Goku Vs. War Hulk

[Badalight]

So who's would win?

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/SonGoku_new.jpg

Vs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/World_War_Hulk_cover_1.jpg

[Orion]

That pic isnt war hulk,but war hulk in a stomping anyways.

[King Bookah]

This belongs in the joke Battledome.

And never make another thread again.^_^

[Badalight]

How is this a stomping?

Please explain.

[Orion]

Hulk in base form has thrown beyond planet shattering hits,he gets stronger as he gets madder,war hulk is hulk plus celestial tech which massively boosts all his powers,he was able to stop juggernaut while in motion which is practically impossible,he has insane regen so he will never die and could litterally kill goku in one hit.

[Phenomenol]

Gaara D. Lucci knows Nothing about comics, don't listen to them, Goku wins.

[Random Nobody]

Here's how,

"Despite his body's high resistance to injury, it is possible to injure the Hulk. He has been injured numerous times by opponents using weapons composed of adamantium. However, the Hulk can regenerate damaged or destroyed tissue with far greater efficiency than an ordinary human. He has proven capable of regenerating all of his skin and most of his muscle tissue, after having them flayed from his body, within a few minutes. It has also been stated that the Hulk's durability (resistance to physical injury), stamina and the efficiency of his healing powers fluctuates with his emotional state, much like his physical strength."

Also has Goku ever lifted 150 Billion Tons?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/68/Hulk_mount.jpg/404px-Hulk_mount.jpg

War Hulk takes this.

[King Bookah]

Gaara D. Lucci knows Nothing about comics, don't listen to them, Goku wins.

You know nothing of comics if you think Goku can beat the Hulk. I hardly read American comics and I know this.

Why u gotta be so mean WHITEBEARD?:laugh

[Badalight]

Goku was training IN THE AIR with 2 tons on each arm.

This was later increased to 10 tons on each arm and he couldn't lift it.

Though by the end of the series it's assumed he definately would be able to at least punch and kick a few times with them on.

Now each Super Saiyan level increases your power by 50.

40 x 50 x 50 x 50 = 5,000,000.

So essentially he can train with 5 million tons at the end of his arms at his SSJ3 level.

Now Lifting is MUCH easier then having weights at the end of your arms.

Especially PUNCHING with them to.

Someone who could bench 100 pounds would have trouble holding 25 pound weights at the end of their arms.

Hell I actually don't think they could do it.

None the less punch and fly with them.

So Goku lifts WAY more than 5,000,000 tons.

Also, his KI blasts deal massvie daamge and unlike Juggernaut Hulk is not unkillable.

It's pretty hard but it's possible to beat him.

Goku is way faster than Hulk aswell.

[Vynjira]

How is this a stomping?

Please explain.War-Hulk's concept, meaning his purpose was to test the limits of what was suppose to be Classic Juggernaut.

War-Hulk was capable of treating Classic Juggernaut like a toy. No other Hulk ever displayed the power to do the same.

[Orion]

Goku was training IN THE AIR with 2 tons on each arm.

This was later increased to 10 tons on each arm and he couldn't lift it.

Though by the end of the series it's assumed he definately would be able to at least punch and kick a few times with them on.

Now each Super Saiyan level increases your power by 50.

40 x 50 x 50 x 50 = 5,000,000.

So essentially he can train with 5 million tons at the end of his arms at his SSJ3 level.

Now Lifting is MUCH easier then having weights at the end of your arms.

Especially PUNCHING with them to.

Someone who could bench 100 pounds would have trouble holding 25 pound weights at the end of their arms.

Hell I actually don't think they could do it.

None the less punch and fly with them.

So Goku lifts WAY more than 5,000,000 tons.

Also, his KI blasts deal massvie daamge and unlike Juggernaut Hulk is not unkillable.

It's pretty hard but it's possible to beat him.

Goku is way faster than Hulk aswell.

Where was this ever stated,hulk overpowered juggernaut who is in turn stronger then any dbz char,hulk doesnt have the touch goku to win,one thunderclap and its over.

[Vynjira]

Gaara D. Lucci knows Nothing about comics, don't listen to them, Goku wins.Yea, thats a real argument... Don't listen to them because they don't know what they are talking about... coming from someone who doesn't understand the difference between lightspeed and instant..War Hulk takes this.You know thats not War-Hulk?

Also War-Hulk wasn't ever injured on panel despite the beings he was fighting at the time. In addition War-Hulk was the only Hulk that could treat Juggernaut like a Red-Headed Step Child.Goku was training IN THE AIR with 2 tons on each arm.

This was later increased to 10 tons on each arm and he couldn't lift it.

Though by the end of the series it's assumed he definately would be able to at least punch and kick a few times with them on.

Now each Super Saiyan level increases your power by 50.

40 x 50 x 50 x 50 = 5,000,000.

So essentially he can train with 5 million tons at the end of his arms at his SSJ3 level.

Now Lifting is MUCH easier then having weights at the end of your arms.

Especially PUNCHING with them to.

Someone who could bench 100 pounds would have trouble holding 25 pound weights at the end of their arms.

Hell I actually don't think they could do it.

None the less punch and fly with them.

So Goku lifts WAY more than 5,000,000 tons.With all the flaws in that argument, I'd rather just point out that 5million isn't anywhere REMOTELY close to 150billion. 150billion tons wasn't close to dealing with Juggernaut, War-Hulk on the other hand could do things to Juggernaut NOONE else has been able to duplicate. So we're talking a version of Hulk that was many times stronger than 150,000,000,000 tons.Also, his KI blasts deal massvie daamge and unlike Juggernaut Hulk is not unkillable.Savage Hulk has withstood planet busters and was frequently beat by Juggernaut. War-Hulk physically over-powered Juggernaut and was never shown to be so much as scratched. This is not factoring regeneration, just sheer durability.It's pretty hard but it's possible to beat him.It may be possible to beat him but I doubt its gonna happen thru pure force.Goku is way faster than Hulk aswell.Goku's roughly 5,784.9 m / s (Travel)
Calm Hulk roughly 31.3 m / s (Thunderclap)

He can move roughly 184 times faster than Hulk can Thunderclap.

He'd get some 147 meters before a Thunderclap went off assuming Goku started moving away the moment Hulk started the clap.

I'm not sure that'd be fast enough to escape the clap.

[Badalight]

Goku's power level versus Frieza.

300,000

After super saiyan

15,000,000

It says it somewhere.

Look it up, you'll find that answer everywhere.

[Phenomenol]

Here's how,

"Despite his body's high resistance to injury, it is possible to injure the Hulk. He has been injured numerous times by opponents using weapons composed of adamantium. However, the Hulk can regenerate damaged or destroyed tissue with far greater efficiency than an ordinary human. He has proven capable of regenerating all of his skin and most of his muscle tissue, after having them flayed from his body, within a few minutes. It has also been stated that the Hulk's durability (resistance to physical injury), stamina and the efficiency of his healing powers fluctuates with his emotional state, much like his physical strength."

Also has Goku ever lifted 150 Billion Tons?

War Hulk takes this.

I have actually read Hulk comics, And Yet, Goku will kill the Hulk with "kienzen!!" Easy Money, This thread is over, lock it up mods.

[Suzumebachi]

Goku's power level versus Frieza.

300,000

After super saiyan

15,000,000

It says it somewhere.

Look it up, you'll find that answer everywhere.

...sooo ??

[King Bookah]

I have actually read Hulk comics, And Yet, Goku will kill the Hulk with "kienzen!!" Easy Money, This thread is over, lock it up mods.

Isn't Kienzen that energy disk attack? If it is, even if it did cut War Hulk in half, he'd just regenerate. So that won't work.

As for using power levels (made up ones at that), you can't apply them to another verse that does not use them. Big no no

[Purgatory]

That picture of Hulk makes me realize that even if Hell froze over, Goku would not be able to even scratch Hulk. Goku is rapestomped.

[vagnard]

War Hulk can't catch Goku.

Goku can't damage War Hulk.

Draw.

[Badalight]

Idiots.

I was replying to someone else without directly qouting him.

He wanted to know how I figured out Super Saiyan made you 50 times stronger.

And thats why I borught up the power levels.

How many times does 300,000 go into 15,000,000?

50 times!

Those are the power levels of when he was normal, and then when he turned super saiyan.

Besides Goku can lift a lot but we arn't sure how much.

We know that he can train on his arms with 5,000,000.

THATS A LOT TO PUNCH WITH!

[Vynjira]

Goku's power level versus Frieza.

300,000

After super saiyan

15,000,000

It says it somewhere.

Look it up, you'll find that answer everywhere.Even so, power levels do not indicate anything but Ki. Strength and Speed are nigh unrelated.

[Random Nobody]

You know thats not War-Hulk?

I know, that's Savage Hulk. From what I remember, and your argument seems to confirm it, War Hulk is stronger then Savage Hulk. Besides I felt the image would be a nice visual to show just how insane the Hulk's strength feats can be.

EDIT:
We know that he can train on his arms with 5,000,000.

THATS A LOT TO PUNCH WITH!

War Hulk is stronger then Savage Hulk who can lift a hell of a lot more than that, so it wouldn't be far fetched to say he can hit a lot harder too.

[Phenomenol]

War Hulk can't catch Goku.

Goku can't damage War Hulk.

Draw.

War-Hulk CAN be damaged, Hulk's upgrade is not all that magnificent like people portray it to be. Hulk has been damaged by much weaker beings than Goku.

A "Kienzan!!" will kill War-Hulk.

[vagnard]

Idiots.

I was replying to someone else without directly qouting him.

He wanted to know how I figured out Super Saiyan made you 50 times stronger.

And thats why I borught up the power levels.

How many times does 300,000 go into 15,000,000?

50 times!

Those are the power levels of when he was normal, and then when he turned super saiyan.

Besides Goku can lift a lot but we arn't sure how much.

We know that he can train on his arms with 5,000,000.

THATS A LOT TO PUNCH WITH!


Where it was stated that Goku's power in ssj1 was 15.000.000?.

There aren't official numbers after Freezer's one million except when the soldier registred 5 when Trunks was holding his power.

[Vynjira]

We know that he can train on his arms with 5,000,000.

THATS A LOT TO PUNCH WITH!We know he can't, actually. Even IF he could, War-Hulk has him by over a hundred thousand times that.

Do not multiple strength time power levels.

[Random Nobody]

War-Hulk CAN be damaged, Hulk's upgrade is not all that magnificent like people portray it to be. Hulk has been damaged by much weaker beings than Goku.

A "Kienzan!!" will kill War-Hulk.

What part of "The Hulk can fucking regenerate" don't you understand?

[Badalight]

They arn't unrelated at all v-v

The hell are you talking about?

Goku was trying to lift 40 tons and he couldn't.

After turning Super Saiyan he could.

Obviously it increases his strength.

Also figthing Frieza he was getting hsi ass handed to him.

After turning SSJ he was making Frieza cry in pain.

It definately increases ALL of your attributes, no doubt about that.

And 15 million after turning SSJ the first tiem IS an official number.

It's EVERYWHERE. GO look around.

Please do your research before saying that I'm wrong.

And yes training with 5,000,00 pounds is a hell lot harder than lifting weights.

Go ahead. See hwo much you can bench. Then go out and buy some wrist weights and try punching witht hat amount. Can you do it? Didn't think so. Can you get close? Didn't think so. Can youe ven lift up your arm? Didn't think so.

[Phenomenol]

Where it was stated that Goku's power in ssj1 was 15.000.000?.

There aren't official numbers after Freezer's one million except when the soldier registred 5 when Trunks was holding his power.

Actually it is OFFICIALLY stated in the Dragonball Z Daizenshuu's that Goku's powerlevel at Super Saiya-jin 1 in the Freeza saga is "150,000,000!!!."

What part of "The Hulk can fucking regenerate" don't you understand?

Hulk isn't DEADPOOL, he doesn't heal from extremely serious injury instantly. He won't get that time against Goku who can casually destroy the earth with his toe nail.

[Vynjira]

War-Hulk CAN be damaged, Hulk's upgrade is not all that magnificent like people portray it to be. Hulk has been damaged by much weaker beings than Goku.

A "Kienzan!!" will kill War-Hulk.Once again, you prove to have no knowledge of the subject. War-Hulk was NEVER count them NEVER damaged by ANYONE, yes ANYONE. Not on panel at least.
THIS is War-Hulk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Cuo-sama/War-Hulk.jpg

Up top is a weaker Hulk, from the World War Crossover.

[Suzumebachi]

It definately increases ALL of your attributes, no doubt about that.

Trunks, with a higher power level than Cell, got owned by Cell. Trunks had the higher powerlevel, but Cell was that much faster.

[Elyon]

Super-saiyan, not power levels.

War-Hulk CAN be damaged, Hulk's upgrade is not all that magnificent like people portray it to be. Hulk has been damaged by much weaker beings than Goku.

A "Kienzan!!" will kill War-Hulk.


He didn't say War-Hulk couldn't be damaged, he just said Goku couldn't damage him. Which I half agree with.

If "Kienzan" is the disk thing, it probably wouldn't do much. A mad War-Hulk could just smash it to pieces.

[Badalight]

Whatever.

I'm positive the official powerlevel is 15,000,000 or 150,000,000.

Either way it's beastly.

His normal was 300,000 these are rela numbers guys.

After super saiyan his power level was multiplied by 50.

Power levels take ALL of yoru attributes into account.

If you train your speed, guess what? Your power level will rise.

Does it make sense? Not really but it's true.

Just because you have a higher power level doesn't mean you are faster than someone with a lower power level.

That means that their speed attribute is high and their strength isn't.

That is a complete BS argument.

Someone could be 50% strength and 50% speed and have a 100 power level.

Someone could also have 20% strength and 80% speed with a 90 power level.

So who's faster? YEAH, the person with a 90 powerlevel.

So of course my statement is true, you obviously weren't thinking when you said that.

And anyway you go bench something.

Say you can bench 100 pounds.

Now go buy a 100 pound wrist wieght.

Could you life it?

No

Could you punch with it?

No

Goku coudl train with 5,000,000 ton weights.

That means he could lift a LOT more.

A HELL lot more!

Ala he still probably wouldn't go 150,000,000

[Phenomenol]

Once again, you prove to have no knowledge of the subject. War-Hulk was NEVER count them NEVER damaged by ANYONE, yes ANYONE. Not on panel at least.
THIS is War-Hulk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Cuo-sama/War-Hulk.jpg

Up top is a weaker Hulk, from the World War Crossover.

I know who the hell War-Hulk is, and he has very little showings. War-Hulk is NOT much of an upgrade. His regeneration factor would not have increased only his strength. Kienzan can cut through "ANYTHING" and War-Hulk will go down.

He didn't say War-Hulk couldn't be damaged, he just said Goku couldn't damage him. Which I half agree with.

If "Kienzan" is the disk thing, it probably wouldn't do much. A mad War-Hulk could just smash it to pieces.

What is bolded in your post is nonsense! Goku's Kienzan's his @#$ like a tree, or a high profile Energy blast would do it.

[Random Nobody]

And yes training with 5,000,00 pounds is a hell lot harder than lifting weights.

This is true, but are you honestly telling me you think that training with that kind of weight makes his strength equal with a guy that can lift over a hundred times that?

[Elyon]

Kienzan can cut through "ANYTHING" and War-Hulk will go down.

Can't Hulk smash through anything?

It really is a tie. Well, no, Hulk would win. He gets stronger as he gets madder. If Hulk can't beat you, he gets mad. He goes damn near God strength and pounds Goku.

As the battle drags on, Hulk gets stronger. Goku gets weaker. And his power is drained faster with each level.

[Vynjira]

They arn't unrelated at all v-v

The hell are you talking about?

Goku was trying to lift 40 tons and he couldn't.

After turning Super Saiyan he could.

Obviously it increases his strength.The rate of increase doesn't directly correlate with his power increase. Please pay attention..
It definately increases ALL of your attributes, no doubt about that.Did you read what I said power levels do not indicate how strong they have become. Not SSJ, furthermore its a uncorrelated. Even further... Now each Super Saiyan level increases your power by 50.

40 x 50 x 50 x 50 = 5,000,000.40 tons was in his SSJ form. So you get to take out one of those times 50s...

40 X 50 X 50

Now the other two forms were never stated as being the same increase. It was also implied that the SSJ2 was around double to triple SSJ. Anything else is unsubstantiated.

Simply anything over 40 X 3 is not supported by the manga.And yes training with 5,000,00 pounds(tons you mean?) is a hell lot harder than lifting weights.No shit, then again its nowhere near 150billion tons for you to start rationalizing the difficulty and difference you need to make sure your withing that variant. Your still far away from it.Go ahead. See hwo much you can bench. Then go out and buy some wrist weights and try punching witht hat amount. Can you do it? Didn't think so. Can you get close? Didn't think so. Can youe ven lift up your arm? Didn't think so.Got about a 10 times difference, so wheres the other 10 thousand??? Yea not even close..

[Badalight]

No I never said he was as strong as the Hulk.

But I was stating that you guys were underestimating his normal fighting strength.

It would be nice if I knew how FAST Hulk regenerated.

Someone inform me please.

[Phenomenol]

Can't Hulk smash through anything?

It really is a tie. Well, no, Hulk would win. He gets stronger as he gets madder. If Hulk can't beat you, he gets mad. He goes damn near God strength and pounds Goku.

As the battle drags on, Hulk gets stronger. Goku gets weaker. And his power is drained faster with each level.

Even my mom knows that the hulk gets stronger along with his rage, Goku will just blast his @#$ off the planet, Kill him with a Kienzan. It is not a tie.

[Badalight]

Alright.

You should read my whole damned post next time o-o

Goku was struuggling with 40 tons.

This is NOT at the end of the series.

Obviously he gets a hell lot stronger.

I'm assumig he could lift trainw ith 40 by the end of the series pretty easily.

It's never directly stated but it's definately implied.

It's obvious he increases in strength from when that happend.

Hell he could probably train with a lot more than 40 tons.

he can easily walk in 400 times earth gravity so training with 40 tons would be easy to him at the end of the series.

So you'd better keep that extra x 50 in there.

Goku also gets stronger to.

Not in the same way Hulk does but he gets stronger.

Every Near Death experience Goku has he gets a LOT stronger.

if he was about to lose he could run, and come back stronger than before.

If he had a bunch of senzu beans with him this would be easy.

[Elyon]

Even my mom knows that the hulk gets stronger along with his rage, Goku will just blast his @#$ off the planet, Kill him with a Kienzan. It is not a tie.

One blast would need to completely obliterate him. The Hulk would just get stronger and start taking the blast half-way through.

Basically, Goku would run out of energy before the Hulk is incinerated. Or, at the same time.

Hulk is a war-machine (literally with War-Hulk). Goku may not be human but he has as many limits as everyone else.

Now i'm not counting GT at all in any of my posts. I'm only going to SSJ3. No higher.

Oh, and Hulk was flayed alive and regenerated within minutes.

[Random Nobody]

Goku was struuggling with 40 tons.

This is NOT at the end of the series.

He was training with those weights before the Tournament on Earth. He didn't get any significant strength boost after SSJ3 and there's nothing to prove getting SSJ3 increased his strength in Base form.

[EvilMoogle]

It would be nice if I knew how FAST Hulk regenerated.

Someone inform me please.

Well, we never saw War Hulk injured by anything, so we can't really say with him.

One of the classic Hulk forms regenerated from a skeleton to normal in about the time it takes for him to say "someone get me some new pants."

I don't see how Goku could kill War Hulk. I'd say stalemate unless Goku's foolish enough to stay in arms reach of Hulk long enough for Hulk to grab him. If Hulk manages to get his hands on Goku it's over, but Goku _shouldn't_ allow that to happen.

[Badalight]

Lets jsut go with him being able to train with 5,000,000.

Thats the best calculation we can come up with because there is no exact number.

I'd say that is pretty close.

Can Hulk breath in space?

I'm not sure of this but otherwise...

Goku is strong enough t throw hulk off the planet.

Or in other cases blast him off.

Or just teleport to a new planet and use a planet buster on it.

Goku also gets stronger each near death experience he has.

He could get hurt by Hulk and then take a senzu Bean.

He'd be stronger.

Hulk would get matter.

So essentially they both get stronger.

The argument of Hulk constantly getting tougher is now void.

So does Goku.

[Darklyre]

If War Hulk gets ahold of Goku, it won't be a near-death experience. It'll be Goku WISHING for death.

[Random Nobody]

Can Hulk breath in space?

Yes

Goku is strong enough t throw hulk off the planet.

If he gets that close he's fucked.


He could get hurt by Hulk and then take a senzu Bean.

Hulk would tear him to pieces. Besides he doesn't have Senzu beans anyway.

[Darklyre]

Oh, and even if Goku could punch with millions of tons or whatever, Hulk is STILL stronger than that, even in non-War form. During Planet Hulk, the Emperor dropped a bomb that would've forced the planet's fault lines to go nuts. Hulk held together TECTONIC PLATES. WITH HIS BARE HANDS.

[Badalight]

Love that argument.

What do you have to prove The Hulks insane strength?

Scans?

So far all you people have been doing is giving us info that we already knew about.

Your saying that he can beat Goku in one hit.

What proof do you have?

Has Hulk ever destroyed an oponent as strong as Goku?

Please give me scans to prove how strong he is.

Maby I'll consider your arguments then.

[Giovanni Rild]

Love that argument.

What do you have to prove The Hulks insane strength?

Scans?

So far all you people have been doing is giving us info that we already knew about.

Your saying that he can beat Goku in one hit.

What proof do you have?

Has Hulk ever destroyed an oponent as strong as Goku?

Please give me scans to prove how strong he is.

Maby I'll consider your arguments then.

Lol. Hulk clowned people who would jailrape Kakarot.

[Random Nobody]

What do you have to prove The Hulks insane strength?

Scans?

Look on the first page, I already gave you an image. That's Savage Hulk holding 150 Billion Tons by the way, War Hulk is stronger. Also there was already a scan posted of War Hulk beating Jugernaught. That right there should show he'd have no problems beating Goku to death if he gets his hands on him.

[Badalight]

Show me friggin proof.

I have yet to be convinced Hulk is this poerful.

Yes he's stronger than Goku, we've established that.

Now prove that he can take Goku out.

Because Kakarot sustains a lot of punishment.

[Vynjira]

You should read my whole damned post next time o-oI did, and now I'm crossing off everything I have addressed. That has been sufficiently refuted by canon.Goku was struuggling with 40 tons.

This is NOT at the end of the series.

Obviously he gets a hell lot stronger.

I'm assumig he could lift trainw ith 40 by the end of the series pretty easily.

It's never directly stated but it's definately implied.We know, doesn't account for increasing some millions of times in strength.It's obvious he increases in strength from when that happend.Its only useful if you know how much and if there is reason to believe it would make a difference. Which there isn't.Hell he could probably train with a lot more than 40 tons.Could, yes. Does he display that he did? No. Did he display anything that suggests he increased his strength a million fold? No.he can easily walk in 400 times earth gravity so training with 40 tons would be easy to him at the end of the series.Didn't happen tho now did it? We don't argue what Goku could have been only what he's been shown to be.
So you'd better keep that extra x 50 in there.Nope, its gone.Not in the same way Hulk does but he gets stronger.We are all fully aware of all of Goku's abilities. Do not pretend that people at a Naruto Forum would not know of DBZ or have followed the series themselves.Every Near Death experience Goku has he gets a LOT stronger.Hulk gets stronger as the fight rages on as well, furthermore if he gets hit its not gonna be a near death experience its over. In addition your seriously claiming he is gonna get in such a condition and get away from the Hulk and have time to recover? No.if he was about to lose he could run, and come back stronger than before.He wouldn't and never displayed the reasoning skills to do such a thing.If he had a bunch of senzu beans with him this would be easy.He doesn't so don't bring it up.

[Suzumebachi]

Love that argument.

What do you have to prove The Hulks insane strength?

Scans?

So far all you people have been doing is giving us info that we already knew about.

Your saying that he can beat Goku in one hit.

What proof do you have?

Has Hulk ever destroyed an oponent as strong as Goku?

Please give me scans to prove how strong he is.

Maby I'll consider your arguments then.

This post is made of irony and lol.

[Vynjira]

Show me friggin proof.

I have yet to be convinced Hulk is this poerful.

Yes he's stronger than Goku, we've established that.

Now prove that he can take Goku out.

Because Kakarot sustains a lot of punishment.Thunderclap deflecting a universe destroying blast. You asked to be convinced Hulk is that powerful, there it is. Its as canon as SSJ3..Has Hulk ever destroyed an oponent as strong as Goku?Person with universe crushing power, stopped by Hulk.

[Badalight]

So I can't say Goku can train with more than 40 tons?

Then you can't say Hulk can lift any more than 150,000,000 because they were no numbers.

All you guys are saying is that War Hulk is so strong and coudl Kill Goku in one hit.

He's stronger than savage Hulk.

What proof do you have?

Doe sit say he lifts mroe than 150,000,000.

You are all such hypocrites.

You need to listen to your own damned advice.

Stop saying Hulk will rip Goku to shreds and stuff.

And stop saying he's so much stronger than all of the other Hulks without any proof.

Now show something to me and I'll believe but as you said with no numbers we can't assume anything.

If I can't add on that extra X 50 then you hav eno right saying War Hulk is any stronger than Savage Hulk.

[King Bookah]

I see where this thread is going. This will never end.

[Random Nobody]

Then you can't say Hulk can lift any more than 150,000,000 because they were no numbers.

LOOK AT THE GOD DAMNED IMAGE. It says right on there that's he's lifting 150 BILLION tons.

[Giovanni Rild]

I see where this thread is going. This will never end.

Could it be a Jplaya clone? I'm going to play Guild Wars. I sense 1'000 threads of darkness coming.

[Badalight]

LOOK AT THE GOD DAMNED IMAGE. It says right on there that's he's lifting 150 BILLION tons.

Wow you must be a real retard.

I KNOW it says he can lift that much.

OMFG

OK...

Get this.

I said by the end of the series Goku could train with 40 tons becaus ehe obviously got stronger.

Then some other ugy said you can't say that because there is no proof.

What proof do you have that War Hulk got stronger?

Not really any.

Sure he might have beaten tougher oponents but without numbers your arguments mean nothing.

They do mean something but accorsing to the guy up there they don't.

Try and udnerstand what I am actaully saying.

[Dre]

idk anything about war hulk- so goku wins.

[Vynjira]

So I can't say Goku can train with more than 40 tons?Noone said you couldn't. We're saying that you can't play the multiplication game.Then you can't say Hulk can lift any more than 150,000,000 because they were no numbers.I don't care if he's any stronger that alone kills Goku in one hit.

What proof do you have?All you guys are saying is that War Hulk is so strong and coudl Kill Goku in one hit.Savage Hulk is 0/8 against Juggernaut. War-Hulk had Juggernaut as a lil bitch.Doe sit say he lifts mroe than 150,000,000.YES it does, first page... 150,000,000,000 BILLION 9 Zeros not 6.You are all such hypocrites.

You need to listen to your own damned advice.The difference is we didn't multiply Hulk's strength from 40 to 5 million. Hulk was stated at 150 BILLION.Stop saying Hulk will rip Goku to shreds and stuff.

And stop saying he's so much stronger than all of the other Hulks without any proof.We have Proof, War-Hulk was the ONLY Hulk that could over-power Juggernaut. Every other Hulk got its face pounded in.

Now show something to me and I'll believe but as you said with no numbers we can't assume anything.First Page Hulk 150billion to Goku's 40. There happy?If I can't add on that extra X 50 then you hav eno right saying War Hulk is any stronger than Savage Hulk.Yes I do, because I'm not saying how much stronger he is just that he is. We know Goku is stronger in that form. Your the only one here pulling numbers out of their ass.

[King Bookah]

Ya know, things were alot better when the original Jplaya was here. These clones are just terrible. Jplaya had can(n)on, these rip-offs have squirt guns.

[Random Nobody]

Not to mention Goku lifted those 40 tons well training for the tournament on Earth which of course leads to the Buu Saga. The Saga where he DIDN'T GET A POWERUP. He already had SSJ3 before it and he admitted it to Vegeta (who got pissed because he was holding back in there fight). The only people who got powerups during Buu Saga where Goten, Trunks, and Gohan.

Vynjira already gave you the reasons why War Hulk is stronger then normal Hulk. You have nothing but speculation that Goku might be stronger but still nowhere near even Savage Hulk's strength, much less War Hulk.

[Badalight]

Oh my gosh v-v

For one the 150,000,000 was a typo.

Two I'm talking about War Hulk not Savage Hulk.

Three just beacuse someone can beat Juggernaut doesn't mean they can beat Goku, Totally different universes here.

Goku lifts way more then 40 dumbass.

He can pretty much trian with 40, in his normal form.

If you havn't realized training with weights is harder than lifting them.

Go see how much you can bench.

They go out and buy a wrist weight of that same amount.

You WON'T be able to lift it. Not even close, especially with your foreamrs.

None-the-less it would be hell to punch with it.

Now seriously.

Show me some proof of War Hulks strength.

Give me a scan showing me how he can HURT something.

I don't want to see how much he can lift anyway.

I don't have scans but atleast I'm using facts and numbers.

You giving opinions and stating things that you have not proven.

And obviously since you said people here are DBZ fans I really don't ahve to prove myself now do I?

[Vynjira]

Then some other ugy said you can't say that because there is no proof.What we said if you can't make numbers up. Noone said you couldn't say Goku had gotten stronger.What proof do you have that War Hulk got stronger?Multiple things, the armor was meant to enhance Hulk as he was and he was able to over-power a being that out of a dozen fights he was never able to over-power. So its obvious he was stronger.

Krillin fights Buu 15 times he looses each time. Then he has some armor and he beats Buu, is he stronger or weaker than before?Sure he might have beaten tougher oponents but without numbers your arguments mean nothing.

They do mean something but accorsing to the guy up there they don't.Noone said without numbers your arguments mean nothing. Get this thru your head. If you don't have numbers DON'T use them(the numbers). Say what you gotta say but if there are no numbers don't mention numbers.

[Phenomenol]

Oh, and even if Goku could punch with millions of tons or whatever, Hulk is STILL stronger than that, even in non-War form. During Planet Hulk, the Emperor dropped a bomb that would've forced the planet's fault lines to go nuts. Hulk held together TECTONIC PLATES. WITH HIS BARE HANDS.

That won't help him because he is going to Die by Goku (Energy blasts/Kienzan). As for the rest of the non sense about Hulk's regeneration....


Goku will kill the Hulk with "Kienzans!!" all day long. Hulk's Durability is SUSPECT, Remember what Wolverine has done to him. When wolvie was Death, he almost killed the Hulk. Hulks regeneration factor isn't THAT fast. as shown by Hulk the end. Hulk still needed a few minutes to regenerate. In Future imperfect its confirmed by the Maestro that it takes alot longer to heal from a broken Neck. The professor was in bed ALL DAY. As joe Fixit it took a few miniutes to heal from having his heart cut out. He was still bleeding all over the place. Against the Destroyer he took ONE energy blast and was cut open. It was bleeding everywhere and had to hold the wound. Hulk isn't DEADPOOL, he doesn't heal from extremely serious injury instantly. The closest he has come to that was in his fight with Vector, when all the skin and musle was repelled of his body. He healed very quickly from that but thats only when he was concentrating on healing. He won't get that time against Goku who can can CASUALLY trdesoy the planet with his toe nail!!! Hulk is too slow to do a damn thing about it, Game over Goku wins.

Lock it up mods.

[Badalight]

Alright then, lets stop arguing and continue debating v-v

And if Hulk can use his power enhancing armor then it's fair that Goku gets to bring some Senzu Beans along with him.

Still I want to see scans v-v

I don't want people to just say Hulk is plain stronger,

What we know is Hulk is stronger.

We have no idea how much stronger he is.

It could be hardly at all, and it could be a lot.

As an estimate using a bit of math I could say that Goku could lift somewhat more than a billion.

This is lifting not training and no it's not a total guess, I did some math.

And yes I know that still a HELL lot weaker then Savage Hulk, no need to tell me that.

How much pain can Hulk witstand though?

Is there a scan of him actually getting hit?

Not hurt but HIT.

And no we arn't asking for a lock because we are debating. It wouldn't be a battle thread if everybody agreed on a winner, this is supposed to happen, it's good not to have a curbstomp.

[Crimson King]

War Hulk wins. He's wearing CELESTIAL ARMOR!

[omgbbq]

strength isn't really a matter in a fight. goku's ki is more powerful than hulk. plus he can just nuke hulk from a distance

[King Bookah]

Ya know, that was actually quite impressive Phenom. You seem to actually know alot about comics (far more than me). It's clear that you have some hidden debating skills, you just let the fanboyism get in the way. If you can get rid of that, you'd be a quite formiddable debater indeed. Fanboyism aside, that was quite a knowledgable post.

[Giovanni Rild]

strength isn't really a matter in a fight. goku's ki is more powerful than hulk. plus he can just nuke hulk from a distance

I should really sig this.

[Crimson King]

Here's hulk thunderclapping away a UNIVERSE destroying attack:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1562/darkcosmos17ctgv9.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5085/darkcosmos23zlyd1.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6601/darkcosmos30sykc2.jpg

[Vynjira]

Three just beacuse someone can beat Juggernaut doesn't mean they can beat Goku, Totally different universes here.We know. Stop there WE KNOW. Moreover get this, We only said Juggernaut to point the difference between Savage and War-Hulk. Get this, 150billion tons WASN'T Savage Hulk. He was weaker than Savage Hulk.Goku lifts way more then 40 dumbass.

He can pretty much trian with 40, in his normal form.

If you havn't realized training with weights is harder than lifting them.

Go see how much you can bench.

They go out and buy a wrist weight of that same amount.

You WON'T be able to lift it. Not even close, especially with your foreamrs.

None-the-less it would be hell to punch with it.

Now seriously.Throw it all around the table. Your trying to account for 40 to 150 billion. Its not happening.. Stop with that argument. We know and we've said it before you signed up for this site. We know. Do you understand the difference between 40 and 150 billion?I don't have scans but atleast I'm using facts and numbers.40 tons is facts, him being stronger is a fact. Multiplying his strength destroys the arguments.You giving opinions and stating things that you have not proven.All I see from you is random attempts at justifying an increase in strength/muscle of over a MILLION times whats been shown with NO justification, other than He must be stronger because I think he's really powerful.

[Enclave]

Even the 50x increase associated with SSJ wasn't an absolute value. It fluxuated wildly throughout the series. SSJ gave smaller and smaller increases as the series went on. Hell if you go by Babidi's power level measurements it amounted to less than a 10x increase in power by that point. Hell if I recall it was even less than a 5x increase.

Of course then there is the fact that Power Level did not directly have the same affect on strength. 2 times powerlevel did not mean 2 times the physical attributes. Just meant 2 times more ki.

[Badalight]

Where does it say that attack could destroy a universe?

Besides, reflecting anaattack is a whole lot different than hurting somebody, and a whole lot different than taking the hit.

[Phenomenol]

Here's hulk thunderclapping away a UNIVERSE destroying attack:[/IMG]

Thankyou for posting Hulk Thunderclapping away a crappy POCKET DIMENSION, which isn't even a FULL UNIVERSE.


YOU LOSE AGAIN, ROOKIE!!!!

[Crimson King]

He didn't thunderclap a universe away. He thunderclapped a universe DESTROYING attack away.

[Badalight]

Even the 50x increase associated with SSJ wasn't an absolute value. It fluxuated wildly throughout the series. SSJ gave smaller and smaller increases as the series went on. Hell if you go by Babidi's power level measurements it amounted to less than a 10x increase in power by that point. Hell if I recall it was even less than a 5x increase.

Of course then there is the fact that Power Level did not directly have the same affect on strength. 2 times powerlevel did not mean 2 times the physical attributes. Just meant 2 times more ki.

Whatever.

It's an estimate for a reason.

Besides even, if I was a little high his arm strength is still much weaker than Hulks.

He didn't thunderclap a universe away. He thunderclapped a universe DESTROYING attack away.

Where does it say that the blast oculd destroy a Universe?

[Crimson King]

Where does it say that attack could destroy a universe?

Besides, reflecting anaattack is a whole lot different than hurting somebody, and a whole lot different than taking the hit.

read it: COSMOS! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos) MEANS UNIVERSE!

RIPPED ASUNDER means BEING DESTROYED!

[Crimson King]

DAMN! I SUCK SO HARD!

You sir, have FAILED!

COSMOS means UNIVERSE!

[WHITEBEARD]

You know nothing of comics if you think Goku can beat the Hulk. I hardly read American comics and I know this.

Why u gotta be so mean WHITEBEARD?:laugh

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????:huh

[EvilMoogle]

And if Hulk can use his power enhancing armor then it's fair that Goku gets to bring some Senzu Beans along with him.
Er, it's the armor that makes Hulk into War Hulk.

How much pain can Hulk witstand though?
Pain makes Hulk angry...

Is there a scan of him actually getting hit?
I don't have any scans, but Hulk gets hit all the time. Nobody's suggesting that Goku wouldn't be able to hit the Hulk.

Some of us are skeptical that Goku will be able to hurt him though.

Again, personally I see it as a stalemate. Unless it's forced to go on until there's a winner, in which case Hulk wins because Goku can't. Goku would die of old age if nothing else.

[vagnard]

[QUOTE=Phenomenol;8081092]Actually it is OFFICIALLY stated in the Dragonball Z Daizenshuu's that Goku's powerlevel at Super Saiya-jin 1 in the Freeza saga is "150,000,000!!!."[QUOTE]

Daizenshuu isn't official. It wasn't written by Akira Toriyama. All the numbers after Freezer's first form are just speculation.

[Vynjira]

And if Hulk can use his power enhancing armor then it's fair that Goku gets to bring some Senzu Beans along with him.YOU CHOSE THE ARMOR!.. ok, simply War-Hulk is HULK WITH Celestial Armor. THATS War-Hulk. No armor means No War-Hulk. Thats the ONLY thing that makes him War-Hulk, noone said the armor was fair. Then again noone understood why you wanted Hulk in that armor...We have no idea how much stronger he is.We know he's alot stronger, which is what we know about Goku. So it nulls. Meaning its 40 tons to 150 billion tons.It could be hardly at all, and it could be a lot.We know its alot, for the same reason we know SSJ3 Goku is alot stronger than SSJ Goku.As an estimate using a bit of math I could say that Goku could lift somewhat more than a billion.

This is lifting not training and no it's not a total guess, I did some math.Yea want me to use some math?How much pain can Hulk witstand though?He can withstand being reduced to a skeleton and having 2/3rds of his brain destroyed....And no we arn't asking for a lock because we are debating.He's actually pouting because the Mods have been locking threads before he could get the last word. He also seems to think the Mods agree with his views of DBZ always winning.

[Badalight]

It's easy to say you can do something.

It's hard to do it.

Vegeta at this weakest sate in DBZ said his Galick Gun could destroy the Earth.

Could it?

We don't know, it never happend.

But if it could then his full powered self could destroy 700 planets with his Galick Gun.

Mind you thats one of his weak attacks.

Goku can lift more than 40 tons dumbasss v-v

He can TRAIN with 40 tons, in his NORMAL state.

Lifting and training are two completely different thing.

Go lift some weights, max out and see how much you can carry.

Now put that same amount on your wrist and ankles.

Try lifting it now, furthermore punch with it.

You won't be able to do it. Don't evne try.

STOP saying it's 40 tons to 150 billion tons because that is COMPLETELY off.

Goku can LIFT around 1 billion.

I know 1 billion and 150 billion are still far apart but it's a hell lot closer than 40.

[Crimson King]

It's easy to say you can do something.

It's hard to do it.

Vegeta at this weakest sate in DBZ said his Galick Gun could destroy the Earth.

Could it?

We don't know, it never happend.

But if it could then his full powered self could destroy 700 planets with his Galick Gun.

Mind you thats one of his weak attacks.

You don't read do you? Hulk can deflect the attack with his thunderclap alone.

Where the hell are you pulling the 700 from?

[Vynjira]

which isn't even a FULL UNIVERSE.One could say the same of the DBU which consists of merely 4 galaxies.... You fail.

[Badalight]

You don't read do you? Hulk can deflect the attack with his thunderclap alone.

Where the hell are you pulling the 700 from?


I'm not a retard I read.

Did I ever say he couldn't reflect the attack?

No, I didn't.

Maby YOU need to be the one reading my posts more carefully.

I said reflecting the attack is a lot different that getting hit by it and it's different than how hard you can hit someone. Thunderclapping an attack away does not show someones strength. Thats the reason apaprently it was posted, to show Hulk is strong. That proves nothing. He knocked an attack away, big deal.

And I got the 700 from math.

And I'm not doing it again.

You just take Vegeta's power levels into consideration and all that crap. But anyway it's like 700.

[Phenomenol]

You sir, have FAILED!

COSMOS means UNIVERSE!!

No moron, I read that Comic and it is a Pocket-Dimension, notice how it says with YOUR scans that it was reflected back upon "MY own cosmos??"

It is nothing more than a pocket Dimension.

Daizenshuu isn't official. It wasn't written by Akira Toriyama. All the numbers after Freezer's first form are just speculation.

The Daizenshuu's ARE OFFICIAL, Akira Toriyama's STaff (Bird Studio's) did it along with Akira Toriyama even has his interviews.

[Suzumebachi]

He knocked an attack away, big deal.

He knocked an attack away by clapping.

You have to be fucking strong to do that.

[Crimson King]

I'm not a retard I read.

Did I ever say he couldn't reflect the attack?

No, I didn't.

Maby YOU need to be the one reading my posts more carefully.

I said reflecting the attack is a lot different that getting hit by it and it's different than how hard you can hit someone. Thunderclapping an attack away does not show someones strength. Thats the reason apaprently it was posted, to show Hulk is strong. That proves nothing. He knocked an attack away, big deal.

And I got the 700 from math.

And I'm not doing it again.

You just take Vegeta's power levels into consideration and all that crap. But anyway it's like 700.

Hulk can do the same to all on Goku's attacks easily.

So lifting a 150 billion ton mountain isn't strength?
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/155/mediumsecretwarsstrengtvi4.jpg


You got the 700 outta your ass you mean.

[Badalight]

And when I said it's easy to say you can do something but it's harder to do it I was refering to the guy who said he could blow up a Galaxy yet it was never seen if he actually could or not.

Try and use that brain I know you have.

And Goku can lift more than 40 tons so lets stay off that subject OK?

Whoever the hell keeps thinking he can only lift 40 is the dumbest person ever.

I've explained how much he can lift.

It's WAY more than 40.

He trains with 40, lifts in the millions.

End of story on the weighing.

Hulk is somewhere from 100-1,000 times stronger tahn Goku in how much he can lift, tahts all we know.

Then agin Dragon Ball Z character have gone up against feats like that before.

Frieza was more tahn 1,000 times stronger tahn the people fighting him and they pulle dout a win in the end.

Your a complete moron. I did the math. Go look in the stupid Juggernaut war hulk vegeta thread wherever it is.

I took vegeta's power level when he could destroy the planet then i saw what it was at the end of the anime.

You divide the numbers, and BAM!

It gives you 700! Thats th enumber of planest he can destroy, easy math.

Thats like 2nd grade stuff v-v

[vagnard]

The Daizenshuu's ARE OFFICIAL, Akira Toriyama's STaff (Bird Studio's) did it along with Akira Toriyama even has his interviews.

The final component which most fans consider to be canonical information is the several daizenshuu which were released only in Japan. These "Perfect File" books are reference guides to the series and often contain character and attack names and other clarifiations which are not present in the manga or anime themselves. There are no current plans to release these books in the US and they are out of print even in Japan.

Many fans however question how canon the actual books are. The books were not actually written by Akira Toriyama. The Power Levels given in the books are often disregarded by some fans who find inconsistencies in them. One notable example is that Nappa's power level is stated to be 4,000 in the books, though this is never given in the manga along with assortment of other readings given. Both the manga and Daizenshuu state Goku's power level during the fight to be 8,000 which means he was twice Nappa's power level suggesting he should have had an easy time defeating him without using Kaiô-ken. This is not true as Nappa manages to trade blows with Goku and after deflecting Nappa's strongest attack, comments that the fight will take forever without the use of Kaiou-ken, contradicting the stated information in the daizenshuu.

The daizenshuu weren't written neither by Toriyama or Bird Studios...these are just fan guides written in Japan with inconsistences.

[Crimson King]

No moron, I read that Comic and it is a Pocket-Dimension, notice how it says with YOUR scans that it was reflected back upon "MY own cosmos??"

It is nothing more than a pocket Dimension.


Wrong. I can say the universe we're in is MY universe to someone outside the universe. That's what he's saying.

[Random Nobody]

He can TRAIN with 40 tons, in his NORMAL state

No, he can't.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4426/360807og8.gif
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/243/360808pu1.gif

He freaked out about 10 tons in Normal state, he can't train with 40 tons well normal.

[vagnard]

No, he can't.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4426/360807og8.gif
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/243/360808pu1.gif

He freaked out about 10 tons in Normal state, he can't train with 40 tons well normal.

That translation is wrong....each one of the weights are 2 tons. Kaioh Sama transform them into 10 tons EACH one of them...in total....40 tons.

[Badalight]

It's speculation.

By the end of the series he gets a little stronger.

He could probably give out a few punches in that weight.

Thent he math goes from there...

All in all War Hulk STRENGTH-WISE is around 1,000 time stronger.

Like I said DBZ characters have done feats like this before, the obvious one being Frieza.

[Vynjira]

STOP saying it's 40 tons to 150 billion tons because that is COMPLETELY off.No its not, they are both stronger than those numbers if you apply imaginary numbers to one you do it to the other.Goku can LIFT around 1 billion.Well here's the thing when you use numbers, they need to come from places other than your ass.

I know 1 billion and 150 billion are still far apart but it's a hell lot closer than 40.Goku is not 1 billion tons in anyones wildest imagination.

You said Strength increases with power level right?

To go from 40 to a billion thats 25 million times a jump.

Since you like power levels whats SSJ Goku's power level? 180,000,000? At the time before the tourney. So SSJ3 needs to be at 4,500,000,000,000,000

I don't think ANYONE has ever claimed SSJ3 Goku was that powerful.

Yet if you wanna use bad numbers thats how you get bad math.

Thats why you don't multiply numbers with Power Levels and thats why you don't use power levels. Since we're using power levels... the site that claims SSJ Goku was 180,000,000 claims SSJ3 was 720,000,000 thats times 4. so times 4 to 40 tons.. Oh snap its not a billion now is it...?

[EvilMoogle]

So lifting a 150 billion ton mountain isn't strength?

That's a common misconception. Hulk didn't lift the mountain.

He caught it.

I can lift a 50lb bag of cement easily enough.

I cannot catch a 50lb bag of cement thrown off of a 3-story building without severe injury.

So Professor Hulk in the above should be able to lift far more than that (or alternatively can throw 150B tons to the same height it was when it was dropped on him).

Regardless it's way more power than anything in DBZ survived without regeneration, so if Hulk can hit Goku he can kill Goku.

[vagnard]

In any case.....all of you are talking about 150 billion as it was Hulk "regular strength"....that was under a great amount of pressure and stress. Hulk's base strength are 100 tons. Goku can lift 40 tons in base mode. I'd say he is at last 100 tons in ssj3.

So...in a regular battle they aren't so different unless Hulk receives a great boost of anger.

[Crimson King]

So...in a regular battle they aren't so different unless Hulk receives a great boost of anger.

Which he will, since Goku will be punching him.

[ezxx]

I wonder how much a spirit bomb weighs

[Badalight]

Ugh, I'm using numbers because there isn't any other way to see how much difference ther eis.

Now lets get off this topic.

Obviously Hulk is stronger.

I've said this many times.

Now we can shutup about that.

Goku LIFTS mroe than 40.

Thats obvious.

VERY obvious.

Logically thinking if everything goes the same way then Hulk at most is 30,000 times tougher.

Thats obviously not completely right and it should be less than 10,000.

That is taking everything into consideration.

Thats in training. If this was lifting it would be more like...

2,000.

Anyway don't reply to this because i'm done with the lifting thing.

[Random Nobody]

That translation is wrong....each one of the weights are 2 tons. Kaioh Sama transform them into 10 tons EACH one of them...in total....40 tons.

Even in that case, it still disproves the claim that Goku can train with 40 tons well in a normal state.

[vagnard]

Which he will, since Goku will be punching him.

I doubt...considering he never displayed again a feat like that except when he destroyed an asteriod twice the size of the Earth.

We know there is a giant difference of strength between them but is hard to say how well Hulk will withstand a energy ha capable to wipe the Earth easily.

I have seen blasts way weaker than atomic bombs stun Hulk. I don't know if Hulk can resist a continuous burst of ki attacks.

[Vynjira]

Thats like 2nd grade stuff v-v*snaps fingers* SO thats why your numbers are so fucked up!!

Seriously, Your math is REALLY bad. Well not the process, the choice in numbers. See in math, your not allowed to make up numbers. Its ok in Government.. well its not but they do it alot...

All in all War Hulk STRENGTH-WISE is around 1,000 time stronger.Try a billion. Then you'll be close.. now if you want me to make up numbers for Hulk then I'll gladly do it, but for now..

Get it thru your head, Goku isn't that strong. You can't use power levels to gauge strength. You can't use SSJ forms either.

We know he's stronger, from Canon its implied he's some 6 times stronger and then the extensions and training with it we could multiple 6 times 10. I'd give you 40 times 75. Why? because I'm fairly certain its less than that number. Because there is no reason it should be more. Nothing suggests it would either.

[EvilMoogle]

Is anyone contesting the fact that War Hulk could kill Goku if he can get his hands on him?

No?

Then lets move on to Goku's ability to evade War Hulk and Goku's ability to damage War Hulk, as those seem to be the factors that are in question yet.

[Badalight]

Hulk is NOT a billion times stronger than Goku.

That WAAAAY overestimated.

That would mean Goku lifts 150 tons.

No, Goku lifts much more than that.

I already told you.

Form base to SSJ1 he gets a x 50 boost.

THAT IS REAL NOT FAKE.

We arn't sure about the other forms but we can assume it's the same.

Though since your being so pick we won't.

We'll also say that Goku can handle 30 tons instead of 40 since he never actually did lift that much.

30 x 50 = 1500.

Alright so your already wrong there buddy and we are only in SSJ1.

Going to SSJ2 since your so picky I'll only muliply it be 5.

That would be 7500.

And by 5 again...

37500.

This is trainging, not lifting.

I could probably train with about 1/10 of what I bench.

X 10

375000.

Thats very low compared to my estimates.

The only reason it's THAT low is because you were being so picky.

You have no idea how strong going from SSJ1 -2 -3 is.

For all we know it COULD be 50.

So essentially it may be WAY WAY WAY more than what we got.

But anyway Hulk also did that once.

It's not like you see him going around lifting that much.

He was protecting peopel and he was MAD.

But we'll keep it there since War Hulk is stronger.

150,000,000,000 divided by 375000 = 400,000

So instead of telling me to not pull numbers out of my ass don't just guess he is 1 billion times stronger than Goku because that is FAR off.

From what we see here he is still a lot stronger than Goku.

These are with low numbers so for all we know it could be a lot less of a power gap between these two.

Now I'm done with numbers.

[azngamer87]

How does hulk breath in space when he is still human.

[Suzumebachi]

Goku's ability to damage War Hulk

According to this Bada guy, Goku is a galaxy buster.



Now I'm done with numbers.

Oh thank Yoda.

[Badalight]

I never said Goku could destroy a galaxy.

I'd love to see that qoute.

I did math and figured out Vegeta could essentially shoot a blast strong enough to destroy 700 planets.

For one thats not Goku, and two 700 planets is NOT a galaxy, not even close.

Stop making shit up.

[Suzumebachi]

I did math and figured out Vegeta could essentially shoot a blast strong enough to destroy 700 planets.

Your math is based on bullshit and powerlevels that don't mean anything.

[Badalight]

My math is based on their abilities.

Obviously you don't know what your talking about.

My math is fine.

It's simple.

And it is right to be using power levels.

Power levels = power

omg crazy right?

I already explained why I am using power levels.

You should actually read some of the thread.

And you still never told me where I said Goku could blow up a Galaxy.

Even if Goku could lift 1 billion tons does that mean he could blow up a galaxy?

No.

It doesn't.

[EvilMoogle]

How does hulk breath in space when he is still human.

I think technically he just holds his breath. His durability is more than strong enough to keep him from exploding/freezing/burning/etc and his healing factor can stave off suffocation.

But to my knowledge they haven't clarified the point, so the above is just assumption.

[Suzumebachi]

My math is based on their abilities.

And when has Vegeta displayed the ability to destroy 700 planets?


My math is fine.

It really isn't.


Power levels = power

Then explain Trunks vs Cell.

[Comic Book Guy]

How does hulk breath in space when he is still human.

He doesn't -- there's no air.

However, he's recently demonstrated that he can survive being in space and remain so, during Planet Hulk.

[Vynjira]

Ugh, I'm using numbers because there isn't any other way to see how much difference ther eis.Your using numbers you made up. STOP.

Logically thinking if everything goes the same way then Hulk at most is 30,000 times tougher.Because you've never read a Hulk comic and your basing your entire argument saying a character can't do something because YOU don't believe it even tho YOU have no knowledge of the character?Thats obviously not completely right and it should be less than 10,000.Because of? Oh right because its your opinion...Thats in training. If this was lifting it would be more like...

2,000.Right come again?

SSJ Goku: over 40 tons.
Full extension, while fighting multiply 10 for outstretched and times 7 for actually moving that shit around.
10 + 7 times 40.. giving Goku the benefit..

680 Alright, thats number is greater than what Goku can lift as SSJ.

Vegeta implies that SSJ2 will more than triple your power. We'll be safe and say 4 times.. so now we're certain SSJ2 cannot lift more than 2,720 tons.

Now SSJ3 noone ever said how much stronger that made him. But lets see what number it couldn't have been. Goku and Vegeta were about equal at SSJ2 right? Vegeta could not beat Fat Buu but SSJ3 Goku claimed that he prolly could... Vegeta almost had Buu and SSJ3 Goku was kinda toying with him. Which would be the same if Vegeta doubled his power he would have won.. easily. So even more Benefit for Goku, times 3!8,160 Tons, Is more than Goku can lift.
Prof-Hulk: 150 billion tons.

Prof-Hulk is 18,382,353 times stronger, and War-Hulk is even stronger but its moot to argue that.

I gave Goku every possible benefit with any number. There is now way Goku can lift MORE than that. Unless strength increase more than power level, however the reverse is true so that won't be a prob.

Either way, I'm fairly certain 90% of this forum would say I was over-generous with the numbers..

[Badalight]

I already did retard.

Think of it this way.

Say Trunks had the power level of 100.

That power level was split into strength and speed.

He was 80% strength and 20% speed.

Cell had only the power level of 90.

Though, his stats were 80% speed and 20% strength.

In this case Cell was fast enough to win.

If you multiplied Trunks level by 50 then how much percent would he have in strength?

Still 80%.

Unless he constantly trained it differently from the others.

And to they guy dissaproving my math.

You can stop, it's not easy for my to explain how I arrived there but my answer is closer than yours.

You still obviously don't understand what I am doing. And like I said stop with the nubmers jeez.

We arn't supposed to be arguing, we are DEBATING.

We'eve establish Hulk could well likeyl be 30,000 times stronger than Goku.

I've staying wtih that.

and it doesn't even matter, Hulk is still a hell lot stronger and will most likely oko Goku if he has any sepcial moves.

Stop with the numbers now, seriously.

[Suzumebachi]

That power level was split into strength and speed.

And where does it say this happens? Prove it. Show me the scan of Trunks and Cell saying that.



You can stop, it's not easy for my to explain how I arrived there

Because its bullshit with made up numbers.


We'eve establish Hulk could well likeyl be 30,000 times stronger than Goku.

You're not even arguing War Hulk you know.

[Badalight]

It never said it's split up into strength and speed.

I was using a freaking example to help you understand v-v

And my numbers are NOT made up.

It's not that hard to figure out what I am doing.

I've explained it multiple times and I'm sick of having to repeat myself to you simple minded fool.

My numbers are correct.

End of story.

And I know I'm not comparing to War Hulk because I have no numbers on him.

thus I used the biggest number I could find for Savage Hulk.

That being 150,000,000,000.

If you would use that brain of yours you could figure out how I arrived at my answer.

My numbers are NOT made up.

Try doing some research before saying that I'm wrong.

And yes I could say the same to myself.

[azngamer87]

He doesn't -- there's no air.

However, he's recently demonstrated that he can survive being in space and remain so, during Planet Hulk.

Well if goku can't win then he can blow up the planet killing him and leaving hulk floating in space. Sooner or later hulk will turn back to bruce thus he will die due to lack of air.

I say tie.

[Suzumebachi]

It never said it's split up into strength and speed.

I was using a freaking example to help you understand v-v

No, you just made that up.

You are so full of bullshit dude.

I asked you to explain why, Trunks with a powerlevel higher than Cell, was beaten by Cell, with a weaker powerlevel.

Yes, Cell was faster. But you said that its because they split their power levels? Bullshit.

Power levels hardly mean a damn thing besides which character can beat which other character.

[Comic Book Guy]

With regards to Power Levels, it's quite tricky.

According the the PL of 5 for the farmer, he'd be theoretically capable of decimating quite a bit of the moon.

In addition, we don't know how actual Power Level readings (the numbers) would fluctuate with regards to inccreasing/decreasing one's strength and speed.

Well if goku can't win then he can blow up the planet killing him and leaving hulk floating in space. Sooner or later hulk will turn back to bruce thus he will die due to lack of air.

I say tie.

1) It's not in Goku's character to suddenly blow up the planet.

2) Goku can't survive in space as well.

3) Hulk can stay as Hulk for a indefinite amount of time, and I do mean indefinite, more so in face of a threat. During Planet Hulk, Hulk only reverted back to Bruce Banner after 1) a confrontation with Banner when he had momentarily the upper hand 2) when Hulk was temporarily depleted of his gamma energies and 3) when he revealed Bruce to his then-wedded wife for the first time.

[Adjective-Noun]

War Hulk is a prime example of Western-Style comics sheer level of ridiculousness. Sure he'd win, what with them almost completely leaving the original concept of the Hulk behind and just giving him a bunch of random stuff like being able to survive in space, but it wouldn't be cool or very heroic. It's seems that most superheros aren't very heroish anymore.

But anyway, yeah, War Hulk unless Goku can pull a Spirit Bomb. He's so popular I bet even War Hulk would give him some power for that thing.

[Badalight]

No, you just made that up.

You are so full of bullshit dude.

I asked you to explain why, Trunks with a powerlevel higher than Cell, was beaten by Cell, with a weaker powerlevel.

Yes, Cell was faster. But you said that its because they split their power levels? Bullshit.

Power levels hardly mean a damn thing besides which character can beat which other character.

You have no idea how stupid you sound right now.

Maby you should open your mind up and TRY to understand the point I was making.

Obviously what I was trying to tell you is to much for your mind to handle.

You comprehension skills are thimble.

Get out of this debate please because all your doing is bitching about my numbers.

If your going to stay then try and be resourceful and actaully DEBATE.

What I said was correct, your thinking WAAY to logical here.

Therefore - auto fail.

Your head is like locked up.

It's like you can only believe hard cold facts.

Man your like my step dad.

And he's not a good person to be like mind you.

[Comic Book Guy]

War Hulk is a prime example of Western-Style comics sheer level of ridiculousness.

Silver Age Superman and stories.

Sure he'd win, what with them almost completely leaving the original concept of the Hulk behind and just giving him a bunch of random stuff like being able to survive in space, but it wouldn't be cool or very heroic.

Quite a few characters have deviated from the original concept that were its base.

Take Batman for example: when he was first conceived, he wielded a gun, and kept doing so for a few issues.

It's seems that most superheros aren't very heroish anymore.

Modernity, I suppose.

But anyway, yeah, War Hulk unless Goku can pull a Spirit Bomb. He's so popular I bet even War Hulk would give him some power for that thing.

Hmm.

[azngamer87]

With regards to Power Levels, it's quite tricky.

According the the PL of 5 for the farmer, he'd be theoretically capable of decimating quite a bit of the moon.

In addition, we don't know how actual Power Level readings (the numbers) would fluctuate with regards to inccreasing/decreasing one's strength and speed.



1) It's not in Goku's character to suddenly blow up the planet.

2) Goku can't survive in space as well.

3) Hulk can stay as Hulk for a indefinite amount of time, and I do mean indefinite, more so in face of a threat. During Planet Hulk, Hulk only reverted back to Bruce Banner after 1) a confrontation with Banner when he had momentarily the upper hand 2) when Hulk was temporarily depleted of his gamma energies and 3) when he revealed Bruce to his then-wedded wife for the first time.

Well goku blowing up the planet is a true desperation move. Once every thing is gone hulk will be floating in space for years, so I am willing to bet that after a while when every thing is com again he will change back. It is not a matter of if but when.

[Suzumebachi]

You have no idea how stupid you sound right now.

Maby you should open your mind up and TRY to understand the point I was making.

Obviously what I was trying to tell you is to much for your mind to handle.

You comprehension skills are thimble.

Get out of this debate please because all your doing is bitching about my numbers.

If your going to stay then try and be resourceful and actaully DEBATE.

What I said was correct, your thinking WAAY to logical here.

Therefore - auto fail.

Your head is like locked up.

It's like you can only believe hard cold facts.

Man your like my step dad.

And he's not a good person to be like mind you.

Concession accpeted.

BTW, no one gives a rats ass about your step dad.

[Random Nobody]

You have no idea how stupid you sound right now.

Maby you should open your mind up and TRY to understand the point I was making.

Obviously what I was trying to tell you is to much for your mind to handle.

You comprehension skills are thimble.

Get out of this debate please because all your doing is bitching about my numbers.

If your going to stay then try and be resourceful and actaully DEBATE.

What I said was correct, your thinking WAAY to logical here.

Therefore - auto fail.

Your head is like locked up.

It's like you can only believe hard cold facts.

Man your like my step dad.

And he's not a good person to be like mind you.

Stop trying to insult other people, your really bad at it.

[Suzumebachi]

Especially when you are in no position to insult anyone or anything.

[Badalight]

I'm not trying to insult him.

He's just making me mad v-v

He obviously doesn't know the term think outside the box.

I didn't make up my numbers.

What I said was true.

He/she just doesn't understand that.

Plus that persons reminding me a lot of my step dad.

Not a good subject for me.

By the way, no ones perfect.

I know I'm nowhere near perfect, don't have to tell me that.

[Comic Book Guy]

If this thread can't remain civil, then I'll close the thread.

[Shadow Replication 1480]

Well goku blowing up the planet is a true desperation move. Once every thing is gone hulk will be floating in space for years, so I am willing to bet that after a while when every thing is com again he will change back. It is not a matter of if but when.
It's a matter of it never happening. Like CBG said, it's not like Goku to basically commit suicide like that and if he did end up drifting out in space, he'd never revert back to Banner due to being extremely pissed about it.

[Badalight]

Goku wouldn't deliberately kill himself.

[Suzumebachi]

I didn't make up my numbers.

What I said was true.

Your numbers are made up and assumed.

You seem to think training with 40 tons is the same as lifting 40 tons and that catching 150 billion tons is also the same as lifting it. They aren't. At all.

Then you went and did that whole jive with 80% of Trunks' power level was strength. What the hell? You made that up. That is such bullshit.


Plus that persons reminding me a lot of my step dad.

NOBODY CARES.


I'm not trying to insult him.

Yes you were. You were just bad at it.

[Havoc]

I'm not trying to insult him.

He's just making me mad v-v

He obviously doesn't know the term think outside the box.

I didn't make up my numbers.

What I said was true.

He/she just doesn't understand that.

Plus that persons reminding me a lot of my step dad.

Not a good subject for me.

By the way, no ones perfect.

I know I'm nowhere near perfect, don't have to tell me that.

:rotfl :rotfl

[mystictrunks]

Eh,War Hulk could just bust the planet then jump off.

[Badalight]

Your numbers are made up and assumed.

You seem to think training with 40 tons is the same as lifting 40 tons and that catching 150 billion tons is also the same as lifting it. They aren't. At all.

Then you went and did that whole jive with 80% of Trunks' power level was strength. What the hell? You made that up. That is such bullshit.




NOBODY CARES.



Yes you were. You were just bad at it.


I explained the whole 40 ton issue thing many times.

Training with 40 tons is harder than lifting 40 tons.

I never said they were the same. I said the oposite.

Say someone could bench 200 pounds.

Try getting wrist weights and then lifting your arms. You won't be able to do it. Now try punching with those wieghts on. You won't be able to do it.

Simple thats obvious.

The 80% thing and the 20% thing was just an exmaple.

In no way did I mean that was real.

I was stating that the reason Cell won was because of hsi immense speed advantage. Even though his power level was lower. Just in that power level his speed was greater. Try to make sence out of that... because I sure can't. Hard for me to explain like I said, thus giving examples is the only way but your not completely understanding the reasoning behind them.

And stop trying to to make your self seem higher than me by cussing me out. That doesn't make you sound cool at all. Frankly I don't care if you cuss at me. It doesn't matter to me if someone over the internet hates me. Hate me all you want, it really doesn't bother me.

I've read some of your posts. You really are immature. Talking about sex and being boozed up, your just like every other delinquent child these days.

I fully understand the power gap between Hulk and Goku.

The whole Weight thing should not have gone that far, and I apologize for it.

It didn't even matter really, we knew from the start who was stronger, so I used math with REAL numbers and I figured out a round number. It may have been off, I don't know, ans I don't care I was just trying to get an idea of the power gap between the two fighters.

Now whatever, I'm done.

I apologize for any offenses I sent towards you.

You could be nice and say your sorry to, but thats your choice.

Now whatever, get back on topic before this gets locked.

[Havoc]

I've read some of your posts. You really are immature. Talking about sex and being boozed up, your just like every other delinquent child these days.

:rotfl :rotfl

[Vynjira]

Look, Goku's not listing 1,000 tons ever. Deal with it, this is as bad as lightspeed arguments.

For the final time, just because they are above a said number doesn't mean they are any number above that number just because of what you think it should be.

Flat out, Hulk just Hulk is billions of times stronger than Goku. Goku is 184 times faster than Hulk's hands.. Thats how it breaks down with actual calculable numbers from canon sources.

Lastly 7 pages about War-Hulk vs Goku... this is a curbstomp because at some point War-Hulk is not gonna care if he destroys the planet and Goku cannot survive without the Planet. He can't IT because they would be in an amalgam world where they are the only two Ki signatures for him to lock onto.

[Suzumebachi]

Training with 40 tons is harder than lifting 40 tons.


So then where is your exact number for how much Goku can lift that you claim is completey right coming from? You're assuming way too much with your calculations.

I was stating that the reason Cell won was because of hsi immense speed advantage.

You think I don't know that? He fucking said it himself.

I was telling you to explain the powerlevels, which you didn't do. You made something up. I was trying to point out why power levels are stupid and useless. Power levels are no base for saying how many planets someone can blow up.

Like CBG said, do you think that farmer with shotgun can actually blow up a part of the moon?


And stop tryin gto to make your self seem higher than me

Clearly, I don't need to try.


I've read some of your posts. You reall are immature. Talking about sex and being boozed up, your just like every other delinquent child these days.

1. Yeah. I'm a slut. What of it?
2. I don't drink and don't talk about it.
3. I guarantee you I am older than you.


Now whatever, I'm done.

Give step dad my regards and tell him I'll see him Thursday when he fucks me in my asshole. Animal style.


I apologize for any offenses I sent towards you.

Then why send them same post?


You could be nice and say your sorry to, but thats your choice.

I'm sorry.

[Vynjira]

I'm sorry.Someone hacked your account suzu.. or some mod altered your post!!!

[Havoc]

I apologize for any offenses I sent towards you.

I'm sorry.

Ok, now kiss and make up.

Ok, I'm gone, bye guys.

[Random Nobody]

Look, Goku's not listing 1,000 tons ever. Deal with it, this is as bad as lightspeed arguments.

For the final time, just because they are above a said number doesn't mean they are any number above that number just because of what you think it should be.

Flat out, Hulk just Hulk is billions of times stronger than Goku. Goku is 184 times faster than Hulk's hands.. Thats how it breaks down with actual calculable numbers from canon sources.

Lastly 7 pages about War-Hulk vs Goku... this is a curbstomp because at some point War-Hulk is not gonna care if he destroys the planet and Goku cannot survive without the Planet. He can't IT because they would be in an amalgam world where they are the only two Ki signatures for him to lock onto.

Of course there's also the possibility of Goku doing what DBZ characters usually do and trying to fight hand to hand first. Goku's a lot faster then the Hulk but hasn't he hit people faster than him before?

[Vynjira]

Of course there's also the possibility of Goku doing what DBZ characters usually do and trying to fight hand to hand first. Goku's a lot faster then the Hulk but hasn't he hit people faster than him before?Well that was my initial evaluation... because Goku always tries to tussle with the person he's fighting..

[Enclave]

Form base to SSJ1 he gets a x 50 boost.

Like I already told you. That only applied in the Frieza saga. In the Buu saga it gave less than a 3.75x increase.

How do we know this? Yakon's Kili reading was 800 and Goku had the upper hand in their fight while he was in base form so it is only logical that Base Goku's Kili reading would have been greater than 800. After Goku went SSJ his Kili reading was 3,000. So Goku in SSJ had a Kili rating 3.75 times higher than Yakon's and he was already stronger than Yakon before going SSJ so that means by the Buu Saga SSJ wasn't even CLOSE to a 50x increase. In fact it was less than a 3.75x increase.

Stop throwing around that huge 50x increase. It isn't the least bit relevant. SSJ counted for a hell of a lot less later in the series than it did when it first was introduced.

Oh and some are saying it is a draw as Hulk cannot catch Goku. Ya that is wrong. Hulk has caught Silver Surfer mid flight. He certainly could catch the MUCH slower Goku if Goku came in close to bust it up in the melee which you KNOW he would.

That is one dead Goku.

[Birkin]

Like I already told you. That only applied in the Frieza saga. In the Buu saga it gave less than a 3.75x increase.

How do we know this? Yakon's Kili reading was 800 and Goku had the upper hand in their fight while he was in base form so it is only logical that Base Goku's Kili reading would have been greater than 800. After Goku went SSJ his Kili reading was 3,000. So Goku in SSJ had a Kili rating 3.75 times higher than Yakon's and he was already stronger than Yakon before going SSJ so that means by the Buu Saga SSJ wasn't even CLOSE to a 50x increase. In fact it was less than a 3.75x increase.

Stop throwing around that huge 50x increase. It isn't the least bit relevant. SSJ counted for a hell of a lot less later in the series than it did when it first was introduced.

Oh and some are saying it is a draw as Hulk cannot catch Goku. Ya that is wrong. Hulk has caught Silver Surfer mid flight. He certainly could catch the MUCH slower Goku if Goku came in close to bust it up in the melee which you KNOW he would.

That is one dead Goku.

It's a matter of multiplying 50 times when it comes to the original power levels, not the kili system.

[Enclave]

It's a matter of multiplying 50 times when it comes to the original power levels, not the kili system.

Prove that statement. Go on, I'm waiting.

[Birkin]

Prove that statement. Go on, I'm waiting.

It's pretty obvious the power levels read by the scouters are different than the kili system. In the scouter, it is multiplied by 50 times while in kili it's different.

[dommyman18]

Hulk

Goku is purely the persification of spawned shonen heroes.

Hulk is a legend.

Plus Punching reality > Blowing up the earth.

[Enclave]

It's pretty obvious the power levels read by the scouters are different than the kili system. In the scouter, it is multiplied by 50 times while in kili it's different.

All that we know is that it uses a different scale in measuring. Nothing suggests however that the multipliers are in any way different. For instance.

Say just for the sake of argument Goku's power level was the same as Yakon's. That would be 800. Now if SSJ was a 50x increase then instead of 3,000 we would have been given 40,000.

Honestly man, if you are going to say that the Kili system is such a vastly different measurement system where 3,000 is 50x 800 you are going to HAVE to give some evidence to back this up as there is nothing that suggests this. Also no, your own opinion isn't good enough. I want facts not speculation and wild crazy theories.

[Birkin]

Goku is purely the persification of spawned shonen heroes.

Goku set how the Shonen today looks so take that comment somewhere else.

[Birkin]

All that we know is that it uses a different scale in measuring. Nothing suggests however that the multipliers are in any way different. For instance.

Say just for the sake of argument Goku's power level was the same as Yakon's. That would be 800. Now if SSJ was a 50x increase then instead of 3,000 we would have been given 40,000.

Honestly man, if you are going to say that the Kili system is such a vastly different measurement system where 3,000 is 50x 800 you are going to HAVE to give some evidence to back this up as there is nothing that suggests this. Also no, your own opinion isn't good enough. I want facts not speculation and wild crazy theories.

Unfortunately I can't provide any proof of this as it was never stated. Although my opinion is speculation, yours is as well. No one stated that kili multiplies your power with the same as the original scouter readings.

[Enclave]

Common sense and logic is on my side. Wild speculation is on your's. If you are going to make a claim that 3,000 is 50 times more than 800 you are going to have to back it up if you want anybody to actually listen to your ramblings.

[dommyman18]

Goku set how the Shonen today looks so take that comment somewhere else.Oh my bad, I meant to say is that Goku is primary reason we have so many stupid ass cliched shonen heroes with unrealistic strenght and speed. He's the persification of every single shonen hero after him.

[Birkin]

Common sense and logic is on my side. Wild speculation is on your's. If you are going to make a claim that 3,000 is 50 times more than 800 you are going to have to back it up if you want anybody to actually listen to your ramblings.

I'll have to say you win on this one. Although mine is not wild speculation either. If their power level increases so much more in scouter form than kili form, it indicates that kili is narrowed down and shouldn't be considered the same as the original power ratings. I cannot show proof that it multiplies with 50 either at this point but I'm pretty sure it's said somewhere.

Oh my bad, I meant to say is that Goku is primary reason we have so many stupid ass cliched shonen heroes with unrealistic strenght and speed. He's the persification of every single shonen hero after him.

No problem. :) I probably knew what you meant, just wasn't sure. :)

[Enclave]

I assure you it isn't said anywhere. There is nothing that suggests that SSJ is still a 50x increase by the Buu saga. Hell in the Cell Saga you can already see SSJ not being nearly as much of a boost as it was in the Frieza Saga. The only explanation is that as their base forms increase in power their SSJ forms multiplier decreases which actually suggests that there is no multiplier at all but in fact some other value. Also some characters get a larger SSJ increase than other characters.

Seriously Goku, a few years back I was probably a bigger DBZ fan than you currently are. I really do know what I am talking about when it comes to this.

[master bruce]

Hulk

Goku is purely the persification of spawned shonen heroes.

Hulk is a legend.

Plus Punching reality > Blowing up the earth.



goku ripped a hole through dimention too, with a fireball.


goku is toos fast.
hulk catching surfer was just bad writing at its best.

surfer is ungodly fast, so hulk catching him should be taken as bad, extremely bad writing and nothing more.


in this fight it not a popularity contest or bad writing staff, this is a straight up who will win fight.


when people post bad writing feats that are illogical based on the facts of certain matters like surfer is FTL and hulk caught him, knowing full well that hulk is like about mach speed in reflexes alone(only), it makes me sick.

People, hulk catching surfer is as bad a writing job as batman wingind hulk with a karate kick.

Please don't post those type of bad writing feats.
Whoever writes those types of feats should be punched in the face.....Hard.


Goku too many techniques. Goku too battle smart. Goku too motivated(if earth is the line, goku will find a way to win if he is the only line of defnse, even if he dies in the process.Goku too fast.Goku can hit hulk thousand times before hulk can land one blow.Oh and when goku hits hulk it will phase him so don't even say it won't. Goku's level of punches can destroy mountains. Goku too skilled. Hulk stronger(ungodly strong), but strength isn't always everything given the situation.


Only real advantage hulk has is strength and maybe durability.


Goku does take planet busting blasts and keeps fighting.

Hulk hit goku 3 or 4 times and the fight is over. I know that, but Hulk won't land a finger on goku.


Hulk would dominate goku if this were a strength feat match or an armmwrestling match, but its not. This is a fight match and Goku has this one beat as long as he doesn't get grabbed or hit.

This he can do.

Goku wins 7/10.
Goku destroys all.

[Darklyre]

Goku has no way of killing War Hulk, unless he can somehow obliterate all of him within the first attack, which I sincerely doubt. Every subsequent hit just makes Hulk stronger.

[A]

How is Goku even going to hurt War Hulk?
I mean the guy sat and listen to when Black Bolt read every single world in the Bible for him.
A scream from Black Bolt messed up Galacus a bit.

War Hulkd seemed to have the same durability (yes he even resisted Black Bolt's scream)

War Hulk will pound Goku senseless.

[A]

Time for some serrious correction.

goku ripped a hole through dimention too, with a fireball.
Goku never did that, just Shin Boo and SSJ3 Gotenkusu did that, both far beyond Goku's power.

goku is toos fast.
hulk catching surfer was just bad writing at its best.
Considering that the Silver Surfer have gone a half million lightyears in a splitt second, which equals 15,768,000,000,000 times faster at least.

surfer is ungodly fast, so hulk catching him should be taken as bad, extremely bad writing and nothing more.
Indeed, but Hulk is far faster than you think.


in this fight it not a popularity contest or bad writing staff, this is a straight up who will win fight.
That's why Goku lose every single time.

when people post bad writing feats that are illogical based on the facts of certain matters like surfer is FTL and hulk caught him, knowing full well that hulk is like about mach speed in reflexes alone(only), it makes me sick.
It really doesnt matter, Hulk's durability makes any hits landed by Goku seem like mosquito bites.
Hulk has smashed through a comet, with a size double to earth's.
Hulk has caused a dimension to colapse with his thunderclap etc.

People, hulk catching surfer is as bad a writing job as batman wingind hulk with a karate kick.
Not that bad, a runner doenst necesserly have good reflexes.

Please don't post those type of bad writing feats.
Whoever writes those types of feats should be punched in the face.....Hard.
Search them up.

Goku too many techniques. Goku too battle smart. Goku too motivated(if earth is the line, goku will find a way to win if he is the only line of defnse, even if he dies in the process.Goku too fast.Goku can hit hulk thousand times before hulk can land one blow.Oh and when goku hits hulk it will phase him so don't even say it won't. Goku's level of punches can destroy mountains. Goku too skilled. Hulk stronger(ungodly strong), but strength isn't always everything given the situation.
What good is techniques if none of them are effective?
He would never destroy the earth, if he did however he would die, and since Hulk can breath in space, he would live.

Only real advantage hulk has is strength and maybe durability.
No he's pretty fast as well, and can leap 5 kilometers.
And the thunderclap is not to be messed with.

Goku does take planet busting blasts and keeps fighting.
Yeah well this is War Hulk, he'd punch through Goku like he was made of butter.

Hulk hit goku 3 or 4 times and the fight is over. I know that, but Hulk won't land a finger on goku.
Thunderclap then, and it would be more like one hit.


Hulk would dominate goku if this were a strength feat match or an armmwrestling match, but its not. This is a fight match and Goku has this one beat as long as he doesn't get grabbed or hit.
Hulk caused a dimension to fall sunder, certainly Goku wouldent be a problem.

This he can do.

Goku wins 7/10.
Goku destroys all.
More like: War Hulk
10,00/10,00

[Spy_Smasher]

War Hulkd seemed to have the same durability (yes he even resisted Black Bolt's scream).That is sick. A BB whisper knocked out base hulk. War Hulk must be a beast.

[omgbbq]

Goku has no way of killing War Hulk, unless he can somehow obliterate all of him within the first attack, which I sincerely doubt. Every subsequent hit just makes Hulk stronger.

then he will obliterate every atom of hulk

[A]

That is sick. A BB whisper knocked out base hulk. War Hulk must be a beast.
That what I'm saying, War Hulk seems like Trion Juggernaut, like if there was no restriction to his power.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6131/whvsbbkt2.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6012/whvsbb2sv1.jpg
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8001/whvsbb3sv6.jpg
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3166/whvsbb4ed3.jpg

[Locard]

¨War Hulk is a slowpoke¨ ¨he cant lay a finger on Goku¨ Where are the dbfans getting that ridiculous idea from?

Base Hulk can react faster than sound and catch missiles on daily basis
and it's safe to assume that WH is way faster

War Hulk would laugh with Goku's strongest punch, but Goku would be splattered with a backhand from WH. And as the match continues, Goku will get hit eventually, given that Goku cant really harm WH at all.

[vagnard]

Hulk wins in terms of physical strength. Any discussion about that is futile. We should focus in War Hulk's ability to catch Goku and if Goku can damage Hulk with energy attacks.

I'd say a continuos burst of energy attacks from Goku ssj3 would damage War Hulk seriously.....the same with the Genkidama.

If Hulk hits Goku once is over. But if Goku keeps his distance and smash Hulks with Kame Hame has continuosly then he has a chance. He could send War Hulk to the space with a Kame Hame Ha rendering him useless.

[Locard]

The problem is that War Hulk is powered by the energy of thousands of galaxies thanks to the celestial armour

In other words: unlimited energy. Goku cant do shiet against him.

@Astner
that's not War Hulk, that's World War Hulk

War Hulk is way stronger than that:sag

[Comic Book Guy]

Wait a minute. . .

Are we discussing World War Hulk or War Hulk, the one with the Celestial armour?

[A]

Wait a minute. . .

Are we discussing World War Hulk or War Hulk, the one with the Celestial armour?

Appearently War Hulk ... The one with the Celestial armor, yes.
Now Goku's even more fucked.

[Locard]

Cause i know someone is going to ask this:

War Hulk = the mofo with the celestial armour

World War Hulk = the name of the most recent Hulk saga

[A]

Cause i know someone is going to ask this:

War Hulk = the mofo with the celestial armour

World War Hulk = the name of the most recent Hulk saga
I've just read about World War Hulk, but I've seen a scan of War Hulk sitting and listening to Black Bolt, while Black Bolt is reading every word in the bible for him.

I just confused them. :(

[Vynjira]

THIS is War-Hulk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Cuo-sama/War-Hulk.jpg

Up top is a weaker Hulk, from the World War Crossover.This is War-Hulk not World War Hulk, like the image suggests. OP thought they were the same person.

[pitbulkun]

Hulk is really crappy compare to Goku :)

[Dr. Boskov Krevorkian]

Hulk is really crappy compare to Goku :)

Wow.

I have nothing to honestly add to this debate, therefore making this spam, but...

Never in my existence have I ever come across a more convincing mode of argument.

[Vynjira]

Wow.

I have nothing to honestly add to this debate, therefore making this spam, but...

Never in my existence have I ever come across a more convincing mode of argument.I'm convinced..

[Badalight]

Alright so time for some serious debating.

We are over the fact that Hulk is stronger.

Still I think it would take more than one punch to beat Goku.

I just don't see DBZ characters losing to a melee attack.

I think the only way to beat Goku in one hit would be if War Hulk Thunder Clapped him.

I bet Goku could take quite a few punches from the Hulk before wearing down.

DBZ characters take a LOT of punishment, and they deal out a lot to.

A Kamehameha from Goku could literally blast Hulk off of the planet.

That gives Goku enough time to rest up.

And I'll bring up this factor again.

Every near death experience that Goku has, or any other saiyan for that matter, they will get stronger.

Just like the Hulk gets stronger when he gets mad.

If goku was almost dead and knocked Hulk away for awhile and had time to heal up then BOTH fighters would be stronger when the battle continued.

So thats pretty stalemated there.

Also I know Goku wouldn't be doing any planet busting because he can't survive without oxygen, but here is how strong a blast from him can be.

I am using Power Levels in this, and it IS right to use them.

The higher your power level, the higher your KI.

Therefore Goku with a power level of 200 is twice as strong when it comes to Ki attacks as Goku with a power level of 100.

In the manga Master Roshi destroys the moon with a powerlevel of 160.

After Goku reached the power level of 15,000,000 I'm pretty sure they stopped counting because the numbers got far to big.

Lets do the math on this shall we.

15,000,000 divided by 160 = 93750. Meaning a concentrated
Kame-ha-meha could destroy a planet with the mass of 93750 Earth Moons.

Now The earths moon is 1/6 the size of Earth.

93750 divided by 6 = 15625.

Thus, a blast from Goku could destroy a planet with the mass of 15625 Earths.

If that strong of an attack is concentrated into one spot (Kamehameha) then of course it would do some sort of damage to the Hulk.

It may be a lot, and it may be very little but he won't shrug it off without a scratch.

Plus Goku has an attack (Forget the japanese name) that cuts through anything.

If Hulk gets hit with that he'll have to waste time and regenerate.

Plus we don't know how fast Hulk can regenerate.

Goku could slice off every one of Hulk's limbs and then charge up a blast big enough to completely destroy Hulk, leaving no remains like he did to Kid Buu, so the Hulk would NOT be able to regenerate.

[Darklyre]

In the time it takes for Goku to charge even a minor blast, War Hulk would regenerate all of his limbs. Base Hulk has, bar none, the FASTEST regeneration rate in the Marvel Universe. War Hulk amps that up even more. Considering Wolverine grew back from a skeleton in a matter of minutes, and Deadpool can reform himself from liquid in a minute or two, Hulk would be ridiculously fast.

[A]

Powerlevels before DBZ is useless don't use them in your calculations.
Goku after have drinked of the holy water and were about to train with God (Kami) he faced Popo, which literally owned him.
And canonly, Popo said that God was a thousand times more powerful than him.
Kami >1000x> Popo > chibi Goku
Then we have Piccolo ect.

Piccolo against Raditzu where at 400, and was more powerful than Kami, which would mean that chibi Goku (after the holy water) was less than 0,4 pl.

[mystictrunks]

Hulk is really crappy compare to Goku :)

Best Response Yet.

[Badalight]

Powerlevels before DBZ is useless don't use them in your calculations.
Goku after have drinked of the holy water and were about to train with God (Kami) he faced Popo, which literally owned him.
And canonly, Popo said that God was a thousand times more powerful than him.
Kami >1000x> Popo > chibi Goku
Then we have Piccolo ect.

Piccolo against Raditzu where at 400, and was more powerful than Kami, which would mean that chibi Goku (after the holy water) was less than 0,4 pl.

Alright then.

Recalculation time.

Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta just by waving his finger with a power level of 500,000.

With goku's 15,000,000 that would be 30.

So assumingly by waving his finger goku can shoot a blast destroying the mass of 30 planet Vegeta's.

We have no idea how big that was but obviously pretty big because Saiyans Ruled everything back then.

But we'll just say it was the same size as Earth even though it was most likely larger.

And yes that was cannon even though it was in a movie.

He creator said so, mhm.

Goku easily destroys 30x the mass of Earth. Hulk destroyed twice the mass of earth.

That wasn't War Hulk I know, but this isn't Goku at his full potential either.

Dragon Ball Z Ki blasts are not a force to be messed with. :nod

[Random Nobody]

How about we stop using bogus numbers based off a system of measuring strength that has already contradicted canon (Darklyre's post) and focus on what Goku can actually do to War Hulk. Which isn't much really.

[Badalight]

It's only bogus if you do the crossover form DragonBall to DBZ.

That second one should be pretty solid.

With a blast of that magnitude concentrated into an area it could seriously hurt he hulk.

And now I have a question of Hulks Regen abilites.

What happens if his legs get chopped off?

Does he grow new legs or do the peices attach back together? or what...

[Random Nobody]

It's only bogus if you do the crossover form DragonBall to DBZ.

There the same damn series, only the anime has a different name.

[mystictrunks]

It's only bogus if you do the crossover form DragonBall to DBZ.

They're the same series . . .They never retitled the manga in Japan they just had a time skip like in Naruto.

[~Shin~]

DBZ rape again?

[Shidoshi]

That what I'm saying, War Hulk seems like Trion Juggernaut, like if there was no restriction to his power.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6131/whvsbbkt2.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6012/whvsbb2sv1.jpg
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8001/whvsbb3sv6.jpg
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3166/whvsbb4ed3.jpgAnd that's not even War Hulk. That's like...Savage Hulk.

War Hulk is much stronger, and presumably, much more durable, considering the Celestial technology in his armor.

[Havoc]

Black Bolt is so cool.

[Badalight]

There the same damn series, only the anime has a different name.

But according to that guy on the last page the power crossovers don't make sense.

And I'm not a retard, I know they are the same series v-v

[Random Nobody]

I don't remember claiming you where retarded, the point is the Power Level system is incredibly unreliable and has even contradicted canon, unless where to believe Farmer with Shotgun is superior to Kid Goku when he was capable of beating Mercenary Tao. Therefore arguing PL doesn't make for a very good argument, its better to argue actually feats.

[Gaelek_13]

War-Hulk's concept, meaning his purpose was to test the limits of what was suppose to be Classic Juggernaut.

War-Hulk was capable of treating Classic Juggernaut like a toy. No other Hulk ever displayed the power to do the same.

That tore it for me since I have doubts Goku could defeat Juggernaut.

[Havoc]

That's nice and all, except War Hulk wasn't treating Juggs like a toy, nice hyperbole though.

[Shadow Replication 1480]

That wasn't War Hulk I know, but this isn't Goku at his full potential either.
War Hulk isn't Hulk at his full potential, either. He's obviously one of the stronger incarnations for sure, but there are supposedly more powerful/dangerous incarnations in Banner's mind.

[Suzumebachi]

Alright then.

Recalculation time.

Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta just by waving his finger with a power level of 500,000.

With goku's 15,000,000 that would be 30.

So assumingly by waving his finger goku can shoot a blast destroying the mass of 30 planet Vegeta's.

We have no idea how big that was but obviously pretty big because Saiyans Ruled everything back then.

But we'll just say it was the same size as Earth even though it was most likely larger.

And yes that was cannon even though it was in a movie.

He creator said so, mhm.

Goku easily destroys 30x the mass of Earth. Hulk destroyed twice the mass of earth.

That wasn't War Hulk I know, but this isn't Goku at his full potential either.

Dragon Ball Z Ki blasts are not a force to be messed with. :nod


Now explain Farmer with shotgun.

[Havoc]

The farmer was obviously of saiyan heritage, he was just never trained how to control his ki, and was unaware of his powers. Come on guys, it isn't that hard to figure out.

[Vynjira]

War Hulk isn't Hulk at his full potential, either. He's obviously one of the stronger incarnations for sure, but there are supposedly more powerful/dangerous incarnations in Banner's mind.There is nothing that suggests that. Except for over-zealous Hulk fans trying to pull a Jplaya..

[King Bookah]

Now explain Farmer with shotgun.

Shhh....we must never mention Farmer with shotgun in the presence of mere mortals.

[Shadow Replication 1480]

There is nothing that suggests that. Except for over-zealous Hulk fans trying to pull a Jplaya..
Not even Devil Hulk?

[Vynjira]

Not even Devil Hulk?Not even Devil Hulk.

[EvilMoogle]

Not even Devil Hulk?

Devil Hulk and Guilt Hulk are theorized as being stronger because (quite frankly) they look intimidating.

But they've never been seen in action, so we don't really know how powerful they would be. It's pointless to speculate until we actually get to see them in the comics.

And even if they do come out it will be difficult for them to compare to War Hulk as he was enhanced by cosmic levels of power (Celestial Tech).

Though personally I'm going to guess that the WWH-arc Hulk will come to be stronger than War Hulk, because frankly he'll need to be to fight Sentry.

[Havoc]

If he even fights Sentry.

[Vynjira]

Devil Hulk and Guilt Hulk are theorized as being stronger because (quite frankly) they look intimidating.

But they've never been seen in action, so we don't really know how powerful they would be. It's pointless to speculate until we actually get to see them in the comics.

And even if they do come out it will be difficult for them to compare to War Hulk as he was enhanced by cosmic levels of power (Celestial Tech).

Though personally I'm going to guess that the WWH-arc Hulk will come to be stronger than War Hulk, because frankly he'll need to be to fight Sentry.Your suggesting Sentry could stop, Classic Juggernaut...? Was there a feat where Sentry took Thor's Godblast?

[EvilMoogle]

Your suggesting Sentry could stop, Classic Juggernaut...? Was there a feat where Sentry took Thor's Godblast?

Well, off-panel Sentry fought Galactus to a stalemate. Might not be able to physically stop Juggernaut, but he's obviously packing considerable power.

I guess "surpass" War Hulk isn't quite what I meant, but defiantly should be on the same general powerlevel.

[Vynjira]

Off-panel doesn't mean much. Sure it happened circumstances are what we need for it to be a respectable feat...

[The Sentry]

Goku will win as he is much faster and powerful than the Hulk. Hulk lost to Spiderman for fuck sake stop acting like hes the SHIT cos he is not

[mystictrunks]

Goku will win as he is much faster and powerful than the Hulk. Hulk lost to Spiderman for fuck sake stop acting like hes the SHIT cos he is not

Goku gets assaulted by Chi-Chi for christs sake.


See I can do it to.

[Havoc]

You're an idiot.

[Random Nobody]

Goku will win as he is much faster and powerful than the Hulk. Hulk lost to Spiderman for fuck sake stop acting like hes the SHIT cos he is not

You're an idiot.

I'd have to agree with Havoc here. In case you haven't noticed many Marvel characters get this thing called a "Jobber Aura". Its how crazy shit happens, like Spiderman beating Firelord, a fucking Herald of Galactus.

[Yōkai]

Goku will win as he is much faster and powerful than the Hulk. Hulk lost to Spiderman for fuck sake stop acting like hes the SHIT cos he is not >

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i166/arakasii/bombs/37.jpg

[Enclave]

There is nothing that suggests that. Except for over-zealous Hulk fans trying to pull a Jplaya..

Savage Hulk has the potential to go beyond that of any other Hulk we have yet seen. I would say when Jean totally supressed Banner 100% in Savage Hulk and amped up his anger so he could fight Onslaught was probably the strongest we have ever seen any Hulk. Not for certain of course, but I would say odds are good Savage Hulk in that state could have possibly taken War Hulk on.

Of course War Hulk has VERY considerable power while at the same time retains his mind which would in a way still make him much more fearsome of an opponent than the Savage Hulk who tore open Onslaughts psi-armour.

Goku will win as he is much faster and powerful than the Hulk. Hulk lost to Spiderman for fuck sake stop acting like hes the SHIT cos he is not

The only thing Spidy can do for the most part that isn't forcing Hulk to job is avoid Hulk. It isn't because of his speed by the way (before you say that if Spidy can dodge Hulk then Goku can much more easily) it is because of his spider-sense. He know's where Hulk is going to attack even before Hulk does. That is the ONLY reason why Parker isn't splattered when they fight.

Also, yes Goku will be able to avoid Hulk for a while. However sooner or later he is going to get hit and when that happens odds are rather high that he is going to die.

[Vynjira]

Savage Hulk has the potential to go beyond that of any other Hulk we have yet seen.Any Hulk NOT enhanced with Celestial Armor.I would say when Jean totally supressed Banner 100% in Savage Hulk and amped up his anger so he could fight Onslaught was probably the strongest we have ever seen any Hulk.More likely the strongest Savage Hulk could become.Not for certain of course, but I would say odds are good Savage Hulk in that state could have possibly taken War Hulk on.Odds are even better that War-Hulk would crush that Hulk like an Egg. Odds are even better that War-Hulk would have one-shot Onslaught's armor and not been TKO'd.

[A]

Alright then.

Recalculation time.

Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta just by waving his finger with a power level of 500,000.

With goku's 15,000,000 that would be 30.

So assumingly by waving his finger goku can shoot a blast destroying the mass of 30 planet Vegeta's.

We have no idea how big that was but obviously pretty big because Saiyans Ruled everything back then.

But we'll just say it was the same size as Earth even though it was most likely larger.

And yes that was cannon even though it was in a movie.

He creator said so, mhm.

Goku easily destroys 30x the mass of Earth. Hulk destroyed twice the mass of earth.

That wasn't War Hulk I know, but this isn't Goku at his full potential either.

Dragon Ball Z Ki blasts are not a force to be messed with. :nod
What the hell are you talking about, have you even read the Japanese manga?
Fruiza: 530,000
Fruiza, after first transformation: 1,060,000
Fruiza, after second transformation: 2,120,000
Fruiza, final form: 4,240,000
Goku: 3,000,000

[Goku and Fruiza powers up]
- Here Fruiza says he's going to show Goku 50% of his power.

Fruiza, final form 50% of maximum power: 60,000,000
Goku, KaiOken 10: 30,000,000
Goku, KaiOken 20: 60,000,000

Goku, Super saiyajin: 150,000,000
Fruiza, final form 100% of maximum power: 120,000,000

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4997/daizplszc0dz9.jpg

Instead of watching the non canon anime, which where the story tellers have no idea what they're talking about. Read the japanese or the american viz.

And another thing don't use the powerlevel to prove that he's strenght, speed of chi powers have multiplied. Appearently it don't work in the same way.
As a child Goku lifted a car, approximately 1 ton. In the begining of Babidi saga Goku had problem with 40 tons, even though his "powerlevel" have at least billion folded since then.
If it was true all the Z fighters would fly many times faster than light.

[A]

Oh, so you don't get confused.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6929/nlgh8.png

[Badalight]

What the hell are you talking about, have you even read the Japanese manga?
Fruiza: 530,000
Fruiza, after first transformation: 1,060,000
Fruiza, after second transformation: 2,120,000
Fruiza, final form: 4,240,000
Goku: 3,000,000

[Goku and Fruiza powers up]
- Here Fruiza says he's going to show Goku 50% of his power.

Fruiza, final form 50% of maximum power: 60,000,000
Goku, KaiOken 10: 30,000,000
Goku, KaiOken 20: 60,000,000

Goku, Super saiyajin: 150,000,000
Fruiza, final form 100% of maximum power: 120,000,000

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4997/daizplszc0dz9.jpg

Instead of watching the non canon anime, which where the story tellers have no idea what they're talking about. Read the japanese or the american viz.

And another thing don't use the powerlevel to prove that he's strenght, speed of chi powers have multiplied. Appearently it don't work in the same way.
As a child Goku lifted a car, approximately 1 ton. In the begining of Babidi saga Goku had problem with 40 tons, even though his "powerlevel" have at least billion folded since then.
If it was true all the Z fighters would fly many times faster than light.


NO what are YOU talking about? o-o

You said almost the exact same power levels as I did v-v I said Goku was at 15,000,000 because thats the highest that I knew he could go. And you said Frieza was at 530,000 I said 500,000 not very different.

And lifting a car and training with a cars weight is COMPLETELY different.

Goku was only struggling with 40 tons because they were on his wrists and ankles, plus he was struggling tp PUNCH with them, NOT lift them. He was also in the air wich would make it a bit harder.

Say someone could bench 200 pounds. Now that [erson goes out and buys 200 pound wrist weights, HE WOULD NOT be able to lift those because they are at the end of his arms, wrists.

edit: My bad, it was actually 150,000,000 so i was wrong on Goku's level, but that just makes my calculations even higher. And yes I know tis' not completeley right to be using power levels but thats the best way to do it. Plus it's not completely that far off. The 40 ton thing and 1 ton thing I explained up there ^

And also I wasn't talking about the power levels increasing strength and speed, I did before but not in that post. It does however increase your Ki so assumingly his Ki blasts would become stronger than before.

[A]

NO what are YOU talking about? o-o

You said almost the exact same power levels as I did v-v I said Goku was at 15,000,000 because thats the highest that I knew he could go. And you said Frieza was at 530,000 I said 500,000 not very different.
Well 15,000,000 is ten times less, its a severe error.

And lifting a car and training with a cars weight is COMPLETELY different.
Indeed, but if you can brace a billion tons (at least) then you should be able to train with 100 million ton weights.

Goku was only struggling with 40 tons because they were on his wrists and ankles, plus he was struggling tp PUNCH with them, NOT lift them. He was also in the air wich would make it a bit harder.
No, he was struggeling because Toriyama Akira was careless, he thought of a heavy weight and he thought 40 tons seemed heavy.
Toriyama is not a God, he cannot create a perfect universe based on logic.

Say someone could bench 200 pounds. Now that [erson goes out and buys 200 pound wrist weights, HE WOULD NOT be able to lift those because they are at the end of his arms, wrists.
No, but reduce the weight ten fold, and he can.
By your "logic" Goku can only lift 400 tons.

edit: My bad, it was actually 150,000,000 so i was wrong on Goku's level, but that just makes my calculations even higher. And yes I know tis' not completeley right to be using power levels but thats the best way to do it. Plus it's not completely that far off. The 40 ton thing and 1 ton thing I explained up there ^
That flaws your calculation even more.
If Goku incressed from 8,000 to 3,000,000 in one saga that's almost a half million increasse, after Cell saga the increase would be about the same.
- Think about it, this was not the end of Seru saga, it was the begining of Boo saga, Goku had trained for 7 years and could go SSJ2 and SSJ3.

375,000* 375,000 = 140,625,000,000 * 8,000 or 3,000,000 * 375,000 which equals 112,500,000,000,000 pl and that would be his base. But of course it can be less and it can be more. Around 100 trillions seems ok, and then multiply it with 3 when he goes SSJ and 9 times when he goes SSJ2.

And also I wasn't talking about the power levels increasing strength and speed, I did before but not in that post. It does however increase your Ki so assumingly his Ki blasts would become stronger than before.
No it raises the fighting spirit, a person with a higher powerlevel has more speed, more power and as you say more chi. But it's not a constant function of your powerlevel.

[master bruce]

I don't see where goku's pure strength is so relevant to this match, WTF do people keep bringing up goku's strength for, this is not a benching match, its a fight.


You keep dissmissing goku's uber huge massive power level and mutliplanet-busting capablity even when it hits you in your fucking face.

So what if it isn't pure strength goku uses, he's not a purestrength character he uses ki to become massively insanely powerful in his punches and kicks.

Its called ki assisted strength/ki assisted punching power.
In a fight pure strength no matter how much more isn't all that important.
So what if warhulk is pure strong and goku uses ki/ and insane mach speed reflexes to make his punches massively powerful.

The point is just that, that goku is still insanely powerful to uber levels.


You DBZ bashers are a real screw job.

It doesn't matter if goku's muscles make him able to destroy a mountain with his punch or if goku's insane speed.reflexes(physics) and ki assisted power makes him able to destroy a mountain with his punch. The fact still remains that he can do shit like that.



Stop talking about "goku can't lift this without ki" and "goku can't lift that without ki". So what!?!

He doesn't need freakish muscles power, thats the whole reason he is freakishly fast and freakishly ki adapt.


there is more than one way to skin a cat, and there is more than one way to be uber insanely powerful.

Hulk has found using pure strength to get there and goku has found insane speed and ki abilities to get there.



Stop goku bashing and open your eyes.

[Darklyre]

No one's arguing that Goku isn't ridiculously powerful. Everyone can agree on that.

The issue is that War Hulk's strength is so much higher that it negates most of Goku's advantages.

[Yōkai]

anyone who can kill the Juggernaut in 3 punches is just way too overpowered, even for someone like Goku.

[Vynjira]

anyone who can kill the Juggernaut in 3 punches is just way too overpowered, even for someone like Goku.Who killed Juggernaut in three punches?? O_O;

[The Sentry]

Yeh who killed Juggernaut. He cant be killed fool

[Gaelek_13]

I heard only yesterday that War Hulk handed Classic Juggernaut's ass to him and actually stopped him in motion.

That alone leads me to believe that Goku's fucked.

[bloody_ninja]

SSJ 4 Wins in the end

[Badalight]

Are you stupid? =O

SSJ4 is non cannon.

In fact all of GT is Filler, it doesn't follow the manga story line.

So we can't use that in this debate.

If we could, the fight may be a bit less curbstompy.

[Yōkai]

Yeh who killed Juggernaut. He cant be killed fool
I said he CAN. and Juggs aint immortal punk
what do you know about comics anyway? mr.¨spidey did beat the Hulk¨:lmao

[Vynjira]

I said he CAN. and Juggs aint immortal punk
what do you know about comics anyway? mr.¨spidey did beat the Hulk¨:lmaoClassic Juggs is immortal...

[Badalight]

SpiderMan beat the Hulk?

Wow then maby you guys are overestimating Hulks power o-o

Spidey is weak.

He pulled out a win.

Come on, I know it wasn't War Hulk but still...

[EvilMoogle]

SpiderMan beat the Hulk?

The only Spidey/Hulk fight I can remember that I'd classify as a win for Spidey would be the one that happened to take place next to a gamma reactor and the Hulk reverted to Banner in the middle of the fight (which wouldn't work with either War Hulk or the current Hulk just for the record).

Every other fight I can recall ends with Spidey either giving up (to an intelligent version of the Hulk) or running away.

[Yōkai]

Classic Juggs is immortal...
where is such thing stated?

extraordinary degree of resistance to injury.regen =/= immortality

[Darklyre]

Juggernaut has invulnerability, not immortality. Almost the same, but not quite.

[Vynjira]

where is such thing stated?Its stated several times that his soul is bound by the power of Cyttorak, its also shown in this scan:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Cuo-sama/mystic1.jpg
Sorry to use an older scan best I got on this comp. This should however be a perfect example of the immortality in action. With his powers siphoned enough for him to take that much damage he was still alive.extraordinary degree of resistance to injury.regen =/= immortalityThe only thing is he is actually immortal in addition to those powers. His soul cannot be ripped from his body, he is an avatar of Cyttorak.

I'll work on finding the on panel statements, tho if your still not convinced.Juggernaut has invulnerability, not immortality. Almost the same, but not quite.Its not about being the same, Juggernaut is an invulnerable, irresistible, inexhaustible force of mystical power.

[Darklyre]

Hmm...really? I thought that the immortality thing was conditional, and shouldn't be counted as a full power. Huh, the things you learn...

[Yōkai]

^Im not convinced. Juggs is never mentioned as immortal in the databooks for a reason

[Elyon]

Lets jsut go with him being able to train with 5,000,000.

Thats the best calculation we can come up with because there is no exact number.

I'd say that is pretty close.

Can Hulk breath in space?

I'm not sure of this but otherwise...

Goku is strong enough t throw hulk off the planet.

Or in other cases blast him off.

Or just teleport to a new planet and use a planet buster on it.

Goku also gets stronger each near death experience he has.

He could get hurt by Hulk and then take a senzu Bean.

He'd be stronger.

Hulk would get matter.

So essentially they both get stronger.

The argument of Hulk constantly getting tougher is now void.

So does Goku.

Dunno if this has been responded to already...

But, Goku gets stronger AFTER fights. He doesn't get stronger during fights unless it's a matter of him ascending to another level entirely. But Hulk basically does that every time his rage increases.

Near-death experiences doesn't make Goku stronger, his training and the fight itself do. It's nothing like the Hulk's, at all. The Hulk literally gets stronger every time he gets angry. Goku gets stronger after weeks of training and fighting.

Hulk would crush Goku before Goku could even punch him off the planet. That, and Hulk can do the exact same thing. One punch could send Goku flying to another planet.

[Vynjira]

^Im not convinced. Juggs is never mentioned as immortal in the databooks for a reasonBecause his powers can and have on many occasions been taken away.

By Cyttorak's own words "The power is timeless, my interest in them is not." About his avatar Juggernaut.(Could have been "my favor of them"). Cyttorak never intended for one mortal to posses the power forever. Thats all it means.

As long as he's powered by Cyttorak, he won't die. Only thing its Cyttorak's choice on how long they are powered.

[Elyon]

In regards to the Spidey vs Hulk thing, didn't Spiderman win through intellect? I mean, I never read any of the Hulk comics, but I know Hulk should be easily outsmarted. I also never read the fight, but I know Spiderman doesn't come close to Hulk's strength.

[Yōkai]

^Spidey is like a mosquito to Hulk, indeed
Because his powers can and have on many occasions been taken away.or maybe because he's not meant to be immortal:sag
By Cyttorak's own words "The power is timeless, my interest in them is not." About his avatar Juggernaut.(Could have been "my favor of them"). Cyttorak never intended for one mortal to posses the power forever. Thats all it means.

As long as he's powered by Cyttorak, he won't die. Only thing its Cyttorak's choice on how long they are powered.

In comics, when it comes to immortality ,is the same thing that with invulnerability.There are levels of invulnerability. For instance, Superman is said to be invulnerable, but he's been punched to death before. Juggs is said to be invulnerable, but if he takes a full powered punch from Galactus, it wouldn't do him any good.

Invulnerability is all fine and dandy until a more powerful guy comes along and takes you down a peg.

Juggernaut has never been completley invulnerable. Neither immortal, if someone strong enough to totally overcome the power of Cyttorak takes him on, Juggs will die.

The truly immortal/invincible beings in comics can be counted with one hand

[Yōkai]

@vyjnira

And just to back up my arguement, here's the Juggs being one-hit killed
by captain america:sag In a what if, yeah, but you get the idea.

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i389028_WhatIfXMenAgeofApocalypse2007puarDCP17.jpg

[Havoc]

What ifs don't prove anything at all.

[Yōkai]

What ifs don't prove anything at all.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5316/contributionah9.jpg

[Elyon]

What ifs don't prove anything at all.

Yes they're the basis for any and all battle threads.

[Badalight]

Dunno if this has been responded to already...

But, Goku gets stronger AFTER fights. He doesn't get stronger during fights unless it's a matter of him ascending to another level entirely. But Hulk basically does that every time his rage increases.

Near-death experiences doesn't make Goku stronger, his training and the fight itself do. It's nothing like the Hulk's, at all. The Hulk literally gets stronger every time he gets angry. Goku gets stronger after weeks of training and fighting.

Hulk would crush Goku before Goku could even punch him off the planet. That, and Hulk can do the exact same thing. One punch could send Goku flying to another planet.

You Phail.

EVERY saiyan gets stronger after Near Death Experiences.

It happend to Gohan AND Vegeta BOTH in the Frieza saga.

Vegeta made Kirllin hurt him and then made Dende heal him just to get stronger.

Gohan just got hurt form fighting and got healed by Dende and came back up to par with the other warriors.

You are wrong is you say otherwise. This is true, deal with it.

[Elyon]

Doesn't everyone who gets healed by Dende get a bit stronger?...

But, who was Gohan fighting when he was healed? I seriously don't remember. I do remember multiple times where Gohan was healed, then flew off. Or healed, then just got very angry and started blasting everything.

Though once more, that's the Saiyans getting stronger after battle.

[Suzumebachi]

Badalight, you still havent explained Farmer with Shotgun.

[Badalight]

Doesn't everyone who gets healed by Dende get a bit stronger?...

But, who was Gohan fighting when he was healed? I seriously don't remember. I do remember multiple times where Gohan was healed, then flew off. Or healed, then just got very angry and started blasting everything.

Though once more, that's the Saiyans getting stronger after battle.

Gohan and Vegeta were fighting Frieza.

Gohan got beat down pretty bad and fell down to the ground where Dende healed him.

Gohan came back and started blasting away at Frieza with Krillin and Vegeta.

Vegeta then stated that whenever a saiyan goes through a near death experience they get stronger.

He then tells Krillin to hurt him so he can be close to death and get healed by Dende, then come back stronger and beat Frieza. Krillin hurt Vegeta but Dende didn't feel like healing Vegeta because of his Evil heart.

Later Dende realized that was the only way to win so he did it and Vegeta came back claiming to be a Super saiyan and started fighting REALLY well.

And got owned and Goku came =o

[Elyon]

I forgot, the Hulk's healing and durability get stronger with his rage too, don't they? So the more strength he gets, the harder Goku will need to punch to beat him.

[bloody_ninja]

Are you stupid? =O

SSJ4 is non cannon.

In fact all of GT is Filler, it doesn't follow the manga story line.

So we can't use that in this debate.

If we could, the fight may be a bit less curbstompy.

wow u dont neg someone for an outskirts battledome saying ssj4 is not a cannon. I am sorry, but I did not know GT was a filler sheesh

[Vynjira]

Juggs is said to be invulnerable, but if he takes a full powered punch from Galactus, it wouldn't do him any good.I'm certain it would. Galactus could almost certainly kill Juggernaut but not thru a direct punch.Juggernaut has never been completley invulnerable. Neither immortal, if someone strong enough to totally overcome the power of Cyttorak takes him on, Juggs will die.Actually yea he has been.

[Badalight]

I never negged you.

And i wasn't trying to be harsh.

The Draogn Ball series end when Kid Buu dies.

GT was extra made by the animators.

And it wasn't very good either IMO.

[Suzumebachi]

Still waiting on the explaination of Farmer with Shotgun.

[Vynjira]

Still waiting on the explaination of Farmer with Shotgun.You'll get one the moment he thinks of one, I'm sure..

[bloody_ninja]

I never negged you.

And i wasn't trying to be harsh.

The Draogn Ball series end when Kid Buu dies.

GT was extra made by the animators.

And it wasn't very good either IMO.

well some motherfucker neg repped me with loooooooooooooooooooooooooool
and u were the only one that responded to that post... o well

[Havoc]

I already explained the farmer with the shotgun.

[omgbbq]

goku wins damnit...goku nukes hulk to nothingness