Jirobu and Sakon(Sound 4) vs Toph and Katara

[Giovanni Rild]

Battle takes place in a forest, near a lake. Jirobu and Sakon attack Toph and Katara, thinking they are enemy shinobi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR8O2lxEJTU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT_0J-wlLX0

[Suzumebachi]

Avatar gets outspeeded easily.

[Giovanni Rild]

Avatar gets outspeeded easily.

No they don't. These two guys are slow. I won't waste my time to ask you to prove your claim, because you won't.

[Suzumebachi]

Sakon is slow? The guy who owned Sasuke, Mr. Fast as Lee Without Weights?

[Giovanni Rild]

Sakon is slow? The guy who owned Sasuke, Mr. Fast as Lee Without Weights?

You can't use A>B>C Sakon won because he was plain ole stronger than Sasuke and he had to use the Seal in that fight.

[Suzumebachi]

You can't use A>B>C Sakon won because he was plain ole stronger than Sasuke and he had to use the Seal in that fight.

No. He didn't have to use his seal in that fight. Sasuke had to use his seal in that fight. He still got owned.
Avatar loses.

[Giovanni Rild]

No. He didn't have to use his seal in that fight. Sasuke had to use his seal in that fight. He still got owned.
Avatar loses.

We both are wrong. No seals were used. Just reread it.

[Suzumebachi]

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume20.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=34639
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume20.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=34642

[Giovanni Rild]

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume20.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=34639
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume20.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=34642

Ok you win this round, but that says nothing about his speed. I didn't go back far enough.

[Suzumebachi]

Sakon beat him.

Sasuke has the speed of weightless Lee at that point.

[Giovanni Rild]

Sakon beat him.

Sasuke has the speed of weightless Lee at that point.

Sasuke didn't use the Speed in said fight.

[Pimp of Pimps]

Avatar is fucked hard.

And hey Rild. :sag

[Giovanni Rild]

Avatar is fucked hard.

And hey Rild. :sag

Who the hell are you?

[The Internet]

Jirobou is slow as fuck, but Sakon is much faster. But Toph's reaction speed can counter that. Katara as well, but not as well as Toph. I'd say Avatar wins in a very close fight.

[Giovanni Rild]

Jirobou is slow as fuck, but Sakon is much faster. But Toph's reaction speed can counter that. Katara as well, but not as well as Toph. I'd say Avatar wins in a very close fight.

Thank you. I was aiming for a close battle.

[Suzumebachi]

I say....Sakon jumps and throws a kunai at Toph while Jiroubou attacks with ground smashing.Toph is dead and Katara is a sitting duck.

[Pimp of Pimps]

Who the hell are you?

Heh you don't remember. :sag

[Giovanni Rild]

I say....Sakon jumps and throws a kunai at Toph while Jiroubou attacks with ground smashing.Toph is dead and Katara is a sitting duck.

Toph can detect airborne objects. Watch the vid in my sig.

Heh you don't remember. :sag

Do I hate you?

[The Internet]

I say....Sakon jumps and throws a kunai at Toph while Jiroubou attacks with ground smashing.Toph is dead and Katara is a sitting duck.

Toph has dodged high speed aerial attacks before. Ground smashing is just asking to get owned, as soon as Jiroubou touches the ground, he gets raped by lots of pointy stones and rock out of the ground.



Seriously, people need to not underestimate Avatar. It's generally not any better than Naruto, but the fights are fucking amazing and really, the main reason I watch the show.

[Pimp of Pimps]

Do I hate you?



You tell me.

[Suzumebachi]

Toph has dodged high speed aerial attacks before.

When? Rild once tried to say Toph can dodge aerial attacks because she dodged an idiot swinging at her on a rope while screaming.

Ground smashing is just asking to get owned, as soon as Jiroubou touches the ground, he gets raped by lots of pointy stones and rock out of the ground.

Not really. As soon as Jiroubou smacks the ground, everything gets rumbly, Avatar team is like "wtf, counterattack" and Toph doesn't even notice the kunai in the head.

[Giovanni Rild]

When? Rild once tried to say Toph can dodge aerial attacks because she dodged an idiot swinging at her on a rope while screaming.


Not really. As soon as Jiroubou smacks the ground, everything gets rumbly, Avatar team is like "wtf, counterattack" and Toph doesn't even notice the kunai in the head.

Watch the vid before you embarrass yourself any further.

[Pimp of Pimps]

I told you to tell me

[The Internet]

When? Rild once tried to say Toph can dodge aerial attacks because she dodged an idiot swinging at her on a rope while screaming.
Her hearing is very acute. And besides that, Katara can hit the kunai out of the air.


Not really. As soon as Jiroubou smacks the ground, everything gets rumbly, Avatar team is like "wtf, counterattack" and Toph doesn't even notice the kunai in the head.
...and Katara would smack it before it hit her.

[Giovanni Rild]

I told you to tell me

I dunno. Did you post in my first thread? End of manga Ranma and Ryoga vs Start of DBZ Goku, Piccolo and Raditz?

[Pimp of Pimps]

I dunno. Did you post in my first thread? End of manga Ranma and Ryoga vs Start of DBZ Goku, Piccolo and Raditz?

Remember when you were an Ob newb?

I was there.

[Suzumebachi]

Her hearing is very acute. And besides that, Katara can hit the kunai out of the air.


...and Katara would smack it before it hit her.

What makes you so sure that Katara will even notice?

They aren't ninja. Once Jiroubou starts up, they're bound to forget about Sakon when he moves away.

[The Internet]

What makes you so sure that Katara will even notice?

They aren't ninja. Once Jiroubou starts up, they're bound to forget about Sakon when he moves away.

Katara isn't some stupid bitch, she's one of the best waterbenders in the avatar world and is very smart in battle. She wouldn't be distracted by jiro when there's a crazy two headed motherfucker jumping around trying to tear her in half.

[Giovanni Rild]

What makes you so sure that Katara will even notice?

They aren't ninja. Once Jiroubou starts up, they're bound to forget about Sakon when he moves away.

Jiroubu and Sakon aren't ninja either.

[Pimp of Pimps]

Jiroubu and Sakon aren't ninja either.

They are pirates.

[Suzumebachi]

Jiroubu and Sakon aren't ninja either.

You retard.

Katara isn't some stupid bitch, she's one of the best waterbenders in the avatar world and is very smart in battle. She wouldn't be distracted by jiro when there's a crazy two headed motherfucker jumping around trying to tear her in half.

She would when Jiroubou is shaking the ground and flipping earth at her.

[Giovanni Rild]

You retard.



She would when Jiroubou is shaking the ground and flipping earth at her.

You still didn't watch the video yet eh?

[Suzumebachi]

You still didn't watch the video yet eh?

I did.

And I can counterback and say "You still didn't read Naruto yet eh?" since you didn't even remember that Sasuke used his seal against Sakon and the fact that you've been pretending to read manga since the day you joined this forum.

[Giovanni Rild]

I did.

And I can counterback and say "You still didn't read Naruto yet eh?" since you didn't even remember that Sasuke used his seal against Sakon and the fact that you've been pretending to read manga since the day you joined this forum.

Fallacy: Poisoning the Well. And forgeting something isn't a crime.





Description of Poisoning the Well

This sort of "reasoning" involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. This "argument" has the following form:

1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.

This sort of "reasoning" is obviously fallacious. The person making such an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem in which the attack is made prior to the person even making the claim or claims. The following example clearly shows that this sort of "reasoning" is quite poor.

[Suzumebachi]

Fallacy: Poisoning the Well. And forgeting something isn't a crime.





Oh. Okay then.
You still didn't watch the video yet eh?

Fallacy: Poisoning the well.

[Giovanni Rild]

Oh. Okay then.


Fallacy: Poisoning the well.

I'm asking you if you watched the video. Instead you are giving me and other's the run around. I didn't say anything against you.

[Suzumebachi]

I'm asking you if you watched the video. Instead you are giving me and other's the run around. I didn't say anything against you.

You asked in a fallacious manner thats obvious to anyone but an idiot.

Even though you haven't said a damn thing that would even hint towards Avatar's victory, like every other thread you've ever been in, I conceed.

Avatar wins simply because debating with you is a waste of everyone's time except your own, because being a fool on the internet is obviously whats keeping you alive.

[Giovanni Rild]

You asked in a fallacious manner thats obvious to anyone but an idiot.

Even though you haven't said a damn thing that would even hint towards Avatar's victory, like every other thread you've ever been in, I concede.

Avatar wins simply because debating with you is a waste of everyone's time except your own, because being a fool on the internet is obviously whats keeping you alive.

You admit defeat. Close it up CBG. And the videos spoke for me.

[Suzumebachi]

Rild: 1

Suzumebachi: 500+

Without presenting a single argument, Rild has won. Look out jplaya can(n)on, there's a new sheriff in town.

[ezxx]

Jiroubu didn't display much speed but he does have freakish strength. If Toph attacks him with enough attacks, she should be able to knock him out. In her first apperance she sent those other earth benders flying out of the ring and she's gotten much better with her bending since then. She should take him out after a while.

Sakon is pretty fast. He did manage to keep up with Sasuke and eventually manhandle him. If Katara can freeze him, this fight goes to them, assuming it can't be broken out of by strength. There's also Toph whose shown an ability to take on multiple opponents at once.

Avatar team takes this after a decent to hard fight

[The Internet]

She would when Jiroubou is shaking the ground and flipping earth at her.
Which is why Toph is there to counter act that.

Jiroubou's doton jutsu <<<<<<<< Toph's earthbending

[Limit_Tester]

Avatar characters get dominated.

[The Internet]

Avatar characters get dominated.

I'd hate to sound like Rild, but can you explain why?

[Giovanni Rild]

I'd hate to sound like Rild, but can you explain why?

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/RaikouTheLightning/DarkSide.jpg

[The Internet]

no .

[Suzumebachi]

LOL neg reps from Rild.

[Kage no Yume]

This might actually be a close fight...if you ban CS2.

CS2 Jiroubo's strength would make Katara's ice attacks useless, and would smash through anything Toph can put up.

Sakon/Ukon should be able to take out at least one of them, considering their speed, surprise factor, and instant kill if they can simply touch the opponent to merge with them.

If they're limited to base mode, then the Avatar team should be able to take this 7/10

If limited to CS1, then the two Sound nin take it 6/10.

If not limited at all, Sound nin 9/10.

[Giovanni Rild]

This might actually be a close fight...if you ban CS2.

CS2 Jiroubo's strength would make Katara's ice attacks useless, and would smash through anything Toph can put up.

Sakon/Ukon should be able to take out at least one of them, considering their speed, surprise factor, and instant kill if they can simply touch the opponent to merge with them.

If they're limited to base mode, then the Avatar team should be able to take this 7/10

If limited to CS1, then the two Sound nin take it 6/10.

If not limited at all, Sound nin 9/10.


Toph would hear Sakon and Ukon's heartbeats

surprise factor gone.

CS2 can't be used for long and neither are fast enough to blitz.

And Katara can behead Jiroubu, no matter his strength.

Both sound nin would have a hard time getting near Katara and Toph.

[Kage no Yume]

Toph would hear Sakon and Ukon's heartbeats

surprise factor gone.

Lessened, but still there. Toph would still only sense one body, and would probably wonder why a single person has two hearts.

CS2 can't be used for long and neither are fast enough to blitz.

As mentioned, Ukon/Sakon pwned Sasuke, who had speed equal to Lee's. If that's not enough, do you think Toph would be able to keep up with Kiba in his beast mode? Ukon and Sakon could without the CS.

And Katara can behead Jiroubu, no matter his strength.

Both sound nin would have a hard time getting near Katara and Toph.


Since when was there bloodlust on the Avatar team's side?

And even though Jiroubo was slow by Naruto standards, he's still shown the ability to kawarimi out of an attack, as well as move fast enough to disappear from view:

http://devilbox.dead.org/n/171-180/177/Naruto%20c177%20p15.png

http://devilbox.dead.org/n/171-180/177/Naruto%20c177%20p18.png

http://devilbox.dead.org/n/171-180/177/Naruto%20c177%20p19.png

[Giovanni Rild]

Lessened, but still there. Toph would still only sense one body, and would probably wonder why a single person has two hearts.



As mentioned, Ukon/Sakon pwned Sasuke, who had speed equal to Lee's. If that's not enough, do you think Toph would be able to keep up with Kiba in his beast mode? Ukon and Sakon could without the CS.



Since when was there bloodlust on the Avatar team's side?

And even though Jiroubo was slow by Naruto standards, he's still shown the ability to kawarimi out of an attack, as well as move fast enough to disappear from view:

http://devilbox.dead.org/n/171-180/177/Naruto%20c177%20p15.png

http://devilbox.dead.org/n/171-180/177/Naruto%20c177%20p18.png

http://devilbox.dead.org/n/171-180/177/Naruto%20c177%20p19.png

Ok. I forgot about that too. Ok, you proved your point. But the avatar side still have reaction time on their side.

[Dellishell]

Toph wins by her sheer coolness alone. And Katara, well she can just be a mother and sooth the badass earth bender.

Avatar girls win, because Earth Bending > Ninjustu.

[G-Man]

CS2 Jiroubu could smash anything Toph can throw at him.

Anyone who can keep up with Sasuke post-Chidori training should rape an Avatar character in terms of speed (and this is coming from someone who loves Avatar and especially Toph). They have good reflexes, especially Toph who is indeed awesome, but "good" reflexes aren't going to cut it against that kind of speed difference. At the very least Sakon/Ukon should be able to kill Katara (her ice isn't that strong so Jiroubu and Sakon/Ukon can easily smash through it and her reflexes don't mathc their speed) in short order leaving Toph to be ganged up on.

Toph is good at multiple foes, but multiple foes who can attack from the air with gravity-deying acrobatics and leaps? Who can swap places with pieces of wood (confusing the hell out of her in the process) and who can split in two at the moment they are struck? No, like the fight with those weird vulture bees showed, she has trouble with aerial attacks, and the friggin' vulture bees were noisy as hell. Plus, the ninjas are too versatile.

If it were just Jiroubu, even at CS2, I'd give it to Katara and Toph, but with Sakon/Ukon, they get the numbers and speed advanatge they need to take this without losing a single member of their trio.