nidaime vs kisame

[Citan]

both are excellent with water jutsu which one will win

[TreeofSephri]

I say Kisame win due to the fact his has superstrength and a chakra amount rivaling Kyuubi Naruto. Nidaime would just be overpowered and outlasted.

[Gamabunta]

Nidaime. Akatsuki members can be killed by timeskip naruto. An to be fair, Nidaime > timeskip naruto.

[TreeofSephri]

How does Nidaime win? Kisame can match every suiton jutsu he has and come back for more. Not to mention he has Samehade. Not to mention that Naruto beat a severly weakened akatsuki member with a S rank jutsu.

[Gamabunta]

wow, not every water jutsu!

exactly who was doing these water jutsus?

Nidaime an Shodaime were Sandiames mentors. We can accept they did something right.

[TreeofSephri]

I am not questioning his skill but he is going against a suiton master. One who probably knows more suiton jutsus than him. Not to mention can eat his chakra and has a chakra capacity far above him. He would essentailly be wasting his attacks if he resorted to ninjutsu. Taijutsu is out of the question because of super strength. Genjutsu might work but I forget whether it was him or Shodai that used the Darkness genjutsu.

[durtycheese]

ill say kisame since he is cooler.

[Gamabunta]

I am not questioning his skill but he is going against a suiton master. One who probably knows more suiton jutsus than him. Not to mention can eat his chakra and has a chakra capacity far above him. He would essentailly be wasting his attacks if he resorted to ninjutsu. Taijutsu is out of the question because of super strength. Genjutsu might work but I forget whether it was him or Shodai that used the Darkness genjutsu.

Kisame didnt help to install the power of what is the most powerful ninja nation. Nidaime was so powerful he didnt need any water to use extreme suiton jutsu's. An unless your forgetting, nidaime used the lightning sword raijin.

Since he taught a pupil that became "the proffessor", who was without question 1 of the strongest characters in the entire anime. We should take it as granted that his taijutsu & ninjutsu skills were extraordinary.

The point i will concede on is the chakra possibility. Kisame would most likely have more chakra.

[kidjutsu]

I am not questioning his skill but he is going against a suiton master. One who probably knows more suiton jutsus than him. Not to mention can eat his chakra and has a chakra capacity far above him. He would essentailly be wasting his attacks if he resorted to ninjutsu. Taijutsu is out of the question because of super strength. Genjutsu might work but I forget whether it was him or Shodai that used the Darkness genjutsu.

In the manga it is nidaime who performs the genjutsu.
People u are forgetting that both of these guys are considered "suiton masters.'
I personally feel their water jutsu's would essentially cancel out. That is y I think this match would be determined by kisame's uber strength+samehada vs. nidaime's genjutsu +rajin. This would be a really close battle, but I think NIdaime would win.

[TreeofSephri]

Kisame didnt help to install the power of what is the most powerful ninja nation. Nidaime was so powerful he didnt need any water to use extreme suiton jutsu's. An unless your forgetting, nidaime used the lightning sword raijin.


Since he taught a pupil that became "the proffessor", who was without question 1 of the strongest characters in the entire anime. We should take it as granted that his taijutsu & ninjutsu skills were extraordinary.



The point i will concede on is the chakra possibility. Kisame would most likely have more chakra.

Kakashi did not need a water source to perform suijinheki against Kakuzu so what is your point. Nidaime would be foolish if he did not create a water source since he would be wasting a great deal of chakra. Raijin is a filler weapon which has no place in the battledome.
What good would being able to make a nation powerful do in a one on one fight against a chakra beast that can eat chakra.

You cannot base a argument solely on someones achievements. I admit it can be helpful in determining the winner but only when used in conjunction with a thorough analysis of each contenders abilities. The analysis of each contenders abilities dictates that Kisame would win.

[blash]

Kisame wins.Because he's incredibly strong, can supress chakra and has a lot of his own. 30 % clone of kisame can push Gai almost to his limit,and he's and expert at water jutsu.

[Shik@maru]

Nidaime for sure

[TreeofSephri]

The reason people are saying Nidaime wins is because he is a hokage and that its.

[Panic Attack]

Some seem to forget Nidaime does not need only suiton to win. His taijutsu was the best of all the Hokages and he doesn't need chakra to put the beat down on fishman.

[Gamabunta]

You cannot base a argument solely on someones achievements. I admit it can be helpful in determining the winner but only when used in conjunction with a thorough analysis of each contenders abilities. The analysis of each contenders abilities dictates that Kisame would win.

so by that logic, i can say konohamaru is stronger than sandaime?

[mmzrmx]

Shodai did the darkness technique in the manga, Nidaime did it in the anime. We really haven't seen enough of either but right now Kisame seems superior in what they have shown.

[TreeofSephri]

so by that logic, i can say konohamaru is stronger than sandaime?

Notice I said solely. I acknowledge that achievements play a part ;however, I also say that you have to look at the skills and abilities of each contender. Seeing as how Sandaime is hokage meaning he is skilled in taijutsu,genjutsu and ninjutsu, then he obviously is stronger than Konohamaru. Where exactly did it state that Nidaime was the best in taijutsu. Not to mention the fact that Kisame has superstrength and would have to have admirable taijutsu skill to be in the Seven Swordsmen. The last thing I am doing is scoffing at Nidaime's achievements but they really had nothing to do with his battle prowess. Its not like his fighting ability created the ninja school. It might have played a part in its protection but that its. Kisame is a beast he overwhelmed a a group of pure taijutsu users one of which being a Elite Jounin. Don't let the TITLE not rank but TITLE of hokage fool you guys. Nidaime is a elite jounin who would be beaten by Kisame.

[Gamabunta]

i cannot believe you would call someone who was regarded as 1 of the strongest ninja's in konoha's existance be labeled as an elite jounin. seriously.... wtf?

[blash]

Some seem to forget Nidaime does not need only suiton to win. His taijutsu was the best of all the Hokages and he doesn't need chakra to put the beat down on fishman.

Where did you hear that Nidaime was a great taijutsu fighter?
And it wouldnt matter any how because Kisame is super strong and has amazing speed himself. Nidaime can't handle everything Kisame is.
Large amounts of chakra, water jutsu's that are just as good as Nidaimes and ability to absorb chakra, speed and power. all on Kisame's side.

What does Nidaime have that Kisame can't handle?

[TreeofSephri]

i cannot believe you would call someone who was regarded as 1 of the strongest ninja's in konoha's existance be labeled as an elite jounin. seriously.... wtf?

Because its true. Hokage is a title not a rank. Where exactly do you think hokage come from. They are the strongest in the elite jounin rank. Nidaime is a elite jounin. If Jiraiya was back in Konoha, he would be a elite jounin.

[Feral]

Kisame is stronger. He's got tons more stamina, and is very powerful in taijutsu.

Nidaime might win in speed, but if Kisame can get it to be a water jutsu spam fight (assuming Nidaime doesn't know about Kisame's chakra reserves), he'll drain Nidaime too much for him to win with speed. Once they're at the same speed (tired Nidaime), Kisame can overpower him in multiple ways, not to mention if Nidaime gets in close he can't block or be blocked by Samehada without being even more worn and helping Kisame recover.

[blash]

Kisame is stronger. He's got tons more stamina, and is very powerful in taijutsu.

Nidaime might win in speed, but if Kisame can get it to be a water jutsu spam fight (assuming Nidaime doesn't know about Kisame's chakra reserves), he'll drain Nidaime too much for him to win with speed. Once they're at the same speed (tired Nidaime), Kisame can overpower him in multiple ways, not to mention if Nidaime gets in close he can't block or be blocked by Samehada without being even more worn and helping Kisame recover.

True. and even then your statment is wrong because I'm sure Kisame is faster than Nidaime as well. So yes another point given that says Kisame wins

[Gamabunta]

you again....

i can basically come to the right conclusion by going with the opposite to what you say.

[blash]

you again....

i can basically come to the right conclusion by going with the opposite to what you say.

ok. so your trying to start something again.

well it matters not, because in this debate Kisame wins

[Gamabunta]

sure he does. keep telling yourself that.

have a nice day.

[TreeofSephri]

Guys, you need to relax focus on the topic of discussion.

[blash]

Well i am, don't know about Gamabunta.

But anyways like i was saying before, Kisame has too much for Nidaime to handle on his own, and just because he was an hokage doesnt mean he can just beat one of the better Akastuki memebers like that

[Katalyze]

Because he is one of the remaining does not mean he is one of the better, i would give this to Kisame due the advantage of samehameda

[Mibu Clan]

Kisame didnt help to install the power of what is the most powerful ninja nation. Nidaime was so powerful he didnt need any water to use extreme suiton jutsu's. An unless your forgetting, nidaime used the lightning sword raijin.

Since he taught a pupil that became "the proffessor", who was without question 1 of the strongest characters in the entire anime. We should take it as granted that his taijutsu & ninjutsu skills were extraordinary.

The point i will concede on is the chakra possibility. Kisame would most likely have more chakra.

Since this is the Manga battledoom, Nidaime doesnt have any known Genjutsu... In the Manga Shodai used the Genjutsu.

The Raijin sword is FILLER, and was Shodai's not Nidaimes.

Finally, Kakashi can use water Jutsus without a water source (Which seems to be an idea Kishi retracted from)

Also if needed Kisame can simply create a lake if needed.

ImO Kisame takes this because not only is his speed and Taijutsu superior to GAI's, which in turn would put him on a similar level between Nidaime and Kisame... But then there's the Samehada which would fuck Nidaime because of its abilitys.

Yeah, Kisame takes this.

[Shinji]

Suiton jutsus cancel out, I presume that Kisames speed and taijutsu are greater then Nidame. And also the simple fact Kisame has Samehada, and that insane amount of chakra I would give it to him

[blash]

agreed. kisame's suiton may not be better than nidaime's but everything else that he has is

[Mangekyo Bankai]

Kisame takes this, I'm not sure if the "gills" he has are real, but if they are then he can't drown... so that means Nidaime is SOL. He has the chakra, the samehada, and he is up against a suiton user. Haha, that old saying about trying to drown a shark definately applies here.

[Paper]

I'd say Kisame wins this, but it will probably be a pretty close fight. Nidaime isn't just Hokage for his water jutsus, right (ehhh, maybe so but... :P)?

Still, Kisame has much more chakra, Samehada, super strength, and is definitely one of the higher ranking Akatsuki. I mean, he gave Team Gai a hella of a hard time with just a 30% chakra clone.

And I see Nidaime as one a the 'weaker' Hokages.

[Chee]

Although Nidaime is a hokage, Kisame is hella lot stronger.

Nidaime probably has a few tricks up his sleeves, I mean he wasn't hokage for nothing, right?

But Kisame has a lot more chakra, and his samehada, and he has water jutsu as well.

[killfox]

Well im not sure about this one, Itachi told Kisame not to fight againts Kakashi because hed lose, but guy and kakashi are about even, but then again, a 30 % chakra clone left Guy havng to unlock 6 gates to beat him.

So wouldnt that mean Kakashi > Kiasame > Guy?


Anyway back on topic Im not sure if Nidaime would be able to beat Kisame because of all the things brought up prior to me posting this. But then again, the only time we saw Nidaime fight was when Orochimaru summoned him, and he couldnt die , the only way for him to die was to get his soul removed and since Kisame cant do that I guess it would depend on which one he fights because even if Kisame can beat the shit out of Nidaime even he has limited chakra.

So Id say ressurected Naidaime > Kisame

and

Kisame > Regular Nidaime.

[mmzrmx]

Itachi never said Kisame would lose to kakashi. Every translation i've seen in the manga says that if he fought 1 enemy it would be no problem, but he would be fighting many and that getting injured isn't what they came here for. Maybe a translator can clear that up but basically every thing i've seen in the manga seems to state Kisame could handle Kakashi/Kurenai/Asuma but would be injured in the process.

[Dog Rapist]

If I remember right, Nidaime was said to have the best combat ability of all the Hokages.
And the Raijin was Nidaime's, not Shodai's.
I however think Kisame would take this because he would outlast pretty much everybody in this manga apart from Naruto (even that's debatable), including the Nidaime Hokage.

[Spudly nin of krabcheese]

Nidaime would win. Both use water techniques, but the Nidaime was a Hokage.

[blash]

Nidaime would win. Both use water techniques, but the Nidaime was a Hokage.

So you think that since he was a Hokage that he wins just like that?
that has to be the stupid reason ever given.

If your saying this because of pure skill then Kisame could have easily been the hokage if he was a konoha ninja at that time.

Seriously though, Kisame outmatches Nidaime in ever other aspect other than the suiton jutsu's

[Gamabunta]

So you think that since he was a Hokage that he wins just like that?
that has to be the stupid reason ever given.

dumbest reason*

[blash]

dumbest reason*


thanx. :)

But yes again, just because someone holds the title of hokage doesnt mean anything when it really comes down to it all

[Gamabunta]

That is true. However ignoring the fact that Nidaime helped to train "the proffessor" who was regarded as the "god of shinobi" proves that he was increadibly strong.

[blash]

That is true. However ignoring the fact that Nidaime helped to train "the proffessor" who was regarded as the "god of shinobi" proves that he was increadibly strong.

I guess so. But again im not saying that Nidaime is weak, I just believe that Kisame is an over-all better fighter, and would win this battle in the end.

[K I S K E]

It is said that Nidaime has superior fighting techniques among the kages. So, I will go with him.

[TreeofSephri]

Nidaime is not the reason Sandaime became the professor. Sandaime became the professor on his own. Nidaime trained him in the basic like Sandaime did with the Sannin.

[ArtsaBang]

Kisame takes this. Although a Hokage, Nidaime, doesn't have the stability and stamina to take out Kisame, who has rediculous stamina and Strength, and chakra.

[K I S K E]

I really wish Kishimoto would release the stats for everyone already. It would really put things like this to rest. I really think that Nidaime could beat Kisame, but the closest we ever seen him fight was when he fought Sandaime, and even then Oro was controlling him.

[TWF]

Because its true. Hokage is a title not a rank. Where exactly do you think hokage come from. They are the strongest in the elite jounin rank. Nidaime is a elite jounin. If Jiraiya was back in Konoha, he would be a elite jounin.

A Kage is a rank, not a title. Hokage simply represents the fact that Nidaime was the Kage of the Fire Country's Hidden Leaf Village. Kage > any Jounin, elite or otherwise.

I'd like to say Nidaime as he is the man responsible for training the strongest Hokage in the Hidden Leaf's history, Sandaime, God of Shinobi. Kisame however is just as skilled with Suitons, has inhuman strength and a legendary blade that can absorb one's chakra.

However, Nidaime isn't a former Hokage for nothing. I'm sure he could figure a way to defeat Kisame. His combat abilties were said to cause the citizens of Konoha to become frightened when his appearenced was shown, stated by the Databook. Its still a pretty tough fight regardless.

[Bresakar]

Nidaime > Kisame. We didn't see much of Nidaime's skills due to Shodai and Oro but the Databook states he was a Suiton expert like no other( most likely on peer with Kisame or better) and had the best taijutsu in Konoha. he was very fast and strong too.

[Pein]

nidaime would roast that fish'

[blash]

Kisame wins. and hokage is a title not a rank, god.

[TWF]

Kisame wins. and hokage is a title not a rank, god.

I already explained this. A Kage is rank, Ho is representive of Fire Country, just as is Mizu, Kaze, Rai, ect...A kage is rank, a Kage > Jounin.

[Gamabunta]

^^ he is right.

Kage is a rank achieved by the strongest ninja in the village. I still think Nidaime would win, but i would say Kisame is near Kage level.

[Black Leg Sanji]

Nidaime is a elite jounin

Lol a hokage a elite jounin? Dumbest thing i heard. Kakashi is a example of a elite jounin.

Bye your logic the 1st and 3rd hokage would be on kakashis lvl.

The name Hokage is both a title and a rank.

If u are the strongest ninja in your village u are for sure way over elitejouninlvl.

[.Kakuzu.]

OMG LOOOL is this a joke nidaime would turn kisame into tuna. Then feed him to akamaru. Seriously please stop saying to yourselvs that kisame can even stand a chance.

[xxNidaimexx]

NIDAIME FTW

[Dread_Manda]

Gamabunta, training someone who is very strong does not gaurantee your own strength. Nindaime might have been a good teacher but Sarutobi learned at least 80% of his ninjutsu on his own, since Nindaime specializes only in water jutsu and sarutobi does not.Nindaime might have taught him the basics but he did not teach him that much. It has been clearly proven that senseis usually don't have that much to do with the success and strength of the ninja. For example, Sarutobi was Oro's sensei but do you think that any of Oro's snake jutsus and kinjutsus were taught by Sarutobi?Of course not. Senseis are there to guide young Shinobi and teach them the basics, it is only in certain cases, like if a teacher teaches a student a specific jutsu that it is important, but most strong shinobi like Tsunade,Jiraiya,Oro,Kakuzu,Itachi, Yondaime,and many more either invented there most powerful jutsu or mastered previously created justus on there own(do you think any one helped Itachi master MS and Tsuku, Amaterasu etc).

[_Chiyo_]

Nidaime would rape the SHIT OUT OF KISAME LOL.

Don't make me laugh.....

S Rank Genjutsu, amazing Taijutsu, MASTER OF WATER CONTROL. (Wtf, Nidaime is MORE TALENTED THEN KISAME AT WATER, DON'T EVEN TRY TO COMPARE)

AND ON TOP OF THAT A LEGENDARY LIGHTNING SWORD>SAMEHAMEDA.

GG Kisame, time to wind up in TUNA_IN_A_CAN.

^_"

This is what Uni breaks do to someone :(

[Schneizel]

Nidaime would rape the SHIT OUT OF KISAME LOL.

Don't make me laugh.....

S Rank Genjutsu, amazing Taijutsu, MASTER OF WATER CONTROL. (Wtf, Nidaime is MORE TALENTED THEN KISAME AT WATER, DON'T EVEN TRY TO COMPARE)

AND ON TOP OF THAT A LEGENDARY LIGHTNING SWORD>SAMEHAMEDA.

GG Kisame, time to wind up in TUNA_IN_A_CAN.

^_"

This is what Uni breaks do to someone :(


well at the end of the day you do realize its two men having a water fight right lol .nidaime is strong but due to the fact the legendary lighting sword is destroyed no thanks to any yellow spiky haired kid kisame would pwn nidaime regardless of the fact they both can use water splash jutsu

[TWF]

Attention @Rain...the Lightning Blade is filler, Nidaime had no such weapon in the manga. The advantage that Kisame holds over Nidaime are signifigant in a course of a battle between the two of these Suiton users.

Kisame = An inhuman level of strength, chakra capacities and stamina that rivals even Naruto, the Kyuubi's Jinchurriki and a chakra-stealing blade. While I am not saying Nidaime is weak, he was praised as one of the two greatest ninjas of his era, in a fight against Kisame with Suiton jutsus, he will lose.

[~Redchaos325~]

Nidaime without a doubt.

[TreeofSephri]

It boggles the mind how a battledome thread such as this is still being posted in. People here tend to the think that the word Hokage means instawin, well it doesn't. Lets take a look at our competitors. Everything Nidaime can do Kisame can do better and many more times due to his insane chakra amount. He is from Kirigakure a village that specializes in suiton jutsu. He has super strength and a sword that gorges itself of on chakra.