Even Though Lee Is Known For It, Wouldn't You Say Naruto....

[Divinstrosity]

...works JUST as hard as Lee does??

[jameshawking]

Umhm. But his efforts are spread into a bunch of different categories. lee's are just 1

[niyesuH]

ehm how is using somebody elses chakra hard work?

[ArAshI-sensei]

He probably does, but without the green spandex (thank the heavens :D)

[Miklos]

He probably does, but without the green spandex (thank the heavens :D)

I think Naruto will look hot in the green spandex :nuts
J/K

[Divinstrosity]

ehm how is using somebody elses chakra hard work?

Well, despite that, it takes a great deal of work for him to learn what he does, considering he's not exactly the fastest learner out there...

[Shamandalie]

Well, I think Lee trains more than Naruto, but Naruto is pretty hardworking as well. Iruka himself said so during the first chapter if I'm not mistaken.

[lyrs_amv]

Lee trains more than Naruto

[9Tail-Hokage]

ehm how is using somebody elses chakra hard work?
Ignorance is always bliss.

Yes, how is struggling to control a very powerful chakra that's completely foreign to your own chakra, as well as your body, hard work? How is struggling to keep a monster from emerging and taking in your own body hard at all? It's easy doing that! Not hard at all! It's easy as counting to ten, even!

Right. Anyway, one can make a case that Naruto works as hard at ninjutsu (and occasionally genjutsu) than Lee does at taijutsu. Lee looks like the hardest worker ever because he can only focus solely on the physical taijutsu. Since it's physical body work, people may some simply assume that training just as arduously and strenuously at ninjutsu isn't possible—which Naruto definitely does—which is erroneous of course. jameshawking touched upon something. Though primarily a ninjutsu user, Naruto has to be at least effective enough in taijutsu and genjutsu as well. Something that someone like Lee has nothing to worry about.

[Deniz]

Pretty much yes. But after the intoduction of "kage bunshin accelerated training", he will never need to train as much as Lee to make the same amount of progress.

[raibbhani]

Well, Lee hard works can't be compared to anyone but certainly Naruto did train hard.

[Kwheeler]

Sure, he probably works just as hard as Lee.

But Gai doesnt refer to Naruto as a Genius of Hard Work. And Naruto has yet to fully tap his "Springtime of Youth"!

[niyesuH]

Ignorance is always bliss.

Yes, how is struggling to control a very powerful chakra that's completely foreign to your own chakra, as well as your body, hard work? How is struggling to keep a monster from emerging and taking in your own body hard at all? It's easy doing that! Not hard at all! It's easy as counting to ten, even!


... you can call me ignorant but it doesnt change the fact that Naruto is useless... he training is equal to 1000 year and still he is weak... give that much chakra to a genius like Orochimaru... he would become a ''god'' within a month

[9Tail-Hokage]

... you can call me ignorant but it doesnt change the fact that Naruto is useless...
Yes. Defeating an Akatsuki and having Kakashi compare Naruto to himself makes one incredibly useless.
he training is equal to 1000 year and still he is weak...
Of course. Being at least as strong as Kakashi is ridiculously weak.
give that much chakra to a genius like Orochimaru... he would become a ''god'' within a month
Too bad Naruto's Sharingan buddy got to him before your plans for Orochimaru could be realized.

[niyesuH]

Yes. Defeating an Akatsuki and having Kakashi compare Naruto to himself makes one incredibly useless.

yes thnx to the Kyuubi... which u said was nothing but trouble to Naruto just...

Of course. Being at least as strong as Kakashi is ridiculously weak.

compare his amount of training with that of Sasuke...

Too bad Naruto's Sharingan buddy got to him before your plans for Orochimaru could be realized.

my point is still valid

[DeepThought]

Naruto sleeps.. so no.

[raibbhani]

@niyesuh: So Sasuke can use CS, drugs and anything else to become stronger while Naruto can't use his "weapon" the Kyuubi chakra only to become stronger? Thats my friend is using an abilities given to him, exploiting it just like Sasuke exploiting his CS.

[King Scoop]

@niyesuh: So Sasuke can use CS, drugs and anything else to become stronger while Naruto can't use his "weapon" the Kyuubi chakra only to become stronger? Thats my friend is using an abilities given to him, exploiting it just like Sasuke exploiting his CS.

I got a feeling he's going to use the Sasuke draws on his own chakra defense.

[niyesuH]

@niyesuh: So Sasuke can use CS, drugs and anything else to become stronger while Naruto can't use his "weapon" the Kyuubi chakra only to become stronger? Thats my friend is using an abilities given to him, exploiting it just like Sasuke exploiting his CS.

CS does not add foreign chakra... and where did u get the drugs from? does he look like a drugs addict to u?

besides none of the things u mentioned can compete with 1000 years of training within a day

[jariroth]

Naruto works hard, Lee works hard, its imbossible to which one works harder unless the manga turns into 24/7 Narutos and Lee life. Too bad Lee is a side character so there will be never enough material to know how much he really spends in training.

After the Kagebunshin training, i dont think Naruto would lose to Lee anymore.

[Nae'blis]

Naruto doesn't work as hard, he just has more natural ability so his accomplishments are more profound. Most of the things Naruto has done don't require hard work, just genius ability (Rasengan, FRS, KB). All the things which actually require effort he isn't that good at (taijutsu).


Naruto reads a scroll for 20 minutes and masters a jonin level jutsu, but the same Naruto couldn't even do henge after failing 3 times. He has protagonist protection, but Lee doesn't.

[raibbhani]

CS does not add foreign chakra... and where did u get the drugs from? does he look like a drugs addict to u?

besides none of the things u mentioned can compete with 1000 years of training within a day

Well, the Konoha mentioned that his growth is very unnatural or something like that and that he possibly use some kind of drugs or something like that.

And you forgot Sharingan. He has all thing to become stronger. Orochimaru possibly will try to make Sasuke strong as he could so that he will have an easier time to accomplish his goal. While Naruto only has that training method. I just don't understand why you complaining on such little matter.

[Aokiji]

Yes, we all know naruto trains harder than Lee. After all he, just like Lee, kicks a log 400 times, does 2000 pushups and when he fails 1 pushup before the end he does 500 ropejumps. :notrust

[niyesuH]

Well, the Konoha mentioned that his growth is very unnatural or something like that and that he possibly use some kind of drugs or something like that.

just because Tsunade said so... doesnt mean it is so... she wasnt even there to see...

And you forgot Sharingan. He has all thing to become stronger. Orochimaru possibly will try to make Sasuke strong as he could so that he will have an easier time to accomplish his goal. While Naruto only has that training method. I just don't understand why you complaining on such little matter.

sharingan is an bloodline... and i am not complaining... i am just saying Naruto doesnt work hard as Lee or any other charachter for that matter... hard work is something u do with your own powers...

i will give u this though.. he used to work hard...

[RAGING BONER]

I don't see Naruto needing the Curry of Life because he almost died while running/training in his sleep...do you?!

[Deniz]

Yes, we all know naruto trains harder than Lee. After all he, just like Lee, kicks a log 400 times, does 2000 pushups and when he fails 1 pushup before the end he does 500 ropejumps. :notrust

Instead; Naruto nukes uninhabited places, cuts waterfalls in half and hits his teacher with energy balls.

[King Scoop]

To me Naurto's KB training actually makes him the hardest working ninja ever. I mean he does 20 years of training in just a few days. The the next week he can just move on to other things. In a month thats 80 years of training thats longer than Lee has to life.

[Dreadfather Sithis]

CS does not add foreign chakra... and where did u get the drugs from? does he look like a drugs addict to u?

besides none of the things u mentioned can compete with 1000 years of training within a day

Wtf, Do you even watch Naruto at all? He used drugs to force up his Cursed Seal level!

And yeah, Sasuke kind of looks like a drug addict.

[Nae'blis]

Well, the Konoha mentioned that his growth is very unnatural or something like that and that he possibly use some kind of drugs or something like that.
Yeah, what does Tsunade know of what was going on inside Orochimaru's HQ? What do they expect from someone who trained every damn minute of every day for 2.5 years? Sasuke is a genius, he learns everything quickly, he reached Lee's normal speed in 2 weeks (Lee had been training for at least 2 years to get this level of speed). I don't see why this is hard to believe, but shinobi like Itachi/Kakashi/Orochimaru/Yondaime are from Konoha and showed equal if not more hax powers before Sasuke's age.

And you forgot Sharingan. He has all thing to become stronger. Orochimaru possibly will try to make Sasuke strong as he could so that he will have an easier time to accomplish his goal.
Yes, sharingan can teach jutsu in a matter of seconds if the user meets the necesary requirements. The main reason Oro taught Sasuke jutsu was to increase the success of the body transfer (and other reasons I'm sure). The stronger Sasuke was, the more likely he would be able to use that body forever.

[piccun²]

Naruto surely works hard, but Lee is always in training, I bet he even uses super-heavy chopsticks when eating or heavy blankets for sleep.
that's the difference, Naruto has his training sessions, while Lee trains 24/24

[Rodze]

No. Lee works hard every day, while Naruto "does" it only when Kishimoto makes Naruto learn a s-rank jutsu in a couple of weeks.

[Tendou Souji]

Lee works hard 24/7, no real breaks. Naruto doesn't work hard 24/7.

Lee works harder.

[Crimson2Phoenix7]

yes, probably even more so.

[DeepThought]

One night of tree climbing and Naruto was exhausted well into the next day.
Sure, that was early, and now Naruto pulled another *gasp* one nighter to cut teh waterfall.

Lee has been pulling one nighter's since before Gai became his mentor.

[Kuroro]

Lee works hard and Naruto works hard. They both have extreme worth ethics; I don't see how you could compare the two really, though Naruto's case happens to be more difficult than Lee's.

[Hamaru]

Naruto has Kyuubi to fall back on. All Lee has is his hard work and taijutsu (Gates came from hard work).

[9Tail-Hokage]

Some people are amazing. So Naruto has a monster that's as troublesome and hurtful as it is helpful to fall back on, yet all cons of having Kyuubi are null and void. Naruto not only has to struggle with the Kyuubi, he has to be at least decent in all three areas of fighting, while Lee only gets to focus on one. Lee's handicap is that he cannot use ninjutsu or genjutsu. But I guess Kyuubi threatening to take Naruto over as Naruto grows in strength isn't crippling at all. Yeah. Kyuubi's all great, and it presents Naruto with no problems at all.
yes thnx to the Kyuubi... which u said was nothing but trouble to Naruto just...
Not exactly. It's thanks to the training which borrowed Kyuubi's powers. But if you're using this to discredit Naruto, then it isn't working. Most people have moved on from this. Probably because they realized that that argument wasn't working because, you know, on account that it sucked.
compare his amount of training with that of Sasuke...
What's your point?
my point is still valid
Um no, it's not. It's a fanboy's wishful thinking. Just because you wish for it hard, it doesn't make it true. Or valid.

No. Lee works hard every day, while Naruto "does" it only when Kishimoto makes Naruto learn a s-rank jutsu in a couple of weeks.
I see. And you know that because you've been watching Naruto's off-panel scenes and saw him sitting on his ass while we were off reading the actual manga.

[Tendou Souji]

I see. And you know that because you've been watching Naruto's off-panel scenes and saw him sitting on his ass while we were off reading the actual manga.
Actually it's in the manga. When Naruto is injured, he lays around and does nothing. When Rock Lee is injured, he trains. When Naruto goes out to eat at Ichiraku, guess where Lee is. Training. Rock Lee is the most hard-working person in the manga. Naruto isn't. That's that.

[Loogidude]

Lee just owns. Naruto is not made of blood and sweat like lee is.

IMO Sasuke works harder than Naruto.

[King Scoop]

With 200 KB Naruto trains more in an hour than Lee does in a week training 24/7. It more about the amount of effort put into the training than the actual time/days that pass.

[Tendou Souji]

With 200 KB Naruto trains more in an hour than Lee does in a week training 24/7. It more about the amount of effort put into the training than the actual time/days that pass.
He may train more but does he train harder? No. So your post means nothing.

[SpiRo]

Of course not.. Naruto is not even close. Neither anyone else.

Except that 3 years of Sasuke constant training. I would say Sasuke trained very much in that period..

But Lees whole life is training.

[Sharinganmaster29]

they both work as much and hard as they can...but i think lee has even more to struggle since he has absolutely NO talent

[King Scoop]

He may train more but does he train harder? No. So your post means nothing.

So now this has turned into another semantics debate.

Naruto just condenses that the amount of actual time it takes him to train, but he does work at least as hard as Lee in his short bursts as Lee does over the next several years of his life.

[SpiRo]

they both work as much and hard as they can...but i think lee has even more to struggle since he has absolutely NO talent

Are you out of your mind ?

Lee is genius too.. problem is that he can not use ninjutsu and genjutsu.

[Brain Guy]

Nope. 10charact0rz

[iander]

They both work incredibly hard, I dont see where the argument really is. Lee works till he bleeds and Naruto works till he passes out and his body is chakra burned. They are both hard workers, you all are just fanboys.

[Zethios]

Everyone has to have a trademark.

Lee's trademark is hard work.
Naruto's trademark are balls.

...

Get it? Spiralling Sphere and a whole lot of guts. Hehe Zeth made a funny.

And, you know what? I refuse to comment on said topic any further. You will not comment on anything more concerning "balls" too.

Ok. Just so this isn't classified as spam:
They both work pretty hard. Lee has been working harder for a lot longer though. He got a whole episode about a flashback that shows how hard he works.

>_<

[Shinkirou]

Naruto doesn't work as hard, he just has more natural ability so his accomplishments are more profound. Most of the things Naruto has done don't require hard work, just genius ability (Rasengan, FRS, KB). All the things which actually require effort he isn't that good at (taijutsu).


Naruto reads a scroll for 20 minutes and masters a jonin level jutsu, but the same Naruto couldn't even do henge after failing 3 times. He has protagonist protection, but Lee doesn't.

Thats always seemed so damn stupid to me. I mean how could he go from being shitty at it with three years of training, to being able to use a jounin level version of it in a few minutes? It just seems stupid, with no explaination as to how that works out.

[Ponko]

I think Lee works harder than Naruto but he just can't get as much out of it. Don't get me wrong, next to Lee I think Naruto easily works the hardest out of everyone, but Lee turns everything into a new way to train. Just walking up and down stairs to him he sees as a new opportunity to make him stronger. Training is a lifestyle to Lee, and he would have to train hard constantly just to remain at the state he is at now. His handicap makes it so he has to sacrifice his whole life just to be a 'good' ninja in one area, and he unfortunately is not even the strongest in taijutsu.

[shintebukuro]

Lee has a lot more on his shoulders than Naruto. He trains hard knowing full well he has a giant disadvantage against every single ninja out there. And what's amazing is that he doesn't seek just to surpass normal people, as that would be a feat in itself, but he seeks to surpass geniuses like Neji...

A guy who cannot mold chakra to use ninjutsu, he can only punch and kick, is looking to surpass a genius among a clan of geniuses who have a strong bloodline jutsu.

It's like a guy in a wheelchair trying to become better at basketball than Michael Jordan, or a guy with one arm trying to become better than Tiger Woods at golf. It's inspiring.

That is the reason Gai called Lee the genius of hardwork. Naruto is hard-working and amazing in his own right, but he cannot be compared to Lee.

[taboo]

Naruto has the potential to work hard, and he does it at occational training intervals, but I think Lee overall trains harder. Lee would turn even the simplest things like eating and wearing clothes into training.


So the answer is no.

[Tendou Souji]

So now this has turned into another semantics debate.

Naruto just condenses that the amount of actual time it takes him to train, but he does work at least as hard as Lee in his short bursts as Lee does over the next several years of his life.
How often does Naruto do this. Not often. He doesn't use this type of training often, while Lee trains till he bleeds every single day.

[Ssa_dab]

Naruto doesn't work as hard, he just has more natural ability so his accomplishments are more profound. Most of the things Naruto has done don't require hard work, just genius ability (Rasengan, FRS, KB). All the things which actually require effort he isn't that good at (taijutsu).


Naruto reads a scroll for 20 minutes and masters a jonin level jutsu, but the same Naruto couldn't even do henge after failing 3 times. He has protagonist protection, but Lee doesn't.

Dude where do you get this stuff from, Naruto has always been able to henge, its the base for his "sexy no jutsu." The skill that he always had problems with was "Bunshin no jutsu," and this is not because he is a poor worker, as Kakashi said himself the reason that Naruto always failed while doing the Bunshin technique, is because Naruto over worked it, putting too much chakra into the jutsu. Kage bunshin is a skill that was perfectly fit for someone like Naruto, and that's why he adapted to it so easily, the execive chakra he put into regular bunshins could've been exactly what he needed to make effective Kage bunshins, Naruto has poor Chakra control because He has lots of it (not including Kyuubi) and he always tries to put everything into it, which is why he is more fit for jutsus that stand out a lot or require a lot of Chakra...

[taboo]

^ I thought it was because of that seal on his stomach that messed up his chakra control?

[Ssa_dab]

^ I thought it was because of that seal on his stomach that messed up his chakra control?

Naruto has never been too good with his Chakra control, Oro's 5 elemental seal only messed up Naruto's Control even more...

[Loogidude]

Considering Naruto is the man of the year currently and is everyone's favorite kyubbi container OCD freakazoid. I'd say Naruto's a spoiled brat, he has two fangirls, more chakra, more reconition from high class sannins, and is the top Ninja of his prime at the leaf village. I don't even consider him an underdog anymore, he's gotten to the point where he replaces Sasuke as the pimp pf kahona.

Lee however is still mere genin level compared to everyone else, he's the real underdog.

[Tendou Souji]

Naruto has never been too good with his Chakra control, Oro's 5 elemental seal only messed up Naruto's Control even more...
Where the hell are you getting this?

It didn't do anything to his chakra control. Oro's seal only shut off Naruto's access to the Kyuubi's Chakra.

[Gunners]

Yes he does train as hard or harder than Rock Lee.

[Kuroro]

Where the hell are you getting this?

It didn't do anything to his chakra control. Oro's seal only shut off Naruto's access to the Kyuubi's Chakra.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume111.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=26849

[Tempest]

yes thnx to the Kyuubi... which u said was nothing but trouble to Naruto just...



compare his amount of training with that of Sasuke...



my point is still valid

Actually give Naruto a month of TKB training and he will become god.

Within a couple of days he produced a 50% jutsu that outmatches most jutsu out there, if not all(disregarding Tsukiyomi, Death God, etc.)

So your point is no longer valid.

:thumbs

[Rodze]

...

I see. And you know that because you've been watching Naruto's off-panel scenes and saw him sitting on his ass while we were off reading the actual manga.

As already said, it is in the manga. There's about 1 or 2 complete chapters of Naruto eating ramen and sleeping, while there's probably no panel of Lee doing any of it. And doesn't come with "Naruto is the protagonist, what do you want?".

I want some proof that Naruto trains at least 1/100 of what any other ninja does. I won't even go in the "learn other jutsu discussion". I mean, after 3 years of breathing KB he still didn't know the jutsu at all.

I repeat, Naruto's way of ninja is to sit and wait for Kishimoto to make him learn something in a couple weeks of hardwork. Putting him nowhere near Lee.

[Yakushi Kabuto]

They both work hard, I can't say if one works more than the other because they train in different things. Lee's training looks more intense because it is working the body while Naruto has to focus on his chakra which is much more of an internal matter.

[9Tail-Hokage]

As already said, it is in the manga. There's about 1 or 2 complete chapters of Naruto eating ramen and sleeping, while there's probably no panel of Lee doing any of it. And doesn't come with "Naruto is the protagonist, what do you want?".

I want some proof that Naruto trains at least 1/100 of what any other ninja does. I won't even go in the "learn other jutsu discussion". I mean, after 3 years of breathing KB he still didn't know the jutsu at all.
I have to go Vash on you: Thank you. Thank you for existing. Without you, normal people would not look like total geniuses. I mean, seriously, if you didn't exist, the world be a lot dumber for you not being around to make them all look smart. I mean, honestly, who else could watch Naruto, and compare him to a ninja turtle while the cameras are off? Like he sits around eating pizza all day. Why don't you just go watch One Piece and compare Luffy to an apple.

To your original post. No, my good brilliant poster, you did not. You all but told me that you know everything that Naruto does off-panel, that you know he does not, in fact, do anything but sit around and get fatter. All while Lee trains twenty hours a day, seven days a week. You said they did this off-panel, that you know they do this. But how? You don't, genius. And now you're backtracking somewhat, and citing panels where Naruto's eating Ramen to prove your brilliant "he never does anything off-panel." That garbage doesn't fly here; you're making everything up and you know it.
I repeat, Naruto's way of ninja is to sit and wait for Kishimoto to make him learn something in a couple weeks of hardwork. Putting him nowhere near Lee.
Here's where and why I question your intelligence most. The fact that you're using the manga-ka to say that all he does is make Naruto do winding down-type often to further to your point. What kind of garbage is that? I could just as easily say that when Lee wasn't out busting his ass, he was out getting defeated by the likes of Neji and the Sound 4, and being crippled by Gaara.

[AbnormallyNormal]

no, naruto gets a lot more help from others than lee does or did. also naruto has built-in power from kyuubi, plus mizuki gave him the sealing scroll so he learned a jonin level jutsu before even became a genin. lee definitely is the hardest working ninja.

[Rodze]

...

To your original post. No, my good brilliant poster, you did not. You all but told me that you know everything that Naruto does off-panel, that you know he does not, in fact, do anything but sit around and get fatter. All while Lee trains twenty hours a day, seven days a week. You said they did this off-panel, that you know they do this. But how? You don't, genius. And now you're backtracking somewhat, and citing panels where Naruto's eating Ramen to prove your brilliant "he never does anything off-panel." That garbage doesn't fly here; you're making everything up and you know it.

Here's where and why I question your intelligence most. The fact that you're using the manga-ka to say that all he does is make Naruto do winding down-type often to further to your point. What kind of garbage is that? I could just as easily say that when Lee wasn't out busting his ass, he was out getting defeated by the likes of Neji and the Sound 4, and being crippled by Gaara.


Bringing the writer is one thing i tried to do so you all can realize that it is a fictional history and all that happens is the design of the writer. We can't assume Naruto is training in his off-panel time or studying philosophy unless the writer says so. As far as i recall, Kishimoto never hinted that Naruto trains in a constant basis (in fact, he does the opposite of it). All his shown training are in the way i said. Differently from what he did to Lee (and many other ninja, for that matter). So, by the existing facts (which means "by what Kishimoto shows") i can only conclude that Naruto only trains like i said.

Saying that Naruto does anything besides what is shown is the same as saying that Yondaime is weaker than Itachi when they where never shown fighting each other. It just about 99% of the thread subjects here, pure assumption and personal tastes.

Obviously Kishimoto can change that at any time and show in the future that Naruto really hard worked constantly in the 2.5 years or all the time from the start, but so far he hasn't.

[King Scoop]

How often does Naruto do this. Not often. He doesn't use this type of training often, while Lee trains till he bleeds every single day.

The point is that Naruto doesn't have to train like that everyday if he doesn't want to.

There are 168 hours in a week, thats how many hours Lee would have trained if he went 24/7. Naruto can easily train with 168 clones at a time. Now lets say he decided that he wanted to only train for one day for and only for 8 hours, thats equal to 2 months. Thats how long it would take Lee just to catch up in his training, 2 months. Naruto could take 55 days off and still have worked as hard as Lee. Last time he used the KB training he trained for over 20 years, Lee is only 16.

Honestly if this thread had came up before Naruto's KB training I would have definitely given it to Lee without question. But the fact is that Naruto has surpassed him basically because of this one training technique.

[taboo]

But the fact is that Naruto has surpassed him basically because of this one training technique.I dunno, wouldn't that be.... working easy instead of working hard?

[King Scoop]

I dunno, wouldn't that be.... working easy instead of working hard?

Not really it just means Naruto's training is more condensed. Back to what I said earlier if Naruto trains for an hour with 168 clones then he basically works 7 times harder in that one day than Lee does. So divide that 7 by 7 days and you get 1. In other words they equal each other. Naruto can take the rest of the week off and still equal the same amount of hard work as Lee does.

[Nae'blis]

Dude where do you get this stuff from, Naruto has always been able to henge, its the base for his "sexy no jutsu." The skill that he always had problems with was "Bunshin no jutsu," and this is not because he is a poor worker, as Kakashi said himself the reason that Naruto always failed while doing the Bunshin technique, is because Naruto over worked it, putting too much chakra into the jutsu.

Thats weird. I could have sworn that whenever Iruka asked Naruto to henge into Sandaime, he couldn't. Instead of henging into Sandaime he used his sexy jutsu [giving Iruka a nosebleed]. The truth of the matter is that Naruto was bad at both these jutsu, so what he said to Neji wasn't the complete truth. Do you honestly think that graduation from the ninja academy depends on only one jutsu? No, dude, it doesn't. I don't remember Kakashi saying Naruto "overworked" bunshin no jutsu, all he said was the Naruto was "Mr. Dead Last", he never referenced Naruto's academy experience unless he was insulting Naruto.

Hey, I could be wrong, but the chance is so low that I wouldn't bet on it.

[IBOSTYLE11]

H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS!
Naruto works hard, I won't deny that. But he works hard in intervals. Rock Lee is just insane with his hard work. Remember when he was fighting Gaara and they showed the flashback of him training? The guy was training when Gai went to bed, and was STILL training with Gai woke up. THAT is why he's a Genius of hard work.

[taboo]

Not really it just means Naruto's training is more condensed. Back to what I said earlier if Naruto trains for an hour with 168 clones then he basically works 7 times harder in that one day than Lee does. So divide that 7 by 7 days and you get 1. In other words they equal each other. Naruto can take the rest of the week off and still equal the same amount of hard work as Lee does.

That's a good point, but ultimately I have to disagree. :p Putting my obvious bias aside, there's just something about the way Lee trains compared to the way Naruto trains. Like a passion or something, like, Lee trains as if his life depended on it, all the time in everything he does. Naruto can do the 1 day= year training, and that's it, he's done for a while, off to relax, take a nap and eat ramen.

That's just how I feel personally, on the observations I made though. :) To me... Naruto can train a week in a single hour but I don't think it would have the same meaning as a single hour of sweat and blood from Lee. And that's where I think I'm drawing my definition of 'hard work' from.

[Rayeli]

Since the Ninja Academy years, Lee has literally been working sweat and tears despite being alienated by his peers and having no friends. In the meantime, Naruto released his social frustration through pranks and pissing people off.

Lee's has a sensei who's basis in training is through hard work and has Lee wear 2 ton weights on each of his ankles 24/7 day and night while working his ass off. Naruto has a teacher who seems to put as much focus to Icha Icha Paradise as to training his students (mostly Sasuke).

Lee's freakin' poised to fight unconcious as much as he is awake. He worked himself to exhaustion with a shattered arm, leg, and spinal column. We have yet to see that from Naruto.

Naruto has been endowed with the amazing power of the terrible demon fox of the Tailed Beasts, supplying him with chakra in his time of need, and didn't even realized it until Mizuki told him. Lee had only his unimpressive, ordinary, jutsuless of a body, which through unimaginable hard work, toned to the point even Sabaku no Gaara-holder of the One Tail and feared of all Suna-was at the edge of his sit and could barely raised his battered limb to end the finishing blow.

Lee has scars and bruises on his hands and arms and who knows else where from pushing himself to the limits. Naruto has yet to taint his man-model of a body.

Kakashi and Gai called Lee the Genius of Hard Work. I don't recall Naruto ever being called that.

See, Naruto has all these power ups, the advantage of using Ninjutsu and Genjutsu over Lee, a Sannin as a teacher, a demon fox, the role of the main character and what the hell did Lee have? Just his useless excuse of a talentless-which could have done less than the Konohamaru in the first volume- shinobi body and the leadership of his spandex-clad sensei.

Yes, I do agree that Naruto is one of the hardest working people in the manga, probably even second to Lee, but you have to admit Lee has had it pretty more damn rough and frustrating, where everyone was given an axe whereas Lee had a butter knife to start with. Put Naruto in his shoes and he wouldn't have lasted the the first five volumes. Put anyone else in his shoes, and they would have been like "fuck this" and just given up.

[punkforjesus]

Lee couldn't do taijutsu to begin with, yet, in a mere (6-ish?) years, he developed the skill to keep up(filler, during the mini-arc revolving around revenge on Gai), and even surprass(Curry of Life mini-arc) a renown Jounin.

[JikkuPikku]

Kage Bunshin training = working smart, not hard?

[Saya]

Lee works harder than Naruto does.

[cloudsymph]

meh it don't matter. everyone works hard

[Cassius the Greatest]

Lee works out waay harder man, the boy does laps around konoha on a two hand stand,
naruto's will is stronger though

[recoil]

In my opinion, they are equal. Quality and quantity become relative at some point, and while Lee may work more often, the 'quality' of work Naruto does is equal. Obviously sustaining hundreds of KB Narutos isn't easy (thus accomplishing a large amount of training in little time,) but what a lot of you fail to realize is that each individual KB puts forth maximum effort. Even if Lee was capable of KB I doubt he would be able to sustain as many of them, let alone train with all of them, like Naruto does. After all, Naruto is known for his stamina.

In a sense, Naruto can bend time (ie DBZ time chamber). He simply has more time on his hands because of his training technique. I might not make sense, I'm somewhat of a narutard, but I hope some of you can understand the point I'm trying to make.

[Wertise]

They do work pretty hard but lee works harder
i mean you don't see naruto punching a tree 2000 times?
or jumping rope 3000 times?
or doing push ups 5000 times?
or running around konoha upside down 500 times?
didn't think so
naruto works pretty had but lee works DAM hard

[recoil]

They do work pretty hard but lee works harder
i mean you don't see naruto punching a tree 2000 times?
or jumping rope 3000 times?
or doing push ups 5000 times?
or running around konoha upside down 500 times?
didn't think so
naruto works pretty had but lee works DAM hard

The same can be said for Lee. Obviously Lee can't do any Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, but if he could, do you really think he would devote all his time to physical training? I'm pretty sure he would be incorporating studying scrolls, seals, and chakra control too. Unfortunately for Lee, taijutsu is his only 'talent.'

Kinda like fashion models. All some of them know how to do is look pretty, but I'm sure they work out every day, know all the latest fashions, know all the new make-up techniques, etc.

[leetlegit]

Lee focuses on one type of training and works hard. Naruto has a wider area of training. But they both have something to prove and both work harder in other areas. But honestly because I am biased towards Lee (being in the Rock Lee Fanclub and all) I will say Lee works a bit harder

[recoil]

This argument is invalid to tell you all honestly. A large reason why people say that Lee trains harder is because Taijutsu is more relatable. I mean honestly, do any of you really know the intricacies of learning and mastering Ninjutsu or Genjutsu? Nope. Do any of you know how to mold chakra or control it? Nope. But I'm sure we can all relate to doing thousands of laps/pushups etc. so in some minds Lee does in fact work harder..

[niyru of the ice village]

lee works harder because he has bruises on his hand and he can open up the 5th gate in naruto just imagine what he can do in shippuuden

[nkon]

yeah naruto works more than lee if u mean jutsu training but in physical stamina lee works > naruto work

[Levithian]

...works JUST as hard as Lee does??

Yes I would...

[Jetstorm]

Naruto is hardworking but Lee trains more.

[Maiokhan]

Where the hell are you getting this?

It didn't do anything to his chakra control. Oro's seal only shut off Naruto's access to the Kyuubi's Chakra.

It did mess up his chakra control. He couldn't complete the water walking training until Jiraiya reverses Orochimaru's seal.

[Kaiwai]

Sort of.

[Reina_Miyamoto]

Yes I would...

i agree with you.

[Ero_Sennin]

Lee is more of a freak than Naruto (running in his sleep (I know it is filler, but is it really beyond the scope of the character, lol, c'mon)), so I guess that is why Lee is known to be a "genius at hard work".

[Creator]

No. Lee works the hardest.

[Maiokhan]

I think the amount of episodes/chapters which show lee training seem to give the impresion that he trains harder, especially since he always trains physically. However I would agree with those who have said that Naruto probably trains just as hard.

Lee was called a genius of hard work because his skill and power come from hard work alone. And while alot of Naruto's skill and power comes from hard work as well, he also draws strength from his large amount of chakra (even if we disregard the demon fox chakra) and his detemination. Therefore Naruto does not rely on his hard work as much as Lee does. Lee's main theme is hard work, while Naruto's is determination. That's not to say lee isn't extremly determined (he wouldn't work so hard if he wasn't) or that Naruto does not work hard (he would never have learned anything without it). It is simply that thier main strengths are different.

I can understand people thinking Lee works harder. That's kool even tho I generally hold a different opinion. But there seem to be some who are implying (and I may well be wrong about this) that Naruto doesn't work hard at all. WTF?! Have you guys been watching the same anime I have? Every time we have seen Naruto train, he works till he's completely exausted or he collapses while training. He trains to the point where he can't even hold chopsticks to eat because he used so much chakra.

Naruto is like Lee in that he has no natural talent. He would never have been as strong as he is now is he didn't train extremly hard. I idea of Naruto being lazy is complete rubbish. leave the Naruto bashing to the anti-naruto fc thread.

[GaaraOTD3]

lee trains is determined in geting strong while naruto is determined in becoming hokage.
so i think Lee works harder than naruto in terms of physical work.

[Katon]

I think Naruto will look hot in the green spandex :nuts
J/K

The Green Suit looks sooo cool!

[Kamishiro Yuki]

mmm... Naruto works hard, but I didn't saw him try as much as Lee... so I'd say Lee is the winner here

[Ramona Flowers]

He works hard, not quite as hard as Lee, but alot more than the others.

[blaze of fire]

i don't know i reckon lee work's hardersmile-big

[Shodai]

Ignorance is always bliss.

Yes, how is struggling to control a very powerful chakra that's completely foreign to your own chakra, as well as your body, hard work? How is struggling to keep a monster from emerging and taking in your own body hard at all? It's easy doing that! Not hard at all! It's easy as counting to ten, even!

Right. Anyway, one can make a case that Naruto works as hard at ninjutsu (and occasionally genjutsu) than Lee does at taijutsu. Lee looks like the hardest worker ever because he can only focus solely on the physical taijutsu. Since it's physical body work, people may some simply assume that training just as arduously and strenuously at ninjutsu isn't possible—which Naruto definitely does—which is erroneous of course. jameshawking touched upon something. Though primarily a ninjutsu user, Naruto has to be at least effective enough in taijutsu and genjutsu as well. Something that someone like Lee has nothing to worry about.


/thread :nod

[Dementia]

He doesn't work as hard as Lee, but he pushes himself to the limits more.:sag

[cloudsymph]

Pretty much yes. But after the intoduction of "kage bunshin accelerated training", he will never need to train as much as Lee to make the same amount of progress.

yea but it just means speeding up his training each individual buushin is his chakara and therefore each take on a load of his work amounting to full amount of work in a sense of course. he still must produce that amount of chakara to produce the buushins and that means stamina. which well has to take a toll on him.

[~M~]

Yeah, I guess.

[couragebridge]

naruto is very harworking, almost as much as lee but i still believe that lee is a little more hardworkig than naruto. just a littl more. the trainning in the hospital and in the battle with gaara, when lee still standed up altough he has already fainted were all very touching. lee even bet with his life when he wanted to realise his dream. naruto is hardworking but at least he has the kyuubi to help him, if not he won't be able to summon the big frog (forgot his name). moreover he had a lot of chance to have one of the sannin as teacher plus sometimes he was hardworking because he was pushed by some events, for example he trainned suddenly so hard with the rasengan not only because he wants to perform but also because tsunade made a bet of one week with him.
so that's why i consider lee as a little more hardworking that naruto

[Daddy43205]

i would say so

[Raiden]

Rock Lee works way harder than Naruto. We don't see Naruto doing two hundred push ups or running around Konoha dozens of times. No offense to Naruto...he's still hard working, regardless.

[Jotacon]

I can't beleive people still say Naruto works less hard, they are even.
They both have different strengths Naruto = Ninjutsu while Lee= Taijutsu. It's that simple, we know that in the academy and after his graduation Naruto trained hella hard, he had to endure the Kyuubi, he had his Kagebunshin Training. Lee just trains hard too I think it's the physical aspect as well, in that with the excpetion of a very small number of people nobody one this board can use Ninjutsu but we can all run laps and a punch logs.
Naruto has also clearly shown improvement in Taijutsu.

As far as Kagebunshin training goes, I would say NAruto works to his Maximum with every clone, sustaining them, the Rasengen and putting Wind Chakra is clearly HARD. I also do not disagree that Naruto condenced his amount of training with KB training and he could do more work than Lee ever could, BUT the individual level of each clone and Naruto himself is maximum, Lee's is at his maximum as well which would mean they train just as hard.

Naruto can just train better.