A few questions to the Abrahamic faith believers

[erictheking]

This is directed at adherents of Christianity, Islam & Judaism.

How do you explain the differences that exist between the people on the planet? Why is one child born poor and unhealthy and another born healthy and rich? Why is it that different people have naturally different dispositions?

Also, consider a situation. A woman is pregnant in some deserted place..the baby is putting the mother's life at serious risk, and the mother dies shortly after giving birth to the baby. There is no-one else around. The newborn baby then soon dies. The baby's death cannot be used as a guinea pig as a 'test of faith' for anyone. What's the point of God doing this?

Also, if non-humans are soulless, why do they exist? For man to eat? Disregarding the moral implications of this, why does such a massively diverse range of life exist?

In fact, why create such a massive universe when the only important part of it is Earth? The existence of the Earth does not require all that unnecessary empty space. Or do all those stars exist so we have something to look at when we look up in the skies at night?

[Black Wraith]

How do you explain the differences that exist between the people on the planet?
God created everyone differently.

Why is one child born poor and unhealthy and another born healthy and rich? Why is it that different people have naturally different dispositions?

Muslims beleive that this world is a test and therefore people are given different tests, for example, a rich person would be tested on how he uses his wealth and treats those that are poorer whilst a poor person would be tested on whether or not he complains about everything and blames God for everything and to see if he has patiants.

Also, consider a situation. A woman is pregnant in some deserted place..the baby is putting the mother's life at serious risk, and the mother dies shortly after giving birth to the baby. There is no-one else around. The newborn baby then soon dies. The baby's death cannot be used as a guinea pig as a 'test of faith' for anyone. What's the point of God doing this?
The child can be used to get into heaven.

Also, if non-humans are soulless, why do they exist? For man to eat? Disregarding the moral implications of this, why does such a massively diverse range of life exist?
Muslims beleive that they do have a soul.

In fact, why create such a massive universe when the only important part of it is Earth? The existence of the Earth does not require all that unnecessary empty space. Or do all those stars exist so we have something to look at when we look up in the skies at night?
It's something to look and also shows how small we are compared to a lot of other creations of God. Plus in Islam there is nothing that says there is no life off Earh, it's says in the Quran that God is lord of all the worlds
, using the plural word.

[erictheking]

1) God created everyone differently.

Muslims beleive that this world is a test and therefore people are given different tests, for example, a rich person would be tested on how he uses his wealth and treats those that are poorer whilst a poor person would be tested on whether or not he complains about everything and blames God for everything and to see if he has patiants.

2) The child can be used to get into heaven.

3) Muslims beleive that they do have a soul.

4) It's something to look and also shows how small we are compared to a lot of other creations of God. Plus in Islam there is nothing that says there is no life off Earh, it's says in the Quran that God is lord of all the worlds
, using the plural word.

1) This is the issue though, why did God create everyone so differently when life is said to be a test?
It is arguably much easier for a rich person to give some of their money to charity and be generous than an extremely poor person having to secure food and water for themselves on a daily basis, and basically living a life of extreme hardships. In my opinion the inequality is too severe to justify on the grounds of a life test.
Also, what of people who are born with serious mental deficiencies? Some of them may not even understand a concept of God, and it would basically be impossible for them to be a proper believer because they simply don't have the potential. These people can't be tested in a fair way.

2) That explains what happens to the child, but why would it happen? Why would God simply create something that would perish within no time at all. If it enters paradise by default, it shows an element of unfairness about the situation, since the person has done nothing at all to enter paradise, and their death has affected no-one else at all either. Usually the justification of little kids dying is that it provides a test for the child's relatives/loved ones , but in this case there are no relatives and its death is meaningless. It doesn't seem fair that God would create one person to suffer terrible hardships and struggle incredibly to enter paradise while he creates this baby who dies within a day and achieves the same destination.

3) Interesting, what then happens to these animals upon death? Without freewill or morality affecting animals, it wouldn't befit them to enter paradise or hell would it? What is the purpose of their existence here on earth and in the afterlife?

4) Hmm, I'm sure in Christianity the Earth is the only place where free moral agents exist in the universe. If there is life on other planets in Islam, they would have to have had prophets there at some point, and the Qur'an should also be revealed there, in order to be fair. Does this imply another prophet apart from Muhammad who delivered the Qur'an?

[Tokyo Jihen]

1) This is the issue though, why did God create everyone so differently when life is said to be a test?
It is arguably much easier for a rich person to give some of their money to charity and be generous than an extremely poor person having to secure food and water for themselves on a daily basis, and basically living a life of extreme hardships. In my opinion the inequality is too severe to justify on the grounds of a life test.
Also, what of people who are born with serious mental deficiencies? Some of them may not even understand a concept of God, and it would basically be impossible for them to be a proper believer because they simply don't have the potential. These people can't be tested in a fair way.

Why can't God create everyone differently so that that itself be a test?

2nd, The rich has more responsibility with his property, how he earned it, how he took care of it, how he spent it, what happened to it after he's dead, used for good or not good, how much did the property let the owner reflect to God?, etc What was easy then, might come back nasty during audits.

Same goes to the poor. How has the hardship take his mind off God? Did he blame God or did he try to change that luck? Did he prioritize his ego over submission to God

The mental deficients are special people. God does not judge them the way He judges those who are not handicapped. I don't think God even judges them at all. They're like babies. Free ticket to paradise. Yay!

2) That explains what happens to the child, but why would it happen? Why would God simply create something that would perish within no time at all. If it enters paradise by default, it shows an element of unfairness about the situation, since the person has done nothing at all to enter paradise, and their death has affected no-one else at all either. Usually the justification of little kids dying is that it provides a test for the child's relatives/loved ones , but in this case there are no relatives and its death is meaningless. It doesn't seem fair that God would create one person to suffer terrible hardships and struggle incredibly to enter paradise while he creates this baby who dies within a day and achieves the same destination.

What? How can you say that? The baby did affect his mother. The baby will enter by default since he lived here even for a brief moment. And because of the fact he had no mental capability to accept or reject faith and therefore couldn't do anything at all about it, same with the previous point. Do you blame the incapable for not being capable? No, so they're not at fault anywhere anytime. They cannot even use their judgment, therefore cannot be judged. How is that unfair?

The mother died giving life. According to Islam, she's an earthly martyr. [the other type of martyr is the ones that died in war]. Therefore she's got the chance to have paradise as the baby will ask mercy on her behalf. Even if she is that selfish about heaven, that is not up to her to decide, neither the baby. Also, it is because of the system, the physics, the laws created the baby couldn't have lived in that kind of situation anyway. Had he died in the womb, I can't say for sure, but i don't think he'll go to heaven.

3) Interesting, what then happens to these animals upon death? Without freewill or morality affecting animals, it wouldn't befit them to enter paradise or hell would it? What is the purpose of their existence here on earth and in the afterlife?

If i'm not mistaken, all animals will enter paradise except snakes, dogs [except for one particular dog], swines and those slaughtered in the names other than God's [these animals will be accountable to the one who slaughtered it]. Correct me if i'm wrong here dear Muslims.

4) Hmm, I'm sure in Christianity the Earth is the only place where free moral agents exist in the universe. If there is life on other planets in Islam, they would have to have had prophets there at some point, and the Qur'an should also be revealed there, in order to be fair. Does this imply another prophet apart from Muhammad who delivered the Qur'an?

No. the Qur'an did not suggest a specific life of any intelligence exist, but it does not deny it. And actually, exactly to be fair, Qur'an couldn't have been delivered to these species, if exist. They hold for themselves their issues and laws, same as to the different approach God sent during Moses time, Jesus's and Muhammad's. Differences are the approach and some aspects relevant to the people of the time. But the main theme would be the same: Worship one God, ¥don't change God's words [but don't mind men's], kill the apostates and traitors, pay your taxes to help the poor, eat good food, and die a believer. Did I miss any highlight?

Could've been different for aliens if they don't eat. Or they eat men.


It would be interesting if sj2k is still here. He could've said something Jewsy but I bet it's gonna be much different. Christian's on the other hand, i'm not saying....but i'm guessing.

[MartialHorror]

This is directed at adherents of Christianity, Islam & Judaism.

How do you explain the differences that exist between the people on the planet? Why is one child born poor and unhealthy and another born healthy and rich? Why is it that different people have naturally different dispositions?

Also, consider a situation. A woman is pregnant in some deserted place..the baby is putting the mother's life at serious risk, and the mother dies shortly after giving birth to the baby. There is no-one else around. The newborn baby then soon dies. The baby's death cannot be used as a guinea pig as a 'test of faith' for anyone. What's the point of God doing this?

Also, if non-humans are soulless, why do they exist? For man to eat? Disregarding the moral implications of this, why does such a massively diverse range of life exist?

In fact, why create such a massive universe when the only important part of it is Earth? The existence of the Earth does not require all that unnecessary empty space. Or do all those stars exist so we have something to look at when we look up in the skies at night?

1) The general responce will be it has to do with Gods plan.

2) The general responce will be their lives and deaths would serve a greater purpose.

3) If I recall, there is no biblical verse that states non-humans are soulless.......its generally presumed though(the biggest implication is Christ says something which may imply this). They have similar purposes as humans, and yes, often to be eaten.

4) Who says its being wasted?

[mujb1988]

In Islam, the reason that we are living in this live is in order to live up to our true value [as the highest purpose].
And the only way to do that is to be free to choose the right way.So we should be free to take our intention into action, correct, a side effect of this will be the suffering that we see all over the world, but we cannot punish someone just for the fact that he had bad intentions.
And for the example that you gave, the child is pure and will go to heaven.No tyranny or suffering will be left unjudged and uncompensated in the afterlife.

[maj1n]

If any parent puts one of his children in poverty and another in extreme wealth just to fucken 'test' them, he would be jailed no question.

That religious people can somehow justify this for God is a sign of how much religion can warp ones morality.

[mujb1988]

If any parent puts one of his children in poverty and another in extreme wealth just to fucken 'test' them, he would be jailed no question.

That religious people can somehow justify this for God is a sign of how much religion can warp ones morality.
And what is the connection between what a parent does and what happens in this world ?

[maj1n]

And what is the connection between what a parent does and what happens in this world ?
The rationale is that the 'problem of evil' which is what the OP is talking about, that there exists inequality etc etc, being allowed by God, is so that he can test us.

I dont support that, its a sick mode of thinking, i wouldnt support a parent putting a child in poverty just to 'test' them either, i think thats sick.

There are two main truly sick beliefs in the abrahamic religion, the first is Hell, the second is this one, although this one is not so much a belief as a reactionary excuse.

[mujb1988]

The rationale is that the 'problem of evil' which is what the OP is talking about, that there exists inequality etc etc, being allowed by God, is so that he can test us.

I dont support that, its a sick mode of thinking, i wouldnt support a parent putting a child in poverty just to 'test' them either, i think thats sick.

Let's put it this way.If we are not free to take our intentions into action, the good and bad will be meaningless.Because in that way, there will be not difference between the people who do not do bad things and the people who want to but can't take it into action.In fact, we will not be really good unless we are free to do bad things too but choose to be good.
Hell
In the Islamic belief, the Hell and the Heaven are nothing but the true nature of our actions returned to us, it says so in Quran (cannot remember the versa number though, I hope one of the brother would help in this).
In fact, it's the same thing, for someone it's heaven, for another one it's hell and suffering.

[maj1n]

Let's put it this way.If we are not free to take our intentions into action, the good and bad will be meaningless.Because in that way, there will be not difference between the people who do not do bad things and the people who want to but can't take it into action.In fact, we will not be really good unless we are free to do bad things too but choose to be good.

Sorry no, free will doesn't cut it, if God is omnipotent he can make the world better then this.

I do not use the stupid free will argument to say a parent can put his child in poverty do i? as if somehow to 'show' good and evil.




In the Islamic belief, the Hell and the Heaven are nothing but the true nature of our actions returned to us, it says so in Quran (cannot remember the versa number though, I hope one of the brother would help in this).
In fact, it's the same thing, for someone it's heaven, for another one it's hell and suffering.
Then that is definitely a silly and immoral belief.

But no, all Abrahamic religions specify that non-believers go to hell, it doesn't matter if your good or bad, you don't believe in their God, you go to hell.

Eternal torture for that is sick, western civilization has moved beyond that already, we don't eternally torture those soldiers whom tried to get out of Iraq do we?

[Black Wraith]

1) This is the issue though, why did God create everyone so differently when life is said to be a test?
It is arguably much easier for a rich person to give some of their money to charity and be generous than an extremely poor person having to secure food and water for themselves on a daily basis, and basically living a life of extreme hardships. In my opinion the inequality is too severe to justify on the grounds of a life test.
Actually if you look at Islam carfully it is more harder for a rich man to pass th test then a poor man.
As 7th said a rcher man has a lot more responsibilities.

Also, what of people who are born with serious mental deficiencies? Some of them may not even understand a concept of God, and it would basically be impossible for them to be a proper believer because they simply don't have the potential. These people can't be tested in a fair way.

People with mental difficulties are what we call Ma zoor/excused, these include childeren, people with mental dificulties and a few more depending on circumstances.

2) That explains what happens to the child, but why would it happen? Why would God simply create something that would perish within no time at all. If it enters paradise by default, it shows an element of unfairness about the situation, since the person has done nothing at all to enter paradise, and their death has affected no-one else at all either. Usually the justification of little kids dying is that it provides a test for the child's relatives/loved ones , but in this case there are no relatives and its death is meaningless. It doesn't seem fair that God would create one person to suffer terrible hardships and struggle incredibly to enter paradise while he creates this baby who dies within a day and achieves the same destination.
Again as 7th said it is for the mother.
It's says in the Quran a few times to the closest meaning: We(God) elevates who we want and lowers who we want. We(God) gives to those we want and takes from those who we want.

3) Interesting, what then happens to these animals upon death? Without freewill or morality affecting animals, it wouldn't befit them to enter paradise or hell would it? What is the purpose of their existence here on earth and in the afterlife?
According to Islam all animals will cease to exist after the day of Judgement. On the day of judgement each animal will be called upon and if someone or some other animal did unjust to it, it will get it's chance for revenge e.g. if a horned animal attacks a non-horn animal, the horns will be given to the victim and will get the chance to take revenge. After this they will cease to exist.

The reason humans get to enter heaven is that this life is a test only for the humans and therefore the reward is only for the humans.

There will be other animals in Heaven but not those of Earth.

4) Hmm, I'm sure in Christianity the Earth is the only place where free moral agents exist in the universe. If there is life on other planets in Islam, they would have to have had prophets there at some point, and the Qur'an should also be revealed there, in order to be fair. Does this imply another prophet apart from Muhammad who delivered the Qur'an?
Muslims beleive that freewill was only given to the humans and therefore religion only came to us.

However what you must remember here is that humans are the best of all of Gods creature (Yay us). We can come to this conclusion by looking at what God calls the Prophet Muhammed, he calls him the best of all his creations. To be the best you must come from the best.
(Does this make sense?)

[cape]

If any parent puts one of his children in poverty and another in extreme wealth just to fucken 'test' them, he would be jailed no question.
If any parent does that even God would punish him.

God is not a parent, we are not his children, we are his creations.
You can't compare God to a parent, that's comparing two completely different things.

I dont support that, its a sick mode of thinking, i wouldnt support a parent putting a child in poverty just to 'test' them either, i think thats sick.

Same as above.

if God is omnipotent he can make the world better then this.
Well, he didn't, this world was not created for us to eternally live in, it's a test, and a test must have hardships, if it doesn't then it can't be called a test.

If you want a better world you can find that in heaven.


I do not use the stupid free will argument to say a parent can put his child in poverty do i? as if somehow to 'show' good and evil.
Same as above the above.

Eternal torture for that is sick, western civilization has moved beyond that already, we don't eternally torture those soldiers whom tried to get out of Iraq do we?
"Moved beyond that already" huh?

The western civilization is not God, they do not compare.

And two, who gave the western civilization the right to say that? Did they somehow get a phone call from God that he has changed his mind?!

If they stop believing that, then that does not mean that God has changed, it just means that the people are corrupting God's religion.




............................

[HyperKnuckles22]

i dont know how to answer that, Im a Jew. (expects anti-semitic jokes)

[erictheking]

Why can't God create everyone differently so that that itself be a test?

2nd, The rich has more responsibility with his property, how he earned it, how he took care of it, how he spent it, what happened to it after he's dead, used for good or not good, how much did the property let the owner reflect to God?, etc What was easy then, might come back nasty during audits.

Same goes to the poor. How has the hardship take his mind off God? Did he blame God or did he try to change that luck? Did he prioritize his ego over submission to God

The mental deficients are special people. God does not judge them the way He judges those who are not handicapped. I don't think God even judges them at all. They're like babies. Free ticket to paradise. Yay!



What? How can you say that? The baby did affect his mother. The baby will enter by default since he lived here even for a brief moment. And because of the fact he had no mental capability to accept or reject faith and therefore couldn't do anything at all about it, same with the previous point. Do you blame the incapable for not being capable? No, so they're not at fault anywhere anytime. They cannot even use their judgment, therefore cannot be judged. How is that unfair?

The mother died giving life. According to Islam, she's an earthly martyr. [the other type of martyr is the ones that died in war]. Therefore she's got the chance to have paradise as the baby will ask mercy on her behalf. Even if she is that selfish about heaven, that is not up to her to decide, neither the baby. Also, it is because of the system, the physics, the laws created the baby couldn't have lived in that kind of situation anyway. Had he died in the womb, I can't say for sure, but i don't think he'll go to heaven.



If i'm not mistaken, all animals will enter paradise except snakes, dogs [except for one particular dog], swines and those slaughtered in the names other than God's [these animals will be accountable to the one who slaughtered it]. Correct me if i'm wrong here dear Muslims.



No. the Qur'an did not suggest a specific life of any intelligence exist, but it does not deny it. And actually, exactly to be fair, Qur'an couldn't have been delivered to these species, if exist. They hold for themselves their issues and laws, same as to the different approach God sent during Moses time, Jesus's and Muhammad's. Differences are the approach and some aspects relevant to the people of the time. But the main theme would be the same: Worship one God, ¥don't change God's words [but don't mind men's], kill the apostates and traitors, pay your taxes to help the poor, eat good food, and die a believer. Did I miss any highlight?

Could've been different for aliens if they don't eat. Or they eat men.


It would be interesting if sj2k is still here. He could've said something Jewsy but I bet it's gonna be much different. Christian's on the other hand, i'm not saying....but i'm guessing.

About the rich/poor issue: the quantity of responsibility isn't the issue, but the expectations of a very poor person to be as happy with God as a rich person seems quite unfair. Also, I'm not exactly talking of a rich person as someone who made their own riches, but someone who was born into wealth, as compared to someone who was born into dire poverty. A rich person having to sort out his money and have time to reflect on God, and the struggle of absolute poverty to barely survive on scraps of food is hardly the same thing..in fact you're arguing that the rich person has it harder..:notrust

The mentally handicapped issue : I'm not asking whether they'll be given a free ticket to heaven or not..what I'm saying is, if they don't get judged or w/e what is the purpose of them being here? They can't do anything for God right? They probably can't contribute much to society either.

The mother issue : If the mother dies shortly after giving birth, and then the baby dies; I'm asking why was the baby born? It's death could not test anyone and it's birth has killed someone. Did God create this baby and destroy it and send it off to paradise in a totally random way? Why do these souls get it so 'easy'?
Also, the mother did not actually die giving life, she may have died shortly afterwards, maybe even a day. The mother isn't the issue here, but you can't really say she could go to paradise simply for giving birth? What if she was evil her whole life? And the baby can still plead for its mothers entry into paradise? It just got a free ticket for doing nothing ! How much liberties can they take lol.

About animals, consider insects, not the animals that are slaughtered "in the name of God". Why are they here, do they have souls? If not, what are they doing here?

[Goodfellow]

About the rich/poor issue: the quantity of responsibility isn't the issue, but the expectations of a very poor person to be as happy with God as a rich person seems quite unfair. Also, I'm not exactly talking of a rich person as someone who made their own riches, but someone who was born into wealth, as compared to someone who was born into dire poverty. A rich person having to sort out his money and have time to reflect on God, and the struggle of absolute poverty to barely survive on scraps of food is hardly the same thing..in fact you're arguing that the rich person has it harder..:notrust

The mentally handicapped issue : I'm not asking whether they'll be given a free ticket to heaven or not..what I'm saying is, if they don't get judged or w/e what is the purpose of them being here? They can't do anything for God right? They probably can't contribute much to society either.

The mother issue : If the mother dies shortly after giving birth, and then the baby dies; I'm asking why was the baby born? It's death could not test anyone and it's birth has killed someone. Did God create this baby and destroy it and send it off to paradise in a totally random way? Why do these souls get it so 'easy'?
Also, the mother did not actually die giving life, she may have died shortly afterwards, maybe even a day. The mother isn't the issue here, but you can't really say she could go to paradise simply for giving birth? What if she was evil her whole life? And the baby can still plead for its mothers entry into paradise? It just got a free ticket for doing nothing ! How much liberties can they take lol.

About animals, consider insects, not the animals that are slaughtered "in the name of God". Why are they here, do they have souls? If not, what are they doing here?

It's because God has a plan:oh...I'm so tempted to say something mean about gods right now <.<

[Tokyo Jihen]

About the rich/poor issue: the quantity of responsibility isn't the issue, but the expectations of a very poor person to be as happy with God as a rich person seems quite unfair. Also, I'm not exactly talking of a rich person as someone who made their own riches, but someone who was born into wealth, as compared to someone who was born into dire poverty. A rich person having to sort out his money and have time to reflect on God, and the struggle of absolute poverty to barely survive on scraps of food is hardly the same thing..in fact you're arguing that the rich person has it harder..:notrust

You are making a big generalization here. You assume every poor man is having a hard time to be happy with God since they have to strive hard for living, yes? If you didn't make a generalization, then as I said, being wealthy and poor is a test. It's how you handle it and how do you show gratefulness that you're not an animal instead. And yes i did say, the wealthier you are, the harder it is for you in hereafter, because you've had it easier in this life. As to why God put one baby into the poor, the other to the rich, no man can answer that. You might as well question why God created the universe in the first place. And I believe you did.

Here's a story I've been told. It is not exact as I've been told since this was told around 10 years ago. But the point remains. As to the validity and the source, I've yet to reconfirm this, since it provides good picture to me as to why I shouldn't excuse myself from being content with what I have.

On the Judgment Day a person will be called and God will ask, "Why did you leave your prayer?"

The person will answer "It's because of the wealth you've given me that I became to busy to manage it."

And God will ask another question "Are you any richer than my prophet Sulaiman [Solomon]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Another man is asked the same first question. He answered "It's because you gave me good voice that I'm too occupied by it."

And God will ask another question "Are your voice any better than my prophet Dawood [David]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Another man is asked the same first question. He answered "It's because you gave me this illness that I'm too busy finding its cure."

And God will ask another question "Are you any sicker than my prophet Ayub [Jacob]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Another man is asked the same first question. He answered "It's because you gave me good face that I'm too occupied by it."

And God will ask another question "Did you look any better than my prophet Yusuf [Joseph]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Moral is, there's no reason to not submit to God and leave your prayers.


The mentally handicapped issue : I'm not asking whether they'll be given a free ticket to heaven or not..what I'm saying is, if they don't get judged or w/e what is the purpose of them being here? They can't do anything for God right? They probably can't contribute much to society either.

God did not created men, to serve Him something that is of His needs. These people are actually here to help us find our true self. We'll get the reward for helping them. So, it's not for them. It's for us.

The mother issue : If the mother dies shortly after giving birth, and then the baby dies; I'm asking why was the baby born? It's death could not test anyone and it's birth has killed someone. Did God create this baby and destroy it and send it off to paradise in a totally random way? Why do these souls get it so 'easy'?
Also, the mother did not actually die giving life, she may have died shortly afterwards, maybe even a day. The mother isn't the issue here, but you can't really say she could go to paradise simply for giving birth? What if she was evil her whole life? And the baby can still plead for its mothers entry into paradise? It just got a free ticket for doing nothing ! How much liberties can they take lol.

As fenix had pointed out, it's for the mother. His birth opened the opportunity for the mother to get heaven, regardless how bad she was as a person. This is about God's mercy. I can't say for the Jews and Christian for sure, but the God of Islam gives mercy to whomever He pleases, but do not condemn those who do good and believes in him.

If the cause of her death has anything to do with giving birth, regardless when, she gets it. My bad for not explaining in detail what an earthly martyr is. In Islam, a martyr gets heaven with nothing to be accounted for. This explains why those terrorists did what they did since they thought blowing up WTC grants them martyrdom. But that's not the issue here. As i mentioned, but this is in no way limited to, a woman who died giving birth is an earthly martyr. An earthly martyr is exempted from being accountable for sins related to earthly matter, [cheating, stealing etc]. Sins between her and God is still accountable [leaving your prayer, idolatry, etc]. Regardless how evil she was, giving birth is the best thing one can do. That's why Islam hold for a mother 3 times heavier to be responsible for by a son before a father. Therefore, a mother is blessed in this way if she died with no proper chance to repent.

I hope i made it clear as to why a mother who died giving birth had the way better chance to get heaven. And also for a mother who her baby died right after birth. This is just an earthly bad news, but a soothing news for hereafter.

About animals, consider insects, not the animals that are slaughtered "in the name of God". Why are they here, do they have souls? If not, what are they doing here?

Insects are animal. I have answered this and properly read it although I see that my answer contradicts with fenix. As for the time being, you're free to hold any or none of our answer, but I will try to come up with back ups on this one.


HyperKnuckles22,
You have nothing to worry if you present your points well here in the cafe.

[maj1n]

If any parent does that even God would punish him.

God is not a parent, we are not his children, we are his creations.
You can't compare God to a parent, that's comparing two completely different things.

If God is above parents, then he should be above this.

I don't give God free license to do whatever he wants and still call it moral, God in the Bible committed mass genocide, i don't condone that anymore then i condone Hitler's mass killings of Jews.

That you support this IS sick.


Same as above.


Well, he didn't, this world was not created for us to eternally live in, it's a test, and a test must have hardships, if it doesn't then it can't be called a test.

If you want a better world you can find that in heaven.

So a parent can put their child in poverty to test them?

Another sick mode of thinking.


"Moved beyond that already" huh?

The western civilization is not God, they do not compare.

And two, who gave the western civilization the right to say that? Did they somehow get a phone call from God that he has changed his mind?!

If they stop believing that, then that does not mean that God has changed, it just means that the people are corrupting God's religion.

Western civilization has moved far beyond pathetic primitive beliefs of the supernatural that civilizations hundreds of years ago had.

The concept of hell is immoral, i will never support eternal torture just because someone did not believe in me.

Putting evil in the world 'to test' is immoral, i dont support a parent putting a child in poverty no matter what his good intentions were.

As i said, only religion, or indoctrinization, can make people actually justify these silly beliefs.

[Black Wraith]

God is above parents however he is not bound by our morals nor do we give him 'free license to do what he wants' because it is we who should do what our creator has told us to do and not the opposite.

[Goodfellow]

Why do God get to decide? Who gave him the authority:oh?

[Black Wraith]

He is the creator.

Think of it like this, you make an item you have the right to do what you want with it, this is similar(or same) between God and his creations.

Anyway this thread was not made to debate about what Muslims veiw God as.

Where the hell are the Jews and Christians?

[Goodfellow]

He is the creator.

Think of it like this, you make an item you have the right to do what you want with it, this is similar(or same) between God and his creations.

Anyway this thread was not made to debate about what Muslims veiw God as.

Where the hell are the Jews and Christians?

But what if I don't approve of him deciding over me?

I can't see what the point is with being a creator anyway. I mean, if I create anything, it won't be alive, neither will it you know, have any kind of concoince, so it hardly matters to the item what I'm doing with it. It's not like I got some kind of right to do as I please with it. It just can't resist.

So what's the big deal with him being a creator anyway? We got our own free will, no point doing what he wants us to do if he doesn't treat us properly right?

[Black Wraith]

But what if I don't approve of him deciding over me?

I can't see what the point is with being a creator anyway. I mean, if I create anything, it won't be alive, neither will it you know, have any kind of concoince, so it hardly matters to the item what I'm doing with it. It's not like I got some kind of right to do as I please with it. It just can't resist.

So what's the big deal with him being a creator anyway? We got our own free will, no point doing what he wants us to do if he doesn't treat us properly right?
We haven't got a choice in that matter.

He's at a different level to us, so anything he creates will be a heck of a lot more 'advanced' then ours. -This is only an example.

If we do what he wants us to do he will treat us properly, in the next life.

[erictheking]

You are making a big generalization here. You assume every poor man is having a hard time to be happy with God since they have to strive hard for living, yes? If you didn't make a generalization, then as I said, being wealthy and poor is a test. It's how you handle it and how do you show gratefulness that you're not an animal instead. And yes i did say, the wealthier you are, the harder it is for you in hereafter, because you've had it easier in this life. As to why God put one baby into the poor, the other to the rich, no man can answer that. You might as well question why God created the universe in the first place. And I believe you did.

Here's a story I've been told. It is not exact as I've been told since this was told around 10 years ago. But the point remains. As to the validity and the source, I've yet to reconfirm this, since it provides good picture to me as to why I shouldn't excuse myself from being content with what I have.

On the Judgment Day a person will be called and God will ask, "Why did you leave your prayer?"

The person will answer "It's because of the wealth you've given me that I became to busy to manage it."

And God will ask another question "Are you any richer than my prophet Sulaiman [Solomon]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Another man is asked the same first question. He answered "It's because you gave me good voice that I'm too occupied by it."

And God will ask another question "Are your voice any better than my prophet Dawood [David]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Another man is asked the same first question. He answered "It's because you gave me this illness that I'm too busy finding its cure."

And God will ask another question "Are you any sicker than my prophet Ayub [Jacob]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Another man is asked the same first question. He answered "It's because you gave me good face that I'm too occupied by it."

And God will ask another question "Did you look any better than my prophet Yusuf [Joseph]?" And the man is sent to hell.

Moral is, there's no reason to not submit to God and leave your prayers.




God did not created men, to serve Him something that is of His needs. These people are actually here to help us find our true self. We'll get the reward for helping them. So, it's not for them. It's for us.



As fenix had pointed out, it's for the mother. His birth opened the opportunity for the mother to get heaven, regardless how bad she was as a person. This is about God's mercy. I can't say for the Jews and Christian for sure, but the God of Islam gives mercy to whomever He pleases, but do not condemn those who do good and believes in him.

If the cause of her death has anything to do with giving birth, regardless when, she gets it. My bad for not explaining in detail what an earthly martyr is. In Islam, a martyr gets heaven with nothing to be accounted for. This explains why those terrorists did what they did since they thought blowing up WTC grants them martyrdom. But that's not the issue here. As i mentioned, but this is in no way limited to, a woman who died giving birth is an earthly martyr. An earthly martyr is exempted from being accountable for sins related to earthly matter, [cheating, stealing etc]. Sins between her and God is still accountable [leaving your prayer, idolatry, etc]. Regardless how evil she was, giving birth is the best thing one can do. That's why Islam hold for a mother 3 times heavier to be responsible for by a son before a father. Therefore, a mother is blessed in this way if she died with no proper chance to repent.

I hope i made it clear as to why a mother who died giving birth had the way better chance to get heaven. And also for a mother who her baby died right after birth. This is just an earthly bad news, but a soothing news for hereafter.



Insects are animal. I have answered this and properly read it although I see that my answer contradicts with fenix. As for the time being, you're free to hold any or none of our answer, but I will try to come up with back ups on this one.


HyperKnuckles22,
You have nothing to worry if you present your points well here in the cafe.

1) About the "generalization". I'm not suggesting that everyone goes through these struggles, I'm using examples of conditions that some people go through, and comparing them with a vast contrast of the quality of life that richer people have. Here again, it is not a question of laziness in working or whatever, one is born into one condition, and another is born into another.

2) The issue of the mother - It boils down to having to be explained by arbitrary mercy on God's part. I can understand the concept of mercy coming from God, but when done so arbitrarily appears to lose purpose or reason.

3) Mentally handicapped - I figured someone would say they are simply here for us to help. The nature of some of these mental disabilities are such that they cannot be helped by us, or anyone. Some people go totally insane, for very vague unexplainable reasons and do not (or cannot, rather) respond to our 'attempts to help'.

This brings me to another question : would a mentally insane person be sent to hell and punished if they murdered someone?




.



.

[Black Wraith]

This brings me to another question : would a mentally insane person be sent to hell and punished if they murdered someone?

No. He has a very strong excuse because he was not in control of his actions or did not know it was wrong. He is what Muslims call Mazoor/excusd and is free from any obligations and duties as a Human or a Muslim.

[erictheking]

No. He has a very strong excuse because he was not in control of his actions or did not know it was wrong. He is what Muslims call Mazoor/excusd and is free from any obligations and duties as a Human or a Muslim.

OK..assuming that he would not be held accountable for his actions, what is the fate of his victim? Their life still ended in a bad way. Perhaps the victim would have been able to repent of any evils they have done, had they been given the opportunity to live longer.

[The American Afro]

Im a christian but i still have a question anyways, if somone can answer. Why did God create the devil if he knew he was going to betray(since he is all knowing omnipotent) him and cause evil? Why does god create people who he knows before he creates them that there going to suffer eternal damnation. In other words, whats the use of creating someone who's going straight to hell. U already know they are not going to believe in u and are going to evil deeds. Why create sadistic people who tortures others?Why do innocent people die in such horrible ways? such as "getting all fingers chopped of one at a time, or someone to rape you and bitchslap u and not feed you for weeks in thier basement till you pass away"?

[maj1n]

God is above parents however he is not bound by our morals nor do we give him 'free license to do what he wants' because it is we who should do what our creator has told us to do and not the opposite.
My parents created me, is it moral if i kill someone if they tell me too?

God may be above parents, but your rationale 'if someone created you, you MUST do what they say' works for parents.

Neither you nor anyone on this thread can rationalise why it is immoral to say, kill if my parents say so, or why it is immoral if my parents put me in poverty to 'test' me, yet it is MORAL if God does it.

It isn't moral, indoctrinization has made your morality so shaky that what is wrong in day to day life is right if religion and/or God is involved.

[Goodfellow]

We haven't got a choice in that matter.

He's at a different level to us, so anything he creates will be a heck of a lot more 'advanced' then ours. -This is only an example.

If we do what he wants us to do he will treat us properly, in the next life.

How come we not have choice? What is he doing to stop us from doing what we feel is right ourselves?

[cape]

How come we not have choice? What is he doing to stop us from doing what we feel is right ourselves?
Oh, nothing is stopping you....

And that is the real test, if you do what you think is right, and ignore what He said is right, you might or might not be punished in this life, but in the afterlife don't expect it to go by easily, and don't blame anyone but yourself.




...............................

[maj1n]

Oh, nothing is stopping you....

And that is the real test, if you do what you think is right, and ignore what He said is right, you might or might not be punished in this life, but in the afterlife don't expect it to go by easily, and don't blame anyone but yourself.




...............................
Going to hell at least for the Abrahamic religions depends on your belief in God, not your moral/immoral actions.

[Goodfellow]

Oh, nothing is stopping you....

And that is the real test, if you do what you think is right, and ignore what He said is right, you might or might not be punished in this life, but in the afterlife don't expect it to go by easily, and don't blame anyone but yourself.




...............................

Actually, I'll blame God because he's such a stick in the mud:nod
Nothing he's said to have done has in any way convinced me that he got monopoly on the truth:nod

Neither has anything he done in any way convinced me that he has any kind of claim regarding his right to steer my life:nod

[TiGel2.]

This is directed at adherents of Christianity, Islam & Judaism.

How do you explain the differences that exist between the people on the planet? Why is one child born poor and unhealthy and another born healthy and rich? Why is it that different people have naturally different dispositions?

Also, consider a situation. A woman is pregnant in some deserted place..the baby is putting the mother's life at serious risk, and the mother dies shortly after giving birth to the baby. There is no-one else around. The newborn baby then soon dies. The baby's death cannot be used as a guinea pig as a 'test of faith' for anyone. What's the point of God doing this?

Also, if non-humans are soulless, why do they exist? For man to eat? Disregarding the moral implications of this, why does such a massively diverse range of life exist?

In fact, why create such a massive universe when the only important part of it is Earth? The existence of the Earth does not require all that unnecessary empty space. Or do all those stars exist so we have something to look at when we look up in the skies at night?

First of all, those three religions are not the only adherents to the Abrahamic God. Next I will answer your questions to the best of my personal ability.

1. What is there to explain? People are born in all different kinds of situations, their tests so to speak, are relative to where they stand. It is easy for a Rich person to give 10,000 dollars to charity, or to their faith, but that may be only 0.1 percent of their actual wealth, while one who is born poorer may only be able to give 100 dollars but that is 10 percent of their wealth. Obviously the one who donates 100 dollars has more significance.

Or one who is born in a poverty stricken neighborhood in which a great majority turn to gangs/ illegal activity in order to attempt to rise above their surroundings. Perhaps the person who ignores this and stayed away from the violent and illegal activity, but otherwise leads a completely forgettable life, has achieved as much as one who is born in the right circumstances and achieves a much more visual good.

How much one can do, is absolutely relative to the situation they are put in. It is what they can achieve with what they are given. Not how much is achieved in the eyes of society.

2. I do not think God actively does something like that, we must remember that it is a part of the cycle of life and it is adherent to Universal Laws that exist on this plane. God does not interfere with the Free Will that Man has, that led her to where she was, either by force from others, or by her own volition.

3. Non Humans exist because they were part of the evolutionary process that brought life and eventually Man to this planet. The same way that Universally all things must go through stages of creation, and then decomposition. Just as we see in space, things that were on track to become Stars but never reached their place because of different reasons, or partly formed Galaxies, etc etc. They are their because they are part of the process.

4. I personally think their is a great chance that their is other intelligent life existent in the Universe. The Universe was meant for all who exist within it, and if one believes in the Abrahamic God, then all who exist within it are creatures of his creation.

The End.

[cape]

Going to hell at least for the Abrahamic religions depends on your belief in God, not your moral/immoral actions.
That may be in the current christianity (don't know about the jews), but in Islam, it is very basic that Islam is belief and action/work, if your actions do not correspond with your belief then don't expect that your belief alone will be of much use to you.

Actually, I'll blame God because he's such a stick in the mud
Nothing he's said to have done has in any way convinced me that he got monopoly on the truth

Neither has anything he done in any way convinced me that he has any kind of claim regarding his right to steer my life
Your are a Muslim aren't you?
Didn't you ever read the Qur'an?

The concept of hell is immoral, i will never support eternal torture just because someone did not believe in me.
God won't wait for your support.

The religion (Islam) didn't come with the things that we want to be the truth, but with things that are the truth. Satisfying whoever it satisfies, and upseting whoever it upsets.

God in the Bible committed mass genocide, i don't condone that anymore then i condone Hitler's mass killings of Jews.
Well, I don't believe in the Bible anyway.

Western civilization has moved far beyond pathetic primitive beliefs of the supernatural that civilizations hundreds of years ago had.
And nor do we believe in "pathetic primitive beliefs of the supernatural", but it depends on what your definition of "pathetic primitive beliefs of the supernatural" is...

My parents created me, is it moral if i kill someone if they tell me too?
Your parents did NOT create you, imagine how stupid a parent would look pointing at his son and saying: "Look, that's my creation."

If he was their creation, he would be as they have "created" him to be.

Putting evil in the world 'to test' is immoral, i dont support a parent putting a child in poverty no matter what his good intentions were.
You can't compare God to a parent here, there is no resemblance.


Apparently the main problem here (from all that you and others have been saying) is that your concept of God is completely different from what the concept of God in Islam is.



...............................

[maj1n]

That may be in the current christianity (don't know about the jews), but in Islam, it is very basic that Islam is belief and action/work, if your actions do not correspond with your belief then don't expect that your belief alone will be of much use to you.

edit: true.

Ie. if you apostate from Islam, you go to hell.
You are also supposed to be killed.


The religion (Islam) didn't come with the things that we want to be the truth, but with things that are the truth. Satisfying whoever it satisfies, and upseting whoever it upsets.

No, Allah did, Hell is immoral, eternal torture is immoral.

What is most sick is religious people accept it.


And nor do we believe in "pathetic primitive beliefs of the supernatural", but it depends on what your definition of "pathetic primitive beliefs of the supernatural" is...

If you believe in Hell you do.


Your parents did NOT create you, imagine how stupid a parent would look pointing at his son and saying: "Look, that's my creation."

LOL, my parents DIDNT create me?

Are you kidding?!

Yes, my parents created me.

See, my father at some point had sex with my mum, from this union, i came about.

I didnt come from storks.


You can't compare God to a parent here, there is no resemblance.

I can, the rationale is 'if something creates you, you should worship and obey it'.

My parents created me, if they told me to kill, should i do it?

yes/no?

[Tokyo Jihen]

maj1n,

are you using artificial intelligence? you are asking a question that requires reasoning to answer, but you require only binary type logic. i think you should upgrade. AI now can reason.

that is actually a stupid question. also, if your parents created you, then they should be able to re-create you. the exact same you. now....can they?

no? so by your logic [if it's not one, it must be the other], sounds to me like you're an accident rather than a creation.

your origin made you a skeptic. you took verses out of context, which is understandable. but it's not like we are preaching to you in the 1st place. you came and ask, and then the attitude.

now i'm not being defensive, but you are just playing with words.

this thread is turning into something else.

[erictheking]

First of all, those three religions are not the only adherents to the Abrahamic God. Next I will answer your questions to the best of my personal ability.

1. What is there to explain? People are born in all different kinds of situations, their tests so to speak, are relative to where they stand. It is easy for a Rich person to give 10,000 dollars to charity, or to their faith, but that may be only 0.1 percent of their actual wealth, while one who is born poorer may only be able to give 100 dollars but that is 10 percent of their wealth. Obviously the one who donates 100 dollars has more significance.

Or one who is born in a poverty stricken neighborhood in which a great majority turn to gangs/ illegal activity in order to attempt to rise above their surroundings. Perhaps the person who ignores this and stayed away from the violent and illegal activity, but otherwise leads a completely forgettable life, has achieved as much as one who is born in the right circumstances and achieves a much more visual good.

How much one can do, is absolutely relative to the situation they are put in. It is what they can achieve with what they are given. Not how much is achieved in the eyes of society.

2. I do not think God actively does something like that, we must remember that it is a part of the cycle of life and it is adherent to Universal Laws that exist on this plane. God does not interfere with the Free Will that Man has, that led her to where she was, either by force from others, or by her own volition.

3. Non Humans exist because they were part of the evolutionary process that brought life and eventually Man to this planet. The same way that Universally all things must go through stages of creation, and then decomposition. Just as we see in space, things that were on track to become Stars but never reached their place because of different reasons, or partly formed Galaxies, etc etc. They are their because they are part of the process.

4. I personally think their is a great chance that their is other intelligent life existent in the Universe. The Universe was meant for all who exist within it, and if one believes in the Abrahamic God, then all who exist within it are creatures of his creation.

The End.

What other religious followers adhere to the Abrahamic God?

Rastafaris? Bahai? These probably just barely qualify if at all, coupled with the fact that I assumed there were none on these forums.

1. There is much to explain. In a belief of living only once, the hugely contrasting living situations around the world bring up a lot of questions. Ultimately, your opinion is that God created everyone differently and in different situations as a test, and so surely with God being totally just, all the different living situations balance into a perfect equilibrium..this must be necessarily true to maintain the idea of a perfectly just God. You've said that about the rich & poor, but as someone said before, in the Abrahamic faiths, belief in God can ultimately cure everything, all the sins, while all the good deeds in the world amount to nothing but a ticket to eternal damnation if the person doesn't believe in God. So the issue of where people's births determine their morality is of secondary importance in this situation, primarily we should question why some people have harsher living conditions to bear than others, which would probably make it harder or easier to believe in God.

2. I think you're misunderstanding, I'm not saying why would God "make them suffer", because there's worse suffering than that existing in the world right now..what I'm saying is, why would God arrange for the baby to die in such a way. It is born, and then dies. It serves no purpose basically, for God to create a baby, have its mother die shortly after and then have the baby die.
Usually the purpose of newborn babies dying in the Abrahamic faiths, is that its death is a kind of test to its loved ones, to test their faith. When the baby has no loved ones, why kill it? The mother will already be dead by the time the baby dies..why create a life in that situation? "Allowing it to enter paradise" is a weak justification of the act, but it still doesn't explain the purpose of it.

3. So then, you don't believe that God created these creatures from 'dust' or some other material..evolution would explain how they're here, but God allowed evolution to take place, i.e. He must have chosen evolution as His method of putting all these animals here, He was obviously not restricted to evolution since there are countless other ways He could have created.
The point is, why are they all here and existing as part of God's plan? Our purpose is to engage in a servant-master (Islam) or son-father (Christianity) relationship, but what do the animals do? They don't have freewill apparently, so their actions in life are meaningless. It's debatable to these religions whether they even have souls..what purpose do they serve as part of God's creation?

4. OK, that would explain the need for a vast creation; but that brings up the question of why these other life-forms weren't mentioned in revelation. The revelation apparently showed the creation of the universe, it would make sense to mention the kind of life-forms that exist, or the planets which have life. Wasn't Earth the only planet mentioned in all Abrahamic scriptures as having life, and HUMANS being the 'best of all creation?"
Lucifer/Shaitan was told to bow to Adam, not some alien life-form. Aren't humans supposed to have this distinct characteristic of freewill in all of creation?

[TiGel2.]

What other religious followers adhere to the Abrahamic God?

Rastafaris? Bahai? These probably just barely qualify if at all, coupled with the fact that I assumed there were none on these forums.

1. There is much to explain. In a belief of living only once, the hugely contrasting living situations around the world bring up a lot of questions. Ultimately, your opinion is that God created everyone differently and in different situations as a test, and so surely with God being totally just, all the different living situations balance into a perfect equilibrium..this must be necessarily true to maintain the idea of a perfectly just God. You've said that about the rich & poor, but as someone said before, in the Abrahamic faiths, belief in God can ultimately cure everything, all the sins, while all the good deeds in the world amount to nothing but a ticket to eternal damnation if the person doesn't believe in God. So the issue of where people's births determine their morality is of secondary importance in this situation, primarily we should question why some people have harsher living conditions to bear than others, which would probably make it harder or easier to believe in God.

2. I think you're misunderstanding, I'm not saying why would God "make them suffer", because there's worse suffering than that existing in the world right now..what I'm saying is, why would God arrange for the baby to die in such a way. It is born, and then dies. It serves no purpose basically, for God to create a baby, have its mother die shortly after and then have the baby die.
Usually the purpose of newborn babies dying in the Abrahamic faiths, is that its death is a kind of test to its loved ones, to test their faith. When the baby has no loved ones, why kill it? The mother will already be dead by the time the baby dies..why create a life in that situation? "Allowing it to enter paradise" is a weak justification of the act, but it still doesn't explain the purpose of it.

3. So then, you don't believe that God created these creatures from 'dust' or some other material..evolution would explain how they're here, but God allowed evolution to take place, i.e. He must have chosen evolution as His method of putting all these animals here, He was obviously not restricted to evolution since there are countless other ways He could have created.
The point is, why are they all here and existing as part of God's plan? Our purpose is to engage in a servant-master (Islam) or son-father (Christianity) relationship, but what do the animals do? They don't have freewill apparently, so their actions in life are meaningless. It's debatable to these religions whether they even have souls..what purpose do they serve as part of God's creation?

4. OK, that would explain the need for a vast creation; but that brings up the question of why these other life-forms weren't mentioned in revelation. The revelation apparently showed the creation of the universe, it would make sense to mention the kind of life-forms that exist, or the planets which have life. Wasn't Earth the only planet mentioned in all Abrahamic scriptures as having life, and HUMANS being the 'best of all creation?"
Lucifer/Shaitan was told to bow to Adam, not some alien life-form. Aren't humans supposed to have this distinct characteristic of freewill in all of creation?

Yes, I am a member of the Baha'i Faith, I do find it a little insulting for you to say that it barely qualifies, but perhaps I misunderstand you.

Once again I will be reply to you in my personal capacity.

1. Yes I do believe that faith and service to God can help Man, but at the same time, attempting to discern what God is and what He feels is Just, is nothing that is possible by the means of Man. We have mere glimpses and vague ideas of what is the actuality of God.

While I do not believe in Damnation in the fundamental understanding currently such as Hell etc, rather each Human being is born with a soul, and they are given a chance to develop and evolve that soul while on Earth. Therefore there are different way to develop ones soul, and how far one needs to go to reach a certain point. While I will not presume to know what God Thinks, nor am I thorough in my knowledge of my religions teachings on the subject, my personal point of view is such as this. Harsher conditions that challenge ones belief in God are merely different routes to the same problems that all people face. All people face adversity, it may not appear as adverse to you or I, but it does to they. Perhaps one persons route to growth is devoting their time to the betterment of humanity, while another's is merely maintaining their faith in God. If anything, those born with means have it harder to grow as spiritual beings than those who are not, because of what usually comes with money yet their capacity for bettering Man is also greater, hence when they do not exercise it, that failure of responsibility is greater than one with lesser means who is unable to do what is needed. I believe that is what my faith teaches anyways. Another teaching is that one can not know what is truly in ones heart until the second they die.

^I am sure this is confusing because I get confused as I read it, but w/e =o.

2. I do think you are misunderstanding me, I am saying that God did not arrange for them to die in such a manner, that would interfere with Free Will that is obviously a nesscary component in the Abrahamic Faiths. In that God does actively have His Hand in the World. That baby was created because his mother had sex with someone, and died because something happened to cause the mother to be in a unfortunate situation, not because God willed the baby into the mothers stomach then willed the mother into a secluded part of the desert. Merely because Dogmas of people have interfered with the essential teachings available by these faiths, does not make them cannon, they are merely filler put in by the stupid animation team (man). (Oh I am good, using Anime references in philosophy.) A baby dies because it got sick, not because God wills it too to test ones faith.

3. As we see, evolution appears to be necessary as part of the creation of our Universe, it is seen in all aspects. It is one of the fundamental building blocks of explaining the Universe. The Universe adheres to universal laws that it does not deviate from, perhaps in the infinitely complex universe, evolution in the manner it has come to be known is necessary.

4. The revelations were written 2000 years ago. Meant for the time and people of then. If something was written about aliens or the such, do you really think anyone at that period would take it seriously? No, not to mention that it does not accomplish anything in the purposes of religion, rather it is an unnecessary detail, especially in that time. Hell, look how we ostracize different types of people for believing in specific Aliens and the such, how do you think it would be taken 2000 years ago, when people still thought that the earth was the center of the universe and that the earth was flat. Do you start explaining astronomy to them and science and physics etc etc? No of course not, that is not the purpose of religion. The revelations were speaking of the Earth as it was known at the time, all of known existence centered on Earth. Therefore when it speaks of Creation etc, speaking of solely the earth. And on Adam and Eve and Satan etc etc, I believe they were symbolic, metaphors meant to explain morals, not meant to be taken as scientific fact.

[The American Afro]

Why in the bible there are no dinosaurs. They exist dont they?