View Full Version : Shaman X-Man runs the Gauntlet.
Nate decides to let lose his powers, and find out the scope of his abilities.
After successfully mind linking himself across the multiverse with his alternate selfs. He gains knowledge, and experience of Stryfe and Cable.
He decides to take the challenge, and proceeds to enter the gauntlet.
http://xman.comicbooks.net/images/intro5.gif
Rules
Match Takes Place on an indestructible Earth.
Death, KO, and BFR are acceptable wins.
Anything Goes.
After every match, Nate is allowed to rest and fully recover.
In Character rule is in effect.
Contenders
Vegito (manga only - DBZ)
Superman (current - DC)
Shion of Aries (manga - Saint Seiya)
Sinestro (Current - DC comics)
Beta Ray Bill (Marvel Comics)
Spawn (King of Hell - Image comics)
Black Adam (WW3 - DC Comics)
Annihilation Surfer (Marvel Comics)
Elijah Snow
08-25-2007, 10:38 PM
He would make it all the way to Annihilation Surfer. Unless King of Hell Spawn is omnipotent...
He would make it all the way to Annihilation Surfer. Unless King of Hell Spawn is omnipotent...
But how or why?
What abilities or powers warrants Nates progression all the way to the Silver Surfer?
Black Alice enters the battle randomly and kicks Shaman's ass down to Kingdom Come.
Grandmaster Kane
08-25-2007, 11:06 PM
Vegito (manga only - DBZ) - Shaman Mind fucks him them erases him
Superman (current - DC) - Repeat as above
Shion of Aries (manga - Saint Seiya) - Im not a ss buff so ill leave this one alone
Sinestro (Current - DC comics) - 50/50
Beta Ray Bill (Marvel Comics) - Over powers with pyschic power
Spawn (King of Hell - Image comics) - *shakes head* Should have been last fight
Black Adam (WW3 - DC Comics) - Adam speed blitz
Annihilation Surfer (Marvel Comics) - 70/30 in favor of surfer
Black Alice enters the battle randomly and kicks Shaman's ass down to Kingdom Come.
:notrust :notrust :notrust :notrust
:notrust :notrust :notrust :notrust
Hey, don't blame me for bringing one of the most cheap characters eva in the battle.
Hey, don't blame me for bringing one of the most cheap characters eva in the battle.
ATM I can really abuse Nates powers, and land a double back hand pimp smack on Black Alice. But I am a pacifist.
So I will just point out 2 things.
1) Black Alice has nothing to do with this match.
2) You gave no real reason as to why she would win. She needs to draw mystical powers from someone. You simply inserted her, helplessly.
@Gecko4lif - You get reps, for giving me some feed back on this match.
ATM I can really abuse Nates powers, and land a double back hand pimp smack on Black Alice. But I am a pacifist.
So I will just point out 2 things.
1) Black Alice has nothing to do with this match.
2) You gave no real reason as to why she would win. She needs to draw mystical powers from someone. You simply inserted her, helplessly.
@Gecko4lif - You get reps, for giving me some feed back on this match.
X-Man will stomp everyone on this list except maybe Surfer.
Contenders
Vegito (manga only - DBZ)
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Vegito won't last long. I mean even if Vegito has some physic resistance, its still not enough to beat X-man. This fight really won't last very long. Shaman casually kills Vegito.
Superman (current - DC)
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Current Superman against X-Man? This is serious rape, perhaps even moreso then Vegito, Post Crisis Superman will just die horribly. Maybe his best chance of survival would be to run away... far far away with his light speed flight.
Shion of Aries (manga - Saint Seiya)
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Have no clue, but unless this person has physic resistance, there is nothing that can be done, this person will be raped. But I don't know enough so I'll have to pass.
Sinestro (Current - DC comics)
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Sinestro could win, however X-man would kill him before he could do anything worthy. I'd say Sinestro would win if X-Man didn't get to rest after every match since finding Superman would be a pain. ;)
Beta Ray Bill (Marvel Comics)
------------------
Even though this guy is insanely strong, I really don't see what he could do against a mind rape. In a purely physically fight, X-Man would be raped in one of the more raping rapes eva
Spawn (King of Hell - Image comics)
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Tie at best. I believe Spawn has physic resistance.
Black Adam (WW3 - DC Comics)
--------------------
Dunno
Annihilation Surfer (Marvel Comics)
-----------------------
Speedblitz?
Grandmaster Kane
08-25-2007, 11:35 PM
SPawns king of hell powers are far above A. Surfer
SPawns king of hell powers are far above A. Surfer
I know, thats why I said all that X-man could do is manage a tie. He isn't killing or knocking out spawn
X-Man will stomp everyone on this list except maybe Surfer.
Why?
Vegito (manga only - DBZ) Well rounded, fast melle combat, with Goku, Vegitas and some extra abilities. Despite being turned into candy, he retained his ability to think.
Superman (current - DC) Aside from the common knowledge (super everything), he has his own means to apply physchic abilities.
Shion of Aries (manga - Saint Seiya) Light Speed movements, within the 12 gold Saints, he is among the most powerful TP/TK characters. His Gold armor repels TK attacks.
Sinestro (Current - DC comics) GL ring grants them near light speed movments. It also grants tp sheilding and auto shields. Possibly the most diverse character on the list. Ring feeds data on the go.
Beta Ray Bill (Marvel Comics) cant remember, all his shit.
Spawn (King of Hell - Image comics) World Level telepathy. Matter Transmutation, matter manipulation, mystic powers, regen that rivals Lobo or Deadpool. Just plain ruthless.
Black Adam (WW3 - DC Comics)
Strength, speed, durability. He nearly matches Superman.
Annihilation Surfer (Marvel Comics) - High resistance to TP shielding
Super class in just about all physical traits. Power of cosmic. Cosmic Awareness.
I mean, individually each one should be able to hold his own.
SPawns king of hell powers are far above A. Surfer
What did King of hell Spawn do that warrants his classification above Surfers?
Grandmaster Kane
08-25-2007, 11:44 PM
He told off god and didnt get smited lol
And beta ray bill can be considered thor for all intensive purposes
He told off god and didnt get smited lol
And beta ray bill can be considered thor for all intensive purposes
True, that was during his king of hell days. But later on we find out that, it was not God. Just some high class Angel impersonating God in his absences.
Grandmaster Kane
08-26-2007, 12:05 AM
Still pretty cosmic thou
Still pretty cosmic thou
Talking smack to a high ranking angel?
Spawn isnt the first or last to do so. And it does not really merits big power.
Spy_Smasher
08-27-2007, 01:24 AM
BRB was > Thor even before Bill got his hammer. The problem most of these guys have with Shaman X-man is the telepathy, not the TK. I just don't remember if Bill has ever fought a high-level psychic before.
Rice Ball
08-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Vegito (manga only - DBZ)
Only limited defence against Psychic attacks will not cut it. Vegeta/Goku loses there minds.
Superman (current - DC)
Doesn't Superman have that defence against psychics? Didn't it take Max Lord years to break that barrier.
Shion of Aries (manga - Saint Seiya)
I think Shion would total him, either by warping him into space or attacking with Stardust Revolution.
Sinestro (Current - DC comics)
Tough one, Sinestro is powerful but i feel Xman could take him.
Beta Ray Bill (Marvel Comics)
too much brawn, no defence against Psychics
Spawn (King of Hell - Image comics)
King of Hell spawn could take him with relative ease. Looking in spawns head would do him more damage than good.
Black Adam (WW3 - DC Comics)
A bit like Sinestro, fight could go either way but leaning towards Xman
Annihilation Surfer (Marvel Comics)
Battle would go like Cable v Surfer, Xman would burn himself out before taking down surfer.
Power16
08-27-2007, 04:39 PM
^ Seconded
DarkLordDragon
08-27-2007, 05:53 PM
I really would love to know about this new Surfer, The Annihilation Surfer ? any idea of his powers? story time-line...
As for this battle I need some time but I am sure he is not going to pass Aries Shion easily.
Spy_Smasher
08-27-2007, 08:01 PM
^ Annihilation Surfer is just Surfer with a power boost as featured in the recent Annihilation crossover. It should be considered "current Surfer" now.
Rapidshare of the X-over. (http://rapidshare.com/files/18005010/AH-Annihilation.rar)
Rapishare of his stand alone issues. (http://rapidshare.com/files/17983953/AH-SilverSurfer.rar)
Thanks to these guys (http://www.freecomicbooks.org/).
Comic Book Guy
08-27-2007, 08:02 PM
Vegito, no defense against telepathy.
Doesn't Superman have that defence against psychics? Didn't it take Max Lord years to break that barrier.[/quote
Yes, Torquasm-Vo. However, Manchester Black was able to do quite a number on him -- mass illusions, and nearly gave him an aneurysm by pinching the blood vessels in his brain via telekinesis.
Against Sinestro, can't say.
Beta Ray Bill, perhaps a telepathic assault. But I can't say much, since I don't follow him.
Isn't KOH Spawn one of the most powerful incarnations of Spawn? The only effective offense from X-Man here is telepathy. If Spawn can defend himself against that, Nate's screwed.
Black Adam would win if he speedblitzes off the bat. If not, I'd lean towards X-Man. I can't remember whether Shazam-powered individuals are resilient to telepathy or not. . .
Surfer, Mad Titan is be right. Sure, X-Man is comparable to the Dark Phoenix in power, but he'd burn himself out if the fight was long and drawn out. Unless he KO's or kill Surfer right off the bat (which even I have trouble seeing), X-Man would ultimately lose.
^ Annihilation Surfer is just Surfer with a power boost as featured in the recent Annihilation crossover. It should be considered "current Surfer" now.
Rapidshare of the X-over. (http://rapidshare.com/files/18005010/AH-Annihilation.rar)
Rapishare of his stand alone issues. (http://rapidshare.com/files/17983953/AH-SilverSurfer.rar)
Thanks to these guys (http://www.freecomicbooks.org/).
Dude I fucking give you, Athenian boy sex for posting a kick ass link.:nod
Spy_Smasher
08-27-2007, 08:12 PM
^ Lol. Boy sex accepted.
Comic Book Guy - King of Hell Spawn, is considered the 2nd strongest incarnation of Spawn.
But its not the title that makes him strong. But access to limitless amount of resources he can now use.
Similar to X-Man, Spawn was also hindered in battle. If he burnt himself out (he had a limited amount of energy reserve) he would die…well not really. He would just go strait to hell, and re-charge his depleted energy. The problem is the torment and physiological drama he would endure in the process. Each time, making him more savage, vengeful, unmerciful. All those good things. As King of Hell, not only is he granted an army and a domain in which he can alter to his liking. But he can now act as he wishes, with out the need to go back for some force fed necro plasma recharge.
Certainly, mind attacks would prove futile against Spawn. But the high level of TK and Psi attacks should hold up against him. He is not really immune to injury or to any specific type of power set. He is however durable with vast regentive properties ala Hulk, Deadpool, or Lobo.
Mad Titan - I do not think, Star Light Extinction would work. On some one who is known to travel between dimensions and realities. I also do not know, if Stardust Revolution would terminate Nate if he has a force field (let it be Psi or TK) with his TK augmented durability. I mean he did take a shot from Queen Jean head on like nothing (The other Nate did not survive this). And He did survive the beating from Qabirl (Mr. I blow up planets, the way Freeza would dream of).
Comic Book Guy
08-27-2007, 09:14 PM
Comic Book Guy - King of Hell Spawn, is considered the 2nd strongest incarnation of Spawn.
But its not the title that makes him strong. But access to limitless amount of resources he can now use.
Similar to X-Man, Spawn was also hindered in battle. If he burnt himself out (he had a limited amount of energy reserve) he would die…well not really. He would just go strait to hell, and re-charge his depleted energy. The problem is the torment and physiological drama he would endure in the process. Each time, making him more savage, vengeful, unmerciful. All those good things. As King of Hell, not only is he granted an army and a domain in which he can alter to his liking. But he can now act as he wishes, with out the need to go back for some force fed necro plasma recharge.
Certainly, mind attacks would prove futile against Spawn. But the high level of TK and Psi attacks should hold up against him. He is not really immune to injury or to any specific type of power set. He is however durable with vast regentive properties ala Hulk, Deadpool, or Lobo.
I'd say that Spawn then would outlast Nate.
Mad Titan - I do not think, Star Light Extinction would work. On some one who is known to travel between dimensions and realities. I also do not know, if Stardust Revolution would terminate Nate if he has a force field (let it be Psi or TK) with his TK augmented durability. I mean he did take a shot from Queen Jean head on like nothing (The other Nate did not survive this). And He did survive the beating from Qabirl (Mr. I blow up planets, the way Freeza would dream of).[/QUOTE]
Well, Nate could just step out of the world to avoid said attack and step back in when it's done. If the attack's scope is limited in range, he could teleport farther away.
Though, the former would count as a ring-out, even if willing.
Well yeah, I think Spawn would out last him. In fact, its my opinion that if Nate reaches Spawn, it ends here.
But this would still be a good match.
Because of the prep time, Nate now has accesses to all of Cables experience and knowledge.
This should help, in strategic combat. (Seeing as both, are listed as elite soldiers).
And yes Spawn has limitless resources. But he never really took the time, to learn how to use his abilities. He refused to take any guidance, and what he knows is mostly trial and error. Even after the King Of Hell age, he still did not make a conscious effort, to find out the scope of his abilities. Unlike Simmons, Grey has shown great self awareness in his Shaman Age. And this should be an obvious advantage in Greys favor. Spawn inability to seek out self awareness, is the reason why I place King Of Hell Spawn around Herald Level. Despite having so much potential.
Here are some key abilities he has shown.
Magic
Telepathy (world level - both defensive and offensive).
Matter Transmutation
Reality Altering
Time manipulation
But really the only real threat, from Spawn is his Time halting abilities. The only response I could think off, would be Nates ability to shift and merge between the physical realm and astral plane. Thus not be in the direct influence of time manipulation or any form of attack, yet he is able to go on the offensive safely.
Unless Spawn decided to go of to the astral realm and deal with Nate. Note: Spawn has that potential, and the means to do so. But I can not think of one instance, he has openly shown any knowledge of what the astral realm is. And how to get their.
Edit - I really, really like both characters. And God I wished some one could make a cross over match in a comic book. I really have the urge to do it myself.
DarkLordDragon
08-28-2007, 07:02 PM
In my opinion I think Aries Shion will win against Nate. He is powerful and he might be even better in telekinesis and the use of psychic powers however I don’t see how that could help him against Shion. Shion has the 7th sense so even if Nate gives him his best shot and destroy Shion’s mind it wouldn’t be enough. If Ikki a Bronze Saint with the use of the 7th sense survived after losing the 6th sense as well what about Shion who is considered the current strongest Gold Saint !?
As for travelling between dimensions that’s possible but that only if Hades allows him to do so, we both know that to be able to live and get out of the underworld in Hades at least you need to have the 8th sense otherwise you are screwed. If we consider the restrictions of each respected universes I think he will not survive the Starlight Extension.
I don’t think his force fields can protect him against Shion full power Stardust Revolution. Shion was able to destroy Mu’s Crystal Wall an invisible wall created by a master of the Psychic & Telekinesis art still it was shattered. What can the force do if Shion unleash all of his powers? The guy in episode G was said to have cosmo beyond anything we ever come across in Saint Seiya Universe.
In addition to that Shion has this great technique, where every attack or blow he get he can release the force he received out of his body. We saw how he released out all the forces he took from Dohko’s ultimate attack. A bloodlusted Shion in his Gold Cloth with access to all his powers would be able to defeat Nate if you ask me.
See you around guys and waiting for more. For some reasons I am missing Gemini Kanon :P
Well its time to make this a bit more interesting.
In my opinion I think Aries Shion will win against Nate. He is powerful and he might be even better in telekinesis and the use of psychic powers however I don’t see how that could help him against Shion. Shion has the 7th sense so even if Nate gives him his best shot and destroy Shion’s mind it wouldn’t be enough. If Ikki a Bronze Saint with the use of the 7th sense survived after losing the 6th sense as well what about Shion who is considered the current strongest Gold Saint !?
It does however hinder Shion. Though a Saint can burn his cosmo power to limitless heights. Its body still wares out. Or the way I see it, the constat use of cosmo power to substitute a lost sense. Well it seems to me as a disadvantage.
As for travelling between dimensions that’s possible but that only if Hades allows him to do so, we both know that to be able to live and get out of the underworld in Hades at least you need to have the 8th sense otherwise you are screwed. If we consider the restrictions of each respected universes I think he will not survive the Starlight Extension.
For the most part we don’t see Hades interfere, with characters that reach well Hades inferno.
That’s why he has, Cerberus, his Judges, etc…And its well known that if Nate was to arrive in the underworld. He would not die, he only losses 90% of his powers. But not 90% of his ability.
The ability to travel between dimension are just that. If Shion was to send Nate to Hades Inferno, Nate would not die, but I figure its well within reason for Nate to notice he is not in the same plane of existence and leave.
I don’t think his force fields can protect him against Shion full power Stardust Revolution. Shion was able to destroy Mu’s Crystal Wall an invisible wall created by a master of the Psychic & Telekinesis art still it was shattered. What can the force do if Shion unleash all of his powers? The guy in episode G was said to have cosmo beyond anything we ever come across in Saint Seiya Universe.
Its vary possible that Shion must have known how to shatter Mu Crystal Wall, with out emphasizing much on force. After all he, did make up the technique and teach it to Mu. And lets be honest, Saint Seiya always makes such claims as “The one with the biggest Cosmo, Most Terrible Cosmo etc…”.
Shion cosmo is probably the biggest among the 12 Gold Saints respectively. But the 5 bronze Saints and the reincarnated Gods are the ones that really have the grandest of the Cosmo.
Besides, how much trust can you place on a guy that was just a mere Hades foot soldier. Its not like we have a record or history of Hades army triumphaly waging wars across the universe.
And lets place, emphasis on what Nate has taken blows and survived. (I could place narrative comments, but I rather list what he has shown. Since its more concrete).
Thanos (energy blast - Psi Armor Was on),
Hulk (Brawl with Psy Armor Psi Shield UP
M”Kran Crystal Guardian‘s, (Tanking hits from the guardians with TK shield)
3 - Great Beasts (He avoided getting smashed, when he TK augmented his strength.)
Nathan held his own against the Silver Surfer.
From the list above, and judging how each encounter is a respectively high tier character (from Super Strong - To Border line Cosmic characters). I would think that augmenting his physical stats via TK, having a armor of pisnoc construct over himself and placing a TK barrier. Would be sufficient to tank some of Shions attacks.
In addition to that Shion has this great technique, where every attack or blow he get he can release the force he received out of his body. We saw how he released out all the forces he took from Dohko’s ultimate attack. A bloodlusted Shion in his Gold Cloth with access to all his powers would be able to defeat Nate if you ask me.
Not if the attack was to mortally wound him. After all, we are talking to a guy that Smashed the Surfers Bored.
You know, the cosmic powered alien who’s Surf bored is made of the same substance of himself. The Alien that flies into a singularity with out getting crushed, and breezes through the sun as it was nothing.
Comic Book Guy
08-29-2007, 04:14 AM
Now this is how we discuss.
DarkLordDragon
08-30-2007, 08:05 PM
It does however hinder Shion. Though a Saint can burn his cosmo power to limitless heights. Its body still wares out. Or the way I see it, the constat use of cosmo power to substitute a lost sense. Well it seems to me as a disadvantage.
Well yeah maybe but I cannot say it will 100% work against Shion. The guy’s cosmo were surrounding him even though he is dead, can you imagine how much control he has over his cosmo? In addition to that the GenRouMaouKen didn’t work very well against Shura and we all know Shura is no where near Shion in terms of pshycic powers and control of mind. Again Shion has this invisible wall, the Crystal Wall that can protect him against any type of attacks. Remember Deep Niobe’s technique, the technique cannot be seen or touch and it enters skin and it’s considered one of the intangible techniques. However Mu’s Crystal Wall didn’t allow such technique to pass so I really wonder how Nate’s ability would hinder Shion when Shion having all this advantages on his side.
For the most part we don’t see Hades interfere, with characters that reach well Hades inferno.
That’s why he has, Cerberus, his Judges, etc…And its well known that if Nate was to arrive in the underworld. He would not die, he only losses 90% of his powers. But not 90% of his ability.
I am sorry but I guess you are mixing between the Underworld and Hades’ Barrier. Hades’
Barrier is the force field that reduces the power of the saint to 10% this including their abilities and techniques, including their cloths as well. However if you are Underworld it means you are dead, Hades only let his Specters to travel between the two worlds without being dead but once you entered without 8th sense you are dead there (At least in the Saint Seiya Universe) thanks to the 8th sense Orphee survived.
If they still can travel then Shaka and the rest wouldn’t have to go so far to use the 8th sense. 8th sense is an ability to move and be alive in the world of the dead not granting them powers against the force fields. In fact in the Underworld there is no force fields created (That’s we know from Rhadamanthys’ statement).
Its vary possible that Shion must have known how to shatter Mu Crystal Wall, with out emphasizing much on force. After all he, did make up the technique and teach it to Mu.
Well I don’t think so because it was clear that Shion were far superior in term of Psychic powers when we compare him with Mu. Even the old Dohko had more powers after all he disabled Shion’s paralyzing technique without much effort while Mu couldn’t even move. It’s not because he taught him or not, it’s just the difference between real master of psychic powers and the discipline.
And lets be honest, Saint Seiya always makes such claims as “The one with the biggest Cosmo, Most Terrible Cosmo etc…”.
Shion cosmo is probably the biggest among the 12 Gold Saints respectively. But the 5 bronze Saints and the reincarnated Gods are the ones that really have the grandest of the Cosmo.
As far as I know the only one that they stated in the anime to have the greatest cosmo was Virgo Shaka while Gemini Saint was mentioned to be the most terrible Gold Saint and then in the latest it was mentioned that thanks to his double personality Saga obtains the greatest amount of cosmo. While in Manga it was never mentioned who had the most terrible cosmo. It’s true that Bronze Saints were able to burn their cosmo beyond the level of the Gold Saints that’s why they became even stronger but they never denied that, even Dohko himself admitted that.
Besides, how much trust can you place on a guy that was just a mere Hades foot soldier. Its not like we have a record or history of Hades army triumphaly waging wars across the universe.
So true but again if that was not the case we wouldn’t be seeing Rune being too scared to think that Dohko entered the Underworld (When he felt Kanon’s cosmo) so Dohko & Shion having the greatest cosmo isn’t just a mere statement but a fact. Don’t forget that the Gold Saints considered the strongest warriors of a god, meaning they are stronger than judges, angels, ghost warriors, generals…etc it was stated several times.
Not if the attack was to mortally wound him. After all, we are talking to a guy that Smashed the Surfers Bored.
You know, the cosmic powered alien who’s Surf bored is made of the same substance of himself. The Alien that flies into a singularity with out getting crushed, and breezes through the sun as it was nothing.
I am wondering what type of powers he used to destroy the board. If he can do it who knows, Shion might be able to do it as well.
Here are some questions that might help us to determine who might win?
Can Nate react and fight at the speed of light?
Can Nate survive if he is being hit by millions blows per second?
Can Nate fight someone who can hide his presence?
What if Nate’s nervous system were damaged? Will this slow him down a little bit?
Until then I will be seeing some other topics my friend ;)
CBG:
Now this is how we discuss
I am pleased to hear this coming from you ^_^
Well yeah maybe but I cannot say it will 100% work against Shion. The guy’s cosmo were surrounding him even though he is dead, can you imagine how much control he has over his cosmo? In addition to that the GenRouMaouKen didn’t work very well against Shura and we all know Shura is no where near Shion in terms of pshycic powers and control of mind. Again Shion has this invisible wall, the Crystal Wall that can protect him against any type of attacks. Remember Deep Niobe’s technique, the technique cannot be seen or touch and it enters skin and it’s considered one of the intangible techniques. However Mu’s Crystal Wall didn’t allow such technique to pass so I really wonder how Nate’s ability would hinder Shion when Shion having all this advantages on his side.
No you misinterpreted my statement. You mentioned how the 7 th sense would substitute any of his 6 senses if lost, including his mind. I replied, having your mind substituted by the 7th sense, forces you to burn your cosmo. This would be an obvious hindrance for any saint.
I didn’t bother to debate the ineffectiveness of, mind assault on a saint or if it would by pass crystal wall. (it was not a topic being addressed.)
I am sorry but I guess you are mixing between the Underworld and Hades’ Barrier. Hades’
Barrier is the force field that reduces the power of the saint to 10% this including their abilities and techniques, including their cloths as well. However if you are Underworld it means you are dead, Hades only let his Specters to travel between the two worlds without being dead but once you entered without 8th sense you are dead there (At least in the Saint Seiya Universe) thanks to the 8th sense Orphee survived.
If that is the case, then Nate might face his end if sent of to the world of Hades.
Though there is a variable. He did officially die, and came back from the dead.
CBG can you confirm this? I will look up the issue number.
Well I don’t think so because it was clear that Shion were far superior in term of Psychic powers when we compare him with Mu. Even the old Dohko had more powers after all he disabled Shion’s paralyzing technique without much effort while Mu couldn’t even move. It’s not because he taught him or not, it’s just the difference between real master of psychic powers and the discipline.
Excuse my ignorance, but I had no clue “Crystal Wall” was developed using psychics properties. As far as I am concerned, Crystal Wall has no relation to Telekinesis.
Its merely a technique that Shion came up using his cosmo power.
So to me that Shion was able do dissable the same technique he taught his student. Is not relevant, to Dohko disabling Shion paralysis.
As far as I know the only one that they stated in the anime to have the greatest cosmo was Virgo Shaka while Gemini Saint was mentioned to be the most terrible Gold Saint and then in the latest it was mentioned that thanks to his double personality Saga obtains the greatest amount of cosmo. While in Manga it was never mentioned who had the most terrible cosmo. It’s true that Bronze Saints were able to burn their cosmo beyond the level of the Gold Saints that’s why they became even stronger but they never denied that, even Dohko himself admitted that.
So true but again if that was not the case we wouldn’t be seeing Rune being too scared to think that Dohko entered the Underworld (When he felt Kanon’s cosmo) so Dohko & Shion having the greatest cosmo isn’t just a mere statement but a fact. Don’t forget that the Gold Saints considered the strongest warriors of a god, meaning they are stronger than judges, angels, ghost warriors, generals…etc it was stated several times.
It still does not merit the hype up, the foot soldier mentioned in Ep. G.
It sounds more like poetic justice, then fact.
I am wondering what type of powers he used to destroy the board. If he can do it who knows, Shion might be able to do it as well.
Looks to me like a concentrated psionic blast.
The Gold Armor have their limitations, seeing as how Saga punched a hole in his own armor. I wouldn’t think, Nate physically one shoot, in a single stroke would be to far stretched. Seeing as, Nate has bin seen to physically augment his strength to greater extent.
Can Nate react and fight at the speed of light?
If Nathan Summers can react to a serious Silver Surfer and fight him.
And If Nathan Summers can react to Light master ( another confirmed light speed user), and fight him as well.
Then looking, into how his multitasking reached a global scale.
I would say yes. Nate does have the capacity to fight at light speed.
Can Nate survive if he is being hit by millions blows per second?
If he can react at the speed of light.
Have his physical body augmented to survive attacks from a planet buster, survive re-entry from earth orbit (Apparently the Gold Saints cant survive this unaided, as seen in Shura vs. Shiru match), and survive direct impact on earth. Then Heal his wound.
Add on, an armor made of psionic construct that father augments strenth and durability (enough to tank Hulk, and Thanos blows).
And finish off with a psi or tk, force field (that ware shown to tank some of the M’Kran crystal Guardians..).
Then yes he should be able to survive a million hits per second.
Can Nate fight someone who can hide his presence?
Its within possibility. 12 mutant telepaths attempted to shield them self’s from being detected. Nate had no problem detecting him. Rahada managed to find Saga, it was never stated how. But for Nate their could be logical explanation. Nate has the ability to fine tune his TK to an atomic level, and his range is fairly far (city-continental possibly more). Its just a matter of Shion to move, for Nate to detect him.
Besides, Shion isn’t the only one that can pull of this feat. Nate can hide his presence, and become intangible.
What if Nate’s nervous system were damaged? Will this slow him down a little bit?
Its within possibility, if not vary effective. Both Shion or Nate would be effected if their nervous system was to be attacked.
Only Nate has the going intangible feat.
And then their his other unique ability, which is regarded as a higher form of intangibility.
I did not place Nate against a single character from the Gauntlet. If I didn’t think, he had no chance of winning. And vice versa, none of the characters in the Gauntlet are going to be an easy victory. In fact, I think just about everyone has a chance against each other.(minus King of Hell Spawn, and Annihilation Surfer.. Those two are a tad bit, up the power curve.)
Havoc
09-01-2007, 02:51 AM
How would psi weapons effect a saint?
How would psi weapons effect a saint?
The same way a psi blast in a the form of raw energy effected the Silver Surfer:huh
Havoc
09-01-2007, 03:00 AM
Psi weapons don't act the same way psi blasts do though.
Unless psi blasts can cut things, I don't know.
Basically psi weapons work like a normal weapon except you determine how strong it is by your will
Psi weapons don't act the same way psi blasts do though.
Unless psi blasts can cut things, I don't know.
Basically psi weapons work like a normal weapon except you determine how strong it is by your will
I don't understand how, this has relevance to Nathans psi blast.
Havoc
09-01-2007, 11:48 AM
You brought up psi blasts...I was saying they are not the same.
My original question was basically asking if a saint could be hurt by a psi blade.
DarkLordDragon
09-01-2007, 12:45 PM
, including his mind. I replied, having your mind substituted by the 7th sense, forces you to burn your cosmo. This would be an obvious hindrance for any saint.
Yup I do agree, using the cosmo forever would for sure make the saint tired after all he is burning his source of powers. You are right but if we are not including Seiya :P
Though there is a variable. He did officially die, and came back from the dead.
CBG can you confirm this? I will look up the issue number.
That’s possible because he didn’t go to the Hades, but if we apply Saint Seiya naturally he will be in Hades then staying there forever unless Hades revive him. Once you are in you cannot get free.
Excuse my ignorance, but I had no clue “Crystal Wall” was developed using psychics properties. As far as I am concerned, Crystal Wall has no relation to Telekinesis.
I didn’t say that the Crystal Wall is a technique consists of Psychic Powers, I just specified the difference between Shion & Mu in term of Psychic Powers because we all so that even the old Dohko was superior.
Its merely a technique that Shion came up using his cosmo power.
So to me that Shion was able do dissable the same technique he taught his student.
That’s not the case because if you want to break the Crystall Wall you need to have a cosmo far stronger than Mu, there is no other way to break it. It was already known before. However I will let you know that if Nate used another dimension technique and appeared behind him that would work.
Is not relevant, to Dohko disabling Shion paralysis.
That was to show the difference between Shion & Mu in term of psychic powers n_n
It still does not merit the hype up, the foot soldier mentioned in Ep. G.
It sounds more like poetic justice, then fact.
Nope it was already very well known that Shion had the greatest cosmo among the Gold Saints since he was the pope otherwise he wouldn’t be a pope in the first place. I don’t know if you are aware of that or not, but the pope who leads the Gold Saints MUST BE THE STRONGEST GOLD SAINT in that era.
What was a poetic justice as you name it was when those Hades’ foot soldiers said: “What a power! A Cosmo that is capable of Destroying the Universe!!! A Power which is equal to the Big Bang… Is this the power of a Gold Saint!” <<<< see this is what I would call a poetic justice.
The Gold Armor have their limitations, seeing as how Saga punched a hole in his own armor. I wouldn’t think, Nate physically one shoot, in a single stroke would be to far stretched. Seeing as, Nate has bin seen to physically augment his strength to greater extent.
You are really underestimating Saga’s punch here. I was going to create a whole topic regarding Saga’s blow. That Blow not only killed the Gemini Gold Saint himself but also killed the former pope (Aries Shion) with the same blow. Even if Shion was old we all know he would be at least as strong as any other Gold Saints (We already saw that the old pope of the ancient war was even stronger than Normal Gold Saints and another example was Dohko himself). Then again we see Saga trying to use the same blow to kill Aries Mu in Hades OVA. However Shion stops him because he already knew if Saga delivered that blow Mu is dead because he already experienced that blow :D
Let’s go further and remind you of something. Have any Saint or anyone in Saint Seiya beside the Gods was able to go through the Gold Cloth in such way? Even Seiya was only able to destroy the horn which was thin compared to Saga’s cloth in his heart. That blow of Saga did really go through the Gold Cloth that was capable of withstanding attacks that has incredible force behind them. So please ID never underestimate Saga’s punch :P ^_~
I would say yes. Nate does have the capacity to fight at light speed.
I don’t know how you calculated this but I would say that Shion can easily match and exceed his speed.
Add on, an armor made of psionic construct that father augments strenth and durability (enough to tank Hulk, and Thanos blows).
Not every single blow of Thanos can be harmful n_n
Then yes he should be able to survive a million hits per second.
I am still not convinced that he would be surviving that every time especially if Shion using his Stardust Revolution.
I did not place Nate against a single character from the Gauntlet. If I didn’t think, he had no chance of winning. And vice versa, none of the characters in the Gauntlet are going to be an easy victory. In fact, I think just about everyone has a chance against each other
That’s why I like to participate in your battles ^_^
I didn’t say that the Crystal Wall is a technique consists of Psychic Powers, I just specified the difference between Shion & Mu in term of Psychic Powers because we all so that even the old Dohko was superior.
If you look at this way. For as much of difference Dohko and Shion are superior to Mu. And regard them as masters of the psychic powers. It still does not merit that either are on the level of Nate.
Respectively the Saints have demonstrated versatility in the use of psychic powers. But the feats demonstrated are no greater then low end feats demonstrated by entry level, to mid level marvel Psi characters. Let alone, the grander scale of power that Nathan is operating in. I think at this point his is not to far from Telekinetic God, ware matter reacts to its slights whim.
Judging by the insufficient feats, that show Shion can even compete with Nate at this point. Their isn’t much that does not state, Nate can not simply paralyze him the way Shion did to Mu.
That’s not the case because if you want to break the Crystall Wall you need to have a cosmo far stronger than Mu, there is no other way to break it. It was already known before. However I will let you know that if Nate used another dimension technique and appeared behind him that would work.
Hm…I don’t think that’s the case. To begin with we already know that, in the Saint Seiya verse characters can operate on other forms of power aside from cosmo power (as in the case of Krishna). And I don’t remember reading any scan stating, “Your cosmo power needs to be higher then mine to overcome my Crystal Wall”. And finally I belive the OB for some time has adopted the rule “Ability Overlap/Universe Equivalence” (from the “General OBD Assumptions”).
This is where things become even more unclear.
I still see the odd new member say something along the lines of "that won't work because they have no reiatsu/reishi/chakra/ki/yoki/spiritual power/etc..."
To make it fair for all combatants, any ability that they have which is prevalent upon their opponent having the same type of power, that everyone in their universe has, is still usable. You may wonder "why is that?"
It's simple, not only does it give everyone a fighting chance, but it's also because all of the above mentioned forms of power are at least somewhat based on the same principle. Spirit.
Also, just because one character lives in a universe where there is no magic, that doesn't mean that all magical attacks from the other combatant aren't usable.
I admit that this one is veeery highly disagreed upon
Which leads to believe that, if sufficient force is applied the wall will break.
Nope it was already very well known that Shion had the greatest cosmo among the Gold Saints since he was the pope otherwise he wouldn’t be a pope in the first place. I don’t know if you are aware of that or not, but the pope who leads the Gold Saints MUST BE THE STRONGEST GOLD SAINT in that era.
What was a poetic justice as you name it was when those Hades’ foot soldiers said: “What a power! A Cosmo that is capable of Destroying the Universe!!! A Power which is equal to the Big Bang… Is this the power of a Gold Saint!” <<<< see this is what I would call a poetic justice.
cosmo beyond anything we ever come across in Saint Seiya Universe.
^ Regarding specifically this statement. there is a certain fallaency, and the statement can be regarded in different perspectives.
Fallacy - there is no record of Hades ever waging war across the universe.
Difference in perspective - The Foot soldier, is only really saying. “This is the strongest cosmo I have ever come across to this date”.
Inherently we know, that Shion does not hold the most powerful cosmo.
For all we know, the foot soldier has never bin in front of the other Saints, Judges or even the Gods. He might have a vary poor comparison for cosmo power.
We must remember, that strength isn’t the only deciding factor in becoming of Pope. Shion became the pope, after the Era had concluded. We have no idea how strong the former Pope or the former saints ware.
You are really underestimating Saga’s punch here. I was going to create a whole topic regarding Saga’s blow. That Blow not only killed the Gemini Gold Saint himself but also killed the former pope (Aries Shion) with the same blow. Even if Shion was old we all know he would be at least as strong as any other Gold Saints (We already saw that the old pope of the ancient war was even stronger than Normal Gold Saints and another example was Dohko himself). Then again we see Saga trying to use the same blow to kill Aries Mu in Hades OVA. However Shion stops him because he already knew if Saga delivered that blow Mu is dead because he already experienced that blow :D
Let’s go further and remind you of something. Have any Saint or anyone in Saint Seiya beside the Gods was able to go through the Gold Cloth in such way? Even Seiya was only able to destroy the horn which was thin compared to Saga’s cloth in his heart. That blow of Saga did really go through the Gold Cloth that was capable of withstanding attacks that has incredible force behind them. So please ID never underestimate Saga’s punch :P ^_~
To know exactly how much pound per square inch the Gold Armor can with stand…we have no real clue.
Such information was never granted.
(we do have data on the bronze cloths though). We can however compare each others physical strength and determine if X character has the capacity to shatter it (based on feat). Thats only because we have seen, the armors shatter under physical force.
Comparing the strength feats, to Nates augmented strength merit’s the possibility of Nate punching through the armor, if an opportunity is presented. This is only because, we have seen the extent of Nates strength (which seems within reason, if we use the Saints feats as reference). In fact, this prior to becoming Shaman. As Shaman Nate its well within the possibility that he can father augment his strength beyond his earlier demonstrations.
You see I am not giving or taking away from Saints. I am however directly comparing them to Nates.
I don’t know how you calculated this but I would say that Shion can easily match and exceed his speed.
You asked me a simple question.
“Can Nate react and fight at the speed of light?”
I listed instances ware he fought FTL, opponents. And posted how his thinking capacity merits, this faster then light reactions.
Not every single blow of Thanos can be harmful n_n
You rarely see Hulk’s outer layer of skin incinerated exposing inner-flesh and muscle.
Great amount of force must be exerted to do so. Same issue, same Thanos, Nate took the same blasts at point blank range. And his psionic armor held.
I would say, Thanos place a good amount of effort.
I am still not convinced that he would be surviving that every time especially if Shion using his Stardust Revolution.
I say he does, there are several creditable variables working for his protections. Eventually like any shield, armor, force field….etc.
It would ware out, and breach. But I seriously doubt Nate is just going to sit their and get hit constantly.
When he is a vary diverse character with options to counter.
What is Shion going to do is Nate decides to shift from the physical plane, to the astral plane and merge in between both?
This feat is vary unique to Nate, he adopts properties of both the physical plane and the astral plane.
Yet he is not effected by the physical plane attacks. It would be the equivalent of Hades attacking from the Hades realm, to Earth Saints. And the Saints unable to do much but defend.
Probably stops at #1, Kuririn and Gohan used psychic on the way to Namek, obviously Bejiito will have defense towards it.
And there is so much he can do to kill him, speedblitz, fireball him etc.
Comic Book Guy
09-01-2007, 05:28 PM
Here are some questions that might help us to determine who might win?
Can Nate fight someone who can hide his presence?
Well, can said hidden presence be detected by telepathy?
Though, Nate's telepathy had been employed in other ways didn't involve human minds.
What if Nate’s nervous system were damaged? Will this slow him down a little bit?
It did. X-Man #69, I believe. Mr. Scratch crushed his spine, and he couldn't use his powers because of the pain he was in.
Though, if emotionally agitated enough, his powers would act on its own accord, I suppose.
I am pleased to hear this coming from you ^_^
You're welcome.
If that is the case, then Nate might face his end if sent of to the world of Hades.
Though there is a variable. He did officially die, and came back from the dead.
CBG can you confirm this? I will look up the issue number.
Somewhere in the 20s, I believe. X-Man died from Coldsnap, but his powers (or was it his mind) refused to die. His powers was what basically brought him back, restored and all, but he ended up in a coma later, and thus was found by the 3 girls.
If he can react at the speed of light.
Have his physical body augmented to survive attacks from a planet buster, survive re-entry from earth orbit (Apparently the Gold Saints cant survive this unaided, as seen in Shura vs. Shiru match), and survive direct impact on earth. Then Heal his wound.
Add on, an armor made of psionic construct that father augments strenth and durability (enough to tank Hulk, and Thanos blows).
And finish off with a psi or tk, force field (that ware shown to tank some of the M’Kran crystal Guardians..).
Then yes he should be able to survive a million hits per second.
Well, he could also go intangible. . . of course, he never applied it in conflict.
Its within possibility, if not vary effective. Both Shion or Nate would be effected if their nervous system was to be attacked.
Only Nate has the going intangible feat.
And then their his other unique ability, which is regarded as a higher form of intangibility.
Which are you talking about, concerning the bolded?
Probably stops at #1, Kuririn and Gohan used psychic on the way to Namek, obviously Bejiito will have defense towards it.
And there is so much he can do to kill him, speedblitz, fireball him etc.
Curious, is the bold filler?
I don’t understand the writers. They give him all these abilities and powers. Yet its never fully shown, when he is in combat. But if a villain gains a similar ability (coughOnslaughtcough) they write it off, much better.
Any how, the first one would be rearranging his molecules to phase through solid objects. He sort of used in in combat one time (well its not exactly combat, but he did forced his telepathy while he was intangible).
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5323/uncannyxmen33510py7.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2998/uncannyxmen33511ef3.jpg
And then there is the shifting of two planes, and merging them. (I find it as a higher form of intangibility).
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee264/Soldier_X_Man/X-Man0-1_Page_17_Image_0001.jpg
Maybe he is written of, on lower power levels in order to let the story progressed. But after the number he did on, X-Man, Fantastic Four, and Abomination. Its clear to me that, vary few stand a chance unless they have some form of protection against Telepathy, Telekinesis or Psionics…and even then there is no guarantee.
Comic Book Guy
09-01-2007, 07:25 PM
It could be the lack of formal training -- since he learns the various applications through sheer trial and error -- and the fact that if he used more of his powers, the faster he'll die.
DarkLordDragon
09-01-2007, 07:46 PM
ID & CBG I will come back to you guys but I am little bit busy and for members like you I must give my full attention to what you write otherwise I would consider myself disrespectful to you n_n
However there is one thing I would like to add, that we shouldn't assume that Cosmo is like any other sort of powers (Spirit, Ki, Reiatsou) because Cosmo's nature is totally different than others.
Btw why am I the only one participating against Nate in this topic, c'mon guys it's really great battle and I can see alot of other great opponents for Nate besides Shion ^_~
It could be the lack of formal training -- since he learns the various applications through sheer trial and error -- and the fact that if he used more of his powers, the faster he'll die.
But some of these feats, especially the going intangible one (rearranging his molecules to phase through solid matter). That was seems to be a routine act for Nate, I can count like 5 instances ware he pulled it off with no real indication of strain. Problem is, he never does it in battle. For Shaman Nate (and the circumstances in this thread). He should have enough knowing, to pull it off with out putting himself in danger. Or at least that’s my own wishful thinking.
Comic Book Guy
09-03-2007, 04:29 PM
ID & CBG I will come back to you guys but I am little bit busy and for members like you I must give my full attention to what you write otherwise I would consider myself disrespectful to you n_n
Understandable.
However there is one thing I would like to add, that we shouldn't assume that Cosmo is like any other sort of powers (Spirit, Ki, Reiatsou) because Cosmo's nature is totally different than others.
Ah. An explanation would help clarify, though.
Btw why am I the only one participating against Nate in this topic, c'mon guys it's really great battle and I can see alot of other great opponents for Nate besides Shion ^_~
No idea, really.
But some of these feats, especially the going intangible one (rearranging his molecules to phase through solid matter). That was seems to be a routine act for Nate, I can count like 5 instances ware he pulled it off with no real indication of strain. Problem is, he never does it in battle. For Shaman Nate (and the circumstances in this thread). He should have enough knowing, to pull it off with out putting himself in danger. Or at least that’s my own wishful thinking.
Indeed. Perhaps the attacks, physical or otherwise, are non-static, as opposed to a simple wall.
Indeed. Perhaps the attacks, physical or otherwise, are non-static, as opposed to a simple wall.
Vary possible. But this one keeps me wondering.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9853/xman047page11image0001mu1.jpg
^I believe this scan can give a good argument that, he could potentially phase through solid attack.
1) He phased through Cable. Which I would consider non static.
2) It was done with out much effort or forthough (or so it seems).
If I want to analyze it a bit more. It seems more impressive than what it shows.
As we know, the T.O. constantly keeps Cable from using his bulk powers.
Nate essentially bypassed Cable, and the bulk of TK power suppressing the T.O.
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