Gandalf (LOTR) Vs Ganon (Zelda)

[gtw1983]

Gandalfs objective is to storm Ganons castle,penetrate his defenses,defeat his minions and kill Ganon himself.

either form of gandalf may be used since both Ganon and Gandalf are powerful magic users.

[PureSappin]

*gandolf tries to sneak in "damn im too old and the only move i can do is talk to butterflies" *ganon looks at the old man* "wtf?"

*ganon stabs old man gandolf in the back*
game over

ezz ownage

[TWF]

Ganondorf with the Triforce is fucking Omnipotent....

[Tsukasa009]

Ganon wins... he has triforce! triforce!!

[Art of Run]

Triforce. never good.

[Enclave]

Ganon only has 1 piece of the tri-force and is nowhere near omnipotent.

Anyways, are we talking the Istari Gandalf here or full use of his powers as a Maiar Olorin? Because Gandalf could possibly win while Olorin would probably kick Ganon's ass.

[maximilyan]

cant see gandorf losing

[Taleran]

Gandalf


easily, anyone who says otherwise is going on the popular perception of Gandalf and not how powerful he really is

[Enclave]

Gandalf


easily, anyone who says otherwise is going on the popular perception of Gandalf and not how powerful he really is

You need to remember that most people don't realise that Gandalf isn't human but actually an honest to goodness God. He is a Maiar, they are among the beings that sang the world into existence and Gandalf just happens to be one of the stronger Maiar out there, at least when he isn't being restricted in his power use by the Valar thanks to his role as one of the Istari.

[Wesker]

Gandalf if he is in maiar form. I am not sure who would win if he was in his restricted form.

[Enclave]

Gandalf if he is in maiar form. I am not sure who would win if he was in his restricted form.

It's not really a restricted form exactly. He still looks the same as I recall. He is just restricted in what he is allowed to do since he is an Istari.

[Coaxmetal]

You need to remember that most people don't realise that Gandalf isn't human but actually an honest to goodness God. He is a Maiar, they are among the beings that sang the world into existence and Gandalf just happens to be one of the stronger Maiar out there, at least when he isn't being restricted in his power use by the Valar thanks to his role as one of the Istari.

I read the books and the Slimilirian (can't spell that), and I have to say that Ganon would still win since he is weilding one third of the greatest power in the Zelda universe.

I mean a Balrog was defeated by an elf (a very strong one but still an elf) in the first age, and a Balrog is on the same level as an Istari.

[Enclave]

I read the books and the Slimilirian (can't spell that), and I have to say that Ganon would still win since he is weilding one third of the greatest power in the Zelda universe.

I mean a Balrog was defeated by an elf (a very strong one but still an elf) in the first age, and a Balrog is on the same level as an Istari.

I don't think you realise just how powerful some of the Elves were in the 1st age. One elf cut off Morgoth's foot if you recall. Elves in the 1st age were badass.

[Wesker]

^ ya that elf would have owned link.

[EdwardElric]

Maia > 1st Age Elves > Link > Ganon. Gandalf wins.

[Coaxmetal]

I don't think you realise just how powerful some of the Elves were in the 1st age. One elf cut off Morgoth's foot if you recall. Elves in the 1st age were badass.

Yes they were very badass. But I still go with Ganon. One cutscene from Twilight Princess is brought to mind when I think of his badass abilities.

[Shuntensatsu]

Gandalf shines light in Ganon's face.

Ganon takes the staff away from Gandalf and shoves it up his ass.

[Enclave]

Gandalf shines light in Ganon's face.

Ganon takes the staff away from Gandalf and shoves it up his ass.

More like Gandalf stabs Ganon in the face with Glamdring at inhuman speed, speaks a word of power at which point the sword is engulfed in a holy flame and Ganon is dead.

You need to remember that what you saw in the movies ISN'T canon. The Istari don't actually need their staffs, the power comes from them not the staff. You take away Gandalfs staff and you are just going to annoy him.

[Taleran]

the better match would be Ganon and Belgarath

[omg laser pew pew!]

More like Gandalf stabs Ganon in the face with Glamdring at inhuman speed, speaks a word of power at which point the sword is engulfed in a holy flame and Ganon is dead.

You need to remember that what you saw in the movies ISN'T canon. The Istari don't actually need their staffs, the power comes from them not the staff. You take away Gandalfs staff and you are just going to annoy him.

Just a small point but in their old men form, their power was in the staves (note how Sarumon was useless without his). However their power in their old men form was only a small proportion of their true maiar form.

[Enclave]

Just a small point but in their old men form, their power was in the staves (note how Sarumon was useless without his). However their power in their old men form was only a small proportion of their true maiar form.

I don't recall ever reading that anywhere in the Silmarillion. Saruman was useless not because Gandalf took his staff but because Gandalf basically broke him with the Valar's permission.

[omg laser pew pew!]

What do you mean Simarillion? Sarumon's staff was broken in the Two Towers. He became useless because Gandalf destroyed his staff

[The Faint Smile]

So Gandalf is actually a God? Well aint that some shit...

Guess what: Ganon is a god too. I'm going with him just on pure bias but gandalf probably has better feats in all those books I've never read.

[Enclave]

Breaking the staff was symbolic. Saruman became worthless because the Valar decided that Gandalf was going to make Saruman impotent due to the fact that he strayed from the path he was assigned.

Also nothing suggested that their power was restricted by their forms that I can remember from the Silmarillion.

So Gandalf is actually a God? Well aint that some shit...

Essentially yes, a lesser god though. He was a Maiar and the Maiar are Ainur the same as the Valar.

[The Faint Smile]

Essentially yes, a lesser god though. He was a Maiar and the Maiar are Ainur the same as the Valar.

Haha you might as well be speaking a different language. thanks though:)

[Superrazien]

It said by the end of ROTK ( the book) Gandalf is possibly powerful enough to take on Saron alone. Saron>>>>>>>>>>>>>..Ganon

[Enclave]

It said by the end of ROTK ( the book) Gandalf is possibly powerful enough to take on Saron alone. Saron>>>>>>>>>>>>>..Ganon

Naw, Gandalf wasn't THAT powerful. However he was pretty much the most powerful being in Middle Earth next to Sauron though.

[omg laser pew pew!]

Breaking the staff was symbolic. Saruman became worthless because the Valar decided that Gandalf was going to make Saruman impotent due to the fact that he strayed from the path he was assigned.

Where'd you get that from? There's a reason why Sarumon refused to him his staff when Gandalf first asked for it

Also nothing suggested that their power was restricted by their forms that I can remember from the Silmarillion.

I remember reading that they came to Middle Earth to help bring the people against the Dark Lord instead of always relying on the West. They weren't allowed to oppose Sauron with power.

[Enclave]

That's right, they weren't allowed to oppose him with their power. They still had access to their power though.

Anyways, I would have to re-read but I'm certain the staff was more symbolic than anything.

[strongarm85]

What do you mean Simarillion? Sarumon's staff was broken in the Two Towers. He became useless because Gandalf destroyed his staff

Its an unfinished series of stories summerized together in one very long story written by J.R.R. Tolkien that was compiled by his son and published after Tokien's death. Most of the stories Tolkien would tell his children when they where younger. The stories span from the creation story of Middle Earth, going all the way forward over the course of an unknown number of years. The timespan between the 1st age (which happens many thousands of years after the creation) and the end of the 4th age (Lord of the Ring) is about 20,000 years and comprises most of the book.

There is a lot of information in the Simarillion, and the reading if quite complex. I would say that the experience of reading the Similarillion is somewhat similar to reading a mythology text book. There are few direct qoutes, just lots and lots of information. As I said earlier, the Similarillion is an incomplete book.

[Pintsize]

From what I understood, it was that they were only allowed to channel their power through the staves; not that their power was in the staff, or that they didn't have any powers of their own.

Either way, I'm leaning more towards Gai here in that the staff was very important to the wizard.

[Elijah Snow]

It's scary that Simarillion is incomplete considering there was so much information in that novel alone.

Gandalf wins this with ease. Read the books kids!

[Pintsize]

We need more LOTR matches; who do you think I could pit Feanor against? Or Fingolfin?

What about Hurin? :P

[omg laser pew pew!]

That's right, they weren't allowed to oppose him with their power. They still had access to their power though.

My point is that as a wizard, their power was greatly limited. Maiar Gandalf could have soloed Mordor most likely

[Estrecca]

My point is that as a wizard, their power was greatly limited. Maiar Gandalf could have soloed Mordor most likely

Actually, the five Maiar sent to Middle Earth are considered "peers of Sauron", probably meaning his equals or near equals in power, before being reduced to human(oid) form, because the Valar didn't want this becoming again a contest of power vs power (that they could win with little effort) and the Istari were meant to become advisors for the races of Middle Earth.

[PureSappin]

ok but have u ever seen gandolf do a cool move or attack move beside sword? liek shoot a fire ball or something, i have not all he can do from what i seen is make a shield which tires him and push you with staff and use his gay sword so he is pwnt

[Pintsize]

Actually, the five Maiar sent to Middle Earth are considered "peers of Sauron", probably meaning his equals or near equals in power,

No they weren't, at all. Maybe when Sauron was still just a Maiar, maybe, but Sauron got some extra power from Morgoth himself.

Olorin, in any incarnation, would have been schooled if Sauron had his ring.

[Estrecca]

ok but have u ever seen gandolf do a cool move or attack move beside sword? liek shoot a fire ball or something, i have not all he can do from what i seen is make a shield which tires him and use his gay sword so he is pwnt

In the movies he summons a clear bubble force field when the balrog uses his flame whip against him and we see the same thing again in the ROTK Special Edition, when Saruman throws a fireball from his staff at Gandalf, who just takes it without flinching. There is also the bit with calling down the lightning bolt that empowered his sword enough to finally kill the Balrog.

In the books, he doesn't do a lot of magic, because Sauron can detect magic usage, but in the Hobbit he is shown to do a little more:

‘But not Gandalf. Bilbo’s yell had done that much good. It had wakened him up wide in a splintered second, and when the goblins came to grab him, there was a terrific flash like lightning in the cave, a smell like gunpowder, and several of them fell dead.’

Gandalf using some kind of really quick attack spell when his group was ambushed by goblins.

‘He gathered the huge pine-cones from the branches of the tree. Then he set one alight with bright blue fire, and threw it whizzing down among the circle of the wolves. It struck one on the back, and immediately his shaggy coat caught fire, and he was leaping to and fro yelping horribly. Then another came and another, one in blue flames, one in red, another in green. They burst on the ground in the middle of the circle and went off in coloured sparks and smoke. A specially large one hit the chief wolf on the nose, and he leaped in the air ten feet, and then rushed round and round the circle biting and snapping even at the other wolves in his anger and fright.

The dwarves and Bilbo shouted and cheered. The rage of the wolves was terrible to see, and the commotion they made filled all the forest. Wolves are afraid of fire at all times, but this was a most horrible and uncanny fire. If a spark got in their coats it stuck and burned into them, and unless they rolled over quick they were soon all in flames.

Napalm-like effects with pinecones.

‘Then Gandalf climbed to the top of his tree. The sudden splendour flashed from his wand like lightning, as he got ready to spring down from on high right among the spears of the goblins. That would have been the end of him, though he would probably have killed many of them as he came hurtling down like a thunderbolt.’

Endgame attack. Not particularly impressive, all things considered, but this was in his weaker form as Gandalf the Grey.

‘“Name him not!” said Gandalf, and for a moment it seemed that a cloud of pain passed over his face, and he sat silent, looking old as death. “Long time I fell,” he said at last, slowly, as if thinking back with great difficulty. “Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned. Then we plunged into the deep water and all was dark. Cold it was as the tide of death: almost it froze my heart.”

“Deep is the abyss that is spanned by Durin's Bridge, and none has measured it,” said Gimli.

“Yet it has a bottom, beyond light and knowledge,” said Gandalf. “Thither I came at last, to the uttermost foundations of stone. He was with me still. His fire quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake.”

“We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin's folk, Gimli son of Gloin. Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-Dûm: too well he knew them all. Ever up we went now, until we came to the Endless Stair.”

“Long has that been lost,” said Gimli. “Many have said that it was never made save in legend, but others say that it was destroyed.”

“It was made, and it had not been destroyed,” said Gandalf. “From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak it climbed, ascending in unbroken spiral in many thousand steps, until it issued at last in Durin's Tower carved in the living rock of Zirakzigil, the pinnacle of the Silvertine.”

“There upon Celebdil was a lonely window in the snow, and before it lay a narrow space, a dizzy eyrie above the mists of the world. There sun shone fiercely there, but all below was wrapped in cloud. Out he sprang, and even as I came behind, he burst into new flame. There was none to see, or perhaps in after ages songs would still be sung of the Battle of the Peak.”

Suddenly Gandalf laughed. “But what would they say in song? Those that looked up from afar thought that the mountain was crowned with storm. Thunder they heard, and lightning, they said, smote upon Celebdil, and leaped back broken into tongues of fire. Is that not enough? A great smoke rose about us, vapour and steam. Ice fell like rain. I threw down my enemy, and he fell from the high place and broke the mountain-side where he smote it in his ruin….”’

The fight against the Balrog. Superhuman durability (survives this fall from the Brigde of Khazad-dum, survives the heat of the balrog that vaporizes the snow around them atop the Celebdil), superhuman stamina (the battle lasts for nearly a full week) and the fight apparently caused the creation of a very large thunderstorm.

“Did I not say that I wished to speak to you?” said the old man. “Put away that bow, Master Elf!”

The bow and arrow fell from Legolas’ hands, and his arms hung loose at his sides.’

Mind control or something similar used against Legolas.

‘The old man was too quick for him. He sprang to his feet and leaped to the top of a large rock. There he stood, grown suddenly tall, towering above them. His hood and grey rags were flung away. His white garments shone. He lifted up his staff, and Gimli’s axe leaped from his grasp and fell ringing on the ground. The sword of Aragorn, stiff in his motionless hand, blazed with a sudden fire. Legolas gave a great shout and shot an arrow high into the air: it vanished in a flash of flame.’

Gandalf pwns Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas with contemptous ease in close quarters.

'And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep. He knew that it had become aware of his gaze. A fierce eager will was there. It leaped towards him: almost like a finger he felt it, searching for him. Very soon it would nail him down, know just exactly where he was. Amon Lhaw it touched. It glanced upon Tol Brandir - he threw himself off the seat, crouching, covering his head with his grey hood.

He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!

The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their two piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger.'

Gandalf uses some kind of long-range telepathic projection to protect Frodo from Sauron's gaze.

[Estrecca]

No they weren't, at all. Maybe when Sauron was still just a Maiar, maybe, but Sauron got some extra power from Morgoth himself.

Sauron never was anything but a Maia. One of the strongest (although probably matched by Uinen, Osse and Eonwe, at least), but only a Maia. Also, Morgoth never gave Sauron a power-up, period. He was greedy of his power and while he wasted a lot of his own personal power (to the point of being actually weaker than Sauron towards the end of his reign under Thangorodrim), there is nothing about increasing the might of his underlings. Morgoth hated everyone and everything, even his own slaves.

[PureSappin]

In the movies he summons a clear bubble force field when the balrog uses his flame whip against him and we see the same thing again in the ROTK Special Edition, when Saruman throws a fireball from his staff at Gandalf, who just takes it without flinching. There is also the bit with calling down the lightning bolt that empowered his sword enough to finally kill the Balrog.

In the books, he doesn't do a lot of magic, because Sauron can detect magic usage, but in the Hobbit he is shown to do a little more:



Gandalf using some kind of really quick attack spell when his group was ambushed by goblins.



Napalm-like effects with pinecones.



Endgame attack. Not particularly impressive, all things considered, but this was in his weaker form as Gandalf the Grey.



The fight against the Balrog. Superhuman durability (survives this fall from the Brigde of Khazad-dum, survives the heat of the balrog that vaporizes the snow around them atop the Celebdil), superhuman stamina (the battle lasts for nearly a full week) and the fight apparently caused the creation of a very large thunderstorm.



Mind control or something similar used against Legolas.



Gandalf pwns Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas with contemptous ease in close quarters.



Gandalf uses some kind of long-range telepathic projection to protect Frodo from Sauron's gaze.

hmm well then gandolf>ganon dint read all of that book

[Pintsize]

Sauron never was anything but a Maia. One of the strongest (although probably matched by Uinen, Osse and Eonwe, at least), but only a Maia. Also, Morgoth never gave Sauron a power-up, period. He was greedy of his power and while he wasted a lot of his own personal power (to the point of being actually weaker than Sauron towards the end of his reign under Thangorodrim), there is nothing about increasing the might of his underlings. Morgoth hated everyone and everything, even his own slaves.

Actually, I'm fairly certain the reason Morgoth was so weak at the end is because he kept giving his power away to his subordinates so he could better control them.

In the beginning, he was a match to all the other Valar by himself.

[PureSappin]

is this book the hobbit?

[strongarm85]

Its a combination of about 5 books.

The Hobbit show cases his abilities the best and is the shortest and easiest to read if your interested in that. Then theres the Lord of the Rings, and lastly more information is pulled from the Similarion which is incomplete and also the most difficult to read. Its like reading a college level mythology text book.

[PureSappin]

hmm i see why did they nit put more of gandolfs powers in the movies?

[Art of Run]

'Cause it's a movie of a BOOK. They never display powers in the film versions of a book.

[PureSappin]

gay.. thats stupid

[strongarm85]

Because as great as CGI has developed at this point, and as great a job as Peter Jackson neither are great enough to show all of Gandalf's power to the point that they actually make them look good.

[omg laser pew pew!]

I remember reading that they came to Middle Earth to help bring the people against the Dark Lord instead of always relying on the West. They weren't allowed to oppose Sauron with power.

Actually, the five Maiar sent to Middle Earth are considered "peers of Sauron", probably meaning his equals or near equals in power, before being reduced to human(oid) form, because the Valar didn't want this becoming again a contest of power vs power (that they could win with little effort) and the Istari were meant to become advisors for the races of Middle Earth.

Yeah........read the WHOLE thread next time