Round 2: Shinn vs Kira

[dspr8_rugged]

Remember the last time I asked this poll question on who will win between these two protagonists from both SEED sagas? Kira won the last poll.

But this time, I decided to create another poll (since I closed the poll on the other one, but this time, it would be 'til infinity...) for us to think and decide who will emerge as the victor.

Shinn as of the recent episodes has improved his piloting skills, and without relying much on SEED Mode, while Kira hasn't lost his piloting touch. And with the advent of these two getting new Gundams, would there be a change on who will have an advantage on whom?

What do you guys think?

[Mindless]

I still think Kira would emerge as winner. Why?

Kira has seen more horrible things compared to Shinn, eventhough Shinn lost his family right infront of him. Kira has seen more battle fields than Shinn. Kira always fought at a disadvantage (in numbers). He battled against Aegis, Duel, Buster and Blitz and the same time and still he managed to come out on top. I doubt Shinn could do that. He couldn't even scratch Chaos or Neo's Windam MS.

Kira also has a superior suit compared to Shinn, at least when comparing Freedom with the Impulse. Freedom vs. Destiny we can't really tell. Freedom is a heavy-support / melee / mid-range gundam. Destiny also seems to be quite an adaptable suit as it has both a beamsword, a positron cannon and a normal rifle. But I still think Freedom is superior.

But as it stands now it seems Kira is getting a new gundam in Destiny. Wonder how that happens? I don't think he'll be defeated by Shinn at least. But somehow he get's wrecked.

And I don't think we can compare the Freedom Mk.II and Destiny in battle as I don't think they will fight eachother ever again after the Suez battle in ep24/25. Where Kira supposedly will destroy the Minervas Tannhauser positron cannon and kill Haine.

Later in the anime, I bet we will see something similar to the Kira + Athrun batteling against the EA and stuff, but instead it will be Kira + Shinn fighting them. And the Minerva will become the next Archangel. But who knows? We aren't even half way trough the anime yet. Alot of things can happen, and will happen.

[Chillin]

I don't know. Kira I think will always be the better pilot, but Shinn's Destiny Gundam might just have enough power to make up for that. Gotta wait and see

[BattousaiMS]

If someone dosn't give Kira the "You killed his family" joke, then Kira will own Shinn. I mean seriously we already know Asuran is a much better pilot then Shinn, even Rey Za is (except when shinn goes SEED mode) , so Kira is like out of his league.

[Jh1stgen]

Granted ... as much as Shinn has improved. He's still in a different league compare to Kira

[TDW]

I dont even want to have to justify myself. Kira would own Shin any day.

[Son_Pan]

i voted for Kira. Kira is WAY better than Shinn.

[Hayate]

I voted for Kira too, though I wouldn't be surprised if Shinn could evenly match him one day with a new gundam and better knowledge of his Seed mode. So, for now. . Kira.

[Hansel]

Not only that, Freedom is pure nuclear power baby. Keep Shinn away from Minerva long enough and his phase shift goes down.

[Toshigo]

Seriously Kira is the Ultimate coordinator! Shinn maybe their going to reveal some big secret about his creation but for now kira pwnz. Oh and impulse i'nst powered by nuclear but destiny will probably be.. don't forget that zaft invented that technologie and shinn is with zaft...

todokeee!!!

[LOLZILLA]

I love both characters but Kira is much more experienced and he is the "ultimate" coordinator so yeah. Shinn in the Impulse cannot touch Freedom.

[Jh1stgen]

He couldn't even touch Neo =/

[Orihime]

:P Kira for me. The reason? XD I just really really really dislike Shinn. XD <--biased, but whatever.

Well, and I don't know. Experience-wise, Kira definitely has more experience, cause I think Shinn signed up for military after the war or whatever? /me not sure about this one since I havne't been watching. Anyway, no one can beat the original angst master. >D At least he got some while he was angsting (Fllay, anyone?) while Shinn just... angsts. :P *runs*

[Inactive Setsuna]

Kira is definitely more experienced and skilled than Shinn! I can't wait to see Yamato fights again but seems like it won't happen anytime soon! :sad

[Mith252000]

Err, I believe in the next episode, he would be fighting. Anyway, I am one of the few who votes for Shin. No reason whatsoever. Support the underdog. :P

[Mu Dada]

Kira hands down, Shinn acts too much like a punk, Kira needs to put him in his place already :)

[Habuneeku]

Kira:
Has Freedom, the 00ber Gundam
Is more experianced
Already got through the worst part of his "I failed to protect people so I'll go overboard with protecting who I have now and be easily manipulated" phase
Is more likable

Shinn:
Has Impulse, which doesn't seem to be THAT much better, and a new Gundam which I haven't seen yet since I haven't gotten that far
Is a punk
Is still in his "over-protective" phase

Winner:Kira

[Jh1stgen]

After watching episode 23. It is safe to say that the difference in power between Kira and Shinn is that there is a large gap between em' when they're in seed mode. So Kira>>>>Shinn

[Wren]

After watching episode 23. It is safe to say that the difference in power between Kira and Shinn is that there is a large gap between em' when they're in seed mode. So Kira>>>>Shinn

this doenst even have to be justified.....shinn needs a LONG way to go before he is anywhere near close to touching Kira.

[me_is_david]

as much as would love Shinn to be a good pilot
he isn't compared to Kira

he isn't even in the same league... but maybe once Shinn gets more experience and Destiny it would be more of a fair fight

we haven't seen what Destiny can do... it has a cannon and a sword... and if the pictures are official... and shining finger type thing or shining palm i guess haha

[dspr8_rugged]

Here's what I think.

Give Shinn a little credit. Apparently, Shinn is not getting there yet. He isn't kickass so far. He's still miles behind Kira in terms of piloting ability. Give him a few years more (though I don't want another SEED sequel to come out...), and he can be as kickass as Kira. So far, Kira will definitely own him even how hard he fights against him.

One factor is that Kira is still using Freedom (in which, seeing it as cannon fodder doesn't add to Freedom's "cool factor"...). Though I don't think anything would change if he pilots a standard MS. Not to mention, Kira hasn't piloted any MS aside from a Gundam.

[koopo]

Is it just me or did Kira seam just a little bit to "powerfull" in the newest episode.

[Bronwen]

Is it just me or did Kira seam just a little bit to "powerfull" in the newest episode.

In comparison to what he did in the latter half of SEED? I don't think so. Did people simply forget what he did in SEED? If I didn't know any better, I say he was getting a bit rusty. :laugh

He simply is doing what he intended to do when he agreed to interfere in that battle just to appease his sister.

I could've sworn Shinn was a second generation coordinator...

As for the topic at hand, I seriously like both character enough. Admittedly, Kira I like more because I saw more of him to like and I can easily sympathize in comparison to Shinn.

For this battle I still say Kira, simply cause 23 simply reminds us that he is far from being like any other coordinator. He is more. :smile-big Andy did say that Kira was an elite among coordinator pilots and 23 just proved he is.

[Hansel]

Is it just me or did Kira seam just a little bit to "powerfull" in the newest episode.

Hells no man. He just proved that he is the best pilot. In order to take on everyone like he did without killing any of them is much better than anything Shinn can do right now. Kira is fucking awesome.

[NaraShikamaru]

Well i dont care if the judging has been decided but Shinn Asuka would win hands down... Kira would get 2 cocky and f**k up then shinn and impulse would come and and destroy freedom and destroy kira...its gonna happen! Trust me it will happen just wait in the upcoming episodes

[Toshi Umezawa]

I would say Kira because ; 1) He is a more powerful form of Coordinator 2) He has more control over "seed" mode 3) And in the latest episode he disarmed Shinn before he knew what happened.

[Chillin]

I think I'm going to go on ahead and vote for Kira. I don't think it was ever an issue or a point in this story for Shinn to surpass/beat Kira in battle. For instance Amuro and Char were still better pilots than Kamille, and Haman (a villain of sorts) was better than even Scirocco (the main villain) by the end of Zeta. Shinn was never meant to be a better pilot than Kira, Destiny is about something totally different. Shinn doesn't have to be the best pilot or have the best mobile suit to be the main character and fight the main villain. Even by the end of Destiny I highly doubt he will have surpassed Kira, especially if Kira gets this Nu Freedom. They may be even if Destiny is stronger than Freedom/Nu Freedom. But overall ability and the fact that Kira is the ultimate coordinator should give him the slight edge. Take Amuro and Char in CCA. Char had the slightly better mobile suit, but Amuro's abilites made the difference.

Unless Shinn's Destiny is a much better suit than whatever Kira is piloting be it Freedom or something else, I don't see how Shinn will win. Like I said though this anime isn't about Shinn being better than Kira. The writers would have some serious explaining to do if all of a sudden Shinn were to own Kira. I'll go on and say it would be one of the most ludicrous things we would ever see in the Seed storyline if that were to happen unless Shinn is like ultimate coordinator #2 fresh out the factory. Like I said I highly doubt they will even fight again, so my vote goes to Kira.

[Baka-Sama]

Well of course it's going to be Kira. I mean think about it. Kira has the ability to weild SEED when he feels like it. Shinn has to become very angry. Kira has more control over his emotions since Gundam Seed, and Shinn is just way to reckless. Shinn has a very powerful Gundam but he cant use it as well. and if Shinn is gonna continue and get stronger, so is Kira! Kira is just way to strong and it would be scary if he were to become stronger. but i hafta say. Kira did wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better at the battle at Jakin Due when he fought Providence. Now that my friend was a battle to remember. and while i was reading pplz's comment bout this Thread i read that "Kira is gonna get a new Gundam" when is that happening?

[NaraShikamaru]

Shinn would wipe the floor with Kira...Kira would get way 2 cocky and think he is easy to beat... Shinn would turn the battle around and destroy Kira...the only reason KIra disarmed Shinn was because Shinn was un battle and Kira at the time had SEED and was much stronger at that moment...If there were no distractions for Shinn he would of dodged easy

[Baka-Sama]

umm not really. The kira in gundam seed destiny is not even close to cocky. he was NEVER cocky, besides Shinn is way to reckless and will go on charging at fredom without even aim'ing. kira would haf kicked shinn's ass even without the seed mode.

[Eupackardia]

Temper, experience and control is what makes us win...Shinn has neither. Thats why I say Kira Yamato will win. (just like in a go game héhé)

[triggerc]

The gap is too great, not just in abilities, but also in their battle experience. Kira is meant to be the Urahara Kisuke of GSD. the one that everyone tries to reach but never gets to. i guess to defeat kira is like to obtain the holy grail.

[soso]

episode 30 or 31 is the big battle!!! Kiras going to whoop shinn!

[Baka-Sama]

......ummmmm not really. Shinn and Kira are gonna team up and fight Destory, so anyway bac to the thread. if u wanna talk about episode 30 and 31 then talk about it in the Gundam SEED DESTINY thread.

[Mith252000]

episode 30 or 31 is the big battle!!! Kiras going to whoop shinn!

Err, well, episode 28 is already the big battle. Kira was surprised when Shin dodged his attack. Then Athrun spoils it by attacking Kira. :P

[Emerald]

I'm going for Kira no matter what. He's one good Coordinator. Shinn might not stand a chance with kira's Freedom.
Kira has more exprience then shinn...
and kira did'nt mean to kill shinn's family on purpose....

Is it just me or did Kira seam just a little bit to "powerfull" in the newest episode.

Kira is getting "crazily" powerfull....

[Gun-damn]

kira>shin

why?
1)kira is older than shinn, shinns still some brat with a big toy, kiras mature(now)
2)piloting ability, kira was able to defend against 4 gundams wen he started off in seed, shinns having trouble with 1 and 3 at most, although the latest ep did surprise me, but shinn still suks
3)i dont like shinns atitude towards everything, the kids got problems, ok, ur family got killed before u while u where fetchin a mobile fone, so what, kira had to live with the fact that his whole colony got 0wned and he let a spaceship of civilians die.

thres probably other things, but the most thing that pisses me off about shinn is that hes a brat, even kira wasnt like that.

[Emerald]

kira>shin

why?
1)kira is older than shinn, shinns still some brat with a big toy, kiras mature(now)
2)piloting ability, kira was able to defend against 4 gundams wen he started off in seed, shinns having trouble with 1 and 3 at most, although the latest ep did surprise me, but shinn still suks
3)i dont like shinns atitude towards everything, the kids got problems, ok, ur family got killed before u while u where fetchin a mobile fone, so what, kira had to live with the fact that his whole colony got 0wned and he let a spaceship of civilians die.

thres probably other things, but the most thing that pisses me off about shinn is that hes a brat, even kira wasnt like that.


Totally agrees!! Way to go! Kira is my choice :amuse

[senarious]

I voted for kira too.
but isn't shinn new "main" character of gundam seed destiny. He will change maybe but inorder to become "true main character" he must kill kira and it is impossible right now

[Emerald]

I voted for kira too.
but isn't shinn new "main" character of gundam seed destiny. He will change maybe but inorder to become "true main character" he must kill kira and it is impossible right now


gasp... kira must'nt die... ... I thought athrun was also one of the main character

[senarious]

hahah I agree Athrun is one of the main characters and don't worry he can't die (so many girls fall in love to him) but maybe he will be worst than death (heheh mad cagalli is really something I guess)

[Mindless]

Wow. This thread got more one-sided than expected. 41 - 4, in Kira's favour. Geez.

But I guess it's as the people have voted. Kira is the stronger pilot, he has a stronger sense of justice and whatnot. But I get the feeling that Shinn is somehow special, that his 'SEED' is somehow more powerful than Kira's, so maybe later in Destiny, Shinn might actually rival Kira's strenght.

[3rdStrike]

Well I voted for Kira.

Why?
Simply he is a Super Coordinator.
He is mankind's dream and future. =D


Shinn... is just a lil punk coordinator...

[dspr8_rugged]

I haven't voted yet since I still want to see more from Shinn. So far, he still isn't the character that I (or even we) expect for a series protagonist. Maybe in the later episodes, he can show something that can change our thoughts.

So far, as my opinion is concerned, Kira has the upper hand right now.

[Basilimux]

I voted for kira. Freedom is such a great gundam. :D

[Norb]

kira. Afterall he's the ultimate coordinator =)

[ssouske]

Im still going for kira... eventhough shinn may be the "Ultimate Coordinator ver. 2.0" (just speculating coz the seed that appears with shinn is colored red and kira gets the old blue/purple seed :smile-big ) kira will still have the upper hand in the battle coz kira has experience, power, & exeptional piloting skills. Kira will just demolish impulse... i think kira can even defeat shinn even if kira is somehow forced to use Strike Rouge... but the catch is Strike Rouge must be equipped with the ISWP striker pack... hehehe! :laugh Kira definitely owns shinn...

On the other hand, should shinn mature and he be able to control his seed mode, then he can beat kira... that is if he is in the strike rouge... :laugh But kira in Strike freedom let alone Freedom? Shin will definitely be "murdered" by kira! :amuse

[rangeofhakke]

Kira is the ultimate coordinator, he has the best gundam (lets not try to count how many guns he has, he has two light sabers, and a dual lightsaber, his gundam can stop nuclear missles, and well it's basically the ultimate gundam.), he is way more skilled then shinn, and shinn is just a punk ass who does not deserve the right to be the main character. Shinn's major battle should be against asuthrun, because he does not stand a chance against kira yamato....the uber coordinator.

[Ganj]

My vote goes to Kira and the (Strike) Freedom. Even though in the last episode, "Phase 34: Nightmare", Shinn (piloting the Force Impulse) destroyed the Freedom, Kira wasn't trying to kill Shinn, nor did he ever have ANY intention of doing so. Granted, most might call Kira's stance on death foolish, but you have to think, "Why kill really?" War is war, I know, but wars aren't won simply by whom ever can spill the most blood. But that's another story....However, on Kira's defense, it take extraordinary skill and abilities to dismember a mobile suit WITHOUT aiming for the cockpit. Throughout all of his battles, including the Destroy GUNDAM, Kira has never targeted the cockpit. Shinn, on the other hand, relies solely on his abilities to inflict overall damage, a very reckless and unrefined style really. Going back to the basics, throughout their first battle, Kira had many opportunities to literally annihilate Shinn and the Force Impulse.

That being the case, if Kira were to put his intentions on the total destruction of his target, Shinn, no matter how enraged or self-rightous he is, could never topple the experience, skill, ability, power and potential that Kira possesses. In my opinion, their first battle was empty and Shinn has no reason to brag his superiority bases on a battle with a severly handicapped opponent who, on top of that, was merely trying to escape.

[zeheero1982]

My vote goes to Kira and the (Strike) Freedom. Even though in the last episode, "Phase 34: Nightmare", Shinn (piloting the Force Impulse) destroyed the Freedom, Kira wasn't trying to kill Shinn, nor did he ever have ANY intention of doing so. Granted, most might call Kira's stance on death foolish, but you have to think, "Why kill really?" War is war, I know, but wars aren't won simply by whom ever can spill the most blood. But that's another story....However, on Kira's defense, it take extraordinary skill and abilities to dismember a mobile suit WITHOUT aiming for the cockpit. Throughout all of his battles, including the Destroy GUNDAM, Kira has never targeted the cockpit. Shinn, on the other hand, relies solely on his abilities to inflict overall damage, a very reckless and unrefined style really. Going back to the basics, throughout their first battle, Kira had many opportunities to literally annihilate Shinn and the Force Impulse.

That being the case, if Kira were to put his intentions on the total destruction of his target, Shinn, no matter how enraged or self-rightous he is, could never topple the experience, skill, ability, power and potential that Kira possesses. In my opinion, their first battle was empty and Shinn has no reason to brag his superiority bases on a battle with a severly handicapped opponent who, on top of that, was merely trying to escape.


I totallly agree with that!!!!!
No one here pointed out kira wasn't trying to kill Shinn in the process. It is much easier to kill something than to resolve the battle without killing. :wink

[davidsiaw]

Shinn forever. Dont flame me for this but...

K I R A S U X

the end. :)

[staradderdragoon]

lol. i wont flame you, but i just have to disagree. statistics go against shinn. the end. :)

[Ganj]

I totallly agree with that!!!!!
No one here pointed out kira wasn't trying to kill Shinn in the process. It is much easier to kill something than to resolve the battle without killing. :wink
Thanks... :amuse

Shinn forever. Dont flame me for this but...

K I R A S U X

the end. :)
Dont' worry about it. I mean, I like Shinn but for the most part, he irritates me something fierce, so I can't critisize. :smile-big So I'm sure you have your reasons. :laugh

[kenok]

Kiras still the man, hes got power, strength, the ultimate coordinator profile and all, hes got it all, he would soo kick shinn when ever hes wants.
And Shinn is just some messed up kid whos stuck in the chairmans plans and need some brain soap wash, shinn is so messed up.

My vote would have to go for Kira :P

[Freedom rulez]

My vote goes to Kira. he is the "Ultimate Coordinator". regards Kira's skills by the end of SEED, even Athrun can't be match up against him.. By restricting himself to aiming for the non-critical areas of a mobile suit, it severely limits his performance. Against Zakus and Daggers are one thing, but restricting himself against other Gundams piloted by druggies aces is just not smart. On the other hand, his fight against Providence was an incredible smorgasboard of skill. In the last episode of GS, Kira demonstrates his improved fighting abilities in Freedom. In GSD, Kira is more powerful because he can control his seed (an ability he gained from using it so much in GS, which people seem to criticize, but worked out better for him in the long run).

Kira has clearly improved his skill level from GS because in GS he was always aiming at the cockpits and his accuracy was much lower than in GSD. In episode 23 of GSD, Kira disables a half a dozen Gundams in a few minutes, whereas Athrun and Shinn were flying around wondering what happened. Kira's accuracy/speed have increased dramatically, and one final ability that Kira seems to have also developed is a high level of unpredictability as Shinn comments when he reviews Freedom's previous battles. Kird did struggle against those 3 draggies in GS..but then again..he's already on his non-killing schtick. This means when he fights, he has to aim for the arms, legs, weapons, and head. Not the biggest and most vulnerable part, the body. In other words, Kira has already handicapped himself severely. Can you imagine what kind of trouble soldiers in wars today would have if they were only allowed to aim for the arms and legs?

the creators already claimed the pure skillwise, Kira's number one, with Shinn second, and Asuran third. So we can all debate as much as we want on who's better, but the creators are the one's who ultimately determine who's the best, and they already stated that, did they not? but i think Athrun should be second. Athrun is not as skilled as Kira. but, he IS a better pilot. regarding to the Gillberts theory...KIRA>>>>ALL..the thing is Kira's never used him full potential. like Gill said. Kira has the greatest skill..i think what gill said is true. And as I'd said before, it's not a sure thing that Kira's a NT/evolving into one, but it is a sure thing that he's somehow got the skill to dodge an enormous net of beam fire, constantly shifting, as well as the ability to sense two other confirmed NT.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

The reason why Kira would lose again is simple really. Unless he gets over the fact that people die (they really do. Its natural so deal with it) he has no edge what-so-ever on Shinn. Shinn was driven to the point where he studdied Kiara's moves until he found a weak-point. The fact that Kira doesn't aim for cockpits. Boo hoo, Kira lost woopdy flippin doo. He underestimated Shinn as just another Coordinator and while he was doing that, Shinn used the Silhourtte packs to his advantage and treashed the Freedom Gundam.

If Kira were to forget his ways of being a pacifest on the battlefield and actually attacked Shinn (aiming for the cockpit and going SEED mode, etc.), he would win. Like stated, he was made to be the ultimate Coordinator. But as Gabriel states, Kira had no purpose on the battlefield and thats what led to his downfall. Going into battle with the state of mind that "we may be on the battlefield, but we can solve our differences mid-battle" can only get you killed.

In conclusion, if Kira still has the state of thinking he did when he faced Shinn the last time, it doesn't matter how good the Strike Freedom Gundam is, with a pilot that won't use it to its full potential, its just scrap metal. If he comes back to the battlefield and seriously Shinn no holds bar, then he'll have victory. But in this current situation, Shinn has the upperhand on Kira and the fight will have the same result as last time.

According to most philosophers and knowledgeble people in the world, insanity is best defined as doing the same problem twice in the same way and expecting a different result. The same goes for this situation. But this is just my opinion. I obviously can't convince a hoard of fanboys/girls to see my point of view when the refuse to see any other one's than their own.

I'm not naming any names, but you fanboys/girls know who you are. And if you neg-rep me for this, please follow my only request, which is to leave your name with rep. Thank you if you read all of this.

[zeheero1982]

The reason why Kira would lose again is simple really. Unless he gets over the fact that people die (they really do. Its natural so deal with it) he has no edge what-so-ever on Shinn. Shinn was driven to the point where he studdied Kiara's moves until he found a weak-point. The fact that Kira doesn't aim for cockpits. Boo hoo, Kira lost woopdy flippin doo. He underestimated Shinn as just another Coordinator and while he was doing that, Shinn used the Silhourtte packs to his advantage and treashed the Freedom Gundam.

If Kira were to forget his ways of being a pacifest on the battlefield and actually attacked Shinn (aiming for the cockpit and going SEED mode, etc.), he would win. Like stated, he was made to be the ultimate Coordinator. But as Gabriel states, Kira had no purpose on the battlefield and thats what led to his downfall. Going into battle with the state of mind that "we may be on the battlefield, but we can solve our differences mid-battle" can only get you killed.

In conclusion, if Kira still has the state of thinking he did when he faced Shinn the last time, it doesn't matter how good the Strike Freedom Gundam is, with a pilot that won't use it to its full potential, its just scrap metal. If he comes back to the battlefield and seriously Shinn no holds bar, then he'll have victory. But in this current situation, Shinn has the upperhand on Kira and the fight will have the same result as last time.

According to most philosophers and knowledgeble people in the world, insanity is best defined as doing the same problem twice in the same way and expecting a different result. The same goes for this situation. But this is just my opinion. I obviously can't convince a hoard of fanboys/girls to see my point of view when the refuse to see any other one's than their own.

I'm not naming any names, but you fanboys/girls know who you are. And if you neg-rep me for this, please follow my only request, which is to leave your name with rep. Thank you if you read all of this.

Just because Kira is a pacifest doesn't mean he is weak. Furthermore, he will defeat Shinn. Have you ever watch Trigun or maybe Samari X? The two characters didn't kill and they defeated all the bad guys

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Just because Kira is a pacifest doesn't mean he is weak. Furthermore, he will defeat Shinn. Have you ever watch Trigun or maybe Samari X? The two characters didn't kill and they defeated all the bad guys

But in the end, their pacifest ways end up getting many, many people killed. In Trigun, Wolfwood died which led Vash to take on Knives head on instead of running away like a wuss. Also because Vash didn't kill the badguys, they died in a much more painful way. In Samurai X...thats Ruroni Kenshin, right. If not, then I've never seen it. And if it is, the reason Kenshin beats everyone, is because he spent all those years killing people honing his skills and used his same moves with a non-letahl sword. They were still killing moves, but he used a non-lethal weapon making it practically immpossible to kill a person.

But Gundams are KILLING machines aren't they? They are tools of war, and thus when using them in war, they should be used to KILL people. If Kira wants to use Strike Freedom to plant flowers and crap, then let him. But if he doesn't think people should fight, then he sould stay out of their way when they do. Now if he did peace talks, thats all fine and dandy. But not when its on a battle field. Because battle fields are places people are supposed to die on.

As Gilbert said, Kira is a mis-directed fool whose only been confusing people on the battlefield, and making it difficult to fight. He then cuts down everyone the same, and makes no alliances with people. Thats why operation Angel Down happened, as so stated in the show. Now people could say this is Gilbert's way of covering up some evl scheme, but to a person who doesn't have a deep paranoia complex and knows the reason there are wars, this made perfect sense.

[davidsiaw]

Yep. Freedom's not for planting flowers indeed. That one made me laugh. We got to see some of kira's thirst for blood when he cut saviour down. I thought it was funny because since he's such a pacifist, why can't he just be a world leader like Calgalli and do USEFUL stuff heh.

If there was a GSD version of DnD...

Character name: Kira Yamato
Race: Human Coordinator
Profession: Freelance HiMATer
Age: 18
Eyes: purple
Height: 175 cm
Weight: 64 kg
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Pet: Torii

[antoine]

rofl "Freelance HiMaTer" hahahahhahahahahhahaa

[Jujubie]

The reason why Kira would lose again is simple really. Unless he gets over the fact that people die (they really do. Its natural so deal with it) he has no edge what-so-ever on Shinn. Shinn was driven to the point where he studdied Kiara's moves until he found a weak-point. The fact that Kira doesn't aim for cockpits. Boo hoo, Kira lost woopdy flippin doo. He underestimated Shinn as just another Coordinator and while he was doing that, Shinn used the Silhourtte packs to his advantage and treashed the Freedom Gundam.

If Kira were to forget his ways of being a pacifest on the battlefield and actually attacked Shinn (aiming for the cockpit and going SEED mode, etc.), he would win. Like stated, he was made to be the ultimate Coordinator. But as Gabriel states, Kira had no purpose on the battlefield and thats what led to his downfall. Going into battle with the state of mind that "we may be on the battlefield, but we can solve our differences mid-battle" can only get you killed.

In conclusion, if Kira still has the state of thinking he did when he faced Shinn the last time, it doesn't matter how good the Strike Freedom Gundam is, with a pilot that won't use it to its full potential, its just scrap metal. If he comes back to the battlefield and seriously Shinn no holds bar, then he'll have victory. But in this current situation, Shinn has the upperhand on Kira and the fight will have the same result as last time.

According to most philosophers and knowledgeble people in the world, insanity is best defined as doing the same problem twice in the same way and expecting a different result. The same goes for this situation. But this is just my opinion. I obviously can't convince a hoard of fanboys/girls to see my point of view when the refuse to see any other one's than their own.

I'm not naming any names, but you fanboys/girls know who you are. And if you neg-rep me for this, please follow my only request, which is to leave your name with rep. Thank you if you read all of this.

Only reason kira lost was cuz kira doesn't kill and that shinn was just another gundam to him. his concern was the safety of AA. AA + Freedom vs half of ZAFT is like an impossible situation. I'm surprised they got away lol. If kira had nothing to escort, he could've got out scott free. Shinn would've followed him no doubt, but he'd be disadvantaged because he'd have no spare parts lol. that battle wasn't even a kira vs shinn one on one battle like shinn would have wanted (not really cuz his pride would be hurt) cuz Kira did not even acknowledge impulse's existence until the end. It was all about the safety of the AA to him.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Only reason kira lost was cuz kira doesn't kill and that shinn was just another gundam to him. his concern was the safety of AA. AA + Freedom vs half of ZAFT is like an impossible situation. I'm surprised they got away lol. If kira had nothing to escort, he could've got out scott free. Shinn would've followed him no doubt, but he'd be disadvantaged because he'd have no spare parts lol. that battle wasn't even a kira vs shinn one on one battle like shinn would have wanted (not really cuz his pride would be hurt) cuz Kira did not even acknowledge impulse's existence until the end. It was all about the safety of the AA to him.


And thus was his fault. Unlike Shinn, Kira's not a soldier. He doesn't accept war as a natural part of humanity, and thus does his best to try to make peace. But ON the battlefield? Come on. The fact that Shinn used his recourses WISELY, shows that he took great consideration when dealing with an enemy, like Kira should have done. But Kira decided to instead take everyone non-chanantly. I have no doubt he was surprised to see Shinn PWN his ass. I mean, Shinn owned him using his different Silhouette packs. (Who would think of dentonating your own chest flyer on your enemy.

The fact was, yes the ArcAngel was against some immpossible odds, but we've seen them get out of worse situations. None come to mind, mainly because I just watched the entire GSD series in an all day marathon and all GS stuff kinda has taking a back seat, but they've done it.

Anyway, Kira has been doing a horrible job as a pilot of such a destructive gundam, and it saddens me. THe mass power of the Freedom, and what will be the Strike Freedom, makes, me go to tears that its going to a pilot who will never use it to its fullest capabilities. :scry

[zeheero1982]

But in the end, their pacifest ways end up getting many, many people killed. In Trigun, Wolfwood died which led Vash to take on Knives head on instead of running away like a wuss. Also because Vash didn't kill the badguys, they died in a much more painful way. In Samurai X...thats Ruroni Kenshin, right. If not, then I've never seen it. And if it is, the reason Kenshin beats everyone, is because he spent all those years killing people honing his skills and used his same moves with a non-letahl sword. They were still killing moves, but he used a non-lethal weapon making it practically immpossible to kill a person.

But Gundams are KILLING machines aren't they? They are tools of war, and thus when using them in war, they should be used to KILL people. If Kira wants to use Strike Freedom to plant flowers and crap, then let him. But if he doesn't think people should fight, then he sould stay out of their way when they do. Now if he did peace talks, thats all fine and dandy. But not when its on a battle field. Because battle fields are places people are supposed to die on.

As Gilbert said, Kira is a mis-directed fool whose only been confusing people on the battlefield, and making it difficult to fight. He then cuts down everyone the same, and makes no alliances with people. Thats why operation Angel Down happened, as so stated in the show. Now people could say this is Gilbert's way of covering up some evl scheme, but to a person who doesn't have a deep paranoia complex and knows the reason there are wars, this made perfect sense.


First of all,Vash never ran away from Knives(He just couldn't find him). He confronted him several times. As I recalled, Vash point that beam straight at Knives to disable him. And yes, Kenshin did kill alot of people, however he repented by not killing anyone during the years he became a wander. Besides, his master,Hiko, would have never taught him the final techinque if he was still a killer. Anyways, lets get back on the topic, For your info, Gilbert is a moron. He says Kira is a fool for trying to disarm people when Kira has the skills too. Oh yeah, I can see Shinn disarming people with his skills, lets be honesty, Shinn never had the talent to do the things Kira could do( sure he got lucky, because Kira fought half the Zaft forces all by himself plus he had Shinn on his tail). Oh yeah, One more thing for Shinn fan, Shinn has the skills but not as much of exp as Kira.Kira is the only person in Seeds who have some sense not to take peoples life when he pilots his Mobile suit.

[Jujubie]

And thus was his fault. Unlike Shinn, Kira's not a soldier. He doesn't accept war as a natural part of humanity, and thus does his best to try to make peace. But ON the battlefield? Come on. The fact that Shinn used his recourses WISELY, shows that he took great consideration when dealing with an enemy, like Kira should have done. But Kira decided to instead take everyone non-chanantly. I have no doubt he was surprised to see Shinn PWN his ass. I mean, Shinn owned him using his different Silhouette packs. (Who would think of dentonating your own chest flyer on your enemy.

The fact was, yes the ArcAngel was against some immpossible odds, but we've seen them get out of worse situations. None come to mind, mainly because I just watched the entire GSD series in an all day marathon and all GS stuff kinda has taking a back seat, but they've done it.

Anyway, Kira has been doing a horrible job as a pilot of such a destructive gundam, and it saddens me. THe mass power of the Freedom, and what will be the Strike Freedom, makes, me go to tears that its going to a pilot who will never use it to its fullest capabilities. :scry

I'm not saying his defeat was not his own fault. I'm trying to lessen the hate toward Kira against you fans who want nothing more than Bush-like gundam pilots instead of ghandi-pacifist fighters who want to do the impossible and bring peace without killing. Even I agree that Kira should be blood thirsty and arrogant but that is not going to happen, and I still love the character.

And the bit about that "yes the ArcAngel was against some immpossible odds, but we've seen them get out of worse situations" is incorrect. That encounter with ZAFT was the biggest they've gone against. In the Spitz Break battle happened, AA had alliance forces to back them. In their battle with the Druggies, they had Orb blow up. In the final battle, they were in an alliance with two other forces by their side. In this encounter with ZAFT, they were alone with only Freedom. The Murasames didn't even help til the end. It just amazes me how they got away from this one.

And that "Who would think of dentonating your own chest flyer on your enemy.", in his first encounter with Andrew he released his shield much like the chest flyer. Strike and Freedom can't split parts. If you're saying that Shinn is more genius than Kira, you're wrong. Kira is in fact the ultimate coordinator according to Dully.

And if you think that Kira should have used his sources wisely, do you think he had reason to like Shinn? He did not acknowledge Impulse until now because in all his encounters Shinn has been reckless and showed no signs of a great pilot. He disabled Shinn the first time and in the battle with Destroy, Impulse recklessly got in the line of Destroy's fire. Kira didnt know about the connection between Shinn and Stellar. He doesn't even know the pilots. Impulse initially fought against Destroy. If he fully understood the connection he would have let Shinn took care of it. So he would not have bothered analyzing data. He's never done that in fact (i dont think at least). So why should he have analyzed data?

But you have to admit, in a one to one battle he would pwn Shinn. Why? because he is a genius and is supreme to other coordinators. Shinn would not have pwned Kira if Kira had not been preoccupied by AA's safety. Shinn can never match Kira but Fukuda will change that for fans. So who disagrees with me and why?

[Muk]

I think of destiny as a tragedy and Shinn as the tragic hero. He is gonna loose to Kira after he relises that he was protecting the wrong thing, for what he was protecting was a lie and to make it right he will die by the sword as he lived by it.

[Chillin]

Fine, let us have Kira kill everyone he fights. I guess this also kills Kira's development and maturation from the first series as well as parts of Destiny. While we're at it let's get a lot of people pissed off because he killed Shinn, Rey, Lunamaria, and the rest of Minerva. <---- exaggerated rant

I really don't think it should work that way. In terms of story purposes the fact that Kira doesn't kill people in battle is a sign of his development as a character. Not only that it is a testament to his actual skill as a pilot and serves as a kind of balance so he doesn't beat the hell out of everyone he encounters. Imagine if he just disregarded all he stood for in the battle with Shinn and actually started completely thinking about himself. Shinn did all that analyzing, and at the end of the day Kira says "You know what, I think I'll kill this guy." and then he just kills Shinn right there. That would have been a step backwards for his character.

I mean I guess if we just want to see bloodshed, then it would be all good. But if you think about this development wise for him to all of sudden change what he has stood for would be very weird and not understandable. Kira can do things others can't, therefore he can take steps that others can't. One such is following through with the ideals that he has set forth for himself. I hate to bite off of Spider-man, but this can apply to part of Kira's character in that "with great power comes great responsibility". I mean I'll totally overlook that he was forced into this war, but now that he is in it and realizes he can make a difference while still for the most part hanging on to what he believes in he's going to follow through with whatever move he decides to make. In many ways that is very much like Shinn, except Kira holds himself back purposely as part as his beliefs. Call it naive on Kira's part, but in many ways the people of LOGOS were right in saying that "They (Dullindal and co.) will just replace us." Considering that, and Shinn's blind loyalty to Dullindal and his words, you can say Shinn is just as naive if not more.

Certainly I can understand that they both want to end the war, but as a character Kira is just a more compassionate and mature individual (who thinks things through). That is why I like him more than Shinn. That being said, since I rather do like drama I do tend to enjoy Shinn's development even though I might not necessarily like the character right now. That basically sums up what I think of both characters.

[Jujubie]

^ Great post Chillin! Reps for you!

[staradderdragoon]

awesome post. so basically, it would be extremely gay if kira was uncontrollable because there wouldnt really be a point in the story line....

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Sure there would. We'd see everyone in the world gang up on him, and just because this is a fan-based anime, he defeats everyone of them. How is that not enjoyable to watch? :blink

[staradderdragoon]

it would get boring. i liked it when kira got owned by shinn, but i didnt like it how he got owned so fast.

[Chillin]

We are basically seeing that with Shinn, and it's not enjoyable because he's such an ass about it all.

[Kirarox]

Kira all the way, i hate shinn.

[Kirarox]

And thus was his fault. Unlike Shinn, Kira's not a soldier. He doesn't accept war as a natural part of humanity, and thus does his best to try to make peace. But ON the battlefield? Come on. The fact that Shinn used his recourses WISELY, shows that he took great consideration when dealing with an enemy, like Kira should have done. But Kira decided to instead take everyone non-chanantly. I have no doubt he was surprised to see Shinn PWN his ass. I mean, Shinn owned him using his different Silhouette packs. (Who would think of dentonating your own chest flyer on your enemy.

The fact was, yes the ArcAngel was against some immpossible odds, but we've seen them get out of worse situations. None come to mind, mainly because I just watched the entire GSD series in an all day marathon and all GS stuff kinda has taking a back seat, but they've done it.

Anyway, Kira has been doing a horrible job as a pilot of such a destructive gundam, and it saddens me. THe mass power of the Freedom, and what will be the Strike Freedom, makes, me go to tears that its going to a pilot who will never use it to its fullest capabilities. :scry

i hate shin. kira had a good control of it. and by the way i hate shinn fans who think shin is better than kira. kira held destiny's sword.

[NewtypeS3]

The ultimate irony of this topic: people keep voting for Kira because they hate Shin, but this is a topic about the skill of the pilots...
...and the series itself establishes that Shin is better than Kira with this very same MS setup.

A topic of folly and self-delusion, if I've ever seen one.

[Darth]

Honestly, I do believe Kira is the better pilot overall.

but then again, I should probably rewatch their fight and find out how Kira actually lost.

[NewtypeS3]

Oh, how Kira lost was easy:
Shin analyzed his fighting style (what some call 'cheating,' what the real world calls 'military strategy) and found key flaws in Kira's fighting style that could be exploited in Shin's favor. This includes never going for the kill shot, which Shin took advantage of and utterly dominated Kira with.

Kira may be your favorite pilot (and this is to this topic in general), but the show made it painfully obvious that Shin was the better pilot - even making the win in an inferior mobile suit.

[FireHawk64]

it's simple, Kira will always win, he's got that Major character Shield.

[JujuXChoJu]

kira all the way.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Oh, how Kira lost was easy:
Shin analyzed his fighting style (what some call 'cheating,' what the real world calls 'military strategy) and found key flaws in Kira's fighting style that could be exploited in Shin's favor. This includes never going for the kill shot, which Shin took advantage of and utterly dominated Kira with.

Kira may be your favorite pilot (and this is to this topic in general), but the show made it painfully obvious that Shin was the better pilot - even making the win in an inferior mobile suit.

Where the HELL were you FIVE YEARS AGO?!?!?!?! :uwah

[Wesley]

Oh, how Kira lost was easy:
Shin analyzed his fighting style (what some call 'cheating,' what the real world calls 'military strategy) and found key flaws in Kira's fighting style that could be exploited in Shin's favor. This includes never going for the kill shot, which Shin took advantage of and utterly dominated Kira with.

Kira may be your favorite pilot (and this is to this topic in general), but the show made it painfully obvious that Shin was the better pilot - even making the win in an inferior mobile suit.

The strategy was that Shin could replace lost parts, while Kira could not. Shin losing an arm, a leg, a head, and a wing, to damage Freedom even a little bit was a victory for Shin. Every bit of damage that Freedom sustained, gradually wore down it's effectiveness, making it and Kira easier to beat.

A damaged Freedom is a weaker Freedom. Just because it could still fly doesn't mean it was still able to perform as well it could without any damage, and by extension it means that Kira's ability to pilot it is also diminished.

You are only as good as the machine you fly. This is something that Destiny emphasised and I respect the series for it.

[JujuXChoJu]

Oh, how Kira lost was easy:
Shin analyzed his fighting style (what some call 'cheating,' what the real world calls 'military strategy) and found key flaws in Kira's fighting style that could be exploited in Shin's favor. This includes never going for the kill shot, which Shin took advantage of and utterly dominated Kira with.

Kira may be your favorite pilot (and this is to this topic in general), but the show made it painfully obvious that Shin was the better pilot - even making the win in an inferior mobile suit.
but you have to realize that, the first battle, when shinn took out kira. Kira took out shinn head, if it's wasent for his suit, that can separate and re add part, kira would have one. Also kira is using the old freedom ,when impulse is newer generation.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

but you have to realize that, the first battle, when shinn took out kira. Kira took out shinn head, if it's wasent for his suit, that can separate and re add part, kira would have one. Also kira is using the old freedom ,when impulse is newer generation.

The Impulse is basically a more efficient version of the Strike. It had a couple of additional technology improvements implemented in it. The Freedom used a nuclear core with N-N-Jammer software. Its power output, weapon efficiency, and overall capability was far superior to the Impulse, which was developed in times of peace, and therefore in accordance with the treaties between the World Powers after the events of Junius Seven.

Even with the improvements with technology, the Impulse was limited by being unable to use technological advancements found in the Freedom, Impulse, and Providence.

So yeah, Kira had no excuse. He even was pushed into trying to shoot Shinn's cockpit......OH SNAP! THATS RIGHT!!!! The scene when Shinn separates his mid section, you would notice that where the saber missed, was where Shinn's cockpit would be. LAWLZ AT MORALS!!!!

[Biolink]

Also kira is using the old freedom ,when impulse is newer generation.

Ummmm, Freedom is a Nuclear Powered suit and has N-Jammer technology, need I remind you.

It has more weapons, is faster, and has better defense.

Impulse is not a better Mobile Suit.

Shinn is just a lotmore crafty and skilled than Kira.

[NewtypeS3]

Where the HELL were you FIVE YEARS AGO?!?!?!?! :uwah
Not here, apparently. :laugh

---

The strategy was that Shin could replace lost parts, while Kira could not.
Actually, the strategy was to take advantage of the fact that Kira never once attempts to 'kill' his opponents directly. You know, unless they're in a battleship, in which case they're apparently totally free game.
Notice in the opening bit of the fight, Shin has absolutely no problem in dodging Kira's opening shots without even moving out of his flight plan - instead nudging limbs and the unit's head out of the way so the beam weaponry passes harmlessly by.
Stuff that anyone with half a brain in Seed and Destiny should have been able to do, but hey. They were grunts.

Shin losing an arm, a leg,
...the leg wasn't lost until the end-explosion, however, making it damage suffered after the final blow was delivered. The arm, sure, you can argue that. After all, he lost an entire easily-replaceable torso fighter because he was careless for a split-second...
...and would have not allowed himself to be careless over had he not the ability to replace parts, as we've seen with Shin in the Destiny.

a head,
See above.

and a wing,
The Impulse doesn't have 'wings.' And while the Force Silhouette was damaged, Shin ejected the part as well because it would make distracting Kira so he could replace the damaged parts all the easier.
An actually 'skilled' pilot would have perhaps dodged the incoming torso. If not, an actually 'skilled' pilot would certainly not have sat in his seat stunned for a good minute or so to allow Shin to replace those lost parts.

to damage Freedom even a little bit was a victory for Shin.
The whole point of damaging the Freedom being a big deal was because, surprise, the Freedom was still an insanely dangerous threat on the battlefield and piloted by the previous main character. In fact, the Freedom was still considered to be a 'savior' of some sort during the previous war by ZAFT, thanks to Kira's actions.
The fact that Shin was able to damage the Freedom, a unit that was only damaged twice during the actual run of Seed (once against the Druggies and the final battle of Seed) and over a total of 50 episodes, was a big deal. It was showing, rather blatantly, how great a pilot Shin is.

Every bit of damage that Freedom sustained, gradually wore down it's effectiveness, making it and Kira easier to beat.
...which is the whole point of a fight.
This is also how Kira fights, as he continually aims for methods to prevent the enemy from fighting back... making them weaker and easier to defeat.

A damaged Freedom is a weaker Freedom.
Sure, state the blatantly obvious as if it proves your point, considering the Freedom started off against Shin in a fresh condition...

Just because it could still fly doesn't mean it was still able to perform as well it could without any damage, and by extension it means that Kira's ability to pilot it is also diminished.
...yes, but the thing is that Kira wouldn't have been damaged in the first place had he been even a decent pilot against Shin, as Kira has almost literally every advantage in this fight. What advantages, may you ask?

1) Infinite power for the Freedom, meaning he can spam his weapons with abandon. Also, infinite PSA for what it counts in this fight.
2) More weapons than the Impulse, though the Impulse's beam rifle is stronger than the Freedom's.
3) Higher maneuverability, thanks to the Hi-MAT mode and the wing-thrusters. If Shin changes to Sword or Launcher form... it increases the advantage all the more, and reduces Shin's chances of hitting Kira.
4) The Freedom containing an OS that has been custom-built to adapt to all of Kira's horrible flaws as a pilot.
5) Kira only needs to hold off Shin long enough that the Archangel escapes. Kira forgot all about this until the last moment, where he let the whole concept distract him.

The fact that Kira lost in this fight is all on his skill, or lack thereof.

You are only as good as the machine you fly. This is something that Destiny emphasised and I respect the series for it.
Ironically, Destiny goes to great lengths to explain that the Freedom is still far better a mobile suit than the Impulse could ever be. Which means it's not about the machine, but the combination of pilot and machine at the same time.
After all, we saw how Mu wiped the floor with the EA during the first battle of Orb in a unit that was a little outdated... not to mention how he thrived in an MA that should never last more than a minute on the battlefield. And then there's the fact that Kira in the best mobile suit of the age couldn't fight off two guys in inferior mobile suits...

---

but you have to realize that, the first battle, when shinn took out kira. Kira took out shinn head,
...and?
A head is not important to a mobile suit battle outside being the location of the main camera. The Impulse obviously has more than one camera, and even then... this really doesn't matter because Shin can replace parts if need be.

if it's wasent for his suit, that can separate and re add part, kira would have one.
...not really.
If his suit didn't have the capability to replace parts, Shin would have been more careful in combat. Again, as we saw with Shin's tactics in the Destiny.

Also kira is using the old freedom ,when impulse is newer generation.
Ironically, the Freedom is still a vastly-superior mobile suit.
Sorta like how the Nintendo Wii may be newer than the 360 and PS3 (the latter by a week, but still...), but the Wii is vastly underpowered compared to the other two.

[Biolink]

Actually, I don't know if Freedom is faster.

It has greater straight line speed, and Hi-MaT to make, sharper cuts and turns.

I think it does. I dunno, I'm fucking exhausted

[Red Zaku]

Actually, I don't know if Freedom is faster.
It has greater straight line speed, and Hi-MaT to make, sharper cuts and turns. I think it does. I dunno, I'm fucking exhausted

Let's break this down shall we? First off we need to get this out of the way right now, the Freedom was stated in series in 33 to be superior to the Impulse. With that in mind let's break down the match up mobile suit to mobile suit a bit hm?

Mobility:
The way Freedom uses it's wings to manuever in Earths Atmosphere is also much more efficient then the Force Impulse Silhouette pack. Where as, the Silhouette obviously has Elevators and flaps to increase or decrease Drag in the Atmosphere as outline by the paneling on the MG Kit, Freedom's entire wing surface is used which allows it to create much more drag in the atmosphere and thus make quicker and sharper turns then the Impulse.

Fire Power:
So yeah, it's very far to say Kira had the advantages in every deparment he just sucked too much to actually make those advantages work for him. While Impulses rifle packed more power it was just one rifle, what Kira loses in beam power he makes up for in the shear amount of weapons he can spam.

Armor:
This one again goes to Freedom. Even though both MS use a varying form of PSA both useless against beam weapons, and certain weapons with enough mass and force can shatter any form of PS like glass. But the fact is here, they both have anti-beam coated shields which is the only protection for both MS, though Freedom has an extra bit of defense for Melee combat that Impulse Lacks completely. The wings of Freedom can be used to balance the mobile suit while attacking allowing it to adjust it's weight to make it's stance much harder for an opposing fighter to break. This means Kira can stay in close range offense with almost no worry about Freedom breaking it's stance and those exposing itself to a close range attack.

Straight Line Speed/Acceleration:
This one maybe goes to Impulse, while the Force Silhouette can't hope to in a million years match the potentional mobility created by Freedom's wings and the drag they can create to help the MS turn in the Atmosphere, it does however increase the number of useable thrusters on Impulse tremendously so it actually might have superior acceleration, though that's not really much of an advantage unless Shinn plans to Race Kira.

So there you have it, out of four area's Freedom had the clear advantage in 3 thanks to design elements incorporated into the MS some two years before the creation of Impulse Gundam. Kira's got no excuse not to win considering the court was stacked rather heavily in his favor and yet Shinn mopped the floor with him embarassingly so.

[Kirarox]

Evn though Kira is a pacifst, he could kick Shinn's f***ing butt easily. Remeber Renton from Eureka 7? He took down all the feddie ass without killing when he and Eureka realized that killing is wrong. Kira can pwn Shinn. Freedom may be outdated but it is still scary in Kira's hands. SF has more power than Destiny or Impulse. To SF, Destiny and Impulse are just grunts. Shinn beat Kira coz he was cheating. So Kira used his plot hack to see on how Shinn feels if he was facing a cheater or superultramegagundam.

[Biolink]

That message was so terrible, I question whether it is a troll job

[kenok]

Lol this thread was started 4 years ago ...and still going

Fact Simple:....if Kira can beat Asuran and Asuran owns Shin...then Kira owns Shin even more if he puts his mind to it...

Did i spell Asuran wrong? haven't watch seed in years.

[NewtypeS3]

Evn though Kira is a pacifst, he could kick Shinn's f***ing butt easily.
Might wanna try watching Destiny 34 again. If he could kick Shin's butt so easily, why didn't he?
Are you trying to argue that Kira was so fucking stupid that he didn't take out an enemy unit trying to down the very ship he was protecting, thus letting him get drawn far away from the objective of his own mission (protect the ARCHANGEL... which is being FIRED UPON...), and nearly dying as he runs away from Shin... and that all this was a part of some magical plan so Kira wouldn't have to kill anyone even though he's blatantly killed members of the Minerva's crew, the crew of hundreds of battleships and other guys like Rau?

If so, you really... really need to work at the art of debating.

Remeber Renton from Eureka 7?
Nope.
Never watched E7, and I never cared to. If an anime winds up giving me motion sickness during the opening sequence that shows off the style of combat... and the series isn't remotely interesting during the first 15 episodes... I'm not interested.

Further, I don't see how this gets to remotely apply, considering Renton isn't Kira.
Nor is the Nirvash... or whatever he does pilot... the Freedom/S-Freedom.

In fact, they're completely different shows, with completely different technologies.

He took down all the feddie ass without killing when he and Eureka realized that killing is wrong.
...ok, good for them.
Still wondering how this applies to Kira having the skill to kill Shin, as you are trying to argue.

Because it doesn't mean jack if Renton can fly his mech through a supernova and come out unscathed with a harem of ladies appearing in the cockpit as a side-effect.
It doesn't mean Kira can do the same thing.

Kira can pwn Shinn.
...and yet, he lost in the most brutal way during the first fight and barely tied with Shin in their second, and only other fight of the series!
And in the second fight, they were on even terms. Kira had nearly every advantage in the first fight, where he nearly died! How can this remotely be considered 'owning' outside 'Shin owned Kira in Destiny 34'?!

Freedom may be outdated but it is still scary in Kira's hands.
...except it's not outdated at all. And, in fact, Kira had most of the advantages in their first fight. How do I know?

1) The Nuclear-Jammer Canceller.
This gives the Freedom a single leg-up on the compeition by granting the unit unlimited power for the weaponry and phase shift armor. The Impulse may be able to recharge it's power, but only within extremely-close range of the Minerva... which it wasn't for this fight.

2) The collection of weaponry.
While the beam rifle of the Impulse is stronger than the beam rifle of the Freedom... the Freedom still has the railcannons and Baleena wing-cannons that the Impulse does not. In fact, those Baleenas are pretty much one of the more powerful weapons mounted in a pair on the mobile suit outside the Twin-Sat Cannon from Gundam X. Oh, and some beam sabers for the rare occasion someone actually decides to move and Kira has to sully his keyboard hands with touching the MS controls.
Meanwhile, the Impulse... had only a beam rifle and a pair of beam sabers.

3) Vastly superior maneuverability.
Hi-Mat Mode, which the S-Freedom does not have, allows the Freedom to use each wingtip as a thruster and utilize the wings of the Freedom much like those of a bird, allowing for insane levels of maneuverability that the Impulse could not hope to match. And if the Impulse switched over to the Sword or Blast packs, Shin's chances of hitting Kira would have plummeted.
It should be noted that Force Impulse is theoretically faster than the Freedom, but that doesn't matter unless Kira and Shin decide to settle things by racing from Orb to Japan.

4) Kira can shoot down incoming replacement parts.
If Kira can shoot dozens of pilots without killing them in the METEOR... a unit made to spam deadly weaponry like they were a child's plaything... then shooting down the blatantly-obvious replacement parts should be child's play (and he should know about these part-replacements, as Kira and Shin have been on the same battlefields before).
This is why Shin kamikaze'd the broken parts of the torso of the Impulse and what remained of the Force Pack - he needed to buy time in what everyone else calls 'strategy.'
Of course, it doesn't explain why Kira sat there in shock for another minute while Shin replaced those parts, but...

5) Kira didn't need to take on the Impulse in an extended fight.
Why? Kira's entire point of going out on the battlefield was to protect the Archangel. Kira had no problem shooting down all of those ZAFT grunts, he had no problem taking aim at those battleships following the Archangel... so why did he decide an extended fight with Shin was such a great idea?
If your only mission is to delay and distract so someone else can escape, you don't leave your mission behind to chase a butterfly. A butterfly wanting to kill you, but a butterfly nevertheless.

Quite frankly, the only advantage Shin had was part replacement - and even then, it was a seriously double-edged sword as Kira could shoot those parts down if Shin ever gave him a chance.
And what did Kira do with this supreme advantage?

Why, he whizzed it down his leg.

SF has more power than Destiny or Impulse.
...ok, sure. The S-Freedom has more power than the Impulse. But there's a small problem with that.

1) The S-Freedom would be fighting the Destiny, as both were rolled out at approximately the same time - the S-Freedom being first used after the Destiny was used. If you want S-Freedom vs Impulse, you're looking at Kira vs Lunamaria. Which brings us to another point...

2) The SF is a ranged unit, while the Destiny is an all-around unit. This does not mean the SF has more power - it simply has a different specialty. And considering Shin was able to keep Kira on the defensive without using melee whatsoever during that second battle of Orb, it indicates that Shin is far more skilled at using far less than Kira.

Oh! And even then, the poll doesn't mention the S-Freedom... but it's obvious that the matchups would be Freedom/Impulse (already shown with Kira having a major advantage, Shin kicked ass) and S-Freedom/Destiny (shown with Shin at a disadvantage... tie).

To SF, Destiny and Impulse are just grunts.
...the Impulse, sure. After all, it's just a fancy Strike.
The Destiny, much less so. After all, the Destiny is one of the two state-of-the-art ZAFT suits handed to two of the better pilots of ZAFT for protection of the homeland. Much like the regular Freedom and the original Justice beforehand, the Destiny is far from a 'grunt suit.'

Unless you think everything not piloted by Kira is a 'grunt suit,' in which case you may need some help.

Shinn beat Kira coz he was cheating.
Yes, because we all know that using military strategy, planning and skill to win in a game of life-and-death, otherwise known as war, is completely cheating and illegal.

That's right, America cheated in World War II by planning out the Normandy Invasion rather than hurling wave after wave of men at the Nazi frontline, only to watch them get chewed up and spat back out again before sending in more men to die the exact same way.
And the Greeks at Thermopylae cheated by forcing their opponents, the Persians, to fight in an area where their high numbers meant nothing and a fraction of the Persian troops could wipe out vast swaths of the Persian Army.
And those Greeks again at Troy. They totally cheated by using that wooden horse to break into the city and slaughter the enemy, thus winning their decade-long war.
And Michael Jordan cheated throughout his NBA career by training, going to practice every day and working with his team in order to maximize their potential. Looks like he'd better give back all those NBA Championships!

Yeah, because using your brain and making use of every advantage you may have is totally stupid. Did you even look over what you're trying to argue?

So Kira used his plot hack to see on how Shinn feels if he was facing a cheater or superultramegagundam.
...was that supposed to be a joke?
Because that didn't even make coherent sense.

And now, onto another post that I have to make, even though it's for another user, as I've reached the character count limit.

[NewtypeS3]

Lol this thread was started 4 years ago ...and still going
...gee, I wonder why...

Fact Simple:....if Kira can beat Asuran and Asuran owns Shin...then Kira owns Shin even more if he puts his mind to it...
And yet, Kira never once beats Athrun in a fair fight. In fact, in two fair fights, Athrun cleans Kira's clock once (almost capturing the guy) and almost kills him in another where.
Further, just because Athrun 'owns' Shin in a completely unfair fight does not mean that Kira is better than Shin. It means... that Athrun beat Shin in an unfair match.

To put it simply...
1) Athrun beats Kira twice in a fair fight.
2) Shin beats Kira once in a fair fight, tying with him a second time.
3) Athrun beats Shin in an unfair fight.
4) From these facts... all we can tell is that Shin and Athrun are both better than Kira. We do not know if Athrun is better than Shin (or the other way around), as we have no evidence to prove one way or the other.

Did i spell Asuran wrong?
You aren't even in the same ballpark for spelling Athrun right. I blame the overly shitty subs that were released before Bandai told us what the right spellings of the names were.

haven't watch seed in years.
I couldn't tell.
After all, you only completely forgot how the events of the series occurred.

Seriously, did you even read the arguments in this topic before simply stating a biased opinion? I mean, no offense, but your point's already been addressed a good five times before on the last two pages, at least.

[Tranquil Fury]

Shinn would win if he stays within character

[JujuXChoJu]

The Impulse is basically a more efficient version of the Strike. It had a couple of additional technology improvements implemented in it. The Freedom used a nuclear core with N-N-Jammer software. Its power output, weapon efficiency, and overall capability was far superior to the Impulse, which was developed in times of peace, and therefore in accordance with the treaties between the World Powers after the events of Junius Seven.

Even with the improvements with technology, the Impulse was limited by being unable to use technological advancements found in the Freedom, Impulse, and Providence.

So yeah, Kira had no excuse. He even was pushed into trying to shoot Shinn's cockpit......OH SNAP! THATS RIGHT!!!! The scene when Shinn separates his mid section, you would notice that where the saber missed, was where Shinn's cockpit would be. LAWLZ AT MORALS!!!!

Explain? cause i dont think kira got to replace his part during the battle?
picture proof?
What about, how he got new part during the battle? Do you really think with strike's with the same damage(without replacing part) could defeat kira?

[JujuXChoJu]

Ummmm, Freedom is a Nuclear Powered suit and has N-Jammer technology, need I remind you.

It has more weapons, is faster, and has better defense.

Impulse is not a better Mobile Suit.

Shinn is just a lotmore crafty and skilled than Kira.
not really, dude if kira didnt shut down his nuclear power reactor, both shinn and him will died, which would be a draw.

[NewtypeS3]

Explain? cause i dont think kira got to replace his part during the battle?
He did, blatantly so.
While it was not built to do so, by the fourth episode of the series, the Archangel was putting parts up on the catapult to launch out to Kira - letting him replace the Aile pack with the Launcher pack. This gave him a complete battery recharge... and considering the Strike+Pack setup gives him an already-extended battery, Kira has three battery charges to burn through overall while his enemies have one per unit.
It just gets worse when Mu and Kira start abusing the Skygrasper abilities in order to switch packs in mid-battle by dropping parts onto the Strike.

The Impulse took this one step further by design and intent. If you're going to claim Shin cheated by using what was designed and planned, Kira is infinitely worse.

What about, how he got new part during the battle? Do you really think with strike's with the same damage(without replacing part) could defeat kira?
...why are you trying to argue Strike vs Freedom? Because that's not even remotely similar to the argument proposed - especially when the Strike is shown to be an outdated POS by the end of Seed itself.

---

not really, dude if kira didnt shut down his nuclear power reactor, both shinn and him will died, which would be a draw.
No, actually. It doesn't work that way. Do you know what happens when one pierces a nuclear reactor? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
You see, a nuclear reactor is a contained reaction. If you pierce the container, the reaction will die - the only resulting explosion will be a steam-based one on modern reactors from the pressure released by the attack. And it's not even radioactive steam.

It would be a vastly different story if Kira's Freedom was powered by a nuclear bomb, but guess what? Those aren't made to power anything. A nuclear bomb is literally an explosion - completely different from the contained and controlled reaction made by the nuclear reactor.
THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS AND IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE EITHER WAY - THE FREEDOM WOULD NOT GO NUCLEAR FROM A REACTOR-PIERCING.

Oh, and finally?
You can't turn off a nuclear reactor in a split second. It's physically impossible, because a reaction of that level which provides energy needs to power down over a period of minutes - if not hours, depending on the size of them.
So this means there wasn't even a significance to the whole 'shutting down the reactor' shot.

Seed is built upon faulty science, but that's just the worst example.

[JujuXChoJu]

He did, blatantly so.
While it was not built to do so, by the fourth episode of the series, the Archangel was putting parts up on the catapult to launch out to Kira - letting him replace the Aile pack with the Launcher pack. This gave him a complete battery recharge... and considering the Strike+Pack setup gives him an already-extended battery, Kira has three battery charges to burn through overall while his enemies have one per unit.
It just gets worse when Mu and Kira start abusing the Skygrasper abilities in order to switch packs in mid-battle by dropping parts onto the Strike.

The Impulse took this one step further by design and intent. If you're going to claim Shin cheated by using what was designed and planned, Kira is infinitely worse.

OKay so.... during ep34, what is happening to the arch angel?






No, actually. It doesn't work that way. Do you know what happens when one pierces a nuclear reactor? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
You see, a nuclear reactor is a contained reaction. If you pierce the container, the reaction will die - the only resulting explosion will be a steam-based one on modern reactors from the pressure released by the attack. And it's not even radioactive steam.

It would be a vastly different story if Kira's Freedom was powered by a nuclear bomb, but guess what? Those aren't made to power anything. A nuclear bomb is literally an explosion - completely different from the contained and controlled reaction made by the nuclear reactor.
THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS AND IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE EITHER WAY - THE FREEDOM WOULD NOT GO NUCLEAR FROM A REACTOR-PIERCING.

Oh, and finally?
You can't turn off a nuclear reactor in a split second. It's physically impossible, because a reaction of that level which provides energy needs to power down over a period of minutes - if not hours, depending on the size of them.
So this means there wasn't even a significance to the whole 'shutting down the reactor' shot.

Seed is built upon faulty science, but that's just the worst example.
dude it's a anime :amuse anything is possible , most of the stuff in Gundam is faulty science.
And you can't not implies science from right now to the one in Gundam.
Well this is getting pointless, people have their own opinion, no matter what.
So ya....

[NewtypeS3]

OKay so.... during ep34, what is happening to the arch angel?
Destiny 34?
Fleeing from the entire army trying to destroy them. Kira, meanwhile, decides to completely ignore the whole point of his going out in the Freedom and fight the one person openly trying to kill him instead of the Archangel.

dude it's a anime :amuse anything is possible , most of the stuff in Gundam is faulty science.
You don't get to use that excuse when the entire franchise continually explains it's tech by using real-world science. Even though the CE has failed to explain why N-Jammers cancel out radio waves, nuclear science is still nuclear science - and it's something that doesn't change because it's an anime.

And you can't not implies science from right now to the one in Gundam.
...I can't not? So, since that's a complete double-negative, I can?
Further, 00 itself is also based somewhat in real-world science. And the 'magic' of the Twin Drive system is based in what we already knew about the GN-Drive, so it's a logical step-up rather than 'non-science.'

Well this is getting pointless, people have their own opinion, no matter what.
So ya....
Opinion doesn't account for people recalling episodes horribly wrong, much less getting their science wrong.

[LoneWolfFenrir]

Ahhhh.....This topic is really pointless because.......SHINN BEAT KIRA ALREADY

And NewTypeS3 clearly states the facts and supports them while Kira fan-boys just straight up hate Shinn, think Kira's god-like, or think Freedom/Strike Freedom is the best cause of beam spam. He's beating all the Kira boys by himself.

ALSO.....this is about Kira Yamato+ Freedom vs Shinn Asuka+Impulse/Destiny. I don't see Strike Freedom being mentioned in the poll so NO STRIKE FREEDOM HERE.

And in a personal opinion, Shinn takes the win because....

- He clearly has the mindset to kill while Kira is a pacifist. (It is a difference)
- He knows that Kira doesn't plan to kill him
- He knows where Kira would be aiming and shooting his beams
- He uses each move efficiently
- Impulse/Destiny is fit for all ranges of combat

[NewtypeS3]

And NewTypeS3 clearly states the facts and supports them while Kira fan-boys just straight up hate Shinn, think Kira's god-like, or think Freedom/Strike Freedom is the best cause of beam spam. He's beating all the Kira boys by himself.
One could almost say that I'm 'going Kira' on them. :laugh

[reiyne]

if its Kira/Freedom Vs Shin/Impulse, Id have to say Kira is MUCH better. You have to remember that when Shin beat Kira, Kira was NOT even trying to fight/ he wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do, the writers even point this out in his conversation with Athrun. Kira was trying to defend the Archangel from Minerva while holding off Shin, who had already done research on Kira's fighting style and prepared before hand. Plus taking into account that Kira never aims for the cockpit and ONLY for limbs, the Impluse was able to replace ANY part the freedom disabled.

Plus Kira is the "Ultimate" Coordinator, don't know if this actually improves his fighting skills, but its good to remember.

Now if its Kira/SF vs Shin/Destiny, I'd still say Kira. At this point in time Kira had already developed Newtypeish abilities and had developed a solid resolve on whether or not its the right thing to fight. And lets face it, even on their first encounter ON EARTH (SF can't use dragoons + i'm pretty sure it can't use HiMAT while the dragoons are still in), Kira could have killed Shin right when he caught his Beam Saber and shot him with his 2 railguns, if he had chosen to shoot the multi-phase beam cannon in its stomach, it would have shot right though the Destiny and killed shin right there... Shin even out right says this. Plus Destiny Gundam uses a Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor, giving it a much higher energy output, but for a VERY limited time. Compare this to SF's standard fission reactor, which is is STILL able to give a high enough output to power a spamming of its burst mode; a Hyper-Deuterion drive is not nearly used to its full potential and is only good for powering Destiny's WoL. Making the freakishly long dogfights between Destiny and SF go to SF cause the Fission reactor will last MUCH longer.

so to sum, I strongly believe that:
Kira+Freedom+Resolve SEED+Ultimate Coordinator VS Shin+Impluse+Anger SEED = Kira as a winner

Kira+SF+Resolve SEED+Ultimate Coordinator+Newtype VS Shin+Destiny+Anger SEED = Kira still as a winner

[NewtypeS3]

if its Kira/Freedom Vs Shin/Impulse, Id have to say Kira is MUCH better.
Care to explain why Kira lost in Destiny 34, then?

You have to remember that when Shin beat Kira, Kira was NOT even trying to fight/
...not trying to fight.
Despite fighting against those trying to sink the Archangel, by shooting at them.
Despite fighting against the Impulse by trying to shoot Shin down and openly trying to kill Shin.

Yeah, totally not fighting at all.

he wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do, the writers even point this out in his conversation with Athrun.
...except Kira was resolved to attack those attacking the Archangel, as he knew it was the right thing to do - to buy the AA enough time to escape. He also knew he was the only one who could do it, as the other pilots were necessary for a possible defense of Orb.

Kira was trying to defend the Archangel from Minerva while holding off Shin, who had already done research on Kira's fighting style and prepared before hand.
Because, you know, preparing for combat before you go out to fight is totally cheating.

Plus taking into account that Kira never aims for the cockpit and ONLY for limbs, the Impluse was able to replace ANY part the freedom disabled.
...there's a flaw in that reason. One I've already listed.
You see, Kira may not aim for the cockpit... but there's nothing stopping him from shooting down the replacement parts before they arrive at the Impulse! The entire concept of the Impulse is to replace parts if need-be, but they need to arrive at the Impulse in the first place in order to actually be of use.
This is why Shin made sure to kamikaze the broken parts on the Impulse at the Freedom to keep Kira off-balance as he asked for replacement parts. It doesn't explain why Kira simply sat around for another minute as Shin replaced the parts, but that's Kira for you.

Yes, the Impulse can replace parts. But it was designed to do so, much like how the Strike was designed to replace packs during a battle if the pilots are skilled enough.
However, it takes an excellent pilot in order to actually make use of the part replacement. Claiming it gives Shin a special advantage is utterly stupid.

Particularly when Kira has an infinite power source in his unit that somehow isn't considered an advantage by someone making the argument.

Plus Kira is the "Ultimate" Coordinator, don't know if this actually improves his fighting skills, but its good to remember.
...it doesn't mean anything.
It doesn't improve his fighting skills.
And no, it's not worth remembering.
Know why?

From Bandai's official and current Gundam website:
http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/background/glossary_misc.html#ultimate
Ultimate Coordinator
The final goal of the genetic engineers who created the Coordinators. Although Coordinators are mentally and physically superior to ordinary humans, their embryonic development is still affected by the environment of the mother's body. To eliminate this variable, the researcher Ulen Hibiki developed an artificial womb designed to produce biologically perfect children. The result would be the Ultimate Coordinator, whose every attribute could be scientifically controlled. Of the countless embryos which Hibiki used as test subjects for this artificial womb, his son Kira Yamato is believed to be the only survivor.
Now, let's analyze that really quick. What was the intent of the project? Making a way so a child's entire biology can be scientifically-controlled - they would not be superior, but instead come out as their parents want. This point is driven home to an insane degree when Rau is giving his final speech in Seed - where we see a mother cradling her newborn baby... and then she screeches about how "it's eyes are the wrong color".

Kira only came out from the project as his 'father' wanted him to. He has brown hair because Professor Hibiki wanted it that way. The same with the purple eyes and looking like a 12-year-old girl in the early episodes.

It means nothing in a fight, whatsoever.
Claiming it does just proves you never paid attention to the show.

Now if its Kira/SF vs Shin/Destiny, I'd still say Kira.
Kira could barely tie against Shin when Shin was missing his favorite weapons. There's a problem in your logic.

At this point in time Kira had already developed Newtypeish abilities
No, he didn't. Everyone involved in the show says that they were 'homages' to the concept of Newtypes and their Funnels back in the UC. Kira has never been a Newtype.
In fact, the Super DRAGOONs on the S-Freedom are based off the tech found on the Chaos, which lets anyone who isn't a Newtype to use them.

and had developed a solid resolve on whether or not its the right thing to fight.
Which, ironically, he had no problems running around and shooting down ZAFT and EA soldiers when he was 'unsure.'

And lets face it, even on their first encounter ON EARTH (SF can't use dragoons + i'm pretty sure it can't use HiMAT while the dragoons are still in),
You are right that the S-Freedom can't use DRAGOONs. However, you're wrong in the assumption that the S-Freedom has a Hi-MAT mode. It doesn't.
Further, with the DRAGOONs in place, it can't reach a remotely top-speed, as it's wings of light are restricted by those being in place.

Kira could have killed Shin right when he caught his Beam Saber and shot him with his 2 railguns, if he had chosen to shoot the multi-phase beam cannon in its stomach, it would have shot right though the Destiny and killed shin right there... Shin even out right says this.
...actually, you pretty much missed the point of that scene.
First off, considering where the Destiny was in position compared to the S-Freedom, the S-Freedom's stomach-cannon was aimed right at the tip of the shoulder-armor on the Destiny. At best, it would have caused minor damage to the Destiny, if not missing it completely. Kira couldn't use his other weaponry, as his hands were full of sword at the time, which left him only with the railguns.
Shin knew this, which is why he openly shouted out "if that was a beam, this would be over, is that what you think?" as a taunt. He was taunting Kira because he knew Kira could only use the ineffective weapons.

Plus Destiny Gundam uses a Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor, giving it a much higher energy output, but for a VERY limited time.
...and the S-Freedom has the exact same thing. That's right! The S-Freedom, iJustice, Destiny and Legend all have the Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor. And no, it doesn't do what you claim it does.
The Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor is a way of side-stepping the "No-Nuclear-Powered-Mobile-Suits" rules - putting in a nuclear reactor fill up a proverbial 'Deuterion gas-tank' inside the suit. This allows for the unit to have theoretically-unlimited power... but if the mobile suit winds up using up too much energy, it's fucked over until the power fill is faster than the energy consumption again.[/quote]

[Will continue my reply on the next post, as I've hit a text-limit.]

[NewtypeS3]

Compare this to SF's standard fission reactor,
...except it doesn't have one. How do I know? Here's the links to the official mechanical profiles, archived on MAHQ from the actual official information Bandai and Sunrise have published in publications all over the place.

The Destiny: (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x42s.htm)
Powerplant: ultracompact hyper deuterion nuclear reactor, power output rating unknown
The Legend: (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x666s.htm)
Powerplant: ultracompact hyper deuterion nuclear reactor, power output rating unknown
The Strike-Freedom: (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x20a.htm)
Powerplant: ultracompact hyper deuterion nuclear reactor, power output rating unknown
The Infinite Justice: (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/seed-destiny/zgmf-x19a.htm)
Powerplant: ultracompact hyper deuterion nuclear reactor, power output rating unknown
...hey, look! The same power source on all of them! This negates most of your argument, which is based off completely wrong information!

which is is STILL able to give a high enough output to power a spamming of its burst mode; a Hyper-Deuterion drive is not nearly used to its full potential and is only good for powering Destiny's WoL. Making the freakishly long dogfights between Destiny and SF go to SF cause the Fission reactor will last MUCH longer.
...and before I laugh at the rest of your argument, I feel I should add this last information. You know that scene upon which you're basing everything, where the Destiny supposedly runs out of power?
Yeah, it's been retconned completely out of existence. The Destiny movie compilations have removed that scene and instead replaced it with Rey saying Shin needs to replenish his missing parts. And considering Shin's missing the ASS and his saberangs, it makes perfect sense.

And, considering the S-Freedom has been retconned to have wings of light, it should actually be running out of power far quicker than the Destiny ever would.
You might want to do research before claiming things at random. It really helps in the long run, and prevents you from looking like an utter fool when you run into someone who does do the research.

so to sum, I strongly believe that:
Kira+Freedom+Resolve SEED+Ultimate Coordinator VS Shin+Impluse+Anger SEED = Kira as a winner
...which is hilarious, as Kira lost quite blatantly.

Kira+SF+Resolve SEED+Ultimate Coordinator+Newtype VS Shin+Destiny+Anger SEED = Kira still as a winner
...which is doubly-hilarious as Kira could barely tie with Shin when Shin was missing half his weaponry and was forced to keep to long-range combat - something Shin is worse off at and Kira excels at.

Further, just to reiterate, Kira's not a Newtype. He never has been, never will be, and even Sunrise, Bandai and the director of this show itself have said that Kira isn't one.
Whoops!

[pek]

Care to explain why Kira lost in Destiny 34, then?Because he didn't try to kill him. He was avoiding the cockpit; Shinn knew about this and took advantage of it.

Don't care much for technical details about their engines throughout the series but to me it really did sound as if everyone in the series thought Kira superior, even shinn himself. He saw himself as the underdog; Kira acknowledged Shinns strength though.

[vegitabo]

lol, this guy has a lot time on his hands. And why is a thread almost old as me still here O_o either way, the poll is 100-22 in Kira's favor :P

[Zetta]

Jesus Yamato strikes again.

CE suits piss me off since the writer never felt it nessecary to add the generator output... instead of doing something so basic, he had to shit around with PHASE SHIFT, DRAGOONS, METEOR (all in caps, of course...).

Of course, who has time for basic stats when the suits can be powered by plot.

[NewtypeS3]

Quite, Zetta.
lol, this guy has a lot time on his hands. And why is a thread almost old as me still here O_o either way, the poll is 100-22 in Kira's favor :P
...which only proves that people like Kira more - it doesn't mean Kira's better. After all, Destiny proved Shin is better than Kira.

[Tranquil Fury]

Kira fanboys/girls are nonsensical and Utter fools like their fav character. Newtype gets 500+ points of respect, he's like Zechs fighting off a 120 suits by himself.

[Zetta]

Because he didn't try to kill him. He was avoiding the cockpit; Shinn knew about this and took advantage of it.

Don't care much for technical details about their engines throughout the series but to me it really did sound as if everyone in the series thought Kira superior, even shinn himself. He saw himself as the underdog; Kira acknowledged Shinns strength though.

Pilot skills only matter when the suits themselves are evenly matched.

Considering both suits are powered by the power of plot, debating this battle is nonsensical. Freedom/Destiny will always be AS strong as the plot needs it to be.

That's why the output of both suits is rated as Unknown on every spec sheet. So hardcores can't cry foul when they do feats that better pilots in similairly powered suits couldn't.

As for the pilots, if we were to put them in equal suits (like say, GOUFs), I would give it to Kira, just because he has more overal experience than Shinn.
Sidenote: Seed mode < newtype flash. And from what I hear, Tomino gets pissed everytime some calls Rau a newtype so the granddaddy of Gundam agrees.

[NewtypeS3]

I do disagree with you on who would win in a GOUF-fight (Shin loves his melee, after all), Zetta, but you do have a solid point in that Kira should have more experience at the end of Destiny compared to end-Destiny Shin.

[Zetta]

Wasn't the GOUF an all-rounder though? Sure, the GOUF has a heatrod but it also has those finger guns. Think that should work nicely when comparing them.

I'm actually waiting on a databook that gives some arbitrary score to their pilot skills. (Like giving Char an S is mobillity for instance. :ho)

That said, I'm never a fan in giving them their original suits in fights if you're gonna compare pilots. If you think they're really skilled, they should have no problem winning even in a mook suit like a Zaku II. I mean, we saw how many times Char was nearly able to beat Amuro even though he was outspecced by far.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

Wasn't the GOUF an all-rounder though? Sure, the GOUF has a heatrod but it also has those finger guns. Think that should work nicely when comparing them.

I'm actually waiting on a databook that gives some arbitrary score to their pilot skills. (Like giving Char an S is mobillity for instance. :ho)

That said, I'm never a fan in giving them their original suits in fights if you're gonna compare pilots. If you think they're really skilled, they should have no problem winning even in a mook suit like a Zaku II. I mean, we saw how many times Char was nearly able to beat Amuro even though he was outspecced by far.

In a GOUF, Shinn would win due to his preference of close combat. He even developed trick maneuvers in flight in order to use the Force-Silhouette pack to its greatest potential (the maneuver where as he's a decent distance he takes out a beam saber, uses his shield to block as he veers either left or right while coming towards the target, then suddenly veers to the oppisite side while moving up, and within a split second that no grunt[or possibly anyone without experience or genetic enhancement] could make, he he thrusts straight through the opponent, cleaving them in half). GOUF's were meant for close range as most of their equipment in close-mid range. Only a GOUF-Custom (8th M.S. Team) are really known to use longer range weapons that have a great use at mid-range as well.

Now if we're talking all around basic, give them a Zaku. Not a Zaku II, a plain old, piece of scrap Zaku I. I would say the Ball, but as Shiro showed us, the Ball is one of the most powerful MA's in the shows history. :kaga


Overall, I'd still pick Shinn. Kira ain't gunna change his tactics anytime soon. The only time you'll ever fear him is in a battleship. Because he likes him those crew members that are KILLED IN VICIOUS FIRES/HOLES OPENED IN THE SHIPS CAUSING THEM TO SUFFOCATE AND BLOW UP IN A TERRIBLY PAINFUL FASHION THAT MAY, OR MAY NOT, BE WORSE THAN BEING SET ON FIRE WITH NO HOPE OF LIVING WHATSOEVER!!! Because he's the good guy, right. :xzaru

[Zetta]

The Zaku wasn't meant for MS combat. It was created for use against tanks and planes.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

The Zaku wasn't meant for MS combat. It was created for use against tanks and planes.

And thats why IT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!!

[Tre_azam]

wow what an old thread

[Zetta]

wow what an old thread

wow what a useless post

[LightMaster]

*Cracks Knuckles* Howdy Howdy Newtype. You know how I role, so I'll just jump into how Kira is superior to Shinn, regardless of what Fukada flaked on, wanted to be, or had done.

Care to explain why Kira lost in Destiny 34, then?

Because Shinn studied him like Kira the SAT. It's not cheating, but it's not some great show of his own abilities, and it's not even as if the studying of Kira and Freedom was his idea, it was Rey's. How much of the strategy used was even solely Shinn's, when did Rey clock-out on the assisting Shinn beat Kira.

Kira also never stops trying to run away, like, ever.

Can you explain why anytime after that it was at best a tie, and at least once Kira avoided killing Shinn when he had the full ability too.

Despite fighting against those trying to sink the Archangel, by shooting at them.
Despite fighting against the Impulse by trying to shoot Shin down and openly trying to kill Shin.
Yeah, totally not fighting at all.

Oh, sure he was certainly trying to fight against the numerous grunt units that were hassling the Arch Angel prior to the Minerva's arrival. The problem being he wasn't trying to fight Shinn because he wasn't a direct thread to the Arch Angel, the second wave of attacking Grunts and the Minerva itself kept his attention on getting back to the Arch Angel... not on fighting Shinn.

Even prior to his alleged shot at Shinn's Cockpit he's doing nothing but trying to get away, backpedaling. After that he's just trying to get away still, Kira never does anything but try to get away.

This isn't some grand testament to Shinn's ability, it's Kira attempting to escape while Shinn is hellbent on destroying him.

except Kira was resolved to attack those attacking the Archangel, as he knew it was the right thing to do - to buy the AA enough time to escape. He also knew he was the only one who could do it, as the other pilots were necessary for a possible defense of Orb.


Exactly. He was more worried about the Direct threats to his ship. Not about some annoying pilot with displaced Anger. As he's constantly attempting to get back to the Arch Angel to defend it.

Because, you know, preparing for combat before you go out to fight is totally cheating.

And yet, no one called it cheating, just not some example of Shinn's superiority. When they actually fight minus some massive study fest, and without something to distract Kira... well.

You see, Kira may not aim for the cockpit... but there's nothing stopping him from shooting down the replacement parts before they arrive at the Impulse! The entire concept of the Impulse is to replace parts if need-be, but they need to arrive at the Impulse in the first place in order to actually be of use.
This is why Shin made sure to kamikaze the broken parts on the Impulse at the Freedom to keep Kira off-balance as he asked for replacement parts. It doesn't explain why Kira simply sat around for another minute as Shin replaced the parts, but that's Kira for you.

Because at least once Kira's busy falling out of the sky, if Shinn replaced parts outside of that one time... gonna need to know when. If you mean after that explosion, I don't know what that came from, and we never see what needs to be replaced or how it's done... But since Kira is trying to get back to AA when he get back to the two... yeah.

Yes, the Impulse can replace parts. But it was designed to do so, much like how the Strike was designed to replace packs during a battle if the pilots are skilled enough.
However, it takes an excellent pilot in order to actually make use of the part replacement. Claiming it gives Shin a special advantage is utterly stupid.


It's not utterly stupid, it's utterly correct, just the same as the fact that only a good pilot can take advantage of it... but considering how much planning prior to the battle probably had to go into it... yeah, take it with a grain of salt, in my opinion.

Particularly when Kira has an infinite power source in his unit that somehow isn't considered an advantage by someone making the argument.


Of course that's an advantage too. In the same way that the fact that Impulses shield has EDA... they both have "advantages" over one another.

Kira could barely tie against Shin when Shin was missing his favorite weapons. There's a problem in your logic.


When was this, certainly not anytime after that -one- time Kira first dropped down to Earth. If memory serves every time after that it was a tie only up until Rey came in and kept Kira from beating Shinn.

No, he didn't. Everyone involved in the show says that they were 'homages' to the concept of Newtypes and their Funnels back in the UC. Kira has never been a Newtype.
In fact, the Super DRAGOONs on the S-Freedom are based off the tech found on the Chaos, which lets anyone who isn't a Newtype to use them.


The simple fact is he has constantly shown Newtype like abilities, in situations where they directly lead to an action. Sensing disturbances and other Newtypes. Regardless of his label, he has shown through both series abilities like them.


Shin knew this, which is why he openly shouted out "if that was a beam, this would be over, is that what you think?" as a taunt. He was taunting Kira because he knew Kira could only use the ineffective weapons.

Your source might be more official then my own. But it has Shinn saying something more like: "Is that what you want to say"; rather then something like a taunt.

Lastly, regardless of if THAT could have killed Shinn. If Kira had so chosen, and Rey hadn't been hanging around to save his life... Kira could have just as much put a beam through Shinn's back after he kicked him away.

which is doubly-hilarious as Kira could barely tie with Shin when Shin was missing half his weaponry and was forced to keep to long-range combat - something Shin is worse off at and Kira excels at.

Kira excels at all ranges of combat, he's certainly no worse then Shinn at melee, as proven when he completely disarms him -in- melee. As well as matching him in melee nearly anytime it comes down to it, everytime. Space, Earth; Impulse or Destiny- I don't think you or I can pull out any time Shinn was boss sauce in comparison to Kira.

Anyway, it was just the two of them screwing around really. Firing, dodging and defending. Saying barely tie with Shinn makes it seem as if Shinn had Kira on the ropes... which happened exactly once when he first pulled out his High-Speed movement.

which only proves that people like Kira more - it doesn't mean Kira's better. After all, Destiny proved Shin is better than Kira.

Except it didn't. You can't even pull up multiple examples of Shinn beating Kira.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

*Cracks Knuckles* Howdy Howdy Newtype. You know how I role, so I'll just jump into how Kira is superior to Shinn, regardless of what Fukada flaked on, wanted to be, or had done.



Because Shinn studied him like Kira the SAT. It's not cheating, but it's not some great show of his own abilities, and it's not even as if the studying of Kira and Freedom was his idea, it was Rey's. How much of the strategy used was even solely Shinn's, when did Rey clock-out on the assisting Shinn beat Kira.

Kira also never stops trying to run away, like, ever.

Can you explain why anytime after that it was at best a tie, and at least once Kira avoided killing Shinn when he had the full ability too.



Oh, sure he was certainly trying to fight against the numerous grunt units that were hassling the Arch Angel prior to the Minerva's arrival. The problem being he wasn't trying to fight Shinn because he wasn't a direct thread to the Arch Angel, the second wave of attacking Grunts and the Minerva itself kept his attention on getting back to the Arch Angel... not on fighting Shinn.

Even prior to his alleged shot at Shinn's Cockpit he's doing nothing but trying to get away, backpedaling. After that he's just trying to get away still, Kira never does anything but try to get away.

This isn't some grand testament to Shinn's ability, it's Kira attempting to escape while Shinn is hellbent on destroying him.



Exactly. He was more worried about the Direct threats to his ship. Not about some annoying pilot with displaced Anger. As he's constantly attempting to get back to the Arch Angel to defend it.



And yet, no one called it cheating, just not some example of Shinn's superiority. When they actually fight minus some massive study fest, and without something to distract Kira... well.



Because at least once Kira's busy falling out of the sky, if Shinn replaced parts outside of that one time... gonna need to know when. If you mean after that explosion, I don't know what that came from, and we never see what needs to be replaced or how it's done... But since Kira is trying to get back to AA when he get back to the two... yeah.



It's not utterly stupid, it's utterly correct, just the same as the fact that only a good pilot can take advantage of it... but considering how much planning prior to the battle probably had to go into it... yeah, take it with a grain of salt, in my opinion.



Of course that's an advantage too. In the same way that the fact that Impulses shield has EDA... they both have "advantages" over one another.



When was this, certainly not anytime after that -one- time Kira first dropped down to Earth. If memory serves every time after that it was a tie only up until Rey came in and kept Kira from beating Shinn.



The simple fact is he has constantly shown Newtype like abilities, in situations where they directly lead to an action. Sensing disturbances and other Newtypes. Regardless of his label, he has shown through both series abilities like them.



Your source might be more official then my own. But it has Shinn saying something more like: "Is that what you want to say"; rather then something like a taunt.

Lastly, regardless of if THAT could have killed Shinn. If Kira had so chosen, and Rey hadn't been hanging around to save his life... Kira could have just as much put a beam through Shinn's back after he kicked him away.



Kira excels at all ranges of combat, he's certainly no worse then Shinn at melee, as proven when he completely disarms him -in- melee. As well as matching him in melee nearly anytime it comes down to it, everytime. Space, Earth; Impulse or Destiny- I don't think you or I can pull out any time Shinn was boss sauce in comparison to Kira.

Anyway, it was just the two of them screwing around really. Firing, dodging and defending. Saying barely tie with Shinn makes it seem as if Shinn had Kira on the ropes... which happened exactly once when he first pulled out his High-Speed movement.



Except it didn't. You can't even pull up multiple examples of Shinn beating Kira.


Let me summarize this for myself and if I'm wrong, point it out.

1.) Your saying that Shinn was in fact, not a great pilot because he had looked into the Freedom's battle tactics before hand. Kay. Now lets take your example of the SAT. If a genious (IQ 140+)and a person with an IQ of 80-89 study the EXACT same amount of material of the SAT, who would do better? Its not that Shinn read up on Kira, its that he was able to put it into combat overnight to the point where he didn't even have to change the trajectory of his MS, only moving the parts he PREDICTED KIRA WOULD SHOOT! THAT is skill. Pure and simple.

2) Your saying Kira was distracted/couldn't give his full effort or attention because the Arcangel was being bombarded by grunts and other attack vessels. Okay, that has a valid point. But here's the deal, a pilot isn't just somebody with the skill to fly or operate machinery, from a plane to an MS. Its also equally about, if not more important, JUDGEMENT. Watch almost ANY movie or ask ANY pilot, and they can tell/show you a hot-shot pilot with amazing skill. Unfortunately, said hot-shot doesn't have the judgement necessary to operate their unit. For movie's example, take Top Gun (cliched, I know). Maverick disobeys orders and protocol in order to save a fellow pilot and navigator when the fellow pilot has complete breakdown on the return flight. Maverick should've been reprimanded if not held for court marshal. But because he JUDGED the situation correctly, he was let off. If Kira was really so great, then he would've judged the scenario better, taken down Shinn and then proceeded to take down the units attacking the Archangel. But because he couldn't keep Shinn down, he failed to do so. And then tried to run away from the battle which led to the Freedom falling down the snowy mountain like a LOSER.

3) At Kira "killing" Shinn: LAWL. There were multiple instances where they were dead-locked with the S.F. and the Destiny. Re-watch they're fights before you spout of shit like "Kira could have just as much put a beam through Shinn's back after he kicked him away." (Taken from above quote). Also, when Rey entered the fight between Kira and Shinn at ORB, I distintively remember Kira being pushed back to the point when he lost control of the SF and Shinn had him dead-centered locked on with his M2000GX high-energy long-range beam cannon, which has the power to OBLITERATE BATTLE SHIPS!

4) you think Kira is a New-Type despite the fact that Fudaka (SEED/Destiny's director), Tomino (The CREATOR of the franchise and the man who CREATED the New-Type), Sunrise (The studio that employs both said men and has the COPYRIGHTS to the entire Gundam Franchise) have all come out and said KIRA IS NOT A NEW-TYPE!!! But because of the homages that Fudaka put in to honor the original series and create a similar atmosphere to it, you say that they are all WRONG. Okay. But there's an issue with your DRAGOON argument. There are several other suits that use these technologies. Chaos, Providence (they said Rau and Mu weren't New-Types but rather the connection between them is because of the genetic mutations as Rau is a clone of Mu's father), Legend (Ray is also a copy of Mu's father), and other suits from side series. They all utilize the DRAGOON system and NONE of them are New-Types. New-Types exist ONLY in U.C.(MS Gundam, Zeta, ZZeta, Turn-A, etc.), not in C.E. Sorry to burst the bubble.


Everything else you wrote is particular beef with NewtypeS3.

[LightMaster]

Your saying that Shinn was in fact, not a great pilot because he had looked into the Freedom's battle tactics before hand. Kay. Now lets take your example of the SAT. If a genious (IQ 140+)and a person with an IQ of 80-89 study the EXACT same amount of material of the SAT, who would do better? Its not that Shinn read up on Kira, its that he was able to put it into combat overnight to the point where he didn't even have to change the trajectory of his MS, only moving the parts he PREDICTED KIRA WOULD SHOOT! THAT is skill. Pure and simple.

Don't really care if Shinn is a great pilot or not, this is about if he's better then Kira, plain and simple. Shinn could be hailed as one of the best pilots to ever pop their head out of Gundam... he still wouldn't be better then Kira with any proof that's been provided here. The simple fact is, this were special circumstances, Shinn knew he'd be facing Kira in the very near future, Shinn had the data and recordings to call on, and that simply doesn't happen to often. Plus, again... not even his idea. Simply this, so far as I can tell, Shinn's counters were all planned out... it'd be tons more impressive if he could have thought that stuff up on the fly.

Shinn... just isn't better then Kira, as proven when they're actually on a more even footing. Even when Shinn has the advantage of being able to get his full mobility on Earth and Kira doesn't... he gets an upper hand for what, a single scene- and you never see THAT footage reused between the two again, do you?

Your saying Kira was distracted/couldn't give his full effort or attention because the Arcangel was being bombarded by grunts and other attack vessels. Okay, that has a valid point. But here's the deal, a pilot isn't just somebody with the skill to fly or operate machinery, from a plane to an MS. Its also equally about, if not more important, JUDGEMENT. Watch almost ANY movie or ask ANY pilot, and they can tell/show you a hot-shot pilot with amazing skill. Unfortunately, said hot-shot doesn't have the judgement necessary to operate their unit. For movie's example, take Top Gun (cliched, I know). Maverick disobeys orders and protocol in order to save a fellow pilot and navigator when the fellow pilot has complete breakdown on the return flight. Maverick should've been reprimanded if not held for court marshal. But because he JUDGED the situation correctly, he was let off. If Kira was really so great, then he would've judged the scenario better, taken down Shinn and then proceeded to take down the units attacking the Archangel. But because he couldn't keep Shinn down, he failed to do so. And then tried to run away from the battle which led to the Freedom falling down the snowy mountain like a LOSER.

The problem being that Shinn was so studied up on Kira and the Freedom that Kira COULDN'T just get away from Shinn with his NORMAL mode of Operation, as in disabling. Normally, he'd have been back with the Arch Angel the moment Shinn swing his Saber and had it ducked under and his right arm and head got removed. But yes, I agree, Kira had poor judgment because he didn't just switch it up THAT very moment and instead of the arm and head... didn't just swing for the cockpit.

Regardless of any of that, Kira never once came off as trying to put up a real fight, it was at best attempts to hastily disable Impulse so he could get to Arch Angel.

At Kira "killing" Shinn: LAWL. There were multiple instances where they were dead-locked with the S.F. and the Destiny. Re-watch they're fights before you spout of shit like "Kira could have just as much put a beam through Shinn's back after he kicked him away." (Taken from above quote). Also, when Rey entered the fight between Kira and Shinn at ORB, I distintively remember Kira being pushed back to the point when he lost control of the SF and Shinn had him dead-centered locked on with his M2000GX high-energy long-range beam cannon, which has the power to OBLITERATE BATTLE SHIPS!

... I did, and You didn't say anything refutting what I said about shooting him in the back- because it's right on the nose. Kira could have ended his life right then and there, if he rolled like that, and Rey hadn't been along to save his life. Also keep in mind that you can't even point out a time where Shinn and Shinn alone had a shot at killing Kira, as in dead to rights without outside help; but you CAN point out where Shinn had him dead to rights, unable for Kira to escape without help... because Rey set it up for him. So I guess your point is that it takes Shinn And Rey to beat Kira.

you think Kira is a New-Type despite the fact that Fudaka (SEED/Destiny's director), Tomino (The CREATOR of the franchise and the man who CREATED the New-Type), Sunrise (The studio that employs both said men and has the COPYRIGHTS to the entire Gundam Franchise) have all come out and said KIRA IS NOT A NEW-TYPE!!! But because of the homages that Fudaka put in to honor the original series and create a similar atmosphere to it, you say that they are all WRONG. Okay. But there's an issue with your DRAGOON argument. There are several other suits that use these technologies. Chaos, Providence (they said Rau and Mu weren't New-Types but rather the connection between them is because of the genetic mutations as Rau is a clone of Mu's father), Legend (Ray is also a copy of Mu's father), and other suits from side series. They all utilize the DRAGOON system and NONE of them are New-Types. New-Types exist ONLY in U.C.(MS Gundam, Zeta, ZZeta, Turn-A, etc.), not in C.E. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Uh... what. All the Flaga's and Flaga clones are Newtypes, they're the ONLY people labeled Newtypes officially in CE. I'd need to see some sort of SOURCE on Bandai coming out and saying anything about Kira and being a Newtype, I've seen Fukada's, but never anything from Bandai. Also... never called them wrong, and never said Kira was a Newtype, I said he had abilities that were LIKE Newtypes, and they lead DIRECTLY to substantial actions in the animation.

He SENSED Raw in SEED, and that DIRECTLY lead to them fighting, He SENSED Ray's DRAGOON's and that DIRECTLY lead to his avoiding them when he wasn't paying any attention to anything but they leaving Destiny. Homage my ass, he may not be a NT, but he's rolling around with shit that's usually linked to being a Newtype.

[Zetta]

I hate GS and GSD debates...

Normally, any Gundam debate can be resolved by checking the specs of the MSes and comparing the pilots...

Guess why this doesn't work here?

[Sander RX]

Guess why this doesn't work here?
Scarcity of MS specs?

Too much fanboys?

@LightMaster:Newtype Flash has always been there as a visual effect for the viewers.Its just an idicator of something drastic happening for the viewership.
PS:Remember how communication with Fllay's ghost turned out not to be a communication at all?

[Darth]

hold on a moment, why does Shinn get the Destiny but we leave Kira with the Freedom? IMO the Destiny is the more capable gundam, even though Kira is a better pilot he still has a horrible disadvantage.

strike Freedom = Destiny Gundam IMO.

[Tre_azam]

wow what a useless post

your face is a useless post :huh

[Zetta]

Scarcity of MS specs?

Too much fanboys?

Close.

The specs of the Seed and Destiny Gundams are riddled with the words: Power Rating Unknown.

Basically, the writers just increase the power of the suits when the plot demands it and decrease it later for the same reason if they need drama. Hence power rating unknown since the japanese fans are very quick to bitch if a Gundam does something it shouldn't be able to do. The suits run on a generator powered by plotdevice and shitty writing.

As for the pilots, bingo!


your face is a useless post :huh
Your mom is a useless post :LOS

[JujuXChoJu]

people forget, how good was kira in gs.

[DeathGuise_of_Oblivion]

people forget, how good was kira in gs.

I just remembered how the manliest character in the series died saving his ship in an outdated suit (by that time) and how they brought him back for no fucking reason after they showed his helmet floating in space, cracked and bloodied, thus negating the entire point of his sacrifice! That and Kira magically surviving a self-destructing gundam in his face and was able to be slipped into ZAFT territory in WAR TIME WHEN EVERY GODDAM THING IS ON HIGH ALERT!!! NATURALS GOING INTO FUCKING SEED MODE BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN HOW A SHITTY PILOT CAN TAKE OUT A DRUGGIE!!! AND ALL THE NAKED PEOPLE FLOATING IN GODDAM PINK FUCKING SPACE!!!!!
:gun:argh:gun

At least 00 made it blue and green.

But I remember some good fights. How awesome the meteor was before it was turned into re-hashed garbage. Yeah, I'd give SEED a good.

Kira? Yeah, at the end of SEED his character ARC was completed. I was happy with the character as a whole, not a few things but whatever. Then he comes into Destiny and his character gets retarded. The fact that he's supposed to be the main character at the end and has some of the least amount of lines is fucking ludicrous! HE HAD NO POINT BUT TO FUCK UP EVERYTHING AND MESS WITH EVERYONE!!! God, Destiny had a terrible staff.

[JujuXChoJu]

I just remembered how the manliest character in the series died saving his ship in an outdated suit (by that time) and how they brought him back for no fucking reason after they showed his helmet floating in space, cracked and bloodied, thus negating the entire point of his sacrifice! That and Kira magically surviving a self-destructing gundam in his face and was able to be slipped into ZAFT territory in WAR TIME WHEN EVERY GODDAM THING IS ON HIGH ALERT!!! NATURALS GOING INTO FUCKING SEED MODE BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN HOW A SHITTY PILOT CAN TAKE OUT A DRUGGIE!!! AND ALL THE NAKED PEOPLE FLOATING IN GODDAM PINK FUCKING SPACE!!!!! :gun:argh:gun
a lot of the same thing happen in almost every gundam series

[Zetta]

a lot of the same thing happen in almost every gundam series

Amuro's role in Zeta Gundam was awesomely done though.

[Kirarox]

I just remembered how the manliest character in the series died saving his ship in an outdated suit (by that time) and how they brought him back for no fucking reason after they showed his helmet floating in space, cracked and bloodied, thus negating the entire point of his sacrifice! That and Kira magically surviving a self-destructing gundam in his face and was able to be slipped into ZAFT territory in WAR TIME WHEN EVERY GODDAM THING IS ON HIGH ALERT!!! NATURALS GOING INTO FUCKING SEED MODE BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN HOW A SHITTY PILOT CAN TAKE OUT A DRUGGIE!!! AND ALL THE NAKED PEOPLE FLOATING IN GODDAM PINK FUCKING SPACE!!!!! :gun:argh:gun

At least 00 made it blue and green.

But I remember some good fights. How awesome the meteor was before it was turned into re-hashed garbage. Yeah, I'd give SEED a good.

Kira? Yeah, at the end of SEED his character ARC was completed. I was happy with the character as a whole, not a few things but whatever. Then he comes into Destiny and his character gets retarded. The fact that he's supposed to be the main character at the end and has some of the least amount of lines is fucking ludicrous! HE HAD NO POINT BUT TO FUCK UP EVERYTHING AND MESS WITH EVERYONE!!! God, Destiny had a terrible staff.


The guy was Mu La Flaga(Kira's mentor in GS)

[Kirarox]

Freedom NEVER even fought Destiny. I would go straight to Strike Freedom. In ep42, Kira pwns Shinn ass easily. NEED I TO REMEBER TO TELL YOU SHINN SURRPORTERS THAT KIRA WASN'T FIGHTING HIS FULL POWER AND IN EP 42 HE DID!
THE END!

[Kirarox]

Also, no one can say Impulse outclasses Freedom. How can you say that a Gundam which runs on crappy batteries with a poor pilot, fight with JESUS YAMATO'S ALMIGHTY FREEDOM!! Shinn beat kira just because of Rey. AND JESUS YAMATO'S ALMIGHTY FREEDOM RUNS ON INFINITIE POWER AND HAS A NUKE REACTOR!!

[sazabi24]

Also, no one can say Impulse outclasses Freedom. How can you say that a Gundam which runs on crappy batteries with a poor pilot, fight with JESUS YAMATO'S ALMIGHTY FREEDOM!! Shinn beat kira just because of Rey. AND JESUS YAMATO'S ALMIGHTY FREEDOM RUNS ON INFINITIE POWER AND HAS A NUKE REACTOR!!

there is something called an edit button.....

shinn is more skilled, but has anger management issues

[LightMaster]

there is something called an edit button.....

shinn is more skilled, but has anger management issues

Prove it good sir. I eagerly await this "More skill" you speak of.

[Zetta]

Skill is hardly an issue when you're piloting a custom suit especially tailored to your strengths and weaknesses.

What matters in that scenario is experience and Kira has more of it than Shinn. If only because Jesus Yamato failed his way through two wars while Shinn only had a chance to fail through one war.

[Darth]

Skill is hardly an issue when you're piloting a custom suit especially tailored to your strengths and weaknesses.

What matters in that scenario is experience and Kira has more of it than Shinn. If only because Jesus Yamato failed his way through two wars while Shinn only had a chance to fail through one war.

Even so, this is a one on one battle.

Putting aside PIS and CIS Kira should be able to win.

Even though the Destiny has better specs then the Freedom I think.

[Zetta]

Even so, this is a one on one battle.

Putting aside PIS and CIS Kira should be able to win.

Even though the Destiny has better specs then the Freedom I think.

You'll be hardpressed to prove that considering no Seed mecha have a generator output rating.