyers? lol not much of a star destroyer if a MERE single psyker can literally split it apart just by thinking about it. :laugh

couple that with thousands of psykers in the imperium... yeah.. no contest.

[Enclave]

star destroyers? lol not much of a star destroyer if a MERE single psyker can literally split it apart just by thinking about it. :laugh

couple that with thousands of psykers in the imperium... yeah.. no contest.

He said Sun Crusher not Star Destroyer. The Sun Crusher is bar none the most indestructible ship ever created in the Star Wars universe.

[TWF]

Sun Crusher busts solar systems and multiple stars and takes the punishment without any scratches. What the fuck would a Psyker's warp powers due to a solar system buster of multiple stars?

[Ulfgar]

star destroyers? lol not much of a star destroyer if a MERE single psyker can literally split it apart just by thinking about it. :laugh

couple that with thousands of psykers in the imperium... yeah.. no contest.

Sun Crusher. It makes sun go nova and destroy the system. don't get me started on the Galaxy gun or World devastors.

[Sengoku]

its a shame even star trek can beat starwars having the weapon that can easily create life and destroy life

even then, star trek isnt even on the same level as warhammer 40k.

sorry, but your argument fails here. no matter how strong the sun crusher is, it will always be look down upon.

[Crimson Dragoon]

its a shame even star trek can beat starwars having the weapon that can easily create life and destroy life

even then, star trek isnt even on the same level as warhammer 40k.

sorry, but your argument fails here. no matter how strong the sun crusher is, it will always be look down upon.

LOL wut? Star Trek beating Star Wars!? AHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Wars has an enormous speed advantage over Trek for starters, never mind firepower or industry. A single ISD can reduce a planet's surface to molten rubble in an hour.

This isn't CBR. The main ST factions have no chance against the Empire.

[Sengoku]

and star trek has weapons that can create worlds in matter of seconds :notrust

[Crimson Dragoon]

and star trek has weapons that can create worlds in matter of seconds :notrust

And Wars has the Sun Crusher. Hell it's not even needed. The Empire could just blitz the ST factions through their far superior hyperdrive and fuck up their most important worlds. Plus the Empire can produce vessels at a faster rate than any main ST power.

[Sengoku]

And Wars has the Sun Crusher. Hell it's not even needed. The Empire could just blitz the ST factions through their far superior hyperdrive and fuck up their most important worlds. Plus the Empire can produce vessels at a faster rate than any main ST power.

ill admit the star forge is a big factor. but st still wins, in my book.

anyway back to the topic of warhammer 40k

the problem with starwars is that warhammer navy's ships literally possess thousands of weapons onboard its ships.

[Enclave]

And Wars has the Sun Crusher. Hell it's not even needed. The Empire could just blitz the ST factions through their far superior hyperdrive and fuck up their most important worlds. Plus the Empire can produce vessels at a faster rate than any main ST power.

Trans-warp > Hyper-Drive

[Crimson Dragoon]

ill admit the star forge is a big factor. but st still wins, in my book.

anyway back to the topic of warhammer 40k

the problem with starwars is that warhammer navy's ships literally possess thousands of weapons onboard its ships.

also seeing how most of the time the rebels win against the empire even though having inferior weps, this is a big bonus for the warhammer 40k army :amuse

Explain how ST wins. Now. SW hyperdrive allows the Empire to move across the galaxy in a matter of hours or days. With warp drive, it takes the Feds decades to move across their own galaxy. Plus there's that firepower advantage.

BTW, only reason that the Rebels won is that the Emperor was arrogant and careless. When he died, the Empire fractured and descended into feudalism, with different warlords in control of their own sector.

[Sengoku]

i already said why star trek would win. the weapon that could produce life and destroy life in matter of seconds.. COUPLE that with superior long range capabilities.
deathstar's range of attack is ridiculously small compared to some of the ships the star trek posses.

anyway back to the warhammer vs starwars debate

in terms of elites, the warhammer 40k wins in this category.

sure you have your sith and jedis, but thats it. but compared that to imperium's space marines, terminators, psykers, the immortal 10,000 custodes, etc. basically the list goes on and on.

if we are talking about ships, sure the galactic empire may have the sun crusher and what not, but exactly how many do they have and can produce these killers? very little.

the IOM has more planet killing ships than the GE will ever have. thus, if they were to do battle against each other, IOM would probably lose in the beginning but then the GE would face harsher and harsher punishment from the ongoing production of more planet killing fleets.

[The Anti-Existence]

SW has firepower closer to Imperium ships but ST? It's not even close to either of them.

[TWF]

Terminators are shit to the high tiers in either WH40K or SW EU. Star Trek ships are completely inferior, technologically, weapons, transporation, communication, numbers and powers.

The only thing that the STverse has is the Q, and that's the only reason. Empire would ass-stomp every faction in Star Trek, Romulans, Federation, Dominion and the Klingons and the Borg.

ST factions are weak. Federation = 200 member worlds.

Empire = 2/3 million member worlds on a simple number basis of planets alone.

Anti, Star Trek firepower isn't in the hundreds or thousands of gigatons or megatons.

A single ISD can reduce a planet to glass in a few hours.

[Endless Mike]

If you're talking about the Genesis Device, that was a one - time thing, as in it was only built once, and the technology is lost. SW ships have superior ranges in combat, ST ships only engage from a few ship - lengths.

The Emperor destroys Luke, he's on a level of power above any Jedi or Sith ever seen.

[The Anti-Existence]

GASP!

The GEoM is stronger than..Marka Ragnos?!?!

It can't be!

[TWF]

If you're talking about the Genesis Device, that was a one - time thing, as in it was only built once, and the technology is lost. SW ships have superior ranges in combat, ST ships only engage from a few ship - lengths.

The Emperor destroys Luke, he's on a level of power above any Jedi or Sith ever seen.

Luke would have just as much chance as Horus did of beating the God-Emperor.

[Enclave]

Why will nobody tell me if this God-Emperor needs to breath or not?

[TWF]

In his corporeal form yes, otherwise he gets sent back to join the Warp as Starchild.

[TWF]

Trans-warp > Hyper-Drive

Lol no. Turblolasers covered more distance in ten light minutes then transwarp did.

Star Trek is a weak verse.

[Enclave]

So if his corporeal form dies would that constitute a win for Luke? Because it should be possible for Luke to pull that off, maybe not a 100% win for Luke but it does give him a fighting chance.

[TWF]

Provided the God-Emperor holds back a bit like he did against Chaos Horus, then it's slightly possible. Luke was able to talk to Zenoma Sakot, a sentient planet which percieves things that normal beings in the SWverse would consider above their mental constituion on a near equal basis.

The God-Emperor's psyhic attacks not so sure about. Luke beat an attempt at mindrape from several Joined Dark Jedi and the entire Brood Swarm of all the Killicks on their planet.

[Sengoku]

you still dont get it do you?

the emperior couldve killed horus in mere seconds if he wanted to.

read more of the fluff, i know some people in here are tired of repeating themselves

[TWF]

IoM Propaganda.

[Sengoku]

warhammer 40k universe shits on starwars.

[Crimson Dragoon]

you still dont get it do you?

the emperior couldve killed horus in mere seconds if he wanted to.

read more of the fluff, i know some people in here are tired of repeating themselves

Um, who are you talking to? TWF already said GEoM held back against Horus and admits the only chance Luke has is if the Emperor doesn't go bloodlusted, like he did against his beloved son.

[TWF]

Um, who are you talking to? TWF already said GEoM held back against Horus and admits the only chance Luke has is if the Emperor doesn't go bloodlusted, like he did against his beloved son.

Exactly. And no, WH40K does not shit on the SWverse, Sengoku.

[Sengoku]

do you even know what a "traitor" means to the imperium's eyes?
PLUS not being his son, i really doubt the emperor isnt going to sit there and take hits from a traitor such as luke.

the emperor would immediately disable his ass and make him disappear.

[Sengoku]

Exactly. And no, WH40K does not shit on the SWverse, Sengoku.

no? chaos and c'tan gods beg to differ

[TWF]

So? The Living Force begs to differ.

[Sengoku]

If your talking about pre-hersey GoE, C'tan, and Warp Gods and the Gods of the Orks, then of course not.

hmm riiiight.

[TWF]

Even Luke is nothing to the Living Force itself, which was why I specifically left out the Living Force.

[Cy]

Luke was long since dead. Whats your point? The Galactic Empire is larger then the Imperium of Man.

Not really. The IoM is nearly an entire galaxy. Galaxies are tens of billions of stars. If the IoM even has 1% of those, thats over a million stars, and some of those have more then one habited planet. The Imperium outnumbers them.

And as for the Suncrusher, there was only one in existence and it was sent inside a black hole. Also, the knowledge for the tech has been lost, and the IoM doesn't even blink at the loss of a starsystem, unlike the GE.

Also, IoM ships are protected against the warp in addition to their shields. If we go warp==force, then the Jedi can't blow them up with the force like they did against the Rebels or whatever.

As for Marines vs Jedi... A basic marine has better speed, reflexes, strength, etc. then just about any jedi, but the jedi have their force powers which pretty much even it up... I'd say the average marine is more along the lines of a mid-tier jedi, with Librarians equal to low high-tier or higher depending on which. I mean, Librarians are more then powerful enough to enslave entire planets, they can stop time, have instant pre-cog, and can do most of the feats that were described for high-tier force users. (assume alpha level librarians) Maybe they can't blow up entire fleets and move black holes with their minds, but this is the nitty gritty there is no good only worse type of universe compared to the good guys always win through some sort of thing type high fantasy kind of universe. Those kinds of psychic powers would make the game pretty much useless.

[^AERIES^]

But the power of a star is millions of times greater than a planet, thousand don't quite cut it.

People arent planets or stars, 1000 times the strength to lift 200 lbs= The ability to lift 200000 lbs now if this person entered the strongest man in the world competition i think 1000-fold cuts it. Same for luke, if his power is per say on a level of 500/600 and the emp.'s is 499/600. Multiply each fraction by 1000. though its still not a big difference its enough

[TWF]

Not really. The IoM is nearly an entire galaxy. Galaxies are tens of billions of stars. If the IoM even has 1% of those, thats over a million stars, and some of those have more then one habited planet. The Imperium outnumbers them.

And as for the Suncrusher, there was only one in existence and it was sent inside a black hole. Also, the knowledge for the tech has been lost, and the IoM doesn't even blink at the loss of a starsystem, unlike the GE.

Also, IoM ships are protected against the warp in addition to their shields. If we go warp==force, then the Jedi can't blow them up with the force like they did against the Rebels or whatever.

As for Marines vs Jedi... A basic marine has better speed, reflexes, strength, etc. then just about any jedi, but the jedi have their force powers which pretty much even it up... I'd say the average marine is more along the lines of a mid-tier jedi, with Librarians equal to low high-tier or higher depending on which. I mean, Librarians are more then powerful enough to enslave entire planets, they can stop time, have instant pre-cog, and can do most of the feats that were described for high-tier force users. (assume alpha level librarians) Maybe they can't blow up entire fleets and move black holes with their minds, but this is the nitty gritty there is no good only worse type of universe compared to the good guys always win through some sort of thing type high fantasy kind of universe. Those kinds of psychic powers would make the game pretty much useless.

The IoM does not consist of the whole galaxy, the Sabbat Crusade disagrees. Secondly the Galactic Empire was the entire known galaxy in SWverse barring the unknown region which is insigifnigant to owning countless solar system and millions upon millions of worlds.

And hypothetical matches between Imperium of Man and the Galactic Empire would give it to the Empire, Sun Crusher residing in a black hole or not, the IoM has nothing to deal with it.

[Wesker]

Dude The emperor of man could take that thing out with a little help iom has too many high tier players. Empire loses.

[Enclave]

Dude The emperor of man could take that thing out with a little help iom has too many high tier players. Empire loses.

How could he take out the Sun Crusher? It was mentioned in this very thread that his strongest attack he has used had the power of a super nova. The Sun Crusher was specifically designed to take Super Nova's without damage.

[Wesley]

It wasn't a supernova and it wasn't the entirety of one either. The Sun Crusher would be easy to stop. It's small, it's underpowered, and even if conventional weapons won't breach the armor, non-lethal means are well within the realm of securing it.

It's a novelity weapon with no practical uses.

[Enclave]

Everybody who went up against the Sun Crusher lost. It clearly isn't nearly as under powered as you claim it to be.

[Darklyre]

Can't deal with the Sun Crusher?

In the words of the Orks: TELLYPORTAS!

Unlike regular teleportation like you'd see in most sci-fi, WH40K teleportation doesn't simply dissolve matter and reconstitute it elsewhere. Instead, it literally forces a tunnel in the Warp and shoves the target through. It'd be like using the Force to teleport in, and last I heard the Sun Crusher wasn't invulnerable to Force manipulation.

[Wesley]

Everybody who went up against the Sun Crusher lost. It clearly isn't nearly as under powered as you claim it to be.

Because they were incompetent. Horribly, horribly, incompetent.

[Sengoku]

deep strike with terminators hellbent on killing the traitors? :cry:nod

[Darklyre]

Hell no. Steal an Ork Shokk gun and use it on them. What's a Shokk gun, you ask? Allow me to explain:

Take one giant shoota with a tellyporta stuck on it. Stick a grot (snotling or gretchin) into the barrel. Aim in the general direction of the target, and fire. The grot gets shot out, and promptly enters a warp tunnel. The exit of the tunnel is in the vicinity of the target, or even inside the target itself. This gun could make Space Marines explode. Even if it DOESN'T land directly inside something vital, the grot is completely insane from unprotected Warp exposure, and is basically a berserk ball of fury.

[TWF]

No one is teleporting into a Sun Crusher. There's a difference from the God-Emperor making supernovas and the Sun Crusher making multiples ones. Other then teleporting it to a different location, the IoM has nothing that can do shit to it.

Not too mention the Galaxy Gun, World Devestators, Star Forge, Death Stars that would rape stomp IoM's military.

[Darklyre]

Um, why CAN'T you teleport onto the Sun Crusher? Last I checked, the Sun Crusher didn't have Force protection or special shielding (Void shields can stop teleports, but they're partially Warp-infused).

[TWF]

Last I checked Void Shields don't stop something from dying when busting a solar system.

[Wesley]

Last I checked Void Shields don't stop something from dying when busting a solar system.

They probably could.

[TWF]

They probably could.


As usual from your posts, your pulling this out of your ass. The Sun Crusher sat in a nebula, blew up a couple stars, took out the Carida system and just sat there.

And considering the fact that it's armor that stops all those lethal energies and radiation as well as cosmic radiation and what not would avoid teleporting too. Simple as that.

The key to its near invincibility was layered molecular armor, a material so strong that it could resist even turbolaser shots. Han Solo once was able to ram the Sun Crusher straight through the bridge of the Imperial-class Star Destroyer Hydra without taking any significant damage. The Sun Crusher was also equipped with a hyperdrive and was designed to slip unnoticed into a system, fire its weaponry, and then escape before its presence was detected.

The Sun Crusher's primary weapon was a payload of 11 energy resonance torpedoes. Each torpedo resembled an oval-shaped plasma discharge and was activated when it passed through the Sun Crusher's resonance torpedo launcher. The resonance torpedo then traveled to the system's sun at near-lightspeed velocity.


The Sun Crusher rips through the Star Destroyer Hydra's command tower. Upon it's impact, the torpedo burrowed into the star's core, releasing dense packets of energy that rendered the star's core unstable, initiating a chain-reaction supernova that forced even low-mass stars to go supernova. The star would be ripped apart in the explosion, sending waves of energy and radiation out across the system that destroyed every planet and all life in its path. The Sun Crusher could obliterate an entire system in mere hours. Once launched into the star, it was impossible to stop the impending supernova

[Darklyre]

You do realize that no armor is able to resist a Warp teleport, right? This isn't like Star Trek where they beam someone down. This is literally going through another dimension and opening up a hole at the target location. Unless there's some kind of shield or equipment to block dimensional travel, that teleport goes through.

[TWF]

lol wut? since when did the God Emperor track and fight something that moves a couple thousand kms a second?