Kakuzu VS Tsunade

[Tmb04]

50+ yr Old Sannin/Hokage who is the GrandDaughter Of Shodaime

VS

The Man with 5 Hearts which each pocesses a different Element. Who back in the day fought Shodaime Hokage Himself.


Who would Win??

[blash]

good fight. but i would have to give this one to kakuzu. He's Iron Body would work perfect against tsunade's attacks, and kakuzu's use of the elements should be plenty to take down the weakest sannin.

[Canute87]

Tsunade can kill her opponents by touching them (tsunade was going to kill orochiamru but kabuto figured out what was what, If Kakuzu had grabbed tsunade with her tentaclkes leaving her hands free she could have send lethal chakra through kakuzu's tentacles killing him. As for the elemental usage on kakuzu's part. TSunade would have been able to punt a dent in kakuzu's iron body so his defence would have been broken. Now for the other elements tsunage can create craters or ground upheeval attacks by stomping the ground which could get kakuzu off balance when he is doind a technique.

Umm It's close but i would say Tsunade also because she can heal herself.

[Tmb04]

I have to go with Kakuza. I dont think even Tsunade is strong enough to break through steel with her punch. Also Kakuza has the ability to switch from Close to Mid To Long Range whenever he wants. If ya look at it as 5 x 1, I believe they would over power her.

[CrazyMoronX]

I'm leaning towards Kakuzu.

Tsunade would be able to break his skin defense, no question in my mind. However, that would only land her one heart. He still has his 4 most powerful hearts. The massive jutsu, tentacle raping, heart ripping, etc... would be too much.

Even if she tried to activate genesis of rebirth, I don't think she can replace her heart.

[Pimp of Pimps]

Tsunade. .

[Vance]

Kakuzu is not only about her level of strength, but he also posses 5 hearts, and his ability to switch from long to mid range. Tsunade is old, and she is losing her fighting ability.

[Uzumaki]

Kakuzu, High-Mid-Low Rang switcher, go High and Tsunade cant get close...
And Even If Tsunade Can Manage to get a Hit on Kakuzu, He Wont be Dead By far.

[Cabbage Cabrera]

Kakuzu's iron body negates Tsunade's strength. He wins.

[Haku]

Tsunade has the will of fire. plus she dosnt need to use her strength she has medic Exp. so she can heal her self and she can harm him with it.

[iander]

Doesnt matter how many hearts he has if his body is convulsing all over and cant control himself.

[Kuya]

You mean Kakuzu? Him most likely. Tsunade will put up a hell of a fight tho. This is just a bad match up for her. Because he can almost match her in speed and strength which is prett much her thing except he's got elemental masks to back him up.

[Orga777]

Doesnt matter how many hearts he has if his body is convulsing all over and cant control himself.

:huh If that can get through the Iron Skin that is. All Kakuzu has to do is send his masks out and the fight ends. Uber Elements along with Kakuzu's strength, speed, Iron Skin, and tentacles Tsunade will be brought down pretty fast.

Winner: Kakuzu

[martryn]

Kakuzu got outsmarted by Naruto. Tsunade doesn't die in battle. Tsunade loses to no one (except, I guess, Jiraiya).

[Sliver Fang]

good fight. but i would have to give this one to kakuzu. He's Iron Body would work perfect against tsunade's attacks, and kakuzu's use of the elements should be plenty to take down the weakest sannin.

When has it been stated that Tsunade is the weakest of the sannin. Don't asume so much.

And yes Tsunade will have a hard time agaisnt his element jitsus but she will prove herself not as a sannin but as a Hokage.

[Grrblt]

Tsunade doesn't die in battle.

That depends on if you kill her or not.

[Orga777]

Kakuzu got outsmarted by Naruto. Tsunade doesn't die in battle. Tsunade loses to no one (except, I guess, Jiraiya).

:huh And your point? Over confidence against someone that you think is weaker than you is one thing. He isn't going to underestimate the Hokage of the Leaf Village.

[martryn]

That depends on if you kill her or not.

Well, since you don't, I guess she doesn't.

[Grrblt]

Well, since you don't, I guess she doesn't.

And why don't you?

[Atanih88]

Tsunade can kill her opponents by touching them (tsunade was going to kill orochiamru but kabuto figured out what was what, If Kakuzu had grabbed tsunade with her tentaclkes leaving her hands free she could have send lethal chakra through kakuzu's tentacles killing him. As for the elemental usage on kakuzu's part. TSunade would have been able to punt a dent in kakuzu's iron body so his defence would have been broken. Now for the other elements tsunage can create craters or ground upheeval attacks by stomping the ground which could get kakuzu off balance when he is doind a technique.

Umm It's close but i would say Tsunade also because she can heal herself.
i second this - and as you can tell I voted for baa-chan :)

[martryn]

And why don't you?

Kill her? Damnit, Jim, I'm a physicist, not a ninja!

[vagnard]

Kakuzu wins. I doubt Tsunade could pierce Kakuzu's doton armor. Tsunade seems to be a close range fighter...he will have disadvantage against Kakuzu's elemental ninjutsu.

[blash]

When has it been stated that Tsunade is the weakest of the sannin. Don't asume so much.

And yes Tsunade will have a hard time agaisnt his element jitsus but she will prove herself not as a sannin but as a Hokage.


yes it hasnt been stated, but its just so obvious. You dont really think that Tsunade is better than Jiraiya and Oro. do you? If so then your stupid ( sorry but its true).

And by the way Jiraiya could have been the hokage as well, and the same goes for Oro. Tsunade being a hokage doesnt change the fight

[Kingnaruto]

Do you remember what Sakura done to Iron sand when she punched it, well im sure tsunade will break the iron body

[Tmb04]

Do you remember what Sakura done to Iron sand when she punched it, well im sure tsunade will break the iron body

What I remember was she sent it flying through the air, Not Putting a hole through it.

[Grrblt]

Do you remember what Sakura done to Iron sand when she punched it, well im sure tsunade will break the iron body

What I remember was she sent it flying through the air, Not Putting a whole through it.

Exactly. I have no doubt Tsunade could send Kakuzu flying with her power punch; breaking his armor is a whole other matter. I'm not sure if she can or not, but I am pretty certain she will at least find resistance. Kakuzu was pretty confident about being completely immune to physical attacks, after all.

[adil]

Well we haven't seen Tsunade's full potential. If the circumstances in this battle mean she's alone and so is Kakuzu. Then Tsunade may come out on top, but Kakuzu would give her a real hard time first. I'd actually love to see this fight, but we're probably gonna see a better tsunade vs akatsuki fight

[Mishari]

her slug's acid attack destroys kakuzu. maybe?

if not. kakuzu wins.

[Aizen]

tsunade .

[Sliver Fang]

yes it hasnt been stated, but its just so obvious. You dont really think that Tsunade is better than Jiraiya and Oro. do you? If so then your stupid ( sorry but its true).

And by the way Jiraiya could have been the hokage as well, and the same goes for Oro. Tsunade being a hokage doesnt change the fight

What if i am stupid. that doesn't change the fact that Tsunade will lose.

Tsunade being Hokage does change the fight. She is the protector of the family. if she lose then there will be no one else to protect the family. This was part of the insprition teh third hokage got. and same will applied to Tsunade as well. So i'm trying to say that she will have more will to fight for her family.

Beside i still don't think she is the weakest of the sannins. She is maybe on par with Jiriyia. I'm not sure but i certinly don't think she is the weakest of the sannins. just my opinion though.

anyways i still think Tsunade can take this but she still will struggle till the end. maybe even so close that it will be a double ok. but she will win either way.

[MasamuneX7]

Well we haven't seen Tsunade's full potential. If the circumstances in this battle mean she's alone and so is Kakuzu. Then Tsunade may come out on top, but Kakuzu would give her a real hard time first. I'd actually love to see this fight, but we're probably gonna see a better tsunade vs akatsuki fight

Tsunade is likely to die in a fight against AL. That's probably the only Akatsuki member she's going to fight. Jiraiya's fate will be similar.

[Kai]

Tsunade would squeeze out a win with Sosou Saisei.

[Dre]

tsunade would win. She would do that muscle technique where when you try and move your arm your leg moves.

[Sliver Fang]

^ yeah you tell everyone

[Sai]

I would say Kakuzu would win.

[twilight]

I think tsunade got this like come on shes not a fucking sannin for no fucking reason that actually means something if u people dont know.

[Grrblt]

I think tsunade got this like come on shes not a fucking sannin for no fucking reason that actually means something if u people dont know.

Nobody said Tsunade was a sannin for no fucking reason. But nobody said that reason was being able to kick Kakuzu's ass either. Oro is a sannin too, and he's lost against Itachi, Sasuke and Naruto. And Jiraiya says that there are stronger people than Oro in Akatsuki. So much for being a sannin for a fucking reason, huh.

[MasamuneX7]

I think tsunade got this like come on shes not a fucking sannin for no fucking reason that actually means something if u people dont know.

I think kakuzu got this like come on hes not a fucking akatsuki for no fucking reason that actually means something if u people dont know.

Wait... Orochimaru was one of the Sannin, and he used to be in Akatsuki. There are people stronger than him in Akatsuki. Sannin means a whole lot now doesn't it. Does Tsunade being the Hokage make her stronger than Jiraiya, who isn't? Is Itachi weak because he's not a Hokage and was never a candidate for Hokage?

Setting titles aside, Kakuzu fought Tsunade's grandfather more than half a century ago, survived, and has only gotten stronger since then. He is also twice as old as Tsunade without the handicaps of old age and has twice the amount of fighting experience.

[Grimmjowsensei]

I think kakuzu would win. Tsunade may out smart him, but i am not sure if that is enough for her to win since we haven't seen tsunade fight someone strong. And i doubt she can. She can't heal herself unless you pull a soft villian act and let her do it. It took some time for her to use that fully recover technique, in naruto universe where people move faster than you can see , the cast time of the technique is pretty slow. I don't know how far kakuzu's armor can hold those punches but i know tsunade won't be able to hold much vs kakuzu's attacks.

[Bee Bee Troopz]

u people have to remeber that he takes the hearts off whoever he is fighting.

More importantly i dont think tsunade can replace her heart, well atleast during battle.smile-big

[Bee Bee Troopz]

I think tsunade got this like come on shes not a fucking sannin for no fucking reason that actually means something if u people dont know.


do we need to sware?

[Atlantic☆Star]

It would be a good fight but I think Kakuzu would win.

[DmonkeyD]

kakuzu seriously isnt sannin level-not on any accounts.

[amaterasujutsu]

tsunade would win. She would do that muscle technique where when you try and move your arm your leg moves.

You must forget that Kakuzu isn't human, if you know what I mean. He can fight using his tentacles. Also, the four heads that are in his bodies can be separated and do their own things. So that whatever name it calls move is not going to work on Kakuzu.

And how would Tsunade do against Doton Armor. That armor is built to withstand physical attacks of any kind. The only reason Chidori is able to pierce it because of elemental advantage and the fact that Chidori very nature is to pierce anything. As far as we know, Tsunade doesn't have any such technique that could pierce his armor.

And don't tell me that she can smash him with her super punch. He is just too much for her to handle.

[Gary]

kakuza wins to many hearts =/

[Nikushimi]

Kakuzu wins rather easily.

Tsunade is a short-range fighter, a bad choice for Kakuzu's excellent long-range techniques. In fact, Kakuzu is a rarity: He's equal at just about ALL ranges. Even in close range, Tsunade's specialty, she can't do a damn thing. Kurogane Karada makes Kakuzu quite impervious to her lasaa beemz, and his tendrils feel her up so intimately that that "Creator" fellow is probably fapping to this post as he reads it, imagining the thin black threads caressing her supple-

Yeah, Kakuzu wins, easily.

[Truepotential]

Kakuzu rapes.

His shunshin is even too fast for Kakashi.

Tsunade gets speedblitzed over and over again.

[Ike]

Kakuzu would win. His iron defense would negate Tsunade's physical attacks. He's also a very good long range fighter, whereas Tsunade seems to be a close range fighter. Kakuzu's masks would be incredibly hard to deal with. Also, Tsunade's ability to change the nerves controlling your body parts wouldn't work on Kakuzu since he's made up of a black goo that probably doesn't exhibit the same qualities as that of human nerves.

[Shiranui]

Tsunade's Genesis Rebirth plays a large role in this fight, along with her Ranshinsho (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/164/15/). If she can possibly get in range of Kakazu, the paralysis strike could be used to disrupt his bodily functions. Though I'm curious if the iron skin would repel this attack, or if only defending against physically harming assaults such as a kunai, etc.

It also depends on the distance at which they start. If it is close range, then Kakazu may win quite early. However, longer gives Tsunade time to use the terrain to her advantage and the ability to distract Kakazu. Overall, though, I see the Ranshinsho combined with Genesis Rebirth having a great effect against him, and so she gets my vote.

[Shoddragon]

You must forget that Kakuzu isn't human, if you know what I mean. He can fight using his tentacles. Also, the four heads that are in his bodies can be separated and do their own things. So that whatever name it calls move is not going to work on Kakuzu.

And how would Tsunade do against Doton Armor. That armor is built to withstand physical attacks of any kind. The only reason Chidori is able to pierce it because of elemental advantage and the fact that Chidori very nature is to pierce anything. As far as we know, Tsunade doesn't have any such technique that could pierce his armor.

And don't tell me that she can smash him with her super punch. He is just too much for her to handle.

its raikiri. raikrii is basically a much much more powerful version of chidori. chidori might not have been able to pierce.

[PisOgPapir]

This is a rather interesting fight, and we need to analyze the fighting styles of the combatants carefully, Kakuzu starts off with his doton armor on, and no masks released, because if he releases the masks at start, he potentially faces their destruction. Tsunade is going to be able to get in close, and aided with the help of her inhuman strenght and some chakra scalpels it seems very feasible to me that she is able to get a punch or that lightning thing i can't remember what is called. From there on Kakuzu is, if he manages to even recover from the first blow, is going to retreat a bit, and pull out his masks, which is where the battle gets tough, but with use of Souzu Saisei(?) Tsunade is able to tank enough hits to either smash up Kakuzu, which is unlikely if he gets all tentacly. But she should be able to smash up some masks, drastically limiting his firepower, and if she then whips out some chakra scalpels to do a little needle surgery she might be able to pull it off.

This is indeed a tough battle, but Tsunade definitely has the abillity to win this.

[Ironhide]

Kakuzu

Tsunade has shown nothing to even compete with him

[Shoddragon]

the lightning thing? you act as tho ALL raiton attacks> doton skin. all tsunade did was turn a LITTLE bit of her chakra into raiton chakra and forced it into kabuto's nervous system. that little bit is going to do NOTHING to kakuzu. and I doubt she knows his doton skin is actually doton.

[BAD BD]

Kakuza :LOS wins.

[Bitch]

Tsunade would win with difficulty. Doton armor will be destroyed by her Raiton attack if her punches don't work.

Genesis Rebirth would be a last resort when Kakuzu ends up using his S rank jutsu.

[TheOftViewer]

The doton armor won't be destroyed by Tsunade's attacks. At most those charges will be able to bypass the armor. She would need to destroy the doton heart to get rid of the armor.

I'm not too sure about how effective her attack on the nervous system would be, anyways. Kakuzu seems to be mainly a mass of threads, so electric charges aimed at where a normal human's nervous system would be probably wouldn't affect Kakuzu's body structure.

I think she'll have a hell of a time trying to fight Kakuzu in hth with his iron skin, since that provides great protection against physical attacks. Add that to the fact that he's really fast, considerably faster than Kakashi, she's going to have a tough time hurting him.

That said, he's probably going to have a tough time hurting her, too. She's strong enough to tear through any threads Kakuzu will try to entangle her with, so he'll need to use the masks. She could tank Atsugai and Zukokku, though I'm not so sure about the combined attack and Gian. I'd think they'd wear her down enough to give Kakuzu an opening for when Tsunade uses genesis rebirth.

[Shoddragon]

tank? are you joking? it took a double raikir just to STOP a SINGLE blast. she isn't taking that. it will tear her to shreds.

[TheOftViewer]

That's why I said she could tank (or avoid, I suppose) Atsugai or Zukkoku, but I wasn't sure how well she could take the combined attack or Raiton: Gian.

[Shoddragon]

That's why I said she could tank (or avoid, I suppose) Atsugai or Zukkoku, but I wasn't sure how well she could take the combined attack or Raiton: Gian.

when you tank something you take it head on. tsunade is NOT tanking ANY of the s rank jutsu head on or she will explode into bloody pieces.

[Suu]

Tsunade is a short-range fighter, a bad choice for Kakuzu's excellent long-range techniques.
I'd have to agree. Kakuzu is quite easily able to distance himself from enemies, and fire off those high-powered elemental attacks that would probably even stand a chance of taking out Katsuyu.

If he does go into 'elemental masks' mode to begin with, the only way Tsunade will be able to get close to him is by activating Sozou Saisei, and running through his elemental jutsu - but even then, if she reaches him, I doubt much more will happen than a good ol' tentacle rape.

In fact, Kakuzu is a rarity: He's equal at just about ALL ranges. Even in close range, Tsunade's specialty, she can't do a damn thing. Kurogane Karada makes Kakuzu quite impervious to her lasaa beemz,
This is where I disagree a bit.

Kakuzu + using tentacles to fight Tsunade + using elemental masks to fight Tsunade = he'd almost certainly win.

Kakuzu + Doton-enhanced defense + using tentacles to fight Tsunade = he'd probably get the better of her.

Kakuzu + Doton-enhanced defense + using Doton-enhanced strength to fight Tsunade = he's probably get a nasty 'shock'. Excuse the pun.

To put it simply - how do you guys think Kakuzu, with his awesome Doton armour and all, will deal with being hit by the Raiton: Ranshinshou?

[Creator]

I'd have to agree. Kakuzu is quite easily able to distance himself from enemies, and fire off those high-powered elemental attacks that would probably even stand a chance of taking out Katsuyu.

If he does go into 'elemental masks' mode to begin with, the only way Tsunade will be able to get close to him is by activating Sozou Saisei, and running through his elemental jutsu - but even then, if she reaches him, I doubt much more will happen than a good ol' tentacle rape.

I disagree, i think once Tsunade gets close enough, Kakuzu in effect has lost. She can basically mess up his nerve system and his pretty much out. The only reason Kabuto managed to work with the nerve muck up was because he himself was a medic in essence and was quite smart and worked out the thing. I dont think Kakuzu has that knowledge, and even if he did, it would take him much longer to break out of it then Kabuto did. Plus remember, Kabuto's only way out was to use Tsunade's fear of blood against her, Kakuzu doesnt know that, and also Tsunade isnt scared of blood anymore.

So all in all. Tsunade wins. :amuse

[Empirejoao]

It would be close based on the limited showing Tsunade has had; I am 100% confident that when Tsunade has a real fight in which she is pushed, she will be able to rather easily defeat someone of Kakuzu's level.

Her Smashy Smashy may or may not be able to break the Doton armor (it never had to stand up to something so strong), but her Raiton attack surely will.


Do you guys seriously think that Kakuzu's long range elemental and thread attacks will be effective?? Even Kakashi could dodge them (mostly): Tsunade specializes in evasiveness.

[Creator]

Do you guys seriously think that Kakuzu's long range elemental and thread attacks will be effective?? Even Kakashi could dodge them (mostly): Tsunade specializes in evasiveness.

My point exactly. People highly underestimate this aspect of Tsunade's fighting style. :amuse

[Suu]

I disagree, i think once Tsunade gets close enough, Kakuzu in effect has lost. She can basically mess up his nerve system and his pretty much out.
...
So all in all. Tsunade wins. :amuse
There are several problems with your argument.

I find it difficult to comprehend how one can decisively conclude "Tsunade wins" when there is such a big 'if' in their argument. And in this case, your big 'if' is "if Tsunade gets close to Kakuzu". Will she?

Even with her Sozou Saisei allowing her to effectively 'ignore' Kakuzu's elemental attacks, it won't change the fact that:
Kakuzu's Fuuton-type mask appears to be capable of pushing his enemies away at the same time.
Kakuzu's tentacles can pretty much stop Tsunade in her tracks. I have my doubts that even 'super strength' can break through them - only something with high cutting power (Chidori) has ever been shown to break them. If his long-ranged tentacles bind Tsunade, there's little chance she'll reach him.

For argument's sake, let's assume Tsunade does manage to somehow get close to Kakuzu, and hits him with a Ranshinshou while he has his Doton armour active. What's going to happen then? How can Tsunade injure him?
Smashy smashy? Nope, won't work. Summoning Katsuyu on top of Kakuzu? Nope, won't work either. Picking up something huge and chucking it on top of Kakuzu? Nope.
In fact, while Tsunade tries out all these different alternatives, she's pretty much buying Kakuzu ample time to figure out the jutsu (and unlike Hidan, he's actually quite smart), while she is effectively running out of time due to the nature of Sozou Saisei.

The only way I can think of Tsunade ever hurting Kakuzu is through Katsuyu spitting acid on him. Katsuyu's acid has proven itself to be strong enough to pierce even rock - which, fittingly, is what Kakuzu becomes when he activates his Doton armour. However, even then, Tsunade is not without problems.

Firstly, Kakuzu being incapacitated via Ranshinshou has no repurcussions on his other four (or three?) 'hearts'. They are seemingly separate entities from Kakuzu altogether, being able to move and attack on their own will, and even detach themselves from his body. In all likelihood, due to Doton's weakness against Raitons, only his earth heart will be affected. Even if Kakuzu is lying on the floor, completely immobile, his other elemental masks can run amok, attacking Tsunade.

To put it simply, even if Tsunade does figure out that using Katsuyu's acid is the only way to injure Kakuzu, there will be four elemental masked monsters running around shooting some extremely high-powered and large-scale elemental attacks at her and Katsuyu. And even I have my doubts that Katsuyu could ever possibly stand up to something like this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/13/) or even this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/335/02/) more than a few times. Those masked elementals pose quite a serious threat to both Katsuyu and Tsunade (although if Sozou Saisei is still active at the time, Tsunade won't really be affected).

Another possibility is that Kakuzu may even be capable of 'swapping in' one of his hearts whose nervous system wasn't affected by Ranshinshou, and 'swapping out' his incapacitated Doton monster. That would effectively give him control of his body once again. Some may argue that he is not capable of doing this, but I am on the fence about it.

Plus remember, Kabuto's only way out was to use Tsunade's fear of blood against her, Kakuzu doesnt know that, and also Tsunade isnt scared of blood anymore.

You see, the problem here is that Kakuzu and Kabuto are different ninja? You cannot make such a direct comparison between the two, and then try and present it as an argument.

To put it simply - Kabuto is a mid to high-level Jounin (at the most) who has a completely different fighting style altogether to Kakuzu, who is probably 'Kage-level' (as with most of Akatsuki).
Kakuzu has super defense and strength, not bad speed, powerful tentacles that move and extend at his will, and 4-5 sentient elemental masks that are able to spit out high-powered large-AoE elemental attacks. Kabuto is fast, can self-heal, and uses chakra scalpels and kunai to attack. See the difference?

Kabuto is a much more limited, and I daresay weaker, fighter than Kakuzu, and thus his reliance upon Tsunade former-phobia of blood was only natural. Kakuzu most likely won't need to rely on any 'weakness' of Tsunade's to win (not that she has any anymore).

The only reason Kabuto managed to work with the nerve muck up was because he himself was a medic in essence and was quite smart and worked out the thing. I dont think Kakuzu has that knowledge, and even if he did, it would take him much longer to break out of it then Kabuto did.
Actually, Kabuto being a medic probably had nothing to do with the speed in which he 'figured out' Tsunade's Ranshinshou jutsu. If that were the case, why would Tsunade - in full knowledge that Kabuto was a medical ninja - bother trying to use such a jutsu on him? The reason why he was able to work it out was due to pure genius - his intellect.

There's absolutely no proof at all that Kakuzu isn't smart. Genius is a pretty strong word to use here, but he's certainly no idiot. In fact, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary. In comparison to Hidan, he's always been the cool-headed one, and was able to analyse Shikamaru's tactic very quickly, and counter it very effectively. There's more, but I can't remember.

It would be close based on the limited showing Tsunade has had; I am 100% confident that when Tsunade has a real fight in which she is pushed, she will be able to rather easily defeat someone of Kakuzu's level.
Can't argue with that ;)

Her Smashy Smashy may or may not be able to break the Doton armor (it never had to stand up to something so strong), but her Raiton attack surely will.
I have my doubts. Her Raiton attack is designed to incapacitate the opponent, not pierce it. If anything, it will simply heighten the effect of the jutsu - ie. make it last for longer, or affect him to a point where his nerves are screwed up altogether (instead of merely making the connections switch).

Do you guys seriously think that Kakuzu's long range elemental and thread attacks will be effective?? Even Kakashi could dodge them (mostly): Tsunade specializes in evasiveness.
The problem with this is that:
Kakashi's evasive skills are arguably higher than Tsunade's, based upon what we've seen so far. Kage Bunshin feint, kawarimi spamming and impressive speed/sneaky-sneaky are amongst some of his trademark skills.
Even Kakashi was forced to block two of Kakuzu's attacks, one to save Shika/Chou (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/16/), the other to save himself (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/), and even then he was overpowered both times.
The biggest problem Kakashi had was dodging all of Kakuzu's attacks at the same time. Thus, this occurred (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/13/).

[Empirejoao]

Can't argue with that ;)


I have my doubts. Her Raiton attack is designed to incapacitate the opponent, not pierce it. If anything, it will simply heighten the effect of the jutsu - ie. make it last for longer, or affect him to a point where his nerves are screwed up altogether (instead of merely making the connections switch).

Even if the Raiton attack doesn't pierce the Iron Skin and destroy the Doton heart, it will mess up his nervous system. Kabuto is (arguably) the smartest character in the manga. Kakuzu, while undoubtedly smart, would be pretty much screwed if he got hit with that. He just hasn't displayed the insane intelligence needed to do what Kabuto did.

The problem with this is that:
Kakashi's evasive skills are arguably higher than Tsunade's, based upon what we've seen so far. Kage Bunshin feint, kawarimi spamming and impressive speed/sneaky-sneaky are amongst some of his trademark skills.
Even Kakashi was forced to block two of Kakuzu's attacks, one to save Shika/Chou (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/16/), the other to save himself (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/), and even then he was overpowered both times.
The biggest problem Kakashi had was dodging all of Kakuzu's attacks at the same time. Thus, this occurred (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/13/).
Tsunade is of a higher level than Kakashi, and, as a medical ninja (the STRONGEST medical ninja), focuses on evasiveness. I think its pretty far fetched to assume that Kakashi can dodge better than Tsunade




Reponses are in bold. And again, this is based on the limited showing Tsunade has had. When she goes all out, perhaps against Danzou or Kabuto, I'm sure that many people will have to reevaluate her strength.

[Ragormha]

Honestly I'm shocked Tsunade has such a high support rating here, she's no match for Kakuzu.

First of all, Kakuzu's body is hardly ordinary with all those threads and whatnot (which likely won't be effected y Tsunade should she land a hit) but really with all the elemental strength Kakuzu has at his disposal how can Tsunade get close?

Secondly, if she does get close how can she stop her heart being ripped out? Tsunade may be strong but her body is not nearly super human, note also she won't likely bring out Genesis Rebirth from the get-go.

She's strong, sure, but Kakuzu is one character she doesn't have much of an advantage over in this area (held off the nibi, smashed doors off their hinges with ease) and speed-wise she is at best on his level, but likely lower.

Also when has she demonstrated good evasion? Kabuto...who was self-admittedly shonky at taijutsu landed hits on her.

This may change later on, but as it is she'll get a good raping with elemental blasts and threads.

[Suu]

Even if the Raiton attack doesn't pierce the Iron Skin and destroy the Doton heart, it will mess up his nervous system. Kabuto is (arguably) the smartest character in the manga. Kakuzu, while undoubtedly smart, would be pretty much screwed if he got hit with that. He just hasn't displayed the insane intelligence needed to do what Kabuto did.
That's...pretty much what I just said.

Tsunade is of a higher level than Kakashi, and, as a medical ninja (the STRONGEST medical ninja), focuses on evasiveness. I think its pretty far fetched to assume that Kakashi can dodge better than Tsunade
There are several flaws in this sort of argument. Arguing on the basis of rank (or 'level') is fine when the disparity between ranks is very large (eg. like a Chuunin vs a 'Kage-level' ninja), or when arguing about ninja we know very little - if not nothing - about (eg. post-timeskip Konohamaru vs Yondaime).

However, when the two ninjas in question have:
A) shown us a sufficient amount of fighting.
B) are very close in rank
the only real way to determine who would win in a theoretical battle is to through an analysis of every point, rather than relying upon a simple comparison of rank.

Although I agree that Tsunade has yet to show us everything she's got, we do have a sufficient amount of knowledge about her fighting style to argue with, and the same can be said of Kakashi (although with Kakashi it's likely we know just about everything there is to know about his fighting style).

Rank? Very similar. Need I remind you both Jiraiya and Tsunade herself acknowledged Kakashi of being capable - in terms of strength/skill as a ninja - to take upon the position of Hokage right then and there were Tsunade to die? In my eyes, the moment they made this acknowledgement, Kakashi was placed up there at 'Kage level'. And even if he were a 'high Jounin', the difference between the two 'levels' can sometimes be much smaller than some might like to think.

To say the least, rank can sometimes mean very little, and it is ultimately based upon whether a ninja's fighting style is effective or ineffective against another ninja. Other conditions may affect the battle to varying degrees, but let's stick to this for now.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let's compare their evasionary skill.

You state that Tsunade is the strongest medic in the world. It's stated that she's the best medic, but for all we know, that could simply mean that she's the best at healing. And even if it does state she's the 'strongest', 'strength' is in itself a very broad term, and can encompass many different aspects, such as knowledge, speed, power, etc. She may not necessarily have to be the best in all of those sub-areas to be the 'strongest'. In other words, it does not necessarily mean she is the best at dodging. The best maths student in a school may not necessarily be the best at probability. See where I'm going with this?

Medics are trained to dodge, that is true, but since when does that mean they are better at dodging than every other type of ninja? Just because Sakura is a medical ninja, does it mean her evasive skills/speed are higher than Sasuke's? Even though Tsunade may have been trained to evade as her first priority, judging from what we've seen through her fight with Kabuto, factors such as old age and rustiness have probably worn down her ability to evade quite considerably.

Another point to consider is that Kakashi with a Sharingan couldn't dodge all of Kakuzu's attacks, which is pretty frightening to consider.
Perhaps you're right, perhaps Tsunade's evasion skills are much higher than other non-medical ninjas of her level - but even so, throw a Sharingan in there, and you've got a pretty uneven match. After all, the 3-tomoe Sharingan has got some neat predictive abilities.

I don't know about you, but the idea of a Sharingan-user with impressive speed, high intellect (thus, foresight), and a history of incorporating quick kawarimi and Kage Bunshin feints into his attacks/evasionary tactics being better at evading than Tsunade is not so far-fetched at all.

Reponses are in bold. And again, this is based on the limited showing Tsunade has had. When she goes all out, perhaps against Danzou or Kabuto, I'm sure that many people will have to reevaluate her strength.
Of course. I'm almost counting on the fact that she'll have more to show us in her 'final' (or next) battle; I've said it so many times, I'd probably place myself in self-enforced exile from these forums due to shame if it didn't actually happen.

As much as I love thinking about how awesome Tsunade is going to be the next time we see her fight, in the Battledome, I'm afraid we're strictly limited to what we've seen of her so far.

[Empirejoao]

If you agree that Kakuzu can't recover from Tsunade's nerve attack, why do you believe that Kakuzu can win, even with the limited showing Tsunade has shown? That's why I stated..apparently the same thing you did.


Tsunade's evasion is obviously going to be much better than Sakura's, who is already very evasive. It's safe to assume that Tsunade's dodging is above Kakashi.

[Ragormha]

If you agree that Kakuzu can't recover from Tsunade's nerve attack, why do you believe that Kakuzu can win, even with the limited showing Tsunade has shown? That's why I stated..apparently the same thing you did
Ignore me?
As I said, we don't know how much of Kakuzu's bdy relies on a nervous system, stuff that needs threads obviously doesn't.
Also Tsunade has to be able to land that blow as well, given the scale of the elemental jutsu against her its illogical to assume she could get close.

Tsunade's evasion is obviously going to be much better than Sakura's, who is already very evasive. It's safe to assume that Tsunade's dodging is above Kakashi.
The hell are you talking about?
Kakashi is a hardened vet just like Tsunade, only he didn't take a few decades off, he has the Sharingan with its three-tomoe which grants advanced prediction far above what any medic-nin could use unassisted.
Look, Kimimaro could read people excellently, Lee couldn't even land a hit...but that doesn't mean he could dodge as well as Kakashi could have.
Despite what Tsunade may say, she hasn't demonstrated good evasion skills, she likely has more stuff up her sleeves...but could it help with Kakuzu? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know yet so any assumptions they could change things are silly, based on the facts she's getting raped.

[Kai]

If you agree that Kakuzu can't recover from Tsunade's nerve attack,
Why is this important when the elemental masks move independently from Kakuzu?

Tsunade's evasion is obviously going to be much better than Sakura's, who is already very evasive. It's safe to assume that Tsunade's dodging is above Kakashi.
Kakashi has multiple means of evading an attack; Tsunade has been shown to have multiple problems landing one.

[Vergil]

one finger is all she needs :P

[Ryuk]

Idk why but I see Tsunade winning this.

[Creator]

There are several problems with your argument.

I find it difficult to comprehend how one can decisively conclude "Tsunade wins" when there is such a big 'if' in their argument. And in this case, your big 'if' is "if Tsunade gets close to Kakuzu". Will she?

Even with her Sozou Saisei allowing her to effectively 'ignore' Kakuzu's elemental attacks, it won't change the fact that:
Kakuzu's Fuuton-type mask appears to be capable of pushing his enemies away at the same time.
Kakuzu's tentacles can pretty much stop Tsunade in her tracks. I have my doubts that even 'super strength' can break through them - only something with high cutting power (Chidori) has ever been shown to break them. If his long-ranged tentacles bind Tsunade, there's little chance she'll reach him.

For argument's sake, let's assume Tsunade does manage to somehow get close to Kakuzu, and hits him with a Ranshinshou while he has his Doton armour active. What's going to happen then? How can Tsunade injure him?
Smashy smashy? Nope, won't work. Summoning Katsuyu on top of Kakuzu? Nope, won't work either. Picking up something huge and chucking it on top of Kakuzu? Nope.
In fact, while Tsunade tries out all these different alternatives, she's pretty much buying Kakuzu ample time to figure out the jutsu (and unlike Hidan, he's actually quite smart), while she is effectively running out of time due to the nature of Sozou Saisei.

The only way I can think of Tsunade ever hurting Kakuzu is through Katsuyu spitting acid on him. Katsuyu's acid has proven itself to be strong enough to pierce even rock - which, fittingly, is what Kakuzu becomes when he activates his Doton armour. However, even then, Tsunade is not without problems.

Firstly, Kakuzu being incapacitated via Ranshinshou has no repurcussions on his other four (or three?) 'hearts'. They are seemingly separate entities from Kakuzu altogether, being able to move and attack on their own will, and even detach themselves from his body. In all likelihood, due to Doton's weakness against Raitons, only his earth heart will be affected. Even if Kakuzu is lying on the floor, completely immobile, his other elemental masks can run amok, attacking Tsunade.

To put it simply, even if Tsunade does figure out that using Katsuyu's acid is the only way to injure Kakuzu, there will be four elemental masked monsters running around shooting some extremely high-powered and large-scale elemental attacks at her and Katsuyu. And even I have my doubts that Katsuyu could ever possibly stand up to something like this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/13/) or even this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/335/02/) more than a few times. Those masked elementals pose quite a serious threat to both Katsuyu and Tsunade (although if Sozou Saisei is still active at the time, Tsunade won't really be affected).

Another possibility is that Kakuzu may even be capable of 'swapping in' one of his hearts whose nervous system wasn't affected by Ranshinshou, and 'swapping out' his incapacitated Doton monster. That would effectively give him control of his body once again. Some may argue that he is not capable of doing this, but I am on the fence about it.

Lets start with the whole 'if' argument. Sadly with Tsunade 'if' is all we have. We only saw her fight once, and therefore we have to assume every aspect of her fighting style.

Your correct in saying how she will struggle against Kakazu's high defence capability, but what is to say that Tsunade has a technique which can break his defence. After all, its all possible. You had expect someone of her level to know a few more tricks then we have seen.

Her slug's acid, would be very useful, your correct, but also remember, her slug can break up into millions of smaller slugs. Taking the whole numbers game into account. 5 hearts VS a million smaller slugs whose acids are strong enough to break through rock, and Tsunade, the odds are, Kakazu wouldnt be able to cope with the large number.

As for time, by the time Kakazu manages to deal with all her slugs and come to Tsunade, do you really think she wouldnt have come up with a strategy to count him?

Thats why i said she would win. Buts i have to say, in order to balance my argument, that it will be A) a hard fight and B) it all depends on certain factors.

You see, the problem here is that Kakuzu and Kabuto are different ninja? You cannot make such a direct comparison between the two, and then try and present it as an argument.

To put it simply - Kabuto is a mid to high-level Jounin (at the most) who has a completely different fighting style altogether to Kakuzu, who is probably 'Kage-level' (as with most of Akatsuki).
Kakuzu has super defense and strength, not bad speed, powerful tentacles that move and extend at his will, and 4-5 sentient elemental masks that are able to spit out high-powered large-AoE elemental attacks. Kabuto is fast, can self-heal, and uses chakra scalpels and kunai to attack. See the difference?

Kabuto is a much more limited, and I daresay weaker, fighter than Kakuzu, and thus his reliance upon Tsunade former-phobia of blood was only natural. Kakuzu most likely won't need to rely on any 'weakness' of Tsunade's to win (not that she has any anymore).

That is true, i was merely using that to show one of Tsunade's possible weaknesses, which she doesnt have anymore.

Actually, Kabuto being a medic probably had nothing to do with the speed in which he 'figured out' Tsunade's Ranshinshou jutsu. If that were the case, why would Tsunade - in full knowledge that Kabuto was a medical ninja - bother trying to use such a jutsu on him? The reason why he was able to work it out was due to pure genius - his intellect.

There's absolutely no proof at all that Kakuzu isn't smart. Genius is a pretty strong word to use here, but he's certainly no idiot. In fact, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary. In comparison to Hidan, he's always been the cool-headed one, and was able to analyse Shikamaru's tactic very quickly, and counter it very effectively. There's more, but I can't remember.

I have my reserves on whether Tsunade knew Kabuto was a medic. I think she found out in the middle of the battle.

Kakazu is smart, but i question how smart he is and how fast he would be able to work out what Tsunade did to his nerve system.

Going back to one of your previous point about swapping his hearts, i highly doubt Kakazu could do that. I think the reason he has 4 seperate hearts apart from his own is to make sure that his own heart isnt hit, rather those other hearts are. Like a last minute self defence tactic.

Bold bits.

And excuse me for call him Kakazu. :ano

[TWF]

Kakuzu is more impressive to me then Tsunade. He has the clear advantage in long and mid-range combat, he is defiently faster and better at Taijutsu then Kakashi, so I'd put him quite a bit above Tsunade.

He's strong enough to take blows from a building buster like the Nibi Jinchurriki when she released her form, which is even more impressive then Tsunade's strength. Over all, I give this to Kakuzu about 70% of the time.

[TheOftViewer]

Ok, I need to comment on the argument over Rashinsho.

Firstly, I find the notion that it might destroy the doton armor or doton heart to be utterly ridiculous. The armor and heart doesn't explode at contact with any form of electricity. Tsunade's "Raiton" attack doesn't destroy anything.

Secondly, I seriously doubt it's effect on Kakuzu. Look here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/337/12/). See how his body is just a mass of threads? Think he has a normal human's nervous system? Tsunade's attack is aimed for a normal person's nervous system. It's not going to affect Kakuzu, unless you want to argue that any electric attack would do that, and if you try that I can bring up tons of examples that disprove that.

[2sexa4u]

i dont see tsunade winning this.kakuzu wins.tusnade doesnt even has the chance to go near kakuzu.tsunade cant even defeat a sick and armless orochimaru.kakuzu will win.

[Zero Requiem]

Kakuzu would win with ease IMO.

[sethblodia]

Kakuzu very easily.

[Shoddragon]

I think all you guys are forgetting just how much chakra it takes to use a boss summon. there is no way tsunade is going to summon katsuya out of nowhere. and also, you guys are SEVERELY underestimating the doton skin and the raiton tsunade used on kabuto. look at what it took too disable it before.

it took a full powered raikiri ( basically an extremely high a rank or low s rank jutsu) THROUGH THE HEART to disable it, and even then as high a rank as raikiri is, its raiton affinity is what actually made it pierce. do you knwo what kakashi is trying to say? if he used ANYTHING ELSE, even chidori which is a rank or two downwards, it might just not have pierced.

you also have to consider sasuke's battle against deidara. you have basically clay bombs and such vs chidori. chidori is far upwards in rank than clay attacks. however the sheer hardness of kakuzu's armor allowed him to not only simply take a raikiri to the heart with no other collateral damage, but in a battle beforehand he stopped the nibi biju's punch EASILY. now if that was the his doton armor ( most likely) in effect, then it is FAR too strong for tsunade to do a thing, because I simply do not see her having more power in her punches than a nearly 100% released 2 tailed biju.

also consider how powerful bijus really are. Gamabunta nearly BROKE BOTH OF HIS ARMS trying to slash off ONE of shukaku's arms. I am sure gamabunta charging and hitting with his sword hits a lot harder than tsunade's attacks. needless to say had shukaku actually tried to smack the katana away he would have succeeded. yet the nibi biju, most likely far stronger physically than shukaku, had its punch entirely stopped by kakuzu alone. I just do not see tsunade's punches doing anything. her raiton attack will do NOTHING, it will not bypass the armor as nothing could before raikiri. I am sure an equally sharp fuuton could also slash through the armor ( being the sharpest type of chakra of course), btu thats another story. her nervous system attack, evne if it DID bypass the armor, would do nothing.

KAKUZU IS A GIANT MASS OF THREADS UNDER A SINGLE CONSCIOUS. Therefore, he has no nervous system. its just chakra, threads, and a brain. Also no evidence suggest she would immediately try to use this attack unless kakuzu actually turned his back to her which is unlikely seeing as he is faster.

also consider her genesis rebirth works against her, as the faster she receives damage, the more genesis rebirth works, therefore even if she DOES activate it at the beginning at the match ( doubtful seeing as its her trump card basically, not going to try it till she definitely needs it), kakuzu will still destroy her. your not scaling the attacks correctly. two raikiris, concentrated raiton chakra, stopped a SINGLE blast. since her body lacks that kind of concentrated energy she will be destroyed. unless she has a kind of ultimate defense she is fucked.

and remember guys, no need to flame. this thread was ( hopefully ) not made to bash any of the characters. and creator, try not to let your tsunade fanboyism get in the way here. thats the last thing we need with the edo tensei tards in the kakuzu vs orochimaru thread >_<.

[Roland]

I'd say Kakazu. Not only does he have speed and strength on par with that of Tsunade's, but he has the usage of 5 elemental hearts. Throwing in the tentacles along with those 5 elemental hearts throws the battle into Kakazu's favor. I do believe that Tsunade's strength surpasses Kakazu and that her brute force will be able to break through his Iron Skin, but I don't believe she will be able to get that close to Kakazu before she is taken out. Genisis Rebirth may prove to be troublesome, but I don't believe it will be anything that Kakazu is uncapable of handling. If Tsunade resorts to her boss summon, Kakazu can focus some of his hearts to handle that while the others, including Kakazu himself, take care of Tsunade.

[Han Solo]

I just want to bring up a point here, a point people seem to miss. Kakuzu's Elemental attacks are desinged to be evaded. It's really that simple. They are a distraction and little more. But the thing is they are such an insanley powerful load of attacks, you cannot simply shrug them off. You have to dodge, much like Kakashi. And look what happened to him - he got completley owned twice, both times in under three panels. By a Kakuzu with three hearts.

So yes Tsunade's - supposed if I must remind you - awesome dodging abilities may let her avoid the Elemental attacks. But that's gonna take a hell of a lot of concentration. And all Kakuzu has to do is to force her to jump - not an amazingly hard feat you must agree. Once in the air, like Kakashi, it's all over.

This is, however, just a point, and not how I think it would actually pan out.

[Suu]

If you agree that Kakuzu can't recover from Tsunade's nerve attack, why do you believe that Kakuzu can win, even with the limited showing Tsunade has shown? That's why I stated..apparently the same thing you did.
Re-read my argument. I know people have already quoted this and responded to it, but to put it simply:
The masks can still move independantly from Kakuzu.
It may be possibly for Kakuzu to 'swap in' an unaffected mask to recover.
The effect may permanently paralyse him, we can only speculate. On the other hand, it may merely screw up his nervous system for an extended period of time, which is something that - given the right amount of time - he can 'figure out'.
With his body seemingly made out of black gooey stuff, who knows how much of his nervous system will actually get affected? It's not a normal body, after all.

Tsunade's evasion is obviously going to be much better than Sakura's, who is already very evasive. It's safe to assume that Tsunade's dodging is above Kakashi.
Wait, wait, so you just said:
>Tsunade's evasion is higher than Sakura's.
>Therefore Tsunade's evasion is higher than Kakashi's.

I don't see the link. At all.

Lets start with the whole 'if' argument. Sadly with Tsunade 'if' is all we have. We only saw her fight once, and therefore we have to assume every aspect of her fighting style.
You're taking 'what ifs' out of context here.

Here's an example of what I mean. Just say I was in a 'Sakura vs Sasuke' battledome thread, and I said "If Sakura can hit Sasuke, Sakura wins. Therefore Sakura wins." Get it?

When I mean 'if' it's not in relation to the fact that the one/two battles we've seen Tsunade in she was greatly hampered by several disadvantages, nor is it in relation to the fact that we've probably yet to see her go 'all out' yet. It means the basis of one of your arguments is flawed by a high degree of implausibility. That is all.

Your correct in saying how she will struggle against Kakazu's high defence capability, but what is to say that Tsunade has a technique which can break his defence. After all, its all possible. You had expect someone of her level to know a few more tricks then we have seen.
I'd hate to sound harsh, but you're in the Battledome here. We're restricted to arguing purely from what we've seen them do so far.

If we begin arguing using pure speculation and conjecture, how does that leave any room for healthy debate/discussion? "Tsunade pwns <ninja x> using some ultimate jutsu we haven't seen her use yet". It pretty much forces the argument into a dead end - which is why people just don't do it here in the Battledome.

Her slug's acid, would be very useful, your correct, but also remember, her slug can break up into millions of smaller slugs. Taking the whole numbers game into account. 5 hearts VS a million smaller slugs whose acids are strong enough to break through rock, and Tsunade, the odds are, Kakazu wouldnt be able to cope with the large number.
I see your point here, and it's not a bad one.

However, the nature of Kakuzu's elemental attacks (or rather, his masked monsters' elemental attacks) are such that an increment in numbers would not have such a great impact on the effect. In other words, two out of the three elemental attacks Kakuzu has shown us to be capable of doing are massive area-of-effect jutsu, which are perfectly suited for taking out great numbers.

Even if Katsuyu were to stand there spitting acid at Kakuzu (or Kakuzu's masked monsters), or if Katsuyu were to split into thousands of mini-slugs and they were to all spit acid at Kakuzu/monsters, it probably wouldn't change the circumstances. The masked monsters would simply deflect the acid - in fact, probably overpower the acid, tbh - with their high-powered, area-of-effect elemental jutsu.

With 3-4 masks defending a paralysed Kakuzu, Tsunade and Katsuyu will be forced to be on the defensive - and unfortuantely, the only way she can really do so is by:
soaking the damage with Sozou Saisei. This is not a perfect strategy, as Sozou Saisei itself has its limits, either through how much damage it allows her to regenerate, or how long it lasts, or both.
using Katsuyu as a 'shield'. This is limited too, as it's probably likely Katsuyu would be forced to 'unsummon' after taking 3-4 hits from some of those elemental attacks.

Even if Kakuzu stays paralysed for a long, long time - due to, perhaps, a heightened effect of Ranshinshou - with Katsuyu gone, Tsunade's only possible way of killing him would effectively disappear. And then Sozou Saisei will expire. And it's all downhill from there.

As for time, by the time Kakazu manages to deal with all her slugs and come to Tsunade, do you really think she wouldnt have come up with a strategy to count him?
Okay, like what? Once again, you're in the Battledome, you can't just say "Tsunade will think of a strategy". Come up with the strategy yourself, and I'll rebutt it. :)

Thats why i said she would win. Buts i have to say, in order to balance my argument, that it will be A) a hard fight and B) it all depends on certain factors.
The way I see it, Kakuzu has a much higher chance of winning than she does. She does have a slight chance of winning, but that would count entirely on Kakuzu being stupid during battle - which he generally isn't.

I just want to bring up a point here, a point people seem to miss. Kakuzu's Elemental attacks are desinged to be evaded. It's really that simple. They are a distraction and little more. But the thing is they are such an insanley powerful load of attacks, you cannot simply shrug them off. You have to dodge, much like Kakashi. And look what happened to him - he got completley owned twice, both times in under three panels. By a Kakuzu with three hearts.
I sort of see what you're getting at, although it doesn't explain why even Kakashi had to block it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/), or why Shika/Chou were unable to dodge it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/16/).

[Han Solo]

I sort of see what you're getting at, although it doesn't explain why even Kakashi had to block it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/), or why Shika/Chou were unable to dodge it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/16/).

Well I probably went a little overboard when I said that they are desinged to be dogded. If you don't have the evaise skills to be get out of the way in the first place your dead - fair enough. But if you do - which you signify that your at least fairly skilled - then you'll be dealt with a little more personally. Fodder is killed instantly, higher level nins will fails due to concentraiting too much on dodging. Combined with his insane defence, which would stop almost any counter attack, and you must realise that it's an almost haxxed style of fighting. Hell it is haxxed.

[muishot]

Re-read my argument. I know people have already quoted this and responded to it, but to put it simply:
The masks can still move independantly from Kakuzu.
It may be possibly for Kakuzu to 'swap in' an unaffected mask to recover.
The effect may permanently paralyse him, we can only speculate. On the other hand, it may merely screw up his nervous system for an extended period of time, which is something that - given the right amount of time - he can 'figure out'.
With his body seemingly made out of black gooey stuff, who knows how much of his nervous system will actually get affected? It's not a normal body, after all.


Wait, wait, so you just said:
>Tsunade's evasion is higher than Sakura's.
>Therefore Tsunade's evasion is higher than Kakashi's.

I don't see the link. At all.


You're taking 'what ifs' out of context here.

Here's an example of what I mean. Just say I was in a 'Sakura vs Sasuke' battledome thread, and I said "If Sakura can hit Sasuke, Sakura wins. Therefore Sakura wins." Get it?

When I mean 'if' it's not in relation to then fact that the one/two battles we've seen Tsunade in she was greatly hampered by several disadvantages, nor is it in relation to the fact that we've probably yet to see her go 'all out' yet. It means the basis of one of your arguments is flawed by a high degree of implausibility. That is all.


I'd hate to sound harsh, but you're in the Battledome here. We're restricted to arguing purely from what we've seen them do so far.

If we begin arguing using pure speculation and conjecture, how does that leave any room for healthy debate/discussion? "Tsunade pwns <ninja x> using some ultimate jutsu we haven't seen her use yet". It pretty much forces the argument into a dead end - which is why people just don't do it here in the Battledome.


I see your point here, and it's not a bad one.

However, the nature of Kakuzu's elemental attacks (or rather, his masked monsters' elemental attacks) are such that an increment in numbers would not have such a great impact on the effect. In other words, two out of the three elemental attacks Kakuzu has shown us to be capable of doing are massive area-of-effect jutsu, which are perfectly suited for taking out great numbers.

Even if Katsuyu were to stand there spitting acid at Kakuzu (or Kakuzu's masked monsters), or if Katsuyu were to split into thousands of mini-slugs and they were to all spit acid at Kakuzu/monsters, it probably wouldn't change the circumstances. The masked monsters would simply deflect the acid - in fact, probably overpower the acid, tbh - with their high-powered, area-of-effect elemental jutsu.

With 3-4 masks defending a paralysed Kakuzu, Tsunade and Katsuyu will be forced to be on the defensive - and unfortuantely, the only way she can really do so is by:
soaking the damage with Sozou Saisei. This is not a perfect strategy, as Sozou Saisei itself has its limits, either through how much damage it allows her to regenerate, or how long it lasts, or both.
using Katsuyu as a 'shield'. This is limited too, as it's probably likely Katsuyu would be forced to 'unsummon' after taking 3-4 hits from some of those elemental attacks.

Even if Kakuzu stays paralysed for a long, long time - due to, perhaps, a heightened effect of Ranshinshou - with Katsuyu gone, Tsunade's only possible way of killing him would effectively disappear. And then Sozou Saisei will expire. And it's all downhill from there.


Okay, like what? Once again, you're in the Battledome, you can't just say "Tsunade will think of a strategy". Come up with the strategy yourself, and I'll rebutt it. :)


The way I see it, Kakuzu has a much higher chance of winning than she does. She does have a slight chance of winning, but that would count entirely on Kakuzu being stupid during battle - which he generally isn't.


I sort of see what you're getting at, although it doesn't explain why even Kakashi had to block it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/), or why Shika/Chou were unable to dodge it (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/16/).

I never thought I would see the day when I see You pick someone other than Tsunade. You have finally see the light, huh? I guess you have finally understand my dilemma when we debate against each other, huh? This is the battledome, we go with what we know and see, not ranks or titles and especially Speculation.

I have read most if not all of your posts in this thread and I agree with them all. You did a great job making point for point arguement and counter-argument.

[mednin]

Tsunade wins.

[Suu]

Well I probably went a little overboard when I said that they are desinged to be dogded. If you don't have the evaise skills to be get out of the way in the first place your dead - fair enough. But if you do - which you signify that your at least fairly skilled - then you'll be dealt with a little more personally. Fodder is killed instantly, higher level nins will fails due to concentraiting too much on dodging. Combined with his insane defence, which would stop almost any counter attack, and you must realise that it's an almost haxxed style of fighting. Hell it is haxxed.
Indeed :amuse

I never thought I would see the day when I see You pick someone other than Tsunade. You have finally see the light, huh? I guess you have finally understand my dilemma when we debate against each other, huh? This is the battledome, we go with what we know and see, not ranks or titles and especially Speculation.

I have read most if not all of your posts in this thread and I agree with them all. You did a great job making point for point arguement and counter-argument.
Well, I suppose most people don't know that Kakuzu is also one of my favourite characters :P

I haven't exactly changed my stance on Tsunade at all - I've always viewed her this way. Every argument I've made for/against her in this thread is consistent with all arguments I've made for/against her in past threads. I suppose the main difference between me and other Tsunade-tards is that I tend to take a more balanced approach to these Battledome battles (or at least try).

[Truepotential]

If you agree that Kakuzu can't recover from Tsunade's nerve attack, why do you believe that Kakuzu can win, even with the limited showing Tsunade has shown? That's why I stated..apparently the same thing you did.


Tsunade's evasion is obviously going to be much better than Sakura's, who is already very evasive. It's safe to assume that Tsunade's dodging is above Kakashi.



What?

Sakura sucks at evasion, she would've been hit by Hiruko's first attack if it wasn't for Chiyo.

Kakashi is faster than Tsunade,and had Sharingan. Plus, that didn't help him to react or counter Kakuzu's speed.

[shamanking]

kakuzu would win

[Cabbage Cabrera]

Kakuzu wins here. Tsunade pales in comparison to Kakuzu.

[Itachi's Apprentice 3]

Kakuzu would pwn Tsunade immediately :zaru.

[-Pain-]

Kakuzu wins, its common sense.

[Lezard Valeth]

Tsunade wins this easily.

Tsunade: Ninpou Souzou Saisei (Creation Rebirth)
*Tsunade is invulerable*
Tsunade: Ninpou Ranshinshou (Chaotic Mental Collision)
*Kakuzu is unable to move*

Tsunade then uses Kakuzu as a punch bag until nothing is left of him.

[master bruce]

she can literally punch through his iron skin and tear his heart from his chest with her bare hands.




grandma stomps hard.

[Psycho Master]

The Tsunade that we will see in her next fight will probably be able to stomp Kakuzu, but for now that is speculation.

The blood-phobic, rusty Tsunade we saw in the Kabuto/Sannin fight would probably lose though.